Civ IV's Baba Yetu Wins First Grammy For Video Game

quantumstream writes "Christopher Tin made video game history yesterday by winning a Grammy for Best Instrumental Arrangement Accompanying Vocalist(s) for his song, Baba Yetu, featured prominently as the main theme song of Civilization IV. The composer, who wrote the song for his former Stanford University roommate Soren Johnson, has also seen the work featured at the largest choreographed water fountain in the world at the Burj Khalifa tower in Dubai."

Comments

Re:Civ IV?

[Rakshasa Taisab]

I know it can be hard to read the article where it says it won as part of a compilation album that was released not long ago... But could you actually just skip the critical first posting instead if you can't be arsed with reading the article?

Re:Civ IV?

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Yes but we all miss the Lion King.

Definitely deserved

[Sir_Sri]

Of all the video game music that could possibly qualify, this one is definitely deserving.

It's just the Lord's Prayer in Swahili, but exceptionally well done.

Re:Definitely deserved

[HeckRuler]

I agree that it sounds pretty good,
But all this just hammers home how much of a disappointment Civ5 is.

Re:Definitely deserved

[A. B3ttik]

This was a triumph!!

Re:Definitely deserved

[AdamThor]

I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS.

Re:Definitely deserved

[c0mpliant]

I'm making a note here 'HUGE SUCCESS'

Re:Definitely deserved

[Anonymous Coward]

It's hard to overstate my satisfaction.

Re:Definitely deserved

[anss123]

The YouTube video is a bit different than the OGG files that come with the game.

It's "definitely deserving" in either form though.

Re:Definitely deserved

[stjobe]

As far as video game music goes, Age of Conan has a truly wonderful soundtrack.
Here's just one (eerily beautiful) example: The Dreaming Anew - Memories of Cimmeria.

Re:Definitely deserved

[donscarletti]

My sister walked down the aisle to this music in December. Most people in the church didn't know it was from a computer game, the few I told were shocked. As a games programmer, I am proud that our artform is less of an artistic laughing stock today than it once was.

Re:Definitely deserved

[El_Muerte_TDS]

Of all the video game music that could possibly qualify, this one is definitely deserving.

That sounds quite condescending on game music. It was probably not your intention. In 1089 categories that the Grammy knows it's quite sad that there was only 1 entry from the Videogames industry.

Re:Definitely deserved

[Grizzley9]

I always enjoyed the Homeworld soundtrack. In fact they did too as it came as it's own regular CD in the box.

Re:Definitely deserved

[Lord Ender]

Civ 5 is fun. The interface is good. The graphics are good. The music is good (maybe not Grammy-quality). The gameplay is interesting. The multiplayer is a disaster, but then there has never been good multi in Civ.

I have noticed that I don't replay the game as much as I did previous Civs, but I assume that's because I have grown up, not because of the game. I can't find significant flaws in the game, although there were plenty in previous versions!

I think it's my own maturity that's disappointing, not Civ V.

Re:Definitely deserved

[Nadaka]

I occasionally pop the soundtrack for X3:Terran Conflict that came with the gold edition when I am on a long drive. Its good, non distracting ambiance.

Re:Definitely deserved

[BitZtream]

I have to agree, its the only time I've ever put a CD from a game in my car to listen to.

Didn't actually know what it was though, it just sounded good and reminded me of some Deep Forest.

Re:Definitely deserved

[WuphonsReach]

Key issues:

- The really bad happiness mechanic.
- Having more of a luxury resource was pointless after the first one.
- Easily exploited city-states. To the point where they imbalanced the game.
- Poor game balance at release. Just absolutely horrid game balance.
- Really *realy* poor AI at release.
- 1 unit/tile stacking sounds neat, until you try and work with it in the ancient era.
- Game board is way too small. If you're going to do 1/tile unit limits, then you need 4x to 6x more tiles for the same area. So if the hexes had been divided up into 6 smaller hexes, it might have actually been viable.
- Mass simplification of so many attributes of the previous game.
- There was way too much "throw the baby out with the bath water" to the design of Civ5. The young hot-shot developers were given too much free reign to put their "stamp" on the franchise, rather then keeping them in check and developing a better Civ4.

