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The New Data Center Capital of America

Posted by samzenpus on from the new-look dept.

crimeandpunishment writes "Move over Silicon Valley, here comes... Buffalo. Where the weather might actually be a big advantage. The recent opening of Yahoo's state-of-the-art data center, which uses the region's cooler climate and a high-tech 'chicken coop' design to dramatically lower energy costs is getting a lot of attention in the industry."

162 comments

  1. skunkpost, on the other hand, by pepax · · Score: 5, Funny

    not being hosted in the state-of-the-art facility, has its server on fire

  2. Silicon valley.... by catbutt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    was never really known for being a "data center", it's more known for where engineering and development happen.

    Data centers don't really need that many highly skilled employees working on site. In the future data centers might have no one employed but security guards and (relatively unskilled) maintainance. In that case it doesn't really matter where they are located, at least in terms of helping the economics of the region.

    1. Re:Silicon valley.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find this hard to believe. I'm pretty sure Silicon Valley companies have all their servers on site. For example if my desktop tower was in Buffalo with very long wires, I wouldn't see anything on my screen due to transmission losses unless I use expensive repeaters. It's just not practical.

    2. Re:Silicon valley.... by socsoc · · Score: 1

      Data centers != workstations...

    3. Re:Silicon valley.... by mjwalshe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and a region subject to earth quakes is not a good place to put a Data centre

    4. Re:Silicon valley.... by coryking · · Score: 4, Funny

      I agree with your concerns. Many Silicon Valley startups have taken to using expensive Monster Brand DVI cables to link the computers in Buffalo with the monitors in the Valley.

      That said, many techies claim you can just use ordinary lamp cord for the DVI signal, true techies know that Monster Cable uses sophisticated techniques to cut out jitter and chromatic abnormalities often introduced in transit over the Sierra Nevada mountain range. I personally would not hire an admin who did not use monster cabling.

      Some have taken to frame-grabbing. They capture the screen in Buffalo several times second, compress the image using sophisticated algorithms such as GIF89 or TIFF, and the send them using ordinary phone lines as pulses of one or zero. It is very expensive, and only the most well funded start-ups use this technique.

    5. Re:Silicon valley.... by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      There are actually quite a lot there anyway, though. One of the two main Amazon EC2 datacenters in the U.S. is in the Bay Area, for example (the other one is in Northern Virginia). There's a ton of other data centers in San Jose and Fremont as well.

      --
      10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
    6. Re:Silicon valley.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Earthquakes aren't really as big a problem as people think here...

    7. Re:Silicon valley.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear god, you're an idiot. There is no fixing your stupidity.

    8. Re:Silicon valley.... by cgenman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Compared to hurricanes, mudslides, snowstorms, and other natural disasters, earthquakes are pretty tame. They happen once every few years, and rarely knock out the power. The snowstorms in the Pacific Northwest caused much more extensive computer outages than the occasional earthquake in California.

      Really, the only problem is that you're shaking active hard drives for about 30 seconds, which is never good. But most are good enough to park their heads, and it rarely causes a real head crash.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    9. Re:Silicon valley.... by danny_lehman · · Score: 1

      you have Jinxed us sir! the Earth Quakes COMETH!

    10. Re:Silicon valley.... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>using ordinary phone lines

      Why not? It only takes 5 seconds to send one of those frame-grabbed GIFs over 50k modem. Oh and very reliable - it's hard to kill POTs even if a jackrabbit in Arizona chews through the line - it can be rerouted, If you use image compression (i.e. strip-out the color)(make it a 1-bit GIF) you caa get it down to 0.5 seconds. As fast as 500k DSL but without the expense or long-distance charges.

      ;-)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    11. Re:Silicon valley.... by coryking · · Score: 2, Funny

      It is prone to jitter. Plus only an analog connection can accurately reproduce the full color gamut that today's high end systems can generate. The same way audiophiles can hear the jaggyness of digital audio, many skilled developers can see the ones and zeros of such a digital link. With analog monster brand DVI cables, it is a pure waveform.

      Your suggestion to use DSL is silly. DSL is prohibitively expensive. So expensive that only two kings in Prussia have such technology. Besides--what use is connecting two computers with a high speed link?

    12. Re:Silicon valley.... by mjwalshe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes always struck me as odd that. When I worked at BT we had a duplicate dc the other side of London in case the thames flood barrier failed.

      Ironically an IRA bomb almost took out this alternate DC - luckily an empty building took most of the blast.

    13. Re:Silicon valley.... by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      its the "Big one" that id be worried about.

    14. Re:Silicon valley.... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Yea, when shouting at a server can give you measurable deficiencies, I'm pretty sure making the ground fucking shake is no big deal.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    15. Re:Silicon valley.... by dosius · · Score: 1

      Niagara County (Lockport is a bit into Niagara County, it's not "Buffalo" or even in the same county as Buffalo though it's in the same metro area) is not immune to earthquakes, though it doesn't tend to get the big ones like San Francisco.

      We've had a couple little bumpers in the 15 years I've lived here.

      -uso.

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    16. Re:Silicon valley.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's more known for where engineering and development happen.

      You must be thinking of Bangalore.....

      If there's development occurring in the US, we'll fix that in a hurry.

    17. Re:Silicon valley.... by fermion · · Score: 1
      It seems to me that a data center needs tax breaks for building it, and then cheap electricity for running it. The cool climate cuts down on electricity costs.

      I think maintenance requires some skill, and requires a number of people on site, or at least close to it. It will help with the job situation, especially since low skilled jobs are the ones that are not be being created right now. Skilled educated labor has jobs, for the most part.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    18. Re:Silicon valley.... by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Most sites are locked down with remote 'state wide' support.
      That keeps local on site/call 24/7 'expert' costs way down.
      Any on site tech can fix wires, swap devices, pro help can come next shift at a much lower cost than 24/7 pro staffing.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    19. Re:Silicon valley.... by quaqmire · · Score: 0

      Ha. Pot/kettle? (assuming you are american)

    20. Re:Silicon valley.... by afidel · · Score: 1

      Actually when I was talking to the head IT guy at a particular large bank in California he said that the Northridge earthquake knocked out everything at that campus except for one POTS line, they had power from the two turbine generators but no telecommunications, no AC for the worker areas, and most importantly no water. It took weeks before things were back to normal.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    21. Re:Silicon valley.... by OrigamiMarie · · Score: 1

      Snow doesn't have to do that to your power grid. Wind, rain, slush, etc. don't have to do that to your power grid. I'm from Minnesota, where the power is very stable despite the weather. I'm living in Seattle, where (a) the trees are weaker because they grow fast and don't fight frequent wind & snow, (b) people don't know how to drive in snow & slush because they don't have practice and their cars aren't ready for it, and (c) they have these silly raised ceramic bumps in all of the road stripes, which prevent normal snow plows from plowing the streets, and thus the standard is to use rubber-tipped snowplows only on major streets with the goal of making 1" hard-pack. Yes, that's right, the goal is glare ice on the main roads and snow-in on the minor roads. This makes it hard for the power companies to fix the power outages (caused by tipped trees and sagging branches) until the snow melts. Usually it all melts in 48 hours, so it's okay. Except when it freezes for two weeks straight and we have a snowpocalyse. Sigh.

