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Gamers Abandoning DS, PSP In Favor of Smartphones

donniebaseball23 writes "IndustryGamers reports on new research from Interpret, which shows that more and more people are turning to their phones for game time, leaving the DS and PSP behind. 43.8% of the phone/DS/PSP gaming market plays games on phones, which represents a significant 53.2% increase over the past year. At the same time, Interpret says that the proportion of those who play on the DS or PSP has fallen by 13%. The company notes, 'Gamers appear to be defecting from their handheld gaming devices to phones to get their gaming kicks: a full 27.2% of consumers who indicate that they play games on their phones only (and not on the DS/PSP) actually own a DS or PSP, but do not actively use the device(s).' Notable games industry analyst Michael Pachter also recently commented that handhelds continue to decline and Sony's much rumored PSP2 would be 'dead on arrival' as smartphones continue to gain steam."

305 comments

  1. Sony is already working on it by devbox · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yesterday the Playstation Phone was detailed. Sony Ericsson also already has a long history with mobile phones. Now, Nintendo might be in trouble here..

    1. Re:Sony is already working on it by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 2

      I look forward to the Playstation Phone, however it should be noted that Sony Ericsson has a long history with mediocre mobile phones.

      --
      My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    2. Re:Sony is already working on it by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Right, because the phone/game console hasn't been tried before -cough- Ngage -cough-. The problem with a phone/game platform is that people have to pay a contract which takes it away from a key market: kids. No parent wants to buy their kid a $300 Ubersmartphone, pay a $40 text/call/data plan on it per month AND buy the games. Not to mention all the different operating systems that make it impractical to be a real gamer and play all the good games no matter what the platform. It is feasible for someone to own a DS and PSP, it is feasible for someone to own a Wii, PS3 and 360. It however, is impractical for most people to own an Android, Windows Mobile, Symbian, iOS and BlackBerry phone.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:Sony is already working on it by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 2

      The problem with a phone/game platform is that people have to pay a contract which takes it away from a key market: kids.

      This nails it.

      I know at least 5 kids withi DSes for every adult I know with one.

      Not to say that mobile phone gaming isn't on the rise; it clearly is -- but there are a couple key markets that, at this point, will not or cannot consider switching.

    4. Re:Sony is already working on it by nemasu · · Score: 1

      No parent wants to buy their kid a $300 Ubersmartphone, pay a $40 text/call/data plan on it per month AND buy the games.

      It's amazing how many kids have smartphones these days....really. Heck, parents might see an opportunity to buy one device instead of two....cause you know they're gonna end up buying them a PSP or whatever and a phone anyway.

      Not to mention all the different operating systems that make it impractical to be a real gamer and play all the good games no matter what the platform.

      I wouldn't really call WinMo, Symbian, and Blackberry a gaming platform. iOS is limited with no real input. Also, I'm pretty sure that the good games will be ported over to Android and vica versa since first-party games are usually the ones that you don't see on other platforms. The Playstaion phone might be ending up the exclusive games even, since Sony tends to make games from time to time. I think that, for once, Sony might have got the right idea with the Playstation Phone. That being said, there's no way I'm going to buy that thing on launch.

      --
      I made an app! Shoutium
    5. Re:Sony is already working on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The iPod Touch is perfect for this gap.

    6. Re:Sony is already working on it by alen · · Score: 1

      the games better not cost $50. i know they are generally better than iOS but most iOS games i buy are $2.99 or less. and iOS games are getting better and better. with a lot of iOS games i can buy it and forget it about. since it's so cheap i don't think about the purchase and read reviews to make sure i get value.

      i have an iPhone 3GS and last i read is that the CPU and GPU in there is faster than the PSP. the software has just not caught up yet but John Carmack and the company behind the Unreal engine have done some amazing work porting their software to iOS

    7. Re:Sony is already working on it by alen · · Score: 1

      that's why you keep the phone for yourself and once you buy a new one give the old one to your kids as an iPod touch. did it with my 3 year old. i'm guessing i can get 4-5 years of life out of every iPhone i buy

    8. Re:Sony is already working on it by mlts · · Score: 1

      The most I'd pay for a game for a phone is about $15. Square-Enix has some great RPGs for about $10 that are worth every penny for the iPhone. If people charge $50 for a game, I'm not bothering, as there are plenty of games just as good or better, most being 99 cents.

    9. Re:Sony is already working on it by alen · · Score: 1

      i paid $6.99 or so for Chaos Rings and still haven't finished it. bought a bunch of iOS games last year for $.99 each that i haven't played yet. lately i've been reading on my commute and no gaming

    10. Re:Sony is already working on it by tepples · · Score: 1

      cause you know they're gonna end up buying them a PSP or whatever and a phone anyway.

      Carriers won't sell plans with only voice and text for use with smartphones. They will sell cheap plans for dumbphones, and what Mom saves on service over two years could pay for a PSP, DS, or iPod touch.

    11. Re:Sony is already working on it by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      It's amazing how many kids have smartphones these days....really. Heck, parents might see an opportunity to buy one device instead of two....cause you know they're gonna end up buying them a PSP or whatever and a phone anyway.

      Yes, but still smartphone plans are expensive, even more so that they dropped the unlimited data on most plans. Plus, it really makes it impossible for kids to work for and pay for their own games/console. I remember that I worked for my parents all summer to save up enough money to buy a SNES when I was younger. Then as I saved up my allowance, I would eventually have enough to buy a game and hand over my money to the cashier to buy the game. Such things were rather rewarding as a kid and taught me a lot about money, something that really doesn't translate well to the world of cell phones, contracts and credit cards.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    12. Re:Sony is already working on it by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Sure, if you like being limited to only games approved and made available by Apple in the App store. (Ask any serious gamer about Apple being a real platform for gaming.) Also, sometimes I want to play some free simple flash-based games on the web. Good luck doing that on the iPod Touch.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    13. Re:Sony is already working on it by mlong · · Score: 1

      Well, it doesn't have to be a phone. Parents could buy their children android tablets (when they become mainstream)

      --
      //m
    14. Re:Sony is already working on it by nemasu · · Score: 1
      Yeah, smart phone plans are stupid, mines over $80 a month...and that's with the fewest minutes I could get.

      I remember that I worked for my parents all summer to save up enough money to buy a SNES when I was younger

      You had a SNES when you were younger?? I JUST bought one 2 days ago. (not joking)

      --
      I made an app! Shoutium
    15. Re:Sony is already working on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sure, if you like being limited to only games approved and made available by Apple in the App store.

      As opposed to games that come from a publisher who allows Nintendo to green light it and pays a large amount for the SDK? Where do these arguments come from? Sure iPhone is walled garden but the walls are much shorter and easier to climb over than Nintendo DS or PSP development.

    16. Re:Sony is already working on it by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Or you could just play on an Android device, where the walls are so short, they don't exist at all. Anybody at all can develop for Android.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    17. Re:Sony is already working on it by Binestar · · Score: 2

      Games to get: Chrono Trigger, Super Mario All Stars, Rock and Roll Racing, Super Punch Out, FFIII, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past and Pilot Wings.

      --
      Do you Gentoo!?
    18. Re:Sony is already working on it by nemasu · · Score: 1

      I got all stars, and world. looking for ff2 and 3, chrono trigger, super metroid and zelda. besides punch out, havnt heard of the rest...which i guess is just one. Nice OS choice, I do Gentoo too!

      --
      I made an app! Shoutium
    19. Re:Sony is already working on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhh, yes they will. I have a voice and text only plan on my smartphone.

    20. Re:Sony is already working on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Go for a SIM-only plan, and supply your own phone, or if they refuse to offer a SIM-only choice, get an ultra-low-end dumbphone free with contract, then swap the SIM into the good phone.

      Or do you use one of the CDMA carriers that, despite the existence of a SIM-like standard (USIM, IIRC?), refuses to implement it, just so they can control their users choice of phone, and thus (through preinstalled images) their use of the phone? Maybe you should try doing business with someone who doesn't view their customers as their rightful serfs...

    21. Re:Sony is already working on it by hedwards · · Score: 2

      The real issue isn't the GPU or the CPU, the real issue is controls. Touch screens are great for certain types of games, but for the most part they tend not to work very well for more complicated games which require more complicated controls.

      Just look at what consoles have done to the FPS genre. The controls got dumbed down and I don't personally think that there was anything much added by doing it.

      Going from a small number of buttons to basically none isn't likely to be good for gameplay on games that are more involved than casual games.

    22. Re:Sony is already working on it by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      The problem with a phone/game platform is that people have to pay a contract which takes it away from a key market: kids. No parent wants to buy their kid a $300 Ubersmartphone, pay a $40 text/call/data plan on it per month AND buy the games.

      It sure would be nice if one of the major smart phone manufacturers introduced a device with basically the same hardware as their phone, without the phone hardware and the need for a contract....

      http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/

      Not to mention all the different operating systems that make it impractical to be a real gamer and play all the good games no matter what the platform. It is feasible for someone to own a DS and PSP, it is feasible for someone to own a Wii, PS3 and 360. It however, is impractical for most people to own an Android, Windows Mobile, Symbian, iOS and BlackBerry phone.

      Yes, because Android, Windows Mobile 7, Symbian, and BlackBerry phones have so many killer games....

    23. Re:Sony is already working on it by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Sure, if you like being limited to only games approved and made available by Apple in the App store.

      Yes, because Apple has reportedly not approved such a wide variety of games....

      On top of that Nintendo and Sony have a wide open platform that anyone can developer for without requiring approval....

    24. Re:Sony is already working on it by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My six year old has one. We got it for him last year. Or more accurately, I go my new phone, and he got my old one. Having a cell phone is a great idea for a kid. By having a phone, I can give him WAY more freedom, and know that he can find us if he needs something. Once we decided to get him a phone, a smart phone only made sense. Once you are already on a family plan, extra phones just are not that expensive.

      That said, it isn't even close to a replacement for a DS. Sure, the numbers look like phones are replacing traditional hand helds, but the numbers are deceptive. In 1995, the same know of statistics could show that gamers were abandoning traditional gaming in favor of Solitaire. After all, if you polled PC users, you would find that a much larger percentage of users played Solitaire than any other PC game. We can see how, while technically true, it is implying something that isn't true.

      Could cell phones replace traditional hand held game systems? Sure they could. Just adding regular buttons would help with that a lot. As they stand now, they don't. I still think that the solution is to make a case that the phone plugs into that has the gaming buttons. This could also be offered with a keyboard instead. This way the phone maker could make one model of phone, and sell it to the "It has to be as thin as physically possible", the "it is useless without a keyboard", and the "gaming" crowds. The key is that the protocol for the devices to talk to the phone must be standardized and open, so that you don't end up with a hundred different implementations.

    25. Re:Sony is already working on it by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 2

      Except that the iPod Touch is not a phone, requires no contract, and plays the same games as the iPhone.

      Price is what is killing the game consoles. You can by a much cheaper game on iOS or Android than you can on PSP.

      More developers for the iOS and Android creates competition that do not exist on either the PSP or DS.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    26. Re:Sony is already working on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look for F-Zero, R-Type III, Axelay, ActRaiser, Aero the Acro-Bat 2, Metal Warriors, Battletoads & Double Dragon, Zombies Ate My Neighbors, Mega Man X, Castlevania IV, Ogre Battle and Terranigma.

      Also if you can find it cheap/free grab Valis IV, if only for the fantastic soundtrack.

    27. Re:Sony is already working on it by tepples · · Score: 1

      or if they refuse to offer a SIM-only choice, get an ultra-low-end dumbphone free with contract, then swap the SIM into the good phone.

      It still costs $500 for an unlocked smartphone and a "free" dumbphone, compared to $130 for a DS and a "free" dumbphone.

      Or do you use one of the CDMA carriers

      Yes. I currently have a dumbphone on Virgin Mobile USA, a Sprint company, for whose service I pay $65 per year (not month). I'm a very light caller; I use my Virgin phone to arrange rides and land lines for most everything else. If I were to switch to (say) Simple Mobile, I'd lose the roughly $300 of rollover minutes that I still have in my account, I'd have to buy a new phone (and pay return shipping and 15% restocking fee if I turn out not to like it), and I'd have to top up more often ($10 every 30 days instead of $15 every 90), costing twice as much.

      Maybe you should try doing business with someone who doesn't view their customers as their rightful serfs

      I'd love to, but I can't afford to emigrate yet.

    28. Re:Sony is already working on it by tepples · · Score: 1
      Anonymous Coward wrote:

      I have a voice and text only plan on my smartphone.

      Which carrier, which country? I live in the United States.

    29. Re:Sony is already working on it by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      Yeah, let's see what major game developers think about authoring for 400 ever-so-slightly different, ever-so-slightly incompatible Android platforms with nothing resembling market discipline.

      Face it. Apple has out-Nintendoed Nintendo, out-Sonied Sony, and out-Microsofted Microsoft. Everybody else has already gone over the cliff edge, they just haven't looked down yet.

      And I'm not saying this is a good thing.

    30. Re:Sony is already working on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      T-Mobile, United States. Unlocked GSM phone.

      AT&T also offers similar service.

    31. Re:Sony is already working on it by maugle · · Score: 1

      I, too, look forward to the Playstation Phone.

      Not to buy it, of course. It's just fun watching how many times they try to make people re-buy the same content.

    32. Re:Sony is already working on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if the price only $2.99 per game, it's ok may be i can play more game.

    33. Re:Sony is already working on it by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Uhh, yes they will. I have a voice and text only plan on my smartphone.

      But why bother having a Smartphone if you only use it as a Dumbphone? Am I missing something, or don't you need to have internet access to use the smart features?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    34. Re:Sony is already working on it by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      Except that the iPod Touch is not a phone, requires no contract, and plays the same games as the iPhone.

