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E-Books Are Only 6% of Printed Book Sales

An anonymous reader writes "MIT's technology blog argues that e-book sales represent 'only six pecent of the total market for new books.' It cites a business analysis which calculates that by mid-July, Amazon had sold 15.6 million hardcover books versus 22 million e-books, but with sales of about 48 million more paperback books. Amazon recently announced they sell 180 e-books for every 100 hardcover books, but when paperbacks are counted, e-books represent just 29.3% of all Amazon's book sales. And while Amazon holds about 19% of the book market, they currently represent 90% of all e-book sales — suggesting that e-books represent a tiny fraction of all print books sold. 'Many tech pundit wants books to die,' argues MIT's Christopher Mims, citing the head of Microsoft's ClearType team, who says 'I'd be glad to ditch thousands of paper- and hard-backed books from my bookshelves. I'd rather have them all on an iPad.' But while Nicholas Negroponte predicts the death of the book within five years, Mims argues that 'it's just as likely that as the ranks of the early adopters get saturated, adoption of e-books will slow.'"

82 of 437 comments (clear)

  1. What? by Antisyzygy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I thought E-books were by definition not Printed Books.

    --
    That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    1. Re:What? by RedWizzard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If there are two possible meanings and one of them makes no sense then I think it is safe to assume that the other meaning is the intended one.

    2. Re:What? by BluBrick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I were feeling particularly uncharitable, I might suggest that if you have problems parsing that title, you have little credibility posting on matters literary.

      --
      Ahh - My eye!
      The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
    3. Re:What? by Idiomatick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is an important difference. The figure you come up with is wrong. You can interpret it two ways:

      E-books have 6% the sales that printed books have.
      E-books make up 6% of book sales.

      The first way is the option you came up with but it results in a different figure than reality.

      If 1000 books total were sold then your interpretation would mean that 57 were e-books, 943 printed. By the other interpretation it would mean that 60 were e-books, 940 printed.

      The discrepancy is more obvious if you change 6% to 100%. In the first view you are saying e-book sales equal printed sales, the second view you are saying that e-book sales are the only books sold.

    4. Re:What? by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Funny

      "If one cannot write clearly and concisely then they need not to be writing anything at all."

      Hey you - yeah, you, in the hole - shall I drop another shovel down for you? That one looks worn out.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. eBook pricing by jmlowes · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ebooks will not be able to beat out paper books until prices come down. People are cheap and don't want to spend more for an eBook than the mass market paperback version. Drop eBook prices and watch them take off.

    1. Re:eBook pricing by Bieeanda · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lower prices, and a decent reader for less than a hundred bucks. It's a lot easier to rationalize buying books at ten bucks a shot, than it is to get them in a cheaper electronic format and plunk down for a perceptibly expensive socket to read them with.

    2. Re:eBook pricing by BLKMGK · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They WERE lower and then Apple cut a deal with the publishers to allow the PUBLISHERS, not the retailers, to set pricing. They then beat Amazon over the head with this deal and forced Amazon to capitulate. Overnight book prices for E-books in many cases were changed to be HIGHER than hardcover sale prices. The publishers tell you this is a deal though because it's still lower than hardcover LIST prices - who buys at list?! Retailers still set those prices! Want to know when you're getting boned by a publisher? Look for "This price was set by the publisher" on the sales entry.

      When this occurred I went from buying multiple books a month to torrenting them - I haven't bought anything other than a Sci-Fi subscription to a magazine in MONTHS as a result of this bullshit. When they bring back $9.99 pricing I'll start buying, until then - fuck 'em. I can't resell, trade, or give away an e-book like I can paper. I no longer want paper books in my home either - I have too many as it is! grrrr!

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    3. Re:eBook pricing by ffreeloader · · Score: 2, Informative

      For all the reasons listed from parent on down I do not buy ebooks. I'll download and read from the Gutenberg Project. However, I will not spend money on a book that will, in all likelihood in the future, not be accessible as I'll be damned if I'll buy something twice. I'll not buy at all rather than have to buy twice as DRM history has taught us is very likely.

      I like the tactile feel of reading a book and that direct sunlight improves reading conditions rather than destroying them. Plus, I don't like the idea of having to buy another piece of technology just to read. And, I like the ability to share books, buy used books, and give books away if I so choose without having to jump through artificial hoops. As far as I'm concerned, until all those issues are made right I will not buy ebooks.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    4. Re:eBook pricing by Omestes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually the only reader I know of that isn't (mostly) open is the Kindle. Both the Nook and the Sony Readers take the open .epub formats natively, and can pretty much read everything else out there outside of things purchased from Amazon (there are ways though), and the few formats they can't read, Calibre can fix for you. Books purchased from Barnes and Noble are as locked down as Amazon's books, but you can "side load" (a phrase I hate) from pretty much any store offering ebooks. Most of my purchases are from sources other than Barnes and Noble for the lack of DRM.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    5. Re:eBook pricing by shri · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >> When this occurred I went from buying multiple books a month to torrenting them
      At what point do you get that sense of entitlement that you're allowed to pirate content? If you cant afford it, move on.

    6. Re:eBook pricing by Nursie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "At what point do you get that sense of entitlement that you're allowed to pirate content? If you don't think it's worth the money, move on."

      FTFY.
      Otherwise agreed.

    7. Re:eBook pricing by icebraining · · Score: 2, Interesting

      At what point do you get that sense of entitlement that you're allowed to decide about what others' should or shouldn't do?

