Slashdot Mirror
Sony Has Lost the PS3 Hacking War
YokimaSun writes "Sony may have dealt a major blow to the PSjailbreak sellers, but the release last week of PSGroove, an open source version of the hack, has now opened the floodgates of ports to mobile phones such as the Nokia N900 and Palm Pre. The final kick in the teeth is that a port of the exploit has been released by Waninkoko of Wii custom firmware fame for the Dingoo Handheld, which is a homebrew console that is very popular amongst emulation fans. It makes you smile that you can use one homebrew console to hack another to get homebrew on that console. Awesome."
pudge notes that you can apparently do the same with a TI-84 Plus graphing calculator (YouTube video).
The only thing Waninkoko is famous for is not thinking before releasing things. He put out a USB .iso loader, for example, that made the pirating possible on a large scale and caused Nintendo to step up patching the Team Twiizers hacks. Don't paint him as a god! He didn't even make any "Custom Firmware", only a few patches to the wii's system menu.
Maybe this battle was a loss, but as long as Song can force firmware updates, the war is far from over.
There's aslo an iOS version being made that'll run from a jailbroken iPhone.
The hack exploits a bug in the USB code on the PS3. A firmware update will render every single one those hack versions useless.
That's nowhere near a victory of any kind.
You're making a whole lot of assumptions. Following the news of this exploit, there's been no evidence of reaction from Sony beyond the lawyer attacks on distributors. It's true the commercial product is designed for backups (which may be used for piracy, but aren't necessarily), but it does allow adding other code - including homebrew. There simply isn't any around yet. I've been looking into the code injected to see if I can figure out a way to replace it with a Linux bootloader, and so far, this looks doable (but far from easy).
So, 1) this is not *just* used for pirating. 2) that is not all it allows. 3) you're the first I've seen spouting the rumour of people being banned from PSN for this. 4) Sony went right ahead and "ruined" the console months ago.
Sony have taken a surprisingly long time to react on the firmware side of things - they were quicker than this to kill Other OS when they weren't even threatened and knew the attack would have no positive effect.
I have been effectively banned for much less reason, however - insisting on keeping functionality I bought the machine for. SCE started the attack on me back in April, and I'm trying to regain what they've unrightfully removed.
If SCE had any interest in goodwill, they could release an update that reenables Other OS. Contrary to some spurious claims, the function required no extra work on their part - they only made changes to it to prevent Linux from getting "too good" at graphics, which is frankly laughable. It also didn't need removal to fit newer features, as it only existed on models with larger flash in the first place. If Other OS continued working as it should, I'd have no reason to spend so much effort on these exploits.
Unshockingly enough, Sony crushed a commercial seller of a PS3 mod device like a bug. Even if the law weren't probably unfavorable to the sellers, Sony probably could have just tied them up in injunctions forever anyway. Shocking.
Equally unsurprisingly, halting the distribution of some OSS software is going about as well as the fight against DVD Jon's little toy did. It's totally unwinnable, and Sony hasn't shown many clear signs of even trying. Shocking.
However, it isn't clear how much this matters. This isn't CSS, where the system was set in stone, millions of un-patchable, non-internet-connected hardware units were already in the wild, and team DRM pretty much just had to suck it up. Those were the good old days.
Sony controls the Playstation Network, and can enforce minimum software versions for access, or punitively lock out units. Even for offline users, individual game disks can mandate, and include, upgrades to a higher version. Sony has, certainly, lost the game against anyone content to just pick up an old PS3 fat on ebay and enjoy a pirated copy of every PS3 game to date, all for ~$200. You'll have to stay offline, and avoid games with mandatory upgrades; but not a bad deal on the whole, I can certainly see a fair few takers.
