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Microsoft To Work With Windows Phone 7 Jailbreakers
markass530 writes "Microsoft had a sit down with the first people to jailbreak their Windows Phone 7. Seems like good progress was made. This seems like a good approach to me. It would be great if Sony, Apple, Microsoft, and several Android phone makers would implement a simple development switch in their phones — these would obviously void the warranty, but it would give hackers the opportunity to actually own their devices without fear of having to jailbreak all over again whenever an update arrives."
Maybe Nokia has its hand on this? They've never been against locking the platform, you've always had a simple option to enable installing unsigned apps.
These manufacturers need to realize that there are people that don't want to hack their devices (like me) and people that insist on doing so. The people that don't care to will NEVER do it, and those that insist on doing it ALWAYS WILL.
The more rigid you are on something the more you hurt things for those that don't want to circumvent the system. Those that enjoy it will just enjoy doing it even more.
Suleiman meeting with the protesters ?
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Then we'll see how the hardware compares with other Android devices! My money is on it being a rather inferior experience with an even worse battery life than more current Android phones.
It would be great if Sony, Apple, Microsoft, and several Android phone makers would implement a simple development switch in their phones — these would obviously void the warranty [...]
Why?
Wake me up with they have the same attitude toward XBOX mods.
Why "obviously void the warranty"? This is silly - it's my device!
Like a general purpose computer, if the power supply breaks down during the warranty period, I expect it to be replaced under the warranty. Why are we treating smartphones differently? Worst case, fix it and put the factory software back on it. Then give it back to me working.
In the mobile OS market, they're the underdog, so they have to play nicer right now to get people to buy their shit. Once they achieve a position of dominance, that's when they start turning the thumbscrews on you.
Remember how they used to, aside from token efforts, turn a blind eye to rampant Windows piracy, particularly in Asia? Their stance in the 90s was, they'd rather you use their stuff, even if you stole it, than use a competitor's product. After they made some good headway, most PCs no longer came with a full Windows install disc that you could share with your buddies who could easily find install keys online-- you instead got crappy "restore" discs, locked to your computer model. And then when they finally reached the level of unquestionable dominance, you got product activation.
As a side note, when they're the underdog in a particular market, they also like to partner with someone already ahead of them in that market, steal what they can to gain an advantage, and then (in most cases) destroy the partner. Poor Nokia is dead, they just don't know it yet.
What laws where broken exactly? Breaches of contract does not make one a criminal.
a dev switch. $99 a year, and you can load programs on it without the marketplace. It's how you develop for it. Doesn't iPhone and Android do this?
Msoft is desperate to not totally fail in the phone market.
Msoft has just seen how kinect pc hack has created so much buzz.
Msoft Windows is reasonably open, at least more than ipod, or google chrome.
... phones had to go through some sort of compatibility test before being allowed on the network, to avoid hardware or software bugs in the phones bringing the network down (or clobber its performance or whatever).
How does that work when the punter is allowed to change the software in the phone then?
Palm (now HP, I guess) tells you how to enter "developer mode" for WebOS on their own website: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=1639#InstallingEclipsewiththeSDK-dev_mode Developer mode on a WebOS phone is the same as jailbreaking on iOS/Android: it allows you access to the file system, a command line if you want it, and the ability to install applications from any source. There is a LOT of homebrew development for the platform, and all of it is officially supported by Palm/HP. They even recently donated a server to a homebrew dev group.
That is exactly how webOS works,
http://palmwebos.org/2009/09/22/there-are-now-two-ways-to-enter-developer-mode-in-webos/
...er criminals...?
