LG Wants PlayStation 3 Banned From US Market

FlorianMueller writes "On Friday LG filed a complaint against Sony with the US International Trade Commission, claiming the PlayStation 3 infringes four Blu-ray Disc patents and demanding a permanent ban of the PS3 (and possibly other products) from the US market. LG, which boasts that it owns 90,000 patents worldwide, appears to take this step in retaliation for a previous Sony complaint about various LG smartphones, which the ITC is already investigating. This is reminiscent of Motorola's infringement action against the Xbox 360 that is part of its wider dispute with Microsoft. In other words, you touch my smartphones and I bomb your game consoles."

Comments

Re:Wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony was one of the board members of the Blu-Ray Disc Association who established the standard. However, so was LG.

Blu-Ray Disc Association

[Enderandrew]

9 companies were in on the formation of Blu-ray, though Sony is widely creditted as being the primary creators of the technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[staticneuron]

Which means LG going after Sony in this manner could probably result in a retaliatory action that would call for the halt of sale for all blu ray devices that LG makes because of some obscure BR patent owned by Sony. This doesn't seem like a good idea at all.

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[ghjm]

The idea is that both companies hold so many patents that starting an actual war just results in the annihilation of both parties. But then Sony launched a missile. What's LG supposed to do? Not respond?

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[natehoy]

This is already a retaliatory action. Even the summary mentions this.

Han Sony shot first.

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[erroneus]

On the contrary! This is an AWESOME thing! I've got to stock up on popcorn and other snacks while I watch this unfold into what I hope is so much patent litigation that the government steps in and kills software patents entirely. ("If you two can't play together then you can't play at all! No more software patents for ANYONE!")

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[Daniel Phillips]

Which means LG going after Sony in this manner could probably result in a retaliatory action that would call for the halt of sale for all blu ray devices that LG makes because of some obscure BR patent owned by Sony. This doesn't seem like a good idea at all.

On the contrary, Blu Ray player shipments are a small part of LG's business while they are a major part of Sony's.

Looking forward to Sony retreating with tail between its legs on this one. Couldn't happen to a nicer company.

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[Anonymous Coward]

So, if you get rid of software patents, or ban the PS3 from the US market - does that make it ok to execute your own code (possibly using a special number plastered all over the internet) within the US?

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[f8l_0e]

This reminds me of the Aliens vs Predator posters. "No matter who wins, we lose."

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[hairyfeet]

Actually I'd say its a smart move. After all who has more to lose LG, who gets but a tiny fraction of their money from BD players and last I heard their big markets were smart phones and LCD TVs? Or Sony, who has a pretty big chunk of their business tied to the PS3 and who is finally making them at a profit and still needs to catch up to the X360 in terms of sales? If this goes through, even for only a month or two it'll hurt Sony bad with a capital B, whereas banning all LG BD players won't even make a dent in their quarterly reports.

But this to me points out something that is wrong with our current patent system, in that instead of protecting the little guy patents have become WMDs to be trotted out by the megacorps. The worst part about it isn't when the megacorps fight each other like King Kong VS Godzilla, it is how they use them to pretty much insure the field stays amongst themselves. I mean can you even imagine trying to come out with a new graphics card design with all the patents the big three have? Or trying to come up with a new X86 like Cyrix and Winchip did back in the day? If you had less than 100 billion the lawyers would crush you like a bug!

That is why I think the USPTO needs to be a hell of a lot more stingy when it comes to handing out patents, and software patents needs to DIAF. Throughout our history we have always had to "stand on the shoulders of giants" to reach new heights, but with the rise of the multinational corporation those shoulders now have patents up the ying yang. That is why I think once they get up to speed the next big breakthroughs will probably come from India and China, simply because there you'll be able to try new ideas and build upon existing tech without an army of lawyers and a mountain of cash. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese just hack in a subset of X86 into those new Dragon CPUs they are working on, giving them the best of ARM and X86 and giving us the finger. After all they can do it, whereas unless you are AMD or Intel you simply can't even try here, the lawyers will bury you.

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[HarrySquatter]

On the contrary, Blu Ray player shipments are a small part of LG's business while they are a major part of Sony's.

Since when? Sony makes $88 billion in revenue a year and it's highly doubtful that a major part of that is Blu-Ray players or Blu-Ray royalties considering how many divisions make up Sony. If you care to show otherwise, please cite their financials.

Looking forward to Sony retreating with tail between its legs on this one. Couldn't happen to a nicer company.

Don't hold your breath. You'll suffocate waiting.

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[Plekto]

And you wonder why more and more companies are fleeing to China where (U.S. - remember we created the entire world "patent system" to cover our asses after we blatantly stole everything we could in the 1700s and 1800s) patents simply don't exist.

