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JAXA To Use Fishing Nets To Scoop Up Space Junk
An anonymous reader writes "We've seen high-fallutin proposals to tackling the space junk problem before — and now the Japanese space agency JAXA has teamed up with Japanese fishing net maker Nitto Seimo to haul in some of the 100,000-plus objects of space junk orbiting the planet. AJAXA satellite will deploy and release a kilometers-wide net made by Nitto Seimo of ultra-thin triple layered metal threads. The net will gradually be drawn into Earth's magnetic field and burned up along with the abandoned satellites, engine parts and other litter it's collected."
clean up that thar space junks...git-r-doooone
What are they doing to make sure the net doesn't also entrap space dolphins?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
One potential snag in their line (see what I did there?) could be the fact that some of these objects are moving in different or opposing directions. A single BB at 20000 km/h can burn through a solar panel array, what's to stop it from passing through a fine net? It'll still clean up lots of junk even with a greater-than-anticipated amount of holes, but there will certainly be discrepancies between projected results and actual.
What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
The satellite with the net must spend a lot of time and fuel maneuvering to match velocities with the junk. At typical orbital collision speeds the net would have little chance of catching anything.
"ABC News reports that since JAXA launched it's 'Space Net', mysteriously all communication and research satellites have been taken offline, except the ones belonging to Japan. As a result, stock prices for communications companies world-wide have plummeted except, of course, in Japan and have created panic and chaos on a global scale. Companies are now struggling to build and deploy hundreds of new satellites, but in the meantime are forced to piggy-pack services across Japan-based companies. For now, ABC news must be referred to as JBC. Back to you, Chou Youn..."
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And the net isn't going to be ripped apart by space junk going at a high delta compared to it? If that happens, will spall be created which will just add to the amount of dangerous space debris up there?
This might work for the bigger pieces that are easier to dodge, but what about all those smaller pieces that are much harder to track and evade? Is it possible to build a huge array of the gel that they used to collect fragments and dust from comets and use that to collect a lot of the much smaller pieces? Or are there some technical limitations to this, such as the debris having such a high velocity that they'd just punch right through the gel?
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
1. This thing is just going to be the biggest piece of space junk until it burns up.
2. Unless it's got propulsion units, it's not going to sweep anything up, because it's just going to move at the same speed they are in that orbit.
3. If it's going to cross orbits, it's going to run into the problem of large objects hitting it at high velocities.
4. The first thing of any size that hits it at a low speed is going to ball it up, unless, again, it's got some sort of propulsion units to unfold it again, but that will just un-bag the thing it caught.
5. Anything of any size that hits it at high speed is going to poke right through it.
6. Anything in an orbit that this thing can reach and still bring back to Earth is in an orbit that's decaying on its own just fine domo arigato.
7. Many things in those orbits are supposed to be there and are still operational and very expensive; a lot more expensive than this titanium handi-wipe.
8. Stupid publicity stunt by a fish-net manufacturer. Pass the maguro sashimi and pardon my snicker.
We're whalers on the moon,
We carry a harpoon.
But there ain't no whales
So we tell tall tales
And sing our whaling tune.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
...with an aquarium net. Good luck with that.
I read the headline too quickly.
At first I thought it was going to be an article about some new garbage collector for Java.
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth
Somebody should tell Jaxa it was only an anime , not a documentation :).... Planet es
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
I can just imagine giant, expanding NERF spheres circling the globe, picking up garbage as they slowly get pulled back to burn up in atmo and cleaning up projected space paths. Launch them from drones or the ISS -- you can never have enough NERF!
NERF IN SPAAAAAACE!!
JAVA already has an awesome automatic garbage collector. Oh wait...
If you look at the details, there is no net involved. A company which makes nets is also able to make webbed rope-like material, and this is being considered for installation on a satellite before launch. When the satellite is no longer useful, the electrically-conductive tether would be extended, and induced electromagnetic forces would drag the satellite out of orbit.
