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Diablo 3 Hands-On

At this year's Blizzcon, we got to try out a section of Diablo 3 that was pulled directly from the single-player storyline and playable with all classes. A large number of skills and abilities were playable, and the skill rune system has been implemented, a feature that was lacking for last year's demo build. We also got to spend some time trying out the newly announced PvP system — Battle Arenas. Read on for a walk-through of Diablo 3 as we've seen it so far. In short: it's shaping up to be an excellent game, and a worthy successor to Diablo 2. Read on for more.

The demo started me off at with a level 9 character and dropped me into a dungeon, offering up two objectives: fight my way through and, as a bonus, find and destroy a particular boss. From the start, it had a very familiar feel. I took a few steps down the hall and got rushed by a group of monsters, which I quickly mowed down by mashing the buttons on my mouse. It's Diablo, alright. Here I paused to actually read my abilities and see how the UI worked. If you've followed along with the game's development at all, you're probably aware of the fact that the Diablo 2 potion belt is gone. The 1-5 keys are now used to activate skills displayed on an action bar at the bottom of the screen. The right and left mouse buttons also activate skills (ostensibly the most-used ones), and pressing tab will swap back and forth between two skills bound to the right mouse button. Subtract one of those slots for health potions and you've got seven easily-accessible skills.

Skills:

Of course, I didn't get that many to start; instead, they're doled out as a character levels up, increasing the complexity of combat slowly but steadily. Blizzard has done away with the talent-trees of old, so picking skills is a lot tougher. Instead, every few levels a new skill slot unlocks, and you get to pick an actual activated ability that you'll immediately start using to kill monsters. On the levels in between the unlocks, you can power up one of your existing skills. All of the passive, math-y talents that were prevalent in Diablo 2 are dealt with through a different system, called Traits. Traits are a wide variety of passive bonuses that you get to spend points in every couple levels — things like boosting a particular stat, or increasing the amount of gold monsters drop. They're pretty straight-forward — not that exciting, but a nice, consistent way to make your character stronger in some way.

As it happens, attaining level 10 unlocks a skill slot (the fourth), so after spending a little time wading through the demonic hordes inhabiting the dungeon, I leveled up and tried to make a decision. It was pretty difficult to choose. There are a lot of fun-sounding or powerful-sounding skills, and you're just not able to get all of them. One of Blizzard's mantras of late has been about having the player make meaningful decisions, and this certainly qualified. They've stated in the past that some form of respec will be added to the game. They haven't ironed out the details, but they don't want it to be trivial. If I hadn't had a limited amount of time, I would have spent quite a while pondering which skill to take. It would have been nice to have some sort of preview, or a minute-long grace period to swap to something else. But it definitely created a feeling that there were more good options I'd be able to get in later levels.

I'll get to the individual classes and their skills in a moment, but one more feature that needs to be introduced is the Skill Rune system. This is a concept Blizzard has been playing with for a while, and last year it was in the midst of a redesign, so we didn't get to try it out. It works like this: each skill in your spellbook has one slot to which you can add a Skill Rune. The Rune then modifies how the skill works. It's somewhat similar to gem sockets in items. There are five different colors of runes, and each color will modify the skill in a different way. Runes have seven ranks, which modify how powerful the effect is. One example they talked about was the Wizard skill Magic Missile. Unaltered, it's just what it sounds like — launching an arcane projectile at a monster. With a rank 1 Indigo rune, the skill shoots an extra missile. With a rank 7 Indigo rune, it shoots seven extra missiles. I'll be blunt: Skill Runes are pretty awesome.

Classes:

The first class I tried out was the Witch Doctor. It's a caster class with voodoo- and necromancer-style magic. My main ranged attack was Poison Dart, which did some damage over time to monsters I hit. Adding a rune, it changed to a fire dart, which did more up-front damage at the expense of the DoT. I also had a skill that summoned pets to help me fight -- up to three Zombie Dogs at one time. They were actually powerful enough that I eventually let them die so I would have more to do. Runes affected them differently — one rune gave them a chance to drop a health orb when they died. Others modified how they did damage. The AI was pretty smart about having them attack the groups I wanted them to, and not go charging off on their own.

The skill I chose when I hit level 10 was Firebats. It functions similarly to the Inferno spell in Diablo 2, only instead of projecting a cone of flame in front of me, it projected a cone of flaming bats. The first Skill Rune I looked at extended the spell's range, trading off damage to do so. That was a bit underwhelming, since I already had ranged attacks, so I went with a different rune that turned the cone into a whirlwind of flaming bats that surrounded me. Another rune added a life-drain effect. It was tempting, but the whirlwind looked too cool to pass up. Finally, the skill that sold me on the Skill Rune system was Zombie Charger, a spell that summoned a zombie, who would shamble a few steps forward and then spray poison in the immediate vicinity. It was a solid, short-range attack. Fortunately, I lucked into a rune that modified the spell to summon a group of zombie bears that charged forward and trampled whatever was in their path. The buddy I was playing with happened to get a rune at the same time that made his Wizard's basic lightning spell change into a massive, conical spray of electricity, and we couldn't help but laugh as we used our new-found power to demolish groups of monsters.

The next class I tried was the recently revealed Demon Hunter. The class mixes ranges weapons with gadgets and dark magic for its offensive power. It bears similarities to both the Amazon and the Assassin from Diablo 2, but feels distinctly different to play. My main nuke, when I started out, was called Entangling Shot. It would do some damage and slow the monsters it hit, and then chain to other nearby monsters. Using Entangling Shot, it was quite easy to control entire groups of monsters. This was supplemented by a skill called Bola Shot, which would send a glowing bola out to wrap itself around the neck of a monster, exploding a few seconds later. It supplemented the slow effect of Entangling Shot nicely; by alternating between the two skills, I could drop big damage while keeping anything from reaching me. The Demon Hunter also had Vault, a movement skill that makes you leap forward through the shadows. It's a good way to get range — perhaps too good.

When I reached level 10, there were some interesting choices for new skills — a Fan of Knives provided area-of-effect damage in a circle around the Demon Hunter; Molten Arrow sends a blast of fire through monsters; Multi-Shot sends a conical rain of arrows that looks more like something out of 300 than the equivalent Amazon skill in Diablo 2. But I ended up choosing Grenades. The Demon Hunter tosses three grenades at the feet of her target, and they explode for huge damage. The cool thing about this skill is that you can bounce the grenades off walls, so you can blow up things around corners or in the back of a group that's rushing you. Unfortunately, I didn't get to try any runes with these skills. Overall, the Demon Hunter felt a lot more dynamic and... percussive than an Amazon.

I got a chance to tinker around with the Barbarian as well. This class uses a different resource system — fury is generated by certain attacks, and is then spent on other (generally more powerful) attacks. It certainly played differently than the range classes. Wading into groups and Cleaving away was standard operating procedure. I enjoyed this class less than the others, mainly due to the fact that fury generation seemed fairly slow, and my skills weren't that focused on damage. One ability, Revenge, was reactive, only becoming available occasionally during a pitched battle. At level 10, I picked up a skill that made him leap into a group of enemies, dealing damage when he landed. The trouble was that I didn't feel like I really had a go-to attack. I'd guess that this would be solved by different skill selection, but obviously the demo build had its limits.

Story, Lore, Art:

The story is handled in two ways: Lore tomes and quests. The tomes are actual loot objects that drop at certain places in the zone. When you pick them up, a voice-over starts that explains a bit about whatever is going on. It comes with a handy little UI box that lets you pause, play, or cancel the recording. The quests we saw were mostly linear. As mentioned earlier, the goal during the fire dungeon was to simply fight our way through, killing a particular boss on the way. Once we got out, we stepped outside into a new zone, and there was a quest available immediately to help the quest-giver track somebody down and take him out. Successfully doing so turned the quest-giver into a vendor for magical weapons.

This outdoor area was short, but led to another dungeon, this time an eerie-looking jail-tomb combination. Another new quest sent us searching through many small cells in an effort to free the souls of the innocently imprisoned. It was a fairly big dungeon, but the quest objectives were easy to find — when you got close to them, there was a glowing circle on the ground that made them easy to see. Once done with that, to escape the prison you needed a key that dropped from the zone's boss. A helpful marker on the map pointed out where he was — the convergence of four high walkways, with deep pits below. As we reached the center, undead began swarming up the sides of the walkways out of the darkness below, surrounding and trapping us in place for when the boss popped out and started attacking. After defeating him and reaching the end of the zone, we got to see the end of the quest — a brief, brutal coda to the story we'd seen so far.

A brief word about the art. Diablo 3 is a visually dense game. There are a lot of things competing for your attention. Player skills get a bit of a priority, since that's what provides a feeling of interaction with the world, but there's always something cool to look at — monsters' spells, death animations, destructible objects that break apart violently, traps in the dungeon, and even just the scenery around you. The outdoor level we saw reminded me briefly of the art controversy that happened when Blizzard first showed off some of its level design. It's a cloudy, rainy environment, not terribly dark, but the colors are muted. When you first see it, it's less visually stimulating than the fiery dungeon you came out of, but soon you'll notice the rain, the billowing mist, the occasional lightning flash that makes colors suddenly pop out at you, and it just works.

PvP Battle Arenas:

I also got a chance to try out the new PvP arenas. I started off with doing some 2v2 as a Witch Doctor. The arena was roughly square-shaped, and small — perhaps a bit over two screen-widths wide. There are pillars placed around the map in ways that World of Warcraft PvPers will be familiar with. You can use them to break line-of-sight and gain a brief respite from a Wizard's Death-Star-inspired laser, or other attacks. Health orbs are sprinkled around the map, spawning periodically to let you regain some of your HP. As a Witch Doctor, I could send my Zombie Dogs off to harass my opponents, detonating them remotely to cause more substantial damage, supplementing them with firebombs and a damage-over-time spell.

The teamwork aspect of the fight made itself obvious immediately; at first I didn't pay attention to what my partner was doing, not recognizing when he was running away, and our two opponents turned and destroyed me. Once we started attacking and retreating in unison, letting my Zombie Dogs and his Hydras occupy key spots on the battlefield, we were able to keep the opposing Barbarian off of us long enough to deal with the other team individually.

Later, I did some 1v1 — a Wizard mirror match, which was a ton of fun. In addition to the aforementioned laser and Hydra spell, Wizards had Teleport (which is on a cooldown), Meteor, a damage absorption shield, and Slow Time, which drops a giant bubble around the Wizard, slowing any projectiles or enemies that are inside. With just these tools, we had some pretty complex, strategic fights for a couple of beginners. Dropping Hydras at strategic positions could cover a retreat or apply some damage on an opponent who ducked behind a pillar. Getting up close and using Slow Time gave an opportunity to drop a Meteor, which took several seconds to land but did massive damage. Even better, I'd pretend to retreat, and when he teleported to keep up with me, a Slow Time field or a Meteor would be there waiting for him. Out in the open, we traded laser barrages, but those never lasted long. The damage shield was on a cooldown, but combined with the health orbs it led to some surprisingly long matches that swung back and forth as we each grabbed temporary advantage. It was a lot of fun.

Misc. Tidbits:

A few neat but minor things caught my attention as I was playing through the game. We didn't get to see the crafting system, but we did have the ability to essentially disenchant items on the fly, which provide crafting materials. You do this by taking up to six items at a time from your inventory and dropping them in your cube, which breaks them apart. The UI is polished — there's not a lot of clicking involved — so it's a nice way to keep free space without ducking back to town every few minutes. The Talisman system is also convenient in that regard; it takes stat runes out of the inventory and puts them in their own storage space. Being able to see monster health bars is another quality-of-life change, as is the ability to resurrect your fallen teammates if you can get to them quickly enough (only works in PvE). The demo wasn't very difficult, but we didn't get to choose the difficulty setting, and I presume Blizzard didn't want people to spend their brief window of time making corpse runs.

Despite the new features and the major changes from a year ago, Diablo 3 really feels like a game, now. It seems like Blizzard has settled on most of the major decisions and is just ironing out the wrinkles while building the actual game content. Some systems, like Traits, still need some work, and it was hard to care about the items that dropped for a character we only got to play briefly. But I saw a lot of Blizzcon attendees finish their 15-minute play period and immediately get back in the 30-minute line. The PvP was entertaining, and hopefully Battle.net can provide good match-making while allowing small groups of friends to log on and battle each other whenever they feel like it. I usually try not to waste energy looking forward to a game that's still a ways off, but Blizzard's making it difficult.

216 comments

  1. Obligatory ctrl+alt+del by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  2. Who Cares! Where is hands on GLEEablo by Rivalz · · Score: 1

    I'm just saying... diablo 3 I've been waiting for 10 years for.. But GLEEablo i've only been waiting for a week or so.

    1. Re:Who Cares! Where is hands on GLEEablo by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      I for one like playing the Cute Brunette class.

      My range attacks are wicked cool.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  3. Dear Blizzard by Dunbal · · Score: 0, Troll

    Despite your ad campaign on slashdot over the past few days, I am still not going to buy it. I don't care if there's a new "news article" about Diablo 3 every single day, you are wasting your time.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:Dear Blizzard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      And somehow all screen shots look the same. How many bridges over a chasm do you need for your scenario? This sadly reminds me to an earlier flop (Hellgate London) which started to bore me after half an hour.

    2. Re:Dear Blizzard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NEWS FLASH! The only one wasting time here is you as you bitch about Blizzard and Diablo 3. Blizzcon just went down. So having a few stories about Starcraft and Blizzard and Diablo 3 is not in the least bit surprising and does not constitute an "ad campaign" regardless of what you think.

      P.S. I will be buying Diablo 3 the very first instant I am able to do so and I'm sure I'm not the only slashdotter who'll be doing that.

