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Freedom Box Foundation Wants Plug Servers For All

An anonymous reader writes "From the NYTimes.com article: 'A Columbia law professor in Manhattan, Eben Moglen, [is] putting together a shopping list to rebuild the Internet — this time, without governments and big companies able to watch every twitch of our fingers. ... Put free software into the little plug server in the wall, and you would have a Freedom Box that would decentralize information and power, Mr. Moglen said. This month, he created the Freedom Box Foundation to organize the software.'"

225 comments

  1. Hip Hip Hurray ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Take the power back to the people.

    1. Re:Hip Hip Hurray ! by mug+funky · · Score: 1

      this is the most upbeat obvious first-post grab i've ever seen here!

  2. "Running a server" in violation of AUP by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Once everyone is getting them, they will cost $29." -- Eben Moglen

    And then everyone will get to watch their Internet bills double or triple as the ISP discovers that they're "running a server" in violation of the ISP's acceptable use policy and "helpfully" upgrades their service to business class.

    1. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can run a server with any ISP, but you can't use this server for BUSINESS if you have a residential plan. If you have a personal server to access to your file at home from school or job, its ok, but if you have a server for massive file distribution, you need an business plan.

    2. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by tepples · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can run a server with any ISP, but you can't use this server for BUSINESS if you have a residential plan

      That's not what the acceptable use policies that I've read state. From Comcast Xfinity Internet AUP:

      prohibited uses and activities include, but are not limited to, using the Service, Customer Equipment, or the Comcast Equipment, either individually or in combination with one another, to: [...] use or run dedicated, stand-alone equipment or servers from the Premises that provide network content or any other services to anyone outside of your Premises local area network (“Premises LAN”), also commonly referred to as public services or servers. Examples of prohibited equipment and servers include, but are not limited to, e-mail, Web hosting, file sharing, and proxy services and servers;

      From Verizon DSL and FiOS Internet AUP:

      You also may not exceed the bandwidth usage limitations that Verizon may establish from time to time for the Service, or use the Service to host any type of server.

    3. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i thought the point was to build a new internet of meshed wireless devices...without using the current internet...similar to how all the people downloading the same torrent form a network of computers. you are linked to your neighbors who are linked to their neighbors and so and so forth. i imagine the topology would look very similar to the topology of a social network...

    4. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 1

      So, it'll cost $70 instead of $30. At least that's what I pay.

      A bit of a bummer, yes, but far better than if the difference between consumer and business class was 10:10 instead of 2.3:1.

      --
      In Liberty, Rene
    5. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      So you can't update WoW?

    6. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by commodore6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>You can run a server with any ISP

      It sucks when people (like me) go-out and look things up, doesn't it? VERIZON DSL Terms of Service -

      "You may not exceed the bandwidth usage limitations that Verizon may establish from time to time for the Service, or use the Service to host any type of server. Violation of this section may result in bandwidth restrictions on your Service or suspension or termination of your Service."

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    7. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You only quoted one sentence, but I read the entire paragraph of the Verizon AUP and it's entirely clear they're talking about commercial servers.

    8. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by smelch · · Score: 1

      The key word is dedicated. So just use your file server to also stream music to your house and you're fine.

      --
      If I can just reach out with my words and touch a butthole, just one, it will all be worth it.
    9. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by melikamp · · Score: 1

      The costs may keep rising just because people got the taste for movies now. Running Apache and a decentralized social networking app for a few dozen friends will produce way less traffic than streaming 2-4 hours of decent-quality video every night. What do people put there? Text is nothing. 10 photos a day = 10 * 200 KiB * 25 friends = 50 MiB. I think Internet can handle this.

    10. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by msauve · · Score: 3, Informative
      Well, FCC rules trump their contract. Their recent net neutrality findings, which were broadly criticized here, won't allow ISPs to discriminate against servers:

      Rule 1: Transparency
      A person engaged in the provision of broadband Internet access service shall publicly disclose accurate information regarding the network management practices, performance, and commercial terms of its broadband Internet access services sufficient for consumers to make informed choices regarding use of such services and for content, application, service, and device providers to develop, market, and maintain Internet offerings.
      Rule 2: No Blocking
      A person engaged in the provision of fixed broadband Internet access service, insofar as such person is so engaged, shall not block lawful content, applications, services, or non-harmful devices, subject to reasonable network management.
      A person engaged in the provision of mobile broadband Internet access service, insofar as such person is so engaged, shall not block consumers from accessing lawful websites, subject to reasonable network management; nor shall such person block applications that compete with the provider’s voice or video telephony services, subject to reasonable network management.
      Rule 3: No Unreasonable Discrimination
      A person engaged in the provision of fixed broadband Internet access service, insofar as such person is so engaged, shall not unreasonably discriminate in transmitting lawful network traffic over a consumer’s broadband Internet access service. Reasonable network management shall not constitute unreasonable discrimination.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    11. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      Has anyone ever been tried for running a home server ?

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    12. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      The bad part of this is that many multi player games, even console ones turn your computer/console into a server. Same thing for sharing linux ISO's on bittorrent. Same for using ssh to remotely access your files from work.

    13. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Surt · · Score: 2

      Tried? It's a business contract, violation means dissolution of the contract, possibly with financial penalties. No trial is going to be involved.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    14. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Routing on any large scale mesh like that would be hell. Perhaps some form of offload, though... for large but not latency-sensitive files. Distributed cacheing, each node with a store, passing pieces between them by wireless.

    15. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by natehoy · · Score: 1

      "Tried"? As in, jury of your peers and a judge deciding the right and wrong? Umm, no. You're confusing a commercial enterprise with the legal system. One is a bunch of cronies appointed by a corrupt government to rule your life and adheres to a legal code designed to fuck you, the individual, over. The other is, err, well at least they have to fuck you over in front of a bunch of your clueless neighbors.

      "Cut off", as in, company sends a letter saying you aren't a customer and thanks to regulated monopoly laws you are Internetless for life unless you sacrifice your firstborn on their doorstep in an elaborate ritual that involves money? Yes.

      "Surcharged", as in, company sends a letter saying you are in violation of the AUP and you are retroactively upgraded to a commercial account for the last two years of service at an extra $100 a month, pay it or lose access? Yes.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    16. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by linuxpyro · · Score: 1

      Just about all ISPs have something like this to cover themselves. In truth, if you don't use a lot of bandwidth or let your service get compromised or off anything illegal they really don't seem to care. So if you plan to run a Web-based business off of your home cable connection (which I'm not sure I'd recommend anyway), you may have a problem. But if you're just hosting cat pictures, you're probably fine.

      --
      Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
    17. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Doesn't look like those rules would actually prevent the ISP's from having a "no servers" rule for residential clients.

      Those rules WILL make sure that if there's a server on the net, YOU will be able to access it. But there's nothing there that prevents an ISP from saying "no, you can't run a server on our service without paying commercial rates"...

      Note that "reasonable network management" is a remarkably open-ended phrase. A good lawyer should be able to justify pretty much anything under it.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    18. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Hatta · · Score: 2

      Any ISP offering "internet service" and refusing servers is guilty of false advertising. IP is a peer to peer protocol, all peers are equivalent. If I cannot run a server, I am not a peer, and I do not have internet access.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    19. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in a peer to peer network who is the server and who is the client?

    20. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by mlts · · Score: 1

      Or ISPs amend their TOS stating that those boxes are "a clear and present danger to their infrastructure", and automatically ban accounts running them. Detecting them would be a cat and mouse game, but generally in a game of cat and mouse, the cat wins.

    21. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      And then everyone will get to watch their Internet bills double or triple as the ISP discovers that they're "running a server" in violation of the ISP's acceptable use policy and "helpfully" upgrades their service to business class.

      I have no idea how popular such practices are somewhere else but atleast here in Finland you're perfectly safe and fine running your own servers. There's for example plenty of people running dedicated servers for their favorite games. Some ISPs filter certain incoming ports, like for example SSH, HTTP and HTTPS, but above a certain range they're all accessible. (Filtering SSH, HTTP and HTTPS isn't always fun, but I can certainly understand the idea behind that and thus I don't hold a grudge against those ISPs. Luckily my ISP doesn't do any filtering, though.)

      Obviously, you are allowed to sign up for a business account if you wish, but really, running one or another type of a server at home is so popular that it'd just be a lot of extra work for ISPs to monitor for such and then try to get the customer to change their subscriptions.

      I am curious though do they do that in some other parts of the world then?

    22. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by c6gunner · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes. I tried running a home server. And all I got was this lousy service cancellation.

    23. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Picardo85 · · Score: 1

      sucks to be in the US :D As far as I know very few if any countries in Europe have those deals from the ISPs.

    24. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a decent ISP. Mine does not have an "AUP" other than "All usage that is legal in this jurisdiction is acceptable"

    25. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by grub · · Score: 4, Funny

      "We see you're running a ping server and have updated you to Business Class."

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    26. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      And then everyone will get to watch their Internet bills double or triple as the ISP discovers that they're "running a server" in violation of the ISP's acceptable use policy and "helpfully" upgrades their service to business class

      No, just people in the US. In countries where we pay for bandwidth used rather than an "unlimited" plan hedged around with restrictions and caveats, our ISPs don't give a stuff about servers (unless they're poorly-configured SMTP servers being used as spam relays). Every byte we use is money in the bank for them.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    27. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      "Once everyone is getting them, they will cost $29." -- Eben Moglen

      And then everyone will get to watch their Internet bills double or triple as the ISP discovers that they're "running a server" in violation of the ISP's acceptable use policy and "helpfully" upgrades their service to business class.

      Why haven't they already done this to everyone who is using Skype, or XBox Live / PSN?
      Eg: Skype users with properly configured NAT can become supernodes (read servers) for others behind more restrictive/misconfigured NAT routers & firewalls. When you play Halo, one console is the "server", and all others are "clients".

      Look folks, down at the ISP's level it's all just packets. Up in the application level is where we say "client" or "server"; The distinction is purely arbitrary eg. Is Google running a web server that my browser client connects to, or am I running a web page request and search preferences server that supplies push notifications to the Google advertisement client?

      Care to make classifications based on the amount of up/down I do with Google? Fine: I never watch Youtube videos, but I frequently upload how-to videos to Youtube; When I notify Youtube that a new video is ready Youtube's client compulsively "downloads" my server's video to add to their ridiculous random collection. In this case my browser is the "server" and Youtube's machines are the clients -- They download from me much more than I download from them.

