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Ask Slashdot: How Do You Choose a Windows Laptop?
jfruhlinger writes "I'm a Mac guy. When our 2004-era Windows XP laptop, which was used primarily by my wife, died last summer, I got myself a new MacBook Pro and she inherited my still serviceable 2008 MacBook. But after about six months, she hasn't gotten used to it, and wants a Windows machine. I don't have an ideological problem with this — it'd be her computer, and we've got a bit of money stashed away to pay for it. But trying to pick one out is my job, and I find the the whole process bewildering. Apple's product differentiation is great at defeating the paradox of choice — you have a few base models, the difference between which is quite obvious, and you can customize each. The Windows world seems totally different. Even once I've settled on a vendor for a Windows laptop (something I haven't done yet), each seems to have a bewildering array of product lines with similar specs. Often models that you find in electronics or office supply stores that seem promising in terms of form factor are exclusive to those stores and can't be found online. Obviously people do navigate this process, but I'm just feeling out of my depth. How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?"
Just install windows on the mac?
The same way as a Linux laptop.
Math is beautiful... e^(pi*i)+1=0
and consider that i will eventually be wiping windows off and installing Linux on it...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Why on earth would you give your MacBook Pro to your dead wife?
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
You say "she hasn't gotten used to it, and wants a Windows machine". Do you mean she hasn't gotten used to Mac OS X and wants to use Windows? Just use Boot Camp and install Windows on your MacBook, problem solved. If you mean she is using Windows on your MacBook and there is something about the MacBook itself she doesn't like, perhaps you should elaborate on what specifically it is she doesn't like about the hardware as that's probably something you should take into account in your next purchase.
These days almost all laptops have sucky screen resolution (13xx x 768). Particularly at the 14" and 15" sizes. Find a machine with a decent screen and you'll find a decent laptop. A few months ago I got my wife a HP Envy 14 with the 1600x900 screen, i5 CPU, and 4GB RAM. Suites her needs quite nicely.
It really doesn't matter which one you pick, unless you're running some kind of new-ish games on it, or something else that's super CPU or video intensive. The hardware is so ahead of what's needed for most people at this point, that just about anything made within the past 10 years works fine for most purposes. When I'm buying PC's (or laptops) for my company, I just find some refurbished model that has 2-4 GB RAM, and a decent hard drive. The rest of the specs really don't matter unless you have very specific needs. I don't know why a PC would be "obsolete" in the literal sense. Most of my PC's and laptops and servers were all made in the early 2000's and all run Windows XP and all do everything I need them to do just fine. I generally shoot for $300-400 for a laptop.
I don't respond to AC's.
I have always used Dell laptops or ones provided by work (HP). I purchased a Dell netbook for my wife assuming that during her time at home it would be portable and easy for her to carry around. After a couple of months she decided it was just too small and underpowered for her and she wanted something else.
We only had a few requirements: built in mic and webcam (Skype with the grandparents), Windows, and a 10-key pad.
NewEgg had a Lenovo laptop which met all those requirements for ~$475. We picked it up and it arrived a few days later. Widescreen, 10-key, mic but a bit of a lame webcam. The rest of the specs are irrelevant as my wife doesn't need anything except Firefox, Word, and Excel.
But the important thing about Lenovo wasn't the hardware. The important thing was when it began shutting down unexpectedly and without warning after 30 minutes of heavy CPU usage (like when my wife was catching up on her shows on Hulu).
I contacted Lenovo support. I explained the problem and what I had done to test it. There was no usual bullshit required script I had to run through with the person on the phone. Nope. They e-mailed us the instructions on how to ship it back and we did.
It arrived at their facility in Texas on the 15th. On the 16th FedEx knocked at our door with the repaired laptop.
Lenovo will get my laptop business again and again until they break the trust level they created with that wonderful service exchange--arguably the best service I have ever received from any manufacturer in my 25 years of dealing with these things.
Good luck.
Just buy a Latitude or Thinkpad. You can't go terribly wrong with either.