    3. Re:Dear Blizzard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There would be less if they actually allowed LAN play.

    4. Re:Dear Blizzard by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or allowed bnetd-style local servers.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    5. Re:Dear Blizzard by Surt · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's depressing. It was much more varied 8 years ago when I was last working on it.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    6. Re:Dear Blizzard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That just leaves a few million.

  4. This game will suck. by A.+B3ttik · · Score: 5, Funny

    Like Diablo 1 and 2, it will be nothing but a clickfest where the player clicks on random enemies until they die, occasionally picking a new spell to cast. And like Diablo 1 and 2, I will play the fuck out of it and be a hermit for 6 months after its release.

    1. Re:This game will suck. by Splab · · Score: 1

      I will probably find me a cheaper mouse for Diablo 3 than my G9 - for the exact same reasons :)

    2. Re:This game will suck. by entotre · · Score: 1

      Will it be possible to make macros/helper-programs/addons/mods as it is for WoW? If so, that might alleviate some clicking

    3. Re:This game will suck. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that in Diablo 2 you could simply hold down your mouse button, and I am sure the same mouse protection feature will be available on Diablo 3.

    4. Re:This game will suck. by malkien · · Score: 1

      I hate you.
      you described exactly how I feel about Blizzard games.
      they just suck, but it's deliciously sweet sucking, and I need it.
      I think heroin addiction must feel something like this.

    5. Re:This game will suck. by TubeHater · · Score: 1

      I 2nd this!

      --
      Check out my website for sick and funny youtube video reviews at TubeHater.com
  5. Meh, by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

    How's it compare to Dungeon Crawl? Or good 'ol vanilla Nethack?

    1. Re:Meh, by nomadic · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think the graphics are better than Nethack's.

    2. Re:Meh, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You musn't have seen the latest mod that adds blinking text then.

  6. PvP emphasis by stewbacca · · Score: 1

    Why the emphasis on PvP??

    I was interested in this game for the single player campaigns. I'll probably still play it, but I get the feeling that the single player campaign will suffer at the hands of PvP development resources being used instead.

    1. Re:PvP emphasis by JorDan+Clock · · Score: 2, Funny

      Because a company the size of Blizzard couldn't possibly have enough resources to fully develop Multiplayer/PvP and Singleplayer at the same time.

    2. Re:PvP emphasis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no PvP emphasis, per se. They simply added a few pvp toys for the people who just like pvp, which is new to the Diablo universe. The team is not considering fleshing out or balancing pvp to the extent of the Starcraft or Warcraft universe. (To abridge from Blizzcon, "We're not making an e-sport out of this.")

      More likely it'll be balanced on group progression; I always felt single player got the short shift to make grouping more attractive in the harder difficulties.

    3. Re:PvP emphasis by Machtyn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's not his point, though. It seems that a lot of the moves that Blizzard is making with all of their games is the social, multiplayer aspect. They're probably trying to read the signs of the times - a combination of controlling the multiplayer gaming experience, adding a social experience similar to facebook, and attempting to keep a the feel of a LAN party without the LAN aspect.

      In my case, I may be in the minority. I have 4 friends I play WoW with, but mostly I just play WoW as a single player, rarely interacting with all the other dolts out there. I want to play Diablo 3 the same way - single player, occasionally in co-op mode with a friend or two. On the occasion I run into a group that is cool, I hang with them for the rest of the game time that night... never to interact with them again after that point, unless we get lucky and are randomly placed in a dungeon together.

      I used to be an excellent, competitive gamer. But that takes a lot of time to hone the skill. I still have the skill, I just lack the practice and don't care to compete or move up the ranks of some random board against thousands of people I don't really care about. Anti-social? Sure, why not ;^)

    4. Re:PvP emphasis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because we're sick and damn tired of getting PK'd!

      Give them somewhere to do that crap and they'll leave dungeon runners alone.

      captcha: theory

    5. Re:PvP emphasis by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I didn't say they didn't have "enough" resources. I said that single player will suffer at the hands of PvP development....software engineering tradeoff.

      To put it another way, if they used the slice of resources they are putting on PvP ALL on single player, the single player experience would be that much better. Companies don't replace people they put on side projects with new people. They just lose those resources, make due with what they have, and end up with two watered down projects instead of one solid project.

    6. Re:PvP emphasis by lostros · · Score: 1

      that isn't true though. For instance if you had gordon ramsay make you chicken while bobby flay made you vegetables, it would likely be very good. If you had them both make the chicken, they would probably butt heads, and you'd end up with something with flavors of both, but not enough of either one of them to really shine. probably still good, but not as good as giving one of them control over the entire thing.

    7. Re:PvP emphasis by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Have to agree with you. I find PvP deathly dull - maybe because I spent way too much time in the actual Army doing the real thing. Give me a solo story-based adventure in Diablo any day of the week.

      My son gets on my case for playing WoW without teams and not doing all the PvP but rather doing the story elements. If I wanted PvP, I'd ask for PvP - but Diablo II was one of my faves because it worked very well as a solo game and allowed you to interact with other players only when you wanted to.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    8. Re:PvP emphasis by ildon · · Score: 1

      "Sign of the times"? The only reason my friends and I even bought Diablo 2 was because it had multiplayer, and that was TEN years ago.

    9. Re:PvP emphasis by JorDan+Clock · · Score: 1

      Except they likely have two separate teams for multiplayer and singleplayer development. Throwing more people at one aspect doesn't necessarily mean it will be any better. And if they need more people, they can hire them. It's Blizzard we're talking about. They probably have the resumes of all the top people in any given game development field and it wouldn't take much effort to get them to come in for an interview.

    10. Re:PvP emphasis by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I guess none of you guys actually work in software development or have any idea how program management works.

      You don't just hire more people (well, you do in the long run, but not for the short term).

      And you DO steal devs from one team and put them on another. Companies are always trying to get more production out of the same number of employees. It sucks, but it's reality.

    11. Re:PvP emphasis by brkello · · Score: 1

      His point doesn't make any sense. SC2 just came out and it has one of the best single player experience I have ever encountered. It also has an incredible focus on competitive multi-player. Why would you assume that Diablo would get away from its roots? It will most likely be better, yet now have new/deep PvP content that will make it even more enjoyable. You can still be anti-social and you will still like it if SC2 is any gauge on what the company is doing.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    12. Re:PvP emphasis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      at the Q&A Jay Wilson answered a lot of the same PvP concerns you are having, because you're right, it would suck. Bottom line is that they will never tweak PvE stats for the benefit of PvP. In all probability, skills that are too powerful in PvP that are just awesome in PvE will get nerfed ONLY when you play PvP. I don't think you have the same capabilities as dueling as the 2nd (going hostile and dueling outside of town) so i would think you would have to join dedicated servers for dueling and they will tweak your stats when you enter.

      They did say that some skills are more PvP oriented, which kinda sucks because each class only has 7 skills. I dont know if this is 1 per class or just for certain classes, but we shall see. He also said that they never want diablo 3 to become an e-sport like with world of warcraft, so it seems that PvP was just a way to allow dueling while removing the "griefing" aspects that sucked-when-it-happened-to-you-but-awesome-to-do-to-others (join party, get tp, lay your tp, go hostile, take your tp back, kill everyone) that D2 had.

      I dont understand the logic behind this because like 20 min later he said they will never try and make dueling equal and finding the perfect builds to kill in PvP is part of the fun... so why would they nerf skills? Again, you are right, this is one of my major concerns. I HATE dueling. But at least no more cookie cutter builds!

    13. Re:PvP emphasis by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I'd say that Blizzard expects people to play the game on Battlenet. Take a look at Diablo II - all the later patches basically made it harder and harder to "solo" the hardest difficulty to encourage team play. However, the single player game got all the same changes so now it's difficult to complete the game in single player unless you choose one of the overpowered, unbalanced builds and spend lots of time grinding for the items you'll need (since you can't trade).

    14. Re:PvP emphasis by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      But will I be able to play in a LAN environment without having to connect to the Internet and Battle.net to just play with my friends across the way from me? The answer is NO, (not likely). If I do want to play online with some friends... do we have to go through with the cumbersome fiddling of Battle.net (though they will likely make it as easy as possible), as opposed to allowing me to set up my server local and hand out my IP address (or, better DynDNS name) to my specific friends? NO, (not likely).

  7. Worthy successor to Diablo 2?! by Markvs · · Score: 0, Troll

    Is memory failing me, or is this the same Diablo 2 which got drastically worse with every segment, as was bascially unplayable after the 3rd piece? I recall having to reload a fight after going down a flight of stairs about 50 times to just get a strike in. I also recall the graphics getting worse and worse...

    --
    46. The Hobo smiles, his eyes glaze over, and he burps. "Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland."
    1. Re:Worthy successor to Diablo 2?! by Fibe-Piper · · Score: 1

      Is memory failing me, or is this the same Diablo 2 which got drastically worse with every segment,...I also recall the graphics getting worse and worse...

      No the graphics got better and better. They went from 800/600 to 1024/768 with the expansion.

      As for the game itself; I found that it was the most enjoyable with the expansion, not just due to the graphics improvement, but the items and locales really improved drastically.

      The only thing I didn't feel added anything were the new character classes: Druid and Assassin? Riiiiiiiiiightttttt -> the Druid at least was a alternative to the necro which was nerfed at the time, but Assassin? Who the F needs to sneak up on Baal?

      --
      I went to battle M.C. Escher, but drew a blank.
    2. Re:Worthy successor to Diablo 2?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      How are you able to run the game at 1024/786, LOD enabled 800x600, I don't recall another update.

    3. Re:Worthy successor to Diablo 2?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      No the graphics got better and better. They went from 800/600 to 1024/768 with the expansion.

      Try 640x480 for Diablo 2 classic the real HD stuff was LOD only 800x600. How far we have come.

    4. Re:Worthy successor to Diablo 2?! by nu1x · · Score: 2, Insightful

      D2 went from 640x480 to 800x600 in Expansion.

      Also the GP is talking obviously about some other game, as there is no reload in D2. Each save exits game, and you can create new game, with random dungeon (same dungeon, repopulated random monsters in SP),

      --
      I have nothing to lose but my bindings.
    5. Re:Worthy successor to Diablo 2?! by KovaaK · · Score: 1

      Unrelated to what Fibe-Piper was talking about, but the community of modders has come up some handy mods/hacks such as D2MultiRes for higher resolution in Diablo 2. But my favorite mods are probably Median XL by Laz (total conversion with entirely new skills, uniques, sets, uber levels, challenges), and PlugY (infinite stash, stash shareable between characters, redistributable stat/skill points).

    6. Re:Worthy successor to Diablo 2?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure what you're talking about... maybe you're thinking of the original Diablo? (I haven't played more than 10 minutes of that game, so I don't know).
      But what you are describing sounds nothing like Diablo 2.
      I also don't know what you mean by 3rd piece...

    7. Re:Worthy successor to Diablo 2?! by Fibe-Piper · · Score: 1

      I stand corrected.

      In any case the original poster (OP?) has since been modded, perhaps unfairly as a troll. I completely disagree with him either way, but if you are right on all counts, he was off topic at best.

      --
      I went to battle M.C. Escher, but drew a blank.
    8. Re:Worthy successor to Diablo 2?! by Markvs · · Score: 1

      Nope! I solved the original Diablo at least twice. I only dimly recall, but the game had four stages, the last of which you were in a church-like thing. There was a guy that walked around and occasionally crossed and knelt as if in prayer. There was some kind of dungeon where you entered onto a double staircase with about 100 things that wanted to kill you. And if you activated them the game overloaded and laaaaaged.

      --
      46. The Hobo smiles, his eyes glaze over, and he burps. "Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland."
  8. Item pick up? by StealthPanda · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Every time there is a new Diablo 3 announcement, I scan through to see if they mention the item dropping/picking up system. Racing strangers to click the item the fastest was probably the worst thing about Diablo 2, and brought in lots of 3rd-party programs/cheats.

    1. Re:Item pick up? by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      Every player has his own drops in D3. No contest there.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    2. Re:Item pick up? by somaTh · · Score: 1

      I would expect them to implement something like WoW's drop system. Need/greed. Sadly, that only works for honest players. Personally, I like the Guild Wars system. Drops are auto-assigned and you can buy/sell if you feel the need. Of course, it's not as driven by items as WoW/Diablo.

      --
      Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
    3. Re:Item pick up? by Sheafification · · Score: 1

      I believe they have said that major bosses will do separate drops for each player. This was a while ago, and I can't seem to find the reference again, so it may have changed or I might be misremembering.

    4. Re:Item pick up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every player has their own loot. There's no competition.

  9. Not sure I'll buy it. by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It does seem to be shaping up well, but Blizzard's attitude towards gamers and their heavy-handed use (and, I'd say, abuse) of the legal system makes me really not want to support them. The DRM is absolutely horrible. I know some Blizz fanboys will come in here to burn me at the stake just for criticizing the DRM alone, but I am a brave, if not stupid, man.

    Compare Blizzard and Valve. Oh, sure, Steam is DRM in a sense too, but the system also adds value by Steam's nature. Blizzard treats players with contempt by removing true LAN play and bans people for using trainers on single player--and no, fanboys, trainers can do more than the game's own cheat system, and the whole achievement argument is bunk when you realize that Blizz's DRM is the reason online achievements is even tied to single player play in the fashion in it.

    Even compare how the two companies communicate to gamers. Companies like Valve understand the player base; companies like Blizzard/Activision do not, and they are not made up of gamers. Remember the RealID fiasco on the WoW forums?

    Buying Diablo III is just going to set a horrible precedent and tell the company that we'll still pay for all this bullshit.