      It's all just packets, if ISPs didn't oversell their bandwidth (more so than Airlines oversell their seating) then we wouldn't need this client/server distinction in Internet service contracts. Also, most consumer connections are asynchronous anyhow, you get much more down than up speed -- It shouldn't matter if you're running a server or not, you can't shove the bits faster that your limit... If my tiny fraction of constant upstream traffic (in comparison to my huge download capacity) is a problem they shouldn't have sold it to me in the first place.

    28. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If every customers runs a server, the acceptable use of policy will become that everyone runs a server. Business is there to serve customer needs - not the other way around, even if that's not clear in virtual monopolies, like ISPs today.

    29. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then one savvy ISP discovers they can greatly increase revenue by allowing servers to run on the cheap, and then ALL the prices go down.

    30. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by adolf · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      I've run servers for years -- for awhile, I even maintained my own mail server on a home Roadrunner connection. And in the dialup days, I was usually connected 24/7. And when I had ISDN, I was always connected 24/7 on one channel, and often with two of them.

      Even today, port 25 is unblocked (free, with a phone call to the right people) on my AT&T Uverse connection. I've got SSH open, and a few other things that I find handy for myself (and, occasionally, others). Mostly, though, the Uverse pipe is filled up by automatically sucking down RSS feeds of TV show torrents that I can't be bothered to pay to watch anymore, and those 1080i rips can get pretty big . . .

      I've never, ever had any complaints from any ISP -- nary a peep. I pay the bill on time, they keep the pipe lit up, and the speeds are always consistent no matter what the content is. *shrug*

      Either I'm not as abusive as I feel that I am, or the reports of ISPs being assholes are greatly exaggerated.

    31. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 1

      i thought the point was to build a new internet of meshed wireless devices...without using the current internet...

      I'd like to see how such a mesh of wireless devices will be able to connect peers between continents...

    32. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Only those with out net neutrality laws. You buy the bandwidth and what you do with it is your business, unless you are breaking the law.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    33. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by migla · · Score: 1

      People should run servers any way unless they have only the one ISP available and don't want to risk their internet for freedom.

      If these freedom boxes become popular, the ISPs will change their policies.

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    34. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by cabraverde · · Score: 1

      How is this different from running any kind of decentralised P2P software?
      Have you ever been "helpfully upgraded" by your ISP for using BitTorrent?
      I doubt it.

    35. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then an ISP will see the niche of a more "liberal" aproach towards the server agreements and offer customers good internet speed with the option to host your own servers. We have a few of those already where I live and more ISP's have to follow because they are losing a lot of customers due to heavy usage restrictions.

    36. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Issarlk · · Score: 1

      Then you're out of luck. But very many peolple might be able to run their plug if they live in a country without local monopolies on net access and thus better ISPs who don't forbid hosting cat pictures.

    37. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, I haven't read TFA yet (I'm about to, honest), but surely for this to be a worthwhile venture it needs to also bypass the ISP and create a mesh network?

    38. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      Why do I get the feeling that Prof. Moglen has read Doctorow's "Little Brother" ?

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    39. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by Gnaythan1 · · Score: 1

      Why do I get the feeling that Prof. Moglen has read Doctorow's "Little Brother" ?

      I'm pretty sure Doctorow has read Eben Moglen. The man is a founder of the EFF.

    40. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by TheCRAIGGERS · · Score: 1

      Simple. We just use our Apple Newtons to hack into a couple satellites and leave them plugged in.

      If Steven Seagal can do it, I'm sure anybody on Slashdot could.

    41. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by tepples · · Score: 1

      Have you ever been "helpfully upgraded" by your ISP for using BitTorrent?

      No, but a lot of Comcast customers have earned a months-long ban for exceeding an unpublished upload cap.

    42. Re:"Running a server" in violation of AUP by sznupi · · Score: 1

      But if you're just hosting cat pictures, you're probably fine.

      Has you seen cats with cheeseburgers & theyr poplurity?

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  3. Is it really rebuilding or using alternative tech? by Machtyn · · Score: 2

    Why rebuild the Internet? Just call this Internet 3. The Internet was built with redundancy in mind. This sounds like it would be the ultimate redundant solution. My question would be how to prevent an attacker from taking out a multitude of nodes from a single point. Or, how hard will it be to return your node to the network after it has been brought down by an attack?

  4. wifi plus raid by Weezul · · Score: 2

    I just want a small wifi router with a built in raid array. :(

    --
    The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    1. Re:wifi plus raid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Asus RT-N16 with tomato usb or ddwrt will do what you need.
      it can take upto 2 usb hard drives and is gigabit multiband with n. and costs 100 bux or so.

    2. Re:wifi plus raid by sjames · · Score: 1

      Open it up and torrent some mp3s and it'll be raided in no time.

    3. Re:wifi plus raid by adolf · · Score: 1

      Off topic, but:

      Is the Asus RT-N16 actually fast? My most recent adventure in consumer-grade NAS was a 1TB Western Digital "World Edition" drive. It should've been fast.

      It was a fun box to tinker with (it's always fun to have a low-powered device with a shitload of storage, Linux, and a network connection), but the speeds were so slow (3-4 megabytes per second, typically, and CPU limited) that I threw away the cute and compact enclosure and associated electronics, and put the SATA drive into a real computer.

      At the time, folks in the know blamed a horrible driver for the gigabit(!) NIC that it included, but there were no proper solutions available. And I kind of miss tinkering with the thing.

      Lately, all I use my home Athlon XP Linux box for is to keep that same 1TB drive spinning and shared with Samba -- while it used to be my primary desktop machine, it hasn't even had a monitor or a keyboard attached in several years. The most drastic thing I've done with it in ages was to replace the old, hot AGP nVidia 5200FX card with a ~15-year-old PCI Matrox Millenium to save on energy, and the only reason it even has the "fancy" Matrox is because the system wouldn't boot with no video card installed at all and I threw away all of my even-shittier cards a few years ago... But it Does Not Crash (uptime has only been limited by UPS capacity and hardware changes -- I've seen two years of straight uptime from this machine), and I particularly like machines that Do Not Crash.

      Meanwhile, if I need a real Linux box (I am a Linux fanboy, despite all of this obvious disinterest) to tinker or do real work with, there's a few at work that I can use remotely and with impunity...which is good enough.

      And I've been noticing that my old WRT54GL isn't really keeping up with my recently-upgraded 12/1.5 VDSL some of the time, between RAM starvation and high load averages when doing a little content filtering and a lot of QoS under TomatoUSB: When dealing with lots of torrents, it seems to fall apart above about 1500 connections, at which point things get dropped randomly and turn weird. (Yep, I know. And I want to do it this way anyway.)

      So. I want a new low-power file-serving box, so I can turn off this Athlon machine that only shares files, and I want a new router with more RAM and a faster CPU. And USB 2.0 is plenty fast enough to keep up with this "Green Edition" 1TB drive.

      I know that the RT-N16 will pay for itself in short order based on power usage alone. I know that it's relatively hackable, and that there are a fair variety of current firmwares that it can work with. I know that it has 128MB of RAM, which is plenty for these jobs. But will it actually solve my problems sufficiently that I enjoy owning it, using it, and hacking it, or will I loathe its existence and be wishing for a better alternative?

      (I also know that I could just Google this, but I'd rather talk about it than read about it.)

    4. Re:wifi plus raid by guruevi · · Score: 1

      I use it as an X10 control server (with webserver & PHP), router (10/1Mbit on WAN) and DNS/DHCP server. Works quite well. I don't have storage or wireless on it (I use an Apple Time Machine for that which handles 2.4GHz and 5GHz dual-band, 5GHz gives much less interference from the dozen or so neighbors) but it does quite well and has gigabit port speeds. With 128Mb of RAM and 32Mb of Flash there is plenty.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  5. How do plug computers rebuild the internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wouldn't network devices be more useful in building a network? I love small ARM systems and have a couple myself, but they're all attached to the same old internet as the laptops and desktop PCs.

    1. Re:How do plug computers rebuild the internet? by Lennie · · Score: 1

      They are always on but don't use a lot of power and thus can be used as small servers and Tor-nodes and so on.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    2. Re:How do plug computers rebuild the internet? by Lennie · · Score: 1

      Maybe I should add some more:

      the idea is to make it wifi-capable and do the Mesh networking with others in the neighborhood.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
  6. Diaspora, Decentralized DNS, whatnot by aBaldrich · · Score: 2

    A one-man effort is not going to work; and if it is, it will certainly take way more than one year to build a free open network.
    You need lots of intelligente people working hard, and once they have the design, they need an important amount of money; not just 500k.

    --
    In soviet russia the government regulates the companies.
    1. Re:Diaspora, Decentralized DNS, whatnot by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

      He's selling a product, if 500k is enough to get production going and start generating revenue then it could very well be enough to start a revolution. Not saying it's going to happen, and certainly not saying it's going to change the internet this year (which isn't what he said anyway), but with 500k (AKA 2 experienced engineers and 4 college grads working for a year) he could conceivably have the hardware and software to beta status and ready to sell to early adopters (which is what he said).

    2. Re:Diaspora, Decentralized DNS, whatnot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hopefully it will fail as spectacularly as the once upon-a-time one-man effort to write a 80386 kernel for fun. God knows that didn't go anywhere after being announced!

    3. Re:Diaspora, Decentralized DNS, whatnot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're right. creating and selling the hardware/software bundles should be fast. creating the network of users will take the most time. however, they could get a leg-up and start building the network now, virtually, using the existing internet. i'm talking about creating software that runs in the background on a computer that attempts to connect to other computers in my Internet IP range. this connection attempt will be successful if that computer is running the same software (and firewall holes have been made). once connection is made, all connected computers are part of a VPN, except, in this case, the P in VPN stands for Public instead of Private.

      sort of like a file-sharing network, but with it's own Distributed DNS and encrypted communications.

      the hardware version would look for the wifi signal of a nearby 'freedombox' instead of 'nearby' Internet computers.

    4. Re:Diaspora, Decentralized DNS, whatnot by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Difference being that back then, people gave a damn.

      I'm not that old, and yet I've already lost that "spark" that made hacking fun. The need to pay bills by entertaining increasingly dumber clients has taken all the joy out of computing. 15 years ago I would have pooped out these self-assembling network plugs over a few sleepless nights of furious coding and soldering. Today,

      consumes all the neural budget I'm willing to commit.

