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Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu 10.04

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the race-is-on dept.

Barence writes "PC Pro has performed a comprehensive test of Windows 7 vs Ubuntu 10.04. They've tested and scored the two operating systems on a number of criteria, including usability, bundled apps, performance, compatibility and business. The final result is much closer than you might expect. 'Ubuntu is clearly an operating system on the rise,' PC Pro concludes. 'If we repeat this feature in a year's time, will it have closed the gap? We wouldn't bet against it.'"

100 of 702 comments (clear)

  1. Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because when it comes to software for most home users, well, the games won't work on Unbuntu without trying to use Wine, etc, etc.

    And your typical home user won't want it.

    Nothing to see here.

    1. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by tepples · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the games won't work on Unbuntu without trying to use Wine

      Since when do SWF games such as FarmVille and Tetris Friends not work on Ubuntu?

    2. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by Peeteriz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It would be interesting to see some proper statistics on how many home users actually buy/run games on windows.

      From my gut feeling it might fall both ways - it may be that a lot of people need the home computer to support DirectX games, as it is a must-have feature for myself.

      Or it may be just as likely that most typical home-users actually just use the computers for Web+Word, and quite likely get their gaming done on sites like facebook (which has more daily-active players than the entire PC FPS+RTS+MMORPG sales combined) or on consoles - in which case they don't really care about the PC games and Wine.

    3. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sad, but true.... I am not regular home user, i am actually a developer, but nevertheless, i also play a lot of games, and thus i am forced to have both OS........ In fact, i solved my problems by having a lots of VM's. Windows, Linux, you named it, i have it.

      I'm a developer too, but I just have either another computer, or a removable drive with Windows on it that I can pop in when I need to use Microsoft's stuff.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    4. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by click2005 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Unfortunately Valve say there are no plans for a Linux version of Steam.

      http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/23/valve-denies-having-a-linux-version-of-steam-in-the-works/

      --
      I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
    5. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by kalpol · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > And your typical home user won't want it. Wrong. I have a very large family, most of whom are very typical home users, mostly computer illiterate - web, email, videos, and the occasional spreadsheet. My mother wants to surf the net, check her email, watch news video and view whatever pictures and video kids send her. She was always getting viruses on her Windows XP box, and after years of trying to keep her up and running I finally installed Firefox to get her used to the browser, and then a while later installed Ubuntu. I used a theme similar to XP, she loved it, and my workload dropped about 90%. She doesn't know Linux from Windows from a bag of frogs, and doesn't care as long as it works.

      --
      12:50 - press return.
    6. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by 0123456 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately Valve say there are no plans for a Linux version of Steam.

      But Steam runs in Wine and so do a surprising number of Steam games; I was playing Left 4 Dead and Fallout 3 at the weekend in Ubuntu, for example.

      And given the vast variation in Linux distros, you're probably better off releasing Windows games that are Wine-compatible than a Linux binary that won't run on Ubuntu 12.04 or Redhat 6.3.

    7. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by gparent · · Score: 2

      There's a lot less holding me back from Linux than before (I'm pretty much down to SC2 and VS 2010 for the major apps), so I'll probably switch within next year. But what I _don't_ want to do is to dual-boot. I switch tasks frequently, and rebooting frequently is a pain.

    8. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by VGPowerlord · · Score: 4, Funny

      Unfortunately Valve say there are no plans for a Linux version of Steam.

      But Steam runs in Wine and so do a surprising number of Steam games; I was playing Left 4 Dead and Fallout 3 at the weekend in Ubuntu, for example.

      And given the vast variation in Linux distros, you're probably better off releasing Windows games that are Wine-compatible than a Linux binary that won't run on Ubuntu 12.04 or Redhat 6.3.

      Cyclic Logic. Move up 3 parents.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    9. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes they do.

      A huge percentage of PCs aren't sold to homes, but to businesses. While Ubuntu may not be attractive to businesses tied to Windows-specific software, it could be extremely attractive to businesses mostly run off of web applications. Corporate IT departments who are considering making the switch for some of their users would be able to make use of studies like this to help convince upper management that there's little downside and a significant cost savings.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    10. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by pspahn · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have a very large family

      I suppose this is typical.

      What I'm inferring here is that you believe users simply don't care what OS they run. I agree, to a point. They care as much as it will be able to run things properly and without issue. The malware, well that's surely a point in Ubuntu's favor, for now. But what about the users that want to run some kind of specific app? Sure, there are often Linux replacements for things, but not everything is accessible from Ubuntu's repository. This leads to downloading arcane file types that need to be installed by typing a cryptic command into a terminal. Your typical home user is simply not going to do this, period. It's like a jump back to... heck, I dunno, it's more arcane than installing DOS programs (minus the TSR memory management thing).

      Don't get me wrong, I run 10.04 netbook edition on my Eee, and I like it for the most part, but even as a savvy user, I have many more issues with it than I do with Windows. Flash pages crash more than occasionally, WiFi is still kind of weird, Most of the games won't even fit on the screen (seriously, why bother releasing a netbook edition with games if they aren't able to fit on a netbook screen?). Ubuntu has a very apparent lack of polish, and this is what will turn most users off.

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    11. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by Beelzebud · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've tried Left4Dead 2, and Team Fortress 2 in Wine, and both of them run about 25-35 fps slower than the native Windows client. That simply doesn't cut it. It's putting good hardware to waste.

      What you propose there is ludicrus. Native clients will always run faster than Wine. Not to mention that if a game is properly ported you don't have to worry about what distro you run. Go get a copy of Unreal Tournament, and install it on Ubuntuu 10.04. It installs just fine, and is 11 years old.

      There is no need to make a "wine-compatible client" when OpenGL is just fine, will run better, and will be supported longer. Wine has gone through more fundamental changes than the basic structure of Linux. So while it might seem like a good short term idea to just make "wine compatible" games, what happens when the next wine version hits, and things aren't working properly anymore. Anyone who has used Wine enough will tell you that some older versions work better for certain games, etc.

    12. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by WinterSolstice · · Score: 4, Informative

      I support Unix professionally (RHEL), and my work laptop is Ubuntu 10.04.

      My home machine is Win7. Why? Flight Simulator, LOTRO, SimCity, Civilization, and several other games that either don't play at all or are a freaking pain to make work. CS4. A properly working scanner. Portable Apps (ironic, huh? Most are linux apps!). TrueCrypt (which works in Linux but is a PITA to deal with). HDMI support (including sound).

      I like Ubuntu 10.04 a lot, and for me it's ideal for my laptop needs. Just doesn't hack it on my desktop. Funny how times have changed.

      --
      An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
    13. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by zombieChan51 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Use a Virtual machine

    14. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by elashish14 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't understand how this comment is in the least bit Insightful. It's incredibly poor and short-sighted.

