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Hank Chien Reclaims Donkey Kong High Score

An anonymous reader writes "If you can say anything about Hank Chien, it's that he evidently doesn't take defeat very well. Sure, he knew not so deep down that his Donkey Kong World Record score wouldn't last forever, but he couldn't have foreseen that it would have been toppled so quickly. Twice, even. But he also knew that more Kong competition would be coming his way; namely Richie Knucklez Kong-Off in March. So Hank had something to prove, and prove he did. Scoring a massive 1,068,000 points in less than three hours, Hank has officially reclaimed the high score in Nintendo’s 1981 arcade classic."

122 comments

  1. My Hero by Danzigism · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can't help but to admire people like this.

    --
    *plays the Apogee theme song music*
    1. Re:My Hero by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I guess it was on like Donkey Kong (tm)...

      Anyway, goes to show that even if you're an old geezer, you still have the reflexes to beat some young punks...

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:My Hero by arth1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      With Donkey Kong, it's not about reflexes but rather the opposite: anticipating, so you don't run yourself into a situation you can't get out of, and pixel/frame precision, so you jump at exactly the right time and spot.
      For high score chasing, judicious use of the powerup is also rather important, and this has to be planned, not done by reflex.

      I'm personally not too impressed with Donkey Kong, Frogger and Pac Man scores, cause it's mostly repetitive action.
      I'm much more impressed with masters of Defender, which requires reflexes, precision steering, and being able to handle a boatload of buttons. It's fiendishly difficult in its simplicity.

    3. Re:My Hero by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 1

      Have you ever tried playing Robotron? Just two joysticks in place of the boatload of buttons and the levels are randomly generated. The sheer number of enemies you have to handle at once (while collecting people for points to keep you alive) makes for one of the most intense old-school arcades out there. My current MAME obsession.

      --
      Happy people make bad consumers.
    4. Re:My Hero by GreenSeven · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Even though it's "just a video game", the dedication it takes to practice like you need to to get a world record says something about your character. I'd give this guy a job in a heart beat...

      --
      The Copper Tribe - Office Software Solutions
    5. Re:My Hero by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Get a high enough score without cheating and the aliens will teleport you to their recruitment facility.

      --
    6. Re:My Hero by Bemopolis · · Score: 1

      "Well, it's been a long time, Stargate Defender." "Indeed. It. Has. Dave."

      Now if you'll excuse me, I have an old sandwich waiting for me on the porch.

      --
      "I guess the moral of the story is, don't paint your airship with rocket fuel." -- Addison Bain
    7. Re:My Hero by wanerious · · Score: 1

      Wow --- blast from the past. I remember playing with a friend of mine in 9th grade at a local pizza joint. We each got good enough to roll it (I think that was level > 255) and play all day on a quarter each. That was really the way to do it since we got a break after each of us died. What a rush that game was.

    8. Re:My Hero by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Robotron was a favourite of mine.
      I remember screwing two Competition Pro joysticks to a sturdy board just for the few games that would use two joysticks.

    9. Re:My Hero by grikdog · · Score: 1

      In GTA Chinatown Wars, Mission #33 Dragon-Haul-Z is of this ilk. It seems designed to fry the nerves of adrenalin phreaques with a one-two punch. Most of the pixelbangers complaining about it seem to be 12-year-olds. That'll teach 'em to play a game rated 17+ before they're able to see the joke, let alone get it. If you're not sure who is and who isn't, read the T. "I'm so cool God is my fangirl" doesn't cut it.

      --
      ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
    10. Re:My Hero by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 1

      Hate to be a jerk, but you know what? It is very easy for me to not admire guys like this.

  2. The King of Kong 2: Kong Harder by Buggz · · Score: 4, Informative

    I actually feel a bit bad for Steve "The King of Kong" Wiebe. Such a lovely film/documentary. I reckon he'll flex those Kong muscles once again and beat that score before summer.

    1. Re:The King of Kong 2: Kong Harder by lordkuri · · Score: 3, Informative

      He actually already had a big meet and greet along with 3 world record attempts scheduled for this coming Saturday here in Chicago.

      http://www.logan-hardware.com/

    2. Re:The King of Kong 2: Kong Harder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wiebe will be making a public attempt in Chicago in four days.

      http://www.logan-hardware.com/

    3. Re:The King of Kong 2: Kong Harder by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      BTW, Logan Hardware is a cool store. Nice people.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:The King of Kong 2: Kong Harder by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Everything I've read about "The King of Kong" indicates that it's more fiction than fact.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    5. Re:The King of Kong 2: Kong Harder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank God it's not Billy Mitchell reclaiming the score. I don't root against many people, but that guy is just awful.

    6. Re:The King of Kong 2: Kong Harder by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Everything I've read about "The King of Kong" indicates that it's more fiction than fact.

      Well, yeah, it's a documentary.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    7. Re:The King of Kong 2: Kong Harder by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 1

      Everything I've read about "The King of Kong" indicates that it's more fiction than fact.

      I've heard "victims" make the same complaints, that it was a hacked up character assassination of Billy Mitchell and his cronies. Then I watched the supposed unbiased documentary "Chasing Ghosts: Beyond the Arcade" and found out that, yes, in fact Billy Mitchell is a twat.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
  3. Well done!!! by bazmail · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think its a shame that he was omitted from "The King of Kong" movie. Wiebe took Hanks score and there wasn't so much of a mention of Hank. He's a good guy and Im happy for him. Also it there a theoretical maximum score for donkey kong? Just wondering what the asymptote is.