      Sure. It's also not designed to take as much physical abuse as a DS is.

      I don't know if you have kids, but I wouldn't give mine an iPod Touch. I'd be replacing it inside a week.

    35. Re:Sony is already working on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Internet access is not what makes a smartphone a smartphone. I can run applications (native and j2me), play music, play movies, play games (native and emulated), schedule events, take pictures, record video, record audio and listen to the radio, among other things. If I ever need internet access on it, it has wifi support. I'm not big on browsing sites on a 3 inch screen though, especially when I always have access to PCs with real screens. In fact I can't think about a single place that I regularly go to that I would need internet access at that doesn't have connected PCs. All of my friends have internet connected PCs, my favourite cafes have them, my favourite clubs and bars have them and free wifi is available almost everywhere these days. It would be quite stupid to pay extra for data on my phone.

    36. Re:Sony is already working on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, so one developer who hasn't done anything significant for 10 years prefers Apple over Android. Any other super compelling evidence you have there or is that about it?

    37. Re:Sony is already working on it by milkasing · · Score: 1

      Very few features actually are dependent on a data plan. I have a Motorola droid 1 (bought second hand for ~$150) on a voice and text plan. (although technically I do get 50mb of data in my plan.) I can get internet access through wifi. That gets me all the internet access I need for email and Facebook and basic news feeds. Most of my phone uses are offline -- My main use of my Android phone is for music (it plays flac while my itouch does not.) I also use the maps features while traveling as a GPS substitute (mapdryoid). I use the games on it often and sometimes the ereader. I would like to get a data plan, except that almost all data plans in the US are a rip off.

    38. Re:Sony is already working on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is games cost that is killing the PSP and DS. they need to setup a market place for these units and get developers on board. Even with that the high end games and kids are small part of the market now. Women are getting smart phones and snapping 99 cent games at a fast rate they any thing else.

    39. Re:Sony is already working on it by mrjimorg · · Score: 1

      We gave my 2 1/2 year old my wife's old IPhone 3G when she upgraded to an IPhone4. He loves it and takes pretty good care of it (with the occasional loosing of it in the couch). He knows it has all his shows ripped to it so he's pretty happy with it.

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    41. Re:Sony is already working on it by SmileWhor3 · · Score: 1

      Fuck that.

  2. Yea, Okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And they'll soon find that the games for smartphones are limited, and crap. Therefore moving back to their handheld consoles.

    1. Re:Yea, Okay by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 1

      Actually, phone games are getting pretty good nowadays, and some of them are pretty darn innovative when it comes to gameplay. Sure, they tend to be a lot more casual than the dedicated handheld consoles, but I think that's a bit of the appeal - to be able to pick up a game on a lunchbreak, play for 20 minutes and then text or browse the web or whatever.

      --
      My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    2. Re:Yea, Okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give me an example, Of something comparable to a Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker, or a Little Big Planet... Gran Turismo. The PSP can do all of what you mentioned, minus the texting.

    3. Re:Yea, Okay by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 1

      See, that's exactly what I mean. The smartphone games and the dedicated console games serve different markets. Smartphone games are much more casual than MGS, Or Little Big Planet, or Gran Turismo. Since I only have the iPhone, I'll just mention a few games that I know:

      1) Angry Birds - a really addictive little physics game where you launch birds out of a slingshot at structures to destroy green pigs. I've sank quite a few hours into this game.

      2) Spider: The Secret of Bryce Manor - a really interesting game that uses the touch screen to allow you to play a Spider within a deserted mansion.

      3) Labyrinth - a game that lets you control a ball through mazes with the accelerometer - can't do that on a PSP.

      There are loads more, many of which I haven't tried. I just don't think the two markets are comparable enough to say that dedicated handheld consoles are superior.

      --
      My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    4. Re:Yea, Okay by vux984 · · Score: 1

      3) Labyrinth - a game that lets you control a ball through mazes with the accelerometer - can't do that on a PSP.

      But we have been doing it on the Wii for a couple years now. Although obviously not on our lunchbreaks at work.

    5. Re:Yea, Okay by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 1

      I thought we're talking about portable handheld consoles, unless that's a Wii in your pocket...

      --
      My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    6. Re:Yea, Okay by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      I'm actually looking forward to the Android port of X-Plane coming out:
      http://x-plane.com/index_mobile.html

      But yeah, that's more of a sim than a game, but that's the kind of game I tend to like ;-)

      I wasn't that impressed by the DS... my son has one, but is always begging to play Angry Birds or something on my HTC Slide instead.
      Never touched a PSP tho, and not many recent consoles for that matter. I tend to prefer doing the "serious" games on my PC.

    7. Re:Yea, Okay by countSudoku() · · Score: 1

      I'm saying yes, and no. :) Just because I'm a prick! Seriously, many cool innovations are made possible by the new multi-touch input devices and gyros/accelerometers. HOWEVER (a big however), some game genres suffer greatly at the expense of said new input methods and devices. I can name one; driving games suck balls on the iPhone. The touch screen can't make a decent "virtual steering wheel" (slow and blocks the already tiny view) and the accelerometer-based input makes the screen tilt so much it ruins the view of driving on it. Any game that relies on the view of the screen *and* a real, separate input device (wheel, stick, buttons) can't work on a device with a touch screen. No virtual button can take the place of a real, mechanical switch on a good joystick. Mouse games, sure pointing and twisting work great. When I want to play a fast action game though, give me some buttons and a clear view of my goals.

      Also, you can tell how crappy a game's accelerometer methods are by trying to lie on your back, or side, and play the game; shit-methods break when the 'celerometer inputs expect you to be sitting upright and I consider that to be a fail for the dev. Try again you lazy douche, and give me my $1 back.

      --
      This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
    8. Re:Yea, Okay by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Add to that NOVA, Dungeon Master, the load of 3d racing games all of them gyroscope controlled, Hero of Sparta etc...
      There is enough hardcore stuff available. Heck also a load of point and click adventure games (the genre shines on the iPad)

      While the number of hardcore games especially in iOS is not that high yet you can find them, and the publishers have smelled the blood they are coming over, even Capcom and Sega already have ported some of their stuff.

    9. Re:Yea, Okay by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      I'm actually liking the multiplayer smartphone games...

      Sketch Online : pictionary (though occasionally marred by penis)

      Zombie, Run! : take your GPS and run away from the random hordes of advancing zombie icons on your map. It will be really neat once someone does a Layar augmented reality version of this... maybe with weapon drops so you can actually shoot back once in a while.

      {chess checkers othello etc.} online

    10. Re:Yea, Okay by tepples · · Score: 1

      I thought we're talking about portable handheld consoles

      Super Monkey Ball has been out for a long time on DS, though it is based on rubbing rather than tilting the system.

    11. Re:Yea, Okay by 228e2 · · Score: 2

      Wow, you guys are missing the point.

      No sh1t a smartphone is limited! But no one wants to lug around a phone, a PC, a camera, mp3 player, a pager, kindle and a PS3!! Hello! Thats why its practical to buy a $300 phone in lieu of a nice phone/camera/etc. Im honestly bewildered that this concept is such a surprise or if all the dissenters have Sony stock.

      --
      Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
    12. Re:Yea, Okay by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      But no one wants to lug around a phone, a PC, a camera, mp3 player, a pager, kindle and a PS3!!

      No one would lug around all those devices at once, of course, but I could see someone bringing along at least two of those devices at any one time, depending on their interests. The issue at hand is mostly one of the tradeoffs in both functionality and form-factor when creating an all-in-one devices. For instance, fewer people want clunky game-type pushbuttons and a dpad on their phone, and many games absolutely require these for any sort of serious gameplay.

      It's the same reason why I still prefer my Kindle for reading, the iPad for web-browsing, my high-end digital camera for photography (ok, it's hypothetical, but the point stands). I think the dedicated mp3 player and pagers will go away except for ultra-tiny dedicated devices (again, a form-factor issue). If I don't anticipate using the devices, then the smartphone works in a pinch as a substitute. However, if I'm going to be doing a lot of reading, I might take a dedicated e-book reader along, much in the same way I might bring a paperback book with me. Or, I might choose the gaming device if I've got hours to kill. If I was a photog and was in a scenic area, I'd sure want a real camera instead of a built-in device.

      I think the smartphone is going to kick ass in the casual gaming market (or more hardcore games that do really well with a touch-screen), which will probably eclipse the hard-core gamer demographic in terms of sheer numbers. However, I still think there will always be a significant market for dedicated devices that are first and foremost optimized for gaming.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    13. Re:Yea, Okay by Theoboley · · Score: 1

      3) Labyrinth - a game that lets you control a ball through mazes with the accelerometer - can't do that on a PSP.

      Warioware Twisted for the Gameboy Advance did this years ahead of this game, Accelerometer and all.

      --
      Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
    14. Re:Yea, Okay by 228e2 · · Score: 1

      Ofcourse, and I fully agree that for the dedicated, they will always have their specialized tools. My roommate swears up and down his iPhone is the best thing since sliced bread (and its nice for what it can do) but on the same time he has a professional camera, which I understand

      But my problem is this: he has a Garmin when he can use the GPS on his phone. I recall the GPS being $10 a month for AT&T a while back, but with free updates for life, using his iPhone as his GPS would economically the better idea. The things people use casually, mp3, gps, etc should be condensed into what you use heavily, phone or whatever, and when you want/have to use something special, camera/PS4,5,13 you can always have that there.

      --
      Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
  3. D-pad by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This might work for some genres but the staples of gaming, platformers, shooters, etc, require the precise control of a d-pad.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:D-pad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      precise control of a d-pad

      wtf?

    2. Re:D-pad by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Adding a d-pad to a phone is a lot cheaper than adding a phone to a games console.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:D-pad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ftw

    4. Re:D-pad by Fallingwater · · Score: 1

      I believe you mean "the mediocre, but still much less undesirable, control of a d-pad".

    5. Re:D-pad by tayhimself · · Score: 1

      No you're wrong. For a primarily mouse and keyboard (primarily) gamer like me, the "precise control of a d-pad" is inadequate. Yet the vast majority of people game with a Dpads and are happy. Games for DPads are designed for auto-aim and loose control. Similar will happen with the move to touch screen games. Sure there will be dpad games for the hard core, but the majority will play touchscreen games on the go.

      At the end of the day the cheap and fun aspect of mobile games like Angry Birds and PvZ will win people over.

    6. Re:D-pad by dstyle5 · · Score: 1

      precise control of a d-pad

      wtf?

      Compared to a touch screen, a D-pad is certainly more accurate for controlling games and the lack of a D-pad is why I would never consider "Smart Phones" a true alternative to my DS. The lack of buttons is yet another issue.

    7. Re:D-pad by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. Consider any console shmup for instance. No auto-aim and very tight controls. D-pads are superior for these types of games because they allow you absolute certainty over what the game is doing. Press the button for a certain amount of time, and you will move a known distance. Analog controls like a touchpad or mouse allow you more options for movement, but less precision in making that movement.

      Sure there will be dpad games for the hard core, but the majority will play touchscreen games on the go.

      Which is exactly why cellphone gaming will be dominated by crappy casual games and the better games will remain on dedicated handhelds.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    8. Re:D-pad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you are wrong. You are obviously a PC-centric gamer. NTTAWWT. However, the DS and PSP descended from consoles, where D-Pads are the norm and not at limited to "auto aim and loose control". Touch controls are imprecise and clumsy for most arcade/console gaming staples -- platformers, shooters, fighting games, driving games, etc.. They also require already small screen real estate to be obscured by buttons or the player's finger.

      There are other types of games better suited, but they are not going to replace the above types of gaming.

    9. Re:D-pad by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes. The D-pad (along with the digital joystick) are the most precise input mechanisms around. They allow you to go in precisely 8 directions at precisely one speed with no error. And you can change between them instantaneously.

      Compare an analog joystick that allows you to move in many directions, but with more error. If you want to move at 45 degrees, you might end up going at 40 degrees and having to correct. It also takes time to sweep the joystick from one direction to another, and all those intermediate values are sent as input.

      Don't get me wrong, analog controls are useful too, but you wouldn't want to play MegaMan with them.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:D-pad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For a primarily mouse and keyboard (primarily) gamer like me, the "precise control of a d-pad" is inadequate.

      Is that a troll?

      A D-Pad is equivalent to WASD, I have no idea what you think makes a keyboard is more accurate.

      If you mean thumbsticks, which are not D-Pads, then sure, a mouse is more accurate for aiming. You overestimate the worth of this setup though, it sucks for a lot of game genres that aren't shooters or strategy like 3D Platformers; I have an Xbox360 gamepad hooked to my PC for that purpose.

    11. Re:D-pad by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Digital joystick? Have those really gotten to the point where they're more accurate than say an analog joystick?

      What you're describing as downside for the analog joystick is precisely why they're so much better than digital joysticks. While I'm sure that digital joysticks are better than they used to be, there are many times I can remember gaming where those blind spots in movement would be fatal to my character. And I'm willing to bet that for top tier gamers that the little bit of extra time on the digital stick is meaningful.

    12. Re:D-pad by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Hmm.. Is it, really?

      For the game console, I believe that cellular chips are on the order of $40 each, bought in massive quantities.

      For the phone, a d-pad might run $5, but then you also have to redesign the phone to take the input, be handleable while using it, etc...

      for the game console, you just make a driver/application to make calls. For the phone, well, you might have to develop a structure to handle the games using it.

      In the end, I'm going to say that I think the costs would be about even. Consider that cheap cell phones are a LOT cheaper than a DS or PSP.

      Given an android with a better game market, d-pad and such, bigger form factor, antenna, and battery, I think you'd have an easy sale.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    13. Re:D-pad by skine · · Score: 1

      Fuck the world?