I played about 40-60 hours worth in the first few weeks. Wanting to like it, trying hard to like it, but ultimately it was a severely flawed Civ release. I'm not surprised that it got really shitty reviews on Amazon (last check, almost 600 reviews and it barely averages a 2.3 out of 5.0). Hell, there are 593 reviews and 279 of them are 1-star reviews.

They need to fire the lead designer who did Civ5 and look long and hard at what people liked about Civ4 and work that into the next revision of Civ5.

Re:Definitely deserved

[Seumas]

Yeah, except the game and sound track came out six years ago. Welcome to 2005, Grammys!

Re:Definitely deserved

[X0563511]

Homeworld's star in the soundtrack (they used the theme over and over) was just Addagio for Strings, composed by Samuel Barber. He finished it in 1936.

Re:Definitely deserved

[Neuticle]

The lyrics are slightly more than just the the Lord's Prayer translated: it significantly repeats some sections and alters the overall order quite a bit. Someone at Civfantaics put up a transcription with an OK translation, Baba Yetu
A native speaker later put up a a much better translation. of some of the sections.

That covers the song pretty well, so I won't re-tread that, but the the Swahili language Lord's Prayer I Googled didn't match up with the song, or the version in my bible, so here it is for anyone interested:

(Mathayo 6, 9-13):

Baba yetu uliye mbinguni:
Jina lako litukuzwe.
Ufalme wako ufike.
Utakalo lifanyike duniani kama mbinguni.
Utupe leo chakula chetu tunachohitaji.
Utusamehe makosa zetu,
kama nasi tunavyowasamehe waliotukosea.
Usitutie katika majaribu,
lakini utuokoe na yule Mwovu.

[The optional doxology, which isn't in the text follows,]
Kwa kuwa ufalme ni wako, na nguvu, na utukufu, hata milele.

Re:Definitely deserved

[Pseudonym Authority]

Take note children, less than sixty seconds is the difference between a +5 funny and NOTHING.

Re:Definitely deserved

[Celestialwolf]

(In your signature, it says that "When argument against the man falls short, try arguing against the mother?" Is that right?)

Re:Definitely deserved

[AdamThor]

Indeed, it's a shame. I'd spend a mod point for poor c0mpliant, but I've already posted in this thread...

Re:Civ IV?

[jonnythan]

The song was first published on an album in the past year, making it eligible for this category.

Stay tuned next year...

[mfh]

Next year on the Grammy's award Star Trek Next Generation a grammy for this.

This is great.

[Stenchwarrior]

I think we'll start to see video games regarded less as "kids' entertainment" and more for the artistic value and performances. I was actually surprised by the fact that Ed Harris and Gary Oldman had leading roles in COD: Black Ops, but not as surprised as my wife who loves to tell me what a big kid I really am. Not that I can really disagree but at least now I can argue that it's for the actual story and immersive effect the *real* actors add to the project.

Now, how much longer before video games have their own category at the Oscars and the like?

Re:This is great.

[Nadaka]

...but not as surprised as my wife who loves to tell me what a big kid I really am...

The worst part is that when she does that, you can't just take your toys and go home.

Re:This is great.

[Seumas]

I don't know about that. Most gamers may be around 34 years old, but most 34 year olds do not game. And the attitude about gaming being "for kids" isn't going to change any time soon, considering you are constantly hearing kids and teens on XBOX Live surprised when they're playing against guys that are in their late 20s or 30s or even 40s. Their attitude is very often "wait, why are you still playing games when you're 30?" as if it's equivalent to a 30 year old still playing with action figures or dolls.

Re:This is great.

