Microsoft Reportedly Ends Zune Hardware Development

ideaz tips this Bloomberg report: "Microsoft Corp. will cease introducing new versions of the Zune music and video-player amid tepid demand, helping the company shift its focus to mobile phones, according to a person familiar with the decision. The company will concentrate on putting Zune software onto mobile phones such as those running Microsoft’s Windows operating system, said the person, who declined to be identified because the decision hasn’t been announced. Zune software lets customers buy songs and movies, as well as pay a monthly fee to stream unlimited music."

Comments

Microsoft has been changing

[Billy the Boy]

It looks like they're really making good progress. Windows 7, XBOX360, Windows Phone 7...All awesome products. It's good, since I really wouldn't want to live in a world dominated by Apple and Google.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[lwsimon]

Agreed. I'm actually happy with Win7, which is a first for a Microsoft product since Win2000.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[The Moof]

I'm curious how this will affect the 360. I haven't watched a video on mine since they removed the video marketplace and required you have Zune installed on your Xbox to do most things related to video. If they're discontinuing Zune, are they going to also roll back the Zune Marketplace requirements for the Xbox?

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[balls of steel]

It looks like they're really making good progress. Windows 7, XBOX360, Windows Phone 7...All awesome products. It's good, since I really wouldn't want to live in a world dominated by Apple and Google.

I have to say I agree here. Lets see Bing for example. Live search was always worse than Google, but now they're really up to par, sometimes even better. While Google is spammed with all kinds of shitty websites, Bing is clean. Kudos to MS.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

Zune wasn't actually a bad product and had some nice features that the ipad still hasn't got right. They were just a little late to the game.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[SpryGuy]

I don't understand why you refuse to watch video on Zune on the XBox 360?

They're only discontinuing the hardware and the brand. So they'll rename Zune on the XBox to something else, but it'll be the same thing, software- and service-wise.

Zune music and video on the XBox is pretty good, actually. Especially if you get a ZunePass and use the Smart DJ feature.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Zune Marketplace Requirements"... I think you're thinking it's more than what it is. Or something. I'm not sure what you're opposed to or avoiding here, in fact.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[the linux geek]

Wow, you suck at reading comprehension. Where exactly did he say he wanted a world dominated by Microsoft?

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[mistiry]

Netflix?

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[symbolset]

It's early days yet for Zune. Microsoft has immense resources to bring to bear, and the patience to see it through. No, wait. That was something else.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you suck at reading comprehension. Where exactly did he say he wanted a world dominated by Microsoft?

And you suck at recent history. Domination is what Microsoft does best. Of course they will play that down now that Apple and Google prove resistant to their usual tactics. But make no mistake, Microsoft holds their cards close to their chest.

When Windows gets down to less than 50% of the desktop OS market, uses open standards wherever possible, is as compatible with other systems as possible including file formsts for things like MS Office, then we can talk as though you made a useful point.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[kevinmenzel]

Not to mention that they had great on-device software development, adding any software features that were released with new models to the older devices. Had a zune ever come out with 160GB capacity (or higher), I would have got one, quite likely... except: It's a device tied to one desktop client, and so far no one has been able to crack that. And it's a desktop client that does not serve my needs for music management, including limitations to fields that are arbitrary and significantly more restrictive than the ID3v2 spec allows for.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Mulder3]

Windows Phone 7 is an awesome product? If had to choose between WP7 and Windows Mobile, i'd choose Windows Mobile...

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

World dominated by Apple: the hardware costs a bit more for the computers, equal or cheaper for the devices, software is usually much cheaper than competitors but you can't do everything you want. Some features are limited or non-existant, but otherwise things run pretty smoothly, usability is first and 99.9999% of users don't need to rely on a "computer friend" to help them out.

World dominated by Google: things are usually free but spammed with advertising, you have no anonymity online and you don't control your personnal information and data, their goal is to let you access your data everywhere but in turn they must be able to access it too for advertising purposes. "Don't Be Evil" has been replaced with "Don't Screw Them Too Hard".

World dominated by Microsoft*: they are extremely prone to the "not invented here" syndrome, their software is not only really expensive but also not quite stable, their only redeeming quality is that they try to achieve backward compatibility to the point that most of the software bloat is to support users from a decade ago. Features are put ahead of security, usability is an after-thought at best, sacrificed for an overload of features that most people wouldn't even know how to use in the first place.

* we have proof since that's how it's been since the late 1980's.

They all have bad sides and good sides...

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[The End Of Days]

Awwww, you love to hate Microsoft so much that you have to live in the past now? How sad.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Hognoxious]

I'm actually happy with Win7

I've never used it, so I'll see your "happy" and raise you an "ecstatic".

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

Awwww, you love to hate Microsoft so much that you have to live in the past now? How sad.

Yes, of course hatred is the one and only reason to be honest about who you're dealing with. Such pure hatred couldn't possibly be tainted with lesser concerns like honesty, realism, or a comprehension of the fact that history tends to repeat itself. Nope. Those logical things would interfere with momentary emotions. I am glad you use dismissal and ridicule as your primary means of making your point, since that's clearly superior to the hatred of which you accuse me.

I hate to ruin your pity party and everything but the same personalities who perpetrated Microsoft's repeated past abuses are still running the company. Especially Ballmer. It's simply foolish to act like the last 10 years of abusive behavior didn't happen. In fact, that's precisely what enables more of the same, what makes it successful. Most of their strategic methods depend on people who never see it coming, like embrace-and-extend for example. I see you can be counted among those who facilitate this, no doubt out of some misguided belief that they have suddenly seen the light.

If there had been a significant change in management then I'd agree with you about living in the past. I'd say that the new managers deserve a fair chance to show us whether they're just like the old ones. But there are no new managers, not at the top.

What you're doing there, it's called denial. The only hatred happening here is yours for anyone who makes denial less comfortable for you. Here's the deal and it's real simple: it never occurred to me to think of Microsoft's leadership as ruthless bastards until they started repeatedly acting like ruthless bastards. That was their choice. If they really have turned over a new leaf then they should recognize that trust is an especially difficult thing to restore once it is destroyed. If you don't like these basic facts, that's tough shit for you. Being a dick won't change them, nor will it persuade anyone to see things your way. Not that persuasion seems to be your goal.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[PopeRatzo]

The Zune was never better than a mixed bag. Horrible PC interface. Awful. No Mac interface. But the audio quality was very good.

I've got an old 30gb Zune that I bought refurbished on Woot! for about 60 bucks if I remember correctly, and it's been a hardy companion when I ride the bike. I bought it for my daughter but she scoffed at it's not being an Apple product so I ended up with it and was surprised and pleased by its stellar audio quality. It's hit the ground pretty often, so I've got no reason to expect it to keep working, but somehow it has. It's all scratched up and I've got reboot it once a week (par for the Microsoft course) but man it sounds great. For $60US it's been one of my more successful tech purchases. I've got an 8gig iPod touch, but the audio quality isn't nearly as good, and 30gb seems like a good size for a portable music collection. I wonder if the sound quality of the new iPod Touch 4g is better than my older model. Anybody know? I don't carry it on the bike much because I'm afraid it won't stand up the the abuse.

I figure at the rate I'm going my old Zune will probably last another few months, but now I have to search for a new portable with really high audio quality. This time, I'm going for something that can play flac and ogg. What do you guys think? Cowon? Archos? Sansa has better audio quality than the iPod, but not as good as the Zune, but it let's me install rockbox, which is great. And the Sansa's batteries only seem to last a year or less (although to be honest, I've only bought refurbs, so I don't know how good the Sansa batteries are. Also, I've had a few Sansa's for my daughter that have both just up and died after about 5 months.

I guess my ideal player would be 32gb of flash with really good sound and as sturdy as the built-like-a-tank and almost as heavy Zune. I think in 2011 I shouldn't have to carry a mechanical hard drive in my pocket just so I can have all the music I want. Oh, and I want it to cost $150 or less. I want to be able to control it, skip songs, fast forward and change volume without looking at it or taking it out of my pocket so a touchscreen is not indicated.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[thetoadwarrior]

What MS fanboys are no longer including Zune in the list? Zune was just in the list mere days ago.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows Phone 7 is an awesome product? If had to choose between WP7 and Windows Mobile, i'd choose Windows Mobile...

And if i had to choose between an ipad and a newton, i'd choose a newton. Seriously that's the most pointless post you could make.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

You're complaining about a feature that's Netflix and Last.fm all rolled into 1, with a better UI to top it off. It never costs you a dime if you don't want it to and offers a subscription model or a pay for what you want model depending on your preference. You can still watch video game movies under your Video Game section of your regular XBox software, seriously, what's the problem? As a bonus all Zune content is available at no additional charge on your PC (as well as a Zune if you have one). With that said, their movie pricing is way out of whack. Throwing 10 DRM free mp3s at you per month makes Zune Pass a really good buy.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[bhcompy]

Just get a Sansa Clip+/Fuze, or a View if you need to see video. Cheap and replaceable. My Cowon was great, but the processor was sluggish for higher quality oggs, and it died within a year(port went bad, wouldn't recognize being plugged in).

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[soloport]

Learn lessons much?

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Hal_Porter]

I'm sure if he was discussing the merits of the German Liberal Party you'd say "Oh vote Nazi and shut up. tl;dr and no-one else did either"

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Hal_Porter]

This. Windows Mobile was endlessly customisable. It allowed you to install software from cab files you'd obtained from various sources. You could flash custom Roms with pretty much any UI you wanted. You could use removable SD cards.

Windows Phone 7 won't run the old applications and the one application I really like on Windows Mobile - Pleco Chinese dictionary - won't rewrite to run on WinPhone 7. The specs prohibit removable SD cards and force you to install from their app store. It's like Microsoft thinks that the reason people like iPhones is because they are locked the fuck down.

I think people that like Apple will keep buying Apple. People that liked the flexibility of WinMo will probably end up on Android. Most of the ISVs for Windows Mobile will probably end up there too. Pleco runs on iPhone and is planned to run on Android.

Windows Phone 7 is one of those things that got a few good reviews but I think it is a much worse disaster for Microsoft than Vista in the long run. Windows Mobile may have been a minority choice but all Windows Phone 7 will do is drive that minority to Apple or Google for their next phone. IE their market share will drop to zero in the mobile market.

It's a shame really - my HD2 with the Cookie Energy Rom is a really nice device. There's loads of software around for WinMo too.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

It's awesome when microsoft pays you to 'turf. Guess he didn't get the memo that zune has been killed.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[CohibaVancouver]

software is usually much cheaper than competitors but you can't do everything you want

The Apple software I've run on Windows (iTunes, Quicktime) is pretty poor - Counter-intuitive UI, kludgy, bloaty (auto-install of Bonjour etc.). Does Microsoft software on a Mac suffer the same issues?

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

Awwww, you love to hate Microsoft so much that you have to live in the past now? How sad.

I am the same AC. I have already responded to you. Answer my post, if you can.

