PS3 With 3.50 Firmware Jailbroken Without Downgrade

Khyber writes "Hackers: 2 Sony: 0 — that's the current standing score now that the X3 team have successfully performed a jailbreak on the official 3.50 PS3 firmware, allowing homebrew applications and more to be enabled. Here's a video of the jailbreak in action."

Comments

ok ..

[Anonymous Coward]

so does it run linux?

Re:ok ..

[xaoslaad]

Hard to say; dark, blurry video, with no commentary other than the groans of some mouth breather. All I know for certain is he owns a PS3 and a lighter.

Re:ok ..

[SilenceBE]

Yeah Sony shouldn't had removed the "Other OS" option as those hacks are being mostly used for supporting linux on those systems. That is why the whole modchip industry exist, just to cater the linux needs of people.

It is a shame that Linux is being used as an alibi because (even If I was also mad that they removed linux support) we shouldn't be hypocrites why these hacks in the first place exist... . It even doesn't matter if a Sony product does support linux as the mantra on slashdot is that it is not done to use sony products0 But then again I was thinking the same thing about flash, although when its about the iPad we are pro flash. Pffff sometimes it is really difficult to follow the slashdot party line.

Re:ok ..

[jx100]

http://www.ps3-hacks.com/2010/10/19/asbestos-running-linux-as-gameos/

Yes.

Re:ok ..

[hedwards]

So, the solution then is to not own any consoles? Seriously, Sony isn't any worse in this respect than Nintendo or MS is. At least Sony provided the Other OS option, which neither of the competition did.

I just wonder if this hack actually works, I remember trying the other ones previously, and they did not work as advertised. Followed the steps precisely and nothing. Wasn't the only one either.

Re:ok ..

[froggymana]

Nintendo doesn't put any (major) efforts towards stopping people from "Hacking" their systems. Look at the Wii, you can install the HomeBrew channel on every Version currently with at least two different options.

Re:ok ..

[hedwards]

Perhaps, but last I checked if you wanted to move games from one unit to a replacement unit you had to send it to Nintendo for them to do. The Wii is the most locked down of the consoles, that isn't particularly negated by them not spending as much effort at busting mods.

Re:ok ..

[hedwards]

Do you have a better theory as to why the hacks only started about the time that Sony took that feature away? I know there was that one guy that claimed to have gained root. But he refused to actually release it and Sony reacted by taking away the Other OS feature and updating firmwares to fight the efforts.

It seems a bit much that it took this long for the first successful crack to appear and now they're coming out so quickly.

Re:ok ..

[zonker]

Looks like he owns a Wii too. Nice big crack in the center of his screen he covered with electrical tape... Clear signs of someone playing without the wrist strap.

Re:ok ..

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

Sony is worse for having shipped the console touting its ability to run Linux, then removing that option remotely. I'm not a huge fan of any of the consoles, but neither Microsoft nor Nintendo can match Sony in asshatness.

Re:ok ..

[larry bagina]

Most people don't care, but I bought a PS3, in part to play with linux/cell development. That was an advantage it had over the wii or xbox. Had they not been a feature, I don't think I would have bought it.

Re:ok ..

[CyberDragon777]

It looks like the tape is his 1337 H4xx0r way of blacking out sensitive information.

Re:ok ..

[Khyber]

Wait a second, we've got RSX access?

WTF why isn't this the bigger story instead of mine? Screw my story!

Re:ok ..

[anomaly256]

Same. But boy was I ever pissed off and dismayed when they locked down the RSX access and left us with a shitty HV-mitigated framebuffer too slow to play back media or do any realtime visualization of anything. Shiny red Ferrari with no wheels.

Re:ok ..

[larry bagina]

that's awesome.

Re:ok ..

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah.. i wonder how many IPs on PSN out of the 6500ish IP range his is in.

Re:ok ..

[itsenrique]

If only I had mod points.. This is very true. Although most people who 'jailbreak' their PS3s these days are probably running 'backup' games this is appears to be the result of sony's own decisions.

Re:ok ..

[Darkness404]

So you are more happy with a company which advertises one thing then remotely changes it down the line? Would you be happy with owning a box set of DVDs only to find out that 2 years later they removed some of the episodes? Would you be happy with buying a computer then suddenly 2 years after you've had it the disk capacity goes down by 50 GB? With removing "OtherOS" Sony committed fraud, I much more strongly despise Sony for using fraudulent tactics than I do Microsoft or Nintendo which haven't resorted to such tactics. Also, the Wii is much, much, much more open than the PS3 or 360. Nintendo doesn't try to ban third-party controllers like Sony does, and doesn't kick you offline if it detects a "modified" console like Microsoft does. Yes, there is always that yearly update that it takes the homebrew guys a week to get around, but other than that it is the most open of the 3 consoles.

Re:ok ..

[cayenne8]

I've not really tried console gaming in decades..and was looking at getting a PS3. I figured it would be a gooc choice in taht you get a decent bluray player, streaming netflix and games. I also read the networking games are free to play vs paying extra for xbox or Wii.

I'm also kind of interested in the hacking of it.

Can someone explain to me exactly what 'homebrew' is all about? Are people out there independently generating games for the units or is this just code words for being able to play copied games? What all can you do with one of these units, a Wii or a PS3 that has been jailbroken. Anyone have any good links to what all this can do for you?

Re:ok ..

[Khyber]

Basically, once you have full access, you have the ability to do whatever you please on the machine.

From running copied games to running your own code or other peoples code.

Re:ok ..

[drinkypoo]

Can someone explain to me exactly what 'homebrew' is all about? Are people out there independently generating games for the units or is this just code words for being able to play copied games? What all can you do with one of these units, a Wii or a PS3 that has been jailbroken. Anyone have any good links to what all this can do for you?

No good links, but plenty of experience. I have The Homebrew Channel installed on my Wii and I modded my Xbox. Both platforms have original homebrew games, but they are few. Both platforms have tons of emulators, allowing you to play classic games. And both platforms have media players that permit you to use your console as... uh, a media player. In fact, mplayer has been repeatedly ported to the Wii. On the Xbox it's Xbox Media Center, which is now a cross-platform Win/Mac/Lin software, and it's fantastic.

The simple truth is that there's no way to use the console for arbitrary purposes without enabling people to play unauthorized copies. That's why we have the "substantial non-infringing use" metric, to determine if people are just using it for piracy or not. And indeed, the simple truth is that there are lots of people using it for purposes other than copyright infringement. You have a legal right to make backups. You don't have the legal right to remove their protection. You do have the right to modify the product they send you, and re-sell it even. You don't have the right to modify their code and send it without the product, though, and redistributing BIOS has gotten some modchip vendors in trouble now and again. These days nobody really makes that mistake.

Re:ok ..

[drinkypoo]

That's exactly what they did on the PS2, and there was no good reason to believe that they would do anything different.

Re:ok ..

[uolamer]

I have a jailbroken PS3. I bought the PS3 within the first few weeks of it coming out. I used it quite a bit the first few months, lack of games compared to the 360 really was annoying, besides the online part for the PS3 was pretty limited for a while also. It is much better these days.. Anyway it ended up collecting dust for a good while. I had not and did not intend to buy any game for it for well over a year.

I jailbroke, played a few games, got bored, and it collects dust again. Same for my Wii (I got bored with that within a week). Same for the 360. Im guessing same for this iPod touch soon.. Point is I doubt they lost any money. I had no intention in buying any games for their PS3 and had not bought any in well over a year.. I spent more time playing with emulators and things of that nature than anything else. I highly prefer playing on the PC when I can.. Now my Wii can play DVDs (I dont care that it does really though), emulators, and all the other nice stuff that...

I would have never bought a PSP except I knew I could hack it and get all the games for free. I would have never bought a Gameboy Advance except for that same purpose. Same for a few other systems. Same for that iPod touch..Same for the Android phone I will buy soon (not sure which one yet, leaning towards Galaxy S phones)..

Re:ok ..

[froggymana]

I find http://wiibrew.org/ to be very useful for wii Homebrew. The wii's main homebrew scene is completely against piracy. Their main goal is to allow you to do what you want on your wii, like play SNES, N64, NES, etc. games on your wii, along with other open source games. There are also movie players that allow you to play movies off of a networked drive or a USB drive plugged into the wii.

Sure, you can find guides for playing .iso's that you have downloaded but it can get a little tricky to do.

Re:ok ..

[Nursie]

Homebrew == non-approved software.

Hacking the console for homebrew means letting the system run code that hasn't been signed by Sony. Some of this code is 'backup managers' that run iso files from hard drive, yes. Other stuff is other games, emulators for older consoles and other systems, anything you like really. Linux has been re-enabled this way too, though as yet there's no graphics support IIRC.

Re:ok ..

[Phopojijo]

Well that is a decent solution actually... use the PC -- do what you want with it -- pay less for it -- not have tonnes of redundant hardware and accessories -- don't have a platform developer to pull the plug and deprecate every piece of art in its catalog (Poor Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath) -- use whatever control mechanism the game developer wishes to support (rather than the platform developer) -- not pay license fees to said platform owner.

If only an open platform like Linux actually had enough marketing to stretch its wings.

