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Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu 10.04
Barence writes "PC Pro has performed a comprehensive test of Windows 7 vs Ubuntu 10.04. They've tested and scored the two operating systems on a number of criteria, including usability, bundled apps, performance, compatibility and business. The final result is much closer than you might expect. 'Ubuntu is clearly an operating system on the rise,' PC Pro concludes. 'If we repeat this feature in a year's time, will it have closed the gap? We wouldn't bet against it.'"
is clearly the year of the linux desktop commercial success
and this post was brought for you to test your sarcasm-meter!
Blah blah sig blah blah blah irony blah blah
I remember hearing about this "Windows" thing back in the early part of this century and that it and another OS called "OS/2" were once competitors. I like antique software. It shows our humble beginnings.
Karma: Excellent. 15 moderator points expire sometime.
I have Windows 7 on our gaming boxes just to keep things simple...but I run Ubuntu on our laptops, for size and speed considerations. We also run Ubuntu on our HTPC.
They have their purposes...I couldn't imagine exclusively using only one or the other.
Living With a Nerd
My wife got a Win7 x64 laptop and none of the older Canon hardware (printers and scanners) supported this OS. After 2 hours of trying to make it work with all sorts of hacks posted in the bowels of the internet support forums, I tested the devices on my Ubuntu desktop. They worked fine.
The only app that she uses is Picasa and that works on Ubuntu. So I installed Ubuntu on her laptop and it works great. In the last 10 years, we've come full circle. If you want hardware support, you need Linux.
I just wish that I could have paid less for the laptop without the Windows tax.
Keep marketing linux as a "replacement" for windows and you guarantee to always fail. Market it for what it is - better for many types of situations, but definitely not a rsimple eplacement for windows any more than osx is.
Otherwise you're fighting the battle on the other side's home turf - and they're bigger and more entrenched.
And when people try ubuntu and realize that it is not necessarily a matter of it being a replacement os, they tar all linux distros with the same fail.
the games won't work on Unbuntu without trying to use Wine
Since when do SWF games such as FarmVille and Tetris Friends not work on Ubuntu?
In case of tl&dr, here's the summary:
Ubuntu wins by 3.04.
Go back to your Cheetos and WoW.
Trolling is a art,
It's quite interesting that PRICE is missing from the comparison. I'd say that based on their own scoring system, that would make it dead even!
Even among PC Pro’s technically literate readership, only 4% are running a Linux OS[...]
[...]then venture into Ubuntu’s equivalent of the command line – dubbed Terminal – and enter a couple of lines of code to start the installation. Hardly a user-friendly experience, and an unwanted throwback to the days of Windows 3.1.
Yeah...technical literacy at its finest...
It would be interesting to see some proper statistics on how many home users actually buy/run games on windows.
From my gut feeling it might fall both ways - it may be that a lot of people need the home computer to support DirectX games, as it is a must-have feature for myself.
Or it may be just as likely that most typical home-users actually just use the computers for Web+Word, and quite likely get their gaming done on sites like facebook (which has more daily-active players than the entire PC FPS+RTS+MMORPG sales combined) or on consoles - in which case they don't really care about the PC games and Wine.
Sad, but true.... I am not regular home user, i am actually a developer, but nevertheless, i also play a lot of games, and thus i am forced to have both OS........ In fact, i solved my problems by having a lots of VM's. Windows, Linux, you named it, i have it.
I'm a developer too, but I just have either another computer, or a removable drive with Windows on it that I can pop in when I need to use Microsoft's stuff.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
As a good geek, I've tried switching to Linux many times over the years. Every time has ended in frustration. Even putting aside all the games and software compatibility problems (and those are pretty frickin' significant), I also have to deal with a confusing variety of distros, poor documentation, and an arrogant support base (asking how to do something in Linux that you could do in Windows on a Linux support forum will evoke a "Obviously you don't belong here" blast of snobbery that would make the average high school head cheerleader blush). Ubuntu has helped with some of that, but it still suffers from pretty piss-poor documentation. And downloading and installing software, even using the built-in installer, is a confusing nightmare. With Windows, you download the Windows version, double-click it, and you're done. With Linux, it's often a mess of tar files, "Is this compatible with my distro?" And I *still* don't know the fucking difference between gnome and KDE, or why that should even be an issue.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Unfortunately Valve say there are no plans for a Linux version of Steam.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/23/valve-denies-having-a-linux-version-of-steam-in-the-works/
I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
> And your typical home user won't want it. Wrong. I have a very large family, most of whom are very typical home users, mostly computer illiterate - web, email, videos, and the occasional spreadsheet. My mother wants to surf the net, check her email, watch news video and view whatever pictures and video kids send her. She was always getting viruses on her Windows XP box, and after years of trying to keep her up and running I finally installed Firefox to get her used to the browser, and then a while later installed Ubuntu. I used a theme similar to XP, she loved it, and my workload dropped about 90%. She doesn't know Linux from Windows from a bag of frogs, and doesn't care as long as it works.