    8. Re:eBook pricing by BlackCreek · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually the only reader I know of that isn't (mostly) open is the Kindle. Both the Nook and the Sony Readers take the open .epub formats natively

      This is non-sense. When people complain that the kindle doesn't handle EPUB, they mean DRM'ed EPUB. The real problem with the lack of DRM epub on the Kindle are public libraries lending DRM'ed epub, and other shops only selling in DRM'ed epub.

      The kindle takes .mobi files, and DRM'ed mobi (.azw I think). The Sony and other readers take several formats but are mostly optimized for unencrypted epub, and DRM'ed epub. The whole deal is about which DRM scheme works on each, and which shop sells on that DRM format.

      Back and forth conversion between non-DRM mobi and epub is trivial. All shops I know of selling books without DRM also sell the books in .mobi for the Kindle, and if they didn't epub to mobi is, as I've said, trivial.

    9. Re:eBook pricing by Kartu · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is non-sense. When people complain that the kindle doesn't handle EPUB, they mean DRM'ed EPUB.

      No, when they complain that kindle doesn't handle EPUB, they mean it supports neither DRM'ed nor non-DRM'ed EPUB.

      Kindle only supports:
      1) mobipocket (Mobipocket.com was bought by Amazon.com in 2005)
      2) AZW - amazon's proprietary format
      3) TPZ - actually variation of AZW with embedded fonts
      4) PDF & plain text files (yay, these doesn't belong to amazon!)

      The fact, that there are converters in the wild, that can convert between formats, doesn't make Kindle "support" mentioned formats.

    10. Re:eBook pricing by BlackCreek · · Score: 2, Informative

      I never said that the Kindle supported EPUB. My point is that for epub without DRM this is a non-issue.

      As I said, I don't know of a single e-book vendor selling epub without DRM that doesn't sell a mobi version as well.

      The fact, that there are converters in the wild, that can convert between formats, doesn't make Kindle "support" mentioned formats.

      Read the post I was responding to. The guy already uses Calibre, so that fact that calibre will convert the (open) epub automatically when tell it to put the e-book in the Kindle is pertinent to him.

      If you don't want to use Calibre you can use Amazon's free conversion service by emailing the book to "[username]@free.kindle.com".

  3. I agree, but by OrangeTide · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is difficult to argue with the meteoric rise in ebook popularity. I'm an ebook insider, and I still buy mostly physical books. But customers really are demanding ebook version of many books. And pretending that the trend towards ebooks doesn't exist is unrealistic. I might start and stop in fits but I think the writing is on the wall (or display).

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:I agree, but by EggyToast · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is a crazy idea, but maybe people like both? I prefer books on my Kindle but I'm not going to avoid a book I want to read because it's not available -- I'm going to get it from the library. Maybe that's not the solution that reluctant publishers want to hear, though...

      Still, I agree that I'm not sure what the point of this original post is. A new technology doesn't sell as well as an equivalent, older technology? I'd argue that books are a bit different from movies or music in that books actually physically contain the story -- there's no extra layer of technology involved in enjoying them. That's probably never going to go away, unless paper becomes precious (in which case we have a lot of other things to worry about!). For those with a little extra money who prefer e-ink, though, why not sell them an e-book version of a story? A publisher should see each sale as pretty much the same thing.

  4. Re:price by airfoobar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The very reason ebook prices are so high is because publishers won't let Amazon drop them further, as that would cannibalise their book sales in which they get much larger margins.

    But, I doubt ebooks will ever replace books completely (at least in the foreseeable future). Books will be around a lot longer than CDs, DVDs, BDs, and many other such media.

  5. As a Kindle Owner by Tragek · · Score: 5, Informative

    E-Books still aren't there yet. When an E-Book as as convenient, as cheap, and as trouble free as real books, then we'll see e-books take off. But I think they've still got a way to go. Prices need to come down, the devices themselves need to get better (more durable, longer battery life, cheaper) and the software inside them needs to get much better.

    Speaking only from owning a Kindle, the limitations on display imposed by are sometimes infuriating: Limited type choices, no ragged right, an orgamizational system which doesn't scale past 100mb of material, let alone the two gigs that comes onboard, (Why people moan that the kindle is not expandable I'll never understand. Aside from a wikipedia dump, who needs two gigs of text on the go!). PDF Support needs vast improvements (why, god why do you let me zoom, but only to the scales you chose for me... which are always way too wide or ten letters too narrow on academic papers?)

    Annotations for academic work are important, and on the impotent keyboard they give you on the kindle, good luck. HIghlighting is slightly better, but still painful.

    Having ranted though, I have to say, I still love my kindle, if for no other reason than receiving my news paper every morning electronically, combined with Instapaper for long articles.

    The devices have amazing possibility, but until they improve, they won't kill the book.

    1. Re:As a Kindle Owner by Tragek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And I have to add, nor do I want them to kill the book. I love my books, I love owning them, I love reading paper books. But e-books have a super leg up when it comes to portability. I can carry the three books and the newspaper I'm reading in 8 ounces, or I can carry a pound and a half of paper.

    2. Re:As a Kindle Owner by AnonymousClown · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But e-books have a super leg up when it comes to portability. I can carry the three books and the newspaper I'm reading in 8 ounces, or I can carry a pound and a half of paper.

      And can you lend out one book without having to hand over the Kindle and subsequently your entire library?

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

  6. Wrong title by guyminuslife · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The title should be, "Holy crap, an entire 6% of books sold are eBooks."

    The vast majority of the reading public doesn't own an ebook reader. The vast majority of people say things like, "I like the feel of a paper book, I wouldn't want to read a novel on my computer." The fact that, despite the relative novelty of the medium, and endemic resistance to ebooks, they've already captured a sizeable percentage of the venerable book market says quite a bit about the future. And frankly I'm surprised.