    1. Re:Well done!!! by Buggz · · Score: 1

      Aha! I was wondering why I hadn't heard about him..

      As far as I remember - the movie touched this subject - there's no theoretical limit to the achievable score, but the kill screen usually thwarts each attempt when reaching those heights, doesn't it?

    2. Re:Well done!!! by gazbo · · Score: 3, Informative
      Well there is a theoretical limit because of the time limit per board and the kill screen, but figuring it out would be very hard (and achieving it practically impossible). It would first involve figuring out the optimum strategy assuming that the various enemies behaved in certain ways - e.g. the fireballs on the pie factory all respawning and immediately heading towards you while you have the mallet, the fireballs and blue barrels all being worth 800 points, etc, etc.

      But the odds of this happening are probably on a par with winning the lottery many times over. If the PRNG decides a blue barrel is worth 300 then that's 500 points lost and nothing the player can do about it. And the optimum strategy for a theoretical perfect game is probably very different to the optimum strategy for a typical game.

    3. Re:Well done!!! by franciscohs · · Score: 1

      I don't think there is a possible absolute perfect score, since score depends on number of barrels you jump and barrels you smash with the hammer, but at the same time, the bonus score (earned at the end of the level) is decreased as time goes by, so you can't keep jumping barrels to earn score. (it turns out to be increasingly difficult too)

    4. Re:Well done!!! by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      plus there is the side fact that the PRNG is NOT a true random number generator. So it is quite possible that getting perfect results from it every time is impossible.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    5. Re:Well done!!! by gazbo · · Score: 1

      Oh God, you're right. That makes it even harder to calculate an optimum strategy. Maybe you're better off pausing for a fraction of a second and getting 300 for one fireball, so that you get higher points for that 8 barrel sequence that will reach you a few levels later (for those who don't know, the PRNG in dkong is really just the system clock). So there is still a theoretical highest-possible score (obviously, as you can't achieve an infinite score), but you'd have to be insane to figure out what it was.

    6. Re:Well done!!! by HiChris! · · Score: 2

      He wasn't mentioned in the movie, since it was watching the movie that inspired him to start playing.

    7. Re:Well done!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course there is. That's a totally ignorant thing to say.

    8. Re:Well done!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't seem like it should be hard to "calculate" an optimum strategy. With millisecond definition, there aren't even 100 million ways to play a 3 hour game. If you could reliably model the chip, ancient as it is, I'd think you could get an answer next week with some spare community cycles.

    9. Re:Well done!!! by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

      So a Tool-Assisted run may be necessary?

    10. Re:Well done!!! by gazbo · · Score: 1

      I don't think that's right. With millisecond resolution (which is the resolution of the clock, but the input event loop will be much slower no doubt) you could pick any one second, and then have 3^1000 combinations of either moving left, moving right, or doing nothing for each tick in that second. As I say, the actual input response will be far slower, but even if it's 1/10th of a second, you only need a few seconds to get an astronomical number. Playing every possible game is entirely unfeasible. You could try to prune it, but even that is non-trivial. A left or right move can affect the behaviour of any barrel on a higher level, for example.

    11. Re:Well done!!! by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      This is where the risk/reward idea alluded to in the article comes into play. There are play strategies that will maximize your score on average, but are slightly more dangerous. Let's say these work 10% of the time, increasing your score by 20%, and the other 90% of the time they crash and burn. Almost all of the time, this a losing approach. The more conservative player will avoid these, because it means almost all of your games are useless. But eventually, someone playing with that aggressive style will stumble on the magic game where enough risky gambits go their way, if they just keep playing over and over again without any concern for typical performance. Now, the real numbers aren't like that; it might be a 1% reward for a 10% risk instead. But there's just now getting to be enough games played at this level to start even estimating statistics like that.

      I suspect this is why Billy Mitchell remains such a overconfident guy here. He has such a head start on the others working this problem I expect he already has the more aggressive play worked out. He just ramps up use of those techniques as needed when the competitors catch up with him again. He's just the sort of dick to have worked all that out twenty years ago, and is just reeling out the knowledge as needed. I actually like the guy for the way he's a devious no holds-barred competitor. Messing with your opponents psyche by things like quitting your game the minute you've beat their old score is a classic all out technique.

    12. Re:Well done!!! by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Seems like we have an AC who doesn't understand exponentials.

      Suppose the game used a 10Hz tick (it's probablly faster) and at each tick there were 4 possible combinations inputs (there are probablly more). In 3 hours that's 4^36000 = 2^720 > 10^216 (2^10 > 10^3) possible combinations of inputs.

      Of course most of those will be stupid but there is still an unimaginablly large number of sane possibilities.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    13. Re:Well done!!! by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 1

      It sucks that the producers didn't create a time machine so that he could have been in a movie. "King of Kong" is a hacked up pack of lies.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    14. Re:Well done!!! by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Suppose the game used a 10Hz tick (it's probablly faster) and at each tick there were 4 possible combinations inputs (there are probablly more). In 3 hours that's 4^36000 = 2^720 > 10^216 (2^10 > 10^3) possible combinations of inputs.
      opps sorry those are the figures for one hour. still makes the point though.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  4. This why Rome fell by Madman · · Score: 4, Funny

    Rome had bread and circuses, now we have contests for old games. When a civilization has the time to waste on things like this it's the beginning of the end.

