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New Video of Apple's Enormous iDataCenter

1sockchuck writes "A new aerial video provides a rare look at Apple's new data center in North Carolina, which is expected to begin operations as soon as this week. It reveals the scale of the facility, which at 500,000 square feet will be among the world's largest data centers. The video, shot by a North Carolina real estate agent, also shows additional site preparation work that could support rumors that Apple plans to build another huge data center at the site." This is what drone cameras are for.

182 comments

  1. I just hope... by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1, Funny

    I just hope no one holds the database wrong.

    --
    Whenever in an argument, remember this.
    1. Re:I just hope... by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      Wow, how did you come up with that joke!

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    2. Re:I just hope... by Ed_1024 · · Score: 5, Funny

      "The *Fully Operational* iDataCenter", even though it appears half-built. I'm sure I heard someone use a phrase like that before, can't think where...

    3. Re:I just hope... by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1

      I tried real hard. Hey, at least I didn't go Firs# Pos# (I promised myself never to utter those words).

      --
      Whenever in an argument, remember this.
  2. Observation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Why does the video have sound?

  3. Rare? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Rare aerial video? Is there a square meter of the Earth's surface that hasn't been flown over and photographed in the last month?

    So Apple's building a datacenter. Good for them; it'll join all their other datacenters, Apple and otherwise, around the world

    . News, for nerds or otherwise, this isn't.

    1. Re:Rare? by frozentier · · Score: 1

      Is there a square meter of the Earth's surface that hasn't been flown over and photographed in the last month?

      Actually yes, you can find censored sat/aerial photos all over the place.

    2. Re:Rare? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your response does not contradict the initial question. Being flown over, photographed, and then censored is not mutually exclusive with being flown over and photographed.

  4. What will go in it? by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Will they load it up with xserve?
    I wonder if Apple is the biggest customer for Xserves?

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:What will go in it? by jcr · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apple has always been the biggest customer for Xserve. Not sure what they're using now, but when the iTMS store was launched, all of the machines serving the store pages in iTunes were Xserves, with some combination of Sun and IBM systems to run the back-end order processing SAP services.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:What will go in it? by helix2301 · · Score: 1

      I would like to find pictures of the inside just for curiosity. I am sure the whole place is Xserves but I would like to see there layout and rack setup.

  5. My god! by arcite · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's full of Apples.

  6. vacation Louisiana by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    "among the world's largest data centers"

    But nowhere near the top500.org, which is what counts for nerds.

    So, speculationally, it will support the iPad cloud? 6 million fumbling feromonal fingers trying to type "vacation Louisiana", but no weather simulations. Sad.

    1. Re:vacation Louisiana by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I had no idea top500 was about datacenters... I thought they were about raw-processing power, not storage. Or are they?

    2. Re:vacation Louisiana by node+3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I had no idea top500 was about datacenters...

      You're right, it's not. It's about supercomputers. The first one on the Top 500 list I could find information on regarding area was #4, Kraken. It's only 2,000 square feet. OP just needed an excuse to put down the iPad, lest he risk loosing the "leet" 3's in his his username.

    3. Re:vacation Louisiana by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Supercomputers reside in data centers, but a small percentage of data centers house supercomputers.

      Don't worry, your vain attempt to sound superior to all things Apple didn't shine through AT ALL.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    4. Re:vacation Louisiana by Wovel · · Score: 1

      I think most nerds would be concerned about your complete lack of understanding your own words.

  7. Design is awful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    How can that be the apple datacenter !

    1. Re:Design is awful by joh · · Score: 5, Funny

      Back in the day when Steve Jobs had been fired from Apple and was building his own company (NeXT) he had the interior of the factory in which NeXTStations were built re-painted three times -- until it was *just* the right shade of grey. And this is not a joke.

    2. Re:Design is awful by DCstewieG · · Score: 1

      Yeah it's just begging for a backlit Apple logo on the roof, lighting up the sky like the Luxor.

    3. Re:Design is awful by nopainogain · · Score: 1

      Those who have had enough exposure to steve jobs' insanity know you're not joking.

    4. Re:Design is awful by ejasons · · Score: 1


      Those who have had enough exposure to steve jobs' insanity know you're not joking.

      What is one person's insanity is another's attention to detail...

  8. What OS? by StripedCow · · Score: 1

    What OS will their servers run?

    --
    If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    1. Re:What OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, Mac OSX. You do know they have a server version, right?

    2. Re:What OS? by mjh2901 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple ran solaris for years and then eventually moved to OS X, when they did that some of there employees at mac world refered to eating there own dog food. OS X is BSD, and server can run without a UI, They probably will run the whole thing on OSX, mind you they will probably be optimizing the stack.

    3. Re:What OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Can't say how I know, but they're mostly using Solaris and AIX with non-Apple backend storage.

      And it went online on Thursday.

    4. Re:What OS? by rhook · · Score: 1

      OS X is Mach, not BSD.

    5. Re:What OS? by mattjb0010 · · Score: 1

      The kernel is a Mach-BSD hybrid, and the userland is based on BSD.

    6. Re:What OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Listen you fucking shit eater, MacOSX is a port of BSD. The whole fucking thing. MAch is a microkernel and XNU (what apple calls its shitpile of a kernel) is nothing but a monolithic BSD kernel with a few tweaks. After all, it was easier to port BSD than to fix MacOS9.

    7. Re:What OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BSD/Mach, thank you very much.

    8. Re:What OS? by benedict · · Score: 1

      No. OS X is Mach, *and* is BSD. These things are not mutually exclusive.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU

      --
      Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
    9. Re:What OS? by ndege · · Score: 1

      OS X is Mach, not BSD

      sorta. OS X is both Mach and BSD.

      The kernel is Mach, the OS is based on BSD (net and free).

      Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X#History

      --
      Sig Return: 204 No Content
    10. Re:What OS? by fnj · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sigh, no to both posters, OS X is neither Mach nor BSD. It is built on XNU, a hybrid kernel built on Mach, with BSD bits to provide the Unix process model, POSIX API, the network stack, file systems, and some other goodies. The BSD bits were adapted from FreeBSD with significant modifications. There is also something called I/O Kit to provide drivers, and this part is unique to OS X.

      XNU has been greatly developed from the original created by NeXTSTEP. The Mach part has been changed from Mach 2.5 to Mach 3.0, the BSD part has been changed from 4.3BSD to FreeBSD as a base, and Driver Kit has become I/O Kit.

  9. obligatory by arcite · · Score: 5, Funny

    Steve Jobs: [overheard on an iphone in a coffee shop somewhere in Cupertino] ...As you can see, my young apprentice, your friends have failed. Now witness the streaming power of this fully STACKED and OPERATIONAL data center!

  10. What will go in it?-RDF. by Ostracus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually that would be a rather good question and at least an opportunity for Apple to gain more enterprise experience not to mention "eating one's own dog food".

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
    1. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by bsDaemon · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe the located in North Carolina to get easy access to Red Hat? /ducks

    2. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by DigitalGodBoy · · Score: 1

      Cheap TVA electricity.

      --
      "liberty and justice for all those who can afford it"
    3. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by knghtrider · · Score: 1

      And Cheap NC Tech Labor..

      --
      In America today you can murder land for private profit. You can leave the corpse for all to see, and nobody calls the c
    4. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by knghtrider · · Score: 1

      The land wasn't so cheap, but probably cheaper than CA.

      --
      In America today you can murder land for private profit. You can leave the corpse for all to see, and nobody calls the c
    5. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Cheap TVA electricity.

      Actually, they are located close to McGuire nuclear power plant (owned by Duke Energy), and near 4 major hydroelectric dams on the Yadkin River that create High Rock Lake, Tuckertown, Badin Lake (Narrows) and Falls lake, which are managed/quazi-owned by Alcoa. Alcoa doesn't make aluminum here anymore, so they have power to sell, and usually do during peak time. There are also a number of coal and natural gas plants nearby. I live about 70 miles from the new data center, and was somewhat surprised that they put it in such a low density area, until I realized how much power capacity is nearby. TVA isn't really a factor in this part of the country, as I believe all the hydro power around here is privately owned.

