India's $35 7-Inch Android Tablet To Hit In January

indogiree writes "Engadget reports that India has just awarded the manufacturing contract to HCL Technologies. The first shipment will supposedly only contain the 7-inch model and is set to arrive on January 10. It's unclear if the $35 price has stuck or whether India's been successful in plans to drive the price down to $10 eventually with the help of large orders and government subsidies. HCL Technologies plans to initially produce 100,000 units. Among the key features of this India-based tablet include 2GB of RAM, web-conferencing, PDF reader, unzip, WiFi, camera and USB connectivity."

Comments

Production cost

[iONiUM]

I'd really like to know what the true production cost of this tablet is. If it's low enough that with a few subsidies from the government they can get it down to $35 or even $10, then it leads me to believe other tablets are severely overpriced for no reason.

If they are indeed overpriced, then why doesn't 1 competitor just come in with a ridiculously low price and suck up all the "cheap" market? This applies to phones as well, which are also very expensive (though we don't often notice due to hardware upgrades from the carriers).

Re:Production cost

[Joce640k]

India also has a $6000 car but most westerners (and especially the USA) wouldn't want it.

Re:Production cost

[AHuxley]

Wealth generation for the people who have stock is a good reason.
The ability for a US corp to make a healthy profit and spend the cash on next gen R and D or to ensure US legislation is well written.
India wants nation building, tablets are trying to hold cartel like pricing up.

Re:Production cost

[elh_inny]

Because, as Apple shows, people are not necessarily going for the cheapest thing.
Also you're shooting yourself with low profit margins - look at Motorola and Nokia nowadays - they were selling decent phones a while ago and decided to go for the low hanging fruit of cheap phones. That didn't leave enough focus/resources on the smartphones.
The result is the're both still in big trouble, with Motorola resuscitated by Google's Android as compared to cash rich Apple, who clearly have a strategy that brings in more money and focuses on innovation much more...

Re:Production cost

[lxt]

Two words for you: Resistive touchscreen

Re:Production cost

[mehrotra.akash]

The base model is $3000, its only if you want the model with AC,Airbags,etc that you pay $6000

Re:Production cost

[Jafafa Hots]

Is ANYTHING today manufactured someplace where child labor is UNCOMMON?

Re:Production cost

[hitmark]

How about: Increased usage range.

Re:Production cost

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Making a profit explains part of it. I don't think your anti-US conspiracy theory works well enough to explain the $35 price. The thing is, even the cost of the pile of parts for any other tablet on the market is a lot higher than $35. Also, almost none of the parts for a lot of the consumer tablets are made in the US or by US owned companies.

Re:Production cost

[lennier1]

Is that the same model of car that recently set fire to itself when a salesman wanted to take prospective buyers on a test drive?

Re:Production cost

[gringer]

I think most people would consider the manufacture of babies to be an industry where child labour is uncommon.

Re:Production cost

[Servaas]

I'm not up on the various numbers but what Toyota car recently had severe troubles with using the breaks? So apparently manufacturing problems don't just happen in cheap cars.

Re:Production cost

[Marcika]

Is ANYTHING today manufactured someplace where child labor is UNCOMMON?

Anything where consistent quality matters. Microprocessors are made in the US, Western Europe, Israel or Taiwan. Cars and their components are still predominantly made in Europe, Japan, Korea or the US. Passenger planes - US, Europe, Brazil. Etc etc.

Re:Production cost

[Pikoro]

Wasn't a problem with the brakes. Was a problem with the floor mats.

Re:Production cost

[Anonymous Coward]

You think? Apple sells to the latte sipping metrosexual poseur who pays for a brand. Apple is a company that repackages other people's ideas and technological advances and sticks a logo on it, and sells it in lot of pretty colours. The idea that Apple is a technology company is a total fallacy.

Re:Production cost

[frozentier]

If they are indeed overpriced, then why doesn't 1 competitor just come in with a ridiculously low price and suck up all the "cheap" market?

The same reason they are marked up to begin with: Profits. If you mark something down $200 from your original price, you could end up making less money than your competitors even if you DO get their potential customers.

Re:Production cost

[bball99]

don't know how phones can get much cheaper... 'round these parts, throwaway terrorist phones go for $4.88 in the dollar store or FYE

Re:Production cost

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

I believe the prices set by these chinese (post-)shanzai shops show what's practically possible...

What would you say to a 7" touchscreen android with wifi & 2GB RAM for under $100 delivered to your door.

I don't see any reason that price can't be halved for a large enough order & then you're only looking at a $15/unit subsidy.

Re:Production cost

[Servaas]

Thats why they were given firmware upgrades? Wiki source quote: On February 9, 2010, Toyota announced a voluntary global recall of third generation 2010 Prius models manufactured from the current model's introduction through late January. Affected models, including 133,000 Prius vehicles in the U.S. and 52,000 in Europe, are to receive an anti-lock brake software update to fix brake response over rough roads, Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

Re:Production cost

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Assuming there was any problem at all, it could have been a mistake compounded by mass psychology and media attention. It sounds like it might be another 60 Minutes-Audi type hysteria, the Audi case was where people can swear they pressed the brakes but it turns out they really pressed the gas pedal.

Re:Production cost

[mehrotra.akash]

its the same car, but dont know which model the one that caught fire was.
most prob. the more expensive one since ppl dont buy the cheaper one much

Re:Production cost

[silverglade00]

Watched MTV lately?