    1. Re:This why Rome fell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Rome had bread and circuses, now we have contests for old games.

      And thus we prove that any civilisation with both bread and circuses is pretty much over. They should build that into Civ VI but it might be a bit TOO much realism - "three people in your empire are playing Donkey Kong excessively, you have three rounds to stamp it out or lose the game".

    2. Re:This why Rome fell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You should be much more concerned that only a couple of weeks after Black Ops came out, players had spent 300 million man hours playing the game.

    3. Re:This why Rome fell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Are we talking about civilization or U.S.?

    4. Re:This why Rome fell by krou · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Uh ... bread and circuses was not the reason Rome fell, just one of many reasons.

      And I think you quite miss the point of the effect of "bread and circuses" contributing to the fall of Rome. It was because millions in taxpayer money were being spent on bread and circuses (like a form of dole) for the non-working poor, and this had economic effects (obviously) when combined with other factors.

      All these expenditures had to be recovered from the taxpayer. To compound the difficulties, there was an adverse balance of trade. Roman currency, for example, poured into India and the East to pay for luxuries. Even in the time of Nero, Seneca estimated that it cost Rome five million dollars a year to import its luxuries from the East. In a word, though seemingly prosperous, in the second century AD the Roman empire was overspending to such an extent that it was moving to an economic crisis. When in 167 AD Marcus Aurelius was faced by the attack of the Germanic Marcomanni and Quadi, he was forced to sell, is it were, the crown jewels as well as the household furnishing of his palace to finance the war.

      When the US government starts spending millions of taxpayer money on Donkey Kong contests, then we can worry about it the role old computer games have on the destruction of modern civilization.

      The only thing you could say here, really, is that this may be a symptom of overall decay, not a reason.

      --
      'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
    5. Re:This why Rome fell by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 1

      So you want to go back to the pre-Industrial era where there's no leisure time (at least for the non state subsidized)? Count me out! And I'll get off your lawn, too.

      --
      SSC
    6. Re:This why Rome fell by ledow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sod contests for old games. We have popularity contests beamed to your own personal section of the planet so you can judge people remotely using buttons without having to get out of the chair. We have people who've never touched soil eating nutritional balanced, rich, processed food every single day. We have people who spend most of their time tapping buttons to post ignored opinions on global virtual messageboards that nobody ever reads again.

      There are any number of ways of not being productive. The better we are at doing things like growing food and producing things that save time, the more time we have to deliberately do nothing at all. 100 years ago, nobody had TIME to spend 8 hours a day updating their friends about what they did that day, even if those friends lived in the same house.

      People doing nothing is actually a sign of how easy it is to stay alive with modern equipment and infrastructure and how little knowledge is required to survive in that atmosphere (I have absolutely no idea/experience about how to grow enough food to feed my family... do you?).

      That said, I do think that this is hardly "news" even for a geek. So the guy got a new highscore in an old game. Good for him. And he probably spent months dreaming about the damn game, destroying his muscles and turning his mind to mush in order to achieve that "fame". That's his problem. In my entire life, I can't imagine it ever taking more than a second to acknowledge, even if I *was* interested in the exact area we're discussing. But yet I can afford five minutes to say what a waste of time it is. Modern life, eh? Truly wonderful. :-)

    7. Re:This why Rome fell by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Come on, it's only a handful of people in the entire world that do this.

      --
      No sig today...
    8. Re:This why Rome fell by ledow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Good illustration. That's 34,000 man-years. 34,000 men for a year, or one man for 34,000 years (i.e. about 500 lifetimes). The pyramids didn't need that. The Apollo missions probably didn't need that. Most of modern physics and mathematics could have been discovered in that (it's like Archimedes still being alive and just as productive right through to the current day, and still only one-sixteenth of the way of the way through his useful working life).

      To put it in context, though, going to the toilet takes much more time than that, per person, over the course of a single life (so multiplied by 6 billion, it's quite a lot of total "wasted man-hours"). We waste inordinate amounts of time doing silly things that aren't strictly necessary, too. Productivity can only be measured on a personal level, not a numerical one. Was Alexander Fleming productive enough (or incited enough productivity in others through his discoveries) even if he was also an accomplished glass-blower? (And that actually helped him make further discoveries in unrelated fields). How do you measure something like that? And how much do we waste in actual wars? I bet it's orders-of-magnitude more, given the budget allocated to it (and thus the tax etc. used to generate it, and the work used to generate that, etc. etc. etc.).

      Adding it up, it's a waste of time that could theoretically be used doing better things. On a personal level? Fuck off, I want to play Counterstrike sometimes to rest and actually have a life, not be a machine. Both points of view are equally valid. Neither will ever change except in small details. And posting on Slashdot to complain about it, like the OP did, is probably the *greatest* hypocrisy ever. Let's take five minutes to hit buttons to send a comment over thousands of km of copper and infrastructure so that lots of other people can ignore it and nobody ever benefit from it.

