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King Wants To Sell Out Ham Radio
An anonymous reader writes "Rep. Peter King (R-NY), Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, has introduced HR 607, the 'Broadband for First Responders Act of 2011,' which has been referred to the House Energy and Commerce Committee (which handles telecommunications legislation). The bill would create a nationwide Public Safety broadband network using the so-called 'D-Block' of spectrum in the 700 MHz range for Public Safety use. But to pay for it, he wants to sell off 420-440 MHz, currently heavily used by the military, satellites and Amateur Radio operators."
Laugh at the old Ham guys all you want. When a real disaster hits and the infrastructure goes down, I bet you'll be going to them and asking for their help.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
If they are using it so heavily, surely they won't give it up easily, no?
This guy keeps getting smarter and smarter.
Peter King has struck me as one of those guys who can rationalize away everything he does. Sure, to some people, it would seem like creating a Public Safety network by hobbling the military's usage of the 420-440 MHz block would seem highly inconsistent, but not so for Peter King. Same thing with his current hearings on the how American Muslims are becoming radicalized. Some people would think that it would be highly hypocritical of him to open public hearings on radicalism in Islam considering that for decades, he was a supporter and backer of the Irish Republican Army, a terrorist organization that killed 3500 people in 3 decades and were involved with Libyan terrorists funded by the Gaddafi regime. But nope, Peter King sees no hypocrisy at work.
What an awful person.
My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
Well that could be fun considering a lot of the HAM radio spectrum blocks are internationally recognized and used. Go ahead, sell it off, give it to someone else to use, I'm just north of your border, and my government hasn't proposed selling off that spectrum (yet). So I'm sure the private purchases of that spectrum will just LOVE when we all continue to key up on those bands (or the satellites already in orbit continue to transmit in to your borders on those frequencies).
Someone needs to inform this congressman of the realities of how spectrum allocation works.
First who would want to buy a spectrum that is polluted with Ham Radio Operators noise. You'd have to take all that equipment away to get them to not use it.
Second why add this to a Broadband for First responders bill when it will mess with our existing Military infrastructure? It says to make it so they can pay for the Broadband but forcing the Military to change their equipment so someone can buy this little spectrum doesn't sound like it will make money.
Yeah, having a good answer to the standard who's-going-to-stop-me question -- "You and what army?" -- always helps ;) The army usually gets their way in congress. I found one site that listed near that spectrum:
Since it's King pushing this, I can only assume that he believes that ham radio operators are secretly recruiting for al-Qaeda?
He's just being nice so my real father won't freeze him in carbonite and sell him for spice.
I'm from DC and I have many years of experience translating political statements. What he really means is "I'm currently looking for a large corporation I can kick this too and get perks in the form of lobbying, parties, comps, and a job after my work here looting the government is done. Whether it's a good thing is of little concern for me actually."
Tiger Blooded Bi-Winning Machine
PAVE-PAWS uses 435Mhz. In fact, there are regulations regarding ham use, power output, and directionality of transmissions in that frequency range by ham radio operators within 150 miles of those installations.
No. They will not auction that off. Peter King will sit down and STFU.
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
We've seen time and time again that the public-safety services are not themselves able to provide sufficient communications operators to handle an emergency, and that they aren't able to improvise communications systems to meet the needs of an emergency that takes out infrastructure. That's what hams are for. One of the things they do with that spectrum is build and practice their own systems, so that in an emergency they are ready.
And let's not forget all of the technical advances that come from Amateur Radio, and its unique uses in education - how else can individuals work with space communications, software-defined-radio, etc. All of the other options are company-controlled.
In California, we already have a problem on those frequencies due to the PAVE-PAWS system at Beale Air Force Base out by Yuba City. Surprisingly, it can receive hams in the San Francisco Bay area - on a UHF band where I wouldn't expect that distance - and we have had to reduce power on most of the repeaters in that band to protect the military's space-warning services. If the band were to be sold, it would not be available for commercial users in much of California.
But we have a right to be sick of all of the folks who look at our frequencies with dollar signs in their eyes.
Bruce Perens.
Erm, looks like I grabbed the wrong spectrum. 420-440, not 400-420. Let's see: I found a different page that lists "satellites, Pave Paws radar systems, radio beacons, military and Amateur Radio operators." I double checked PAVE PAWS (the radar system designed to detect and track ICBMs and satellites), and indeed, it's 435mhz. The radar installations are bloody huge, so I hope that if this passes, they can be reconfigured.
He's just being nice so my real father won't freeze him in carbonite and sell him for spice.