    --
    I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    1. Re:Wrong title by fishbowl · · Score: 2, Informative

      >The title should be, "Holy crap, an entire 6% of books sold are eBooks."

      Yep. I was going to post something to that effect, but you said it all.

      Or you could even say "'Sblood! 6% of book sales are lost to eBooks!"

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    2. Re:Wrong title by garcia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm going for my masters. The program I'm enrolled in is a new one for the University I attend and as an incentive to enroll they are offering free e-books to those who are in it. As a tech geek I thought this was going to be awesome. "Look tech!"

      Well, I fucking hate the e-books aside from their price. I really thought I'd love to search functionality but I don't. It's no better than me printing the chapters out and scanning the pages manually. While this has a lot to do w/the software used for the e-book, I still just can't imagine that I'd be doing it "the new way" even if I had a hand held reader.

      My limited use of a hand held reader has been met with mixed emotion. I think they're slick devices but I don't like the cost of them, the cost of the e-books, and I certainly don't like the lack of a second sale+. When my e-books can be browsed for and purchased at a local bookstore for less than $1 then I'll be more interested.

      YMMV.

    3. Re:Wrong title by guyminuslife · · Score: 2, Informative

      I thought the Kindle 1 was pretty decent in that regard. I don't think it was perfect, but it was good for a fiction novel that I was reading once, sequentially. If I were re-reading or I wanted to jump around, or it were a textbook or a reference book, or I wanted to show a section to someone, or I wanted to lend a book, and so on, it would not have even remotely cut it. But the ergonomics and visual presentation were good.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    4. Re:Wrong title by guyminuslife · · Score: 2, Funny

      You and I must be the only people who have used the word 'sblood on Slashdot.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    5. Re:Wrong title by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What is far, far more likely is each ebook will be purchased once, the DRM stripped and the resulting file posted in five or six different formats for the planet to freely download.

      You could theoretically do that with music, yet people buy in droves from iTunes and Amazon, 100% DRM free. Eventually, publishers will realize it's pointless to fight the tide of technology and market forces, or they'll simply go out of business.

      Many people don't mind rewarding companies that offer good products at reasonable prices - especially when its more convenient to purchase legitimately than to pirate. That, to me, is the real lesson to be learned from the Kindle. Purchasing an e-book is so convenient, I have a hard time imagining it to be much easier. Once the costs fall into line with the perceived value and the readers come down in price (like $50 for a reader low), you'll see the e-book market explode, and printed books will be a boutique item (high-quality hardbacks), or only available as print-on-demand. Of course, this won't happen overnight. It will occur gradually over the next decade or two - the same way computers, internet access, and cell phones have become completely ubiquitous technology among the citizens of first-world nations.

      Also, I find it amusing that someone purchasing CDs is held up as an example as some sort of technological Luddite.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    6. Re:Wrong title by demonlapin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Strewth, I believe you are!

  7. Five star reviews are mostly bogus. by AnonymousClown · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Millions of people are already reading on Kindles and Kindle is the #1 bestselling item on Amazon.com for two years running. It's also the most-wished-for, most-gifted, and has the most 5-star reviews of any product on Amazon.com.

    Let me start with this; I knew someone who was close to an author (she will go unnamed) and whenever the author published a book, I was always encouraged to go up to Amazon and write a review.

    I'm trying to find the original article, but a year ago Dow Jones reported that online reviews are inflated - people are way too nice.

    In my experience with my own purchases, five star reviews are horribly misleading and inflated. And many times, I think they're written by shills. I now go to the 1 star reviews first (ignore the user errors and the folks who didn't like the shipping) and go up the ratings and ignore the fives. Apparently, some shills are writing 4 star reviews. Fortunately, the shills are kind of easy to spot - I'll leave that up to you figure it out - I don't want to make my buying harder than it is.

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    1. Re:Five star reviews are mostly bogus. by hahn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Millions of people are already reading on Kindles and Kindle is the #1 bestselling item on Amazon.com for two years running. It's also the most-wished-for, most-gifted, and has the most 5-star reviews of any product on Amazon.com.

      Let me start with this; I knew someone who was close to an author (she will go unnamed) and whenever the author published a book, I was always encouraged to go up to Amazon and write a review.

      I'm trying to find the original article, but a year ago Dow Jones reported that online reviews are inflated - people are way too nice.

      In my experience with my own purchases, five star reviews are horribly misleading and inflated. And many times, I think they're written by shills. I now go to the 1 star reviews first (ignore the user errors and the folks who didn't like the shipping) and go up the ratings and ignore the fives. Apparently, some shills are writing 4 star reviews. Fortunately, the shills are kind of easy to spot - I'll leave that up to you figure it out - I don't want to make my buying harder than it is.

      True if there are only a few reviews. However, when the reviews number in the hundreds or thousands and the ratio of 5 stars to 1 stars is like 20:1, I tend to believe the 5 stars. I do still read the 1 star reviews to see if the complaints are valid or if they're simply by someone who had some issue with Amazon support and decided to ding the product for it. But your point is valid. I do find that the 4 star reviews tend to be the most objective and helpful.

      --
      "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
  8. Is it just me? by Entropy98 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Am I the only one who prefers reading real books?

    I stare at a computer screen enough.
    a
    Ebooks are great for quick fact checking, but if Im reading 100+ pages I'd prefer a paper book. Its just easier on the eyes.
     