      Electricity usage in NC is way down, due to all the textile and furniture manufacturing moving to China and India, plus all the aluminum manufacturing is now gone. Those industries were typically BIG consumers of electricity. My understanding is that all the power plants in this region are running well below their peak output, so we literally have more than we know what to do with here. I would imagine that electricity is damn cheap for Apple to buy in bulk, which is a major portion of their expenses.

      Also, it doesn't hurt that NC is located somewhat in the center of the eastern USA, and 2/3rds of the population lives east of the Mississippi river, so it is actually a good location, geographically. The rather new Dell plant near Winston-Salem was just shut down (moved to Mexico), and there has been rumors of Apple buying it for manufacturing as well. There are lots of good reasons that would make sense, since the state spent MILLIONS in new infrastructure to the plant just a few years ago, and the workforce around here is generally good with a manufacturing history, AND both UPS and FedEx have major hubs about 30 minutes away at GSO. Would love to see that happen, only because we need the jobs with over 10% unemployment here.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    6. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The rather new Dell plant near Winston-Salem was just shut down (moved to Mexico), and there has been rumors of Apple buying it for manufacturing as well.

      As great as this would be, I'll believe it when I see it. I just can't imagine that an organization as big as Apple would be so forward thinking as recognizing that the cost of doing business overseas is often not realized immediately. Especially since those costs may never be realized by the people running the company -- a lot of the the price is paid by people living in that area, e.g., look what happened to Flint, Michigan after GM closed its plant, almost overnight the crime-rate skyrocketed. GM didn't have to pay for the social costs of that, the taxpayer is. But the taxpayer is also paying the price in greater carbon emissions, lower quality of life (at least for the unemployed), and loss of tax revenue, etc.

      On the other hand... some of the auto manufacturers have started putting plants in the SE U.S., and if any tech company was going to start a trend, I'd think it would be Apple. And just think of the P.R. campaign they could wage then: Apple: Made in the U.S.A. The copy practically writes itself.

      You're spot on about NC and tech work, they've got the infrastructure already and the research triangle area is already sort of a hub for small-scale technology firms if I recall correctly (e.g. spin-offs from university research, etc.).

      --
      Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
    7. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by dakameleon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Especially since those costs may never be realized by the people running the company -- a lot of the the price is paid by people living in that area, e.g., look what happened to Flint, Michigan after GM closed its plant, almost overnight the crime-rate skyrocketed. GM didn't have to pay for the social costs of that, the taxpayer is. But the taxpayer is also paying the price in greater carbon emissions, lower quality of life (at least for the unemployed), and loss of tax revenue, etc.

      It's called Externalities, and the negative externalities are what taxes are meant to compensate for, though imposing import tariffs to discourage off-shoring is considered bad form these days.

      --
      Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    8. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      I don't foresee Apple doing all their manufacturing in the USA, but perhaps similar to what Dell was doing: The "build your own" market. This applies only to computers, not their other devices, which will always be overseas. One of the weaknesses of Apple in the past has been being able to customize your computer system. While it is infinitely better now, you still need to be able to take the main components (made in China) and do the final assembly near your point of shipment. Having a facility in NC *could* be beneficial geographically, as it reduces shipping times and fees. And again, being 30 minutes from both UPS and FedEx hubs is a HUGE advantage, as it means you can always negotiate the best deals, as they have to compete for the business. And your stuff you loaded at 6pm is in the air by 10pm and in the regional center before the AM crew has their morning coffee.

      I don't want to sound like a Chamber of Commerce ad, but suffice it to say there are logical reasons why Apple *might* consider this area for building system. Having the datacenter nearby certainly doesn't hurt the chances either.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    9. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by antifoidulus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most of their XServes and mac pros are actually assembled in the US. Not sure if it's due to the weight(those beasts can be quite heavy and thus really expensive to ship), export restrictions or what.

    10. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple doesn't do any of it's own manufacturing now. It's all outsourced (that was one of Tim Cook's big deals - wikipedia told me so...). Also, I think Apple is far to globally focused. There's not much that if you labelled "Made in the USA" on it would gain value elsewhere in the world (Bud Light in Armenia according to a friend, and couches in China according to Ted Koppel), and I wouldn't be surprised if it hurt prices elsewhere, and operating 2 manufacturing bases (one at a significant premium over the other) just wouldn't be cost-effective for them, not in the volume they sell.

      Sad...wish they would...

    11. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      didn't have to pay for the social costs of that, the taxpayer is. But the taxpayer is also paying the price in greater carbon emissions, lower quality of life (at least for the unemployed), and loss of tax revenue, etc.

      Stop referring to all people as taxpayers. It's creepy.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    12. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What I find ironic is that anyone who proposes import tariffs is sneered at as being a jingoistic isolationist, while if one tries to do business in China, it has to be with a Chinese business owning 51% of the venture. In Germany, a foreign company cannot own land; only citizens of the FRG can.

    13. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      With a lot of higher end products that have a good margin, a company is way more likely to build in the US or at least North America. The problem with building in the US isn't quality of employees or products, it is the overall cost. This is why cheap stuff with razor thin margins go overseas first, the stuff that you don't just sell 10,000 of them, but > 1 million. This is one of the reasons I am for lowering corporate taxes, to encourage more manufacturing, for at least mid and high end products.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    14. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by swb · · Score: 1

      The only problem with such an analysis is that if you rely on sub-assemblies coming from China, how is the East Coast of the US supposed to be an advantage?

      At a minimum, it's a trip through the Panama Canal or trans-shipment via rail from the West Coast. I suppose going around the Cape in Africa would be an option, too, but that seems even further.

    15. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      Time on the water is cheap compared to time over land, calculating cost per mile. We deal in a lot of stuff in ocean containers, and it is the overland portion of the trip that is expensive. Once it is on a truck, you need one truck and one driver for one container, instead of one vessel and 20 crew for hundreds of containers. And not all the parts come from China. Flying specialized parts from China to NC isn't much different than to NC either, when you are talking about that kind of volume.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    16. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Time on the water is cheap compared to time over land, calculating cost per mile. We deal in a lot of stuff in ocean containers, and it is the overland portion of the trip that is expensive. Once it is on a truck, you need one truck and one driver for one container, instead of one vessel and 20 crew for hundreds of containers. And not all the parts come from China. Flying specialized parts from China to NC isn't much different than to NC either, when you are talking about that kind of volume.

      Time on land can be cheap as well. If you're shipping mass quantities of product from China to NC, the best route would be to go by water. Once at port, the containers are loaded onto trains because the source and destination are the same. Trucks are used from that point because the destinations are different and the quantities are lower. In which case, having 2/3rds of your population close by means less charges.

      Trains are an excellent and economical way to move product, especially if the product you're moving start at the same source and are all heading to the same destination in huge quantities. Not so economical if product has to be picked up or dropped off at multiple locations. So a manufacturing facility near the east coast isn't as bad even if all your source parts come from China.

      And Apple is the big bully in the market - their orders are so large Apple can severely distort markets for components. Especially as everyone covets an Apple order so they can tie up production lines for months rather than days as they fulfill the small orders. I'm sure Apple might end up having to own a railroad just to get timely shipments.

    17. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by macshome · · Score: 1

      Well, the Dell plant is still running for now. They've still not announced when it will actually close.

      That sort of job isn't as much a tech job as it's a putting computers in boxes job. Dell came here because of the large number of experienced factory workers in the area that were left out of work when the textile industry left.

    18. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by macshome · · Score: 1

      The rather new Dell plant near Winston-Salem was just shut down (moved to Mexico), and there has been rumors of Apple buying it for manufacturing as well.