Cat got your keyboard? Where is that boldness, that condescension you so proudly displayed? Is it so easily silenced? Did you think you had an easy victory, then? My, it sure is humbling to realize you drastically overestimated the security of your position, is it not? You resemble nothing so much like a sail with no wind behind it. Next time you speak in condemnation, be certain you are on solid ground.

At least have the courage to admit when a good point has been made, you coward.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[TheRaven64]

Mod parent up! Best Godwin I've read for a long time.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[mystikkman]

All this applies to most companies and even more so for Apple. The recent 30% forced charge on subscriptions is worse than anything MS could come up with. And it's enforced with DRM.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[TheRaven64]

They all have bad sides and good sides

Which is why it's best if none of them win. Their bad sides all get a lot bigger when they are in a dominant market position.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[PopeRatzo]

Mod parent up! Best Godwin I've read for a long time.

It was pretty impressive. The less talented poster wouldn't even consider going Nazi when talking about portable audio players. It takes a special person to think outside the box that way.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[dunkelfalke]

Well, to be honest, FDP is pretty much superfluous - it is a single-issue party, and this single issue is corporate welfare. No merits whatsoever. It is called "Moevenpick-Partei" for a reason.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, since when do trolls get upvoted? W7 is Vista, the most-maligned OS on the planet, with a few cosmetic upgrades (post the service packs, of course). XBOX360 is a true wonder of the modern world - every fourth MALFUNCTIONS, MS doesn't do shit about it, and yet, people still buy it, no lawsuits either. WP7 is a bad joke. It used to be a joke, but when they decided to screw Nokia up, it became a bad one. And the dumb fucks are still wondering why no one wants to develop for their precious new shitphone. But, to be honest, this is all they really need to compete - Windows could ship in a steaming pile of shit and no one would notice it, PS3 is almost as bad, plus it is more expensive and Sony is tremendously stupid with their management, and the i*shit really just sickens anyone with any smidge of good taste, while smartphones in general do not make me especially excited - they're too big, they usually don't have physical keyboards, far too expensive, too powerful for a phone, but not powerful enough for anything useful (yet, that'll probably change).

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[mystikkman]

Domination is what MS does best? MS in underdog mode is also pretty good. All their dominating products didn't come out of thin air. They kept plugging on while their competitors make mistakes (eg Netscape vs. IE5). IE5 was definitely better.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[LordLimecat]

[Apple]...but otherwise things run pretty smoothly, usability is first and 99.9999% of users don't need to rely on a "computer friend" to help them out.

Good thing that apple support is free for all things, hardware failures never occur, and they dont need help setting it up. Oh wait, as an IT consultant I have to deal with all of those things... on Macs too.
Also, good thing their server offerings are so strong...

[Google]... everywhere but in turn they must be able to access it too for advertising purposes.

I like how you imply all the other search engines (and all other free online services...) including microsoft arent the same. And Ill note that in several of their products (Chrome/ium/OS, Apps, Postini), you can prevent them from collecting any data quite easily (in the case of apps/postini, its by GASP paying for the product).

[Microsoft] ...their software is not only really expensive but also not quite stable

Myth, If your Server 2008/Exchange 2010 setup isnt stable youre doing it wrong (and Im not really sure how youd even maange that). Compare its stability to such appliance OSes such as Freenas or pfsense, I think youll find its a hell of a lot MORE stable (since having a USB keyboard plugged into those causes a boot-crash)...

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

Domination is what MS does best? MS in underdog mode is also pretty good. All their dominating products didn't come out of thin air. They kept plugging on while their competitors make mistakes (eg Netscape vs. IE5). IE5 was definitely better.

Naturally, being bundled with Windows by default and therefore coming automatically on over 90% of all desktop PCs makes no impact on the equation. Right. Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, dude.

Oh and IE5 had its heyday in the dim past. If that's your best example, the spearhead of your position, then your argument sucks cock. Save this bullshit for the fanboys, they might humor you.

How about this: if Microsoft's products are so clearly superior, why are they so terrified of competing on an open field? Why do they use so many dirty underhanded tactics to make sure it never comes to open competition? Like I said, keep drinking the Kool-Aid you fucking fanboy.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[EvilIdler]

Counter-intuitive GUIs, definitely. Office '11 has improved over previous ones, but it's still not 100% native. Bonus for using the built-in media browser. There also seem to be some PPC-only apps (not the core ones, fortunately) left in the package, which is going to fuck things up when Lion is out (Apple are killing Rosetta).

From an article on the new release:
http://photos.appleinsider.com/office2011.004.jpg

I'm not sure I like that look even on Windows. Looks like somebody gutted a GUI builder all over it.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Hal_Porter]

My psychiatrist always told me I was a very special patient.Oh and that I should try his liver and fava beans.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

How interesting that two extremely similar ID's both gush over Microsoft. Billy the Boy (2016540) and balls of steel (2016538).

Gee what an amazing coincidence that those numbers are so similar. It's as if they we

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anthony Mouse]

It looks like they're really making good progress. Windows 7, XBOX360, Windows Phone 7...All awesome products.

I kind of feel like Vista really lowered the bar and now people are happy with anything that isn't strictly worse than the previous version. I mean sure, Windows 7 has features that Windows XP doesn't, but most home users use it because it came installed on their PC and most businesses are upgrading to it primarily because they skipped Vista and they don't want to be still running XP when Microsoft discontinues support for it, rather than because it's so awesome that they had to have it.

And look at WP7: About the best you can say about it is that it's an improvement over WP6. But it still seems like a day late and a dollar short compared to its competitors.

It's good, since I really wouldn't want to live in a world dominated by Apple and Google.

I'll take Apple and Google over Microsoft any day. And realistically that seems to be the way things are going -- Android is well-positioned to become the mobile commodity OS with the lion's share of sales volume, especially in the budget market, with iOS securing the position MacOS has always held relative to Windows, i.e. lower volume but higher margins.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Deflatamouse]

Where is Linux??? It's not exactly a company, but it's also another "World View", if you will, of computer software.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anthony Mouse]

They kept plugging on while their competitors make mistakes (eg Netscape vs. IE5). IE5 was definitely better.

You're forgetting what IE was. Microsoft has never made a dime from IE other than as a lock-in strategy to keep people tied to Windows, nor did they ever intend to. So if your point is that Microsoft can execute a successful lock-in strategy then the point is well taken, but if you're trying to argue that their products are good for the consumer... I don't think lock-in is very good for the consumer.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anthony Mouse]

Really? A bit more? Apple will double the prices as soon as Linux is the only alternative. Apple will be the only manufacturer, AMD will go out of business. etc. etc.

That's not how it works. Microsoft can't go out of business if most people are still paying them for Windows, which implies that people have switched to something else. Apple intentionally refuses to serve the budget market, which means that those people will have to switch to Linux. That's plenty of people for AMD to sell hardware to because the budget market has huge volumes (not to mention the server market, which is already Linux), and they're well positioned for those markets anyway. Plus, if a lot of people start using desktop Linux then it gets network effects which makes it more competitive and Apple can't really raise their prices that much.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anthony Mouse]

If your Server 2008/Exchange 2010 setup isnt stable youre doing it wrong

Trouble is there are a lot of MCSEs out there "doing it wrong."

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[cgenman]

If I'm not mistaken, the Zune marketplace is just a poor rebranding of their previous Video Marketplace. You can continue to buy shows through the Zune marketplace just for your Xbox. You can also continue to play videos on the Xbox from your PC through your hard disk tab. And then of course there is Netflix on Xbox, which is better than their marketplace anyway.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[schnell]

Windows 7, XBOX360, Windows Phone 7...All awesome products.

I happen to agree with you that many of Microsoft's new produts are big improvements over their previous entries when evaluated individually. However, I think Microsoft's problem is that new mass-market computer products can't be evaluated as "standalone" anymore. It's all about the "ecosystem." This is why the Zune and pretty much every other standalone MP3 player has such a tiny marketshare, and why Microsoft tablets have lost out as well.

In the brave new computing world (His Steveness likes to call it the "post-PC world"), success is about an ecosystem of products that work together, and the more you use them all, the greater the value. Only three companies really get this: Apple, Google and Microsoft.

MSFT has been dominant in the PC world for so long because they had a brilliant business-centric ecosystem: Windows + Office + Exchange. For a while, they even had a smartphone dominance (remember 2007?) because Windows Mobile hooked into those things and mainly business users bought smartphones. But their consumer "media"/portable ecosystem sucked: Zune + ZunePass + Underpants Gnomes? Or even PlaysForSureAsLongAsItsNotAZune? (To be fair: they also held something of a consumer PC dominance with an ecosystem of Windows + Visual Studio + DirectX, but that has not helped them with Zune or phones.)

In the new world where mobile devices (including MP3 players) are based on consumer ecosystems, Apple has: MacOS X + iLife Applications + iOS + iTunes App Store + even Apple TV now that all work together and add collective value ... the more parts of that ecosystem you use, the better they work together and the greater value you as a user get. (e.g. an iPhone/iPad syncs up all your iTunes music/videos and iPhoto pics brilliantly and you can play them on the Apple TV as well.) Similarly, Google has Google search + amazing Google apps (Gmail, their first "killer app;" GTalk; Google Maps; Picasa; Google Docs; etc.) + Android + marketplaces + Google TV on some newer TVs. These two ecosystems have sucked up the new consumer markets and are now bleeding over even further into enterprise spaces. Google even has Chromium to enter the PC space... you can see how they really "get" the ecosystem thing and both companies are now duking it out for the throne. (I also think this is why you see RIM losing out in the smartphone market now... they nailed one part of the equation but had no answer for the others.)

To your point ... these are better products now from Microsoft, and there is more of a consumer ecosystem today (XBOX + Windows Phone 7 WP7 App Store + Bing + Silverlight) than there was before. But Microsoft's problem is they didn't "get" the consumer ecosystem space until too late, and their offerings have all been a day late and a dollar short.

P.S.: you'll note that neither Apple nor Google have "gotten" social networking as part of their ecosystem. (Microsoft at least had the sense to buy part of Facebook a few years ago.) I firmly believe that if either Apple or Google ever co-opt social networking through partnerships or acquisitions, the game will be over.

P.P.S.: when some Gartner consultant reads this and figures out what the "big strategic issue" is for Microsoft and puts it in a research note, please send me a check.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Paradise Pete]

What's up with the two freshly-made accounts trying to put positive spin on Microsoft? If you're getting paid to do it you ought to put a disclaimer in your sig.

So are you getting paid to do it?

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[ynp7]

I highly doubt it, though I'd expect them to rebrand the "Zune Marketplace" with a new name in the next 6-12 months to distance it from the failed hardware platform.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[aiht]

My psychiatrist always told me I was a very special patient.Oh and that I should try his liver and fava beans.

He told you to eat his liver?

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Billly Gates]

What are you smoking?

XBOX overheats, and windows 7 mobile has many issues with bad icons and has single digit marketshare.

Apple and Google have

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anthony Mouse]

To your point ... these are better products now from Microsoft, and there is more of a consumer ecosystem today (XBOX + Windows Phone 7 WP7 App Store + Bing + Silverlight) than there was before. But Microsoft's problem is they didn't "get" the consumer ecosystem space until too late, and their offerings have all been a day late and a dollar short.