      Between that and the endless stream of idiots with "the next billion-dollar idea", I can't help but show indifference at the idea of yet another network filled with the same people. It has gotten so ridiculous that the idea of a moneyless society seems more realistic than a decent internet.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    5. Re:Diaspora, Decentralized DNS, whatnot by gandhi_2 · · Score: 1

      Go ahead an invent an entire new internets.

      As soon as there is porn, copyrighted materials, commerce, cyberbullying, un-approved knowledge, or hurtful words on it, governments will ALWAYS find a way to get involved.

      Based on the history of BBS's and the Internets, I suspect that won't take long.

      Soccer moms, concerned citizens, safety nazis, anti-business and anti-free-speech lefties, anti-porn religious and anti-free-knowledge righties, there's about a thousand sides of a thousand issues and they ALL want a slice of pie.

    6. Re:Diaspora, Decentralized DNS, whatnot by Lennie · · Score: 1

      What revenue ? He does not make money from this. This is about letting manufacturers sell plugcomputers and open source people delivering useful software for them. If enough are being sold, the price of the hardware will come down, that was all he argued.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
  7. He forgot something by commodore6502 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wires. That requires an external provider, either a private monopoly or the government. And of course that lets them tap the wire.

    --
    Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    1. Re:He forgot something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This box needs to be part of a wireless mesh network.

    2. Re:He forgot something by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Even if you get your last mile via some mesh wifi setup, it still all going through a trunk line at *some* point. One way or another, it's all eventually going to the Man.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:He forgot something by tepples · · Score: 2

      How, using technology available as of this month, can a pure wireless mesh network independent of the regulated Internet reach from Los Angeles to Tokyo, or even from Los Angeles to New York for that matter?

    4. Re:He forgot something by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

      It's not about getting rid of ISPs, it's about getting rid of Facebook and the like. It's not about tapping the wire, it's about querying the Facebook DB.

      If you know about Diaspora, that's the kind of thing he wants to see people running on these wallwarts.

    5. Re:He forgot something by flaming+error · · Score: 2

      > that lets them tap the wire.

      Hence the encryption.

    6. Re:He forgot something by tramusen · · Score: 1

      Was thinking the same thing. This would be interesting as a mesh network node that did not require an ISP connection, though that creates additional problems. Such as a lack of nodes. Even with the ISP requirement, this is still a cool idea. Not for the form factor, that has been done. For the simplicity. It has the potential to make these capabilities MUCH more accessible to the average person. I still remember trying to get wifi drivers hacked together for Linux just 10 years ago, now so many distributions have out-of-the-box wireless. That makes Linux much more appealing, much more usable for the non-techie. This is kind of like that advancement, but for specialized servers. (At least as I read it, and I hope I read it correctly.) This is in some ways like TOR+VoIP+automated off-site backups+more for the common man. Even with the problems and limitations, that is a pretty awesome goal.

    7. Re:He forgot something by kheldan · · Score: 1

      That's what you get for using your real name, pictures, and information on sites like Facebook.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    8. Re:He forgot something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "How, using technology available as of this month, can a pure wireless mesh network independent of the regulated Internet reach from Los Angeles to Tokyo, or even from Los Angeles to New York for that matter?"

      Well, we have line of sight from Alaska to Russia so I'm sure we can work something out. Let me send an email to Sarah P. I'll get back to you :)

    9. Re:He forgot something by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

      "Wires. That requires an external provider, either a private monopoly or the government. And of course that lets them tap the wire."

      I had to re-read the article to find that crucial piece of information as I was expecting SOME sort of explanation in that regard--instead, completely missing. WTF? I was expecting something along the lines of data transfer using the electrical grid (even so, shutting off the grid would achieve the same thing--disruption), but no...not a single word in the article discusses data transfer.

      Unless they have some alternative means of data transfer, that is to say something NOT using any existing hardware, this is all a bunch of bullshit. Complete, total bullshit.

      Remember the monitor on the wall in the 1984 movie "1984"-- that archaic, snowy CRT tube that watched your every move, with some greasy gnome at the other end? Considering this is all bullshit, what other purpose could it have? Freedom Box? Really?

    10. Re:He forgot something by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It could run an offload, though. Distributed cache. If your neighbour or your neighbour has what you want, you can get it from him. If not, ask nodes you can reach via the internet. Freenet does something like that, though with anti-tracking measures that will make all but the most paranoid of people feel safe.

    11. Re:He forgot something by Zerth · · Score: 1

      With line of sight, people have achieved 173 mile range with consumer hardware and recycled sat dishes. The driving distance is about 2777 miles, so you could probably make it in less than 20 hops, even if you had to detour substantially to reach places where people live.

      Add in some batshit crazy geeks with pro hardware and you could get some decent throughput.

      Crossing oceans directly isn't likely to happen, but if you don't mind latency, it is probably achievable with pro-grade equipment and some wacky route planning. Just nobody bothers when you have cable already laid.

    12. Re:He forgot something by Surt · · Score: 1

      There are very few places left in the world that are more than a mile from the next habitable place. Mesh to mesh will let you jump pretty much any national boundary, and you'll get stuck only when you reach the ocean.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    13. Re:He forgot something by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Amateur radio bands could do this. Of course, everybody has to get licensed. You could conceivably petition the FCC and similar organizations to open up a slot on say the 700 mHz band. You could do very low power mesh radio and get under the radar of the EMS spectrum licensing issues.

      None of these are terribly practical for very large scale systems, but it isn't technically impossible.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    14. Re:He forgot something by westlake · · Score: 1

      How, using technology available as of this month, can a pure wireless mesh network independent of the regulated Internet reach from Los Angeles to Tokyo, or even from Los Angeles to New York for that matter?

      How does the mesh network leap tall buildings, mighty rivers? How does it leap four blocks down the suburban street or a single mile of country road?

    15. Re:He forgot something by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 1

      Among other things. What it should be most is 1) open, and 2) encrypted. Open so that pretty much anything that may be imagined in the future can be tied in, and encrypted so that governments and commercial interests must have your permission for access to your data and info on what you do. The challenge is in negotiating the conflicts between these goals

    16. Re:He forgot something by pathological+liar · · Score: 1

      Are you European by chance? Habitable and inhabited aren't the same thing, there are a great many developed countries with isolated areas, Russia, the USA and Canada spring immediately to mind...

      I mean yeah, Windsor and Detroit will have no problem, but what about Toronto to Alert? New York to Barrow? Moscow to Uelen?

      If you're just talking about absolute routing between a country in general, and another country in general, then sure.... but if you're talking about reasonably complete coverage, not so much.

      The other problem is that any sort of large scale, long-distance mesh network is going to make freenet look zippy. ... maybe if they make the mesh medium-agnostic, IP over shortwave or something, routing shortcuts...

    17. Re:He forgot something by bl8n8r · · Score: 1

      Tapping the wires doesn't help when your stream is encrypted. Your stream is encrypted, isn't it? :)

      --
      boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
    18. Re:He forgot something by Burz · · Score: 1

      He mentioned encryption and seems to imply an anonymizing network layer, too (at least that's how his idea sounds to me) which of course cannot be tapped. Moglen is saying this new system should help with an Egypt-like scenario, and I know Tor was deployed to get some Egyptians back online during the riots. Problem is Tor is limited (in speed and mainly to the web) and interaction with authority nodes can be identified & blocked relatively easily.

      Lately I've been spreading the word about I2P, which is relatively fast, less centralized and is more general-purpose so that media transmission and P2P are realistic activities on this network. I would recommend that anyone concerned about privacy and centralization give it a try.

    19. Re:He forgot something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Encryption takes care of the tapping problem, but not the denial-of-service problem.

    20. Re:He forgot something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see a substantial mesh network in the cards at all for long distances unless some very wealthy people with lots of time on their hands are willing to sacrifice much for the good of many.

      Hope that your batshit crazy geeks are willing to provide the service for free, because pro hardware starts at 10k$ for the cheap stuff. Maybe the geeks will provide intercity routes for a toll fee. Try doing that without the government getting its paws in things.

      Low end hardware might be suitable for simple data and text. Maybe that's all the free-network needs to ever be. The more users online wanting to share images or other media, the less tolerable the speeds are going to be. OTOH this may lead to self-regulation: people who want the speed won't tolerate how slow it is, and might simply not participate.

      Plan for encryption, your neighbors might be as much or more interested in you than the the current faceless hops between your host and your destination host.

      I certainly like the idea of a free self-regulating self-routing adhoc wireless network, but I am not anywhere near as optimistic as some about the user experience. I imagine a state-of-nature requiring significantly more vigilance and upkeep on each individual user's end than our current experience with ISPs requires. I don't imagine a peace-and-brotherhood outcome. Commercial and government interests are going to get their roots in it regardless since the soil is available to everybody, because businesses and governments are also made up of people.

    21. Re:He forgot something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called having a separate, directional antenna for those long hops. Having shit standing in the way of that link will still be problematic, though.

    22. Re:He forgot something by mrogers · · Score: 1
      The goal isn't to liberate people from their ISPs - at least, not initially. Eben Moglen explained in a speech last year that the goal is to liberate people from cloud providers and social networking sites that would like to collect and sell their personal data.

      In the longer term, however, Freedom Boxes might also be useful for resisting wiretapping. In a post to the liberation tech mailing list (sorry, I can't link to the actual post since the archives are subscriber-only), Eben Moglen gave the following explanation:

      On the question, how can personal servers deal with network non-neutralities, the answer is by tunneling among themselves. So Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice live in different places, maybe different countries, and have different upstream connectivity providers. If Bob's Freedom Box notices that he can't connect to port X at address Y, the box opens a tunnel to Carol's box, through the encrypted "route" they share, and asks Carol's box to proxy the traffic. If Carol's can't do it, maybe Ted's can. Alice's freedom box, which is located inside a country with a national firewall, uses Bob, Carol, Ted, and a hundred more of her friends abroad to lift her over the national firewall many times a day.

      Clearly the same approach could be used to avoid surveillance as well as filtering. Now, of course, that still assumes your ISP allows you to have some kind of connectivity to some of your friends - NAT could be a major issue here, as other commenters have noted.

    23. Re:He forgot something by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Mesh also requires the cooperation of a lot of people, each of whom is taking a considerable risk. Take your example of freenet, for example. How many people are really willing to install freenet if they know that someone might use it (and their associated IP address) to download child porn? There is no way I would install it on my system ("I didn't actually download it myself, I run freenet" may or may not work in a court of law, but I would hate to have to find out). It might be pretty hard to set up a mesh network if the local government lets it be known that anyone found with the mesh client on their computers will be imprisoned.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    24. Re:He forgot something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If hackerspaces can get together to buy low to mid 6 figure buildings and mid 5 figure equipment to put in those buildings, I'm sure they can buy pro wireless hardware. Actually, there is one group around here that was too far from the DSLAM, so they all chipped in to buy right-of-way and put in their own fiber network, that ain't cheap. The hard part is placement.