This might work for the bigger pieces that are easier to dodge, but what about all those smaller pieces that are much harder to track and evade? Is it possible to build a huge array of the gel that they used to collect fragments and dust from comets and use that to collect a lot of the much smaller pieces? Or are there some technical limitations to this, such as the debris having such a high velocity that they'd just punch right through the gel?
Given the velocities a small object may be more likely to vaporize. I think the problem would be with the gel or foam losing material during impacts. Are we replacing one bit of debris with multiple bits? At orbital velocities a piece of gel or foam, or a blob of water, is quite dangerous.
The probes that collect fragments and dust maneuver to and match velocities with the target to a degree that the material can withstand the impact and be captured. They are not just put in a collision path and take a full velocity hit.
...but skynet is finally here!
This Stretch of Space Cleared by JAXA, keeping the space lanes beautiful.
Free as in "the Truth shall set you..."
The junk that's moving too fast will just rip through it. Much of the orbiting space junk moves at such high speeds that cause it to liquefy when it collides with other objects.
I read the title, and the post, and before looking into the article, I thought, "Whats this about Japan, and Java, and AJAX calls, and outer space junk..." I also mistook "fallutin" for a medicine, so ya the post was about that too for about a few seconds. Jeez. I'm slow.
What the heck are you reading? From TFA (and TFS accurately):
A JAXA satellite will deploy and release a kilometers-wide net made by Nitto Seimo of ultra-thin triple layered metal threads.
And that's about as far as it goes. TFA says nothing about tethers.
Was this story not refuted by JAXA?
There is no fishing net. A long wire will be attached to just larger pieces of space junk. The wire will cause drag because of charges absorbed by the wire and the interaction with the Earths magnetic field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoTZDQxoyFg
Of course Japan would be the ones to bother with this. Thank you, Planetes
well?
I reeled back in horror....that sinking feeling you get from the destruction of the world as you know it....I thought--for a minute--it was another Java framework until I was able to read the rest of the post. The shock melts away as I realize its just a good-old-fashioned stupid idea.
If you were driving around looking for a house to rob, would you stop at a house with broken toys, an old Chevy up on cinder-blocks and assorted other junk on the front lawn? No, you would just keep on driving, looking for a clean, well-kept lawn: "Hey, this house must have something inside worth stealing!"
The same effect would work on evil aliens, cruising around space, look for a planet to maraud on. When they see all the space junk, they will just keep flying by: "What a bunch of crap that is orbiting that planet! It's worth landing there, Korg!"
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Instead of throwing all that potentially valuable material into the pacific ocean, why not coral it all into one big "trash heap" and recycle it? After, it takes a lot more energy to put something into orbit than it does to move something to another orbit. At the very least, the trash heap could serve as a testing ground for space manufacturing processes.
This doesn't sound like it would work! It's not as easy as netting fish in an ocean. We are talking about very high velocities here. If the orbital velocity of a piece of space junk doesn't closely match the orbital velocity of the net, it probably will blast right through the net. There are stories about a paint chip putting a crater in the space shuttles windshield. There is just that amount of energy involved. A possible scenario.... You are going after a piece of space debris and another piece of space debris collides with the net. The second piece, which you were not going after, is going to damage the net. Remember, they are talking about very large nets, the probability of this happening is not small.
Ya right - they gonna take over space by reusing all the junk to make super-space-bots!!! It's a ploy by carver-entertainment to
control all human activity............
Seriously if you spend so much getting those atoms up there why not just keep them there until someone can reuse them
for something else. Can't cost that much to send up the recycling equipment?
I'll catch this bird for you, but it ain't gonna be easy. Not some LEO screw or spaceman's glove. Bad sat, 1960s. Three tons of 'im. Geosynchronous 'fore it went driftin'. RTG battery backup. This sat, swallow you whole. Little shakin', little tenderizin', an' down you go. And we gotta do it quick, that'll bring back your uplinks, put all your businesses on a payin' basis. But it's not gonna be pleasant. I value my neck a lot more than $300 million, chief. I'll find him for three, but I'll catch him, and graveyard him, for ten. But you've gotta make up your minds. If you want to stay alive, then ante up. If you want to play it cheap, rely on fiber-op. I don't want no salarymen, I don't want no mission specialists, there's just too many captains on this island. One billion dollars for me by myself. For that you get the bus, the payload, the solar panels, the whole damn thing.
