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King Wants To Sell Out Ham Radio
An anonymous reader writes "Rep. Peter King (R-NY), Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, has introduced HR 607, the 'Broadband for First Responders Act of 2011,' which has been referred to the House Energy and Commerce Committee (which handles telecommunications legislation). The bill would create a nationwide Public Safety broadband network using the so-called 'D-Block' of spectrum in the 700 MHz range for Public Safety use. But to pay for it, he wants to sell off 420-440 MHz, currently heavily used by the military, satellites and Amateur Radio operators."
Laugh at the old Ham guys all you want. When a real disaster hits and the infrastructure goes down, I bet you'll be going to them and asking for their help.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Here's a better one
I thought we already had frequencies that were designated for emergency broadcast?
If they are using it so heavily, surely they won't give it up easily, no?
This guy keeps getting smarter and smarter.
Peter King has struck me as one of those guys who can rationalize away everything he does. Sure, to some people, it would seem like creating a Public Safety network by hobbling the military's usage of the 420-440 MHz block would seem highly inconsistent, but not so for Peter King. Same thing with his current hearings on the how American Muslims are becoming radicalized. Some people would think that it would be highly hypocritical of him to open public hearings on radicalism in Islam considering that for decades, he was a supporter and backer of the Irish Republican Army, a terrorist organization that killed 3500 people in 3 decades and were involved with Libyan terrorists funded by the Gaddafi regime. But nope, Peter King sees no hypocrisy at work.
What an awful person.
My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
Well that could be fun considering a lot of the HAM radio spectrum blocks are internationally recognized and used. Go ahead, sell it off, give it to someone else to use, I'm just north of your border, and my government hasn't proposed selling off that spectrum (yet). So I'm sure the private purchases of that spectrum will just LOVE when we all continue to key up on those bands (or the satellites already in orbit continue to transmit in to your borders on those frequencies).
Someone needs to inform this congressman of the realities of how spectrum allocation works.
First who would want to buy a spectrum that is polluted with Ham Radio Operators noise. You'd have to take all that equipment away to get them to not use it.
Second why add this to a Broadband for First responders bill when it will mess with our existing Military infrastructure? It says to make it so they can pay for the Broadband but forcing the Military to change their equipment so someone can buy this little spectrum doesn't sound like it will make money.
Yeah, having a good answer to the standard who's-going-to-stop-me question -- "You and what army?" -- always helps ;) The army usually gets their way in congress. I found one site that listed near that spectrum:
Since it's King pushing this, I can only assume that he believes that ham radio operators are secretly recruiting for al-Qaeda?
He's just being nice so my real father won't freeze him in carbonite and sell him for spice.
I'm from DC and I have many years of experience translating political statements. What he really means is "I'm currently looking for a large corporation I can kick this too and get perks in the form of lobbying, parties, comps, and a job after my work here looting the government is done. Whether it's a good thing is of little concern for me actually."
Tiger Blooded Bi-Winning Machine
PAVE-PAWS uses 435Mhz. In fact, there are regulations regarding ham use, power output, and directionality of transmissions in that frequency range by ham radio operators within 150 miles of those installations.
No. They will not auction that off. Peter King will sit down and STFU.
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
Just how big a slice out of all available bandwidth for Hams are we talking about here?
We've seen time and time again that the public-safety services are not themselves able to provide sufficient communications operators to handle an emergency, and that they aren't able to improvise communications systems to meet the needs of an emergency that takes out infrastructure. That's what hams are for. One of the things they do with that spectrum is build and practice their own systems, so that in an emergency they are ready.
And let's not forget all of the technical advances that come from Amateur Radio, and its unique uses in education - how else can individuals work with space communications, software-defined-radio, etc. All of the other options are company-controlled.
In California, we already have a problem on those frequencies due to the PAVE-PAWS system at Beale Air Force Base out by Yuba City. Surprisingly, it can receive hams in the San Francisco Bay area - on a UHF band where I wouldn't expect that distance - and we have had to reduce power on most of the repeaters in that band to protect the military's space-warning services. If the band were to be sold, it would not be available for commercial users in much of California.
But we have a right to be sick of all of the folks who look at our frequencies with dollar signs in their eyes.
Bruce Perens.
420-440 Mhz are already used for emergency, most all of the air sirens around cities are in this band (ok, you still have some VHF receivers). Also there are some radar installations that start around 450 Mhz that will completely over power anything above 415 Mhz.
