A Robot In Every Korean Kindergarten By 2013?

kkleiner writes "Elementary school children in Korea in the cities of Masan and Daegu are among the first to be exposed to EngKey, a robotic teacher. The arrival of EngKey to Masan and Daegu is just a small step in the mechanization of Korean classrooms: the Education Ministry wants all 8400 kindergartens in the nation to have robotic instructors by the end of 2013. Plans are already under way to place 830 bots in preschools by year's end. EngKey can hold scripted conversations with students to help them improve their language skills, or a modified version can act as a telepresence tool to allow distant teachers to interact with children."

Comments

Would the grade sheet say ...

[Musically_ut]

Your child has failed the Turing test.

Re:Would the grade sheet say ...

[__aaclcg7560]

You mean the Turing test in the sex ed class? Boys who plug their joystick into an electrical outlet should automatically fail.

All Korean classrooms?

[TheRaven64]

I'm assuming this means all South Korean classrooms. I dread to think what kind of robots Kim Jong Il would want to put in classrooms...

Re:All Korean classrooms?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, had to go to CNN to find that one out, even TFA was just saying "Korea".

This can happen only in Korea

[arivanov]

Have you seen a Korean child? Think of a ragdoll cat. You put it somewhere (with books and toys in hand) and you can safely come back a couple of hours later. It will be there and you will not hear a squeak in the meantime. I have no idea how they do it and I am not sure if I should admire it or get shivers from it.

In any case, a robot will not survive 15 minutes in a classroom with average European (or american for that matter) kids. I know what my daughter will do. If she cannot get her hands on a screwdriver she will craft herself a replacement out of whatever she can find and start disassembling the thing until she has figured out what makes it tick or it is so dead that she will lose interest. That is probably still better than the reaction of her brother who would simply use it for target practice.

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[Der Huhn Teufel]

I know this is the internet, but come on, that post reeked of sarcasm. No need to go on the offensive.

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[gtirloni]

I'm sure their sugar intake is 1/3 of the American and European ones.

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[seifried]

What's destructive/violent about disassembling something to learn how it works? Oddly enough it's what I did as a child, and now as an adult (this skill is particularly valuable in the security industry for finding and fixing vulnerabilities). As for the target practice comment I look forward to teaching my kids how to throw accurately (as an adult I can underhand lob a bag of garbage a good 20 feet into the trash can outside, saving me about half of the walk which is especially practical in a Canadian winter).

Please don't teach children that it is wrong to be curious (e.g. disassembling things). We need people who actually care about how stuff works (hint: you're using a computer. not invented by the timid and afraid to break things)

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you seen a Korean child? Think of a ragdoll cat. You put it somewhere (with books and toys in hand) and you can safely come back a couple of hours later. It will be there and you will not hear a squeak in the meantime.

I see that you haven't raised a Korean child.

Listen, dude, I don't know what the hell you're smoking about (maybe you just found one highly aberrant kid and assumed all Koreans are like that), but Koreans are just human. Good kids will do their homework, eat their supper, clean themselves, and go to bed. Bad kids will inhale buthane (it makes them high), pwn Americans in WoW, drink and have sex. Most kids are somewhere in between.

We don't have a magic recipe for making our kids behave like a civilized human being. You know, if we had such a thing, we'd have conquered the world by now, don't you think?

* A proud (but exhausted) father of two Korean kids.

* As for TFA, shouldn't our government spend their tax on getting *human* teachers? You know, the kind of guys who can actually feed and take care of young kids until their parents get home at 10 pm. Yeah I know I'm asking too much for our politicians...

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[Luckyo]

This is admitted by government and more wealthy families rather openly as a huge problem. Schools in South-Korea are essentially institutions that destroy creativity by design - they are designed to produce robotic-like work drones for huge South-Korean conglomerates.
An average school day for young children in South-Korea is about 12-14 work hours. First at school, then at tutoring school, then at home. There was a great documentary about the issue on BBC about a year ago, where they showed that average day, and noted that even prime minister of the time spoke of this system as something bad, and something they want to change. Document noted that more wealthy families actively send their children out of the country specifically to avoid the system, and mentality that comes with it.

Essentially it's a mix of local culture and the desire of major conglomerates to have cheap and robotic, yet educated workforce.

