Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: How Do You Choose a Windows Laptop?
jfruhlinger writes "I'm a Mac guy. When our 2004-era Windows XP laptop, which was used primarily by my wife, died last summer, I got myself a new MacBook Pro and she inherited my still serviceable 2008 MacBook. But after about six months, she hasn't gotten used to it, and wants a Windows machine. I don't have an ideological problem with this — it'd be her computer, and we've got a bit of money stashed away to pay for it. But trying to pick one out is my job, and I find the the whole process bewildering. Apple's product differentiation is great at defeating the paradox of choice — you have a few base models, the difference between which is quite obvious, and you can customize each. The Windows world seems totally different. Even once I've settled on a vendor for a Windows laptop (something I haven't done yet), each seems to have a bewildering array of product lines with similar specs. Often models that you find in electronics or office supply stores that seem promising in terms of form factor are exclusive to those stores and can't be found online. Obviously people do navigate this process, but I'm just feeling out of my depth. How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?"
Just install windows on the mac?
1. It must have Linux drivers, even if it requires compiling them separately.
2. It can't be from an evil corporation like Sony.
The same way as a Linux laptop.
Math is beautiful... e^(pi*i)+1=0
and consider that i will eventually be wiping windows off and installing Linux on it...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Why on earth would you give your MacBook Pro to your dead wife?
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
You say "she hasn't gotten used to it, and wants a Windows machine". Do you mean she hasn't gotten used to Mac OS X and wants to use Windows? Just use Boot Camp and install Windows on your MacBook, problem solved. If you mean she is using Windows on your MacBook and there is something about the MacBook itself she doesn't like, perhaps you should elaborate on what specifically it is she doesn't like about the hardware as that's probably something you should take into account in your next purchase.
These days almost all laptops have sucky screen resolution (13xx x 768). Particularly at the 14" and 15" sizes. Find a machine with a decent screen and you'll find a decent laptop. A few months ago I got my wife a HP Envy 14 with the 1600x900 screen, i5 CPU, and 4GB RAM. Suites her needs quite nicely.
I think right now, the choice is between a low/medium spec Windows 7 32 bit laptop and a high-spec Windows 7 64 bit laptop. I bought a new one recently and opted for 64 bit and as much RAM as I could get.. it really is fast! But, I still prefer to do my real work on my Windows XP workstation..
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It really doesn't matter which one you pick, unless you're running some kind of new-ish games on it, or something else that's super CPU or video intensive. The hardware is so ahead of what's needed for most people at this point, that just about anything made within the past 10 years works fine for most purposes. When I'm buying PC's (or laptops) for my company, I just find some refurbished model that has 2-4 GB RAM, and a decent hard drive. The rest of the specs really don't matter unless you have very specific needs. I don't know why a PC would be "obsolete" in the literal sense. Most of my PC's and laptops and servers were all made in the early 2000's and all run Windows XP and all do everything I need them to do just fine. I generally shoot for $300-400 for a laptop.
I don't respond to AC's.
I have always used Dell laptops or ones provided by work (HP). I purchased a Dell netbook for my wife assuming that during her time at home it would be portable and easy for her to carry around. After a couple of months she decided it was just too small and underpowered for her and she wanted something else.
We only had a few requirements: built in mic and webcam (Skype with the grandparents), Windows, and a 10-key pad.
NewEgg had a Lenovo laptop which met all those requirements for ~$475. We picked it up and it arrived a few days later. Widescreen, 10-key, mic but a bit of a lame webcam. The rest of the specs are irrelevant as my wife doesn't need anything except Firefox, Word, and Excel.
But the important thing about Lenovo wasn't the hardware. The important thing was when it began shutting down unexpectedly and without warning after 30 minutes of heavy CPU usage (like when my wife was catching up on her shows on Hulu).
I contacted Lenovo support. I explained the problem and what I had done to test it. There was no usual bullshit required script I had to run through with the person on the phone. Nope. They e-mailed us the instructions on how to ship it back and we did.
It arrived at their facility in Texas on the 15th. On the 16th FedEx knocked at our door with the repaired laptop.
Lenovo will get my laptop business again and again until they break the trust level they created with that wonderful service exchange--arguably the best service I have ever received from any manufacturer in my 25 years of dealing with these things.
Good luck.
Just buy a Latitude or Thinkpad. You can't go terribly wrong with either.
If it's just for web surfing and document editing, then buying something cheap won't be obsolete in two years. As I don't buy Office every time a new version comes out. Only once every five years or more.
Since Windows 7 hasn't been out that long support for it won't die in a couple of years. So her laptop will run the same in two years as it does now if there aren't tons of programs loaded onto it(due to the extra programs themselves rather than age.)
To be on the safe side, anything with 6GB+ of ram will be more than enough to last a long time.
Netbooks tend to be on the slow side, and have a small keyboard. A 15" laptop screen should be fine unless she wants a good built in number-pad.
My desktop with XP home on it has been running since 2006, and it still runs office and firefox with zero problems. It may be considered obsolete in age, but not in it's function to me. So don't buy into the "obsolete" marketing. If it still does it's intended job in two years it's fine.
See which keyboards/track pads/screen/etc she prefers. Then buy whatever specs you need on that model.
Almost all consumer laptops are terrible. Get a business laptop if you want something that is any good. Some examples are HP's EliteBook and ProBook lines, Dell's Precision and Latitude lines, and Lenovo's ThinkPad line. Generally speaking, if a laptop doesn't have a trackpoint/pointing stick, it isn't worth having. It doesn't matter if you want to use it or not, it is a good indication of the quality of a laptop. Business laptops generally have: Better Battery life Better reliability No crapware More durable designs Higher performance Better keyboards and Anti-Glare screens Better conductivity and support for a docking station Better and longer warranties
Confucius say: Choosing Windows Laptop Easy! Open Window First!
Be relentless!
By how well it runs GNU/Linux.
The best way to pick one is to find out the minimum basics of what is wanted (screen size, and whether it will be "gaming" or just basics - web, email, an office suite, and light gaming). Then, write out minimum specs. If you have a processor brand preference, a minimum processor speed, I wouldn't go with less than 4GB RAM and a discrete 256 MB or better video card. HD space in a laptop doesn't matter to me because by the time I've picked everything else I wanted, they have more than my minimum as their minimum, so it isn't an issue. Now, to the anti-geek part. Once you have a basic idea of what you want.
Get the weekly fliers for Best Buy, Office Max, Office Depot, Sams, Costco, etc. and look through them. Find the cheapest one that fits your specs. Buy it or wait until next week.