    14. Re:D-pad by Theoboley · · Score: 2

      for the win.

      --
      Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
    15. Re:D-pad by Hatta · · Score: 1

      there are many times I can remember gaming where those blind spots in movement would be fatal to my character. And I'm willing to bet that for top tier gamers that the little bit of extra time on the digital stick is meaningful.

      You will not find a single expert at arcade shmups or fighters that prefers an analog joystick over a digital joystick.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  4. Imagine that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've also found it is easier to play games on my phone that I carry on my person because I need it rather than the psp I leave at home because I don't need it.

  5. Playstation Phone by bit+trollent · · Score: 2

    Isn't the PSP2 going to be an Android Playstation Phone?

    The only thing dead on arrival is this speculative article.

    1. Re:Playstation Phone by MemoryDragon · · Score: 2

      No the PSP Phone has another name, the PSP2 is a dedicated gaming device.

    2. Re:Playstation Phone by Narishma · · Score: 1

      The PSP2 and the Playstaion Phone are different products.

      --
      Mada mada dane.
  6. Counterpoints by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I can't get that flash thing in the middle of the report link to load so all I have is the summary and article but I do know that Nintendo claimed to sell 900,000 DS Units on Black Friday. And I think the PSP is doing poorly in the United States but is dominating the DS in Japan -- I'm guessing this report's demographic was USA centric?

    Regardless, I own a Motorola DROID and until they release games like "Zelda: Spirit Tracks" for my phone, I'll need my DS.

    I would speculate that this is growth of the gaming market and not replacement like the summary seems to imply. I can't argue with the numbers but my gut would say that people who game on their phones do so on both devices. And nobody's going around buying a phone just to play games on so the DS & PSP still fill that market exclusively from cellphones.

    a full 27.2% of consumers who indicate that they play games on their phones only (and not on the DS/PSP) actually own a DS or PSP, but do not actively use the device(s).

    I'm not saying this quote is wrong but I am awfully suspect of that figure. They claim an online sample size of 9,000 but they don't say how many of those actually own both a gaming phone and PSP/DS. I would be interested in the hard numbers.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Counterpoints by stoolpigeon · · Score: 1

      Spirit Tracks would suck on your phone compared to the DS - unless they sold it with a stylus that worked with your phone.

      And if my DS goes dead and there is no charger around - no big deal. With my phone? Not so much. And not much else kills my phone battery like playing games.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    2. Re:Counterpoints by MBCook · · Score: 1

      Let's not forget that the 3DS will come out in March next year, the DS launched in the US just over 6 years ago.

      As for the PSP... it never caught on. I have one, but with ~5 years of experience with it, I probably wouldn't have bought it given the choice again.

      I have a DS, but it's more involved. It's so easy to pull out my iPhone for a few moments. The iPhone is also far more powerful at this point. The only thing I wish it had was a few physical buttons somewhere. The images of the PSP phone with the slide-out gamepad look great to me. That said, I won't be ditching the ipHone platform, especially for something labeld "Playstation Phone". I'd rather just buy a sleeve for my iPhone that has broad game support.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    3. Re:Counterpoints by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      a full 27.2% of consumers who indicate that they play games on their phones only (and not on the DS/PSP) actually own a DS or PSP, but do not actively use the device(s).

      I'm not saying this quote is wrong but I am awfully suspect of that figure. They claim an online sample size of 9,000 but they don't say how many of those actually own both a gaming phone and PSP/DS. I would be interested in the hard numbers.

      I'm more suspicious of how they've ran their implications. At first glance it makes you think "So a quarter of people who own both a phone and a DS don't use their DS" - but thats not what its saying at all.

      It means of the people who play games on their phones only - which is probably not as big a number as you think it would be - have claimed that they have a DS or PSP but only play games on their phones and not their handheld system, at the current moment. This isn't to say that they don't enjoy DS or PSP games, because they obviously did at one point, otherwise they wouldn't even own the device. At that current moment, however, they simply prefered whatever game they got on their iPhone instead of their PSP.

      Like you said, there are titles that have been exclusive to consoles, I bet you if they were to launch a new Metroid, Brain academy, Zelda, Mario, and 1 other popular Nintendo Title for the DS tomorrow - and something similar were to happen for the PSP - I'm willing to bet that number would drop to practically 0%.

    4. Re:Counterpoints by bdparsley · · Score: 1

      Sounds like market growth/expansion to me as well. I doubt gamers are switching from portables to phones; but rather more non-gamers are playing games on their new phone. However, that's still something for the handheld makers to keep in mind in developing new products. There's a new market segment that they could choose to go after as well.

    5. Re:Counterpoints by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, no, the DS sales in Japan are 2x the PSP sales there.

    6. Re:Counterpoints by ahsile · · Score: 1

      I'm actually in this group. I own a PSP, and have an old GBA I used to use for long trips. The GBA is still nice for when kids come over and I don't want them to break my PSP, but then again... I hardly play the darned thing these days. Every time I look through the store for new games for the PSP there's just nothing there that's interesting (this includes the PSN).

      If I have a need for mobile gaming I just fire up my android phone... lots of games on there which are either free, or really cheap. And I already have my phone in my pocket. No need to carry around an extra device any more!

    7. Re:Counterpoints by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      So would you agree that the problem is that there aren't any titles for the PSP that grab your attention?

      If they were to announce a sequel to one of your favourite PSP titles, would you possibly start using it again?

      The point we're trying to argue is that its more about games than it is about phones. I haven't played my Xbox in a long time simply because there isn't anything new that I find worth picking up.

    8. Re:Counterpoints by sqlrob · · Score: 1

      62.5 Million is "never caught on"??? You have some high standards.

    9. Re:Counterpoints by ahsile · · Score: 1

      Yes, I probably would. If there were some good games out for the PSP I would fire it up more often. The problem is that right now, in terms of value, I'm much further ahead playing free (or very cheap) games on the phone. The games on the phone are probably much cheaper to make too! An indie developer could crank one out much faster than it would take to get a full fledged game out on to the PSP or the DS.

    10. Re:Counterpoints by redemtionboy · · Score: 1

      DS Dominates worldwide and in every region. Totals in millions. Japan: DS: 31.7 PSP: 15.7 US: DS: 50.6 PSP: 20.3 EU: DS: 56.5 PSP: 26.6 TOTAL:DS: 138.9 PSP: 62.5 http://www.vgchartz.com/home.php

    11. Re:Counterpoints by countSudoku() · · Score: 1

      I've got the iPod Touch (1st gen) a DSi (my daughter has one too) and a PSP. The PSP is hands down the most capable of the three for one single killer app; GT4. The analog stick, the huge number of cars, lots of tracks, great gameplay, great graphics, it kicks Mario Kart so hard in the ass. Next is the DSi, good combo input methods, although no analog input (other then touch screen) and no GT4, nice GTA:Chinatown Wars though, but also available on the PSP, and some good titles here and there. The DS download store blows very hard though. Never tried the PSP store, but then Sony blows very hard and I would suspect it does too. Last is the iPod, some really cute games, but nothing that makes me want to play them anymore (except video poker) or ever go back to the lame app store.

      I would not get a PSP2 or PSPhone though. PSP is ruined with each lame update from Sony. Same with the DSi, Nintendo and Sony care too much about their lock-in, and not so much about their customers wishes; like open-developer and homebrew games, download store backwards compatibility to previous firmware verions, ability to transfer d/l titles to another system... only the fucking basics. :(

      So, I'm guessing my next handheld will be from a company I already hate...

      --
      This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
    12. Re:Counterpoints by Narishma · · Score: 1

      They are but the PSP has been outselling it consistently for a while now (I'd say since about last year, give or take a few weeks where big Nintendo games like Pokémon or Mario come out).

      --
      Mada mada dane.
    13. Re:Counterpoints by Nexzus · · Score: 1

      Agreed as well. I've been hoping for Liberty City Stories for 5 years now, but I doubt it'll ever be released.

      --
      Karma: Can only be portioned out by the Cosmos.
    14. Re:Counterpoints by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      And I think the PSP is doing poorly in the United States but is dominating the DS in Japan -- I'm guessing this report's demographic was USA centric?

      Given the DS has sold out consistently for years after its relase date in Japan, I would expect that there is maybe 10 per capita or something by now. PSP sales may simply be there after salse of the DS line dropped off since so many have sold that there are probably buildings where the DS is used as bricks.

    15. Re:Counterpoints by MBCook · · Score: 1

      As of earlier this year, the PSP had sold a total of 17 million units in the US. At the same time (March) the DS had sold 46 million. That's nearly 3x as many.

      At the same time, I've seen DSes all over the place. My little sister, all her friends, some of their parents, and many other people have DSes. On the other hand, it's relatively rare I see a PSP out in public. It was more common closer to launch.

      Let's put it this way. In the last two years, Sony sold 7 million PSPs. Nintendo sold 24 million DSes. More than 3x as many. I think PSP sales have been slowing down, while the DS has stayed about the same or gone up. I view the PSP as having lost all momentum in the market.

      It hasn't been a total flop. It seems more like a Dreamcast to me. A console that was OK and had decent sales, and was totally eclipsed by it's competitors.

      I've been dissapointed with mine. I haven't seen a ton of games that appeal to me, and many that do are hobbled by trying to shoehorn games onto a console without the second analog stick, giving them view problems. Some of the best PSP games have been those with fixed cameras: Loco Roco (2D), Katamari (3D behind the head), Patapon (2D), Hot Shots Golf (3D behind the avatar). Games that don't follow this model (Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters) often suffer for the lack of better camera controls.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    16. Re:Counterpoints by Gravatron · · Score: 1

      In the US yes, but in japan it's been doing really well, considering it's up against several flavors of DS now (Ds lite, dsi, dsi XL).

      It's starting to show it's age though, and hopefully that's something the psp2 can fix for them. Still, to move 62 million units with massive anti-psp fud since day one, against an entrenched giant like the gameboy is one hell of an accomplishment.

    17. Re:Counterpoints by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 1

      They are also not measuring people under the age of 12.

    18. Re:Counterpoints by Gravatron · · Score: 1

      The problem is, they wouldn't update the firmware to lock out folks if most of those folks were not doing it to play pirated games. They have to defend their platform and business model from those who just want a free lunch.

    19. Re:Counterpoints by hedwards · · Score: 1

      If I get a dedicated portable system, the 3Ds is almost certainly going to be it. But I'm going to wait to see how it ends up working and a price on it. But it does look promising. Hopefully they come up with something more compelling than just some gimmicks to justify playing.

      Although SMB in 3D might be kind of interesting, with the various of scenery being on their own layer.

    20. Re:Counterpoints by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      I've long thought that an Apple/Nintendo partnership would be... interesting.

      They both have great user-centric systems, platform lock in, 'fans', etc, and don't often directly compete.

      I think Nintendo using their IP and writing games for iPlatforms could work out well; strict hardware control, family friendly, etc.

      However, they are probably both to Not-Invented-Here to work well with -anyone-.

    21. Re:Counterpoints by Unkyjar · · Score: 1

      Wait, the PSP console or the PSP games? Every time I look at game sales the DS is utterly dominating.

    22. Re:Counterpoints by MBCook · · Score: 1

      I'll buy one. I've yet to buy a Nintendo system I didn't love. Between first party titles and all the amazing 3rd party stuff that has come out for the GB, GBA, and DS over the years it seems like a slam dunk. Even if the system ends up just being a new DS with the 3D stuff being mostly unused, I could still have a lot of fun with it.

      I even really liked my VirtualBoy, but I bought it on clearance for $50 and many games for $5. It wouldn't have been worth the full MSRP. The WarioLand game for it was great, each level having two planes to play on at different depths you could switch between. Mario Tennis worked so well because you could judge the ball so well. Mario Clash felt like the original Mario Brothers arcade in semi 3D.

      Really, the DS's biggest problem at this point is the iPhone. Over the last 2.5 years (since I bought my 3G) there have been so many amazing games to come out. They're often very cheap but can be a total blast. Some (like Flight Control) end up being ported to the DS but the barrier to develop on the iPhone (and Android) is just so low. If Nintendo would lower the barrier to entry for developing for DSi Ware, I think they could get some amazing stuff. Unfortunately Nintendo requires DSi Ware people to basically be big real companies. Smaller games like Doodle Jump, Flight Control, and Trism simply couldn't be released on DSi Ware (at least initially) because they weren't "real" game developer.

      Maintaining quality is important, but I think the homebrew scenes and the App store have shown that there are some amazing diamonds in the rough.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    23. Re:Counterpoints by MBCook · · Score: 1

      I wasn't very anti-PSP when it launched, I was willing to give it a chance. I bought the PS on the Sony name and it worked out great. I bought a PS2 based on the PS1 and the future possibility, and it worked great.

      I bought a PSP based on the Playstation Brand and I've been rather disappointed. There have been some amazing games to be sure, but none of them are really PSP specific. Games like Loco Roco can be done elsewhere. There's a clone of it for the iPhone. Patapon could be done on any other platform, the PSP's best asset there was the wide screen. Hot Shots Golf could be done on the DS. Katamari was done on other platforms.

      The PSP is powerful. The DS couldn't pull of God of War or Ratchet and Clank, but those are few and far between. God of War worked very well, but R&C felt small and hobbled by the lack of a second stick for the camera. They are also both Sony properties.

      The PSP was clearly powerful, but to my mind Sony has really failed to live up to it's potential. The problems I had earlier this year with my PSP trying to update the firmware and buy a downloadable game only cemented that (short version: had to buy memory card, then new battery, downloads took forever). I've always felt like it has had a game drought (which the DS had initially, but it's quite gone now).