Re:Production cost

[Joce640k]

"brakes". The word is "brakes"...

Re:Production cost

[Glonoinha]

its just the price after the government subsidizes it for their own students

And that, I think you are right, is the focal point that is being sorely missed.

When I was a school child I had access to an Apple IIe, a Commodore PET, a TRS 80-III, and an IBM PCjr. Not exciting by today's standards, but the MSRP on these four machines would have totaled roughly $10,000 at the time. The cost to me : $0. These were machines at the different computer labs where I went to school, and they were subsidized by the government in one form or another. Even if the Indian government is subsidizing these to the tune of $100 apiece (selling the $135 tablets to students for $35) it's roughly the same as what the government did for me as a child, fiscally, but today's kids get to take them home.

Today I'm a professional software engineer and last year I paid $18,000 in income taxes to the government, about the same as I've been paying for the past five years, with less than that the years before (as I made less earlier in my career.) I'd say the ROI on those original government subsidized computers was pretty good.

I wonder what the ROI on the government subsidies on these tablets will be...

Re:Production cost

[selven]

You'd be surprised

Re:Production cost

[robably]

Give the guy a brake.

Re:Production cost

[Jeff DeMaagd]

OK, maybe it's real, but maybe not necessarily in the way the Indian government claims, unless they bought/stole the design. It also looks like the Indian government is also subsidizing 25% of the manufacturing cost:

http://androidos.in/2010/09/the-truth-about-35-android-tablet-from-indian-government/

Someone else pointed out that it's a resistive touch screen, which is a technology that's at least a couple decades old. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the cheapest TN display they could find.

Re:Production cost

[Jeff DeMaagd]

The supposed problem wasn't rough roads. People were claiming problems in parking lots too. One major problem in a lot of the cases was that the computer crash log showed the gas pedal being pressed when people said they hit the brakes. A firmware update can't fix user error, but it could be a good placebo in the case of mass hysteria.

Re:Production cost

[CharlyFoxtrot]

If you watch the video of the guy you'll notice he doesn't say it costs $35 to produce but rather he has a contract to buy a million of them at $35. He goes on to empathically say that this wouldn't be a retail price but this is the price at which it would be delivered to educational institutions. That makes me think it's more heavily subsidized (by all parties involved) than they are letting on. It could make financial sense for the company to get these tablets in the hands of students even at a loss, like Apple also does iPod giveaways from time to time.

Re:Production cost

[cmdr_tofu]

Wikipedia says the Tata Nano started around $2200. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano

I wouldn't want that car (or any car) in Delhi, but for rainy days when I don't feel like bicycling to work in New England, I think it would be grand. Plus the rain might help put out the spontaneous combustion hahaha.

Re:Production cost

[nbharatvarma]

This appears to be an initiative by the government to push technology to the masses. I doubt the tablet (if it is not vaporware) will be available at this price for everyone. They will probably subsidize these devices to certain sections of the society. We have something called a Ration Card which is given based on your economic status. You can use that to get a subsidy on food, oil etc. I am assuming that subsidy on the tablet would be based on something like that.

India probably has the highest growth in terms of mobile devices purchased. The cheapest Nokia mobile set here costs USD 25 and we have Indian mobile companies now (Lava, MicroMax, Karbonn) who are aiming to provide mobiles for USD 10 in 2011. I have seen beggars with mobile phones. That's how low the entry-barrier is, in India. These mobiles do their job well.

India also has a very good mobile coverage. The areas which are not covered by private providers are covered by the state-owned BSNL. 3G services are going to get rolled out sometime towards the end of 2010.

The government wishes to push technology to masses. This is a good step in that direction.

Re:Production cost

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Especially with the "2 GB" RAM part,

Well, I used the term RAM the same way the submitter did. Incorrectly.

But I think we'll see $35 Android 7" tablets by the end of the year. (probably not from the Indian govt however)

Re:Production cost

[PopeRatzo]

The ability for a US corp to make a healthy profit and spend the cash on next gen R and D or to ensure US legislation is well written.

Boy, are you crazy.

Any idea how long it's been since a "US corp" (whatever that is) has spent cash on R & D? And you believe that corporations worry about whether legislation is "well-written"?

All I can say is that India better hope like hell that Apple doesn't have nukes yet.

Re:Production cost

[yakatz]

Wasn't a problem with the brakes. Was a problem with the floor mats.

Wasn't a problem with either. Was a problem with the driver

As anyone in computer support knows, the most common error code is "ID-10T".
If you prefer, a "layer-8" problem.
Could be known in this case as "PICNIC" (here meaning Problem In Chair, Not In Car).
The automotive technician version: "loose nut between the steering wheel and the seat"
I could almost go on about this all day.

Re:Production cost

[pipatron]

But.. it's so shiny! The polish alone must be at least $10.

Re:Production cost

[pipatron]

Of course they use the cheapest technology, when they want to produce the cheapest product. The point they want to make is that the consumer doesn't necessarily want to pay the extra money to get the extra expensive parts when they are not necessary for the functionality. You don't need the glossy shiny polished glass surface to check the bus timetable on your smartphone, for example.

Re:Production cost

[Darkness404]

Because people were scared and its better to appear to have a fix to a non existent problem than risk being seen like you are doing nothing.

