Is Algeria Deleting Facebook Accounts?

belmolis writes "Algeria is reported to be shutting down ISPs and deleting Facebook accounts in an effort to prevent anti-government protests from escalating as they did in Egypt. Is it likely that they are deleting FB accounts? Unless Facebook is cooperating, this would either require hacking FB to obtain administrator privileges or cracking the password of each account they wish to delete."

Comments

Unencrypted cookie auths

[jroysdon]

The problem is that you may send your username and password over HTTPS, each page after that you send your auth cookie over plain ol' unencrypted HTTP. Someone is capturing those auth cookies and using them to send delete commands to Facebook (no doubt after capturing all of the info and friends).

Use HTTPS Everywhere and force all your traffic that can be to be using HTTPS.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[icebike]

That cookie is renegotiated after each https login, and it is specific to one session. You can't clone it from another station.
Even if you do manage to intercept it, Man in The Middle attacks are notoriously hard to execute, (you have to actually BE in the middle) especially for a bunch of thugs in jack boots.

Still, you can just look at press photos to see that the Algerian uprising will fail.
In a Muslim country, you can simply count the number of women in the photos. If its not at least 10 percent, the police will use all force necessary, and will ultimately crush the protest.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[iammani]

Auth cookies cannot help you delete accounts (or even change password) in well-designed site. The website prompts for the password to make sure its you.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you familiar with Firesheep? It'd be very easy to intercept sessions in a similar manner if someone isn't using SSL/HTTPS for everything.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[/dev/trash]

HTTPS Everywhere is great if you have 3 minutes for every minute to do something. I used it while on vacation and I was forced to use Barnes and Noble. Slow Slow slow slow.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

That cookie is renegotiated after each https login, and it is specific to one session. You can't clone it from another station.
Even if you do manage to intercept it, Man in The Middle attacks are notoriously hard to execute

Quick, someone tell these guys that hijacking FB sessions should be difficult.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's see -- you are in the government, facebook is outside your country, and it's _hard_ to ensure that all facebook connections get routed through your MitM box?

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Frosty Piss]

The problem is that you may send your username and password over HTTPS, each page after that you send your auth cookie over plain ol' unencrypted HTTP

No.

This is *NOT* the problem at all.

The problem is that ridiculously entrenched tin-pot dictators continue to believe that they can control to populous like they did in the pre-Internet days when all you had to do was shut down a few newspapers and "disappear" their enemies.

Sure, there's obviously a technical process going on, but the root of the problem has nothing at all to do with computers or networks, it has to do with a fundamental change in the dynamics of how populations are controlled by despots.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook requires HTTPS to access account settings. Nothing else to say.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[hishamaus]

But you still need a password to delete an account, this just gives you the ability to post and add friends etc

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Login over SSL, switch back to unencrypted, cookie is stolen, and cookie is then inserted into another connection which then switches to SSL to make changes. Unless Facebook requires you to re-authenticate to make setting changes, just being over SSL at that point does nothing.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[icebike]

Let's see -- you are in the government, facebook is outside your country, and it's _hard_ to ensure that all facebook connections get routed through your MitM box?

Well in some governments, that would be far more likely than anyone using firesheep. But other posters insist that you are still asked for your password over a SSL connection when deleting accounts.

I don't know about Algeria's internet structure, but something like this would be pretty hard to set up quickly if there were more than a few backbones. The traffic load would be enormous, you would have to filter every FB access and selectively delete the accounts, AFTER successfully pulling off your MitM.

I seriously doubt there is enough in-country expertise to do this on any grand scale. (I don't discount that France might be helping them).

In short, I suspect its far more likely they are simply blocking specific people, or routing certain internal IPs to a honeypot and some users are too dim witted to determine the difference, and obligingly key in their passwords.

I also don't discount the whole story is apocryphal.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[outsider007]

HTTPS isn't cool. You know what's cool? A billion dollars.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[jamesh]

Facebook requires HTTPS to access account settings. Nothing else to say.

Plenty more to say. As long as users go to 'facebook.com', and as long as the browser interprets that as "oh you mean http://facebook.com/" then all bets are off. Facebook may force the URL to account settings to https, but if there is a 'man in the middle', they connect to facebook via https for you, but rewrite all the url's you get sent as http, and most users won't notice.

You have to use https _everywhere_ or else you've given a MitM a chance to proxy your connection, and DNS spoofing is all that's required to do this.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[SlappyBastard]

Somehow I suspect that controlling the ISPs makes a man in the middle exploit a tiny bit easier.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[hishamaus]

that's just lame

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok... for those of us who don't use Facebook,.. IS it well designed?

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[epine]

HTTPS Everywhere is great if you have 3 minutes for every minute to do something. I used it while on vacation and I was forced to use Barnes and Noble.

The bar to resist dictatorship keeps going up. First you have to learn HTTPS Everywhere, then you have to learn tabbed browsing, cyclic tasking, and delayed gratification.

https should have become the default long ago. As it stands, I'm sure the Algerian santa is keeping a list. One shouldn't have to stand out by defending oneself against man-in-the-middle.

On the other hand, the portion of the rebel alliance with "allahakbar" as their FB password were unlikely to put up stiff resistance against sand-troopers with scimitars. Hmmm, I should watch my language.

From Three Kings:

Chief Elgin: I don't care if he's from Johannesburg. I don't want to hear "dune coon" or "sand nigger" from him or anybody else.
Conrad Vig: Captain uses those terms.
Sgt. Troy Barlow: That's not the point, Conrad. The point is that "towelhead" and "camel jockey" are perfectly good substitutes.

Barnes and Noble? Damn! That's rough.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[mr100percent]

"In a Muslim country, you can simply count the number of women in the photos. If its not at least 10 percent, the police will use all force necessary, and will ultimately crush the protest."

Um, have you noticed that these aren't particularly religious people who led the protests in Egypt and Tunisia? They're not even using Islamic words in their protests eg they're talking about the Watan and not the Ummah.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[sortius_nod]

Indeed, I mean, I didn't hijack my fiance's Facebook to show her how vulnerable it is the other day. She totally didn't freak out.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[icebike]

No clue what they are talking about.

But I notice a lot of signs in English, and a lot of women in the streets. The mere fact that women are allowed to participate without a brother or husband present is refreshing.

I'm not sure this means they are less religious. Maybe just differently religious.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[mallyn]

Is it as slow as asking the concierge in your hotel to go to the local Barns and Noble and get the book for you?

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[__aatirs3925]

So basically what you're saying is that the user goes to facebook but before the end up on facebook, the ISP creates a fake facebook page that resembles that of facebook and when the user enters their credentials the ISP logs it and submits it to facebook? I'm probably misunderstanding completely =/

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[jonwil]

No, what happens is that you go to facebook.com which resolves to a machine run by the ISP or government (due to DNS hijacking). This machine goes to the real facebook.com over https, retrieves the page and sends it to you as http. You log in on this page which sends your details to the fake ISP server who sends them on to Facebook.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think there's nothing more to say because Facebook requires HTTPS to *ONE* part of the site, then you sir, are the epitome of stupid. The encrypted account settings are not a Facebook user's default page. The default page (the standard news feed), and most other pages, are not at all encrypted, and cookies are passed on these connections just as well as on HTTPS.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[mr100percent]

People over and over again seem to fall for this mistake. Saudi Arabia is the only country that requires women to be escorted with a "mahram." No other Muslim country makes this claim that it's a requirement, and Muslims worldwide have condemned Saudi Arabia for being too chauvinist. Muslim scholars and shaykhs far and wide have said that Saudi is taking things way too far and that the Quran doesn't call for such things (and it doesn't if you read the text). The Muslim world at large has no desire to oppress women the way Saudi does; more women than men work in Morocco, for example, and Pakistan and Bangladesh had women Prime Ministers, and even Iran has more women in parliament than the US does in Congress.

If the protestors in Egypt were 100% Muslim only (and they weren't given than Egypt is 10-20% Christian), you'd still see women in the streets walking around uncovered. Cairo is the Hollywood of the middle east, home to a large music and film industry and even scantily dressed women.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Cairo is the Hollywood of the middle east, home to a large music and film industry and even scantily dressed women.

So you're saying that Egypt is one of the more liberal Muslim countries?

And still the Christians are persecuted / slain?

