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Researchers Find a 'Liberal Gene'

An anonymous reader writes "Liberals may owe their political outlook partly to their genetic make-up, according to new research from the University of California, San Diego, and Harvard University. Ideology is affected not just by social factors, but also by a dopamine receptor gene called DRD4. The study's authors say this is the first research to identify a specific gene that predisposes people to certain political views."

117 of 841 comments (clear)

  1. Oh, just great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now "they" will be able to make a drug to counter-act the receptor and cure liberalness. Just what we need, a pharmacated electorate.

    1. Re:Oh, just great by vlnc · · Score: 4, Funny

      after reading the title, that is exactly what i was hoping for.

    2. Re:Oh, just great by VShael · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Look at the sales figures for Prozac and its ilk. We've already got a pharmacated electorate.

    3. Re:Oh, just great by migla · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Now "they" will be able to make a drug to counter-act the receptor and cure liberalness. Just what we need, a pharmacated electorate.

      Ever heard of medicine that will numb your feelings? That cure that bleeding heart, so to speak? They're way ahead of you...

      Seriously, though: Prozac and the like are a life-saver for some people, while being too liberally prescribed to other people.

      And another point: Once one is thoroughly indoctrinated in the liberal/socialist or whatever morals, one doesn't need to feel liberal feelings to do the right thing. One can think liberal thoughts without feeling.

      I was once prescribed such meds. While the SSRI:s took away my feelings, I didn't feel emotionally about anything, I could still think the "liberal" thoughts I had learned to feel and think during my life. The SSRI:s also took away my fear and care for consequences (maybe they weren't a perfect fit for me?), so I'd often go into 7-11 to steal stacks of ready made meals that I distributed to homeless drug addicts.

      In hindsight, that wasn't very clever and I'm glad I didn't get into trouble.

         

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    4. Re:Oh, just great by ByOhTek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe they'll use it to create a gene therapy to cure conservatism instead?

      Seriously, it's good to have both sides of the coin, because BOTH sides have made a lot of mistakes. Liberals move us forward to try new things, and keep us from falling into some of the traps conservatives seem to favor, and have a flexible/adaptable position. Conservatives keep us from moving to fast, or doing too much of the leap-before-you look, and drop-old-start-new plan before the old plan is done, senselessness that you can see with liberals.

      Hmm... Criticism of both. I think that I shall be well flamed now.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    5. Re:Oh, just great by tuxgeek · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't forget John McCain and his 'little blue pill'
      just what I needed, a visual of an old man with a boner

      --
      "Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
    6. Re:Oh, just great by zero.kalvin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, I remember reading (forgot the name of the specific book) that being liberal or conservative has roots in our evolutionary history. So if this news is absolutely true, it would lend credit to that said theory. As far as a personal opinion, I would think so, being either is influence not just by nurture but by nature as well(if not more nature then nurture).

    7. Re:Oh, just great by thechemic · · Score: 2

      I dont think they'll use it to cure conservatism. Rather, they will likely build a national database of political dispositions so that governments can quickly identify political opponents for other "cures" to their problems.

      --
      Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
    8. Re:Oh, just great by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe they'll use it to create a gene therapy to cure conservatism instead?

      TFA is firewalled off here (it feels like China... or Soviet Russia). Ten year old PC crawling along at a snail's pace on XP... The only thing good about it is it makes my netbook feel like a supercomputer. I think the head of IT here must need this therapy.

      But Google found the story for me.

      According to scientists at UC San Diego and Harvard University, "ideology is affected not just by social factors, but also by a dopamine receptor gene called DRD4." That and how many friends you had during high school.

      Hmmm... that explains the conservative, (actually, downright selfish and power hungry, which "conservative" is a euphemism for) bent you see at slashdot so often.

      It does stand to reason that more social people are going to be liberal. Of course, the conservatives are going to say "dopamine! Liberals are dopes! They're all on DRUGS!"

      Does anybody have a link to the actual study? TFA I found is weak on details.

    9. Re:Oh, just great by BlueScreenO'Life · · Score: 5, Funny

      Here we go again with that evolutionary thingy. Everyone knows the world is 6000 years old and all that evolution stuff is rubbish.

      Whoever disagrees must have something wrong, like, a genetic defect or something.

    10. Re:Oh, just great by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Prozac and its ilk affect dopamine levels as well, so why aren't these selfish power hungry tightwads loosening up some?

      Maybe the conservatives are off their meds?

      (Yeah, I know how I'll be modded. I don't care.)

    11. Re:Oh, just great by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      HEY! I'm an old man with a boner, you insensitive clod!

      Viagra's dirty little secrets are 1) it's a performance enhancing drug. It gives you control over the whole damned experience, and 2) old guys need it because old women are fugly. If I'm with Amy or someone her age, I don't need it at all. I do with a woman my own age.

      BTW, sex is like everything else -- the more you do it the better you get.

      However, viagra's not exactly on topic; it doesn't affect dopamine levels, although orgasm does. I wonder if the researchers took into account how much sex the test subjects got? I suspect that liberals get more than conservatives, because liberals are more social than conservatives.

    12. Re:Oh, just great by Baron+Eekman · · Score: 5, Informative
      Here is one of the authors' home page. Here is the actual paper.

      From the discussion section at the end (emphasis mine):

      For most traits, the effects of individual genes are too small to stand out against the combined influence of all other genes and environmental factors. Thus, our p-value of 0.02 on a sample of 2,000 individuals should be treated cautiously. The expectation in genetics is that only repeated efforts to replicate associations on independent samples by several research teams will verify initial findings like these. Thus, perhaps the most valuable contribution of this study is not to declare that ‘‘a gene was found’’ for anything, but rather, to provide the first evidence for a possible gene-environment interaction for political ideology.

      Contrast this with TFA:

      The study's authors say this is the first research to identify a specific gene that predisposes people to certain political views.

      I hate it when this happens, makes people dumb.

    13. Re:Oh, just great by rwa2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just wanted to bring Jonathan Haidt's "5 Moral Foundations" theory into the conversation.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt

      Or watch the TED video if you're too lazy to read
      http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/341

      Should be easier to tie in dopamine receptor genes to one or more of those traits:

      1. Care for others, protecting them from harm. (He also referred to this dimension as Harm.)
            2. Fairness, Justice, treating others equally.
            3. Loyalty to your group, family, nation. (He also referred to this dimension as Ingroup.)
            4. Respect for tradition and legitimate authority. (He also referred to this dimension as Authority.)
            5. Purity, avoiding disgusting things, foods, actions.

      Strange about the introvert vs. extrovert thing... I would have surmised just the opposite... being an introverted engineer liberal type myself. And conservatives are the ones that typically go out to church to collect as a community.

    14. Re:Oh, just great by Khyber · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Conservatives keep us from moving to fast, or doing too much of the leap-before-you look, and drop-old-start-new plan before the old plan is done,"

      Guess you haven't seen Meg Whitman in action.

      She's the one responsible for the current global Paypal bullshit. Without her, Paypal wouldn't exist.

      Remember, PayPal fucks people over for their own gain, pretending to be a bank while following NONE of the USA regulations.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    15. Re:Oh, just great by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 4, Funny

      Glen Beck is going to be crying about this later today.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    16. Re:Oh, just great by ByOhTek · · Score: 2, Funny

      *ahem*

      Except my girlfriend... And that only helps strengthen my logic to be a pessimist.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    17. Re:Oh, just great by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a nice idea to think that conservatives and liberals are flip sides of the coin, and we need both. Yadda yadda. But it just doesn't work out that way. Conservatives are on the wrong side of history. Consider Afghanistan for instance. There are liberals there, and there are conservatives there. Do they really need those conservatives holding them back? What good does it do them? From our modern perspective we can see just how wrong-headed they are. But left and right over there is the same thing as left and right over here, just centered around a different origin. There's no reason to believe our conservatives are any better than theirs, and in the future we'll look back and see just how wrong-headed they are today. The people calling for the persecution of homosexuals and drug users and mexicans today are no different from the people calling for the persecution of women, blacks, and catholics 100 years ago.