It seems like a big part of their problem is that their individual bits don't complement each other -- even where they obviously could. For example, XBOX should have shared 99% of its DNA with Windows -- the only thing different should have been a TV-optimized UI for XBOX, and even that should share the same API. You should be able to plug an XBOX controller into a Windows PC's USB port, put the XBOX game in the PC's DVD drive and play. But you can't.

Likewise, the whole DRM thing in general -- why are there so many mutually-incompatible flavors? Even embracing it at all was a huge mistake -- Apple can only barely get away with it because their customers are loyalists, and even they take a huge amount of flack for it. They need differentiators to separate themselves from Apple and being DRM-free would be a major one if they would give up the pro-DRM zealotry.

But the more basic trouble seems to be that their products don't really fit together. They're just copying whatever their competitors do. Hey, let's copy Google and make Bing. Copy Adobe and make Silverlight. Copy Apple and make phones with app stores. Copy Nintendo and Sony and make XBOX. Throwing everything at the wall with the hope that something sticks is a stupid plan -- most of the time it doesn't work because they're late to market with a product that isn't really better than what already exists.

They're just copying products without a strategy: iPhone fits with with Mac and iTunes because an iPhone is just an iPod with a radio in it, but Zune and WP7 have nothing to do with one another. Adobe makes Flash to sell Flash Creator and succeeds because Flash Player already runs on most platforms and is installed on most computers -- if Microsoft wanted to sell copies of Visual Studio they should have either made Silverlight output as HTML5 and javascript or BSD licensed the Silverlight client; the way they've done it makes everyone skittish about lock-in. I could go on. Where's the strategy?

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah phone 7 is going to beat android this year! Oh, and bing is going to totally rub out google this year! Oh, and zune (in spite of the story) it totally going to smash ipod sales this year! Oh, and windows tablets are totally going to rub out that Ipad2 this year, totally! Wooo Hooo! Wooo! Wooo! Bob sure beats that stupid IBM watson thing! Totally! And clippy, lets not forget the old clipper! He was a favorite of everyone! Totally. Now why the hell are all the chairs in here bolted to the floor?!? Oh, I think I'm going to get sweaty! Developers Developers Developers Developers! Developers Developers Developers Developers! Developers Developers Developers Developers! Developers Developers Developers Developers! Developers Developers Developers Developers!

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Daniel Phillips]

Apple hasn't even begun to approach the level of evil that seeps out of Redmond on a regular basis. One word: MOOXML.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Daniel Phillips]

MS in underdog mode is also pretty good.

An unsuccessful thug is still a thug, not an underdog.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[hairyfeet]

I'd say it was the Bing that gave him away, but to be fair maybe he is a Twitter style fanboi. I mean the X360 and Windows 7? Most folks will admit those are damned good products, especially Windows 7 which I have to say is about the best damned OS I've ever used, and this is coming from someone who couldn't stand the Fisher Price GUI in XP and absolutely fricking hated Vista.

But Bing? The GUI is shit. It is friendly for the mom types maybe, everyone else will probably be driven up the wall. Personally I'll stick with Yahoo Search with its better GUI and less Google Spam. So if he is an astroturfer frankly they should fire his ass for being lame and going for the crap product.

As for TFA? Kinda sad but not unexpected. I've talked to a few people that own a Zune and they are quite happy with them, say they are rock solid and easy to use. But sadly the public has a one track mind when it comes to PMPs, and that track has iPod written on it.

When I'm out in the spring enjoying my Sandick M series (love being able to change out the battery with bog standard AAAs, as I never have any luck with L-ion batteries) it never fails I get "what kind of iPod is that?" and I say Sandisk and get "Is that a new iPod?". For the public PMP = iPod, Just as I've had to explain to customers that the search bar on the Yahoo portal they insist I set their homepage to can actually search for things and isn't just a way to get to Google, because sadly they've heard "Google it" for so long they think Google is a different thing or something because Google is a word now. Maybe it is that whole "choice equals badness for consumers" or something.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Bert64]

And how much of the lack of spam on bing is down to the spammers simply not bothering with it?
All the search engine optimization sites target google, trying to influence bing results wouldn't get you many extra hits.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[hairyfeet]

AC you ignorant slut (Sorry Ackroyd) because those of us that lived through it know NS 4 was absolute shit on a stick and deserved to die.

Here let me give you a nice example of what Nutscrape 4 was like "Oh look my dialup is humming and I'm ready to go! I'll just load up this webpage /Nutscrape crashes/ ohh...well that must have been a glitch. I'll just load up a different /nutscrape locks hard/...crap. Alright lets try this again.../Nutscrape locks hard and BSODs the machine/ %$&^%$&^%$!

And it is THAT, that right there, that killed NS and NOT MSFT. I knew plenty of people that happily bought NS after MSFT released IE, got tired of having their fricking desktop freeze or crash, and went to MSFT. Was MSFT wrong to bundle? I don't think so, it is their product and you didn't have to use IE then nor do you have to now. I use Dragon and FF personally. But that is why we have this little word called competition where if you don't like a product you should buy something else instead of bitching.

What MSFT SHOULD have been busted for was the checks cut to OEMs, same as I would argue that Intel deserves to be branded a monopoly and punished for doing the same shit, because THAT is using one's power to rig the market in your favor. But IE VS NS is a bad example because the best product won and I'm sure we're ALL very grateful, unless you like having to break out your CC just to have a browser? Because THAT was what we had before MSFT came along and made IE free.

NS pre 4 was a decent browser, although they had a ton of proprietary shit in it (remember the blink tag?) but NS 4 killed that company dead, not MSFT. you put out a POS release that crashes and takes out the OS more than it runs and you expect different? Happened all through tech history, just ask the guys at DBase.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[rtb61]

Did a quick check to amuse myself. Hmm, first 6 adds on every Bing search result are spam, pretty much guaranteed. Beyond that definitely more spam on Bing than on Google, oh wait, I am using https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/optimizegoogle/ to filter out crappy sites (including ebay). Well since you seem to be doing M$ advertising, is there a similar addon for Bing on IE to Optimize Google on Firefox.

Back on topic, I guess Ballmer's uncle is going to be really really disappointed to hear no more Zune, their number one customer. Using you phone to listen to music and watch streaming video is neat and convenient, apart from battery life and data download limits http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phone-battery-life-charts/.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Tubal-Cain]

Hey, if it give the results you want, who cares? It's no effort to use Bing instead of Google, and when the spammers start targeting Bing, it won't be any effort to move on to something else.
That said, I don't plan on switching from Google any time soon.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

On the other hand, apple created quick time.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I identified your problem. You should have been using Netscape not whatever Nutscrape was.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[intheshelter]

"even more so for Apple"

- Why even MORE for Apple? Because you just blindly hate Apple?

" recent 30% forced charge on subscriptions"

- WRONG! There is NO 30% forced charge on subscriptions. That is what greedy content providers are saying, but it is absolutely false. Content providers can sell a subscription outside of their app and not pay one dime to Apple. All Apple asks (and fairly I think) is that if a content provider sells subscriptions outside of the app then they also must give the option to sell it inside the app for the same (or better) price. In other words if Apple brings the content provider money through their ecosystem then Apple gets a cut (as is fair) and if the content provider gets a subscription outside of Apple's ecosystem then Apple does NOT get a cut (which is fair).

Please understand a topic before you comment on it. As with most blind Apple haters you don't know wtf you are talking about and end up making ridiculously misinformed statements.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[intheshelter]

Quicktime on the Mac is fine. Quicktime on Windows is less appealing. Personally I'm inclined to blame Windows because it seems everything sucks a bit more on Windows. I'm just going with the preponderance of the evidence.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[intheshelter]

Ha!! I wish I could remember where I heard that exact quote before, was it Ballmer or a faux "journalist"? Either way, good for a laugh. Another example of MS thinking they could buy/bully their way in and they obviously don't have a clue.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[MightyYar]

And then Microsoft copied it... see? So evil that when another company creates something evil they steal it!

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[b0bby]

I got the brown Zune from Woot also & mine is still cranking along too. I agree that the Zune software isn't perfect, but I do like it better than itunes for two reasons - it finds new music when I add it to my Music directory, and it lets me do a wireless sync. I use other software to rip & prep my mp3 tags before adding them. I keep mine in a dock on the kitchen counter jacked into ceiling speakers, and use the radio, podcasts & music daily; the wireless sync is nice to keep the podcasts updated. If it dies I'd think of getting another from ebay, they're pretty cheap.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[mystikkman]

You are the one with blinders on. What if Netflix/Amazon says that, if a user buys a iDevice because of them(if they install Netflix/Kindle and log in to iDevice with their account), they deserve a 30% of the cost price of the iDevice? And enforce it with strict DRM? Would that be fair since they're causing many people to buy the iDevices?

Apple's move might result in higher prices for the user, how is it fair to them then?

If that makes me a blind Apple hater, you're a deaf iNumbnut with an iBodyPart in your ears.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[mystikkman]

There are a lot of 3rd party apps that are way better on Windows than iTunes. Just see Safari vs. Chrome on Windows, and you might find that Apple can suck even if you can't admit it.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[The End Of Days]

Awwww, now you need to pick a fight with me? Your hatred is overwhelming.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[The End Of Days]

No, what I did there was call out your hatred, which is based on the past. Durr. You shouldn't let your emotions blind you into assuming all sorts of points that I didn't make or even allude to.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Bert64]

Sure, a world dominated by Apple and Google would be a bad thing...
But is a world dominated by MS any better?

MS already have a stranglehold over various areas and they are way ahead of Apple or Google in that respect...
Apple and Google may have significant market share in their respective areas, but they have not leveraged that share to keep people locked in nor have they used it to try and strong arm their way into other areas of the market, similarly they have not achieved dominance in a particular only to let that area stagnate for years. MS have done, and continue to do all of these things.

So sure, Google/Apple domination would be bad, but based on past form i'd much prefer that to MS domination even tho neither situation is ideal.

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Stuarticus]

So basically you would have got one except they were too small and the software was shit?

Re:Microsoft has been changing

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not really surprised when you say the Zune has better sound quality than the iPod touch. There used to exist (back in 2007) a page on the web where someone testing a variety of devices (including the K800i, N95, Sensa, various ipods including the touch) by playing various test tones (not lossy compressed), and analysing the results on a Oscilloscope.

The Apple products were on average in the mid point of the rankings from that test, with the ipod shuffle firmly in the upper half, and the ipod touch/iphone in the lower half. The best "players" were the Sony and Sandisk devices. Incidently the best "phone" was the SE K800, followed by some of the walkman ones and the N95.

The observation was that the iPods (bar the shuffle) had poor amplifiers to actually drive headphones with a load above the apple headphones, causing severe distortion. In the case of the ipod touch, the actual sound generator chip was itself causing distortion when the equaliser was changed to anythign other than normal. I can vouch for that, as I have a ipod touch (1st gen), and when using any headphones other than the apple one, changing the equaliser causes varying levels of "clipping".

Using "line out" and an external amplifier always improved the quality.