However, unless this USB hack is seriously powerful, exploiting some basically unblockable fundamental flaw in the PS3's design, all PS3s that ship more than a few weeks from now, are updated(manually or automatically) to the next firmware revision, or wish to play newer games or use newer peripherals, or play online, are back in Sony's camp. And, unlike a DVD or Blu-ray disk, where the plaintext copy, once created, is eminently playable on all sorts of 3rd party devices, general purpose computers, and whatnot, PS3 games are pretty much only playable on PS3s, pending substantial advances in computing power that will allow emulation. This isn't "hack once, run anywhere." Each individual PS3 is controlled separately, and the success of the hacking device depends on how many hackable PS3s remain in the wild, a variable over which Sony has substantial control...
And unfortunately for humanity, 500,000,000 other users won't care.
Sorry. Sony already ruined their own expensive console by removing marketed features after the fact.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
It has been years since I owned a console (Turbografx 16), after reading about the power of the Cell, I wanted to get a PS3. Not just for games but for Linux! However it turned out one couldn't full harness the power of the PS3 with Linux. So, I didn't get one. Thru the years, I'd check and see if any breakthrus were made or if Sony changed their stance. Well, with the release of the Slim models, the stance changed all right.
Since I own a N900 (Great hardware, great OS, great community! Nokia however is frustrating.) and seeing the release of PSFreedom was interesting to say the least. However at the moment all one can do is backup one's games. While it will be interesting to watch what happens in the homebrew scene, where does that leave those like myself that would want to do something legitimate with the PS3?
In my case, for years I've wanted to port KnoppMyth (now LinHES) to the PS3. Now, it seems that things maybe falling in place that would allow that. However thanks to corporate decisions and the law (DMCA), I probably won't be able to do so. Talk about crippling innovation.
When the source is open, the possibilities are endless.
Those who have used them have already been banned from PSN and multiplayer games. What a great way to ruin your expensive console.
Not everybody's idea of an enjoyable gaming experience involves trading insults with hormonal 15 year-olds, nor does $300 meet everyone's definition of "expensive." Jailbreaking is appropriate for anyone who either doesn't care about online features, can afford two consoles, or both. I suspect that's a not-insignificant portion of current and potential owners.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Sony won because they managed to delay for nearly 4 years the break in the PS3 security, They are not losing money on the console right now, If this would happened early Sony could have lost a lot of money, losing possible game sales on people that probably never had the intention of buying a PS3 because it was not pirate ready is not significant in my opinion, pirates never intended to pay
Pardon? I have no interest in either pirating OR homebrew. I just want to load the games that I bought onto the console to improve load times, avoid disc damage from handling, and keep all my games available at all times. What's the point of a 250GB drive it all I have on it are dinky PSN games?
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
You don't know what you are talking about. I successfully wrote and compiled PS3 software, then ran it on my retail console thanks to PSGroove.
God, root, what is difference ?
Sorry. Sony already ruined their own expensive console by removing marketed features after the fact.
Searching Google News returns about 7,700 hits for "PS3."
The "OtherOS" was never more than a very small part of the PS3 story - and it is the Move controller that is making headlines now.
"These hacks are fully detectable by PS3 and Sony." Only if the system is online....which most people already know and thanks to the ability to download the ps3 updates to a usb means you never have to connect your console to the Sony servers. "this is just used for pirating purposes" Welcome to the game of consumer desire and business ethics. You can buy something now and it is not legally your property. You are not allowed any freedoms with something you paid your money for. If this jailbreak allowed people to get a whole console for free then I would have some sympathy.....but as the Xbox community has already shown that the console...is only a computer. And a computer has the potential to do alot....even if it isn't in the original design. Hell, if it wasn't for hackers you wouldn't have the computer you sit in front of. Sony will not listen, the industry will not listen.....hackers ALWAYS listen...and they deliver hand over fist. Be mad all you want, the future of games are in the hands of the intelligent...and they numbers favor the hacking team. "Sony has lost the PS3 hacking war?" Yes...the fact Psgroove exist and works is absolute proof that the ps3 is hackable, and that Sony has gone to great lengths to prevent something that a bunch of "criminals" ,who are no better than pedophiles in some peoples eyes ,were able to accomplish. Now comes the flood of "homebrew" apps that will add value to a system and unlocks the potential for something greater. "What a great way to ruin your expensive console" you mean what a great way to keep revenue out of the pockets of billionaires who don't care for the consumer, only the stock margin and their own personal well being......