    --
      Windows Media Codec Pack

    1. Re:Is it just me? by nomadic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree with you -- which is why I have a kindle and do most of my pleasure reading on that. Could never read on a smartphone or laptop like so many slashdotters urge people to do here, I look at enough glowing squares at work, don't need to do it at home.

    2. Re:Is it just me? by BLKMGK · · Score: 2, Informative

      Strongly suggest you check out a Kindle - no not an iPad. the Kindle screen is as close to paper as you're going to get in a portable form right now. It's NOT backlit but can be read anywhere the light is good enough to read paper. It doesn't strain the eyes either - it's NOTHING like a computer screen. Give it a chance, you just might find that you liek it. I know being able to carry a few hundred books in my pocket sure is nice. Just be sure to review ebook prices first - right now they suck!

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    3. Re:Is it just me? by catbutt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Although I'm not big on reading novels, I much prefer reading on a computer monitor than on paper. The main reason is ability to rest my eyes by making the text really big and looking at it from far away.

      I strain to read text in most books, and I find it harder to get the lighting right.

    4. Re:Is it just me? by h4rr4r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Huh? Last time I looked at one it had about the contrast ratio of an old phonebook. Have they fixed this?

      Can you now flip at the end of the page or still have to do it when your halfway down since it take forever to flip?

    5. Re:Is it just me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, it's not just you! There was at least one person with similar problems. Searching wikipedia for the term "glasses" we get:

      In 1676, Francesco Redi, a professor of medicine at the University of Pisa, wrote that he possessed a 1289 manuscript whose author complains that he would be unable to read or write were it not for the recent invention of glasses.

      Perhaps you could try this excellent invention!

    6. Re:Is it just me? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you're straining to read text, you should really consider getting your eyesight properly assessed. No point worrying about vanity: if you need glasses, then you need glasses. Just find yourself a really cool pair.

  9. Different Metrics - Price, Units, Profit by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We have to remember that it is possible that, in the current market, due to markup costs, eBooks may be selling for less than they cost per unit.

    The only metrics that matter to the consumer are price and utility.

    The only metrics that matter to the writer are profit and control.

    The only metrics that matter to the middleman (book publisher, distributor) are profit per unit.

    We can't compare apples to oranges. We can't use Gross Sales Price, since many books sell for less, due to markdowns and returns in the distribution channel. We need Net price after costs, including tech support and returns, and capital requirements.

    If we sell one eBook for $5 million but it gets copied electronically so that we make no other sales, and this electronic version reduces physical book sales by a larger amount (due to piracy), then we lose money.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Different Metrics - Price, Units, Profit by BLKMGK · · Score: 2, Informative

      Bullshit. You can sell ebooks for less than $3 and make a profit. The overhead is WAY lower. Authors are starting to realize this and publish on their own and it scares the crap out of the publishing industry which is so stupid they actually use the cost of PRINTING paper books as an excuse to inflate ebook pricing!

      Read this: http://blog.macmillanspeaks.com/ completely to see how far up their ass the publishers have placed their heads
      and this: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/ to see what smart authors are starting to realize!

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    2. Re:Different Metrics - Price, Units, Profit by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The tl;dl version: the bulk of the costs in publishing are not the printing and distribution. It's the editing, proof reading, and review.

      That is utter nonsense. I own a literary agency, and I know exactly what the numbers are.

      First of all, most proof reading and editing is done by the literary agency before the book even reaches the publisher. Also there is work done for free by readers the author collects who act as initial filters. And the agency typically gets 10...20% of what the author gets, which in turn is only a few percent of what the book brings at retail. The publishers and the store make far more per copy than the author does. And reviews are free. Marketing -- if you can get the publisher to do any -- can be expensive. But generally, they expect the author to foot that bill these days. Your own web site, your own "signing tours", your own "buzz generation"... publishers do very little right now. And they're not taking new authors worth a damn, either; if you aren't already published somewhere (short stories, etc.), we can't even get a publisher to look at you these days. And I'd really hate to tell you how many good books you haven't read for just that reason.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    3. Re:Different Metrics - Price, Units, Profit by BLKMGK · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/

      from someone doing it.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  10. DRM by Adrian+Lopez · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd love to buy some e-books, but I don't want any of the DRM restrictions they come with. I can't sell an e-book online once I've read it, I can't give it away to a friend, I can't check out an e-book from the public library unless the publisher allows it, and often I can only copy my e-books onto a limited number of my own devices. While I expect e-books will someday become the standard for book publishers, I don't want to be part of that future unless and until these DRM issues are resolved. Publishers have little motivation to do so, which means I'll likely remain a technological dinosaur with respect to books and will never own a Kindle or whatever device has replaced it in the future.

    --
    "In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
    1. Re:DRM by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that you're not enough of a sucker. The fashionistas ("early-adopters") will latch onto the latest gadget no matter what it is, how much it costs, or how many of their existing rights need to be sacrificed. iTunes is popular even though you have limited copying abilities, you have to make your own backups (carefully), you can't lend the tracks legally or easily, they are generally more expensive per track than a traditional CD, you end up not getting minor works by the artist because you only bought the hit single, etc. etc. With eBooks your books can be altered behind your back and even deleted without your knowledge or authorization. Some people are more than willing to give it all up just to have the latest cool toy.

      Imagine, 50 years from now, a kid goes up to the attic and sees a Kindle with a cracked screen, broken navigation keys, and a dead battery. It is junk. Imagine the same kid in the attic uncovering boxes full of books, dozens of them, with pictures, diagrams, stories, plans, photos, etc. Which is the better outcome?