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
The show was set on the United Galaxies Sanitation Patrol Cruiser, an interstellar garbage scow operating out of United Galaxies Space Station Perma One in the year 2222. Adam Quark, the main character, works to clean up trash in space by collecting "space baggies" - unfortunately for Quark, while circumstances frequently dropped adventure into his lap, he was always ordered back to collecting garbage when the action was over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_(TV_series)
It's Japan. I thought we'd see something more akin to Mega Maid
We're all doomed. Skynet is real.
Kinda like the gelatinous cubes in AD&D would clean up the dungeons. Figure out a way to manufacture aerogel cubes in space. NASA used aerogels to capture cometary particles because the high impact velocity with a solid would obliterate or vaporize the particles. It could turn a small piece of debris into a thousand smaller pieces of debris. An aerogel would decelerate the particle slowly enough that it could be captured intact. You want something like a cube because you want a big cross-sectional area to increase the chance of a collision - a sphere is the least effective design. Just put a bunch of them in known orbits. The smaller debris like paint chips which hits them will be captured within the gel. The bigger debris we already track and can be avoided. After a few decades, either de-orbit them, or just leave them up there since each should be big enough for us to track.
It's not old rockets up on blocks and dead satellites that are the problem. IT's the paint chips, bolts, wrenches, the tiny junk that causes issues. they need a electristatic space duster to sweep up the tiny crap that is the main concern. a second stage of a rocket that can be tracked is not that big of a deal.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
A JAXA satellite was struck with orbital debris and now we have a bunch of very large fish net type objects in orbit.
When reached for comment JAXA said this in an official release: "@$#^&!"
... to Vulcan High Command: Do not send any further scout crafts to this location. Our attempt to setup a surveillance station has been foiled by an unexpected, yet primitive, weapon system. Cannot ascertain whether the weapon is of Earth origin as the markings on it are not in the expected Earth-based language. We have seen the markings on archival footage belonging to the alien race responsible for the enormous reptilian-like monster sent to destroy Earth cities. Live long and prosper. *End of transmission*
Bob Cringely wrote about this very idea about 1.5 years ago. http://www.cringely.com/2009/11/tossed-in-space/
It's sad really. We spend tens of thousands of dollars to get every bit of this "junk" onto orbit, and the best thing we can come up to do with it is rope it in and burn it up in the atmosphere. If we could undertake a major push into developing infrastructure on orbit, all of this space debris would be a potential gold mine of recyclable materials. We could capture spent Centaur and other upper vehicle stages, refuel them, and use them for one off moon shots. We could capture the free-floating thermal blankets and staple them back onto spacecraft being built in space. If only we would invest in the future to utilize past mistakes, rather than scold ourselves in penitence and try to back peddle.
Each kg of matter on orbit is worth, at minimum, ~$2000 USD. And here we are, roping it up and letting it burn. Space junk could be a jobs program. Instead it's become a disposal project.
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
Why would you let all that stuff burn up in the atmosphere when you could sell it on eBay?
For Sale: SPACE SHIT, NO RESERVE.
Great, just great. That orbital Hefty bag is going to pull all that space junk down to Earth. One piece will land in the pacific ocean and it's nuclear reactor or cosmic radiation or stowaway aliens will awaken Godzilla and then where we be.
I note exactly one comment out of more than a hundred that not only appears to question the "butterfly net in space" meme, but bothered to track down the likely project: http://www.timog.com/brb/jaxa-plans-to-clean-up-space-debris-with-hi-tech-net As the picture shows (perhaps there are Japanese sources with real details), the idea is to send a tether to dock with a specific satellite at its end-of-life. Both tether and satellite would then de-orbit. This is really a substitute for building end-of-life capabilities into the original satellite. ...or maybe 1 out of 100 is a good batting average for slashdot.
imagine flys were as explosive as a stick of dynamite and you want to catch them driving down the interstate with a flyswatter. That is pretty much what a space net gets you. Since you dont want dynamite hitting your car at 75mph i suggest you get out of your car and be a little more gentle. Now your delta velocity is small enough the flys wont explode. The trouble is you wont catch many flys in the vast sparcely populated ditch we call LEO. taking out large objects with tethers is the only practical solution as TFA does.