    9. Re:This why Rome fell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      at least he won't get laid and won't reproduce, so no need to worry.

    10. Re:This why Rome fell by e70838 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I take my sudoku when I go to the toilets.

    11. Re:This why Rome fell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good illustration. That's 34,000 man-years. 34,000 men for a year, or one man for 34,000 years (i.e. about 500 lifetimes). The pyramids didn't need that. The Apollo missions probably didn't need that. Most of modern physics and mathematics could have been discovered in that (it's like Archimedes still being alive and just as productive right through to the current day, and still only one-sixteenth of the way of the way through his useful working life).

      To put it in context, though, going to the toilet takes much more time than that, per person, over the course of a single life

      Each person over the course of a single life spends more than 34,000 years going to the toilet?

    12. Re:This why Rome fell by anti-pop-frustration · · Score: 0

      So reality TV, Sarah Palin, American Idol and Fox News are all perfectly fine... but a guy playing Donkey Kong is the end of civilization?

      Sure, video games are pointless time wasters, the opium of the people... as oppose to commenting on slashdot, which as we all know, is the last bastion of resistance preventing the downfall of the western world.

      "Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted." -John Lennon

    13. Re:This why Rome fell by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      That's 34,000 man-years. 34,000 men for a year, or one man for 34,000 years (i.e. about 500 lifetimes). The pyramids didn't need that.

      I'm sorry, you're flat-out wrong. The pyramids took more than 34 thousand man-years to build.

      According to Herodotus, the Great Pyramid took 20 years to build and required the labor of 100,000 men. At just 8 hours a day that's 58,440 man-years, but the "builders" probably worked much longer days...

      Note: That's just ONE pyramid, not "the pyramids," which would imply all of them.

    14. Re:This why Rome fell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      At just 8 hours a day that's 58,440 man-years, but the "builders" probably worked much longer days...

      Probably not all year round though. They probably stopped to do useful stuff in the appropriate seasons.

    15. Re:This why Rome fell by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "Rome had bread and circuses, now we have contests for old games. When a civilization has the time to waste on things like this it's the beginning of the end."

      OTOH, if bread and circuses cease to exist, so does civilization.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    16. Re:This why Rome fell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rome had bread and circuses, now we have contests for old games. When a civilization has the time to waste on things like this it's the beginning of the end.

      Funny, most historical texts that I've read suggest the real reason that Rome fell was the rampant homosexuality and hedonism. It's a very common misnomer that it was the lead in the Aquaducts (lead acts as a water purifier).

    17. Re:This why Rome fell by ledow · · Score: 1

      Far too many assumptions:

      1) That's accurate (i.e. an Ancient Greek who could judge accurately how many separate people were involved on a 20 year Egyptian project 1500 years before his time without exaggeration)
      2) The builder's ALL worked an 8 hour day, every single day, even religious festivals (and there wasn't, say, one man who knew how to do the bottom bits and then slunk off, or only lifted one stone before breaking his back, etc.) during the night, etc. on hard heavy-labour, as did every architect, priest, tile-polisher, boatsman etc. and there was never a flood, or rainstorms, or other problems that stopped work for even a single guy.
      3) The Egyptian pyramids weren't slave-built (actually they were quite decently treated for the time) - so "the builders" probably worked no harder than anyone else, especially if it meant burning oil to be able to see.

      Allow me to link to a really crappy, kiddies article: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/pyramids/pyramids.html

      "Contrary to some popular depictions, the pyramid builders were not slaves or foreigners."
      "Some of the builders were permanent employees of the pharaoh. Others were conscripted for a limited time from local villages."
      "An estimated 20,000 to 30,000 workers built the Pyramids at Giza over 80 years. Much of the work probably happened while the River Nile was flooded." (suggesting 1.6m man-years assuming 24/7 working, or 53,000 man-years on a working-day, less than your estimate)

      And that's the pyramids (plural), not your unfounded estimate of a pyramid (singular).

      I'd be extremely surprised if there was more than 30,000 man years of productive work overall, and probably a lot less.

    18. Re:This why Rome fell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're confusing "blacks" with "poor people". It's an understandable mistake, but still incorrect.

    19. Re:This why Rome fell by Stooshie · · Score: 2

      Bread and circuses wasn't a reason at all. It was a symptom.

      --
      America, Home of the Brave. ... .and the Squaw.
    20. Re:This why Rome fell by operagost · · Score: 1

      Contrary to popular belief, primitive people have plenty of free time and don't spend all day hunting animals and running away from animals. They just don't have awesome games like Donkey Kong to fill their time. They have to do boring stuff like sing songs and make babies.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    21. Re:This why Rome fell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lose the game

      Well played, sir. Well played.

    22. Re:This why Rome fell by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Yeah, god forbid that anyone actually have some fun and enjoy themselves. We must all be cogs in the glorious machine!

    23. Re:This why Rome fell by albyrne5 · · Score: 1

      Please cite even one of these texts. Also, please check the meaning of "misnomer" in the dictionary.

    24. Re:This why Rome fell by brainboyz · · Score: 1

      I know this is Slashdot, but making babies isn't boring. HAVING them, yes, but making them is quite fun.

    25. Re:This why Rome fell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And don't forget the civilizations bred in a circus. I'm sure they're having a pretty good go of things these days.