    22. Re:Silicon valley.... by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      ah I think the AC is refering to the fact that BT was considered part of the "crown forces" during the troubles.

    23. Re:Silicon valley.... by operagost · · Score: 1

      I hear one of the Kings of Prussia just got cable!

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    24. Re:Silicon valley.... by sorak · · Score: 1

      I assume you're exaggerating. You would still need some people in there to replace failing hardware to diagnose network issues that cannot be handled via ssh, and doing plain old testing (simulating network congestion, outages, load testing, and doing so in an environment as close to the deploy environment as possible).

    25. Re:Silicon valley.... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Ironically an IRA bomb almost took out this alternate DC - luckily an empty building took most of the blast.

      I think what would have been more ironic is that when the Thames flood barrier broke, the resulting tidal wave put out the burning fuse of the IRA bomb.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  3. They should by i-c-electrons · · Score: 1

    They should think about into north dakota too. I mean let's face it it's cold as sh!@ there as well and that whole state could use some jobs.

  4. Buffalo, New York by iYk6 · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those who are curious, the article is about data centers in Buffalo, New York, and not one of the other many Buffalos in the USA.

    1. Re:Buffalo, New York by catbutt · · Score: 4, Informative

      Buffalo NY has over 250,000 population. The next highest I can find is about 4000.

      So I'm confused as to why you think anyone would be confused.

    2. Re:Buffalo, New York by biryokumaru · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well, I for one assumed they were putting servers inside of buffalos. Local power source, too.

      --
      When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
    3. Re:Buffalo, New York by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I'm confused as to why you think anyone would be confused.

      Probably for the same reason Americans have a habit of saying things like "London, England" leaving everyone else to think "yes, surprising as it may seem, I do know where London is...", the explanation apparently being that people might get confused with some obscure village in Outer Mongolia. It's just part of American culture.

    4. Re:Buffalo, New York by skine · · Score: 1

      The rest of the Buffalos in the US have a combined population of about 1/10th of Buffalo NY's population, and the second largest is in Minnesota, with a population of 10,000 (ie 1/30th Buffalo NY).

      It being by far the largest (and the only one with professional sports teams) is why they didn't feel the need to specify state.
      Similarly, when somebody mentions Boston, it assumed to be the one in Massachusetts, and not the Bostons Alabama, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, New York, Pennsylvania or Texas.

    5. Re:Buffalo, New York by skine · · Score: 1

      To be fair, London is the 15th largest city in Canada, and is directly between Buffalo and Detroit.

      (To specify, London, ON, Buffalo, NY, and Detroit, MI, respectively)

    6. Re:Buffalo, New York by hex0D · · Score: 1

      For those who are curious, the link is about Beeffalos and not one of the other many Buffalos in the USA.

    7. Re:Buffalo, New York by mcornelius · · Score: 1

      I say "London, England" when I'm referring to that one, because I've never been there, but I have been to three other Londons.

    8. Re:Buffalo, New York by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, London is the 15th largest city in Canada, and is directly between Buffalo and Detroit.

      With an estimated population of what, let's be generous, half a million? It would look a bit tiny next to its namesake, now wouldn't it? Not that there's anything wrong with that but that was the original point wasn't it, why mention which Buffalo when the others are smaller.

    9. Re:Buffalo, New York by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the typical habit would be

      Just say London when you mean London, England

      Be more specific. e.g. "London, Canada" when speaking about one of the other Londons.

      One exception being if you lived near "London, Ohio" you would refer to that as "London" and be more specific when referring to any other city named "London"

    10. Re:Buffalo, New York by operagost · · Score: 1

      Thanks. Please be sure to point our that future articles about Mexico, Moscow, or Paris are indeed NOT the ones in New York.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    11. Re:Buffalo, New York by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This assumes all readers both know of, and know the relative populations of all cities named Buffalo in the United States. It also assumes that a decision like this is correlated to population.

      All of these assumptions are... well... not great ones for an article summary.

  5. Why stop at Buffalo? by ve3id · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, why stop at Buffalo? We have lots of cheap land in Northern Canada where you would need no cooling for most of the year!!!!

    1. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by Jaime2 · · Score: 1

      Buffalo is near cheap power. The current data center proposals are all to the north of Buffalo, where Niagara Falls is.

    2. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by Nimey · · Score: 2, Funny

      NIAGARA FALLS!

      Slowly I turned. Step by step. Inch by inch...

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    3. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real reason to put data centers in the WNY area is the cheap and carbon neutral power from Niagara Falls. Climate helps, but power is king. The Canadian side has the same potential.

    4. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by cgenman · · Score: 1

      Buffalo is also relatively near New York city and Boston, MA. If you need to go visit your datacenter by spending a weekend in New York City, things aren't so bad. And it's not too much of a stretch to draw graduates from MIT.

      Good luck drawing people to Northern Canada. All you have up there is cows and land.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    5. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NIAGARA FALLS! Slowly I turned. Step by step. Inch by inch...

      Obviously there are not a bunch of people here that went to camp here else they would recognise that skit. You got my mod point. shoehornjob

    6. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Abbott & Costello!

      Laurel & Hardy.
      Charlie & Chaplin.
      Seinfeld & Costanza.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by GreenTom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dunno, that's a bit of a stretch. New York State is bigger than many people think, and Buffalo's really far west. For comparison, Buffalo is closer to Detriot than it is to NY City, and closer to Cincinnatti than to Boston. Buffalo's an 8 hour drive from NYC, so plan on losing two days if you try to visit Buffalo via the city.

    8. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by mcornelius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Umm, no. NY State is about the size of England and half of Wales. You don't casually go to the opposite side of the state. (I live halfway between NYC and Buffalo; I don't go to either on the weekend.)

    9. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by ve3id · · Score: 1

      Buffalo is near cheap power. The current data center proposals are all to the north of Buffalo, where Niagara Falls is.

      You think the power at James Bay is expensive then? Only problem is you have to speak French!

    10. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Relatively near NYC and Boston" being a relative plus I suppose. Four hundred miles to NYC, 450 to Boston isnt a simple weekend drive that most would want to do every weekend. About 6-7 hours. It is most likely Saturday if you leave work at 5pm. And following a relatively sane schedule you would have to leave Sunday afternoon. So you get to spend "Saturday night" in the big city. Flying may be slightly more competitive timewise, but security delays etc eat away at that and the vagaries of landing on time at La Guardia for example will rapidly make that a non-starter (let alone the extra expense of flying).

      That is like selling Detroit, MI as being near Chicago (and thats only 300mi) as a selling point.

    11. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by jeff4747 · · Score: 2, Informative

      NYC and Boston are 7 and 8 hours away from Buffalo. You wouldn't be traveling to NYC to visit your data center in Buffalo.

    12. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Hey, maybe he lives in the middle of Montana, and drives to other states on the weekend for fun....

      For the record, I-90 between Albany and Buffalo is one of the roads which I see in my nightmares. Too many long drives on that depressing stretch of nothing. Worst drive ever was from Ohio to Springfield, MA on 90. That drive never seemed to end. But yeah, parent had no idea what the hell he was talking about. 400-500 miles of driving, 6-8 hours depending on route and destination. That's not quite "relatively near"...