[Jedi Alec]

Ehmm, these days almost everyone games. Just because they're not playing an FPS with a bunch of jackass 15 yr olds on Xbox live doesn't mean they're not gaming...

Farmville is a game. Bejeweled is a game. World of Warcraft is literally overflowing with adults.

Re:This is great.

[Stenchwarrior]

I agree with the WOW part. I know one actual child (my son) that plays WOW and the rest are adults. You can pretty much pick them out of a crowd, too.

Bad Title...

[Provos]

The Grammy was actually won for Best Instrumental Arrangement Accompanying Vocalist(s), but hey, when has accuracy in reporting been /.'s game?

Re:Bad Title...

[bwcbwc]

Yes, it's a bad title: He actually won 2 Grammies: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=411886

"...Calling All Dawns is the winner in the Best Classical Crossover Album category. " -- which is a slightly bigger award than "Best instrumental arrangement..."

Our Father

[shuz]

who art in heaven hallowed by thy name... It really isn't a perfect translation but the song is basically "The lord's prayer" in Swahili.

Re:Our Father

[Seumas]

Yeah, but this is one of those cases where it's a beautiful song even despite it's despicable association by lyrics.

Wonderful music, wonderful game.

[Kashgarinn]

I always loved the music in Civ IV, especially this song, and Leonard Nimoy did a wonderful job on the quotations, here's a taste:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Z6e7igvMA.

The song is the "Our father" prayer in Swahili, if people didn't know.

Re:Civ IV?

[gblackwo]

The two choices are mutually exclusive. You can't get first post AND read the article.

Re:Civ IV?

[SirGarlon]

Yeah, the Grammys have a soundtrack category but it looks like it's for film and television only. So having the song (re)-released on an album is what made it eligible for consideration.

Civ IV vs. Civ V

[MoldySpore]

Yea, as much as I liked Civ V, Civ IV definitely had more epic music and voice-overs. That intro music paired with narration and voice-over work by Leonard Nemoy makes Civ V's music and voice-overs seem lack-luster in comparison, and they are pretty good too! If they could combine the music and voice-over work from IV with the advancements in gameplay in V, you'd have an amazing Civ game.

Re:Civ IV vs. Civ V

[Inda]

hmm. I've been playing the game without the music and the volume way down low so as not to annoy the other half.

Have I missed something special?

Re:Civ IV vs. Civ V

[Lord Ender]

Yes. Get yourself a high-quality set of wireless headphones. Go for the closed-cup design, as that will even drown out your wife's nagging and complaining about your excessive computer use.

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/wireless-headphone-stereo-surround-sound-headphones-502874

Re:Civ IV vs. Civ V

[Nick Ives]

The music in Civ IV is amazing, especially the modern era music which is by John Adams.

Fountain Show

[ahecht]

If you haven't seen the Dubai fountain show choreographed to Baba Yetu, you owe it to yourself to check out the amazing video on YouTube (uploaded by the composer): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMf85JxUod4

Re:Fountain Show

[MasJ]

That's just awesome! I have seen the show a huge number of times but never with Baba Yetu as the accompanying track. I do remember that the Sharjah fountain at one point had Final Fantasy X's Suteki Da Ne as it's music. Wonder how the fountains here are so enchanted with video game music..

Don't forget Brentalfloss' great parody

[Halo1]

Civilization with lyrics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL6wlTDPiPU

Grammys awarding video game music now?

[makusu]

well, that's gonna make the whole thing much more complex I think first this song..then what about all that amazing music videogames have? I can think of a bunch of songs that could very well qualify for an award. maybe it's something the tards at the grammy awards are gonna consider. I don't think there's anything out there that specifically awards video game music composers..is there? although I believe the guy who composed the music for ELDER SCROLLS OBLIVION did get some sort of award. and I think the guy who composed the music for ECCO the dolphin also got something.

Re:Grammys awarding video game music now?