    26. Re:This why Rome fell by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Please cite even one of these texts.

      Also, please check the meaning of "misnomer" in the dictionary.

      I tried looking for "misnomer" in the dictionary and I couldn't find it. The closest I could find was "Misnom, Erin", and the definition was "555-0039".

      People are always telling me to look things up in the dictionary, but really, I don't think it helps.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    27. Re:This why Rome fell by krnpimpsta · · Score: 1

      I want to play Counterstrike sometimes to rest and actually have a life

      Best. Sentence. Ever.

      :)

      --

      New webcomic updated on Sundays: HERE

    28. Re:This why Rome fell by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1

      Funny, most historical texts that I've read suggest the real reason that Rome fell was the rampant homosexuality and hedonism.

      Then I suggest you read actual history books, rather than the ones put out by Southern Baptist seminaries. Homosexuality and hedonism were common in Rome long before Rome fell. The main causes were (1) vast amounts of wealth in very few hands, (2) constant military aggression, and (3) corruption of various types.

      Of course, like you, the Romans wanted to blame something else on their downfall. So, they blamed Christians, much the same way you blame homosexuals, liberals, and anyone else you don't like.

    29. Re:This why Rome fell by mister_playboy · · Score: 1

      But the government already spends billions on welfare for corporations, which is equally useless.

      Fixed that for you.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    30. Re:This why Rome fell by corrie · · Score: 1

      What terrible math!

      80years * 20,000men = 1,600,000 man years (24hrs, 7 days/wk)
      i.e: 533,333 man years (8hrs, 7 days/wk)
      i.e. 380,952 man years (8 hrs, 5 days/wk)

      If everyone of the 20K workers were sick half of the time:
      190,476 man years (8 hrs, 5 days/wk, but not working 50% of the time)

      Using your data, the pyramids at Giza took 5.5 times longer to build than people have been playing COD:BO, and that's if they were a bunch of slackers who took a sickie every other day!

    31. Re:This why Rome fell by GasparGMSwordsman · · Score: 1

      The Apollo missions probably didn't need that.

      Actually if you look at the total personal budget for the life time of the Apollo missions it actually take considerably more time than 34,000 man years. First you take the actual NASA teams which included the mission staff, engineers, astronauts, support personnel and backup teams. Next you include all of the personnel needed to design, manufacture, transport and assemble all of the equipment. Lastly you have all of the military and recovery personnel.

      The best number I have found quotes that more than 400,000 people were involved in the project for about 10 years. That gives us a total of about 4 million man years. (Citations 48 and 49)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories#Critical_examination_of_hoax_accusations

  5. Welcome to 0 Galaxies.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...as the Death Star that is Slashdot has now fired its lethal ray, goodbye twin galaxies. . . .

  6. AI solver by fleeped · · Score: 1

    I'm wondering when the time will come, when some guys start writing AI to defeat the game with optimal high-score. Even if a coin-op is required, the robot parts to handle input shouldn't be that difficult to program, and would make the whole thing even fancier. Screw chess, arcade AI solvers sound immensely more fun!

    1. Re:AI solver by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      Part of it is already really based on random chance. Since there is a kill screen and the way certain events occur is (somewhat) random, the person with the highest score usually is the one that just got lucky a few more times than the runner up. At the level he, Wiebe, and Mitchell are at, I doubt there is really much of a "skill" difference between them.

    2. Re:AI solver by MrMarkie · · Score: 1

      Today the Donkey Kong highscore, tomorrow The World!

      Sincerly
      MrMarkie
      Lead Developer, SkyNet Deveolment Team

      --
      /M
    3. Re:AI solver by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Part of it is already really based on random chance. Since there is a kill screen and the way certain events occur is (somewhat) random, the person with the highest score usually is the one that just got lucky a few more times than the runner up. At the level he, Wiebe, and Mitchell are at, I doubt there is really much of a "skill" difference between them.

      They should all get together for a match of Smash Bros. Chien can play Mario, Wiebe can play Donkey Kong, and Mitchell can play Kirby and spend the whole match hiding in a corner mashing the "taunt" button.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  7. Sorry to break your bullshit bubble... by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sorry to break your bullshit bubble, but Rome had its first gladiatorial combats in 310 BC, according to Livy, and yes often accompanied to distributing food to the poor. Not only it wasn't the beginning of the end, but it was followed by its most rapid expansion centuries. In the couple of centuries after those, Rome went from being a debatable leader of a leader of city states spanning barely half of Italy to an empire sprawled all around the Mediterranean, not to mention most of modern France and half of Britain.

    If anything, historians from the era tend to agree that sponsoring lavish shows to boost morale actually served well to do just that, and helped Rome rebound after such massive defeats as Canae and emerge more powerful than ever before.

    It would be more than 500 years after that, or still almost three centuries even after the peak of the popularity of gladiatorial combats in the 1st century BC, that Rome even started to decline. And almost 800 years after that, in 476 AD that the Western Empire fell.

    Even if you want to go for a post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy to associate the two, actually Rome fell shortly after they _stopped_ holding gladiatorial combats. So, hmm, maybe actually the bad sign is when you can't even afford to have fun any more?