I'm a ham operator, although I haven't been active on the air for a long time, so my information may be out of date. This doesn't seem like a huge crisis to me. Hams currently have 2 meters and 70 cm. This proposal would take away most of 70 cm, but there would still be a lot of bandwidth left in there. Considering that the hobby is basically dying out, I'm not sure it would be totally rational to keep allocating the same amount of spectrum to hams indefinitely. Is there any evidence that in a hurricane or earthquake, the remaining 10 MHz of bandwidth would be inadequate for emergency communications?
Find free books.
whatever it is King is proposing, it is wrong. He is just wrong about everything. Oppose him at all costs. Seriously.
http://www.acetonestudio.com
Here's an example:
http://redcrossnw.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/amateur-radio-provides-lifeline-during-disaster/
You could, y'know, use a fucking search engine and answer the question yourself, but then you wouldn't get a chance to be a belittling piece of shit on /.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
it's here.
Bruce Perens.
I hear this a lot, that Ham radio is useful in disasters, but can anyone give some examples?
I live in an area that's prone to flooding, this year especially. Every year, local hams provide the communications and logistics for sandbagging operations. A few years ago, there was also a chemical spill and some guys I know ended up acting as go-betweens for the police and fire department as well. They were put on the radio because of their experience.
On another note, a lot of hams are involved in storm spotting. Granted, there's not a lot they can do other than report but sometimes it does give people enough warning to get out of the way of a tornado.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
You ask a lot of questions.
We'll pick Katrina for an example. ARRL members swung into action and delivered the only real communications after phone went down and sat dishes were blown into surrounding counties. But this is a big example, smaller ones are equally as important when a tornado or hurricane just dropped by.
It's a hobby, and hams take things seriously with battery packs, survival gear, links into local emergency services, and knowledge of what works, what doesn't, and why.
Think of hams as radio hackers. Some are heroes, others are hobbyiests, some are both.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
When the Chinese, Chile and Indian Ocean quakes happened, Ham was the only ways to get data out of some areas.
Same goes for coordination during Hurricane Frances, 9/11, 2003 North America blackout and Hurricane Katrina.
If you are a registered Ham Radio operator, this site has a quick-and-easy form to generate a letter to your representative in congress to oppose the bill.
Some active RFID tags operate at 433 MHz.
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Yep. Amateurs understand they are "secondary users" of this spectrum. And it's always a good idea to defer to primary users who have attack helicopters and radio-direction-finding equipment... ;)
Just junk food for thought...
Ham radio is one of the last difficult to suppress communication mediums and for some reason an attempt to 'sell' this space just strikes me as not a good for public thing.
Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
You could, y'know, use a fucking search engine and answer the question yourself, but then you wouldn't get a chance to be a belittling piece of shit on /.
Hey pot, I don't think you and kettle have been formally introduced yet.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
"Rep. Peter King (R-NY), Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, has introduced HR 607, the 'Broadband for First Responders Act of 2011,' which has been referred to the House Energy and Commerce Committee (which handles telecommunications legislation).
King? Well I didn't vote for ya...
The usefulness of ham radio operators during disasters is anything but overstated.
Follow this link -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_emergency_communications -- and read paragraphs 4, 5 and 6.
I was in a natural disaster a while ago where pretty much all communications went down (power was out, phone poles knocked down, taking out Internet connections and landlines, cell towers offline or overloaded) except radio stations and HAM. The HAM guys relayed their message to a HAM operator at the radio station who would broadcast requests for help.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
While not a disaster (usually!), I sometimes participate in athletic events that span large rural areas that have spotty or nonexistent cell phone coverage.
The ham radio guys step in to provide communications support and help coordinate emergency assistance when needed.
Here's a few of those events:
http://www.therelay.com/re_credits.htm
http://tahoeamateurradio.com/dethride.htm
http://hoodtocoast.com/
All amateur radio operators reading about this should be incensed. This is a major grab of our bands for public safety and they already have a very generous portion of the radio spectrum and don't need to steal ours. They already have 450-470 as public service bands and these are only used for that in major metro areas along with 700-800 MHz.
In 90% of the country public safety uses VHF high and low bands (150 and 30 Mhz, respectively) and that is adequate for their needs. The same is true for amateur radio with the exception of 700-800 MHz, where VHF is primarily used throughout the country and 440 MHz is mostly used in areas of higher urban/suburban density. In these areas, the 2 meter bands are saturated with large, old repeaters and the 440 MHz band is the most vital and dynamic band around, it's where the more technically savvy types tend to hang out, whereas the older systems on 2 meters are usually older folks talking about what they are dying of. Due to saturation of 2 meter repeaters there is no opportunity for growth or change there, if someone wants to put up a new system then 440 MHz band may be their only choice. Also, most of the dinosaur 2 meter machines are multi-receive site networks, and the remote receivers are linked in the 420-430 MHz band. The other service that would be mostly impacted is Amateur Television (ATV) which is mostly in the 420-430 MHz band, that would be completely eliminated.