[MattSausage]

Honestly I thought some of the best music in videogames was in the original Homeworld. That is a game we need to see a sequel to sometime soon.

Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[Sycraft-fu]

So far we've had 5 games and all have been worth playing. None of them have been a "Oh my god, this is crap, why'd they release it?" sort of thing, but as you'd expect some are better than others. Those are the even numbered ones so far.

Civ 1 was a good game, but a little simplistic and suffered from some bad design decisions, such as a civ being able to steal Automobile and instantly build tanks, regardless of other tech levels.

Civ 2 was just an amazingly solid game. Detailed, yet pretty easy to play over all, no real design flaws, just a real top notch title, to the point is still one that people pine over (see things like Freeciv).

Civ 3 was kinda meh. Not a bad game, but it seemed like a step back from Civ 2 in many ways. The graphics were better but the game play got way too much on the micromanagement, and the AIs didn't seem to be as good. All in all it was ok, but many people stuck with Civ 2.

Civ 4 was just legendary. Best Civ ever. Beautiful graphics, solid game play, extremely flexible expansion system, etc, etc. Just a home run all around. Extremely popular, many expansions, many more mods, just Civ as it should be done.

Civ 5 seems to again be a step back. Beautiful graphics and a solid engine behind everything, but a rather crappy AI and some questionable design decisions (like non-stacking units which lead to massive sprawl late game). Not a horrible game, but in more than a few ways one that doesn't measure up to Civ 4.

That just seems to be the pattern. Hopefully this means that Civ 6 will once again be an amazing game.

I should note that I don't hate Civ 5 (or Civ 3), just that I do feel it doesn't measure up to Civ 4. I also feel it was an overrated game. Most review sites gave it a 9-10 score. I think had it been from another studio, just a 4x game and not "Civ" it would have been 7-8 more realistically. Not poorly done, but some real room for improvement in a number of areas, particularly when evaluated against its predecessor.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[H0p313ss]

And wouldn't you know it, I bought III & V.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[ginbot462]

To each his own. My rating is a bell curve with Civ 3 on top.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[XxtraLarGe]

You can get Civ IV Complete (Vanilla + 2 expansions & 1 mod) for $29.99 off of steam, and it's for both PC & Macintosh. If you're lucky, you might even catch it on sale. I picked it up for $9.99.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[Daetrin]

"Civ 5 seems to again be a step back. Beautiful graphics and a solid engine behind everything, but a rather crappy AI and some questionable design decisions (like non-stacking units which lead to massive sprawl late game). Not a horrible game, but in more than a few ways one that doesn't measure up to Civ 4."

After watching the debate in the online communities (mainly CivFanatics, the general tenor of which is summed up in Sulla's article about the subject) and playing almost 200 hours of the game myself, it seems that most of the problems in the game are related to depth. Which isn't to say that the game doesn't have depth, but that they did a great job on the basics while the underlying elements have flaws that aren't apparent at first.

I think that almost everyone who enjoys such games will love Civ 5 at first, all the changes they've made to the series will certainly provide a fresh experience. It's only as you spend more time with the game that you'll come to understand (consciously or unconsciously) the problems those changes have introduced. The amount of time it takes for that realization to happen will depend on how "hardcore" of a player you are. If you're a casual Civ player (though describing it that way is perhaps somewhat of an oxymoron) you can get a lot of fun out of Civ 5 before the problems drive you away in frustration or boredom.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[mooingyak]

I'd have to agree, Civ V is okay, but not nearly as good a game as Civ 4 was. While I'm okay with the non-stacking in Civ V, I do feel like it really cripples the AI as it's far less capable of handling the military strategy -- I've found myself able to easily handle opponents who are statistically much stronger than I am. This was true sometimes in Civ IV as well, but never quite to the same degree. I also strongly dislike the absence of tech trading. My favorite changes stem mainly from the naval changes: Ships are much more useful in V than they were in IV, and I also particularly like the embark unit ability.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[N0Man74]

I've put a lot of time into Civ 1, 3, 4, and 5 (I am in a minority that wasn't a fan of 2). Civ 5 isn't perfect, but I don't think it's as bad (currently) as many people make it out to be. The AI had issues upon the initial release (which have improved with patches), but the AI in previous versions had many holes that created severe weaknesses also.