    So, sorry, but linking such shows to Rome's decline is fucking idiotic. If you want to make a historical case, do read some history first.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:Sorry to break your bullshit bubble... by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Even if you want to go for a post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy to associate the two, actually Rome fell shortly after they _stopped_ holding gladiatorial combats. So, hmm, maybe actually the bad sign is when you can't even afford to have fun any more?

      So, like, if the Superbowl in the US gets canceled, they are going to Hell in a handbasket?

      So, sorry, but linking such shows to Rome's decline is fucking idiotic. If you want to make a historical case, do read some history first.

      This is Slashdot. We don't read, we just post. Read history? Hell, most of us don't even bother to read the article summaries.

      I hope that you can appreciate that I merely joking . . . but maybe not.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:Sorry to break your bullshit bubble... by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So, like, if the Superbowl in the US gets canceled, they are going to Hell in a handbasket?

      It's certainly more supportable than the opposite "OMG, we're going to hell because some people have fun" theory. Though still in a fallacious way.

      But mostly it just shows that if you just hand-pick a pair of events connected only by chronology, you can argue just about anything. E.g., Rome expanded the quickest after they introduced crucifixion (learned from the Carthaginians actually, with the cross-bar being a Roman twist) and imploded the fastest after Constantine abolished crucifixion. So, hmm, maybe that's the real key to building a successful empire ;)

      This is Slashdot. We don't read, we just post. Read history? Hell, most of us don't even bother to read the article summaries.

      I'm ok with that too, actually, but then really I expect such people to not use pseudo-history for their canned moralizing points.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    3. Re:Sorry to break your bullshit bubble... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, sweet bro.

      Anyway, Donkey Kong...

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    4. Re:Sorry to break your bullshit bubble... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Sorry to break your bullshit bubble, but Rome had its first gladiatorial combats in 310 BC

      At least according to the historical consultant on "Rome" (which I'm watching on DVD, and is set around 44 BC, since it shows the murder of Julius Caesar), there were gladatorial combats, but nothing like what people nowadays imagine until much later. That is, the Coloseum was later. Earlier ones were much smaller, and one shown on the show was small and held in an area built on the forum. (They do describe the differences between what they show due to budget reasons and the actual situations).

    5. Re:Sorry to break your bullshit bubble... by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      Well, buying and training slaves for it was expensive too, so, yes, usually the shows didn't involve whole armies. But larger ones existed too. E.g., since you mention Caesar, he wanted to sponsor a show with so many gladiator pairs that the Senate forced him to reduce it, because it boiled down to a small army of armed men in Rome.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  8. Is there a maximum possible DK score? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 2

    From watching King of Kong I learned that it has a killscreen (a level that is impossible to beat). Based on that, I've assumed that there is therefore a theoretical maximum score in Donkey Kong.

    There are a lot of variables affecting how many points can be scored on each level (bonus timer, how many of Pauline's trinkets Mario picks up, how many hazards he jumps or hammers, etc.) so this isn't as easy to calculate as the maximum possible score in Pac Man is.

    Does anyone know what the highest possible score on DK is, or have a rough estimate for how close this new record is to that score?

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    1. Re:Is there a maximum possible DK score? by gazbo · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I've partly answered this in a previous comment, but as an illustration of how much higher the score can go, take a look at level 1-1 (the first barrel round). In Wiebe's highest scoring game, he scored ~8000 points on that level. Twingalaxies opened a track for who could get the highest score on that level, and although the site is slashdotted, from memory it was well in excess of 12000. The barrel rounds are by far the most common in the game so that suggests a huge margin for improvement.

      Of course, the 1-1 barrel round is quite different from the 5-1 barrel round. In the latter the timer counts down far faster, so there's less time to points press. On the other hand, you have far more control over the barrels, which makes higher scoring easier (if you ignore that whole 'death' thing).

      If I had to make a guess, I'd say there's theoretically hundreds of thousands more points to score. Maybe even break 2 million if the game cooperates?

    2. Re:Is there a maximum possible DK score? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a theoretical maximum, but no one knows what it is. No one even knows what the theoretical maximum on the first board is. The game is far too complex to figure out a maximum. The theoretical maximum is probably 1.5-2M. That will never happen. The feasible maximum is about 1.2M.

    3. Re:Is there a maximum possible DK score? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a way to figure it out, or at least there will be at some point, using tool assistance. Emulators exist that allow you to record input at a very slow speed, as well as make corrections if you make mistakes. Then, once this input file is created, it is played back in real-time and looks like a 'perfect' play-through of the game. There is an entire community (http://tasvideos.org) built around this idea. The only current arcade emulator with rerecord features (FBA-rr: http://code.google.com/p/fbarr/) doesn't support Donkey Kong at the moment, but if it gets emulated, the theoretical maximum can be found.

       

  9. Hank? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, this guy looks like one of my very quiet classmates from High School. I had no idea he played Donkey Kong.

  10. March? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is TFS talking about March? Is this 9-month old "news"? Was the tournament held in Cambridgeshire? Or is that part just completely irrelevant to the meat of the story?

    1. Re:March? by dave024 · · Score: 1

      What? The article is dated yesterday. The summary is talking about the upcoming competition in March that he was preparing for.

    2. Re:March? by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      What? The article is dated yesterday. The summary is talking about the upcoming competition in March that he was preparing for.

      Yeah, they have March every year.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  11. The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The economy of Rome is even funnier than that, actually.