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[MattW]

I have no idea how fb works because it's an abomination and I avoid it as much as possible, but - having coded sites and auth schemes from scratch (after 5 years in network security), I can say: it's a poor site that allows an http:/// cookie to perform a delete when they use https:/// for a login.

Generally, if there's a need to have some high-security functions but some low security interactions, you take the login over https:/// then set TWO cookies; one of them with the "ssl-only" flag set; browsers will only send that when returning to the site over an SSL connection. Then you restrict certain types of page views (which would include modifying your account) to https:/// pages. (And I don't tend to look too closely, but I assume this is what other sites are doing when they are saying, "Welcome back Matt...", and then asking for me to confirm my password anyhow and sending me back to SSL for things like a password change.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[mr100percent]

Muslims inside Egypt and out condemned that attack. Fortunately, such attacks are few and far between. Look at the aftermath, when terrorists attacked a church around Christmas, thousands of Muslim Egyptians attended church services in Egyptian churches, in order to serve as human shields in case of another attack. They held candlelight vigils outside and put crosses on their facebook pages as well.

Let's look to the last 2 weeks. A photo has been spreading all over Twitter of Egyptian Christians making a human chain to protect Muslims from police attack as they were praying in Tahrir square on Friday. On Sunday, Egyptian Muslims returned the favor, protecting them while they had prayer services. This is a great moment for Muslim-Christian unity in Egypt.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Z00L00K]

It's no problem being in the middle if you control the network - like if you are a government.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Can we stop judging all Muslims by what one in a billion does? Yes, Bhutto got assassinated by someone whose motivations we still don't know. Was it a disgruntled PML-Q or PML-N member, or an MQM stooge, or was it an Al Qaeda grunt? The fact remains that over half of the country voted for her, that's a Muslim country of 130 million people. I'd say their opinion matters more than a lone terrorist. The US can't even elect a woman president yet, so maybe it shouldn't be one to judge.

And the Saudis go to Bahrain for partying because it's driving distance, unlike Egypt which you'd need to fly to visit.

As the above post was saying, can we judge Muslims by what their majority does, rather than its minority? (Saudi is less than 5% of the Muslim world, there are 2x as many Muslims in China)

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Firehed]

Most (if not all) of Facebook's account settings pages go over an HTTPS connection. I'd be astonished if there isn't one for auth that's secure-only, since it's effectively pointless if you're trusting cookies that could have been exposed over an http request for requests that require decent authentication.

Of course, Facebook is hardly known for its security. I turned on the HTTPS-everywhere setting the moment it was available on my account. I did spot a "c_user" secure-only cookie that contained only my user ID... god help us if that's what they authenticate against.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[awestruk]

This guy was NOT debating they evilness of dick-taters.

He was saying that it would be trivial for a government to do this on their own and therefore the line "Unless Facebook is cooperating, this would either require hacking FB to obtain administrator privileges or cracking the password of each account they wish to delete." is misleading because it suggests Facebook might have a hand in this. They don't; if the government wanted to do it, they would have done it on their own with ease.

Thanks for the red herring rant though : )

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

You win an Internet!

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, have you noticed that these aren't particularly religious people who led the protests in Egypt and Tunisia?

Um, have you noticed that his post had nothing to say about that? His point was that if you don't see women making up more than 10% of the protesters then it's going to get crushed. The bit about Muslim countries is simply because you can easily spot the women due to the restrictive dress codes required. While I don't necessarily agree that 10% is a magic number, it is true that any kind of uprising won't succeed unless it has general public support, and especially in countries where women are repressed you can gauge general support by how many women are involved in a public fashion.

And yes, in Egypt there is a very sizable number of women involved in those protests. And yes, the people who led the protests were indeed "particularly religious". But their Revolution is a People's Revolt, it's not a power move by the Theocrats, so you don't hear any religious rhetoric because that's not the point.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[GuruBuckaroo]

This entire thread, with one notable exception, is entirely, horribly uninformed. As the only other worthwhile poster points out, the Firesheep plugin proves that once you have the FB cookie (which can be sniffed via MITM attack or over Wifi), you can hop onto a Facebook session from any computer. Maybe not a shortcoming with the idea of login cookies, but certainly a shortcoming in Facebook's handling of them. Second, about two weeks ago FB started officially supporting an HTTPS-Always preference. There's a checkbox in Account, under Security, that forces all connections (and I do mean all, even connections to other subdomains) to use SSL. No plugin needed. As much as I enjoy Facebook, and correctly monitor both security settings AND what data I allow it to access, I'm really happy that Firesheep showed how piss-poor their security was. It gave the final push to my campaign to secure the "public" wifi hotspots our company offers to it's guests.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Maestro4k]

Algeria's probably taken a page from Tunisia, and is stealing logins like Tunisia did. That was just last month, I'm surprised people have forgotten about it already.

Facebook responded to Tunisia's attempts then, from the article:

Sullivan's team rapidly coded a two-step response to the problem. First, all Tunisian requests for Facebook were routed to an https server. The Https protocol encrypts the information you send across it, so it's not susceptible to the keylogging strategy employed by the Tunisian ISPs.

The second technical solution they implemented was a "roadblock" for anyone who had logged out and then back in during the time when the malicious code was running. Like Facebook's version of a "mother's maiden name" question to get access to your old password, it asks you to identify your friends in photos to complete an account login.

They rolled out the new solutions to 100% of Tunisia by Monday morning, five days after they'd realized what was happening. It wasn't a totally perfect solution. Most specifically, ISPs can force a downgrade of https to http, but Sullivan said that Facebook had not seen that happen.

I have no doubt that if they're seeing something similar they'll implement the same thing to block Algeria from continuing to do this.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[davester666]

There is of course the classic SSL in the middle attack where a company within the country that can sign certificates that are accepted by all browsers is asked to sign a certificate for Facebook, that just happens to point to a local server, which then forwards the traffic to the remote server.

That would make an excellent man in the middle attack.

Relatively hard for random individual or small group to do.
Relatively easy for a government. Particularly one willing to use guns to make it happen.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[icebike]

People over and over again seem to fall for this mistake. Saudi Arabia is the only country that requires women to be escorted with a "mahram." No other Muslim country makes this claim that it's a requirement,

That's nonsense, and you know it.

While the Taliban ruled Afghanistan mahram was the norm.
In many tribal zones in Pakistan this is still the norm.

But that's just one part of the problem. Shall we talk about Honor Killings? That practice is actually spreading, even to Canada and the US.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Zumbs]

... but it is not a law in Pakistan (or Afghanistan). By your own admission it is only happening in remote areas in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Your assertion amounts to stating that the Amish does not like technology, the Amish are Christians, so is is nonsense saying that Christian countries are technologically advanced.

Shall we talk about Honor Killings [typepad.com]?

So, when you see that your position is weak, you change try to change the topic?

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

I've scanned your past comments:

• example

• example

and you paint a very rosy picture of Muslim countries. I must respectfully disagree with the picture you paint.
Coptic Orthodox Christians in moderate-Egypt are still prevented from building new churches.

There is nothing I can say to sway you. There is nothing you can say to sway me.
(My family was one of the thousands of Christian families that fled Egypt when Nasser came into power in the 1950's, leaving behind property and possessions.)

However your past comments show that you are very level-headed.
And if you truly have a live-and-let-live attitude, then I wish there were more people like you.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[mr100percent]

Well you should be optimistic. Mubarak the dictator is out, and democracy looks like it will be slowly coming in. The dictatorship was what was preventing the new churches.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[icebike]

My position isn't weak, yours is delusional, and the Amish have nothing to do with the topic under discussion. You can walk away from being Amish. You won't be hauled into court by the state and put on trial for your life simply because you changed your beliefs.

You don't want to discuss honor killings I see. Is that because your position is destroyed by their very existence?

These are all facets of the same problem. Egypt is far more advanced in the the area of women's rights than most countries in the region, but even there they have a long way to go.

 

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[mr100percent]

Individuals in those places may be doing it but its certainly not a requirement nor the law. The Taliban are not considered legitimate by a wide swath of the Muslim world and were overthrown by the Northern Alliance, a group that also calls itself Muslim and doesn't practice that requirement. Is it that hard for people to grasp that the super majority of 1.5 Billion Muslims don't do that sort of stuff? Whenever a country like Algeria comes up, someone always brings up the false stereotypes about Muslims. Do you think Algerians wear burqas? No, so how is this relevant?