Right now it can take you literally a year to deal with the red tape and legal issues involved in a new product because of some connector or screen or other small part that the company that owns the patent is being an asshat about. Meanwhile, the same piece of metal and plastic can be designed and manufactured in weeks overseas.

The #1 thing that patents need to have changed about them is simple - that ANYONE can use them. Ability to utilize existing patents should always include a mandatory option to pay fees to use the technology. Sitting on a patent (especially IP) being a cock-block is counter to everything the system stands for, since the original idea was that while you had exclusive rights to a product, you also would license it for a fee to your competitors for use in non-competing products. ie - they could sell something similar using your part but likely at a worse price than you could build it for. This kept unrelated larger projects like designing new jet engines from grinding to a halt because of the company that designs a tiny part inside it being jerks and simply saying no.

Now, it's a tool to pressure competition out of any and all markets. Nobody licenses anything anymore, and nobody builds anything for you either, even if you ask.(unless you're another mega-corp) Most companies won't be even bothered to sell you their product or idea if you offer to pay them. It's always "we own this idea, so go away or we'll sue you."

None of this exists in China. You simply buy an item, reverse engineer the one critical part, and include it in your design. Kind of like Edison and everyone else a hundred years ago did in the U.S. You wonder why we're bleeding jobs in the U.S.? Because we've come full circle in 235 years. We're now worse than the tyranny and oppression that we fought to get away from. We're drowning in paperwork, red tape, lawyers, and arcane laws to the point where normal citizens can't do business any more, and large corporations simply move everything to China and India.

I know if I had a business, I'd build it overseas. Where I live in California, it's so hostile to business in general, let alone dealing with patents and copyrights, that it's nearly impossible to do anything unless you are filthy rich to begin with.(or open a franchise and suck up to some giant corporation)

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[staticneuron]

Launching a missile against the smartphones is a farcry from taking it to the BR plans. Sony also has patents on TV, controller, radio, microprocessor, and many more. It isn't a smart idea to make enemies across divisions because now the game division is taking heat for something the Sony Ericsson dept has an issue with? If Sony can get its act together and act as one force this could get really nasty overall for LG.

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[ghjm]

Or, as I'm sure LG is counting on, Sony might not get its act together and act as one force. In which case the (huge) Sony game division could make life extremely unpleasant for the (tiny) Sony smartphone division.

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[infaustus]

No, that is not a patent issue, it is a DMCA issue.

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[exomondo]

Which means LG going after Sony in this manner could probably result in a retaliatory action

RTFA...or even the summary. This *is* the retaliatory action, taken by LG after Sony targeted its smartphones. This is how patent disputes work, company one files a complaint against company two, company two files a retaliatory complaint and they settle with a cross-licensing deal.

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[westlake]

And you wonder why more and more companies are fleeing to China where (U.S. - remember we created the entire world "patent system" to cover our asses after we blatantly stole everything we could in the 1700s and 1800s) patents simply don't exist.

LG is a South Korean industrial mega-corp - a cartel. Sony is a Japanese industrial mega-corp - a cartel. The cartel does not welcome newcomers to its markets. Not an unfamiliar pattern in Asia. Tell me what makes China different.

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[Plekto]

True, they don't like competition, but China's status as a place where IP and copyright issues are looked at as being nearly meaningless doe shave advantages to the company that uses workers there or makes their product there. They can't necessarily sell the product in the U.S., and there might be issues to deal with, but say, if I wanted to design or build a new type of solar panel. I wouldn't get my pants sued off for tinkering in my garage just because what I cam e up with was claimed by some corporation as IP years ago.

The reason China is doing so well is because they make it easy for business to do business there. The U.S. is only *slightly* better than the U.K. at this point in terms of how painful it is to get anything done and still be complying with the law.

Re:Blu-Ray Disc Association

[bill_mcgonigle]

The only winning move is not to play.

Re:Wait...

[pinkeen]

The summary is probably misleading. Apparently LG claims to have patents which Bluray infringes.

ahem

[shentino]

Sony, you know that sharp pain in your rear right now?

That is what us commoners call karma, and it is currently biting you in the ass.

Re:ahem

[Carewolf]

While all this all-out world-destroying MAD all-against-all lawyering is nice. It is the SLOWEST moving armageddon I've ever seen!!

Re:ahem

[noidentity]

I'm just waiting for SCO to sue Sony for infringing on its shoot-self-in-chest-multiple-times business method.

Re:ahem

[Svartalf]

Lawsuits are a slow means of destruction in most cases...