      Sometimes it's useful to know what it's like understanding the Linux experience in fresh eyes. There are things that pop out that you wouldn't really consider if you're too used to Linux or too unfamiliar with Windows. Say, for example, what popped out at me was when they mentioned that they had a hard time because they couldn't maximize windows by dragging them to the top of the screen (which must be some new-fangled Win7 functionality and is completely foreign to me as I haven't touched Windows since XP SP2). They went so far as to take off major points for this at the end when they would easily have adapted away if they bothered using it for more than a month but is still important in the first impressions of a complete newbie. Or how they actually were impressed with Rhythmbox and the fuctionality which surprised me. Or how they said it was impressive how easy it was to install, which is definitely worth a few bonus points for Ubuntu. Or how Ubuntu provides some nice features (Ubuntu One, Software Center) which new users seem to like and don't have alternatives for on Windows. Or how they easily adapted to new software alternatives (like Evolution vs. Outlook or Rhythmbox vs. WMP).

      There's actually a ton of useful information for understanding what it's like for new users. In fact, they never even once lamented that they couldn't run games on it, which just goes to show that it's not the end-all-be-all for every user as you suggest. Try opening your mind a little.

      --
      I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
    15. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > I have to say that Adobe Flash is horrible on Linux, it uses far more CPU time and its not as smooth either.

      Flash is no worse on Linux than any other platform. This includes Windows despite all of the nonsense about how
      the new versions of Flash allegedly are better at supporting things like PureVideo. I was trying this out for
      myself just last night and was sorely disappointed by all of the hype that led me to believe that Windows would
      do better in this regard.

      It does not use far more CPU and it is not any less smooth.

      Linux is also far less likely to completely freeze as Flash is having it's usual problems.

      Yes, I decided to go back to playing Hulu in Linux because doing so in Windows 7 was becoming painful and annoying.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    16. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The only real barrier at this point to having your average n00b run Linux is probably lack of support from Apple.

      The fact that Apple is actively hostile to accessing their devices outside of iTunes means more people are driven to keep WINDOWS around.

      Not being able to deal with their iPod or iPhone is more likely a show stopper than games at this point.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    17. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by RebootKid · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I converted my wife to Ubuntu after the 8th virus in 3 months. I did buy Crossover Pro for Photoshop, but that's about it. She loves how much faster her laptop is. She games on Facebook, uses Evolution for email, and OpenOffice for writing, etc. She's got Hulu Desktop installed, and will dock her laptop to our home theater system and watch TV that way. The number of "Hey hon, can you look at this?" type things have gone down incredibly. She's been on Ubuntu for about 18 months now, and can't fathom going back. So, I don't think that your point of, "Granny just stopped asking for help" is really valid. People are people, if you mess up their PC, you'll hear about it at every family gathering.

    18. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Usability: The need to use the command line for installing custom proprietary software is a shortcoming ...and what would those be?

      Skype?
      2nd Life?
      Osmos?
      Bridge Construction Set?
      Oracle?
      Nero?
      Robin Hood?

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    19. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 4, Funny

      The malware, well that's surely a point in Ubuntu's favor, for now.

      Well, unfortunately the writers of most malware won't give us the source, so we can't just do a recompile, but you could try running it under Wine if you really need it.

    20. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by tlhIngan · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wine is a nightmare to configure. The regular home user isn't going to put up with it. End of discussion.

      So you buy something like CrossOver, which is WINE internally but with nice UI tools and stupidly simple setup.

      There's a reason why CodeWeavers can stay in business selling WINE (and donating some profits to WINE/hiring WINE devs).

      It was pretty trivial to set up last time I tried it - install their package, run it and I had Steam running in no time at all. Ditto getting HL/HL2 running.

    21. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by colinrichardday · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Native clients will always run faster than Wine.

      Why?

    22. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >>>Perhaps they should do a Mac OS vs. Ubuntu Linux comparison.

      Heck I'll do it myself. Ubuntu 10.0 and Mac OS 10.6
      usability - 7 - 7 (tie)
      entertainment and bundled aps 8 - 6 (Mac scores same as WIN7)
      performance and mobility - 9 - 9 (tie)
      drivers and compatibility - 7 - 7 (tie)
      business - 7 - 6 (mac not as good as ubuntu)

      TOTAL 38 Ubuntu 35 Mac

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    23. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by Beelzebud · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well for one, if a game is made with Direct X, it's going to run faster with Direct X, than something that translates it to OpenGL on the fly, which in the case of Left 4 Dead or TF2 is exactly what is going on. The Windows version of those games uses Direct X, not OpenGL.

      Second, even if a game has an OpenGL renderer (Like World of Warcraft), you still have issues like the hardware cursor to deal with.

    24. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by supersloshy · · Score: 3, Informative

      And given the vast variation in Linux distros, you're probably better off releasing Windows games that are Wine-compatible than a Linux binary that won't run on Ubuntu 12.04 or Redhat 6.3.

      I currently use Arch Linux, and I've previously used Ubuntu and Linux Mint. Every single Linux game I've tried, even the Humble Indie Bundle as well as windows games using Wine, they all work exactly the same on each platform. Linux distributions aren't all that different as you'd think; they all have the same basic things like ALSA, X, some desktop environment like GNOME or KDE or XFCE, usually OpenGL/SDL support, and Python. Have all of that, and virtually every game for Linux will run on any type of setup you have so long as you have these basic things.

      --
      "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    25. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by Kjella · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've tried Left4Dead 2, and Team Fortress 2 in Wine, and both of them run about 25-35 fps slower than the native Windows client. That simply doesn't cut it. It's putting good hardware to waste. What you propose there is ludicrus. Native clients will always run faster than Wine.

      The difference is not because you're running a non-native game, it's because Microsoft has put a lot more resources into DirectX than the open source community has been able to put into reimplementing D3D and 3D game optimizations in OpenGL. WINE is not an emulator, code runs at native speed so if you optimized the native performance to be on par with DirectX so would WINE. No, don't hold your breath for that though.

      So while it might seem like a good short term idea to just make "wine compatible" games, what happens when the next wine version hits, and things aren't working properly anymore. Anyone who has used Wine enough will tell you that some older versions work better for certain games, etc.

      WINE has to support many binary applications that depend on all sorts of quirky behavior in Windows, and that is hard. Also they're often doing black box debugging trying to figure out what went wrong. If someone takes a little effort with the source code, making it do things the "right" way and being able to trace what happens in the application too they can achieve much with little effort.

      Don't get me wrong, I don't suggest WINE is a good place to start. But very often you have an existing Windows code base, or cross platform support has been scrapped in the initial release. I can kinda see they want to know if it's a hit or flop first in order to commit as little as possible, rather than having spent money on a flop and ports of it.

      At least if you're talking about somewhat older games it's possible you have a newer graphics card where it doesn't matter that Linux is 30 fps slower because it's 30 fps slower than 200 fps. Not so great if you want the latest FPS to run at max speed, but many RTS/TBS/adventure/sim other games do fine with reduced performance.

      Don't get me wrong, I want native games. But having some semi-official or official WINE support is a huge step up from not recognizing other OSes at all. Don't chew out the people that are at least trying to make a little effort for not doing enough.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    26. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by the_womble · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is very little that is not in the Ubuntu repos.

      This leads to downloading arcane file types that need to be installed by typing a cryptic command into a terminal.

      Download a debian package or a binary installer and double click on it in the file manager.

      If that fails download the binary and click on it and it runs (Skype for those versions of Linux for which a package is not provided, for example)

      The remaining stuff that needs to be compiled is usually aimed at geeks anyway.

    27. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by leromarinvit · · Score: 3, Informative

      Configure? There is nothing to configure. Yes, I know winecfg, but I've never needed it. Just install it and double-click an EXE like you would on Windows.