    1. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by mark72005 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Not trying to troll here, but...

      If you paid for the game, why do you care about DRM?

    2. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As much as it pains me, I haven't bought Starcraft 2 for this exact reason.

    3. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by contra_mundi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not trying to troll here, but... If you paid for the game, why do you care about DRM?

      I take it you haven't bought a game with silly restrictions, like the three installs limit on Mass Effect 2.

      DRM only harms the customer, not the pirate. Ergo customers are the people who should care about it the most, don't you think?

    4. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by halivar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Blizzard changed RealID in response to player concerns. That example does not support your argument, at all. In fact, it shows a company that cares about having happy players. And it's working.

      As for their DRM, I rather like it. I can download my games to any computer I might be at, as opposed to EA and Sony's ridiculous one-computer, one-install DRM that kills the game's replayability.

    5. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by somaTh · · Score: 1

      If you're looking for an amusing Steam alternative, I'd recommend Torchlight, although multiplayer won't be available until the next game (which is due out in early 2011). I'm really interested to see how they implement it.

      Personally, I'll probably still buy Diablo III. I'd like to know where the story goes.

      --
      Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
    6. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Unless they've since removed the restriction, Playstaion Network downloads only have 5 activations as well.

      Even though you bought it, you may only download it 5 times.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    7. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by mark72005 · · Score: 1

      I don't buy a lot of games - I was honestly asking, not trolling (though I knew I would get modded troll :) )

    8. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by timster · · Score: 1

      BTW, I don't really understand the argument about single-player cheats. Ok, hacking the game lets you do more, but what's the interest or reason for that? Do players really find the single-player on Easy mode so hard that even the built-in cheats aren't enough?

      Because what it sounds like, is someone hacked the game and developed a cheating tool that works in both multi-player and single-player, and Blizzard banned some people who used the tool but only used it in single player. But why did they pay for the tool just to use it in single-player? I don't get why anybody would need or want to do that.

      Really I feel like a lot of this is revenge PR from the company that made the cheating programs; I suspect that the players who were banned fully intended to cheat at multi-player eventually.

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    9. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by nschubach · · Score: 1

      That's a major thing for me with Torchlight. I bought it and put time into building up my character, but it just feels like a waste without being able to play with a friend. The story isn't all that compelling and sharing screen shots of items we found is useless.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    10. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Really I feel like a lot of this is revenge PR from the company that made the cheating programs; I suspect that the players who were banned fully intended to cheat at multi-player eventually."

      Punish someone when they do something wrong. Not when you think they might eventually do something wrong.

    11. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by moeluv · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Why even bother gaming if you are going to use an automated "trainer"(read bot). How fucking lazy can you be to not even truly participate in your leisure activities.

    12. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by contra_mundi · · Score: 1

      Well, I hope my reply sufficiently explained why a customer might not like DRM.

    13. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      Blizzard treats players with contempt by removing true LAN play and bans people for using trainers on single player--and no, fanboys, trainers can do more than the game's own cheat system, and the whole achievement argument is bunk when you realize that Blizz's DRM is the reason online achievements is even tied to single player play in the fashion in it.

      The argument's not bunk, because it's pretty clear that a lot more of the people who bought Starcraft 2 care about people cheating to get achievements than care about not being able to run extra cheats in single player.

      It's not an argument that persuades you, and personally I couldn't care less if someone's cheating the achievements, but it's what their customers want.

      In other words, you think Blizzard is a shitty company for giving their customers what they actually want, instead of what you think they should want.

    14. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You're right, Blizzard is aweful with their DRM. But hey, so was Valve with Steam. They're both terrible. Just give me the game, don't connect the internet unless I play multiplayer. What's so difficult? And it's just not for ideological reasons. I am presently in Iraq and they have a large display of StarCraft 2 boxes. I thought, I am pretty busy already, so I shouldn't buy it. Then I thought, ohh, I'll buy it but just play a little. Then I check the box and it says "Internet Connection Required." I was like, WTF? I don't think Blizzard meant to tease me, it was probably the store's fault. But c'mon, if I don't have an internet connection let me play the stupid single player scenarios (free 4 buildings, kill all bad guys with one super unit, etc), and let me play against the computer. What is with people these days?

    15. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by mark72005 · · Score: 1

      I agree that the three installs thing is dumb.

      However not being a gamer, I don't understand why any form of DRM at all is a dealbreaker for many on /.

    16. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 0, Redundant

      The achievement system being linked to single player is part of the inherent design of Blizzard's online-based DRM.

    17. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 2, Informative

      Many people will do so particularly after completing the single player by themselves, for fun. Additionally, trainers are not bots.

    18. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by derfy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe xkcd can help.

      http://xkcd.com/488/

      Did that help explain things?

    19. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      PR from the company? Are you serious? I've never even played Starcraft 1!

      Why do you assume everyone paid for the tool?

      Some people use trainers just to mess around after completing the campaign. What, you seriously never used a GameShark during the console days...? Are you kids really that young?

    20. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because I paid for it. If I buy it I want to be able to install it when I want and play it how I want.

      DRM is no problem for pirates, they remove that crap.

    21. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Norsefire · · Score: 1

      If you want to use trainers put the game in offline mode (Play as Guest from the login screen). If you want to cheat by unlocking achievements on your Battle.net account in singleplayer-but-still-online mode you can rot in hell.

    22. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      This is why I have never and will never buy something from there. I had really considered getting the new Monkey Island for PS3, but if I can't get a disc, forget it.

    23. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 0

      Blizzard changed RealID out of player concerns out of concern of their own bottom line, as that particular action was the worst thing Blizzard has done yet. They were pretty much forced to back off because of the backlash.

      Blizzard's DRM is far more strict and RESTRICTIVE than Valve's/Steam's DRM.

    24. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by rubypossum · · Score: 1

      I'll probably buy a whole new gaming computer just to play this game. And I will probably only play the game once some nice cracker cracks it. Because I don't support gaming companies that support DRM.

      --
      I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. - Hunter S. Thompson
    25. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      You can download it as many times as you want, but you can only play it on 5 different machines. That's actually pretty damn permissive; I doubt more than a handful of people need more than five PS3s for gaming purposes. Compare that with the Wii, where if you get a new console, you have to send both in to Nintendo to get your games transferred over.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    26. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Real ID rage? You mean that time where they discussed implementing a feature, saw that players didn't like it, and announced they weren't going to implement it due to player feedback?

      Yeah, that was -REAL- disgusting by them. If you're an ignorant fucking retard, that is.

    27. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by timster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I get that, but I think my point is that the GP is going on about "Blizzard's attitude toward gamers" as if the cheaters are some sort of innocent victims. Nobody's speaking up for the players who want to play fair.

      Maybe "Blizzard's attitude toward gamers" is that they want the gamers who pay for the product to have a good experience. Such as, I don't notice the DRM except that I have to type my password. And it's great that I can play on any computer, and I don't need the DVD, etc.

      And maybe Blizzard doesn't want to fight cheaters one-at-a-time, searching through the server logs: "was he cheating in that multiplayer game? Did he have the cheat installed but not use it? Did the fact that he had the cheat available to rebuild his economy if needed affect his strategy so that he could win that game without it?" Why should someone playing fair have to lose to a cheater before they get banned, anyway?

      Cheating is the great scourge of Internet gameplay, and Blizzard has plenty of experience with that. Cheaters drive out paying customers. There's no reason to treat them lightly.

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    28. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by halivar · · Score: 1

      How? Both let you download to as many computers as you like, as many times as you like. On the spectrum of DRM solutions, Blizz and Valve occupy the same space, on the other side of SOE and EA.

    29. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "If you paid for the game, why do you care about DRM?"

      Well, you're probably not serious, but here I go. It's because, as a paying customer, I want some degree of control over the product that I bought. DRM limits what I can do with the game, sometimes not allowing me to play it at all. Pirates? They remove the DRM within a few days, making it completely pointless in that regard.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    30. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "As for their DRM, I rather like it. I can download my games to any computer I might be at, as opposed to EA and Sony's ridiculous one-computer, one-install DRM that kills the game's replayability."

      So in other words, it's good because it's better than some of the other worthless, harmful DRM schemes out there? It could be worse, so you should just accept your fate? No, sorry. Any DRM is bad DRM.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    31. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "Ok, hacking the game lets you do more, but what's the interest or reason for that?"

      Perhaps they have fun hacking the game? This is in single player, so there's no reason to ban them. Why do you like the game? Is it just fun to you? It's the same for people who like to cheat in games. It can, at times, be fun.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    32. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 0, Troll

      "And maybe Blizzard doesn't want to fight cheaters one-at-a-time, searching through the server logs"

      Right, so ban innocent players who haven't even hurt others from play altogether simply because they could, potentially, cheat in multiplayer.

      "Why should someone playing fair have to lose to a cheater before they get banned, anyway?"

      Might as well range ban everyone, then.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    33. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "In other words, you think Blizzard is a shitty company for giving their customers what they actually want"

      They had a majority vote that included all of their paying customers, or something? If not, then I don't see what you're basing this information off of. Did you survey every single one of their customers and use a lie detector or something?

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    34. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by halivar · · Score: 1

      Harmful? Your only limitation is running two copies at the same time (for WOW and SC only, no such limitation on legacy games), so calling it "harmful" is patently ridiculous, histrionic nonsense.

    35. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      It was their choice to implement those useless offline achievements. In reality, they are nothing, and anyone who cares about them is a lost cause.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    36. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      Lurk any set of Starcraft 2 forums for a week (Blizzard's or otherwise) and I don't think you could dispute that's the prevailing opinion. Or really, the community for just about any game ever made in which cheating is possible.

      I'll readily concede that my claim is not scientifically backed by rigorous double-blind research, but it's nonetheless true.

    37. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by vadim_t · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a show of deep disrespect for the customer. When I think somebody is being an asshole, I don't give them money.

      There are plenty practical concerns as well.

      Install restrictions - What constitutes a computer for me is very fluid, with my current one getting gradually upgraded, with some old pieces being used to make new computers, and so on. As a bare minimum I'd want to play on my desktop and my laptop, that's already 2 installs. The desktop will at some point be upgraded, which I'm sure will be counted as a different computer, that's 3 installs. After that I have to arbitrarily restrict myself from making changes. Screw that, I'm not paying for being limited in what I can do with my own stuff.

      Internet connection -- it goes down, there are trains and airplanes where it's not available, and other countries where it may exist but I may not be able to get access to it. I happen to like to travel ocassionally. If it's required, no deal.

      The future - I can still play Diablo 1. Will I be able to play Diablo 3 in 2024? If not, I'm not paying, because if I can arbitrarily lose the ability to run it, it's not really a purchase.

      The bugs - Quite a lot of DRM went wrong at some point, forcing people to deal with customer supports, download updates. Sometimes DRM refuses to work with some software, crashes the game, incorrectly decides I've done something wrong, or something else of the sort, all in exchange for no benefit to myself. When I pay for something it's supposed to give me some advantage, not problems.

      The "relationship" - DRM inevitably requires maintaining a "relationship" with the company. The game contacting their servers every time I try to run it, me calling their customer support when it won't activate, etc. I absolutely hate such dependency. If I have to care if the company is still in business, I won't buy it. Only allowable exception would be things like MMOs where there's no such thing as a single player mode, but I don't play those anyway.

    38. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by lithis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I purchased Diablo II. The DRM wouldn't let the game run without the CD-ROM in the drive, even though I did a full install so all the files were on my hard drive. The game was intentionally crippled, making it less convenient to play. (What if I had another CD-ROM in my drive? What if I wanted to listen to an audio CD?) I installed a no-CD crack.

      A couple years later I reinstalled it. It wouldn't play; it kept failing because the DRM said the disc was not in the drive. It was. I had to crack my purchased copy to play it.

    39. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can pretty much fuck themselves. Cheating in multiplayer is dirty and Blizzard has a legitimate stance in trying to discourage it, but banning people from the game for cheating in fucking single player? That's sort of like those asshole ex-smokers that won't stop until everybody within a thousand models has stopped smoking.

      Or those fucking wankers that don't find not playing a game enough, but they want to prevent other people from doing so as well.

    40. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      Based on the way most console games and some PC games made in the last 5 years have gone, an awful lot of people care about and want achievements.

      At this point in the evolution of games, not having achievements in a game would probably be received about as well as not having Internet play in a multiplayer game.

      You may not care about them, but it's what the market appears to want.

    41. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by RCourtney · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, if history is any indication, Blizzard really doesn't care about its players.

      A brief history of Diablo 2...

      When everyone realized they could run Pindle many many times per minute, who was easy to get to (3 clicks) and dropped ALL the best items in the game (even if infrequently) Blizzard instituted waiting lines for new games to slow this down. They didn't change where Pindle was located or that he dropped the best items because it wasn't about the players, it was about their own resources being over utilized. It didn't stop the botters since they just added more keys and clients - a bot waiting doesn't get annoyed like a player waiting does.

      Well, players got annoyed having to sit there and watch a number count down showing how many people were ahead of them to create a game while the botters kept getting rich. Blizzard's answer was to implement Realm Down - a system by which you can join X amount of games in Y minutes and if you join more than X games in Y minutes you were temporarily banned for anywhere from a few minutes to a few days. Again, this did not address the actual problems since the botters just set their timing variables to be X games in Y+1 minutes and they were never affected by Realm Down. Legitimate players, on the other hand, got screwed just by joining buy games or transferring items from one character to another because, unlike a bot, a human player cannot calculate their games per hour to an accurate enough degree to avoid realm down.