I think that many weaknesses of the AI in some previous versions were hidden by the the AI's use of the SoD (Stack of Doom). You may find one-unit-per-tile to be questionable, but I think it's one of the greatest things about Civ 5. It has made it feel more tactical, and less about an arms race to have the biggest SoD.

I think Civ 5 made many great improvements to the game, but it falls short of Civ 4 in interface. Some of the interface changes I really like, but at the same time they have made some things rather clunky. I find myself constantly running into little things where there is a simple feature that could have really increased usability (in many cases, that existed in Civ 4) that they seemed to completely overlook or broke in Civ 5.

Examples of this would be when I'm trying to find a single unit from the unit list, and can't get it to show me where that unit is, or look at the civ/city-state list and can't have it show me where a city state is. Another frustration would be that the game allows for multiple aircraft to be in one city, but yet it has no way to select all air units in order to issue all of them the same order (such as rebase, sleep, or air strikes).

However, I feel like many people unfairly compare Civ 4 with expansions to Civ 5 with no expansions. Civ 4 was great, but it did evolve over time.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[atrain728]

And it'll run on a 5 year old PC. Civ V, not so much.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[shadowfaxcrx]

That's better than it used to be. I remember in Civ3 some dude with a spear destroyed my tank. I quit playing that day. I understand that all the units have % points assigned to determine the likeliness of a successful battle outcome, but not having a bronze-age spear thrower have an automatic 0% chance of success against units like a freaking *tank* was an asinine omission.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[Daetrin]

I'm mostly reiterating what was said in the article i linked in my earlier post in the thread, but there are two problems with the switch from the Stack of Doom system (SoD) to the one unit per tile system (1UPT), at least in regards to it being more tactical that way.

First, to the extent that it is more tactical, is that really a good thing? Civilization has always been first and foremost a strategy game. Adding more tactical elements isn't a bad thing per se, but it is a problem when those tactical elements detract from the strategic side. In earlier Civs the goal (at least if you were warmongering) was to create cities with high production so you could produce a large number of units and overpower the other players units. Civ5 has intentionally been designed to reduce the number of units you're able to produce so the tactical map isn't overflowing with units. So now instead of outproducing the enemy you have to out think the enemy with a limited supply of units. The problem is that the AI is so limited that that's not really a challenge. Given relative parity of troop types good players are able to maintain kill ratios of 12:1 or better against the AI, making conquest by far the easiest way to win the game. Under most circumstances (medium sized maps and reasonable difficulty) you can produce an army of a dozen units or less at the beginning and just keep upgrading the same units for the entire game, kicking the ass of any AI you come across.

So in short they reduced the strategic element (High production cities have been made more difficult to create and less valuable to have) in order to promote the tactical element, except the tactical element is a joke for anyone who's learned how to handle the AI.

Second, Civ4's SoDs are frequently pointed at by critics as one of the problems with the game, but they're not actually as overwhelming as they're made out to be. It's still important to use good tactics when going to war in Civ4. Stacking a large number of units does concentrate a lot of power, but it also makes the units in that stack vulnerable to collateral damage, and it also reduces the tactical options available to you. If i put all my units in one stack and try to invade you can sent multiple raiding parties into my territory to threaten multiple cities at once, and if all my units are in my SoD then i have nothing to defend with. (And if i'm able to produce so many units that i can defend my cities against anything you can throw at me and still have a SoD left over to invade that's larger than all your defenses then wouldn't you be just as screwed under the 1UPT system as well?)