In August 2010, the Wall St. Journal reported that experts at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration had examined the "black boxes" of 58 vehicles involved in sudden-acceleration reports. The study found that in 35 of the cases, the brakes weren't applied at the time of the crash. In nine other cases in the same study, the brakes were used only at the last moment before impact.[210] [edit]

Yeah, pretty much -all- the cases were due to driver error. Remember those 911 tapes where the guy wouldn't put his car in neutral, etc?

The problem is when one person reports a "problem" everyone else thinks "oh wow, I probably have the same problem if I did/will crash my Prius!" even though the problem was non-existent.

Sometimes you need to "fix" a problem that is not there in order to avoid media bashing.

Re:Production cost

[kenh]

Uhm, the production cost of what is essentially a "smartphone without a phone" is in no way related to the production cost of an actual tablet computer using note/netbook-caliber components, add in the Gov't subsidies and the reality that this is a $100 chinese product that is apparently being bought on the cheap due to a lack of interest in the market (read "they are being dumped").

Thanks jigsawhacker for the link: http://androidos.in/2010/09/the-truth-about-35-android-tablet-from-indian-government/

Re:Production cost

[sensationull]

All I can say is that India better hope like hell that Apple doesn't have nukes yet.

Epic comment, you should have been modded both insightful and funny for that one :)

Re:Production cost

[sensationull]

Also you're shooting yourself with low profit margins - look at Motorola and Nokia nowadays - they were selling decent phones a while ago and decided to go for the low hanging fruit of cheap phones. That didn't leave enough focus/resources on the smartphones.

And thats why Nokia has large market penitration in "the rest of the world", the US is the only one where they skipped out on because of wanting to many rights for the end users when it came to carrier deals. All of Apples 'inovation' is based on other peoples work (Nokia and others for the actual ability to work as a phone), they are really just skilled collage makers pasting together technologies that other people have made into their own product.

Re:Production cost

[jrumney]

Also, when you look hard for a software bug that turns out not to be there, you might find others in the process.

Re:Production cost

[Idiomatick]

The problem Toyota had existed purely between the seat and wheel. Pretty certain that no problem existed at all. People simply stomped down the gas instead of the brakes or some other simple mistake and then blamed Toyota. The mistake Toyota made was that they treated these people respectfully rather than calling them a bunch of lunatics and summarily dismissing their claims.

Re:Production cost

[michael_cain]

Of course they use the cheapest technology...

Indeed. If the device is actually delivered, there will be a number of questions that will really get answered. Is the display tolerable to use? What is the real battery life? How well do the touch functions actually work? Does it survive the first drop (and I suspect that as a small tablet, it will get dropped regularly)?

Re:Production cost

[david duncan scott]

Apple should remember that India does, in fact, have nukes.

Re:Production cost

[Arceliar]

All I can say is that India better hope like hell that Apple doesn't have nukes yet.

Think about it. The mark of the beast. Something placed upon the hand or the head. Impossible to do business without it. Wrought by one who is worshiped as a demigod, but is in fact the antichrist.

If Apple has nukes, it won't just be the end of India.

What we're witnessing here could be the beginning of the end. The iPocalypse itself.

Re:Production cost

[twidarkling]

I'm pretty sure I saw a breakdown of the parts/cost for the iPad, and it worked out to about $200 for the most expensive model, but that was off-the-shelf parts, rather than bulk from a distributor, so knock that down to about $100, I'd guess. Still more than your $35.

Also, interesting to note, stores like Staples sell at pretty much what the manufacturer sells to them at. That's why they push extended service plans and accessories, they're not making any profit off the laptop you're buying.

Re:Production cost

[mehrotra.akash]

Yes, it was supposed to be the 1lakh(Rs 100,000) car, but the actual prices went up, and including the taxes,etc, the price goes up to approx 1.5 lakh($3000 taking a conversion rate of Rs 50=$1)

Re:Production cost

[bwayne314]

is it wrong if the first thing i thought when i read this was "holy crap, how thin are the edges of the screen? if they get to $10 I could wallpaper my room with them!"

Re:Production cost

[Attila Dimedici]

The biggest problem with selling the $6000 car in the US is that it will not pass the safety and emissions regulations that a car must pass to be sold in the US. I am pretty sure that if they could sell the car in the US it would pretty well (although I know nothing about its reliability, so if it is not very reliable, maybe not).

Re:Production cost

[PopeRatzo]

The iPocalypse itself.

You jest, but I just finished reading Doctorow's political novel, Makers and he makes a good case for why walled gardens = epic EVIL.

What makes it hurt even more is that a logo that once stood for freedom and invention now stands for limitations and prevention.

Re:Production cost

[sjames]

A problem that went away when Audi redesigned the placement of the pedals. It was an ergonomics rather than a mechanical failure.

Re:Production cost

[laederkeps]

I believe the prices set by these chinese (post-)shanzai shops show what's practically possible...

What would you say to a 7" touchscreen android with wifi & 2GB RAM for under $100 delivered to your door.

I don't see any reason that price can't be halved for a large enough order & then you're only looking at a $15/unit subsidy.

No, it's got 2GB of NAND flash, only 128MB of RAM. Whoever modded you insightful apparently didn't bother clicking that link.

The $35 tablet described in TFS supposedly comes with 2GB of RAM.

Re:Production cost

[zippthorne]

I think you will find that the term offers an interpretation under which it is not only common, but exclusive!

