Slashdot Mirror


US Supreme Court Expected Political Ad Transparency

T Murphy writes "The Supreme Court, when ruling that corporate and union political donations were allowed under free speech, assumed the source of the donation would be disclosed immediately under current donation laws. Due to loopholes, this has not been the case, eliminating the hoped-for transparency the Supreme Court ruled to be vital to democracy. Justice Kennedy, who sided with the majority on the ruling, has been called naive for his expectation that there would be greater transparency. In the meantime, campaign spending for House candidates alone is expected to reach $1.5 billion."

26 of 617 comments (clear)

  1. Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Kennedy has always attempted to be a fair mediator between the left and right impulses on the Court. But he really blew it on this one. His attempt at moderation in this case has taken an already out-of-control problem and made it much worse. This ruling will ensure that individual citizens are forevermore completely and totally drowned out in our government by corporate interests and their puppet foundations/non-profits. It was almost that way *already*, but now the big interests won't even have to *try* to hide their bribery. And, thanks to this, nothing short of a Constitutional amendment will ever stop corporate control of the government now (and good luck getting a 2/3's majority in a Congress owned by those corporations). Thanks Anthony!

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Did you read the same Citizens United ruling that I did? Did you read then Solicitor General Kagan's argument that basically said "Yeah, this legislation gives the Feds the power to ban books, but that's irrelevant because we would never do such a thing."? The 1st amendment says plainly enough that Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. The old law prohibited Citizens United from publishing a film about a political candidate within a certain timeframe preceding a Federal election. Such a law is not compatible with the 1st amendment if free speech is to have any meaning.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by mc6809e · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This ruling will ensure that individual citizens are forevermore completely and totally drowned out in our government by corporate interests and their puppet foundations/non-profits.

      The individual citizen is always going to be drowned out in a democracy. The biggest gang wins. That what Democracy is.

      Very few people have won elections without the help of large groups. People must form large groups to get anywhere. As a legal convenience, these groups become corporations by incorporating.

      The AARP is a corporation. The NEA is a corporation. The AFL/CIO is a corporation. The NAACP is a corporation. They're all groups of like-minded people that would be nothing if they couldn't act together (and spend together) as a unit.

    3. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So free speech only applies to selected bodies? Unions can exercise all the political exertion they want but corporations can't?

      Some corporations can. The people who are outraged over Citizens United never found the time to complain when the for-profit New York Times was endorsing political candidates.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    4. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by toastar · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Meh....

      If it weren't for anonymous political speech we wouldn't have the Federalist papers.

    5. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by mc6809e · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Did you read the same Citizens United ruling that I did? Did you read then Solicitor General Kagan's argument that basically said "Yeah, this legislation gives the Feds the power to ban books, but that's irrelevant because we would never do such a thing."? The 1st amendment says plainly enough that Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. The old law prohibited Citizens United from publishing a film about a political candidate within a certain timeframe preceding a Federal election. Such a law is not compatible with the 1st amendment if free speech is to have any meaning.

      I laughed when I learned that Micheal Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11M was used to attack the old law. Under the old law, Fahrenheit could have been banned during the 30 days before the 2004 election as a form of electioneering.

      It wasn't banned, of course, and that made arguing against the old law even easier because it suggested that the state could pick and choose what speech to ban and what speed to allow and that created a fear that the state under the old law would manipulate the political conversation.

    6. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by Saishuuheiki · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is you're assuming the corporations are controlled by a large group.

      I'm sure that in some cases, if not most, these decisions are ultimately made by one or a few with all the power of the many. Just because a corporation is composed of thousands of workers or owned by thousands of investors doesn't mean that these people have any control. Moreover, most of these corporations are not formed for political purposes or around political ideas.

      I'd be surprised if I read a story of any of these million dollar corporations holding a vote amongst shareholders whether and to whom they should donate a political contribution.

    7. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, actually she did. Start on page 64. She is arguing that the law DOES cover books but you don't need to worry about it because the Government has never tried to regulate books and if it did there would be grounds for a legal challenge. You'll forgive me if I don't find that argument very compelling.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by blackraven14250 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Endorsing a candidate is fundamentally different from having the ability to run billions of dollars in ads, especially when the endorsement says "THE NEW YORK TIMES ENDORSES X CANDIDATE" and the ads say "Paid for by random mysterious group #50,982".