Almost all consumer laptops are terrible. Get a business laptop if you want something that is any good. Some examples are HP's EliteBook and ProBook lines, Dell's Precision and Latitude lines, and Lenovo's ThinkPad line. Generally speaking, if a laptop doesn't have a trackpoint/pointing stick, it isn't worth having. It doesn't matter if you want to use it or not, it is a good indication of the quality of a laptop. Business laptops generally have: Better Battery life Better reliability No crapware More durable designs Higher performance Better keyboards and Anti-Glare screens Better conductivity and support for a docking station Better and longer warranties
First question to ask yourself is: What does your wife want to do with her Windows laptop?
There are a bunch more factors you can consider (for example, maybe you're not planning to give Sony any more money). But until we know what your wife wants a Windows laptop for, it's pretty difficult to point you in any specific direction.
BTW, you might want to make sure she's comfortable with Windows 7, too. If all she wants is Windows XP, you might skip the stores and start looking other places (eBay, Craigslist).
Breakfast served all day!
?
Buy a MS Notebook, complain about having to pay the Windoze tax, install Linux, configure several small but nonfunctioning items (buttons) for several hours, wonder why it doesn't go out of sleep/hibernation smoothly, rave how awesome Linux is while having Windows booted so you can play that one game you like or use that one piece software that doesn't run on Wine? /jk
I get this all the time from my family/relatives. Here's the rundown:
Get your preferences in order: Screen size, discrete graphics (must/may/must-not), battery life (min) and then just browse Fatwallet's laptop section or slickdeals until something that matches comes up. These days, any intel i3/i5 processor and 3-4GB of RAM will crush light-office-type tasks. I don't worry too much about the brand so long as I've heard of them before. You aren't investing enough to make spending tons of hours on research pay off.
Next up, I want to share a contrary attitude that many of us in the non-Apple community feel. I hasten to mention that I'm not saying your attitude is wrong, but I want to share a different point of view. You said you don't want something that's obsolete in 2 years, but I kind of wonder why? Spending $600 every 2 years gets you a lot further than spending $1200 every 4 years. If you had bought a $1200 laptop 4 years ago, you'd have a first-gen Core2Duo (Merom), 1GB of RAM, 802.11g whereas $600 was a first-gen (Yonah) Centrino, 1GB of RAM, 802.11g. Meanwhile, 2 years ago $600 got you a Arrandale i3, 3GB of RAM and a far better Intel GMA (one that can accelerate h264@1080p) with 802.11n and +50% battery life. So you got 2 years of a slightly faster laptop in exchange for 2 years with a much inferior one all at the same price.
Apple gets you into the habit of spending a whole heck of a lot of money for a really nice machine, I'm trying to suggest that in the Windows world, buying less laptop more often nets you more bang for your buck over time. What's more, the commodification of the laptop means you have so much less at stake regarding breakage. I love not caring about cases, biking with laptop in a backpack, traveling around with it, not investing in a laptop-lock-cable, not caring if my nephew spills apple-juice all over it (the keyboard tray got most of it, the laptop lived on). There are people for whom spending more makes sense: graphic designers need a color-accurate IPS LCD, road-warriors need something super portable, gamers need the latest mobile video cards. For the rest of everyone, get a cheapo laptop, beat the crap out of it and then replace it.
Finally, for those that suggest I'm creating a bunch of unnecessary waste (leaving aside that I'm getting tangible utility out of shorter cycle here), every one of my old laptops has been DBANed and sent over to FreeGeek (where I volunteer) to further their service. It's not waste if you can find a use for it!
I second this. I can't comment on Lenovo's consumer-focused IdeaPad line, but the ThinkPad line is top notch.
If hardware quality, good engineering, and support/warranty service are what is important to you, ThinkPads (at least the T, X, and W series) are still untouchable (even by Apple). And they're less expensive, too.
If you want a good general-purpose laptop, take a look at the T410 (which is on discount as it's being replaced) or the newer T420.
then there is no Intel inside sticker, no windows logo on the keyboard. his wife will not like this.
To send you a new wife.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
In my opinion, keyboard and touchpad characteristics are probably the most important factors in PC laptops. Other than that, good internal hardware hardware is very cheap and similar among brands (Caveats being Intel chips tend to run a bit cooler for the same performance vs. AMD, and if you care about discrete video go for one that has that, otherwise ram and hard drives are easily accessible/upgradeable, but I'm sure other threads are covering that).