Why would a switch in software like that that void the Warranty? If you buy a PC, you can install any OS you like. The warranty that covers your PC is covering the hardware. If you buy a PC, have no clue what you are doing and end up trashing your windows installation, there is nothing your PC dealer's warranty will ever do for you. At least not for free. If the software is broken you reinstall it or get it serviced somewhere. If the hardware breaks down, you'll be heading up to your dealer for a warranty replacement. Why would a phone be that much different? I even find it ashaming and harsh to realize that most people really buy that crap of "warranty is only void if you do not touch the software", like there was any warranty on the software part at all. Imagine a PC dealership trying to enforce such harsh software usability limitations like "never ever install any other software than the one you got it with, or forget the warranty". Would that actually be possible selling stuff like that? Not here in Europe at least. Imagine a car dealership that denies you your warranty on the engine after a few weeks just because you changed the seat covers. Its nothing different. This entire "Other software voids your warranty" FUD is sparked by the providers and manufacturers that very much like to keep you trapped with them and their software, and sometimes even hold you, your device or your data hostage against yourself, pretty much neglecting the fact that you actually bought the device you are acting with, and still not wanting to give you any space to decide what you actually want to do with it. And the even worst part is, people accept it just like that. Today's Smartphones are more like small PCs than like the old brick phones that couldnt do much. Most of these newer handsets are technically able to run many different operating systems. One can customize the systems as well, far beyond the possibilities the vendor envisioned. It sometimes feels like your PC Vendor tries telling you that you cant put any background image on your windows desktop which you did not buy from him. If you however use your own images, or god beware, remove the logo of said Vendor from the starting screen of the OS that that would be a change that possibly damaged your hardware which in turn would be void then.. Think about it.
All they want to do is find out how its done and the mindset of the coders so the next release will be 'unbreakable'.
If you trust a mega corporation, you will get hosed.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Fixed the subject line for you.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Just type either webos20090606 or upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart and the developer mode switch pops up on the screen. They also paid airfare and hotel for one of the top homebrew developers to come to their last major developer conference. Oh and they just sent that team a brand new HP server with no strings attached.
go ahead buy a dell/hp/whatevs then install linux and call tech support with an issue. I am sure they will be helpful.
if you don't want them to break your shit, make it so they don't NEED to break your shit. I know this is Microsoft and all, but I have to give them kudos on this move.
Microsoft is smart. This is the same way they won the OS wars in the 90's. Apple developed a proprietary system and forced people to do it there way or no way, while Microsoft said "here is an OS that can make any system you develop better" and let people do as they wished. While Apple does allow for home brew software, it still has the same restriction as every app on the app store, unless you jailbreak of course
My Palm WebOS phone (pre) has a maybe 0.05% market share... but it has some really interesting features. Like the ability to root the phone in a supported fashion and the existence of a repair tool to fix it when you screw it up. I'm not impressed by MS sitting down with phone 7 users. Yeah, users. Sure, they're advanced users, but they're just using their phone. I can't believe "jailbreaking" is a problem, nor that it would ever void a warranty. I wish more manufacturers did it like Palm did.
Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
Then go to that Openmoko thing, why even comment here? :)
Personally I am enjoying my Android HTC Desire HD phone
This is the sig that says NI (again)
I remember reading about this last month. Way to stay on top of things.
>"It would be great if Sony, Apple, Microsoft, and several Android phone makers would implement a simple development switch in their phones "
Inotherwords, it would be great if they did what Palm/WebOS already did years ago. With WebOS Linux phones, you just enter a code (that everyone knows) and wham, you have root. Zero hacking required. Plus, I don't think it "voids the warranty". Why would it? It is just software. I can see where maybe the carrier and manufacturer wouldn't offer operational support for a so-called "rooted" phone, but that has nothing to do with the hardware warranty.
WebOS phones can be restored to factory-defaults easily by just downloading WebOS doctor from the carrier's site. No phone should ever be designed to be "brickable". There is absolutely no excuse for that.
Google should be listening to this.... if WebOS Linux can do it successfully, certainly Android Linux can do it too.
They mention it in the story but... there is a ton of information on hacking WinCE-based devices. There are tons of alternate WinCE images for HTC devices for example. To stop it now would be to lose basically every developer not selling a complete device not intended to have functionality added (i.e. GPS, or in-car entertainment. although those desperately need hacking most times)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Good, it seems that MS is trying to ear points with hackers... but hackers love an open source OS and Windows 7 mobile isn't.
Hah!
HP's webOS ships with a Linux-based OS and a simple, easy way to get root access on your device. In fact, they provide instructions on how to do so on their website.
And it doesn't even come close to voiding your warranty. Even if you put on custom software.
I cannot seem to find it in back posts but this is the 3rd time slash dot has "reported" on the same event.
Granted, this summery "article" is more retarded than the last 2, as this one suggests having a switch to get in developer mode, and also voiding the warranty for flicking said switch. If there is a switch to get into said mode i don't know of any legal system would accept that flicking said switch is terms for voiding of a contract. Also have you heard of a computer manufacturer voiding one's warranty for INSTALLING programs.