      As great as this would be, I'll believe it when I see it. I just can't imagine that an organization as big as Apple would be so forward thinking as recognizing that the cost of doing business overseas is often not realized immediately.

      Apple did pull back on an Indian call center several years ago when they realized it might not make the best business sense. http://news.cnet.com/Apple-hangs-up-on-India-call-center/2100-1047_3-6079967.html

      Apple also does maintain a US manufacturing plant, but it's mainly for customers that require US built computers.

    19. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      "GM didn't have to pay for the social costs of that, the taxpayer is. But the taxpayer is also paying the price in greater carbon emissions, lower quality of life (at least for the unemployed), and loss of tax revenue, etc. "
      Why should a company have to pay any social cost? They pay taxes just like everybody else. GM closed the plants because people stopped buying their cars. It is as simple as that. Not only that but just look at the anti GM hate over the Volt. Frankly I am deeply confused what people are complaining about. The Volt was from the start a plug in serial hybrid. Now we find out that it can also be a parallel hybrid when that is the most efficient mode and people get BENT!
      My goodness that is some great tech people but because it is GM it is somehow evil.
      I am all for making stuff in the US but even your statement about companies not paying the social cost is enough to make people run to Mexico in a heartbeat.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    20. Re:What will go in it?-RDF. by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      According to the people working there, it is closing before January, at least regarding actual manufacturing. They have been running a skeleton crew for quite a while, and even worked many of the people 7 days a week for a while. They originally said it would be closed a year ago, but ended up paying the small crew large bonuses to stay around, which helps but not as much as staying. Living near the plant, the wife and I know several people who work (or did) there.

      And yes, Dell wasn't exactly tech jobs, but it was jobs. And considering that unemployment is well over 10% here, we would have been very happy to keep the jobs. It created more than "Dell" jobs, it created UPS jobs, restaurant jobs, etc. Having Dell here would have opened up some more opportunity as well. They never were able to get employment up to the levels they promised, and had to give back the tax incentives, although all the money spent on roads to the plant and other infrastructure is simply spent and can't be recovered, which is why I am hoping someone moves in and at leasts puts that investment to work.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  11. 500k square feet is not that big by mbone · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Large, but not that large. Most US telecoms hubs have several centers at the 500K SF level. Google has more than a dozen data centers with ~ 100,000 square feet each.

    With buildout costs ranging from ~ $ 1000 / SF to a rumored 3 times that for Google, this is probably a billion dollar investment for Apple.

    1. Re:500k square feet is not that big by pckl300 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...this is probably a billion dollar investment for Apple.

      Is that why the 11-inch Macbook Air costs $1000?

      --
      In the beginning, there was null.
    2. Re:500k square feet is not that big by bsDaemon · · Score: 2, Informative

      It costs $1000 because they had to custom-design a lot of internal parts and do stuff to make everything fit. For instance, the flash memory is directly on the board rather than in a separate enclosure attached by a SATA cable. Also, the display on the 11" apparently has more pixels than the display on my 13" MBP. Other than the fact that it's tragically small and that I don't think I could realistically be able to work on anything smaller than my 13", it seems like a pretty nice machine, at least when compared to all the cheap crap netbooks I've interacted with (My 10" EeePC was so terrible for me that I gave it away).

    3. Re:500k square feet is not that big by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Which won't put a significant dent in their $51 billion dollar cash reserves.

    4. Re:500k square feet is not that big by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      500k sqft is a decent size datacenter for a single building, though there are a number of larger datacenter buildings, and many larger datacenter complexes (like Stone Mountain at 6 million sqft) or (DataPort at 3.5 million sqft).

    5. Re:500k square feet is not that big by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "For instance, the flash memory is directly on the board rather than in a separate enclosure attached by a SATA cable."

      It cost less to put the FLASH on the motherboard, since in the latter case you incur the cost of cables, separate enclosure, and a daughterboard.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    6. Re:500k square feet is not that big by turbidostato · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "It costs $1000 because they had to custom-design a lot of internal parts and do stuff to make everything fit."

      Nope. It costs $1000 because they know that not only their customers will pay for it but that their customers even *want* to pay for it (their marketing people has been working for long years in order for that to happen).

      Hint: you never base your price tag on your building costs but on what your customer is willing to pay.

    7. Re:500k square feet is not that big by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      Well, not for all cases. You have to base your price point on what people are willing to pay where you can still make money. You have to pay the engineers designing custom wirewraps, buy the materials, etc. After that, you still need to make a profit, but not try and gouge too much, otherwise even Steve isn't going to be able to justify it.

    8. Re:500k square feet is not that big by bsDaemon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, say you're a commodity PC vendor. You buy motherboards from Asus, hard drives from Seagate, etc. Buying a flash SATA in an enclosure, especially if you're buying in bulk for your production, is totally doable and not going to be too expensive. Designing your own motherboard so that the flash is integrated into it (of course, making it entirely non-upgradable in a much more serious way than complaints about batteries) is going to cost money, etc. My point was that these aren't just off-the-shelf parts that you're paying to have pre-assembled, they did actually do some work to make this thing.

    9. Re:500k square feet is not that big by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "Well, say you're a commodity PC vendor. "

      Clearly the name of my company in your scenario is Orange Computer. ;-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    10. Re:500k square feet is not that big by tomstorey · · Score: 1

      Except that its not actually on the logic board itself, its on a small daughter card that plugs into the logic board. Semantics. :-)

      See the video on the Apple website and pause at about 3:07.

    11. Re:500k square feet is not that big by Lershac · · Score: 1

      HAHA Stone Mountain. Have you checked that out thoroughly? What a joke. Maybe not though, but they sure have developed a shady reputation, and construction is at a standstill.

      --
      Chuck
    12. Re:500k square feet is not that big by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That's right. That's why I'm so tired of the Apple bashing. You don't have to like them, you can even hate them, but it makes you (not *you*) look ignorant to deny that Apple knows what the hell they're doing. Someday Apple will buy Dell, just for kicks. It would be like shopping for a discounted DVD at Walmart. They're a damned savvy company. (By the by, I haven't used an Apple computer since a Gossamer PPC).

    13. Re:500k square feet is not that big by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Buying a flash SATA in an enclosure is always going to be more expensive than buying the bare flash chips and putting them directly on your board. By it's physical definition, the flash SATA drive has those chips in it. There's no physical possibility of the cost being higher for the bare chips. Until the SATA enclosure, connectors, etc. can be made to cost a negative amount.

    14. Re:500k square feet is not that big by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Well, not for all cases. You have to base your price point on what people are willing to pay where you can still make money."

      Not exactly. You just base your price tag on what people are willing to pay.

      If that happens to be below your production costs you either don't go into market (so there won't be a price point) or you revisit your engineering till the production costs go below people's price tag*1, so no, you don't base your price point on your production costs but you set your production costs as a function of the people's will.

      *1 Or, as the Apple case clearly shows, you go to marketing instead of engineering to "engineer" people so they become happy to accept a higher price tag (note that this isn't even always necesary: the marketing lore will remind you about the Haagen Daas case, where their market share skyrocketeed "just" because they put a higher price point to their products so they "seemed" to be better quality).

    15. Re:500k square feet is not that big by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sticking the flash directly on the mainboard makes the whole system cheaper to produce (but slightly more expensive to design/develop). The displays are standard components, and I hope that they finally start a trend that apple ceases to imply low resolution screens. Where's the 1980x1200 15" Macbook (pro)? Displays with the same resolution as the 11" MBA are available in 10" Netbooks for $400.

    16. Re:500k square feet is not that big by macshome · · Score: 1

      Why yes, $1,000,000,000 is what it will cost over 9 years cost actually. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9133961/Apple_picks_N.C._for_1B_data_center

      NC crafted a law specifically saying that the tax incentives vanish if a company coming in failed to invest $1 billion within 9 years. http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2009/Bills/Senate/HTML/S575v4.html

    17. Re:500k square feet is not that big by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THe flash in the new MBAs is on a daughterboard and connects into a SATA port.