I hear this a lot, that Ham radio is useful in disasters, but can anyone give some examples?
Is it useful to someone trapped in an earthquake zone for them to be able to contact someone outside their area? Surely nowadays everything around the world is pretty well monitored, isn't it? I'm think of things like the big tsunami a few years back, and the Australian flooding which we in the USA saw pretty much every detail of.
Aren't the circumstances where Ham radio is useful and no other form of modern communication technology would work also the same circumstances where nobody could help anyway?
I have friends who are into Ham radio, and I think it's kind of a neat hobby, but isn't the disaster recovery aspect of it kind of overstated?
That being said, selling off spectrum that's allocated internationally sounds like a non-starter. It's just not going to happen.
Putting moderation advice in your
Erm, looks like I grabbed the wrong spectrum. 420-440, not 400-420. Let's see: I found a different page that lists "satellites, Pave Paws radar systems, radio beacons, military and Amateur Radio operators." I double checked PAVE PAWS (the radar system designed to detect and track ICBMs and satellites), and indeed, it's 435mhz. The radar installations are bloody huge, so I hope that if this passes, they can be reconfigured.
He's just being nice so my real father won't freeze him in carbonite and sell him for spice.
I'm a ham operator, although I haven't been active on the air for a long time, so my information may be out of date. This doesn't seem like a huge crisis to me. Hams currently have 2 meters and 70 cm. This proposal would take away most of 70 cm, but there would still be a lot of bandwidth left in there. Considering that the hobby is basically dying out, I'm not sure it would be totally rational to keep allocating the same amount of spectrum to hams indefinitely. Is there any evidence that in a hurricane or earthquake, the remaining 10 MHz of bandwidth would be inadequate for emergency communications?
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whatever it is King is proposing, it is wrong. He is just wrong about everything. Oppose him at all costs. Seriously.
http://www.acetonestudio.com
it's here.
Bruce Perens.
If you are a registered Ham Radio operator, this site has a quick-and-easy form to generate a letter to your representative in congress to oppose the bill.
Some active RFID tags operate at 433 MHz.
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Yep. Amateurs understand they are "secondary users" of this spectrum. And it's always a good idea to defer to primary users who have attack helicopters and radio-direction-finding equipment... ;)
Just junk food for thought...
I just want to say one thing: What really gets my goat is knowing that most of us assert that Rep. Peter King is extremely satanic. If you disagree with my claim that even if King is not conscious of the inner reason for his hypnopompic insights, he's in violation of the Geneva Conventions, then read no further. There is no inconsistency here; his insinuations are geared toward the continuation of social stratification under the rubric of "tradition". Funny, that was the same term that King's co-conspirators once used to perpetuate inaccurate and dangerous beliefs about male-female relationships.
I, hardheaded cynic that I am, must emphasize this because the facts as I see them simply do not support the false but widely accepted notion that divine ichor flows through King's veins. I do not wish to evaluate faddism here, though I think that King wants all of us to believe that he has the authority to issue licenses for practicing commercialism. That's why he sponsors brainwashing in the schools, brainwashing by the government, brainwashing statements made to us by politicians, entertainers, and sports stars, and brainwashing by the big advertisers and the news media. He drops the names of famous people whenever possible. That makes King sound smarter than he really is and obscures the fact that someone once said to me, "I am sincerely galled that King is so intent on turning once-flourishing neighborhoods into zones of violence, decay, and moral disregard." This phrase struck me so forcefully that I have often used it since.
King is almost unique among spineless, morally questionable Machiavellians in that he espouses an ostentatious view of reality and a defense of lethargic incendiarism. But there is a further-reaching implication: His ideological colors may have changed over the years. Nevertheless, King's core principle has remained the same: to exercise both subtlety and thoroughness in managing both the news and the entertainment that gets presented to us. If you don't believe me then note that King's sympathizers get a thrill out of protesting. They have no idea what causes they're fighting for or against. For them, going down to the local protest, carrying a sign, hanging out with King, and meeting some other juvenile psychopaths is merely a social event. They're not even aware that it is not news that King has been floating rumors that national-security interests can and should be sidestepped whenever his personal interests are at stake. What speaks volumes, though, is that if you were to tell King that whenever I ponder over the meanings and implications of his predatory homilies, I feel little peace, he'd just pull his security blanket a little tighter around himself and refuse to come out and deal with the real world.