Honor killings are not Islamic, they are pre-Islamic and are also practiced among non-Muslims such as the Druze, Maronites, and other religions of the area. Muslim leaders have condemned the practice as explicitly opposite of Islam. If you're going to buy the right-wing lie that honor killings are spreading, Who in America is calling for honor killings? Not a single Muslim leader or scholar. The one time it supposedly happened, the local Muslim community loudly condemned it. And how are you getting so off-topic?

Muslims, just like Christians, are a very diverse bunch of billions of people. They're diverse enough that they speak different languages, dress differently, are multiple races, have different cultures, and have different interpretations of religion. A Saudi woman will probably not shake your hand if you're a man, but a Turkish woman would probably kiss you as a greeting. In Saudi, women are banned from driving, but 4 of the top 5 largest Muslim countries have elected women prime ministers to rule over men (and yes they can drive).

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Though I imagine facebook asks for the password when deleting the account so this may be still impossible with just the cookie.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Zumbs]

Now you are doing it again: Looking at a small, remote group and asserting that their actions are general for more than 1 billion people. With no evidence what so ever.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[webbiedave]

Exactly right. They cookie has to go through them each time.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is that ridiculously entrenched tin-pot dictators continue to believe that they can control to populous like they did in the pre-Internet days when all you had to do was shut down a few newspapers and "disappear" their enemies.

That's fair and dandy, but so far, I'm not really seeing any evidence that this belief isn't true. Sure, it ended up not working out in Egypt in the end. But a sample size of 1 is hardly representative, and people overthrew dictators every now and then before the advent of the Internet, too. Of course it's a tool, and a useful one, but it's hardly a panacea.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Brian Blessed]

The problem is that ridiculously entrenched tin-pot dictators continue to believe that they can control to populous like they did in the pre-Internet days when all you had to do was shut down a few newspapers and "disappear" their enemies.

Enemies like Julian Assange? Despite not yet managing to disappear him, the US has had some success in controlling the bulk of the population to view him as an evil figure.

- Brian.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

"Shall we talk about Honor Killings [typepad.com]?"

Like in Catholic Italy, Sardinia, Corsica, Sicily?

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[joaosantos]

Well, to their defence they recently decided to allow the users to use only https.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[ultranova]

Now you are doing it again: Looking at a small, remote group and asserting that their actions are general for more than 1 billion people. With no evidence what so ever.

Egypt is not remote by any stretch of imagination. And the article linked to is evidence. Not proof, of course, but evidence.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes - and for that fundamental change to occur, we need to figure out the technical process for using these computers and networks such that they can't be shut down like pre-Internet newspapers. Hence the grandparent post.

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[mr_lizard13]

Both of you are correct.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the HTTPS tip about FaceBook security settings.

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[chimpo13]

I've had these arguments with friends but once people have decided Islam is to blame, it's hard changing minds. Right wing/lefties it doesn't matter. It's not science where you can give a composing argument for most people.

I'm in Saudi now. Foreigners get it different but I still don't try to talk to women. They can get in trouble by talking to single men of any religion. Oh, and the veils here pre-date Islam. Still it's a crazy culture and I'm glad I didn't grow up in it.

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[AGMW]

...The Taliban are not considered legitimate by a wide swath of the Muslim world ...

I do wish more Muslims would stand up and be counted when it comes to Muslim extremists, be they Taliban or whatever. If it was my religion being desecrated in such a fashion I'd be screaming from the rooftops for them to stop committing such atrocities in the name of Islam!

Of course, maybe there are such people shouting and the press doesn't give it air-time. The press/media may have their own agenda!

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[brunes69]

Do you think the majority of facebook users know about this hidden option? It should be enabled BY DEFAULT, just like Google does with GMail.

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[Antique Geekmeister]

It doesn't have to be "law", if it's enforced by custom. The observation is relevant: if women are not physically there as part of protest movements, it's a sign that they are either kept out of public events, or that it's only the men who are interested in the issue. Such movements are very likely to be controllable by police or military force, and will be so controlled by governments with any power left.

_Failed_ revolutions are a dime a dozen. _Successful_ revolutions, or changes of regime imposed from outside, require popular support.

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[FatherDale]

Thanks for this link. Why isn't this a default setting?

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[icebraining]

Does Algeria have a CA trusted by the browsers?

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[commodore6502]

>>>one in a billion does?

If only it were that simple. If we compile ALL the hate crimes, we could easily come-up with a million Muslims that participated those acts, and another quarter-billion that think it was the right thing to do.

Clearly this is a problem with the Qor'an. (BTW christians aren't any better. When they say "Kill women who abort babiers" they arte taking that directly out of tnat sick, sick,sm cik book known as the Bible.)

Religion sucks. Rekligion spreads HARTE not love.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Smallpond]

The problem is that you may send your username and password over HTTPS, each page after that you send your auth cookie over plain ol' unencrypted HTTP. Someone is capturing those auth cookies and using them to send delete commands to Facebook (no doubt after capturing all of the info and friends).

Use HTTPS Everywhere and force all your traffic that can be to be using HTTPS.

Why assume a sophisticated technical solution when the more likely explanation is the $5 wrench?

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

noncing is normally how to prevent replay attacks !
cant believe that FB dont use this very simple technique

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

You're completely retarded.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Zumbs]

The article is on honour killings, not on requirements of women having to be accompanied by men, which is the topic of this discussion. To recap (for newcomers), mr100percent noted that the vast majority of Muslim countries neither condone nor practice that women must be accompanied by a man when leaving their homes, noting that "Muslims worldwide" condemn Saudi Arabia on that practice. Icebike replied that that is nonsense because women in parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan has to live under this rule. I replied to icebike that you can't look at a small, remote group and generalize their actions to a much larger group (living under much more modern conditions). Icebike did not agree, but did not argue for that position. Instead, icebike used a common retorical trick, and tried to change the topic into honour killings, which all of us find horribly wrong.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[TheRaven64]

I grew up in the UK in the '80s, when there were periodic bombs going off as a result of Irish terrorist activity. There were two loose groups, one claimed to be Catholic, the other claimed to be Protestant. I don't recall Christians in America condemning these terrorists for desecrating their religion. In fact, I remember the head of the IRA going on fundraising tours of the USA and coming back with a lot of money to buy guns and bombs to kill civilians with.

There have been a lot fewer deaths from terrorism in the UK in the last decade than for a very long time before. Apparently something happened around the turn of the century that made people in New York less keen on funding terrorists...

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[Velex]

It's a macho thing. I've seen this with Christians as well. People who believe they're being persecuted tend to want to take up the most extreme, literal position possible.

*sigh* I'm sure I'm going to get modded troll for the next part.

The other problem is that in order to take the position you're taking, you have to ignore wide swaths of religious law. I haven't given the Quaran a read-through yet, but there's a lot of things Christians are supposed to do that they don't. For example, women aren't supposed to allowed outside of their rooms during their periods. There's a lot more scripture that says when women need to be confined, beaten, stoned, etc than any scripture that says that homosexuality is bad. But, filthy, nasty homosexual men make an easier target than pretty, sexy women.

Cheers

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

People over and over again seem to fall for this mistake. Saudi Arabia is the only country that requires women to be escorted with a "mahram." No other Muslim country makes this claim that it's a requirement, and Muslims worldwide have condemned Saudi Arabia for being too chauvinist.

The Taliban in Afghanistan also require it, of course. At any rate, they may be the only countries where it's enforced by actual police, however in many Muslim countries the rural areas have different standards from the cities. Go a ways out of Baghdad into some remote villages and women aren't seen walking by themselves.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[davester666]

Well, they have a population of over 30 million people, so it seems relatively likely that they would at least have one company that sign certificates that are accepted by the popular browsers.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

So do you hand out the password to all your guests? Do you check that your guests aren't evil first?

An unsecured public wifi and a secured public wifi where you freely give away the password are functionally equivalent - it's like the whole hoopla over "all public wifi should have WPA2 password 'free'" (or 'freefree' if you are aware of the minimum password length). It sounds like a good idea, but doesn't really work in practice.