Re:Production cost

[mr_mischief]

"empathically" != "emphatically"

Re:Production cost

[Fallingwater]

The western world doesn't buy supercheap cars because it understandably has a problem with deathtraps. But a tablet can't kill you, no matter how badly it's made.

Re:Production cost

[chrb]

If they are indeed overpriced, then why doesn't 1 competitor just come in with a ridiculously low price and suck up all the "cheap" market?

I have seen the 7" apad (iped, epad etc.) going for as low as $60USD on Chinese websites. You can Buy It Now on U.S. Ebay for $100. Also Android phones (Sciphone G15) for $100.

But these devices are not so popular in the U.S. and Europe. I would guess that they don't perform as well as a HTC device. Also, a phone is a fashion statement. Having the $100 Chinese Android phone is not going to impress as much as having a $600 "American/European brand (but built in China)" Android phone.

Re:Production cost

[BlackBloq]

Ummm isn't that just what this company IS doing? Or is 30 or so $ not cheap enough?

Re:Production cost

[Larryish]

?when maek cheap babby uses cheap womans?

Re:Production cost

[symbolic]

The result is the're both still in big trouble, with Motorola resuscitated by Google's Android as compared to cash rich Apple, who clearly have a strategy that brings in more money and focuses on innovation much more...

As for Apple - innovation, somewhat, marketing definitely, but there is far too often a design or quality problem of some kind or another.

Re:Production cost

[I'm Not There (1956)]

I was in India a few months ago and saw the car there. Its price in India was almost one third of this.

Re:Production cost

[leighklotz]

The Sciphone CPU looks a bit slow these days. If they had a faster one with a keyboard I'd consider it, especially if it had the keys missing from the Tmobile G2 (no brackets, for example).

Re:Production cost

[mobby_6kl]

They're going to make a version for Europe apparently, but it will be more expensive to account for all the safety & emissions changes. I think it's pretty pointless in the developed world, since you can either get some new cheap shitbox for slightly more money, which will nevertheless be better, or a way nicer 5-10 year old car that will be much better in every way for the same or smaller amount of money.

If it was like $1000-2000 then I'd just buy it to race in the mall parking lot, or make an RC car or something, but for $6000 it's a bit too expensive for a toy or even as a second city car.

Re:Production cost

[Fumus]

You mean this as a bad/good thing? I love resistive screens. I don't need to use my fingers to select stuff. It's kind of impossible to use a capacitive screen with 1 inch nails.

Re:Production cost

[Presence2]

Last week I bought my parents a Toshiba pre-paid cell phone with 60 minutes that has all the standard cell phone features minus a camera and web browsing. The package included the phone, battery, programmable sim, wall charger, car charger, and a hands free mic/ear piece. They're going on a vacation and don't have a cell so it was an amazing deal for a little road-side security at only 10 dollars. I was pretty amazed, it made me wonder just how marked up all our higher end phones are when they can practically give this one away.

Or perhaps, like subscription plans, they hope that people will just buy more minutes on it and pay it off, but I suspect they're not losing any money if you choose not to.

Re:Production cost

[lineswine]

Assuming there was any problem at all, it could have been a mistake compounded by mass psychology and media attention. It sounds like it might be another 60 Minutes-Audi type hysteria, the Audi case was where people can swear they pressed the brakes but it turns out they really pressed the gas pedal.

Just as well American favour automatic gearboxes - think the trouble they'd get into if they had THREE pedals to deal with!

Re:Production cost

[freedom_india]

and this from a country that bought Yugo by the thousands...

Re:Production cost

[KingAlanI]

so some of the Toyota mess was the 'wrong pedal' mistake? Even realizing that mistake ASAP, it's still dangerous.
Being in the wrong gear is a similar thing, although not relevant to this particular issue.

Re:Production cost

[freedom_india]

It actually passed the EU standards http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/video-nano-passes-european-crash-test/ which are slightly more stringent than US standards. Oh BTW, the Yugo did pass those pesky US standards, LOL

Re:Production cost

[freedom_india]

I guess probably USA still loves the Yugo: for its $3990/- tag.

Re:Production cost

[lsatenstein]

Rethink your response about other competitors. A) Why have small margins, when larger ones are possible? B) What will finance R&D development, if it is not some of the cream from the overpriced stuff? C) How to support a roulette gambling habit? D) How to appear in Slashdot without appearing to be gouging?

Re:Production cost

[CAIMLAS]

Would that car pass Western fuel economy testing, safety rating testing, etc.?

And even if it would, that would add 50%+ to the ticket price.

Personally, I'd pay $6k for a new vehicle... which I knew was rigorously designed, carefully assembled, and the like. I don't really care what it would be, as long as it'd be big enough to legally transport my family (which, due to living in the US, is a bit of a problem in most cars due to having to keep children under 7 or so in car large, bulky seats which do not fit 3-across in a sedan). I don't care if the car doesn't have all the "nice" things like AC and airbags, as long as it's not a deathtrap.

Re:Production cost

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

You know, I test drove a brand new Yugo, many years ago, when they came out in Canada.
I started it up, and the salesman was fiddeling around putting on the dealer license plate, I checked to make sure it was in neutral, and promptly stalled it when I took my foot off the clutch pedal, to help with the plate.
I drove it for about 20 minutes and never did find 3rd gear.
Strangely enough I did not buy the car.