    25. Re:He forgot something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have more hope hearing that hacker types are able to scrounge up that much money.

  8. err. what. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 2

    What the hell do these wall plugs attempt to achieve?

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    1. Re:err. what. by Lundse · · Score: 1

      Freedom.

      Or, in more detail, the possibility for everyone on the planet to join a communications network able to run any and all software and services - dirt cheap, outside the surveillance or control of any agent, regardless of their power or legal standing.

      Sort of a hobby project of Moglen's it appears...

      --
      IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
    2. Re:err. what. by sjvn · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here's my fuller story on what Moglen and company have in mind:

      Freedom Box: Freeing the Internet one Server at a time
      http://www.zdnet.com/blog/networking/freedom-box-freeing-the-internet-one-server-at-a-time/698

      The short version is that the idea is to make it possible for you to use the Internet as freely and privately as possible no matter what restrictions governments, businesses or ISPs have in mind.

      It still won't help if your government does an Egypt and pulls the plug, but short of that, it has real possibilities.

      Steven

    3. Re:err. what. by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      How would these wall plugs achieve freedom? I can understand if they only serve as a means of relaying data, but then they still rely on a bigger server to provide that data as they themselves do not have much storage and could in no way hold any meaningful databases. The problem is, if there is a bigger server they rely on to provide all that data then it's perfectly possible to render that server inaccessible and again the whole thing crumbles down.

    4. Re:err. what. by 517714 · · Score: 2

      What the hell do these wall plugs attempt to achieve?

      They will keep the Internet from leaking all over your carpets.

      --
      The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
    5. Re:err. what. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the short version: decentralize what people do on the web.

      social networking, backup, "network nuetrality protection", anonymous publishing, home network security, encrypted email, private voice communication.

      sounds reasonable, combo of TOR, pfsense, etc... but seems like he's missed the biggest threat- DNS depeering. I would really love to see distributed, decentralized DNS take hold.

    6. Re:err. what. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, there's now an official YouTube upload of Eben Moglen's Keynote speech at FOSDEM in Brussels a couple of weeks ago, which was all about this FreedomBox topic. Very enlightening and inspiring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BSLBvwyUEs

    7. Re:err. what. by Lundse · · Score: 1

      The plugs would hold your personal data (and maybe your friends, encrypted, for stability, safety, etc.).

      Some to be served to your own devices - email, documents, etc. (instead of keeping it in a cloud controlled, datamined and sold to those in power).

      Some to be served to friends - their own data, whatever you want to share in your network (and only there, unlike FB, et al). Think Diaspora servers, wiki's, forums, whatever...

      Whatever you want to share with the world - your own webpage (now entirely under your control), routing of Tor and similar traffic.

      Now think synergy - you have a device which enables you to share with your friends only. So it has a public key encryption system, and a lot of keys from people you actually know and trust. This is how we get the web of trust started; only this time, we win. With a few simple rules (if 10 of my friends trust someone 90%+, I trust him 80%+, and trust accumulating over time, whatever the details), we get a pretty global (http://media.successcreeations.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/FacebookGlobalConnections2010.png) network of trust, which can be used for encryption of mails, torrents, transactions, you name it.

      Hence, freedom.

      --
      IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
    8. Re:err. what. by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      The plugs would hold your personal data (and maybe your friends, encrypted, for stability, safety, etc.).

      But as I said, there ain't much storage space on those. And stuff like personal data have the tendency of accumulating over time. Especially if you also plan to store your e-mails in there too.

      With a few simple rules (if 10 of my friends trust someone 90%+, I trust him 80%+, and trust accumulating over time, whatever the details), we get a pretty global network of trust

      That doesn't sound too smart. It's a well-known fact that people trust the wrong people and that someone you trust 100% can still suddenly reveal to be something completely different than what you thought. Ergo, your "web of trust" ain't any more trustworthy than anything in the internet as-it-is.

    9. Re:err. what. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Badest botnet ever!

    10. Re:err. what. by Lundse · · Score: 1

      Regarding storage, then the plug would of course connect to a harddrive, if you wanted more storage. Maybe wirelessly...

      Re. the web of trust, then my rules were just an example. Better one have been, and will be, written. And maybe they should just be for suggestions. And when you do need to make an exchange with someone in Brazil from Denmark, the software will find the "smallest number of handshakes" and ask you if you trust friend X to trust, etc. etc.
      Just another example - the basic idea is we have each other's public keys. How much you want to trust who from there is up to you - but it will be a damn sight more trustworthy than most things on the web right now, I can assure you.

      --
      IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
  9. Re:Is it really rebuilding or using alternative te by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, this would be a security nightmare. Anarchy is fun!

  10. Uh, what? by astern · · Score: 2

    How will this stop whatever local govt exists from compelling the ILEC to give optical tap access?

    It won't.

    --
    If the world isn't beating a path to your door you're doing something wrong.
    1. Re:Uh, what? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Encryption can defeat that. The government could still send the police in to sieze the box with the keys on, but doing so is not very stealthy.

    2. Re:Uh, what? by Surt · · Score: 1

      A different article talked about peer to peer mesh OTA networking. It would be challenging (but not impossible) for big government to stomp on that. But certainly not as easy as intervening at the ILEC.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  11. Rebuild the Internet... how exactly? by yotto · · Score: 1

    The article (I read it! Okay, I skimmed) is light on details.

    How exactly is putting a server in your house rebuilding the Internet?

    How would one of these in every house in Egypt have kept them from turning off their Internet access?

    I am going out on a limb and assuming there's more here than a wall socket computer involved. Are these things supposed to talk to each other and build their own network? How will that cross oceans, little alone continents, little alone states, little alone... (etc)

    1. Re:Rebuild the Internet... how exactly? by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 3, Informative

      Having seen some of Eben's lectures, I recall his angle is that the problem is that companies/government agencies control the servers, and thus control your data and data on you. He want's people to run their own email/document/media/social networking services on platforms that network with each other rather than monolithic, centrally controlled servers (be they in private or public hands). The idea is not some much a different 'network', that's still in the hands of ISPs, but a different, decentralized approach to services that handle personal data etc.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    2. Re:Rebuild the Internet... how exactly? by kyuubiunl · · Score: 0

      Well, if it's IP over Power capable, it would indeed cross oceans and continents if distributed evenly enough in a short enough span

    3. Re:Rebuild the Internet... how exactly? by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 1

      Yes. Imagine a decentralized facebook where only you host your content, so that you can fully control it. How you keep crawlers from aggregating anyway is the problem. I've always thought that the main problem with anarchy is that it's too easy in such an environment for control systems to form. What's required is an active collection of gremlins who are constantly undermining the formation of control structures-- a series of Bugs Bunny's, who's job is to keep things just enough out of control.

    4. Re:Rebuild the Internet... how exactly? by dave562 · · Score: 1

      Is there any real solution to personalized data that does not involve some sort of monolithic trust entity? It seems to me like public key cryptography already solves most of the problems. A person just needs a USB key with all of their information on it. If a company / government / etc wants access to that information, they need to perform a key exchange with the individual. The individual can then audit data access by third parties.

      The "problem" with that approach is that it ends up being a mark of the beast type system. You lose anonymity in exchange for something close to a guarantee of exclusivity over your data.

    5. Re:Rebuild the Internet... how exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "little alone"? What does that mean?

    6. Re:Rebuild the Internet... how exactly? by MattBD · · Score: 1

      Potentially I guess these things could incorporate mesh networking, so you could build a network that way. Might not ensure you could stay connected to the wider web in circumstances like the recent events in Egypt, but certainly in cities it could keep everyone in contact internally - for instance, you could host a blog on your own device that covered the events, and anyone who could connect to the mesh network could read it that way.

    7. Re:Rebuild the Internet... how exactly? by riondluz · · Score: 1

      Man, you're reading my mind (and prob a legion of others as well)! Force ISP's to allow their customers to run servers as part of the net-neutrality deal. Then entice end-users with an OS (or appliance) that easily and safely runs those apps you describe (self-publishing via their own servers) that eliminates the 'centrality' of places like FB and the attendant vulnerabilities.
      Ubuntu, for instance, could roll out a distro that implements GPG/TLS etc.. in a user-friendly way; DYdns could provide IP, RBL checking to block spam; and, most intriguingly: private DNS servers for private sub-netting.
      Furthering decentralization, to me, is the next evolution of the Net; I hope this plug gets traction.

      --
      resist propaganda
  12. The plan by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Funny
    1. Make a bunch of tiny servers.
    2. ???
    3. Freedom!
    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    1. Re:The plan by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      2. encrypt everything.

      For some small value of freedom.

    2. Re:The plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cut power. The encrypted channel is now broken.

      Encrypted messages do nobody any good if NO parties can read them. "For some small value of freedom" indeed.

    3. Re:The plan by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

      The thing about controlling the population with bread and circuses is that if you take away the circuses people get pissed. If things are already so bad that the government is cutting power, you're going to have protestors on the street with or without Facebook and Twitter to help organize.

    4. Re:The plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You actually got that wrong. It's

      1: Make a bunch of tiny servers.

      2: Market them as somehow creating a free internet.

      3: Profit!

    5. Re:The plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1024 bit primary (not) cascading key encryption, with some modular mechanism allowing the cipher to be updated/changed in real time, then have random rolling updates (key changes) from local (trusted) nodes, in (local) mesh. Across larger areas trusted nodal update from multiple central (master) nodes that work as translators/routers between local mesh networks as each master net/node has a separate primary key and can only update it's own subordinate mesh(s) and receive updates from it's own trusted peers. The constant key changes and localization could prevent (with some refinement) the kind of eavesdropping and unwelcome government intervention we are increasingly running into. With an alternative transmission infrastructure/meshVPN or the like it could just work.

    6. Re:The plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell, my employer is buying (or has bought - lost track of timetable) off the shelf "appliances" to decrypt SSL in real time to be sure IP is not going out, and "inappropriate" sites not coming in. Standard encryption like SSL is a joke these days.

    7. Re:The plan by 517714 · · Score: 1

      Encryption doesn't buy freedom, someone (the right someone) decrypting on the other end does. Otherwise you might as well put your message in a can and bury it.