Therefore, the Zune doesnt really have much of a bar to beat the ipod touch (especially the first gen).

And in other news

[MightyMartian]

And in other news, Poison Beer Incorporated has announced the end of the production of their Cyanide Cider line of toxic methyl alcohol coolers. A company insider, speaking on condition of anonymity has revealed due to the tepid reception of the drink that causes blindness, neurological damage and in many cases death, has lead to the decision. Poison Beer Incorporated will now be concentrating on Thalidomide Cola, where it sees the future of its toxic drink product sales.

Re:And in other news

[DigiShaman]

Oh come on now! That's being a bit too harsh don't you think? Aside from iTunes, please name the 2nd best candidate. Even if the Zune platform came in 3rd, it's still not *that* bad.

Re:And in other news

[MightyMartian]

Is that like complaining about how the USSR was treated in the press, after all they were the second best superpower!!!!

Re:And in other news

[interkin3tic]

Poison Beer Incorporated will now be concentrating on Thalidomide Cola, where it sees the future of its toxic drink product sales.

Not to take a joke seriously, but Thalidomide isn't very "toxic." That was one of it's selling points in fact. It is a potent teratogen, but those of us who are fully formed, it appears safer than most medicines.

It had been tested extensively on mice and found to be nontoxic. It was so harmless, in fact, that no lethal dose could be established.

Wired

Re:And in other news

[Anonymous Coward]

Go ahead and mod me down, I'll just post something like "and nothing of value was lost" for the instant +5.

And nothing of value was lost.

Re:And in other news

[mattack2]

BTW, thalidomide is successfully used for other treatments nowadays.

No, the joke isn't whooshing over me.

Re:And in other news

[Dahamma]

Except that Apple passed Microsoft on the scale of shady practices and corporate self interest (not to mention market cap) a while ago...

Re:And in other news

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a potent teratogen, but those of us who are fully formed, it appears safer than most medicines.

What a coincidence... it's equally non-toxic for us that are now fully malformed!

Re:And in other news

[Anonymous Coward]

Having had to untangle a relative's computer with that abomination installed on it, I'd rather use *File Explorer* than the Zune software.

Re:And in other news

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that Apple passed Microsoft on the scale of shady practices and corporate self interest (not to mention market cap) a while ago...

That unfortunately only strengthens the analogy.

Re:And in other news

[Znork]

A mod of -1 shill or astroturf would probably be more accurate.

It's quite obvious that Microsoft has been practicing their astroturfing, in particular on WP stories, and it's actually improving away from utterly blatant marketingspeak. But it's still fairly obvious. Unfortunately for Microsoft, such behaviour means that nobody will actually believe genuine reviews should any such ever be positive.

Re:And in other news

[Myopic]

Did you recently read The Poisoner's Handbook? I'm reading that right now.

Re:And in other news

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading a bit further into the article, I note this passage:

Although nontoxic in rodents, thalidomide caused human limbs to stop growing prematurely in utero, resulting in the birth of babies with malformed arms and legs.

So maybe "toxic" isn't the right word, but not really the sort of thing you'd want included in your otherwise refreshing beverages.

we'll miss it

[ArAgost]

** crickets **

Re:we'll miss it

[acedotcom]

honestly it really pisses me off. i love my zune's and have been waiting for an update. they are they best mp3 players on the market. hands down. i am not going to stay with zune just so i can use the software. so fuck zune. i hate to jump ship so quickly. but its not worth staying with for an mp3 player that will never get updated again. also...it will be a cold day in hell before i use a winmo phone.

Re:we'll miss it

[soloport]

De Icaza? You're back?

Demands

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft Corp. will cease introducing new versions of the Zune music and video-player amid tepid demand, helping the company shift its focus to mobile phones

Presumably in the hopes that they can eventually rise all the way up to a tepid level of demand for their phone products too.

Re:Demands

[Hognoxious]

Tepid? We used to dream of tepid. Our dad used to come home and drown us in liquid nitrogen, then smash us to bits like an empty bottle after we'd gone all brittle. But we were happy....

Re:Demands

[ackthpt]

Tepid? We used to dream of tepid. Our dad used to come home and drown us in liquid nitrogen, then smash us to bits like an empty bottle after we'd gone all brittle. But we were happy....

Luxury! Oh, have less than tepid! When our CEO came back from a public flogging at a trade show, flogged by the sweepers, 'cuz they were the only ones to be found around in and around our gigantic booth, our CEO would force us into team building exercises while boiling in vats of molten lead. How we fantasized about a less than tepid reception. We didn't complain though...

Their key strategic mistake

[lwsimon]

They made a key strategic error with the Zune - they didn't realize that no one wanted a "poop brown" media device. Ooops.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[dunezone]

Well they probably shouldn't have launched with that color in the first place. Your number one competition is a sleek white device and brown is the launch color you go with. The device itself is pretty nice though, I use mainly when I am flying because I can move my videos onto it. I also have a Fusion which allows the hookup through Microsoft sync which is a nice feature. For what I paid for it $60 its definitely the best media player I have ever owned and has lasted longer then my iPod. As for the software though, its kind of clunky and slow but Apple isn't much better in that field either.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[bananaquackmoo]

While I realize you're joking they actually made many, many more strategic mistakes. Forcing me to use the Zune software was one. Only having that software on the PC was another. Making that software super slow and super buggy was also quite bad. Rarely updating the firmware and software was the next mistake. Poor codec support was another. Ignoring their customers was probably the worst (one example of that: doing love/hate instead of star ratings). The thing that pissed me off the most (though they later fixed it), as an early adopter, was that their software AUTOMATICALLY and without asking, upon initial install, overwrote all of my music tags, as well as corrupting a good 75% of my music. It's all really too bad, the UI on the hardware was quite good.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Well, none of them are really mistakes. That is the standard operation procedure in Microsoft. They tried to contact your CIO and convince him that based on this Gartner survey about Total Cost of Ownership and that survery and this opinion piece by the shill, Zune was the best product in the market. They tried to supply him with powerpoint slides that will allow him to easily defend the decision. And they tried to tell him confidentially, "look, between you and me, you might not be convinced. But no one got fired for buying Microsoft, on the other hand you go with some with shiny white thing, and if it blows up on your face, you need to explain that".

The thing that tripped them up was that people are not made up multiple parts, one part acting as CIO and other parts as worker bees and some other parts as CEO. So their sales force, so very well trained to sell their stuff by sabotaging the competition got nowhere with Zune.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

The Guardian reported some time ago that "caramel" poop is the new rage in design.

Periodically maroon and those colors are fashionable again and again. So probably the asked which color to make the Zune to a fashion columnist. Forgetting that normal, everyday people don't shit in golden bowl, and associate those colors to other... well, more down-to-earth, so-to-speak, things.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously haven't used the device or are an iTunes fanboi because iTunes is just as buggy, slow, and works just as intermittently as the Zune. The UI of the device (Zune) was atrocious so I don't understand that statement. The software was very unintuitive as well, but iTunes isn't much better. When it takes me 30 minutes to figure out how to put a song on the device after consulting an operating manual and several forums then something is wrong. At least on the Zune software I can drag and drop songs/videos I want onto the device icon. That's pretty intuitive if you ask me.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Making that software super slow and super buggy was also quite bad.

Well, let's be honest, they were competing with iTunes on Windows...

But poor codec support hasn't hurt Apple. AAC/MP3 should be enough for everyone(Unless the Zune didn't support AAC for whatever reason).

What really hurt the Zune was that as an mp3 player, it was outclassed by the iPod and as a touch screen flash based media device(Zune HD), it was outclassed by the iPod Touch. Even if the specs were better(Tegra 1 versus an overclocked iPhone 3G), the iPod Touch has a rich base of applications. The Zune had nothing to leverage. Even worse, Windows Phone 7 can't use Zune apps and the entire ecosystem for apps are separated.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[lexman098]

To be fair, their codec support was much better than Apple's. I love me some h.264

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[Tetsujin]

They made a key strategic error with the Zune - they didn't realize that no one wanted a "poop brown" media device. Ooops.

Well, what happened was they had to make some last-minute cutbacks to the project and so they weren't able to print on the "wood grain" pattern that would have given it the desired late-1970s charm.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[artor3]

I never used a Zune, but you mean to tell me that Microsoft made an MP3 player that couldn't sync with Windows Media Player? If true, that's amazingly awful.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[caywen]

It wasn't just the poop brown. It was also being a half inch thick untapered sharp edged box with almost no peripheral support. There are better industrial designers in the UPS shipping supplies division.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[PPH]

I heard they had to delete the tuning eye as well.

Don't know what one is? Get off of my lawn!

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait a second. Really? I thought it was the Zune itself that was disappointing. You're telling me that the hardware/UI for it was mostly okay, but they couldn't deploy a decent software package on a PC running the operating system that THEY designed, presumably using development tools that they also designed? And they couldn't even do better than iTunes on the same platform (which is to say: they couldn't match mediocre)?????

There's something seriously, seriously wrong there. I've seen the Zune hardware, but I've never seen the software that runs on the PC. Was it really that bad?

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[Meshuggah24]

windows media player was bypassed altogether. if you linked your music folders to your music library within windows the zune and wmp automatically sync to your library.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[NekSnappa]

I use mainly when I am flying because I can move my videos onto it.

Um, shouldn't you be paying attention to the controls or something when you're flying?

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[larry bagina]

You could squirt your poop.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

A poop brown device that "squirts" music? Let the dysentery jokes begin...

Another huge strategic mistake was letting Steve Ballmer have anything to do with promoting it. He's a rabid monkey with a bad temper and no clue what his customers want or how to give it to them without taking a great idea and completely destroying it.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[TheRaven64]

When it takes me 30 minutes to figure out how to put a song on the device after consulting an operating manual and several forums then something is wrong

Maybe it's changed since my iPod died (some years ago now), and the iTunes UI has got worse with every release since 4.2, but I seem to remember the procedure for putting songs on the device was:

1. Plug in the iPod.

If this is too hard, maybe you shouldn't be using computers. Or anything with sharp edges, come to think of it.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[Missing.Matter]

I never used the previous versions, but I personally love 3.0+. It's fast, visually striking, and fun to use. It honestly makes iTunes look like excel by comparison... just a spreadsheet for your music. And it does some things well that iTunes doesn't including folder monitoring, wireless sync, and a much more enjoyable social component. There are some small gripes but overall it's a great music player, and I would use it even if I didn't own a Zune.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

C'mon, I think the bigger mistake was that the poop brown device that Steve Ballmer wanted to squirt at you.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

While I realize you're joking, Apple actually made many, many more strategic mistakes. Forcing me to use the iTunes software was one. Only having a functional version of that software on the Mac was another. Making that software super slow and super buggy on the PC was also quite bad. Rarely updating the firmware and software with any performance or bugfixes was the next mistake. Poor codec support was another. Ignoring their customers was probably the worst (one example of that: anything Apple ever does, ever). The thing that pissed me off the most (though they later fixed it), as an early adopter, was that their software AUTOMATICALLY and without asking, upon initial install, installed QuickTime, Bonjour, Safari, mobile device support, Apple's automatic updater service, moved and rearranged all of my music, as well as converting a good 75% of my music from WMA into some shitty lossy format. It's all really too bad, the UI on the hardware was quite good.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[UnknowingFool]

But poor codec support hasn't hurt Apple. AAC/MP3 should be enough for everyone(Unless the Zune didn't support AAC for whatever reason).