      Hell, it even integrates itself as binfmt_misc or whatever it's called: I can call Windows programs from the command line as ./foo.exe.

      --
      Proud member of the Ferengi Socialist Party.
    28. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by Smauler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      DRM is here to stay... Intrusive DRM is not. The reason why Steam is successful is because it gives loads of advantages over previous delivery methods. I had windows go all blue screen on me, complete reinstall needed, a while back (it was my fault, I was running Europa Universalis, and the entire OS went kaput... I wondered what had happened, until I noticed I'd pulled out one of the SATA data cables of my striped primary drives with my toe - the case is open because cooling is not optimal for the graphics card... I even laughed at the time). I just reinstalled (wasn't laughing so much then), logged in, and my games were available again. It has a few disadvantages too, but most of them are small. The disadvantages are less bad than the old days with lost CD-Keys, etcs, IMO.

      Intrusive DRM, and DRM that requires permanent online prescence will never work.

    29. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The real kicker about this is that Microsoft identified this exact issue about a decade ago, when they realized that web applications would eventually make their dominance of the desktop less useful than it once was. So far, they haven't been able to do anything about it, for several reasons:
        - Firefox largely put an end to the IE-only websites that were popular back in the day. This stunted Microsoft's attempts to control HTML and Javascript and add incompatible extensions to it.
        - Linux+Apache provided all the software for anybody anywhere to set up a cheap webserver or even Java application server. That solved the problem of Microsoft trying to control Internet protocols by controlling the server side.
        - The rise of broadband and AJAX meant that desktop apps aren't that much faster than web apps.
        - Apple's desktops and laptops have been rising in popularity.
        - And of course, the efforts of Google to make darn good web apps.
        - Gnome / KDE providing progressively more viable and easy-to-use alternatives to Windows.

      So that leaves Microsoft Windows often as a tool to access your awesome webapps, which can be relatively easily replaced by OS X or Ubuntu. Totally anecdotal evidence, I've had friends over who wanted to borrow my machine, and I happened to have Linux w/Gnome up and running, which they had no trouble using at all.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    30. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by daveime · · Score: 2, Funny

      Performance is not a priority for Wine

      Makes you wonder exactly what IS a priority for Wine ?

      Hell, if we're playing that game, I have an artificial intelligence program that 100% mimics the human brain. It might take 25 years to emulate 1 microsecond of REAL brain activity, but performance is not a priority with my software. "Buy One Now (tm)".

    31. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by Locutus · · Score: 2, Funny

      that is why the iPhone never took off, it didn't run Microsoft software. Oh, and it has no software of its own and no games either.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    32. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by Smauler · · Score: 2, Funny

      I converted my wife to Ubuntu after the 8th virus in 3 months.

      So now she can't contact her friends and get more viruses?

      Oh, you meant _computer_ viruses......

      (sorry :P)

    33. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by interval1066 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm no windows fan, been using Linux almost exclusively never the less, there was nothing in my original statement that isn't true. My wife can handle Windows. Asking her to try using wine would lead to hours of me looking up and trying to solve issues with WINE configuration. Done it before. never again.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    34. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by pugugly · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Depends. For a lot of non-gaming backward compatibility purposes Wine is darn spiffy and works great out of the box.

      Even in Gaming a lot depends on what you're running; again older retrogaming is good.

      All that said, it's a nice tool that drastically expands the software available in Linux, a particularly useful tool when there's a nice utility from Windows that you're used to and want to stick with till you see something better, not an all around solution. If bleeding edge gaming is your priority, assuming Wine will solve the problem is foolish. Dual Boot.

      Pug

      --
      An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
    35. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by Ammishdave · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Compatibility is the goal of Wine. They spend most of their time fixing bugs caused by the "undocumented features" in the Windows APIs.

    36. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I clicked on wine in the ubuntu software installer, then I put my Starcraft CD in the drive and played it. Same deal DiabloII and the few other games I play on PC.

    37. Re:Comparisons like this don't mean squat... by HermMunster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm late to the party here. But as far as the usability issues, at least the first part, he was wrong on all counts. When I try to run adobe AIR on any computer I have to first install it after downloading. If Adobe can't get their system set up properly and provide a proper .deb file that's not Ubuntu's fault. That is after all a 3rd party proprietary product. When it comes to workspaces that is pure preference. He tries to make it out as if that's a usability feature but in reality you can just shut it off and use a single desktop. As far as pinning to the task bar, well, that's brand new in Win7 and hasn't been part of it for what now, 2 decades? Not really proper way to judge a budding OS. And, as far as docks go, there are plenty of them for Linux.

      Google chrome for windows violates the interface rules for Linux. It essentially goes against the environment. The buttons on the left are no different than the buttons on the left under Mac OS X. Switching the buttons back to the right is a trivial task in Ubuntu. There are even simple one click solutions to get it done.

      Microsoft paid the organization that holds the patent on MP3s for the right to include it into all copies of their OS. They were sued by that organization and lost, loosing over a billion dollars, when they stopped paying because they stated they assumed the license was in perpetuity. So, the only reason it is there is because Microsoft paid to have it there. In versions of Windows, prior to Vista, you had to pay for the ability to play back DVDs. In Linux it is no different. But, if you attempt to play a DVD or an mp3 the first time the system will prompt you to install the proper codec with the warning that it is proprietary and might require you to pay for a license.

      If you want glitz without the depth (things used to be different) you can install Amarok. It has plenty of glitz, though it has changed to the point that it disappoints those who used it before the 2.x release.

      No PCs come with a free edition of Office Starter. Every copy is a trial edition. Usually giving you 30 days and then you get to pay for it if you like it. Having a few models come with this is sort of silly in comparison to a full featured office product that is free and pre-installed.

      Having no Linux version of iTunes is not the fault of Linux, nor Ubuntu. Having encrypted information that is supposed to only be decrypted by iTunes is also not the fault of Linux. The iPhone issue is a non-starter. As far as an iPod goes you can use gtdpod to take full advantage and not have to deal with Apple's rather assuming iTunes player.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
  2. 2011 the year of linux on the desktop? by youn · · Score: 2, Funny

    2099 year of linux on the desktop? ;)

    one day...

    --
    Never antropomorphize computers, they do not like that :p
  3. This by Xiph · · Score: 3, Funny

    is clearly the year of the linux desktop commercial success

    and this post was brought for you to test your sarcasm-meter!

    --
    Blah blah sig blah blah blah irony blah blah
  4. I've heard of this "Windows" before by thomasdz · · Score: 5, Funny

    I remember hearing about this "Windows" thing back in the early part of this century and that it and another OS called "OS/2" were once competitors. I like antique software. It shows our humble beginnings.

    --
    Karma: Excellent. 15 moderator points expire sometime.
  5. They have their uses by Pojut · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have Windows 7 on our gaming boxes just to keep things simple...but I run Ubuntu on our laptops, for size and speed considerations. We also run Ubuntu on our HTPC.

    They have their purposes...I couldn't imagine exclusively using only one or the other.

