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Social Media Accounts Part of Deceased Oklahomans' Estates
An anonymous reader writes "Estate executors or administrators in Oklahoma have the power to access, administer or terminate the online social media accounts of the deceased, according to a new state law. '"The number of people who use Facebook today is almost equal to the population of the United States. When a person dies, someone needs to have legal access to their accounts to wrap up any unfinished business, close out the account if necessary or carry out specific instructions the deceased left in their will," Kiesel said.'"
But will facebook play ball or say the state they are in does not have that law and we will not let you in.
I think they will unless whatever state they use for legal jurisdiction says they can't. The main reason being that there's no profit for them in having dead accounts and it looks really bad refusing lawful requests.
Wow. Too smart for a FP but seriously skewed in some direction I can't fathom...
If the account is not sold, there's no way to judge fair market price ... but even then at least per US tax law last I looked you can gift an asset to someone and then they pay no tax on it.
Then you go on to more adventures, but I'll stop here before I get deafened by whoosh because I'm sure you meant to be funny.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I think they'll probably go along with it. Facebook has an increasing awkwardness problem with the accounts of dead people, and has made some efforts to mitigate it via things like "memorializing" pages. To the extent that someone wants to make "figure out what to do with the dead person's Facebook account" part of the estate-resolution process, it basically takes the problem off Facebook's hands and passes it to someone else.
The main stumbling block I can think of is how to set up a procedure for handing off an account. You have to verify that the person in question really is authorized to execute the deceased's estate, and that procedure might vary from state to state or country to country, which might cause some administrative hassles for Facebook.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Good job, Oklahoma.
there's no profit for them in having dead accounts
I disagree on that point. I'm sure people who have died and whose pages are visited by others make them money by ad views. However, the optics of the situation from a marketing perspective far far outweighs the amount they make, so I agree overall with your post.
I call it 'The Aristocrats'
You're DEAD
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
What sort of business do people conduct on Facebook aside from the non-human primate variety?
Facebook says they have 500 million users. Last I knew, that's quite a bit more than the population of the USA. http://www.facebook.com/press/info.php?statistics
Wait, wait, wait, Gimme a minute, Let me first go and register that domain
Dang it. Some squatter got it already. Damn!
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Seriously people. Fuck facebook. Mod me down, I don't care but having a executor of your facebook account to post one last status update is fucking ridiculous. This shit is really getting macabre.
So my facebook page can continue after my death? Sweet. Its so going in my will that my Social Media pages must continue like I was alive. I will be imortal! If they hire a decent author it will be better than if I was alive.
I have one real and two faux FB accounts.
From a statistics standpoint my sample size of one is flawed.
Nevertheless, I'd wager that there are a lot fewer real FB accounts than the numbers would suggest.
Ha ha, my captcha is "aliased"
It has been very hard in the past for members of the deceased to close down their social networking accounts, or even post a message with the funeral information. This law should give them the ability to manage the accounts accordingly.
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
You forget an essential part of marketing: public image. My personal prediction is that social media websites will embrace these laws and even come up with a few apps on the way. It's I believe a natural transition. Social media is no longer made up of 13 year olds anymore.
right...
That the Singularity will not come for Ray Kurzweil?
...since the administrator of an estate normally has power of attorney. This law may make it easier for administrators to convince Google et al of that fact without resorting to court orders, though.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I've got a mutual agreement with a couple of different friends. They'll be able to access and attend to my accounts, and I theirs, whenever one of us dies. Not just online stuff, but dealing with personal computer stuff that family really doesn't need to be dealing with. We're all single, and happy to remain that way, so we won't have spouses to do that for us. In my social circle two people have died in the past 5 years and have had their blog account memorialized. I'm not one for sentiment, but it helps that the accounts were neither deleted nor just left without explanation. Granted, this wasn't on facebook, but presumably people who use that service frequently would feel similarly.
http://transformativeworks.org/
That they apparently have people in Oklahoma, or that they have internet access!
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Ok, so a fairly sensible provision, statutes need to evolve with this sort of thing.
But.. Is there some sort of proviso that you must immediately announce (in a decent manner..) the death of the accounts owner if you use it to conduct any public affairs, such as replying to a forum message, private message, email message, etc.