If you have a specific brand you want, and specific specs that won't show up in a regular store, then you'll have to work much harder. But for a commodity laptop, it doesn't really matter. They are all about the same. And the plus side is that when you do it this way, you'll find out you paid less than half what you thought you would.
Learn to love Alaska
First question to ask yourself is: What does your wife want to do with her Windows laptop?
There are a bunch more factors you can consider (for example, maybe you're not planning to give Sony any more money). But until we know what your wife wants a Windows laptop for, it's pretty difficult to point you in any specific direction.
BTW, you might want to make sure she's comfortable with Windows 7, too. If all she wants is Windows XP, you might skip the stores and start looking other places (eBay, Craigslist).
Breakfast served all day!
They're almost at the point of being disposable, which kind of bothers me. I'd love to spend real money and get a good machine I can upgrade to make last 5+ years, but it's just not worth it.
Unless your wife has some very specific needs I'd say just hit Staples or Best Buy and see what's on sale. Any off the shelf name brand laptop will run Windows Fine. Strip off the factory supplied junkware (read: Norton/Symantec), add MS Office, and likely she's good to go.
Of course, I then installed Ubuntu via a Windows installer, and haven't looked back...
Three Squirrels
...yes. This comes off as some fanboy trying to justify some Apple product that he's already purchased.
Things like cpu speed, disk size, memory size & GPU family are all things that have to be decided on even if you choose the allegedly easier route of buying a Mac.
This may come as a shock to some, but the stock Mac might not even be suitable for what you want to do with it. A good example of this are those suggesting that you use some sort of Virtual Machine to run Windows software. Another is basic casual gaming.
It helps to actually know what you want.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Dell Inspiron 15R. Its not hugely powerful. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles. It has two significant weaknesses: No Bluetooth on board, 100Mb NIC.
Otherwise, for AU$1100 (including a spare battery), what a chilly bargain. I could have two of these babies cheaper than most IBMs, Toshibas or HP/Compaqs - even Macs. You just know that they're going to be good for the warranty - if I need it, and lets face it, I know more about PCs that 98% of their tech support department, so its not like I'm going to call them when I have anything short of a hardware failure.
I plan to own the device for two years (good god, is that planned obsolescence in hardware I hear? Who'd a thought?). After that, it will go to one of the kids, and I'll buy another one in the same class.
?
Buy a MS Notebook, complain about having to pay the Windoze tax, install Linux, configure several small but nonfunctioning items (buttons) for several hours, wonder why it doesn't go out of sleep/hibernation smoothly, rave how awesome Linux is while having Windows booted so you can play that one game you like or use that one piece software that doesn't run on Wine? /jk
You don't need a new machine and protect against obsolescence if you are just doing email and web surfing.
And, you could always Boot Camp Windows onto the Mac Book provided it is an Intel processor.
Staples, Best Buy, Fry's - what ever is cheap and has a decent comfortable keyboard for her.
If she's mostly at home and plugged in to power - get a bigger screen.
If she's on the go - get a screen that is readable but smaller to extend out battery life.
In the L500 or L650 ranges. Get an extended warranty - they're not so much more likely to fail, as bl@@dy expensive to fix when they do. Also, Toshiba's extended warranty means courier pick-up and return.
They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
I get this all the time from my family/relatives. Here's the rundown:
Get your preferences in order: Screen size, discrete graphics (must/may/must-not), battery life (min) and then just browse Fatwallet's laptop section or slickdeals until something that matches comes up. These days, any intel i3/i5 processor and 3-4GB of RAM will crush light-office-type tasks. I don't worry too much about the brand so long as I've heard of them before. You aren't investing enough to make spending tons of hours on research pay off.
Next up, I want to share a contrary attitude that many of us in the non-Apple community feel. I hasten to mention that I'm not saying your attitude is wrong, but I want to share a different point of view. You said you don't want something that's obsolete in 2 years, but I kind of wonder why? Spending $600 every 2 years gets you a lot further than spending $1200 every 4 years. If you had bought a $1200 laptop 4 years ago, you'd have a first-gen Core2Duo (Merom), 1GB of RAM, 802.11g whereas $600 was a first-gen (Yonah) Centrino, 1GB of RAM, 802.11g. Meanwhile, 2 years ago $600 got you a Arrandale i3, 3GB of RAM and a far better Intel GMA (one that can accelerate h264@1080p) with 802.11n and +50% battery life. So you got 2 years of a slightly faster laptop in exchange for 2 years with a much inferior one all at the same price.
Apple gets you into the habit of spending a whole heck of a lot of money for a really nice machine, I'm trying to suggest that in the Windows world, buying less laptop more often nets you more bang for your buck over time. What's more, the commodification of the laptop means you have so much less at stake regarding breakage. I love not caring about cases, biking with laptop in a backpack, traveling around with it, not investing in a laptop-lock-cable, not caring if my nephew spills apple-juice all over it (the keyboard tray got most of it, the laptop lived on). There are people for whom spending more makes sense: graphic designers need a color-accurate IPS LCD, road-warriors need something super portable, gamers need the latest mobile video cards. For the rest of everyone, get a cheapo laptop, beat the crap out of it and then replace it.
Finally, for those that suggest I'm creating a bunch of unnecessary waste (leaving aside that I'm getting tangible utility out of shorter cycle here), every one of my old laptops has been DBANed and sent over to FreeGeek (where I volunteer) to further their service. It's not waste if you can find a use for it!
If I were going to buy a Windows laptop right now it would almost surely be a ThinkPad. Probably their new X220 when it comes out. All the other manufacturers' stuff seems cheaply made and ridiculous to look at. It's like they're trying to add as much "bling" as they possibly can. ThinkPad's "all black" is as close as I can get in Windows-land to Mac's "all white".
My process is fairly simple What I do, is I pick a price point that I want to spend then I look at Lenovo, dell, hp, and a few of the big box stores and get the machine with the best specs I can at that price.
I used to be biased towards Thinkpads but I am not happy with the build quality or longevity of my most recent, a w500. The only thing they (in my opinion) still have going for them is they are easy to disassemble and repair or upgrade. Although parts from Lenovo are ghastly expensive.
...that won't be obsolete in two years?
Strangely enough, I was just having this conversation this afternoon about how my mindset has recently changed to looking at laptops as a disposable commodity. Now I just find the cheapest one that meets my specs and expect it to last 1-2 years. For a basic browsing laptop, that means about a $300 laptop. It's like leasing for $12.50/month, which isn't a bad deal. Give it to charity or sell it for $50 in two years.
