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Anti-Piracy Lawyers Caught Pirating Each Other

An anonymous reader writes "We would like to think that the lawyers that are prosecuting alleged copyright infringers are practicing what they preach, but it looks like one of the most high profile firms involved in such cases are just as guilty of stealing others' work as those who are downloading illegal media."

36 of 131 comments (clear)

  1. No "creative value" though by siddesu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since there is no creative value in the things they lift from each other, it is hard to argue they are "pirating" it. Can I steal a verb they use, and just call it "stealing"? :)

    Also, the general population surely should be held to higher standards than the scum of the earth.

    1. Re:No "creative value" though by Barrinmw · · Score: 4, Funny

      I dunno...according to apple, all words beginning with i belong to them.

    2. Re:No "creative value" though by cgenman · · Score: 4, Funny

      There is only no creative value in their work if you can convince a judge, who once was a lawyer, that what lawyers do has no creative value.

      I've seen some pretty creative lawyers in my day.

    3. Re:No "creative value" though by Gerzel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No there is a great deal of creative value. Winning these types of cases can mean the difference of millions of dollars and these letters work to win such cases. That is a lot of value. It might not be artistic value but it is still value.

  2. "Illegal media"? by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What the hell is that? And how do you download any sort of media?

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    1. Re:"Illegal media"? by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, I know CDs are a form of media, as are books and cassette tapes, so clearly "illegal media" must be some sort of way to record hot new blockbusters on disks made of a plutonium-cocaine alloy.

    2. Re:"Illegal media"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Plutonium-cocaine is a hell of a drug.

    3. Re:"Illegal media"? by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 5, Funny

      I hear the kids are saying it's pretty rad.

    4. Re:"Illegal media"? by nacturation · · Score: 5, Funny

      I hear the kids are saying it's pretty rad.

      The kids are certainly curieous about it.

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    5. Re:"Illegal media"? by mikerubin · · Score: 3, Funny

      No mod points - sorry
      would someone kindly mod this "funny"?

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    6. Re:"Illegal media"? by euxneks · · Score: 5, Funny

      What the hell is [Illegal media]? And how do you download any sort of media?

      Well, according to dictionary.com, Media is the plural of medium, which is, as we all know, "a person through whom the spirits of the dead are alleged to be able to contact the living". Thus, "Illegal Media" are illegal shaman immigrants. I'm guessing "download" would be to make them carry lots of stuff? I guess making them work isn't that bad..? Unless they start channeling me-maw, then you're in for a world of tongue lashings.

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  3. Ouroboros by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We should encourage this: we can hope they'll fight each other to death, and we can disbar the survivors.

    1. Re:Ouroboros by nacturation · · Score: 5, Funny

      We should encourage this: we can hope they'll fight each other to death, and we can disbar the survivors.

      And, for good measure, we can then rebar them.

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    2. Re:Ouroboros by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'd rather they be fubar.

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  4. Re:In other news... by siddesu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    True, but copied fully in accord with the fair use doctrine.

  5. Article has problems with facts by Sierran · · Score: 4, Informative

    The article presents the situation as Andrew Crossley being in conflict with ACS:Law over the use of templates. The problem with that is that Andrew Crossley is in fact the proprietor ("principal?" Don't know the correct term) of ACS:Law, so it would be difficult for ACS:Law to steal his work. To quote WikiP: "The main partner of the company, and its only registered solicitor is Andrew Crossley."

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    1. Re:Article has problems with facts by cupantae · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's all just a big misunderstanding. The person with the issue here is another (completely unrelated) man named Andrew, who crossly told them they were stealing from him.

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  6. They probably don't care. by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is no hypocrisy. Their job is to work with their client and defend their IP. They are not required to be passionate nor they have to personalty believe in it, their job is to defend their clients.
         

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    1. Re:They probably don't care. by sjames · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, as officers of the court, their job also includes dissuading their client from suing if they don't have good cause (rather than wasting court resources and everyone's time and money). When the client DOES have good cause their job becomes vigorous representation (either as plaintiff or defendant).

    2. Re:They probably don't care. by sjames · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, they are maintaining that the act of copying without permission rises to a level where the defendant should be smacked down in court for their wrongdoing. Certainly they make that claim while in court as the plaintiff. That is their official position. They then go on to do exactly what they just got finished claiming to be anything but innocent.

      That's what hypocrisy IS, maintaining that others should behave in a particular way (with a claim of sincerity) and then behaving differently yourself. I add the qualifier only because an actor playing a role is not hypocritical if they are not the same as their character.

    3. Re:They probably don't care. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Except lawyers, as officers of the court, are supposed to look at a client's case and make a first-look decision whether or not they should even bother bringing the case to court. Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with the law, its a matter of "hundreds of these cases are either lost or simply settled out of court. Unless you have some rock-solid, smoking-gun evidence, I have to dissuade you from bringing this to court."

  7. Re:Noel Jerry by nloop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hate you and I hate your lame attempts at increasing your pagerank. You are the scum of the earth.
     
    Also, your website looks terrible. When I opened it I assumed you linked to the wrong page and that was a domain filler. Really bad graphic design.
     
    Now, kindly go away.

  8. The FA is a joke! by ygasuasu · · Score: 2, Informative

    FTFA: Andrew Crossly claims that the firm contacted him for help, which he provided, but instead of just using his templates as a guide, ACS:Law began to use them as their own without consent. The name is Andrew Crossley. From Wikipedia article on ACS:Law: The main partner of the company, and its only registered solicitor,] is Andrew Crossley. How could ACS:Law steal from its main partner?

  9. Re:They are just proving their greatness by gutnor · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, he could have had better taste when stealing.