Yes but most consumers care only about MP3s. Apple also supported AAC as it is supposed to be the successor to MP3. Geeks might have cared about Ogg and FLAC but most people didn't know what those were.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[UnknowingFool]

There could be a class on how badly MS screwed up the Zune. In itself, it's not a bad player, but MS made many, many mistakes.

1. Marketing.
   MS going up against the iPod decided to compete against Apple by being obscure. See in the minds of MS, they thought this was "cool" not to let people know that exactly you're trying to sell them. So their strategy to getting marketshare from the market leader involved trying to give the impression that they wanted sell to the fewest people as possible.
2. Software.
   Instead of using Windows Media Player, you had to use the Zune software which most considered beta for a long time after it was released.
3. DRM
   All those PlaysForSure songs that loyal MS customer had bought in the past were incompatible with the Zune. They would have to buy new songs. Also MS screwed their former PlaysForSure partners as well.
4. Product Specifications.
   While the Zune players were pretty good, the problem was they were always behind Apple. The first Zune arguably was ahead of the iPod Classic. The problem was Apple quickly came out with the iPod Touch. The 2nd gen Zune seemed to be designed against the iPod nano. Finally the Zune HD was comparable to the Touch; however, Apple had years to build out their app network which transformed it from a simple media player to extended functionality.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[davester666]

No, because those are video's of maps showing his flight path. And he has to fly at just the right speed, otherwise he'll fly right off the map.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

The first version of the PC software was spectacularly bad. The first generation device was actually pretty damn nice on it's own. It offered a couple features Apple didn't and an interface that didn't involve a hypersensitive touch wheel. Sadly, the software for it was so damn terrible that quite a few people turned around and returned it after they couldn't get it to function on their computer, rendering the device a brick.

Once they did the 'reboot' for the UI software, it was actually pretty nice. A bit bloated, but it worked reasonably well.

Oh, and alot of people liked the brown Zune. The green outer shell didn't show very well in photographs, but in person actually looked pretty unique.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[gnalre]

Don't forget having a killer feature of allowing music sharing among other Zune users, then let the legal departments and music industry interests handicap it to the point of being useless

On the other hand, it is possible the age of standalone music players is coming to an end. Even Apple are struggling to do anything new with them. With smart phones having the music playing built in, the need for separate music players is less pressing...

 

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[MachineShedFred]

It hasn't changed a whole lot. Now, it's:

1. Plug in the iDevice
2. Click on it in the left pane of iTunes, under the helpful "DEVICES" label
3. Click the "Music" tab in the right pane
4. Select the playlists you'd like to sync to your device, or select the box to sync all media
5. Click "Sync"

Yes, it's 500% more complex, but it's still less steps than making a PB&J.

(insert reply here of someone showing how it's less steps to make a PB&J, and thinking that somehow invalidates this post)

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[Dog-Cow]

I have a first-gen iPod Touch, and I will be quite upset if the only successor when it finally dies is an iPhone that requires a data plan and a two year contract to be a usable device. I would also be upset if it cost more than the $200 I paid for a brand-new iPod Touch in 2008.

Re:Their key strategic mistake

[UnknowingFool]

Considering that Apple hasn't killed off the iPod Classic yet you're probably safe for a while. Apple still sells millions of the Classic but not as much as they used to sell. Your Touch will probably die of old age long before Apple decides to discontinue it.

Oh noes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, I was just about to get a Zune, whatever that is.

Bummer

[chispito]

I always preferred Zunes to iPods, even back in the 30GB days. I'm not really interested in getting a smartphone either. Guess I'm not most people.

Re:Bummer

[MightyMartian]

Guess I'm not most people.

And I bet it says so right on the list of contraindications of the koolaid your swallowing.

Re:Bummer

[chispito]

And I bet it says so right on the list of contraindications of the koolaid your [sic] swallowing.

Why the smug reply? I just meant that I don't want a smartphone and fear that full-featured, dedicated MP3 players are on the decline. The demand for such devices must be dwindling, since there isn't much serious competition to iPods anymore, at least not to their hard-disk based models.

Re:Bummer

[SuperKendall]

I thought the Sansa players were still strong alternatives for people that just wanted music they manually placed on a device.

What a joke.

[mosb1000]

Microsoft is a joke. I can't believe they are a successful business, let alone the premiere provider of operating systems and office software. They have no vision for the future, and no drive to make great products. They don't even seem to be interested in making cheap products. They failed when they tried to follow Apple into the MP3 player market, and now they are planning on following Apple into the mobile phone market?! By the time they have a workable solution (if they are ever able to develop one) the market will be saturated with competing devices from manufacturers who actually care about the quality of the products they are making. They should shutter their business and release all their developers to go work on real projects that have a hope of succeeding. The only division worth keeping is the gaming division.

Re:What a joke.

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent post is a joke. At least I hope so.

Re:What a joke.

[NiceGeek]

Why? Seems to be pretty much spot on. MS has been playing catchup for years. Only their obscene warchest (and Office lock-in) has kept them going.

Re:What a joke.

[Anonymous Coward]

"They should shutter their business and release all their developers to go work on real projects that have a hope of succeeding."

While their developers are probably first rate, they have been trained by the M$ management to produce sub-stellar products. If M$ goes away, all of those managers would infect other companies. Can the world really afford that?

Re:What a joke.

[MrEricSir]

Don't be silly, bashing Microsoft is the only proven way to get modded up on Slashdot. Doesn't even matter if what you say is true or not.

Re:What a joke.

[Rising Ape]

They failed when they tried to follow Apple into the MP3 player market, and now they are planning on following Apple into the mobile phone market?!

Apple were not the first into either of those markets, so I don't know why you'd say "follow Apple".

Re:What a joke.

[Daniel Phillips]

"They should shutter their business and release all their developers to go work on real projects that have a hope of succeeding."

While their developers are probably first rate, they have been trained by the M$ management to produce sub-stellar products. If M$ goes away, all of those managers would infect other companies. Can the world really afford that?

True. That's just what happened when Compaq went down.

Re:What a joke.

[Abrisene]

If I've been lost in the desert for three days, I can still decide to follow the newcomer that just came along and looks like he knows where he's going.

Re:What a joke.

[mosb1000]

Who would you say they're following?

Re:What a joke.

[farnsworth]

Apple were not the first into either of those markets, so I don't know why you'd say "follow Apple".

You are following whoever is in front of you, regardless of whether that person is at the front of the line. Apple went, then Microsoft went. So Microsoft followed Apple.

Re:What a joke.

[interkin3tic]

Apple were not the first into either of those markets, so I don't know why you'd say "follow Apple".

You don't? It's because they're doing it so successfully. Kind of like how kids wanted to be like Michael Jordan instead of being like whoever the first guy to play basketball was (meanwhile we future slashdotters were taking apart computers).

Re:What a joke.

[Tetsujin]

Don't be silly, bashing Microsoft is the only proven way to get modded up on Slashdot. Doesn't even matter if what you say is true or not.

It's really true. I mean, I thought making outrageously disrespectful statements about your mom and her promiscuity would be an easy way to get modded up "funny" - but for some reason people seem to think those statements are true...

Re:What a joke.

[caywen]

They should shutter their business and release all their developers to go work on real projects that have a hope of succeeding. The only division worth keeping is the gaming division.

Ridiculous. If you owned the Windows and Office divisions, I seriously doubt you'd "shutter" them and concentrate on gaming. Those business make serious bucks, and shuttering a business is a bit more complicated than ranting about shortcomings of vision.

Re:What a joke.

[Xtifr]

You obviously haven't tried bashing Microsoft here in quite a while. There's plenty of MS fans and/or astroturfers with mod points these days.

Re:What a joke.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft is a joke. I can't believe they are a successful business, let alone the premiere provider of operating systems and office software.

And who would you have take their place?

Office software:
Want to use GroupWise? How about Lotus Notes?
Open Office has finally caught up ... with Office XP.

Server OS:
Linux is great, but it doesn't run Exchange (see above), and if you're using Exchange you might as well use Active Directory. (good luck with Samba in big environments).
And who wants to pay Oracle ten times more in licensing than the equivalent SQL Server would cost and MySQL just doesn't have the same broad support base with 3rd party software.
Then there's SharePoint, which started out as a joke, but has gotten a lot better recently and is stealing business from the more established CMS players (at least on the low-end).

Desktop OS:
MacOS wasn't a real contender until recently.
And Linux has another few years to go before it's ready (Ubuntu is getting close, but not if GNOME can't get its head out of its ass - sorry haven't tried kubuntu).

The only division worth keeping is the gaming division.

Ahh, now you're showing your business acumen. MS Entertainment has only just recently achieved profitability.

Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices Division, the portion of the giant company responsible for Xbox operations (as well as Zune and Games for Windows) brought in $165 million in profits during the company's third quarter of fiscal 2010, which ended March 31. In the same period last year, the division lost $41 million.

That's after they've had quite a few years in the red, so they probably still haven't made back their investment.

Re:What a joke.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because they're successful areas of business are outside of your scope doesn't mean they aren't doing well. After all, you don't really hear about Microsoft's amazing new line of business server software.

Re:What a joke.

[BryanL]

To add to your comment: if someone else starts first and you pass them, they then are following you.

Not that Microsoft entered the portable music device industry first but even if they did, they would still be following Apple's lead once Microsoft fell behind. Even Sony was following Apple soon after the release of the iPod and they had been making portable music devices for decades..

Re:What a joke.

[Rising Ape]

Maybe, but the original poster criticised Microsoft for merely following. Apple, of course, did exactly the same - just more successfully. How much of that success was due to technical merit and how much was due to good marketing, of course, is a different matter.

Imagine the sales conversation

[MrEricSir]

"Hey, I'm looking to buy a music player, like an iPod or something."

"Oh, okay, well what features you you want?"

"Well, I don't really care about having good software, an intuitive interface, or mind if my device will stop working on random days. I just want something that's poop brown."

"Great! Well we have just the product for you..."

Re:Imagine the sales conversation

[Anonymous Coward]

this guy fell for it: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2008/07/tattooed-zune-boy-has-change-of-heart-will-cover-tattoo.ars

Re:Imagine the sales conversation

[PPH]

No doubt targeted at the prison population.

"Have to keister your MP3 player? No problem!"

Re:Imagine the sales conversation

[orangedan]

Personally, I like the zune interface. In my opinion it's better than the "cluttered desktop" UI that apple used and others have been copying. I like the UI in OS X, but thought apple could come up with something more clean for their touch-screen products.

Zune's UI is slick. Well, I have a Zune "HD". I really like navigating through the device. Anecdotal as this may be.

I find most interfaces are only "intuitive" because they're just like every one that's come before, so it's different and people don't like it. Microsoft's been using that to their advantage in the OS market, and get criticized. They do something different on their mobile devices, and get criticized. Developing a good UI is not as easy as it seems...