"Once in Hawaii I had sex with a 102 year old male turtle. It is difficult to argue that it was consensual." - Steve Ma
The only thing that I would ask her is if she plans to do any video editing. I have a Dell Studio 17 and now that I am recording and editing HiDef video the performance is not suitable. I plan to get a low end gaming desktop with one of the NVIDA cards that is supported by Adobe Premier Pro. I don't know if any of the reasonably priced laptops will be suitable.
this.
when i buy windows i go lenovo. the machines are still built like tanks and work fantastic.
i actually convinced my boss to let me buy a lenovo in a company of dells. mind you others are or may be better but lenovo just works perfectly for me. my x61s has been running solid for 3 years now and i just got the x201 which should tide me through for another couple of years.
if in the ultra portable space try the x220 (to be released soon) otherwise try the T series. u cant go wrong with either option.
For the AC above. checkout the x220
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/18/lenovo-thinkpad-x220-review/
I would suggest a Thinkpad T series or X series as her primary machine. The 420, 520, 220 series are quite modern but still rolling out. For a little less money you can get the yesteryear model which offer more choices of features. Dell Latitudes are also solid machines in my experience and I have heard good things about HP's Elite book line but lack first hand experience. As a rule of thumb if you see it in a big box store stay away; the build quality is often compromised for cost, and the Windows install is often full of crapware.
To the /. crowd who can't understand why someone would not like Windows on Mac hardware, Windows 7 on Macs as of November is a hit or miss affair (two finger mouse press sends both a right AND left click, audio is always turned down, and one other issue which eludes me). The touch pad is the best I have ever used, but it doesn't replace a touch point and three buttons. Home, del, insert, page up, page down are sorely missed. Chicklet keyboards don't feel right to me, and finally, Macs tend to have a lower screen resolution for their size than what you can find on Windows laptops.
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
My advice would be to go to a Microsoft store, a brick and mortar one if there's such a thing around where you live, or http://store.microsoft.com otherwise. It's a one-stop display of the best models for each niche and market segment. The redundancy will be very reduced and all the non-competitive models will be filtered out. And when you buy from them, you get your laptop with a custom system install without the brand bloat/crapware, which enhances the out-of-the-box experience considerably.
I second this. I can't comment on Lenovo's consumer-focused IdeaPad line, but the ThinkPad line is top notch.
If hardware quality, good engineering, and support/warranty service are what is important to you, ThinkPads (at least the T, X, and W series) are still untouchable (even by Apple). And they're less expensive, too.
If you want a good general-purpose laptop, take a look at the T410 (which is on discount as it's being replaced) or the newer T420.
My wife and I walked this path last year after her Vista Dell POS died. I compared a variety of major brands: Dell, HP/Compaq, Lenovo, Toshiba, maybe a couple of others I don't recall. Yes I do: Acer, Gateway, Asus, eMachines, etc. Like others have suggested, I started from specs that should be good for a couple of years: Win7x64, four+ cores, big enough screen. In her case power/battery is not an issue. We wound up dialing in on a Toshiba, but Lenovo was a close second, and they do seem to be holding up the no-bullshit tradition. The Toshiba has behaved well following OEM crapware removal.
my experience with laptops is this - if you really take it on the road a lot I have found that it is more likely to break before it becomes obsolete
on my list of craptops that are not well made and break easily:
1. Dell - most of the affordable ones are pretty cheaply made - we got a deal on a master program I was in where all the students got them, in the end I offered mine up as parts help other keep theirs running - the final straw on mine was when the internal voltage regulator literally went up in smoke in an airport.
2. HP - they should have lemon laws for HP laptops - it seems if you get a dud its pretty much going to be that way forever
3. Panasonic - crap displays - the toughbooks are rugged but are usually pretty disappointing from a performance perspective
The VERY best laptops I have found to be the Sony Vaio's - they are the only ones I've owned that lasted so long that they became obsolete and even then they were so good I could pass them on to moms and sisters.... They are a little pricey bit well worth it !
Just install windows on the mac?
I have a MBP 13" Unibody. The HW is pretty much ok, but the configured options of the era show their age. The battery has swollen, 2GB of RAM is little nowadays, and a 5400rpm HDD is slow.
Do as the Parent sugests, install Windows Seven (not Vista, and certainly not XP) in the laptop, but upgrade Memory (check the manual to see the max ammount of ram supported, and check the forums to see if it can take a tad more ), change the HDD (here faster RPM or SDD is the name of the game), and buy a new (non Apple, thank you) battery. This can be done by pretty much anyone.
If you do not upgrade those options, the laptop will feel slow compared to what is in the market nowadays, and will likely fail early (HDD or battery), making your wife feel shortcharged.
Last, but not least, be smart about the windows install, and do not self-crappify your computer, Microsoft Security essentials is a nice Antivirus solution, and Windows live has a bunch of nice uttilities, which are updated from the same place as the rest of the OS, making life much simpler.
If you are competent inside the machine, a little cleanup of the fans and termal pipes with a can of compressed air is recomended too. If you are REALLY competent inside a laptop, you can re-apply the termal paste...
With the money you save, buy HER (not you) some nifty accesories, like an enclosure for the old HDD, so she has an external disk, or a usb hub, or something nice, non computer related.
PS: In windows, for many laptops, one can SW overclock the machine, I've done it, asnd as long as you do not get too greedy, works OK.
*** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
> "... that won't be obsolete in two years?"
I'm sorry, I thought you said a XP Laptop.
They come that way out of the box.
then there is no Intel inside sticker, no windows logo on the keyboard. his wife will not like this.
My best advice is the same advice I give on buying ANYTHING from a new car to an ice cream cone: once you've made your decision and bought something, just enjoy it and quit shopping them. Watching for sales, trying out the display models in stores, comparing prices and features online, even asking your friends what they bought and how much they paid -- all that is for before you buy and continuing to do that after the fact will only lead to frustration (because there's always going to be a lower price or a flashier gizmo in a few days or weeks and unless you're prepared to constantly be in "shopping mode" knowing about it will do you no good at all.)
This space intentionally left (almost) blank.
I've had a HP G60 for less than 2 years and they have ridiculous overheating problems, my cable melted and my fan overheated and still doesn't worked even after it's cleaned. What's best if you wanted to spend $2000 on a laptop? Something you can work with and take anywhere?
It's like the mind going AWOL, it's there somewhere
One flaw of my method is that external appearance doesn't come into play. I very nearly wound up selecting a laptop that came only in pink. This is probably quite important for non-geeks.
Just look on Amazon (or something like it), and find the one with the highest stars - that's what I did.