I won't mince my words: The more I study religion, the more I am convinced that King has never worshipped anything but himself. As long as I live, I will be shouting this truth from rooftops and doing everything I can to test the assumptions that underlie King's scare tactics. By opting for the easy, short-term, feel-good path, he will create problems that our grandchildren will have to live with one day. Why is that relevant to this letter? Because as that last sentence suggests, he descends from a long line of virulent slaves to fashion who like to jawbone aimlessly. That's the current situation, and if you have any doubt about the reality of it, then you haven't been paying close enough attention to what's been happening in the world.
I might be able to forgive King, but only if he promises never again to generate an epidemic of corruption and social unrest. My point may be made clearer by use of an allegorical tale. Suppose a hypothetical group of three people is standing in a room. One of those people realizes that it's time for an armed uprising against King. Another goes on and on about King's flagitious cock-and-bull stories. But the third can't understand why King seems eager to follow the hastily dyed banner of clericalism. In this hypothetical situation, it s
Ham radio is one of the last difficult to suppress communication mediums and for some reason an attempt to 'sell' this space just strikes me as not a good for public thing.
Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
"Rep. Peter King (R-NY), Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, has introduced HR 607, the 'Broadband for First Responders Act of 2011,' which has been referred to the House Energy and Commerce Committee (which handles telecommunications legislation).
King? Well I didn't vote for ya...
... there will be more money for the usual pork.
Hams that want to help in emergencies are supposed to take raining as well.
All amateur radio operators reading about this should be incensed. This is a major grab of our bands for public safety and they already have a very generous portion of the radio spectrum and don't need to steal ours. They already have 450-470 as public service bands and these are only used for that in major metro areas along with 700-800 MHz.
In 90% of the country public safety uses VHF high and low bands (150 and 30 Mhz, respectively) and that is adequate for their needs. The same is true for amateur radio with the exception of 700-800 MHz, where VHF is primarily used throughout the country and 440 MHz is mostly used in areas of higher urban/suburban density. In these areas, the 2 meter bands are saturated with large, old repeaters and the 440 MHz band is the most vital and dynamic band around, it's where the more technically savvy types tend to hang out, whereas the older systems on 2 meters are usually older folks talking about what they are dying of. Due to saturation of 2 meter repeaters there is no opportunity for growth or change there, if someone wants to put up a new system then 440 MHz band may be their only choice. Also, most of the dinosaur 2 meter machines are multi-receive site networks, and the remote receivers are linked in the 420-430 MHz band. The other service that would be mostly impacted is Amateur Television (ATV) which is mostly in the 420-430 MHz band, that would be completely eliminated.
There is a nice website set up that will automatically generate a letter of objection, tailored to your local state representative automatically. It's nice and easy you just enter your callsign and it looks it up and generates an auto-addressed letter ready to print and sign. The link is here. Calling all hams! This is really important, please do it today!!
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
Have fun when your fancy digital trunking box can't communicate with any of the other services you need to
He also wants to sell off 450-470 MHz. Among other uses, this is the band for consumer FRS radios. Just try telling the public that they aren't allowed to use their walkie-talkies anymore...
Looks like someone's spent too much time cooped up in the ham shack and maybe should spend more time learning about how to be around people.
Screw your "Red Dawn" scenario roleplay bullshit, I have REAL emergencies to attend to, where people REALLY die when things fuck up.
I thought that was why hams worked with the Red Cross for non-emergecny health and welfare communications. The EMS guys are busy looking for bodies to save and don't really care if Aunt Betty wants to tell her family that she's in a shelter and is ok. Even digital trunking radios have capacity limitations, so wouldn't you rather have non-essential communications going out over a separate radio network?
The hams know much more about signal propagation and antenna design than any EMS worker ever needs to know. If the earthquake takes out your repeater tower, you're going to be begging the hams to get communication out over HF since your nice digital trunking handheld wont reach around the corner without the repeater.
Which raises the question, "Who is Peter King".
Oh look, according to Wikipedia, he's worried about the radicalization of American Muslims.
That's a nice bit of cognitive dissonance from someone who supported the IRA.
In your dreams, masturbator boy.
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
You can't sensibly ask "How much of all available bandwidth for Hams are we talking about?", because all amateur bands have very different propagation characteristics, so a percentage figure isn't informative.