Keyboards:
One of the main things about PC keyboards is the Ctrl vs. Fn key. You will find yourself using the Ctrl key very often (less so than in a mac since right click is built in, but still); it's generally more ergonomically comfortable to use the leftmost edge of your left hand to hit the ctrl button if that's where it's located. I know for many laptops I've purchased the Ctrl and Fn key are swapped, and getting to do anything like copy/paste ctrl + C, Ctrl + v, Ctrl + tab, ctrl + click, ctrl + whatever is a minor hand-cramp inducing PITA. If you like keyboard hotkeys, best advice is to find one with the Ctrl keys taking the spotlight.
Mice:
Not only do the designs vary by quite a large bit between manufacturers as far as hardware implementation--Some that have one smooth metallic surface that only does tap response, some that have rough textured surfaces for tactile response, to Thinkpads with a nipple and touchpad and about six different ways to click and doubleclick--but it's also important to keep in mind that the mice action will almost NEVER feel as intuitive or as good as a Mac. The hardware is assembled from various OEM distributors, and depending on who they sourced their touchpad to and how good their driver development is, you will either get basic "scroll bars along edge of pad" functionality, or very poorly implemented pinch-zoom. On top of that, I have an Ideapad G-560 with a touchpad so insensitive slash oversensitive at exactly the wrong times you'd think it was steam driven. One HUGE annoyance is the cursor clicking to some random spot when your palm touches it while you're typing an essay. Have that happen a couple times and your document gets swiss cheesed with sentence fragments.
Unless every review you read for the lappy you're about to get has no qualms about keyboard or touchpad, definitely try to poke around, maybe play solitaire to test out the tap-click-hold-drag functionality, and try typing a couple paragraphs in a word document to make sure the cursor doesn't go Ouija board on you.
This is my suggestion as well. Hands on with the units to get a feel of the keyboard, resolution size, weight and so on. Figure the specs out a head of time. Decided if AMD or Intel is a priority. Same with builtin Intel Video or Nvidia / ATI. Look at the non-crap bundled software as well, you might be surprised.
Whatever you do, don't skimp on Ram. Either buy the laptop with it installed or prepare to shop for an upgrade to at least 8GB. Windows 7 needs minimum of 4, which quickly gets used up with all the crap you'll want to put on (Skype, Google Desktop etc) that runs in the background.
Having just bought a new laptop for my In-Laws, If your wife is anything like my Mother-in-law I can tell you that she is going to find out she is picky about certain things, like whether are the keys glossy or matte finished, same with the screen.
I used to buy laptops online, but after three of them arrived damaged I no longer even try that method. Return shipping is just a hassle I'd like to avoid. Also I like to support the stores that provide me the opportunity to shop local. To that end, the last four machines I've bought came from either Costco or Office Depot.
Consumer brand laptops, Stick with HP and or Dell. The last two Toshiba laptops I've had had power connector issues (worn solder joints) after a year. If you want professional grade, Lenovo or Dell are solid and tend to be built better than the $499 consumer versions of the same. Keep in mind, most of these are all built by the same set of factories in SouthEast Asia, so most of the common components are similar/same.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?"
Think about this for a second - you're looking for something that does the most basic, routine tasks out there. A bottom-of-the-barrel laptop these days ($3-400?) has about 1000x the power you need to surf the web and run MS Office. And it won't be obsolete in 2 years. The same software you run today will work just fine in 2 years, and will take care of any web/office task you could possibly conceive of.
These days, spending more than $500 on a laptop is pointless unless you use it for games, or as a fullblown desktop replacement (video editing, etc). But web use? Office docs? Email? A 5 year old laptop would suffice.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Is that system builder licenses aren't transferable. It is 100% fine to use them on systems you do yourself, that's why Newegg sells them. However they are designed like OEM licenses that Dell et al sell which means that they are tied to that system, which in this case means a motherboard. So you install it, and life is good. However if you get a new computer later and want to transfer it, no deal, it is tied to the computer you put it on.
That's more or less what you are paying for with retail Windows is a "transfer tax" if you like, or having the license be like a book. You can only have it on one thing, but you are free to change what that thing is.
I'm not saying that is a big deal, just that it is something to know and recognize.