    2. Re:DRM by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd love to buy some ebooks, but I can't, period. That's right: many publishers will not sell me their ebooks because I do not live in the USA. Barnes & Noble for example are happy to ship dead trees to me overseas, but downloading is a no-no. And the selection in local stores is rather poor. Smells like DVD region hell, only much worse.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:DRM by catbutt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nostalgia aside, the kid is more likely to find the e-book because it won't BE stuck up in the attic because it's size didn't justify shelf space in the house anymore.

      Instead, he'll find the e-book on whatever the current technology is, and can read it there. And he'll find it a lot more readily. I know that finding something that was effectively "lost" (i.e. inaccessible) is a great feeling, but I think its even better to always have it accessible.

      In a similar vein, I am quite happy that I no longer have to worry about photos stored in boxes that I rarely look at, have to worry about in case of fire, have to deal with when I move, etc. I just have digital copies that very little effort to copy onto backup media, new computers, etc. Maybe sad to lose that moment of "look what I found in the attic", but that is far outweighed by the enjoyment I get be having all the photos instantly accessible.

      Same thing can apply to books.

    4. Re:DRM by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you are overly optimistic. Remember, the vignette is set 50 years in the future. The books belong(ed) to the kid's grandparents or even a more distant relative or friend. The electronic versions are most likely not loaded onto any device being used in the kid's house because the owner is long gone. The eBooks would be forgotten in some long-inactive Amazon account. If Amazon has a policy to delete the accounts of dead people after X years, then the kid won't even have that. Try 100 years later if you like. No doubt there will be many circumstances where the vignette does not fit, but digital data gets locked away deeper and harder the more time passes and the more technology changes. Have you accessed any 20 year old floppy disks lately? Do you still have access to a 5 1/4" drive? An 8" drive? Can you access cassettes from an old Apple II or an old Sinclair 2068?

    5. Re:DRM by cdrguru · · Score: 2, Informative

      Glass.

      I have personally broken two Kindle screens. I have managed to get them replaced under warranty - thanks, Amazon. A short fall to a relatively hard surface does it.

      Another problem with the Kindle is the screen gradually darkens over time. I believe this apples to all eInk displays and not just the Kindle but also the Sony, Nook and everything else using eInk. It makes the device have a rather limited lifespan that is somewhere around 2-3 years. Much shorter than I originally expected.

    6. Re:DRM by dissy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Have you accessed any 20 year old floppy disks lately? Do you still have access to a 5 1/4" drive? An 8" drive? Can you access cassettes from an old Apple II or an old Sinclair 2068?

      Not so ironic for seeing on slashdot, but yes actually I do and have.

      I however am under no illusions that I am one of maybe 20 people whom still do that sort of thing.

      Interesting tidbit: Even in the days of the Apple//, there were plenty of programs with copy protection (Minor form of DRM?) that needs cracked to use the software in an emulator today.

      The fact it is pretty trivial to do with todays technology is beside the point. There is still a lot of software and information from that age that is simply lost, and I do not expect that trend to stop in the future, but instead to only get worse :{

  11. RPG Books by deinol · · Score: 3, Informative

    I am liking the trend (started primarily by Paizo) of role-playing companies that give Print + PDF bundles for their books. I love having access to reference PDFs on my laptop. When regular ebooks start coming bundled with hardcovers or at a more reasonable price, they will definitely take off. As it is, who wants to pay more than a softcover price for a novel?

    --
    Got Apathy?
  12. No surprise with DRM by syousef · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Lots of factors here. I know I won't buy a book while it's tied to a machine or even several machines let alone the installation of the operating system on a machine. I know I'm not the only one. I suspect that's a huge factor. It isn't reasonable that if I lose or damage my reader, my entire library is wiped out. Is it any wonder that if people are asleep reading in bed or reading in the bath or on the toilet that they don't want to risk an expensive device AND their entire library whereas risking a single paperback or hardback book is acceptable? Imagine rolling over in bed and killing not only your poor reader but $5000 in books. Stuff that for a joke.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:No surprise with DRM by cduffy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It isn't reasonable that if I lose or damage my reader, my entire library is wiped out.

      I can't speak for all vendors, but Amazon doesn't do it that way -- the library remains on their server, available for redownload. Same for the audiobooks I listen to on my commute.

      Granted, that's at their mercy -- if they took that option away today all I'd have would be local backups of files tied to my physical device -- but it's not as bad as you make out. (Also, I don't buy most of my eBooks from Amazon; I buy my technical books mostly from Manning Publications, as unencrypted PDF).

    2. Re:No surprise with DRM by syousef · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Granted, that's at their mercy -- if they took that option away today all I'd have would be local backups of files tied to my physical device -- but it's not as bad as you make out.

      That is EXACTLY as bad as I make out. Vendors go out of business, and remove services all the time. I have books on my bookshelves at home that I've owned for 25 years. What are the odds your books will be on available on Amazon in 25 years? You're just renting them, and the rental period isn't even specified.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    3. Re:No surprise with DRM by syousef · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have books on my bookshelves at home that I've owned for 25 years. What are the odds your books will be on available in 25 years even with backups to multiple devices? You're just renting them, and the rental period isn't even specified.

      If they were DRM free, it'd be a different story. Key advantages include not only storage space, but being able to carry the whole lot with you, and being able to search them.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    4. Re:No surprise with DRM by cduffy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is EXACTLY as bad as I make out.

      No, it is not. You painted a world in which a single mishap with a single device meant immediate loss of use; that's not presently the case, though it certainly will be far enough in the future (or would be, if I couldn't crack the DRM).

      What are the odds your books will be on available on Amazon in 25 years?