      Now of course liberals aren't perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. But at least liberals make new mistakes, instead of glorifying the same old mistakes. At least liberals look to a future where everyone is better off instead of conservatives who simply try to maintain a power structure that is favorable to them alone.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    18. Re:Oh, just great by sempir · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wonder what Jesus was.

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    19. Re:Oh, just great by daem0n1x · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is incredibly stupid. The word "liberal" doesn't even mean the same thing in different cultures. In my country, "liberal" means right-wing.

    20. Re:Oh, just great by daem0n1x · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Conservatives keep us from moving to fast, or doing too much of the leap-before-you look

      Yeah, the Iraq war is a good example of that.

    21. Re:Oh, just great by SpryGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hrm. Since "conservatives" in the U.S. rung up 80% of the National Debt, and it was the "liberal" President in the 90's that balanced the budget and is the only President in recent memory to actually try and pay the Debt down... your claim doesn't seem to have much basis in fact. I mean, Reagan tripled the debt, Bush Sr nearly doubled it, and Bush Jr doubled it again.

      I am liberal and have been debt free for over ten years. I am very responsible with money, as are my liberal parents, and virtually every liberal friend and relative I know. I know anecdotal evidecne isn't proof, but it sure seems to discount your blanekt characterization of liberals.

      --

      - Spryguy
      There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
    22. Re:Oh, just great by OptimusPaul · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I used to think that I was introverted myself. I am also very liberal. I have noticed however that I am attracted to social interactions. I just want to be with people that are like me and that I'm comfortable with. As for conservatives going to church and the like, that is just so they can feel better about themselves. It's not the community they seek, it's the feeling better than the liberal nut jobs like me.

    23. Re:Oh, just great by OptimusPaul · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "don't spend more than you have" isn't a conservative only view. I'm so sick of the stereotypes. Nearly everyday here in MN we are reminded of how false that is when we hear more about Denny Hecker, a conservative, and his bankruptcy and fraud issues. Liberals are just as likely to live within their means as anyone else. And conservatives are just as likely to do the opposite.

    24. Re:Oh, just great by readin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Conservatives by definition "conserve", they try to keep things the same. That is why "conservatives" in Afghanistan are so different from "conservatives" in America, the status quo in the two places is different, so "keeping things the same" or "going back to the old ways" means very different things, so conservative Afghans are very different from conservative Americans.

      You are right that throughout history "conservatives" have usually opposed positive change - they oppose change by definition. By that same definition, "conservatives" almost always oppose negative change as well. Conservatives opposed communism, Nazism, eugenics, and a lot of other things that they were right to oppose.

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    25. Re:Oh, just great by Zeek40 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you mean American Jesus, or Bible Jesus?

      Bible Jesus was most certainly a Socialist. Give unto Ceasar... , It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven... , love your neighbor... etc, etc.

      American Jesus is an ass kicking, name taking, blonde haired, blue eyed Republican Super-Soldier in God's Army who hates fags, liberals and minorities, and is leading the charge in Crusade v2.0 at the moment.

    26. Re:Oh, just great by jrumney · · Score: 2, Funny

      OK, so being liberal has roots in our evolutionary history, while conservatives were created out of thin air 6000 years ago (minus 5 days).

    27. Re:Oh, just great by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Conservatives opposed communism

      In favor of Tsarism. Great principled stand there guys.

      Nazism

      Hitler was a liberal? Yeah, he did confiscate guns, but nothing characterizes Nazism better than extreme nationalism, a conservative trait.

      eugenics

      Eugenics was supported by both sides. Progressives who thought they could make humanity better, and conservatives who wanted to use genetics to enforce the class structure. Notice how it was always the lower classes who got sterilized.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    28. Re:Oh, just great by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, I presume that we learn things by trying, and it's better to know than not know. If we make a mistake, the liberals will be the first to suggest change, while the conservatives will want things to stay the same.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    29. Re:Oh, just great by slapout · · Score: 5, Funny

      When Jesus comes back he's not coming to take sides, he's coming to take over.

      --
      Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    30. Re:Oh, just great by Zeek40 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I went straight to the source and made my decision from there. It was obvious to me, even as a teenager that the Jesus in the Bible I was forced to read for 18 years at Sunday school was not the same guy that they were talking about in church or politics. The Jesus in the bible was a cool guy who's message was about love. The Jesus everyone else was taking about was a hateful prick.

    31. Re:Oh, just great by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      I tend to think that there was a man named Jesus who he spoke publicly advocating peace and good will and that he was executed by the roman occupation in Judea.

      No miracles, no son of god, no resurrection. Telling fairy tales lessens the depth of his actual message.

    32. Re:Oh, just great by JWW · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's great for you and your parents, and in fact for Bill Clinton.

      But you're new guy Obama is the most mindblowingly fiscally irresponsible President this country has ever seen. Are you going to call him out on that too?

      All these, "I'm an liberal and I'm like this, and I'm so great, and conservatives are just like this and are so evil," comments are utter bullshit. Those kind of arguments are no better than "my Dad is stronger than your Dad" kindergarten arguments. You define both sides by attributing only positive aspects to your side and only negative ones to the "other" side. Intellectually your case is ridiculous and inconsequential.

      This black or white, good vs. bad political posturing onslaught that overwhelms us right now is divisive and destructive. The political debate needs to be just that, a debate. Right now a lot of the political arguments are the equivalent of "You bad, me good."

    33. Re:Oh, just great by Nadaka · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That just means that Obama sucks. He rode a wave of hope and change into the white house and then sold us out and pandered to the republicans. He is a failure. If it wasn't for Reagan and Bush II, Obama would be the worst president of my lifetime.

    34. Re:Oh, just great by zero.kalvin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      he was probably several men at the same time. Where later they were compiled into a single man by borrowing from Osiris some qualities. But at the end this is all speculations, as long as there is no evidence suggesting he did exist, objectively speaking he did not. If we want to think what might have been, that's different and not supported by evidence.

    35. Re:Oh, just great by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I disagree. Stimulus spending is considered by economists to be essential in pulling out of recessions. Putting the war spending IN the budget, instead of dishonestly pushing through money during the year is far better than the previous administrations policy. Healthcare is something that needs to be addressed, and while I think the bill sucks, at least it does SOMETHING.

      Frankly, I can't think of anything more fiscally irresponsible than going to war without raising taxes (indeed, while LOWERING taxes).

      While I wish that both sides were more fiscally conservative, I cannot support the idea that Obama is worse than Bush as far as spending goes.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    36. Re:Oh, just great by JSC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Speaking as a (moderate, Republican) conservative who is married to a (moderate, Democrat) liberal I question your premise. It might apply to the radicals of both stripes but the radicals are a minority. An irritatingly overexposed, embarrassingly vocal and obnoxiously militant minority but still a minority.

      I'd love to see a nationwide, scientifically/statistically accurate survey looking at where people actually are on the Radical Conservative---Moderate Conservative---Undecided---Moderate Liberal---Radical Liberal line. It'd be very interesting to compare those results to the "unbiased news reporting" we get from the various news outlets. If you listen to them it sounds like 99.9% of the people in this country are either radical Conservatives or radical Liberals. My personal belief is that the bell curve distribution would apply but we're only hearing about the extremes because of the "If it bleeds, it leads" policies that the various reporting agencies use either to espouse their own beliefs or kowtow to/curry favor from their advertisers.

      Just my $.02 worth.