      --
      The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
    8. Re:The plan by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Those devices actually require you to install CA certs on your machines so that it can man in the middle the connections. SSL is not the method I would choose though.

    9. Re:The plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hah! My Freedom Box is plugged into my UPS!

    10. Re:The plan by mob)barley · · Score: 1

      2. Be owner of a company that makes tiny servers. 3. Financial Freedom!

  13. Just wifi? by jasno · · Score: 1

    I hope they're planning a modular approach for the communication links. Simply relying on one wireless technology leaves you vulnerable to very easily implemented(by govt or private operator) jamming.

    Something like hardwired connections, longwave/shortwave links, or even optical mixed-in with the wifi approach would make the system much more robust.

    --

    http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
    1. Re:Just wifi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not take an idea from Zune and automatically squirt data from cell phone to cell phone?

  14. Freedom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First 25 posts, no brilliant 'freedom fries' snark. Selective jingoism sensitivity. Typical moonbats.

  15. Default Deny security -- OH PRETTY PLEASE!!! by ka9dgx · · Score: 1

    This looks like a good time to plug the Default Deny security model, as this server might adopt a new Operating System.

    If a default deny environment, programs are never trusted, and the OS keeps them within the capabilities they are provided at runtime. This makes it possible to run untrusted code in a secure manner.

    Such a system would be MUCH more secure in the long run.

    It's also known as Capability bases security, principle of least privilege, etc.

    1. Re:Default Deny security -- OH PRETTY PLEASE!!! by tepples · · Score: 1

      This looks like a good time to plug the Default Deny security model

      OLPC and Android already do this: an application has only those capabilities specified in its installer. But a thorough implementation of default deny tempts manufacturers to deny the capabilities "start programs whose digital signature lacks a certificate chain to the device manufacturer" and "assign additional capabilities", even to the owner of a product.

    2. Re:Default Deny security -- OH PRETTY PLEASE!!! by ka9dgx · · Score: 1

      Not that kind of capabilities... the kind that are more granular, and assigned by the user, not the OS manufacturer.

      I was initially excited to learn that "capabilities" were included in the Android OS... then I learned how hobbled they really were... more like privilege flags then real capabilities.

  16. How will they communicate? by Gonoff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There will need to be some other way for them to network than through ISPs. They are the bottleneck. Perhaps, some sort of mesh network?

    Otherwise, Your ISP takes exception to a server running on your domestic network - despite the fact that a large amount of people on /. do just that. Even if they allow that, they can limit what goes across their wires - in times of emergency perhaps no encrypted traffic or HTTPS.

    You are going to either have to live in high density housing or figure out how to fit microwave relays all over the suburbs.

    --
    I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
    1. Re:How will they communicate? by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      I don't have anything to test with, but if you are doing NATing and forwarding, are there any ports that show up as open when you port scan the device?

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    2. Re:How will they communicate? by IrquiM · · Score: 1

      Somebody has to move to a land of the free.

      Seriously, I'll never move to US or anywhere else with as much anti-freedom clauses in the standard contracts as they have. As long as I don't run a business from my server, my ISP lets me do whatever I like, and I doubt they'd really care unless I was making a lot.

      --
      This is blinging
    3. Re:How will they communicate? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Ahh, here is the comment I wanted to make. If you want to increase freedom you need to address the issue of networks, not servers. Any old PC can be a server, even while it is doing other things. You can run your server in a virtual machine. You can even install IIS on Windows XP... which I think is a bad idea, but the point is that even with that rinky dink OS the vendor provides you with a web server. But without a network, no server is going to serve anything.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  17. They'll just overheat and brick by freshdressed · · Score: 2

    I have about 5 of the guru and sheeva plugs, they all eventually brick from bad power supplies or shutdown and when they overheat.

    1. Re:They'll just overheat and brick by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      So everyone says, at least about the Guru. Severe overheating issues.

    2. Re:They'll just overheat and brick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buy a $5 power supply. You'll probably even be able to fit it in the original enclosure.

      Putting a proper heatsink on the guruplug, if you want both GigE ports, is a bit harder to fit, though.

    3. Re:They'll just overheat and brick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      might be better to get a pandaboard instead with a perspex case , and ventilation holes.

    4. Re:They'll just overheat and brick by migla · · Score: 1

      The panda is a big expensive compared to the "plugs". I don't know how much the HDMI and whatever other unwanted things for a headless server cost. Haven't seen a panda-like "server board". That would be sweet. Not as the $29-for-everyone-plug, but for geeks who want a bit beefier "plug"...

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
  18. Distributed net; distributed admin = Real Freedom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now combine that idea with free software and the Distributed Administration Network, and you have end-to-end freedom.

  19. The "Freedom Box" isn't going to solve the problem by idontgno · · Score: 1

    singlehandedly, anyway.

    It's a teensy tiny computer. By itself, it does nothing.

    Nothing I've seen in this vision explicitly addresses the real freedom value proposition, and the real risk of the Internet as we know it: connectivity. In principle, connectivity and communications should be independent of governmental or commercial interference. And yet, at this point, Freedom Boxen talking to other Freedom Boxen is simply assumed.

    To be blunt, that's assuming away the real hard work. Computers independent of "Trusted Computing" and backdoors are old hat, thanks to the libre software movement. Networks independent of the same interference are where the work really needs to be done.

    The real risks to Freedom are in the net, not in the nodes. That's the part of the equation really controlled by the Powers That Be. And subversive communication has always been the real threat to oppression. Samizdat isn't about typewriters and printing presses, it's about distribution and dissemination.

    So, Mr. Moglen, what are we doing about allowing our Freedom Boxes to communicate without the permission of those who think they can control us? Pay particular attention to width of coverage (i.e., how many nodes a particular Freedom Box can talk to, directly or indirectly), undetectability, and confidentiality.

    --
    Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  20. Time to end the AUP by bobs666 · · Score: 0

    The problem is the Internet is fancy TV. At least until you want to pay for both ends. I guess you can use face book, as long as that lasts or gets to slow to use when we neglect 'Net Neutrality'.

    What we need are many ISP's that's called Capitalism. What we have are 1 or 2 ISP's that Feudalism. The way to make this happen is to define and allow roof top routers that by pass the last mile as we know it. 4G speeds seem adequate to me. If you want a hard line Its your money and there control over what packets you get. Just do not take away my access to the Town Square. You remember the Town Square, where our government was born.

    And we can then pick ISP's with out evil restrictions. IMHO The Web was designed for people to publish not just for TV.

    1. Re:Time to end the AUP by corbettw · · Score: 2

      What we need are many ISP's that's called Capitalism. What we have are 1 or 2 ISP's that Feudalism.

      You're wrong on so many points. First, depending on the market, there might be dozens of ISPs in any given area. Second, it all depends on the market, which is free-market capitalism.

      So quit your bitching or go start your own competing ISP. It's not that hard to do.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    2. Re:Time to end the AUP by natehoy · · Score: 2

      For dial-up, sure.

      For anything approaching useful speeds? Give me a break. The government regulates access to the poles, and in return for exclusive access to said poles the power company, telephone company, and cable company are bound by regulation to take government money and charge as much as they like, as long as enough of that money ends up in the pockets of the regulators.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    3. Re:Time to end the AUP by hedwards · · Score: 2

      I'm afraid I have to call bullshit on that. Sure there are several ISPs here, but they all use the same ISP to sell them the bandwidth, meaning that you end up paying more for the same service. You're likely to get better customer service, but at the end of the day you should, you're paying a lot more for service. Around here we've got Hughesnet, Comcast, Qwest and Clear. That's it. At this point any other ISP is going to have to contract with Qwest to provide service.

      And around here the link you put forward isn't available, which is the problem, there are good ISPs out there, just not in this region because Qwest has the regional monopoly over DSL service.

      In practice, which is why I called bullshit, you don't ever have more than 4 choices that are legitimately separate. And from my list you can pretty much strike Hughes and clear for not being sufficient.

    4. Re:Time to end the AUP by 517714 · · Score: 1

      "Depending on the market?" Are you kidding? I have the choice of Comcast cable, AT&T DSL, and Clear wireless. The cable and landline are monopolies granted by the city and state respectively, and the wireless, well, there is nothing that differentiates the "competition" since they are partners with the same prices, features, and towers who paid the federal government for the frequency. I believe my selections are pretty representative.

      First, I suppose that is Capitalism with a capital C, as in a government controlled by capital rather than with a lower case which is the economic version that is market driven under a Democratic Republic. Second, you did not have a second point, you reiterated your first point.

      --
      The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
    5. Re:Time to end the AUP by corbettw · · Score: 1

      "Depending on the market?" Are you kidding? I have the choice of Comcast cable, AT&T DSL, and Clear wireless.

      I'm in a different market. I have the choice of Time Warner, AT&T (DSL, Uverse, wireless), Verizon (DSL, Fios, wireless), Clear, Speakeasy, Earthlink, and numerous mom-and-pop companies. All of them have different plans with different features and different prices.

      Face it, just because you live in a crappy market doesn't mean the entire system is flawed. So like I said, quit your bitching and go start your own if you don't like the options available.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    6. Re:Time to end the AUP by tepples · · Score: 1

      Face it, just because you live in a crappy market doesn't mean the entire system is flawed.

      The system is flawed because it allows crappy markets to exist.

      So like I said, quit your bitching and go start your own if you don't like the options available.

      The system is flawed because it raises insurmountable entry barriers to going start one's own.

    7. Re:Time to end the AUP by sjames · · Score: 1

      Yes, because people are really clamoring for that 28.8!

      Sure, they offer DSL, but they are utterly dependent on the local Bell for that. No matter how many companies offer broadband, it's still effectively just 2 for any given area.

  21. Revolution by eddy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you're part of a revolution, being able to communicate digitally with your local peers is just as important as being able to communicate with someone at the other end of the world. Cheap plugs that build/connect a wireless mesh network could achieve that goal. I feel like most people in this thread aren't thinking big enough. The revolution isn't happening in the outback, think "central and crowded". The main problem might be getting one plug to cover enough area that it network can form at all, but should be a solvable problem. They'd also have to be configurable enough to be resilient to any cheap/directed attack (so not using a hard-coded frequency, whatever)

    --
    Belief is the currency of delusion.
  22. Large-scale NAT by tepples · · Score: 1

    We're out of IPv4 addresses, and not all ISPs yet offer IPv6. Good luck getting other people's Diaspora nodes to connect to your Diaspora node if your neighborhood is 250 customers behind one public IPv4 address.