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    13. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buffalo is relatively near Boston? Montreal is closer to Boston then Buffalo. Buffalo is an 8 hour drive.
      Washington, DC is too.

    14. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by penguinchris · · Score: 1

      I don't think anyone drives on the 90 to get to NYC from Buffalo (perhaps go as far as Batavia or Rochester). Adds quite a bit of distance to go that way, not to mention the outrageous toll, and the endless speed traps in every little town along the way.

      That said, it's relatively near if you take a flight to see your data center, and that one-hour flight it won't cost that much more than driving would.

    15. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by Compuser · · Score: 1

      Buffalo is well situated but NYC and Boston are way far. Within 3 hours drive of Buffalo, you got
      Toronto
      Cleveland
      Rochester
      Syracuse
      Ithaca

      All of these places have good educational institutions (including Cornell in Ithaca).

      And prostitution is legal in Canada. So if you are a typical sleazy PHB or utterly sexless geek then...
      if you need to go visit your datacenter by spending a weekend in Toronto, things aren't so bad.
      If you are a woman though, uh, you better like nature or something.

    16. Re:Why stop at Buffalo? by s122604 · · Score: 1

      Syracuse area might be more realistic. Tons of excess infrastructure due to de-industrialization. Plenty of cool temperatures, and a nuclear power plant 30 miles up the road in Oswego.

      Shaves 2 hours + off trips to Boston and NYC

  6. Not as cool as it used to be by eln · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It used be that having people build data centers in your community meant lots of good jobs. These days, though, with advances in lights out management, you can build a huge data center and only need a few low-pay button pushers and forklift drivers on site. All of the high paid engineer and admin positions can be staffed anywhere, and usually end up being primarily existing staff who remain wherever they're already living.

    Sure having some jobs coming in is better than no jobs coming in, but data centers alone are not going to transform a community into a high tech mecca any more than building a bunch of warehouses will.

    1. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by Jaime2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It still might help. It should give us a better communication infrastructure and cause the big hardware vendors to locate more distribution centers and technicians in the area. The only reason the Apple was built in California was the locals had access to chips that weren't available to hobbiests elsewhere. Internet access and cheap servers are the foundations of the next generation of inventions.

    2. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by FuckingNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These days, though, with advances in lights out management, you can build a huge data center and only need a few low-pay button pushers

      This explains why 10 years ago the admin helped you out, and today you help out the admin.

      Remind me not to host any nontrivial systems where your philosophy manages the data centre. I want skilled people working quickly where the problem is going to happen, not slowly by trying to troubleshoot 1000 miles away.

    3. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      These days, though, with advances in lights out management, you can build a huge data center and only need a few low-pay button pushers

      That confirms my belief that America has turned into Soviet Russia.

    4. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by coryking · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you are running a massive data center that hosts a webfarm, cloud cluster, or some other large horizontally scaled computing project and require highly technical staff troubleshooting individual machines onsite, your process and application is completely screwed up. A well designed, horizontally scaled app should not fail if multiple machines go down.

      At the scale of Yahoo, Google or facebook, they probably dont even bother to troubleshoot a machine that is even hinting at questionable behavior. They just yank it off the load balancer and have some unskilled dude take the machine, dump it, and put in a new one.

      If you have a massive failure of your system, short of a natural disaster it ain't a hardware issue or a server issue. It is an application bug that require software engineers to fix. They don't have to be at the datacenter, they just create a patch from the comfort of their normal office (or home) and push it out to production.

    5. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by cgenman · · Score: 1

      You want highly skilled people working quickly on the operating system and router configurations. It's less common to swap out a RAID HDD, than to deal with hacked accounts.

      Some of the best IT personnel I know have worked from the beach in Asia. They could do that, because A: beaches in Asia are cheap and beautiful, and B: they were able to zoom in on problems and fix them quickly from a command line. Why do you need physical access to a virtual machine? Especially when the best a GUI is going to do for you is format a command line input that you know by heart anyway.

      And yes, very little of this was experimental stuff, and there were other IT people on-site to deal with the occasional hardware problem. But do you really want to put your experiments into a production environment before you understand them thoroughly? Experiments that would require physical access seem like either major hardware upgrades or serious breaches of OS security. Again, your team shouldn't need to be in your data center.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    6. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Not everything uses symmetric massively distributed processing and storage with commodity servers, nor is as easily suited to it as, say, a search engine. Google's application it may be the poster boy for clustering, but it's a simple and non-critical application run by a business with effectively infinite setup/maintenance funds;

      2. There are various potential points of failure at the data centre aside from a single server, including failures in monitoring systems and console servers, all of which could cause a massive failure... how long are you prepared to wait until the genius arrives on site?

      3. The competent data centre administrator can identify system problems on third-party servers by constantly observing host/network behaviour, leaving the application programmers to worry about their own VMs. For him to be the best trouble shooter, he must have a detailed understanding of the physical layout and topology and be able to modify where necessary.

    7. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Don't underestimate the value of tax base that these facilities provide; we've got a few power-plants that are almost deserted employee wise, yet the tax base they provide is huge! The 'bots at the highly automated power-plants subsidizes the jobs of lots of fleshies in our county.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    8. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      It still might help. It should give us a better communication infrastructure and cause the big hardware vendors to locate more distribution centers and technicians in the area.

      If you don't have good communications infrastructure, they aren't putting the data center there in the first place. If the data center needs parts, that's what UPS/FedEx are for - it would take a huge data center (something like an order of magnitude or two larger than anything ever built) to make it worth time for a major hardware vendor to even consider a part time tech, let alone a distribution center.

    9. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by echucker · · Score: 2, Informative

      Trust me, Orleans County will take anything it can get. It's a rural county, and Albion isn't exactly a thriving metropolis.

    10. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by Jaime2 · · Score: 1

      If you don't have good communications infrastructure, they aren't putting the data center there in the first place.

      We don't, but they are. I live three miles from the new Yahoo data center (I'm closer to the city, not further) and Verizon laughs at me when I ask when we are getting FIOS. There are very few places in the area that you can get communications or electrical service from two different last mile providers. When you upgrade to four hour on-site service from a major vendor, half the time they say it's unavailable here. I hope all of these things change. A few big tax-funded data centers will get things off on the right foot.

      I also work eight hundred yards from the power generation facilites at Niagara Falls, and we lose power much more often than we should. Although it can be easily explained by the fact that very little of the power from Niagara Falls is consumed locally. The upside is that we won't have to suffer in the event of a nuclear strike.

    11. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by Cylix · · Score: 1

      Your major brand name server components are going to have cache depots throughout the united states to allow for servicing of equipment which has same day or next business day service contracts.

      You are also incorrect on staffing from hardware vendors onsite. There are several types of arrangements that can be made and in some situations it can be a free service depending on the size of the facility or cluster. Generally, this type of arrangement typically accompanies a fairly large purchase and the onsite provided is there to ensure such an arrangement stays in place.