      And I don't need to mention duping, which is still prevalent to this day in Diablo 2. Blizzard's answer to this was to implement a delete-dupe-on-joining-a-game method that ensured the people who actually created the dupes NEVER lost their stuff but any NORMAL LEGITIMATE PLAYER who happened to spend their hard earned loot on a duped rune/item (50/50 chance, really) had it disappear on them at some point when they joined a game. Again, cheaters not affected at all while legitimate players got screwed.

      Too many SoJ's got duped? Blizzard implemented the World Event (aka Diablo Clone) which dropped a super charm when ~100 SoJs were sold to the merchant. Who benefited from this? Not the legit players since they didn't have caches of duped SoJs to drop at the merchant to make DClone spawn. But the botters and dupers, they got rich spawning dclone! Then the legit players worked together and started collectivly using SoJs to spawn DClone... well, the dupers had a field day and just kept duping SoJs to sell to the legit players now, which is what the World Event was suppose to stop?

      I have been both a legitimate player and a botter, so I can speak from both sides of the equation. Blizzard never really cared about either legit players or botters - it was all about what it cost them after you've already paid for the game. That makes lots of sense from an economical stance, but it was one horrible decision after another from a PR and attitude perspective.

      I cannot, however, speak to how they have been regarding WoW. After my experience with them in Diablo 2 I could never fathom paying them monthly for anything..

    42. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "Lurk any set of Starcraft 2 forums for a week (Blizzard's or otherwise) and I don't think you could dispute that's the prevailing opinion."

      All of their customers post on the forums? Or are they just the loudest?

      "I'll readily concede that my claim is not scientifically backed by rigorous double-blind research"

      You can't conclude that it is true for sure, then.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    43. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "Your only limitation is running two copies at the same time "

      Yes, that is a limitation. Any DRM is bad DRM. Besides that, I heard that it has to verify itself online once every thirty days, leaving people without an internet connection helpless. I also heard that you can only have a single Battle.net account. Are either of those true?

      "so calling it "harmful" is patently ridiculous, histrionic nonsense."

      It's harmful because it's pointless.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    44. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "an awful lot of people care about and want achievements."

      However, do an awful lot of people care about another persons offline achievements so much so that they would want them banned if they cheated to get them?

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    45. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by halivar · · Score: 1

      "Any DRM is bad DRM."

      I disagree.

      "Besides that, I heard that..."

      No, you verify yourself online every time you load up the game (unless you sign in as a guest, which I always do because Comcast sucks in my area).

      "I also heard that you can only have a single Battle.net account."

      No, I have two Battle.net accounts. Blizzard has specifically said that you can have multiple accounts, and at BlizzCon, Metzen even mentioned that having multiple accounts was an option around the 10-character limit on WOW realms.

      "It's harmful because it's pointless."

      I disagree.

    46. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by mark72005 · · Score: 1

      the DRM wouldn't affect pirates who crack the software, but it would affect the crowd who wants to copy the game freely and distribute it to everyone they know. The average user doesn't know how and wouldn't do this, right?

      Thank you for taking it seriously... I was asking a question because I don't know the answer, not for any other reason...

    47. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's sort of like those asshole ex-smokers that won't stop until everybody within a thousand models has stopped smoking.

      Yeah. Cylons can get real bitchy when they quit smoking.

    48. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      I can't conclude for sure that I'm not really just a brain in a jar hooked up to machines that make me perceive what I think to be the world, either, but in much the same vein it's good enough to make sense to act as though it were true.

      It's possible that most gamers (here defined as people who actually buy the games) are secretly zealous about software freedom rather than the ideal that players who cheat to gain an edge on them should be punished, but since market data consistently indicates the latter and not the former, a rational person will make decisions as though that were true.

      If the opposite were true, we'd have more commercial games for Linux and less Punkbusters and Wardens. That's not the case.

    49. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by afidel · · Score: 1

      Trainers were great for testing a new weird build or trying out things after a new patch came out. I played hardcore so risking death after a patch changed something wasn't always the most appealing option. Oh, and trainers just gave you stuff and set your level in single player, that's very different from a bot.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    50. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by imnotanumber · · Score: 1

      the DRM wouldn't affect pirates who crack the software, but it would affect the crowd who wants to copy the game freely and distribute it to everyone they know. The average user doesn't know how and wouldn't do this, right?

      "the crowd who wants to copy the game freely and distribute it to everyone they know" will download the crack and proceed with their plan of distributing it, cracked, to everyone they know. Again, the main inconvenience is to those who paid for the game. Strange, isn't it?

    51. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by melikamp · · Score: 1

      Very nice post. And you didn't even mention the insta-PK clasterfuck and all the wrong ways they tried to fix it, while the actual solution that all the co-op legit players were asking for (disabling non-consensual PvP) could have been implemented in a few dozen lines.

    52. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by FrostDust · · Score: 1

      In case you haven't kept up with the news, there was a patch a while ago that allowed you to run D2/LoD with no CD in the drive, as long as you copied the some files from the disc to your hard drive.

    53. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      Did you survey every single one of their customers and use a lie detector or something?

      Yes every one of their paying customers who continue to pay are finding likable value out of the games Blizzard produces.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    54. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Update to patch 1.12 or 1.13. Blizzard removed the CD requirement in 1.12, a good couple of years ago.

    55. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Nursie · · Score: 1

      "the DRM wouldn't affect pirates who crack the software, but it would affect the crowd who wants to copy the game freely and distribute it to everyone they know. The average user doesn't know how and wouldn't do this, right?"

      The average user knows about P2P, and can download a cracked version from there. It delays things by a few days usually. The average user then participates in a bittorrent swarm, uploading bits and pieces to others that need it. And then they can burn copies for their friends.

      DRM annoys the hell out of me, and it's not 'cos I want to rip stuff off. That's easy.

    56. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Nursie · · Score: 1

      "Because what it sounds like, is someone hacked the game and developed a cheating tool that works in both multi-player and single-player, and Blizzard banned some people who used the tool but only used it in single player."

      No. Blizzard are pursuing legal action against folks who made a tool to poke around in the memory on their own computer, and distributed this tool.

      Ban them from your network all you like. Legal action on that is just wrong.

    57. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you kidding? This is slashdot. If it's a Blizzard-related story, 5% of the posts will be STILL complaining about bnetd getting shut down 7 years ago, 70% will be about SC2 not having LAN (even if the story is about WoW or Diablo or Lost Vikings) and the rest might actually be vaguely on topic if you're lucky.

    58. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      About this particular decision? Most of them probably don't even know about it or care enough to make a big deal out of it.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    59. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Uh, no. How many of Blizzard's customers (not just the ones on the forums, they have many more who aren't registered) support this decision? Why should people cheating in single player be banned?

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    60. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "I disagree."

      Why? Since when does slightly more control over your game as opposed to slightly less with other forms of DRM equal good? It's better, sure, but far from good.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    61. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Ailure · · Score: 1

      I nearly bought Starcraft 2. I saw all kind of fun things done with it, mods etc, and gameplay videos and all that. I was avoiding it for the same reasons as you, but at some point I wondered if I could try to oversee those things.

      Then I found out Starcraft have a region restriction in it's multiplayer. As a European with a lot of American friends... it's a no buy for me.

    62. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by halivar · · Score: 1

      DRM is neutral. How it is used is what matters. In this case, Blizzard uses their DRM to let you download the game to any computer, as many times as you like, in perpetuity. In my book, that is good use of DRM.

    63. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "In this case, Blizzard uses their DRM to let you download the game to any computer, as many times as you like"

      Sorry, but what? Do you mean download as in download the game from the internet, or do you mean install? If you mean install, then I can do that with... pretty much all of my games that have no DRM present in them.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    64. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by halivar · · Score: 1

      I mean both. You can download and install any Blizzard game you have ever purchased from Battle.net. I went through and registered all my old keys so I can download the games to all my PC's.

    65. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Miaomiao · · Score: 1

      If they set up Diablo 3 the same way as StarCraft 2...

      Install restrictions -- Install on as many computers as you like, just have your account handy. Each install gets three "guest" accounts on the machine, which have no access to online play, and don't record achievements.

      Internet connection -- there's a one time authentication, don't have internet connection on the computer you're installing on? There's a offline activation code available from the website. This supposedly has to be re-entered once a year if you don't connect online.

      The future -- It's always playable in offline mode, it doesn't need battle.net to run, just for the online aspects. And given you can still actually buy Diablo I in stores, Blizzard keeps supporting most of its games.

      The bugs -- They don't use sony style drm. Blizzards philosophy is to control the online space, and not worry about normal piracy. They see the future in online multiplayer and social gaming, thus the removal of lan in sc2, which takes out the legal loophole in South Korea starcraft I had.

    66. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by brkello · · Score: 1

      Oh yes, you are soooo brave. Complaining about DRM and LAN on here almost always gets modded up. You truly have incredible guts to risk being modded insightful.
       
      Blizzard understands its customers a lot more than you think. They wanted to create a competitive eSport wiht SC2. Cheating and hacking destroys that. That is why they ban people who cheat. I had no problem having a LAN party with 8. It's 2010, not 1990.
       
      But really, don't buy it...or do buy it. It really doesn't matter because it will sell anyways because Blizzard makes great games. Slashdot focuses on one issue (that has never interfered with my ability to enjoy the game) and misses the big picture. They make really really good games.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    67. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by brkello · · Score: 1

      Can you play all the games you could on the PC in the 90s? No, you actually can't unless you are still running Windows 95. Go pull out those discs and see if they run. So what do you do if you want to play them? You download some emulator and the binary for the game and you plat it. But nice try. It will be the same way for Diablo 3 in 15 years.
       
      You can play Blizzard games in offline mode, so not an issue here.
       
      There isn't an install restriction either. Hell, once you register it online you can download it anywhere on to any computer. Complain away, but it isn't Blizzard.
       
      Any restriction you come up with will be patched out either by the developers or hackers. So your "What if....what if...what if...." is just that. You make a mountain out of a molehill. Truly, you are like a Tea Partier. What if Obama isn't really a US citizen and a secret Muslim? Ugh...ok...

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    68. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      Can you play all the games you could on the PC in the 90s? No, you actually can't unless you are still running Windows 95. Go pull out those discs and see if they run. So what do you do if you want to play them? You download some emulator and the binary for the game and you plat it. But nice try. It will be the same way for Diablo 3 in 15 years.

      Oh yes I can. I recently played a game from 1993, both on my desktop and on my cell phone.

      You can play Blizzard games in offline mode, so not an issue here.

      Is it possible to install with only the CD and start playing without ever going online at any time or contacting Blizzard?

      There isn't an install restriction either. Hell, once you register it online you can download it anywhere on to any computer. Complain away, but it isn't Blizzard.

      Oh, there it is. "Once you register it online". No money for you.

      Any restriction you come up with will be patched out either by the developers or hackers. So your "What if....what if...what if...." is just that. You make a mountain out of a molehill.

      That misses the point. I repeat: I do not pay for dealing with such bullshit.

      It's actually entirely the reverse: looking for a hacked copy is time consuming, and entirely goes against what paying for things is supposed to be like. Looking for hacked copies is what kids that don't have even half the amount required to buy it, and no way of earning more do. Back when I was 12, I obviously had no regular income. Buying a single game would have required me to save every single cent of what my parents gave me, for a month or more. So I pirated, because I did have plenty free time to copy disks, and even copy by hand manuals that were made to be hard to photocopy.

      Now that I grew up, the price of a game is easy to afford. My time, on the other hand is much scarcer. Dealing with DRM bullshit easily spoils a weekend, and is the last thing on my mind when I get home. So no, I absolutely will not put up with it. So I'll spend my money on somebody who appreciates their customers more, which usually end up being indie developers who tend to make something more interesting than the FPS of the month, and are in more need of my money as well.

    69. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      Install restrictions -- Install on as many computers as you like, just have your account handy. Each install gets three "guest" accounts on the machine, which have no access to online play, and don't record achievements.

      Internet connection -- there's a one time authentication, don't have internet connection on the computer you're installing on? There's a offline activation code available from the website. This supposedly has to be re-entered once a year if you don't connect online.

      No deal. Activation is completely out of the question. Existence of Blizzard must be completely optional for anything other than online play.

      The future -- It's always playable in offline mode, it doesn't need battle.net to run, just for the online aspects. And given you can still actually buy Diablo I in stores, Blizzard keeps supporting most of its games.

      You just mentioned activation, though, and "has to be re-entered once a year"

      The bugs -- They don't use sony style drm. Blizzards philosophy is to control the online space, and not worry about normal piracy. They see the future in online multiplayer and social gaming, thus the removal of lan in sc2, which takes out the legal loophole in South Korea starcraft I had.

      And thus my much decreased interest the moment I heard about the lack of LAN play, even before I started pondering if there was any DRM or not.

    70. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by toddestan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Before the expansion pack and Pindle, there was Mephisto, who was a common boss to run for loot. Now, he was a bit more difficult to get to compared to Pindle because you had to run through a level that was randomly generated to get to him. Now, Diablo II has a design flaw where the full random map was sent to the client when a player entered a level, and the client would reveal the map to the player as the player explored it. Naturally, some one created was a program called Maphack that would reveal this map to the player. Blizzard never addressed this flaw - perhaps because it would require big changes to the game engine, but whatever. Obviously cheaters using Maphack would have an advantage running this boss, but there was pattern to the way the maps were generated, and once you learned this pattern (basically, go clockwise) a legit player could run Mephisto nearly as fast as a cheating player. Anyway, Blizzard noticed that people liked to run Mephisto, so their response was to drastically increase the size of the random level to get to Mephisto. This didn't affect the cheating player very much because they had Maphack so they knew where to go, but it really hurt the legit player because they could not do item runs nearly as fast as they could before.