  10. Re:Not as bad as it sounds by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're forgetting that it's completely possible to steal money (the pirates money) that only exists in the future of an alternate dimension where the artist/business made more money. Also, if a sale could ever have occurred and something prevented it from happening, potential profit was stolen and whoever made this sale not happen should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!

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  11. A More Factually Correct Article by Fnord666 · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you want to read about what is actually going on, please see this article. The article linked in the summary is riddled with factual inaccuracies.

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    1. Re:A More Factually Correct Article by wvmarle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Interesting, thanks for the link.

      Maybe the best line in that article:

      It turns out that the settlement letter business is terrible for the corporate image.

      This may explain why there are so few law firms actually involved in the settlement business, which in a way reeks of easy money. All they have to do to get settlements, it seems, is sending out those letters. The law is pretty much on their side, and most people don't have the resources let alone the guts to take it to court.

      However with this much public backlash I would hope it's a matter of time before no law firm dares to pick up the tab any more, and even the RIAA and it's international counterparts don't want to do it themselves any more due to the strong reactions. And with that I don't mean just being DOSed by Anonymous.

      The true change will of course have to wait until public opinion has gone far enough that mainstream politicians can gain political points (and votes) by arguing for file sharing legalisation. And that point will be quite a while off.

    2. Re:A More Factually Correct Article by opposabledumbs · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except the law is not on their side. This is from an article about this on Wired.com, though, so you're welcome to take it from whence it comes.

      the basic gist of this is that in the UK, where these guys have been practicing, there is no statutory claim to damages, and the lawyers in the UK system in a case like this would usually be able to claim only as much as the retail price of one item in damages. That would mean 75p in the case of a single downloaded music track.

      The law firms are sending letters of demand for much more than this, and sending them to people in financial difficulty - who cannot afford to get legal representation, and who often pay up to make it go away. Hearing about massive damages awarded in cases similar to this in the States probably is a factor.

      The lawyers typically don't go after people who haven't paid, and bring them to court. But one of them is considering moving from the UK to the US just because of the statuary damages angle that RIAA have managed to make law.

      The wired article is here -http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/10/the-legal-blackmail-business/ - so everyone can ignore that one, as well, and write whatever comments they feel.

  12. Jason Scott by doronbc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    just talked about this in his defcon talk, "You’re Stealing it Wrong" http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2714

    1. Re:Jason Scott by Ihmhi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I just wanted to say thanks for pointing that video out to me. I had never heard of Jason Scott and I found his talk very interesting, even though it was over an hour long. I'll definitely be checking his site out: http://textfiles.com/.

  13. Re:You Don't say by hawguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    /.'rs are hypocrites. Just watch their arguments about rights when it comes to open source software. Than watch them support illegal downloading.

    Actually, the open software advocates you're referring to are consistent -- I don't think you'll hear any of them saying that someone should be able to incorporate downloaded MP3's into commercial products that are then resold to others. They are absolutely fine with open source software being downloaded and used for free, where they have problems is when the open source software is incorporated into other products and sold rather than given away for free. So there's no double standard.

    Of course, many (most?) open source software advocates (myself included) don't bother with downloading illegal content because it's easier to go to Amazon or iTunes and click the "Buy" button than to track down a torrent with a full and complete copy of the music we want to listen to. Once people get out of college and realize that their time costs money, the cost to pirate music exceeds the benefit for many people. There are, of course, the hardcore downloaders that download every album known to man in the genres they are interested in, but hey, it's not like they would have bought those 2000 albums so the music industry isn't losing much real income..

  14. Re:You Don't say by Again · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Possibly some of us who frequent slashdot are hypocrites. But to label everyone who visits slashdot as a hypocrite is quite arrogant.

    There are in fact quite a few different individuals who post here and people tend to post in articles that interest them. Some days it seems as though nearly every user hear uses nothing but Linux. Other days it seems as though everyone is talking about the benefits of Windows 7. You see? There is no one opinion here. And to claim that there should be is ridiculous.

  15. Re:You Don't say by pgmrdlm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Possibly some of us who frequent slashdot are hypocrites. But to label everyone who visits slashdot as a hypocrite is quite arrogant.

    Can't argue your point. You are quite correct. It just seems the hypocrites are the most vocal.

    I stand corrected and apologize.

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  16. Re:You Don't say by pgmrdlm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My point about most slash dot open source advocates(which I am one) is they will be the first to sick the lawyers on anyone they feel is not respecting the rights of the authors of said software. But they will be the first to disrespect the work of musicians, movie personnel, or game personnel by illegally downloading their content.

    Don't you find it hypocritical that this thread like most threads do nothing but trash lawyers. But what profession do they automatically run to when they are pissed off over a specific subject and THEIR reading of the law?

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  17. Re:You Don't say by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Don't you find it hypocritical that this thread like most threads do nothing but trash lawyers. But what profession do they automatically run to when they are pissed off over a specific subject and THEIR reading of the law?

    No, not really. Because the organization that typically pursues violations of the GPL etc. in the US is the EFF and they have a very solid reputation for trying to solve matters in an amicable fashion first. Only when the other party categorically refuses to play ball do they start involving the justice system.

    There is a group of people that feel they have the right to download anything and everything on the planet. There's also a group of people that supports open source and doesn't appreciate it when the license under which it is distributed gets violated. Both of these groups can be found on Slashdot, but that does not mean they consist of the same individual people.

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  18. Re:Noel Jerry by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    He's not trying to increase his page rank. Slashdot adds rel=nofollow to all links in comments, so linking from Slashdot doesn't help there. He's trying to make people click (which you did), probably to infect them with some malware (but, of course, you run Linux and browse with Lynx, so you're safe).

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