      You save on separate enclosure only.

    18. Re:500k square feet is not that big by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buying a flash SATA in an enclosure is always going to be more expensive than buying the bare flash chips and putting them directly on your board. By it's physical definition, the flash SATA drive has those chips in it. There's no physical possibility of the cost being higher for the bare chips. Until the SATA enclosure, connectors, etc. can be made to cost a negative amount.

      First, a lot of the commentary here got it wrong. Apple is using a discrete Toshiba SATA flash disk, not chips soldered to the motherboard. It's just not in a standard form factor. It's a bare board (no enclosure) with a low-profile board-to-board connector rather than a standard SATA connector.

      Second, you do not understand economies of scale. The cost to build a component or subassembly can vary a great deal depending on how much of it the supplier gets to build. Is there less material in that custom SATA flash disk than in a normal 1.8" or 2.5" form factor SSD? Sure. Does that mean it costs Apple less? Heck, no.

      It's all about how factories actually work. They aren't idealized "push button X for product X, push button Y for product Y" machines. There are costs to set up machines and train personnel to make any given product, so on and so forth. Costs per product are minimized when the factory can make enough to utilize its resources (machines, worker hours, floorspace) as close to 100% as possible. Switching from making one thing to making another thing is always much less efficient.

      But that's what must be done for low volume products. And factories charge more for them, more so if the customer cannot live with longer lead times. (Long lead times on custom products come about because typically the factory will have some flexible floorspace and personnel for low volume, cycled between all the low volume products the factory makes. As a customer of the factory, you have to wait your turn to get your product made. The only way around that as a low volume customer is to pony up a lot of money to pay for underutilized dedicated resources, i.e. enough to offset the opportunity cost of keeping some production capacity idle.)

  12. The article seems to say.. by sea4ever · · Score: 0, Troll
    I read a part of the article, and it seems to say that the datacenter might be used to store music, games and other media like that for the iDeviceNameHere. It also says something about streaming your iTunes collection?
    Do iPads/Phones/Fish have the bandwidth to stream high-quality music anyway? I remember something about the iPad not getting a great wireless signal.
    Also from the article:

    "We believe such a service would only enhance the loyalty toward Apple.."

    More like the dependence on Apple. This will give them control over your entire media collection. In an instant they could wipe it from existence or do whatever they want with it.
    I don't have any Apple devices, but if I did, I know that I would not upload my high-quality, offline available music to a server where it will most probably be re-encoded at a lower bitrate so they can stream it back to me.
    Maybe it'll be optional, but from what I've seen of Apple they will force their users to make use of it.

    1. Re:The article seems to say.. by AnonymousClown · · Score: 0
      "Dependence" is the correct word.

      It looks to me that not only do you pay the Apple premium for the hardware, but they'll be getting you on the back end of you want more storage. It's almost as if he's getting ideas from the financial services industry: charge you a load up front (Mac Purchase) and then management fees and other charges on the back end (iDatacenter or whatever).

      Brilliant! Steve Jobs just keeps living up to his reputation as being a marketing God.

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    2. Re:The article seems to say.. by node+3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do iPads/Phones/Fish have the bandwidth to stream high-quality music anyway?

      802.11n isn't high bandwidth?

      I remember something about the iPad not getting a great wireless signal.

      iPads get great wireless reception and they get poor wireless reception, just like pretty much anything wireless. Somebody who got poor wireless reception posted about it and you mistook that for a universally applicable anecdote.

      This will give them control over your entire media collection.

      No it won't. But that does fit the present Slashdot narrative regarding Apple.

      In an instant they could wipe it from existence or do whatever they want with it.

      Including the backup copy in my physical possession? And there's a huge difference between "could" and "would". If Apple ever did this deliberately, that would instantly decimate their user base as users leave that service in droves. Even if they did it accidentally, it would have a huge negative impact. I think it's fair to say Apple won't do something like that deliberately, and with a billion dollar datacenter and their technological skills, they should be able to keep from doing this accidentally as well.

      You could promote the exact same fear about hosting photos on sites like Flickr and Picasa, or files on dropbox, etc. But you won't because it's a silly concern that's easily protected against. But because this is Apple, well shit, "worst case scenario" is synonymous with "most likely scenario" as far as many of the posters here are concerned!

      I don't have any Apple devices, but if I did, I know that I would not upload my high-quality, offline available music to a server where it will most probably be re-encoded at a lower bitrate so they can stream it back to me.

      802.11n is fast enough to stream HD video. Even a completely non-compressed surround sound 24-bit 192kHz would have no problem being streamed over 802.11g. Since you likely don't have your music in that format, let's assume by "high quality" you mean FLAC. Apple's lossless codec (ALAC) is similar. So, pretending for a moment you are talking about ALAC-encoded music, that's only about 700kb/s. You can even stream that over 3G. And if it's the more likely scenario of being 256k AAC or 128-256k MP3?

      Maybe it'll be optional, but from what I've seen of Apple they will force their users to make use of it.

      How the fuck do you think they will accomplish that? Do you think they will remove local storage of music from iPhones/iPods/iPads? Do you think they will stop allowing local storage in iTunes? If something like this comes to pass, it will be in addition to how the devices already work, and people who aren't all "Steve Jobs is an evil mastermind hell-bent on fascist world domination" will fucking love it.

    3. Re:The article seems to say.. by node+3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, offering optional services that people will find compelling enough to voluntarily pay for. What an evil manipulative bastard!

    4. Re:The article seems to say.. by Duradin · · Score: 1

      "In an instant they could wipe it from existence or do whatever they want with it."

      So you're saying it's like Android then?

    5. Re:The article seems to say.. by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      If Apple ever wants to replace the cable and satellite companies for TV shows and movies, they're going to need a shitload of datacenters and bandwidth.

      If you still believe the AppleTV is a "hobby" that is not going anywhere, then why would they have made a second version tailored for streaming?

    6. Re:The article seems to say.. by coryking · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I love how this got modded up. Paranoid much?

    7. Re:The article seems to say.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If something like this comes to pass, it will be in addition to how the devices already work, and people who aren't all "Steve Jobs is an evil mastermind hell-bent on fascist world domination" will fucking love it

      ...and they will pay out the ass, on a monthly basis, to get it. 4 times per family.

      (said as someone who will bitch and moan, and then probably start paying out the ass, monthly, for it...)

    8. Re:The article seems to say.. by intheshelter · · Score: 1

      Fortunately we have saints such as yourself, who do everything for free and only exist to serve humanity. Hopefully it's enough to balance out the evil of Apple who like to get paid for their hard work (selfish bastards!!).

  13. iDataCenter by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

    Sounds like the name of a line of Apple branded external hard drives. "You really should buy an iDataCenter drive to backup your files on your new MacBook - only an extra $300 for a 1 TB iDataCenter drive!"

    --
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
  14. Yeah, a *whiter* shade of pale. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I mean a whiter shade of gray.

  15. Wait, what? by AnonymousClown · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Steve Jobs says the MacBook Air is the future of the MacBook and the future of the notebook as well. But if that’s to be the case, the machine–and Apple’s ecosystem–needs to evolve a bit more to appeal to that strata of user tethered to the high-capacity hard drives that the Air has summarily dispatched.

    So, what's this? You won't be able to store much locally with Apple's new product line? And you'll have to pay more for online storage?

    I don't like that at all. No siree!

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

  16. Hey, by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 1

    How come they didn't build it in California? Hm.

    --

    I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

    1. Re:Hey, by PPalmgren · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Because my state legislature bent over and asked for apples two-inch dick. The tax incentives they gave for the damn thing are rediculous.

    2. Re:Hey, by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 1

      Well you'll benefit by all the jobs it creates, right?