      Blizzard's whole way of dealing with the duped SOJ problem was rather poor if you ask me. SOJs were always duped en mass, but in the original game a legit player could easily get SOJs with some grinding as about 1 million gold gambling on rings would net you an SOJ. And if your goal was to gather gold you could make a few million in an evening. However, with every patch Blizzard kept on making SOJs harder and harder to get (the chances of gambling them went to something like one-in-a-million, and the random drop rate is damn near zero) while adding all kinds of powerful new ways of using SOJs in recipes, etc. to get rid of all the SOJs floating around the economy. All this did of course was make it nearly impossible for legit players to get SOJs and use the new recipes, while making the cheater's ill-gotten SOJs even more valuable. The proper response, if you ask me, would have been making SOJs easy to get that everyone would be able to get their hands on as many as they wanted, therefore making the economical value of them nearly worthless. Oh, and fixing the dupe hacks and start banning the cheaters that use them.

    71. Re:Not sure I'll buy it. by Trubadidudei · · Score: 1

      Just so you know here's the general outline of WoWs history with cheating, botting, and such:

      Hacks, cheating and such: Basically a guaranteed ban if you use them more then two or three times. The detection system for any forms of cheat is extremely strong and the times you can actually use cheats for anything usefull are extremely rare (and even more rarely worth the inevitable ban). This part was quite strong from the very beginning and really hasn't changed that much.

      Duping: There have been mythical tales floating around from time to time about mysterious duping methods, however I've never found anything that has actually worked, or to be confirmed to have been working at a certain point. For all I know, there's never been a single purposefull sucessful dupe anywhere in WoW, ever.

      Botting: Botting was to some degree prevalent early in WoWs history. However, botting has always been dangerous due to extremely agressive stance the playerbase has towards it. Although botting is somewhat hard to detect by an automated mechanism of some sort, it is extremely easy to spot a player using bots from a player perspective, and when you spot some character botting the shit out of your quest mobs, all you have to do is report him to a gm, grab your opposing faction character and have some fun with his scripts while you wait for his imminent ban. Also, due to how the loot aquisition system in WoW works (Bind on pickup etc..), its extremely difficult to use botting for something that would net you significant amount of cash, unlike in D2.
      Also, blizzard sucessfully sued the maker of a popular bot program, and have been quite good at weeding out botters even without players reporting them. Before i quit a while ago, i hadn't seen a botter in several months.

      Due to the online nature of the game, the inability to trade any decent high level items (with certain exceptions), the price of each account (and thus the effectivity of bans), and the complexity of the encounters that drop the good stuff, any form of cheating in WoW has always been a non issue. There have been "exploits" (the exploitation of bugs or flawed game mechanics) that have from time to time inspired controversy in the community, but those almost always used for selfish purposes that do not affect the playerbase of your server in any way. Relative to the economy destroying disasters in D2, WoW has been a game almost free of any form of cheating, with the occasional exploits more often being fun then harmfull.

      Now, D2 was full of problems related to cheating because it was made at the dawn of online gaming, the dawn of MMOs. D2s online part was an early attempt at a fully integrated online component, and was perhaps a little too successfull for its own good. Alot of the problems to come were not foreseen in that period, and alot of the problems that arised could not be dealt with in any meaningfull manner without making massive and time consuming changes to a game that was probabbly not planned to last as long as it has anyways. The problems you complain about, the ones you call out as evidence of Blizzard not "caring" about their customers, were all failed attempts at solving an unsolveable problem, but at least there were attempts, however misguided they may have been. Also, for a company that cares so little about its customers, it's funny how they are still updating D2, a positively ancient game with no concievable further profits, even today (the last patch came out a few months ago). Hell, they are even mantaining the old battle net infrastructure to keep supporting D2, which at this point would cost more money then D2 could possibly still bring in.
      If anything, the history of blizzard with D2 shows a company that not only cares, but also rutinely hands out free hugs and kisses to its playerbase. Being unable to deal with a technical difficulty is a measure of incompetence, and not evidence of them not caring about their players. Luckily, as seen above, they seemed to learn from their mistakes and eliminate that technical difficulty from any future game of theirs. Funny how that works, innit.

  10. Original Diablo by Melted_Igloo · · Score: 1

    I hated Diablo 2, the story was too far fetched and over complicated compared to the original The first Diablo was perfect and Diablo games are only going to get more and more messed up as they keep tacking on more junk

    1. Re:Original Diablo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The original Diablo, with demons and skeletons and people shooting shit out of their hands, was more in line with reality?

    2. Re:Original Diablo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first Diablo was perfect

      Fondness grows with age, perhaps?

      In random order:

      o Mob AI was stupid. You could close the door (or block it), cast Firewall repeatedly just behind the closed door, and hear all the mobs die.

      o The only skill you needed was Fireball, for ANY of the three character classes. (Literally.)

      o The BNet version of the game was hacked beyond belief.

      o Diablo 1 resulted in far more RSI than Diablo 2 did.

      Diablo 2 was a far more interesting and complex game than Diablo 1. What I really didn't like about Diablo 2 was that it was still haven for min/maxers, even with the logarithmic return on some skill point investments. I'm hoping that Diablo 3 addresses this, at least to some extent - it'd be nice to have a game that requires you to choose both survival and damage talents to succeed easily. (I'm looking at you in particular here, World of Raidcraft, as being the most egregious offender.)

    3. Re:Original Diablo by viking099 · · Score: 1

      You didn't even need Fireball. Just hunt around until you get an Apocalypse staff and run around nuking people behind walls. Recharge the staff when you're done.

      I was able to kill everyone except for Diablo in D1 without dropping the walls, and even the big guy himself only took a few pops to drop.

      What I hated the most about D1 was the fact that if you died in multiplayer, some joker could rush over, gank all your gear, and you're left with nothing.

    4. Re:Original Diablo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      haha ^this

    5. Re:Original Diablo by afidel · · Score: 1

      Survival was critically important if you wanted to play hardcore, and for anyone that played more than a few months that was where the game really began. I played HC a LOT for a couple years and only had one 99 Guardian and a few 95+ Guardians, all were built with survivability in mind and had gear with lots of resists and absorb because that's the only way you could survive that many encounters.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  11. This is not Diablo, this is B.Netablo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    No LAN, no buy.

    Fuck you, Blizzard.

    1. Re:This is not Diablo, this is B.Netablo by halivar · · Score: 1

      How did you comment without an internet connection???

    2. Re:This is not Diablo, this is B.Netablo by splatter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No LAN, no buy.

      Fuck you, Blizzard.

      No LAN play, obtrusive DRM, lawsuits bans against players. No Buy!

      I agree screw Acti-Blizzard. Long time fan but no longer.

      --
      "(I) have this unfortunate condition that causes me not to believe a single thing any politician says when a mic's on.
    3. Re:This is not Diablo, this is B.Netablo by Piranhaa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I returned SC2 for this very reason.

      My nephew can't play MY COPY with his own account. He's required to buy his own copy even if I'm not using my copy.

      Fuck that.

    4. Re:This is not Diablo, this is B.Netablo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the whole point. You purchased a contract bound to a single online user account, not a site license.

      It's the wave of the future man.

    5. Re:This is not Diablo, this is B.Netablo by melikamp · · Score: 1

      I bought every WC 1-3, SC 1, and both Diablos; not SC2, but that's because I am not into RTS anymore. And I think I'll skip this one as well. Definitely gonna get the crack and give it a spin, but I am just tired of the bullshit DRM. I want to pay for a game, god damned, not a computer inspector. I don't give a rat's ass if people cheat online, as long as they can't player-kill me on battle.net or my own server. I think I am capable of finding a few people like me, who just want to do some legit co-op dungeon crawl and play with them.

      Anyways, Blizzard never really cared much about fighting cheaters. If you played D2, you know what a fiasco that was (the PK part; the game itself was great). I bet they would need to fix, like, 2 lines of code to make non-consensual player-killing go away, but they apparently decided that holding onto the original design principles, no matter how retarded they may be, is more important than facilitating playable co-op on battle.net. What Blizzard really wants and gets now is that you don't own the game, but only rent it from them. Cheaters are just a convenient excuse for monopolizing servers and introducing spyware like Warden in order to prevent users from playing the game on their own terms. We all know, the cheating did NOT go away, so every time they say something had to be done in order to curtail cheating, you know they are knowingly lying.

      I am really disappointed in Blizzard. D3 may well turn out to be a great game, especially since Leonard Boyarsky is on the team, but I simply do not trust them anymore. If you want me to pay for your games, Blizzard, open the source code. I will pay for an open-sourced game just like I paid for my copy of Slackware. What I definitely won't pay for is a piece of crud that only works with one server, yours, and runs spyware in the background. In my book, John Carmack is the only person who gets away with this, since I have reasons to believe that he has good will towards his users. I can see it in his dedication to GNU/Linux support and in his willingness to license his old games under GPL. Blizzard could hardly be more backwards in this respect.

    6. Re:This is not Diablo, this is B.Netablo by melikamp · · Score: 1

      Oh, and I'll make a prediction right now. Full-featured D3 will be pay-to-play.

    7. Re:This is not Diablo, this is B.Netablo by brkello · · Score: 1

      What? If he has his own account, then he could play using your copy. You mean he doesn't own the game and can't play the game logged in as himself. Well duh. Let him log in as you if you really want to let him play. You are an idiot.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
  12. I want it by ciderbrew · · Score: 1

    I want it and I'm sure I would go out and upgrade my machine if it needed it.

    However, and as always, there will be some form of DRM that means I will not part with my money to be made to feel like a criminal. Put the DRM on the copied games not on the ones I pay for (not too sure how they'll do that).

    It does look good. Hmm, Avernum needs some new artwork.

    1. Re:I want it by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Ironically enough they'll probably have more piracy on their hands due to their pointless DRM schemes.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    2. Re:I want it by halivar · · Score: 1

      SC2 has been out for a while, and I don't see large-scale piracy of it.

    3. Re:I want it by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      You don't? You monitored every torrent website in existence and were able to determine how many people are pirating Starcraft 2 and how many people pirated it in the past but stopped seeding? I know that when I searched for a torrent, I saw quite a few people pirating it. Millions, in fact. Now, they still probably got a lot of sales because the number of people who don't pirate is still quite large, but that doesn't mean that more people didn't pirate it because of the DRM. I know that if a promising game had highly restrictive DRM in it and I wanted to play it badly enough, I'd just pirate it.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    4. Re:I want it by halivar · · Score: 1

      Anyone who got a working pirate copy is enjoying an 8-hour single-player campaign, and nothing more.

    5. Re:I want it by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Actually, there was supposedly a crack for online play, but it was 'fixed' by Blizzard pretty quickly. It can be done, and people are currently working on it.

      Even if they did only get a campaign, there was and still are many people pirating it.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    6. Re:I want it by ciderbrew · · Score: 1

      I only want a single-player campaign. I don't enjoy on-line play.

  13. clickclickclickclick by mark72005 · · Score: 3, Funny

    And millions of left mouse buttons screamed in terror

    1. Re:clickclickclickclick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incredibly, I never lost a mouse to D2.

      I did, however, lose a mouse to getting 1750 in EQ tradeskills when that was the cap. (Planes of Power)

    2. Re:clickclickclickclick by geekoid · · Score: 1

      You know you can just hold down the mouse button, right?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:clickclickclickclick by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Having played both the PSone and PC versions of the original Diablo, They should just throw in support for a dual analog controller. For a Diablo style game, the console style controller is far less stressful on the hands.

    4. Re:clickclickclickclick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is switching targets. You start clicking repeatedly when you notice your delay in switching from a dead target to a new live one. You may be able to start out a session holding down the mouse button, but playing for about an hour will have you clicking as though you won $0.01 each time.

  14. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't give a shit.

  15. Dear Dunbal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Despite your ad campaign on slashdot over the past few days, I am still not going to buy it. I don't care if there's a new "news article" about Diablo 3 every single day, you are wasting your time.

    We are greatly disappointed to hear that we are wasting our time. We had hoped that by spending millions to set up Blizzcon every year and carefully planting agents at Slashdot to make sure that they reported all our news about Diablo 3 (as well as our other games, just to throw off suspicion), we would be able to convince you, Dunbal, to spend sixty dollars on our game. It is, after all, about you personally, because our success rests entirely on your opinion.

    Sincerely,
    Blizzard

  16. Glad I play games just to have fun by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    and not try to make societal statements. I mean, how hard is it to stamp our feet, display our angst on message boards, and not buy a game we weren't going to buy in the first place.

    Sometimes this generation depresses me, too many put more effort protesting makers of games than those running their lives.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by seebs · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I play games to have fun, but I recognize that I am always making societal statements when I spend money, whether or not I intend those statements.

      Blizzard's attitude towards Real ID has made it no longer fun for me to support them. I really enjoyed the game in and of itself, but if every time I log in, I'm reminded of all the ways in which Blizzard has been contemptuous of gamers and/or hostile to them recently, it stops being as much fun.

      I dunno if I woulda bought Diablo 3. I would certainly have bought at least three copies of Cataclysm (I had three accounts), though. I might have gotten Diablo 3, but the DRM, plus Blizzard's general attitude of late, have made it a definite "no".

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    2. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by halivar · · Score: 1

      If by "contemptuous," you mean, "eager to respond to respond to player concerns with changes implemented within the week", then yes, I agree. They are quite contemptuous.

      Real ID rage is getting really stale.

    3. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by contra_mundi · · Score: 2, Informative

      You don't care that game publishers are gradually trying to take our rights away (first-sale doctorine for example)?

      I guess you'll have fun for a while and then it'll dawn on you that you can no longer play until you submit to a cavity search by the anti-cheat robot and pay for the priviledge.

