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Out of Egypt Censorship, US Tech Export Under Fire
AndyAndyAndyAndy writes "After it was exposed that American firm Narus had sold Egypt the Deep Packet Inspection equipment used to spy on and censor its citizens, the US House Committee on Foreign Relations held a hearing where Reps. Chris Smith and Bill Keating 'grilled Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg on the sale of this Internet spying technology to an Egyptian Internet provider controlled by the Mubarak regime.' It seems there is now a push for stronger controls and monitoring for technology exports 'that would provide a national strategy to prevent the use of American technology from being used by human rights abusers.'"
Several readers have noted that Hosni Mubarak has now stepped down as president of Egypt. Control of the country's affairs has been passed to the high council of its armed forces, which has some journalists and bloggers worried.
TFS: "that would provide a national strategy to prevent the use of American technology from being used by human rights abusers"
No time to worry, as this is the first time that the controls already in place failed.
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
It seems there is now a push for stronger controls and monitoring for technology exports 'that would provide a national strategy to prevent the use of American technology from being used by human rights abusers.'"
I can't see that getting through unless the small print includes a special exception for Israel.
Domestic use of DPI still perfectly acceptable.
Opportunity knocks,
Karma hunts you down.
Do you smell that? That's the smell of the middle eastern dictators and kings collectively shitting their pants.
I call it 'The Aristocrats'
Based on how well the Egyptian army has handled itself these past few weeks and how they tried to stay as independent as possible I think it may actually be a GOOD thing that they are taking over for now. Better the army than the Muslim Brotherhood.
Narus stock then dipped as expectations of domestic sales tanked.
Does this include the annoyingly named, "Great Firewall of China" that U.S. tech companies built?
If we don't provide technology to be used by human rights abusers, then someone else will! I thought preserving profits was an implicit part of the golden rule. (He who has the gold makes the rules).
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
According to my Egyptian friends and from common knowledge of the region, the people in general are not against a military run country in the interim between dictatorship and democracy. It assures stability while also assuring that things are changing. The culture of Egypt is very intertwined with the military, almost every family has at least one person actively serving, so when they chant "The military and the people are one" they aren't being selective as to exactly who in the military they're talking about. The military up to this point was already seen and acted as an unbiased arbitrator not influenced by politics. As has been stated, they are there to protect Egypt and the people of Egypt and will not spill Egyptian blood. They're probably the very best group to hold the country together in the potentially long process of redrafting a constitution and instituting a democratic system.
We don't care when this sort of technology is used on our own citizens. Why would we get bent out of shape when it's used on Egyptians?
Any guesses as to whether these congress liars support the USA's foreign aid given backing the same dictator over the past 30 years?
This coming from the government that invented the PATRIOT act, national security letters and directly taps internet backbones. Do members of congress not understand what hypocrisy is or do they just not care?
For now I think the US will do all it can to support the NEW Egypt. American companies have a rare opportunity to show their goodwill and do more business with Egypt. Most of the top American companies already have headquarters in Egypt, like Google, Microsoft and others.... Restoring good business ties will strengthen democracy. Sounds better than shady deals for military technology meant for terrorizing citizens.
Like the US?
The deeper you dig, the stronger the stench!
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
From http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/02/07/133503696/the-friday-podcast-egypts-military-inc "So far, the Egyptian military has largely sided with the protesters in the streets of Cairo. This is not only because the military supports the people; it's also because the military sells the people lots of stuff."
"Love is a familiar; Love is a devil: there is no evil angel but Love." --William Shakespeare ('Love's Labors Lost')
tear gas.
Cheer!
Yours In Novosbirsk,
Kilgore Trout, C.I.O.