Of course there are better ways of securing public wifi such that the link is functionally (not nominally) encrypted, but what it comes down to is that the 'better' security is still endpoint-to-endpoint encryption (SSL/TLS). And I suspect you are using one of the better ways given the rest of your comment; however, I didn't want to miss an opportunity to point out the folly of 'secure with the password on posters' type of security :) .

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Toze]

especially for a bunch of thugs in jack boots.

I hate to tell you this, but being evil doesn't make people stupid or inefficient. The Nazis managed to build ingenious radar targeting systems for bombers, they developed their own jet fighters, and they did horrific but informative medical experiments on innocent people. "Thugs in jack boots" are perfectly capable of using or creating technologies to use for evil.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Nazis weren't Arabs

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[mapkinase]

And that is why Egyptian and Tunisian revolutions failed for 19 days in a row.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[HomelessInLaJolla]

Perhaps there's a generation gap here. My concept of a well designed site is one which allows you to delete your account at will, no questions asked, without need for administrator approval.

Accounts should be considered like filing cabinet maintenance. The users are able to go in and delete their accounts and the administrator or system operator should have a policy about deleting accounts after periods of no activity or if the administrator suspects abuse. Obviously such a policy would be susceptible to social engineering exploits. I have no idea what a real world working solution would be.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[mapkinase]

Apparently you missed the moment when three Fridays in a row Tahrir square turned into a one of the largest Masaajid's in the world.

Check out last Friday with the internationally famous Qari Jibreel leading Salaah:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk-PKovjKzY

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[h00manist]

Yes, a man in the middle is doable. But as there are no confirmations of these deleted accounts or exactly what happens, I would think it is more likely that "facebook account deleted", after translation from facebook-newbie-user-speak, and from languages tranlations, could mean a variety of things. Like "Access temporarily restricted due to unlicenced content". I work in a cybercafe with these users every day... have heard descriptions of the simplest things that practically require an detective work to figure out what on earth they were talking about. For example, on numerous cases people have told they read their email every day, and can access it anytime. They mean their Orkut messages. They don't know what is e-mail and have never used it.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[h00manist]

"In a Muslim country, you can simply count the number of women in the photos. If its not at least 10 percent, the police will use all force necessary, and will ultimately crush the protest."

Um, have you noticed that these aren't particularly religious people who led the protests in Egypt and Tunisia? They're not even using Islamic words in their protests eg they're talking about the Watan and not the Ummah.

Had some Arabic friends, learned some things. Islamic culture has pros and cons like everything else. They require good manners, dignity and respect in general. Western people don't normally know this, the media/military focuses on negative aspects. So this comment on women appears actually well informed. In general, as a culture, they treat women with more respect, protecting them. Yes, there are well known cases with that turns upside down too. In general, I think political opinion and participation is generally perfectly acceptable for women, even in official voting isn't. I think indeed if many women or older people are in a crowd with protesters, police simply cannot use too much force and risk hurting them, as they will be punished for it even by their own friends and families.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[mywhitewolf]

your kidding right? Egypt have overthrown a dictator with only 180 people killed. i wonder how many people died when America overthrew Saddam?

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[mapkinase]

"your kidding right? " Guess.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[tehcyder]

Honour killings have nothing to do with Islam, they're a result of backward rural cultural practices.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[tehcyder]

Nazis weren't Arabs

And racists will always reveal their own stupidity sooner or later.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Frosty Piss]

You're a moron. Do *you* like to rape woman like Assenge?

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a moron. Do *you* like to rape woman like Assenge?

Assange isnt a woman.

Re:Unencrypted cookie auths

[Anonymous Coward]

You're using faulty logic there. You admitted that you haven't really read the Quran, but since the Bible says those things you're assuming Muslims are no different. Actually the Quran is far more progressive on many issues, you don't have to ignore it to get a lot of what you want.

Users

[Anonymous Coward]

It would also require that 'users' have delete priviliges regarding their own account.

Re:Users

[Aerynvala]

LMAO and me without Mod Points

Re:Users

[msauve]

You say that as if Facebook is the poster child ("think of the children") for security.

Re:Users

[guttentag]

To clarify for anyone who doesn't get the joke, you can't "delete" a facebook account. You can "disable" your account, but facebook still keeps all your data forever. So centuries from now archaeologists can dig up their data center, excavate the hard drive platters and find out who was friends with who and what kind of music they liked. If only we could see Moses's facebook tablet... we'd know so much more about ancient Egypt! Then again, if Pharaoh had seen Jochebed's facebook tablet, he would have seen an entry like this and history would have unfolded very differently:

Put my baby in a basket and floated him down the Nile to escape Pharaoh's decree. Miriam says she saw Pharaoh's daughter pick him up and call him her own. I miss him already!
6,382 people like this

My first thought when I saw this story's headline was, "Who in Algeria can I contact to get my facebook account deleted? Better yet, could take this technology and turn it into a business, with people paying me to delete their accounts?"

Re:Users

[hashp]

To clarify for anyone who doesn't get the joke, you can't "delete" a facebook account. You can "disable" your account, but facebook still keeps all your data forever.

"You can check out any time but you can never leave". But I thought I did see an option to permanently delete your account in there somewhere. Didn't try it though.

Re:Users

[hashp]

https://www.facebook.com/help/contact.php?show_form=delete_account

Delete My Account

If you do not think you will use Facebook again and would like your account deleted, we can take care of this for you. Keep in mind that you will not be able to reactivate your account or retrieve any of the content or information you have added. If you would like your account deleted, then click "Submit."

Re:Users

[Anonymous Coward]

It would also require that 'users' have delete priviliges regarding their own account.

Tari ma ne chodu

Re:Users

[yotto]

I did that about 6 months ago. I just checked and my account is still there. In fact, it got reactivated so now I have to "delete" it again.

Re:Users

[The Good Reverend]

Well, then obviously you did plan on using it again. Maybe FB is just psychic...

Re:Users

[Xacid]

Yes, yes you can.

Here: http://www.facebook.com/help/contact.php?show_form=delete_account

Re:Users

[Anonymous Coward]

you can delete your account.

however its pretty hidden in there and no real guarantee that facebook doesn't keep some data.

it also requires you to stay of the site for 14 days (accidentally doing anything related to facebook can reactivate your account during that period, think sites that use facebooklogin and you ever logged in on.)

Algeria Internet NOT shut down (yet)

[mbone]

The consensus in the networking community is that the Internet to / from Algeria has not been shut down. See the Renesys blog for more details.

The situation with regards to social media is more uncertain, with reports of both blockage and routine service.

Re:Algeria Internet NOT shut down (yet)

[pgn674]

Yeah, I saw that too. So, if this Telegraph article's summary text "Internet providers were shut down ... across Algeria" is shown to be completely incorrect, then the accuracy of the of text in the summary, "Facebook accounts deleted across Algeria," can be taken into question, assuming both statements were investigated the same amount by the summary writer.

Impossible?

[Shuntros]

I thought it was impossible to actually delete a Facebook account? Sure, you can deactivate it, but not delete as far as I can remember.

Re:Impossible?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can. E-mail to their customer support and ask them to permanently delete the account and they will happily(?) do so.

Re:Impossible?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's possible, but it's fairly well hidden.

Once you opt to delete your account, you have to stay signed out for 14 days for the deletion to be final. Otherwise, the delete request is cancelled.

Re:Impossible?

[Anonymous Coward]

It has been possible to delete Facebook accounts for some time now.

Re:Impossible?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would recommend that you try http://www.wikihow.com/Permanently-Delete-a-Facebook-Account in that case.

Re:Impossible?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can, you just have to search for the link, because it's not in the options, and then wait two weeks for it to get deleted.

Re:Impossible?

[Xacid]

Here: http://www.facebook.com/help/contact.php?show_form=delete_account

Re:Impossible?

[takowl]

There is a form that tells them to really delete it. They don't draw attention to it, and it's separate from the "deactivate account" option, but a search in the help centre does bring it up.

Re:Impossible?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, I used one of those "search" "engines", and it seems like someone set up a Facebook group explaining how. Strangely enough, there are lots of people posting on that group reporting success.

Summarized instructions: you fill out the form here here, and then the big secret is that you don't touch facebook at all for 14 days.

No one has actually confirmed that the data isn't still in FB's servers, of course.