Re:Production cost

[oliverthered]

what a Ferrari?

Re:Production cost

[CharlyFoxtrot]

iPad auto correction and spell check in action.

Re:Production cost

[mehrotra.akash]

I live in India, and can assure you that you cannot find a new Nano for $1000.

The original price was $2000 which you may have seen in the papers/advt. but that goes to $3000 including the recent price hike and taxes,indurance,etc

Re:Production cost

[Adm.Wiggin]

Not to mention accuracy! I have particularly skinny fingers, and it's still much easier to hit a tiny link on a webpage without zooming if I can use my fingernail.

Re:Production cost

[geekoid]

Only is some case, AND the research did NOT include any of the initial vehicles.

Yes, some people tried to ride it's coat tails to excuse their bad behavior.
There was a floor mats problem, and something with the firmware. Toyota admitted that.

Re:Production cost

[cave_canum]

Of course they're overpriced, why would you pay $300 for a kindle, when the device should be able to be e-reader, PC and smart phone at under $200 price point? Because people will pay to have the flashy toy that others can't afford! But I got to admit, I wouldn't have believed it possible for $35. Where do I get in line?

2GB Ram?

[drerwk]

I can not find 2GB RAM retail for less than $35. So the summary is truly amazing, or RAM is not a global market.

Re:2GB Ram?

[lxt]

The submission is wrong. It's flash memory, not RAM. The TFA even says so.

Re:2GB Ram?

[bfree]

Any Android tablet with 2GB of ram would be very interesting, but of course this this has 2GB of storage not ram.

Re:2GB Ram?

[mseeger]

Hmmm.... how about buying large quantities? A "DDR2 1Gb 128Mx8 800MHz" chip costs less than 2 US$ on the spot market. So you can get 2GB for below 4 bucks as manudacturer (Source: http://www.dramexchange.com/).

CU, Martin

Re:2GB Ram?

[jginspace]

Yeah, I also wondered what a "PDF reader unzip" is. The mistake is courtesy of Brian Yalung at nexus404.com. The editor here removed the link but kept the quote (see Related Stories).

Re:2GB Ram?

[mprinkey]

1 Gb is 1 gigaBIT. 2 GB is 2 gigaBYTES. So, to make 2 GBs, you need 16 of those $2 chips, not two. So, ~$32 for 2 GB of RAM, just for the chips. 2 GB DIMMs/SoDIMMs are in $35-$40 range on the site you posted.

Re:2GB Ram?

[frozentier]

Things in flash don't disappear when you unplug it.

Re:2GB Ram?

[mseeger]

Ouch, yes.... me not looking closely enough.

Re:2GB Ram?

[drinkypoo]

I can not find 2GB RAM retail for less than $35. So the summary is truly amazing, or RAM is not a global market.

Logic? You fail it. The tablet is not made with retail products. Products are sold for what the market will bear. The retail market will bear higher prices than the wholesale, reseller market.

Re:2GB Ram?

[Goaway]

Flash most definitely is not "RAM". It can not be arbitrarily written.

Re:2GB Ram?

[james_a_craig]

Actually, no it's not. Flash can't be written to randomly; it needs a block erase cycle first (and generally a block is fairly large; we're not talking one or two bytes here). Technically you can zero bits without an erase, but not set them to 1 (erasing sets everything to 1).

This is why there's a distinction between EEPROM, FLASH, and RAM.

Re:2GB Ram?

[mseeger]

Correct... stupid, careless me.

Re:2GB Ram?

[jginspace]

I guess the nexus404.com were just copying the error. I followed a chain of misinformation down thru techpp.com, newlaunches.com, digitaltrends.com - all of whom dutifully copied the 2GB RAM quote - can't find the source. Apparently, according to those reports, it'll run on 2 watts.

Re:2GB Ram?

[wayward_bruce]

You're talking about physical memory, such as SDRAM, DDR, etc. But RAM is a higher, functionally descriptive term. Observe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random-access_memory , third paragraph.

Re:2GB Ram?

[james_a_craig]

Actually, no, it's exactly the functionally descriptive term I'm challenging.

The normal definition is a memory with flat access times - i.e. it doesn't matter what part of the memory you access, you can do it equally quickly. This doesn't apply for things like tapes or HDDs, which are respectively either sequential or semi-sequential (sequential per cylinder) access.

In the case of flash the time to perform a write is strongly dependent on the preexisting erase state of the block - if it's cleared already, it's much faster than if you need to clear it. That means that the time to access a given block of memory isn't constant (or even nearly so) so it's not really random-access.

(If you want to be really nit-picky, it's random access on reads but not on writes. It can even end up being more complicated since you can have a read queued behind a erase on some flash devices)

Re:2GB Ram?

[wayward_bruce]

Thanks for clarifying and setting me straight on the meaning of "random" in RAM.

Re:2GB Ram?

[drerwk]

Yes, logic, of course. But then the device is more than just the memory, which at best is 1/3 the cost along with display, and battery, and maybe even a processor. Regarding the retail memory market, I doubt the markup is even 10% from wholesale. I don't think OLPC even broke $180 in whole sale cost.

Re:2GB Ram?

[93 Escort Wagon]

Suddenly that goes from unbelievably awesome to unbelievably shitty. 2GB RAM = holy shit! 2GB internal flash = !usable. I hope it has an external slot.