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
Something I have said since I sold PC's in the 80's - if you can buy it, it is already obsolete... Get a system with a good warranty. My Dell D630, and my D600 laptop before that, both came with a 3 year warranty. Most laptops come with a 1 year warranty unless you pay extra. Dell charges $39 for their Latitude systems to extend that to 3 years - well worth the price. In any case, consider 3 years a minimum life time, and 5 years max. By then she will probably be ready to trade. Mine is just 3 years old now. It is still sound and has enough power, video, memory, and disc to last a few more I think. Dell is trying to get me to reup the warrany, but I'm not sure it is worth it. At this point I think it's about an extra $150 per year.
Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
To send you a new wife.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
What do you want? If you are going to do graphics get lots of memory.
Choose a brand that has good tech support. Dell used to have the best tech support in the business, but it's now probably the worst. I lean toward Lenovo, Fujitsu and Toshiba. If you are doing a lot of multimedia, Sony is ok, but temperamental.
"The mind works quicker than you think!"
In my opinion, keyboard and touchpad characteristics are probably the most important factors in PC laptops. Other than that, good internal hardware hardware is very cheap and similar among brands (Caveats being Intel chips tend to run a bit cooler for the same performance vs. AMD, and if you care about discrete video go for one that has that, otherwise ram and hard drives are easily accessible/upgradeable, but I'm sure other threads are covering that).
Keyboards:
One of the main things about PC keyboards is the Ctrl vs. Fn key. You will find yourself using the Ctrl key very often (less so than in a mac since right click is built in, but still); it's generally more ergonomically comfortable to use the leftmost edge of your left hand to hit the ctrl button if that's where it's located. I know for many laptops I've purchased the Ctrl and Fn key are swapped, and getting to do anything like copy/paste ctrl + C, Ctrl + v, Ctrl + tab, ctrl + click, ctrl + whatever is a minor hand-cramp inducing PITA. If you like keyboard hotkeys, best advice is to find one with the Ctrl keys taking the spotlight.
Mice:
Not only do the designs vary by quite a large bit between manufacturers as far as hardware implementation--Some that have one smooth metallic surface that only does tap response, some that have rough textured surfaces for tactile response, to Thinkpads with a nipple and touchpad and about six different ways to click and doubleclick--but it's also important to keep in mind that the mice action will almost NEVER feel as intuitive or as good as a Mac. The hardware is assembled from various OEM distributors, and depending on who they sourced their touchpad to and how good their driver development is, you will either get basic "scroll bars along edge of pad" functionality, or very poorly implemented pinch-zoom. On top of that, I have an Ideapad G-560 with a touchpad so insensitive slash oversensitive at exactly the wrong times you'd think it was steam driven. One HUGE annoyance is the cursor clicking to some random spot when your palm touches it while you're typing an essay. Have that happen a couple times and your document gets swiss cheesed with sentence fragments.
Unless every review you read for the lappy you're about to get has no qualms about keyboard or touchpad, definitely try to poke around, maybe play solitaire to test out the tap-click-hold-drag functionality, and try typing a couple paragraphs in a word document to make sure the cursor doesn't go Ouija board on you.
by dropping them and seeing which one hits the ground first.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
However, you'll be stuck with 32-bit Windows unless you remaster your Windows 7 disc to use the EFI boot files from a 32-bit version, and even if you do that it's a pain to install the drivers because you can't do it automatically.
If you're not wanting to mess with it, I'd check the usual review sites. Avoid Sony like the plague, and remember that you get what you pay for.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
My wife needed a Windows license to run the requisite software to allow her to work from home. She found the retail version of WIndows 7 Professional going for $80 and Windows 7 Ultimate for $90 on the local area Craig's List.
Just saying.
I will post my Linux criteria, while it does not necessarily need to be that, by following this criteria you will at least have a pain free alternative route for the hardware leaving windows.
1. AMD processor - Mainly because intel IS #1 and they play and get away with the word games on processors, you never really know what you are gonna get, and usually discover you got less than you expected. AMD while being #2 has had to meet or beat Intels price point for performance, so usually similar priced laptops, the AMD ones will have better performance.
2. nVidia chip set - ATI may be better in performance respects but on Linux what matters more is will you be able to get the graphics to work. AMD usually just works - ATI you are rolling dice. I translate that to the companies support for their product and customers. ATI does not really care about their customers' interests, and nVidia does.
3. Not consumer HP - of the few HPs Iv'e worked with (desktops) their compatibility with linux has been disappointing, and their outsourced support, will not help you unless you are talking about Windows.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
You said "that won't be obsolete in two years"
Rick B.
This is one of those questions that is asked frequently. This thread breaks down the differences and I agree with the poster as an owner of both.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1886760&cid=34370614
Get an IBM Thinkpad T-Series. T61, T410
Backward compatible to Windows NT with intelligent hardware and a really, really good keyboard and trackstick.
Good luck!
I don't do much development or admin on the laptop. It's basically just the Linux kernel and a browser and a few free and non-free codec and browser plugins, so I don't really care how well it runs "GNU".
Why do people insist on using laptops for doing anything other than browsing the net while watching TV? And they can do that on a tablet now.
I have a work laptop, for when I am on call. All it has to do is VPN and run a Remote Desktop Connection to my office PC. I could use it to browse the net while on the sofa. There are no more uses for a laptop. Their power/price is poor in comparison to almost any decent PC. You either pay too much money or you get lousy performance.
Another problem with laptops is the tiny/cramped keyboard, a $5 keyboard has to be more comfortable than any laptop keyboard - certainly no worse. A good quality keyboard is even better.
There is no way any laptop pointing device is going to be easier, faster or more accurate than a mouse. Bizarrely, Microsoft make (or badge) really good ones but there is plenty choice.
As I look at my screen, I am trying to decide what size of screen to replace it with. 24" sounds nice. If I want to look at a 15" screen, I will get a tablet. It would be no use for gaming, coding or writing.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Lenovo also has great tech support in my experience. Now I speak as a tech support person, not as a normal user so perhaps it is not as good if you don't know what you are doing but they are great.
Example:
One of our students had a Thinkpad, started having weird problems. He decided to give it a Memtest, as we usually do in those situations. Sure enough, bad memory. He called Lenovo, told them what he'd done, they said "Ok we'll ship you new RAM." He gave them all his info. The next morning, his RAM was there. In less than 24 hours they got him replacement parts, and he was just a normal consumer, this wasn't on a business account.
Lenovo really has grade-A support in my experience. Also, they are way better about drivers than most vendors. Many, Dell in particular, seem to update drivers for a bit and then neglect it. This is particularly a problem with video drivers since they can still need updating for features years down the road. Lenovo is pretty good about that.
If your lappy is important, like you can't afford a lot of downtime, I'd go Lenovo.