Re:ahem

[master811]

I know you joke, but it would be Sony Ericsson filing against LG, not Sony (which only half owns SE). This is different from Motorola, where they are all the same company.

Re:ahem

[DigiShaman]

The Crimson Permanent Assurance.

Re:ahem

[gknoy]

Buttheads, clearly. :)

Re:ahem

[asvravi]

FOUR patents? Really? Unless they are the very best patents (which I doubt), usually it takes four hundred before the defence even starts whimpering.

Re:ahem

[Confusador]

I'm kind of curious to hear about the other armageddons you've experienced?

Too many lawsuits

[chemicaldave]

There's so many tech companies suing each other (sometimes simultaneously for different reasons) that this really is just another drop in the bucket.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[TheDarkMaster]

I believe that some "genius"in these companies concluded that it is more profitable to sue other companies that actually produce products to sell to someone.

Seriously, it's best to just shoot the heads of these lunatics before this insanity can get worse?

Re:Too many lawsuits

[Sockatume]

LG and Sony are both members of the coalition that created the Blu-Ray standard, though. It's kind of perverse that LG would then turn around and start suing members of that coalition for patent infringement for using a technology they helped develop and promote. Perhaps next time somebody forms such a coalition they should put a nonagression clause in the agreement alongside the trademark licencing for the logo.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[SharpFang]

There are quite few companies that -sue first- Patents portfolios are often compared to WMD arsenal. You keep your patents so that nobody dares to attack you because they infringe on many of your patents. If they do though, you launch a retaliatory strike. You must be either very inexperienced or have really massive portfolio (or have your essential profit source attacked) to assert your patents. Or simply be a patent troll with no production at all (so unable to infringe upon any patents). Of course if you get attacked, you counterattack with full strength in hope to intimidate the opponent into out-of-court settlement and backing off from their attack. Yeah, Sony, let us sell our smartphones and we will let you sell your Playstations. Following up and not settling leads to MAD, because companies can easily kill each other's production entirely, because about every single product out there infringes on one patent or another in possession of some other company, so if they launch total war, the court can shut down operations of both - and without sources of revenue they won't be able to pay compensation for patent violations and go down really fast.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I suspect that LG has no actual interest in damaging the success of blu-ray as such; but are rather just playing the classic "Patents: Mutually Assured Destruction" game that large companies play. Since patents are so numerous, and often so broad, it is likely that both Sony and LG are guilty as sin of violating one another's patents. However, Sony was tactless enough to sue LG about it. Instead of just trying a conventional defense-in-court(and potentially ending up paying out serious cash and/or having injunctions placed against important products), LG is counter-suing. Since both parties know that they, and their opponent, are almost certainly guilty, the end result will probably be an out-of-court arrangement of some sort, with an agreement to drop the issue, and possibly a cash payment from the party with the less impressive patent chest to the one with the more impressive one...

Aside from the futile legal costs this imposes on the big players, there are two main problems with this status-quo strategy:

One, it gives the large players substantial latitude to threaten, and then crush or aquire, small competitors. If it is titan to titan, both sides can be reasonably assured that the other violates their patents in some ways and they violate the other's patents in some ways. If it is a titan vs. a startup, the latter has few or no patents to violate, and almost certainly violates(or is close enough to potentially violating that they could be tied up in court long after the VC money runs out...) the larger company's patents. This creates an unfortunate pro-incumbent pressure.

Second, of course, are the patent trolls. As long as you don't produce anything but lawsuits, you probably don't violate anybody's patents. You therefore spend your time acquiring patents at fire sales and bankruptcies in the greatest bulk possible, at the lowest cost possible, and then use those to shake down the people who actually do produce things. Since a protracted legal battle is expensive and risky(because of product injunctions or willful infringement damages), you can usually walk away with a quick chunk of cash if you size your extortion demands correctly.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[Theaetetus]

LG and Sony are both members of the coalition that created the Blu-Ray standard, though. It's kind of perverse that LG would then turn around and start suing members of that coalition for patent infringement for using a technology they helped develop and promote. Perhaps next time somebody forms such a coalition they should put a nonagression clause in the agreement alongside the trademark licencing for the logo.

If LG was holding back patents that were essential to the Blu-Ray patent pool, the DoJ may start looking at them for anti-trust violations.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[Haedrian]

Also very useful at stopping new companies from setting up shop.

If they cough, you sue the crap out of them. They won't have enough Patent Power to fight back and they collapse.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[martas]

one word: clusterfuck

Re:Too many lawsuits

[rwv]

I don't know about you, but I enjoy when Mega-Corporations fight. Their pissing contests serve to expose how broken the system is.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[PopeRatzo]

LG and Sony are both members

I can honestly say that if both companies went down in flames of lawsuit conflagration I would not care even a little bit. If Blu-Ray technology was locked away in a chest and sent to the bottom of the sea forever, my life would not be reduced in any way.

