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Ruby Dropped In Netbeans 7
An anonymous reader writes "Ruby/RoR in NetBeans made headlines three years ago, but after Sun was acquired by Oracle there where fears that support for dynamic languages would suffer, as this IDE would be downsized. This has become a reality, since as of version 7, NetBeans will no longer support Ruby."
Anybody who programs in Ruby/RoR uses either vi or Rubymine.
It's a dead language I'd always say.
Can you cite the Netcraft story?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
I used to like NetBeans at least as much as Eclipse, but with Oracle in charge, I'm not sure I can trust the future of anything from them that's free.
'However, we strongly encourage our community of NetBeans Ruby users and developers to volunteer to take on development of Ruby on Rails support for the NetBeans IDE. " Remember Netbeans is just Forte - the whole thing is just a collection of modules. Fork the ruby module.
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and again time of java and ruby enthusiasts had been wasted in retrospective...
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When will people learn that you are supposed to have multiple tools? A hammer alone can't build a house!
I support Eclipse dropping Ruby. It's a waste of time for them to support my favorite language. Eclipse is the peak of the Java wave. Nay, it is the very pinnacle of Gosling's genius. Anyone who looks at the incredible elegance of the system will quickly realize how unsuited it is to Ruby development. Ruby is just not ready for the brilliance of the Eclipse Development System. It was too shoddy, too tainted with the foul fumes of scripting languages. Practically reeks of Perl.
Until Ruby is worthy we'll just have to settle for Textmate and Vim.
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. - Hunter S. Thompson
Oracle has nearly nothing to do with Ruby, so in that sense it's not surprising. However it's surprising that only a couple developers complaint about that in the Netbeans testers mailing list given the community that had been growing lately around this extension. In other news, Aptana seems to be a good alternative too.
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So do you only write Python or what? Why is '}' easier for your brain to chunk than 'end'?
I suppose you prefer Python, a language using whitespace for block structures. It's so much fun when someone accidentally uses both tabs and spaces, or decides to move blocks of code around.
} Python? Py doesn't use curlies for begin/end. I adore Python and its whitespace goodness, but Scala is really growing on me too. It seems to just intuit the "ends". The dreaded curlies get used about 50% less often than with Java.
The man who dies rich dies disgraced. -- Andrew Carnegie
That you don't have to wait for an 'evil' big company to provide you with features. So stop whining and start coding a community modulebalready. Or is it 'free as in leech'?
If you are not indenting your code correctly you are still making it hard to read the code. The reality is that whitespace is a good way to show code blocks to humans, and it's good practice to indent properly anyway - so why not just use that rather than indenting and using braces? Braces are just extra stuff that isn't needed.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
Are you saying NetBeans doesn't suck or are you just saying it is better than Eclipse? If they both suck then why bother with either in the first place?
As much as I love Ruby this is one syntax issue that kind of bothers me (along with elsif). The thing is I hate Python using white space/indent levels more than that. As for why Ruby doesn't use braces, it's for dynamic objects and hashes and the like: {:name => "bob", :age => 26} . The thing is you can that in ActionScript3 AND it still uses C like bracing.
Eclipse sucks compared to netbeans and Intellij. Eclipse is a mess of half working plugins. Especially the jee part of eclipse is really lousy with lack of features slow editors and bugs.
I second that recommendation.
Precisely one of the reasons I hate Python. Not every single piece of code on the planet is going to look good with the same white space structure, sometimes you need to add or subtract whitespace to make your code more understandable. Add that to the fact some editors handle white space completely differently (tab is a character damn you!). But that's not the show stopper for me; for me what really makes me not like Python is things like terrible stability caused by things like poor dynamic variable management, system inconsistencies, general interpreter bugs, random memory leaks, global warming, ghosts, and who knows what. I just can't trust Python, end of story.
Just try doing it on a 20 year old code base where non-functional changes are prohibited by company policy and lazy programmers have been pasting thousands of lines of functionality from elsewhere into the middle of loops and if statements because they were afraid of impacting old code and where the comments which might have helped you work out what the hell was going on are all written in French and Arabic and most of them are the programmers ragging on each other anyway and everybody uses whatever editor is available, usually vee eye with tabs sometimes enabled and sometimes not and...
I suppose the big advantage of python in that environment is that it wouldn't work at all, while C soldiers on.
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Exactly. The code simply can't get to that point with Python. Some people hate having it forced on them, but it simply is a better solution. It's more natural and more sensible. Python tries to encourage a good, or at the very least, consistant, coding style wherever possible.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
Sorry, but if you are more worried about using a 3 letter keyword, a bracket, or a bit of whitespace in your coding syntax than actually making it readable and testable - I can't imagine any decent engineers that would want to collaborate with you.
Now, on the other hand, if you had complained that Ruby has evolved to pretty much accommodate any syntax you can think of (resulting in complete chaos in coding style in many larger-scale Ruby projects) without actually putting much if any time into actual performance, I might respect the complaint. But block closing syntax.. is that REALLY the best Ruby complaint you can come up with?
With {} (or begin end or ...) my computer can indent it for me. And re-indent it with few key presses if I move it to a place where another indentation is needed. If the indentation is the scoping, the computer cannot do that for me.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
It's dropping paid dev support. Instead it will become a community run project like Python.
From TFA:
After this development, the NetBeans/Ruby support will become a community project, much like Python support
Netbeans is easily extendable through plugins. It's one of the features I like so much about it. The netbeans.org website even has tutorials for how to go about adding new language support through the use of plugins.
anyone care enough for netbeans, to save it?
