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Valve Announces Dota 2
RulerOf writes "Just over a year after hiring IceFrog, the lead developer of the wildly popular DotA Allstars mod for Warcraft III, and the speculation surrounding Valve's recent trademark filing for the 'DotA' name, Valve has officially announced Dota 2. Gameplay of Dota 2 is being ported 'exactly' from the current DotA Allstars and includes every hero, but vast improvements are being made to the game including VoIP, a coaching system, in-game rewards, and AI that takes over for disconnected players. Lastly, it all runs on top of the Source engine. (GameInformer's website appears to be struggling right now though, as they had an exclusive on this story.)"
I wonder if Valve will make this another freebie a la Alien Swarm.
http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com/2010/10/truth.html
Seems valve may have known a little more than they let on when they hired Mr frog.
What the hell is a DotA?
Please, if you are going to use an acronym in a news post, especially one that may be a mod many are not familiar with, follow common courtesy and spell it out the first time it is used.
I had to click on the link and visit a page with information about a mod for a game I haven't played in YEARS.
Will there be a new basshunter song? :D
Wouldn't a better title be: Valve doesn't announce episode three after years of delays.
DotA is dying, and it's dying because there are already next generation replacements for it. A few years ago, the entire custom game list on Warcraft III would have been almost full of DotA and maybe a couple other games hosted here and there. These days it can take several minutes just to get a full game setup.
For those who actually enjoyed the way DotA played and the associated content there is already a complete replacement with Heroes of Newerth. Which pretty much is what Valve is talking about making here. And for those who were actually looking for something different than a straight DotA clone, League of Legends actually makes an effort to change the game up in meaningful ways. Most significantly by throwing out the Warcraft III stat system.
So despite Valve's track record, I'm not optimistic in their approach on this. I really doubt people want DotA yet again with a few enhancements. I think a 3rd generation sequel would have a lot more chance than a 1st generation remake. Unless they make more than trivial improvements in infrastructure this is not going to draw the players who are already in this market. Maybe they stand a chance for getting some new players, those not already involved in the MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) games. It would have been nice to see Valve actually do some research before trying to jump blindly into this.
Fear is the mind killer.
Dota 2 is being ported 'exactly' from the current DotA Allstars [...] but vast improvements are being made to the game including VoIP, a coaching system, in-game rewards, and AI that takes over for disconnected players.
Sounds more like a quick cash-in than anything else. This is just as bad as the rebranding of EA's annual sports games. But it's valve. They get a free pass on this kind of bullshit for whatever reason.
I've never heard of Dota or played Warhammer III; I do, however, have Steam installed and own all of Valve's games. It's not just existing Dota players who this will be aimed at, it's people like me.
n/t.
Skill based matching? Shades of SC2. Everything you do is tied back to your one true identity? Uh oh. I've been playing dota for something like six or seven years now. I *like* the fact that anyone can host a game (especially now that bots have made this process hassle-free) and I *like* the fact that anyone can roll up a new bnet account in a few seconds. I've never been banned for anything, so it's not ban avoidance or dodging a bad reputation that I'm after. I like not always being the same person in every game. I like getting in to games with people far more skilled than I am! Yes, I lose badly, but I always learn something about play techniques that goes on to improve my game. How much can you learn if you can always compete with those you play against? All that teaches you is that you don't have to change anything and you'll do fine.
I love getting in to games with the skilled players, the ones who can read your mind and are always up for a gank. Will I be relegated to the equivalent of pub mashups because of that one game where I fed like thanksgiving?
I've played LoL and HoN so I know what can happen when you try to clone DoTA. Little things being different can make a large difference in gameplay: towers in HoN don't act quite right, nor is the right click interaction the same. When cloning the cloners are never content to just copy a good thing, they always *ALWAYS* try to 'fix' things they think are broken... usually with unintentionally awful side effects. Part of what I, and other dota players, like about dota is going to be lost if it becomes a hosted by a single central authority, requires a monthly fee to play, subjects you to "reputation" requirements before you can enter good games, or any one of a dozen other things that seem like good ideas from the outside.