Apple doesn't seem to have good ACPI drivers for Windows so it cannot manage power as effectively as it should. So you'll find that Windows gets less battery than OS-X, and also less than on a comparable non-Apple laptop. It isn't horrible, but it is noticeable.
"Why do people insist on using laptops for doing anything other than browsing the net while watching TV?"
Why not? I just use laptops for everything. They're easy to use, and easy to carry around. They cost significantly less than a tablet, and do significantly more. Sure, they cost a little bit more than a desktop, but they're really versatile, and just as powerful.
I don't respond to AC's.
I would first suggest dual booting or virtualizing Windows on the Mac. Boot Camp, Parallels, and Virtualbox are all good solutions.
If the goal is to run Windows, with a real two or three-button touch pad or trackpointer, I would look for a notebook which is solidly built, for which you can get decent customer service, and parts are available well out of warranty.
Build quality limits you to Dell (Latitude and Precision lines only), HP, Lenovo, and Sony.
Customer service limits you to Dell, HP, and to a lesser extent, Lenovo,
Long-term (post-warranty) parts availability limits you to Dell and HP, and to a lesser extent, Lenovo.
What are her requirements? If she needs massive storage or wants mirrored storage, look for a notebook with internal RAID - like the Dell Precision M6500 (I have the M6400, which is the M6500's predecessor, and I love it - desktop chipset, RGB-LED backlit display, it's built like a tank, and is uber-serviceable so easy to upgrade and maintain) or if you don't want to spend that much on a notebook, consider the Latitude line, which generally use the same chassis as the Precision line (so they are also built like tanks) but with mobile chipsets and tend to be slightly lighter. Another option to save money is to call the Dell Outlet and see if they have the model you want as an "open box" return. It would still be marked with a refurb SKU but would be in perfect, as-new condition, and you can save up to $3K on the notebook like I did. Availability from the outlet can be spotty though - I had to call to get the configuration I wanted. They could have 20 of the exact config you want on hand today, and zero tomorrow, and three the next day. People often scour the outlet and flip them on feeBay and at computer fairs.
The items you want to check:
* How solid is the chassis? Will the screen hinges hold up?
On consumer models if you are not careful opening and closing the screen by grasping it at the sides near the hinges you will flex and eventually break the frame. On business models, you can just press down at the top of the screen and it won't flex, and it will close properly. I actually dropped my M6400 at a customer site, and it fell 3' to the tiled-covered concrete floor. It didn't damage it at all but for a consumer chassis I would have had to buy a whole new screen/lid/hinge assembly
* How serviceable is it? Download the service manuals of the model you are looking at. Are you going to hate the tedium of the four-hour project of upgrading the processor and hard drives, or will it be a 15 minute task? How accessible are the SO-DIMM slots?
* Does it offer all the connectivity you need?
* How easily can you get at the heat sinks to clean out the inevitable dust and lint?
You really didn't mention her needs in detail other than "it needs to run Windows" so if she is happy with the virtual second button and no middle button, just install Windows on the Mac (see first paragraph above). My next notebook will most likely be another Precision mobile workstation (but will check out Lenovo again), and my next desktop an iMac (why no macbook pro? I have one and never use it - I like the three-button layout, numeric keypad, screen, performance, and trackpointer + touchpad on the Precision)
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Let me get this straight: You say you're a "Mac guy" and you need to buy a laptop that will run Windows and you find the process "bewildering". In fact, the author uses the term "bewildered" or "bewildering" at least three times in one paragraph.
I don't want to say that your statement confirms my belief about most Mac users, but it's really not all that hard. The only difference is that instead of relying on advertisements alone, you can peruse some of the extensive and exhaustive reviews of current laptops from various manufacturers that you can find online. I'm betting that if you Google "Windows laptops reviews 2011" you'll get exactly what you need. Or you can use Consumer Reports if you find the reviews "bewildering". They have little green or black dots for things like reliability, and features and so forth. You can even visit a Microcenter or Tiger Direct in your area and let your wife look them over. The ones that run Windows have these stickers on them that say so.
You'll be pleased with the prices.
You are welcome on my lawn.
because she wants him too.
Get it?
Women aren't rational creatures. Period.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.