Without taking a stance on the whole piracy issue, this does work with a HTC Dream on a 120gb ps3 slim. Only problem is that it breaks wifi and sd storage (on the phone) until you reflash.
Great can I have Linux on my PS3 now?
Now that Sony has lost maybe they can give me back the features I PAID FOR.
Thanks.
> The "OtherOS" was never more than a very small part of the PS3 story - and it is the Move controller that is making headlines now.
Which has what to do with his point?
That Anonymous Coward guy is pretty annoying. Can we have the government censor him or something?
Exactly. I've been following this mod for exactly one reason: enabling PS2 games on PS3 versions which don't support that. Although having OtherOS to play with would be kind of neat (I have a slim, so I never had either feature.)
I don't pirate. I occasionally boycott a publisher, and then I simply do without their games (I'm looking at you, Ubisoft.) But I'd love to be able to disconnect my PS2 from my TV.
There have been some murmurs that this will be possible soon. The only question will be whether the cat-and-mouse game Sony will be playing with pirates will be too annoying.
Sony, bring back OtherOS and PS2 emulation, and I'll have no interest in this mod!
If I can pick up a PS3 for $299CDN and use is as a HTPC, screw games. If after it's hacked I can play one out of 1000 games then I'm cool with that. The slim ones look cool enough have ethernet, HDMI and other jacks and most HTPC's will set you back $400+ from scratch (especially if you want a decent looking case). So if they get access to the GPU then I'll get one and the PSN will never get a ping from me.
A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
Let's at least be a little bit honest. Maybe the ability to install Linux on a PS3 was a big deal around here, but for the vast majority of people buying one it's not even on their radar. There's a least a sizable number of these people who have either never heard of Linux or have no real understanding of what it actually is.
I don't expect that Sony will lose many sales over this. Considering that they may still be selling it at a loss and hoping to make up for it in game sales may actually net them more money as there were at least a few people who were using them to make clusters.
I'm a full time linux user and I also own a ps3 for two years now. However, I never tried to install linux on it because it does it's job well for what I can't do on my linux system - play games. I wouldn't be surprised if most slashdotters that posted so far don't even use linux on their desktop let alone own a ps3. So what's up with the hate?
From your point of view they took away a feature you never used. Now imagine Dell forced a new BIOS that would disable Linux from booting on your PC. Because "nobody uses linux". What would you say then?
I bought the PS3 for 3 things, linux, movies and games.
I used my PS3 as a thin client mostly. But also as a media center. But now thats no longer possible.
"It makes you smile that you can use one homebrew console to hack another to get homebrew on that console."
Yo dawg! I heard you like hacking homebrew, so we we put hack in your homebrew so you can hack homebrew while you hack!
IF your machine doesnt have PS2 compatibility already, no amount of software is going to bring it back. PS2 emulation on PS3 has ALWAYS depended on at least part of the PS2 hardware being physically present.
Good-bye
> If they don't get off their ass and release it I'm going to have to go buy a Sony 3D Blu-Ray player...
Ah, that isn't exactly incentive for them to update PS3s to support Blu-Ray. It is, in fact, the exact opposite.
That Anonymous Coward guy is pretty annoying. Can we have the government censor him or something?
Now that there is no unhacked console left, maybe the consolization of PC games will slow down a bit. And maybe Sony will finally release the PS4, so that PC graphics can finally move ahead. It has been 3 years since Crysis. PC games have been stalled in terms of graphics because the better the graphics are on the PC version the more difficult it is to port to the old tech on the consoles.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Nice way to turn this around.
The hackers didn't make Sony ban them from PSN, Sony pulled the trigger themselves. Regardless of weather they are legally within their rights to do so, it still was Sony's choice.
But console gamers keep telling me consoles are cheap (despite console games costing A$20 more then PC games.)