      Everything you do is a social statement, whether you like it or not.

    4. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      You don't care that game publishers are gradually trying to take our rights away (first-sale doctorine for example)?

      Whether or not he does, 99% of people who buy the games don't.

      As long as that's true, and I'm not saying it always will be but I'm not seeing how it would change at this point, the publishers would be stupid to care.

    5. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by contra_mundi · · Score: 1

      You don't care that game publishers are gradually trying to take our rights away (first-sale doctorine for example)?

      Whether or not he does, 99% of people who buy the games don't.

      As long as that's true, and I'm not saying it always will be but I'm not seeing how it would change at this point, the publishers would be stupid to care.

      Apathy will solve nothing, however.

    6. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      Out of concern of people quitting, yes. It was certainly a self-interested move.

      Oh, and two words: LAN play.

    7. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by halivar · · Score: 1

      I might buy that if WOW membership wasn't continuing to grow by leaps and bounds. They could have lost every Real ID griper and not even noticed it. Also, unlike EA and SOE, they are constantly fixing minor nits in the game in response to player desires. They are certainly doing more than their fiduciary responsibility to investors would require.

    8. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "Glad I play games just to have fun"

      I wonder how much fun you'll have if you find out your game isn't working because of the DRM, either immediately or eventually.

      "display our angst on message boards"

      I believe that they are trying to educate people about the risks of DRM and the problems that arise. Nothing will likely change if the majority remains uneducated.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    9. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      He's just giving the facts. There's not much else you can do besides attempting to educate people about DRM and why it is bad.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    10. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      Apathy will solve nothing, however.

      It's true; my point is more, as long as the vast majority of people don't care, you boycotting doesn't mean much -- more, to fight the problem you need to work for a sea change in the majority opinion.

    11. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by Vaphell · · Score: 4, Interesting

      you've got to be kidding. 50k long thread in WoW forum was locked in 2 days and hundreds of people posted their cancellation status. Europe had similar ungodly long thread too. People starting to leave can trigger a snowball effect, few friends leave so others have less motivation to keep playing and leave too. Ok, so in 2 days only tiny part of community found out and raged, but this info would spread and consume more and more subscriptions with every passing day. How many would quit after a month?
      Also remember that it was just before the SC2 release with Cataclysm on a horizon, so not only people cancelled WoW subscriptions but also preorders en masse. Bad press also counts, even reputable newspapers like WSJ picked up the story.
      They simply risked pissing off too many fans who up to that moment bought every single game of whatever genre with Blizz logo. They had no other choice but to put their plans on hold, otherwise they would have their ass grilled by pretty much everybody.
      Also remember that their official message about stopping this madness included ambiguous 'at this time'.

      The sad thing is that the only group of customers that has any influence over Blizzard is the WoW community. They send a stream of cash to blizzard every month so they are being heard. Other games with 'pay once and forget' model can be entirely ignored. SC players can whine all day and nothing will happen, D3 players will be treated similarly.

    12. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by halivar · · Score: 1

      That thread was dominated by a few repetitive users, and in such absolute minority as to not even amount to a pittance compared the users that logged into the game the day after Real ID came out, and added everyone they could.

      so not only people cancelled WoW subscriptions but also preorders en masse

      I don't believe that for one second. Purely wishful thinking.

    13. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by Ubergrendle · · Score: 1

      We will never know for certain, since Blizzard would be suicidally insane as an organisation to publish internal polling and sales numbers. But given their 24 hour turn around, I believe the pressure was sufficient to give them serious second thoughts.

      For what its worth, I was a 5 year WoW player who both cancelled my account (it was prepaid, so i am still playing -- i just cancelled the autotmatic resub) and ended up not buying Starcraft 2. I suspect a non-negligible number of people did the same.

      The RealID functionality now offers: a) establish RealID, b) disable friends of freinds browsing for RealID, c) disable Facebook visibility for RealID. This would not have happened had people not freaked out. I personally refuse to enable it.

      --
      John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
    14. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by halivar · · Score: 1

      Yes, if no one had complained, they would not have implemented those changes, because if no one had complained, it would mean nothing was wrong.

      Is there a problem with that?

    15. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by Ironhandx · · Score: 1

      The problem is that Blizzard thought this would be a good idea to begin with honestly. Do they really think there are people out there playing as Lucinda the Troll because they actually want to talk to people from their real lives?

    16. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by halivar · · Score: 1

      That's because is *WAS* a good idea.

      There are millions of players (like me) that communicate with RL friends in WOW, and the cross-server, cross-faction barriers are ridiculous. Real ID is the best possible implementation of a social network layer for WOW.

      If you don't have RL friends in WOW, then you never had a reason to use (and therefore, complain about) Real ID in the first place.

    17. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by Nursie · · Score: 1

      So because 99% of other people lend their support to something you find unacceptable, you should just give in and support it too?

      Screw that. The only way anything is going to change on this planet is if people have some principles and stick to them. Maybe it'll take 50 years, maybe nothing will ever happen, but if people actually started to think about what they're buying we'd be in a better place.

    18. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by ildon · · Score: 2, Informative

      50k long thread in WoW forum was locked in 2 days and hundreds of people posted their cancellation status.

      I feel the need to explain how the WoW forums work here. Threads are automatically locked every 50 pages. Moderators have to manually unlock the thread to allow them to extend longer. For a 50k post thread to exist, the moderators would have had to manually unlock it over 2000 times. They likely stopped extending the thread either for fear of breaking the forum in some way or because they had already formulated their response and didn't see any further posts as contributing to the discussion.

    19. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by ildon · · Score: 1

      You do realize that the 50k post thread he's referring to was protesting having people's real names displayed on the forums, and many (not all, but probably the majority) of the people were upset primarily about that factor and not as much about the in-game Real ID system.

    20. Re:Glad I play games just to have fun by brkello · · Score: 1

      I really wonder what world people like you live in. Who else but Blizzard has a track record for supporting games long after release? Blizzard supported Starcraft for 10+ year and it surely isn't WoW. You have to be incredibly stupid or biased to make a statement that Blizzard is only influenced by WoW. SC2 was influenced by the people who made SC1 in to an eSport for example. If WoW didn't exist, customers still would have been angry, still would have voiced it, and Blizzard still reacted.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
  17. Answered by eldavojohn · · Score: 3, Informative

    Every time there is a new Diablo 3 announcement, I scan through to see if they mention the item dropping/picking up system. Racing strangers to click the item the fastest was probably the worst thing about Diablo 2, and brought in lots of 3rd-party programs/cheats.

    Then perhaps you would find this article "Blizzard Explains Diablo III's New Loot System" enlightening:

    Yeah, drops for everything, bosses, normal enemies, chests, etc. all drop items per player. If you see an item drop, it's for you. If you pick up an item and don't want it, when you drop it then everyone else can see it.

    Basically what you see is for you and you alone. No one else may see or touch it until you drop it. As World of Warcraft illustrated, they learned from that. They learned a lot from that.

    --
    My work here is dung.
  18. Re:God, shut up about Blizzard already by halivar · · Score: 1

    Hrumph. Must be another disgruntled AoC fan.

  19. Blizzard Announces New Merger by Rivalz · · Score: 2, Funny

    Blizzard has recently announced Diablo 4 will feature MINECRAFT and Monsters

    1. Re:Blizzard Announces New Merger by antdude · · Score: 1

      HA HA HA! HA HA HA! :P

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  20. Re:Three Rules for Coming on My Girlfriend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what... the... fuck...

  21. hah by oic0 · · Score: 0

    I played diablo for YEARS. It had far far far far less clicking than WoW. In diablo you could hold buttons down and have the skill repeat. WoW, blizzard is intent on causing global scale RSI.

  22. thx for the review/knock it off with the comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for the excelent review.

    I am surprised so many people are spitting garbage about this new diablo game without having even tried it yet...

    Looks like it's going to be another super-seller game.

  23. Re:God, shut up about Blizzard already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Shameless ads and flat-out lies

    Hey, leave Apple and Microsoft out of this.

  24. Cool by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

    Looks pretty cool. Too bad it's made by a company who has shown far less consideration for its customers than many others and will likely have some sort of DRM that comes with it. It's a shame that they have to ruin what would be an otherwise great game with things that don't even really affect the gameplay itself. Oh, well.

    --
    Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    1. Re:Cool by Omestes · · Score: 1

      As a long time Blizzard customer, I don't see this. I have bought every single game by Blizzard (except Broodwar, since Starcraft wasn't really my thing), and have yet to leave disappointed. Sure Starcraft isn't as awesome as I made it in my mind, but mainly because I remembered that I wasn't a huge fun of Starcraft to begin with (I was more in the Total Annihilation camp, and still am, give me the first Supreme Commander over SCII any day). Bnet2.0 was annoying at launch, but after a week they weeded out the bugs and I haven't really had any other problems with single player (my ego isn't strong enough to really do multi). I haven't noticed the lack of LAN play, since I haven't played in a LAN party since Quake 3.

        DRM annoys the hell out of me, but I can live with it if there is a "value added" component, like Steam or Bnet. The convenience is worth the trade off. But then again I'm not really an idealist, DRM in itself isn't inherently wrong if implemented right. So far there hasn't been a perfect implementation, but Bnet and Steam are getting close. I am not idelistic enough to put off years of pleasure (if Diablo 3 is anything like Diablo 1 or 2) just because the DRM is a bit annoying. But then again I owned tons of games with REALLY annoying DRM (open your manual to page 37; what is the 5th word, in the seventh line of the 21st paragraph?), so just requiring an internet connection isn't terrible (not that you do, you just need them occasionally, and in offline mode some features don't work, like senseless achievements). I have a fairly dependable connection, it generally only goes down because my router is a little wonky. I can't resell my game... this is a bit annoying, but the last COMPUTER (as opposed to console) game I've resold was... Well... Icewind Dale? Selling PCs games is more annoying that not, since there are basically no resellers. I miss Electronic Boutiques PC used PC game section, but it will never come back.

      Who actually buys used PC games anyways? A game thats been out awhile is usually $20-40. If your that value conscious why not just hit up The Pirate Bay? Or wait another year for it to hit the bargain bin for $9.99? If you want recourse for buying crappy games (recapping some value, instead of a straight exchange), pirate it before you buy it. I do this, and feel no moral qualms.

      Sometimes Blizzard scares me, like with the increasing prevalence of micro payments in WoW, but so far there hasn't been any balance issues really, unlike in most of the other games that implement them. Their overhaul of WoW is a bit off-putting, but they've been making the game simpler since Burning Crusade, and the game is getting a bit long in the tooth. While making things simpler, they did fix my pet peeve about their development cycle, only focusing on the endgame and the "1337" end game raiders and PVPers. But I know I am one of those rare people who loved leveling more than raiding, I prefer my MMOs to be closer to single player, I suppose.

      As for your last sentence (I would quote it, but Chrome is still at war with /.): Wait, your refusing to play a game just because of things that don't affect gameplay. If you don't buy games for gameplay, then what do you buy them for? If things don't affect gameplay, then who really cares?

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    2. Re:Cool by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "The convenience is worth the trade off."

      No, it's not.

      "DRM in itself isn't inherently wrong if implemented right"

      Yes, it is. It's pointless and only hurts paying customers.

      "But then again I owned tons of games with REALLY annoying DRM"

      Any DRM is bad DRM.

      "Who actually buys used PC games anyways?"

      People who want to buy used PC games. Although, I've never really heard of a store allowing this.

      "If your that value conscious why not just hit up The Pirate Bay?"

      I already do.

      "I do this, and feel no moral qualms."

      There's no moral qualms to be had even if the game was valued at a single cent.

      "Wait, your refusing to play a game just because of things that don't affect gameplay."

      No, I'm refusing to buy it. If I did decide to play it, I would pirate it. But that goes without saying.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    3. Re:Cool by Omestes · · Score: 1

      The eloquence and grasp at the depth of the situation astounds me.

      Why isn't DRM worth the trade off for added features, if it doesn't hamper gameplay?

      Why is any DRM unacceptable?

      How is pirating something, flat out, okay? I endorse using piracy to try before you buy, or to replace something you purchased (the downside of DRM) but lost control of. If you have some perceived moral high ground I can see boycotting as a viable solution, but not flat out theft (I generally hate that mapping, but in this case it is pretty close to accurate, since you are getting something for nothing, for no perceivable reason outside of greed).

      Are you one of those people who hate DRM because it hurts your ability to pirate things, but goes back and comes up with a post hoc rational of being some digial Robin Hood, the protector of everyone from the horrors of DRM, when actually your main motive is just getting free shit without paying the people who actually put effort into it?

      Basically, DRM wouldn't exist without people like that.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    4. Re:Cool by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "Why isn't DRM worth the trade off for added features, if it doesn't hamper gameplay?"

      It restricts what I can and can't do with the game I bought. Pirated copies don't have this problem. Extra features? Okay. Why aren't they optional instead of forced (you said yourself that they're tied to DRM).

      "How is pirating something, flat out, okay?"

      Pirates don't actually take anything from anyone.

      "but not flat out theft (I generally hate that mapping, but in this case it is pretty close to accurate, since you are getting something for nothing, for no perceivable reason outside of greed)."

      There is no theft here. To do that means to deprive someone of something, and pirates aren't doing that. How hard is this to understand?

      Oh, and, before you say "potential profit," let me say that it is impossible to steal money that only exists in the future of an alternate dimension where the artist/business made more money (which is what 'stealing' potential profit really means). Also, absolutely everyone on the planet is 'guilty' of 'stealing' profit that others could, potentially, have had.