12:50 - press return.
Unfortunately Valve say there are no plans for a Linux version of Steam.
But Steam runs in Wine and so do a surprising number of Steam games; I was playing Left 4 Dead and Fallout 3 at the weekend in Ubuntu, for example.
And given the vast variation in Linux distros, you're probably better off releasing Windows games that are Wine-compatible than a Linux binary that won't run on Ubuntu 12.04 or Redhat 6.3.
Good lord, you couldn't find a more specialized "main reason"? If you want this functionality, install e.g. Gnome Do. Press Windows+Space and type anything, it finds and searches as you type among software and files, shows what it is/means/does, and the action that'll happen when you press enter. For example, if I type "bea" I get Netbeans IDE 6.8 and pressing enter runs it. Esc or clicking anywhere outside the popup makes it disappear. HTH.
True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
Every commercial Linux app I've seen has a deb available for Ubuntu/debian these days or at the very least a loki-type installer. Installing is as simple as double clicking on the file and typing in your password. Less of a hassle than Windows IMHO.
It's also nice that the package manager in Linux keeps everything up to date. Having 5 or 6 updaters always running in the background is a waste of resources and a massive security hole. That's a non-starter.
"Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
Cyclic Logic. Move up 3 parents.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
I have a very large family
I suppose this is typical.
What I'm inferring here is that you believe users simply don't care what OS they run. I agree, to a point. They care as much as it will be able to run things properly and without issue. The malware, well that's surely a point in Ubuntu's favor, for now. But what about the users that want to run some kind of specific app? Sure, there are often Linux replacements for things, but not everything is accessible from Ubuntu's repository. This leads to downloading arcane file types that need to be installed by typing a cryptic command into a terminal. Your typical home user is simply not going to do this, period. It's like a jump back to... heck, I dunno, it's more arcane than installing DOS programs (minus the TSR memory management thing).
Don't get me wrong, I run 10.04 netbook edition on my Eee, and I like it for the most part, but even as a savvy user, I have many more issues with it than I do with Windows. Flash pages crash more than occasionally, WiFi is still kind of weird, Most of the games won't even fit on the screen (seriously, why bother releasing a netbook edition with games if they aren't able to fit on a netbook screen?). Ubuntu has a very apparent lack of polish, and this is what will turn most users off.
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
I've tried Left4Dead 2, and Team Fortress 2 in Wine, and both of them run about 25-35 fps slower than the native Windows client. That simply doesn't cut it. It's putting good hardware to waste.
What you propose there is ludicrus. Native clients will always run faster than Wine. Not to mention that if a game is properly ported you don't have to worry about what distro you run. Go get a copy of Unreal Tournament, and install it on Ubuntuu 10.04. It installs just fine, and is 11 years old.
There is no need to make a "wine-compatible client" when OpenGL is just fine, will run better, and will be supported longer. Wine has gone through more fundamental changes than the basic structure of Linux. So while it might seem like a good short term idea to just make "wine compatible" games, what happens when the next wine version hits, and things aren't working properly anymore. Anyone who has used Wine enough will tell you that some older versions work better for certain games, etc.
I support Unix professionally (RHEL), and my work laptop is Ubuntu 10.04.
My home machine is Win7. Why? Flight Simulator, LOTRO, SimCity, Civilization, and several other games that either don't play at all or are a freaking pain to make work. CS4. A properly working scanner. Portable Apps (ironic, huh? Most are linux apps!). TrueCrypt (which works in Linux but is a PITA to deal with). HDMI support (including sound).
I like Ubuntu 10.04 a lot, and for me it's ideal for my laptop needs. Just doesn't hack it on my desktop. Funny how times have changed.
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
I have a small recording studio in which I run a 16-channel simultaneous recording firewire mixer. I use Adobe Audition 3 for my sessions. I can't really move to another platform because I already have so many recording sessions in this format (although, I don't really want to move, either -- I'm happy with Audition).
I recently purchased an i7 with Windows 7 64-bit. I tell you, it does everything I've ever asked it to do, and it handles the incoming 16-channels flawlessly.
I don't think I would trust this set up on Ubuntu. For one, my firewire mixer simply would not work with Ubuntu (natively). And if it could work in WINE, I don't see how it is better than what I have now. Isn't it just likely to introduce hiccups?