    For a start, it a right-wing paradise of sorts, in that the Senatorial class -- which was non-elected and hereditary by now in the Empire times that you mention -- paid no taxes, although they owned most of the land. Although many also set up merchant enterprises in the name of their freedmen, with them owning most "shares" so to speak and taking most profits... and again paying no tax whatsoever for that either.

    As the rich quickly gobbled up more and more of the former free men's farms, essentially more and more of the Roman economy didn't contribute a cent any more to the state.

    I would say that the spending of private coins to import stuff from the East was a much more minor factor than the fact that none of those coins would go into taxes anyway.

    Imperial Rome almost at no point actually had a sustainable economy per se. It was a robber economy, simply put. They _had_ to keep expanding and plundering new countries, even to keep paying their legions.

    Heck, they plundered even their own citizens, as essentially they paid all the wages in overvalued silver coins and demanded the taxes only in gold.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by rla3rd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sounds like corporations here in the US

    2. Re:The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by krou · · Score: 1

      Cheers, thanks for that, very interesting!

      --
      'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
    3. Re:The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about "inheritance tax"? IIRC starting with either Tiberius or Caligula the senatorial class had to leave a substantial part of their estate to the emperor or have their will declared invalid and the entire estate seized.

    4. Re:The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Imperial Rome almost at no point actually had a sustainable economy per se. It was a robber economy, simply put. They _had_ to keep expanding and plundering new countries, even to keep paying their legions.

      Isn't this the same of almost every currency that has been put into existence? We keep have to repaying the always inflating currency debt by exponentially expanding our economy.

    5. Re:The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by operagost · · Score: 1

      You are correct. Many of the long-term senators who never seem to lose an election have their own companies and fail to pay their taxes. I would like to cite examples from both parties, but unfortunately it seems that only Democrats have been implicated recently.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    6. Re:The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by Quill_28 · · Score: 1

      How is the rich not paying taxes a right-wing paradise?

    7. Re:The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the right-wing doesn't want the rich to pay taxes.

    8. Re:The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      What about "inheritance tax"? IIRC starting with either Tiberius or Caligula the senatorial class had to leave a substantial part of their estate to the emperor or have their will declared invalid and the entire estate seized.

      I wouldn't call the 5% inheritance tax of Augustus to be all that substantial, actually, and certainly didn't even put a dent in the Latifundia. And hardly did much to balance the military expenses. In fact it barely almost covered the discharge bonus (think: pension) of soldiers who managed to not get killed during their very long term of service.

      And most soldiers would be given land instead at discharge, which in 1 or 2 generations ended owned by the rich and no longer paying taxes. So if anything that discharge bonus was a way to leak even public land into the ownership of those who didn't pay taxes for it.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    9. Re:The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by Quill_28 · · Score: 1

      OK, I can play this game. You are wrong. No need for examples, references, or anything like that.

    10. Re:The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For a start, it a right-wing paradise of sorts, in that the Senatorial class -- which was non-elected and hereditary by now in the Empire times that you mention -- paid no taxes, although they owned most of the land

      That sounds fair. Rich people create all of the jobs. Why should the job creators be punished by paying taxes?

    11. Re:The economic aspects of Rome are more complex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the right-wing professes that they prefer nobody pay taxes. Look at how the U.S. conservatives stopped all legislative activity until the "temporary" Bush-era tax cuts were renewed.

      Ultimately reality sets in and they need to find some way to pay for the "basics" (military, etc.) Many U.S. right-wingers advocate a "flat tax" proposal which would shift a larger burden on the lower classes, instead of the current progressive tax which taxes people more at higher incomes. The usual complaints are made under the guise of "punishing success" or "class envy" against richer people. There's also the theory of Laffer's curve where a reduction in taxation could theoretically increase income.

      Taken to the extreme where continual reduction of taxation on the wealthy who "create jobs" and "encourage the economy" would result in the wealthy not paying any taxes. Ergo, not taxing the wealthy sounds like the ideal situation for right-wing advocates.

      Want citation? Turn on the news and listen to right-wing talking points.

  12. Just some perspective on King of Kong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1303

    "Too bad it’s loaded with falsehoods. And by loaded, I mean packed, and by packed I mean like the last Japanese subway car before they have to shut down the line. "

    1. Re:Just some perspective on King of Kong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      by packed I mean like the last Japanese subway car before they have to shut down the line.

      The irony here is that the Japanese subway is most crowded at rush-hour. Those late-night trains that are the last ones to run are hardly crowded. In fact, if you're drunk and in need of a place to lay down, those trains usually provide ample opportunity.

  13. Apples and oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let me guess: you're not quite old enough to understand that a ruling class (government) and a subject class ("the people") are NOT the same.

    (It's obvious from your attributing to "civilization" the endeavors of a distinct group of individuals that you have fallen into the trap of believing that society somehow thinks as one borg-like unit, just as government has taught you all your life.)

  14. Re:Single? by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 1

    I don't know whether or not he's single, but I highly doubt he lives with his parents. The guy's a plastic surgeon after all.

    --
    Happy people make bad consumers.
  15. Re:This why aren't invited to our parties any more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And stop comparing any of today's societies to the mighty Roman Empire. Rome stood for a thousand years, and it left a lasting legacy.