Or can you -only- use it to wrap up the accounts? are you obliged to close the accounts as fast as possible?
I'm not suggesting you should have to post 'this person is dead' messages all over the internet, just that you must clearly state you are the deceased's executor if using the account to leave any messages in private or public forums.
There is a real potential here for 'post mortem fraud..'
"Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
There is no legitimate market for social networking accounts. The black market is only for spammers, phishers, etc. and in the open light of day they disappear. The account is "worth" exactly what the original owner paid for it, minus any depreciation. In general, it is worth nothing. It may have some worth to the original owner's family as it may contain photos, etc. that have meaning to those folks. Putting it under an executor's control since it has no real tangible value, but may have content with sentimental value is the right thing to do.
Facebook doesn't really have a choice. The executor, for practical purposes, is acting as the decedent. A court order will clear up any uncertainty.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
More interestingly (to me, since I'm not dead (yet)), if an account is part of an estate in death, then how does that affect its status in life? Is it *my* property? And if so, what rights do I have to it beyond what Facebook provides in the license agreement? And if it's not my property in life, then how can it possibly be part of my estate in death?
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
How many accounts do you think are valued at millions of dollars? You are showing how much you know about the inheritance tax.
"This is how capitalism works" and taxes don't go together. Taxes are not capitalism, they are government intervention.
The main stumbling block I can think of is how to set up a procedure for handing off an account. You have to verify that the person in question really is authorized to execute the deceased's estate, and that procedure might vary from state to state or country to country, which might cause some administrative hassles for Facebook.
That's the process to legally act as the deceased, but can't Facebook simply make their own process by amending the ToS? Something like "On conditions X, Y and Z, Facebook will provide the account login information." That might be death certificate, signed statements, perhaps a delay to prevent it being used to steal live accounts and so on. Assuming they provide that, it should be legal for Facebook to hand over the information even if it's according to some local estate protocol.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Forgot password?
Lost access to registered Mail account?
Owner died and you're the heir?
Is it me or would that look REALLY scary?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Without taxes the government wouldn't get far.
Without government there would be no market.
Capitalism requires government intervention in order to function. Also it is only a small part of the ideals our government and society are built on and therefore does not dictate what the government can and cannot do. There are also little things like the idea of a republic, common law, and democracy just to name a few.
No. It isn't how the US founding fathers envisioned; nor should it be. They had many good ideas and a few bad ones as well. Also they did NOT envision the US as being a pure capitalist nation.
Your debts are not "your property" in life or in death. Yet the executor of your estate has the ability by law to act for you in maintaining and settling those debts during the distribution of the estate. Your instructions as to how you wish to be memorialized/buried are not "your property" in life or in death. Yet the executor of your estate will more likely than not be authorized to carry out those instructions to the exclusion of the wishes of others.
Your estate includes not just property, but obligations, the ability to exercise legal rights, and a whole host of other activities which can be carried out by the estate entity in your stead. The family court will consider your wishes concerning the guardianship/adoption of your minor children, even though they certainly are not "your property." Your presumption that this is an either/or situation is flawed.
It's good to know that my children will be able to cherish my facebook account long after i'm gone. It is a prize that will be handed down through generations. To think, a hundred years from now, my great-great-grandchildren will be able to log in as me and "poke" all my dead friends. They can surf while logged in as me, and facebook's trackers will add the viewed sites to my advertising profile. This way, facebook will have a way of delivering incredibly well-targeted ads to them (as they will have generations of data to use). It warms my heart.
What makes you think that Facebook has a choice?
To my darling wife I bequeath my ebay(tm) account with the 100,000+ power seller star status. To my loved sister I bequeath my facebook(tm) account with 4999 friends and 300,000 acre strips of land in Farmville(tm). Finally to my brother who has helped me weather all the storms of my life I bequeath my WOW account with the Shadow Priest with the 6600 gear rating.
There is or can be built a machine that can simulate any physical object. -Church-Turing principle
I suspect Facebook will soon alter their TOS to do whatever is to their advantage. It may include a clause that gives them ownership to accounts of the deceased.