I like the idea of an updated dota client (war3 is a bit cumbersome!) but I worry about any big change. One nice thing about icefrog is that he doesn't change a lot of things at once, even when there's a big, sweeping change it's incremental. Since this is valve-based I'm presuming that means steam, and I hate steam in general. Will there be LAN play? Will we be able to host our own servers?
How will things like OMG mode be supported? This is by far the most popular sub-mode of DoTA at the moment and with the keys to the kingdom locked up in a non-user-editable valve proprietary game I don't think OMG would ever have been developed. I certainly hope valve plans to support this in dota2, along with the built in but less common modes (id, sc, hell even wtf).
tl;dr I'm worried by this, but I'd like to be happy about it. I just hope it's as good in every way as the existing dota.
I want my Cowboyneal
I completely agree, and would like to add that if people just want DotA with VoIP, better graphics, etc... they can just play it on StarCraft 2 custom maps.
The DotA community on Battlenet was killed by Blizzard, when they began banning people with no possibility for appeal for using the 3rd party tools necessary to making a decent game on battle.net possible. Tools like visual custom kick and banlist became bannable offenses, but they were pretty much necessary to have a game on battlenet that wasn't full of laggers, leavers, and griefers. The more serious players moved to 3rd party services/leagues, and the casual players quit or moved to League of Legends or Heroes of Newerth. I haven't played Heroes of Newerth since beta, but to call it a drop in replacement for Dota was pretty far fetched, Dota relies on extremely fine tuned RTS and pathing mechanics, that wc3 provides, and that simply didn't exist in HoN when I played.
Why take a risk on a new market when you have an established one? Gaming companies are just as risk-averse as movie-makers are. If they think they have a formula that works, they will use it until it fails.
...If this DotA gets as stats-oriented as Heroes of Newerth, for example, then I can only imagine what'll happen when someone disconnects and the AI takes over for them - and promptly feeds, or pushes solo, or wanders off to farm neuts for the rest of the game, or whatever else it can do to screw the team. This style of game takes a lot of decision-making - targets, farm, push/no push, cc, etc. I don't think an AI can really pull it off properly.
Never underestimate the potential of Human stupidity. -Heinlein
What the hell is a DotA?
Please, if you are going to use an acronym in a news post, especially one that may be a mod many are not familiar with, follow common courtesy and spell it out the first time it is used.
While you raise a good question (plenty of people don't know what DotA is, of course!), concerns like this are the reason that I included a link to the Wikipedia article upon the first mention of DotA in the submission, as well as some context around said link for those too lazy to click through.
DotA Allstars (DotA is short for Defense of the Ancients) is the world's most popular, most well balanced, and most refined incarnation of a very popular genre of RTS custom maps that began with a Starcraft map called Aeon of Strife that can collectively be referred to as the "AoS genre." However, though AoS was quite popular in its day (and I remember seeing the games on Battle.net, but never played them!), it was plagued with balance issues, particularly in the first Warcraft III incarnations by the same name; those maps were basically won by padding your hero's agility stat and adding a lifestealing attack.... they were kinda stupid, but very fun nonetheless.
Where AoS variants such as DotA differ from traditional RTS games is that instead of building and commanding a base and an army and its leaders (or heroes) and assaulting the opposite team to destroy its base, players instead control only the hero characters and the rest of the army that fights alongside you is completely controlled by the computer. You and your teammates then fight in this battle, killing enemy units and teaming up to gank (i.e. surprise and kill by abusing superior numbers, powerups, skills, whatever) enemy heroes for gold and experience, buying items and equipment to enhance your hero's stats, buff your team, or counter your opponents. The back and forth struggle is extremely teamwork oriented and incredibly fun, and playing the game with people who are all of a high skill level is quite possibly one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had in gaming, even when I've lost!
I could go on and on about the awesomeness that the game is, but if you like games that require teamwork and skill (and don't involve any of the pervasive bullshit that has saturated FPS games since Counter-Strike became popular... "You aim at the chest and pull down on the mouse when you start shooting and get a HEADSHOT errrytime! CROUCH, CROUCH!") that are constantly improving, then you ought to give it a try. Bringing true DotA out of the Warcraft III engine and into modern times has been a dream of mine for a very long time, and though a game like Heroes of Newerth is a faithful clone, it's still not perfect from a gameplay perspective. It behaves considerably differently and the action is considerably faster, which I don't consider a good thing, though it is a great game itself.