      --

      I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

    3. Re:Hey, by PPalmgren · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Data centers don't really create jobs. Estimates are at like 100 tops.

      Yeah it gave the building contractors something to do, but it would have been better spent towards our shoddy roads.

    4. Re:Hey, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having Apple pay $46 million less tax on a $1 billion initial investment must suck really bad.

    5. Re:Hey, by seanvaandering · · Score: 1

      Didn't you see the movie? Half the entire west coast sinks into the sea in 2012....

    6. Re:Hey, by jcr · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because 1) Apple's already got a massive data center here, and 2) it's a good idea to put redundant data centers on opposite sides of the country.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    7. Re:Hey, by Noughmad · · Score: 1

      Well you'll benefit by all the jobs it creates, right?

      In Soviet Russia, Jobs creates datacenters!!!

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    8. Re:Hey, by quacking+duck · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It was Apple's after-tax money to spend as they wished, not the local, state, or federal governments'. Without a major building there, Apple couldn't care less about the roads in that area. Now that they have a presence, governments get money from taxing datacentre workers salaries, the property, and operations (power consumption, bandwidth, capital costs, etc), as well as the income from these building contractors.

      If major roads are that shoddy, the problem is with the government(s), and/or the people who vote for them. Either taxes are too low, or the people/government actually don't care enough about the condition of the roads.

    9. Re:Hey, by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      10% of something is better than 100% of nothing. A state or city, using tax breaks as an incentive for industry to locate there is almost never a bad idea.

      On the other hand, having a tax structure that encourages companies to locate their operations elsewhere is pretty much always a bad idea. Some places like NYC can get away with it because it's pretty much the center of the universe, but most places can't.

    10. Re:Hey, by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      Was there actually any money given to Apple for this project? From what I've seen in the past, "tax incentives" only means giving the company lower income or property tax rates. Since the land involved is usually unused farmland that doesn't produce very much if any income or property tax revenue, any tax revenue generated by developing the land will be a positive.

    11. Re:Hey, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rediculous

      ridiculous?

    12. Re:Hey, by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Distributed data centers are a very good thing for the following reasons:

      1. California doesn't have as much available power generation as the site in North Carolina
      2. Disaster Recovery operations can proceed at the new site for California data centers, and vice versa
      3. If they are to launch some type of streaming service, having a datacenter less than 1000 miles from 60% of the US population is probably a good idea

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    13. Re:Hey, by mlts · · Score: 1

      There are also a number of other reasons:

      1: The NIMBY syndrome in CA. CA is so crowded that most city residents do not want a half a million square foot data center anywhere they live or work. Other areas of the US are happy to have the revenue from construction and maintenance coming in.

      2: Availability of water and electricity. CA is hurting for water, and even though Enron isn't in the picture anymore, CA still is on the edge when it comes to electrical infrastructure.

      3: Geography. Just like #3 mentioned by the parent poster, if Apple needs more bandwidth to other areas of the US, they can lay more physical fiber and have another peer.

      4: Security. The local police will be responding to a break-in attempt or a trespasser far more quickly than the resource starved departments in California.

      5: Geographic stability. No earthquakes in that zone, the DC is not in a flood plain, it isn't in twister country, and there are no dormant volcanoes ready to pop their tops.

      6: (going a bit out on a limb here) Nuclear war survivability. In a nuclear exchange, CA from Tijuana to Oregon would be glassed first thing. This DC is an area that would not be a primary target. Perhaps it would be a secondary target, but not something that would be taken out for strategic military reasons in the first round.

      7: Room to expand. Need another million square feet of space? Pick a direction.

    14. Re:Hey, by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      You're not thinking like a liberal. Whenever anything involving tax reductions is mentioned, it becomes a "hey, that was my money to play with!" thing. They go so far sometimes as to try to equate tax reductions as 'increased spending' to continue in their shenanigans.

    15. Re:Hey, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      6: (going a bit out on a limb here) Nuclear war survivability. In a nuclear exchange, CA from Tijuana to Oregon would be glassed first thing. This DC is an area that would not be a primary target. Perhaps it would be a secondary target, but not something that would be taken out for strategic military reasons in the first round.

      Really? The most crippling blow an enemy could strike against the U.S. would be to leave CA intact and in charge of the country. Look at the state at this very moment.

    16. Re:Hey, by mlts · · Score: 1

      CA has its ups and downs. In 1990, the state was in a nasty recession, which the Bay Area brought it out of. I'm sure the next item that will propel the economy will be coming from there. Most likely the next boom will be alternative energy and smart grids, or it might be something completely different.

      However, CA is saturated with data centers, and Apple already has a lot of eggs in that basket.

  17. Coming to a thumbdrive near you! by bucketoftruth · · Score: 1

    Some day all the processing power and storage in that place will fit on something you can hold in your hand. Let's hear from the /. futurist nerds why this will/will not be the case.

    1. Re:Coming to a thumbdrive near you! by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Some day all the processing power and storage in that place will fit on something you can hold in your hand.

      See? That wasn't so hard.

  18. Bart comments... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    iCaramba!

  19. iSkynet by Oasiz · · Score: 0

    Sorry, it had to be said.

  20. Maybe Return of the Jedi by schmaustech · · Score: 4, Funny

    I remember the Death Star being half built and I quote the Emperor "Now witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational battle station!"

    1. Re:Maybe Return of the Jedi by turbidostato · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Now witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational battle station!"

      Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

    2. Re:Maybe Return of the Jedi by MintOreo · · Score: 1

      Palpatine's got both.

  21. Is it just me... by Anachragnome · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is it just me, or does the idea of storing data on the equipment(property) of other people bother anyone else?

    One question about all of this keeps coming to mind. At what point does that data become theirs, and not mine?

    Until someone answers that question to MY satisfaction, I'll stick with my clunky, old HDs. At present, cloud-computing appears to me to be nothing more then a move to further monetize our own data by inserting a middleman between us and said data.

    1. Re:Is it just me... by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      You just described hosting, which is pretty much what the web is based on. People have been doing this for a long time, it just sounds like Apple (and everyone else who is doing it, eg Google) are just making a more convenient way to access the sort of ability that nerds have had for a long time.

      As with any data, if you let it out of your control (ie, entrust it to someone else) then you are taking a risk. If you want to keep it more secure, store it locally.

    2. Re:Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not just you. I think the concept of storing your stuff in the cloud is for shit. I got burned early in this game when I stored a bunch of stuff, the company went out of business, and it all disappeared. (They posted a notice on their site in advance but I hardly ever went back after it was stored. They should have emailed everyone.) It wasn't important stuff, but I learned a valuable lesson.

      However, backing up or mirroring to the cloud works for me. That's why I dig Apple's iDisk with syncing on. The data gets stored locally but mirrored to iDisk. That way it's a backup of sorts. If my main Mac was ever lost/stolen/destroyed, I could just get another, login to my iDisk, and pick up where I left off.

    3. Re:Is it just me... by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

      "...The data gets stored locally but mirrored to iDisk..."

      Again, my first question.

      At what point does this data become THEIRS? Is the "copy' on the cloud owned by someone other then YOU? I shouldn't have to point out the ramifications of your data belonging to anyone but you.

      Does Apple claim any legal ownership, even in the form of license, of/to your data simply because it is stored on their hardware?

      Did your lawyers examine the fine print? I am quite sure theirs did.

      See my point? Why would the industry suddenly decide they would provide the infrastructure for data storage, at great cost to themselves? There HAS to be something in it for them to invest so deeply. The only thing I see them getting...is data. You have to control something to monetize it effectively.

    4. Re:Is it just me... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Is it just me, or does the idea of storing data on the equipment(property) of other people bother anyone else?

      One question about all of this keeps coming to mind. At what point does that data become theirs, and not mine?