There is a nice website set up that will automatically generate a letter of objection, tailored to your local state representative automatically. It's nice and easy you just enter your callsign and it looks it up and generates an auto-addressed letter ready to print and sign. The link is here. Calling all hams! This is really important, please do it today!!
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
Not necessarily. See this Wiki article for some recent examples http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_emergency_communications. The main thing is that even in the U.S. it's possible to lose cell phone and land line communications over large swaths of territory quickly depending on the emergency. Amateur radio operators have groups who intentionally train to step up with equipment and their own expertise to fill the communication void that can be created when the main forms of communication go down. You can also check out ARES at http://ares.org/ for more information. Emergency trained ham operators also often have training in severe weather spotting (tornado, etc) and basic first aid training. Those interested often participate in training on how to coordinate large amounts of communication and large numbers of different groups effectively with the ability to pass priority information faster than updates. All in all, when things are rough, these folks quickly and quietly step up, help get the job done, and then go back to their own (not their parents' :P) basement.
A few years ago, there was also a chemical spill and some guys I know ended up acting as go-betweens for the police and fire department as well. They were put on the radio because of their experience.
They were put on the radio because police and fire departments have been buying incompatible coms equipment for years.
After the clusterfuck that was the 9/11 reponse, there has been a concerted push to get law enforcement, fire, EMS, military, and government all working on the same wavelength.
That's pretty much the entire point of this bill.
Obviously selling off part of the HAM spectrum is a stupid idea, but his goal of getting ALL responders onto one wavelength is long overdue.
Of course, once you put all the responders onto an encrypted channels in the 700MHz range, amateur radio will no longer be able to help.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
I live in Northern New York where there isn't even cell phone coverage. In 1999 there was an Ice Storm that put most people in 3 counties without power and phone for SEVERAL WEEKS in the winter time. There was no way for emergency services to communicate from even town to town because of the terrain and the reliance on repeaters. I sat in a firehouse one town over for 2 weeks with my rig and relayed information from ambulance to ambulance and town to town. This included communications for departments like the state police. You would be amazed how well prepared we were, and how unprepared your average government agency is. In fact we are now routinely called to participate in disaster training exercises because of that storm. Hams are an integral part of emergency communications where I live. Losing 70cm would suck.
neorush
He also wants to sell off 450-470 MHz. Among other uses, this is the band for consumer FRS radios. Just try telling the public that they aren't allowed to use their walkie-talkies anymore...
Screw your "Red Dawn" scenario roleplay bullshit, I have REAL emergencies to attend to, where people REALLY die when things fuck up.
I thought that was why hams worked with the Red Cross for non-emergecny health and welfare communications. The EMS guys are busy looking for bodies to save and don't really care if Aunt Betty wants to tell her family that she's in a shelter and is ok. Even digital trunking radios have capacity limitations, so wouldn't you rather have non-essential communications going out over a separate radio network?
The hams know much more about signal propagation and antenna design than any EMS worker ever needs to know. If the earthquake takes out your repeater tower, you're going to be begging the hams to get communication out over HF since your nice digital trunking handheld wont reach around the corner without the repeater.
I'll tell you what's useful in disaster situations:
Food, and water. You exchange some food and water for the third essential element in life: Blowjobs.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
Well, I can't give you names or refer you to news stories, but I have talked to people that were relaying messages in and out of the gulf coast areas hit by Katrina. It was mostly names, phone numbers and "I'm alive" messages to someone far enough out where the phones were working, but it was important to the people directly affected.
Also, how many police, fire, red cross people have the capability to put their radio net back together after something like that? The HAM guys can help coordinate action. I have seen antennas made from barbed wire, top rail of chain link fence, all kinds of crazy things, so one guy in his car could function as the control point for a net of people with hand held radios.
Most of the time, they are not on the news, because they are the people working to make things better, and not the people needing help. If you are not injured, grieving, or complaining about something, you are not of interest to the news media.
Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
You can't sensibly ask "How much of all available bandwidth for Hams are we talking about?", because all amateur bands have very different propagation characteristics, so a percentage figure isn't informative.
The 70cm band that he wants to sell off is one of the very best local area amateur community bands, recognized worldwide. The 2m band below it and the 23cm band above it don't have the same properties at all.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
They were put on the radio because police and fire departments have been buying incompatible coms equipment for years.
After the clusterfuck that was the 9/11 reponse, there has been a concerted push to get law enforcement, fire, EMS, military, and government all working on the same wavelength. That's pretty much the entire point of this bill.