  23. Some men are more capable than others by symbolset · · Score: 1

    And this man is special.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  24. Do it again by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    You want to decentralize the Internet?

    Break up the big telcos and ISPs.

    It's as simple as 1...2...Net Neutrality!

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  25. Re:Distributed net; distributed admin = Real Freed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude. That like recursively blows my mind.

  26. Re:Distributed net; distributed admin = Real Freed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not sure why you want to include DAN. i don't want nobody but me administering my 'freedombox'...that's the whole point!

  27. Internet layer 2? by EkriirkE · · Score: 1

    It may be nice that, if every house has one of these, the devices created a wireless or powerline ad-hoc network which would then be out of reach of any government agency for a kind of kill switch short of cutting power. Kind of like what OLPC envisioned. It'd be interesting to see the latency/hops in this kind of network. And before "OMG H@X" comes up, it shouldn't be any different than your already-conencted computer/router...

    --
    from 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    to 45 2F 6E 40 3C DF 10 71 4E 41 DF AA 25 7D 31 3F
  28. "Do you want some Freedom Fries with that?" by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    "Or a complete Freedom Menu? We are forbidden by law from offering a free Freedom Toy with the Freedom Menus for the kids, but for a ridiculously small surcharge, you get the Freedom Toys. But please note that the Freedom Menu Toys are not in fact free so we are not violating the law."

    First step in starting some wacky software campaign . . . choose a non-wacky sounding name . . . Freedom Box?

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  29. Powers delegated by Congress to the FCC by tepples · · Score: 1

    Well, FCC rules trump their contract. Their recent net neutrality findings, which were broadly criticized here, won't allow ISPs to discriminate against servers

    Provided that enforcing these rules on U.S. soil is within the powers delegated by Congress to the FCC. Otherwise, state law freedom of contract allows ISPs to discriminate all they want.

    1. Re:Powers delegated by Congress to the FCC by msauve · · Score: 1

      You haven't read the document which was conveniently linked, have you? The federal legal justification is covered in detail.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  30. The Slashdot effect by tepples · · Score: 2

    Text is nothing. [...] 25 friends

    Tell that to someone who just got tens of thousands of hits after having been linked from the front page of a site like Slashdot.org.

    1. Re:The Slashdot effect by melikamp · · Score: 1

      Well, may be we should pay a bit more so that providers can cache upstream as well as downstream. Yeah, sure, the current TOS are pretty unfriendly, but cable people are agnostic about the content in the end of the day. If most of their customers show an appetite for upstream, they will start packaging and selling upstream.

    2. Re:The Slashdot effect by mlts · · Score: 1

      Agnostic?

      The cable people want their subscribers to use their broadcasting whenever they can. It brings them money, it doesn't use their Internet pipes, and ensures them TV ad revenues. For every show someone watches on Hulu and not as a prime time or pay-per-view special, the cable companies don't get a good chunk of revenue.

      This is why cable companies drag their feet and wring their hands in front of Congress when their evil subscribers demand things like expanding their core/edge Internet structure to handle demands of current applications, or adding bandwidth and not additional fees or tiers.

    3. Re:The Slashdot effect by melikamp · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I wasn't clear: by cable guys I mean the guys who own Internet-carrying cables, not the cable TV. Even the ones who consolidate with content providers (like Comcast) will continue to sell pure Internet. Many tried doing otherwise (AOL) and we know how well it worked out for them. Cellphones actually prove my point: they HATE to sell you pure Internet now, and they drag their feet, but they are moving there inch by inch, whether they want it or not. You can buy a 3g USB stick today, with official open-source drivers, sign up with TMobile, and surf free.

  31. encryption? by MasaMuneCyrus · · Score: 1

    Since everyone's going to be hosting the internet on their own little wall plug dongle, couldn't you just make them all encrypt the traffic? At least you could encrypt it up to the final wall plug which sends it to whatever sever it's going to; in that case, it wouldn't be possible to see the original source of the traffic, just that whatever traffic that was ended up being sent to the server by whatever node in whatever house.

  32. I'm sold by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1

    I'll take two.

    --
    See that "Preview" button?
  33. FCC doesn't interpret the law; the courts do. by tepples · · Score: 1

    The federal legal justification is covered in detail.

    What the FCC thinks is its legal justification is covered in detail. Whether the courts will agree is another matter entirely.

    1. Re:FCC doesn't interpret the law; the courts do. by msauve · · Score: 1

      Well, since most ISPs also use FCC rules in order to convey their Internet services over public and private rights of way (riding along with services which are indisputably covered by FCC regulation, such as cable TV and telephone) without cost, the ISPs are caught in a dilemma - if the FCC can't regulate the Internet, then the ISPs will have to negotiate with a million different local government and private entities in order to carry Internet services over those rights of way. Somehow, I think they would like that even less.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  34. Need a fixed IP address by gr8_phk · · Score: 1

    Sure, I've wanted something like that for years. The problem is that we all need a fixed IP address so we can get to our server from anywhere, and so email can be sent directly to it P-to-P, and so our little OSS distributed facebook profile can be linked from outside (i.e. from our friends FB server).

    1. Re:Need a fixed IP address by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      https://www.dyndns.com/account/services/hosts/add.html
      I am sure many others out there as well.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
  35. Speakeasy allows servers by ODBOL · · Score: 1

    I use Speakeasy DSL service, in spite of the fact that it has less capacity than cable, because they don't have nastiness in the license. In particular, they allow servers. I run an HTTP server as a symbolic act, to share material with a few friends, and to test things (there's not enough capacity to use the server for anything substantially public). Speakeasy also allows me to share my connection (I run a free unprotected hotspot), and even offers to split the monthly bill between me and any neighbors I share with.

    --
    Mike O'Donnell http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~odonnell/
    1. Re:Speakeasy allows servers by linuxpyro · · Score: 1

      I seem to remember that they were one of the few (maybe the only ones?) who allowed servers. I didn't realize that they were still around, that seems pretty cool. And even if you don't have a lot of upload having a Web server handy can be helpful, if for nothing else than a simple text-only site and maybe posting pictures on message boards.

      --
      Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
    2. Re:Speakeasy allows servers by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      No, not the only ones. Our co-op does too.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  36. Really rebuilding the Internet by transporter_ii · · Score: 1

    Proposed solution would not rebuild the Net, it would work over it. What would be cool is if these boxes had Ethernet over power lines built in with intelligent peering. Everyone on the same leg of a electrical circuit automatically peers with others and it builds a network. Tricky part would be a "backbone" to connect segments not on the same electrical circuit that won't connect...and do so not using the Internet (or wireless)...and be able to do so with the hardware limitations of a plug in server.

    Everyone in an apartment building or with close neighbors could plug in a server and connect into the "grid," it really would bypass the Net. And speeds would be pretty darn good if the peer was close to you. Backbones, that's the killer weak spot.

    --
    Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
  37. The new birdboxes by biodata · · Score: 1

    If they came in a watertight box covered in solar panels and talked up a wireless mesh they could double as roofs for birdboxes and we could all have actually free internet as well as more places for birds to nest

    --
    Korma: Good
  38. Mandatory inspirational speech by sdguero · · Score: 1
  39. Topology by zrbyte · · Score: 1

    This is all fascinating. I even listened in to one of his lectures and things like Diaspora have always been appealing to me. However, what he actually proposes is changing the very topology of the net, changing the whole client server relationship and buildup, which kind of "evolved" as the internet grew. If this structure, topology can be changed in a... more peer to peer oriented fashion it would be an accomplishment equal to creating the internet itself. This gets those geek nerves pulsing doesn't it?

    1. Re:Topology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are still quite a few logistical problems that need solving before this will be viable (or even possible)

      Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these problems are reason to simply brush these ideas aside or anything. Quite the contrary actually, I feel these problems MUST be solved one way or another if we wish to keep the Internet out from under the control of inevitable power grabs by those who always seek more power over others.

      The most glaring problem I see however is a unique addressing scheme.
      Currently IP addresses must be centrally managed to assure everyone has a unique address.

      I suppose with a large enough name space, picking a random network number would be possible. Unfortunately even IPv6 might not be enough space for this to work viably!

      It would also be important to implement a method to prevent purposeful dual-assignment of addresses to prevent denial of service.
      However seeing as this is a problem we currently have with BGP, in that anyone can announce any router and raise this problem, it leads one to believe this is even harder to solve than the uniqueness problem.

      Once that is addressed (no pun intended), we will have to redesign some of our core services to be distributed and peer to peer.
      Things like DNS, routing protocols, and the like.

      It would also be nice to have a method to provide levels of trust to peers.
      I think we have this technology if we just use it correctly for this purpose.
      Clearly the central certificate authority method we use now is dysfunctional and meaningless. But we could have that problem fixed today if only every peer cared to. Most likely that technology would carry over with very little change.

      Last but not least is making everything run efficiently enough to be viable.
      There are a lot of lessons we can learn from the FreeNet protocols, Tors onion routing, and the available options for public key cryptology.

      It's all a bit overwhelming when you think about the details.
      But I do feel this is an absolute must.

      Using plug computers for a local area mesh network is a good start.
      Taking back the airwaves and using the lessons learned by hams would be one option to solve the long haul problems.

      It is also possible (maybe) if the currently telecom companies are made irrelevant enough, we can finally convince them the only way to stay involved at all is to provide 'dumb' pipes for our fully encrypted traffic, to provide backups to major long haul trunks.

      As you say, the very thought of the future of the Internet more than gets the geek nerves pumping. My only regret is that I won't be able to see the wonderful progress to these ends that will be forced in the next hundred years.

    2. Re:Topology by riondluz · · Score: 1

      It sure does! Image linux distros for 'comsumer consumption' whose install includes servers
      (https, smtp/tls, ....) that are sandboxed and enable the end-users to run their own 'facebook's or their own RSS feeds, etc... It would cut out the centralizers like facebook with no hit in functionality or performance; while improving privacy.
      The biggest feat it would accomplish would be forcing ISP's to permit customers to open up server ports. This would make the 'net-neutrality' outcomes a bit easier to reconcile.

      --
      resist propaganda
  40. Re:Distributed net; distributed admin = Real Freed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not on your box, but on the ones you access.
    Imagine internet, computers, and software, all with no singular points of control.

  41. Public mesh, private internet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want a city-wide mesh, put OpenWRT on your router and get rid of the wireless encryption. If you pay for internet, set up a proxy.

    Seriously, what has this guy actually done? Except point out the fact that everyone can have their own private server, which was already possible. The difficult part is how accessible the software is, that's why ubuntu was so successful. I mean, you need to ssh into those plug computers, I don't see the majority doing that.