      --
      Time's fun when you're having flies. - Kermit the Frog
    37. Re:Oh, just great by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      Quite possibly. Pretty much all the evidence is third hand by the time it got written down.

      I still say that making up fairy tales puts a bad flavor on the wisdom that is attributed to Jesus.

    38. Re:Oh, just great by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Conservatives are on the wrong side of history.

      First, I'm going to disagree with this statement due to the unspoken premises which evidently lead to it being made.

      Your view of 'Conservative' appears to be quite myopic and castigating, cast along a specific political divide, not a first-belief like 'liberalism' or 'conservativism'. What is 'conservative' in your mind? Was it a conservative mindset that kept us out of WWII until Pearl Harbor, or was it a liberal one? Was it a liberal or conservative mindset that led to the British colonizing the world?

      Consider: early Christianity. It wasn't the conservatives who lost those theological battles - it was the liberals (gnostics, etc). Or the liberals who started the French Revolutions (look how well those usually ended for everyone). History is full of many winners and losers of different political stripes, with examples why each was "good" or "bad". (For a counter-example, look at every liberal/populist/Marxist movement that's resulted in significant political change in the last century - none of them have ended well, and most culminated in genocide.)

      Of course conservatives look wrong-headed by your "modern" perspective. The problem with liberalism is that its proponents usually think (due to lack of education and retrospective examination, I suppose?) that their ideas are new, fresh, and intrinsically modern/superior.

      Second, you are actually correct: in this case conservatives (as you cast them) are on the wrong side of history. Liberals are, unfortunately, casting the lot together, and viewing "conservatives" as one stripe, which simply is not true, and is not beneficial. The world body (in the West) has swung so incredibly far "liberal" that even the most wobbly moderate will be viewed as a conservative to the 'educated Western liberal'.

      In my mind, liberalism and conservativism are defined as such:

      * Conservativism is easier to define than liberalism, because it can be summed up as 'appreciates the status quo' or 'is content with the status quo. They're resistant to change until they can no longer resist within reason, and then they quickly accept the change, making good use of it through incremental innovation. They're the societal breaks, so to speak: these people will try to stop any abrupt social or political change.

      * Liberalism likes the new and shiney. Proponents are the inventors of society, pushing new ideas, new technology, and so on. They're the societal motor, and they need the breaks of conservatives to help them around the turns and when there are walls approaching - so the liberals don't kill everyone aboard.

      * The 'moderates'. These people probably don't care, at heart, but are conservative in practice due to the fact that they just want to be left alone. This is the bulk of human kind. It takes a lot for these people to be bothered to get involved.

      * And then there are split-brain people, who seem to be quite conservative in their worldview but are adaptive and welcoming to change. They're somewhat the exception.

      I'd say that, looking at history, countries/nations have done better with fewer liberals and more conservatives (but certainly some liberals). The proportion is likely important, but I'd wager a 20:80:10 ratio of conservative, moderate, liberal would be best for a culture.

      Are you sure you're not referring to fanaticism? It fits within your post better, assuming I adjust for a preference for Marxist dictators.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    39. Re:Oh, just great by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 2

      I've often said it's unfortunate that you met human beings who evidentally you don't like and were basically jerks to you. But you shouldn't extrapolate that out to other people's experiences.

      I grew up in a Methodist church and NEVER felt anything I read was "out of bounds" or was something someone didn't want to hear about. That's basically what makes people uncomfortable - when they are excluded or told certain thoughts must not be thought.

      On the other hand, I get that "certain thoughts must not be thought" vibe from a lot of people here on Slashdot or lots of places, which ramps up the creepiness factor.

      I just count myself lucky that I apparently didn't grow up with such assholes as you did. Kind of feel sorry for ya. :) My people were cool.

    40. Re:Oh, just great by CannonballHead · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Love...

      And also Hell and the punishment for sin and God's love in sending Jesus.

      Jesus was not a "social" figure, nor a "political" figure. Jesus did not come for that, and didn't claim to be that. He was not a "cool" guy. In fact, most people eventually wanted to kill him and release a murderer instead. He offended a lot of people by telling them they were sinning. He made people uncomfortable. He claimed to be a lot of things, He preached some pretty hard messages.

      The only way you can get the "Jesus just wanted us to all love each other" message from the Biblical account is if you take what supports that opinion and disregard the rest...

    41. Re:Oh, just great by Slim_Jack · · Score: 2

      Actually, the give unto Caesar would be more of a free market conservative -- it is the idea that money is separate from personal value, such that the concept of someone deriving value from forcefully extracting wealth from another person (socialism) would be quite apart from spiritual value, which has its own value set quite independent (give unto Caesar that which is Caesars). A socialist would impinge upon the mind that wealth redistribution is of moral value and worthy of spiritual earnest; Jesus said quite the opposite!

    42. Re:Oh, just great by CommieLib · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The whole stimulus thing is a "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" proposition.

      If you're a typical high school graduate, deficit spending in a downturn seems like a bad idea. If you're a college graduate (in something other than economics), it seems like a good idea. If you've got an Economics degree, you're not sure.

      Here's the thing - all of so-called Keynesian economics revolves around an idea called "The Paradox of Thrift" - an error of composition that says while it may be good for an individual to save in hard times, if everyone does it, the aggregate demand curve shifts leftward and you sink ever deeper into a depression. "Stimulus" spending is a measure to thwart this.

      If we accept all of this so far, there are still problems - a high marginal propensity to consume, like the American people have, means that the effect was minimal, i.e., the money would have been spent anyway. Will the money be spent in an economically stimulating way, or will it merely clean out the wish list of the politicians in power? Does the spending create perverse incentives? Does the marginal cost of borrowing outweigh the stimulus as compared to the marginal propensity to consume?

      Like I said, these are all open questions IF YOU ACCEPT THE PARADOX OF THRIFT. But the Paradox of Thrift relies on a situation where people are literally, and not figuratively, sticking their money in mattresses. At least, they are neither consuming nor investing - they are holding cash. If you stick in a savings account at the bank - no POT. If you buy gold - no POT. If you invest in your 401k - no POT. This is all because the money is continuing to circulate as capital formation.

      You can't fault Keynes for this - in his time, people really, literally, stuck money in their mattresses. This is just one of those things we continue to believe academically because it is INCREDIBLY politically expedient, just like ALL tax cuts pay for themselves (some might, under certain circumstances, at certain times). As an economist, I can stipulate conditions under which stimulus spending might work - but those conditions are not the conditions of the 21st century Western world.

      And don't get me started about health care. The problem with health care is insurance, and the bill makes the provision of health care more reliant on insurance. It does something - it makes things far worse. The whole problem is that American refuse to save. Insuring certainties is a sure road to financial ruin - you're not going to outguess the actuaries.

      --
      If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
    43. Re:Oh, just great by david_thornley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Conservatives opposed Communism? In general, yes, although that also meant supporting some pretty unsavory regimes. One could argue that supporting the Tsarist regime or the Chinese government of Chiang Kai-Shek radicalized the opposition, so they were forced to the extreme.

      Conservatives certainly did support National Socialism. Hitler was given power (as Chancellor) by right-wing politicians who thought they could control him. One reason for his rise to power was Goering's association with the industrialists, who tend to be conservative. Outside Germany, many conservatives supported Hitler's rule, even if they deplored some aspects.

      Eugenics? Both ways. Conservatives opposed eugenics movements, and opposed the move away from eugenics.

      On the whole, the world has been becoming a better place for a long time. The role of conservatives in this has been to generally slow down change, which on the good side has often meant restricting changes to ones people were confident would be good.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    44. Re:Oh, just great by scot4875 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Funny, my anecdotal evidence suggests that your anecdotal evidence is a load of crap. Assholes come from all parts of the political spectrum.