We're talking about a $10 tablet - how could you reasonably expect an external expansion slot?

Re:2GB Ram?

[Anonymous Coward]

Another person stupid enough to not comprehend the difference between stupidity and ignorance. Who are you trying to impress with that comment? Insecure fuck.

Re:2GB Ram?

[mr_mischief]

In that case of that restrictive of a definition, any NUMA machine would not have RAM as its main memory. Even if the chips themselves are RAM, the processors couldn't access them in an equal amount of time.

Re:2GB Ram?

[james_a_craig]

Within any one memory device the timings would still be constant, though - a single CPU can access all the data within any one device in constant time across that device.

That constant will be faster for local memory than for another CPU's RAM, but within any one RAM device it's still constant.

Re:2GB Ram?

[CAIMLAS]

Hell, it wasn't long ago that finding 2GB of flash for $35 was a bit difficult, too.

Re:2GB Ram?

[gweihir]

It is "stupid" not "ignorant" because the result did contradict what others were saying. In such cases a smart person does a validation of his/her assumptions. A stupid one does not. It is also really, really hard to miss the distinction between 'b' and 'B', so anybody feeling qualified to comment on memory prices but not knowing the difference is a sure "left-side" item for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Incidentally your over-aggressive reaction is quite telling.

Wow!

[JosefSit]

I like the indian approach in this case!

It seem to me, that they are taking success-concepts from the western world and integrate them into their culture.

Its crazy, though: Some of the poorest people live there and they start pumping "newest" technology to make it affordable...

Re:Wow!

[Anonymous Coward]

Anything can be made not only "affordable", but even "free" with sufficient amount of subsidies.

It's not honest to advertise subsidized prices as the true expense. Someone is paying the subsidies, although it might not be the student or his school. Yet especially in India, they want to express nationalistic pride for this achievement, while comparing subsidized price with unsubsidized free-market prices. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that this device is fair amount more expensive in total cost than the tablets Chinese manufacturers have been pushing out now for a while. For instance, one can find "Android tablet PCs" from AliExpress for tad over $60. I wouldn't buy one, but I highly suspect that the Indians would have beaten the Chinese in costs...

Re:Wow!

[Anne Thwacks]

It's not honest to advertise subsidized prices as the true expense

You might want to tell Boeing and you local congresscritter.

Re:Wow!

[JosefSit]

Anything can be made not only "affordable", but even "free" with sufficient amount of subsidies

I think that is a good point. But you have to get the subsidies from somewhere. Be it the market, or from the government (taxes). Either way, some people have to earn money in order to spend it. I totally agree to your sentence and would add: "anything can be made affordable but not everything" :)

Re:Wow!

[jginspace]

It seem to me, that they are taking success-concepts from the western world and integrate them into their culture.

Actually the source might not be 'western' but Chinese - see comment lower down "The Truth about $35 Android Tablet from Indian Gov" with story from androidos.in.

Re:Wow!

[herojig]

>>I mean com'on, when was the last time you bought anything hightech that was made in India I bought a 2004 Royal Enfield Bullet 350cc. Best mode of transportation I have ever owned.

The Truth about $35 Android Tablet from Indian Gov

[jigsawhacker]

http://androidos.in/2010/09/the-truth-about-35-android-tablet-from-indian-government/

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[Anonymous Coward]

You are comparing an mp3 player to a phone.

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[obarthelemy]

Congratz, you're snap bang at the core of Apple's market: people who can't tell a phone from an MP3 player.

It comes with peach-colored sleeves, too !

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[cmdr_tofu]

How about this device?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/26/augens-150-android-tablet-hits-kmart-circular-coming-to-store/
http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/08/08/1727223/Kmart-Briefly-Offers-149-Android-Tablet

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[wmac]

this device does not have access to Android Market anymore. The access was revoked by google because of the poor quality and the bad reputation it might give android.

I had one of these and its battery would finish in 1-2 hours on a full charge (Wifi browsing) and I returned it.

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Maybe the iPod touch should be called an app-pod instead of an iPod analogous to how some people call the latest smartphones app-phones. It's literally in a class of its own, why people don't try to jump into that market segment is beyond me.

That would be the new Ferrari

[Kupfernigk]

I believe Ferrari have just had a recall of their latest model over a design fault that can set fire to plastic insulation in a wing. This makes a serious point. The investment to make a fully reliable modern car from the first production run is stupendous. We shouldn't be surprised if niche manufacturers, or new market entrants, have teething troubles.

Re:That would be the new Ferrari

[jrumney]

TATA is hardly a niche manufacturer nor a new market entrant however.

It is not HCL who is doing this it is allgo

[dominic.laporte]

Here is a better explanation of the price breakdown.

Re:The Truth about $35 Android Tablet from Indian

[notaspy]

and
http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/jaimonjoseph/326/62006/is-indias--35-laptop-really-indian.html

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[Anonymous Coward]

It's in the same class as PDAs from the 1990s, and Nokia's internet tablets from 2005-2009; why everyone else completely left that market segment is beyond me.

That was probably a £170k Ferrari

[fantomas]

That was probably a £170K Ferrari 458 - they seem to be bursting into flames quite regularly, general recall of the model is currently going on ;-)

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[cmdr_tofu]

KMart is still advertising these as having full access to Android market:
http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_020W023705190001P?keyword=tablet&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

And other reviews say 2-3 hours video playback:
http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_020W023705190001P?keyword=tablet&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1#reviewsWrap

I'm not saying you're wrong. Some javascript can be wasteful of CPU and power (although not less than bad Flash!). But if they took away Android Market, KMART should stop advertising it a device which has Android Market access.