  42. Re:The "Freedom Box" isn't going to solve the prob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are betraying your addiction to low latencies. This project is simply giving to the masses what most intermediate nix hackers already have at home - a personal net shard.

    The problem identified by Moglen is that most people will need help doing this properly. Once you have a shard, there is very little need to use the Internet for anything other than lightweight conversations or transmitting encrypted differentials to your crew. The diffs of even a busy set of gap'd nets rarely require more than a single external drive, and usually fits on a pocketful of USB keys.

    All this assumes you are a content producer or consumer. I have no idea what people attempting to use the net to replace meat space interactions are going to do in the future - that isn't content trading - it's advertising your tastiness to preds... As it is they all look like fat, wounded prey.

    Anyhow, if you aren't already using a gap'd shard to do your real work, then jumping consumables to a propagation point via dumb media you should really really really consider doing so. Just yesterday I was consulted on a potential firmware flash triggered via Web resulting in an instant brick'd drive for the client. I have yet to examine the metal, but the description of what happened was extremely disturbing.

  43. www.freedomboxfoundation.org by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out his new organization:

    www.freedomboxfoundation.org/

  44. Technology is not the problem by dave562 · · Score: 1

    Given the choice between consuming content about how to have a better society and government, or Facebook and sports, society has by and large decided that they want the latter. Having everyone running a server with some free software on it will not make the internet any better than it currently is. The utility of the internet is not being severely hampered or impeded by the government "watching every twitch of our fingers". Its utility is being diminished by the users failing to leverage it to its full potential.

    1. Re:Technology is not the problem by riondluz · · Score: 1

      Leveraging it to the full potential would entall forcing ISPs to allow clients to run servers. Doing so would accomplish two things: provide a balance to the net-neutrality argument and liberate peoples' dependency on sites like facebook; as their 'wall' would be internetworked directly from their own hosts. Just a matter of designing apps to do that. Where my hope would be that it would push for greater Linux adoption, having a (linux) device that does the same would be a welcome improvement to the info-society

      --
      resist propaganda
  45. lets see if i understand... by hitmark · · Score: 1

    what he wants to make is a tor/freenet node that is plug and play, that one can put between the in house network and the isp router and act as a net actvity proxy and decentralized and version tracking cache?

    This way, any page accessed is cached, dated and checksummed, so that if ever the main source "dies" a cached version can be grabbed anonymously and distributed as needed?

    --
    comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  46. AC-Paranoia thread!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    This thread is great. It's about distributing access, and all posts are by AC. Does it get more paranoid?

    Of course I had to post this as AC. You understand.

    1. Re:AC-Paranoia thread!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aluminum foil just isn't as good as tin.

  47. Netflix? Not with a 5 GB/mo cap by tepples · · Score: 1

    You can buy a 3g USB stick today, with official open-source drivers, sign up with TMobile, and surf free.

    But those who want to watch Netflix or keep games or other large applications up to date can't really use T-Mobile due to T-Mobile's 5 GB/mo cap. So they can choose from two providers: the cable company, and the phone company (or those who resell its service).

  48. Client and server defined by tepples · · Score: 1

    in a peer to peer network who is the server and who is the client?

    The side calling connect() is the client, and the side calling listen() is the server. It's the same reason that a terminal using the X11 protocol is called an X server: it listens for display connections from clients.

  49. Are Ireland and Great Britain any better? by tepples · · Score: 1

    sucks to be in the US :D

    I've read that Ireland and Great Britain are just as bad. How would you rate the ease and cost of immigration to industrialized countries in mainland Europe for a U.S. citizen who isn't yet fluent in a language other than English but is willing to learn?

    1. Re:Are Ireland and Great Britain any better? by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Then you read wrong, the UK has a much more vibrant ISP marketplace, and I've used several ISPs that not only were fine with servers but would give you a free static IP and unblock port 25 (incoming) on request.

    2. Re:Are Ireland and Great Britain any better? by Nursie · · Score: 1

      I think I mean incoming and outgoing, they'd just unblock port 25...

      They were also happy to add rDNS for me.

    3. Re:Are Ireland and Great Britain any better? by Picardo85 · · Score: 1

      "How would you rate the ease and cost of immigration to industrialized countries in mainland Europe for a U.S. citizen who isn't yet fluent in a language other than English but is willing to learn?" This is quite off topic but I'd say it's pretty easy to go to any country north of France where they actually speak anything but the local language (yeap i'm stereotyping here). In Finland where i come from we have quite a few international companies with english as the working language. I guess that goes for all major international companies in Europe. So if you got skills wanted for a position at a company in Europe i wouldn't say there'd be any problem migrating :)

    4. Re:Are Ireland and Great Britain any better? by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      In Finland where i come from we have quite a few international companies with english as the working language. I guess that goes for all major international companies in Europe. So if you got skills wanted for a position at a company in Europe i wouldn't say there'd be any problem migrating

      And I can bear witness to this.
      I don't speak Finnish (despite my best efforts at learning it, my best efforts at speaking/understanding it remain pathetic), but live and work in Finland. Most Finns speak far better English than my attempts at Finnish, and many speak better English than the typical Brit/Yank. In fact, I even changed job from one multinational in Finland to another multinational in Finland. More than 5 years resident in Finland with each of them, as a matter of fact. BTW, I previously lived and worked in North America (despite not being born there either), and migrated to Finland. The climate and taxes are "suboptimal" here, but the people and living conditions are good; overall, it's preferable to anywhere I've lived in the US, Canada, UK, etc.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  50. Moving costs money by tepples · · Score: 1

    Get a decent ISP.

    Moving to an area where a decent ISP offers service may cost tens of thousands of dollars. What is the best practice for affording that?

    1. Re:Moving costs money by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      Spend less time bitching on Slashdot and more time producing something.

  51. Freenet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What we need is a server with everyone running some kind of Freenet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenet) approach.

  52. Carrier-grade network address translation by tepples · · Score: 1

    Skype users with properly configured NAT

    We're out of IPv4 addresses. ISPs will start plopping residential customers on 10.x.x.x subnets, with 250 customers on each public IP.

    Look folks, down at the ISP's level it's all just packets. Up in the application level is where we say "client" or "server"

    IP has four layers: data link (OSI 1-2), IP (OSI 3), TCP/UDP (OSI 4), and application (OSI 5-7). Whether a packet is a TCP SYN or not is at the TCP layer, not the application layer. As I understand it, only the client sends SYNs, and only the server sends SYN-ACKs.

    When I notify Youtube that a new video is ready Youtube's client compulsively "downloads" my server's video to add to their ridiculous random collection.

    That would be true if YouTube used FTP PORT. In FTP PORT, the user agent is a client that connects to the well-known host to send filenames back and forth, and once a file transfer has started, the FTP server acts as a client that downloads the file from the user agent, which acts as a server. But YouTube uses HTTP, which acts like FTP PASV: the user agent is always the client and the well-known host is always the server. Most FTP clients that I've used that do not perform FXP use PASV exclusively.

  53. kill switch by bcrowell · · Score: 1

    Wires. That requires an external provider, either a private monopoly or the government. And of course that lets them tap the wire.

    You might be able to get around that by using encryption (if that's legal in your country and if the encryption is easy enough to use). But encryption isn't going to help you communicate if your government pulls the kill switch on the internet, as Egypt's dictatorship did on Jan. 28. Moglen's talk was on Feb. 5, so you'd think he'd mention that, but he never mentions Egypt once in the whole talk. It could easily happen in the U.S.

    1. Re:kill switch by melikamp · · Score: 1

      It could easily happen in the U.S.

      People keep saying that, but I just don't see corporations bending over like that in the US. Is the Fed going to order it? They cannot even stop people from running marijuana dispensaries in downtown San Francisco. Shutting down Internet in the US today amounts to shutting down commerce. I bet individual states will just jump at the opportunity, with Texas leading the way. Telling Comcast to cut the wires would do about as much good as telling Chevron to stop processing oil. Providing that service is their principal source of money and power. The response would be along the lines of "sue us while we work as usual".

  54. I don't get it by keith_nt4 · · Score: 1

    I read the article. I still have no idea what he's trying to achieve or how it would be achieved. With a court order or whatever other means the government could shut down comcast/charter/warner, at&t, verizon, sprint...as in "here's a court order, shut down internet access to your customers". That would be an extremely large number of americans right there. Everybody on those ISPs with a "freedom box" would effectively be shut off anyway. No access, no freedom box. So no, I don't get it. As long as there's two or three companies that are handing out the internet access for large a large percentage of people this won't really matter or protect anything.

    --
    "UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
    1. Re:I don't get it by Ja'Achan · · Score: 2

      That's not the point. From the article: "By contrast, with tens of thousands of individual encrypted servers, there would be no one place where a repressive government could find out who was publishing or reading “subversive” material." Basically, they can't just confiscate your server, and then also have the info of thousands of other people. They'd have to get warrants (or at least go door to door) to fetch each of those boxes. And if you live in a different country, getting your info would be even more difficult.

  55. Over whose last mile? by tepples · · Score: 1
    Anonymous Coward wrote:

    Then one savvy ISP discovers they can greatly increase revenue by allowing servers to run on the cheap

    And discovers that it has no access to the phone company's or cable company's last mile.

  56. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  57. Interesting, but needs to cut the cord by BillX · · Score: 1

    This is a fascinating idea: while I like the idea of running an always-on server for teh freedomz, I don't have a clear idea of what that entails (freenet? gnutella? anyone still using these?) or how many bytes of data / "bad things" being passed through my node would just get me disconnected by my ISP under a "no servers" clause or RIAA paranoia (neither us nor you knows how many naughty files are passing over your 4096-bit AES freedomware, but your $29 a month ain't worth the liability, click...). Just as importantly, the power consumption of an always-on server that may or may not even be being used is hard to justify. A more 'standardized' software suite and micropowered "plug in and forget" computer goes a long way. As for that last part...

    Ultimately this thing would have to take its activities off the ISP-dependent internet, full stop. To really be feasible, these freedomboxen would need to be coupled with inexpensive p2p (mesh networking) *hardware* as well. There are a few possible, if not ideal solutions:

    Unlicensed Wifi and wifi-alikes (microwave links), as others have pointed out. Typical ranges from 10s of meters (omni wifi indoors) to hundreds of km for the suitably dedicated (highly directional point-to-point antenna links). Several existing implementations and choices of ad-hoc routing protocols (AODV, etc.).