Obviously selling off part of the HAM spectrum is a stupid idea, but his goal of getting ALL responders onto one wavelength is long overdue. Of course, once you put all the responders onto an encrypted channels in the 700MHz range, amateur radio will no longer be able to help.
You're right, a locality might have local police/sheriff/fire on the same band, but it will likely be only for that area, and the state police will or could be on another. Then, if that community is near the state border, the officials in the other state are quite likely using even different equipment.
I was talking with an emergency management official who went to a "high level" meeting trying to figure out how to handle this very problem if there ever was a large scale disaster. The meeting went on for HOURS, and they never got ANYWHERE. Just a bunch of bureaucracy, red tape blabbering of career politicians with no real knowledge of anything in the real world. Basically it was going to be expensive because ultimately someone was going to have to scrap all their radios and no-one wanted to do it.
As a (not active anymore but licensed) ham, who's dad IS an active ham, and who has spent a little time working with law enforcement and EM guys, ham radio IS vital to keep up. Many EM departments actively seek out local hams and support them and involve them.
When the power goes out on a large scale, like a katrina situation, or in a 3rd world country with crap infrastructure - the low power long range capability of ham radio is vital.
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
Good title to the topic, Erroneous. You are WRONG, the US 70 cm band is 420.000 - 449.995 MHz with some exceptions near the Canadian border. Look it up.
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
The ARRL has a page set up against HR-607 as well as sample letters. Apparently, if you send them to Chwat & Co (info on previous link(s)), they will hand-deliver it to Congressional office.
As always, the real question is what industry is lobbying King to get this spectrum. Telecom? It's a dick move, but you gotta know someone is paying good money to get this done.
The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains
Famous last words. You're being overconfident and it will bite you in the ass someday. Mark my words.
I used to be part of a HAM club that provided communications to coordinate an annual community event. The club had it's place back in the day, but realistically with the widespread use of FRS/GMRS there's really no reason to have a HAM club do it anymore. Maybe it made sense back in 1960 when the average Joe couldn't get his hands on a radio.
No, we don't. For broadcast, we rely on existing commercial broadcast stations, which is why they test the Emergency Alert System from time to time.
The problem H.R.607 is attempting to address is the fact that police, firemen, and first responders of all stripes don't have a common way to communicate; their frequencies are spread throughout the spectrum. The attempt is to establish the so-called "D Block", 758-763 and 788-793 MHz, as a unified, interoperable public safety band to fix this (among other repairs). The part to which people object is Sec. 207(d)(1), which reads,
AUCTION- Not later than 10 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the paired electromagnetic spectrum bands of 420-440 megahertz and 450-470 megahertz recovered as a result of the report and order required under subsection (c) shall be auctioned off by the Federal Communications Commission through a system of competitive bidding meeting the requirements of section 309 of the Communications Act of 1934.
In other words, the bill proposes to fund the transition by selling off this spectrum; the people who have been using this spectrum (since shortly after World War II, I might add) are, quite reasonably, upset.
Oh God I love HAM trolling stories. They really are they best flamewars on /. The title of this article might as well have been "King Wants To Sell The Air" for the amount of insta-anger its produced.
Of course, once you put all the responders onto an encrypted channels in the 700MHz range, amateur radio will no longer be able to help
I'm not a HAM enthusiast, but I know my fair share, and rest assured that availability of long-range communications is ALWAYS helpful.
Even if everyone in all emergency services has the same band of 700mhz radios and can talk to each other (unlikely, since they'll all be from different lowest-bidder manufacturers), it's often impractical due to the sheer volume of personnel. Having people who know how to communicate quickly and efficiently is important. Having people at the disaster site where shit's going down is important. Having people who can maintain equipment in addition to using it is important.
Keep a couple of HAM sets and someone who has a clue about them at your emergency center, and you can get field reports from places your officers can't go. You can talk to each other if and when your official encrypted channels are overloaded. You can get messages out to not only other departments, but other continents. You can coordinate with the general populace (at least to some extent) because just about everyone's got someone less than a mile away who has a HAM radio.
Plus, you've got some people who can build and maintain their own radios. Not many first-responder personnel are going to be very useful if they drop their radio into a puddle, but more than a few advanced HAMsters can probably rig something up with baling twine and bubblegum to keep the lines open to some extent (exaggeration, of course, but they've probably got enough spare parts to whip you up an extra radio, or keep a half dozen radios running).