Re:Imagine the sales conversation

[Anonymous Coward]

You're kind of ignorant, you know. The device did that ONCE, due to a GLITCH. Shit happens. The iPods been through MUCH worse. Also, the brown was the color of a brown wallet. Don't see people complaining. Oh wait.

The only downfall to the Zune originally WAS the software. ...And are you calling the iPod intuitive? Please tell me you're joking...

Copy success

[SpaghettiPattern]

Copying successful competitor isn't something to be ashamed of.

Unless you fail that is... Twice potentially...

Oh yeah?

[MrEricSir]

Those aren't crickets! That's a WMA file of recorded cricket sounds being streamed from Microsoft directly to my Zune!

Re:Oh yeah?

[CaseCrash]

being streamed from Microsoft directly to my Zune!

it doesn't do that. I know, I've had both versions.

Re:Oh yeah?

[lennier1]

Unfortunately the crickets ended quite abruptly, since Microsoft has turned off their DRM servers.

Re:Oh yeah?

[MrEricSir]

How can it stop playing?! I have PlaysForSure(TM)!

Re:Oh yeah?

[MachineShedFred]

=~ s/streamed/squirted/i;

Fixed.

So Nokia phones will now be the new Zune platform

[RichMan]

It all begins to make sense now. Nokia does windows phones and they get their multimedia content from the Zune store.

Ahhhh.

I like Zune better than iTunes

[rsilvergun]

At least the UI. It's cleaner and faster, even if you compare it to iTunes on a Mac. They had some nasty music deleting bugs earlier on though, which is great fun when you paid for the tracks instead of having them on CD.

Zunes are durable too, at least 1st Gen. My ugly brown Zune is still going strong, and it was $100 at a time when a 30 gig iPod was $400 :D.

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[brunes69]

That's like saying "I like having my eyeballs gouged out with toothpicks better than having my balls gnawed off my wildebeests"

Both iTunes and Zune are HORRIBLE pieces of software.

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[SpryGuy]

I respectfully disagree.

Zune 4.x is a great piece of software. Beautiful UI (blows anything Apple has done out of the water), functional, effective, and easy to use. So much better than iTunes that it's laughable.

The UI on the device itself is also superior.

Of course they had a very rocky start, and it didn't get decent until version 3.x ... typical of all Microsoft products actually (first version is a disaster, second version is better but still painful, third versino actually works).

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

Zune 4.x is a great piece of software. Beautiful UI (blows anything Apple has done out of the water), functional, effective, and easy to use.

Well, THAT explains the cancellation. Can't have decent software running around making the rest of the company look bad, can we? ;)

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

can you stream some wildebeest ball licking porn to my zune?

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

One time I was a contract tester at MS, first day, the boss said "I'll find someone to show you around." by the time he returned I filed two new bugs; then averaged twice the number of bugs per week than any other tester; I was told "You're doing so well you're making the FTE's look bad." jokingly, I thought...

Two weeks later I was let go...

(anon since I'm currently contracting at MS again in a much better group... )

I've contractor'd on over a dozen different product teams within MS Office, Windows, MSN/Live... there is a lot of differance between product groups; the personality gap between Office and XBox is huge, which can be good since they are catering to two different markets.

So as much as people like to characterize MS as a 'Borg Cube'... there are also Spheres, and the occasional Dodecahedron...

(I just had a terrible thought... if the Borg assimilated the Ferengi...)

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[SonofSmog]

The Zune desktop software is a thing of beauty. And I was a hardcore Winamp loyalist!

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[SonofSmog]

The Zune software is fantastic, and the visualizations are brilliant.

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[Missing.Matter]

Zune software isn't dying. Windows Phone uses it to sync.

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

Both iTunes and Zune are HORRIBLE pieces of software.

This is outdated information sir (and has been for a while). The Zune software is fast, friendly, and a work of art to look at. The only complaint would be it's name -- it's hard to tell if 'Zune software' refers to the s/w on the Zune device, or the client on the PC, or the entire software ecosystem. Interestingly enough, the statement holds true for all interpretations. I have nothing but the highest praise for the Zune's software.

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

=usbmuxd + libimobiledevice
>not having to put up with bullshit lockin

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[dafing]

I'm interested, what dont you like about iTunes? I presume you are using a Windows version? I've heard complaints from Windows users, before, never from any of my Mac using friends.

On my iMac, iTunes is very fast to load, scrolls through my 100GB+ of music, audiobooks and podcasts smoothly, and has all the features I could ever want, and more. It gives me access to the worlds largest music store, the App Store which has redefined how we use software, and even "ping", which, while very slow to get off the ground, is fun in its own simple way.

Perhaps the question is, what the hell else is there to use? Winamp? "Windows Media Player", whatever its calling itself these days. I still remember running "Classic" as it wasnt AS ugly, it was faster etc.

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[aiht]

can you stream some wildebeest ball licking porn to my zune?

"Squirt". It's called "squirting". Get it right. *shudders*

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[b0bby]

I'm interested, what dont you like about iTunes?

The main thing I don't like about iTunes is: I rip a cd, add it to the directory where all my music is kept, and then have to go to add a folder to the library. The Zune software finds whatever I put in the directory. It's a little thing, but it's annoying. I assume it's because iTunes either wants you to buy from their store or rip with iTunes; I stick with EAC for ripping, and if I buy downloads I use Amazon's mp3s. iTunes used to be really slow, but it's not as bad these days, it's mainly that I don't fully embrace the iTunes experience I guess.

Re:I like Zune better than iTunes

[SpryGuy]

It'll be interesting to see if they rename it.

It'll also be interesting to see what the future holds, given the overlap of utilities on Windows now: Windows Media Player, Windows Media Center, and the Zune Software. There are rumors of some consolidation there.

Nokia ZunePhone?

[PolygamousRanchKid]

The company will concentrate on putting Zune software onto mobile phones such as those running Microsoft’s Windows operating system

So something makes me think that this will be bundled with Nokia's future Windows Phone 7 devices. They will try to be like Apple with iPhone/iTunes.

Good luck with that.

Re:Nokia ZunePhone?

[SpryGuy]

The Zune experience is already in every WP7 phone sold. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here.

Re:Nokia ZunePhone?

[tepples]

The Zune experience is already in every WP7 phone sold.

And so is an obligation to a 24-month voice and data service contract, as far as I know.

Re:Nokia ZunePhone?

[mikael_j]

"The Zune experience"? I keep seeing that phrase pop up, did they rename the software to "The Zune experience" or something? Because I can't figure out if that's Prince's latest name or something from a soda commercial...

Re:Nokia ZunePhone?

[cbhacking]

I realize it's fashionable to know absolutely nothing about MS products on here, but I feel I should provide a small dose of reality: All Windows Phone 7 devices include Zune playback capability, including ZunePass streaming and downloads (unlimited music access for a monthly subscription, with the ability to permanently download 10 high-quality DRM-free MP3s each month). Codec support includes AAC and MP3 in addition to WMA. Still no PlaysForSure compatibility, of course, but anything purchased from the Zune store will work.

Granted, Nokia's new WP7 devices will of course include this too, so in a way you're right. You're just about 5 months behind the times.

The what now?

[GrahamCox]

Zune, Zune, Zune.... errrrmmm... oh, that thing!

Re:The what now?

[Tetsujin]

Zune, Zune, Zune.... errrrmmm... oh, that thing!

Yeah, I know what you mean. Sometimes I have trouble remembering all this Microsoft crap, and then suddenly - bing! - it comes to me.

Re:The what now?

[joelleo]

bahahahahahah I see what you did there =)

Re:The what now?

[Tetsujin]

Yeah, isn't it great?

It took me weeks of painstaking humor research to come up with that one. Countless variations were formulated, tested, and ultimately rejected. It took many hours of logical deduction and mathematical derivation to attempt to directly solve the problem of writing that joke: finally, I had to take what I'd learned and feed it into a numerical solver engine and let it run for a week - finally, in the end, it did converge on a solution, and I am very grateful all that work was not wasted!

2 Questions...

[Charliemopps]

What's a Zune? Microsofts spell check doesn't even recognize it.
and
When did Microsoft get into smartphones?

Re:2 Questions...

[Goaway]

Yeah, some days, I kind of wish I'd slept through the last five or so years, too.

I have seen this before...

[Stregano]

This is exactly what happened to the N-Gage and N-Gage QD. It was getting outsold by so many other phones, so N-Gage 2 was just software for phones. Weird enough, Microsoft is shifting to go software only for phones media devices, like what Nokia did with the N-Gage, and Nokia is supposed to be doing a bunch of W7M phones.

It's all in the name.

[Sponge Bath]

They should have called it Happy Fun Ball, then nobody would taunt them.

Cue Steve Jobs yelling...

[Un pobre guey]

"...I Am Sparta!" at the top of his lungs.

Re:Cue Steve Jobs yelling...

[ackthpt]

"...I Am Sparta!" at the top of his lungs.

More like "iSparticus!"

Re:Cue Steve Jobs yelling...

[the_fat_kid]

Or "THIS IS APPLE!"
before kicking Steve Balmer into a pit full of chairs.

Really?

[RevWaldo]

So zune?

.

Re:Really?

[Starteck81]

Too zune, dude. Too zune.

No iPod Touch competition?

[jj00]

Who knows if this rumor is true, but it sure does sound plausible considering we haven't heard a thing from them. I don't have a Zune, but I always hoped that someday they would get around to making a real competitor to the iPod Touch. I can understand cell phone manufacturers not being interested because the profit margin is so much higher for cell phones, but I'd think a company like Microsoft would be a big enough company to subsidize such a project.

Re:No iPod Touch competition?

[CaseCrash]

The HD Zune is a touch screen device. I love mine. (But then again Apple products frustrate me)

Re:No iPod Touch competition?

[shutdown -p now]

It would be interesting to see the sales figures for iPod Touch, especially after iPhone rise to dominance. I suspect that it is a dying market - why have two devices of the same form factor when you can have one? Which would explain this decision, too - keep in mind that every WP7 phone ships with a music player, which, as I understand, is pretty close to what can be seen on Zune HD. The music store remains (and is integrated with phones) as well.

Re:No iPod Touch competition?

[jo_ham]

The iPod Touch still sells well since it does all of the App Store stuff that the iPhone does, but is *considerably* cheaper, if you don't want a phone.

Re:No iPod Touch competition?

[quacking duck]

Remember that the iPod touch was introduced *after* the iPhone, because there was enough demand from those who didn't want a smartphone (or didn't want to pay the additional $30+/month for a data plan).

If anything, the iPod classic is suffering more from the iPhone/iPod introduction. The only thing the classic has going for it is the huge capacity for a digital player: 160 GB. Everything else--battery life, screensize (for video), apps, weight, etc is beaten by the iPod touch.

Re:No iPod Touch competition?

[Anonymous Coward]

They are selling about 5 million a quarter (not broken out from total iPods, but well-reasoned and supported by numerous analyses already): about as many Zunes as Microsoft sold in 4 years.

Re:No iPod Touch competition?