      But sure, keep calling names, keep the holier-than-thou attitude, and keep thinking that your shit don't stink. It's really constructive.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    45. Re:Oh, just great by toadlife · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you're a typical high school graduate, deficit spending in a downturn seems like a bad idea. If you're a college graduate (in something other than economics), it seems like a good idea. If you've got an Economics degree, you're not sure.

      What too many people forget is that for Keynesian economics to work, in times of prosperity you must run surpluses, or at the very least, reduce deficit spending to the point where the growth of the economy shrinks your debt ratio. Critics point to the last 30 years as evidence against Keynesian economics, either forgetting or not realizing that in the last 30 years, with the exception of the eight year span of the Clinton administration, our government hasn't actually been practicing it.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    46. Re:Oh, just great by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So long as we're sticking to anecdotes, this comment exchange seems to demonstrate that both "liberals" and "conservatives" are assholes. Just sayin'.

    47. Re:Oh, just great by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Shrug. I think stimulus spending is a valid part of a response to an economic downturn, especially in the current situation, where the Fed had kept rates so low for so long (fueling the inevitable crash) that when the crash came, their power to adjust rates to stimulate lending was largely blunted.

      Likewise, tax rates are exceptionally low right now (lower than Reagan!), so cutting taxes (especially taxes on the wealthy) isn't likely to have much effect either.

      Lot of businesses in this country are keeping their money in their mattresses, even as we speak. We have a large rebound in profitability that isn't matched by hiring. At the same time, retail and tax-driven government services are forced to cut workers (due to shrinking revenues and/or tax base) and that's prolonging the problem.

      Finally, I think that we're in dire need of infrastructure spending anyway and this is a way to build what is needed and stimulate the economy at the same time.

      As far as the healthcare thing goes, my buiggest problem with it is that it perpetuates the effective monopoly of insurance companies, so in that we agree. I think that a public option, and the granting the ability for insurance companies to collectively negotiate against pharmaceutical companies would help immensely.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    48. Re:Oh, just great by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Complaining about the bank bailout is pretty foolish at this point, considering it's on pace to make money. The only thing that irritated me about it is that the government loaned the idiots money, instead of just buying them outright for a fraction of the cost (in early 2008 we gave tens of billions to banks whose value on the market was depressed to less than 10 billion!)

      Sure the conservatives would have screamed "SOCIALISM!" but that's the perfect way to deal with "too big to fail." Buy it up, and then dismantle it back into the private sector for a profit. Instead we just bought the shitty assets...Which wasn't a bad deal, mind. They'll break even with change to spare...but it was stupid.

      Mind you, I don't agree with this as far as the auto companies go: they should have been allowed to tank. Bailing them out just makes them weak.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  2. Where's the gene that makes people believe by VShael · · Score: 2, Funny

    in the bat-sh*t crazy Glen Becks of the world?

    That's got to be deserving of enough research to find a cure. (As best we can tell, about 25% of American people are afflicted.)

    1. Re:Where's the gene that makes people believe by Rijnzael · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's the same gene that makes people loud, manipulative and greedy. So naturally, research should begin with politicians.

    2. Re:Where's the gene that makes people believe by bsDaemon · · Score: 2, Funny

      Precisely. Thomas Jefferson was a liberal. Barbara Boxer is a hippie lesbian with an obnoxious voice.

    3. Re:Where's the gene that makes people believe by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just to keep your post going. Conservatives are more likely to read both left wing and right wing news sources than liberals are: http://www.livescience.com/culture/090608-media-message.html.

      "People with stronger party affiliation, conservative political views, and greater interest in politics proved more likely to click on articles with opposing views, according to the Ohio State study. 'It appears that people with these characteristics are more confident in their views and so they’re more inclined to at least take a quick look at the counterarguments,' Knobloch-Westerwick noted. However, Knobloch-Westerwick added that her latest study was not designed to assess reader motives, and that she hopes to more carefully study the issue in the future. The Brigham Young University survey found that journalists also tended to read liberal blogs — perhaps a reflection of journalists' political beliefs, although even conservatives said liberal blogs were often better-written, Davis pointed out. Among the political blog readers, a similar trend emerged in which 'liberals read almost exclusively liberal blogs, but conservatives tend to read both,' Davis said." (emphasis added).

    4. Re:Where's the gene that makes people believe by T.E.D. · · Score: 2, Funny
      IMHO the part you should have bolded was this:

      .. although even conservatives said liberal blogs were often better-written, Davis pointed out

      The issue isn't that the Conservatives are more open minded. It is that the two kinds are articles aren't equivalent. Or to put it uncharitably, even Conservatives don't want to read that crap.

  3. 'Liberal' Gene? by jordanjay29 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What's wrong with calling it the 'Conservative Gene'? I'm sure it would have been if it had been discovered anywhere between 2 and 10 years ago.

  4. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by Rijnzael · · Score: 3, Informative

    Supposedly, intelligence correlates strongly with liberal tendencies. Somehow I don't think we should all persistently imbibe to see if we can fix that little problem. The same applies to "curing" liberalism, as you put it.

  5. And an absence predisposes you to conservativism? by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As we know, there are only two political viewpoints: right and wrong or, depending on your genetics, left and wrong.

    The reason that I'm going to call bullshit on this is that empirically "lefties" tend to become "righties" through age or experience. A liberal is just a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  6. Re:Instead of a cure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You may not have the liberal gene, but you sure have paranoid schizophrenia.

  7. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by Notquitecajun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Who gets to define "intelligence?"

  8. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 2, Funny

    The "cure" for liberalism is exactly the same as the "cure" for conservatism: elect a lot of it and wait a few years for the electorate to "cure" themselves.

  9. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by spiffmastercow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No dice. Most political differences are a result of disagreement of premises, not conclusions. No amount of formal logic is going to help that.

  10. Re:And an absence predisposes you to conservativis by Obyron · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm sorry, but if we were all going to stop caring about civil liberties and human rights the first time we ran into an asshole, we'd have stopped being liberals the first time we met a conservative. What I find far more likely from your "age or experience" qualification is that some liberals get a degree of success in life, or get old enough to have accumulated some wealth, and they begin covering their own asses. This is alternately called human nature or selling out, depending on whether you're the one doing it or not. Also add in the fact that older people tend to become less zealous about their ideology. Consider phrases like, "Not as young as I used to be," or "too old to fight."

    Anyway, you and I both know this research is bullshit, so let's all get our jokes in. These pukes needed a splashy tag line so they could justify their funding, and they came up with "the liberal gene." This gene doesn't determine your political views any more than one gene determines whether or not you'll be smart. We're not even sure if there's a "gay" gene, and now these guys are so sure they've found a "supports gay marriage" gene? This stuff cheapens science.

    --
    --Obyron
  11. Define "Liberalism" by AnonymousClown · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Everybody is acting like everyone's definition of "Liberal" is the same or the definition of "Conservative" for that matter.

    What's "Liberal"?

    What about moderates? Do they only have a "Liberal" gene from one parent?

    I mean come on, this "study" reeks.

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    1. Re:Define "Liberalism" by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Excellent point. Polls shows that most americans are "liberal" when it comes to social ideas (like allowing gays to marry), but "conservative" when it comes to political ideas (government is best when it is small). At present neither the Democrats nor the Republicans represent that view. Neither do simple labels.

      For myself: I just want people to stay out of my damn wallet.

      I sweat & labor to earn the wealth, and somebody takes it away for their OWN enrichment. I'm beginning to understand how an indentured servant must have felt (he worked but the wealth went to the landlord). - Yes I'm sorry you ran into a wall and broke your hip, but you've had a job for ~30 years. You have money and should pay the bill yourself out of your personal wages/savings - just like I pay my own bills out of my own account. AFTER you run out of money I'll gladly help you (via welfare, medicare) but nor prior to that.