Personally I got an MSI laptop because I liked the offerings and downtime is acceptable, my desktop is my primary machine. I like MSI and they make good geek laptops (real easy to get at all the components) but I do not have the experience with their tech support to recommend them for people who need their stuff in a hurry.
How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?"
Think about this for a second - you're looking for something that does the most basic, routine tasks out there. A bottom-of-the-barrel laptop these days ($3-400?) has about 1000x the power you need to surf the web and run MS Office. And it won't be obsolete in 2 years. The same software you run today will work just fine in 2 years, and will take care of any web/office task you could possibly conceive of.
These days, spending more than $500 on a laptop is pointless unless you use it for games, or as a fullblown desktop replacement (video editing, etc). But web use? Office docs? Email? A 5 year old laptop would suffice.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Is that computers really do have staying power these days. They are just real powerful. For a non-gamer, I think a laptop can easily do 4 years. CPUs are damn good now and you can get a lot of memory. If you get an i5 with 4 or 8GB, sucker should still be just fine in 4 years. Even for gamers things aren't as "Gotta have an upgrade," as they used to be. I've got a Q9550 in my desktop and it is still just fine. Runs the latest games well, despite being a 3 year old product.
However, you are right in that it is better to buy somethign a little more economical, but that meets your needs, and upgrade more often, than to try and get something that lasts forever and ever. You'll be happier overall. That is particularly true with games, since graphics cards DO move faster than other things. Even an extremely high end GPU is going to be problematic in 4 years. Better to spend less, more often.
I've been selling supporting and doinking around with my own and clients laptops since they were invented. (Yup, that 25lb Compaq was my first)! I have little to say but here's what it is. 1).. Don't be buying a laptop at the same store where you buy fridges and washing machines. Why? Because you can CUSTOMIZE! 2).. Buy Online. 3).. Go for the clean install config. - i.e. no crapware (HP IS THE WORST for crapware these days) 4).. Buy a Sony. (if you still care about points with the spousal unit then you'll get a couple) Avoid the malaise in NA thinking ".... I got a great deal..." - there ain't no such thing!
May the lies we live by make us strong, healthy, happy and wise - Kurt Vonnegut.
What is she going to use it for? Does she want to take it with her when she leaves the home? For example, my laptop stays at home most of the time and is used for Multimedia, so i got a HP Multimedia laptop. Cheap and effective. If I wasn't worrying about money I would find a laptop that can dock. It's all about her habits and what she wants to do with it. If she wants to put it in her backpack or in the car and take it with her then maybe find her a slim laptop with a crystal clear screen. I'm sure you can find other features that will make her really love her laptop,such as power and wireless everything.. but for me I like a big screen and keyboard and want to hear the sound without having to hook up a lot of gadgets..
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
Your post sounds like the anxious confused ramblings of a prisoner in a grocery store after years of choosing between the slop or the gruel at the mess hall. Hang in there, being an empowered consumer is a little scary at first.
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You don't.
On a more serious note, I generally just go to Dell and pick out whatever's cheapest. Check out their small business line too, you can get a laptop with nearly identical specs for a decent bit less sometimes. I generally also compare prices with HP too, but usually Dell has the better deals. Their service is pretty good too as long as your problems occur before the warranty expires, and they're hardware faults. When my motherboard died, I was on the phone with them for less than half an hour, and I had a fully functional machine back within a week...and they specifically told me to keep the hard drive, which allowed me to retain access to my data since I had a SATA USB dock. Software (or driver) faults you'll get nowhere with though - they'll just try to tell you it's a virus. But this is Slashdot, so I assume you are capable of dealing with such issues yourself.
I abandoned Windows in the late 90's for linux and then went mac when they went intel. One of the greatest joys I've had as a result was being able to tell all of my friends and family that looked to me to support their Windows installations that I don't really know Windows and they should always buy systems that come with support.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
So is communism! There are those who can't handle choice. We should give them the *choice* of moving to a communist regime!
From what I found, ASUS was top on reliability with Sony, Dell and Toshiba higher up. Looking from there I wanted a gaming computer and prefer ATI over nVidia at the moment though I'm not sure there is a major difference, Toshiba seems to have more nVidia so that dropped off for me. I've had issues with older Dells (though newer ones look better) and good luck with Sony but the prices of both for high performance were a tad higher than I wanted. Eventually I found the Asus G73 to meet everything I wanted for a tad lower price and found a refurbished one which had everything I wanted at a much lower price.
How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?
If you can buy it, it is already obsolete and overpriced.
But, since you already have an X86 Mac, just use Parallels, "boot Campt" to dual boot, or simply install XP.
The 2008 Aluminium Macbook is pretty much indestructible... My 2005 Powerbook is still going strong. Macs usually have working lives of more than 5 years and can be found still in production use at 10 years old.
you had me at #!
"How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?""
No one would go about doing that because it's impossible. Every laptop made yesterday will be obsolete in about a year and a half from yesterday, at best.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
There's no guaranteed answer to your issue(s). Based on what I understand you are asking for a machine that:
A. Will be capable to support web surfing and document editing.
B. You will not need to be replaced a few years.
Issue A has a very simple answer. Any. Pretty much any laptop or netbook out there has sufficient power. That will last for as many years as you keep using the same software. Experience tells me that users whom are not comfortable switching from Windows with Mac are quite happy with the same software until they are forced to upgrade so this should not be an issue.
Issue B has a more tricky answer. Picking a brand does not mean a whole lot nowadays. I work in an IT department and most employees use laptops. I have seen all the major brands, including Lenovo, Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Apple, etc., having hardware failures at fairly random times and with fairly random components. Yes, that's right, I have seen MacBooks that failed in their second year. At the same time, with each of these brands, I've had very good experiences too. I can think of a few examples in each that have lasted for more than 5 years. I actually still have a few laptops running Windows XP and still being used. I won't suggest any brand because it seems to be a bit of a lottery with any of them.
In conclusion, as many have already suggested here, if installing Windows on that MacBook is not an option or you're not interested in that saving, pick a brand and model based on what you need. If you like the capabilities of the MacBook Pro, try finding something with similar hardware specs. You won't find many that have a reasonable multi-gesture touch-pad or illuminated keyboard but you can find roughly the same hardware in terms of graphics, cpu, memory and hard drive. Good luck.
I have the book, the Paradox of Choice, on my bookshelf and have read it cover to cover (not that it's a hard read). The principle argument of the guy who wrote it begins that we in the modern world have an amazing array of choices. I can't disagree with him there. He points out that when we go to the average grocery store there are, you know, 47 varieties of potato chip, that sort of stuff and that this choice can be bewildering. All true.