    9. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem isn't people banding together, the problem is that they're allowed to pump money into the system to push their agenda.

      I don't think we're going to have anything resembling a fair democracy until we restrict politicians to public funding.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    10. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Informative

      ink that the difference is that the constitution also makes no mention of organizations or corporations has have ANY rights.

      That's completely irrelevant. Read the plain text of the 1st amendment: "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech"

      What part of "shall make no law" is so hard to understand?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    11. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The New York Times is a for-profit corporation that's been endorsing political candidates for decades.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    12. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by mdarksbane · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tell me any reasonable way to parse the difference between the two that is *not* incredibly open to political abuse. Tell me how to keep the regulatory structure immune from every political lobbying group pressuring the justice department. Tell me what justifies giving some giant faceless corporations (the New York Times, Fox News, Time Warner) the right to make political statements and not others.

      There is no clear line to draw and no clean way to draw it. This is why the first amendment exists - rather than risk creating a regulatory structure that is incredibly open to abuse, we open speech up to everyone and every thing and leave it up to the voter to parse out the bad speech.

    13. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The intent was that Congress would not be in the position of regulating speech.

      Why are you so afraid of unfettered speech anyway? Is your opinion of the American electorate so low that you think they need to be shielded from this speech and can't form their own opinions about it?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    14. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by jdpars · · Score: 4, Informative

      That used to be the case! A corporation, or really any group, was limited in the way it could fund a campaign. It could only give an amount equal to the limits of personal giving of each of its members, and they weren't allowed to give on their own outside of it. This SCOTUS ruling destroyed that!

    15. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by dasdrewid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's the point I was going to make.

      The problem is still with the organization of corporations. The management isn't at fault, because they're just the hired guns doing the will of the owners (stockholders). The stockholders aren't at fault because there's so many of them you could never apportion blame, and they can't know the ins-and-outs of every action taken by the corporation. Basically, no one is to blame (officially...when Target donates 150k to a politician the CEO likes, everyone knows exactly who to go after...but how're you gonna fire him? If more than 50% of the stock is owned by institutional investors who only trade based on price, and he continues to make the price better, you can't get rid of him...)

      --
      No trespassing. Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
    16. Re:Kennedy's folly and sad legacy by bendodge · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But the NYT does speak far louder than other entities. It might as well be donating to the candidate when it provides them free services.

      On the playground we called it cheating.

      I cannot imagine how a playground analogy can be applied here. There is no playground parallel to mass media that I can think of./quote

      --
      The government can't save you.
  2. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I call bullshit. The court knew exactly what it was doing and knew that loopholes big enough to drive a dump truck full of money through were in place.

  3. Re:This was obvious. by corbettw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When they made the ruling, I agreed with their judicial logic, but that was a case where very clearly the ruling was not in the good of the general population.

    The Supreme Court needs to concerns itself with protecting the rights of the individual, not the good of the general population. Otherwise we'll end up with a tyranny of the majority.

    --
    God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
  4. Easy fix by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Contributions may only come from registered voters (and with the current $2000 limit)
    That would exclude money from corporations.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    1. Re:Easy fix by mdarksbane · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And this is incredibly more dangerous than, say, Michael Bloomberg funneling money into "Americans for Safe Streets" and running a bunch of political ads...

      http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527cmtedetail_donors.php?ein=263516710&cycle=2008

      All those opposed to Citizens United are saying is that only the rich should be able to buy free speech.

  5. Re:This was obvious. by epiphani · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just for reference:

    The Canadian election system limits campaign spending to roughly $20 million per major party. The full amount of money allowed in our election is somewhere around $60 million. It costs more to actually run the polling booths. We have a population roughly one tenth of the US. Taking a rough stab at it, you're spending $2.5 Billion for your midterm elections. Or about four times the amount per capita as us.

    Additionally, in our system, a large percentage of that is publicly funded. And the maximum corporate donation is $1000. We have problems with corporate interests and lobbyists in Canada. You guys don't have a problem with it: you're OWNED by corporate interests.

    --
    .
  6. Re:Who cares? by mea37 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Perhaps you're not aware, but the Supreme Court didn't "make [a law] that depend[s] upon [an]OTHER law". The Supreme Court doesn't make laws, period.