    --
    Living With a Nerd
    1. Re:They have their uses by Nerdfest · · Score: 2, Informative

      I run Ubuntu on my day-to-day home laptop. It does everything I need, but I generally don't play games on it. I do have Windows 7 installed in a VM, just in case, but I find the only time I use it is every 2 or 3 months to update security patches. (I'm always astounded at how long those things take to run). Perhaps it's just that I'm used to Ubuntu now, but I find almost *everything* easier to do in Linux. The application repositories and software centre are probably what people should show off when introducing friends to Ubuntu ... those who like the "App Store" concept should love it. In 10.10, there's a few changes coming that should make it a little "prettier" as well.

  6. No Drivers for Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My wife got a Win7 x64 laptop and none of the older Canon hardware (printers and scanners) supported this OS. After 2 hours of trying to make it work with all sorts of hacks posted in the bowels of the internet support forums, I tested the devices on my Ubuntu desktop. They worked fine.

    The only app that she uses is Picasa and that works on Ubuntu. So I installed Ubuntu on her laptop and it works great. In the last 10 years, we've come full circle. If you want hardware support, you need Linux.

    I just wish that I could have paid less for the laptop without the Windows tax.

    1. Re:No Drivers for Windows by Pojut · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At this point, most devices have been updated to at least officially support Vista (and, by proxy, 7)...how old is your Cannon stuff?

      I wouldn't use your experience as a condemnation of Windows 7 so much as a reason why, in your case, ubuntu is a better choice. Still, how old is your Cannon hardware?

      --
      Living With a Nerd
    2. Re:No Drivers for Windows by alen · · Score: 2, Informative

      yet my WIndows 7 desktop and laptop seems to work with the 10 year old laserjet 4 printers on our network using ancient drivers

    3. Re:No Drivers for Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      how old is your Cannon hardware?

      About 700 years.

    4. Re:No Drivers for Windows by Missing.Matter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      At this point, most devices have been updated to at least officially support Vista (and, by proxy, 7)

      In general, yes that is true. However, printer and scanner manufacturers have been notorious with their lack of legacy support for Windows 7/Vista, let alone 64 bit versions. Sure, their new scanners and printers have full support and work fine, but if your printer is more than a few years old (released before Vista) you're very lucky if you 32 bit drivers which enable even half the functionality.

      I wonder if this is a conscious decision by the manufacturers, who think you'll blame the OS for your problems, and that you're more likely to buy a new printer than convert to an entirely new OS. After all, the printer worked fine until you got a new computer! Honestly, that doesn't seem so far fetched to me.

    5. Re:No Drivers for Windows by mathimus1863 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had a similar experience. My girlfriend got a free HP or Canon printer (I don't remember which) with her laptop. Amusingly, her laptop came with Windows 7 and couldn't actually use the printer that came with it. We installed drivers from CD, downloaded drivers, tried troubleshooting... we couldn't get it to work. As a test, I booted an Ubuntu live CD, and it worked within 10s of boot.

      Hardware support has definitely become a positive aspect of Ubuntu, no longer the pain in the ass that it used to be for generic Linux. Admittedly, if there's no hardware support, it's a mess to get it... but it seems that there's a massive amount of native support already there, including the default PDF printer which I couldn't live without.

    6. Re:No Drivers for Windows by SwedishPenguin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's because the HP LaserJet 4 was built during a time when the art of using standards such as PostScript and PCL had still not been forgotten. Anything from the past 20 years will work with that printer...

  7. Taking bets? I'll bet against it. by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We wouldn't bet against it.

    Keep marketing linux as a "replacement" for windows and you guarantee to always fail. Market it for what it is - better for many types of situations, but definitely not a rsimple eplacement for windows any more than osx is.

    Otherwise you're fighting the battle on the other side's home turf - and they're bigger and more entrenched.

    And when people try ubuntu and realize that it is not necessarily a matter of it being a replacement os, they tar all linux distros with the same fail.

    1. Re:Taking bets? I'll bet against it. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We wouldn't bet against it.

      Keep marketing linux as a "replacement" for windows and you guarantee to always fail. Market it for what it is - better for many types of situations, but definitely not a rsimple eplacement for windows any more than osx is.

      Otherwise you're fighting the battle on the other side's home turf - and they're bigger and more entrenched.

      And when people try ubuntu and realize that it is not necessarily a matter of it being a replacement os, they tar all linux distros with the same fail.

      Well, as more and more applications that people typically use start moving off the computer and into the "cloud" (whatever the hell that means at any given time) the superiority of one desktop OS over another will be less of an issue. Take my girlfriend for instance: she basically uses a lot of online services of one kind or another, although she prefers Thunderbird for her email, doesn't really care for Chrome so I leave her on Firefox. So far she's been through Windows 98, Windows 2000 and Windows XP, Mepis, OpenSUSE and Ubuntu ... and barely even noticed it. "Dear, did you upgrade my computer again? It looks a little different." Granted, I made the effort to port all her bookmarks over and make her desktops look similar, but the point is that for a lot of people the operating system is starting to become transparent, or nearly so. If she can get to her browser and her email, she's a happy person. God help me if she can't.

      That is what has always terrified Microsoft: the true commoditization of the desktop operating system.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Taking bets? I'll bet against it. by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Insightful
      And yet, there's always the "there's one application" crowd who you simply cannot convince - they're not the market right now, and we shouldn't apologize for it, but rather embrace that as a fact.

      It's like for me - I can't see myself switching to Windows because I have a lot of those "one applications" that work far better under a *nix environment. And even if Windows were to eventually offer "equal functionality", why should I change. If someone says you should switch restaurants because some other one is "just as good", that's not a reason, and you'd tell them as much - and it cuts both ways.

      Slowly, the areas where Windows is better are being whittled away, and the superiority of linux in other areas will make a difference, but for many people it has to be a significant advantage, or they won't do it because (1) they have better things to do with their time, and (2) the perceived benefits are less than the perceived risks. Inertia is more than a law of physics.

      Your gf wouldn't have switched on her own - you had to do it. That sort of proves my point, no?

    3. Re:Taking bets? I'll bet against it. by FinchWorld · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Keep marketing linux as a "replacement" for windows and you guarantee to always fail.

      But windows does, for the most part, what 90% of the users out there need, even if it doesn't do it so well. If Linux doesn't replace this functionality, they won't want it.

      Graphic cards are a recurring problem, though largely not the fault of linux devs. But heavy reliance on the CLI keeps out most out. Even with ubuntu you'll likely need to do something that requires the CLI, my current ubuntu headache is changing the refresh rate using the open raedon drivers (9600xt AGP) which is causing a flicker on my monitor, and have found X has changed since 9.04.

      Whilst ubuntu would do most my parents needs, email (they use thunderbird on windows), youtube/browsing (Flash seems alot better and they use firefox on windows), word processing (They already use open office, once i made it default to saving to the .doc format etc.) but a flickering monitor? That just wouldn't do.

      --
      "I may be full of crap about this game, and I may be wrong, and that's fine." -Jack Thompson
    4. Re:Taking bets? I'll bet against it. by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Sun is dead because Sparc couldn't compete, and they wasted too much time on a side project to make an operating system for set-top boxes (Oak), then tried to extend it to be a web application environment, or a thin client environment, or whatever other idea came down the pike.

      It probably did more to kill Sun than anything else, because the revenue streams it brought in weren't big enough in relation to dev costs. It also diverted attention from the core business, and let other people make more money off what they developed than they did. It ultimately resulted in the company who makes the most money off that tech buying them out.