...given the billions of dollars in military aid and training the USA has offered to Mubarak's regime - the teargas branded "made in USA" was just the obvious part.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
In the short term, the technology facilitates repression. But if it gives the oppressive government an illusion of control over the citizens, then the citizens simultaneously enjoy greater internet access, and the increased access to information will eventually create a backlash too difficult to suppress.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,710810,00.html
The Muslim Brotherhood are not fanatics. They are the real equivalent of our Southern Baptists, stuffy old conservative men who want a society centered on religion. They have always condemned violence, and continually speak out against all terrorism. I wouldn't want to see them elected any more than I want our country ruled by Southern Baptists, but they are not radical terrorist Muslims. Oh, you will find some people claiming they are, but those are the same people who would believe a Muslim stamp collecting club was a terrorist organization. You won't find Al Qaeda praising the Muslim Brotherhood, indeed, all radical Muslims condemn it as too moderate.
As I said, i wouldn't want to see them elected, not because they would attack Israel, or turn against us, but they might require women to wear Burkhas and a lot of them seem quite keen on stoning adulterers. Not good, but not suicide bombers, either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
"that would provide a national strategy to prevent the use of American technology from being used by human rights abusers."
They forgot to put "in search of Terrorists" at the end.....
The final question in the grilling by Reps. Chris Smith and Bill Keating to Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg...
"So, how much does this cost and why don't we have it in place here already?"
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
Yes, it is a little scary to think that the military might use this opportunity to take control, but I think there are a few reasons we don't need to worry about that.
1. The military is nearly all conscripts. When Mubarak asked the military to push back the protesters, the soldiers instead participated. I'm willing to trust that they are on the side of the people in this case.
2. The US will never stand for the military taking power, and at $1.3 billion per year, I think the military will listen.
For right now, I think we are just going to have to trust that the military is going to help foster Egypt's transition to democracy because there isn't anyone else that has the capability.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
Oh, God, we wouldn't want to worry the *bloggers*, now would we?
US; "This is a guy that Mubarak took up on the basis of his supreme competence," says Lang, who first met Suleiman in 1987 while working as the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Officer for the Middle East and has maintained ties with him. He recalls their first meeting in Cairo, seated opposite one another at a palace conference and dining together every night.
"He is a very humorous guy. A dry, witty sort of person," says Lang. He describes Suleiman as considerate, willing to listen to subordinates, and the most capable man in the current government.
the victims; Vice President in his over 30 years rule, intelligence chief Omar Suleiman. When Suleiman was first announced, Al-jazeera commentators were describing him as a “distinguished” and “respected ” man. It turns out, however, that he is distinguished for, among other things, his central role in Egyptian torture and in the US rendition-to-torture program. Further, he is “respected” by US officials for his cooperation with their torture plans, among other initiatives.
Katherine Hawkins, an expert on the US’s rendition-to-torture program, in an email, has sent some critical texts where Suleiman pops up. Thus, Jane Mayer, in The Dark Side, pointed to Suleiman’s role in the rendition program:
Each rendition was authorized at the very top levels of both governments.The long-serving chief of the Egyptian central intelligence agency, Omar Suleiman, negotiated directly with top Agency officials. [Former U.S. Ambassador to Egypt] Walker described the Egyptian counterpart, Suleiman, as “very bright, very realistic,” adding that he was cognizant that there was a downside to “some of the negative things that the Egyptians engaged in, of torture and so on. But he was not squeamish, by the way” (pp. 113).
Stephen Grey, in Ghost Plane, his investigative work on the rendition program also points to Suleiman as central in the rendition program:
To negotiate these assurances [that the Egyptians wouldn't "torture" the prisoner delivered for torture] the CIA dealt principally in Egypt through Omar Suleiman, the chief of the Egyptian general intelligence service (EGIS) since 1993. It was he who arranged the meetings with the Egyptian interior ministry. Suleiman, who understood English well, was an urbane and sophisticated man. Others told me that for years Suleiman was America’s chief interlocutor with the Egyptian regime — the main channel to President Hosni Mubarak himself, even on matters far removed from intelligence and security.
Suleiman’s role in the rendition program was also highlighted in a Wikileaks cable:
the context of the close and sustained cooperation between the USG and GOE on counterterrorism, Post believes that the written GOE assurances regarding the return of three Egyptians detained at Guantanamo (reftel) represent the firm commitment of the GOE to adhere to the requested principles. These assurances were passed directly from Egyptian General Intelligence Service (EGIS) Chief Soliman through liaison channels — the most effective communication path on this issue. General Soliman’s word is the GOE’s guarantee, and the GOE’s track record of cooperation on CT issues lends further support to this assessment. End summary.