However, he says that this choice causes bad emotions and that we'd all be a lot better off if we just settled on the easiest choice to come along without second thought and without dwelling or regret. He seems to think this is a logical solution to the paradox of choice. But this seemed like a horrible, even nightmarish idea to me. Let me break it down into terms the average Slashdotter can understand though. Essentially, according to Barry Schwartz, the solution to the paradox of choice is to relinquish choice and choose the easiest thing and thus the solution to the paradox of choice is that we:
Run Windows.
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
Is that system builder licenses aren't transferable. It is 100% fine to use them on systems you do yourself, that's why Newegg sells them. However they are designed like OEM licenses that Dell et al sell which means that they are tied to that system, which in this case means a motherboard. So you install it, and life is good. However if you get a new computer later and want to transfer it, no deal, it is tied to the computer you put it on.
That's more or less what you are paying for with retail Windows is a "transfer tax" if you like, or having the license be like a book. You can only have it on one thing, but you are free to change what that thing is.
I'm not saying that is a big deal, just that it is something to know and recognize.
being a former SONY VAIO owner I can tell you I don't know how SONY does it but they make HP laptops seem reliable. I've never had so many heat related problems. I had to start carry a laptop fan with my laptop if I didn't want that thing to crash after a couple hours of use.
Buy a MS-class laptop with Linux already installed - skipping the WinTax altogether so no need to complain - everything is already configured, except for the custom key strokes you're going to do anyway. Sleep / Hibernate works as well as any other line (and in this post coldboot attack era ACPI S3 can be very foolish to use) , Grab VirtualBox and a retail copy of Win if you really need it. Relax and have a stable system that can operate for years without a crash and enjoy life for a change.
Worked for me .
Back on point as to OP's request: Put Win-whatever-the-wife-needs on the Mac and call it a day. This ain't a purely technical matter ;)
She's the one that is going to be using it. She should decide on what model she wants. Is it light enough for her to carry around? Does the battery last long enough? Does she want a 13", 15", or 17" screen? Things only she can really answer.
I'm going to answer the original question as posed. You choose a Windows laptop by process of elimination, kind of like the Mac/PC commercials show. The commercial was snarky but not far from the truth. With the breadth of the field you have to choose from this is the only way to do it.
First, establish your budget and eliminate everything not in that range. "Solid" is the $400-800, "awesome" range is $800-1500, "gigitty" range is $1500+. Loosely.
Non-negotiable specs: 4GB RAM, Windows 7.
Can go either way: Intel i5/7 or Core 2 Quad - Core 2 Duo 2GHz+ if you must - as your budget allows. For general use it doesn't make much difference at this point. (Its been a long time since I've had any computer where I felt like the processor was the bottleneck in a general purpose machine's performance.)
Find out if there are any features she can't do without, like backlit keyboard (I didn't think it was a big deal but now I'll never go back.), trackpoint, super thin, super light, super long battery life, etc. With Windows PCs the bewildering array of machines is usually the result of one unique feature per model line. For every new feature a manufacture comes up with they build a model line around it. If you find out what particular things she just can't do without then a couple models may jump out of the crowd.
When you've narrowed the field down to a few models check the manufacturer forums and sales outlets feedback and see if you can spot any patterns in the complaints or kudos. Random gripes and generally worded pooh-poohing don't mean a thing...anything that pops up repeatedly is a problem that will eliminate a model from consideration.
At this point you should have it narrowed down to a handful of machines. Pull out the one machine you think is styled best for each unique or cool feature. Present the short list, along with the best pics you can find so she can see styling, to your wife and have her pick.
And you can sell the other 11 after you open the crate.
Apple doesn't seem to have good ACPI drivers for Windows so it cannot manage power as effectively as it should. So you'll find that Windows gets less battery than OS-X, and also less than on a comparable non-Apple laptop. It isn't horrible, but it is noticeable.
Am I the only one who scanned this and thought, "This SOB's wife died, and he's asking /. for opinions on reformatting her laptop?"
yeah .... i replaced vista on my laptop with ubuntu. before it would run at 1005 in sleep or hibernate mode, battery would be dead in no time. switching from wired to wireless was a PITA. and, something was broken as word would only accept and process around 6 letter/min. on Ubuntu, sleep and hibernate work great. it even powers off the windows vm before the battery drains out and it powers off. and switching wired/wiress is about as fast and i can unplug the cable. ps: i only have a windows vm because i have a class that requires a specific plugin for excel 2008.
You're used to not having choice, so when it comes to deciding between models you're getting confused. Instead, you should figure out what laptop specs you want, and then look for models available that meet your criteria. Once you know exactly what you want, finding an ideal laptop is usually a piece of cake.
It's GNU/Linux dammit!
You can get a nice Samsung from Best Buy for less than $800. The specs are good, and the design is nice.
Samsung - Laptop / Intel® Core i5 Processor / 14" Display / 4GB Memory / 640GB Hard Drive - Aluminum
(Disclaimer: I do not work for Best Buy, I do not work for Samsung. I don't get compensated one way or the other if you buy this unit. I'm a Mac guy too, and recently went through this same decision, and this is what I found.)
I would take it one step more... two words - screen resolution. Without resolution on your screen, graphics card is pretty much crippled.
You can use windows, but I am not going to help you with the computer. She now has been running Ubuntu for 3 years .
I guess that's what the cult of iSteve does to people. Maybe instead of crying about there being too many, you can consider exactly why you are being given those choices and research the options yourself so you'll know what you are getting instead of asking slashdot to provide you with the "answer". In effect you are asking the teacher to do your homework problem and will end up learning nothing in the process. I'll give one example: do you really need 1gb of memory on a discrete graphics card on a laptop? Believe it or not, yes people have written about this topic and a friend with that question learned quite a bit which will be factored into his future purchases. You could too.
Here is what I understand your requirements are based on the original post: "How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?" I would advocate buying used, and beefing it up in the "sweet spots" (EG: battery / RAM). Depending on what version of Windows you want to run, you could score a very sweet system online using the "recommended specs" for your target version of the OS. Since you did not indicate it would be used for gaming, most stuff you could get off of eBay (as an example) would give you years of service. Alternately, perhaps there is someone who refurbishes laptops (EG: off-lease units) in your general area which you could potentially get some support behind. Either way, you get the benefit of something with some mileage behind it, to see how the unit faired after the "new unit" shine wore off. Good hunting. :-)
"solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?"