    Freespace optical links. Have a look at RONJA for a low-cost, open-source transceiver that provides 10Mbps duplex links over a km or more. Advantages: highly directional; more resistant to regulatory attack (no RF), high resistance to congestion even in extremely dense deployments. Disadvantages: Point-to-point only; more likely useful for backhaul between local onmidirectional meshes.

    WiMAX: High speed, long range, but license requirement and the cost of equipment ($thousands) mostly defeats the purpose.

    Kinky Stuff: HAMs and similar have successfully bounced signals off clouds/etc. using banks of IR LEDS, alongside plenty of RF-based solutions. How long until well-heeled geeks loft "low-cost" cubesats for emergency internet comms?

    --
    Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
    1. Re:Interesting, but needs to cut the cord by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kinky Stuff: HAMs and similar have successfully bounced signals off clouds/etc. using banks of IR LEDS, alongside plenty of RF-based solutions. How long until well-heeled geeks loft "low-cost" cubesats for emergency internet comms?

      How about solar-powered autonomous drones (or weather balloons) with radio relays, freespace optic uplink to broadcast radio converters, or just passive radio reflectors?

  58. Don't forget... by mswhippingboy · · Score: 1

    Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose - Kris Kristofferson

    --
    Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
  59. NO CONTRACT ISSUES..... by IHC+Navistar · · Score: 1

    What I don't understand is why users are posting comments that say running a plug server, for either personal or business use, will put you in violation of your ISP's contract. First of all, IT WON'T. The contract that ISPs have with everybody are unenforceable when it comes to plug servers. You are using your infrastructure, and their contracts do not apply to your electrical wiring. Period. The ISP contract takes over at the connection between the cable box and the modem. Your house wiring effectively becomes your own private network, and the contract is not enforceable upon your private network. This could become even more detrimental to the ISPs when people start using plug servers to communicate between private networks using electrical infrastructure, as you will not be using the ISP's network or infrastructure. Any contracts involving infrastructure that you own (i.e. electrical wiring), or is not owned and/or operated by the ISP is not enforceable under any contract that you may have with the ISP, as it will not be using any of their services or systems. Basically, this is a potential headache for ISPs, since they have absolutely no legal way of regulating it, or enforcing contracts on it.

    --
    Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
    1. Re:NO CONTRACT ISSUES..... by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      I think you could also use local wifi to bridge the gap between the power network.

      It's more like a mega-local-Intranet type routing system that can also go over the larger internet that anything to do with an ISP, in-fact it's the opposite of an ISP.

      Stick a bit of smart caching of content for various sources on there, with a bit of routing and if a website get's taken of the commercial net it can run on the people net, or may have been cached there.

      Could also run free-net, radio-stations, phone systems etc... by piggybacking power lines and over wi-fi.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    2. Re:NO CONTRACT ISSUES..... by keith_nt4 · · Score: 1

      Okay now I'm confused. No where either in Slashdot's summary or in the article itself does it say anything about ethernet-over-powerlines technology. All it says is that the device is a plug-it-in-and-forget-it "wall wart". I assumed you would run an ethernet cable from your router to the wall wart like the similar arm-based wall warts covered recently. But reading the article again it actually doesn't mention ethernet cabling (and the image of the guy holding the device doesn't seem to show any ports at the one side of the box anyway).

      Am i missing something?

      Even if it is some how long distance ethernet-over-power, which I doubt, seems like an up-stream provider would be necessary at some point. Right?

      --
      "UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
  60. Simple solution by celtic_hackr · · Score: 1

    Unplug them. Pull out the 120VAC to DC converter. Install a $25-50 Solar panel on your roof, or wherever you have Sol access. Power the Plug PC by straight DC. End of heat problems, or add a fan where the converter was..

    You could even add a modified UPS in the mix.

    Come on this is /., where's all the hacker, geek solutions?

    Pfft.

    Then again, TFA didn't even attempt to give a solution for how to bypass the ISPs, whose wire your traffic is going to flow over.
    It's a temporary solution at best. Until someone builds a new network that doesn't rely on easily switched of wires. Until enough people start running their own wireless networks we are all at the mercy of those who would control.

  61. I2P could be 'Internet3', actually by Burz · · Score: 2

    The long name is "Invisible Internet Project" and the I2P acronym was chosen to signal that its P2P-friendly. Technically the software is called a "router" because it routes as it anonymizes, much like Tor.

    Fundamentally I2P is a network transport layer (like IP, whereas Tor is more like TCP) that comes with a few applications to handle email, web and torrents. You can get plugins for it now that provide things like a distributed filesystem (a port of Tahoe-LAFS) on top of which distributed websites (called deepsites) are being built.

    I know that I2P has weathered some attacks. I think it can do this mainly because the network is less centralized than Tor (there are no directory or other 'authorities' programmed into I2P).

    geti2p.net

  62. Misunderstanding or greed... by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

    Methinks people who propose this do not understand the concept of networking, and how such 'nodes' need upstream nodes else the network becomes utterly and irreversibly saturated.

    Either that, or they're simply greedy: like the people who latched onto revolutionary figures like Marx and Che to push their own agenda to selfish deeds (not that Marx and Che were exactly what you'd call humanitarians), these people are pushing utopic bullshit for their own financial/social gain.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  63. and now a minor tangent by F34nor · · Score: 1

    Why not also give them a wireless network with a distributed mesh network?

    Here is my vision al la Vernor Vinge's military network takeover in Rainbow's end http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_End combined with TerraNet's peer to peer cell phones. http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/terranet-creates-peer-to-peer-cellphone-network-20070912/

    You have an event like Haiti or Egypt or the unthinkable and you fly a plane over the site and rain thousands of solar powered network nodes that can create a backbone, route voip, circuit switched voice, twitter, or what ever. The bandwidth, frequency processing power etc can all be cost driven but if you pre-seeded the society with network access points, cell phones, and the like with a compatible hardware model it would scale better.

    Government tries to turn off cell phones? Fuck em. Government kills the ISPs? just link the chain to a satellite or a border. AT&T makes you contemplate suicide? Just route through your neighbor's link to the tower.

    Now we through in computing power to boot. What do we get a ad-hoc, mesh peer to peer, internet with distributed computing. The only way Egypt could have blocked that is with some serious military jamming. LoS?

  64. Background by uss_valiant · · Score: 1

    Eben Moglen on taking back control over your data, privacy and freedom in the age of cloud services.

    Summary:
    - Don't accept any cloud services that come with free spying, free built-in man in the middle attack (Facebook as the worst offender, GMail and many other services mentioned as other examples)
    - Thus avoid lock-in, avoid anyone limiting your mobility and freedom, stop being exploited and spied upon.
    - Instead of centralized services use P2P (or federated services), protected by strong encryption
    - A $29.90 plug-in, power-supply-sized appliance (the "freedom box") providing these services, and much more (VoIP telephony, TOR, etc.) at home.

    1. Freedom in the cloud: http://www.isoc-ny.org/?p=1338
    (talk from February 2010)
    2. How We Can Be the Silver Lining of the Cloud: http://penta.debconf.org/dc10_schedule/events/641.en.html
    (talk from August 2010)

    (I wrote this summary back in August 2010, so it's somewhat outdated.)

  65. Watch Eben Moglen's FOSDEM keynote by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 3, Informative

    I was in the audience when he explained the concept. The comments and the article I've seen so far does it no justice. Just watch the video.

    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
  66. What?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, excuse me, but my ISP (and most, if not all, others in Europe) could not care less what I do with my connection. Running a server (or whatever) is explicitly stated to be normal and acceptable use.

    Perhaps you should change to a less crappy ISP? One that actually delivers what you pay for?

  67. Not just some random Columbia Law Guy by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

    'A Columbia law professor in Manhattan, Eben Moglen, [...]'

    For those who don't know (really?), Eben Moglen has a leading role in drafting the GPL licenses and in enforcing them (or had), see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/enforcing-gpl.html

    He's also the head and founder of the Software Freedom Law Center which has the FSF as one of its clients. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Moglen

    SFLC had a podcast, the Software Freedom Law Show, hosted by (among other) Bradley M. Kuhn, the former Executive Director of the FSF and currently on the board of directors.

    In other words, Moglen is deeply involved with free software community organizations.

  68. Lawyers! by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    No one else except lawyers would craft such an obdurate, meaningless phrase as ', insofar as such person is so engaged, '. Seriously; what value (other than billable value) does that little snippet add?

  69. Re:Is it really rebuilding or using alternative te by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Unless a lot of people have these things they won't provide redundancy at all. What is the range on a good wifi AP? 30m indoors?

    Instead he should concentrate on building a pluggable Tor box. Basically a box that you can connect to your hotel room's lan port or bridge to the cafe's wifi and it encrypts everything for you transparently. I can see a real market for something like that - zero config privacy for travellers, but also for people wanting to avoid spying and censorship.

    Tor is fairly responsive these days, almost to the point where I am tempted to do all surfing through it just to avoid the UK government spying.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  70. It might work ... IF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If these little boxes have wifi, can talk to each other and are running freenet. otherwise they're just another place where your information can be tapped

  71. Decentralized portable cloud computing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've always been interested in the concept of portable cloud computing since reading the SF trilogy Red Mars.

    Basically everyone has a PDA/Tablet, which are all wirelessly connected, and the information on the network is stored via a cloud across all devices, and computing power as well.

    Not sure how far along that sort of technology is, but that anonymous internet thing, the "Open freenet", seems to be that kind of software, so if we had the devices linked wirelessly, either the Plug Servers or some kind of tablet or iphone equivalent, running that kind of thing...

    Interesting times..

  72. Re:The "Freedom Box" isn't going to solve the prob by Risen888 · · Score: 1

    An ad-hoc mesh network does all that, and it does it for free. It requires a critical mass of nodes, but short of cutting the power, it's unkillable.

    You got a better idea?

    --
    Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
  73. I answered that by tepples · · Score: 1

    And then an ISP will see the niche of a more "liberal" aproach

    I responded to that in another comment.

  74. A lot of us don't happen to live in Europe by tepples · · Score: 1

    my ISP (and most, if not all, others in Europe)

    Please see my reply in another comment.

  75. What about the net in internet? by formfeed · · Score: 1
    That idea is great for distributing content more democratically so it can' t be "disappeared".

    But what about the net-part? All they have to do is tell 3 major providers to stop their DSL services.

    That's the Egyptian option.
    The American option is to tell the providers, that they might be liable for users' behavior and they will come up with some acceptable content restrictions all by themselves.