But i will say this, excluding this dumb-ass sacrificing our rights to a hardware protection, I do respect Microsoft stance for this, they essentially asked the hackers to take down their tool and in exchange Microsoft is gonna make a system to do what they want without having they Dev keys posted all over the web essentially making piracy a trivial matter for their phone, which in turn will alienate developers who want to sell products. If this method pans out everyone wins, we get home-brew, we get paid content, and they get a market that is still considered profitable.
Microsoft wanted to personally thank the three confirmed WP7 customers.
Why not have a free app store with no censorship and no dev fees for free apps? you can just ban apps that only mess up the os or maybe just list them as unsafe apps. But no banning for things like sex or let's say a IOS app review magazine. (apple banded a android app review one)
I'm enjoying my HTC Desire phone (although I wish multi touch wasn't so utterly broken on it - you should be glad you have a HD instead!)
The Federal Court System has ruled jailbreaking to be totally legal and not a violation of the DMCA. I think Microsoft might be wise to sit down with the hackers.
>Why not have a free app store with no censorship and no dev fees for free apps?
Because it effects the bottom line.
That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
This is the reason most people jailbreak their phones to begin with. Apple would definitely make a lot of users happy if they allowed unofficial app repositories. People wouldn't be rooting their phones and compromising security, but I would get those apps I want and are not available.
Jailbreaking should be a criminal offence. It is against the EULA of the product and you be enshrined in law. No, just because you have the tangible product in your possession does NOT mean you have any right to install anything on it you think you can. That is flawed thinking.
Who would've thought that MS would try to damage control the yesterday's PR disaster?
From the TFA:
> Much of the information from the talks is under NDA
This is the Wrong Way to build a community.
> Several websites were openly dedicated to spreading modified Windows Mobile ROMs, and Microsoft was okay with it.
No it wasn't. It demanded the XDA-Dev forums to take down all ROMs.
Get real. MS trashed homebrew on WM and will do so on WP7. WP7 is marketed as an "ad-serving machine" with an OS-level ad service; as soon as Geohot or somebody else will find a way to block it, the show will be over.
The OP never claimed that you could fix a board yourself, have the repair go sour, and then expect the company to fix that.
While not specifically saying so he did imply that "yourself" be lumped into a qualified person.
That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
Actually you can officially "jailbreak" your Windows Phone device for 100$ by signing to AppHub membership http://create.msdn.com/en-us/home/membership . Then you can run anything you want on this device and ironically you'll not lose warranty.
so you want to go jail for going to jiffy lube? as your Car EULA say you must go to the dealer? what if they said you can only go shell for gas and all the area shells cost more then other area gas stations?
Right, and I should be able to force WalMart to give away my free newspaper (that I support with ads).
If I tell WalMart to stock it in their store for nothing, they can't tell me "no", nor decide not to carry it because it contains things they don't want to carry, like sex or editorials for competing stores.
That sounds exactly like the sort of "rights" that America is so proud of, yes?
Or do you mean "everyone has rights, except private store owners that I do not like, if they want to exercise a right that results in a situation I disagree with then they should be stopped!"
Reminds me of Sarah Palin talking about the Islamic community centre being built in Manhattan - "I know they have a right to do it, but should they?"
I have a dev switch on my cr-48 netbook they put it under the battery under a sticker and you had to know it was there to find it. I think thats the way to go.
Are you kidding? Xbox 360 is the most open of the three major consoles. Unlike PLAYSTATION 3 and Wii, Xbox 360 officially allows individuals to develop video games using C# and the XNA library and sell them.
All Google Phones(the Nexus ones) have the option fastboot OEM unlock. Carriers and most manufacturers however don't want people to root their phone, and therefor disable it.
Sadly, by far the main reason why people jailbreak is to install pirate software. The Slashdot crowd that want to run a SSH server are a very small minority. Apple is protecting their own and their developers' revenue store. Making piracy hard has also allowed for software prices to come down. It also allows developers to spend their time working on features for their software and not on anti-piracy measures.
but WalMart is not the only store and you are not not locked into only shopping at walmart.
Irrelevant.
You are not forced to buy an iPhone - you can buy a Droid (where incidentally, Google has similar polices on its marketplace).
The fact that the App Store is the only store on the iPhone makes no difference to the rights of the people who own it.
Should the only store in a small town 100 miles from nowhere be forced to sell things it doesn't want to because it's the only store around?
It's completely irrelevant if the person performing repair work is qualified or not.
It is only relevant whether the actions taken by the person cause the failure that the company is being asked to repair.