    5. Re:Taking bets? I'll bet against it. by mandelbr0t · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They are irrelevant and dead probably more because of Java than Solaris. And Linux isn't a replacement for Solaris, anyway. Linux has its best potential in the small business market, where paying the Windows tax is not really an option. However, there's just too much Windows market share for Linux to realistically compete for the home desktop. Add that to the annoyances with WINE, and I don't see a lot of movement in that direction any time soon. Linux is not a replacement for Windows. It's not useless, either, but it would be better for Linux organizations to focus on its strengths rather than annoying users by pretending it's just like Windows.

      --
      "Please describe the scientific nature of the 'whammy'" - Agent Scully
    6. Re:Taking bets? I'll bet against it. by mcrbids · · Score: 5, Funny

      Take my girlfriend for instance: she basically uses a lot of online services of one kind or another, although she prefers Thunderbird for her email, doesn't really care for Chrome so I leave her on Firefox. So far she's been through Windows 98, Windows 2000 and Windows XP, Mepis, OpenSUSE and Ubuntu ... and barely even noticed it. "Dear, did you upgrade my computer again?

      Good god, man! You've had a girlfriend through Windows 98, 2000, XP, etc. to present? And she's still your girlfriend?!?1!?

      I think you need to pull the trigger: Marry that poor girl!

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    7. Re:Taking bets? I'll bet against it. by abigor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why is Sun dead because they invented a wildly successful programming language and virtual machine? I don't get your logic here.

    8. Re:Taking bets? I'll bet against it. by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      N00b grandparents aren't going to tweak X anymore than they are going to re-install Windows.

      It doesn't matter how easy it is. They won't even be able to find the GUI in Windows.

      99% of Windows users probably never alter their video configuration regardless of how you might sneer at it.

      Whether or not they can safely surf the web is a far more meaningful question.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    9. Re:Taking bets? I'll bet against it. by janwedekind · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think she married him already but he barely even noticed it.

  8. Summary. by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


    In case of tl&dr, here's the summary:

    Ubuntu wins by 3.04.

    Go back to your Cheetos and WoW.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  9. Missing in the comparison by Beat+The+Odds · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's quite interesting that PRICE is missing from the comparison. I'd say that based on their own scoring system, that would make it dead even!

    1. Re:Missing in the comparison by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 2, Informative

      Another thing that's missing: security.

  10. Who's technically literate at PC-Pro? by Zapotek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even among PC Pro’s technically literate readership, only 4% are running a Linux OS[...]

    [...]then venture into Ubuntu’s equivalent of the command line – dubbed Terminal – and enter a couple of lines of code to start the installation. Hardly a user-friendly experience, and an unwanted throwback to the days of Windows 3.1.

    Yeah...technical literacy at its finest...

    1. Re:Who's technically literate at PC-Pro? by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Eh, more technically literate than the general population for sure.

      Maybe that puts into perspective what you're up against.

    2. Re:Who's technically literate at PC-Pro? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh sorry, does the population not meet up to your exacting standards of technical literacy? Do you think everyone should be able to build a computer form components, write a simple program, debug a make files and so on? If so, then you are dreaming.

      It wouldn't take me long in looking at your life to find something you are not literate at. Being a Linux geek type, I'd look at cooking first, my guess would be you can't even put together a simple meal, much less bake yourself a loaf of bread, something that would be required to be considered "literate" at food preparation. Now you shouldn't have to, unless you are a chef, however it is just to demonstrate that we aren't all good at everything. Even that would just be the basics, you are up to the "Run a make based installer," there. Far more knowledge and skill is required to truly be a culinary expert.

      Most people are good at the areas they need to be, and the areas that interest them. The rest, they leave up to someone else.

      Same shit with computers. Most people are not at all literate. They have never seen a command line and shouldn't have to. If you can use a command line to do installs, well guess what? You have a good deal more literacy than most of the population. You are no computer grand master but then that wasn't what was being talked about.

      The reason computers have grown in use is not just because they are useful, but because they are getting easier. The more someone has to know to operate them, the less people that can do so. Yes, using a commandline requires more knowledge, especially since things there aren't guided. In the GUI you can have plenty of hints and directions in a commandline you need to know what to do already. Is it hard? Well not sometimes (other times it is) but even then, it is still memorizing the commands that must be executed.

      You just have to accept that being technically literate means understanding the basics of something and being able to trouble shoot a bit on your own. It does not mean being able to do everything, it does not mean being an expert at things. Technically literate doesn't mean "Competent programmer," or "Expert technical support."

    3. Re:Who's technically literate at PC-Pro? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Informative

      Even among PC Pro’s technically literate readership, only 4% are running a Linux OS[...]

      [...]then venture into Ubuntu’s equivalent of the command line – dubbed Terminal – and enter a couple of lines of code to start the installation. Hardly a user-friendly experience, and an unwanted throwback to the days of Windows 3.1.

      Yeah...technical literacy at its finest...

      Not very accurate either. The last four distros I've installed recently (OpenSUSE, Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Mepis) didn't require any command line operations at all. I just booted their Live CDs, clicked on the Installer icon and went from there. Not sure where they're getting that from. I find that the typical Linux graphical installer wants a little more information than Windows usually does (partitioning, for example, but they all offered reasonable defaults and didn't require the user to know anything about it) but not by much, and found it generally painless.

      Sounds like they were just making stuff up to make installing Linux sound more difficult than it is. No, I didn't RTFA.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  11. Quality of Comparison by elewton · · Score: 2, Interesting
    While I agree that Windows 7 is superior to Ubuntu in many respects, this comparison is weak because it's a Windows 7 user in a relatively foreign land.

    I'm used to various flavours of Linux, and Windows 7 seems impressive in some respects, but strangeness makes it feel awkward sometimes.

    1. Re:Quality of Comparison by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While I agree that Windows 7 is superior to Ubuntu in many respects, this comparison is weak because it's a Windows 7 user in a relatively foreign land.

      I'm used to various flavours of Linux, and Windows 7 seems impressive in some respects, but strangeness makes it feel awkward sometimes.

      You need to make the comparison between going from Windows XP (still the dominant Microsoft operating system) to either Windows 7 or a comparable Linux distro. Both Windows 7 and Linux are going to be very different from the perspective of that ex-XP user ... but because Windows 7 is so different, either way he's going to hit a significant learning curve. I felt the same way when I first experienced the "Office Ribbon" when I was upgraded at work. It thoroughly irritated me because it was so different and I had things to get done now. So I went back to OpenOffice because it was more familiar, more like Microsoft Office than the new Office was.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  12. Derp derp by Lulfas · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I love how they have a category for Entertainment and Bundled Apps, refuse to mention actual games and only focus on things that Microsoft would be sued for putting into their OS.