  16. gimme a break by Kenshin · · Score: 1

    In the '20s and '30s they had dancing marathons, to see who could dance the longest.

    Eating competitions have gone on for who knows how long.

    Even the Inuit have a game where two men stand across from each other and take turns punching each other in the shoulder until one gives up.

    Shit's been going on forever. The world hasn't ended yet.

    --

    Does it make you happy you're so strange?

  17. Obligatory by bogidu · · Score: 1

    You have to use your hands?? That's a baby's toy!

    1. Re:Obligatory by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      You have to use your hands?? That's a baby's toy!

      Those kids must have been Kinect fans or something.

      I certainly hope the hoverboards will be released according to schedule...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  18. Hank CHIEN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could say he was dogging the old high score.

  19. Sorta, but not exactly by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    Well, sorta, but not exactly. The Roman Empire didn't have to expand its economy per se, it had to keep attacking more countries to plunder them. Trajan needed the gold of Dacia to pay for his war in Persia, and so on. When they ran out of places to plunder, the collapse started. Then came a devaluing of coinage of EPIC proportions, attempts at price fixing, enlistment dropped like a rock because the soldiers' wage and "pension" (so to speak) became worth almost nothing, etc.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:Sorta, but not exactly by Raenex · · Score: 1

      The Roman Empire didn't have to expand its economy per se, it had to keep attacking more countries to plunder them.

      I can't really see the difference. It had to keep on expanding, either through growth or plunder. How is it any different than, for example, the British Opium Wars with China, the Nixon Shock, the huge debts the United States is racking up with China, or if I'm really cynical, war with Iraq to keep oil trading in American dollars?

    2. Re:Sorta, but not exactly by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      At a basic level, the difference is that in one case it's "growth or plunder", while in Rome's case it had to be "plunder". One has two options, the other has one.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  20. Awesome! by flimflammer · · Score: 1

    Honestly, I don't care who has the high score as long as it's not Billy Mitchell. I hate that guy with a passion.

    1. Re:Awesome! by Tetsujin · · Score: 2

      Honestly, I don't care who has the high score as long as it's not Billy Mitchell. I hate that guy with a passion.

      Based on King of Kong?

      Documentaries lie. In fact, in general, editing lies. It'd probably be best to base hate on first-hand impressions instead of being swayed by drama.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    2. Re:Awesome! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you even know him? or did you just watch the movie? Bill is a good guy, it was the movie that was a joke.

    3. Re:Awesome! by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      My impression does not extend from the movie, no.

    4. Re:Awesome! by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      My view of him is not based on the movie. I guess I probably should have said this first to avoid the assumption.

    5. Re:Awesome! by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      My view of him is not based on the movie. I guess I probably should have said this first to avoid the assumption.

      Fair enough. For my part I probably should have avoided the assumption.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  21. do you know what a Credit Default Swap is? by hildi · · Score: 0

    according to a large number of people on wall-street, it is nothing more than gambling. and we didn't spend "millions" to bail out the gamblers, we spent hundreds of billions.

  22. Re:Single? by greg1104 · · Score: 1

    Lives with his brother in Manhattan, so presumably single. If you live someplace as nice as a NYC apartment, go ahead and cast those stores. Used to live there myself, and everybody I know who has a nice place there doesn't say LOL; not placing my bet on you so far.

  23. When will Google solve Donkey Kong? by ZipK · · Score: 1

    Why is Google fooling around with Soduku when they could be figuring out the maximum score on Donkey Kong? C'mon Google, put your brainpower to something important! Google engineering, consider yourself challenged.

  24. Well, if you count slavery as "creating jobs"... by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    That sounds fair. Rich people create all of the jobs. Why should the job creators be punished by paying taxes?

    Well, that is, if you count slavery as "creating jobs". Those latifundia (great estates) were worked almost exclusively with slaves who not only had no freedom and could be crucified on a whim (even freedmen could be reverted to slaves and crucified on a whim, btw), but were often fed bare subsistence ratios or even less than that. There are documented cases where slaves were basically left to forage for themselves or starve, because the owner wanted to capitalize on a spike in grain price by selling all the grain instead of feeding the slaves with some of it. E.g., that's exactly what caused the slave revolt in Sicily, a.k.a., the First Servile War.

    And far from creating jobs, that's what created that class of poor "on the dole" in Rome. Their jobs had been "outsorced" to barbarian slaves because it was cheaper, and really there wasn't anyone giving them a job.

    And basically the overall effect, if you listen to Pliny The Elder is that it ruined everyone else in Italy and was starting to do the same in the provinces, practically in the same century as it was made official.

    On the whole, thanks for illustrating why I tell people to stop doing bullshit pseudo-historical parallels between present day and Rome, when they want to support their canned talking points. Your claim of creating jobs is flat out wrong for Rome, and in the opposite direction, the fact that that Roman system just impoverished millions of people and replaced workers with slaves... I really don't think you want to make that parallel for the present day rich. Call it just a hunch, but I really don't think you were going for _that_ parallel with that "creating jobs" rhetoric :p

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  25. Kind of been there done that by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    I sometimes look to fall asleep on an uncrowded bus when I'm sleep-deprived like usual without alcohol being involved. Like tomorrow, probably - it's 3 AM already. goodnight. :)

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.