      A safety net should be exactly that - a net. Not an entitlement given to people who are still on the "highwire" of life and don't need it.

      IMHO

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:Define "Liberalism" by HungryHobo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which is perfect if life is fair and people have control over what happens to them.

      unfortunately it tends not to be.
      Shit quite often happens to people effectively independent of their own actions.
      Some drunk swerves onto the sidewalk and hits you or your home floods.
      That's not reasonably within your control.

      If poverty wasn't a highly inheritable affliction then it would be fine.

      unfortunately it tends to be.
      You have to be either extremely unlucky or extremely foolish or inept to be born to rich parents and then become poor. It happens all the time but only to a minority.
      You have to be either extremely lucky or exceptionally driven and capable to be born to poor parents and become rich.It happens all the time but only to a minority.

      In a Brave New World or Logans Run style society where your chances of doing well in life are completely independent of your parents and in a fair perfect surveillance society where liability for harm could always be assigned to those responsible in a perfectly fluid economic system where everyone has perfect information, is a rational actor and can move freely your approach is completely and utterly rational and fair.

      unfortunately the real world is none of those things.

      People often get hurt through no fault of their own.
      People who grew up with shitty parents, went to a shitty school, live in a shitty neighbourhood and now have a shitty minimum wage job often simply can't afford insurance against unexpected medical problems or natural disasters so when they happen they get screwed over far harder than people who had better chances in life.
      Even those who have medical insurance but had to go for the cheaper option often end up screwed because the policy turns out to cover everything except what happens.

      But of course that's unfair on you, the poor guy who gets injured in a hit and run should drag himself home and care for his own injuries rather than being irresponsible and going to a hospital.
      If he ends up with a massive medical bill it's only his fault and before he gets any help whatsoever he should declare bankruptcy and forego any chance of ever getting a loan to buy a house or start a business ever again because if the government pays his bills then that's just making you as a taxpayer an indentured servant.

  12. Re:Yay! by wed128 · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's actually kind of offensive. The liberals in this country have done most of the freedom-damaging legislating in this country. Big government etc.

    The conservative base is about all we have protecting our freedom at this point.

  13. Re:New Minority Anyone? by wed128 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Republican != Conservative.

    There is a huge overlap, but there are liberal republicans (just like there are conservative democrats).

  14. A circular process? by mangu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The SSRI:s also took away my fear and care for consequences (maybe they weren't a perfect fit for me?), so I'd often go into 7-11 to steal stacks of ready made meals that I distributed to homeless drug addicts.

    The funny thing is that if those homeless were addicted to the same SSRI:s that made you steal it would create a positive-feedback system...

    Seriously, maybe your "liberal" thoughts weren't too precise to begin with. Perhaps the solution to homelessness caused by drug addiction should be to cure the addiction instead of feeding the homeless.

    To cure the addiction, the "conservative" way would be to punish drug addicts enough that no one would dare to try to use drugs. The "scientific" way would be to find what happens inside the brain that causes some people to become addicted to drugs.

  15. Re:Yay! by ari_j · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I disagree. Americans' freedom is best protected by deadlock between the purported liberals and the purported conservatives.

  16. Are you listening to what you are saying? by damn_registrars · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you're asking for a cure, you already are leaning towards a particular view. Your statement of a "cure" is just you stating that you feel people of a particular persuasion need to be "fixed".

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  17. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by benjamindees · · Score: 2, Informative

    Young adults who subjectively identify themselves as "very liberal" have an average IQ of 106 during adolescence while those who identify themselves as "very conservative" have an average IQ of 95 during adolescence.

    Except it holds true even before university.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  18. Re:Looking at this another way: by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have friends that self-identify from socialist to religiously conservative to libertarian. I even have openly gay friends. I do not attend church. I voted for Bush and refer to myself as conservative. I am also getting a MA in Political Science. Not every conservative is a close-minded, uneducated religious fanatic. There are many of us out there who have examined both ideologies and have found that the conservative camp is closest to our beliefs. We feel that our money is our money, and-except for what the government needs to provide ESSENTIAL functions of a government, ie defense, infrastructure, and administration- should be left with us to spend as we see fit. No redistribution of wealth, up or down. Everyone should pay their fair share, the poor, the rich, and those in between. We are out there, we are slowly getting our voices heard, and as much as the Tea Partiers and the Glenn Becks and the Rush Limbaughs would like to subvert our message and supplant it with fanatics, we will get our shot. Please, do not lump all conservatives together. Many of us are very open minded and can think for ourselves.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  19. Not A "Liberal Gene" by careysub · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The gene in question does not "make someone liberal". It is a gene that promotes novelty seeking, and leads to many wide ranging friendships in adolescence, resulting in exposure to many points of view, and this predisposes one to be liberal as an adult (this is all in the TA).

    Without the 'wide ranging friendships in adolescence' there is no effect. It is the life experience of being open to other points of view, the additional knowledge gained, that makes you more likely to be liberal.

    For the conservatives here crowing nonsense about "curing liberalism", perhaps the fact that absence of this gene promotes the opposite - fewer friends and ignorance of other points of view - should make one be less enthused with this finding. Unless, of course "closed mindedness" is considered a conservative virtue.

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    1. Re:Not A "Liberal Gene" by Bob-taro · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is the life experience of being open to other points of view, the additional knowledge gained, that makes you more likely to be liberal.

      I guess it depends on your definition of liberal. Most self-proclaimed liberals I know are not very open to other views. The open-mindedness they are interested in is MY open mindedness to THEIR ideas.

      I also don't like the comment about 'curing liberalism'. I admit that's the first thing I thought, too, and I'm sure it was meant in jest, but this recent trend of linking everything to a gene - the "gay" gene, the "smart" gene, the "religious" gene, and now the "liberal" gene. Every time I hear a new one, I wonder how long before someone will use it to justify some kind of "cleansing".

      --
      Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
  20. Re:And an absence predisposes you to conservativis by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm sorry, but if we were all going to stop caring about civil liberties and human rights the first time we ran into an asshole, we'd have stopped being liberals the first time we met a conservative.

    So how long did it take for the Liberals to convince you that only they care about civil liberties and human rights?

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  21. Re:And an absence predisposes you to conservativis by Kreigaffe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I find your premise that conservatives don't care about civil liberties or human rights -- that only liberals care about such things -- laughably pathetic and ill-informed.

    --
    ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
  22. Hmmm... by damn_registrars · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I seem to recall hearing of a certain young republican who went to an Ivy League school and partied through his undergraduate on his father's dime (and reputation). He pulled pretty lackluster grades, really nothing to be proud of at all considering he wasn't working at the time and had nothing else that he needed to do beyond school. He then went to another Ivy League school afterwards for an MBA, also on his father's dime and reputation. He was known for using drugs and alcohol during those times as well, and didn't get particularly good grades as an MBA student either.

    He then attempted to run a few businesses, with some assistance from his dad at getting in to those businesses. Most of those, he ran into the ground (including a petroleum company in a petroleum-rich state when petroleum was only continuing to gain in value).

    So what ever happened to this young republican? He decided to follow his dad into politics. There he also couldn't get far without his dad's help; eventually being appointed president of the united states by some of his dad's close friends.

    Don't tell us republicans don't get hand-outs.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:Hmmm... by careysub · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And then there is this absolutely priceless anecdote about Billy Kristol, the scion of the founder of The Weekly Standard: http://thegspot.typepad.com/blog/2008/10/most-awesome-wi.html .