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[Idiomatick]

Apple has an mp3 player cheaper than any Android phone that I'm aware of + an arbitrary app store limitation.

Colour me unimpressed.

Re:"Tolerable"

[Joce640k]

Tolerable for who? It's all about expectations.

The Western press will no doubt compare it side-by-side with the iPad and go on at great length about all its shortcomings, how isn't as shiny, how the touch-screen isn't as good, how the speaker is a bit naff, etc., but that's not who it's aimed at.

Re:Outship It to Me

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, how will India stop me from buying a dozen of these there and shipping them back here

There exists such a thing as 'Customs' in Indian airports. So, you ask how will India stop you? Simply by detaining you at the airport when the X-ray finds those dozens of tablets in your suitcase, and probably throwing you into the nearest cell till your lawyer bails you out and then, to top it all, imposing a life ban on your re-entering the country.

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[wmac]

You are right. Kmart should remove the claim.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/07/augens-kmart-tablet-and-smartbook-wont-have-google-branded-app/

http://www.tabletpcreview.com/default.asp?newsID=1561&news=google+Android+os+augen+gentouch78+kmart+tablet

Re:Outship It to Me

[Doc Ruby]

Some day "shipping" will come to India, and we will be able to send a package from the country without being there personally. Just like people used to do with drugs, before India's Customs agencies got their import/export perfect under the control of law and order.

Re:VoIP; Archos and the Market

[twidarkling]

"You can use a program to use a device in a manner it wasn't specifically built for, and doesn't include the same components that raise the cost, so the fact that it's cheaper is TOTALLY relevant, you meanie!"

Seriously, either compare phones to phones, or mp3 players to mp3 players. Theoretical devices do not count, faking functionality does not count.

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[twidarkling]

K Mart is lower on the chain than Wal-Mart. You're surprised that they've not updated the status of a product? I'm surprised the site actually has basic functionality.

Re:Outship It to Me

[93 Escort Wagon]

There exists such a thing as 'Customs' in Indian airports. So, you ask how will India stop you? Simply by detaining you at the airport when the X-ray finds those dozens of tablets in your suitcase, and probably throwing you into the nearest cell till your lawyer bails you out and then, to top it all, imposing a life ban on your re-entering the country.

I have several Indian friends who've told me there are ways around anything "official" there (and provided numerous specific personal anecdotes to support that claim). It's just a matter of greasing the right palms.

What will happen

[Eil]

If this actually happens and India really does subsidize and sell these Android tablets for $35 a pop to Indian citizens, I predict a lot of U.S. and western geeks will be purchasing them for $100 each on eBay.

Re:Outship It to Me

[Anonymous Coward]

Those Indian friends of yours seem to be the typical armchair experts who enjoy giving opinions over a glass of beer. It really isn't that easy.

Why don't you try it? It's an open challenge. Once this product is released, I want to see you smuggle a dozen of these tablets to the USA - just a dozen. I will reimburse the costs of all 12 tablets if you manage to do it.

well

[AnAdventurer]

I buy stuff from China & HK that went out the back door or fell off a truck all the time. It's just a question of the search. I bought a TLR2s for $150, a EOTech 512 for $70, 2 SAPI plates for $90. a VHF/UHF hand held w/ no lis for $50, Timny 3lbs trigger group for $150. and a 13 ft RHI for $600 (plus about $100 in customs/shipping) All new. A $35 TS tablet is not so surprising.

Re:"Tolerable"

[mr_mischief]

I'll compare it to the iPad right now: even marked up to $50 without the subsidy and marked up to $75 to make a profit and another $25 for international shipping and duties, I can buy six of them instead of one iPad. Six. At least three or four of them, even if the numbers are a little off. Since the iPad is intentionally limited in capabilities compared to laptops of the same price, I'd say this thing can afford to be a little behind the iPad in processor speed and touch screen accuracy.

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[CarpetShark]

You are comparing an mp3 player to a phone.

Who, me? ;)

Lemme guess

[SpaghettiPattern]

Lemme guess, another fine attempt by the Indians to promote a poor man's computer. Like the hugely successful Simputer. I can't wait to see the sleek design of the device. If I were Apple I'd be very afraid.

Ram!= RWM

[TimSSG]

This has to do with RAM being redefined as RW (read/Write) RAM they were NOT the same 20 years ago and are still NOT the same today. Tim S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM

Re:"Tolerable"

[steve_bryan]

It will not be running iOS. It took Microsoft about 11 years to clone a bad copy of MacOS which managers were willing to inflict on their employees. Sarcastic and easily provoked critics can go on about things being "shiny" but there really a difference which people are willing to pay to enjoy. The marketing noise about iOS devices being "magical" strike me and many others are silly at best and often just plain annoying. But they are remarkably more natural than the conventional GUI. Commercial touchscreens I had used before the iPad were so annoying that I would usually prefer to see them destroyed rather than try to use them. It seems unlikely that the India pad will preserve that natural-ness with the hardware components and software that fit within its budget.

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[rsborg]

Apple has an mp3 player cheaper than any Android phone that I'm aware of + an arbitrary app store limitation. Colour me unimpressed.