Now, Sony does make a little portable AM-FM radio, the SRF-M37W, that I use to listen to my local sports franchises' games while I walk my dog in the evening, but that radio is a cheapened and much crummier version of the model it replaced, and anyway, Sangean makes a much nicer portable anyway. And the Sangean is made much better and doesn't make me feel dirty every time I see the logo like the Sony does.

Other than that, Sony and LG can both burn in hell. I am now going to view every single web page that either contains or discusses the software crack of the PS3. I don't own a PS3, but that doesn't matter. I may comment at those websites if they have not been taken down.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[Bjecas]

I long for the day a judge starts lumping patent infringement lawsuits together. It'd be the end of the current Patent Cold War, with the assured destruction of all the major players. They'd either move away from patenting altogether or die out, either way letting the rest of us free to work on building a better world...

Re:Too many lawsuits

[SadButTrue]

How are patent law and trust law related in this case?

Re:Too many lawsuits

[Theaetetus]

How are patent law and trust law related in this case?

A patent pool, such as the Blu-Ray pool, MPEG pool, Sony/Philips Red and Orange Book pools, etc., can have anti-competitive effects under the Sherman Act by extending the patent monopoly in scope, duration, or other ways. Similarly, it can be anti-competitive for a pool participant to collaborate with others to create a standard, while knowingly withholding an essential patent from the standard. In some instances, that withheld patent could be deemed unenforceable against infringers.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[SadButTrue]

Thanks for the explanation.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[russ1337]

Agree. This approach will stifle innovation in the US.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[DCFusor]

Fuzzy, you have that exactly right, and that's why getting patent reform is so hard - the big guys may hate each other, but they fear actual competition and innovation from a new startup much more. Even now, since they lost all ability to innovate (don't get me started on this, fanbois, nothing new exists we didn't think of in the early '70s before the hardware existed to make it real - from digital audio to smartphones with touchscreens) -- what they do is merge and acquire to buy marketshare, so shortsighted they don't consider maybe growing the overall pie (ask any stock trader like myself). Disgusting, but there it is. I've gotten out of the business because now you can't write 5 lines of code or design s simple circuit without violating a patent somewhere. They may be obvious, they may be bad, but it still costs 1-$10 million to defend yourself in court and get a bad patent tossed out.
.

Seems to me the trolls have been hitting the big guys too, despite what another uniformed poster on this thread mentions -- just ask MS, IBM, or some notable others about that of late.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[ewibble]

What we need is a patient white knight, a company that holds a lot of patients, does nothing but the moment a company sues another company over a patient offers it services to the company being sued.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Hmm... I think I smell a "business method" patent in the making...

Re:Too many lawsuits

[gutnor]

Big companies don't really need much to stop a small/just starting company. Just sue them, they won't have the financial resources to survive or be competitive. Patents are just one convenient way to do it.

Most classic way is just to partner with the little one and stop paying them or steal them or both. Scaring their client is another one. Another trick is scare some regulatory body; local government is especially good: the ratio of annoyance power vs lobbying effort is amazingly high. That way you can stop their production, prevent them to hire people or extend, fuck up their connection, ... for long enough so that they suffer.

New competitor only survives because the big companies don't pay enough attention to them until it is too late.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[Jonner]

I think this is good ammunition against the FUD-mongers who claim that the only way to be safe from codec patent infringement suits is to kowtow to the MPEG-LA. The reality is that no company is ever safe from patent trolls, no matter how big or small and regardless of how many patents they've licensed. What value is a standard if one can be sued at any time by fellow collaborators or some previously-unknown patent holder?

Re:Too many lawsuits

[i_b_don]

The law didn't seem to much teeth when it came to rambus.....

Re:Too many lawsuits

[chuchmo]

a company that holds a lot of patients

That's a hospital, but that's not important right now.

Re:Too many lawsuits

[Midnight Thunder]

This what you have when you have an over abundance of lawyers, lawyers running companies and failure to innovate.

If you have a company run by lawyers then it is easier for them to understand suing a company to death than actually working with engineers to make a better product.

Re:Wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

More like LG owns some of the patents behind the technology behind it (but not the protocol itself) and are using that is bite back at Sony for their patent infringement charges they are pressing against their phones.

Basically put, Sony should learn "Thoughs who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones" They didn't listen and threw something at someone who could return the favor.

Re:Wait...

[muindaur]

I read the patent claims too(at the end of the complaint linked in the article.) I saw some of them filed in 2007. and the PS3 was launched in Nov 2006.