      I remember back in the late '90s when Ira Katznelson, an eminent political scientist at Columbia, came to deliver a guest lecture to an economic philosophy class I was taking. It was a great lecture, made more so by the fact that the class was only about ten or twelve students and we got got ask all kinds of questions and got a lot of great, provocative answers. Anyhow, Prof. Katznelson described a lunch he had with Irving Kristol back either during the first Bush administration. The talk turned to William Kristol, then Dan Quayle's chief of staff, and how he got his start in politics. Irving recalled how he talked to his friend Harvey Mansfield at Harvard, who secured William a place there as both an undergrad and graduate student; how he talked to Pat Moynihan, then Nixon's domestic policy adviser, and got William an internship at The White House; how he talked to friends at the RNC and secured a job for William after he got his Harvard Ph.D.; and how he arranged with still more friends for William to teach at UPenn and the Kennedy School of Government. With that, Prof. Katznelson recalled, he then asked Irving what he thought of affirmative action. "I oppose it", Irving replied. "It subverts meritocracy."

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    2. Re:Hmmm... by careysub · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Here, I fixed it for you.

      Don't tell us people with rich parents don't get hand-outs.

      It's got nothing to do with ideology. Heck just look at the Kennedy's, or some of the other liberal New England political families.

      The difference though is that the Kennedys are not hypocrites like the Bushs. The Kennedys readily acknowledge that their personal success is largely due to great wealth and powerful connections, in addition to any personal merits, and seek to assist those who are born without the silver spoon.

      The privileged right pretend it is only their personal merits that cause them to succeed, and that it is a terrible thing to try helping those lacking a fortune. As Ann Richards said (about GHW Bush) "He was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple." This is infinitely more true of his thoroughly incompetent offspring GW Bush.

      .

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  23. Active Social Life is Key by digitaldc · · Score: 2, Informative

    "people with a specific variant of the DRD4 gene were more likely to be liberal as adults, but only if they had an active social life in adolescence."

    In other words, they had friends and fun times growing up which leads them to be adventurous and outgoing.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  24. Re:Yay! by liposuction · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And all the Patriot Act sunsets removed by who? OH! Right! Obama.

    George Bush was no more conservative than Obama is. Stop thinking in terms of Donkeys and Elephants. Think more government and less government.

    Expand your political spectrum a bit to actually include liberty. Nothing that George Bush did, with the exception of striking back at the people that attacked us on 9/11, had anything to do with liberty and less government.

    --
    "Thoughts are more powerful than any weapon, and I don't even let my people own guns." --Joseph Stalin
  25. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by mister_dave · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the liberal will gladly give their candy away to the children & the conservative will take the candy away from the little ones and hoard as much as they can get

    Nope.

    Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household

  26. And who gets to define "liberal?" by mangu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem with the word "liberal" is that it can be used for any position in the political spectrum.

    To some people, a "liberal" is someone who believes the government should take care of people who have been left behind someway in the economic process, the unemployed, the homeless, those who are at a disadvantage in some way. Under that point of view, Cuba should be considered one of the most "liberal" regimes in the world.

    To other people, a "liberal" is someone who believes in liberty, in letting everyone do their own thing, in a minimalist government.

    1. Re:And who gets to define "liberal?" by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Liberal as it relates to a liberal education http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_education, "a philosophy of education that empowers individuals with broad knowledge and transferable skills, and a stronger sense of values, ethics, and civic engagement, characterized by challenging encounters with important issues, and more a way of studying than a specific course or field of study". Could it be any simpler.

      There is a direct correlation between welfare net and crime, the more effective the social welfare net the lower the crime rate. It is simply enlightened self interest to have an effective social welfare net. For the idiot right wingers who refuse to accept the blindingly obvious, for the numb nuts of the political spectrum simply compare Canada, to the US, to Mexico, of course right wingers will want to waffle on all kinds of bullshit rather than accept the obvious.

      The liberal gene could also be the empathic and or socially conscious gene, the basis upon which human societies are formed rather than the sociopath gene the basis upon which human societies are torn apart in bloody violence (the far right gene).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    2. Re:And who gets to define "liberal?" by Andrew+Cady · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To some people, a "liberal" is someone who believes the government should take care of people who have been left behind someway in the economic process, the unemployed, the homeless, those who are at a disadvantage in some way. Under that point of view, Cuba should be considered one of the most "liberal" regimes in the world.

      Sorry, but no, communism is NOT being more of a democrat than the democrats. Communist politics simply do not fit on this spectrum.

      There's a qualitative difference between saying that the underclass should have a better standard of living than they do now, and saying that the existence of an underclass should be abolished.

    3. Re:And who gets to define "liberal?" by debrain · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To some people, a "liberal" is someone who believes the government should take care of people who have been left behind someway in the economic process, the unemployed, the homeless, those who are at a disadvantage in some way. Under that point of view, Cuba should be considered one of the most "liberal" regimes in the world.

      Ironically, the welfare state (which concept I believe subsumes what you've described as what some people call "liberal") was originally a conservative concept, founded on the idea that if people needn't be concerned about risk (e.g. to their health) they will be able to do more work.

      I don't have a link to that on the web, but I recall reading that in Niall Ferguson's book the Ascent of Money.

  27. Well, duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So you're saying there's a gene that makes people realize that it's better to try to solve problems before they occur, that makes you realize things can change, and that "look out for number one" isn't a policy that gets us very far as a species? So, basically it's the same as the gene for intelligence.

  28. Re:And an absence predisposes you to conservativis by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 4, Funny

    8 years.

    --
    <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
  29. Conservative/Liberal vs the startle response by DieByWire · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A study a couple of years ago noted a tie between a strong startle response and conservatism.

    Still waiting to see a 'Fearful by nature, conservative by choice' tee shirt.

    --
    Never shake hands with a man you meet in a fertility clinic.
  30. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by mapkinase · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sorry for highjacking your high-scoring comment, but otherwise noone will read my late comment which I think could be useful for people who want to go in details:

    Here is the original article:

    http://jhfowler.ucsd.edu/friends_drd4_and_political_ideology.pdf

    The study's authors say this is the first research to identify a specific gene that predisposes people to certain political views.

    but not the first research linking the same gene to a very similar trait:

    ...(DRD4), which has previously been associated with novelty seeking

    Basically, what commentator in the original post says is that "novelty seeking" is correlated with leaning towards liberal views. Surprise!

    I leave ripping the paper on the basis of liberal (no pun intended) usage of statistics to others here.

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  31. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by chris+mazuc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From your link:

    The single biggest predictor of someone's altruism, Willett says, is religion. It increasingly correlates with conservative political affiliations because, as Brooks' book says, "the percentage of self-described Democrats who say they have 'no religion' has more than quadrupled since the early 1970s." America is largely divided between religious givers and secular nongivers, and the former are disproportionately conservative. One demonstration that religion is a strong determinant of charitable behavior is that the least charitable cohort is a relatively small one -- secular conservatives.

    How much more likely are they to give to non-religious charities (as in not the church they attend)? Most non-religious people don't go hang out somewhere on Sundays where there is a collection plate going around.

    --
    E pluribus unum
  32. Re:there is a cure for it by hoshino · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yes. All rich people are rich because they worked hard and all poor people are poor because they did not. And yes, how much you earn is perfectly proportional to how much you contribute to society. This explains Wall Street, the best and brightest of your great nation, perfectly.

    After all, it makes much more sense to let the country's infrastructure fall apart and the children of the working poor be left uneducated, than to pay taxes to invest in the country you live in. The tax money you save can be used to pay for a business class flight out of the country when it turns into shit. You can then retire and enjoy functioning infrastructure built with other people's tax money.

    It really does make complete sense from an individual perspective. I guess progressivism fails because it assumes that people can actually care about anyone but themselves.

  33. Re:Yay! by careysub · · Score: 5, Informative

    And all the Patriot Act sunsets removed by who? OH! Right! Obama.

    George Bush was no more conservative than Obama is. Stop thinking in terms of Donkeys and Elephants. Think more government and less government.