      At this point I'm highly skeptical. I waited until this year for the PS3 and I don't fell I missed much. I was able to go buy the games I cared about, and I paid 1/2 what I would have at launch. I just don't think the PSP2 will be different enough from it's competitors or even the PSP to make me think it will be a good idea to buy near launch. The PSP Go has not helped my confidence. Higher price? Killing your "killer feature" of high storage? Still no second stick? Lower battery life? No.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    24. Re:Counterpoints by Narishma · · Score: 1

      I was talking about the console, but even the games sell well. There are usually 3 or 4 PSP games in the weekly top 10. Remember, we're talking about Japan here.

      --
      Mada mada dane.
  7. DS player here... by Shanrak · · Score: 1

    Yes there are some nifty games on the iphone, but I'd prefer a dedicated portable entertainment device (the touch fits the bill quite nicely as well), over using my smart phone since after a 4-5 hour flight, I'd rather still be able to make a phone call. Get those battery performances up and maybe I'll consider ditching my portable gaming device.

    --
    This post may or may not contain cancer causing materials.
    1. Re:DS player here... by Gizzmonic · · Score: 1

      Yeah, battery life is the real issue here. With the standard battery on my Pre, I can get about 24 hours of normal use (push email on 3 accounts, plus a little bit of Facebook/Twitter etc). If I start playing Scrabble on the phone, I can play for maybe 2 hours before the battery completely drains. Adding a high capacity battery buys me about 30 mins more of Scrabble time. For long trips, it just doesn't work.

      On the other hand, I'm not dragging my DS around unless I'm traveling. It might be different if you're a kid or if you live somewhere with decent public transportation.

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
  8. Re:Mental Health Days by Amorymeltzer · · Score: 0

    Methinks you mixed up your tabs.

    --
    I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
  9. Phones have a bigger market by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1, Informative

    Phones just have a much larger market right out of the door. PSP/DS are toys. They're for gamers, and seen by many as for children. But everyone has a phone, and it's not seen as childish to play games on them if you've got some time to kill. Phone games also have a lot more casual games than PSP/DS.

    1. Re:Phones have a bigger market by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but phones take a lot more work to develop -real- games for. Aside from making glorified Flash games, it takes a lot of work to develop a successful game for phones. For one, there is a lot more operating systems to code for: Android, iOS, Symbian, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone 7, BlackBerry OS, etc. and within those there are even more questions, will the device support multi-touch? You can't port the same UI for a game expected to run on something like the Galaxy S and one running on something more low end with no multi-touch or a smaller screen.

      Similarly, you leave out a hugely popular and hugely lucrative market: kids and gamers. No parent wants to buy their kid a cell phone, especially not a smartphone plan for one. And gamers don't want to have 32423423 cell phone contracts simply to play a few games. It isn't out of the ordinary for people to own multiple consoles, it is, however, out of the ordinary for people to own multiple phones of the same generation.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:Phones have a bigger market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Similarly, you leave out a hugely popular and hugely lucrative market: kids and gamers. No parent wants to buy their kid a cell phone, especially not a smartphone plan for one. And gamers don't want to have 32423423 cell phone contracts simply to play a few games. It isn't out of the ordinary for people to own multiple consoles, it is, however, out of the ordinary for people to own multiple phones of the same generation.

      So the only real alternative to mobile game consoles for that market is iOS with parental controls on an iPod Touch. This is an unparalleled device for this market. It's easy to administer and lock down, has non-game content and can be tracked/remotelocked with mobileMe... for higher up-front price, but the games are cheaper (and can be shared amongst all iOS devices).

      Apple is a real disruptive threat to Nintendo/Sony here as their offering is a gateway to the iPhone/iPad, but offers a lot of advanced features... anecdotally, I only see the iPod Touch and PS3/Wii being played by the kids at our family parties now. Perhaps that will change but I no longer see any DS or PSPs.

    3. Re:Phones have a bigger market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention that cell phones are a given for most people, so when they're faced with the prospect of either spending $130 on another device to carry around in order to play games -- without the games -- or spending that to buy games at $5-$10 a pop, most people will probably choose the 12 to 20 games.

  10. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit198 · · Score: 0
    so get a job at a different company or start your own.

    you're obviously too dumb to post under the correct story. maybe you're just "mental".

  11. Hearing... by sajuuk · · Score: 0

    Hearing it but not seeing it. I'll stick with my PSP and DS so that my phone's battery isn't drained when I actually need it. Come to think of it, my PSP and DS also have better active use battery life than a phone does. Until that issue is resolved, smartphone gaming will never overtake handheld console gaming. Also, smartphone gaming requires you to actually OWN a smartphone. I'll stick with my relatively simple phone that doesn't give my carrier a chance to "accidentally" charge me for data minutes I didn't use. All it needs to do is make/receive calls and text messages (and frankly I could do without those too).

  12. Correction by choko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Correction: Some regular people (not gamers) are turning to their smartphones for gaming. Gamers are people that have a discerning taste for games. Smartphone game quality is lacking (as are controls) when compared to a dedicated mobile gaming device. I've tried several smartphone games, and they are little more than time wasters. You play them a few times, and probably forget about them in a week. There are several titles for PSP that I actually make time to play. There are NO mobile phone/smartphone games I will MAKE time to play.

    1. Re:Correction by markass530 · · Score: 1

      I was gonna write a comment, but you said exactly what I was going to. They shouldn't have used the word gamers at all. I pretty much discredited the whole article after reading that line.

    2. Re:Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Correction: Some regular people (not gamers) are turning to their smartphones for gaming. Gamers are people that have a discerning taste for games.

      Self-justifying definition of "gamers" that excludes "regular people" because it doesn't suit your pseudo-elitist (*) view, a la
      the No True Scotsman fallacy.

      (*) Pseudo-elitist because "elitist" itself would still imply acceptance of your self-defined, self-justifying hierarchy that implies those who share your style of gaming are somehow more serious and real gamers.

    3. Re:Correction by buruonbrails · · Score: 1

      I know some former PC gamers who turned to smartphone games. Actually, I'm one of them. I wouldn't even consider consoles as an alternative to PC gaming, but smartphone games are another story. PC games market is largily dominated by a few big players, who release big titles for broad audience to maximize their ROI. Naturally, their games are developed for the lowest common denominator. However, in smartphone game dev there's still a place for indie developers, who can afford to develop a game they'd play themselves, sell it for a small niche and still be profitable.
      Not all of smartphone games are timewasters (well, no more than any other computer games); there are even some complex RPGs, like Zenonia for iPhone. While not as deep as the legendary Fallout, it is still much more of an RPG than many "RPG"s, released for PC nowadays.

    4. Re:Correction by tsj5j · · Score: 1

      You clearly haven't tried many smartphone games.

      I'd take the iPhone for example, since the game library it has is far larger.

      Here are some games that rival the consoles:
      - Crimson Gem Saga (PSP Port, 9.99)
      - Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit (4.99)
      - Lego HP (4.99)
      - Fieldrunners
      - Carcassonne

      Most of them have console ports, with some games like Fieldrunners having been so well-received that they've been ported to consoles.
      Notice, as well, that they are often far cheaper than their console counterparts (Crimson Gem Saga sells for 30+ on the PSP).

      Sure, there's alot of trash on smartphones, but that's to be expected from the low barrier of entry to the app store.
      There's alot of trash on the DS and PSP too, but comparing who has worse games is a race to the bottom.

  13. Tactile feedback by Hogwash+McFly · · Score: 1

    There's a world of difference between a dedicated gaming device and a touch-screen phone in terms of controls. Using a touchscreen for all input or shoehorning in the phone's buttons for gaming controls can't provide the level of control of a d-pad and ABXY buttons positioned exactly where they need to be. Of course the games market is apparently going more 'casual' so perhaps touchscreens are the way to go. Not that I even have a portable games console or a smart phone for that matter so it's all academic. Fuck it, do what you want with your fucking games.

    --
    Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
    1. Re:Tactile feedback by Xian97 · · Score: 1

      Precision is also lacking. I can click on a much smaller area with the DS stylus than I can with my fingertip on a smart phone. The tactile feedback of real buttons as you mentioned is also missing, as well as your fingers obscuring a portion of the playing screen. Some of the best smart phone games I have played are ones that use the tilt controls such as Doodle Jump which eliminates the issues mentioned above by having very little on screen controls.

    2. Re:Tactile feedback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Real smartphones have styluses.

      Alas, it appears as though the N900 may be the last of the real smartphones for a while, and it doesn't have a D-pad like its predecessors (770 = quite respectable game machine, hardware-wise). But eventually, active digitizers will get cheap enough and low-power enough to show up (paired`with capacitive for fingers) in high-end phones, and then they'll be smart again.

    3. Re:Tactile feedback by hedwards · · Score: 1

      There's a principle in UI design that with a mouse you can reliably find 4 points without looking. The four corners plus the spot right under the mouse. And with a keyboard, you can reliably find somewhere around 50 or so excluding modifiers with just the keys on the main portion of the keyboard.

      Dedicated systems are usually significantly less complex, but even my xBox 360 controller has 10 buttons 2 mini sticks and 1 D-pad. Which is a significant leap over what a touchscreen only phone has available.

  14. Re:who are "gamers"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If slashdot is stagnated, why are you still here?

    Are you so useless and/or stupid that you continue to commit time to something you believe is stagnated?

    Yes, yes, I know, I'm "NOTHING" and my mum's face is useless and/or stupid.

    Oh, and you'll attack my anonymity, too, I suppose.

    But how about an honest answer to my question? Why do you come to slashdot if you don't like it? Do you honestly have nothing better to do with your time? Are you a masochist who enjoys (perversely) doing things that make you unhappy?

    Do you get joy out of trolling slashdot -- does it make you feel superior when you get people to respond to your inanity? Why would that be? Because you lack fulfillment from any other portion of your life? Are you so miserable and pitiful that the best joy you get in life is from trolling slashdot?!

  15. Smartphones, Entertainment, and Battery Life by grimsweep · · Score: 1

    I rely on my phone to keep me in touch with friends, family and work. As much as I'd love to get one, I'm concerned a smartphone will be a liability if I decided to play one too many rounds of Canabalt on a road trip or checking Slashdot in the checkout line. Instead, I "get by" with an iPod Touch and a dedicated phone. If my touch ever loses power, it's new big deal.

    I'm wondering if my concerns are valid, and if so, when news reports start headlining car crash victims unable to dial for help due to one game too many of 'Angry Birds'.

    Just because a device can play games doesn't mean it should.

    1. Re:Smartphones, Entertainment, and Battery Life by grimsweep · · Score: 1

      "new" --> "no". Pardon the horrific typo.

    2. Re:Smartphones, Entertainment, and Battery Life by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      I play quite a lot of Pinball Dreams on a n900. With its keyboard, it's actually a better device for that game than a big computer. Sure, being an emulated DOS game it will drain the whole battery in less than three hours, but how often are you that far from home that you can't afford half of the battery's charge? (I never play that much in one go, too). You'll still have a day at standby left.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    3. Re:Smartphones, Entertainment, and Battery Life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The keys are right next to each other.

      Or did you type this on your Touch/iPhone?

    4. Re:Smartphones, Entertainment, and Battery Life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it's a real issue -- I've been one-deviceing it for about a year now, and the N900 is not kind to batteries, either. But when your game machine is potentially your lifeline, you just don't game (or torrent/download movies, etc., etc.) when your battery is 30% -- I start getting nervous about 50%, personally, and even stop my music if it gets down to 25%.

      And remember, in the space you would be carrying a second device, you can always carry a battery (with about twice as much energy, since it has no screen, processor, keypad, etc.) or a dumbphone backup (grants redundancy not only on battery, but everything in the phone except the SIM -- good for e.g. busted screeen). If I expect to be away from a car or wall charger for a significant length of time, I do pack a USB battery, but most of the time (e.g. workplace, grocery runs, etc.) I don't need it, whereas your two-device approach requires both devices all the time.

      That's my opinion, anyway; YMMV and all that.

  16. More meaningless stats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So let me get this straight...when almost every phone you buy these days has games on them, some of them pretty good, people are using the phone they already bought to play them? No way!!!

    And for aging older generation handheld game consoles, people are buying them less? C'mon man! How can it be?!?

    I'm sure this was put together by some outfit that was paid by someone in the cell phone business to help people along in the decision to spend $250 on a new phone rather than a DS, but cant we at least have something a little bit interesting?

  17. Makes sense by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 1

    For non hardcore gamers who have phones this makes more and more sense. One device less, always with you.

    Win.

    Sure, dedicated is always dedicated, but good enough is good enough for most people. Most phones sold in Finland are smartphones by now. Most kids get a phone at 7 when starting school. (Too soon IMHO.)

    The supply will go where there is a market to fill the demand.

    --
    .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
  18. Kids by 1000101 · · Score: 1

    My son is 6. He doesn't need a phone, he needs a DS. How many other millions of people are in this same situation?

    1. Re:Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would also like to point out how awful the games are for these smartphones. Its just lame flash games. Gaming quantity may be up but gaming satisfaction is going way down.

      What your 6 year old needs is a phone that he treasures/carries/charges as much as that DS. You say he doesn't need a phone, but think of all the friends he will make by prank calling the principal from recess. Thats 1000 times more fun than Bejeweled anyways.

    2. Re:Kids by kasimbaba · · Score: 1

      He doesn't need a phone, he needs a DS.

      Why the hell does he need a DS? What happens if he doesn't get it?

  19. Ah, statistics by RollingThunder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So the percentage of handheld gaming conducted on solely gaming device fell.

    What this doesn't prove is that gamers are "abandoning" the DS and PSP.

    It could just as likely mean that the pool of handheld devices that are game capable has exploded.