  13. Sorry, still not the year of Linux by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a good geek, I've tried switching to Linux many times over the years. Every time has ended in frustration. Even putting aside all the games and software compatibility problems (and those are pretty frickin' significant), I also have to deal with a confusing variety of distros, poor documentation, and an arrogant support base (asking how to do something in Linux that you could do in Windows on a Linux support forum will evoke a "Obviously you don't belong here" blast of snobbery that would make the average high school head cheerleader blush). Ubuntu has helped with some of that, but it still suffers from pretty piss-poor documentation. And downloading and installing software, even using the built-in installer, is a confusing nightmare. With Windows, you download the Windows version, double-click it, and you're done. With Linux, it's often a mess of tar files, "Is this compatible with my distro?" And I *still* don't know the fucking difference between gnome and KDE, or why that should even be an issue.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Sorry, still not the year of Linux by Haedrian · · Score: 3, Informative

      Tarballs are confusing, that's true. The build-in installer is child-friendly. You just choose the whatever, press install and BAM. You're done.

      There are also .deb files which are also the equivalent of the windows 'double click to install'. The tarballs are there because those work across all linux destros.

      Then there are also repositories which you can add and which will update themselves using the updater = that doesn't get any simpler.

      Gnome and KDE are the interfaces which you use to view your files, the desktop et cetera.

    2. Re:Sorry, still not the year of Linux by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Under windows, downloading and installing software, even using the built-in installer, is a confusing nightmare.

      More to the point, when was the last time you had an application on a Linux/Unix box modify the operating system and break other applications? And that's not counting the number of times I've uninstalled a Windows app and had that break something. Yes, I know, Microsoft finally addressed their self-inflicted DLL hell by allowing side-loading and adding support for manifests as of XP SP2, but there are still a ton of applications out there that do things the old way.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:Sorry, still not the year of Linux by pjbgravely · · Score: 2, Funny

      As a good geek I have tried using Microsoft windows many times. On the desktop I have found the lack of software and an easy way to find and to install it a big deterrent. I find it to easy to find and install apps from a centralized repository. The inability of xp or 7 to run printers without searching for drivers a irritating experience.

      On the server side the seaming inability to run it with a remote terminal makes it a no go from the start. MS-DOS doesn't seem to have the power of Bash or Korn.

      --
      Star Trek, there maybe hope.
    4. Re:Sorry, still not the year of Linux by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I also have to deal with a confusing variety of distros

      You really only have to deal with the distro you choose.

      poor documentation

      There's man pages, info pages, --help, and if you need your hand held just google it.

      asking how to do something in Linux that you could do in Windows

      Try asking on a Windows forum about something you can do trivially in Linux sometime.

      And downloading and installing software, even using the built-in installer, is a confusing nightmare.

      Ok, now you're just trolling. There's a pretty GUI app installer for every distro.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  14. And if you want a business comparison by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Then you have to start doing things like enterprise management and integration. Many Linux types like to hate on Active Directory but it turns out when you've actually worked with it in a big enterprise setup, and all MS's other enterprise tools, you see that it is really well done, in particular compared to many alternatives. We had a hell of a time designing a cross platform authentication system where I work because the senior UNIX guy would not accept any system that used Windows as the back end. He fought with Open LDAP for a long time before admitting defeat on that front. Sun's Directory Services and ID sync proved to work in the end, after many months of testing, customization, and fighting.

    I think Linux is pretty well on par when it comes to a basic, net terminal kind of system. If you have a stand along computer and just need e-mail, web, that kind of thing Linux is pretty easy to get installed and running in most cases, so long as you aren't talking brand new hardware. However when you start looking at larger markets problems quickly develop. True, not all of them are Linux's fault, things like lacking app compatibility isn't Linux's fault, but it doesn't matter because it is a very real issue. You can't just gloss over it.

    Even in that regard, there are some things that ARE the fault of Linux designs. One thing that is needed for better app support is a good installer and install system. On Windows you can download or buy an app and have a very high degree of confidence that all you need to do to install it is run setup. An installer, generally using Windows' own internal install service, then guides you through the rest handling everything such as installing libraries needed, adding the program to things like the start menu and so on. On Linux, that only happens if you use the distro's package system. Great if the software you want is free and happens to be in there, but not useful otherwise. For commercial software, it is a non-starter.

    So something like that really needs to be developed and standardized to help with apps on the platform. Telling someone "Oh just compile from source," and "When there's s dependency issue just apt-get what you need," and "Modify this configuration to add it to your programs list," is not legit for normal users. The answer needs to be "Click this program, it'll take care of the rest."

    1. Re:And if you want a business comparison by StayFrosty · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Every commercial Linux app I've seen has a deb available for Ubuntu/debian these days or at the very least a loki-type installer. Installing is as simple as double clicking on the file and typing in your password. Less of a hassle than Windows IMHO.

      It's also nice that the package manager in Linux keeps everything up to date. Having 5 or 6 updaters always running in the background is a waste of resources and a massive security hole. That's a non-starter.

      --
      "Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
  15. Re:The biggest missing feature in linux by Lord+Lode · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's only in recent versions of Windows. More than 50% of Windows users still has Windows XP, which does not have the feature you mentioned. Also, unlike Windows, Linux is much better at the other kind of search: searching for occurances of plain text inside any file, without caring about extension (Windows supports something they claim to be similar to that, but it only works for files which happen to have a certain extension in their filename that is copied somewhere in the registry). And finally, desktops like KDE have had the ability to get a launch application utility that pops up your application while you type part of the name for ages already.

  16. Poor usability. by MaWeiTao · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ubuntu may be getting better. But it still looks amateurish in comparison to Windows or OSX. It just doesn't feature the polish of those other OSs. Windows has a lot of clutter, but it is still a cohesive and fairly consistent experience. It doesn't seem like they gave enough thought to usability in Ubuntu, they simply copied bits of and pieces of what Microsoft and Apple have already done.

    Designing a user interface is actually quite challenging. It's not as simple as designing something pretty. Apple and Microsoft expend a lot of effort in this area. Apple has a fairly consistent vision which is why they generally do a good job, although I think they've blown it with the new version of iTunes. The problem with Microsoft is that they have too many different divisions with different ideas of what should be done and reinterpretations with every release. But even then they're clearly a lot of thought put into things, as much as possible given the complexity of functionality. And a lot of times it's small stuff that most people don't think is important, but taken as a whole becomes very crucial.

    I can't speak to the other items since I haven't used the OS enough, but I would have graded Ubuntu more harshly in this area.

    1. Re:Poor usability. by Eil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ubuntu may be getting better. But it still looks amateurish in comparison to Windows or OSX. It just doesn't feature the polish of those other OSs. Windows has a lot of clutter, but it is still a cohesive and fairly consistent experience.

      The only way Windows could possibly be considered "cohesive" is when it's the only OS you know. In Ubuntu, you have one menu for your desktop preferences and one menu for system settings. In Windows, these things are scattered around the OS. Sure, the Control Panel groups a lot of things together but finding the exact setting you want is always a challenge when you don't already know where to look.

      It doesn't seem like they gave enough thought to usability in Ubuntu

      If you've been following Ubuntu at all, you'd know that pretty much the only thing they strive for is usability. Some ideas have been hit and miss (notifications behavior, window decorations, the hideous default orange-and-brown color schemes) but you have to give them credit for trying new ideas once in awhile. The basic Windows UI hasn't changed substantially (other than the window decorations) in 15 years and OS X hasn't really changed in around 10.

      they simply copied bits of and pieces of what Microsoft and Apple have already done.

      No, they took the parts that they liked best. And there's nothing at all wrong with that nor is it anything new. Microsoft copied many MacOS features and MacOS copied many Xerox-developed features.