As far as I can tell this story started making the rounds after an item appeared in The Telegraph -- a UK paper that's home to some of the most inaccurate and irresponsible science coverage in the known world. ScienceInsider explains that the net-making company has made a few test samples of a tether that could be attached to dead satellites to generate drag, but they aren't making a space net!! And JAXA has zero plans to implement this.
From the article linked to below: "It's a bit of a bother. We're getting a lot of inquiries from overseas asking if it's true," says JAXA spokesperson Eisuke Aizawa. It's not.
http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2011/02/space-age-fish-tale-gets-lost-in.html
I hear all these high falutin claims about how the Earth's gravity this, gravity that, but yet those hunks of lifeless metal are still flying effortlessly? Do we need to replenish our gravity supply?
I guess I should give up on my giant space broom project now.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
And there i thought: finally some good use for that memory hog.
Just where do you get the air from in space to make aerogels, or to keep them aerated?
Unfortunately, it runs on a separate thread.
Im really just curious about this, Im not a guy whos interested in space exploration and stuff but how do they track the location and time to do it? just wondering, If I were there id use my gps time tracking app from tsheets.com
This is clearly an outsized application of the well known "Tangled KiteWire System", as pioneered and exibited, repeatedly, by Messr. Charles Brown, in the latter part of the last Century.
Why not use Brer Rabbit tar dolls? Er, hydrocarbonaceous anthropomorphic degenerate orbital artifacts? I do, howerver, still stand by my old "mentos and soda-pop" sugar carmel space-memebrane (space cotton-candy) orbital goopball proposal. If it doesn't work, at first, just throw more sugar at it.
The sugar can come from corn syrup, instead of sugar cane. Or beets. And the charred sugar dust will also help fight global warming, when it reahes the upper atmosphere and spreads in a shadowy clowd, helping to cool the planet. At a certain point onward, though, It will be difficult to keep microorganisms from colonizing the cloud. And ants, stratospheric spiders (they *do* exist, dream about them, tonight ;> ) ... and cockroaches ... and so on. Nature is, after all. :)
"A company which makes nets is also able to make webbed rope-like material"
Yes, but that's for swinging between buildings in a red and blue suit.
TIP: It won't work.
The problem with space junk is that it goes so fast.
Why don't you worry about flies hitting the windshield of your car on the freeway? They move at a relative speed of about 100km/h (60mph), which is harmless (not if it hits your eye, but as long as it hits the windshield you're ok....).
In orbit, you're travelling at 27000 km/h (16000 mph) minimum. Things you might hit, could be moving in the same direction. Collisions with small objects are then harmless. But if they are moving in a different direction they might be moving at up to 50000 km/h (30000 mph). Now a collision with something as small as a dust particle IS a problem. It will go through almost anything. (I know the top end of the range is unlikely for man-made orbiting junk: the man-made junk is almost always moving with the rotation of the earth....).
So if you put a net in orbit and you encounter a piece of junk of a ton, and it moves at more than say 20km/h (12mph), it wil rip your net apart. If you encounter a screw at more than a few hundred km/h it will go straight through your net.
In all, I don't think you'll catch much....
This net thing is a great yarn, but I'm sorry to say it's just not true. As the good people at Science point out, the original press-release was about a space tether that could be used to collect debris. It's now gotten way out of hand. Of course a space "net" isn't going to work. The amount of space you'd have to cover is enormous, and in many cases there's no way to discrimnate between junk and LEO satellites. Also, the relative velocities of the different bits of debris mean that the net would be literally trying to catch bullets.
We're gonna need a bigger boat
Still gotta take care of Godzilla though...
I'm reading stories like this one which are a few days older than the mangled web-catching stories. It's a tether, not a net.