Re:ok ..

[JonJ]

Seriously, Sony isn't any worse in this respect than Nintendo or MS is.

Yes they are. They fooled customers into thinking they would support an open source environment and would be an affordable route to get a Cell-based computer. Then after they have gotten people to buy into their lies, they pull that support. I'm pretty sure that has a term... Oh yeah, bait-and-switch.

Re:ok ..

[Bert64]

Sony are arguably worse, because they initially offered this option and then later made you choose which of the consoles features you'd like to keep.
You used to be able to dual boot with linux *AND* play games, however if you keep linux then no modern games will run anymore.

MS/Nintendo never offered the ability to run linux as a feature, and they still offer all of the features they ever did.

Re:ok ..

[drinkypoo]

Uh, the last Nintendo update bricked some Wiis with the last version of the HBC installed...

Re:ok ..

[CronoCloud]

No, that's not the case. On the PS2 X actually had limited hardware acceleration. It ran Enlightenment better than the PS3 did, I know because I actually did it. You could also code directly to the metal for full access to the GS.

Re:ok ..

[CronoCloud]

You used to be able to dual boot with linux *AND* play games

Yep, that was awesome. Though, as you know, the partition schemes allowed were annoying. You either had 10GB to GameOS and the rest to Linux, or 10GB to Linux (not really enough) and the rest to GameOS. Couldn't split it in half like I wanted.

Re:ok ..

[DrScotsman]

I imagine you've probably also been replied to many times that not updating "removes" other functionality. I'm not a PS3 owner but I've heard this includes using the PSN, playing new games, potentially playing new Blu-Rays, and of course any advantages that come with software updates. At least two of those are very easy to justify as advertised features (Games & Blu-Ray).

So either you lose one feature or you lose (at least) one other. I think the GP's comment applies perfectly, Sony cannot escape their "asshatness" by the fact that you can choose between two unpleasant outcomes.

Please don't mention anything to do with EULAs by the way. Whilst I would happily justify against Sony in a legal discussion of the matter, all we're talking about right now is Sony being an asshat.

Re:ok ..

[mister_playboy]

That does not change the fact you have to choose between the ability to play new games/access PSN and the ability to run Linux.

I'd love to play GT5, but it requires FW 3.50 and I'm not going to upgrade from 3.15 until I see how the jailbreak scene develops.

Re:ok ..

[Moryath]

Homebrew is a number of things:

- Dosbox. Running classic old DOS games on other hardware is phenomenal.
- Third-party web browsers that do a better job than the "included" browser. Most Opera ports to "closed system" consoles count as homebrew.
- Alternate OS. Sony's "OtherOS" linux implementation was a locked down, powerless mess that didn't give proper access to the video system. With the advent of homebrew now, actual, full-access Linux can be loaded to perform far better. I look forward to the day when I can slap in a hauppauge USB TV tuner and turn my PS3 into a MythTV backend when it's not running games.
- Emulators for dead systems. Atari 2600, Colecovision, Intellivision, Atari 7800, and onwards. This includes not just the questionable "archived roms", but actual homebrew games for those systems that are still being programmed.
- Third-party software apps such as media players, audio jukebox players, etc.

Re:ok ..

[Anonymous Coward]

XBMC as far as I know, no longer stands for XBox Media Center... It's simply just XBMC now =P

Re:ok ..

[Moryath]

Their main goal is to allow you to do what you want on your wii, like play SNES, N64, NES, etc. games on your wii,

Nintendo would call that "piracy."

I still say the term "Jesusing" would be better. Think of the parable of the fish and the loaves: "copying" a rom is literally creating something from nothing. Piracy is an actual act which takes something away from someone else.

If we all just started calling it "Jesusing" instead, think of how much sympathy we'd get from the fundie christian types too!

Re:ok ..

[Richy_T]

I like this idea. Someone should make a short video based on it that could be substituted for the anti-piracy ads when you "Jesus" a movie.

Re:ok ..

[Richy_T]

The one before last got rid of the HBC. I have it back now but there's another update needs to be installed to use the Wii shop.

Re:ok ..

[drinkypoo]

Well, it certainly isn't developed for the Xbox any more, there's just one guy making backport releases. And if it's an acronym then it is forever Xbox Media Center until they change the acronym, I don't care what they say.

Re:ok ..

[AmiMoJo]

Actually Microsoft has disabled some 3rd party controllers in firmware updates. The main ones affected were older Mad Catz arcade sticks IIRC. They did it when the first unlicensed controllers started to appear out of China in the past few months. XBOX 360 controllers use some kind of cryptographic handshake to establish their authenticity and to prevent 3rd parties making peripherals without a license, much as they can do for the PS3 and Wii. Mad Catz offered to replace any affected controllers if they were under warranty, but since they are early models none of them are likely to still be in warranty.

All console makers seem to be asshats in one way or another. What Sony did seems particularly pointless since it has not prevented the development of jailbreak hacks and only served to penalise legitimate users. The original hack made use of the Other OS feature but only as a starting point to access the hypervisor. Once that was available for analysis jailbreak hacks were developed by exploiting bugs found in the hypervisor which have nothing to do with the Other OS feature or Linux.

Terrible video

[Anonymous Coward]

Next time get a tripod, use manual focus if you have to and then after you shoot the video block out what you don't want people to see in a video editor.

PS take that Sony!

Mod parent informative

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately I just used my last mod point. Please mod up the parent comment, it sums up everything there is to say about that video.

So who's writing the driver for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

..Kinect's so last month.

http://www.emotiv.com/

2:40 minues of my life I'll never have back again

[Anonymous Coward]

This video is terrible. Don't bother.

So what does Sony break next?

[Sarusa]

So I guess the real question now is what PS3 functionality Sony is going to cripple in the next forced upgrade to try to defeat this.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[noidentity]

You know, Sony could easily solve this once and for all by just stopping the CPUs. May have some side-effects, but they shouldn't be too bad, at least for Sony.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

And yet the apologists will still give Sony a pass on this instead blaming the hackers for having "forced" Sony to do this. Blame the person pulling the trigger, not the person antagonizing him. If I tell somebody that I'm going to smack them if they don't stop whistling, and they continue to whistle, who is the person at fault?

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[geminidomino]

If I tell somebody that I'm going to smack them if they don't stop whistling, and they continue to whistle, who is the person at fault?

Scary analogy. Have you ever uttered the phrase "Why you make me hit you, baby?"

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[theaceoffire]

"And yet the apologists will still give Sony a pass on this instead blaming the hackers for having "forced" Sony to do this."

O.o Well they didn't care when we ran emulators, or homebrew. It was when we had one guy bragging about copying $60 games and playing them (In a way that was easy for everyone else to do with a simple burned CD) that they got concerned. Am I supposed to pretend that he DIDN'T brag specifically about stealing the games, which is how console makers make up the loss in hardware costs?

"Blame the person pulling the trigger"

I thought you said DON'T blame the hacker?

"If I tell somebody that I'm going to smack them if they don't stop whistling, and they continue to whistle, who is the person at fault?"

You are. Just like how Sony kept disabling our hacks to gain hardware access, but we kept 'Whistling' till they scrapped the whole thing.

And you know what? If you bought the PS3 ONLY for homebrew and emulators and so forth, removing otherOS doesn't affect you. Only when you try to play the newest games, newest movies, or on their private network do they require that you keep your system updated.

Sorry, feel free to go back to sony bashing. I know how popular that particular bus is.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Have you ever uttered the phrase "Why you make me hit you, baby?"

Only to your Mom.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Dahamma]

The fact is Sony doesn't make money selling their hardware (they might make a bit now, but not enough to make up for their previous losses). They make money licensing and selling games.

Even with that, I think it's pretty obvious they had no problem with Linux and homebrew development, since they supported Linux on the PS3 for quite a while. It was only once pirates took advantage of it that they decided they had to lock it down. I guarantee you, if no one was copying and selling pirated games, this would never have happened - so yes, the hackers did cause it. Which does make me more pissed off at the pirates than it does at Sony - I think a better saying would be "your selfish actions ruined it for everyone."

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Introducing : The SONY brick! It's shiny! It sits under your new flat screen, and looks very cool alongside the other shiny black boxes! Upgrade now!
SONY doesn't deserve to be in an open market.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact is Sony doesn't make money selling their hardware (they might make a bit now, but not enough to make up for their previous losses). They make money licensing and selling games.

Not our fault. Perhaps they need to learn how capitalism is suppose to work rather than unloading stuff at a loss and praying that they'll make money in the long run so long as they use the law and regulations (A non-free market situation) to protect their locked down device.

Keep in mind that I say this even with a non-jailbroken PSP that I enjoy plenty of gaming on with the stuff I bought for it. It really should be quite simple. If I want to play the games they're selling I should leave it alone. Fair enough, but if I want to do my own thing with it it's none of their fucking business what I do so long as I'm not downloading and playing commercial games I didn't buy on it.

If I ever dabble in homebrew stuff on the PSP, I'll get myself a second one and use it just for that purpose. It won't ever see a commercial game in it's umd drive - which would probably get some tape placed over it just to make sure it stays that way.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Dahamma]

praying that they'll make money in the long run so long as they use the law and regulations (A non-free market situation) to protect their locked down device.