The 70cm band that he wants to sell off is one of the very best local area amateur community bands, recognized worldwide. The 2m band below it and the 23cm band above it don't have the same properties at all.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Good title to the topic, Erroneous. You are WRONG, the US 70 cm band is 420.000 - 449.995 MHz with some exceptions near the Canadian border. Look it up.
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
The ARRL has a page set up against HR-607 as well as sample letters. Apparently, if you send them to Chwat & Co (info on previous link(s)), they will hand-deliver it to Congressional office.
As always, the real question is what industry is lobbying King to get this spectrum. Telecom? It's a dick move, but you gotta know someone is paying good money to get this done.
The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains
We will finally be able to utilize BPL (Broadband Over Power Lines) without the ham operators complaining.
Famous last words. You're being overconfident and it will bite you in the ass someday. Mark my words.
No, we don't. For broadcast, we rely on existing commercial broadcast stations, which is why they test the Emergency Alert System from time to time.
The problem H.R.607 is attempting to address is the fact that police, firemen, and first responders of all stripes don't have a common way to communicate; their frequencies are spread throughout the spectrum. The attempt is to establish the so-called "D Block", 758-763 and 788-793 MHz, as a unified, interoperable public safety band to fix this (among other repairs). The part to which people object is Sec. 207(d)(1), which reads,
AUCTION- Not later than 10 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the paired electromagnetic spectrum bands of 420-440 megahertz and 450-470 megahertz recovered as a result of the report and order required under subsection (c) shall be auctioned off by the Federal Communications Commission through a system of competitive bidding meeting the requirements of section 309 of the Communications Act of 1934.
In other words, the bill proposes to fund the transition by selling off this spectrum; the people who have been using this spectrum (since shortly after World War II, I might add) are, quite reasonably, upset.
I'm not a HAM, but from the sounds of things I'd prefer to see you die in one of the "real emergencies" that makes you think you're Billy Badass.
I'd love to be there when "they" tell Rep. King that. It will probably go more like "STFD and STFU!" Hahaha.
Take it to the scene? Are you talking about a car-wreck or a natural disaster? A large earthquake could have a 200 square mile "scene", and may involve emergency personnel from across the country, each with their own disparate radio system that doesn't interoperate with the local agencies. Even in my local area there are a number of non-interoperable EMS radio systems, complicating disaster communications.
How do I know this? Local ARES meetings where the hams meet with local agencies to help define and coordinate their roles. Many of the members work for EMS services as EMT's, firemen, dispatches, etc. It seems that emergency service providers in my area don't reject volunteer disaster communications help - perhaps the thought of hundreds of thousands of people without power and fresh water (many of them suddenly homeless with no where to go) makes EMS providers think that just because their firetrucks can talk to each other, there might be other disaster communication needs. Only 30% of my department's firefighters even live in my city, so there won't be much immediate help to supplement on-duty firefighters, there may be less than 600 firefighters on-hand to support 700,000 citizens (and another few hundred thousand commuter workers trapped in the city).
Rather than badmouthing those that try to help, why not put them to work - organize meetings and find ways that they can help cover gaps in your communication. If power is out, cell towers are down, how will someone in a remote area let you know he needs help? If you think hams get in your way in a disaster, wait until disaster victims crowd your fire station trying to get health and welfare information for them and their family members.
Even my NERT training talked about the role that hams can play in a large disaster. EMS can't be everywhere, and when normal communication channels are down, the average citizen needs some way to contact EMS when there's a problem. (though my city is unique in that there are still old-fashioned fire department call boxes on many street corners)
...And the govt shuts the Internet and public mobile networks down during the U.S.A's impending period of unrest, Ham radio will be the only other way to communicate. And what better than to use the term "First Responders" (newspeak for "People Who Respond To Terrorist Attacks"), therefore bringing the legislation in under the veil of anti-terrorism. And of course, anyone opposing the bill would by implication NOT be supportive of anti-terror measures which in our current disgraceful political climate is effectively the new taboo.
Or, if you will allow me to remove my tinfoil hat for a moment, AT BEST, this is a bill by which Republicans seek to remove the ability for the citizenship to communicate in the event of an "emergency". Not good. Not good at all.