No password encryption

[neo00]

Last time I checked, by default login credentials are sent without encryption over http. Stealing the password is very easy in this case. Everyone should make sure to use https instead. There's an option in the user account to enable https all the time.

Re:No password encryption

[blincoln]

HTTPS doesn't do much good if the country in question implements transparent proxies at the borders of their national network infrastructure that decrypt SSL traffic, inspect the contents, then re-encrypt it with an SSL certificate issued by one of the authorities registered for that country (which is certainly within the realm of possibility for most governments). Have you ever looked at (let alone modified) the list of SSL authorities that your web browser trusts by default?

Re:No password encryption

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

https://www.eff.org/observatory

The punchline: Unless you are using an atypically paranoid browser config, there are a Lot of CAs and subordinate CAs(some of them known-slimy, others known-incompetent), whose certs your browser will silently trust.

What would be nice would be a mechanism for tracking the cert-chain of websites of interest over time and from various endpoints on the internet. Companies do, legitimately, get tired of getting shafted by Verisign, er, um. switch certificate providers; but sudden shifts, not corresponding with certificate expirations, or shifts visible only from a subset of IPs would raise a red flag...

Re:No password encryption

[icebike]

A pretty wide range of Algerian providers (Telecom Algeria, Wataniya Telecom Algeria, SPA Anwarnet, Smart Link, Orascom/Djezzy, etc.) have direct international connectivity, as seen in the BGP routing table. See here.

That makes it pretty hard for a tin-horn dictator to proxy all of these. (Algeria is not known as a great source of networking expertise).

I suspect it would be much easier to put up a dummy facebook server (honypot) and simply have it deny all log in attempts. A few dns entries at each ISP suckers in a lot of people.

Re:No password encryption

[Anonymous Coward]

Certificate Patrol - http://patrol.psyced.org/

Re:No password encryption

[emt377]

HTTPS doesn't do much good if the country in question implements transparent proxies at the borders of their national network infrastructure that decrypt SSL traffic, inspect the contents, then re-encrypt it with an SSL certificate issued by one of the authorities registered for that country (which is certainly within the realm of possibility for most governments). Have you ever looked at (let alone modified) the list of SSL authorities that your web browser trusts by default?

When I was in Vietnam recently, which blocks Facebook, they operated by intercepting DNS. They'd either make lookups fail or make them resolve to their own proxy. Before we realized this my wife uploaded a bunch of photos which then mysteriously disappeared overnight. We got around this by me firing up squid on my linode and using this as our web proxy, by IP address. (Authenticated obviously.) This way names are resolved in the good ole USA, geolocation says we're there (so get stuff in English), etc - AND the local government doesn't get to stick its grimy paws in my DNS lookups. To stops us they'd have to identify me personally, and spend resources on a single individual - and given we were foreign tourists they probably couldn't care less. After all, we'd leave in a few weeks and then we'd still post and say all the same things regardless. If we were locals we'd probably get on a watch list... They DID spend extra time on my exit processing at the airport, where the official wandered off with my passport and was gone 5-10 min.

Re:No password encryption

[emt377]

The punchline: Unless you are using an atypically paranoid browser config, there are a Lot of CAs and subordinate CAs(some of them known-slimy, others known-incompetent), whose certs your browser will silently trust.

Yeah, this just illustrates how worthless web certs are. Any government with a CA within its borders can get a cert to impersonate anyone or anything. So can any criminal organization in the same country as long as their government is sufficiently corrupt. The way it SHOULD work is that another party proves knowledge of a secret I gave them when I registered, so I can know when I contact them that it's the same organization I registered with and not an impostor. Plaintext can be avoided without certs; just a plain diffie-hellman handshake and a stream cipher works as well for that. (And in fact is how SSL works, other than the cert exchange. So just remove the latter.) But of course, then we wouldn't need an entire industry built around selling certs. We'd just need a few simple protocol changes...

Re:No password encryption

[devman]

Except you have no way to know you who you were talking to you when you registered in the situation you described above. I think CA's and SSL is fine, but I think the browser should flag EVERY cert the first time you've seen that particular fingerprint, so that the motived among us could scrutinize the CA chain every time it changes.

Re:No password encryption

[dmomo]

Firebug says different. I hit http://www.facebook.com/ and see a post only to "https://" for the actual login.

Re:No password encryption

[blackest_k]

Algeria is not known as a great source of networking expertise

I really think you should think about what you are implying here, because logically for algeria to have internet connectivity at all there has to be some competent network engineers working there.

Googling Population of Algeria reveals a population of 34,895,470 roughly half that of the UK and huge compared to my countries 4 million (Ireland).

Just how much networking expertise is needed?

I'm pretty sure Algeria will have it's own share of educated, highly intelligent Engineers. In fact when you reeled off a list of ISP's you revealed where some of the talent will be found. It's pretty unthinkable that there is no government control of ISP's in Algeria.

Re:No password encryption

[icebike]

I'm sure there are competent people there. If nothing else, the companies hired to manage their networks would recruit them from anywhere. The government employees are more likely to be cronies of the powers that be than they are to be competent.

The point is, they are unlikely to have an excess of them hanging around against the day when the government decides to filter every facebook posting, and set up a man in the middle attack on each one. It takes a lot of people and a lot of coordination to start such a process across half a dozen of ISPs.

Its far easier to just force the ISPs to route facebook.com traffic to a honeypot, because all you really need is an entry in your in-country DNS servers. Since the honeypot does nothing but server fake pages, the users think their account is deleted.

Re:No password encryption

[blackest_k]

i remember the controversial album cover on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Killer

In December 2008, the image again gave rise to controversy when the British Internet Watch Foundation placed certain pages from Wikipedia on its internet blacklist, since it considered the image to be "potentially illegal" under the Protection of Children Act 1978.[3] This resulted in much of the UK being prevented from editing Wikipedia, and significant public debate of the decision. The decision was reversed by the IWF after four days of blocking.[4]

That was easy enough to do in the UK, i would think most places have some kind of blocking in place. Even if its just to try and stop access to pedographic (maybe not a word but it could be) porn.

A third option...

[Dhalka226]

Facebook must be cooperating or they're hacking each individual account? I think you're missing a third option.

Re:A third option...

[Confusador]

No, I think that's covered under 'Facebook's cooperating'. Not that I think that it would take a lot to convince them to give up, that's basically their business model, but 'do this or we won't let you accept payments in our country' is basically all the rubber hose you need.

HTTPS

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook really needs to just force all content to go over HTTPS. Using unencrypted HTTP is just asking for trouble.

Sounds like a great way to...

[physicsphairy]

1) Alert people their communication is insecure
2) Let them know the government is concerned about their ability to organize
3) Piss them off

All without actually causing them much inconvenience. Last I checked, Facebook made it easy to restore an account, and even if they've changed that, Facebook almost certainly has retained the data and made it clear in Tunisia they were willing to fix the problem for those affected by sabotage.

Re:Sounds like a great way to...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I can only assume that the Algerian government is minimally concerned with the fact that Facebook can restore profiles from the bowels of their titanic data mines and maximally concerned with disrupting efficient organization among dissidents and potential dissidents.

The jackboots start at a numerical disadvantage; but they start organized and comparatively well equipped. The dissidents enjoy potential numerical superiority and a PR advantage; but they start poorly organized and only partially mobilized.

If communication is functioning at or above a certain level of efficiency(and people are, in fact, just that pissed off) the dissidents will make up the lost ground in organization and mobilization and move a serious volume of newsworthy photos and such. If, however, communication is disrupted beyond a certain point, odds are that the jackboots will be able to contain the ill-organized initial activity, "disappear" a few of the key figures as the situation permits, and retard the recruitment of potential dissidents into an active revolt.

Re:Sounds like a great way to...

[jack2000]

You see that's the problem, "key figures " should be avoided at all costs. The populace needs to be thought about decentralized revolt.
Applying network experience to sociological problems ftw.

HTTP Authentification is what most people use

[aysa]

There is absolute no technical challenge in hacking those accounts.

If it's even slightly true, Algeria is "next".

[Anonymous Coward]

Dunno anything about facebook - who really gives a shit anyway, right? - but if Algeria really is trying to mess with its people's Internet activities, it all but guarantees they are the next regime to face the revolutionary wrath. So to speak.

It's the Streisand Effect to the nth degree.