      Less dominate players in the market will typically provide parts onsite for quick turn around in logistics. This service can be arranged in several different varieties as well, but my preference is typically for the vendor to own and manage the inventory.

      "The parts must flow...."

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    12. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by Cylix · · Score: 1

      You would probably be wrong....

      Sure, no single systems should be the source of any business outage, but service owners can and do fuck things up.

      There are also instances where a database application serves in a tier 1 role and while redundant configurations exist no one wants to run in degraded mode for very long.

      Yahoo, Google, Facebook and many others employee technicians which service to complete repairs and perform advanced troubleshooting on the host. Typically, these environments operate with technicians performing troubleshooting/repairs with escalations that may or may not be onsite. In some instances the vendor provides technicians which perform the end to end troubleshooting, but this arrangement I've seen limited to only a few locations.

      Generally, unless a system is tier 1 system it gets pulled out of the pool when a failure is identified. However, at some point that host will need to be fixed and returned to the pool.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    13. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by shacky003 · · Score: 1

      I agree with the parent - I live at the edge of Lackawanna, Orchard Park, and West Seneca (all at the southern tip of Buffalo) and while we have city style blocks, etc, no FiOS even though there is a CO from which is runs just 900 feet away.
      Many areas don't have better HSD due to Verizon and Time Warner Cable deciding via cost analysis that many of the areas are too poor/underfunded to make it worth running even a mile of fiber..
      It's sad really, because this used to be such a hub back in the day with steel plants, and later the Ford and GM stamping/assembly/engine plants)

      Another small issue with Yahoo coming here, is that they loved the press during the grand opening saying how many jobs it was creating - They just left out that most of those jobs are being filled with people being brought in from CA or NYC..

    14. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      If you don't have good communications infrastructure, they aren't putting the data center there in the first place.

      Back during the height of the dot-com era, NY installed a bunch of fiber all over the state. Most of it is dark now, but it's still there.

      I'm in a craphole of a former-city-descending-into-minor-town, but I'm a mile from a ton of OC-48 lines.

    15. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by afidel · · Score: 1

      Google's model of fail in place is the way forward, why pay for expensive service contracts and expensive people when you can just design the algorithms to handle failures gracefully (a necessity at those scales anyways) and just buy an extra 20% initial hardware to account for the losses until you reach you're real expected workload. Heck by the time 20% of your servers in a rack fail it's probably so power inefficient that it's time to replace them with newer components anyways. This doesn't apply to the datacenter I manage, but that's only because we only have ~330 servers instead of the hundreds of thousands someone like Google or Yahoo have.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    16. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by hadesan · · Score: 1
      Low skill labor, button pushers, forklift drivers - sounds like they need to hire the Buffalo Bills players and staff to do the job.

      The Bills sure as hell can't play football so they should be doing something useful... (Go Jets!)

    17. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by atomic777 · · Score: 1

      While there is an international border there, it should be pointed out that Buffalo is also about 100mi from Toronto and Waterloo which are reasonably large tech centers in themselves. Sure, data centers alone these days do not require a lot of high-skill labour , but it creates the conditions under which Western New York can better integrate with and leverage its proximity to the richer and more populous region across the border.

      For eg. we in Canada are often forced to contend with inferior services simply due to the small size of our market relative to the US. As a tech company based in Toronto, assuming no legal obstacles to server location, I can see big advantages in setting up data centers 100mi away in Buffalo if the price is competitive -- you can still physically get to them with a car if you need to .

      Similarly, starting up a technology-oriented company in Buffalo is not as crazy as it sounds when you consider the fact that there are great tech universities in close proximity, including RIT and Waterloo, and a large pool of highly-educated immigrants in Toronto that are relegated to driving taxis and delivering pizza.

    18. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by evil_aar0n · · Score: 1

      Roger that. I live further south, in Cattaraugus county, but have to commute weekly to Westchester county - 20 miles north of NYC - to work.

      --
      Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
    19. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Dell has a service warehouse in Rochester and HP has one about an hour outside of Buffalo as well. So that is pretty much covered

    20. Re:Not as cool as it used to be by GravityStar · · Score: 1

      Yanking individual machines off a rack? Nah, they'll just ship back the container of servers to a repair center when it reaches 30%-50% failure.

  7. Buffalo? by Soul-Burn666 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo?

    (Yes, I have karma to burn)

    --
    ^_^
    1. Re:Buffalo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mushroom mushroom. Snaaaaake! Snaaaaake!

    2. Re:Buffalo? by skine · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that confused people from Buffalo who confused people from Buffalo confuse confuse confused people from Buffalo?

      Seems straightforward to me.

    3. Re:Buffalo? by Soul-Burn666 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually it's confused buffaloes as the animal, not Buffalonians.

      On that matter, I hate confusing people.

      --
      ^_^
    4. Re:Buffalo? by skine · · Score: 2, Informative

      A buffalo can be defined as either the animal, or a person who is buffaloed - hence a confused person.

    5. Re:Buffalo? by Lythrdskynrd · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo

      I didn't know what you were on about ... but being slashdot I assumed there was something going on.
      Apparently:

      "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo." is a grammatically valid sentence in the English language, used as an example of how homonyms and homophones can be used to create complicated linguistic constructs. It has been discussed in literature since 1972 when the sentence was used by William J. Rapaport, an associate professor at the University at Buffalo.[1] It was posted to Linguist List by Rapaport in 1992.[2] It was also featured in Steven Pinker's 1994 book The Language Instinct.[3]

    6. Re:Buffalo? by kindbud · · Score: 1

      Data center negotiations:

      Yahoo yahoo Buffalo yahoo buffalo buffalo Buffalo yahoo.

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
  8. They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    So, per my subject-line above? Yes folks: We "upstate N.Y.'ers" can thank the GREAT Nikola Tesla for his creation of the Niagara Falls power turbine system (sends power as far as to NY City too, afaik/iirc)...

    That cheap power? It was "part of the package" they used to attract YAHOO & others, along with tax incentives & plenty of cheap land: CHEAP electrical power via "hydro-power"!!!

    APK

    1. Re:They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      North Dakota has a not insignificant hydro dam on the Missouri River, and is in the midst of an energy boom. Buffalo, however, has suffered de-indistrialization at such a tragic amount that it is likely they have excess capacity easily available.

      North Dakota does not need jobs. The unemployment rate there is the lowest in the nation in the low single digits while the national rate is . . . much much higher. Poster "i-c-electrons" saying North Dakota needs jobs is facile and ignorant. They don't need jobs, they need people.

    2. Re:They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by freesword · · Score: 2, Informative

      So, per my subject-line above? Yes folks: We "upstate N.Y.'ers" can thank the GREAT Nikola Tesla for his creation of the Niagara Falls power turbine system (sends power as far as to NY City too, afaik/iirc)...

      That cheap power? It was "part of the package" they used to attract YAHOO & others, along with tax incentives & plenty of cheap land: CHEAP electrical power via "hydro-power"!!!

      APK

      I grew up in Buffalo. I know first hand that electricity there is anything but cheap. Most of the electricity produced at Niagara Falls goes east to NYC and points in between. This is because those areas will pay a higher premium for that "cheap" electricity. If YAHOO is getting cheap electricity it's because they aren't paying the going market rate for the area.