I've never met a real "professional in emergency services" who is so angry at people volunteering help - but I guess there's always one. I guess you've never been involved in a large scale disaster, particularly not outside the US. I'm sure you don't need a ham helping you out at a car crash a mile from the city centre, and anyone too eager to help can be asked nicely to move on and leave space. But for large scale disasters in the US, where multiple records and official acknowledgement of ham assistance exists, what do you say?
Now, imagine you were to move outside your comfortable city centre and decide to start practicing the middle of nowhere. You find your equipment has developed a fault. No, worse - your wonderful van of blach box tech is neck-deep in water. Who exactly are you going to turn to?
I think you're probably in your early to mid 20s. You have no notion of the spirit of US independence and self-sufficiency which built the nation. You're probably scared of the notion that people try to look after themselves and support their own community. You lean on big, centralised, uniform and very young structures. You long for freedom to be taken away because you hate that others might enjoy what you couldn't handle anyway.
Oh - it goes without saying that I'm a ham. And a physician of 15 years. Both these talents have enabled me to save lives. Catch up, boy.
I am a "real professional" I work on an ambulance, I have an extensive background in search and rescue, and I'm a ham radio operator.
I have amazed the military, the local police forces, and the head of disaster services for our province with what I can do on ham radio, things they can't do on their multi-million dollar comm systems when they're working properly. In a disaster, when all the repeaters that are required for the fancy digital radios stop working, emergency services always come back to the hams.
Your truck is a good first step in emergency preparedness, but there's never a guarantee it will work as planned, or that it can get to where you need it, or that you won't need it in more than one location at the same time. One mobile repeater won't cover the site of a large scale disaster, and outside responding agencies may not even be able to use it.
The only "holier-than-thou I-know-everything" types are the ones who think they are infaliable and could never require any outside assistance. If you are truly involved in emergency services I suggest you go back to your most basic introductory class where they discuss knowing your limitations, operating within them, and not being afraid to call for help when you actually need it. This is part of every single course I have ever seen for every emergency service qualification, it's tragic that many people forget it, because it's simple stuff like that that costs lives, sometimes the victims, and often the responders.
Which wouldn't be a good thing for everyone involved. Look what happened to that guy that ran him over.
2X2L calling CQ. Isn't there anyone on the air? Isn't there anyone on the air? Isn't there.... anyone?
Emergency communication is important, but that's really not the only reason for amateur radio. Access to these bands is a great way for people, both young and old, to be able to experiment with electronics. A lot of innovations in communication have come from hams, frequency modulation is a good example. Many experienced engineers have gotten their start messing with radio gear.
Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
Give me a break. A large proportion of terrorists these days are Muslim, and claim to be motivated by their faith. This is a simple fact. If King wants to investigate the ramifications flowing from this as regards US homeland security, that doesn't add up to an "anti-Islamic hate campaign". If you want everyone to turn a blind eye to what a tiny but dangerous faction of the Muslim community is doing, I think you're crazy.
You've never met a real "professional in emergency service" so angry at volunteers because, simply, the poster is not one. He's a loserboy jerking off to kiddie scat porn in his overweight mama's basement . Pay no attention to him as he whacks his microscopic weenie in the darkness.
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
(Posting AC because I am quite involved in this particular issue)
You are correct about the DoD not wanting to give up their spectrum, and Congress sees it right now as a valuable asset that can be sold to commercial provides. There have been a number of spectrum occupancy studies performed over the last few years that point out that the DoD spectrum is significantly less utilized (in terms of occupancy) than the national average, and particularly compared to commercial spectrum.
Therefore, the commercial companies are arguing that they should be able to purchase some of this spectrum from the DoD because they can make better use of it than the DoD does, and the government would also get several tens of billions of dollars in it's bank account.
Just because someone designs a receiver (as a TV is) that is *poorly* designed or built, so that it is affected by "out-of-band" signals (eg Amateur Radio transmissions) does not mean that the Amateur (or owner of another transmitter) is at fault. There are many examples of radio design where there is an assumption that poor / cheap design is countered by the remote possibility of a nearby and legal 'interference'.
Looking at space, radio, science and computing from a 'down-under' amateur enthusiast perspective.
Everyone loves to mention value of amateur radio when disasters strike (and yes this non-govt, non-centralized infrastructure of wireless communications is difficult to take out). What I see is a much more serious blow and that is removing the wireless "playground" for techies and nerds to do their thing. OK so many of these guys don't spend much time with girls but it is the hands-on experience of applying theory to practice, trying some different kind of radio configuration, or simply seeing what works/what doesn't work.