    Expand your political spectrum a bit to actually include liberty. Nothing that George Bush did, with the exception of striking back at the people that attacked us on 9/11, had anything to do with liberty and less government.

    You are right to identify Obama as a conservative, he is moderate conservative, well to the right in many areas compared with, say, Richard Nixon. His health care reform plan is very similar to Mitt Romney's for example, and much more conservative than Nixon's plan (not enacted due to the collapse of his presidency). In the Eisenhower era he might well have been a Republican. (Which puts paid to the utterly-disconnected-from-reality ranting about him being a "socialist" much less a Marxist).

    Bush was/is however far more right wing than Obama. Being right-wing is not the same thing as being conservative. The right wing radicalism of the "Tea Party" (seeking to remove constitutional amendments, or else suspend their effect?) is not conservative at all.

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  34. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well first, to take your example of Amtrak, whether it worked and why it worked or didn't work is still open to interpretation. I notice you limited your "results" to Amtrak's overall balance sheet. You haven't taken into account the benefit Amtrak brought to the people who do take trains, nor the alleviation of car traffic brought to congested cities. There's also the fact that some routes are more heavily trafficked than others, and Amtrak could be said to be very successful if you only looked at those routes. So in some ways, I'd say that Amtrak is a successful program.

    But also your criticism of "not enough customers" doesn't begin to address the question of "why weren't there enough customers?" There are tons of socioeconomic issues involving culture, infrastructure development, and civic design that lead to a situation where taking a train is undesirable or infeasible-- but most of those things can be changed.

    In reality, most people decide first whether they like/dislike public transportation on emotional grounds, and then find arguments that support their position.

  35. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by robot256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >>>Most political differences are a result of disagreement of premises, not conclusions.

    What do you mean? It seems like logic would work. You create a program (say Amtrak), look at the results (near-bankruptcy), and then decide whether or not it worked (it didn't unfortunately - not enough customers).

    Case in point: Your premise is that the purpose of Amtrak was to make a profit. In fact, the purpose of Amtrak was to preserve valuable infrastructure that the private sector was no longer able to maintain due to heavily-subsidized air and road competition. In that regard it was mildly successful, in spite of funding problems, and has proven its worth many times (including the post-9/11 grounding and the Katrina evacuation, to name a few).

  36. I hope it's a recessive gene by OhHellWithIt · · Score: 2, Funny

    If it's not a recessive gene, then my conservative parents may have a difficult conversation ahead of them.

    --
    "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
  37. Should've read the article by chrb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    after reading the title, that is exactly what i was hoping for.

    Awesome, let's make everyone exactly the same! I, for one, welcome our new heterosexual, uniform-skin-toned, drugs-and-alcohol-hating, women-should-be-in the-home-not-working, lets-pretend-the-world-never-changes population! </sarcasm>

    Actually, it seems you should've read the article:

    people with the novelty-seeking gene variant would be more interested in learning about their friends' points of view. As a consequence, people with this genetic predisposition who have a greater-than-average number of friends would be exposed to a wider variety of social norms and lifestyles, which might make them more liberal than average

    So, according to the hypothesis, liberals seek out novelty and challenges, have more friends, and gain more life experience. Those are generally acknowledged as positive traits - maybe the true genetic flaw is in those who lack a copy of this specific gene variant? Anyway, interesting to see this follow on from similar news in 2008.

  38. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by chrb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Give a logical reasoning test to subjects and correlate with political affiliation.

    Here's an interesting one. Alcohol ranks higher than cannabis on all measures of harm to both oneself and society at large. Logically, if the aim of drugs policy is as stated - to minimise the harm that drugs cause - then either both drugs should be treated the same (legal/illegal) or cannabis should be legal and alcohol illegal. That is the only logical result given the stated premise for drug control (a premise that appears to be accepted by the population at large). Conservatives are generally opposed to legalising cannabis. Liberals are generally supportive of legalising cannabis. Which is the more logical in this case?

  39. Re:Yay! by stdarg · · Score: 2, Informative

    I just read Richard Nixon's proposal for health care reform. It's not at all conservative and I don't see how you can use it as a marker for the division between conservative and liberal.

    http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/03/nixon-proposal.aspx

  40. Re:Looking at this another way: by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wow. First, I'm impressed that you make enough money to lose 40% to taxes. I've never known anyone to pay more than about 25% of their income in federal taxes (they made well over $500,000/yr). You probably have state taxes. MD was pretty rough at ~5-6% of actual gross income. Cali might be the worst - it's close to 8% (top bracket is 11% iirc).

    Note: When I lived in CA a decade ago - before the Bush tax cuts - My wife and I made $120k+/- and had no deductions (renters, no kids). We paid 10% federal and 5-6% state on our gross income.

    So you've got 25% fed, 8% state, and 7.5% FICA (I'm assuming you count that as a tax) - but that doesn't jive, 'cause once you hit $80-100k, FICA drops to just medicare which is only 1.5%. What else is getting taken out?

    Here's what I don't understand. You asked for:

    In this world I want something back that affects me directly and personally, i.e. a retirement plan that is immune from market manipulation, health care even when I'm unemployed, etc.

    Well, the 7.5% you pay (and the 7.5% your employer pays) for FICA goes to the retirement plan that is immune from market manipulation known as Social Security. You also seem to want health care even when you're unemployed, and that's called medicaid. The check you get when you're unemployed? That's part of FUTA (and SUTA) which is a tax paid by your employer.

    Before those taxes, nobody footed the bill. The rich and powerful didn't give a shot about the little guy. You were at the mercy of local charities, and people died of malnutrition and illnesses which were easily curable.

    What bugs me is people who think they pay too much, but use an inordinate amount of taxpayer resources. People with children: I'm looking at you. Every child that gets sent to a public school costs about $10,000 a year. Attend an in-state college? That counts, too. I know very few people who actually pay more than $20,000 in taxes, but a lot of people who have 2 or more kids. And to top it off, for each kid you have, you actually get a tax *reduction*. One of my employees makes $50k, has two kids (not in school yet), and pays essentially zero federal and state income taxes. But I digress...

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  41. In the end, conservatives always lose by pnuema · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In the final analysis, liberals always win. If we didn't, we'd still be living in caves. Always remember that.

    1. Re:In the end, conservatives always lose by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not so sure about that. There's still plenty of time for us to end up back in caves.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  42. Chopstick gene by JohnFluxx · · Score: 2, Funny

    Did the researchers avoid making the mistake of the "chopstick gene"?

    There's a gene that determines how good you are with chopsticks. It's otherwise known as the blue-eye gene...

  43. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by fahlesr1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have met many intelligent people who had very unintelligent views. Academics sometimes live in such a different world that they'll advocate action that makes perfect sense on paper, but that would fail in practice.

    There is a significant difference between intelligence and wisdom. I would argue wisdom is much less common than intelligence, and that people who are wise are not a strict subset of people who are intelligent.

  44. Lack of gene makes conservatism more likely by wonkavader · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let's read that again, so that it's more clear.

    Researchers have found a gene which, when lacking in humans, leads them to be far more likely to fall into conservatism.

    People without the novelty-seeking gene variant would be less interested in learning about their friends' points of view. As a consequence, people with this genetic predisposition may be more conservative than average.

  45. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by spiffmastercow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I boil down to only this: Amtrak is a company. It should survive or fail without help from the government. I didn't say anything about the countries entire train system.

    And the reason you disagree is because you start with different premises. Your argument is:

    P1.) Amtrack's purpose is to make a profit
    P2.) Amtrack did not make a profit
    C.) Amtrack failed.

    His argument is:
    P1.) Amtrack's purpose is to provide public transportation.
    P2.) Amtrack has provided public transportation.
    C.) Amtrack succeeded

  46. Re:there is a cure for it by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Informative

    A young teenage girl was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat but her father was a rather staunch Republican.