    3. Re:They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Datacenters don't get power like consumers.

      I work at a (relatively crap and smal) datacenter, and we have two "main" feeds from two separate substations. You know, the transformers the size of a car? Yea, we have two on our property for out exclusive use.

      You can tell our customers are really into Intel. -rimshot-

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    4. Re:They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Electricity is more expensive in Buffalo be cause the New Your State Legislature decided that charge NYC less then the Buffalo area. Electrons aren't actually traveling to NYC.

    5. Re:They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by dosius · · Score: 1

      And you can BLAME him for it too, because back in 2003 a fault in Niagara Falls knocked out a good chunk of the eastern seaboard. (Meanwhile, we were just without power for a couple hours...iirc, we don't actually get any of our power from the hydro plant which is just north of the city.)

      -uso.

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    6. Re:They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by dosius · · Score: 1

      You think Buffalo's bad? Up here in Niagara Falls, half of Main St. and a chunk of Pine Ave. (our other main business district) is boarded up and falling apart, and half the streets are bad enough that everyone avoids driving on them (I've heard they're planning to reroute buses off one street because they keep breaking down due to all the potholes in the road). Honeymoon capital of the world? Don't make me laugh.

      -uso.

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    7. Re:They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by Chris.Nelson · · Score: 1

      "Upstate New York" surely doesn't extend farther west than, say, Utica. Then there's central NY then western NY.

    8. Re:They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by electron+sponge · · Score: 1

      "Upstate New York" surely doesn't extend farther west than, say, Utica. Then there's central NY then western NY.

      Upstate New York encompasses all the regions of New York north of, say, Westchester County. Central, Western, Northern, Capital District, Hudson River Valley, Catskills, Adirondacks: all of them are Upstate.

    9. Re:They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by faclonX · · Score: 1

      The casino crushed whatever was left of tourism in Niagara Falls NY. Love canal, and Oxychem probably didn't help. Its sad when I have to drive through the area to the Robert Moses parkway, I remember when I was a kid and Niagara Falls NY was just as much of a destination as Niagara Falls Ontario; and I'm only 25! And considering the Robert Moses Parkway, that highway is getting scary, parts of it are starting to fall off the cliffs, and all the state does is move the traffic over a lane to buy a little bit more time... How many more years till that whole part of the rock face is gone due to lack of maintenance....

      --
      It had to be done... It had to be said...
    10. Re:They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by dosius · · Score: 1

      Oddly, Casino Niagara didn't cause any damage to the tourism industry on THAT side of the ditch.

      Nah. I don't think the casino destroyed anything... there was already nothing left to destroy.

      -uso.

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    11. Re:They don't have NIAGARA FALLS though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to POINT OUT that while I have my HEAD so far up my ASS that I can't TYPE PROPERLY, and I don't actually KNOW anything about ANYTHING, I can try to intimidate you with my CAPITAL LETTERS and will harass you for DAYS if you DISAGREE WITH ME.
      apk

  9. Canada is where it should be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Cheap hydro power, no summers ( well actually that is not true we had summer last year, it happened on a Thursday). You can also use the excess heat to warm up the parking garage of the employees because the cars will blow their frost plugs even if they are plugged into block heaters and the batteries will freeze if they don't have an electric blanket around them. -60c (-100c with wind chill) is horrible, most people run their cars 24/7 when it gets really cold.

    1. Re:Canada is where it should be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      frost plugs, battery blankets, block heaters... If these are real, why do you live there?

    2. Re:Canada is where it should be by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sounds good! All you need is for somebody to dig through that permafrost to lay some fiber-optic cables...

      After all, a data center needs some way to actually, I don't know, deliver data...

    3. Re:Canada is where it should be by Reed+Solomon · · Score: 2, Funny

      They are real. Isn't that enough of a reason to live there?

    4. Re:Canada is where it should be by Reed+Solomon · · Score: 2, Funny

      Winnipeg would be perfect. Google should build a server farm so big it would produce so much heat that the snow in the city would melt, forcing them to open up the floodway in the winter.

      yeaaaaah!

    5. Re:Canada is where it should be by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Bullshit, that maybe true for the North Slope in Alaska, but not for Buffalo NY. They get lots of wind and lake effect snow measured in feet, but it's not anywhere near that cold there. cars don't feel wind-chill.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    6. Re:Canada is where it should be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we had summer last year, it happened on a Thursday

      I'm glad someone is going for Funny on the weather, but in truth Buffalo is four-season territory.
      http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USNY0181?from=search

      I used to live on the north side of the lake. Summers are /hot/. (How hot? My friends from equatorial Indonesia complained about the heat.) A Buffalo facility will get a break on the cooling bill for half the year, but it'll still need an expensive full-power system installed, maintained, and going balls-out for the month of August when the Grid is sending around notices to ask people to lay off on the air conditioners.

      More likely Buffalo offers cheap hydro (Niagra), and state & city governments bending over backwards to attract industry. Plus there's pretty reasonable suburban living infrastructure for tech staff.

      Unless (and this is where Slashdot geekiness should kick in) they're going to do something interesting like use the lake for cooling. The lake is deep, and cool beneath the surface. The steel mill I worked at out there drew in this water to feed a series of cooling ponds. Rust-belt economics may mean cheap shoreline industrial land perfect for one of these parking-lot sized additions.

    7. Re:Canada is where it should be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheap hydro power, no summers ( well actually that is not true we had summer last year, it happened on a Thursday). You can also use the excess heat to warm up the parking garage of the employees because the cars will blow their frost plugs even if they are plugged into block heaters and the batteries will freeze if they don't have an electric blanket around them. -60c (-100c with wind chill) is horrible, most people run their cars 24/7 when it gets really cold.

      As someone who isn't that versed on using nature to cool computers, what do they do about condensation? Isn't hot computer + cold wet air = condensation = short circuit?

    8. Re:Canada is where it should be by symbolset · · Score: 1

      The warmer the air gets the more water it can hold. The condensation you're thinking about comes from things like Liquid Nitrogen chillers operating in warm wet air. The air that comes in contact with the cold chiller becomes too cool to hold the water and it precipitates as water or builds up as frost - much like the sides of an older freezer. Cold air actually tends to be very dry. There are other counterintuitive effects too - water vapor is lighter than air at the same temperature, so humid air is less dense. In the Gulf of Mexico warm dry air causes water to evaporate which causes an updraft, which causes more airflow which drives more evaporation. Once coriolis effects organize the flows: hurricane.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    9. Re:Canada is where it should be by evil_aar0n · · Score: 1

      Ok, having lived in WNY for years - was around for '77 blizzard - I know what you're talking about, but even _I_ would say this hyperbole goes a wee bit over the top. I think it was Wednesday _and_ Thursday.

      --
      Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
  10. Pictures by Gestion+des+risques · · Score: 1

    Any picture of this"data center" available on a website ?

    --
    conseil en organisation |
  11. Buffalo buffalo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Buffalo buffalo, Buffalo buffalo buffalo, buffalo data?