Can we please dispense with euphemisms? Taxes are not "government intervention", they are robbery. It just so happens that most of us are willing to tolerate robbery when it's done by government allegedly for the public benefit.
I write sci-fi for metalheads
You're confusing capitalism and anarchy. There's absolutely nothing in capitalism that excludes taxation.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Even I, still alive, cannot regain access to my MySpace account, because I lost access to the email address and forgot the password. There is the "salute" process. It doesn't work. They don't even respond.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
The executor or administrator is basically an agent. Provided they have good authority agents "are" their principal. For example, a company director is an agent of the company and his actions "are" those of the company*.
This can be not only awkward but difficult for practical reasons when the principal is dead, especially for tasks not considered when drawing up the executor's powers.
Basically this law means by default the executor has the same power over the social networking accounts as their principal did when he was alive, so he only needs to prove to Facebook that he is the legal executor. It only means he "owns" the account as much as the principal did.
* There are restrictions though. I'm not sure about the US but here in UK it's more or less a common-sense approach: it might be possible for the company to avoid taking on responsibility for a loan that a director fraudulently put in the company name because it would be generally expected that a bank would perform due diligence checks before lending a large sum. It would be much harder for them to avoid responsibility for debts the same director ran up ordering goods in the company name and delivered to company premises but kept privately.
The article was pretty vague on a skim-read regarding the method of closure:
legal warrant on behalf the estate for those left behind? Facebook no longer demands proof of ID via one-time cellphone "authentication." Meaning, John P. Smith from New York and another John P. Smith from New York can falsely claim based on legal names that the accounts are both theirs (plead errors leading to the creation of dupe accounts or something.)
just keeping my password? the law would need to force it out of me in life --FAT CHANCE! we all know what happens to information stores at the hands of "trusted" others, like your ex-girlfriend's password and racy emails, etc.
Option two is more sane --forcing surreptitious violators to authenticate normally, meaning, two John P. Smiths and only one email address, and only one correct password residing in the brain of the deceased, then I don't see how an unwilling living FB user will give away his FB login and password before he dies for the benefit of tying loose ends that no dead man would be there to need to deal with... let alone their e-mail creds for indirect access to resetting FB
Capitalism requires government intervention in order to function
Wow. Talk about an unsupported assertion. In other news, lungs require government intervention in order to breathe.
Facebook should add a binary field to their DB that indicates if someone is alive or deceased. Then they should clone the web site and launch www.facebook2.com. (Note: I'm assuming the domain name facebook.com is only defined in one place.) This way, advertisers can market their services as appropriate to either Facebook proper or Facebook2.
I know this doesn't solve the issue of who can flip the bit. I'll leave that to the lawyers.
Sure, but the examples you give -- debts, children, and burial -- are your (or someone's) legal obligation. Accounts are neither obligations nor rights, so then what are they? The only other possibility is that it's an asset. In fact, a cursory Google search appears to confirm that this law asserts just that.
As an aside, children are a notable exception, in that if there are no surviving parents or guardians, then the decision is ultimately up to a judge. You will may be considered, but the best interest of the child will always prevail (theoretically).
So I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be, and I will be interested to see how this plays out.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Am I the only one left that doesn't have a FB account?
Am I about the only one that is just kinda creeped out and paranoid about all the info they gather and share/sell about their members?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The main stumbling block I can think of is how to set up a procedure for handing off an account. You have to verify that the person in question really is authorized to execute the deceased's estate, and that procedure might vary from state to state or country to country, which might cause some administrative hassles for Facebook.
Because every other business (banks, utilities, etc) haven't solved this problem already with respect to the accounts of dead people.
What makes you think Facebook has to obey the law or whatever in a state where they have no physical presence?
I mean, still today at this point...a store selling something on line, cannot be forced to collect tax for a state they don't have a physical presence in....and that involves $$$$$$.
I mean, if a state can't force them on the almighty tax dollar...you think they can force them to do anything with a mere social site account?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Interesting, but an account is a contract, and contracts cannot be continued by a non-living person, nor can they be transferred unless the contract explicitly makes allowances for that. For example, one may have a contract of employment with his employer, but the executor/principle certainly cannot become the new employee in your stead.