If you look online for recaps of Civ4 games (both multiplayer and against the AI) you can find a lot of cases of players taking on large SoDs with inferior forces and triumphing due to good tactics. This usually happens when the player with less forces is defending and able to take advantage of internal mobility due to roads to make sure the combat happens on their own terms, but that's the way things often work in real life too.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[AvitarX]

It was worse in CIV 1.

It was fairly likely even, like I would say 1 in 10 chance for a phalanx to take out a bomber.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[Zorpheus]

Maybe it was a surprise attack while the tank crew was sleeping in their tents.

Re:Civ seems to be an "even number" series

[H0p313ss]

That I noticed... I really had to lower the graphics for it to run smoothly on a 15" macbook pro.

I was actually having more fun with Freeciv on the laptop and Civ Rev on the iPad.

Earworm

[davegravy]

Damn it, thanks a lot - now the song's stuck in my head.

I'm pretty sure I'd find it catchy even if I hadn't exposed myself to endless hours of it during CIV play over the years.

Oh an award!

[Huckabees]

Aw, it's a grammy...

MP3 and discussion

[antdude]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=123680 :)

Buy the whole album

[Kludge]

You can get the whole album from Tin's web site. I recommend it.

Other Great Video Game Works

[Rambone.ftw]

I think this is a fantastic move towards the progression of video games as artistic pieces. This piece was really well done and quite deserving IMHO. My favorite video game composers however would have to be Nobuo Uematsu (The Final Fantasy LEGEND) or Yasunori Mitsuda (Composer for Chrono Trigger.) Call me old-school, but that music is so incredibly simple yet stylish, that I rank them a cut above the rest. Another honorable mention, would be the composed works for Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Just my thoughts.

Re:Other Great Video Game Works

[dadelbunts]

Mine is Yuzo Koshiro. Noable works = Streets of rage 2 and more recently wangan midnight maximum tune. Sad how these great musicians will probably never recieve the credit they deserve.

Re:Wrong Version

[Martin Blank]

Different group? The album is by Christopher Tin, who is the same composer as was credited in the game. I haven't heard what was on the album, but I bet it isn't far from what was in the game, if it was different at all.

I bought the track off iTunes

[ducomputergeek]

You can buy the track preformed from Video Games Live off iTunes. It's a great song.

Re:The Grammy is retarded

[Daetrin]

You think the song is good, so clearly the problem is that it's got drums and chanting? I'm confused, do you think the Grammys should have a rule that only over-produced and auto-tuned pop/rock/hip-hop should win awards? It won the award for "Best instrumental Arrangement Accompanying Vocalists", which i agree is a rather nebulous category, but what song do you think should have won instead?

Re:The Grammy is retarded

[marco.antonio.costa]

I was just poking fun at the whole Grammies and african-dudes-chanting cartel since Paul Simon introduced the fad.

I love the song and I'm glad it got something.

VGL rocks.

[antdude]

It was radical/rad. when I went a few years ago since I love computer and video games. See http://aqfl.net/node/5439 for my comments and photographs/photos. that my friend and I took. :)

I prefer the original version and not the duets.

[antdude]

I noticed in VGL, they used to have solo version with choir. I watched PBS' VGL, and they added another singer for a duet which I did not like. :(

Re:Wrong Version

[Wyzard]

It's the same song, but performed by different singers. The in-game version was performed by (I think) an a cappella group at Stanford; the album version is performed by Ron Ragin and the Soweto Gospel Choir.

Basically, the artist re-recorded the song with more professional talent. Compare:

• Game version
• Album version

Re:Is this accurate?

[Daetrin]

"It seems to me that the music was written before it was licensed or contracted to be made."

From Christopher Tin's wikipedia page: "By far his biggest break came in 2005, when Soren Johnson, his roommate at Stanford and now working as a game designer at Firaxis Games, asked him to compose the theme song for Civilization IV. Tin responded with 'Baba Yetu,' a choral piece performed by Stanford Talisman."

It's really not that hard to check these things before spewing off the first criticism that comes to mind.