    If you had 150M handheld gaming devices back when phones sucked for gaming, and now there's a billion total - with 200M being dedicated devices and 800M being smartphones that can game effectively, then yes - the percentage that's DS/PSP plummets, while the total number still climbs.

    Without some actual numbers, I'm skeptical that it's wholesale abandonment. The growth of the pool is far more likely to me.

  20. Re:Mental Health Days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so get a job at a different company or start your own. you're obviously too dumb to post under the correct story. maybe you're just "mental".

    I already get 30+ paid vacation days a year. You? Now go back to your "help desk" phones, you'll never be more than a code monkey.

  21. WTF? by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So already I can't get popular titles to run on my kick ass workstation with high end graphic cards and monitors. To play them I would have to buy a crappy console and hook it up to my mediocre TV.

    Now, people want to move from that to playing on a phone?

    Seems we are going backwards here.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:WTF? by devbox · · Score: 0

      Eh, there are already several great titles on Nintendo DS that I would like to have on PC. Even iPhone has its Angry Birds that I would like on PC too.

    2. Re:WTF? by XLazarusX · · Score: 1

      Sound like you have a problem with your TV. That doesn't impact the rest of us.

    3. Re:WTF? by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Yes, I use it to watch TV, not play games.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    4. Re:WTF? by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 2

      If you're pretending that you're somehow typical of the market, you're disillusioned. Sorry.

    5. Re:WTF? by TexNA55 · · Score: 1

      Umm you think you are mainstream? Mr Joe Average? I think the last time a game was played on my TV was back when I had the C64/C128. DISCLAIMER: I am 100% Microsoft Software Free- and sure as hell I don't claim to be Mr Average.

      --
      Slackware- Its not just an OS; its a lifestyle
    6. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there are already several great titles on Nintendo DS that I would like to have on PC

      http://ideasemu.biz

      iPhone has its Angry Birds that I would like on PC too

      Apple distributes an iPhone simulator with the developer SDK. I'm pretty sure it costs money for access to it, but it's probably much less than the cost of an actual iPhone.

    7. Re:WTF? by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      I don't see why you don't hook the console up to your monitors. Would cut out the mediocre TV.

  22. Re:Mental Health Days by nobodylocalhost · · Score: 1

    I think you need a "mental health" day away from slashdot. Just saying...

    --
    Where is the "Ignorant" mod tag?
  23. There is only one solution by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    The Nintendo DSphone.

    You know you want one. You crave it. You'd sell out your own family for one.

    Oops, that last bit was supposed to be [subliminal].

    1. Re:There is only one solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! It could have a touch screen, a microphone, and speakers! They should include built-in wifi support as well
       
      ..wait..

  24. Until they release Etrian Odyssesy for Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make mine DS!

  25. Not gamers... casual people... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    Sorry but the PSP kicks the ass out of any cellphone for control. The DS as well.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  26. That became clear to me by MemoryDragon · · Score: 2

    a few months ago when I was visiting an electronics store, and I saw a load of kiddies around the ipad displayed playing games, while the ordinary nintendo ds section and also the PSP sections were abandoned mostly. Ok it also has something to do with the device actually been usable while the others merely had the usual console displayed but it was blatantly clear where the train is heading.
    Add to that that the average handheld game on the ds and psp is around 45-50 euros here while the handheld games are dirt cheap and a no brainer to buy. In the end you spend
    more on smartphone games than you would on the average console.
    Classical example of low prices sellls more cashwise than the average console game.
    What I would say is this is a real thread for Nintendo which always had its stronghold in the handheld gaming sektor from where it could start its console experiments. That stronghold is seriously under attack. And in the usual Nintendo manner they probably will realise it two years after they are stone dead in the market.

    1. Re:That became clear to me by Stone316 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Both myself and my son are gamers, so yes i'm biased. However, saying that the kids are all crowded around a demo ipad playing games means nothing. Its new, they most likely don't have one at home and excited because its the latest and greatest toy. When my son goes to the games store he stuck on whatever Wii title they are demo'ing... Half the time we have the damn thing at home and he doesn't touch it.

      I brought an ipad home from work for 2 weeks. Both my kids (gamer son, daughter) constantly used it the first few days. 2 weeks later I was the only one using it regularly and not for games. My son quickly reverted back to the DS, PSP, XBOX or PS3 to play games. Up until I brought an ipad home my daughter had a fund saving up for one. I think she spent it on clothes since then.. I haven't heard a peep.

      There are a few games that perfectly suit an ipad. I have a few puzzle games, line tracing games, etc. but other than that, any serious gamer is going to have a portable gaming device or a console. Can't wait to play me some Black Ops on an iPad, not....

      I have an iPhone and yes I play games on it but they are timewasters. I've tried the ones with the virtual keyboard/buttons and quite honestly it sucks. You end up missing because there is no tactile feed back, your finger blocks the screen because you pulled the joystick to far, end up dying, etc.

      These people playing games on their smartphone probably would probably never buy a portable gaming device.

      --
      "Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
    2. Re:That became clear to me by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      I brought an ipad home from work for 2 weeks. Both my kids (gamer son, daughter) constantly used it the first few days. 2 weeks later I was the only one using it regularly and not for games. My son quickly reverted back to the DS, PSP, XBOX or PS3 to play games. Up until I brought an ipad home my daughter had a fund saving up for one. I think she spent it on clothes since then.. I haven't heard a peep.

      The plural (singular?) of anecdote is not data. Luckily, we have data showing iPad use increases over time...

      http://gigaom.com/apple/survey-ipad-is-replacing-computers-for-many/
      ----
      Though the researchers originally thought the iPad might be passed off as a flashy device that held little long-term value, 77.6 percent of the users found their iPad usage went up after their initial "honeymoon" period. So, the iPad probably won't end up in your return pile shortly along with oddly-colored sweaters.
      -----

    3. Re:That became clear to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I consider myself a gamer and I've moved my mobile gaming to my iphone and ipad; primarily because I take them with me when I go out. I never played my PSP or DS because I never had them on hand when I was out and had the desire to play a game. It doesn't matter if a system's games are better if I never use it.

      I don't need a hand held gaming device when I'm at home.

    4. Re:That became clear to me by tsj5j · · Score: 1

      These people playing games on their smartphone probably would probably never buy a portable gaming device.

      The article states that nearly 30% of the respondents playing games on their smartphone own an abandoned DS or PSP.

    5. Re:That became clear to me by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, I am one of those who have portable gaming devices and an iPad. And frankly spoken I use my ipad way more often while the gaming devices collect dust. Reason, the NDS games with some exceptions (mostly nintendo stuff) are not that much better, and the ipad is a universal device while the gaming device is yet another device I have to drag along which serves 99% only for gaming (using the browser or watchting a movie on the psp and nds simply sucks)
      In reality the ipad has replaced my notebook for 80% of the daily tasks and 20% are ones which theoretically could be done with a pad if a keyboard dock was there and the software, but the software is not there yet.

  27. Re:Mental Health Days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Awww you got really butthurt there. Next you'll tell us how you have sex with a different beautiful woman every night of the week.

  28. This doesn't mean anything. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gaming on a phone is a matter of convenience. Anyone who's really interested in gaming as a hobby will buy a dedicated device (or a PC), and any serious game developer works primarily (but not necessarily exclusively) with actual game platforms. The fact that the number of casual gamers is increasing does not mean that the so-called "core" gamers are abandoning traditional sources for their games. It just means more people are gaming. In fact, it's entirely likely that some of these new cell-phone-gamers will develop an increased interest that will lead them to purchase a dedicated gaming device when they otherwise may not have done so.

  29. Handhelds viable only if they're ahead on tech by MaiXu · · Score: 1

    It must be inevitable that all phones out there will soon be able to run games and other apps just as well as iPhone or Android phones do now; giving customers access to the games via easy buying portals and somehow controlling the quality and integrity of the e-store will be another problem to sort out. But I don't know if smart phones will totally kill handheld game machines just yet. Nintendo is keeping itself ahead of the curve with the 3DS. It's only a matter of time before those kind of displays are available in phones, but for now, when matched with first-party software and (it's reported and hoped) a more robust online service, it's enough to make it clear the the 3DS will offer a better gaming experience than a simple phone. The PSP has always seemed to be a misguided attempt to cram console experiences into your pocket, which may be inaccurate, but I still don't see the appeal of it or the PSP2/PSP Phone. But for how long will they maintain this shrinking niche? Nintendo can't release a totally new piece of hardware every few months (and iterations of the same hardware in smaller/sleeker packaging don't count), but the major phone makers can iterate endlessly and catch up more easily. Much as with the Wii has enjoyed an apparent single-generation technological leapfrog via motion controls that will likely disappear when Sony and MS adopt them as de rigueur in their next consoles, what will (or can?) Nintendo do to make future handhelds a place people want to game? They could always continue to publish software, but it's been a very long time since Nintendo developed

  30. Novelty of new devices by mikaelwbergene · · Score: 1

    The Nintendo DS is 6 years old, I'm not surprised the demand is sinking... It's been running on the same base technology (though in minorly upgraded lite, XL, dsi versions)

    However once the 3DS comes out, people will once again get their "Ooh, shiny" fix by buying Nintendos new hand held and enjoying the new novelty.

    I love my DS and play on it regularly, because the variety and quality of games on it and will be buying the 3DS.

  31. No one is taking into account the 3DS? by BHS_Turf · · Score: 1

    Nintendo has been teasing us with the 3DS, and you wonder why people stopped buying the DS?

    Another reason people are buying phone games over DS/PSP games is price. The handheld games are between 3 and 50 times as much as their iPhone cousins, when the iPhone games are not free.

    A third possible explanation is that there has been no significant hardware change/upgrade in the DS/PSP lineup to drive buzz and sales.

    The article is pretty weak on analysis or looking for alternative explanations for the drop in sales.

  32. But gamers can change too by hellfire · · Score: 1

    If you want to play a game designed for the d-pad, then you should play that game on the proper platform. I don't want to try to fit Starcraft 2 onto a Nintendo DS, any more than I want to fit Zelda onto an iPhone. If you want to play those games, the best way is to get that platform and play them. I downloaded Golden Axe on my iPhone and learned quickly that slapping a virtual d-pad on an old style game designed for a joystick is not going to be a fun experience.

    It's about is the game fun or not. Games that require a d-pad and are not forgiving are not fun on a touch screen, so people go elsewhere. Newer shooters on phones seem to recognise that you have to balance the game play with the fact that you don't have a d-pad but need similar controls. Nova and Eliminate are very popular on the iPhone and are first person shooters.

    At the same time, gamers recognize that they have a choice, carry around two devices or carry one. Cell phones are all but required these days. Gaming platforms, not so much. Many hardcore gamers are going to stay with PSP and Nintendo, and that is their choice. However, not everyone is a hardcore gamer. Before people had a choice for mobile gaming, nintendo or Sony. Casual gamers either ponied up the cash or walked away. Now they have a third choice. The games are cheaper, more casual, but still fun. Angry Birds is not a hard core game, and it's got to be the #1 top dollar grossing app across all mobile platforms (it is on the iPhone).

    There have been a ton of attempts to come up with a d-pad add on for iPhones. None of them are popular enough or make any sense. The physical d-pad is slowly becoming the niche rather than the norm, and hard core gamers are just going to have to deal with it.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

    1. Re:But gamers can change too by Hatta · · Score: 2

      If you want to play a game designed for the d-pad, then you should play that game on the proper platform.

      Agreed. For a great many great games that platform is not going to be a phone.

      Cell phones are all but required these days. Gaming platforms, not so much.

      I've never owned a cell phone, but I have a DS in my pocket right now. It would take some damn good games to get me to buy a cell phone, but because of the controls few great games are possible.

      The physical d-pad is slowly becoming the niche rather than the norm, and hard core gamers are just going to have to deal with it.

      Probably true. Quality is almost always a niche interest. Gamers might in fact be moving to cell phones, that doesn't mean it's a good thing for games, or gamers.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  33. I abandoned my PSP and DS by Nichotin · · Score: 1

    I commute every day, and after having read through one of the monthly magazines i recieve (Aftenposten Innsikt, articles about everything from nuclear power to oil in Nigeria), i play DS or PSP. Or, at least I used to. That made me "abandon" them is that no good games (with some exceptions) come for them any more. I have a phone that I could probably play on, but I prefer having battery left to actually do phone stuff.

    1. Re:I abandoned my PSP and DS by supersloshy · · Score: 1

      DS:
      Sonic Rush / Adventure / Colors
      Zelda Phantom Hourglass / Spirit Tracks
      Professor Layton [insert subtitle here]
      Phoenix Wright / Apollo Justice / Miles Edgeworth - Ace Attorney [Investigations]
      Picross and Picross 3D
      Mega Man ZX / ZX Advent / Zero Collection

      All of those are high-scoring (in terms of popular review sites) games that deserve to be played at least once, Picross/3D in particular; both of those games have so many challenging puzzles that I still haven't beaten both of them since I got them! If you can spare the cash, you can get an R4 (and an EZ Flash 3-in-one) or some other type of homebrew cart and back them all up on to a microsd card to take them all wherever you go! My DS has replaced my iPod as well, since the Moonshell homebrew program can play music and video (way, way more audio formats than an ipod, but the video format's specialized and you need to pre-convert videos).

      As for the PSP, I heard that Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep and Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker are really good.

      --
      "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
  34. No indie games on DS by tepples · · Score: 1

    the lack of a D-pad is why I would never consider "Smart Phones" a true alternative to my DS.

    And the lack of indie games on DSiWare is why some other people would never consider a DS an alternative to their smartphone.

    1. Re:No indie games on DS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does a game being indie or not have to do with how it plays and controls? Being an indie game isn't going make up for lack of a physical control system. Its all about your gaming tastes. You obviously don't mind playing games that don't require a d-pad and buttons, but for those of us that do having a million indie games to choose from that lack precise controls won't make up for it.