If you found any of that interesting, I do recommend giving it a try. You'll get wtfpwned for a while, but once you get your first triple kill, you'll never look back.
Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
I'm worried this will end up being like Counter-Strike: Source.
I think this is less about building a larger and more refined experience, and more about introducing the game to a broader audience. I play a ~lot~ of games, and I think I heard about DOtA once in passing, and paid it no mind, since it was a mod on an game I hadn't played in years.
So you're right... It might not really be what current DOtA players really want. However, as a business move, and a strategic move for championing the genre, it's probably a good move to make.
I disagree to about 90% of this. Yes, DoTA has less following than it did, say, 3 years ago, but it is still very solid. It is my crack -- literally, I need therapy. I've been playing DoTA Allstars since 2004 (and there is an ancient, older WC3 DoTA that's not Allstars, but the one that's madly popular is Allstars -- technically, if you just say "DoTA" you mean the much older version that doesn't focus on heroes and that's less popular, but now, "DoTA" has come to mean "DoTA Allstars" and the "Allstars" part is left off; "Allstars" basically means, "This is Defense of The Ancient with a focus on powerful Heroes" whereas, the older version did not put focus on heroes, and focused more on the marching creeps -- both have creeps.... of course, all of this is played within the WC3 engine, and DoTA non-Allstars was based on RoC, whereas, Allstars came with the advent of TFT.... /digress). It is/was the germination of a new gaming genre, and that says a lot. Games that come along which found new genres are rare, and DoTA is one. The new genre (MOBA), I first heard this year. It is now fielded by LoL, et al., but it's first incarnation was DoTA.
... the game has staying power that only a few games in history aspire to. So, no, it isn't dying by any stretch, and the next generation games have made a dent, but not a big one. Yes, there were more games a few years ago, but you can easily find a DoTA game at any time of day 24x7, and at times, there are many listed. Players have done tons to improve the WC3 DoTA playing experience (the game managing bots, vote kicks, etc.). If they will get the drop/leaver reconnects fixed (as I heard they have been working on), then I see WC3 DoTA living on much longer.
... still used in the 1960 and 70s.... LoL was/is too complicated to me, and I get tired of every single game now associating leveling with the mechanics of another genre (do I really need to level my account that logs me in to play a single game? Yes, in LoL you do ... Maybe I should implement levels to user accounts at work -- "congratulations! this is your 50th login. You are now level 4!).
... the moniker will always be around. I question just how much DoTA you have played/play. As for me, I'm hitting a game when I finish this post. Please don't tell me group counselor....
The versions are coming out slower for sure, but 6.69 just came out, and I've had no problem finding games. I play on East Coast. Anyhow, DoTA has been strong with good population for over five years now by my personal account, and I don't see it going away. Even with the crappy leavers ruining games, even with the drawbacks of the old WC3 engine
I've played LoL. It didn't stick. The archetypal heroes of the genre will forever be WC3 DoTA characters, and no matter what happens 2, 3, 5 years from now in this genre, it'll find it's roots in the legendary engine of WC3, and in the grass-roots, players driven mod of DoTA Allstars. (And unlike these replacements, after you purchase WC3, it's friggin totally free).
The WC3 game engine is among the elite, and ranks up there with Quake as something that changed gaming history, and is still in use. It's like a friggin Sherman ww2 tank
What other game and game engine made so long ago has a solid following, and allows you to join a 10 man-game at any time of day for over 5 or 6 years? WC3 DoTA is rare.... (ok, ok, Everquest deadheads)....
I really doubt people want DotA yet again
Whether DoTA continues on the WC3 engine or takes off with Valve
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
This is correct. HoN is the viable DotA alternative today, but still not as good in many ways. Nothing beats the experience of straight DotA, if you can get a fucking game going. These days bots take care of most of the administrative hassle.