      Until someone answers that question to MY satisfaction, I'll stick with my clunky, old HDs. At present, cloud-computing appears to me to be nothing more then a move to further monetize our own data by inserting a middleman between us and said data.

      Reading the article it appears to be pure speculation that Apple is using the data center for cloud storage. I haven't heard of any Apple initiatives in the cloud at all . In fact, it's not a new datacenter but an expansion of an existing center. It might be that the datacenter is not even to store your data but their own. After all, Apple's iTunes itself stores and serves millions of songs, tens of thousands of movies, and thousands of TV shows, etc.. In the next 90 days, Apple will launch their Mac App Store. I would guess this is the reason for the expansion.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    5. Re:Is it just me... by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Does Apple claim any legal ownership, even in the form of license, of/to your data simply because it is stored on their hardware?

      No. What possible reason do you have to think they would?

    6. Re:Is it just me... by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Because you pay them to use their services. MobileMe isn't free, you need to pay for it every year.

      In Apple's case, they have their iTunes store, which has massive amounts of data from all the music, TV Shows, movies, applications and podcasts.

    7. Re:Is it just me... by PenguSven · · Score: 1

      See my point? Why would the industry suddenly decide they would provide the infrastructure for data storage, at great cost to themselves?

      Well we already know what the likes of Google get out of it - more information about you, so they can target ads at you better. You ask what Apple gets out of it? $USD99/year This is exactly why I'm happy to pay apple for 20GB of space that I can use for email, storage, when the whole world seems to be in love with Google. What surprises me most of all is how many nerds are happy that Google reads all their email just to show them Ads.

      --
      What is...?
    8. Re:Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they don't. People may complain about Apple being a dictator of sorts, but they have proven themselves to be benevolent time again. Remember the fear about being overcharged to replace the non-removable batteries in iPods? Apple's price is very reasonable. The bitching about the original iphone being discounted so much so fast? (I bought one.) Refund. And on and on. Concern is fine, but Apple has yet to disappoint. Anyway, no, they have no rights to your stuff stored on iDisk.

      Anyway, about MobileMe, you can see all the terms at http://www.apple.com/legal/mobileme/en/terms.html.

    9. Re:Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (apologies in advance: /. won't let me paste in chrome)

      I don't feel like searching through apple's millions of legal documents, so I'm going to use Dropbox as a temporary example.

      Dropbox specifically states in their current terms that they claim no ownership in your files, including the versions on their servers. They *do* retain the right to "investigate" your files in cases where law enforcement is involved and to (paraphrasing) ensure you aren't breaking their TOS (mostly to do with hosting copyrighted, illegal, or obscene materials or trying to hack the site).

      Dropbox doesn't mine your data, they make money (supposedly, I don't actually know financially how they're doing, but I like them so I hope well) by charging for larger accounts.'

      So, putting stuff in the cloud doesn't necessarily mean you are losing ownership or even control of it. Dropbox will let you put encrypted stuff up for all they care. It does mean that anything unencrypted could be viewed by them or the police.

      Of course, all this could change with a simple, unannounced TOS change.

      Now, back to Apple. They could be in it just to charge for data storage. They already do charge a yearly fee for iDisk, plus extra charges if you need more space. Email also comes in that bundle, and unlike Google, it isn't (that we know of) mined for advertising, at least not advertising they place there on the page. Of course, even though they could slip that into a TOS paragraph, I think the possibility of someone finding that and the damage it would cause to their reputation is enough that, if they're not doing it up front, they're not doing it behind our backs.

      How would this apply to iTunes? Well, considering how much they love (and push) rentals, how much money Netflix monthly streaming makes, and the legal minefield they'd be stepping into if they hosted users iTunes accounts (remember back when the iPod came with a "Don't Steal Music" sticker and we all thought it was quaint?) and any possible pirated music, I see streaming coming first.

      So what about data storage? Well, Apple would, I think, act more like Dropbox than Google. They already try and get you in to long-term contracts (MobileMe to get FindMyiPhone and iDisk). That's where their monetization comes from, not from searching and selling ads. They don't even really do search. Sure, they've got searchlight, but I think that web vs hard drive is a big enough difference that they know, especially going up against someone with the search prowess of Google, that it wouldn't be worth it for them. Doing searches of everyone's data just opens them up to being required to do something with anything illegal they turn up...

      To sum up my long and rambling post: I see Apple using this data center for streaming/rental downloads. Next, I see them using it to expand the MobileMe/iDisk program, but pretty much as-is, maybe drop the price a bit and see how much elasticity there is. But I don't see them trying to claim ownership, or even really wanting to look through your data. It's a risk I don't think they want to take, financially or legally.

    10. Re:Is it just me... by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      They don't get data. They get mind share. It a really cheap way to keep you engaged with their brand. You get locked into a workflow using their convenient tools which keeps you tied to the platform that supports those tools.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    11. Re:Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, since my knowledge regarding data is almost zilch. I am more worried that we will be overdependent on data centers and one data have a have a sun-flair or something and wipe a lot of valuable information forever. Or is that an impossibility?

    12. Re:Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'sperg post of the day

    13. Re:Is it just me... by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

      "They already try and get you in to long-term contracts (MobileMe to get FindMyiPhone and iDisk). That's where their monetization comes from, not from searching and selling ads. "

      Bingo. Just as I said--a middleman between me and my data. Pay up or you lose access to whatever is stored. Sure, I could have a hard-copy(?) back-up on a drive just in case they do something like this, but what in the hell is the point of using them in the first place?

      Monthly fees for a backup? Why not just purchase one-time-fee-and-you-own-the-fucking-thing hard drives? Long-term contracts? Didn't you people learn anything from the mobile providers?

    14. Re:Is it just me... by ceeam · · Score: 1

      Done properly - with proper encryption etc, it's not a concern at all.

      Well, there is a concern, namely legalization of it, but it's the same with the data on your HD. They - the law enforcement - (theoretically) can make you turn it on and check every file just about any time soon. TrueCrypt? You are forced to enter the password or face problems.

      > Disclaimer: I'm not a conspiracy theorist nut.

      Uhm... appropriate.

    15. Re:Is it just me... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      You had me at "convenient tools", which is far less ominous sounding than "mind share".

    16. Re:Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Possession is 9/10 of the law.

      Say company "A" and company "B" are bitter competitors. Company "A" stores data on a provider that happens to have ties to company "B". There is nothing stopping company "B" from making a copy of the data (for "offsite" purposes) and start going through it for any usable trade secrets of customer info on company "A"'s customers they can lure or coerce to switch over.

      Contracts? Doesn't matter. It isn't that difficult to explain the access as a part of normal backups (which can then be restored to company "B"'s forensic department machines at their leisure.)

      So, even though someone might "own" the bits, they can be pretty much used any way the hosting provider pleases, and it will be a uphill battle in very hostile courts to try to prove otherwise.

      Solution: For most people, it doesn't matter -- not even a BOFH doing his more /var/spool/mail/* really cares that much what people have in their directories. However, if the info is sensitive, encrypt it.

    17. Re:Is it just me... by mlts · · Score: 1

      This is the reason I also have a MM account. No wink, wink, nudge, nudge and "accidental" leaks of personal information to advertisers. There is no third party in the mix with conflicting interests, just the E-mail provider and the end user.

      TANSTAAFL.

    18. Re:Is it just me... by canesfan · · Score: 1

      No it is not just you. I may show my age a bit with this reply but I remember when a company in America had to earn a customers business and follow up with good service to sell their products or services succesfully here in our great country. I remember a time when any employee who proposed that the organization start asking for your phone number, e-mail (didn't exist), home address, how many kids you had etc. would be laughed out of a job. Posting our family photos or private thoughts for public consumption was such an extreme concept that no one bothered to discuss it. Today if you dare question a cashier as to why they need your e-mail, home address, date of birth and phone number to buy a gallon of milk you are looked at as suspect. Anyway... I will not store my data or my employers data (Unix admin) in "The Cloud". Remember if the service is free then you are not the customer but rather the product.