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
And what if a person willing to give you a blowjob isn't immediately nearby? A HAM operator can help find one for you and give them directions.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Take it to the scene? Are you talking about a car-wreck or a natural disaster? A large earthquake could have a 200 square mile "scene", and may involve emergency personnel from across the country, each with their own disparate radio system that doesn't interoperate with the local agencies. Even in my local area there are a number of non-interoperable EMS radio systems, complicating disaster communications.
How do I know this? Local ARES meetings where the hams meet with local agencies to help define and coordinate their roles. Many of the members work for EMS services as EMT's, firemen, dispatches, etc. It seems that emergency service providers in my area don't reject volunteer disaster communications help - perhaps the thought of hundreds of thousands of people without power and fresh water (many of them suddenly homeless with no where to go) makes EMS providers think that just because their firetrucks can talk to each other, there might be other disaster communication needs. Only 30% of my department's firefighters even live in my city, so there won't be much immediate help to supplement on-duty firefighters, there may be less than 600 firefighters on-hand to support 700,000 citizens (and another few hundred thousand commuter workers trapped in the city).
Rather than badmouthing those that try to help, why not put them to work - organize meetings and find ways that they can help cover gaps in your communication. If power is out, cell towers are down, how will someone in a remote area let you know he needs help? If you think hams get in your way in a disaster, wait until disaster victims crowd your fire station trying to get health and welfare information for them and their family members.
Even my NERT training talked about the role that hams can play in a large disaster. EMS can't be everywhere, and when normal communication channels are down, the average citizen needs some way to contact EMS when there's a problem. (though my city is unique in that there are still old-fashioned fire department call boxes on many street corners)
I've never met a real "professional in emergency services" who is so angry at people volunteering help - but I guess there's always one. I guess you've never been involved in a large scale disaster, particularly not outside the US. I'm sure you don't need a ham helping you out at a car crash a mile from the city centre, and anyone too eager to help can be asked nicely to move on and leave space. But for large scale disasters in the US, where multiple records and official acknowledgement of ham assistance exists, what do you say?
Now, imagine you were to move outside your comfortable city centre and decide to start practicing the middle of nowhere. You find your equipment has developed a fault. No, worse - your wonderful van of blach box tech is neck-deep in water. Who exactly are you going to turn to?
I think you're probably in your early to mid 20s. You have no notion of the spirit of US independence and self-sufficiency which built the nation. You're probably scared of the notion that people try to look after themselves and support their own community. You lean on big, centralised, uniform and very young structures. You long for freedom to be taken away because you hate that others might enjoy what you couldn't handle anyway.
Oh - it goes without saying that I'm a ham. And a physician of 15 years. Both these talents have enabled me to save lives. Catch up, boy.
Hasn't this all been done before? Wasn't a portion of the television spectrum allocated for these "first responders"? Why don't they use that?
I am a "real professional" I work on an ambulance, I have an extensive background in search and rescue, and I'm a ham radio operator.
I have amazed the military, the local police forces, and the head of disaster services for our province with what I can do on ham radio, things they can't do on their multi-million dollar comm systems when they're working properly. In a disaster, when all the repeaters that are required for the fancy digital radios stop working, emergency services always come back to the hams.
Your truck is a good first step in emergency preparedness, but there's never a guarantee it will work as planned, or that it can get to where you need it, or that you won't need it in more than one location at the same time. One mobile repeater won't cover the site of a large scale disaster, and outside responding agencies may not even be able to use it.
The only "holier-than-thou I-know-everything" types are the ones who think they are infaliable and could never require any outside assistance. If you are truly involved in emergency services I suggest you go back to your most basic introductory class where they discuss knowing your limitations, operating within them, and not being afraid to call for help when you actually need it. This is part of every single course I have ever seen for every emergency service qualification, it's tragic that many people forget it, because it's simple stuff like that that costs lives, sometimes the victims, and often the responders.
Which wouldn't be a good thing for everyone involved. Look what happened to that guy that ran him over.
2X2L calling CQ. Isn't there anyone on the air? Isn't there anyone on the air? Isn't there.... anyone?
Ham radios are like guns. Authoritarians don't really like regular people having them. So it's a good idea to have them even if you don't see any reason at this exact moment.
look sig is kool
Maybe he recognizes a similar situation when he sees one. :-/
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Emergency communication is important, but that's really not the only reason for amateur radio. Access to these bands is a great way for people, both young and old, to be able to experiment with electronics. A lot of innovations in communication have come from hams, frequency modulation is a good example. Many experienced engineers have gotten their start messing with radio gear.
Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
You've never met a real "professional in emergency service" so angry at volunteers because, simply, the poster is not one. He's a loserboy jerking off to kiddie scat porn in his overweight mama's basement . Pay no attention to him as he whacks his microscopic weenie in the darkness.