Suleiman wasn’t just the go-to bureaucrat for when the Americans wanted to arrange a little torture. This “urbane and sophisticated man” apparently enjoyed a little rough stuff himself.
The sale of IT equipment is an issue, but the abundance of US arms sold to the Egyptian government by the US government is not worth addressing? I am a bit confused on the US governments priorities.
Lemme guess... he was the best politician in Egypt until the protests started! Kinda sounds like the new Saddam to me! why do people in the Us still beleive in their government?
It's rather silly to discuss legislative limits to technology transfer at this late date. It is already mostly done. The big Western tech companies have already sold what they had to sell to the highest bidders. We were explicitly warned about this. The clearest and most apropos warning of how Western technology companies were selling censorship technology to repressive regimes came from Hacktivismo, years ago. Please see their article Waging Peace on the Internet (probably not work safe, depending on your workplace), and see whether it exactly describes this story. I especially like the 'pigs at the trough not noticing the bacon being trimmed off their a$$' metaphor.
difficult times call for real people, real numbers, house cleaning etc....
I wonder what exactly does the US companies do with this software? Spy on US citizens? Is it ok to spy on US citizens but not some guys trying to coordinate terrorist activities
I thought we were moving away from selling products and going with a licensed model... We can figure out how to disable basic copy-paste and lending of e-books. We should DRM our exports, and switch off functionality in cases of repressive regimes use.
Shouldn't we worry about our technology being used by human rights abusers here in America first?
Oh please.
This has been done on a massive scale by CISCO to China ever since the DOT com crash in 2001. It is probably the only reason why the company hasn't declared bankruptcy or wasn't bought out since then.
At least I do not know any of my friends who buy CISCO closed proprietary crap for their networks, so I am not sure how this company continues to stay in business.
Although, I seen a CISCO camera at Office Max (it was crap), so maybe they have other ways of ripping off people while they are not selling gear to hunt down people for tyrannical dictatorships to torture or kill.
But what a crock. _NOW_ they are having issues with American companies selling stuff to foreign governments? What a load of bull.
These same idiots have bills in congress right now to hunt down every one of you Facebook addicts that same anything bad about democrats or republicans.
How anyone can listen to anyone in our government now days with a straight face is beyond me.
-Hackus
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
Contrary to the mainstream US media's beliefs, the Egyptian people may be capable of choosing a governmental system apart from fascist dictators or religious extremists....
"They all want Sharia law".
No they don't. Prove your statement.
Narus and NarusInsight were in fact developed by an Israeli company, so it's more accurate to say that it's Israeli technology.
"now a push for stronger controls and monitoring for technology exports 'that would provide a national strategy to prevent the use of American technology from being used by human rights abusers.'"
Where is the grilling of our own country's use of this technology to spy on our citizens? Yeah, I thought so, not a single word. That'd be looking in the past and we never do that. Nope never...
Honestly, this is consistent with what the US has been saying for the past 10 years on any human rights abuse. We've continued to rack up our own abuses and as long as the targets are "terrorists" or "Muslims" or whatever the current boogeyman, it's OK if the US does these things. Meanwhile, out of the other side of our mouth, while we continue these abusive and repressive tactics, we have the gall to point the finger at other countries, ones who we even have supported and ASKED to do our repression because it gives the US some value, we point our finger and tsk tsk tsk, spying, invasion of privacy, these are the things of tyrants and dictators... let the sound of freedom ring...
Nope, not even a hint of irony there...
Separation of church and state was stated to prevent congress from enacting law which would prevent or otherwise curtail the freedom of people practicing religion; it was not a statement which would prevent religion from being practiced in such things as school, or any other government-backed organization. Most people think that separation of church and state is a hard piece of legislation, which it is not. To think that decisions made within state are made without religious bias is naive and those who seek firm separation really don't understand the implications of that. Imagine that any place you go, which was subsidized by governement funds, would adhere to this clear separation, and anything it deems as religion...even the absense of religion as being a religion. Well, then everything would collapse - we would have a state which criminalized such behavior since we all rely on the state (roads, voting, police, fire-fighers, libraries, etc). Usually this separation is just a mechanism for people to identify differences and try and make other people compromise their freedom.