      The only books I've bought in Amazon's Kindle store are things I probably won't care about next month, much less 25 years from now -- think "sitting in an airport, out of reading material". Anything I care about? Unencrypted or paper (preferably in the former -- living in a downtown condo makes the cost of cube footage an active concern).

      Someone can be aware of what they're trading on, and still decide that "purchasing" DRM-encumbered media is an appropriate short-term tactical choice.

  13. Re:price by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 5, Informative

    The very reason ebook prices are so high is because publishers won't let Amazon drop them further, as that would cannibalise their book sales in which they get much larger margins.

    This NYTimes article broke down prices of ebooks -- showing that a $10 ebook nets them about as much profit as a $26 hardcover. It goes on to suggest that they're keeping prices high to slow down adoption -- their whole infrastructure is built around dead-tree books right now, and they fear they won't be able to adapt fast enough to scale down their own DTB-related costs. I suspect though, that when they do figure out how to scale down, they'll be just as happy keeping the prices high.

    I'm a happy owner of a Nook. The only faults ebooks have right now is that even basic typesetting is almost entirely non-existent on them. Things that could be done automatically by the ereader -- things you don't realize you want until you don't have them, like paragraph-optimized justification, automatic hyphenation, preventing lone paragraph lines on page boundaries, hanging punctuation, and ligatures -- aren't there. Ebooks are displayed either with left-aligned text or with an obnoxiously-spacious justification.

  14. It's the model, not the price! by KingFrog · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I agree, to an extend. The real thing the publishers fear is the loss of control. On Amazon's ebook store, there are many self-publishing authors there. Publishers get zero for their books. If this were to catch on, the major publishing houses would die. So, they do everything they can to marginalize the ebooks. Now, it's true that many self-published authors aren't worth reading...but there are several that are, and who I enjoy. But ultimately? The candle-makers guilds did not stop the lightbulb, and the buggy-whip makers did not stop the automobile. Both these industries still exist, but in very different, and much smaller, forms than they did before.

  15. 6% sounds about right, but where the equilibrium? by bdam · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work for a medium sized book publisher and like many others we are scrambling to put e-books out. Six percent sounds about right, last year it was 4 and the year before that it was zero. From a publisher's perspective, we're still waiting to see how it all pans out. The suspicion is that this growth rate won't maintain itself and that there's a plateau somewhere. Where that is, no one knows, but no one that I know of in the industry is predicting any sort of e-book takeover in the next decade or two. So yes there's huge growth but no one's getting rid of their printers just yet. Publishers love e-books: no shipping, no warehousing, and most importantly no returns. Most books are sold to retail outlets on the basis that they can return them for a full refund if they don't sell. Since getting shelf space can boost sales you often see titles with an over 50% return rate. Also, for very little money you can take titles that are out of print or didn't sell well and put them out there. Titles once thought dead can now eek out a few extra sales.

  16. Re:price by BLKMGK · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When E-books cost MORE than some hardcovers of course they don't sell. Put them back under $9.99 and I'll stop torrenting and begin purchasing again! The publishers are trying to use E-Books to support their print overhead - and have said as much. MacMillan and others are thieves so far as I'm concerned. As soon as they began setting prices vs Amazon the cost of E-books went through the roof. that they try to make them sound like a bargain because they cost less than LIST hardcover even though they cannot be traded, shared, or sold is a sad sham. some authors are starting to go it on their own and skip the publishers altogether - I wish some of the authors *I* like would do that. You know it's sad when a published author makes MORE money going through Amazon direct and selling for a pittance than they do going through a publisher!

    Some reading:

    http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/
    http://hauntedcomputer.blogspot.com/
    http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/01/amazon-macmillan-an-outsiders.html
    http://www.teleread.com/drm/macmillan-ceo-tells-his-side-of-amazon-spat/
    http://blog.macmillanspeaks.com/ Make sure to read ALL of the entries in this one - there are some truly stunning doozies! I wonder what planet this moron comes from?

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  17. Books won't die. by equex · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't spend my whole life near a store that sells batteries or power outlets. I travel by bus, train, plane. That's where I want books, because there it's useless to depend on any technology more advanced than. "Flip to the bookmark, read." Real books are just an amazing technology!

    --
    Can I light a sig ?
    1. Re:Books won't die. by ErikZ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My Kindle 2 will last 2 weeks with the wireless off.

      The new Kindles will last a month. If you're seriously going to go A MONTH without seeing an electrical outlet of any type, well...

      Get a solar charger.

      However, if you're planning a mission in space where you don't see any kind of electrical outlet, and the sun is too dim for solar...

      Tell whoever made your spaceship that you need an electrical plug. The mass savings are worth it.

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
  18. Re:price by airfoobar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    a $10 ebook nets them about as much profit as a $26 hardcover

    That doesn't come as a surprise. The paperback version of a book is often cheaper than the ebook!

  19. Don't forget 1984 and Animal Farm by unjedai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With a paper book, no one is going to take it from you unless you get mugged, and then, what kind of mugger takes your books? Maybe I'll start spending money on ebooks when I'm guaranteed they're really mine. But that will never happen.

    1. Re:Don't forget 1984 and Animal Farm by Barny · · Score: 3, Funny

      what kind of mugger takes your books?

      Disgruntled literature students with no job prospects after 6 years of university (complete with masters, et al).

      And converting all their books to ebooks, when they can't even afford a phone is going to make the problem even worse! Roving gangs of philosophy majors, terrorising honest people, breaking into homes, stealing and and all books they can get their hands on for the next "fix".