For example, if my 8-year old changes the oil in my car, and then something goes wrong with my airbags, the car manufacturer MAY NOT deny the airbag warranty claim, even though the person changing the oil is clearly not qualified to do so.
In fact, even if the 8-year old who changes the oil re-fills the crankcase with Kool-Aid, it *still* does not void the warranty on the airbags.
In the US at least, this is black letter law.
Previous repairs, alterations, etc, are not grounds to dismiss warranty claims, unless the manufacturer is able to prove that these are the proximate cause of the failure that the claimant is asking the manufacturer to address.
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
Nokia's recent sepukku makes me sick to the core. Instead of continuing with the transition from Symbian to Meego, they gutted any sort of developer support for it by announcing the switch to WP7.
For all the ignorant naysayers who called Symbian 'obsolete', it was just that it doesn't have a pretty UI. Jailbreaking was an alien concept on Symbian and Nokia - you never needed to worry about root access or anything because your phone was truly yours to install whatever you want.Name a jailbreak requiring feature on its American rivals and Symbian has had it unrestricted for 5 years and counting.
And to get rid of all that in favor of a half assed WP7...what the hell were they smoking? Was Nokia on the verge of bankruptcy, with Symbian sales plummeting? No,it was making money and would've had a good year or two more in the rest of the world, and a Symbian-Meego ecosystem was coming up. Ovi Store had about 4 million downloads a day and rising, Qt based apps were starting to show up. All of that is killed now, no developer would want to touch Symbian/Qt/Meego with a bargepole after this announcement.
"..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
According to HP, their laptop warranty is voided if you reinstall windows (removing crapware, etc).
The Nexus line of Android phones has exactly the proposed official switch. ADB oem unlock and your phone is open and your warranty void.
If you understand why companies implement security layers to their devices, and why people circumvent them, you'll understand why this is an interesting move.
iOS has security layers for several reasons; protection of Copyrighted material stored on the device, lock-in of devices under contract to a specific service provider and protection of the users personal data from rogue Apps. Even registered developers have to work within these restrictions.
WM7 has security layers for all the same reasons as iOS.
Android has security layers for one reason: permit Vendors and Service Providers control over the User Experience.
iOS jailbreakers crack devices to; Use contracted devices with unauthorised service providers, Install custom Apps on their own device, Install rogue Apps on someone else's device.
I assume WM7 jailbreakers will have the same reasons.
Android Jailbreakers do what they do to keep their devices up-to-date (since Vendors have very little interest in keeping the OS current - Motorola) and to remove Crapware (Sprint Nascar anyone?)
Microsoft would be protecting their own interests by allowing potential WM7 jailbreakers to Install custom Apps. They don't want to see the bad press that appears whenever someone writes a worm that only affects jailbreaked devices.
Never thought I'd say this but compared to Apple, Microsoft looks like a beacon of light for freedom and understanding what their userbase really means to them.
Apple, on the other hand, say "You like the Beatles, remember to download the new albums from iTunes because we said you should. You like everything we tell you to like, OK?"
absolutely amazing! while windows XP was and is usable, Vista was a disaster on launch, and 7 an immediate favorite, their mobile platforms have always struggled. mobile 5 was utilitarian like XP and 6 was a failure on par with Vista is 7 as good as 7? While apple struggles to prevent us from running the aps we want on devices we OWN! windows is working with the hacker to provide the content people want and solve the security flaws that allow the unlocking. can we say brilliant on the part of MS (formerly the evil overlord)
there are 10 types of people in this world, those who read binary and those who don't. which are you!
Does this mean you can go to more websites that don't have any apps for Win Phone 7, instead of just the default set of websites that don't have any apps for Win Phone 7?
Cool.
Why? Having that sort of access to the software on most other computers doesn't void the (hardware) warranty, why should it on a smartphone?
there are no development fees
There are fees to get started with developing software on any platform. First of all, you need to buy a computer and the appropriate operating system to run the developer tools, even if you're not developing for that computer. Otherwise, define what you consider a "development fee".
if people are willing to settle for such a closed atmosphere on one computer, they must be willing to settle for it on all computers.
People who aren't geeks tend not to think of a smartphone or video game console as a "computer". They see it the way Apple or Microsoft markets it: as an app-liance that runs app-lications and complements a general-purpose computer instead of replacing it.
More Informations Making Your Phone Work Windows Phone 7
http://devicegadget.com/microsoft/making-phone-work-windows-phone-7/608/