Good grief, machines that are already over three years old aren't obsolete for those uses. I have an old Dell Latitude D410 with 512 MB of RAM and maybe an 800 MHz Pentium 3m that is just fine for web surfing and document editing. That machine must be at least six years old! It's running Windows XP and it still works. The hinges busted right after the 3-year warranty ran out; I think it should have lasted longer but maybe I'm being unreasonable. At any rate I still keep it around for when I need a Windows machine. I just prop the screen up.
If all you need is a machine for basic uses, pick it out with respect for the prejudices of you and your wife. I hate glossy screens, so I avoid those. Maybe you don't care about that or maybe you like glossy. Maybe you want something cheap. Maybe you want a numeric keypad. Maybe you want a webcam. Maybe you like to go to the store and look at them. Maybe you hate going to the store so you just want to hit Amazon or Newegg. For basic Web surfing and MS Word no new machine will do you wrong so don't worry too much. Don't let the paradox of choice flummox you; all these machines have the same OS and the same software and processors that are way overpowered for what you're doing. Any "choice" you face is more like the choice between Post and Kellogg's raisin bran, not like the choice between Hoover Dam or Fukushima Daiichi or even like the choice between a cat or a dog.
Penny - plain text accounting
Almost all laptops today come with 1366x768 LCDs. I make screen resolution my first criteria when selecting a laptop, since higher resolutions are so rare. If she uses the machine for multitasking and wants to see more than one window on the screen at a time, this will suck.
Of course, it appears the non-Pro Macbook has a 1280x800 screen, so if she's happy with that, then get whatever is on sale at Slickdeals.
Make sure you check out the touchpad in detail on the HP ProBook if you go that route. Work brought me a brand-new one and I cannot stand the touchpad. It's offset to be centered under the keyboard (not centered under the keyboard + numpad) so to me it's in a really awkward position on the left side of the laptop. Added to that is the all-together-no-seperation of the buttons at the bottom of the touchpad which are way too easy to hit with the touchpad in the location that they put it. I absolutely abhor using that touchpad.
SYS 64738
I would first suggest dual booting or virtualizing Windows on the Mac. Boot Camp, Parallels, and Virtualbox are all good solutions.
If the goal is to run Windows, with a real two or three-button touch pad or trackpointer, I would look for a notebook which is solidly built, for which you can get decent customer service, and parts are available well out of warranty.
Build quality limits you to Dell (Latitude and Precision lines only), HP, Lenovo, and Sony.
Customer service limits you to Dell, HP, and to a lesser extent, Lenovo,
Long-term (post-warranty) parts availability limits you to Dell and HP, and to a lesser extent, Lenovo.
What are her requirements? If she needs massive storage or wants mirrored storage, look for a notebook with internal RAID - like the Dell Precision M6500 (I have the M6400, which is the M6500's predecessor, and I love it - desktop chipset, RGB-LED backlit display, it's built like a tank, and is uber-serviceable so easy to upgrade and maintain) or if you don't want to spend that much on a notebook, consider the Latitude line, which generally use the same chassis as the Precision line (so they are also built like tanks) but with mobile chipsets and tend to be slightly lighter. Another option to save money is to call the Dell Outlet and see if they have the model you want as an "open box" return. It would still be marked with a refurb SKU but would be in perfect, as-new condition, and you can save up to $3K on the notebook like I did. Availability from the outlet can be spotty though - I had to call to get the configuration I wanted. They could have 20 of the exact config you want on hand today, and zero tomorrow, and three the next day. People often scour the outlet and flip them on feeBay and at computer fairs.
The items you want to check:
* How solid is the chassis? Will the screen hinges hold up?
On consumer models if you are not careful opening and closing the screen by grasping it at the sides near the hinges you will flex and eventually break the frame. On business models, you can just press down at the top of the screen and it won't flex, and it will close properly. I actually dropped my M6400 at a customer site, and it fell 3' to the tiled-covered concrete floor. It didn't damage it at all but for a consumer chassis I would have had to buy a whole new screen/lid/hinge assembly
* How serviceable is it? Download the service manuals of the model you are looking at. Are you going to hate the tedium of the four-hour project of upgrading the processor and hard drives, or will it be a 15 minute task? How accessible are the SO-DIMM slots?
* Does it offer all the connectivity you need?
* How easily can you get at the heat sinks to clean out the inevitable dust and lint?
You really didn't mention her needs in detail other than "it needs to run Windows" so if she is happy with the virtual second button and no middle button, just install Windows on the Mac (see first paragraph above). My next notebook will most likely be another Precision mobile workstation (but will check out Lenovo again), and my next desktop an iMac (why no macbook pro? I have one and never use it - I like the three-button layout, numeric keypad, screen, performance, and trackpointer + touchpad on the Precision)
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
How to buy a perfectly fine laptop in 2 easy steps:
1. Decide how much you want to spend
2. Go to any laptop manufacturers website. Spend slightly more than that.
Congratulations! You have now mastered the most common way us normal folks buy computers. It may feel strange to a Mac guy, but most of the world has figured out long ago that there is no use in worrying about the details when you're looking for a bog standard PC. Get on with your life.
-Lod
I choose a Windows laptop by asking several poignant questions:
1. How does it respond to a hammer?
2. Does it smoke, do sparks fly?
3. What happens if I drop it from a ten-story window?
I'm a regular listener to Windows Weekly, with Paul Thurott and Leo Laporte. He mentioned Microsoft Signature at the Microsoft store. Here is a link to the article. It is apparently a very Apple store like experience, and they clean the computers of all the crud that is on the laptops originally. They sell several different brands. Hope this helps.
NDxTreme Content on the Edge.
There was another tech spinoff from IBM some years before Lenovo's laptop business: Lexmark was formerly IBM's consumer printer division. Look how that spinoff turned out: they try to use DRM and the DMCA to hog the toner market and have one of the worst capacity-to-cost ratios for inkjet ink. I bought one Lexmark inkjet printer, and it was my last.
I guess I am a bit late to this party. Any how, I recommend a Lenovo laptop. They have a solid build quality but are slightly expensive (compared to Dell). Check out the Lenovo laptop chooser (shop.lenovo.com) to help you decide your specs, even if you are not going to buy from them. And like some others mentioned giving preference to business laptops may be better in the long run. Good luck!
I got the Dell Latitude E5510 for my wife. The change from XP to Windows 7 was not a problem. Do not, repeat, do not bring up technical specs--that would be like her asking your opinion on nuances of fabric colors (assuming you really don't have a strong opinion about fabric colors). Just buy a good, business-grade laptop and leave it at that. "Honey, here is a new laptop that should last you at least five years or so..."
Keep the Mac, change the wife...