Did you RTFA? It wasn't about regulations, it was about (failed) engineering attempts to lock it down. Capitalism, and all that... they have been trying to solve their problem themselves.

As you said, normal users notice no difference. And to the hackers... to quote Airplane (RIP, Leslie!): "They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash."

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to Slashdot. We have quote tags.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing is I can't give Sony credit for the alternate OS. They absolutely crippled the system when it boots linux and homebrew devs and everyone in that community have been struggling against these restrictions since the start. Frankly it does not matter one bit why, they removed an advertised feature after the fact. Some people bought the damn thing expecting some fun working on linux distros and aps taking advantage of a novel and powerful platform. Could you imagine if you somehow cobbled together some sweet mini USAF cluster style computing power out of a few of these but still like playing ps3 games on them with your roommates. Then they tell you its one or the other. How about your music player which advertised .ogg, flac, and all sorts of codec options suddenly would no longer load music unless you updated it to only support .wav or .wma purchased from one place because pirates use .mp3. Bullshit right, but hey those pirates should have never used mp3's right.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are you complete moron. Whistling isn't against the fucking law, so we are all as free as a bird to do it as we please. To impose your own rule on threat of violence is moronic, and I'm suprised you're a poster here at slashdot.

I'm sure I speak for 99% of others here when I tell you to fuck off and not come back. You aren't wanted here.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, you would be at fault.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[feepness]

So I guess the real question now is what PS3 functionality Sony is going to cripple in the next forced upgrade to try to defeat this.

Maybe they'll remove Home, Netflix support, Playstation Plus, PS Move, 3D BluRay, 3D Game support, Photo printing, Hulu support, MLB network, trophies, in-game XMB, facebook integration, recording in-game movies, uploading movies to youtube.

Oh wait, no, that's all stuff they've added. For free.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[feepness]

Scary analogy. Have you ever uttered the phrase "Why you make me hit you, baby?"

It's interesting to see both sides using this argument while accusing the other side of the same thing:

You made me remove OtherOS because you hacked the console!

You made us hack the console because you removed OtherOS!

You can choose one for your "side", or you can tell the other "side" they can't use theirs. But no, you can't have it both ways. Not yours.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Dahamma]

Yeah, that I totally agree with - removing a feature that *was* officially supported doesn't even seem legal. I guess they probably made users accept an indecipherable EULA that covered their ass that let them do it...

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are, you pathetic wifebeating son of a bitch.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[Sarusa]

Troll? Someone modded this comment as troll?

Sorry, Sony fans, I don't think pointing out the unpleasant truth of what Sony does every time there's a PS3 security breach (force an upgrade that makes your PS3s worse) is really a troll, unless you think the reality is so unpleasant you just can't internalize it without dying.

I own one. My Day one 60GB PS3 is far more functional than any you can buy now.

Re:So what does Sony break next?

[geminidomino]

Why'd you quote me? I'm not taking any side in the argument. I was speaking directly to his analogy.

OH dear!

[JavaBear]

What essential function are Sony going to remove from the PS3 this time then?

Re:OH dear!

[click2005]

In a cost saving exercise Sony noticed that controllers had more buttons than needed. New controllers will only feature one directional button. To use it press the button and point the controller in the direction you want to move.

Re:OH dear!

[Lordpidey]

Only one directional movement? Whew, I can still play FFXIII

We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Hojima]

Why the hell is it called jail breaking when applying these modifications? It should have nothing to do with jail, and you're certainly not breaking it. I say, hence forth, we call it 'freedom upgrading'.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer to call it a 'Consumer's Rights Rebalancing'.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[The End Of Days]

Call it "free entertainment" and try to be the littlest bit honest.

LOL homebrew. LOL backups.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[LordLucless]

Because by default with these appliances, they treat you as an imprisoned criminal, restricting your freedom. The spin you're trying to put on it is already the basis of the original term.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Osgeld]

I dont know about the PS3, I refuse to pay previously 2 car payments and now 1 for a 6 year old gimped pc, but on the PSP 80% of its usefulness came from home brew, cause shit, what else were you going to do with it and its maybe 6 decent games?

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[eclectro]

Call it "free entertainment" and try to be the littlest bit honest.....LOL homebrew. LOL backups.

LOL at the army that has bought thousands of PS3s.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

It was called a jailbreak on the iphone because it was said you were stuck in a chroot 'jail' because of the sandbox.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[EdIII]

I don't care if it is 100% "free entertainment". It is, always has, and always will be about freedom, liberty, and their crucial components, privacy and anonymity.

The PS3 is merely one small battle. The poster that said "Consumer Rights Rebalancing" had it right. This is very much about consumer rights, however, it should be about a larger issue. Rights all Americans, and free human beings, should have in cyberspace. That war is being fought with people largely ignorant of the whole affair or how important it is.

Let's face it. It would be far easier if the situation were explained thusly:

Sony, for the consideration of $600, and service fees, offers the consumer a PS3 entertainment console. There will be a Sony representative physically in your home at all times. Sony will decide what games will function, and what will not, at Sony's direct discretion at all times. All media, All software, All content is the direct property of Sony and can be altered or withdrawn at any time. Any services or features that were present at the time of purchase are not guaranteed to be present in the future. Attempts to remove the Sony representative from your home, or distract him from his official duties, in any way, is against the law and you will be prosecuted to its full extent. Guilt before innocence will be assumed in all cases.

Now, if you were offered that deal, would you accept it? No? Then why is DRM and protection mechanisms designed to take away your ability to peacefully enjoy your property any more acceptable?

I will stipulate that 100% of PS3 owners will commit copyright infringement. It still does not justify that Sony representative being in your house and your inability to actually enjoy the rights of property ownership over property you actually paid for.

The ends do not justify the means here. That goes not just for Sony, but for every manufacturer and content distributor. Stay. The. Fuck. Out. Of. My. Home.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[radicalpi]

Because, the people releasing these hacks go to jail, while Sony breaks their own console trying to stop it from happening. ;)

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it comes from the term "chroot jail".

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

Stay. The. Fuck. Out. Of. My. Home.

Perhaps you shouldn't even let them into your house in the first place? To make an analogy, if someone beats you up in your own home, that person is at fault, but you're a complete idiot if you actually let such a person enter your house. Instead of wasting your time and energy trying to change the person/company, maybe you should simply pursue more meaningful hobbies and let such jerks die off on their own? What, you can't find a nice open computer/person to have a relationship with? Um... ok I'll stop with the analogy now.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Darkness404]

The problem is the government. Left in a free market, consumers and corporations will balance each other out to the benefit of the consumer. In a truly free market Sony can do whatever DRM scheme it wants and anyone can break it without any legal hurdles. The government is what is preventing this, thanks to tyrannical legislation such as the DMCA.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[kirbysuperstar]

I was wondering where all my tin-foil went.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[EdIII]

Yeah..... no.

Tin Foil is about a conspiracy. Usually, when you walk into your home and find all of it missing, it involves some dude talking about Aliens, copious amounts of alcohol, and an abused anus in hazily recollected experiences aboard "space craft".

I am just passionate about human rights and the Constitution, and what a truly free and advanced society needs to operate. I have not mentioned anything about V style reptilians in the government, crop circles, Area 51, or the triumvirate that was headed by the Colonel (with his wee beady eyes) putting chemicals in the 20 piece buckets that made you crave it fortnightly, you smart ass.

One does not need continuous supplies of tin foil to be against DRM and laws that prevent you from removing it. The idea of truly owning your equipment and doing with whatever you want is hardly a controversial idea. If that is worthy of Tin Foil, then our founding fathers must have had suits made out of it.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[wmbetts]

I broke my wii for homebrew. Guess what I did. I made a simple game for my daughter. It had nothing to do with "free entertainment".

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[xero314]

Could you please provide verifiable real world examples of the free market working to the benefit of the consumer?

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

I soft modded my Wii purely so I could watch DVDs after my DVD player broke. I've also downloaded some homebrew. I still bought all my games afterwards.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Darkness404]

Lets see here, for one the computer market. Computers keep getting faster, cheaper, have more features, etc. based solely on consumer demand. A basic desktop no longer costs $1,000+, laptops can be found for $300 commonly, etc. Look at robotics, what was seen as a distant, science-fiction dream, having a robot sweep your floors, can now be purchased for only a few hundred dollars in the form of a Roomba and other-type devices. Then just look at the rest of the stuff we have that we never would have dreamed we would have had as children, mini-TVs in the backs of cars, the ability for your phone to play just about any game you played as a child or teenager, the ability to store an entire library on a card the size of a fingernail, the fact that your entire CD collection can be compressed into a tiny box with speakers, the ability to watch movies in -real- 3D that doesn't look messed up like with the old red/blue glasses, the fact that you can use video chat to talk to anyone, anywhere in the world and see them in pretty close to real time, what about the fact that you don't even need a paper map anymore you type in any address anywhere in the country and your GPS can give you pretty accurate directions of how to get there (they still need an "avoid the ghetto" option though), what about the fact that we no longer have to wait for film to develop, or even lug around a bulky camera, we can instead capture those moments and send them around the world with a cell phone, what about the fact that we've gone from blurry-barely-recognizable black and white TV to crystal-clear HDTV? Etc.