    The Court did apparently make assumptions about the implications of a particular interpretation, but that's pretty much unavoidable. It speaks to the excessive complexity of our body of laws that they could not predict the outcome correctly.

    While I disagree with the Court's ruling, the I do not find such severe fault as you do with the specific detail of meaning (but apparently failing to say in a binding way) "...following the same rules as everyone else".

  7. Re:Who cares? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I agree that this goes beyond naive. It is almost unbelievable that the Supreme Court would expect greater transparency where it is not explicitly required.

    The only thing that makes it believable is the rash of other outrageous -- I will go so far as to say stupid -- Supreme Court decisions recently. I won't go into those, but even so I suspect the older members of the Supreme Court of gradually increasing senility, and the newer members of not having properly studied history... in addition to being overly-politically-motivated. Properly speaking, politics should carry no weight in court decisions. I know that is an idealistic dream, but still that is the ideal.

    The thing that makes this ruling by the Supreme Court so outrageous on its face is that corporations simply don't have "rights". They have the legal privilege of acting in business matters as a person. That is all. They do not have a "right" to vote, they do not have a "right" to bear arms, they do not have a "right" to free speech! Sure, individuals within corporations have the right of free speech, but that is not the same thing, and restricting corporate donations does not infringe on that right.

  8. Alito: "Not True": TRUE by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Back in January 2010, Obama gave the State of the Union right after the Court handed down the Citizens United decision. Obama told Congress, with several of the Supremes sitting in the front row, that the decision would allow foreign corporations to influence US elections, which most Americans still realize is a terrible development. Justice Alito, who had just decided in the majority to allow corporations "free speech" by spending unlimited money in US political campaigning, was mad: he angrily mouthed "not true". The corporate mass media attacked Obama for "picking on the justices" by warning Congress and "embarrassing" the court, but of course failed to examine whether it was true.

    Less than a year later, we see it was totally true. We see that foreign corporations have invested huge amounts of money campaigning in the 2010 election. Republican candidates have gotten hundreds of $millions spent to elect them, sponsored by corporations including many foreign ones. The "US" Chamber of Commerce (Inc.) collects money from lots of foreign corporations, especially Indian ones that want US jobs shipped there, foreign banks like Credit Suisse and HSBC that want financial reform repealed, and even corporations owned by foreign kings, like the Emir of Bahrain. Foreign kings are spending more in US election campaigns than US citizens.

    Whether you think that's OK or not (it is very not OK), Alito was totally wrong. And a jerk about it. Not surprising, since Alito was installed by Bush. Alito swore in his Senate confirmation hearings that he would respect established law, but his Citizens United decision overturned lots of established law, went against the basic understanding that corporations are not people, and recklessly unleashed foreign corporate power on US election campaigns.

    He should be impeached. Then he'll be free to skip the State of the Union the way he plans to from now on because he can't stand criticism of his abominable rulings.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  9. Re:Who cares? by Obfuscant · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You're resting on the assumption that all groupings of people are created equal.

    Far from it. That is why I did not say one word about voluntary collaborations of people formed for specifically political purposes.

    Unions are, for the most part, involuntary groupings formed based on employment or occupation, having no political purpose behind them. No, "collective bargaining" is not a political purpose, it is a commercial one.

    ... and in particular an individual's right to expression cannot be exercised by leveraging corporate assets to which he or she might have access.

    Then the same rules should apply to an individual who has access to union dues. Those are just as much "corporate assets" as "company money", and in many cases less so. If I own a company then those corporate assets are, indeed, mine.

    Each corporation has a stated purpose for existing ...

    Just as each union has.

    ... its assets are held to be used only in acceptable ways to advance that purpose,

    That's your opinion, but not the law. I suggest you contact Ben and Jerry's and tell them that their donations to civic causes are not allowed because they do not fall within the scope of "ice cream business". Or Progressive Insurance, which has that name not because they sell progressive insurance.

    ... and the government has every right and interest in constraining what ways are acceptable.

    Again, your opinion. In my opinion, the government has no right, and indeed no Constitutional authority, to tell me that I cannot spend the corporate assets of a company I own in any way I see fit. And for the potential pedant, I'll add "that is legal for any other citizen to spend his money."