    One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to taxes and welfare programs. He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school.

    She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study most of the time, and she seldom had time to go out and party. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of spending so much time studying.

    He asked, "How is your friend Mary?" She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA and studied harder than her, but couldn't study as much because she had to work for money. Between working and studying she never had time to go out and party. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of spending all her time working to pay her tuition and books.

    Dad then asked his daughter why she didn't help her friend out with her tuition and books, since her grandfather's inheritance had left her well off.

    The daughter angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! It's MY money!

    The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

  47. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by Insightfill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Re: Amtrak. Very little transit is self-sufficient, economically: mass-transit or personal. In the case for an airport, a city may spend many dollars building roads to and from an airport, provide security, and so-on. This money is rarely collected directly back from the airport via the airline tickets, but the city expects that the net economic benefit to itself will be best due to tourism, etc. Thus, in their own way, airports are subsidized.

    Roadways are another example: roads are built using tax dollars, usually derived from a general fund and not distinct from gas taxes. The roads are built under the premise that allowing people to get where they want will be a net-positive economically for the area.

    No mass-transit system I can think of survive solely on fares. Amtrak has the added curse that many routes and stops were added during its inception purely for political pork; a legislator's vote for initial and continued Amtrak funding could be best assured by giving the train a stop in their district. If you've ever taken Amtrak, you'd know that many of the stops are in the middle of nowhere - some trains carry more than the town population.

  48. Science: Deficient gene causes Conservative views by Scrameustache · · Score: 2, Insightful

    from the let-the-flame-war-begin dept.
    science
    politics
    Scrameustache writes "Conservatives may owe their political outlook to their genetic make-up, according to new research from the University of California, San Diego, and Harvard University. Ideology is affected not just by social factors, but also by a dopamine receptor gene called DRD4. Lead researcher James H. Fowler and his colleagues hypothesized that people with the novelty-avoiding gene variant would be less interested in learning about other points of view."

    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

  49. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by Richy_T · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm a libertarian but I have to say, there's a fair argument to be made that Amtrack is having to compete against a heavily subsidized road program. It's definitely not a level playing field but when the government is involved, what is?

  50. RTFA by jjohn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This article is yet another example of the media getting science wrong.

    And it's great to see that eugenics appeared in the /. comment thread nearly immediately.

  51. Re:Yeah, Right... by Omestes · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And yet here we are with arguably the most liberal president and congress ever...

    I'm arguing. Obama isn't very liberal, he's a conservative Democrat. Why am I arguing this, for the very reasons you state in your post. His actions are not very liberal in that he's basically acting like the conservatives before him. The only liberal thing he has done, so far, is the healthcare crap, which is more like welfare for Insurance companies than any actual liberal proposal.

    I am a liberal (according to the silly politics test I'm further left than Gandhi and Nelson Mandela, though also more libertarian than Ron Paul), and Obama just looks like a slightly lesser conservative than Bush, Bush, or Reagan. Same with Clinton, to be honest. I don't think we've had a fully liberal president in the US since FDR.

    --
    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  52. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by DragonWriter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I boil down to only this: Amtrak is a company.

    This is a fact.

    It should survive or fail without help from the government.

    This is a value proposition on which rationality has nothing to say, and furthermore on which there is, in practice, no consensus. Its a controversial value proposition in the case of "companies" generally, and its a particularly controversial value proposition in the case of companies established by the government for the purpose of acheiving government policy goals.

    Yes, once you assume that everyone agrees with you on all value propositions, its easy to further conclude that rationality is all you need to get to consensus on policy. The problem there, though, is with that first assumption.

  53. Re:Yeah, Right... by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do you actually buy into what you're saying?

    Of course. I never argue a position I don't believe is valid.

    Do you actually think anybody with a liberal ideology actually is smarter, better, and less likely to repeat their mistakes?

    Oh, no not at all. I didn't mean to say that all liberals are smarter than all conservatives, or that any specific liberal is smarter than any specific conservative. These are admittedly generalizations, frequently wrong but with an element of truth.

    Consider the debate between science and religion. Both claim to be ways of finding truth. Now I've met some pretty stupid scientists and some really smart priests. But science on the whole has a much better track record for finding facts and improving the lives of people than religion does.

    And yet here we are with arguably the most liberal president and congress ever.

    You could argue that, but you'd be wrong. Consider the two biggest things this president has done, passed health care reform, and stimulus spending. His health care plan is more conservative than Nixons, so he's certainly no liberal there. His stimulus policies were just a continuation of Bush's, so that doesn't sound too liberal either.

    Guantanamo is still open, the Iraq war is still ongoing, and most of the Patriot act is still in place or is being expanded. The poor will probably become slightly less poor, the middle class will become poor, and the really rich will stay really rich and in power.

    And all these things are happening because of insufficient liberalism on the part of our government. Conservatives created the fiction that Guantanamo was outside of US jurisdiction. Conservatives lied their way into the Iraq war. Conservatives wrote the Patriot act (though the Democrats (none of them liberals) who voted for it are not without blame). And the gap between the rich and poor has gotten ever wider in the last 30 years of Conservative rule.

    These policies continue because our government can in no way be described as liberal.

    Now of course conservatives aren't perfect. But at least they usually aren't willing to force their untested ideologically-based and ridiculously expensive systems on people.

    War on Drugs? Don't Ask Don't Tell? The War in Iraq? Border fences? Abstinence only education?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  54. Re:Whew... So there is hope for a cure? by nine-times · · Score: 2, Informative

    Taxis and buses could do the exact-same job, and they are profitable.

    No, they don't do the exact-same job. I can't reasonably take a taxi from Boston to Washington DC, and taking that trip on a train vs a bus is a pretty different experience in terms of reliability, comfort, and throughput.

    Yeah I've looked at the numbers for my area (Baltimore). The number of Amtrak riders is 0.1% of the total number of daily commuters

    Yeah, but you're talking about commuters in Baltimore. What are you going to do when the Amtrak train lets you out in Penn Station, take the light rail? The problem isn't the train, the problem is that you live in fricken Baltimore.

    I agree with this point, but you'll notice those routes never get shutdown.

    Yes, and part of the reason is because the point isn't necessarily to be profitable, but to provide a public transportation option.

    The C64 is an old obsolete technology, and so too is the train, because it's tied to steel rails and can't go anywhere but where the rails lead it.

    That's madness, frankly. It's like saying planes are an obsolete form of transportation because you can only go to other airports. Or saying Internet backbones are obsolete because they don't cover the last mile. Aside from shipping on water, rail is the most energy efficient form of travel. Newer trains can go hundreds of miles per hour much more safely than anything on a road.

    I can hop in my car right now, and drive to the beach, without having to check schedules. I can even do it in the middle of the night, when trains do run.

    I can hop on a train and go to the beach right now, without having to check schedules. I can do it in the middle of the night, because the trains run 24/7. And I can do it without spending tens of thousands of dollars on a car, paying for gas and maintenance, and buying car insurance. And if I get drunk on the beach, I can get back home without driving drunk. Don't blame the technology because your city sucks.

  55. Re:there is a cure for it by scot4875 · · Score: 2, Informative

    And then she shot back, "these two things aren't even remotely comparable, you nitwit." The father's smile quickly vanished from his face.

    She never spoke to her father again, due to his poorly reasoned attempts to control her.

    --Jeremy

    --
    Jesus was a liberal
  56. DRD4 is apparently a major behavioral modulator by jhantin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A broken dopamine receptor D4 (the same gene TFA is about) also has a tendency to make one less vulnerable to addiction, and especially stress addiction. For an example of how painful a runaway stress-driven dopamine feedback loop can be, look no further than Dilbert.

    --
    ...when you're writing a game...tweak the difficulty of "Easy" to something [your mother] can cope with. -- onion2k