Kate is exactly what you describe, has been working fine for me for the last ten years or so.
The title is so misleading. There is still a Ruby bundle for Netbeans 7.0. In fact you can download the beta now. What happened is they decided to stop paying employees to work on it and are handing it over to the community.
Having a bookmark to Google does not make you an expert on everything.
Well, as the discussion is about decent IDE's, then you can safely assume that none of these users actually type 'end' by themselves, as the syntax structures are autocompleted anyway.
As long as machine is doing the typing, slightly easier reading is much more important than length of writing.
OK, I suppose.
But the thing with brackets is programmers have a huge set of tools created which are based on brackets. For example, pass over a bracket, and the matching bracket gets highlighted. Jedit even shows you the text of the matching line. Highly useful.
You can collapse and expand blocks, as well.
Second gripe: For a language that prides itself of removing superfluous dreck (brackets, semicolons), it's amazing that you have to manually pass along the current object ("self"). Bothersome both for high-school newbs and professional programmers.
Please don't say you can create a macro to automatically insert "self" for all of your functions. Because most editors also have macros for semicolons and brackets as well.
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There's conflicting information out there:
They say it's just RoR:
http://netbeans.org/community/news/show/1507.html
They say it's the Ruby language too:
http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/01/ruby-dropped-in-netbeans-7
Who's right?
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As long as machine is doing the typing, slightly easier reading is much more important than length of writing.
First, I don't use autocompletion. I've tried it and found that I can type faster than stopping every time to pick one of a set of options. Autocompletion is for people who can't type, If you can't type very fast you'll never be a very productive programmer.
Also, "end" isn't easier to read than "}". The closing brace has a distinctive shape, the only place it could be confusing is if it's mixed with parentheses, as often happens in Python, I don't program in Ruby so I don't know if it's the same problem there.
If they are in a line by themselves, braces are easier to see at a glance than "end", that was one of the details that got me to switch to C from Pascal. When you have to program or maintain millions of lines of code, every little detail matters, it may not be that much difference seeing one symbol or the other, but in the end the simpler one wins.
Of all the excuses, you refer hitting a single extra key ('d') "more effort", compared to shift + ] = }.
I cannot see how that is even measurable 'effort' wise.
Ruby highlighting works fine for me in vim. Must be just you.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
thrust it, and you rape what you sow...8p
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
Actually that's still miss interpreted. Oracle dropped paid development of Ruby on Rails and is leaving the development for the plugin to the community now.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Yeah... Actually, it can. My IDE automatically indents my Python. It's not really hard, it raises it by a level whenever a line ends with a colon. I can reindent blocks easily too... I don't really get your issue.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
Dropping Ruby from a Java IDE doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. It's bloat. The ruby folks can develop a great IDE of their own or use the nightmare that is eclipse or buy Intellij Idea. Ruby on Rails seems like a great prototyping language/framework, but aside from twitter, I can't think of many large scale sites using it.
I have used netbeans for PHP in the past and it worked better than eclipse, but I still wonder if it should stick to just java. The only reason I used netbeans is because it takes twenty minutes or a restart of eclipse to pickup new methods in PHP class files. The whole point of using a bloated IDE for PHP is code completion, easy access to documentation, etc. Now, I just use vim at work.
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Major topic:
NetBeans always insisted the the Ruby usage was for Rails, so I never found it at all useful.
Parent:
Mixing tabs and spaces is a solved problem. Solved quite awhile back. (The code won't compile.)
As for the other point... that's still a problem. Generally I pull it out and make it a separate function, which is probably usually the right thing to do anyway..
I *am* still annoyed by Python and white-space, but then I'm annoyed by Go and insisting that opening braces be on the same line as the loop statement. (Difference: I use Python. Go I don't, but largely because their documentation is still so inadequate...probably because it's still in beta.)
I think that Ruby is a much nicer -language- than Python, but it doesn't seem to be able to localize errors as well. Sometimes I get to the end of the program "compilation" and am told "There's an error right after the end". This generally means that somewhere back in the program there's a block that isn't properly terminated, or a string that isn't properly closed, or some such. But that can take a LONG time to find. (I frequently write code where some pieces can't be tested until other pieces are wirtten...and it's a recursive loop, so it doesn't matter where you start, you've got to write all the pieces before you can test any of it. Of course, I could just write stubs, but then I might not remember to finish some of them.)
With C/C++ I don't like the pointer syntax. And C++ templates are confusing. (I've never been a C++ specialist. I use lots of different languages.) But neither C nor C++ handle unicode acceptably. (I need to handle unicode strings which are almost always ASCII, so utf-8 is the highly preferred form.)
Vala is a language that shows lots of promise, but is seems to be developing slowly. D is the language that I'd really choose, if it weren't for the library problem. (Which Vala gets around by generating intermediate C code.)
So for now I'm using Python. And keeping my eye on Vala and Python.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
http://www.jetbrains.com/ruby/
https://github.com/danlucraft/redcar
I'm using redcar. Gotta check out Eclipse and see if they've made much progress.
That's a problem with your browser, not Python.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
From you posting I take it you did not use NetBeans recently. Netbeans has improved a lot. I even think it is better the InteliJ IDEA these days. At the very least NetBeans has the best Maven integration of the three. Just saying because you don't like Ant.
Actually Twitter uses Scala these days.