I want my Cowboyneal
DotA, HoN and LoL all suffer from very intolerant and LOLretardedLOLWTFKEKEKE communities that actually scare players away (and thus potential customers) I suspect DotA2 will fail at fixing that.
Fun, you mean?
That is a very important question. Heroes of Newerth did some really cool things that can't be matched by typical RTS P2P play. First and foremost, its impossible to maphack because the netcode doesn't send information for units in fog of war, that information residing only on the server. You'd have to hack their servers to gain that exploit. They also have a reconnect feature where, say, if your comp restarts and you log back in, you are prompted to rejoin the game. These alone make it a much better experience than DotA. The only thing DotA 2 seems to have going for it over HoN is AI and coaching system (which is admittedly needed because the game has a very steep learning curve). LoL has the in-game rewards part covered.
We'll see how tihs pans out.
WarCraft III, not Warhammer III.
Played DotA? A lot in my opinion. Over 1000 games hosted by me easily. Usually don't join other peoples games since the latency benefit is nice to have, even with custom host utilities. I have my own customized build of the ghost hosting program, with a couple extra features (based on the already customized build someone else provides). Not even sure my bot will work with b.net anymore though.
And I'll admit, I don't play any more, at all. Last game would have been at least a few months ago. I've moved on to the new MOBA's clearly from the tone in my post. The last time I tried to play DotA was something like 3:30 am so maybe I'm wrong about how strong the community actually is.
Fear is the mind killer.
The GoldSrc and Source engines, for one. Counter-Strike (GoldSrc engine, from 12 years ago) still has something like 40,000-60,000 concurrent players at any given time, according to Valve's Steam stats. Its remake, Counter-Strike: Source (Source engine, from 6 years ago updated to use the 2009 version of the engine) has roughly the same number of concurrent players.
Guess what! The DOTA remake is going to use the same game engine the latter is based on, albeit a newer version of it (likely similar to the one Alien Swarm used).
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Try Monday Night Combat. It's an awesome game that's a cross between a tower defense game and a 3rd person shooting game. There are classes VERY similar to Team Fortress 2, all of which are useful, and it has a great developer supporting it. It's a ton of fun.
Dear friends, help you recommend one side, while playing the game of money, More see: http://lzkooo.gamertest.hop.clickbank.net/
LoL, et al., indeed took some of the pop, but yes, games are still there and easy to find....
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
I've never... played Warhammer III
I think they skipped 3 and went straight to 40000.
The problem with DOTA and HON (I'm not sure about LOL) is that the player base is a bunch of assholes.
No, you misheard. He said "Counter-Strike"... I'm not sure how you could have gotten "fun" from that.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
So now we can expect episode 3 for next year, right?
I looked at the Steam Stats the other day and the #1 game played was CS:S.. i was amazed! Guess what #2 was? plain old CS. Gah! #3 was Modern Warfare 2.
http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
There's also League of Legends, which is mostly DotA.
Hey don't blame me, IANAB
No, thanks, I already get enough "in-game coaching" every time I pick up a DOTA clone...
"WTF U FUKIN NOOB!!"
"OMG NOOB"
"WTFWTFWTF?????"
Those who assume DotA is dying haven't played on Garena lately.
Several minutes for a game is ludicrous, I can't remember the last time I waited one minute. Higher quality of play and less leavers (where I live, Australia) anyway.
i extend my middle finger to you for calling Defense of the Ancients "Dota". i went looking for a game called Dota (no such game exists).
This is how you should have introduced the acronym for Defense of the Ancients (DotA). i wrote it in full and put the acronym in parentheses, showing that i'll be referring to it as DotA from now on. Further more, you made the acronym look like a word/name by leaving the A in lower case. If the A was capitalized the reader would know they are looking at an abbreviation. Or you could have gone with the less elegant DOTA. i prefer to show prepositions, conjunctions and articles as lower case. This tells the reader that o stands for on or of or somesuch. LotR hints that the ot means 'of the' or 'on the', and not Lord Operations Tactical Recon. /descriptivist excuse making in 3... 2... 1....
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!