And to think that all of that is pretty much attainable for anyone living in the west. Yes, I know, not all of it was fully developed by corporations and some of the underlying technologies were developed by universities, but the fact still remains that they are only attainable at a low cost because of the (somewhat) free-market that we have. And yes, I know, some people would like everything to be free. Ever. And they'd just love it for everything to be sold for exactly what it costs, but the fact remains, we've gotten so much in the last few years from the free market, had those economic benefits not been there, our lives would be profoundly worse off.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[MichaelKristopeit200]

"we" don't call it jailbreaking.

the marketeers posting stories and manipulating the commenting system use the term "jailbreaking" to criminalize any act of undoing the work of a corporation done solely to prevent its customers from doing something they would otherwise want to do.

slashdot = stagnated.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Beelzebud]

You're ignoring the fact that the people who lobbied for the DMCA to be enshrined in law were companies like Sony!

They don't want a truly free market, because no one forces them to use DRM and yet they do it on their own. You can whine about "tyrannical" legislation, however you're blaming only part of the problem. I don't think companies like Sony were lobbying against the DMCA...

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

I do wonder... It's quite possible we'd just end up like Korea or China where the "gaming" industry produces mostly MMOs since it's the only easy method of stopping copyright violations. I suppose on whether or not one should even bother to break DRMs instead of only rewarding "good" companies is going to be a matter of agreeing to disagree.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[shutdown -p now]

I made a simple game for my daughter. It had nothing to do with "free entertainment".

Au contraire, it has everything to do with free entertainment, since neither you nor your daughter have paid anything for that game, and (hopefully) it keeps her entertained!

And while I'm sure that some Nintendo executive choke about it, there's absolutely nothing wrong about that.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[cyber-vandal]

Really? You think Sony won't sue you for breaching of the EULA you agreed to when you bought the console?

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[toriver]

Yes, but they run Linux, and probably continue to do so. The removal of the OtherOS feature was an option, PS3s dedicated to running as a Linux cluster have no reason to contact the PS Network.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[RCL]

I experienced free market in 1990s on some obsolete home computer platform (ZX Spectrum & clones), which happened to gain mass popularity in my country (Russia). Nobody respected any copyrights back then and there was little possibility to use legal means to fight the pirates.

This (quite logically) resulted in a free-for-all situation: consumer-unfriendly DRM (as we would say these days), e.g. games released on floppies which didn't work at all for 10-25% of legal customers because of dirty tricks used for copy protection, no shareware, games being cracked and then re-DRMed for benefit of the cracker - who often broke something in the process (because play-testing took too much time), etc. What's worse, often you could only buy cracked (and broken) version of the game, because original version was not distributed in your region (unless by means of extremely slow and unreliable mail delivery).

So I'd say that less regulation results in more restrictions for end users and more DRM, not less. It also further skewes the situation so average user is totally helpless against large "software distributors" (cracking groups) who could force every kind of DRM on him (yes, you could theoretically crack their protection and re-distribute more user-friendly version, but you cannot compete with throughput and skill of organized crackers who are supplied by dedicated suppliers).

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

Will you stop bleating on about a "free market". There never has been one, and never well.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[RCL]

Actually, there's a third way. Russian gamedev, although not as prominent as western one, manages to live off of much lesser profit margins because PC games (even Western ones) are usually sold for about 10 USD per disc (pirates go even lower, for 2-3 USD per disc, but their quality signicantly differ). This probably wouldn't justify multimillion dollar investments which are currently poured on western gamedev projects, but, having first-hand experience in that industry, I'd say that these money is badly invested anyway (the same situation as in film industry): i.e. you get real work done for maybe 50% of the money, while the rest is wasted on overhead and unnecessary luxury.

Maybe this luxury is essential in attracting certain kinds of people and the overhead is inevitable given how young gamedev business still is, but current situation doesn't look sustainable for me. I believe that lowering both prices and expenses would result in much healthier industry.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[drinkypoo]

Why the hell is it called jail breaking when applying these modifications? It should have nothing to do with jail, and you're certainly not breaking it. I say, hence forth, we call it 'freedom upgrading'.

That is too cumbersome. How about simply "freeing"? Simple, tells the story, has a few too many vowels in the middle for some people to figure out, but you can't please everyone. Barring that (pun intended) I propose "unlocking" for all forms of "jailbreaking" because it's something the average person can understand, they're familiar with locks and keys. The device is locked and you want to be able to open it and fool around inside.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you're breaking out of the commercial 'prison' that you bought your way into when you purchased the device? /. tends to refer to it as the walled garden - but a garden with 4 high walls is only different from a jail in that it has no roof (and some flowers :P). It's a euphemism, whereas jail would be an over-reaction.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

Call it "free entertainment" and try to be the littlest bit honest.....LOL homebrew. LOL backups.

LOL at the army that has bought thousands of PS3s.

Why LOL? I have dozens of them in use right now at a Navy command and these upgrades don't affect us at all. Why do I care what they add to the XMB when all I care about is the pre-existing cluster we have already built? I'm not forced to upgrade and I don't need to.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[wmbetts]

I guess in the since I created it myself it was free. I was thinking "free entertainment" referred to pirated games, because of the use of quotes and LOL BACKUPS after it.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I have absolutely no problems with Sony/Apple/Microsoft/Nintendo locking down their consoles, and I have no problems with hackers trying to break the lockdowns.

Consumers have rights but what we forget is that so do producers.

  I think that the DMCA makes a certain amount of sense from a producer's standpoint and in the console hacking field, it's often not wielded like a cudgel against independent homebrew developers. Which is why when it turns out someone was arrested and raided for modding consoles, I usually don't care; they were modding consoles for profit. Which I think is absolutely wrong. Profiting so that way you can bypass copyright protections with methods largely developed by the homebrew not-for-profit scene is profiting off of not just the home brew scene's work but also the console developer's(Even more obscene is charging $100 to run purplera1n or rooting certain easy to root android devices given just how fucking dead simple it is; local chain of cell phone accessories stores does such a thing). Beyond that, it's in MY best interest that Sony does it because I enjoy playing games online and online cheating makes the experience just not fun.

On the other hand, homebrew scenes produce a lot of really cool stuff. XMBC, HDloader for PS2, IRshell for psp... all really cool shit, and I think that consumers should have the right to engage in that fight with content and hardware producers.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[EdIII]

Consumers have rights but what we forget is that so do producers.

Wrong.

Like I said, the ends do not justify the means. Everything you said is irrelevant and an exceedingly poor justification for the violation of our rights, whether or not it is true.

Consumers have rights, but the just what are the rights you are attempting to deliver to the producers?

1) They can be in our private homes. Know what content we are enjoying at any one time, by virtue of the fact, they need to authorize it first. Our ability to enjoy purchased content is truly at their discretion. They go out of business and can no longer run the authorization servers for us? We're fucked. Plain and Simple. They decide that a particular piece of content is no longer wanted? Removed. Just like Amazon did with their Kindle and 1984.

2) They can sell us equipment while still retaining ownership rights over it. You don't find that anywhere else. Court cases struck down bullshit like that in the Auto industry when they were trying to control after market purchasing decisions. Same in the Telco industry decades ago when they both sold the phones and then tried to control what could connect to them.

The only exception to #2 (if you could call it that) is when the equipment is leased. There are plenty of examples of this. Pitney-Bowes postage machines. Very clearly it says on the device that it is leased equipment. Same with some high end routers and security products. They lease it to you, because in a business setting, businesses don't put up with that clearly insane bullshit. They have to lease it, otherwise it would never stand up in court their attempts to control the equipment remotely.

You are saying that because "piracy" exists and that it allegedly hurts the producers profits (not every instance of piracy could be converted to a sale), that we can deliver rights to producers that would be considered insane in the physical world.

No. Producers do not deserve those rights and they are extremely harmful to the consumer and create a precedence that is going to be deadly to our rights in cyberspace.

But you go ahead. Buy into their arguments. Agree that the "hackers" can continue to break the lockdowns, while the corporations lobby to make it illegal. By the way, why is it okay to break the lockdowns in the first place? That seems to be contradictory. If they are correct to break the lockdowns, then should not the lockdowns have never existed?

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Wrong

Producers don't have rights? No copyright no likeness rights, no rights at all? Are you SURE of that?

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

As they begin to fail, are you just going to shrink your cluster? Guess you'll need to start DMSMS procedures, because you can't buy new ones! You don't need to upgrade, but boy, it's be helpful for longevity of your cluster if you could downgrade!

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

You paid in labor. Value your time.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed, but try explaining that to all the simple-minded fuck monkey consumers that are making googly eyes at OnLive, which is nothing more than glorified DRM for the stupid. Freedom fighters have their work cut out for them.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[EdIII]

Sure? I'm positive.

In the context of your post, you are NOT talking about copyrights, but OTHER rights you clearly are willing to grant them.