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
Er, you are aware that this bill calls for selling off the band those FRS/GMRS radios operate in as well, right?
(Posting AC because I am quite involved in this particular issue)
You are correct about the DoD not wanting to give up their spectrum, and Congress sees it right now as a valuable asset that can be sold to commercial provides. There have been a number of spectrum occupancy studies performed over the last few years that point out that the DoD spectrum is significantly less utilized (in terms of occupancy) than the national average, and particularly compared to commercial spectrum.
Therefore, the commercial companies are arguing that they should be able to purchase some of this spectrum from the DoD because they can make better use of it than the DoD does, and the government would also get several tens of billions of dollars in it's bank account.
Just because someone designs a receiver (as a TV is) that is *poorly* designed or built, so that it is affected by "out-of-band" signals (eg Amateur Radio transmissions) does not mean that the Amateur (or owner of another transmitter) is at fault. There are many examples of radio design where there is an assumption that poor / cheap design is countered by the remote possibility of a nearby and legal 'interference'.
Looking at space, radio, science and computing from a 'down-under' amateur enthusiast perspective.
Everyone loves to mention value of amateur radio when disasters strike (and yes this non-govt, non-centralized infrastructure of wireless communications is difficult to take out). What I see is a much more serious blow and that is removing the wireless "playground" for techies and nerds to do their thing. OK so many of these guys don't spend much time with girls but it is the hands-on experience of applying theory to practice, trying some different kind of radio configuration, or simply seeing what works/what doesn't work.
Besides Marconi or Armstrong, countless engineers and other technical professionals acquired useful skills through bold experimentation to either push the envelope to develop new technologies, knowing how to read schematics and work on systems to get a reasonable paying job instead minimal wage at a retail store, or from past personal experience will know better to not accidently take down entire comm system of their employer (although it sometimes still happens).
If we trash RF spectrum for techies to play with, we stymied personal development in wireless technologies. Not that it would be the end of everything but it will become more difficult for someone to enter that field.
Another scary aspect is this proposal has got to be the dumbest thing ever. Part 90 users are fuming as they are having to narrowband then whammo! They gotta dump all their 450MHz gear and infrastructure, then have to start from the ground up on 700MHz. I really wonder what kind of people we have making such decisions, like they have no competent advisors.
Now that you got me ranting about stuff, I will add only reason to move all PS agencies to 700MHz is because it is easier to organize on MS Excel. What we have here is a failure of policy makers grasping the physics of the situation.
For years we've been hammered with "govt is bad" and "regulation is bad" and FCC being a govt agency that does regulation they inherently have two strikes as the bad guy. Then as this whole jihad against govt spending little agencies like FCC are being further reduced (look at actual fed budget numbers, you will see FCC along with NASA, EPA, Dept of Education take a 16% slice of the pie, but the big slices is never discussed). So it is not surprising FCC lacks those with technical know-how to properly advise policy makers.
Along with other FCC mischief is the approval of mobile broadband by Lightspeed adjacent to GPS freq (there is actually intense meetings at fed agencies in Wash DC about how to deal with this).
So be careful before getting on the bandwagon about reducing govt spending and privatizing everything, look at the rest of budget pie instead of that 16% slice. You may not like the result and it will not do much in overall spending.
mfwright@batnet.com
Yep, there is no way this will pass because the military uses it, and we all know military trumps all.
Thanks for your insight. Now go take your meds, little guy.
Heh. I think this representative has to be high to think that anyone would actually pay money to buy such a narrow band. Even if you could get everybody off the band (which isn't likely given that it's wide open for HAM use internationally according to the ITU), the band is only 20 MHz wide. I mean, that's less than the width of a single GSM band in a single direction. That's narrower than a single 802.11 channel. Who wants a band that narrow? What practical use could such a small band have on the open market today, other than penny ante uses like pagers for restaurants, wireless microphones, or legacy analog 2-way voice? Pretty much anybody who could make use of a band that narrow already has spectrum allocation, and pretty much everybody looking for bandwidth right now is looking for larger blocks.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
You know, the one known as the "Muslim Brotherhood". With one Sayyid Qutb as spiritual leader.
So, did you type this blather by hand or simply take a red-scare piece from an earlier incarnations of bigots and do a search and replace?
Okay, honest question - I don't know much about Ham radio. But the article says they're selling rights to a particular spectrum - but is this the only part of the spectrum available for amateur operators?
I swear I'm not trolling, or trying to minimize the impact. I understand it might require changing broadcast gear, etc., but this wouldn't seem to be an existential threat to ham operators, merely a hassle because you have to move to new frequencies. Or is there something intrinsically better about the specific frequencies in question (420-440 MhZ) which makes them particularly well-suited to amateur radio broadcasts, to the point that hams couldn't operate elsewhere?