      One great usability feature that all Linux distributions have that neither Windows or OS X never will is decent package management. If you need some software, all you have to do is open up the package manager, search for what you want, and install it right then and there. No licenses, no DRM, no downloading, no CDs.

    2. Re:Poor usability. by boxwood · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ... I haven't used the OS enough...

      And that is exactly why you don't like it. There has been a lot of thought put into the UI of Ubuntu. But you need to give an honest effort to actually use it.

      I have used all three major OS's a fair bit. And my assessment? Ubuntu has the best UI of all of them. Windows is kludgy, and takes a lot more effort to get to your apps. MacOS makes it easier to get to your apps with the dock, but its really difficult to have multiple windows open.

      In ubuntu it seems like they're just sticking stuff in places for no good reason. That is until you start using it. If you want to open something new, you're going to be doing stuff in the top bar. If you're managing already open apps, look down to the bottom bar. The trash icon in the lower right corner doesn't seem to make much sense until you actually drag a file to it. Much easier to drag something to the corner than it is to right-click and select delete. I was scratching my head over why that was down there, until I had to clean up some of my old files.

      In the lower left corner is show desktop... as old Fitts said the corners of the screen are the easiest part to get your mouse to. Throw your mouse in the corner and click. I never really used the desktop much before, but now that its so much easier to access, I put stuff there all the time.

      Top left you got an Applications menu, and its actually organised sensibly, unlike the start menu in windows or the applications folder in MacOS. And if there's an app in there I use often, its really easy to drag that app to the middle of the top bar so its only one click away.

      Top right, Log out, Shut down, etc. In the newer versions of windows I always struggle to find those. I think it might be in the apple menu in MacOS? I don't remember.

      And ahhh the places menu. This is one I can't live without. Easy access to Folders, Network Shares, USB drives... you know all the places you save stuff. With windows to get to a file, I have to click Start->My Computer if its on an external drive, or maybe Start->My Documents, OR maybe minimize all my apps or click the Show desktop button (which may not be there or is hidden because there's a bunch of other crap in the quick launch bar), Start->My Computer if I've mapped a netwrok share as a drive, but start-My Network Places otherwise. MacOS I have to minimise apps or open the finder and start clicking around. Ubuntu I just click Places and its all there. When I need a file I know where to click.

      I think the issue a lot of people have with linux is that they come from windows or macOS with preconceived notions on how things should work. Its kind of an uncanny valley sort of situation. It similar in some ways to the OS you're used to that you start having certain expectations. But then when you see a difference, it seems weird. But there is no solution for this, really. MS, Apple and Ubuntu all do usability studies and they get the same findings. MS tries to keep things the same and stays in the same valley all the time. Apple does things completely different so they're in a totally different valley. Ubuntu tries to create a good user experience so their little valley has some similarities to MS, some similarities to Apple. Even if they have the best valley, visitors from Windows or MacOS get an unsettling feeling of similarity and difference at the same time. But realise that MS and Apple are doing lots of usability studies when they build their UI. So when Ubuntu does a usability study they're going to get similar results. And using those results they're going to have similar UI elements. Similar but not the same.

  17. Re:The biggest missing feature in linux by fbjon · · Score: 4, Informative

    Good lord, you couldn't find a more specialized "main reason"? If you want this functionality, install e.g. Gnome Do. Press Windows+Space and type anything, it finds and searches as you type among software and files, shows what it is/means/does, and the action that'll happen when you press enter. For example, if I type "bea" I get Netbeans IDE 6.8 and pressing enter runs it. Esc or clicking anywhere outside the popup makes it disappear. HTH.

    --
    True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
  18. Is this guy taking himself seriously? by not+already+in+use · · Score: 2, Funny

    What a freaking fluff Job. Windows 7, the most widely supported desktop operating systems behind Windows XP, "squeeks" in a victory by two points in the "Driver and Compatibility" rating. Yes, this guy is trying to convince himself that desktop linux, the platform with notoriously bad support for desktop drivers and very little support for games, came close!

    Desktop Linux -- The Next Duke Nuke'em Forever.

    --
    Similes are like metaphors
  19. Re:Windows 7 x64 Is A Great Operating System by pavera · · Score: 2, Interesting

    OS X is slick but it runs on very expensive hardware

    I love how this myth has continued to exist... Do you people really not know how to do a real hardware comparison? The last 3 laptops I've bought, I go to Dell, HP, IBM, and Apple... I configure the system I "need" (RAM, HD, processor, screen size, etc), then match specs across all vendors as close as possible (IE, maybe one has a 250gb HD, and the other only offers a 300GB HD)... And guess what? Apple, while routinely more expensive, is only slightly so... IE $20-50 more expensive. And when you throw in the fact that I don't have to purchase antivirus, deal with reinstalling the OS every 6 months, or other bizarre and arcane MS only issues... well its easily worth $50 to get the mac.

    Windows 7 is easily the best Microsoft OS ever... but I highly prefer OS X (and even Ubuntu 10.04 talk about wanting to tinker?!?)

  20. Windows 7 user by Bobb+Sledd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have a small recording studio in which I run a 16-channel simultaneous recording firewire mixer. I use Adobe Audition 3 for my sessions. I can't really move to another platform because I already have so many recording sessions in this format (although, I don't really want to move, either -- I'm happy with Audition).

    I recently purchased an i7 with Windows 7 64-bit. I tell you, it does everything I've ever asked it to do, and it handles the incoming 16-channels flawlessly.

    I don't think I would trust this set up on Ubuntu. For one, my firewire mixer simply would not work with Ubuntu (natively). And if it could work in WINE, I don't see how it is better than what I have now. Isn't it just likely to introduce hiccups?

    --
    "They said I probly shouldn't fly with just one eye," "I am Bender. Please insert girder."
    1. Re:Windows 7 user by shas3n · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In my previous job I ran a 32 core SGI box to run fluid dynamic simulations. Of course, with Linux. Would not trust Windows for a moment on that setup.

      My point is your case is very specialised and so is mine. We are happy about our respective setups and none is disputing that fact.

      The point of this article is about comparing Windows and Ubuntu for a 'normal' user.

  21. The Same Old Arguments by MrTripps · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I did a write up like this back in 1997 with Win95 and some flavor of Red Hat. It has been thirteen years and the basic arguments still haven't changed.

    --
    "I'm not a quack, I'm a mad scientist! There's a difference." - Dr. Cockroach
    1. Re:The Same Old Arguments by dbIII · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The basic argument is "Win* user has an application they want to use that won't run anywhere else and they will accept no substitutes. Let's see what happens when we expose them to a similar program for ten seconds on a different platform".

      In my case it's WinXP that wins every time and Win7 that loses, until the software vendor gets off their backside and fixes the problems that prevent this years release from running on Win7.

  22. You are not the target audience by hideouspenguinboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The vast majority of computer users would never notice. Most PC users don't need the games you are worried about, or want them. They want web, email, and pictures of kittens. They should be using Macs, linux is a good second best. In the meantime they use windows, and their children and neighbors stop over to remove malware and reboot the box every few months. But if assuming that your own perspective is the only one that's important works for you, then go with it I suppose.