Copyrights are temporary rights granted to producers. Nowhere in copyright law does it grant the holder the rights you clearly feel comfortable with giving them.

DRM is particularly outside of the scope and intent of copyright law as it grants permanent copyrights (which is not what was intended and harmful to society). Additionally, the enforcement and implementation of DRM allows producers to violate the privacy and anonymity of the citizenry, which should be held sacrosanct. Less important, is the effect that DRM has on property rights. When the producers get to have such fundamental control over the equipment I purchased, it ceases to be my equipment but a perverted and offensive rental of their equipment. Copyright law never intended THAT either.

Where does copyright law say they get to control how I read the book? What shelf I place it on? What room I can read it in? Where does copyright law say that the producers can decide to remove the book from my house, once they "sold" it to me, simply because they want to do so?

So... yes.. I will say it once again.... WRONG. Those rights don't exist, nor should they.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Where does copyright law say they get to control how I read the book? What shelf I place it on? What room I can read it in? Where does copyright law say that the producers can decide to remove the book from my house, once they "sold" it to me, simply because they want to do so?

they don't. Buy dead tree, buy from an online store that has no DRM. But they do get to decide what software they put on their device before they sell it to you. They do get to decide what's in their best interest too. I'm not trying to necessarily defend the right of large multinational corporations to screw us, I'm just saying that the DRM fight and the rhetoric for openness has gotten absurd and childish. Yes, you can't run whatever code you want on your shiny new toy. Maybe there's a reason for it; and maybe it's not because they want to screw you out of your rights. Maybe they're trying to protect their own interests by locking out priates, and protect the interests of the average consumer who doesn't like the idea of doing their own technical support on their own time or deal with cheaters online. Sony, Apple, Nintendo and Microsoft aren't forcing you to buy their hardware or software.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[xero314]

Way to go ahead and prove my obviously way to subtle sarcastic comment. You used two examples that are so riddled with governmental involvement that it's hard to even say there was a free market involved.

The technology research that has allowed the most major improvements in computer performance (beyond the obvious die shrinking) was funded almost entirely by public funds granted by governmental involvement. This was through both research grants to universities, and governmental contracts for organizations such as the Department of Defense. Mind you I see that you accept that this was highly influenced by public money and not a free market.

HDTV on the other hand is so far removed from the free market it's laughable. HDTV exists outside of the homes of the ultra rich for one reason and one reason only. Governmental mandate, and redistribution of wealth in the form of government granted rebates. The cost of entry would have been too high to consider if the switch was not mandated by the government.

I'm sure I could easily pick apart the other examples as well, but no mater what my original questions still stands, "Could you please provide verifiable real world examples of the free market working to the benefit of the consumer?"

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[EdIII]

they don't. Buy dead tree, buy from an online store that has no DRM

You missed my point there. You agree they don't have those rights, but in the same breath say don't buy DRM. I was talking about the rights that are given to them by their control of the hardware, which is not DRM in every case.

But they do get to decide what software they put on their device before they sell it to you.

I have never said differently. The operative word there being BEFORE.

They do get to decide what's in their best interest too.

Not when it violates our rights and is not in society's best interests. We all get to decide to do what is in our best interests in accordance with the law. You could say that a man raping women every day was only acting in his best interests, but the laws we created say that he can't do that.

I'm not trying to necessarily defend the right of large multinational corporations to screw us,

Oh, but you are.

I'm just saying that the DRM fight and the rhetoric for openness has gotten absurd and childish.

Absurd? Childish? My wish for them to adhere to current copyright law can be described as such? My wish to have full rights of property ownership is both absurd and childish?

Yes, you can't run whatever code you want on your shiny new toy.

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Soooooo W.R.O.N.G

This has already been decided in other industries like I said before. The Auto industry used to try this bullshit to keep you from buying after market parts from anyone but them. The Telco industry used to try to control what you could connect up to "their" equipment, which was really yours because it was a sale, not a lease.

The Telco bullshit went to the Supreme Court.

You are dead wrong here. I CAN run whatever code I want on any piece of equipment I own. That statement is consistent with the ideals of Freedom and Liberty AND case law AND PRECEDENCE ESTABLISHED IN MANY OTHER CASES.

Maybe there's a reason for it; and maybe it's not because they want to screw you out of your rights. Maybe they're trying to protect their own interests by locking out priates, and protect the interests of the average consumer who doesn't like the idea of doing their own technical support on their own time or deal with cheaters online.

The ends do not justify the means here. You obviously feel it is reasonable to abridge the rest of our rights to serve their interests, which you find reasonable.

NONE OF IT JUSTIFIES THE VIOLATION OF OUR RIGHTS. PERIOD.

I don't know how many times I can say the ends don't justify the means here. The same logic you put forth here is what has allowed the government to screw us over with FISA, allowed water boarding, and allowed the terrible abuses after the Patriot Act.

Let me blunt. Even 10,000 people dead, or 100,000 people dead will not convince me to give up my rights. It will convince me to drop some bombs and go to war, but not to give up my rights.

I don't operate on fear here. That is precisely what you are proposing. Fear that these companies will lose profits and that fear justifying the loss of my rights.

Sony, Apple, Nintendo and Microsoft aren't forcing you to buy their hardware or software.

Wrong. They are. It's called collusion. This is why there needs to be government regulations the other way which outlaws DRM, or at the very least, makes it completely legal for me to put whatever software I want on MY HARDWARE.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I have never said differently. The operative word there being BEFORE.

Which implies they have the right to load a locked down OS that only takes their OS updates, and their signed and encrypted binaries.

Not when it violates our rights and is not in society's best interests. We all get to decide to do what is in our best interests in accordance with the law. You could say that a man raping women every day was only acting in his best interests, but the laws we created say that he can't do that.

Yes, and laws we've created says that what Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Apple/et al. is doing is right. It's the DMCA. I think that it's wrong to punish hackers who want to break the system open, but, the system shouldn't be, as a requirement, open.

Absurd? Childish? My wish for them to adhere to current copyright law can be described as such? My wish to have full rights of property ownership is both absurd and childish?

Yes, it's absurd and childish. Later on in this post you cite FISA and the USA PATRIOT ACT. That's a tad absurd.

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Soooooo W.R.O.N.G

This has already been decided in other industries like I said before. The Auto industry used to try this bullshit to keep you from buying after market parts from anyone but them. The Telco industry used to try to control what you could connect up to "their" equipment, which was really yours because it was a sale, not a lease.

The Telco bullshit went to the Supreme Court.

You are dead wrong here. I CAN run whatever code I want on any piece of equipment I own. That statement is consistent with the ideals of Freedom and Liberty AND case law AND PRECEDENCE ESTABLISHED IN MANY OTHER CASES.

Except you're talking about very disparate industries with different products and services. There is absolutely NO requirement that a device vendor that sells something with a general purpose CPU allow that general purpose CPU do whatever the user wants it to do. None.

The ends do not justify the means here. You obviously feel it is reasonable to abridge the rest of our rights to serve their interests, which you find reasonable.

NONE OF IT JUSTIFIES THE VIOLATION OF OUR RIGHTS. PERIOD.

I don't know how many times I can say the ends don't justify the means here. The same logic you put forth here is what has allowed the government to screw us over with FISA, allowed water boarding, and allowed the terrible abuses after the Patriot Act.

Let me blunt. Even 10,000 people dead, or 100,000 people dead will not convince me to give up my rights. It will convince me to drop some bombs and go to war, but not to give up my rights.

I don't operate on fear here. That is precisely what you are proposing. Fear that these companies will lose profits and that fear justifying the loss of my rights.

You have no rights to run arbitrary code on electronic machines.

None.

Your comparison between my justification behind this and why we went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan, FISA Abuse, detainee torture and other war atrocities is childish, AND absurd(See? I was right).

You're being an entitled little brat.

You think that it's okay to abridge my privilege to play Gran Turismo with out worrying about online cheating in honor of your imaginary right to run arbitrary code.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[EdIII]

Which implies they have the right to load a locked down OS that only takes their OS updates, and their signed and encrypted binaries.

Annnd? I never said they don't have that right. I said they don't have a right to prevent me from modifying it or removing it. Truth be told, they could load NOTHING on it, and I could still buy it, and load anything I want to.

Yes, and laws we've created says that what Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Apple/et al. is doing is right. It's the DMCA. I think that it's wrong to punish hackers who want to break the system open, but, the system shouldn't be, as a requirement, open.

.

WE did not create it. Lobbyists created it and got it passed with the whores in Congress. You think it is wrong to punish the hackers? THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE FUCKING THING!!!!!!!!!! There is nothing else to the DMCA but punishing people from fully owning their own hardware.

Make up your mind.

Yes, they have the right to load software that prevents me from fully owning the device. They further took rights from me that are not in accordance with the ideals that founded this nation. I am not proposing a law that effectively mandates open source (not right now), but I am opposing laws that prevent me from loading open source software onto MY hardware.

Yes, it's absurd and childish. Later on in this post you cite FISA and the USA PATRIOT ACT. That's a tad absurd.