"They said I probly shouldn't fly with just one eye," "I am Bender. Please insert girder."
I did a write up like this back in 1997 with Win95 and some flavor of Red Hat. It has been thirteen years and the basic arguments still haven't changed.
"I'm not a quack, I'm a mad scientist! There's a difference." - Dr. Cockroach
It's also a question of familiarity. I also think Windows 7 is the best version I've ever used, but I also think Ubuntu blows it away for usability as I've now been using Linux for so long. With Windows 7 the number of dialog boxes that pop up drive me mad, the number of things in the sys tray that keep asking me if I want to update, the number of simple apps that it misses that I can't get without having to pay for (screenshots, etc), the bloated anti-virus/spyware you end up installing, having to hunt around on sites for drivers that don't get found, etc.
If all you know is Windows then Win7 is a great update, but then that is more to do with previous versions not being very good. If you are a gamer, then Win7 is pretty much your only choice. The sheer wealth of free software, coupled with being so customisable, makes Ubuntu already superior for others though. Until Win7 gets the equivalent of apt-get and a similar size software repository, it's not yet there for me in terms of desktop use.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
I don't understand how this comment is in the least bit Insightful. It's incredibly poor and short-sighted.
Sometimes it's useful to know what it's like understanding the Linux experience in fresh eyes. There are things that pop out that you wouldn't really consider if you're too used to Linux or too unfamiliar with Windows. Say, for example, what popped out at me was when they mentioned that they had a hard time because they couldn't maximize windows by dragging them to the top of the screen (which must be some new-fangled Win7 functionality and is completely foreign to me as I haven't touched Windows since XP SP2). They went so far as to take off major points for this at the end when they would easily have adapted away if they bothered using it for more than a month but is still important in the first impressions of a complete newbie. Or how they actually were impressed with Rhythmbox and the fuctionality which surprised me. Or how they said it was impressive how easy it was to install, which is definitely worth a few bonus points for Ubuntu. Or how Ubuntu provides some nice features (Ubuntu One, Software Center) which new users seem to like and don't have alternatives for on Windows. Or how they easily adapted to new software alternatives (like Evolution vs. Outlook or Rhythmbox vs. WMP).
There's actually a ton of useful information for understanding what it's like for new users. In fact, they never even once lamented that they couldn't run games on it, which just goes to show that it's not the end-all-be-all for every user as you suggest. Try opening your mind a little.
I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
There's only 2 ways to get people to switch to Ubuntu:
1) (Not likely) Make Windows games playable on it.
2) (Possible!) Change the standard directory names to things longer than 3 letters. Even if you're a hyper-involved PC-user (building and fixing your own and others with tons of tweaks), the dive into the various versions of linux is a complete vocabulary shock simply because nothing says what it is. Programs are oddly named and folder titles are super-abbreviated.
> I have to say that Adobe Flash is horrible on Linux, it uses far more CPU time and its not as smooth either.
Flash is no worse on Linux than any other platform. This includes Windows despite all of the nonsense about how
the new versions of Flash allegedly are better at supporting things like PureVideo. I was trying this out for
myself just last night and was sorely disappointed by all of the hype that led me to believe that Windows would
do better in this regard.
It does not use far more CPU and it is not any less smooth.
Linux is also far less likely to completely freeze as Flash is having it's usual problems.
Yes, I decided to go back to playing Hulu in Linux because doing so in Windows 7 was becoming painful and annoying.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
The only real barrier at this point to having your average n00b run Linux is probably lack of support from Apple.
The fact that Apple is actively hostile to accessing their devices outside of iTunes means more people are driven to keep WINDOWS around.
Not being able to deal with their iPod or iPhone is more likely a show stopper than games at this point.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I converted my wife to Ubuntu after the 8th virus in 3 months. I did buy Crossover Pro for Photoshop, but that's about it. She loves how much faster her laptop is. She games on Facebook, uses Evolution for email, and OpenOffice for writing, etc. She's got Hulu Desktop installed, and will dock her laptop to our home theater system and watch TV that way. The number of "Hey hon, can you look at this?" type things have gone down incredibly. She's been on Ubuntu for about 18 months now, and can't fathom going back. So, I don't think that your point of, "Granny just stopped asking for help" is really valid. People are people, if you mess up their PC, you'll hear about it at every family gathering.
The malware, well that's surely a point in Ubuntu's favor, for now.
Well, unfortunately the writers of most malware won't give us the source, so we can't just do a recompile, but you could try running it under Wine if you really need it.
>>>Perhaps they should do a Mac OS vs. Ubuntu Linux comparison.