"Control of the country's affairs has been passed to the high council of its armed forces, which has some journalists and bloggers worried."
Rejoice! A civilian dictatorship has been replaced with a military dictatorship! What could go wrong?
BAD to sell of technology that inhibit human rights but GOOD to buy technology from countries who inhibit human rights during the manufacturing of technology? If we truly believe in human rights then we shouldn't be buying cheap products from a country who run sweat shops, especially when it undermines a fair market concept. To be fair we all need to play by the same rules, that does not however mean lowering our standards but simply encouraging a higher standard.
I would say don't buy anything made in china not because we didn't make it but because the cheapness of the product is the result of human suffering and the only way to otherwise compete is to reduce our regulations and rights to there standards. This however is unacceptable, the alternative is just stop buying things from those countries and either go without or find a more humane source.
The republican parties move to lower regulations is a obvious attempt to make us more competitive by lowering our standards, and we the working class will suffer for it.
The first amendment has two clauses relating to religion. First is the establishment clause. Its purpose is to keep the government from proselytizing or otherwise pushing a particular religion upon the people.
The second is the exercise clause which, as you have indicated, is to prevent the government from interfering with people's religion.
The phrase "separation of church and state" was coined by Thomas Jefferson when he described how these two clauses, taken together, are intended to create a wall of separation between church and state:
Prior to the civil war this was not especially controversial. It wasn't until the 14th amendment was ratified that it became a major concern. The 14th amendment made the first amendment (and all other rights) apply at the state level as well as the federal. Prior to the 14th amendment it was commonplace for schools to intermingle with religion.
I don't know anyone who thinks that. Most people realize that it is in the constitution which is much more solid than a 'hard' piece of legislation.
The first amendment has nothing to do with government employees having personal religious beliefs and biases. The rest of your post is based upon this fundamental misunderstanding.
Perhaps that lack of clarity is why the constitution does not succinctly state "separation of church and state", but rather spells it out with two separate clauses.
Too bad I used up my mod points. Informative and insightful, thanks.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Boeing bought Narus in 2010. Boeing is best known for its civilian aircraft, but it is also a huge military contractor.
QUICK SELL YOUR CISCO STOCK. Wait, all those countries that are pro-US dictatorships are officially denoted as 'jolly nice strong leaders of their happy happy people so it's smooth sailing.
"On today's Planet Money, we look at the Egyptian military's deep business ties to everything from dishwashers to resort hotels. And we consider how those ties influence how the military responds to the crisis."
Which suggests the Egyptian military be might more in tune with economic reality than the governments of many other countries. It will be interesting to see what they do next.
Barak Hussain Obama is the Chief abuser of human rights, civil rights, laws (local, state, federal, internation, world), morality and ethics on a scale that dwarfs Adolf Hitler!
-308
In other news: Google has, as of yesterday, started to actively report Chinese users or proxies/VPN's to the Chinese government. Can we be upset about this please? As someone living in China the last thing I need is Google as a government agent..
Hey, if Narus equipment is good enough to spy on American citizens, it's good enough to spy on Egyptians.
Narus. Ask for it by name when you don't give a fuck about your citizens.
If Narus are not allowed to export their technology, two things will probably happen. First the only people being spied on will be Americans, and 2, fewer tech companies will set up in the US and others such as Narus will try move off shore ( if they're allowed to ).
If you read it a certain way, it seems evil.
"there is now a push for stronger controls and monitoring for technology exports that would provide a national strategy to prevent the use of American technology from being used by human rights abusers" == "we don't want to sell technology that prevents American technology from being used by evil people" == "we want to sell technology that enables American technology to be used by evil people"
"deep packet inspection" == "American technology" == "technology that can provide a national strategy to prevent innocent people from using American technology" == "technology that enables American technology to be used by evil people"