      Amazon, you are an enabler, this is a terrible business model to work on.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
  20. 500% growth in e-book sales in 3 years!! by Phurge · · Score: 2, Interesting

    3 years ago, ebooks were less than 1%. Now they're 6%. That's a phenomenal growth rate of 500%. The ebook market is exploding!! Buy some Amazon shares now while they're cheap!!

    --
    I'll see your hokum and raise you a boondoggle.
  21. Re:price by morari · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I also own a Nook. I've been very happy with it, but I've always been a heavy reader. That said, I do believe that ebook prices are outrageous. I don't think anyone would really argue that they aren't. The publishers need to wake up, lest they find themselves in the same boat that the music industry did when Napster blew up.

    --
    "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
  22. Or maybe they are using hollywood accounting. by DCFusor · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A while back, I wrote a book, Digital Audio Processing (Doug Coulter). Recently, Amazon has it as ebook form, perhaps without even informing my publisher, and certainly without telling me. It would stink without the code I copy-lefted on the CD that came with the paperback anyway. Though they sanitized the book of any way to contact me, my email address is all over that code which they didn't check. I've gotten emails from unique addresses in the ratio of about 20::1 over the sales my publisher claims. They are cheating, no question. Next time I will self publish and sell off my own forum or something, no point feeding those dishonest jerks any more. I now understand why Frank Zappa had such a hard-on about that whole business. They have reported zero e-book sales, but it's up there cheap. Pretty worthless without the nice code though, and I don't see how you get that off an e-book reader and into compilation, so it's a joke all around. At any rate, they make the RIAA look honest....just my $.02 worth, which is more than they've paid me after the advance. My opinion of those guys is unprintable, so I'll quit now.

    --
    Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    1. Re:Or maybe they are using hollywood accounting. by orin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your book has likely been pirated. A lot of technical books are and odds on you are answering technical queries from people that hadn't actually bothered to purchase your book.

  23. Re:price by Larryish · · Score: 2, Funny

    BOOKS RULE. Tech pundits drool.

    Amazon's used books section contains some incredible deals. You can often find reference works and fiction for $4.00 (1 penny for the book and $3.99 shipping).

    You never have to justify your alignment with a paper book.

    Haven't had to "justify my alignment" since about 1992, back in the AD&D days.

    BTW whoever formatted all those Gutenberg etexts in that annoying tiny bold italic font... FUCK YOU.

  24. E-books are not purchased... by iPhr0stByt3 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Because ebooks are not purchased... they're stolen: http://dilbert.com/2010-09-18/

  25. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  26. Re:price by shellbeach · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm a happy owner of a Nook. The only faults ebooks have right now is that even basic typesetting is almost entirely non-existent on them. Things that could be done automatically by the ereader -- things you don't realize you want until you don't have them, like paragraph-optimized justification, automatic hyphenation, preventing lone paragraph lines on page boundaries, hanging punctuation, and ligatures -- aren't there. Ebooks are displayed either with left-aligned text or with an obnoxiously-spacious justification.

    I completely agree -- the main thing that's holding me back from buying an e-ink device is a complete lack of decent typography in the software. If ebook readers want to be treated in the same category as real books, they have to look like real books, and that includes the basic typography rules you've mentioned. It's not hard ... I don't understand why even large companies like Amazon haven't invested in this simple, obvious step. The hardware is there now, it's only the software that is completely lacking.

    Mind you, I've noticed that print publishers are becoming more and more compromised in terms of their typography too -- ligature marks are rapidly disappearing, meaning that even in print we now get fugly "fi"s half the time. Drives me insane! :(

  27. Re:price by BLKMGK · · Score: 2, Informative

    BZZT!!!

    Amazon is no longer setting the prices of books. Amazon would LOVE to drop them BACK to where they were but cannot because the Publishers now set the prices! Look at most any Kindle book on Amazon now and note the "This price was set by the publisher" statement just below the price...

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  28. Re:price by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For me there are two categories of books - "average" books that I like, but not incredibly, that I get as ebooks, and there are those that I really treasure that I get as hard-covers. It must be something about the physical nature of books that ebooks just dont do for me. Admittedly a part of me is also always preparing for the post-apocalyptic scenario where there is no power - you dont see e-books giving you a 2% increase in skills.

    --
    Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
  29. Why? Because... by fyngyrz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why have any middleman?

    Editing, mainly. Most authors need one or more editors, or at least a collection of "beta readers." I own a literary agency, and I have to tell you, of the best authors we handle, there isn't a single one of them that hasn't handed us a manuscript with glaring errors in it. Some authors are terrible with spelling, grammar -- and yet are compelling storytellers.

    Ideally for the authors and the readers, this will settle out as a service offered the authors, rather than an artifact of the path to a physical object, but right now, the publishers have a death grip because they control the majority of the market, which is still printed matter. There is little purpose for them (other than editing) to even exist in the realm of e-books; and that's why they're trying to use print to gather in every book's e-rights. The last thing they want is an author out there going right to the e-store and bypassing them entirely - but that's what the economics here clearly indicate is the optimum path.

    Next, you do, generally speaking, need a store. If every book were sold from its own website, it'd be very inconvenient for buyers. A store where you can browse many books is better in too many ways to be overcome by individual web sites. So that middleman will continue to exist as well.

    Physical book publishers are literally (sorry) in the position of buggy whip manufacturers at the very beginning of the motorcar era. Other than tabletop photo books, their reasons to exist are beginning to go away. Considering how many fine works by new authors they have prevented the public from seeing, while publishing the most awful dreck simply because an author had sold material in the past, I have to say... good.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  30. Re:price by Omestes · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I went to Borders last night to browse books, even though I own a Nook (woohoo, we should form a club). I found a paper back I was looking for, that was $1 more than the ebook version. I had a small qualm, and bought the paperback. Why? If the book sucks I can trade it in at a used bookstore, but with the ebook I'm stuck with it, and can never even regain a fraction of my costs.