So right there Sony has a prior art defense, and that's not in addition to the fact they were part of the development of BluRay.

US patents are stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

In general, being a foreigner, I think the biggest technological problem with the US is their (IMO) clueless and braindead patent office. You can basically patent just about anything and when you find someone other company or individual using it its "We'll sue!".

Of course; trying to reach a compromise might actually result in business deals which can be profitable for both parties, but it would appear as if many US companies seem totally incapable to think or reason beyond the word "lawsuit".

Quite a pathetic sight in my opinion.

Re:US patents are stupid

[Runaway1956]

Foreigner or not, your thinking makes sense to me. I swear, my fellow Americans are all freaking brain dead lunatics. And, having put that statement into print, I'm certain that one or more of the brain dead lunatics will be dragging me to court soon.

Re:US patents are stupid

[gartogg]

How would you suggest running the patent office - the rest of the world generally does a worse job and/or relies on US patents.

You have a limited budget, and those skilled enough to investigate won't work for the money you can afford to pay them. Oh, and you have a legal requirement to deal with patents in a given time frame.

Re:US patents are stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

How would you suggest running the patent office - the rest of the world generally does a worse job and/or relies on US patents.

You clearly have never compared the examination process that is undertaken in the European patent office ( where they will dig up relevant or prior art not only from international patents but also from published papers and text books) with that of the USPTO who seem only to look at US patents and, even then, often miss out some critical ones.

Re:US patents are stupid

[AhabTheArab]

Apparently it's not as profitable for these entities to actually do what's best for the consumer.

Re:US patents are stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

How would you suggest running the patent office - the rest of the world generally does a worse job and/or relies on US patents.

You have a limited budget, and those skilled enough to investigate won't work for the money you can afford to pay them. Oh, and you have a legal requirement to deal with patents in a given time frame.

Sigh. There was a time when Einstein worked for the patent office. :-(

Of course, the problem is easy enough to solve. the patent investigators gets paid enough to hire competent personell. And this cost is paid by those who tries to get patents. So patents gets expensive, but they'll actually work as intended. And people won't try to get bogus patents when they are both expensive and likely to be rejected without getting the money back.

Re:US patents are stupid

[betterunixthanunix]

you have a legal requirement to deal with patents in a given time frame.

Then reject patents that you do not have time to examine. Seriously, the default policy of "accept based on the title" is what got us into the mess we are in right now. If the patent office is having trouble meeting its obligation to examine patents in a timely fashion, they need to hire more examiners. We are far too loose when to comes to giving patents, and we are going to get bitten really hard if we do not fix that problem.

Re:US patents are stupid

[EdgeyEdgey]

Define worse

Re:US patents are stupid

[gartogg]

1. (comparative of `bad') inferior to another in quality or condition or desirability; "this road is worse than the first one we took"; "the road is in worse shape than it was"; "she was accused of worse things than cheating and lying"
2. (comparative of `ill') in a less effective or successful or desirable manner; "he did worse on the second exam"

Re:US patents are stupid

[EdgeyEdgey]

Sorry, I don't see how quoting from a dictionary shows how the US patent system is superior to the rest of the world.

Woah... some of these patents are ridiculous.

[chemicaldave]

From the complaint itself...

The general technology at issue involves the playback of Blu-Ray Discs, i.e., the reproduction of data recorded on Blu-Ray Disc media. As discussed below, LGE hold patents addressed to certain elements of Blu-Ray Disc playback. for example, two of the Asserted Patents, the '080 patent and the '961 patent, relate to reproducing data from a recording medium, i.e., a Blu-Ray Disc, including linking areas and data areas. Another of the Asserted Patents, the '835 patent, relates to technology for managing the reproduction o f multiple data streams, e.g., multiple camera angles, that are recorded on a recording medium, i.e., a Blu-Ray Disc. The remaining Asserted Patent, the '398 patent, relates to technology for reproducing a text subtitle stream that is recorded on a recorded medium, i.e., a Blu-Ray Disc, and updating palette information, e.g., font color and opacity, for the text subtitle stream.

Jesus, does Microsoft have a patent for recreating font styles stored in a text document?

Re:Woah... some of these patents are ridiculous.

[TheDarkMaster]

Shhhhhh do not give ideas!

Re:Woah... some of these patents are ridiculous.

[noidentity]

In the future, I'm guessing there will be a patent on adding a plurality of integer values, each equaling one, to give the result two, and another on adding a plurality of integer values, one equaling one, the other equaling two, to give a result of three, etc.

Re:Woah... some of these patents are ridiculous.