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[Sycraft-fu]

Neil DeGrasse Tyson had a great bit on this, which I cannot find right now, where he encourages parents to let their kids take things apart, let them learn. He argues that kids are born scientists. They don't believe in shit like horoscopes and they want to experiment on their world, their surroundings. So he says that when kids want to take something apart, and it is dangerous/expensive/etc, let them, let the experiment run its course. Let them keep and nurture that natural curiosity that is so key to being a scientist.

I think too many people who see only the superficial level idealize the Asian education/cultural systems because they see the children as being so much more quiet and respectful, and they think that is good. Ok, maybe so, but at what cost? For the last 15-20 years Japan has been having a major crisis in their educational system that they aren't producing creative thinkers. They produce conformity very well and this comes at the cost of creativity. They've been working to rectify it, but it is hard since (as we know) changing an educational system isn't easy and there's cultural issues here too.

We've not found the perfect way to raise kids yet, and probably never will, humans are complex. However you need to look carefully at the pros and cons of various things before jumping on them as being The One True Way(tm). So Korea has an effective way to teaching kids to be very quiet and behaved. Ok, great, at what cost and using what methods? If you can't answer that, then you really aren't in a position to say it is a good way of doing thing.

I have to agree with Dr. Tyson: The innate curiosity children have is important, and should be encouraged. Wondering about the world and trying to learn is how we've gotten to where we are. Sitting down and being content with what you are given gets us nowhere.

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[arivanov]

Ragdoll is an American cat breed you dolt.

Uncommon in Europe, but very popular with American families because it will hadrly ever scratch back. It also has a strange, uncatlike characteristic reaction when you pick it up. It just goes limp until you put it down. As a result kids drag them around like ragdolls. That is where the name comes from.

It also tends to pretty much sit where you put it and you can pick it up from the same place a few hours later. Once again, I have seen a ragdoll make himself comfortable in a position that my old siamese would have never staid in.

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[arivanov]

You are missing the point.

There is nothing wrong with using computers and robots to educate kids on a one by one basis. They are priceless to that regard. The same 8 year old I referred to is spending up to an hour a day with things like Mathletics, Spellodrome and educational multimedia. That however is one to one.

The idea to put a robot into the dominant position in a human social environment which is a classroom is beyond idiotic. A teacher is not just an explainer and illustrator. A teacher is an example to the students. It is the "leader of the pack" and any teacher not ready to assume that position should never try to cross the classroom door. Even if a robot manages to assume that position, which I doubt, I really do not want to be anywhere near the kids coming out of that classroom.

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[arivanov]

So what, punish (and put on pills if that does not work) every child which has a curiosity how things work? Punish (and put on pills if that does not work) every child that would question the authority of an adult.

Wonderful idea. That has been tried by the way and is the standard tactics of lazy and incompetent teachers especially in some countries. The ballpark figures for the UK are that more than 25% of children with special statements have them for exactly that reason - their teacher at some point was too lazy and incompetent to enforce authority and went for the easy way out (that was on the BBC and a few major newspapers by the way, I am not inventing that number)

The result of such laziness is also well known - it is well known which countries end up exporting intellectual labour or importing brains.

No thanks, I would rather have my 2 and a half year old disassembling toys and picking locks (which she does) and my 8 year old try his luck in an authority contest with any new teacher he has. By the way he won in reception and year one vs both teacher and headmaster leading to the point where the incompetent dolts in those schools trying to stitch him with a statement. He has lost the contest with every teacher since in his new school. Lots of headache for me, but hey, that is what children are for - to give parents a headache once in a while.

And going back to the original topic - I cannot see anyone growing up while allowed to question authority and tinker with things not making a mockery of a robot teacher. That may work only in a society which has considerably harder concepts of seniority and authority than EU/US.

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[sznupi]

Vs. the model of a perfect average child "diagnosed" with ADHD, drugged with Ritalin, etc.?

(one can wonder from where does the desirability of ragdoll cats come from)

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[arivanov]

We don't have a magic recipe for making our kids behave like a civilized human being. You know, if we had such a thing, we'd have conquered the world by now, don't you think?