Further more, it's not. I used to have a modded Xbox 1, I used it to run XBMC and used it as a cheap media centre. I didn't play games on it, not even pirated ones. A lot of people are looking for cheap hardware to run a simple function on (like playing video's from a hard drive). Unfortunately nothing like my old Xbox 1 exists anymore thanks to overzealous content controls so I ended up building a media centre PC out of parts of old PC's.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Sure, it's basically copying the Wii idea...but "gimped out?" It's more actually more accurate and works better. Since "gimped out" means "crappier...doesn't work as well...." I'd say your statement is incorrect.
i don't side with sony with this war. before i did. ps3 had linux so you would run all your homebrew and emulators on there. so the hacking for homebrew was never a issue. and homebrew hackers left the system alone. 1 hacker finds a way to expolite threw linux sony pulls linux. they opened the flood gates all on there own. and unfortunately braking open the securty to reenable homebrew also means the pirates get there way to. so sorry sony you only did this to yourself..
What's the point of a 250GB drive it all I have on it are dinky PSN games?
Bragging rights over 360 console owners.
"And the latest report is that the next firmware update is going to disable the USB ports"
BULLSHIT.
Sorry, but I have to call this one out for what it is.
The USB ports are how the controllers are used during certain updates or if they're out of power. The USB ports also are how you plug in things like the Playstation Eye, a peripheral that Sony themselves sell and are relying on for their "Move" push.
They will not now, nor ever, disable the USB ports, this is some sort of forum echo-chamber nonsense or an outright troll that's somehow gained credence.
Especially when an update to their USB driver will destroy this jailbreak just as well.
While there is piracy on the consoles it isn't like the pc where most of the people playing the games aren't paying for them.
That isn't an exaggeration, numerous indy developers have reported piracy rates of over 80%. Just be glad there are enough sales on the pc to still justify console ports.
Apparently the latest firmware update fixes the USB exploit.
w00t
> I'm sorry, but the cold hard truth is that the OtherOS doesn't have all that much value.
To you.
That Anonymous Coward guy is pretty annoying. Can we have the government censor him or something?
http://exophase.com/ps3/ps3-firmware-3-42-hits-network-update-18063.htm:
w00t
Given what Sony did by removing the "other OS" feature after it was used for a hack, I think I can safely say that there is no way you cannot trust Sony not to retrospectively kill other features later. I don't hack my PS/3, but the "other OS" feature was a reason for me to buy it, so the "upgrade" isn't (and has thus not happened) because I refuse to pay the price for something I didn't do, and lose a feature I PAID FOR and which is on the product description.
Imagine what happens if someone finds a way to hack the box via a movie feature - given their approach to "other OS" it is not totally bizarre to expect them to nuke the "play video" feature in a next release, so thanks Sony, but there is not going to be another penny spent on anything PS/3, or anything else that is remote changeable. Quite simply, the PS/3 as a product is dead to me, and research for any new kit (whatever type) will certainly not begin with Sony.
If a company cannot take into account a certain amount of customisation when it gets a device out in public it suggests it is totally hopeless at both market analysis and crisis management. To me, that spells "incompetence".
No thanks.
Insert
It goes beyond that.
I bought a console to play PS3 games.
Sony will release (or rather, already has released) a firmware which disables certain things on my PS3.
I have the choice to not update. If I don't, I don't get PSN. That's fine.
In 2 months, there will be games which won't function unless they're booted on the newest firmware. That's not fine. Now I have a PS3 which won't play every PS3 game unless I update the firmware and lose features. Sony is holding functionality which I purchased hostage. That's no bueno.
To be fair, it should be noted that the unhacked PS3 provides a pretty decent media centre - easily extendible (by way of UPnP media servers) to play pretty much anything too.
250 GB won't last very long. Especially the PS3 exclusive titles fill out those BDs pretty good.
Uncharted 2 was around 39 GB as was God of War III. Heavy Rain used up about 28 GB.
I would love to install at least the game I am currently playing to the HD to decrease load times but I can understand why they left the feature out.
Your average XBox 360 game is roughly 7 GB. I guess Sony just puts a lot of uncompressed textures and sound files on their discs.