A couple issues.
First off, if you're a ham and you've invested in gear for a particular band, and that band gets sold off... Guess what? Your gear's now nearly worthless. "Moving to new frequencies" means "buying new gear", unless you have gear that already supports that band. And there's nothing in this deal about a new chunk of spectrum being allocated to hams to replace 440.
Second, yes, it's just one chunk of spectrum. But the problem is this isn't the only thing something like this has happened. If chunks of amateur spectrum continue to be taken away, at some point there will be nothing left.
Third: different wavelengths have different benefits. I don't remember all the details but I know the longer wavelengths (10 meters, etc.) allow you do do things like atmospheric propagation to get a signal to the other side of the world. Shorter wavelengths (and, hence, higher frequencies) IIRC deal better with local obstacles, and you can get more data through a signal (more bandwidth)
Bow-ties are cool.
I'm 26. I'm not old.
Well, I can't just call you "man"
Bow-ties are cool.
That's not the issue. The government doesn't like ad hoc communications that don't go through proper channels. *cough*.
It's too much like P2P
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
It's called an ARM (Anti Radiation Missile). You don't want to be radiating when the anti radiation missile is launched and those guys with the guns have them. You don't mess with the millitary. They do things like throw you in a jail cell and then lose the jail cell.
Unless this funds replacement of all the licensed users equipment, hams, and police, fire etc. And takes into account treaty restrictions for the use (420-430 MHz is already contentious near the north / Canadian border with some restrictions) this is a non-starter. But the BIG BIG one is Satellite use of the bands. You can't bop over to Radio Shack and get a spare transceiver or transponder for an alternate frequency and send jimmy to the electronics shed to install it. So that is a HUGE expense to replace.
...
So sure allocate some of the public interest wireless use spectrum that used to be TV spectrum over to public interest and emergency responders, but taking the 440 band from HAM use and alternate emergency services and satellite use is just wrong and costly. If they do this I want my brand new unused (and all my old) 440 gear replaced as part of the auction requirements. I am sitting on about 8 thousand dollars in just my shack and car (and motorcycle) at the moment. And I'll be upset and it will affect my voting pattern
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
Possibly fourth: Would it not also mess up interoperability with amateur radio operators in other countries? (My father-in-law keeps trying to suck me into the dark underworld of his hobbies, especially amateur radio.)
One might ask the same about birds. What ARE birds? We just don't know.
It won't affect any amateurs outside of the USA. However the commercial operators who end up on that band in the US may find a fair amount of non USA amateurs pointing Yagis in their direction and whacking 1500W at them with 10dB gain.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
Hurricane Katrina, Haiti and the recent New Zealand earthquakes to name three that immediately come to mind. All amateur radio operators have kit that can be run off a car battery and they have the ability to knock up a transmitting station out of bits of wire in no time. While the Emergency Services are still trying to figure out how the fuck to talk to each other because their repeaters no longer function, a local ham would already be on air.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
Thats all just shit to make them feel useful. That is not at all required or needed. "I'm an experienced radio operator!" Wow, really? Nobody gives a shit, its not really a skill so much as something anybody in the world could do if they're old enough to talk.
Really? So you would have the ability to sit in the middle of a crowded room with loads of people all talking at the same time and manage to pick out the person you want to hear and accurately copy from and relay information to that person? If it is such an easy thing to do, how come so many people fail the exams?
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
"Think of hams as radio hackers. Some are heroes, others are hobbyiests, some are both."
They were the first large group of "geeks". Long before PCs existed, the ARRL was active and strong.
http://www.arrl.org/ham-radio-history
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I know. I was a member. Then I had children and couldn't afford neat little Yaesu VHF-FM radios with phone patches, etc.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Would you please sign in so I can add you to my hate list? That's where everyone who feels the need to be "special" and use a different font for no apparent reason goes.
Here's an operator doing a telephone patch to a woman in the US from Haiti when the earthquake occured. Yeah it was a scratchy phone call, but it wasn't until later that cell phones and land lines were even semi-functional
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqaKzIkyBug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqaKzIkyBug
I just had this idea flash by - imagined a post-apocalyptic world where people ripped out their internet infrastructure in a fit of religious frenzy -- and amateur radio operators built a network out of people in cars with telegraph keys connected to their car horns - and a map as to where to drive to in order to repeat the last message.
I really should get out more.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Just for clarity for people that know as much about ham as I do (nothing hehe), the code test that Bruce Perens was referring to was a morse code test. I assume that you needed to pass a morse code test to get a license. When I saw code and software in the same sentence, my brain didn't make the leap to 'morse'.