    2. Re:No indie games on DS by grumbel · · Score: 1

      Being an indie game isn't going make up for lack of a physical control system.

      Indie games can't emulate a good dpad with a touchscreen, but they can build games that don't need one in the first place. The touchscreen, accelerometer and cameras provide plenty options for game control beside the dpad. An Angry Bird doesn't need a dpad to work, neither does a Doodle Jump. Even mainstream titles such as Zelda: Phantom Hourglass on the NintendoDS don't need the dpad.

      Unless somebody comes up with a really elegant way to hide a real dpad in a smart phone, my bet would be that the games that require a dpad will simply disappear from the mobile gaming market in the long run.

      Just look at FPS on console, dual analog might not have the precision of a mouse, but the market doesn't care and the games have simply adopted, providing auto aim, lock-on and snap-targeting when needed.

  35. Android by Is0m0rph · · Score: 1

    I'd probably still take my DS on a long work trip but most of the time if I'm going to play a quick game it's on my phone. Angry Birds will probably keep me busy for a long time.

  36. Genres by tepples · · Score: 1

    Games for DPads are designed for auto-aim and loose control.

    Not all video games are first-person shooters. For example, Tetris DS with a D-pad is much more precise than the control method that Tetris and EA chose for their iPhone product.

  37. I also think its growth but with some stagnation by Assassin_for_Atari · · Score: 1

    I think its easier to turn to your cell phone for brief sessions, ie, a wait in the doctors office, than trying to hull around your psp/ds. Now, would I get rid of my psp/ds. Heck no, but thats because I feel those portables provide a more dedicated gaming experience for longer sessions.

    To boot, you have the fact that both the DS and the PSP have been out in market for 5+ years while cell phones making huge hardware gains at break neck speeds.

    PSP2 I will not be DOA, neither will the DS. As others have said too, you need something for kids...though I guess you could also give them your old smart phone and access the store via wifi...or in the case of apple, a ipod touch.

  38. Not all video games are major-label by tepples · · Score: 1

    If you want to play a game designed for the d-pad, then you should play that game on the proper platform.

    For which platform should an indie game developer make a game designed for a D-pad? Right now, indie game developers have to make phone games with a virtual D-pad because Sony and Nintendo won't give them the time of day.

    Cell phones are all but required these days.

    Smartphones, not so much. Let me know when smartphone service approaches the $15 per 3 months that I currently pay Virgin Mobile for service on my Audiovox 8610 flip phone.

  39. Devkit cost; family plan by tepples · · Score: 1

    phones take a lot more work to develop -real- games for

    How so? The devkit for an iPod touch costs $1,000: $600 for a Mac mini on which to run Xcode, $300 for an iPod touch, and $100 for your first year of the iPhone developer program. Android is cheaper to buy the PC but more expensive to buy the device because the platform has no direct counterpart to the iPod touch; the flagship Nexus One developer handset is an unlocked telephone, not a PDA or MP3 player. The devkit for a DS is far more expensive: first you have to have an office, and then you have to have a prior published title on someone else's platform, and even once you've satisfied those requirements, the devkit reportedly costs far more than $1,000.

    You can't port the same UI for a game expected to run on something like the Galaxy S and one running on something more low end with no multi-touch or a smaller screen.

    But as long as different platforms can run programs written in the same programming language, you can share the effort to develop the game rules and then use the model-view-controller paradigm to abstract the UI. The problem comes when Apple wants only Objective-C++, Microsoft wants only C#, RIM wants only Java, etc.

    No parent wants to buy their kid a cell phone

    Except for parents who have cut the land line and put their kids on the family plan, like my aunt.

    1. Re:Devkit cost; family plan by Darkness404 · · Score: 1
      Cost != work. Yes, it is cheap to develop games for cell phones, but, A) there are very, very, few cell phone games on par with PSP and DS games. Just look at something that would be a home-run for cell phones: RPGs. But yet, other than ports of games from other consoles I have yet to find one on par with even Pokemon. and B) you have to port it over to several platforms for less marketshare than just porting it to the DS or PSP. Like you said, they don't even program in the same language.

      you can share the effort to develop the game rules and then use the model-view-controller paradigm to abstract the UI

      Sure, but games are often times made or broken based on their UI. Look at how popular games like Wii Sports are, such games wouldn't translate well to the PS3 or 360 (excluding of course the Kenect and PS3 Move). Nor would a button-heavy game translate well to the Wii.

      The problem is, you have a much, much, lower amount of marketshare for each platform you port it to with cell phones when compared to consoles.

      Except for parents who have cut the land line and put their kids on the family plan, like my aunt.

      Except for the fact that doesn't work for a lot of situations. Its pretty easy to give a DS to a 5 or 6 year old loaded with Mario and have them play it. On the other hand, who is a 5 or 6 year old going to call? And even when they are a bit older like 7 or 8, how do you control your bill? Yes, you can tell them not to text that number that gives you """""free""""" ringtones, but they might do it anyways leaving you stuck with a hefty bill. Plus, smartphone plans are extremely expensive. They aren't the "pay $9 a month and get 30 minutes of call time" type of plans.

      Really, smartphones are a dead-end when it comes to gaming. Unless there is a virtual monopoly of 3 phones in 3 identical hardware configurations, handheld games will always be better quality and easier to port for a better experience.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:Devkit cost; family plan by tepples · · Score: 1

      Cost != work.

      Teachers drilled into me that time is money. What do I misunderstand?

      B) you have to port it over to several platforms for less marketshare than just porting it to the DS or PSP.

      The meager market share from porting a game to Android 2.1+ phones alone is greater than the zero market share (due to rejection) that one would get from trying to target the DS or PSP for a company's first title. Look at Bob's Game for example.

      Nor would a button-heavy game translate well to the Wii.

      Brawl? Mario Kart?

      Yes, you can tell [your 8-year-old on your family plan] not to text that number that gives you """""free""""" ringtones, but they might do it anyways leaving you stuck with a hefty bill.

      As I understand it, such family plans come with parental controls against premium-rate numbers.

  40. Cheevos on my WP7 by danparker276 · · Score: 1

    Now that I can get cheevos for xbox live on my windows phone 7, I've tossed my DS. Playing for cheevos is much for fun that having a great score on a DS game that no one can see. I got 50k Cheevos and going now!

    1. Re:Cheevos on my WP7 by leks · · Score: 1

      Now that I can get cheevos for xbox live on my windows phone 7, I've tossed my DS. Playing for cheevos is much for fun that having a great score on a DS game that no one can see. I got 50k Cheevos and going now!

      Hey Dan Sorry to break it to you but no one else checks what your 'cheevos' (achievement points) are for your xbox live profile either.

  41. Low battery! by tepples · · Score: 1

    One device less, always with you.

    And only one device's worth of battery time.

  42. Nintendo should have made a phone by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

    The writing has been on the wall for the DS for quite a while. I'm amazed it lasted this long. Back when I modded my Nintendo DS and started writing apps for it, I had friends writing apps for their iPhones. The main difference: the iPhone was 10 times as expensive as a Nintendo DS. That made the DS a better machine for school kids who could not afford a smartphone and a contract. But only a few years later, a cell phone is just part of the cost of middle-class living along with cable TV and internet. Even grade school kids are getting cell phones. So the "niche" that the DS fills is getting smaller and smaller.

    To compete, they either need to start offering the features in smart phones (calendar, web access, texting, phone calls) or offering features the smart phones don't have (significantly better gaming experience). The 3D feature in the new DS might cause a spike, but it is a novelty that won't change the trend of events.

  43. Re:Mental Health Days by angiasaa · · Score: 1

    Replied to the wrong post? Whoa for concentration! :-P

    --
    Geekism is your _only_ God!
  44. D'uh! by erroneus · · Score: 1

    DS/PSP is expensive and the games are expensive. Phones are as powerful or more powerful than DS/PSP, can be used for "other things" and the games are cheaper! What's the downside?

    Eventually, we will see more and more new premium titles on phones... especially android phones. Soon we will see more of those bluetooth gamepad cradles for phones and viola!

    1. Re:D'uh! by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      The games are more expensive because they do more and look like real games like games on phones that cater to ADD monkeys.

    2. Re:D'uh! by erroneus · · Score: 1

      It's only a matter of time before the games appear on phones. They were able to make Tombraider run on Symbian devices almost 10 years ago. They can certainly do as much on today's hardware and systems. You are seeing things as they are, not where they are capable of going.

      Besides, handheld games can never be as engaging as a console or PC game. These games are most often played while travelling or commuting. That's not to say they can't have more advanced titles and certainly that they won't because they will. There will definitely be some heavy titles for Android in the near future -- SOMEONE will do the grand experiment to test viability. The draw will be irresistible.

    3. Re:D'uh! by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      They may eventually do it but where is the incentive? People expext to pay little to nothing for their games and you're not going to produce a Dragons quest or zelda game for $0.99 a title.

      I think gaming on the N-gage was fine (minus the use of carts on a phone) but that tanked. I think they something more than touch screen controls but do so in a way without making it useless as a phone or ugly.

      I think they need to work out something for the software too. At least with the DS you get a physical cart they can't take away. I believe that's why people won't pay much for phone games. There is real guarantee you'll have it for long. If those two things get sort then I'd be happy to give them my money and I'm sure developers would put forth more effort and be able to charge more. Until then everything about mobile gaming feels throw-away and I'm not paying money for that.

  45. what kids are using by reversible+physicist · · Score: 2

    For some reason a lot of people are ignoring the obvious: the iPod touch (and old iPhone's given to kids). Away from consoles, I mostly see kids playing with these (and with their parents iPhones). One friend's kid plays with his Android phone, but she's just 1 and mostly chews on it.

  46. It's their loss by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

    The DS does a lot more and will also be a host to superior games of all genres because not only does it have a touch screen but it has a D-pad and buttons. I'd much rather use my phone for other apps and surfing the net and my DS for games.

  47. Percentage of customers or percentage of sales? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    It looks like they're talking about percentage of consumers. So a guy who buys a cheap game on his iPhone is considered equivalent to a guy who buys several games a year for his DS.

  48. Re:Mental Health Days by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

    I would like to see "Sick Days" combined with regular leave into one lump sum.

    It exists, and companies that offer it call it "Earned Time Off".

    BTW, what is the deal with both Safari and Chrome not performing cut-n-paste in slashdot?

    --
    These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
  49. Re:who are "gamers"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the first time I've questioned your idiocy. You must mistake me for one of the other anonymous cowards who realize that conversations with you are not worth logging in for.

    Why do you not answer the questions I posed? Why do you dodge them with your ad hominems?

    As for pathos... well, I'm not sure which is more pathetic -- me, who responds to a troll such as yourself, thinking that maybe I'd get an honest answer; or you, who is so pathetic that you continue to complain about a site that you continue to frequent.

    Why do you cower? Why do you avoid the questions I asked? Are they a bit uncomfortable for you?

  50. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 0

    i work from home for 6 figure salary with no fixed schedule...

    Your grammar and punctuation tell a different story. But hey, you're free to dream.

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    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  51. Re:Mental Health Days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you spend all your time chasing shadows?

    They dance around you, and you lash out, blindly, in your ignorance.

    That's the great thing about moronic trolls such as yourself -- they are so easy to bait.

    Why don't you go back to your E Drug trader website, and your online poker, and your bitching about landlords. It sure did suck when you got laid off from SST, huh?

    And that kewpee.com website? Horrendous. It looks like a geocities atrocity.

    At any rate, keep fucking that chicken. We're all counting on you for sport.

  52. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit211 · · Score: 0
    getting a year of unemployment from california at the maximum benefit level for absolutely no work certainly did suck a lot of money from somewhere.

    why were you unable to find information about my current employment? are you retarded?

    why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

    you're completely pathetic.

  53. Not really abandoning, the market is growing by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    That would be the "casual gaming" market, and of course there's more casual participants than enthusiast in any hobby. You can only charge casual gamers about $1 or $2 for a game before they start thinking they should be spending their money on better things, whereas the enthusiast crowd is apparently willing to pay $60-$100+ for their games and various special editions. I guess it's a matter of scale, which is more profitable to you and what you're capable of. The good news is that the medium is popular and there's room for many players.

  54. Probabbly NO. by Tei · · Score: 1

    What probably is happening, is that the Smarthphone gaming is gaining inertia, while the PSP and DS is has not expanded. This don't mean the people on PSP and DS is "changing" to smartphones, since probably most of the smartphones games have not appeal to these people. Most smarhphones games feel like flash games.

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

  55. I was a heavy DS user, now iPhone by bill_kress · · Score: 1

    Why would anyone continue to use a device with physical $30 cartridges when they could be downloading $0.99 games without end (and often with free previews)?

    Sure the DS games are deeper, but not 30 times deeper! Maybe 3x better in most cases.

    As though that wouldn't be enough, my DS isn't a GPS or a phone and doesn't have internet connectivity in most cases (or a usable browser), all of which I'd need to have around as well.

    I've got a few hundred $ in cartridges sitting around if anyone wants 'em (Actually, I probably have spent more in games for the DS than I would for a new iPod touch or maybe even an iPad)

  56. Everyone is forgetting about the iPod Touch by gozar · · Score: 1

    It's mentioned up above, but this point needs to be repeated. I work in a school system, and the iPod Touch is more prevalent than any of the other game systems. It's a no brainer for parents. $230, and then games are $3 or less. Versus $170 for a PSP or $150 for a DSi, plus $20-$30 a game. And then you have to worry about losing the carts. It's only 4 or 5 games until the iPod Touch is cheaper.

    Numbers don't lie, there are more games produced for iOS than every game system released since 1986 COMBINED (quantity is not indicative of quality, I know). There are now more than120 million iOS devices, more than the DS and PSP combined.