[steve_bryan]

Ha! The iPod touch has almost all the advantages of an iPhone without the $100 per month tribute paid to the cellphone carrier oligarchy. You can even use an iPod touch to make calls with Skype and others for free if you have wifi available. Those who examine Apple statements have estimated about a 3 to 2 ratio of iPhones to iPod touch. That would make it a huge part of the iOS market. The absence of a worthy iPod touch type device for other mobile OS's is a shocking oversight that inhibits their appeal to independent developers

Re:No iPod Touch competition?

[viking099]

I'm personally hoping for a non-gimped Android tablet in a smaller form factor.

There are a few around, but they're locked down too tightly, and I'd like to see something of a standard, even if it's just "Oh hey, here's our Android phone without the phone."

Re:No iPod Touch competition?

[cbhacking]

The ZuneHD had the hardware to be a viable iPod Touch competitor. In a way, it even had the software; leaving aside a somewhat dated browser rendering engine, it had some nice capabilities. It was targeted much more at media than the iTouch is, with things like HD Radio and HD video decoding for HDMI output. It also has some nice games and a handful of non-game apps.

The problem, aside from being late to the party and not marketing it as well as they should have, is that MS missed the boat on making it a superior general purpose device. The interface is great if you're looking to play media (no, I don't have one, but I'm friends with some former MS interns who received them last year) but has no app-centric view like modern smarphones... or the iTouch. The XNA dev toolkit allows some neat games, and is available for free, but it's very game-focused and doesn't provide anything like the general-purpose capability you can get on iOS.

Time machine sends back Slashdot story from 2020

[Anonymous Coward]

"Microsoft announces today that it will be suspending production on it's WinPhone. We want to focus our attention on the next big thing just as soon as Apples let's us know what that is."

Yet another Quality Microsoft Colossal Failure

[ackthpt]

Hey, I have an idea, why don't they focus on their core products and stop messing around with things they're no good at - everything where they don't hold a near monopoly.

Re:Yet another Quality Microsoft Colossal Failure

[shadowthunder]

'cept that the Zune HD was a beautiful piece of hardware running fantastic software on both the device itself and on the desktop side. Windows Phone improves in almost every area (it did take away a few small things that really helped make the Zune OS so good). Simply because a product doesn't sell successfully, that doesn't mean that it isn't any good. I'd wager that you haven't used a Zune HD once nor have you given the Zune software a fair shot.

Re:Yet another Quality Microsoft Colossal Failure

[Starteck81]

While it's true that Microsoft hasn't been successful in too many markets that it didn't pioneer there are a few exceptions. The xbox comes to mind.

Re:Yet another Quality Microsoft Colossal Failure

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny thing is, they're damn good at this Zune stuff. I think it's far from being a failure -- they're just reacting (in time, for a change) to an obvious market shift -- consolidation of devices that will fit in the consumer's pocket. There might still be a market for standalone mp3 players, but its marginal at best.

Re:Yet another Quality Microsoft Colossal Failure

[Anonymous Coward]

The continual string of failures is probably about the best thing Microsoft could do. Even a behemoth of Microsoft's size will eventually die if it doesn't innovate and change. They can afford to fail, and fail, and fail. One mega hit can pay for a lot of failures. Hitting the right market in the right way at the right time can make billions. Their capital is enviable. Venture capitalists know this, blow millions here, blow millions there, strike it big every once in a while.

Frankly, with they way they operate, I'd expect in 50 years Apple computer will be gone and Microsoft will be something unrecognizable.

Re:Yet another Quality Microsoft Colossal Failure

[cbhacking]

Like the Xbox line? 15 years ago, the idea of a MS console was ridiculous. 10 years ago, it was seen as a joke and widely predicted to be a waste of money and effort, at least on sites like this. 5 years ago it was seen as being so error-prone, and such a money sinkhole for the company, that people predicted it would be quitely retired. Last year, it broke sales records hard, introduced a cool new peripheral that is now in Guinness Book of World Records for its sales rate, and moved from being a hardcore-gamers-only device to a living room entertainment system for the family.

Then there's things like MS mice and keyboards - hardly a monopoly, but quite popular and generally highly recommended. SQL Server is nowhere near monopoly status, but does just fine for itself. Visual Studio and .NET are also doing very well. I don't know if Azure is profitable yet, but it's certainly gaining adherents.

There's a lot of potential for MS to experiment in other markets. It has the size and cash to support some abject failures (Kin, compared to which Zune was a huge success) in order to try and find the next big thing (Kinect worked out great over the last few months; who knows what the next one will be?)

Windows Phone Next

[jbplou]

If theyr're smart Windows Phone 7 will be next. Plus they are foolishly trying to bring laptop style Windows to tablets while Apple is selling millions using iOS.

Re:Windows Phone Next

[fnj]

But they are not smart. If they were smart, their operating system would be halfway usable and reliable.

Kiler feature:

[blind biker]

"Squirt".

Just what kind of demographic did they think they were targeting with such choice of vocabulary?

Re:Kiler feature:

[Sponge Bath]

Bukkake fans?

Re:Kiler feature:

[GrumblyStuff]

Slightly taller and balder George Costanza impersonators?

Re:Kiler feature:

[Belial6]

Maybe the same people that were buying semen colored MP3 players? OK, your right. Squirt is a stupid name. I think they were just trying to be hip like Google or Twitter.

Re:Kiler feature:

[fwarren]

I would presume bukkake fans would be more interested in a video device, than an audio device if that was the case.

Re:Kiler feature:

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple users. Open your port wide and let me squirt this hot goodness in there!

Re:Kiler feature:

[gtall]

MS's marketing department currently strikes me as the 57 year old fellow who hosts a party while wearing a synthetic leisure suit cracking synthetic jokes and trying act like he's part of the 20 year old crowd. It's embarrassing but no one has the guts to tell him the truth since he's providing the food and drinks.

new slant on the age old adage?

[Anonymous Coward]

embrace break your own trend, follow someone else's,

extend, come out some time later with a version 2

extinguish, decide even later after it's not working and go back to what you know and love.

Re:Time machine sends back Slashdot story from 202

[sapgau]

+1

Missing tag:

[Psicopatico]

nomoresquirt

Worse than that

[jamrock]

They made a key strategic error with the Zune - they didn't realize that no one wanted a "poop brown" media device.

Even more unsavory, it's a poop brown device that "squirts". It would probably have sold better if they had bundled each device with with a packet of wet wipes and a bottle of Purell.

What is with the obsession?

[Belial6]

I'm not sure where all this fecal mania at Slashdot comes from. Every time there is a product that is brown, the fecalphiles come out of the woodwork and start claiming that the product looks like poop. It seems to be an obsession around here. Ubuntu did not look like poop. It was brown. It was earth tones. The Zune did not look like poop any more than an iPod looked like a hand full of semen. In other words. Not at all. Unpleasant things come in pretty much every color. Associating every brown product with poop speaks more to the person making the association than it does to the product.

Re:What is with the obsession?

[Missing.Matter]

Not to mention it came in three different colors: Brown, White, and Black. Only the original Zune 30 was offered in brown as well.

Re:What is with the obsession?

[oldmac31310]

Actually, Ubuntu did look like 'poop'!

Re:What is with the obsession?

[Belial6]

Only to fecalphiles.

Re:What is with the obsession?

[Anonymous Coward]

I assume they're planning to shove it up their ass and the association is impossible to forget once made. Oops.

Seriously, though, I don't get the hate for earth tones either. Ubuntu's original color scheme was my favorite. I think these people may be irredeemable crackers. Come to think of it, that may explain the obsession with poop, too.

Or is it from living in bigger cities where you see poop more often than soil? That always freaks me out when I'm in New York (which I do love) for over a week - there are, effectively, no insects there in much of Manhattan. I'm used to walking out my door and being literally assaulted by living things, but what little soil is around those trees you do pass is practically sterile. I guess the parks help, though. And at least they have bed bugs now, so that's...awesome.

Re:What is with the obsession?

[oldmac31310]

There is no such word as fecalphile. The word you are looking for is coprophile.

"...as well as pay a monthly fee..."

[Samantha Wright]

I like how it "lets customers [...] pay a monthly fee to stream music" instead of "lets customers [...] stream music, for a monthly fee". Yeah, MS, I want to pay a monthly fee! You're brilliant guys!

Well, that's the point of it, right?

[ackthpt]

Those aren't crickets! That's a WMA file of recorded cricket sounds being streamed from Microsoft directly to my Zune!

They actual crickets have been fed to the office toad, but the service lives on ...

Expect some delays if you ever need help, though.

"Play For Sure" Anyone?

[sk999]

The end of Zune is not problem here - glad I stuck with my "Play For Sure" music player ... oh wait.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoft/2004074417_playsforsure15.html

Love my Zune - Love the Zune Desktop Software More

[SonofSmog]

I just got a 16 MB HD Zune and frankly it's everything I ever wanted out of a MP3 player. Plays MP3's. Check. Sounds Great. Check. Awesome Interface. Check. As for the Zune Desktop software. Bitchin is the only word I can used to describe it. Made me put Winamp down after more than 10 loyal years! I only download and listen to full albums and this thing lets me manage them with ease. And you haven't seen visualizations until you've seen the Zune pull up photos of your artist over a psychedelic background and start panning and zooming while "tracks plays" and the artists biography scroll across the screen.

A Better Analogy (Re:I like Zune better than ...)

[EXTomar]

A better analogy would be like saying "iTunes is like a toothpick to the right eye while Zune is like a toothpick to the left eye. Since I favor my right eye more, I think Zune is great!"

Re:Time machine sends back Slashdot story from 202

[whereiswaldo]

Just priceless

So much for "iPod killer."

[alex_guy_CA]

I've always thought that people who think som other media player/phone/service/tablet will be the [LEADING BRAND] killer are dumb as toast, but when one of the products they touted as [LEADING BRAND] killer just dies, I have to chuckle uncharitably at their expense.

I always knew /. was an anti-Microsoft circlejerk

[shadowthunder]

...but this is absolutely pathetic.

Does anyone remember the original iPods? They were absolutely terrible, and had almost nothing revolutionary about them. And now they're the largest-selling portable media players.

Sure, the original Zunes (both hardware and software) were miserable to use, but the Zune HD and Zune 4 kick the shit out of iPods and iTunes in all of hardware, software, interface, and back-end service (iTunes Store vs. Zune Pass). I'd be willing to bet that almost every single negative comment about them here either a) have zero experience with them, b) used extremely old and out-dated versions, or c) didn't give the distinctly unique interface a second glance. I admit, it's very different and takes some getting used to, but it's hella better than any alternatives I've used (being Windows Media Player, WinAmp, iTunes, VLC, and MediaMonkey for the software, and iPod Nano and iPod Touch for the hardware) for music.

Point is: give shit a fair chance before nay-saying it. I don't mean "reading multiple reviews", "watch the keynote", "look at the screenshots", or "go to the store to check it out". For software, use it as your primary media player/internet browser/OS/word processor/whatever else for a week or more and see what you think and how you feel after that. For hardware, hell - go ahead and buy it. You've got 30 days to decide whether you like it.