  12. Buffalo has good ping times by inhuman.games · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Geographically speaking, I think Buffalo is better than Silicon Valley for a server -- if you have European customers. My server in Buffalo had good latency for users in both North America and Europe. My server in Silicon Valley had worse latency for my European users. I'm surprised there aren't more data centers in the New York area.

    1. Re:Buffalo has good ping times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about a server in Europe for your European customers?

    2. Re:Buffalo has good ping times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry to be pedantic, but New York area? Where, geographically speaking is that? You do know that Buffalo is close to New York City like Chicago is close to Cleveland, or San Francisco is to LA? By New York area did you want to include New Jersey, Pennsylvania and all of New England?

    3. Re:Buffalo has good ping times by inode_buddha · · Score: 3, Informative

      Did you know that some MAJOR fiber runs through this area? One of the original ARPAnet backbones runs directly under Transit Rd. in Lockport en route to UB where they are doing a lot of human genome crunching. UB was one of the original 5 ARPAnet sites. In Buffalo itself, the financial services and medical sectors are boming, along with insurance. There's *plenty* of IT and internet here. Most of my packets go through there and then get zinged out to NYC via Rochester. They go from Rochester down to Washington, and make a round trip from there.

      --
      C|N>K
    4. Re:Buffalo has good ping times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a word: taxes. NY has rather high taxes that puts a big damper on bringing businesses to the state. There is a reason a lot of companies have left NY and moved south. Outside of New York City, the rest of the state has seen steady declines in business, population, and tax revenue for the past 30 years.

  13. Will works have health care or will they just cand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will works have health care or will they just say go to candia!?

  14. yes...build it in an earthquake zone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    because building a data center in the most active earthquake zone in north america is such a fucking brilliant idea.
    http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article71251.ece
    its so fucking active the largest earthquake research center in north america is located there :
    http://mceer.buffalo.edu/About_MCEER/default.asp
    yes. lets all take advantage of that cooling while our harddrives get shaken to pieces. brilliant.
    hint for those yahoos who run yahoo : the canadian shield is north of buffalo. and its the most stable place on the planet with much colder weather.

    1. Re:yes...build it in an earthquake zone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      you have to be kidding me. the earthquake you linked happened in canada:

      "The midday earthquake measured a magnitude of 5.0, and while centered 35 miles outside the Canadian capital of Ottawa, it sent tremors through Western New York and at least eight U.S. states. Locally, the rumbling rattled residents from Springville to Lewiston."

      buffalo is hardly an active earthquake zone

    2. Re:yes...build it in an earthquake zone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually it is.
      http://mceer.buffalo.edu/infoservice/reference_services/westernNewYorkEQs.asp

  15. Good on ya, Buffalo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... but the rest of America is still sore at those four consecutive Super Bowls you guys made us sit through with your losing teams. Marv Levy, Thurmon Thomas, Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly and the no-huddle offense, etc. I remember a fan holding up a sign: "Deal with it America!"

    1. Re:Good on ya, Buffalo by McGruber · · Score: 2, Funny

      ... but the rest of America is still sore at those four consecutive Super Bowls you guys made us sit through with your losing teams.

      Maybe they can convert Ralph Wilson stadium into a data center once the Bills relocate to Toronto?

  16. Yeah, right. by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative

    First off, where did they get that picture of a bunch of mini-tower machines on steel shelving, each with one Ethernet cable, one power cord, and one console connection, sitting on raised floor? That looks like clip art of some data center circa 1998. Here's the actual Yahoo data center in Lockport, which, as you'd expect, is a big farm of 1U rackmounts. The "chicken coop" design is simply a low-cost prefabricated metal building with lots of ventilation grills. Looks like something ordered out of the Butler Buildings catalog.

    Yahoo got $9 million in grants and 10 years of no taxes for this. Yet it will employ only 125 people. Probably less, once it's running.

    Lockport is desperate. The big employer in town, Delphi Harrison Thermal Systems (formerly Harrison Radiator) had 6000 employees a decade ago. Now it has 2100, and has been threatened with closure several times.

    1. Re:Yeah, right. by slashkitty · · Score: 2, Funny

      Is that actual open air? Wouldn't dirt and water in the air start causing problems?

      --
      -- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
    2. Re:Yeah, right. by Animats · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Is that actual open air? Wouldn't dirt and water in the air start causing problems?

      It's probably not open air. My guess is that they have air-to-air heat exchangers behind all those grills, so the heat is dumped into the cold ambient air. Mostly the same air goes round and round in the data center, which keeps the humidity in range. So there's not much work for the chillers; mostly it's just fans.

    3. Re:Yeah, right. by guruevi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      125 people in a town of 20,000 is huge. Each of those people needs housing, pays income tax (which NYS is probably the highest in the US), pays sales tax (8%) need office supplies, phone lines, cell phones, gets married, has children, goes out to eat etc. etc. That's roughly $4-6m/year of extra cash flowing into the local economy.

      Besides, Yahoo probably wouldn't pay taxes anyway because they're incorporated somewhere else and claim towards the local tax man that they made 0 profit and have a huge loss into having the data center. Besides they also have to pay for people to maintain the air conditioning and building, snow shoveling their parking lots, fixing the heating system in the offices all of which local contractors do.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    4. Re:Yeah, right. by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, they would normally pay property tax which is based on the book value of the physical assets at the site. For a large datacenter that's a LOT of capital and hence lots of taxable land value.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  17. better link by hex0D · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/092010-yahoo-opens-chicken-coop-green.html although the original link does a great job of showcasing local boosterism in a rust belt town feverishly hopeful for a better future ('Yay! 100 jobs! Some interest! The town is saved, paw'!), this link actually has details more likely to be of interest to a slashdot reader. The long and narrow design placed in consideration of prevailing winds seems clever, sure, but I don't get the big deal over it. Maybe using common sense really is so rare as to be considered innovative.

  18. +1, Informative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    +1, Informative

  19. Even plans to build your own!!! by rts008 · · Score: 0

    Here you go.

    --
    Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  20. Really, Really Need A Job? by b4upoo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Skilled help may be needed by these new data centers. So all they have to do is talk high quality employees into the joys of living in Buffalo. If the cold doesn't kill you and boredom doesn't finish you off the state income taxes may have you wander about hoping that you will freeze to death.

    1. Re: Really, Really Need A Job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know a few people from Silicon Valley who would jump at such an opportunity.

    2. Re: Really, Really Need A Job? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Nah, just takes a little marketing.

      "Buffalo: At least it's not Utica".

    3. Re: Really, Really Need A Job? by szilagyi · · Score: 1

      It's the property taxes that really get you, although real estate is otherwise cheap. Check out the next county over, Orleans...

  21. Not as diverse as it never was. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    True, and the comment about rust belt ignores that one of the reasons was the rather over-dependence on one or a few types of industry. Data centers are the new steel mills or auto makers of this century.

  22. Wow, excellent pictures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for that much better link, with actual pictures of the place!

  23. 5993 by TheMidget · · Score: 1

    goo'gl it!

  24. Hehe by TheMidget · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    Visit the mighty goat!

    Beware: it's not what you might think it is...

  25. I'll GLADLY comment here... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll agree on 1 point: It's not as cheap as it WAS, before (that is, before "National GREED" (National GRID)) got ahold of us... that's for consumers!