Re:If it's even slightly true, Algeria is "next".

[countertrolling]

...but if Algeria really is trying to mess with its people's Internet activities, it all but guarantees they are the next regime to face the revolutionary wrath. So to speak....

Ol' Comcast better watch out next time they start throttling my torrents..

Elections

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't Algeria already have open elections?

Re:Elections

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

They do have elections, though I'm not sure how hiqh-quality they are thought to be. The fact that said democracy has been continually operating under emergency powers since the end of the Algerian Civil War probably doesn't make people entirely cheerful.

Ultimately, though, I suspect that they are hitting the same demographic/economic crunch that has caused trouble for other states recently: Fairly high unemployment(particularly among the large portion of the population that is fairly young), rising costs of staple commodities, and the perception(generally accurate) that the state is corrupt and exploitative in favor of some well-connected elite. Even in well-functioning democracies, that demographic circumstance will produce substantial volatility. If the state is having any legitimacy issues: boom. (On the other side of the coin, as our dear friend Putin can attest, if you preside over a period of improved wellbeing for the population, people will eagerly forgive egregious corruption and repression...)

Hacking individual Facebook accounts won't work

[dido]

Given how Facebook's infamously buried 'delete my account' feature works, hacking individual accounts won't in general be sufficient to delete them. Well, with access to the account they could change the password to a random one to prevent the legitimate owner from logging in and preventing the deletion, but the account simply appears deactivated to others until that happens. Facebook cookies on the owner's computer could also conceivably cause any efforts at account deletion to be frustrated. If they "deactivate" peoples' accounts the legitimate owner still gets Facebook spam and invitations from friends so unless every account in the victim's network is also similarly compromised that only causes Facebook's power as an organizing tool to diminish only slightly. The article has almost no detail on what 'deleting Facebook accounts' means, so it's hard to say exactly what this entails.

If Algeria can really make people's accounts disappear from Facebook completely, then either Facebook is helping them do so or they've hacked into Facebook. Hacking individual accounts won't cut it.

Re:Hacking individual Facebook accounts won't work

[Anonymous Coward]

yep, and if within 14 days anybody tries as much as accessing the account it stops the deleting procedure.

funny thing, after deleting my real facebook account i made a troll one, just to play some games with a friend and still have a highscore between us.

for some reason it got banned, but hey, getting banned seems to be way faster then deleting your account yourself.

Probably "brute forcing" the facebook accounts

[DustoneGT]

Algerian .gov is probably just hitting them with wrenches until they give up the passwords.

Re:Probably "brute forcing" the facebook accounts

[Troll-Under-D'Bridge]

I don't know whether to mod you funny or insightful. I just hope these "brute force" attacks aren't true, and that worst thing the authorities there are doing is short-term detention (which is not to say that's the right thing to do with unarmed protesters).

Re:Probably "brute forcing" the facebook accounts

[Anonymous Coward]

nah, they're probably trying something more sophisticated like sleep deprivation and having some agent screaming like crazy next door pretending she or he is being tortured. remember these are kids who break easy, not some hardened islamic fundie who believes god will pay them back with 40 virgins when they go byebye this world.

ps the world "ruthless" is my capcha

Re:Probably "brute forcing" the facebook accounts

[jmcvetta]

God I'm sick of that cartoon.

Yes, it's fucking obvious that a government can send thugs to beat the crap out of a person until he divulges a password. However, this is expensive (wrench wielding henchman isn't exactly a career that makes mama proud, so you need to pay them a lot); intrusive (you need to bust into someone's house to do it, and you might just get shot in the process); and likely to provoke violent backlash from the beaten person's family & friends. Probably works great under normal conditions, when there are just a handful of activists to crush. In revolutionary times there are tens of thousands of dissidents active at the same time, and government simply doesn't have enough thugs to go wrench them all.

Re:Probably "brute forcing" the facebook accounts

[DustoneGT]

True, and the more people they wrench, the more the resistance multiplies as people see the authoritarian government for what it really is.

Re:Probably "brute forcing" the facebook accounts

[Opportunist]

Wasn't it 72 virgins?

OMFG, the recession hit the afterlife now!

Re:Probably "brute forcing" the facebook accounts

[Opportunist]

Nah, wrench wenches are pretty cheap. I mean, look at McD, burger flipper ain't really the career choice that makes your parents show around pictures of you in the workplace either, but I didn't see a shortage of flippers yet.

That's the beauty of today's work, everyone can find a place he belongs to. Some work with their brain, some with their brawn, but everyone is equally valuable. Or so they said in the PC classes I had to take.

Maybe Algerian's are smarter than the rest?

[EricX2]

They know that Facebook is on the down hill of popularity and want their info gone before it is purchased by a big American corporation like Kraft, Ford, or the Democratic Party.

Belonggz

[hishamaus]

ALL Your Face Are Belong To Us!

Not deleting accounts, but hijacking groups

[ub3r n3u7r4l1st]

The Mossad did that with many pro-Palestinian groups on facebook.

Re:Not deleting accounts, but hijacking groups

[belmolis]

What's the evidence for this?

Re:Not deleting accounts, but hijacking groups

[Anonymous Coward]

It wasn't Mossad. It was thousands of middle class Americans who have been brought up identifying with Israel in quasi-ethnic terms, who've never seriously studied the issues involved, and who have all day to troll since high school is a fucking joke.

It is difficult, but they can be reasoned with. Poignantly absent from the rest of American culture, a kind of respect for reason is part of Jewish culture.

Re:Not deleting accounts, but hijacking groups

[Anonymous Coward]

None, ub3r dumbass is just your standard below average intelligence anti-semite... not worth the oxygen it consumes.

Re:Not deleting accounts, but hijacking groups

[G3ckoG33k]

How do you hijack a group?

Re:Not deleting accounts, but hijacking groups

[Anonymous Coward]

Easy really. Either sign up, post a few good comments and be made an admin, then use your admin powers to delete posts, ban people and close the group down. Or target someone as an admin and try to steal their password (which can be harder)

Re:Not deleting accounts, but hijacking groups

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does Kevin Rose hate the Jews?

Re:Not deleting accounts, but hijacking groups

[Anonymous Coward]

lol criticism of Israel policies != anti-semite

Time to put down your bible and read something else

USA is in such trouble because of people like you

Re:Not deleting accounts, but hijacking groups

[ub3r n3u7r4l1st]

wow there are indeed /.ers still watching faux news.

More likely explanation

[M. Baranczak]

Some of FB's servers went down. Some paranoid Algerian guy, who may or may not have good reason to be paranoid, noticed this, and assumed that it was targeted at him personally. And a rumor got started.

Re:More likely explanation

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of FB's servers went down. Some paranoid Algerian guy, who may or may not have good reason to be paranoid, noticed this, and assumed that it was targeted at him personally. And a rumor got started.

So say the government lackeys . . .

Re:More likely explanation

[M. Baranczak]

Some of FB's servers went down. Some paranoid Algerian guy, who may or may not have good reason to be paranoid, noticed this, and assumed that it was targeted at him personally. And a rumor got started.

So say the government lackeys . . .

Actually, I work for the Mossad. But I'm on vacation right now - the above post was for free.

who said "deleting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

The body of TFA doesn't actually say anything about "deleting Facebook accounts"; that only appears in the little teaser under the headline, which was probably written by someone other than the person who wrote the article itself. Far more likely that they're blocking access to Facebook in general (along with Twitter and other easily-subversive sites). It's what I'd do if I were the despot in charge there.

Why shouldn't they believe?

[SuperKendall]

The problem is that ridiculously entrenched tin-pot dictators continue to believe that they can control to populous like they did in the pre-Internet days when all you had to do was shut down a few newspapers and "disappear" their enemies.

Worked for Iran.

The internet means nothing if the despot is determined.

Re:Why shouldn't they believe?

[Frosty Piss]

Worked for Iran.

Things are a changin'

Re:Why shouldn't they believe?

[countertrolling]

Things are a changin'

No, <they aren't>

Re:Why shouldn't they believe?

[SuperKendall]

Things are a changin'

In Iran?

When?

The world hung those poor Green Revolution people out to dry, but good. I don't think you'll see revolutionary spirit there for about another generation, as most of the leaders of the current one are busy getting tortured and raped in jail cells currently.