Besides Marconi or Armstrong, countless engineers and other technical professionals acquired useful skills through bold experimentation to either push the envelope to develop new technologies, knowing how to read schematics and work on systems to get a reasonable paying job instead minimal wage at a retail store, or from past personal experience will know better to not accidently take down entire comm system of their employer (although it sometimes still happens).
If we trash RF spectrum for techies to play with, we stymied personal development in wireless technologies. Not that it would be the end of everything but it will become more difficult for someone to enter that field.
Another scary aspect is this proposal has got to be the dumbest thing ever. Part 90 users are fuming as they are having to narrowband then whammo! They gotta dump all their 450MHz gear and infrastructure, then have to start from the ground up on 700MHz. I really wonder what kind of people we have making such decisions, like they have no competent advisors.
Now that you got me ranting about stuff, I will add only reason to move all PS agencies to 700MHz is because it is easier to organize on MS Excel. What we have here is a failure of policy makers grasping the physics of the situation.
For years we've been hammered with "govt is bad" and "regulation is bad" and FCC being a govt agency that does regulation they inherently have two strikes as the bad guy. Then as this whole jihad against govt spending little agencies like FCC are being further reduced (look at actual fed budget numbers, you will see FCC along with NASA, EPA, Dept of Education take a 16% slice of the pie, but the big slices is never discussed). So it is not surprising FCC lacks those with technical know-how to properly advise policy makers.
Along with other FCC mischief is the approval of mobile broadband by Lightspeed adjacent to GPS freq (there is actually intense meetings at fed agencies in Wash DC about how to deal with this).
So be careful before getting on the bandwagon about reducing govt spending and privatizing everything, look at the rest of budget pie instead of that 16% slice. You may not like the result and it will not do much in overall spending.
mfwright@batnet.com
Yep, there is no way this will pass because the military uses it, and we all know military trumps all.
Thanks for your insight. Now go take your meds, little guy.
Heh. I think this representative has to be high to think that anyone would actually pay money to buy such a narrow band. Even if you could get everybody off the band (which isn't likely given that it's wide open for HAM use internationally according to the ITU), the band is only 20 MHz wide. I mean, that's less than the width of a single GSM band in a single direction. That's narrower than a single 802.11 channel. Who wants a band that narrow? What practical use could such a small band have on the open market today, other than penny ante uses like pagers for restaurants, wireless microphones, or legacy analog 2-way voice? Pretty much anybody who could make use of a band that narrow already has spectrum allocation, and pretty much everybody looking for bandwidth right now is looking for larger blocks.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Today we have just discussed that right wing parties, rarely acted pro people, and even when they did, they end up damaging them in the long run.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2030288&cid=35437634
a lot of people provided a lot of defenses, justifications, this and that in defense of them. but behold - just another anti-people move, this time totally negligent and uncaring about the consequences of SELLING off a resource that PEOPLE are using. (not to mention military)
YOUR resource, being sold to private parties. the justification seems reasonable as always - 'but we will provide a emergency band with funds'.
the simple question below, would never be answered properly by these people :
why are you not taxing the rich, to whom you are giving tax breaks over and over even when the society is in severe distress, while poor keeps paying tax without being able to dodge it, but selling a resource that belongs to PEOPLE.
let me summarize you what's going on : he is the whore of certain private interests, who are interested in buying those bands, and with their order, he is coming up with this great plan to fund something that is seemingly going to be helpful to people, by selling off what belongs to people.
Read radical news here
You know, the one known as the "Muslim Brotherhood". With one Sayyid Qutb as spiritual leader.
Okay, honest question - I don't know much about Ham radio. But the article says they're selling rights to a particular spectrum - but is this the only part of the spectrum available for amateur operators?
I swear I'm not trolling, or trying to minimize the impact. I understand it might require changing broadcast gear, etc., but this wouldn't seem to be an existential threat to ham operators, merely a hassle because you have to move to new frequencies. Or is there something intrinsically better about the specific frequencies in question (420-440 MhZ) which makes them particularly well-suited to amateur radio broadcasts, to the point that hams couldn't operate elsewhere?
A couple issues.