The Zune Killer

[Anonymous Coward]

So Zune wasn't the ipod killer they boasted, Zune killed itself...

So, Zune customers got 'Zuned' ?

[unity100]

zuned as in being a term, like 'borked' ?

"It was so zuned that .... i dont know man, i got zunes in my stomach when i woke up"

or

"We got so zuned that we crapped out of our mouth for two days" .....

like that ...

Re:I always knew /. was an anti-Microsoft circleje

[unity100]

despite original ipods, ipod line had not been discontinued, service to ipods has not been ceased, and the buyers of the ipods are still able to play their music, whereas zune customers got shafted by drm.

360 Slim yes, 360 no

[Anonymous Coward]

The 360 was a good idea, I don't know about it being a good product though, quite a few of them have broken and they basically needed a complete redesign to end the problems. The 360 Slim is a good product.

Huh?

[Rufty]

What is this "Zune" of which you speak???

Microsoft decided they needed more time

[okmijnuhb]

Microsoft decided they needed more time to study how to make second rate imitations of the latest Apple products. But they're even behind the curve on being behind the curve, and while dropping the copying of Apple's decade old iPod, for the 3 year old iPhone, they've neglected to begin full scale imitation of the Apple iPad released last year. Someone should explain to Microsoft the difference between innovation, and imitation.

Ahhh Zune it!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

So they finally said ahhh fuck it.

Ceasing development probably becuase...

[Anonymous Coward]

...the market has been saturated, what with the sales that have been such a success.

I all seriousness, this is sad news because it means less competition in a decreasingly innovative market.

I love my zunes

[Anonymous Coward]

I love my zunes - they are durable (including the batteries). I have two 120GB HDD (one was replaced at no cost by Microsoft after water damage) that must be at least two years old. I hated my iPods - terrible batteries. And I really hate iTunes, especially as it seemeddDependant on that quickslime. I think this is not good for competition.

Re:I always knew /. was an anti-Microsoft circleje

[shadowthunder]

How did Zune customers "get shafted by DRM"? The only DRM-touched songs are those past the 10/month with Zune Pass. An extra $2.50 each month for unlimited streaming and non-permanent downloads. None of the Zune services are being touched, and I will still be able to get my HD serviced for years to come.

The only true part of your post was that iPods have not been discontinued, but Zunes have.

One word why not: "Squirting."

[zooblethorpe]

Those aren't crickets! That's a WMA file of recorded cricket sounds being streamed from Microsoft directly to my Zune!

No, no, the official terminology is squirting, as amply demonstrated by Ballmer's disturbing money quote:

I want to squirt you a picture of my kids. You want to squirt me back a video of your vacation. That's a software experience.

Frankly, a bit too soft for my preference. Methinks the Ballmer needs more roughage in his diet -- and perhaps some time familiarizing himself with the connotations of his word choices, the better to avoid any similar outbreaks of logorrhea (a.k.a. "runny brain") in future.

Zune HD is the best audio device on the market

[Radhruin]

Seriously, coupled with Zune Pass and the HD Dock, it's amazing.

Can we get rid of the Gates Borg avatar now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, Bill Gates no longer runs Microsoft. It's time to retire the Gates Borg avatar. Besides, this new Gates Borg sucks. The old one really did look like Gates of Borg. This new one just looks like he's wearing some kind of XBOX360 accessory.

Windows 7 nightmare

[Anonymous Coward]

I just brought home a brand new Dell computer with Windows 7. It has been 3 hours so far, and it is still downloading updates. I haven't even begun removing crap-ware yet. I still have not succeeded in getting any DirectX 9 games to run. The out of the box user experience is CRAP!

Also, this brand new computer has been rebooted multiple times because of updates. Each login requires 47 seconds from hitting return in the password dialog to desktop appearing. This is a new Core i3 with 4 Gig and a ATI Radion 5550 card. Microsoft need to stop pedding such shit software.

Re:Windows 7 nightmare

[Dog-Cow]

I know you're just a lying piece of crap, but just in case you're not... you need to stop buying Dell. I upgraded my older PC to Win 7 and it plays every game I throw at it perfectly. I don't have any DirectX 11 games; they are all 9 or 10. And this is on Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit.

phone and zune not related?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since they took the Zune and extended it to make Windows Phone 7, I assumed they would port that tech back and make Zunes that are basically phones minus the phone like the iPhone and iPod Touch? This does not bode well for the platform. I was considering programming for this platform, but now not so sure.

Does it run ...

[PPH]

... Linux?

Seriously, is there a port? I get the feeling that some cheap hardware will be coming on the market.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Well I guess you have to rebel against something

[Brannon]

you are about 15 years old--so it makes sense.

Still sad to see this generation equating Apple with Microsoft's willful monopolistic mis-conduct during the 80s and 90s. Now go tweeter about how oppressed you are.

Re:Love my Zune - Love the Zune Desktop Software M

[c00rdb]

16MB? How many songs does that hold, 4?

News from the F-U-T-U-R-E

[neoshroom]

Microsoft Reportedly Ends Windows Phone Development
Posted by TmTvlr on March 14, 05:33 PM 2014
from the breaking-news-from-the-future dept.

"Microsoft Corp. will cease introducing new versions of the Windows Phone and Windows Tablet amid tepid demand, helping the company shift its focus to whatever Apple happens to be doing at the moment, according to a person familiar with the decision. The company will concentrate on integrating Windows Tablet software onto desktop computers such as those running Microsoft’s Windows operating system, said the person, who declined to be identified because the decision hasn’t been announced and won't be announced for three years. Windows Tablet software lets customers buy songs and movies, as well as pay a monthly fee to stream unlimited music."

I guess MS' big mistake was

[NotSoHeavyD3]

Not renaming their portable music player to anything else when Zune didn't do that well. I mean how well would Win7 do if they marketed it as Vista 2.0.

Glad MS finally got it

[dafing]

Zune sales stopped five years ago! ;-)

Seriously, the thing wasnt even sold "worldwide", and its not Mac compatible, hey guys, you know the hot new platform, that all the cool kids are buying? And this group dont seem to care about up front cost, when they want good quality, great design?

I've been trying to get a BROWN Zune secondhand, just to add to my collection of failed products. It would go great with my CueCats, Power Glove and Newtons

Re:Love my Zune - Love the Zune Desktop Software M

[Anonymous Coward]

4 songs if it didn't have system software on it. As it is not all the software fits!

Re:I always knew /. was an anti-Microsoft circleje

[UnknowingFool]

I think he's referring to anyone who bought PlaysForSure music and found out that the Zune wouldn't play even though it came from the same company, MS. And how MS wanted to shut down the PlaysForSure authentication servers so that owners would be stuck without any way to authenticate their music in the upcoming years. The music would play fine as long as you never lost your HD or had to rebuild your computer or buy another computer. After some pressure MS agreed to leave a few of them running. MS never clearly stated why they felt it was necessary to even shut them down.

Innovation stops when the founders step down.

[StandardAI]

Once the companies make it to the top and the founders step down, there's no reason to spend money on innovation. The ones left behind to run things are more than happy with their cushion jobs, as long as they just keep on collecting that money leadership isn't going to care. I would bet that there are many Microsoft employees who have a lot of great ideas for some new amazing tech, but the people running the show wouldn't even give them a chance to start up another project.

Here are the two products Microsoft has produced that the future will remember for a while, that is Windows and the X-Box. For apple it will always be their odd computer and laptop designs, and for of course the ipod and iphone, apple right now has the coolest brand out there. I mean look at the Ipad, I would say the reason most people purchase them is because of the brand name alone. The pad thing has been around for years before, and you can do a lot more with a netbook, but because it has some shiny apple glass and charges twice as much as a netbook the people with money buy it as a status thing. I bought one for my wife because it's what she wanted. Sony will always be known for their sound systems, televisions and of course their gaming systems.

Innovation gets us to the moon, however many people do not like change.

I didn't realize...

[Anonymous Coward]

When did Microsoft start making an iPod?

Too bad...

[Anonymous Coward]

The latest version of the Zune hardware *is* finally better than Apple's iPod. The Zune software though is weak compared to iTunes.

HD Radio devices

[rwa2]

Hmm, I was actually thinking of getting a Zune HD in order to use it to receive HD radio broadcasts from home and in the car. Most of the other receivers I'd seen were pretty expensive. Any good alternatives there?

Still, disappointed that our local NPR station considers most of their programming "talk radio", so Prarie Home Companion and This American Life play in low bitrate mono. FM sounds much better with the handful of shows that would make me actually want to upgrade to HD radio :-P

Say it ain't so!

[modi123]

Ugh! Noooooo! I bumped up to the 30gb gen 1 Zune (black to my dismay instead of the chocolate) from a 10gb Toshiba Gigabeat. A tremendous leap forward. I was alaways impressed by the durability of the hardware, succinct interface, and the software on my PC. Their iterations were right on the nose. My only gripe was the usb/wall charger thing was brutal on the cord. I have had this Zune for about four years now and I have been eyeballing jumping to the HD. It seems the HDs will be a bit cheaper (or spike in price due to collector's items?). So kudos there.

Man what a waste. Hopefully my Zune HD last for ever!

Re:Say it ain't so!

[b0bby]

If the HD shows up on Woot for $60 (like my classic brown 30GB) I'll be all over it!

too many bugs

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a zune for about a week, and I could not get it to play songs in order. It was way too buggy & I went back to my ancient iPod mini.

Re:I always knew /. was an anti-Microsoft circleje

[intheshelter]

I think he must mean the Plays for Sure customers got shafted by DRM. Still a MS circle-jerk, but it was their previous attempt to dethrone Apple's lead in this market.

Microsoft's Preemptive Responce

[Anonymous Coward]

As of 9:30 pm yesterday, this was Microsoft's response on the official Zune Facebook:http://www.facebook.com/Zune/posts/10150109964088963

Zune came out too late!

[TWToxicity]

The Zune was introduced to the market after EVERYONE had an iPod. Once people use apple products, they are too stupid to even consider using better products, which is why sales of Zune hardware have more or less failed. Zune also comes out with way better earphones that last more than 10 minutes.

Re:Love my Zune - Love the Zune Desktop Software M

[Stuarticus]

Totally, and 16MB should be more than enough for anyone.

Re:Love my Zune - Love the Zune Desktop Software M

[SonofSmog]

Don't be a tool. 137 Albums 2122 songs so far, and there is about 4 gigs to spare. Be real. I don't want a hard drive based mp3 player. My SanDisk was a flash based player too. It's not like I don't sit in front of a computer all day if I want to change some albums out.

Re:Love my Zune - Love the Zune Desktop Software M

[c00rdb]

How do you have 4 GIGS to spare on a 16MB player?

Re:I always knew /. was an anti-Microsoft circleje

[shadowthunder]

Yeah, that's the one downside, I guess. I'm running with an SSD for boot, then 500 gigs internal and 1 TB external, so 120 megs didn't warrant a second glance for me.

Also, weird, because the fully-installed program is a little less than 80 MB. Still, something to note if you're running an SSD exclusively, though.