You want unimpressed? Why is there no Android challenger to the iPod Touch? Even the iPad challengers all *require* cellular accounts or have no Marketplace access. Android and OHA better change their stance or they will not be making much headway into the corporate or home markets. I don't want a Tablet/phone, and I don't think many other people will either. I sure as hell don't want to pay for an additional voice contract just to get a tablet that has Marketplace access.

Re:Outship It to Me

[mobby_6kl]

Are you saying you have first-hand experience with smuggling tablets out of India? And you got caught?

Re:VoIP; Archos and the Market

[tepples]

What Android MP3 player has the Market?

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[obarthelemy]

I don't know who he is, but I'm not going away. I don't quite get your post, too.

Re:"Tolerable"

[mr_mischief]

I doubt Microsoft will be doing the OS. Palm had a touch-based OS long before the iPad. (So did Apple for that matter. The Newton was a better machine for its day than the iPad is for today, IMO.) VTech has touch interfaces for kids that toddlers toddlers have no problem using, but the applications are very limited (yes, much more than the iPad) because the whole systems they produce are designed for toddlers.

My problems with the artificial limits of the iPad furthermore have nothing to do with the UI and I didn't at all call it "magical". I just don't like being limited to only their App Store and only to single-purpose applications preapproved by Apple. Some people prefer it, but I don't. You can say it's good, but you can't say it's not a limit. Being a limited device is exactly the point, per Steve Jobs.

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[tepples]

You are comparing an mp3 player to a phone.

This is true only because unlike Apple, Google has so far chosen not to allow Market access from an MP3 player.

Re:"Tolerable"

[steve_bryan]

I owned a Newton and enjoyed it to some extent but to compare it to the iPad is beyond silly. It was a fine geek gadget but not in the same league as the iPad. More iPads were sold in its first week of availability than all Newtons for its entire history. Some of those limitations you allude to are an important part of why it transcends the tech market and manages to cross over to the mass market.

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[Idiomatick]

Why is there no iPod challenger to my nice mahogany chair? Your question is sorta pointless...

Re:"Tolerable"

[mr_mischief]

What the world needs, though, isn't to separate geek markets and mass markets. A computer is a very flexible thing, and the UI is just software. There's no reason you can't have a simple, easy to learn UI that has ways to get out to a more general OS. OS X does that. The new eased restrictions on design and implementation tools for the OS is a good start.

Its a good move from the govt

[srinathhs]

Considering india's market, there are more buyers for these kinds of cheap gadgets in the lower middle class / typical town peoples, if the price is set around 35$ its a good buy. Imagine, these tablets hitting rural areas, this will open a *LOT* of opportunity, for both IT companies, and for the people.

Re:VoIP; Archos and the Market

[freedom_india]

Hi, please STOP calling Apple's iPod Touch as an MP3 player. Its like calling a Rolls Royce a "car". Sure, iPod Touch can play MP3, but i use it to watch Two-and-a-half men episodes and Radarmen from the Moon classics.

Re:VoIP; Archos and the Market

[Sparr0]

I'm a bit out of touch... When did Apple cease the big "Fuck You" to its customers in the form of not approving VOIP apps?

Yes, but will it be backdoored?

[arisvega]

Judging from their (Indian gov) demands on Blackberry and Skype, I'll not be surprised if this turns out to be backdoored- 'USB connectivity' involves GPS, widely used by tourists and tr'rists-

Anyway I'm getting one. Or more.

I bought one...

[akayani]

on eBay for $200. Total crap! With the touch surface being a plastic laminate and NOT multi-touch you couldn't even scroll a web page without hitting and opening a link.

Re:The Truth about $35 Android Tablet from Indian

[zxking]

The device is actually based on a design from AllGo Embedded Systems, a Bangalore based company. Check it out here

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[obarthelemy]

well, you're parroting pointless nonsense too... does he at least use an iPhone/iPod, or do you have one single anecdote you use in all cases ?

Plus your reasonning is faulty, one counter example does not invalidate my statement.

BTW, I know how to use wkpedia and google, and how NOT to use them when I don't care ? As opposed to you, apparently, I'm not much into celebrity nerding.

Re:The Truth about $35 Android Tablet from Indian

[fly1ngtux]

Well, even I thought thats correct. But, apart from the plastic, there is nothing concrete to prove that they are the same. You can find my blog entry on this here: http://flyingtux.blogspot.com/2010/09/35-tablet.html

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[geekoid]

I am not a Apple fan, but you don't need a voice mail contract to get access to the marketplace, you could use wi-fi. Yeah, you need 3g it get it in more places then wi-fi, but there isn't anything anyone can do about that.

I mean, Apple has become much larger asses of late, but lets not spread misinformation.

Re:Sometimes Apple is cheaper

[rsborg]

I am not a Apple fan, but you don't need a voice mail contract to get access to the marketplace, you could use wi-fi. Yeah, you need 3g it get it in more places then wi-fi, but there isn't anything anyone can do about that.

Name one Android device that has access to Marketplace that you don't need a phone plan to buy. OHA requires devices to have phone capability to access marketplace:

Google hasn't officially given the go ahead for any hardware maker to install the Android Market app on a device that doesn't meet the minimum requirements -- which basically means you need to have a device with an accelerometer, WiFi, and phone capabilities.