Ugly, but that's how it sits.

Re:Why shouldn't they believe?

[Anonymous Coward]

What worked for Iran is using imported Hezbollah thugs from neighboring countries, because Persian security forces would not turn on Persians. But even that will be put to the test eventually. At some point things will come to head again, and I don't very much think that Persian army would stand by while Arab thugs murder their own people in the streets.

Re:Why shouldn't they believe?

[tehcyder]

The problem is that ridiculously entrenched tin-pot dictators continue to believe that they can control to populous like they did in the pre-Internet days when all you had to do was shut down a few newspapers and "disappear" their enemies.

Worked for Iran.

The internet means nothing if the despot is determined.

The despot means nothing if the people are determined.

Re:Why shouldn't they believe?

[SuperKendall]

The people mean nothing if they are dead, which happens when the despot is determined.

Well

[jav1231]

Anyone who would setup that hideous new photo viewer is capable of most any evil.

North Africa is "next"

[Anonymous Coward]

Haven't you people been reading all those "North Africa will produce all the electricity Europe needs by 2050"?
Look it up and check the maps. Almost every country that power-lines are supposed to go through is in the process of changing government/revolting or is "next".
And the plan is to have the electricity start flowing to Europe by 2020. And by god, all those countries will be capitalist democracies by then.

At least this time it is in the interest of both big business, European countries AND the United States to keep that region as stable and as peaceful as possible.
Cause for the first time, it is not the old "get in, grab their resources and run before they learn to use guns" game any more.
You can't store electricity or fill up a tanker with it. Nor can you park your civilization by the side of the road until it starts to flow again if interrupted.

Alternative would be, I guess, to have every man, woman and child in the region issued a gun an ordered to protect the solar arrays and power-lines from terrorists, copper thieves and possibly sandworm-riding Fremen.
Cause when it comes to "must flow", spice has nothing on electricity.

Re:North Africa is "next"

[jack2000]

Why even care, nuclear power is so much easier to harvest and closer to home.

Unstable

[jason18]

There's been some form of rioting going on for awhile now in Algeria, so I'm surprised this hasn't happened already, with Tunisia on their border and Egypt only a country away. One would think that the Algerian leaders would realize that killing Facebook won't help, but they're probably so paranoid that the African leaders aren't thinking right (shocker). The Wikipedia article does a nice job of telling how nuts it is over there right now, with a summary of all the self-immolations happening not so much from "I hate the country" but from "family altercations and love disappointments". Whatever the case, Algeria is next in line.

More likely

[Anonymous Coward]

More likely they're doing what Tunisia did. Snooping the non-HTTPS traffic and gleaning the passwords, then logging in and deleting the account.

Revelation

[theorem4]

Wait, they are actually able to delete Facebook accounts? Here, take mine!

Re:Revelation

[Internetuser1248]

I think there might be remnants of mine left too, do I have to move to Algeria or do i just need to talk smack about them online?

Password stealing is easy when you hold it's owner

[tehaynes]

It is easy enough to acquire the password when you hold it's owner captive. I am a US citizen and I gave my government my password to my laptop at the Canadian border just so they would let me go to the bathroom. Giving up your facebook credentials would be trivial unless you were very dedicated.

Did the same thing in Tunisia

[kabloom]

Tunisia also tried packet sniffing to steal the Facebook passwords of everyone in the country, so they could delete the pages that were being used to coordinate protests. I'm sure it's only a matter of hours before someone at Facebook employs the same solution for Algeria, forcing everyone in Algeria to connect by SSL and turning on face-based identity verification, a feature whose introduction has already been discussed here on Slashdot

Re:Did the same thing in Tunisia

[Anonymous Coward]

In Tunisia didn't they insert code into the Facebook website through the Tunisian central servers to capture passwords? That was my understanding of what they were doing.

Re:Did the same thing in Tunisia

[mr100percent]

I think it was more the Tunisian ISPs capturing the page and inserting their own javascript code before sending it to the client.

Re:Did the same thing in Tunisia

[kabloom]

You're right. The original article I read didn't discuss exactly how the attack occurred, but once I knew what to search for I found an attribution to JavaScript pretty fast.

Still, both kinds of attacks have exactly the same defense.

In Egypt...

[Anonymous Coward]

The government used DPI to both analyze traffic and inject additional code into the Facebook login page when accessed via HTTP. The additional code was used by governement officials to steal login details of protestors, obtain access to their accounts, track the owners of the accounts down and delete the profiles. That is until The usage of anonymisation services sucha as the i2p darknet and TOR started become more widespread. As always there is no magic bullet or 'perfect' security but personal scrutiny of what you do and how do it can change the world.

Not that you can delete accounts...

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook wants your information. You can deactivate your account, but it's not really deleted. At any time in the future, if you log back into your account, it's reactivated.

why give the benefit of the doubt?

[jmcvetta]

Do we have any reason at all to suspect that Facebook is not cooperating with the Algerian regime? So far FB has never done anything that would make me afford them the benefit of the doubt. I would be shocked - nay, it would strain my belief - if they didn't willingly cooperate with the government.

Re:why give the benefit of the doubt?

[coolmadsi]

I thought when they noticed the Tunisian government were doing bad things with their website they pushed HTTPS on all Tunisian users, which would have slightly hampered the governments attempt to control communications.

I always hated Algebra!

[erroneus]

I saw that headline and thought "Really? Is there like a bug that can be traced back to an algebraic expression resulting in accounts being deleted?" It's 2am; what can be expected?

FWIW, I didn't hate algebra... kinda liked it when I was in school ...not sure I like it now but back then it was pretty easy and no one else around me thought it was easy.

If Algeria is next, we can hope for Libya too

[G3ckoG33k]

If Algeria is next, we can hope for Libya too. Unfortunately, Libya's Khaddaffi known for his sex orgies has a likeminded friend in the senile Italian clown Berlusconi.

North African girls?! Who supply them? Are they traded goods?!

Yahoo writes: "Silvio Berlusconi, the long-serving prime minister of Italy, is facing multiple scandals that are entertaining and deadly serious. Italian prosecutors are seeking a fast track trial for Berlusconi on a number of charges. The charges include abuse of power and having sex with an under aged prostitute. On the first charge, Berlusconi is accused of bribing a British lawyer named David Mills to provide favorable testimony in court cases. The more entertaining charge concerns an alleged sexual encounter between the 74-year-old Berlusconi and a 17-year-old night club dancer named Karima El Mahrough, possibly an Egyptian national, and paying for the privilege. Berlusconi and El Mahrough have denied having sex. Berlusconi appears to be trapped in a curious contradiction in Italian law. The age of consent in Italy is 14 and paying for sex is not illegal. But paying for sex with someone under 18 is a crime punishable by three years in jail."

Times of India wrote: "An influential Italian Catholic newspaper said on Tuesday that the prostitution probe into Premier Silvio Berlusconi's encounters with a Moroccan teenager is like a 'devastating tornado' damaging the country's image"

Sorry Italy, the damage is done, years ago by not kicking out that turd.

Let us hope that at least some EU politician have b0ll0cks and can take that little fu**er in his b**** and tell the Algerian leaders and the Libyan Khadaffi pack to take their bags and go to Saudi Arabia for retirement. William Bush Jr is probably already there waiting for them, similing and waiving.

Re:If Algeria is next, we can hope for Libya too

[Corbets]

So much for innocent until proven guilty, eh?

Re:If Algeria is next, we can hope for Libya too

[Anonymous Coward]

i don't understand what you propose to do: people should elect who they want (like in Italy) or not (like in Lybia)?

Re:If Algeria is next, we can hope for Libya too

[tombeard]

That never applies to politicians. Just as a practical matter.

Re:If Algeria is next, we can hope for Libya too

[G3ckoG33k]

Out of two bad ills, I prefer the Itialian system.

An unsubstantiated claim?

[benfell]

I notice that the story linked above doesn't substantiate the claim. The only reference appears in a teaser (above the byline) which I'm guessing might have been written by an editor rather than by the reporter. It's a helluva rumor to start--I've been seeing all over the place all day.

Facebook's role

[nour-fwh]

Maybe Facebook should starts encrypting passwords on client side too.

Dumbasses

[bedouin]

When they shut the Internet off here in Egypt it only made people more pissed. Nothing to do inside then you go outside and join everyone else. If you work from home then you're even more pissed off.