You Sir, are an Idiot. Look up the fucking definition of absurd: "inconsistent with reason or logic or common sense"

You are saying that copyright reform and demands for copyright adherence is without reason? That demands to fully own your own hardware are without reason? Well Golly Gee Willickers! I guess those folks on the Supreme Court that ruled against the Telcos were bat shit crazy, because that is EXACTLY what they did.

Being pissed off about FISA and the Patriot Act is absurd? What the hell is wrong with you? Seriously? The U.S Government unlawfully wire tapping U.S Citizens and my subsequent complaints about the unconstitutional behavior are to be considered absurd?

Bullshit.

You can say that your fear allowed you to make a rational decision to give up your rights, but don't you dare sit there and tell me I am absurd to complain when I don't agree to give up mine.

The Patriot Act is included. How on Earth could you believe that threatening people with jail if they dare talk about a subpoena is behavior befitting an advanced, free, and allegedly democratic society? The Patriot Act was an abomination.

We gave up rights out of fear and I am absurd for bringing that up when it is perfectly relevant to the conversation?

Except you're talking about very disparate industries with different products and services. There is absolutely NO requirement that a device vendor that sells something with a general purpose CPU allow that general purpose CPU do whatever the user wants it to do. None.

Different industries does not matter. One industry does not get to violate our rights over another. The technology is meaningless here.

Once again, you are confusing the issue (perhaps on purpose). The manufacturers are not obligated to create a piece of equipment that does whatever the user wants it to do. Theoretically, it would be in their interests to do so to entice the user to make the purchase.

What is at issue is their attempts to obstruct me from loading whatever code I want to onto the device. I will stipulate they don't have to write the code, but they cannot stop me from doing so myself.

Your comparison between my justification behind this and why we went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan, FISA Abuse, detainee torture and other war atrocities is childish, AND absurd(See? I was right).

Your still an idiot and missing the point. You ARE operating out of fear. THAT is the POINT.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

What is at issue is their attempts to obstruct me from loading whatever code I want to onto the device. I will stipulate they don't have to write the code, but they cannot stop me from doing so myself.

Sony isn't breaking your door down to stop you. They didn't to GeoHot, nor did they go after sjeep, or Dark-aleX. They didn't to anyone but the assholes who sold a flimsy non-upgradable microcontroller as a USB stick for $100 a pop to enable piracy on their machines.

But they sure as hell are going to release firmwares that fix flaws with their OS.

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[EdIII]

I noticed you did not respond to me calling you out on the "but he is cheating during our online game" defense for elimination of property ownership rights and abuses of current copyright law........ :)

Anyways....... *sigh*...

Sony does not have to break my door down. They have jack booted thugs in the government to do that for them. Or did you forget about the court case (thrown out thank god) against the guy who was putting in mod chips into XBOX360s?

Sony, along with others, used their rather large wallets compared to the average consumer to purchase a law that says what GeoHot, sjeep, and Dark-AleX did is illegal and can be prosecuted. Furthermore, just using their knowledge to bypass the DRM on your own hardware is also illegal. According to the DMCA. Regardless, that it is unconstitutional and not in accordance with clearly established precedence that supports the full property ownership rights of the citizenry.

Guess what? Manufacturers that don't even have media on their devices are attempting to use copyright, and the DMCA, to make it illegal to change out their firmware. So we are not even talking about bypassing a DRM system. Just loading a different firmware is to be protected under the same guise.

You may, or may not remember that. That court case was essentially lost too and a special exception was given as long the "hack" was for the purposes of unlocking your phone. Progress I guess... You may have been ranting about those fucking cheaters while this happened.

So you are wrong about that too. They are doing their damnedest to break down people's doors.

But they sure as hell are going to release firmwares that fix flaws with their OS.

Ok... let's explore that one a bit....

1) No problem with Sony offering firmware that fixes flaws on their hardware, at the option of the consumer. Whether it be a Netgear router, Cisco router, Sonicwall (which also has auto-update) router, HP printers, Brother printers, Toshiba eStudio printers, VOIP phones, Blackberry Smartphones, practically the entire HTC product line, managed switches, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.,.... they are all voluntary and offered as a courtesy to ostensibly increase the value of their products and foster good will with the consumer.

2) Only Sony were complete fucking dicks and removed a popular feature, that had nothing to do with a flaw. Just you watch. That's a class action lawsuit waiting to happen. If GE came into my home and removed the fucking popcorn feature on my microwave after I paid for it you can bet I would have something (rightfully) to say about that too. So why does Sony get the pass?

Of course, I guess forced firmware updates, the Other OS option being removed (clearly a flaw there) is okay as long as you can play your game without others cheating right?

A more selfless man I have never met.... Merry X-Mas.

P.S - I am writing a paper about how, in fact, you are the very center of the universe. 0,0,0,0 in fact. I did also write my congressmen and senator today about an amendment to the Constitution that clearly stipulates that all rights and laws are only valid as long as Ryuuzaki Tetsuya can still play his precious Gran Turismo without other people cheating. I also proposed a special emergency funding provisioning (we can take the money from children's healthcare) to form a special division of the FBI to find those dishonorable cheaters and give them a wicked Swirly, or Atomic Wedgie, at your discretion. I am working on the website for you right now....

Re:We should follow the example of Stephen Colbert

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I noticed you did not respond to me calling you out on the "but he is cheating during our online game" defense for elimination of property ownership rights and abuses of current copyright law........ :)

Because I was busy at work, and I had a few minutes while I was waiting for mysqldump to do it's thing. Your entire thesis that this is eroding our freedoms and liberties is nonsense. Ironically(or not), my PS3 has to update to 3.55 so I can play GT5(which has to upgrade to 1.03), so I've got a few minutes.

Sony does not have to break my door down. They have jack booted thugs in the government to do that for them. Or did you forget about the court case (thrown out thank god) against the guy who was putting in mod chips into XBOX360s?

Yes, because he was selling things that allowed people to copy games. that's why the pursued the case. However, the case was sloppily put together, the evidence they gathered violated state and local laws, not to mention improperly collecting evidence in general. Did you even read the story or did you see, "Xbox modder set free" and start masturbating yourself into a frenzy of a lolbertarian nonsensical frenzy in joy of taking down the evil man?

Guess what? Manufacturers that don't even have media on their devices are attempting to use copyright, and the DMCA, to make it illegal to change out their firmware. So we are not even talking about bypassing a DRM system. Just loading a different firmware is to be protected under the same guise.

What the fuck does this even mean? Of course they don't. it's a fucking disc that can be read and copied. The real threat is making the damn thing run. Sony has learned it's lesson(judging by the drive flashing schemes for the 360, Microsoft clearly fucking hasn't) and tightened down the OS.

You may, or may not remember that. That court case was essentially lost too and a special exception was given as long the "hack" was for the purposes of unlocking your phone. Progress I guess... You may have been ranting about those fucking cheaters while this happened.

So you are wrong about that too. They are doing their damnedest to break down people's doors.

Again, what the hell does this nonsense even mean? The DMCA exception for jailbreaking wasn't connected to a court case, it was an edict by the library of congress, who's in charge of the finer points of copyright, that lifted the "ban" on jailbreaking your phone. Which I agree with. You're either a clever troll or so deeply entrenched in your own nonsense that you're not even coherent anymore.

1) No problem with Sony offering firmware that fixes flaws on their hardware, at the option of the consumer. Whether it be a Netgear router, Cisco router, Sonicwall (which also has auto-update) router, HP printers, Brother printers, Toshiba eStudio printers, VOIP phones, Blackberry Smartphones, practically the entire HTC product line, managed switches, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.,.... they are all voluntary and offered as a courtesy to ostensibly increase the value of their products and foster good will with the consumer.

Yes and?

2) Only Sony were complete fucking dicks and removed a popular feature, that had nothing to do with a flaw. Just you watch. That's a class action lawsuit waiting to happen. If GE came into my home and removed the fucking popcorn feature on my microwave after I paid for it you can bet I would have something (rightfully) to say about that too. So why does Sony get the pass?

Wait, popular? [citation needed]

Further more, a popcorn feature's a trivial feature on a microwave, much like PS3's Other OS function.

They removed the feature because not many people were using it, and they probably found a flaw that would've been too expensive to fix. They stopped bothering with Linux on the PS3 with the Slim. It wasn't drivi

Interesting scorekeeping

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, didn't Sony evade hackers for several years until it's finally cracked now? How is that hackers 2 Sony 0?

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[hedwards]

My guess is that because until that first serious attempt nobody had really bothered to try. It seems a bit suspicious that it's easier to defeat the protection now than it was initially.

The more likely explanation is that it nobody was really trying very hard previously, but now that Sony has taken away a lot of the initial functionality from the PS3 there's a lot more interest in putting the options back that the device was sold based on.

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[Osgeld]

cause not that many people cared until sony started fucking around with its users, Its kind of like you buy a car with a decent stereo system in it, but one day GM just shows up and removes it while telling you to stick it up your ass

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[LrdDimwit]

Furthermore, how can you possibly call the score 2-0 for the hackers? Sony closed the first hole! If the hackers score a point when they poke a hole in Sony's defenses, shouldn't Sony score for closing said hole? And shouldn't Sony ALSO score points for preventing the holes from being found in the first place? A game where you can only ever tie your opponent is no fun, after all. Although I suppose that would be an interesting metaphor for the war they're waging now; you can never win, all you can hope to do is not lose.