First off, if you're a ham and you've invested in gear for a particular band, and that band gets sold off... Guess what? Your gear's now nearly worthless. "Moving to new frequencies" means "buying new gear", unless you have gear that already supports that band. And there's nothing in this deal about a new chunk of spectrum being allocated to hams to replace 440.
Second, yes, it's just one chunk of spectrum. But the problem is this isn't the only thing something like this has happened. If chunks of amateur spectrum continue to be taken away, at some point there will be nothing left.
Third: different wavelengths have different benefits. I don't remember all the details but I know the longer wavelengths (10 meters, etc.) allow you do do things like atmospheric propagation to get a signal to the other side of the world. Shorter wavelengths (and, hence, higher frequencies) IIRC deal better with local obstacles, and you can get more data through a signal (more bandwidth)
Bow-ties are cool.
I'm 26. I'm not old.
Well, I can't just call you "man"
Bow-ties are cool.
That's not the issue. The government doesn't like ad hoc communications that don't go through proper channels. *cough*.
It's too much like P2P
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
It's called an ARM (Anti Radiation Missile). You don't want to be radiating when the anti radiation missile is launched and those guys with the guns have them. You don't mess with the millitary. They do things like throw you in a jail cell and then lose the jail cell.
Unless this funds replacement of all the licensed users equipment, hams, and police, fire etc. And takes into account treaty restrictions for the use (420-430 MHz is already contentious near the north / Canadian border with some restrictions) this is a non-starter. But the BIG BIG one is Satellite use of the bands. You can't bop over to Radio Shack and get a spare transceiver or transponder for an alternate frequency and send jimmy to the electronics shed to install it. So that is a HUGE expense to replace.
...
So sure allocate some of the public interest wireless use spectrum that used to be TV spectrum over to public interest and emergency responders, but taking the 440 band from HAM use and alternate emergency services and satellite use is just wrong and costly. If they do this I want my brand new unused (and all my old) 440 gear replaced as part of the auction requirements. I am sitting on about 8 thousand dollars in just my shack and car (and motorcycle) at the moment. And I'll be upset and it will affect my voting pattern
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
Possibly fourth: Would it not also mess up interoperability with amateur radio operators in other countries? (My father-in-law keeps trying to suck me into the dark underworld of his hobbies, especially amateur radio.)
One might ask the same about birds. What ARE birds? We just don't know.
It will not matter because the sole cause of HAM Radio operators is to take-charge of relaying information durring EMERGENCIES in where the existing infrastructure has failed catastrophically.
King isn't doing a bad thing: he's basically telling these legislatively-retarded "amatures" to put-away their durable analog equipment and use the existing digital equipment until that fails: then go back to using the analog equipment when the spectrum is free.
Comprehend? Don't eat with your hands until you are out of dishware. Don't drink piss until you are out of water. Don't Mary your mother until you're cousins aren't available. Don't whipe your ass with your righting hand when your left hand is still available, unless you're an Odinist too Tyre'd to remember which is your left hand in the Mir'or.
I guess you HAM Radio operators will need to return to watching real digital pornography rather than ASCII porn that you've invented?
Yay for Mr. King: and his IRA account of freedomb foighters mayking their wurr to planes of Iraqqis.
It won't affect any amateurs outside of the USA. However the commercial operators who end up on that band in the US may find a fair amount of non USA amateurs pointing Yagis in their direction and whacking 1500W at them with 10dB gain.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
just wait for them to trot this old saw to justify
Would you please sign in so I can add you to my hate list? That's where everyone who feels the need to be "special" and use a different font for no apparent reason goes.
Isn't this a hole they want to plug in the security scope of things?
I just had this idea flash by - imagined a post-apocalyptic world where people ripped out their internet infrastructure in a fit of religious frenzy -- and amateur radio operators built a network out of people in cars with telegraph keys connected to their car horns - and a map as to where to drive to in order to repeat the last message.
I really should get out more.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Just for clarity for people that know as much about ham as I do (nothing hehe), the code test that Bruce Perens was referring to was a morse code test. I assume that you needed to pass a morse code test to get a license. When I saw code and software in the same sentence, my brain didn't make the leap to 'morse'.