    (I live in Syracuse N.Y. again, but for many years I was away in NYC, Atlanta, Mobile, Savannah, you-name-it (travelling for work to buy a home here, finally, & doing that contracting type migrant farmworker life for almost 15++ yrs. in the computer sciences fields!)

    Heh, who knows? I just MAY end up working for YAHOO one of these days, as Buffalo is only like 2.5 hrs. away from here & I can rent out my home to draw income from THAT and work in Buffalo!

    (Buffalo, imo @ least? Hey: Nice town!)

    In fact, recently, I was there visiting while on the way to Canada with my bro, & nephew, & stopped at the "home of the buffalo style chicken wing" a few months back!

    (Sorry, I can't recall name of the restaurant, but my brother, nephew, & I were there & met the owner (nice Italian guy, and good husband - he bought his wife an Audi R8 & it was there too, lol!)).

    BTW: IIRC, while I lived in NYC? Con-Edison runs THEIR power...

    APK

    P.S.=> Anyhow/anyways - "back on track": I am paying 3x what I was when it was Niagara Mohawk running my power 3-4++ yrs. or so ago (been awhile since NIMO is gone, can't recall exact year when it was though anymore)... ]

    Now - Once National "GREED" (GRID) got ahold of us in NY State, when Niagara Mohawk power company "souled out" apparently to National Grid (afaik, a UK based concern no less)? That's when our POWER BILLS tripled in NY State USA...

    Funniest part of this?

    Well, many times the USA itself uses what are called "economic 'hit men'" who go into other nations, such as below Mexico, and destroy nations the same basic way: One of the 1st moves they make? Assume control of the POWER GRIDS... apk

    1. Re:I'll GLADLY comment here... apk by dosius · · Score: 1

      You mean Anchor Bar, on Main St.? There's a Wendy's right next door?

      -uso.

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
  26. What about... by CrazySpence · · Score: 1

    The yearly power cutting snow storms? Tornado's? Flooding of nearby areas? Buffalo is hardly safe from natural disaster. Someone probably just thought "lets go north, nothing ever happens up there" and their yes men agreed and here we are.

    1. Re:What about... by dosius · · Score: 2, Informative

      Lockport's in Niagara County. We in Niagara County don't get the storms that bury Buffalo and especially the Southern Tier under 7 feet of snow every year like clockwork. Once Buffalo got stomped and Sanborn (where I went to college, just a couple miles west of Lockport) was still green.

      -uso.

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    2. Re:What about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lockport's in Niagara County. We in Niagara County don't get the storms that bury Buffalo and especially the Southern Tier under 7 feet of snow every year like clockwork. Once Buffalo got stomped and Sanborn (where I went to college, just a couple miles west of Lockport) was still green.

      Californians seem to think they have a lock on micro climates, but we in Buffalo are downwind of the Great Lakes and some of the same things happen here. As noted above, south of the city has big snow (and skiing), other parts have little or none. Temperature is moderated by the lakes, Buffalo has never had 100F temps, normal summer highs are around 90F. I can only recall one tornado that did any damage...and I've been around here since early 1950's.

      When it comes to things to do, someone noted recently that Buffalo has facilities sized for 2x the population (peak was over 500K in the city limits, about half that now). Thus, plenty of park space, huge library system (on hard times now, but still convenient branches everywhere). If you like boating, the facilities are very reasonable on the lakes, and so on. If you really want a big city it's hard to beat Toronto, a couple of hours to the north.

      Freeway system (ring road and a few others) is sized for much more traffic, no jams to speak of, 20 minutes to about anywhere in the area. Side benefit is little or no road rage, drivers are remarkably courteous. NY State has had a policy of adding wide walk/bike shoulders when roads are rebuilt for probably 20 years now--conditions for bicycling in many parts of the area are very good (although ice in winter stops all but the most hardy).

      The western NY area (Buffalo & suburbs) didn't participate in the housing bubble, prices just keep going up at a few % per year. Didn't have a housing crash either.

    3. Re:What about... by dosius · · Score: 1

      And we got much more reasonable rent to boot. :>?

      -uso.

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
  27. Buffalo was considered "D E A D" (take a read) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Buffalo, however, has suffered de-indistrialization at such a tragic amount that it is likely they have excess capacity easily available" - by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03, @04:19PM (#33778416)

    Well, "fellow A/C": I agree with you, & know this about what's in my subject-line above: I've heard it TONS OF TIMES over the decades now in fact, & mainly because my bro used to spend CONSIDERABLE time there (military duty iirc, reserves while he was in school, now he's an officer (Major)). I heard the same directly too, as I interviewed there with M&T Bank in Buffalo for a VB6-to-Delphi7 conversion of some of their software they used not TOO many years ago in fact (iirc, 2006 or thereabouts)...

    Fact is, & a lot of folks I knew, back circa 1995-2008, used to say: "Buffalo is a DYING town" etc./et al.

    So, based on THAT much per what's in my subject-line & what YOU stated about power excesses etc.?

    Well - I am willing to bet you that the tax break offered 'beat out' that which was offered by other states in the Union with similar possible benefits.

    APK

    P.S.=> Now, what they are NOT telling you, at least I did not see it, & what I am betting is, is this: NOWADAYS, most companies do NOT "buy" plant/property/equipment - they LEASE!

    I would be willing to bet you that YAHOO did the same, which means they are not "tied down" and can take off, anytime they like... anyone taking bets here on that?

    (Top that off with cheaper power, cheap land, & the fact it is/was an "economically depressed area", which means folks will take LOWER PAYRATES too than most of the nation for the same types of jobs? You get, what you get (YAHOO in BUFFALO))...

    My guess here is that is probably what "broke the camel's back" as far as competing with say, the likes of N. Dakota as you point out...

    HOWEVER, AGAIN - Because of leasing, again though? Hey - who knows?? One day, they MAY move from Buffalo to N.Dakota! You never know! Leasing plant/property/equipment instead of OWNING IT? Seems to be "the general trend" and a "smart move" that allows MOBILITY for businesses, and again/once more - many businesses nowadays? They practice EXACTLY that! apk

  28. Buffalo is close enough. by toby · · Score: 1

    We had a long hot Summer this year in Toronto, It's only really cooled down in the past couple of weeks.

    Not sure where the "no Summer" business comes from. Even Winter only lasts 4 months in TO.

    --
    you had me at #!
    1. Re:Buffalo is close enough. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Since the OP mentioned battery blankets and block heaters, I very much doubt he's from Toronto. He's likely one of us real Canadians who roll our eyes when someone says how cold Canada is and someone from Toronto says "no, Toronto isn't that cold!" ;)

  29. I believe that'd be "the one" (iirc)... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, I think that was the name in fact (iirc): I'd never been there before, & I was sort of tired too, but I am fairly sure you "got it right" man!

    Heh - while there, lol, my brother played a bit of a joke on me:

    He got me an order of those TREMENDOUSLY hot wings (the ones with the tiny blackish peppers in them).

    He said IF I could eat 24 of them in the time we were there/in 1 sitting? He'd pay me $50!