  23. Re:Windows 7 x64 Is A Great Operating System by horza · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's also a question of familiarity. I also think Windows 7 is the best version I've ever used, but I also think Ubuntu blows it away for usability as I've now been using Linux for so long. With Windows 7 the number of dialog boxes that pop up drive me mad, the number of things in the sys tray that keep asking me if I want to update, the number of simple apps that it misses that I can't get without having to pay for (screenshots, etc), the bloated anti-virus/spyware you end up installing, having to hunt around on sites for drivers that don't get found, etc.

    If all you know is Windows then Win7 is a great update, but then that is more to do with previous versions not being very good. If you are a gamer, then Win7 is pretty much your only choice. The sheer wealth of free software, coupled with being so customisable, makes Ubuntu already superior for others though. Until Win7 gets the equivalent of apt-get and a similar size software repository, it's not yet there for me in terms of desktop use.

    Phillip.

    --
    Property for sale in Nice, France
  24. The only two ways to get people to switch... by eepok · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There's only 2 ways to get people to switch to Ubuntu:

    1) (Not likely) Make Windows games playable on it.
    2) (Possible!) Change the standard directory names to things longer than 3 letters. Even if you're a hyper-involved PC-user (building and fixing your own and others with tons of tweaks), the dive into the various versions of linux is a complete vocabulary shock simply because nothing says what it is. Programs are oddly named and folder titles are super-abbreviated.

    1. Re:The only two ways to get people to switch... by int69h · · Score: 3, Informative

      c:\Windows\bfsvc.exe is clearly more intuitive and well named. OSX has the same cryptic underpinnings as Linux, and it doesn't seem to be hurting its adoption rate by regular Joes. I'm not sure what being a "hyper-involved PC-user (building and fixing your own and others with tons of tweaks)" has to do with it either. Competence in one area does not imply or guarantee competence in another. If you sat me down in front of VMS today, I might still be able to pull up the editor, and I've been using computers daily since 1982. Is that DECs fault or simply my lack of knowledge? Now get off my lawn.

  25. Re:Games by Ash-Fox · · Score: 2, Informative

    Games:
    Ubuntu 10.04: 1
    Windows 7: 9

    Weird, most of my games work perfectly on Kubuntu 10.04 (It's Ubuntu, just uses KDE by default instead).

    --
    Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  26. Re:Windows 7 x64 Is A Great Operating System by Missing.Matter · · Score: 4, Informative

    the number of things in the sys tray that keep asking me if I want to update

    In windows 7 you have fine control over what gets to notify you in the sys tray

    the number of simple apps that it misses that I can't get without having to pay for

    There is plenty of freeware out there for windows as well. I'm not sure what your problem is with screenshots, but that's what snipping tool is for

    bloated anti-virus/spyware you end up installing

    Don't go with Norton/Mcaffe. They are indeed bloated and suck. There are a number of free anti-virus solutions which are relatively slim, including MS Security Essentials, AVG, and Avast

    having to hunt around on sites for drivers that don't get found

    Most drivers are found through windows update these days. If they're not there, Windows Action Center will usually link you right to the MFG download page. If not you can certainly go there yourself and download it. From my experience, I've had more trouble with missing drivers in Linux

    Until Win7 gets the equivalent of apt-get and a similar size software repository, it's not yet there for me in terms of desktop use.

    People who use windows don't want apt-get. Most of us prefer a GUI to a CLI. Also, the lack of software, free or otherwise, is not a problem Windows has. It might be nice to have a centralized location to find it, but that approach has it's own problems, and it's honestly not something Windows users are clamoring for anyway.

  27. Re:The biggest missing feature in linux by sFurbo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Like the search box in the start menu of my Kubuntu 10.04? Or like the search box I get when I press alt+F2? Bot of which searches all parts of the name and all words in the description.

  28. Ubuntu by CFBMoo1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My biggest issue with Ubuntu is getting the sound system to "Just work" between Flash and regular Linux apps or WINE and Linux apps. Other then that it's been really great for the most part. Now and then I have driver issues for newer hardware but I ran in to the same problem with Windows 7 on a new laptop I got recently. My laptop actually worked better under Ubuntu 10.04 out of the box then it did with Windows 7 which needed me to farm drivers off Acer's web site.

    I think the worst problem I had with that laptop was the ear jack not working when plugged in but regular speakers working ok. A six step processes that ran an automated script from their support forum fixed that problem. Now I just have the Flash and WINE sound issues. Windows 7 had me downloading chip set drivers, sound drivers, video drivers, etc.

    --
    ~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
  29. Should've tried Mint by yk4ever · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Mint is much more friendlier to Windows user while retaining most of Ubuntu's goodness.

  30. TFA is BS by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Informative

    Of course, the default install of Ubuntu may be less useable than Windows 7, but kubuntu has win 7 beat hands down. It took me months to figure out how to disable the Acer's stupid "tap to click" feature in Windows, less than two minutes in kubuntu. TFA laments not being able to pin items to the taskbar, perhaps that's because IIRC the default Ubuntu uses Gnome. I've always preferred KDE. Clicking on the taskbar's pinned wifi icon gives you a lot more control than Windows does, while being easier to use. TFA talks about the close buttons being in a non-standard place, they're not in kubuntu, which is simply Ubuntu with KDE instead of Gnome.

    Clearly, this piece was done by a Windows lover; they give ubuntu a 38 and Windows a 41. I've used Windows since there was such a thing, and it's always been a total PITA. Things that are done in two clicks in kubuntu take ten or fifteen in Windows.

    --
    Free Martian Whores!
  31. No Ubuntu iTunes by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As long as Ubuntu can't use iTunes (and no, not some other content mall that doesn't have all that iTunes has), Ubuntu can't compete with Windows for the home user market, or probably the school market, or even for a lot of the business market.

    Yes, Apple's content monopoly is the key to protecting Windows' OS monopoly. The world is as strange as it is round.

    --

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    make install -not war

  32. Re:I'm a gamer by mjwx · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm a gamer. A PC gamer.

    As am I. I have more then a few games that run on Linux, despite that my gaming boxen still runs XP just for sheer simplicity. However my laptop (for travel) and my Media centre run Linux (Ubuntu and Mythbuntu respectively) for the exact same reason. Desktop Linux excels at simple tasks, torrents, web, email, chat, word processing, stuff makes up the entirety of computer use for 90% of people. So it's simpler to run Linux where possible because it does the job and hardly ever has problems.

    My Laptop is on more then my gaming desktop, why? because my gaming desktop sounds like a jet engine (I use noise cancelling headphones) and my lappy is quiet as a mouse so if I leave something going overnight it's on the laptop.

    Most people are too stupid to use windows correctly,

    People that stupid cant figure out windows, they use rote memorisation. So they learn to click here, then here and then here regardless of what happens. People like this are the easiest to re-train to Linux as you just give them the same rote learning system that they used to learn Windows.

    It's the people who think they know how to use computers but cant that art difficult, following your theory this is not most people. People like this will be a problem but their number is small.

    Most people will switch to Linux when their employer makes them. End of story, most people wont have an issue adopting even without much training as Windows and Linux are very similar, they just _look_ different. From the end user perspective right click does the same thing, as does the red X. Most people aren't as dumb as you think they are (well at least not in AU).

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.