One key advantage of this band is that it allows for the three services to coordinate and communicate together on it. Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Services (RACES) and Military Affiliate Radio Stations (MARS) stations can act as liaison stations with government and military rescue operatives in normal instances.In case of a disaster the FCC can choose to allow these different groups to talk directly. The one required part of that is a common frequency range - each group has radios in the 420-450 band that allows them to tune directly to each other's area, instead of having to listen on one frequency and talk on another.
For short-range disaster coordination, this band is a rare and special one.
The ones in New Hampshire? I'm in the seacoast area.
This is the same King holding hearings on Muslim extremists.
I'd have thought for fighting Muslims he'd want more ham.
Hams are not all 'old'. (I would submit that your paradigm is old.)
Looking at space, radio, science and computing from a 'down-under' amateur enthusiast perspective.
Just keep the gear and if SHTF, fire it back up. If shit has hit the fan, then the equipment that uses the band won't be working anyway. you could just hop back on it. and if everyone does the same thing you'll be able to use it just like you have been.
Oh Crap, I'm an optimist.....
satellite is to big to take way bandwith from in less you want NFL ST , live evnets back halls, Some RSN's, comcast HITS to go a way.
>> Peter King will sit down and STFU.
Oh, if only we could be so lucky. I, for one, am not quite that optimistic.
- ------ Go 'til ya know.
He is also a flaming hypocrite.
King is a long time supporter of the Provisional IRA. He has raised funds to support the Provos. Both the British and US governments labeled the Provos a terrorist organization. But King calls them "freedom fighters," of course. And now, King is holding hearings into the terror "threat" posed by American Muslims.
Pure bigotry. It's the same stupid crap that got Japanese Americans struck into internment camps during WW II.
You forgot radio homing missiles. Somehow I feel Hams might have a problem with those.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
you can use this resource if you doubt his words.
http://hams.mapmash.com/hammap.php
there are 46 in our little midwestern town of 9000 people. That, when I think about it, seems just a little crowded! ;)
Many Ham Radio people seems like complaining about HR 607, if HAM, CB radio people does not oppose so much, Public Safety can have Digital Secure wireless device which can send video, access to internet. and this bill HR 607 will put several billion $ to US treasury.
HAM radio and CB people together already have more frequency spectrum than Public Safety. Ham , CB frequency were assigned to them, not given to them many years ago, when there were no internet , or cell phone, smart phone. and the time, most police cars did not even have a two way radio.
look at Public Safety Alliance video to see why we need to pass HR 607.
http://www.psafirst.org/
They can. The military is executive branch, not legislative. Congress is not in their chain of command.
I used to live a few miles from Beale Air Force Base (location of one of the PAVE-PAWS installations) back during the early 80's, when the Cold War was still very real. I had a military ID (surviving son of an officer who died in uniform) which allowed me access to the base for medical and PX privileges; I also had a couple of friends on base who were MPs (military police). They told me about a senator who had visited the base at one point and was curious about that big ol' building with the 200-foot-high "stop signs" on the side. Around that building on the tarmac is a yellow painted line and a red painted line. If you cross the yellow line without permission you can be arrested. If you crossed the red line without permission you can be shot, right there on the spot (PAVE-PAWS was just barely below Cheyenne Mountain in importance for missile detection and defense). Said senator started strolling that direction, right over the yellow line. He was told to get back on the other side; he responded with "it's okay, I'm a senator". Then he walked across the red line.
Yes, the MPs would have been within their rights to shoot him, right then and there, with no further warning or need for permission from their superiors. Their standing orders allow for that. They would not have been prosecuted. Instead they physically dragged him back across the line and held him at gunpoint and lectured him about the reality of civilians (and yes, a senator IS a civilian) on a military base and that they had meant it when they had briefed the senator about the red lines.
Now, the above story is hearsay, but the MPs in question were not the kind of people to tell fish-stories, and other base personnel whom I knew confirmed that there had been a ruckus during the senator's visit that had something to do with PAVE-PAWS. But the point is that the military DOES have certain prerogatives, and operation of PAVE-PAWS is pretty damned high on the list. Essentially, stripping the military of 435MHz would be a cabinet-level thing, as an awful lot of national defense and air traffic monitoring depends upon that band. The phrase "for national defense" as a way to do an end run around normal process is overused, but in the case of ballistic missile defense (and North Korea having demonstrated nuclear weapons and very close to achieving orbit), I understand why the military would strenuously object to anything that interfered with that mission.
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
Remember what happened to 11 meters?
cr_mccarty@earthlink.net