      Every single time you decide to exercise your right as a consumer to not buy a product, you're 'stealing' profit that the artist/business could, potentially, have had if you would have bought it. That's just one example. I have many, many more.

      Imagine that someone recently bought a product from a store and decided to, for whatever reason, tell their friends (who were originally going to buy the product) not to buy it. They ultimately decide not to. They would have bought it otherwise (sort of similar to how a pirate might have if piracy didn't exist). Therefore, profit that the store could, potentially, have had was 'stolen'.

      This effectively means that consumer choice, certain parts of speech, and competition between businesses should all be banned because it allows for people to 'steal' profit that others could, potentially, have had.

      "Are you one of those people who hate DRM because it hurts your ability to pirate things"

      No, because by the time I decide to pirate something, there's already thousands of working cracks for the game, making the DRM virtually pointless.

      "Basically, DRM wouldn't exist without people like that."

      Yet all it does is hurt the paying customers. Funny, that.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    5. Re:Cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Why isn't DRM worth the trade off for added features, if it doesn't hamper gameplay?"

      Except there is no DRM that doesn't hamper gameplay.

      If there was one, there's still a problem: DRM doesn't respect copyrights or the rights of the owner of the game.

      "How is pirating something, flat out, okay?"

      It's not. However, it's as OK as DRM that ignores copyrights limitations.

      "I endorse using piracy to try before you buy"

      And until they buy, it's still "before you buy".

      "but not flat out theft"

      It isn't. Nothing that belongs to the game publisher has been stolen.

      "for no perceivable reason outside of greed)."

      Because you can't see it (because you're blind to their position) doesn't mean there's no reason outside of greed.

      "Are you one of those people who hate DRM because it hurts your ability to pirate things"

      When the OP has said they already pirate, DRM hasn't hurt their ability to pirate things. How therefore can they hate it because it hurts their ability to pirate???

      "Basically, DRM wouldn't exist without people like that."

      No, since DRM doesn't stop piracy, DRM cannot continue to exist because of "people like that".

      And in what way are three installs stopping pirates???

    6. Re:Cool by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Except there is no DRM that doesn't hamper gameplay.

      Actually there is some. Having to enter a registration number is DRM, and it never really hampered much unless it was tied to annoying CD checks. Actually there has been a couple of annoyances (publisher printed wrong numbers, forgot to include them... etc...), but that happens with everything. There will never be a perfect DRM, because there never will be a perfect anything.

      I have never had a problem with Steam, which is basically nothing more than a DRM platform.

      Actually, Stardock might be closest to having it right. Their games have no actual DRM, but you lose access to patches, bugfixes, and online play. So you can pirate a game, and enjoy it, but you will never get the full, paid, experience.

      Console games too. They by nature have DRM, since they are locked into one platform. Their very existence is DRM, but no one notices since DRM is such a part of their nature that we take it for granted.

      And until they buy, it's still "before you buy".

      Unless there is no intention of a sale, thus invalidating the whole "before" concept.

      No, since DRM doesn't stop piracy, DRM cannot continue to exist because of "people like that".

      Huh? Those clauses are really related. Whether or whether not DRM actually stops piracy has nothing to do the reason publishers use it, which is to stop piracy. Welcome to the irrational world, where things often make no objective, rational, sense. I can't sum up much in the human world with a syllogism. Publisher put DRM into games to hamper piracy, it doesn't matter if it doesn't, that is why it is there.

      Another thing it exists for is raising the bar to piracy. If they make it difficult enough then less people will do it. The difficulty benefit equation will shift in their favor.

      And DRM does have some uses, it mostly is an attempt to keep the game from being pirated quickly, yes it will eventually be broken, but can you stave off the pirates for a month?

      I'm rather new at arguing FOR DRM. I am a slashdot user, and a long time geek, I am suspicious at all attempts to control products that I have bought. I find most forms of DRM to be annoying and harmful.

      But I also think that there is might be a place for it. People aren't entitled to play games for free. There is no right to do this. And doing so does hurt publishers, to some extent, and much less than they claim it does, but there still is an effect. Why the hell should spoiled kids be entitled to leaching the work of others for free? If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If you don't want to support whoever, then you don't need to play their damn game.

      There never is a NEED to play a damn video game, so there really isn't a valid reason (outside of trying before you buy to ensure capability and quality, since we don't have a legal avenue to do this) to pirate a game.

      On the other hand, people put work into it, and deserve to be paid for it. I have absolutely no problem with people getting paid for their efforts, especially if I enjoyed it. I have zero sympathy for people who don't.

      Perhaps I'm just getting old. I have no problem with piracy from BBSs through college. I even had some pride in it. But now I just think its stupid. Perhaps its because I have money now, or perhaps because I know what it is to work hard at something expecting pay (hint; most people wouldn't work without the pay element).

      Yes, things get rather draconian, and often (most of the time) DRM is completely botched. Yes, the big publishers overstate their case. No, the government shouldn't be involved... etc... I'm not painting DRM as some awesome thing.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    7. Re:Cool by Omestes · · Score: 1

      It restricts what I can and can't do with the game I bought. Pirated copies don't have this problem. Extra features? Okay. Why aren't they optional instead of forced (you said yourself that they're tied to DRM).

      I agree with you here, this is a problem with most DRM systems. DRM should feel natural, like it is in MMOs, or Stardock games (which don't have DRM, but patching and online support requires a purchase). I personally hate the online requirement of games still, since I generally like single player so having an always online connection seems to be waste.

      Pirates don't actually take anything from anyone.

      True, but trite. No, a single act of piracy does not equate to a lost sale, or map to a direct theft. Not all pirates would be customers, but a decent portion would be, so the equation is not 1 pirate = -1 sale, but there is some other ratio out there that is true (no good research on this...), and yes, sometimes piracy can lead to more business, but who knows if the lost sales and the added word of mouth equal each other.... Its murky. I don't have much sympathy for pirates, though, since I don't see them as being obligated to play any game.

      I have no problem with people expecting pay for their work, digital or physical. This is how the world works, and I don't see this magically changing just because their slinging 1's and 0's together instead of bricks. Nor does it change just because the work is creative instead of something pratical and physical. A song writer and a mason both deserve to be paid for their efforts.

      Oh, and, before you say "potential profit," let me say that it is impossible to steal money that only exists in the future of an alternate dimension where the artist/business made more money (which is what 'stealing' potential profit really means). Also, absolutely everyone on the planet is 'guilty' of 'stealing' profit that others could, potentially, have had.

      I wasn't going to. I agree it is a trite argument. But this still doesn't give pirates moral high ground.

      Every single time you decide to exercise your right as a consumer to not buy a product, you're 'stealing' profit that the artist/business could, potentially, have had if you would have bought it. That's just one example. I have many, many more.

      This is true. But generally when I decide not to buy the product do I get to use it for free. When I decide to not buy something I am opting completely out. I didn't buy a Toyota today, does this mean I am granted the right to have it for free?

      Yes, the real world/digital mapping sucks.

      You went through a lot of work arguing against something I never posited.

      If you don't want to pay money for a product, this is fine. But that doesn't mean it is okay to use it for free then. I have no problem with completely opting out. I decided not to pay money for the new Fallout game. This means I won't play it either, since it isn't interesting for me to fork over a small amount of money for, so it isn't interesting enough to play. By making that first choice "I will not give them money", did I somehow gain the right to play it for free? That doesn't make much sense.

      To clarify, I hate DRM. I am a long time nerd, slashdotter, so I am suspicious of ANYTHING that attempts to limit my ability to use things however I want if and only if I purchase or own them. I was a very prideful pirate from the age of BBSs (I still have my original pirated Doom floppies around here somewhere) through college. And I really have no problem with pirating things for legitimate reasons (even if the powers that be don't recognize that legitimacy). I just lost my patience for people who think their somehow morally obligated to use software without paying.

      If you can afford it, and you desire it enough to go through the effort of pirating it (which is often more complicated and annoying than a legitimate install) but refuse to pay for it, you really are no better than a thief, even if the concepts

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    8. Re:Cool by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "If you don't want to pay money for a product, this is fine. But that doesn't mean it is okay to use it for free then."

      Using it for free has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying. How are they inflicting harm upon these artists/companies? How does it hurt them if you use it for free if you don't even take anything from them? If you're not going to at least use a "potential profit" argument, you have nothing. You're basically just saying "they copied data and somehow this is wrong, so it's bad." Using it without their permission? This would only hurt them if you actively took something from them. I'm not against giving people money if you want to. That's nice. But, piracy really doesn't harm anyone. What harms people is our illogical capitalistic society that forces you to earn worthless paper to participate in it. If anything is 'harming' these artists and keeping them from continuing to fulfill their dreams and make more creations, it is that. Not competition between businesses, consumer choice, piracy, or word of mouth.

      "If you can afford it"

      I'd rather spend my money on things that aren't in an infinite supply. Things that I can't simply effortlessly copy without damaging anyone (technically, that would apply to everything you could copy).

      "and you desire it enough to go through the effort of pirating it"

      It takes no effort for me. I usually am just able to download it and use a crack. For software or music, it is even more simple. It's certainly worth the small amount of effort it takes to me.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    9. Re:Cool by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Using it for free has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying. How are they inflicting harm upon these artists/companies? How does it hurt them if you use it for free if you don't even take anything from them? If you're not going to at least use a "potential profit" argument, you have nothing.

      No, your not really inflicting harm. But that really isn't the point, since I'm not making an economic argument. I'm thinking more of the ethics of it. While it may not do direct harm to producers, piracy isn't really an ethical stance.

      Though I'm still not sold on there being a complete lack of long-term economic harm. To risk verging on the "potential harm" argument, let me bring up two related points:

      The Tragedy of the Commons and, more nebulously (touching on the ethical problem), Kant's categorical imperative. Both involve hypotheticals, so I admit neither is the strongest argument, especially if we consider immediate economic harm to by the highest form of harm. Both involve pondering a world where "everyone pirates", if everyone was to do so there would be no money, and therefore no production. This is rather self-evident. We should accept the production, and thus availably of products to be a good thing. Basically pure pirates (with the means but no intention to buy) are leaches, leaching off of paying customers. If there were no paying customers the leaches would collapse. So leaches completely depend on paying customers, since without them there would be no products. If more people become pirates, then there is less money for development of products (accepted as good). The ethical choice would then be to be a customer, since you benefit both yourself and the pirates (though they don't matter, since they add nothing to the system and are, in fact a bit of a drag to it).

      Very simplistic. But it works for ethics. I really can't see an ethical argument for piracy. If there is one, please enlighten me.

      I'd rather spend my money on things that aren't in an infinite supply. Things that I can't simply effortlessly copy without damaging anyone (technically, that would apply to everything you could copy).

      But there is a limited supply, really. Lets switch abstractions: your not paying for the actual game, or software, your paying for the developers time. That is a limited supply, obviously, unless we start producing zombie coders. You, like in all services, are paying for someone else's time, effort, and training.

      This is fun. Sorry, I'm being a bit of a devil's advocate on this.

      I also find it odd that mere economics trump ethics. Just because no one is directly harmed, doesn't make actions okay. And just because there is no immediate harm doesn't mean there isn't harm in the larger picture.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    10. Re:Cool by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "No, your not really inflicting harm. But that really isn't the point, since I'm not making an economic argument. I'm thinking more of the ethics of it. While it may not do direct harm to producers, piracy isn't really an ethical stance."

      Why? Is it because the artists would have received money for their works if the pirate would have given it to them? If so, the same could be said about someone who simply didn't buy it. The artist would have received their money if they did, which would be 'nice'. I don't see the problem here.

      "Though I'm still not sold on there being a complete lack of long-term economic harm."

      There can't be an economic harm because nothing is taken. That's like saying (again) that competition between businesses, consumer choice, and word of mouth (as in, people who tell others not to buy a product for whatever reason) cause "economic harm."

      "your paying for the developers time"

      Which, when I pirate something, I don't take any of their time in the first place. I use my own time to copy the data. It sure would be 'nice' if everyone went out and bought the product, pirate or not. After all, they are paying for the developers' time. They must be hurting the developer since they didn't.

      "And just because there is no immediate harm doesn't mean there isn't harm in the larger picture."

      "Every single time you decide to exercise your right as a consumer to not buy a product, you're 'stealing' profit that the artist/business could, potentially, have had if you would have bought it. That's just one example. I have many, many more.

      Imagine that someone recently bought a product from a store and decided to, for whatever reason, tell their friends (who were originally going to buy the product) not to buy it. They ultimately decide not to. They would have bought it otherwise (sort of similar to how a pirate might have if piracy didn't exist). Therefore, profit that the store could, potentially, have had was 'stolen'."

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    11. Re:Cool by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Why? Is it because the artists would have received money for their works if the pirate would have given it to them? If so, the same could be said about someone who simply didn't buy it. The artist would have received their money if they did, which would be 'nice'. I don't see the problem here.

      One difference between a pirate and someone who didn't spend money: the pirate gets to use it, where the person who abstained from purchasing didn't. There is no problem with completely abstaining, and you really can't equate that to the same thing as pirating. The pirate obviously desires the product, since he is using it, the person abstaining obviously doesn't since they refuse to buy/use it.

      As I stated previously; economic harm and ethics aren't always the same thing. I'm more concerned about the ethics than giving publishers and artists money, though I think they do deserve it.

      I haven't actually seen an argument for piracy being ethical yet, without resorting to economic harm, as if they were related. I over state, I have seen some, where piracy is used a form of protest, or for short-circuiting large labels in favor of engaging in activities that support the creator directly (because the large distributors act unethically). It doesn't seem that you are approaching this from this ideal, since you disregard creators as much as publishers.