Hams are not all 'old'. (I would submit that your paradigm is old.)
Looking at space, radio, science and computing from a 'down-under' amateur enthusiast perspective.
Just keep the gear and if SHTF, fire it back up. If shit has hit the fan, then the equipment that uses the band won't be working anyway. you could just hop back on it. and if everyone does the same thing you'll be able to use it just like you have been.
Oh Crap, I'm an optimist.....
satellite is to big to take way bandwith from in less you want NFL ST , live evnets back halls, Some RSN's, comcast HITS to go a way.
>> Peter King will sit down and STFU.
Oh, if only we could be so lucky. I, for one, am not quite that optimistic.
- ------ Go 'til ya know.
Nothing like a false dichotomy to try to hide the fact that you are nothing but a cowardly bigot. why don't you go hide in the corner while the adults try to fix the mess you've created.
He is also a flaming hypocrite.
King is a long time supporter of the Provisional IRA. He has raised funds to support the Provos. Both the British and US governments labeled the Provos a terrorist organization. But King calls them "freedom fighters," of course. And now, King is holding hearings into the terror "threat" posed by American Muslims.
Pure bigotry. It's the same stupid crap that got Japanese Americans struck into internment camps during WW II.
You forgot radio homing missiles. Somehow I feel Hams might have a problem with those.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
I hear this a lot, that Ham radio is useful in disasters, but can anyone give some examples?
It's also useful in preventing disaster. I'm part of Skywarn, which is put on by the National Weather Service. They reach out to Ham Radio ops and teach them how to spot severe weather. You take a class to get a license (on top of your normal ham radio license) to do this. In the summer months we get alerts and calls to action to go out and weather spot, looking for severe weather and reporting in to weather nets.
It is all volunteer. Now, not only does the NWS get real time reports on the ground and valuable data on storms, but have you ever wondered how the local news knows that there is 1" hail or a wall cloud at a specific location? Radar is not going to tell you that information. They're monitoring the ham bands for that info. This can mean the difference between life and death when someone is alerted to the fact that a tornado is likely in their vicinity and they can take the precautions necessary to protect themselves.
I've seen those meetings. They end with everyone agreeing to ask the feds for $10,000,000 for a command vehicle with the coms for all the interested party and one person from each agency gets assigned there in emergency.
It doesn't work when the money doesn't come through. And it doesn't work when the money does come through. They'd be better off requiring that all emergency personnel get ham training and have piles of sets to distribute to the emergency personnel in case of emergency.
Learn to love Alaska
you can use this resource if you doubt his words.
http://hams.mapmash.com/hammap.php
there are 46 in our little midwestern town of 9000 people. That, when I think about it, seems just a little crowded! ;)
They can. The military is executive branch, not legislative. Congress is not in their chain of command.
I used to live a few miles from Beale Air Force Base (location of one of the PAVE-PAWS installations) back during the early 80's, when the Cold War was still very real. I had a military ID (surviving son of an officer who died in uniform) which allowed me access to the base for medical and PX privileges; I also had a couple of friends on base who were MPs (military police). They told me about a senator who had visited the base at one point and was curious about that big ol' building with the 200-foot-high "stop signs" on the side. Around that building on the tarmac is a yellow painted line and a red painted line. If you cross the yellow line without permission you can be arrested. If you crossed the red line without permission you can be shot, right there on the spot (PAVE-PAWS was just barely below Cheyenne Mountain in importance for missile detection and defense). Said senator started strolling that direction, right over the yellow line. He was told to get back on the other side; he responded with "it's okay, I'm a senator". Then he walked across the red line.
Yes, the MPs would have been within their rights to shoot him, right then and there, with no further warning or need for permission from their superiors. Their standing orders allow for that. They would not have been prosecuted. Instead they physically dragged him back across the line and held him at gunpoint and lectured him about the reality of civilians (and yes, a senator IS a civilian) on a military base and that they had meant it when they had briefed the senator about the red lines.
Now, the above story is hearsay, but the MPs in question were not the kind of people to tell fish-stories, and other base personnel whom I knew confirmed that there had been a ruckus during the senator's visit that had something to do with PAVE-PAWS. But the point is that the military DOES have certain prerogatives, and operation of PAVE-PAWS is pretty damned high on the list. Essentially, stripping the military of 435MHz would be a cabinet-level thing, as an awful lot of national defense and air traffic monitoring depends upon that band. The phrase "for national defense" as a way to do an end run around normal process is overused, but in the case of ballistic missile defense (and North Korea having demonstrated nuclear weapons and very close to achieving orbit), I understand why the military would strenuously object to anything that interfered with that mission.
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.