[JBMcB]

This is why the patent system is broken. If you can't patent the idea of changing fonts and styles in a word processing document, you shouldn't be able to patent the same concept in a spreadsheet, or video player, or anywhere else. The technology is the same, you're just implementing it somewhere else. It's not groundbreaking, nor does it require huge amounts of development time.

Re:Woah... some of these patents are ridiculous.

[AlecC]

Which suggests to me that these patents could quite possibly be invalidated by a good (but therefore expensive) search for prior art. These all strike me as things that have probably been done before, but probably in a rather different manner. For example, I am sure that someone has recorded multiple camera angles on a single medium (e.g. a Raid array) before, but you need a lawyer to find the appropriate language to say that, as a recording medium, a raid array is the equivalent of a Blu-Ray,

Re:Woah... some of these patents are ridiculous.

[betterunixthanunix]

The patent system broke when we started allowing people to hold patents on algebra (well, algebra dressed up to look like something else):

http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/7778412.html

There are hundreds of similar stories: patents on elliptic curve methods, patents on lattice methods, and other patents on algebra/number theory. This is not even supposed to be possible, but for some reason patent examiners see the word "computer" and completely forget that they are reading about mathematics.

Re:Woah... some of these patents are ridiculous.

[ideaz]

well even if it did, nobodys interested to infringe it

Re:Woah... some of these patents are ridiculous.

[Confusador]

Presumably the patent is for the ability to do so consistently across versions.

Sheesh

[killmenow]

I'm a lawyer!
He's a lawyer!
She's a lawyer!
We're a lawyer!
Wouldn't you like to be a lawyer? SUE!

denying all these devices

[Vapula]

It would be fun if a couple of judges decided to act together and ban all the infringing devices...

Immediate ban on XBox, PS3, iPhone, Android Phones, Windows Phones, and so on...

I guess that it'd not take long before all these tech companies start to lobby against flacky patents and the associated lawsuits...

Re:denying all these devices

[Sponge Bath]

I think game starved youths would respond by hunting down these judges and ripping their skulls and spines from their bodies predator style.

Re:denying all these devices

[Runaway1956]

What I think is, you watch to many of those moronic movies. Game starved youths? WTF? Did you seriously mean what you typed? Let's face it - any "game starved youths" that you might meet are totally incapable of interacting with the power brokers of the world in any meaningful way. In your little scenario, those youths would just become a blip on police statistics charts. NYT headline reads, "Three more demented kids shot dead while trying to break into corporate offices in Manhattan."

Re:denying all these devices

[Revek]

Maybe they would mow the lawn or get off it at least.

Re:denying all these devices

[Sponge Bath]

Woah. Calm down cowboy.

Since you seem unaware, I don't believe people will literally tear out skulls and spines. If you are always this humorless, your life will be pretty grim.

Re:denying all these devices

[PitaBred]

It only takes one competent one, though. Odds are usually on the side of the masses.

Patents...

[Haedrian]

Driving Innovation Forward.

Since Sarcastic O'Clock.

Re:Patents...

[cpghost]

Patents are certainly driving innovation in the legalistic realm forward. There, fixed that for you.

Re:Dont Worry LG

[Anonymous Coward]

This just in... Sony doesn't care about you - they make their money off Pepsi drinking teenage kids whose parents buy them all of the latest gadgets and go out and buy bucketfuls of the latest PS3 games to stop the kids from whining.

How timely.

[jbplou]

LG jumped right on those infringements didn't they? Because the PS3 is a brand new product.

Re:How timely.

[Svartalf]

This is in response to a similar style of lawsuit Sony did to them over something in their phones that's been there for a bit. As someone pointed out, they're very likely both violating each others' patents in the manner the suits allege- it's just Sony showed the poor form of suing them instead of working out a deal with them first. But then, Sony's been showing poor/bad form for a while now in my not so humble opinion...things like asking for the people that viewed the jailbreak video GeoHotz put up on a private channel's a bit over the top and nothing that they really ought to be asking for.

Re:How timely.

[JBMcB]

To be fair, Sony only really started touting the PS3 as a blu-ray player with that spokesman guy they have fairly recently. And, since LG executives apparently get all their information through television, they've been in the dark about this capability until now.

Re:How timely.

[gl4ss]

well, they thought about countersuing using smartphone patents but then they realized that they're lucky goldstar and that they don't have any.

how about?

[ace418]

How about we dress their lawyers in suits of armor and let them fight to the death in gladiatorial combat, winner takes all!!! At least it would be more entertaining than all these pointless legal lawsuits that always end in transferring of "shut the hell up" money from side to the other.