    19. Re:Is it just me... by PenguSven · · Score: 1

      Bingo. Just as I said--a middleman between me and my data. Pay up or you lose access to whatever is stored. Sure, I could have a hard-copy(?) back-up on a drive just in case they do something like this, but what in the hell is the point of using them in the first place?

      Monthly fees for a backup? Why not just purchase one-time-fee-and-you-own-the-fucking-thing hard drives? Long-term contracts? Didn't you people learn anything from the mobile providers?

      You seem to be talking purely about storage (iDisk) here so I'll ignore the other parts of MobileMe

      iDisk provides for a couple of scenarios for online file storage

      • off-site backup (yes, a local backup only costs you the initial purchase price of hardware+power, but it's also in the same physical building as your primary storage location - this makes it vulnerable to fire, flood, earthquake, lightning strike/surge, theft, etc.
      • access to a document at "any" computer - OS X includes an automatic mirroring system to keep a cached copy of the iDisk locally, Windows/Linux users can access it via WebDAV and there is also a web UI.
      • sharing a document with others, either secured or free-for-all

      Now it is true that if you don't continue to pay the yearly fee, your iDisk will be deleted when the account expires (from memory they give you a little bit of "oops" time after the account expires), however it's not like they are going to suddenly say "hey if you want to access that data, cough up an extra $500.".
      If you don't want to renew the account, you just need to remember to copy any files stored only on iDisk back to your computer before the account expires. You can think of it like renting a house - if you don't want to live there any more, just remember to get your shit out before you leave.

      Monthly fees? No. A yearly fee that has fairly generous limits - $99/year for 20GB of storage, with 200GB/month transfer allowance.

      Long term contract? No. You pay the yearly fee. If you don't want to use it any more, you don't renew the account.

      --
      What is...?
    20. Re:Is it just me... by dannys42 · · Score: 1

      I'd like to add, for all the "Apple is evil" people out there... Apple's one of the few companies that seems to go through quite a bit to make sure you're aware of *any* changes to their license agreements.

      I'll get messages when I log into the online service saying I have to agree by a certain date to continue using the service. Or I'll get a notice when I install an app/update about the license (or change in license). iTunes does this every time they add a new service (like Genius or Ping).

      Whether you like their added service or not is a separate issue. The fact is they do much more to ensure that I'm aware of the license changes than I've seen from any other company. And most of the time when I look at those licenses they're just assuring me that they're not taking personally identifiable information; the information they do take will only be used for said service; and they'll only take that information if I enable the new service.

      The only other thing they could do to make it really useful is perhaps have a "plain english translation" of the changes.

    21. Re:Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Put it this way. Companies like Google, Apple and Microsoft don't want to just store family photos and music in "the cloud" they want to provide data and processing services to everyone. This means they are going to eventually have to get corporate buy in. Any major corporation is going to be reluctant to move their IP to an offsite storage facility if there is any question about security of that content. If any cloud company decides "hey if you put content on our servers then it becomes OUR data" that will kill "the cloud" right then an there. Cloud service companies are going to have to bend over backwards to prove to corporations that moving data and processing to the cloud will be prudent and ensure safe (if not safer) storage then on the corporations own servers. The first company that provides enterprise level storage and services and violates those conditions will essentially be sued out of existence, it won't matter if its Apple, Google or Microsoft. So cloud services companies are going to tread lightly before making any grand statements about claiming to own your data.

      You can act pessimistic or cry conspiracy all you like, but any corporation is a million times more protective of their IP then you are of any picture of document you have. If they move to the cloud then that is all the convincing I need to embrace it myself.

  22. Anyone have the coordinates? by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

    I'm trying to find it on Google maps but can't. Does anyone have coordinates for where this actually is?

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    1. Re:Anyone have the coordinates? by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      It's not on the Google sats, it's too new.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    2. Re:Anyone have the coordinates? by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

      So in other words, you don't know what the coordinates are. I get that the images that Google has are sometimes dated, but if the building is not there one might at least see some construction prep. Might even be something interesting there.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    3. Re:Anyone have the coordinates? by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      So in other words, you don't know what the coordinates are.

      Well... Let me see... Hmmmm...

      Punching apple Maiden, North Carolina into Google Maps yields some interesting results. I wonder... Could this possibly point to the solution of your question?

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    4. Re:Anyone have the coordinates? by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      Are you sure that's not Apple Tree Service you found?

      Nevermind. iForgot.

    5. Re:Anyone have the coordinates? by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      Nope. "A" is the spot. Compare the sat to the video.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    6. Re:Anyone have the coordinates? by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      Nope. "A" is the spot. Compare the sat to the video.

      Well done Sir. Thanks.

  23. Not in a flood area, I hope by darrylo · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm sure they've thought of this, but I really hope that the river next to it doesn't flood ....

    (Rummages through FEMA's awful web site for flood maps) Well, that's interesting. Apple's probably OK, as the 1% flood line doesn't appear to cover their site. However, there's an interesting line on the map called, "limit of study", that appears to end before the site... Assuming that I have the right location, google maps is here, and here is FEMA's flood map (note: FEMA's link was working earlier, but now appears to be broken -- I hope I got the link right).

    1. Re:Not in a flood area, I hope by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      I would imagine that they would think of this, and every other environmental concern before dropping $1,000,000,000 into it. But hey, stupider things have happened with much larger sums of money, usually at the hands of governmental authorities.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  24. Interesting how bright white the complex is by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 0

    At least some offset for the energy use? http://www.physorg.com/news140875649.html

    --
    Fandroids hate facts.
    1. Re:Interesting how bright white the complex is by goodmanj · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nah, it's just styling. Ten years ago, Apple would have built six little ones in rainbow colors; five years before that it would have been matte black, and five years before *that* they'd have painted it beige.

    2. Re:Interesting how bright white the complex is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flat white is out
      It will be made out of aluminum and glass, and have only one entrance/exit

    3. Re:Interesting how bright white the complex is by shikaisi · · Score: 1

      I'm just amazed that it hasn't got nice rounded corners. How could Steve allow this?

      --
      No left turn unstoned.
  25. Just an ariel shot by od05 · · Score: 1

    Not much different than the first video".

  26. I couldn't finish watching it by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    There appeared to be a bee buzzing around in the plane and the noise was just too grating.

    1. Re:I couldn't finish watching it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the copilot had a vuvuzela. New FAA requirement.

  27. Did you mean... by e065c8515d206cb0e190 · · Score: 2, Funny

    the only customer for Xserves?

    Let's face it... Apple has proved to best cost effective in the recent years, so they'll probably buy cheap dell hardware and assemble them on a Linux grid.

  28. This is what drone cameras are for. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That line in the summary bothers me. Makes me think that the next reply is: "no, that is what drone missiles are for..."

    1. Re:This is what drone cameras are for. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also: not a drone. This was handheld footage from a fixed-wing aircraft.

  29. Why only one data center? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No geo-redundancy here. Better hope they don't happen to get sunk by an extended power-outage or natural disaster or wide-spread software bug that doesn't show up in testing.

  30. Nothing to be proud of by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

    Apple sells hardware. All of this is non-revenue generating investment, it's just a way to consume profits.

    1. Re:Nothing to be proud of by node+3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple sells hardware. All of this is non-revenue generating investment, it's just a way to consume profits.

      No, but it's a way to create future profits by making their hardware more appealing through cloud services the way the App Store has made iPhones more appealing to consumers.

    2. Re:Nothing to be proud of by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Again Nothing to be proud of

      Why do you need a data center to have an app store?

      A truly smart solution would leverage the enormous unused CPU power of the client systems.