Civilized != Unruly and vice versa. A kid that will refuse to sit in one place and read a book when told and will go wondering off around and exploring his surroundings may still be perfectly civilised. A kid that will disassemble her robot tutor is not uncivilised, she is curious. A kid that makes a hellish racket when playing may not necessarily be uncivilised and so on.

As far as conquering, questioning authority and independence are essential attributes to a conquest mentality. It is exactly the opposite to what you are inferring to as "civlised". Good example is medieval Japan which folded onto itself and staid stagnant for centuries. It was civilised to the bone. Super duper civilised society where everyone knew its name and place. Question authority? Yeah right, where is that blunt bamboo saw for your neck?

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[Anonymous Coward]

Being married to a Korean woman, and having lived and visited South Korea many times, I can speak with some authority. Pretty much everyone you will meet in South Korea is "quiet and respectful". Part of their culture is being respectful to others. If you act like a lout and a buffoon over there, you will soon be shunned by _everyone_. Your actions have a social consequence, something that is sadly lacking in many western countries.

Another thing is that almost everyone you meet has been educated to a high level. Even the workers in fast food restaurants tend to have degrees. A consequence of this high level of education is that you _have_ to study hard as a child and get qualifications just to survive. Another consequence of this high level of general education is that people are more refined in their manners and actions towards others.

Laziness is abhorrent to Koreans. It's not tolerated. They have a strong work ethic, which may seem like anathema to the Western World, but it produces far more capable and responsible people.

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[damburger]

Would your children disassemble a cat?

I have a 12 week old kitten, recently visited by three small children (aged 5, 3 and 6 months). The 3 and 5 year old were very gentle with her and could basically play with her unsupervised (and did so at several points). These were not unusually well behaved British children.

You don't have to pass the Turing test; you just have to get your robot to simulate as much agency and intention as a small animal and they won't destroy it on purpose. Children raised properly aren't mindlessly destructive.

Re:This can happen only in Korea

[Pharmboy]

Schools in South-Korea are essentially institutions that destroy creativity by design - they are designed to produce robotic-like work drones for huge South-Korean conglomerates. ... ...a great documentary about the issue on BBC about a year ago, where they showed that average day, and noted that even prime minister of the time spoke of this system as something bad, and something they want to change.

So if the question is "how do you not produce robot children", the answer is "install robot teachers"?

Re:This basically means

[0100010001010011]

Nah. By starting out in Korean classrooms you can more or less guarantee that none of them will be named Sarah Connor.

Re:Begs the question

[Genda]

Why a Machintosh you silly git...

Might help in our steps towards the stars, one day

[sznupi]

Yes, such robots seem somewhat superficial now (where are all the old people / couldn't they us them?); perhaps the rate of progress made many of us think in terms of quickly showing tangible benefits & utility of something (which was rarely the case, for most things around us)

But "descendants" of such robots might prove crucially important in one of our "ultimate" endeavors ... after they've been sufficiently improved, most likely over the course of centuries. Well, those might be first steps of that process.

Fitting, considering the region is revving up its space programs? ;p

(yes, hibernation being also a possibility - question is, at what cost of mass to support one grown human vs. equivalent mass of fully automated systems meant to kickstart the colony; and the crew would be usually of skeleton size at most anyway, with robots certainly still crucial)

What about TV?

[mangu]

If a particular culture wishes to subject their offspring to this kind of learning experience, so be it

As opposed to a culture that subjects their offspring to insufficiently trained, badly paid, undermotivated human teachers? And after school they sit in front of the TV?

Excuse me?

[sosaited]

EngKey can hold scripted conversations with students to help them improve their language skills

Scripted conversations are better compared to normal human conversations in helping young children develop language skills? What a joke.

Re:Excuse me?

[camperdave]

Scripted conversations are better compared to normal human conversations in helping young children develop language skills? What a joke.

Yes. It will of great value when the children enter the help desk and telemarketing sector.

Typical Korea

[Ventriloquate]

in three to five years, Engkey will mature enough to replace native speakers.

This is another one of Korea's stupid ideas to save a quick buck. At one point they tried to have Korean teachers replace the foreign teachers saying that they could do the job just as well. Obviously, it didn't work. Not only because they have poor hiring standards across the board (cheapest = best) but also because it's very difficult to teach a language without native speaking knowledge.

Robots teaching kids? Stupid and destined to fail.