    I love my Nook, and I'm really happy with Barnes and Noble (their tech support is among the best I've ever dealt with, had a cracked bezel, they sent out a replacement with a mere five minutes of talking to some nice woman, with no hold time, and let me keep my Nook in the interim. Almost unheard of.), but I can't stand the fact that I don't actually own the books I buy.

    That and there is nothing like a real book, sitting on a real shelf.

    It also is a bit silly how expensive ebooks are. I find it odds spending more for an intangible thing than for a real, physical, object. Not that I do, if the book is cheaper in a physical copy, I will always buy the physical copy.

    --
    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  31. Re:6% sounds about right, but where the equilibriu by bdam · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well yea, publishers are certainly struggling with this whole thing and how to pull it off. Part of the problem at the moment is both legal and technical. On the legal side, publishers who have been around for a while have a huge backlog of stuff that they'd like to release. However, no one was thinking of electronic rights even as recently as a decade ago. So every single contract has to be reviewed to determine if the book can be sold electronically. For us that meant manually reading about 10 filing cabinets full of contracts. On the technical side, there's huge confusion about how to produce these things. EPub is emerging as a standard but there's tons of formatting issues and to date we haven't found any silver bullet to turn a PDF or InDesign file into a beautiful looking ePub. You can pay an off-shore conversion house, but you get what you pay for. Publishers have a ton of experience working with printing presses and have developed a process to publish a quality product. None of that in in place yet for e-books. So yes, for sure, there are authors out there who, if they do the right things and get their stuff in order, can do much better. Will Wheaton would be a good example. But you're probably not going to hear a lot from those who tried and failed and trust me ... publishing is awash with failures. On the price point business, your point is well taken and rational. However, remember that an author who self publishes and fails isn't out much. If it doesn't sell at price A he can bump it down to price B and see what happens since his overhead is ... almost nill. Authors who get a publishing deal tend to demand advances and a fairly large percentage of books never recover that advance in full. That's one of the big reasons you're paying $14.99 for a book that cost 50 cents to print. Failure is expensive for a publisher and the market is extremely fickle. A publisher just hopes that every few years they get a book that sells like crazy to make up for all the others that were dead on arrival.

  32. Re:price by BLKMGK · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I did it for all of Harry Potter and then nothing else for years - and yes I owned multiple hard and soft copies of that series. Then earlier this year prices went through the roof and some books were no longer available anymore! I was reading a book+ a week and traveling so like I did with music I turned elsewhere. Music I now get from Amazon for my iPhone, not encumbered and a decent price. When books return to being reasonable I will probably do the same. These guys really are being dumb, thankfully some of the authors are a little brighter. I wish more of them had tip jars....

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  33. Real books are cheaper by fmrbastien · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here in Belgium, i bought a book for 9€, and i saw it in epub format for 16€, with DRM...

    One is cheaper and i can give it to my mother, another is expensive and is limited to one e-reader. Which of them do you choose?

    --
    lernu.net
  34. people are cheap? sensible more like! by fantomas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "People are cheap and don't want to spend more for an eBook than the mass market paperback version"
    Sounds like you've got shares in an eBook company, my friend!

    Perhaps, people are *sensible* and weigh up the cost-benefit analysis and take the best option. "Hey buddy, I've got 2 identical products here, one costs $5 and one costs $15. Which one do you want?". Err.....

    Probably people are looking at similar priced products and weighing up which one works best for them. There's a huge number of people once you step out of the computing and shiny-shiny ooh new geek toy communities that are unlikely to be interested in ebooks for a long time if ever. They'll be considering the whole technology package and how it fits into their lives. Most people in developed countries have come across a lot of technology in their daily lives now. They'll compare ebook readers to other technologies and factor that into their purchases of books in whatever format. "So if I want my book in ebook format, I've got to put down a couple of hundred dollars on another device before I can even open the first page of my ten dollar book, and it will probably last only a couple of years then break and I'll have to get another one, I am going to have to think about chargers and batteries, if it breaks will I be able to get all my books off the old one onto the new one in five minutes, can I read it on the beach?" - a lot of factors in there before ebook formats as technical packages get as good as 5 dollar books.

  35. Re:price by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

    BTW whoever formatted all those Gutenberg etexts in that annoying tiny bold italic font... FUCK YOU.

    If you want Gutenberg texts sanely formatted, go to FeedBooks. They typeset them with TeX for your eBook reader's screen size, with configurable text size.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  36. Also missing: library management by bradley13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We have also dabbled our toes in ebooks - we have two smart-phones, one dedicated reader, and a library of maybe 50 ebooks (as opposed to a couple thousand paper books). Even at 50 books, I am already frustrated by the quality of the ebook software on all of these devices. Reading is ok - it's the library management that sucks. Even PC-based software like Calibre isn't much good.

    Here's an example: Suppose you have a mass of titles by the same author, some are individual books, others belong to various series. You've just finished a book, and want to read the next one in that particular series. With paper books, I will have put the books on the shelf in the right order. Put the finished book back, take the next one to the right. With ebooks? The books are most likely sorted by title. The series information is generally not available. You wind up opening up several books, hoping that they list the series in the right order, or that you can tell from the publication date.

    This is just one minor frustration among many. When I imagine having a couple of thousand ebooks in one library - gack, it's really a pretty horrible thought.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.