Scenes from an interview at a high tech company

[PolygamousRanchKid]

Interviewer: "So what do you want to do here at our company?"

Interviewee: "I want to develop innovative products!"

Interviewer: "Sorry, we're looking for someone to help sue our competition. And any other company that we don't like, as well. Even if they aren't competition."

With all these lawsuits, instead of stories about who is suing who, it would be easier to report on which companies is not being sued:

"Hey, we found one! Company XXX is not being sued this week by anyone! Amazing!"

Re:Scenes from an interview at a high tech company

[0123456]

Even if they are not successful, I know that LG has just climbed to the top of my list next time I need to look for a piece of tech.

My LG Blu-Ray player stopped working after six months and has been in for warranty repairs for about nine months (about six months ago they said they couldn't fix it and would get me a replacement); so you might want to reconsider that.

Re:Wait...

[Fzz]

The US patent was filed in 2007, but the priority date is 2003 because LG hold a Korean patent dated 2003. The US has a "first to invent" patent system. The priority date on LG's US patent is the invention date - 2003 - not the filing date of 2007.

Maybe LG filed the US patent in 2007 because they could already see Sony infringed. But the US patent system allows that, so long as you can prove the invention date. Screwed up it may be, but that's the law in the US.

Most other places have a "first to file" system; they wouldn't get away with this on an EU patent for example.

Sad Lesson

[Anonymous Coward]

The only meaningful thing I've learnt from all this nonsense is that lawyers are smarter than tech companies :(.

Just goes to show...

[Stenchwarrior]

...school-yard fights and juvenile conflicts don't change when you get older...they just cost more and the bullies wear Armani.

Re:Just goes to show...

[BA16]

that using your sleeve to wipe your nose as a child directly transfers to the self image you have when you grow up. The bad thing is that once you put on an Armani suit to look better than the shadows of the bullies in your mind you really can't use your sleeve with out making your mom angry... and making the dry-cleaners think you're a nut case still dreaming of the principal's secrectary. Thank god I'm a construction worker.

LG staying out of Bly Ray Patent Pool?

[guidryp]

So does this mean LG plans to stay out of the Blu Ray pool and sue everyone making Blu Ray drives?
http://www.one-blue.com/patent-coverage/

Re:And the winner is...

[PopeRatzo]

I find it alarming that so many people are quick to blame the companies doing the suing. They may be crooks, but it was government that made them who they are. It was government that encouraged them to exploit the legal system, because the more they do so, the more government benefits. It is government and ONLY government that holds the key to all this.

Can I start the nominations for the Stupidest Slashdot Comments of 2011?

Re:Dont Worry LG

[PopeRatzo]

Sony doesn't care about you - they make their money off Pepsi drinking teenage kids whose parents buy them all of the latest gadgets and go out and buy bucketfuls of the latest PS3 games to stop the kids from whining.

I hope not for Sony's sake. Those parents have lost their jobs and their houses are in foreclosure and their credit cards are maxed out. Sony may need to review their business model.

Re:meh sony

[Vectormatic]

Hell, i'm hoping samsung joins in and slaps Sony silly as well, i like their TVs slightly better ;)

Not to mention the whole Oracle Vs Android stuff (which samsung is a part of), but that is slightly more paradoxical, since i make my living mostly with java..

Better

[fnj]

How about we dress their lawyers in suits of armor and let them fight to the death in gladiatorial combat, winner takes all!!! At least it would be more entertaining than all these pointless legal lawsuits that always end in transferring of "shut the hell up" money from side to the other.

No armor! Send them out into the arena naked and unarmed and have lions rip them all apart.

Re:Better

[Quiet_Desperation]

Why would you do that to the poor things?

I mean, the lions would get gippy tummies from eating a bunch of miseryshit lawyers.

Re:Better

[Scarletdown]

How about giving them a night of Rehabilitation then?

Re:Wait...

[bhtooefr]

Except the US is only first-to-invent-if-you-file-within-a-year, I thought.

So, if you invent, and then wait over a year to file, no patent for you, at least if the examiner is competent, and if my understanding is correct.

Re:Wait...

[jrumney]

Even in Europe you can use a foreign patent to establish an earlier priority date. IIRC, you have 12 months from the original patent being granted to file in other countries before the priority is lost.

Re:And the winner is...

[silanea]

You missed step number 1, in which those companies went on a shopping spree within the government and bought themselves a legal system that allows for this nonsense in the first place.

Serendipity

[SethThresher]

I think I'll just leave this here, it just seems strangely appropriate:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&t=k&ll=34.015137,-118.791438&z=17

Re:Serendipity

[SethThresher]

^Nevermind, wrong story. So much PS3 news right now, amirite?

scum

[Quiet_Desperation]

It's like little kids squabbling on a playground.