Re:Dumbasses

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe I read reports of network throttling, which has similar power in terms of obstruction to communications, while providing plausible deniability.

Re:Dumbasses

[Anonymous Coward]

Please tell me that you're not back to sitting inside all day ignoring the political world, now?

A popular revolution which loses its support after it wins has won nothing, that's how Khamenei took over, you recall. Moving from one dictator to another isn't progress.

Re:Does Anyone really care?

[Opportunist]

The question that interests me more than whether or not Algeria has internet access or not is: Can it happen to me when (not if) we do the same?

Friends

[Anonymous Coward]

http://betweentwosouths.blogspot.com/2010/06/berlusconi-and-gaddafi-history-of-sex.html
Berlusconi and Gaddafi history of sex in tent. Many newspapers tell that thanks to Silvio Berlusconi in Libya, Colonel Gaddafi has allowed the release of the Swiss entrepreneur Max Goeldi and the three Italian vessels that were seized. Nevertheless, forgive me, but I am one of the few, very few Italian citizens who tend to distrust what the press say and, above all, everything about our Prime Minister.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6814939.ece
The tent was decorated with imprints of camels and shuddered with every gust of Saharan wind. In this unlikely setting, Tony Blair met Col Muammar Gaddafi in the depths of the Libyan desert yesterday and sought to demonstrate how British diplomacy has transformed a pariah state into an ally. Col Gaddafi, once paymaster and arms dealer to the IRA and a host of other terrorist groups, is now on first name terms with the Prime Minister. While Ronald Reagan once referred to the Libyan leader as a "mad dog" and sent American bombers to strike Tripoli, Mr Blair pays tribute to a reliable ally. Also inside the tent yesterday was Peter Sutherland, the chairman of BP, which subsequently announced that it will return to Libya more than three decades after Col Gaddafi, filled with revolutionary fervour, nationalised all the company's assets in the country. Officials travelling with Mr Blair said the oil firm had signed a £450 million agreement, with the prospect of 17 wells being drilled. They added that if all this exploration reached its full potential the deal could be worth £13 billion.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6814939.ece
The British government decided it was “in the overwhelming interests of the United Kingdom” to make Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi, the Lockerbie bomber, eligible for return to Libya, leaked ministerial letters reveal. Gordon Brown’s government made the decision after discussions between Libya and BP over a multi-million-pound oil exploration deal had hit difficulties.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/gaddafi-son-prisoner-deal-linked-to-trade-and-oil-1778509.html
The son of Colonel Gaddafi today claimed Libya's original prisoner transfer deal with the UK had targeted the Lockerbie bomber and was directly linked to talks on trade and oil. But, in an interview with The Herald newspaper, Saif al-Islam al-Gaddafi denied it had anything to do with the eventual release last week of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi. Speaking at his home near Tripoli Saif Gaddafi said the "deal in the desert" more than two years ago - which saw an agreement signed between Tony Blair and Libya allowing prisoner transfers - specifically targeted Megrahi. He added however that Megrahi's name was never mentioned. He told the Herald: "For the last seven to eight years we have been trying very hard to transfer Mr Megrahi to Libya to serve his sentence here and we have tried many times in the past to sign the PTA (prisoner transfer agreement) without mentioning Mr Megrahi, but it was obvious we were targeting Mr Megrahi and the PTA was on the table all the time. "It was part of the bargaining deal with the UK. When Blair came here we signed the agreement. We didn't mention Mr Megrahi. "We signed an oil deal at the same time. The commerce and politics and deals were all with the PTA."

While no-one is guilty before verdict, the kind of friends you have may well influence the verdict. History is written by anyone, and ignored by those who can

Algeria is not tunis or egypt

[Anonymous Coward]

what happend to egypt and tunisia we did it in 1989 .we can say or write anything . we love our president .
it's true that we have some economics problems but Algeria is better than a lot town in this world.

Does any of you actually know what it's like

[Anonymous Coward]

in Algeria? The come at night. They take someone out of their bed. The day after that activists account is deleted. Don't ask how they got the password.

Article says nothing about Facebook

[DocJohn]

While the headline and blurb suggest that indeed Facebook is being targeted in some manner, the article body itself makes absolutely no specific reference to Facebook. What this suggests is that the headline and blurb (introductory text to the article) were written by someone else -- an editor, usually -- who either didn't read the article very carefully, or made an assumption about what is actually being done.

It's odd how this could have been published as-is on a respected news website like the Telegraph.

Users protecting themselves, perhaps?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps wary of Facebook's notorious privacy lapses, users themselves are electing to delete their own accounts do diminish the government's ability to track them.

This is a lie

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in algeria and we never face a problem like this.

please why don't speak about who create elkaieda? because you now it's usa

Missing third option

[Z3n1th]

Abuse of Facebook's flagging system.

Algeria doesn't delete facebook comments

[Anonymous Coward]

They delete facebook users

Barak-O Vision, Where for Out Thow

[Anonymous Coward]

Barak-O Vision is scrambling like mad to maintain FUD on America (Mr. Mubarak, it is time to leave. We want democracy.) and his true sentiments (Frantic Call to Egypt: Put your security chief in charge, JN likes him a lot, and get yourself safe Hossni; we'll recycle you when the people, err, protesters are killed.).

Now Barak-O Vision faces the possible loosing of rendition and torture sites Algeria and Yemen.

The troubles of our Terrorist-n-Chief. Pity pity pity.

-308

I wish they would delete mine.

[ThurstonMoore]

The best I could do when I wanted to delete my Facebook account was deactivate it. It occasionally gets reactivated when someone hacks it and I have to deactivate it again.

Re:Barak-O in Big Trouble O

[Anonymous Coward]

Poor widdle right wing loony is maiking uo silly sotries again, . Go away troll.

Troll in chief 308 has nothing to say as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

You right wing nut jobs get more pathetic every day!

308 is pathetic troll

[Anonymous Coward]

Really just go away child.

Legal/security threats or confusion

[h00manist]

If they have national ISP level intercepting and filtering, it's possible the accounts are simply being denied access, and these "deletions" are confused newbie level reports spread by rumour. They could also simply be using some Algerian legal or security argument to force Facebook to delete accounts. Much easier and more typical of an oppressive, controlling regime. High level Intelligence, using undetectable methods, are not required there, I think those are more typical of countries with pseudo, formal democracies, where to keep appearnces, these things can't become known to be attributed to government.

SSL is broken already -- HTTPS won't help

[Anonymous Coward]

If you control the ISP it's no problem -- there are a number of inline SSL decryption appliances out there that can collect this information for you. If you're in the middle, it's game over.

HTTPS in North Africa

[mischasan]

Don't know how Algeria is, but if it's anything like Tunisia, your ISP is definitely a man-in-the-middle. Stuck out like a sore thumb when talking to my bank (credit union) in Canada. I gave up doing any online banking there, figuring what some underpaid government employee could do. Quite likely and possible that Algeria's probably been harvesting FB logins for a while.

in all honesty

[Anonymous Coward]

Who gives a tuppeny ..? It is Algeria,,,,God's way of telling you not to live there ...

lol

regards

Fitvideo

Most likely

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook is cooperating.

I mean, they sell private information to corporate world for money, why not sell this for money too?

Re:MUCH More likely explanation

[rahunzi]

Some of FB's servers went down. Some paranoid Algerian guy, who may or may not have good reason to be paranoid, noticed this, and assumed that it was targeted at him personally. And a rumor got started.

Go to Libya. Wake up. Amble over to market. Buy tube of Crest toothpaste and some grapes. Straggle back to hotel. Go to bathroom. Turn on hot water and pray (for hot water, cold water, brown water, anything at all). Brush teeth. Yeccchhh. Look at toothpaste. Surprise! It's "Crust", not Crest. N Africa is a world of knock-offs. Including hackers. RUMORED government Facebook attacks (unless Alg. hired like, http://www.narus.com/ as Egypt did) are rumors and normal N Africa glitches. *yawn*

Net shutdown failed in Egypt

[minstrelmike]

Shutting off internet access in Egypt failed miserably. It forced people to leave their computers and take to the streets.

If Algerians cannot get to the fBook or google up their friends, then they'll have to leave their homes, too.