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[Aladrin]

It's probably a combination of that and the fact that it's easier to find holes once you've already got one. People can now look at a hacked PS3 (with the lower firmware) and examine it for other holes. Then they can try those new holes on the latest firmware.

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[Ant P.]

First hole? You mean the one where people paid $599 for something advertised as Linux-compatible, which turned out to be a bait-and-switch scam?

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[toriver]

How was it a scam? At some point Sony decided that too many people were exploiting the OtherOS feature for piracy, and made people choose between using the PS3 for Linux OR for games by disabling the feature in a firmware update the user could choose not to install, even adding a stern warning as part of the upgrade process.

I am sure they considered the effect of the decision on piracy numbers to be worth the nerd rage directed at them from the minority running Linux. (Who still had that option provided they gave up using services that required the firmware upgrade).

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[Troed]

At some point Sony decided that too many people were exploiting the OtherOS feature for piracy

You mean, zero? That's the amount of people who were exploiting OtherOS for piracy when Sony removed the functionality.

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you know that no one was pirating? The PS3 is pitched and sold as a gaming system/blu-ray player. Not a Linux based computer, so I'd conjecture that upto 90% is people 'jailbreaking' their PS3 are not programmers (hobbyist or professional) and so are not interested in developing anything, they will be interested in getting something for nothing for nothing, they will be the "I deserve...with no effort on my part" type of people and the sooner these people are excised from the rest of society the better

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[Troed]

Easy - the exploit done by Geohot (which was the basis for Sony's decision to remove OtherOS) was of the more academic kind. While interesting for security researchers - and most probably used by others later in creating the current crops of "jailbreaks" - there was no pirating back then and no ready made tools or software that could be used by consumers/pirates/aliens.

Feel free to research the topic if you disagree with my statement.

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[Anonymous Coward]

Because SONY are the thieves we must defend ourselves against. Imagine if every corporation saw them get away with stealing a sold feature?
Which is cheaper - offer something, sell it, then take it away, or offer something, sell it, then deal with a court case because it doesn't work right?
SONY doesn't deserve to be in an open market.

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[Ezel]

Unless you count roms run on emulators as 'piracy under OtherOS'.
But if one counts that, one is just being an ass really.

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[Eivind Eklund]

How was it a scam? At some point Sony decided that too many people were exploiting the OtherOS feature for piracy, and made people choose between using the PS3 for Linux OR for games by disabling the feature in a firmware update the user could choose not to install, even adding a stern warning as part of the upgrade process.

Sony sold the PS3 with the following features advertised:

1. Ability to run PS3 games, present and future
2. Ability to play online, present and future
3. Ability to play Blu-Ray movies, present and future
4. Ability to run Linux

Then they come in and force the end user to choose between either (1, 2 and 3) or (4).

Now, even if you don't use Linux, the ability to run Linux has value for the consumer. It allows for re-purposing the PS3 as a high end mediacenter (with continual software updates) after it is EOLed as a game machine, and it allows for the consumer to re-sell the PS3 to somebody that wants to run Linux - e.g, to one of the supercomputer builders.

People's ability to run Linux on non-sold PS3s has value to Sony, in the form of making higher sales. People's ability to run Linux on already sold PS3s has no value to Sony; it has negative value in the form of PS3s being occupied doing something else than running games, making Sony not earn licensing money from sales of games. It also has slight negative value in the risk that somebody could use it to pirate games, but at the time when Sony shut down OtherOS, *no game had been pirated*.

Anyway, the value was all at the consumer side - the only value Sony had left in OtherOS was that they would keep their word. They chose to steal the value from the consumers.

This is why we call it a scam: They sold something with a particular set of features. Then they stole one of the features later. It's bait and switch - but bait and switch in an even worse form.

And it is why I boycott Sony, even though I did not have an affected PS3. I don't give my money to thieves.

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean, zero? That's the amount of people who were exploiting OtherOS for piracy when Sony removed the functionality.

Depends upon what you count as piracy. I was using Linux on my PS3 to quickly transcode Bluray discs I owned to backup mkv files.

Re:Interesting scorekeeping

[nedlohs]

Because they advertised that you could both play games and run Linux on it. And some foolish people wanted to actually do both.

4 years

[gilbert644]

It took 4 years to do this. I think Sony gets a few points for that.

Re:4 years

[Osgeld]

no one was really trying that hard for 3.5 of those 4 years, until they started removing features "just because"

sony's other current gen console has been gang rapped so many times they even removed the disc drive

Re:4 years

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it took them that long to make people WANT to do it. This wasn't a problem until they removed the option to install linux. That just pissed off the wrong sort of people and/or created a huge challenge.

Re:4 years

[gilbert644]

I'm sorry but I find it doubtful that nobody was interested in modding the system purely to pirate games on it. There is a huge commercial market for that, especially in the developing world.

Re:4 years

[Osgeld]

well the developing world is not buying 600$ consoles are they? (which is what it cost up till last year)

Re:4 years

[uolamer]

well the developing world is not buying 600$ consoles are they? (which is what it cost up till last year)

Wish I had mod points. +1 Insightful

Re:4 years

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony didn't remove Umd drive from PSP because of piracy, but because UMD was dead.

Re:4 years

[feepness]

no one was really trying that hard for 3.5 of those 4 years, until they started removing features "just because"

sony's other current gen console has been gang rapped so many times they even removed the disc drive

So what features did they remove from the PSP in order to cause people to gang rap it in the first place?

Re:4 years

[Osgeld]

well I was given my psp because the owner was so bored with it due to the lack of non crap titles, I have only kept a grand total of 4 games that I like since I have had it in 2006, and there for quite a while it was my only console so I was buying and trading them in like magic cards.

so in answer to your question the feature that sony removed from the psp was quality software, something the ps1 and ps2 had no problem with

Re:4 years

[feepness]

so in answer to your question the feature that sony removed from the psp was quality software

Chicken, meet egg. It was cracked so no one bought games so no one made games so it was cracked so no one bought games so no one made games.

Re:4 years

[Osgeld]

they made plenty of games, just most of them sucked, so it was cracked so people could do something with their 200$ dust collector

besides that argument doesn't hold water, look at the DS, it was stupid easy to run homebrew and backup / pirate games, and you did not have to re crack it every firmware update. And yet it sold a ton of units along with tons of games

Sony was delusional, we are playstation there is no possible way we could have a library of suck! it must be piracy, it must be UMD, it must be blah blah blah. And when the parent is stomping around having a hissy fit how do you expect the child to act?

Re:4 years

[Anonymous Coward]

Gang rapped?
is that like G-unit or D12 or summit?

Re:4 years

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes they are, you have a very wrong idea.

Re:4 years

[feepness]

So wait, you're saying the PSP got cracked because it didn't have any good games, but the DS has a lot of good games and it's also cracked.

So why was the DS cracked?

Re:4 years

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not about the third world. It's about homebrew. Most of the people in the scene jailbreak their consoles to have access to homebrew development, not piracy.

Re:4 years

[Osgeld]

good question, but it did not stifle the creativity of the console

point is sony is looking for an excuse

it did not get cracked for nearly 4 years cause it had homebrew capability, although gimped, the remove that provision and OMFG its piracy!!!

4 years hardly, its been a large handful of months at best starting with the removal of linux on older consoles (sorry if you bought a newer one it was not in the deal) so its hardly a fair comparison, sony only gets screwed over when it screws its (limited per use) customers, and is so damn thickheaded it cant see that, the ball is unleashed sony is doomed, and fuck-em personally

Re:4 years

[Osgeld]

also I think were done here, you either beleive sony is a god like entinty who became drunk with power over its users or you thin 100% of this is piracy ignoring the fact that they have had a neo-geo for the last number of years and are reaping the rewards of being assheaded about their precious 720p AMD-XP era console and cant move on

choice is yours

Re:4 years

[feepness]

So we've established the PSP was cracked because it didn't have any good games, the PS3 is being cracked because Sony removed OtherOS, we don't know why the DS was cracked, and we haven't mentioned the PS2, Xbox, or 360.

I'm really just trying to understand all this. You've been very helpful so far, but there are a few other systems I'm not clear on with all this.

GPU Access?

[Doc Ruby]

So does this jailbreak actually let Linux installed as OtherOS run apps that can call the RSX and read/write the RSX RAM?

Jailbreakable on a PS3 with firmware v2.2 or v2.41?

Re:GPU Access?

[hedwards]

If they've truly done that on v2.5, there's no particular reason why you'd want to use older firmwares. The only people I know of that run the older ones are the people that aren't wanting to give up the features that the newer versions remove.

Re:GPU Access?

[Khyber]

No but another poster here posted a link that showed another option that allows RSX access and access to the locked-down reserve SPE.

Not confirmed

[neokushan]

This is largely unconfirmed and most likely fake - and I'll tell you why.