Irony

[AJH16]

Am I the only one that finds it horribly ironic that this showed up on my RSS feed immediately after a /. post about Sony going after the people that found the root keys for their PS3? Sony goes on law suit rampage over PS3 root key leak. Sony sued for violating LG patents in PS3. Classy.

This is surprising, how?

[revlayle]

SO, this is all business as usual in the technology industry, right?

Re:Wait...

[Fzz]

You're correct - I forgot about that. But isn't it 12 months from publication, not 12 months from invention? I don't know if filing a Korean patent counts as publication, or only when the Korean patent is granted. Perhaps they filed the patent in Korea in 2003, were granted it in 2006 establishing the publication date, and filed the US patent.

Another posibility is they did also file a US patent in 2003/4, and the 2007 US patent is a continuation patent based on the 2003 material but with amended claims. That happens all the time.

But I'm not a lawyer - just successfully contested a coulple of patents in court as an expert witness.

I though streaming solved all this?

[mnslinky]

Does any of this really matter? Doesn't Netflix streaming solve most of this stuff? Hell, since their streaming service started having decent content, we haven't purchased a DVD. For those titles that aren't available to stream, they send us a DVD, but even that is likely to go away sooner than later.

Re:I though streaming solved all this?

[jgtg32a]

Video is heavily compressed and the audio is even worse. Streaming does not match the quality of BD

Re:I though streaming solved all this?

[Xtifr]

Unfortunately, the only device I own that is able to stream Netflix is a old PS3, which I bought in part because it had the Other OS option.

Re:I though streaming solved all this?

[Whatsisname]

It will until Netflix gets sued for violating patent "technology for reproducing a metadata stream that is streamed from a real time source" or some similar nonsense

Re:I though streaming solved all this?

[Labcoat Samurai]

This is true, so there will, of course, always be a market for it. But I wonder how many people care that much? I find it plenty good enough, and being able to pick the movie I want from a menu and watch it beats fiddling with discs even if we aren't considering that every blu ray movie individually accounts for 2-3 months of Netflix.

Re:And the winner is...

[bhtooefr]

Except when you have a representative democracy where big business controls the media.

Then, even if people don't accept the bribe, they just get voted out and replaced with puppets of the big business.

And consumers pay for it

[EmagGeek]

All of the billions of dollars spent on patent litigation every year come out of our pockets...

Re:Wait...

[TheRaven64]

First to file is better because the entire point of the patent system is to encourage disclosure. With a first to invent system, the best strategy is to keep your invention private, wait until someone else files, and then say 'we invented that first, we'll take that patent please'. With first to invent, if you invent but don't disclose then the only thing that you can do when someone else independently invents something is prevent them from acquiring a patent (prior art). This has two effects. The first is that people who want patents disclose early. The second is that stuff that is invented by two people in a short time doesn't get patented at all.

Time For

[truk138]

Blue ray to be remotely removed . no one uses that feature anyway :P

Re:Good.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I suspect that, on the whole, incumbents benefit more than they suffer from patents(because of their ability to enforce their incumbency and create quasi-cartel arrangments, like the DVD CCA or the 4C Entity, legally). However, it is hardly true that patent trolls don't harm them. Trolling people who have pitiful amounts of money is, after all, not that valuable, while threatening entities that have large amounts of cash(and products that they absolutely cannot risk injunctions against) is where the money is.

Were the balance not favorable, we'd see a lot more action about reforming the system; but it is a balance...

Re:Wait...

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

... you can't plural an adverb.

Not with that attitude you can't.

That group of judges would simply

[rsborg]

...be removed, blacklisted, and potentially disappeared.

Justice these days seems to rely on corporate coffers.

Re:And the winner is...

[ifiwereasculptor]

Man, that's just plain bad conspiracy theory. Don't blame on evil masterminds what's just plain old stupidity. Courts are already extremely powerful and the system's increased complexity and overencumberance benefits directly lawyers, since they can charge more and remain employed in the same case for longer, not legislators. And it's lawyers who are trying to milk the cow dead and making all this mess. The government is only an incompetent institution made of incompetent beings and doesn't know how to deal with it, thinking that everything can be solved by legislating more intead of delegislating. For the mandatory bad metaphor, it's like a plumber that refuses to use anything other than screwdrivers to fix leaks.

HD-DVD

[geekoid]

is laughing it's ass off.

The enemy of my enemy

[klui]

I just bought an LG TV. Not planning on buying nor recommend others buy Sony for a long, long time.

Re:The enemy of my enemy

[Tukz]

So you trade down, to make a point?
Joke's on you.