Heck I'll do it myself. Ubuntu 10.0 and Mac OS 10.6
usability - 7 - 7 (tie)
entertainment and bundled aps 8 - 6 (Mac scores same as WIN7)
performance and mobility - 9 - 9 (tie)
drivers and compatibility - 7 - 7 (tie)
business - 7 - 6 (mac not as good as ubuntu)
TOTAL 38 Ubuntu 35 Mac
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
the number of things in the sys tray that keep asking me if I want to update
In windows 7 you have fine control over what gets to notify you in the sys tray
the number of simple apps that it misses that I can't get without having to pay for
There is plenty of freeware out there for windows as well. I'm not sure what your problem is with screenshots, but that's what snipping tool is for
bloated anti-virus/spyware you end up installing
Don't go with Norton/Mcaffe. They are indeed bloated and suck. There are a number of free anti-virus solutions which are relatively slim, including MS Security Essentials, AVG, and Avast
having to hunt around on sites for drivers that don't get found
Most drivers are found through windows update these days. If they're not there, Windows Action Center will usually link you right to the MFG download page. If not you can certainly go there yourself and download it. From my experience, I've had more trouble with missing drivers in Linux
Until Win7 gets the equivalent of apt-get and a similar size software repository, it's not yet there for me in terms of desktop use.
People who use windows don't want apt-get. Most of us prefer a GUI to a CLI. Also, the lack of software, free or otherwise, is not a problem Windows has. It might be nice to have a centralized location to find it, but that approach has it's own problems, and it's honestly not something Windows users are clamoring for anyway.
And given the vast variation in Linux distros, you're probably better off releasing Windows games that are Wine-compatible than a Linux binary that won't run on Ubuntu 12.04 or Redhat 6.3.
I currently use Arch Linux, and I've previously used Ubuntu and Linux Mint. Every single Linux game I've tried, even the Humble Indie Bundle as well as windows games using Wine, they all work exactly the same on each platform. Linux distributions aren't all that different as you'd think; they all have the same basic things like ALSA, X, some desktop environment like GNOME or KDE or XFCE, usually OpenGL/SDL support, and Python. Have all of that, and virtually every game for Linux will run on any type of setup you have so long as you have these basic things.
"Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
I've tried Left4Dead 2, and Team Fortress 2 in Wine, and both of them run about 25-35 fps slower than the native Windows client. That simply doesn't cut it. It's putting good hardware to waste. What you propose there is ludicrus. Native clients will always run faster than Wine.
The difference is not because you're running a non-native game, it's because Microsoft has put a lot more resources into DirectX than the open source community has been able to put into reimplementing D3D and 3D game optimizations in OpenGL. WINE is not an emulator, code runs at native speed so if you optimized the native performance to be on par with DirectX so would WINE. No, don't hold your breath for that though.
So while it might seem like a good short term idea to just make "wine compatible" games, what happens when the next wine version hits, and things aren't working properly anymore. Anyone who has used Wine enough will tell you that some older versions work better for certain games, etc.
WINE has to support many binary applications that depend on all sorts of quirky behavior in Windows, and that is hard. Also they're often doing black box debugging trying to figure out what went wrong. If someone takes a little effort with the source code, making it do things the "right" way and being able to trace what happens in the application too they can achieve much with little effort.
Don't get me wrong, I don't suggest WINE is a good place to start. But very often you have an existing Windows code base, or cross platform support has been scrapped in the initial release. I can kinda see they want to know if it's a hit or flop first in order to commit as little as possible, rather than having spent money on a flop and ports of it.
At least if you're talking about somewhat older games it's possible you have a newer graphics card where it doesn't matter that Linux is 30 fps slower because it's 30 fps slower than 200 fps. Not so great if you want the latest FPS to run at max speed, but many RTS/TBS/adventure/sim other games do fine with reduced performance.
Don't get me wrong, I want native games. But having some semi-official or official WINE support is a huge step up from not recognizing other OSes at all. Don't chew out the people that are at least trying to make a little effort for not doing enough.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Configure? There is nothing to configure. Yes, I know winecfg, but I've never needed it. Just install it and double-click an EXE like you would on Windows.
Hell, it even integrates itself as binfmt_misc or whatever it's called: I can call Windows programs from the command line as ./foo.exe.
Proud member of the Ferengi Socialist Party.
As long as Ubuntu can't use iTunes (and no, not some other content mall that doesn't have all that iTunes has), Ubuntu can't compete with Windows for the home user market, or probably the school market, or even for a lot of the business market.
Yes, Apple's content monopoly is the key to protecting Windows' OS monopoly. The world is as strange as it is round.
--
make install -not war
Compatibility is the goal of Wine. They spend most of their time fixing bugs caused by the "undocumented features" in the Windows APIs.