    3. Re:Nothing to be proud of by nyctopterus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm pretty sure Apple has noticed a problem that many other people have. If you have several devices (iPhone, iPad, iMac, lets say), and a large collection of data (documents, music, videos, etc.) keeping all this stuff in sync is a royal pain in the arse. It's also damn annoying having to choose what to put on you portable devices. As a hardware manufacturer that want to sell you a stack of devices, Apple has a huge interest in make the management of your data between these devices seamless. Apple's efforts in this direction have been a bit fumbling so far. Manual syncing's not great (Steve Jobs actually mentioned this when he was launching the new Apple TV), and MobileMe is clearly inadequate.

      I suspect Apple's heading to a stream anything you have to any iDevice you have any time you have a network connection. They need to to keep their multi-device hardware business competitive. To do this, they need massive data storage and streaming capabilities.

      All seems pretty obvious to me.

    4. Re:Nothing to be proud of by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Because you need a place to STORE the apps in your app store? Gonna "leverage the enormous unused [disk capacity] of the client systems" too? I'm sure no one around here would scream bloody murder about either of those schemes.

      "OMGAWD Apple is using my CPU without my permisson!!" - Random Slashbot

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    5. Re:Nothing to be proud of by mlts · · Score: 1

      Apple would open themselves to a world of hurt by doing that. Using clients for P2P is verboten almost everywhere on the Internet. To boot, people would be complaining about the CPU usage, and the fact that they are paying Apple for the store, so why do they also have to pay in CPU and bandwidth as well (see the Blizzard flame threads around WoW patch days for examples of this.)

      On the other hand, A data center makes perfect sense, especially if it is used for serving applications. I wonder if Apple's app store will encrypt or "personalize" downloaded stuff. This means that Apple can't just mirror files; they have to have the files processed in some way before the download to the end user begins. This makes the fact that Apple being rumored to be going with high end AIX and Sun machines more understandable, as those have the CPU power to package the .ipk files for each user.

  31. Re:And there. by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

    I know a Lieutenant Commander from Starfleet that would disagree with you.

  32. Wow, no style. by lullabud · · Score: 1

    I guess they don't put the same effort into their data centers as they do into their Apple stores, at least concerning the outside. And why did they build it so wide instead of up?

    1. Re:Wow, no style. by rah1420 · · Score: 1

      Most likely a combination of zoning and engineering.

      Floors above the 1st floor mean greater engineering for load bearing, etc. from my layman's perspective. Cheaper to just pour a slab, especially if you have the real estate for it.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
    2. Re:Wow, no style. by Wovel · · Score: 1

      Because you only build up when land is expensive. Particularly when you are building something that is incredibly expensive to build vertically...

  33. Obvious use: App Store by Kyusaku+Natsume · · Score: 1

    The writer of the original article and many posters look like they aren't aware of the next release of OS X. This will be a perfect justification for the 30% cut on the App Store. Perhaps they will even offer a service similar to SourceForge to sweeten the deal. With this capacity, they can afford to do it.

    --
    Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
  34. yes but... by Kildjean · · Score: 1

    can it play quake?

    --
    Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
  35. One more for the cage by JoltinJoe77 · · Score: 1

    All this speculation about iThis and iThat is premature - this could be nothing more than a new foray into the new market known as cloud computing. Big bets suggest there is money to be made, though I'm not sure anyone has figured out the market enough yet to know how to make it. The very young cloud computing space is already crowded with the likes of Amazon, Intuit, Google, Salesforce, Microsoft, and the list goes on. So it looks like here comes one more in Apple for the giant cage match. Like a lot of new areas of competition it will be interesting to see who buys which operation, which ones fail, and who is left standing at the end.

  36. Am I the only one who thought... by sincewhen · · Score: 1

    Mayday! Mayday! I think I'm flying into a mountain! Tell my wife I lo...

    --
    -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
  37. i want the moron who downmodded this answer me by unity100 · · Score: 1

    have you or have you not read how apple lawyers keep suing people around australia for using the letter "i" in any kind of i.t. brand, and in u.s. the companies that use 'pod'.

    either you havent, or the system again allowed a witless fanboi to get mod points.

    getting downmodded isnt a problem. the zealotry is.

  38. Not enormous ... by Syssiphus · · Score: 1

    It's the iNormous Datacenter. It's magic.

  39. Someone else has access to this data center? by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

    Why do I have this feeling that another company may use part of the storage at this data center in exchange for prominent icon placement by Apple on the Apple TV? I can see Netflix doing this very thing.

  40. Reading is not writing... by crovira · · Score: 2, Informative

    The OP asked "Is there a square meter of the Earth's surface that hasn't been flown over and photographed in the last month?"

    The answer is NO, by several sources, down to a resolution of less than 3 inches.

    Just because you don't have access to it because you can't find better than KH-11 imagery doesn't mean that the imagery doesn't exist.

    I have seen embarrassing photos of infamous people sunning themselves, from 490 miles away. :-)

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  41. HW can be made anywhere, DATA is secured locally. by crovira · · Score: 1

    Hardware can come from anywhere, specially the consumer devices which are extremely price sensitive, but you can't/don't want to/ export consumer data.

    Would you store all those credit card numbers and transaction records on foreign soil?

    Would you store all of those apps, tunes, movies etc. on foreign soil?

    Now imagine you live on foreign soil...

    Look for Apple store roll-outs in other countries to be preceded by data warehouse expansion as Apple gets more and more involved with using the 'net for content distribution.

    Apple will store statistical data for sales world-wide but will keep the financial and transaction data local to each jurisdiction.

    Its a matter of accounting and accountability. You don't want to risk any merging or co-mingling of data.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  42. TURN DOWN YOUR SPEAKERS!!!! - John C. Dvorak by crovira · · Score: 1

    There is a thing called a volume control.

    In fact I have volume controls on my MacBook Pro AND on my speakers.

    Wow, who'd have thought of it... Obviously, not you.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  43. Love the SIG but you're not from Québec by crovira · · Score: 1

    Ton vocabulaire te marque comme un Français où un Wallon. (J'ai étudié les jurons. :-)

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    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
    1. Re:Love the SIG but you're not from Québec by Kildjean · · Score: 1

      Nope I am not from Quebec. I am from puerto rico. The only real French I know is what I wrote on my sig and saying mi crayon est grand...

      The sig us a quote from the merovingian in the matrix, where he explains that cursing in French is like wiping your ass with silk. I love it!

      --
      Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
    2. Re:Love the SIG but you're not from Québec by crovira · · Score: 1

      Puerto Rico. Madre de dios.

      A good Québecois curse would take longer that a SIG to write.

      "Hostie de tabarnacle de calice de maudit chien sale de batard de joual vert de Criss de ... Chu d'bonne humeur, maudit torieux."

      Québecois love chaining one curse into the next. You get the idea. :-)

      --
      MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
    3. Re:Love the SIG but you're not from Québec by Kildjean · · Score: 1

      the sig should have been longer but slashdot only allows so many characters

      --
      Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
  44. anonymous coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    next week jobs will announce the i-rocket

  45. OMG--MILLIONS! by hotsauce · · Score: 1

    "...MILLIONS of dollars!"

    *The Security Council bursts out laughing, and the Defense Minister of India offers to end the crisis by pulling out his personal checkbook and writing a check out for the amount*

    Your post was very informative, but I couldn't help but get a Dr Evil moment from your state's supposed infrastructure expenditure. My city spends as much on a single duck pond or a bike trail. Hopefully you meant to demand/say BILLIONS! Or, given the strength of the dollar, TRILLIONS!

  46. US quality by hotsauce · · Score: 1

    Every patriot thinks their country produces the best quality. But after Mercedes brought one model line here and could not after years of trying match the quality they were getting in Germany, they decided not to do it again. And the quality of American cars, well, speaks for itself.

    So I have the option of starting anew in a country with high salaries and a spotty quality record, or I can go to the factory in China that already makes the iPhone and iPad at very high quality with workers who do not expect to spend hours on Gmail and Slashdot *ahem* everyday. Guess which I'm going to choose? The tax rate has nothing to do with it.