    I don't know what Nintendo has up their sleeves for portable gaming, but the 3DS isn't going to be competitive against the iPod Touch (especially if they're the same price).

    My poor DS only gets played with Activision Anthology... :-(

    --
    What, me worry?
  57. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 0

    Jesus, dude, is your cock "12 inches of steel" as well? Seriously, you protest too much. A clear sign of being full of shit.

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    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  58. Different devices, different games by LongearedBat · · Score: 1

    Try playing "serious" games on a portable device, such as SC2 and WoW. To be worth while, you kinda need the big, high-rez screen, lots of keys/buttons and the kind of really accurate and fast control that a mouse gives (or in rare cases a joystick).
    Try playing "casual" games while sitting on the train or waiting for a friend. To be possible, you kinda need it to be there with you... like your mobile phone just happens to be.
    (The inverted commas are there because I know of "casual" gamers who play and track their "casual" games as thoroughly as serious gamers.)

    For a long time the casual market was mostly ignored. Games were mostly serious games that required a gaming rig with the latest hardware, or possibly a TV game. The mind shift of putting simple games on simple devices had not yet happened. (Compare Lynx games with many newer DS games). Casual gamers seem to prefer matching things up, rather than killing things. They like short games that they can put down immediately. This suits gamers of all ages and does not repel girls. (In my experience girls love gaming, but most girls avoid games where the aim is to kill.) Aside from a lack of interest, most gamers can't afford the time or hardware to play serious games.

    So if the bulk of gamers are casual gamers, then of course the casual games industry will boom (as it is now). In the future, most games will be for casual gamers. But there will always be those who have both the time and inclination to play serious games, that require better hardware, so that market will remain. But, as device formats converge and change, and Moore's Law continues, I can imagine that gaming platforms will merge.

    For example, motion controllers can be the new joysticks (perhaps not the Wii's, but the PS3, yes). And they look good on a large HD screen. So yeah, that may put a dent in PC's. But a full culture change is required before PC's die. And cultures change slowly. Look how long it took for people to get the hint that short, simple, non-violent games could be really popular (despite really obvious hints such as the success of Tetris and Free Cell). Took a while to get the hint, eh?
    And combine perfectly adequate hardware inside TV games, with new controllers, and stereovision... Yeah, trust me, a new phase in gaming is coming. (Athough the hardware is here now, the mind shift is only beginning.)

  59. Re:Mental Health Days by gmhowell · · Score: 1

    Methinks you mixed up your meds.

    FTFY

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  60. Article sounds like me lately by Teknikal69 · · Score: 1

    I temporarily abandoned my PSP to play games on my Ipod Touch and while I still do (mainly due to it being so pocketable) there is a noticable quality difference with the PSP being the easy winner in terms of overall quality, polish, control and smoothness. I'm in the position where I have some of the same games on both systems and the only advantage IOS has is price of games and being easier to pocket. I've seen a ton of games where everyone on apple forums makes lots of noises about how this one is better than the psp and they are in my opinion always wrong. Price and Portability are apples advantages here and they are quite big ones but they aren't even close to taking on proper gaming handhelds and I'm speaking as someone who owns both and uses both. I think Sony has got it all wrong with the PSP 2 though if it is actually bigger in size than the original PSP as rumoured lets face it the original is a bit to bulky to be truly portable never mind making it bigger. I'm sure it will be powerful but if it doesn't fit in a pocket you may as well just play a home console instead. I think 3DS will probably do better than both but I do think the apple devices are improving.

  61. I don't really think they are abandoning them but. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I do see the future potential of phones to do that, but nothing the current generations of phones are brining to the table will do that.

    The main things are that:
    A) The touch screen, while good at some things, is generally a bad idea when it comes to most actual games so they will need to actually start adding actual buttons and a directional pad + analog to them.
    B) The current generation of phones just aren't capable of matching the current portables in graphical quality. Sure they can match and beat the previous generations offerings, but sorry the Iphone 4 just won't match a DS (Soon to be 3DS) or PSP offerings.
    C) There is just too much fragmentation in the specs of the phone markets leading you to cater to the lowest common denominator.
    D) Many gamers don't have or even want a cell phone or have to deal with paying that much cash for an unsubsidized phone to access the limited games on them.

    Now what I can foresee is watching Sony or Nintendo actually make their next generation (or the generation after that) into a game system the doubles as a cell phone. Kinda like the successor to the Nintendo 3DS including all the 3DS has along with 50 gigs of built in flash memory and a built in cellphone that can run with or without a SIM card and on any network. With a powerhouse like Nintendo pulling that, they could make a powerful system that works on any network or without using the cellphone at all all while keeping it at a decent price which would also open up the selling point that even if their kid doesn't have a cellphone plan, they can call 911 from anywhere so long as they have their portable game system with them.

    But sorry, there is nothing that the Iphone or Droid offers that can hope to even make a ripple into that market yet. Saying Smartphones are replacing Portable systems is about as accurate as saying that the Iphone is replacing the car stereo. Just cause one sells more, doesn't mean that it is replacing the other.

  62. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 0

    I now conclude that you are between 17 and 20, but closer to 17. Certainly you act it.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  63. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit160 · · Score: 0
    i'm 31. married with kids... own my own home where i keep my dogs and numerous firearms.

    4513 brittany ct. eau claire, wi. 54701.

    you're an idiot. certainly ur mum's face act it.

  64. correction by Internetuser1248 · · Score: 1

    No, gamers are still using PCs. It would be ok to call these people gamers if the word were qualified by saying "console gamers" or "causal gamers" but even these are inaccurate. The most correct term would be "DS, PSP users"

  65. Problem with the TV? by burnttoy · · Score: 1

    That doesn't impact the rest of "us"?

    Yeah, My girlfriend watches it!

    *ZING!*

    My computing (big towers + Linux stuff) is relegated to the back room along with the musical gear ('cept the acoustic, natch) for wandering around "computing" I've got me MacBook. That's pretty typical.

    When the boy gets a bit older then we'll probably play games together on the TV. Till then... I just use my DS

    --
    Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
  66. What adults will use. by Lashat · · Score: 1

    What if kids do not continue to drive this gaming space? I think the Mobile Gaming target is adults. Adults on the commuter train/mass transit. Adults waiting on friends at the coffee shop. Waiting for airplanes. Whose kids are watching KidShowX for the Nth time. For extended trips to the office restroom. (yes, I said it)

    --
    For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
  67. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    Your post history here at Slashdot indicates that you are mentally unhinged. There is a large probability that you beat your wife. Seek professional help before it's too late.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  68. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    I'd much more likely believe the individual that CHOOSES TO REFER TO THEMSELVES RELATIVE TO URINE...

    Coming from a nutter masquerading as "Michael Kristopeit" (a simple Web search reveals that you are not who you claim to be), it's pretty clear that you have mental issues that need to be address in a professional setting. My guess is that you're off your psych meds.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  69. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit139 · · Score: 0
    a simple web search? you're an ignorant hypocrite.

    i am michael kristopeit... NOTHING could confirm OR deny that.... however, it's obviously not a lie.

    i'm not convinced that you aren't in fact a pool of solidified urine. you have not demonstrated superior intellect. you're an idiot.

    ur mum's face have mental issues that need to be address in a professional setting.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  70. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    So tell me, when does your unemployment insurence run out? Or is your "wife" the "bread winner"? Is that why you're a little -shall we say - high strung and on the edge? Your lady wears the parts in your house?

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  71. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit139 · · Score: 0
    i work from home. i earn 6 figures... my wife used to, but took a pay cut to work in eau claire near our new home. i paid cash for my house.

    your ignorance is astounding.

    you're completely pathetic.

  72. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    i work from home. i earn 6 figures...

    Hahhhaa ha ha ha ha .... ROTFL!!! Dude.

    ...near our new home. i paid cash for my house.

    According to public records, "your" "new" house was last sold in 1999.

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    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  73. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit139 · · Score: 0
    according to my knowledge of your inability to locate factual "public" records: you're an idiot.

    i'm a senior software engineer. i've been doing it for over 10 years.

    cower some more, feeb.

    where do you live again? still afraid to make a claim?

    you're completely pathetic.

  74. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    ...where do you live again? still afraid to make a claim?

    Why the fuck would I give some pathetic psychotic Internet troll my address? I notice you don't dispute the facts surrounding "your new house"... Dude, you're not even a very good troll. But you're full of shit, that's for sure. Seriously, seek professional help before it's too late for you. If your wife hasn't left you, she's probably thinking about it!

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  75. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit139 · · Score: 0
    why wouldn't you give someone your address? what are you afraid of? you're a completely pathetic, paranoid recluse.

    uh... "inability to locate factual public records"... that is a dispute... your inability to comprehend such a dispute is very telling.

    you're an idiot.

    seek some heat... that puddle of urine is about to CRACK.

    you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING

  76. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    Where you a "bed wetter"? You show all the signs of being a bed wetting mamma's boy that was bullied in school...

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    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  77. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit139 · · Score: 0
    are you projecting? you're wrong on all counts, as usual.

    i'm 6'4" 220lbs. i collect firearms as a hobby. you know my address.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  78. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    i'm 6'4" 220lbs. i collect firearms as a hobby.

    Ahhh! Question answered! You do steroids! You're having a "Roid Rage" episode right now. That explains your bizarre behavior.

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  79. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit139 · · Score: 0
    wrong again, moron. all natural on all counts.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  80. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    The fact is, "Michael Kristopeit", you really don't show the level of intelligence necessary for "making 6 figures". You're clearly not educated beyond high school (or perhaps some 2 year technical school). I have to say that while mildly amusing, your responses really lack any quality that indicates your IQ is higher than two digits. But keep trying!

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    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  81. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit139 · · Score: 0

    wrong again. all counts. you're an idiot.

  82. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit200 · · Score: 0
    you would claim my wife has been beaten?

    present yourself to me; admit what you've done, and i will bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

    you are a pathetic coward.

    you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

  83. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit201 · · Score: 0
    you would claim with no evidence that my wife has been beaten or that i have beaten her? you are a sick individual that requires justice.

    present yourself to me; admit what you've done, and i will bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

  84. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    I'm curious, "Michael Kristopeit", where you sexually abused by a Catholic Priest?

    By the way, your responses are getting more and more pathetic. You're not putting what little mind you have left after the steroids into it.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  85. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit203 · · Score: 0
    i conclude you're an idiot.

    i'm right. you're wrong.

    you're an idiot.

    why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

    you're completely pathetic.

  86. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit204 · · Score: 0
    you're a coward. what are you afraid of?

    you're completely pathetic.

  87. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit205 · · Score: 1
    ur mum's face tell a different story.

    you're an idiot.

  88. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit206 · · Score: 0
    you don't know the difference between necessity and sufficiency. probably because you're an idiot.

    i have 2 degrees and over 10 years of industry experience. i provide the highest quality digital systems. i am a professional.

    you're a pathetic coward. what are you afraid of?

    you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

    cower some more, feeb.

  89. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    i have 2 degrees and over 10 years of industry experience. i provide the highest quality digital systems. i am a professional.

    You're a troll, and not a very good one.

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    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  90. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit208 · · Score: 0
    ur mum's face do steroids.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  91. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    Well, if you had some "thing" going with a Priest, that might explain your rage, but I'm thinking steroids are much more likely. One thing is almose certain, you're a wife beater for sure.

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  92. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit136 · · Score: 1
    keep fantasizing. you're a demented pervert, likely projecting yourself.

    you should stop thinking. you're not good at it.

    you're an idiot.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  93. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    You're seriously "mental". You need to cut back on the 'roids and take your psych meds. Also, you should see a counselor to deal with your homosexual tendencies. Does your wife know about you and the Priest?

    --
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  94. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit191 · · Score: 0
    i have no psych meds.... i've never had psych meds. i have no homosexual tendencies... you do have such tendencies in the form of projecting them on others. i've never interacted in any way with any priest.

    your continued defamation demands justice.

    present yourself to me; admit what you've done, and i'll bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

    does your mother know what the ultimate punishment is? do you think you'll survive it?

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely "pathetic".

  95. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    You really should seek professional help before you lose control and abuse any more children. The key is to try to control your urges, and not put yourself into situation where you are around young boys alone.

    --
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  96. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit191 · · Score: 0
    i have never abused any children. why do you continue your campaign of hypocritically ignorant defamation? can you not stop yourself? do you have control issues? do you have "urges"?

    present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i'll bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

    you're completely pathetic.

  97. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit138 · · Score: 0
    ur mum's face should seek professional help before you lose control and abuse any more children.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  98. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit139 · · Score: 0
    only a moron would quote IQs and "necessary intelligence" relative to employment or compensation.

    i provide a service. i am paid handsomely and appreciated.

    you provide exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

    you're completely pathetic.

  99. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    i have never abused any children.

    Of course you're in denial about it. But you have to ask: Why did your wife leave you? Get help before you hurt another child.

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  100. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit188 · · Score: 0
    you're living in a fantasy land you've created relative to me.

    my wife never left me. you're an idiot.

    ur mum's face hurt another child.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  101. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    Denial is a part of your sickness, "Michael Kristopeit" as is living your fantasy world. Please get help before you hurt another little boy.

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  102. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit188 · · Score: 0
    i'm not sick. perhaps you are projecting your own problems on others.

    i am michael kristopeit. i present myself as michael kristopeit...

    you present yourself as urine.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  103. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    i'm not sick. i am michael kristopeit. i present myself as michael kristopeit...

    You'll never get better until you accept your flaws and your sickness, stop using steroids, and stop beating your wife and stay away from teenage boys.

    By the way, what school did you go to? You know, you might be able to get mental health services through them. But I think you "several degrees" are part of your fantasy.