Check out the very end of the video, the "game" exits and a message is displayed in the top right corner. See that message? Retail consoles don't display that, but Debug/TEST consoles do. Any Debug unit can be upgraded to debug Firmware 3.50 and play all the homebrew out there.

Re:Not confirmed

[bcmm]

Maybe they found a way to make a retail PS3 think it's a debug unit?

Re:Not confirmed

[neokushan]

Technically, that's what the "jailbreak" actually does, but the retail firmware is different to the debug firmware. This is why you can "enable" a bunch of debug options in the VSH but they still don't work.

If the video is legitimate, the more likely scenario is that they've found a way to install the 3.5 debug firmware itself, rather than "jailbreak" anything. But if this was the case, the dongle probably wouldn't be needed (unless you need to "jailbreak" the retail PS3 to make it accept the debug firmware on boot).

I know someone was able to install debug firmware 2.3 onto his PS3, but I believe this was actually possible on retail PS3's that hadn't been upgraded past 2.3 anyway, then Sony started encrypting the debug firmware with a different key.

Re:Not confirmed

[Anonymous Coward]

WRONG! Debug firmwares DO NOT RUN HOMEBREW!

Re:Not confirmed

[flimflammer]

I'm also suspicious of when he's scrolling through the system settings, and then raises the controller up in front of the camera. When he pulls the controller away, he's now in a different location. Anyone who uses debug/test stations knows there's several system settings in there that don't exist on retail units. It's almost like he's covering it up while he passes them.

Re:Not confirmed

[neokushan]

[citation needed]

Re:Not confirmed

[Anonymous Coward]

It is running debug firmware. When he is about to launch the ftp server you can see the install package option with a little star next to it. That option is only on debug firmware, the little star means its a debug function.

Re:Not confirmed

[Anonymous Coward]

WRONG!!!! You can not run homebrew on a debug firmware.

Pick any 5 year old at random

[nedlohs]

out of a luddite village, hand them a 5 year old cell phone that can take video and they'll make a better video than that crap in 7.3 seconds.

Hahaha this reminds me of a comment earlier

[unity100]

a comment that one of you made in a thread under an article about ubisoft and their psychopathic approach to drm, about how their ceo or somebody said that the time of game demos were long past and they didnt think that they were going to allow them anymore.

one of you said "as long as razor1911 has anything to say about it, we will have game demos'.

this hackers : 2 sony : 0 business seems exactly the same format.

wtf is with the quality

[rs1n]

You know, for someone with enough skills to "jailbreak" their PS3, you'd think they would also be savvy enough to operate a camera and produce a quality video. I guess my expectations are a tad too high.

Hackers 2, Sony 0

[ceswiedler]

Hackers 2, Sony 0

Sony is playing defense only. Of course they don't score any points. On the other hand, they've limited the Hackers team to two points in five years, which is pretty impressive actually.

Re:Hackers 2, Sony 0

[Khyber]

Sony never limited us, we just never gave a shit until they pissed us off.

Try more along the lines of 2:0 in under a year.

Re:Hackers 2, Sony 0

[Anonymous Coward]

...Sony is playing defense only. Of course they don't score any points...

Sony hasn't "scored any points" for a long, long time.

They blew a fantastic chance to completely own the market for mp3 players. They had such a huge lead in the portable CD player market with their Walkman brand and failed to capitalize on it. Add to that the root-kit fiasco and it's easy to see that Sony brand just ain't what it used to be.

Re:2:40 minues of my life I'll never have back aga

[flimflammer]

It is pretty silly that he spends most of it wandering the menus for seemingly no reason. Could have easily shown everything that needed to be shown in like 30 seconds.

You have to be kidding me ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, so this person can jailbreak a PS3 ... but has no idea how to setup a camera stand or blur part of a video image? Don't know which was more annoying ... the breathing, the constant focusing, or the stupid block taped on the tv.

Damned Pirates!!

[nurb432]

Better get the world governments after them and shut this down! Start the smear campaign and DNS theft.

Re:Damned Pirates!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why won't PS3 hackers deny they raped and murdered a young girl in 1990?

Re:2:40 minues of my life I'll never have back aga

[blankoboy]

Are you kidding. I love listening to overweight guys breath heavily while playing one-handedly with their game controller with a completely out of focus shaky cam. 10/10!!

Re:ok .. You are an idiot

[DeadlyFoez]

You obviously don't know crap about the wii scene. The wii is the most open console right now. You can easily use a hombrew app like BlueDump to get whatever VC games you want onto an SD card in wad form. You can easily copy all of your saved games onto SD card. And hell, you can even use bushings betwiin app to convert a nand dump from one wii to be compatible on another and then EVERYTHING is there just the way you had it.

Let me fix that for you...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hackers 2 - Sony 6.

Why ?

"It doesn't matter how they talk about you as long as they do talk about you".

Another free advertisement in the world of the geek (the #1 target).

PS3 FTW :-)

Re:Let me fix that for you...

[Khyber]

Wait for that core advertisement to turn into a bloody bait-and-switch lawsuit.

Then we'll be seeing the score Hackers: 2 Sony: 6 The people : $BILLIONS.

Re:ok .. I have never been able to find the answer

[hawkingradiation]

So the playstation is capable of running Linux. My question is: what secret operating system has Sony preinstalled on the Playstation use to run all of its games? Did they build it from scratch? Was IBM involved because I never saw or heard about the kind of tools and emulator the operating system was originally designed on. Did they start from scratch on that too? It would take a lot of research and development to use the cell processor that is in the playstation. Anyone as curious as I am? I would have to think that it was based on an already existing operating system. Could it be Linux, Tron, any ideas?

I would like to meet

[TangoMargarine]

the person who can make a 2 minute, 40 second video in 7.3 seconds.

Re:I would like to meet

[nedlohs]

"better" not "the same".

Hoo-ray for piracy! Yee-hah!

[judeancodersfront]

For every 1 guy that uses this for homebrew there will be 100 that use it to pirate games so they don't have to send their money to teams of geeks (game companies) and can instead spend it on important things like car speakers or pot.

As much as geeks have a reputation for being smart they sure act like fucking idiots when it comes to doing what is in their best interest.

Re:Hoo-ray for piracy! Yee-hah!

[Anonymous Coward]

in what way is spending money on car speakers or pot not in a geeeks best interest? having pot and fancy cars are great ways for geeks to pick up loose women

Re:Hoo-ray for piracy! Yee-hah!

[neumayr]

Given game companies' reputation, I don't get how working there could be considered to be smart.

Re:Hoo-ray for piracy! Yee-hah!

[ZERO1ZERO]

spend it on important things like car speakers or pot.

this is only because speakers and pot cannot be downloaded readily. Although that soul be a wonderful thing.

Another video

[Anonymous Coward]

Another video here: http://www.ps3news.com/PS3-Hacks/Videos-Infectus-PS3-Mod-and-E3-Card-Reader-3-50-Downgrader/

Gawd, ninnies

[Anonymous Coward]

How is it that someone clever enough to jailbreak the PS3 is completely unable to operate a camcorder? Just for that I'd say it has to be a hoax. Or at least subtract two points for being.. how to put this delicately.. functionally retarded.

Re:2:40 minues of my life I'll never have back aga

[Anonymous Coward]

The bair patch project

(how fitting, the captcha is "amateurs :-P)

Your presence is requested...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1894524&cid=34444164

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

I win

[__aaqvdr516]

Me 1, Sony 0

If you don't buy from a company, you automatically win.

LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL, well played!

LMAO TheEndOfDays is a troll? And stalker online??

[Anonymous Coward]

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1891254&cid=34413838 TheEndOfDays likes stalking and trolling others (as well as starting it up as shown right there)? I like how he was put into his rightful place here in the end http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1891254&cid=34418274 where TheEndOfDays ran like the trolling little coward he really is, unable to back up his trolling and stalking crap. Now that's entertainment: Watching you run like the little online cowardly troll and online stalker you are. You like starting up hassles, but in the end, you always "eat it", LMAO. At least someone here had the good sense to mark you for what you truly are: A troll.

MW2 unplayable...

[Computershack]

I knew something must be up by the number of cheaters appearing on MW2. You could see them in Killcam scrolling through menus of cheats to use. That and the Black Ops fiasco is just another reason to sell up and get a 360.

Grounds for a Class Action Suit?

[synthespian]

HI --

If you guys are in the U.S., shouldn't you be able to file a Class Action Suit?

I mean, I too am one of those who embarked in that ship of fools, thinking I was surfing the wave of the future with my 8 Cell processors.

It'd be nice to see an international Class Action Suit (like those with breast implants, etc.)

Not to mention they ruined YellowDog's business.

I fucking hate Sony. You don't do that to customers.

And, BTW, look how they marketed the PS3...such a lame way. What they should have done was set up PS3s with Linux, demonstrating that not only you also get a Blu-Ray player but, in addition to that, get to install a cool OS so you can read your e-mail from your huge HD screen in your living room.

Sony is severely idiotic in so many ways it's pathetic.

Next time, I might just buy me an XBox.

don't buy it

[Anonymous Coward]

If this is real then X3MAX need to post proof, that and a down-loadable 3.50 firmware payload. Until then this has to be a complete fake.