      If someone makes something I want, I think it is fair that they receive compensation, as a motive to create further work, and to show some bit of appreciation for their efforts, and to cover the time they spent in which they could be doing something more lucrative (if no one paid for it).

      Which, when I pirate something, I don't take any of their time in the first place.

      You do. They made a product, and expected to be compensated for the time and labor they spent doing it. Getting paid for labor is a very common thing in this world, you might even have the same expectations.

      Imagine that someone recently bought a product from a store and decided to, for whatever reason, tell their friends (who were originally going to buy the product) not to buy it. They ultimately decide not to. They would have bought it otherwise (sort of similar to how a pirate might have if piracy didn't exist). Therefore, profit that the store could, potentially, have had was 'stolen'."

      This is VERY different than piracy, since you actually bought the product to begin with. It really doesn't matter if you dissuade others from also buying it. Thats fine. They chose to opt completely out, and that is fine, and you exchanged money for services.

      As stated, I really don't give two shits about economic harm, I care about the ethics.

      Why SHOULD you pirate? That might be a better question than "why shouldn't you?".
       

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    12. Re:Cool by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "the pirate gets to use it"

      What does this have to do with anything? How did this harm them? If it didn't do any harm, why is it 'bad'?

      You keep talking about 'good' and 'bad', yet you've given no reason as to why piracy is somehow 'wrong'. Oh, and, those words are subjective in the first place.

      "There is no problem with completely abstaining"

      Why? The artist put a lot of time and effort into that product, and these people have the gall to not buy it or perhaps tell their friends (who were originally going to buy it) not to! They deserve the money!

      "as a motive to create further work"

      Sounds like it is our illogical capitalistic society that is hurting them to me. Worthless paper should not be incentive.

      "They made a product, and expected to be compensated for the time and labor they spent doing it."

      Yes, they did. Now why didn't everyone in the world go out and buy it? It doesn't matter whether or not the pirate got it for free. That is irrelevant. They did no harm in doing so, so why is it 'bad'?

      "and to cover the time they spent in which they could be doing something more lucrative"

      You can't give them time. It's impossible.

      "This is VERY different than piracy"

      No, it isn't. No one paid for anything, and the only difference is that the pirate got media for free without harming anyone.

      "They chose to opt completely out, and that is fine"

      Why? I disagree, I think it is wrong. Now what? Are you going to say that your definitions of 'right' and 'wrong' are superior to mine?

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    13. Re:Cool by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Why? I disagree, I think it is wrong. Now what? Are you going to say that your definitions of 'right' and 'wrong' are superior to mine?

      Yes. Yes I am. I stated three times now that economic harm is the lesser of my points, and pretty much has almost nothing to do with anything. ETHICS is the point, not mere monetary gain.

      Why? You call money "worthless paper" but base you entire value system around it. If you derive your ethics from currency (monetary harm), but call said currency "worthless", then your ethics are suspect.

      You might not, but you have not provided any ethical argument FOR (positive argument) piracy at all, and you argument on why it isn't wrong (negative argument) is wholly based on the lack of economic harm.

      Also, and I hate to bring up money again since you seem to be fixated on it, piracy is unsustainable. Pirates add nothing to anything. They do nothing for anyone. They are complete parasites that serve no purpose whatsoever. As such they are waste. And waste isn't useful, by definition.

      Sounds like it is our illogical capitalistic society that is hurting them to me. Worthless paper should not be incentive.

      Worthless paper = shelter, food, and the other basics of survival. Try living without "worthless paper" for a year, and see how things turn out for you. I personally like my collection of worthless paper, it allows me to survive and eke out some modicum of comfort (the laptop I'm writing this on was exchanged for worthless paper, btw, as is the computer your writing on.)

      Worthless paper isn't. It is a symbolic entity representing work. The paper itself is silly, but culturally we add a common meaning to it. that meaning is symbolic, but necessary. Unless somehow, you expect the barter system to be viable, and then still your objects traded become symbolic of work in their relative value. This is inevitable and necessary.

      Or at least it is until you can design a viable alternative economy devoid of "worthless paper" or other symbolic currencies. On that will still allow for complex works that you enjoy leaching.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    14. Re:Cool by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "but base you entire value system around it"

      I do? I merely live in a system which incorporates it, but I am all for its removal.

      "You might not, but you have not provided any ethical argument FOR (positive argument) piracy at all, and you argument on why it isn't wrong (negative argument) is wholly based on the lack of economic harm."

      You're not explaining something: why is it wrong? What makes it wrong?

      "Worthless paper = shelter, food, and the other basics of survival."

      In our current capitalistic society, yes. That is what I am getting at.

      "On that will still allow for complex works that you enjoy leaching."

      I believe leaching implies some form of harm is done, which you said yourself isn't the case.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  25. Ok... by Korveck · · Score: 1

    It seems D3 allows much more customizations of character builds with the new tech tree system and skill runes, but I have my doubts that this will actually work. Gamers typically take very little time to figure out what combination of skills (+runes) work best. Most of the skill rune combos will not be attractive options and we end up with few overpowered builds. In D2 each class had few viable builds that could survive hell difficulty, and had half of their skill tree virtually unused. If the skill balancing and specialization are not well planned out, all the new skill systems will be in vain.

    Another problem is the necessity of grinding to get mid-high end items. Most D2 players made a sorc just to run Mephisto over and over, and perhaps other builds to specialize at one single dungeon. There is no mention of how D3 will be different.

    My last complain is the new classes look like simple mix of D2 classes. I'm not saying the play style will be similar, but something unique would be very welcomed.

    1. Re:Ok... by tixxit · · Score: 1

      I learned a while ago that most RPGs are best played for their roleplaying aspect. Don't try to choose the combination that maxes out your characters potential, just play a character that you want to play and enjoy playing. If the game is a little harder for it, then you're doing it right.

    2. Re:Ok... by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      I did that during D2 a lot. Everyone hated me because I was always the Necromancer running around with maxed skeletons and cause everyone's 14.4 modem to DC.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  26. What's wrong with the screenshots? by vadim_t · · Score: 0

    They're .png files, but they look like horribly compressed .jpg. Or the game really looks that bad?

    A higher resolution wouldn't hurt either. It's been ages since I played anything at 1024x768.

  27. War of the ants by Thundercleets · · Score: 1

    So what will be the next teleporting hammerdin? I hated that about D2, players taking advantage of the system, Blizzard saying it's not a bug but a feature and then not doing anything about it. If anything was done about it it took the form of nerfing the ability making the class ability next to useless.

  28. god, hype is so stupid by Nyder · · Score: 1

    Every company always hypes their games as the best, and worse here is Blizzard, who has an actual good record for games they did, um, like what, 10 years ago now?

    Since then though, what do they have to show? ya, WoW, and being bought by one of the crappiest publishing companies out there.

    Starcraft 2 came out, but i'm not impressed. More of the same crap from the past. Which isn't as popular as it once was.

    Now we will have Diablo 3. A game based on a gaming genre that has sort of passed us by. Sure, we have some click fests come out recently, Torchlight being one. But is this that big of a deal as people are making?

    I know people who are talking about this like it's going to be the game of the decade, and they haven't even played it. They got their money down on something they are hoping will give them the same feeling they had 10 years ago, but it won't.

    A friend of mine was talking up Duke Nuke'm Forever or whatever it's going to be called, providing is does actually get released. "Ya, this game is going to be so fucking cool to play" says my friend. I reply "Sure it will. For like 10 mins, then after the 'fuck ya, it's finally done' moments, you better hope there's some sort of decent story in it, or plays well. Because I wouldn't put it past a company to put out whatever just because they know the hype of the game will sell copies".

    Of course, he was too stoned to even realize I was talking.

       

    --
    Be seeing you...
    1. Re:god, hype is so stupid by Erick+Lionheart · · Score: 1

      Now we will have Diablo 3. A game based on a gaming genre that has sort of passed us by. Sure, we have some click fests come out recently, Torchlight being one. But is this that big of a deal as people are making?

      Considering how many people (me included!) still occasionally whip out D2 for some fun, I -do- expect that this will be HUGE. Enormous really (http://www.gamersloot.net preorder your copy now ;) ).

      I was quite disappointed I couldn't get my gf interested because the graphics were so dated for her (ah the young generation!).

      I know that we're -still- selling keys for D2 and expansion to this day, and expect we'll keep selling more until D3 is out (and maybe after??).

      I'm actually pretty astounded at the fact that Bliz not only supported the game this long, but actually continued -development- for it for over 10 years!! Do you know -any- other "pay-once-and-get-forgotten" games that get patches and actual new CONTENT 10 years later?? (from developers that is, am sure there are plenty still supported by fans/mods) It's hard enough to get devs to fix a few of the more egregious bugs after launch.

      I tried torchlight, and it was ok for a while. But just... not the same.

      I think I'll start yet another sorc now actually... 'later ;)

      --
      http://www.gamersloot.net/

  29. Probably going to wait for the expansion... by TheStatsMan · · Score: 1

    I already know they're leaving things out, so I will probably just wait for the inevitable expansion pack.

  30. Main item on my wishlist by WormholeFiend · · Score: 3, Funny

    a secret cow level

    1. Re:Main item on my wishlist by Palshife · · Score: 1

      thereisnocowlevel

      --
      Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
  31. Time Stand Still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I'm still playing Heroes of Might and Magic III on my Pentium. Can I play Diablo 3 on this or should I upgrade? :P

  32. A slightly different reason for boycotting by fake_name · · Score: 1

    I know my personal game playing preferences, and after completing Diablo 3 in X I'll want to go in to Single Player mode with a memory editor and mess about for another 10X hours in assembler creating novel cheats and hacks for personal amusement.

    Blizzard's behavior with Starcraft II means this will cause my account to be locked, despite never cheating on any multiplayer content.

    This means no Diablo III purchase for me.

  33. Re:Three Rules for Coming on My Girlfriend by Nadaka · · Score: 3, Funny

    I know, he didn't even mention what theater they were going to be at.

  34. I lost interest in this game months ago by jonwil · · Score: 1

    I will not be buying/playing Diablo 3 (despite being a HUGE diablo 2 fan)
    Why? Simple:
    1.The "everything goes through the online system" crap (same reason I did not buy Command & Conquer 4)
    2.Too many gameplay changes from Diablo 2 that I dont like (changing the way skills work for example, changes to the potion/health/etc system, others that I cant remember off the top of my head)
    3.Abuse of the legal system by Blizzard (bnetd etc)
    4.The fact that Blizzard are owned by Vivendi who continue to lobby governments the world over for ever more draconion IP rules

    If I was going to pick up a new RPG to replace my copy of Diablo 2 and my high level Barbarian it would be something from Bethesda like Oblivion or Fallout 3. Bethesda doesnt seem to have done anything evil as far as I can find with Google.

  35. None of this matters if a net connection is req... by jimnorcal · · Score: 1

    A discussion between my wife and I today:

    me: I've decided not to buy Starcraft II afterall.
    wife: Really? Why?
    me: because they require a broadband internet connection just to play single player games instead of just mulit-player games.
    wife: What? They're pulling that crap too!?
    me: yep. that they are. And sadly, if they play the same game with Diablo II, I will not be buying that either.
    wife: I understand that.
    me: They're (Blizzard) also suing people who have made single player game mods for Starcraft.
    wife: how does such a thing hurt anyone let alone the company who makes Starcraft?
    me: As far as I know .. it doesn't. Blizzard, who makes the game, just wants to be iron fisted when doing so makes no sense.
    wife: well then, don't worry. The plans I had for your birthday and/or xmas will be quickly rearranged.
    me: good idea. No one should be required to spend over sixty dollars for a game they intend on playing by themselves then also have to fork over $30 to $60 a month in high speed internet fees in order to play their single player, non-internet necessary game.
    wife: Yea, It's ridiculous!


    You reading this Blizzard? Stop playing these games and I'll go back to buying your products. Otherwise .. I will never purchase another blizzard product again. I may be one person which doesn't make a different to you, but I'm hoping there's enough people out there that feel the same way and will work together to change your policies. You were a good, un-corrupt company at one time ... .. what happened? The younger generation of gamers may be too stupid to resist your new tactics .. but us older gamers are a bit smarter and more disciplined and won't fall for it.

  36. Unlike Diablo 1 or 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unlike Diablo 1 or 2, it looks like this one will from the outset demand online play. Diablo 2 started off with a decent one-player game but then they kept tricking out the monsters so that a single player (who will maybe have no ranged play, or no magic or no physical damage who will then be nuked by the various immune bosses) has NO CHANCE of getting through the game, unless you cheat like fuck and get a trainer and buy all that tricked-out pimp kit that gives you +18 Bone Spells or whatever.

    Since 10.8 update I've not played Diablo2 at all. It's just not possible without tricking out your character.

    And, without mules, by the time you pick up the first decent uniques, they're horrendously under-powered and you're better off chucking them away. They only turn up with Lv30+ characters and have a Lv reqirement of, like 6 or something. If you can't pass it on to a new character, you sell it.

    1. Re:Unlike Diablo 1 or 2 by toddestan · · Score: 1

      There's a few builds that can more or less solo the game. Whirlwind + berserk barbs, Orb + misc fire/lightning spell sorc, and the almighty blessed hammer paladin (this skill is bugged in terms of the immunities, so this build can kill nearly every monster in the game). At least that's the way it was when I last played. Of course, this means that these builds are pretty much the only ones you'll ever see in the game.

  37. what of performance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't believe i read all that blab and NOT ONCE did it mention anything about PERFORMANCE!!!...did the game actually performance smoothly at all??? what were the graphical options???? as the game maxed out??? what hardware was used to play it??? so much for a comprehensive review when i forgot about merely basic things like this.