    (On a bet, he didn't think I could do it, as he didn't think I liked hot food and I don't really... not like HE does @ least)

    Well, I did, but I think my lips were actually burned from it. Yes, it actually was painful, but not SO bad if you just eat them all @ once, fast!

    APK

    P.S.=> On a "side-note", on the Audi the owner got for his wife? The place where the owner's wife's Audi R8 was parked (just like "IRON MAN/Tony Stark's" ride from the hit 2008 film IRON MAN) in front right near the door?

    Heh, the spot LITERALLY says "Mrs. XXXX's parking spot"!

    I thought that was cool, and to buy one of those massively NICE sports cars CO$T$ LARGE... To think that chicken wings did that, bought a car like that, eh? apk

    1. Re:I believe that'd be "the one" (iirc)... apk by penguinchris · · Score: 1

      Anchor Bar is hugely popular in the area, and there's even a second Anchor Bar restaurant at the Buffalo airport. They sell the sauce in grocery stores (I don't know how widely they're distributed, but I believe they have them in Wegmans in Rochester, don't know about Syracuse).

      Really it shouldn't take much to do really well here in Buffalo. Locally-owned restaurants are a particularly lucrative business, I imagine, since there's so little else to do in the area and some of the national chains (which are crap compared to these local places) are closing down around here.

      That said, I went to school in Rochester (UR) and then grad school in California - I'm only back in Buffalo, where I grew up, "living in my mom's basement" as it were until I can find a job. It won't be a job in the Buffalo area... it's really not a great place to live, at least for me.

      As someone else noted - this is an obvious place to build things like datacenters, because not only is it cold, but literally most of the buildings are vacant, at least in Buffalo itself (some of the suburbs are doing a lot better) and rent is cheap.

    2. Re:I believe that'd be "the one" (iirc)... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You better SHUT UP and stop DISAGREEING with ME, because I know EVERYTHING there is to know about EVERYTHING, and I'll HARASS THE SHIT OUT OF YOU if you think you know more than me about ANYTHING. I don't care if you DO have a degree in physics, I will INSIST that you are WRONG and I am RIGHT. And If I AM WRONG, I will simply TROLL EVERY POST YOU MAKE so that you will eventually GIVE UP in FRUSTRATION and say I AM RIGHT just to SHUT ME UP.
      APK

  30. 100 jobs by Chicken_Kickers · · Score: 1

    100 jobs may not seem that much, but for small town it is significant. It means, 100 people plus probably another 50 to 90 spouses + another 20 to 100 kids (all numbers pulled out of my ass) will either continue to stay there, or better, move in. That's at least another 200 people extra. This means that schools, shops, petrol stations, the post office etc. can still remain open and the town won't turn into a one garage ghost town. Most of them will also want their own houses, so that's another benefit to the local economy.

    1. Re:100 jobs by hex0D · · Score: 1

      I totally agree, I was just trying to point out that TFA seems too exuberant about future prospects, and while happy for them, that isn't the aspect of the story myself and the majority of /. readers care about.

  31. Again? by nanospook · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So Eastman Kodak misses yet another opportunity?

    --
    Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
  32. The Industry by furgle · · Score: 1

    People you don't know, from companies that don't exist. A group of entities that never was. The industry exists only to put interest in things, new and happening things you have never heard of. In this case it is "a lot".

    Join "The Industry" today, and disappear into the ether.

  33. Few jobs from this and what to do about it by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    For guarding these (not that I like the idea):
        "South Korea's Machine Gun Sentry Robot"
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5YftEAbmMQ

    And see James P. Hogan's "The Two Faces of Tomorrow" (1979) for a good depiction of maintenance drones that repair and extend a computer network.
        http://www.jamesphogan.com/books/book.php?titleID=28
        http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0671878484/0671878484.htm

    So, in the long term, there are even fewer jobs from this than you pessimistically (but accurately) predict.

    We need to rethink the fundamentals of an economy based on the idea of work-or-starve even as our economy can produce endless goods and services easily now using robotics and other automation, better design, and voluntary social networks... Some ideas I put together on that are here:
        http://knol.google.com/k/paul-d-fernhout/beyond-a-jobless-recovery#Four_long(2D)term_heterodox_alternatives

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  34. Not in Buffalo by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

    The data center is not actually in Buffalo but rather some distance to the East in Lockport. In additional to the climate advantages, I'm sure Yahoo is getting some nice tax rebates considering the depressed economic situation of the area and the production at the local Delphi plant which was the biggest employer in the salad days.

    --
    I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
  35. And -real- wings too! by awtbfb · · Score: 1

    Mmm... Duff's.

  36. It's the cheap power, probably by drdrgivemethenews · · Score: 1

    Locating near any power plant, whether it be coal or hydro, will get you huge discounts in power costs, because the utility doesn't have to support a grid to get it to you, and your demand load is pretty predictable.

    Any northern climate will do better in terms of natural air cooling, but Buffalo is a poor choice on that front, because all the weather sweeping in over the Great Lakes makes the air quite humid. You want dry cold air for maximum cooling effectiveness.

  37. Finally... by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    ...Upstate NY weather recognized as an advantage.
    Obnoxiously hot always did seem to bother me more than obnoxiously cold; I suppose that would hold even more true for servers that needed to be cooled as well.

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  38. NOT Buffalo by Chris.Nelson · · Score: 1

    Lockport isn't even a suburb of Buffalo.

  39. because internet sucks in Canada by biggknifeparty · · Score: 1

    The Internet sucks in Canada, that's why. It's slow and expensive, just like our 20th century trains.

  40. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Believe it or not, the Buffalo area is well equiped to handle the needs of the most complex data center. Every tier 1 ISP has a major presence here. Remember the best fiber route to the largest set of cities in Canada (Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal)comes through Buffalo. There is a large number of highly skilled IT professionals employed here (yeah, I know it's hard to believe, but true). One earlier post mentioned Buffalo gets better latency performance with Europe than Silicon Valley does, it is precicsly for that reason. Most if not all of the international based ISPs that do business in US have a presence here because of the Canadian proximity.

    As previoulsy mentioned, the weather here is well suited for the climate control needs of a D/C. Buffalo is usually the 3rd 'snowiest' city in Western NY (Rochester and Syracuse traditionally get more annual snow fall than Buffalo). The main areas in consideration for these D/Cs are north of Buffalo between Niagara Falls and Lockport, with even less snow annually than Buffalo.

    Lastly, the cost of doing business is WAY LESS in Western NY than California. Taxes are taxes are taxes, they are high in both areas. With that being said, power (if you are a large corporation) and land are extremely cheap in comparision. As well as the workforce. We hold the same industry certifications, but the cost of living allows employers to pay far less in wages than the Silicon Valley area, and areas like it across the US.

    PS - chicken wings are the ultimate corporate finger food !!!!

  41. Capital? Hardly... by sunbane · · Score: 1

    1 data center gets built and they are calling themselves the data center capital of the country? Well, Salt Lake just opened EBAY last summer and has Oracle, Twitter, and a 1.3 Billion dollar data center for the NSA under construction and we don't feel qualified to make that statement. You don't see NC claiming that because of the apple one... with the tax rate of New York I hardly see that many businesses moving there!