I suspect this law will be ruled invalid should it ever be tested in court.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
They would have to admit that all those dead accounts belong to living people while active ones belong to dead people.
Oklahoma's law seems a very good clarification of this issue, and it provides companies like Facebook with a good way to authenticate notifications of a customer's death.
But I don't live there, so I have some Python scripts waiting for that day.
That's to make sure that my Facebook friends get notified that "Apuleius may be attending Apuleius's funeral."
A friend of mine died 5 years ago. I still get suggestions to link to him as a friend on some social networking sites. Creeps me the hell out.
I'm not dead (yet))
Yes you are.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure contracts may continue after death, they are only voidable if the contract involves some characteristic personal to the offeror.
Because of this your example is correct, but it is not generally applicable. However there are numerous other possibilities that might often come into play such as frustration of purpose.
In our case I expect "personal characteristic" is arguable either way but I should think it would be extremely easy to word the service agreement in a way that suits whatever Facebook wants. I should think Facebook does not want these accounts there nor would they want their users having to decide whether to de-friend Dad.
IIRC it's even possible to form contract if the offeror dies before receiving acceptance, provided the offeree did not know at the time (I guess this is only possible under unilateral contracts or the postal rule?).
Capitalism. Government. Who cares? This article is about Oklahoma so neither one of those has any bearing on it. In Oklahoma, it's all about funneling money to the good 'ol boy oligarchy that has run the state since the capitol was stolen at gun point from Guthrie.
of an Oklahoma Cyber-cult who uploaded their consciousness online. They can 'friend' people posthumously! creepy!
Wikileaks Is Democracy
So if they die after 12:00am Jan 1st 2011, does that mean the Government will harvest and confiscate 55% of their Farmville crops?
All I'm going to say is about fucking time. Unless you've been there, trying to clean up the estate of a loved one, there is no way of really conveying the stupidity of the current way most companies operate.
Interesting, but an account is a contract, and contracts cannot be continued by a non-living person...
False. This is true for some types of contracts (like employment in your example) but not for all types. Specifically, contracts to pay out money continue after death and bind the estate. IANAL but I am a law student and I have taken Contracts.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
I'm not a lawyer either, but I am a law student who has taken Contracts and you are correct.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
The main stumbling block I can think of is how to set up a procedure for handing off an account. You have to verify that the person in question really is authorized to execute the deceased's estate, and that procedure might vary from state to state or country to country, which might cause some administrative hassles for Facebook.
How is this any different from handing off a bank account? Somehow brick and mortar institutions have managed to handle this "stumbling block" for centuries. Facebook doesn't have to handle any more administrative hassles than any bank with the same number of customers would.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
Many funeral plots are leased, not sold. And yet, leased funeral plots can still be part of your estate.
The worldwide number of FB users is equal to the number of US citizens.
So there is plenty of Americans who don't have a facebook account :).
Don't *most* services automatically remove account that haven't been logged-into in more than X many days? And, if so, if the appropriate person wasn't handed the account credentials within that timeframe (say, 6 months), then the account is gone and any "pending business" would be gone, too.
antipaucity
You like contracts? Want them to be enforced? That's government intervention. Now try running an economy without contracts or enforcement of them, you won't get very far.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
If you think robust markets would exist without a stable government you are living in a fantasy world.
That way, they can never take my /. account!
This sig is false.
You like contracts? Want them to be enforced? That's government intervention. Now try running an economy without contracts or enforcement of them, you won't get very far.
Funny, criminal organizations seem to have no problem with contract enforcement.
If you think governments are the only way to enforce agreements between people, you are VERY naive.
Lets see things government does to create marketplaces without which capitalism cannot operate:
Enforce Contracts
Produce Currency
Enforce basic rules of the marketplace
Prevent warlords from taking capital through simple force.
Establish ownership rights in the first place beyond simple possession.
Create and maintain public works such as roads, bridges canals, sewer systems, communications systems, schools, postal systems and cities (US founding fathers did all of the above, to name a few).
Help to ensure a general education level among the populous enabling employers to be able to hire better employees at a lower cost.