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  104. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit188 · · Score: 0
    i'm not sick. i have never used steroids. i have never beat my wife. i have no reason to stay away from teenage boys, and considering i have children of my own, it would be an impossibility.

    i graduated from the university of wisconsin.

    why do you cower behind your chosen urine based pseudonym? what are you afraid of?

    divulge your name. divulge your address. did you attend any establishment of higher education? do you currently hold employment?

    you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

    you're completely pathetic.

    cower some more, feeb.

  105. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit188 · · Score: 0
    you take "mental health" days because you are not mentally heathy. your employer would be wise to stop giving you anything.

    you have spent your day insinuating that i beat my wife and engage in illicit sex acts with religious figures despite my repeated claims that i have not, and despite having any evidence that i would or have. you're a pathological liar who chooses to fantasize about homosexual rape and the abuse of women.

    you cower behind a chosen urine based pseudonym, refusing to divulge the address of your current residence.

    what are you afraid of?

    you can't even post under the correct story.

    you're completely pathetic.

  106. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit188 · · Score: 0
    i would like to see "you" in the "ground".

    who goes around claiming people beat their wife and were raped by religious figures, while holding no evidence?

    society would be inclined to dispose of you.

    you are completely pathetic.

    enjoy your "mental health" day tomorrow... and every day after.

  107. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit187 · · Score: 1
    ur mum's face're free to dream.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  108. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit187 · · Score: 1
    i work from home full time and i'm paid a salary.. i'm a senior software engineer for a washington based company... here is the average pay scale... i'm paid on the high end, probably because my skills are on the high end, and the quality of work i produce is on the highest end.

    my wife is paid hourly... she is an occupational therapist and paid fairly.

    what do you do again? do you have a job? what is your name? what is your address? who is your employer?

    why do you cower behind a chosen urine based pseudonym? what are you afraid of?

    you're completely pathetic.

  109. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    i graduated from the university of wisconsin.

    Not according to their Alumni web site.

    i have no reason to stay away from teenage boys

    Denial is part of your sickness. Counselling can help you understand that your perversion is a sickness. Considering your "problem" with teenage boys, one wonders if your own children are hiding sad and disgusting secrets about you. Of course it will come out in the end, it always does. Get help now and you might avoid jail.

    --
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  110. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit152 · · Score: 1
    google maps also reports my address doesn't exist... that must mean my house isn't real.

    you're an idiot.

    your inability to access correct information is very telling.

    avoid jail? for what? killing you? do you think i'm going to kill you? do you think i want you to think i am going to kill you? why else would i go to jail? why would you suggest such a thing? i have no criminal record. i have no "problem". do you?

    i graduated from the university of wisconsin. i did so in 3.5 years majoring in computer science and mathematics. while there i received an undergraduate research grant from the national science foundation. and was a member of upsilon pi epsilon computer science honor society.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  111. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    google maps also reports my address doesn't exist..

    Not so. You simply don't know how to use Google. I had no problems finding the house you *say* you just bought, yet public records say was last sold in 1999. One more of your delusions, obviously.

    i graduated from the university of wisconsin. i did so in 3.5 years majoring in computer science and mathematics. while there i received an undergraduate research grant from the national science foundation. and was a member of upsilon pi epsilon computer science honor society.

    Yes, of course you did, but they keep it secret, and that's why there is no record that supports any of your fantastic story.

    Seriously, get help. You perversions will lead to jail if you do not. When your fellow jail inmates discover that you're in jail for sex crimes involving young boys, you will not last long.

    --
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  112. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit214 · · Score: 1
    i assure you, i know how to use google. i also assure you, my house is not in the intersection where is marked on the map, nor does a "habitat for humanity" exist anywhere on my culdesac or the adjoining streets.

    considering searching for my name and the university of wisconsin on the very same service providers web search tool that you claim to "know how to use", results in a list of university articles about my research grant while an undergrad, i'm left unsure whether you're an idiot, or you just want people to think you are.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic. enjoy your "mental health" day. you are broken.

  113. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    You suffer from dangerous psychotic delusions, "Michael Kristopeit", because you refuse to take your psych meds. You use steroids and suffer from manic "Roid Rage". You are a danger to yourself and other due to your drug use and gun ownership. Your inability to use proper grammar and correct spelling indicate that you were not a successful student. In all likelihood, you are a Help Desk Code Monkey.

    You need professional help.

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  114. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit215 · · Score: 0
    i have told nothing but the truth.

    you have told nothing but defamatory lies.

    cower some more... maybe fantasize about priest rape and little boys again.

    ur mum's face need professional help.

    you're exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING

    you're completely pathetic.

  115. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    maybe fantasize about priest rape and little boys

    You really need to seek professional help. You fantasies are dangerous.

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  116. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit215 · · Score: 0
    you fantasies? freudian? projecting?

    you're an ignorant hypocrite.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  117. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    You seriously need to consider going back on your psych meds before you hurt your wife or children, not to mention the poor street boys you pick up and abuse.

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  118. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit201 · · Score: 0
    i never had psych meds. i've told you that. YOU ARE FANTASIZING ABOUT THEM. just like you did the priest rape and the wife beating.

    consider how long you have to live and how your continued actions might contribute to altering such considerations going forward.

    present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i will bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

    you're completely pathetic.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING

  119. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    ...present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i will bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions...

    Ah, a "Jesus" complex. Typical of abusers. I see that you have moved around quite a bit. What are you running from?

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  120. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit216 · · Score: 1
    keep rationalizing everything with the "complexes" presented to you. you're a mindless idiot. you know nothing of me. you are a defamatory liar. you will receive justice.

    i go where i'm demanded... you've seen that i am in quite a bit of demand.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  121. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    I see you've moved around a lot. What are you running from?

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  122. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit216 · · Score: 1
    i see you're incapable of identifying an asked and answered question. or perhaps you just want people to think you are? do you need another "mental health" day?

    me and my wife are both in high demand. we are often offered positions that provide free housing and double pay to move to an area for a few months. i traveled all over the world SEEKING ADVENTURE. RUNNING FROM NOTHING.

    you spend your time cowering in my shadow afraid to release your location.

    you're a paranoid, delusional freak who often fantasizes about wife beating and man on man rape.

    you're completely pathetic.

  123. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    I ran a background check on your name. I'm not talking about "all over the world". You seem to be running from something.

    How many restraining orders do you have against you? I can look it up, you know.

    The solution to your problems is two-fold: start taking your psych meds, and lay off the steroids. This will bring you back down to earth, and level you out. You'll start to see the destructiveness of your ways.

    --
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  124. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit216 · · Score: 1
    considering you've claimed you've already looked it up and yet failed to point any out, or even lie about it as you have demonstrated yourself capable, i'm sure you can guess exactly how many items are on ANY criminal record attributable to my given name.

    ur mum's face'll start to see the destructiveness of your ways.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  125. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    ...considering you've claimed...

    Yes, " Michael Kristopeit", paranoia is also part of your sickness. You need help NOW. If you can't afford it, you can always simply go to an Emergency Room.

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  126. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit216 · · Score: 1
    i'm paranoid to point out that a someone who has claimed i have beaten my wife and been raped by a man is a liar?

    you're an idiot.

    do you not travel because you're not in demand?

    do you believe meds are the cure to every problem because you rely on them?

    do you believe i'm on steroids because you're again projecting your own dependance on foreign substance and your scrawny nature?

    enjoy your "mental health day"... i'm sure your intellect will be in the same condition tomorrow.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  127. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit216 · · Score: 1
    you're a liar.

    why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

    you're completely pathetic.

  128. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit217 · · Score: 1
    you are a liar... likely projecting your on personal problems on others.

    you couldn't come up with your own "term" to "lie" about me "suffering" from? do you just blindly and mindlessly and idiotically repeat everything you hear?

    i do not suffer. i do not have any delusions.

    you chose to cower behind a chosen pseudonym relative to urine.

    you're completely pathetic.

  129. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    do you not travel because you're not in demand?

    Actually, I just got back from 4 weeks in Italy. But you know what? You sound to me like you might be a "disgruntled" MUSLIM, which coincides perfectly with you domestic violence issues.

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  130. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit215 · · Score: 0
    i have no domestic violence issues... you are continually lying in a attempt of defamation. you're failing miserably, stumbling over your own inept ability to gather correct information. you're an idiot.

    there is no "you" to go anywhere... you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING

    cower some more, feeb.

    go cry to yourself on your "mental health" day... YOU HAVE ADMITTED TO HAVING AN INTELLECT THAT REQUIRE REPAIR.

    are you taking enough meds?

  131. Re:Mental Health Days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I ran a background check on your name. I'm not talking about "all over the world". You seem to be running from something.

    Now THIS I have to see. I always knew that asshole was deranged. Can you upload it somewhere and post a link?

  132. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    ...i have no domestic violence issues...

    You need to get over your DENIAL. You beat your wife and abuse your children, it's a fact. I would bet you've had at least one restraining order. You are known to cruise the streets for runaway boys to practice your perversions on. YOU NEED HELP.

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  133. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit216 · · Score: 1
    why would i stop denying your lies? why do you continue to attempt them?

    why do you cower in my shadow? what are you afraid of?

    you're completely pathetic.

    if you take one step on my doorstep, i will fire a shotgun into your face.

    cower some more, feed.

    you're exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING

    ur mum's face NEED HELP.

  134. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    The fact that you keep changing your User Name shows that it is YOU that are "pathertic". So sad, so very sad are you that you have to keep getting new accounts.

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  135. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    The fact that you are using multiple User Names to the extent that you are is a perfect expression of your schizophrenia... YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP!

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  136. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit139 · · Score: 0
    i am a single person... i am michael kristopeit. i have never claimed to be anyone except michael kristopeit. your screaming and bold facing false diagnosis' including fantasies of rape and molestation and beating women tell an entirely different story.

    you need to be destroyed.

    present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i'll bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

    with a gun.

  137. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    By the looks of it, you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

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  138. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit139 · · Score: 0
    i have claimed to be michael kristopeit. i am michael kristopeit.

    you're an ignorant hypocrite, and seemingly blind on top of a manic fantasizer of homosexual rape and child molestation.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  139. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    You keep coming back for more. PATHETIC.

    Me? I have plenty of time, as I don't work - my family made their money in the Stock Market years ago, I haven't worked a day in my life.

    But you claim to have a job.

    What I think is that you're a fat Momma's Boy who lives in your parent's basement, and masturbates to perverted pornography.

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  140. Re:Mental Health Days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and masturbates to perverted pornography.

    He admitted his attraction to scat and his wife's penchant for bestiality quite a while back, IIRC.

  141. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit139 · · Score: 0
    more baseless claims of perversion.

    keep projecting coward.

    you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING

  142. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    You're mentally unhinged. You refuse to take your psych meds while abusing steroids. You have indicated in the past a desire for sexual perversions that involve violence and underage males. You need help.

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  143. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit217 · · Score: 0
    i'm perfectly healthy.... you're the one that requires numerous "mental health days" while remaining unable to post your claims under a relevant story.

    i have indicated nothing but my intentions to bring justice upon you.

    present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i will bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

    ur mum's face need help

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  144. Re:Mental Health Days by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 0

    Your problem is that you have delusions of grandeur . What is most likely is that you live with your mother and are posting all your nonsense from a public library.

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  145. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit138 · · Score: 0
    i have repeated told you that i own my own home. i've given you the address. you don't believe me, and otherwise fantasize about homosexual rape, the abuse of women, and molestation of children because YOU ARE A DEFAMATORY LIAR WHO WILL BRING UPON THEMSELVES JUSTICE.

    present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i will brink upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic. another "mental health day" from the job you claim you have, but at the same time claim you've never had a job because your family made it big in the stock market?

    try some more lies. you're obviously very committed to developing the skill.

    i am going to put a stop to you.

  146. Re:Mental Health Days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i am going to put a stop to you.

    Is that before or after you record your wife taking the knot and post it on ZooTube?

  147. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit138 · · Score: 0
    why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

    you're completely pathetic.

  148. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit138 · · Score: 0
    your problem is that you believe EVERYONE has a problem... that is probably because everyone you've ever met HAS BEEN FORCED TO MEET YOU.

    you are a useless idiot. lie some more. contradict yourself. take a "mental health day". accuse some more people of beating their wives and being raped by religious figures.

    JUSTICE IS COMING.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

  149. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit138 · · Score: 0
    you think i'm grand?

    i OWN you.

  150. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit220 · · Score: 1
    ur mum's face've moved around a lot.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

    do you desire death?

  151. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit221 · · Score: 1
    hmmmmm.... first you referenced

    ...my employer...

    then later claim...

    I don't work

    i'm sure your "family" is "proud" of your contradictions...

    do you desire death? why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

    you're completely pathetic.

    present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i will bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

  152. Re:Mental Health Days by MichaelKristopeit222 · · Score: 1
    perhaps you need some "mental health days" as the diagnosis you offer free of charge have not once proven to be anywhere near correct.

    you are a paranoid delusional recluse. an ignorant hypocrite unwilling to make a claim to your identity.

    do you desire death? why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

    you're completely pathetic.

    present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i will bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

  153. Odd and I disagree by mkw87 · · Score: 1

    I think this is a bit of a play on statistics. You can make data read whatever you want, you can make conclusions seem valid by leaving certain info out, etc. There is a tremendous uptick in smart phone users, and with all the major mobile os'es there is a bunch of games. However, these games are mainly ways to pass the time waiting on a bus, in an airport, or during a boring meeting. There are a lot of games on the DS/PSP designed to do this, and some users will probably stick with just a smart phone in the future, true gamers will continue to purchase and use the DS/PSP for the games that are more involved.

    --
    Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.