If the point of the computer is to run a few applications then that is a needlessly expensive way of doing it. Buy a $300 Toshiba and put the wife on a limited account. Done and done.
Have they bought into the Mac reliability myth?
http://www.binplay.com/2010/09/reason-5-why-i-will-not-buy-macbook-not.html
Toshiba and Mac rate much higher than HP and Gateway when it comes to reliability.
Never go to a store for PC laptops as your fist step. This is very basic, but here we go: Define your needs. What are you going to be doing with it? (work/play, screensize, storage, batteries power). Find a couple of brands and READ THE REVIEWS of models that have what you need. Then go to a store and pick them up, make sure they look alright to you in person. Then go home and order them. Also I find it a myth that stores offer store only models unless you are going to bad stores or looking at off brands. In any case, know the models you want to check BEFORE you go to the store. The store should be a place like FRYs or bestbuy but not a place like staples or office depot.
Are you kidding us? You managed to pick a wife and cannot pick a Windows laptop? Are you trying to fool us thinking Bill Gates is much more evil than God himself?
Achille Talon
Hop!
Coming from a Mac World the most convenient and logical path would be like the Apple store, go to the Microsoft store.
http://www.microsoftstore.com
Then select [Computers] from the Nav list to the Left.
It's not one to one, but its ideology is very similar. You have a limited number of laptops, desktops and tablets. I favor HP, Lenovo and Samsung for their build quality and aftersale notifications and updates, specific to the hardware.
Microsoft spends extra time customizing the OS so that its optimized for the hardware, tweaked as it were, and does not allow salesware, adware or demoware on their version of the Microsoft OS store experience.
Based on your wifes preferences you might want to consider a Business class of the OS, generally called "Professional" which means it comes with remote support and corporate networking features like Active Directory "join" support.
There is not an "Appstore" experience that I'm aware of yet.. but Intel has an App Market of sorts..Microsoft did have an App store experience at one time but discontinued it. Apple subsequently started their App store experience and succeeded (prior Art?) so you'll still have to purchase Office.. but you can take advantage of her business relationships (such as does she work for a School, State or Federal government agency) to get the product at reduced pricing. Family packs were also tried with Microsoft and come and go periodically.
Office is also not a prerequesite.. there are free alternatives like Libre Office, check Wikipedia for the history. However many products in the Microsoft ecosystem require or share common files with the Office suite.. and installing one without the Office suite already installed may lead to dependencies being automatically installed which could be hard to keep up with. Its rather like YUM on Linux you have to have some common points of reference for software libraries and they do the best they can to do them for you you. .Net is Microsoft's version of Java its also called "Managed Code" and generally you have to have one installed for many management apps to work. Windows 7 I believe is the first to even include a version of .Net as part of the base install. Like Java however one version of .Net is generally not enough.. your mileage may vary but the call interface between versions varies.. new calls are added old one removed.. sometimes with warning.. sometimes not.
Java is a manual install.. and you generally need that for many things. Microsoft can no longer install it for you.. so you have to do it yourself. Again one version is generally not enough. The Java update mechanism is also very annoying.
Flash is yet another call interface you'll need for most things and updates rapidly.
And alternative browsers like Safari, Chrome, IE (depends on flavor of the month), and Firefox.. one browser is usually not enough.. we need a bookmark manager that selects the browser based on the URL.. funnily enough.. the fragmentation is really that bad.
There is a lot of drama over whether to hunt down and disable "all" updaters.. or whether thats safe behavior.. generally update mechanisms are going through a breakdown right now where they conflict and can easily leave a system unusable. Some discussion over an Update API for the OS to manage conflicts of interest are underway... to lock out Updaters that don't ask for permission.. many antivirus programs mistake rouge updaters as "Viral" activity. UAC just wasn't flexible enough.. and often gets disabled.. more so than usually admitted.
Microsoft makes Security Essentials for home users.. its basic anitvirus and antispam for free and gets updated regularly.. but if the laptop is joined to a domain there may be reporting requirements.. like this system has been scanned on such an dsuch a day back to the domain admins.. or XYZ virus was detected and fixed.. or WUV patch was applied on such and such a date to prevent FritzwillyConficker18 infections. Then you
I would choose a Windows laptop based on the availability of Linux drivers for every chip in the thing.
Yes, this does mean that I have not bought a Windows laptop since 1997.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
depends, toss "aluminium unibody construction" on the list of features or "firewire", and you are right back up in apple prices, if you can even find the first outside on an apple. Also, look at the high resolution option of the 15" pro, now find me a "windows" laptop with the same size&&resolution, and see if it is cheaper.
Sorry, i don't own an apple product(anymore, my ipod from circa 2003, broke about 4 years ago), but if you are looking for a high res screen, and a metal case, just about the only player is apple. It's a shame they seem to not want to sell the 13" pro though, what with it's i3, and low res screen...
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
No, He should just use the hardware he has, AND stick to Mac OS; he should, however, get a new spouse.
(Him being a Mac user, I hesitate to make assumptions on the gender indentity of his future partner.)
Let me get this straight: You say you're a "Mac guy" and you need to buy a laptop that will run Windows and you find the process "bewildering". In fact, the author uses the term "bewildered" or "bewildering" at least three times in one paragraph.
I don't want to say that your statement confirms my belief about most Mac users, but it's really not all that hard. The only difference is that instead of relying on advertisements alone, you can peruse some of the extensive and exhaustive reviews of current laptops from various manufacturers that you can find online. I'm betting that if you Google "Windows laptops reviews 2011" you'll get exactly what you need. Or you can use Consumer Reports if you find the reviews "bewildering". They have little green or black dots for things like reliability, and features and so forth. You can even visit a Microcenter or Tiger Direct in your area and let your wife look them over. The ones that run Windows have these stickers on them that say so.
You'll be pleased with the prices.
You are welcome on my lawn.
It is far more likely to "solve" the problem and make her happier, which is what you really want. I use both Macs and PC's. I bought a Lenovo G560 from NewEgg.com for $399, and it was a terrific deal. The best I could find anywhere, and it is a pretty fast Windows 7 PC.
I've picked a few laptops for people recently. The most important thing to find out up front is your screen size - do you want a huge 17" or do you want a 10" netbook? or something in between? Once you've figured that out, find one that has a reasonable resolution. A lot of laptop vendors are getting away with selling screens that have a low vertical pixel count - which is not OK with me... Find a nice screen with the size that you're looking for. Then find out which vendor is running a good deal on something that size. Also be careful picking your vendor - they're all made out of the same stuff, but some tend to break more easily than others. Pay for the upgrades that are reasonably priced - get a decent processor. Spend the extra hundred or so on an SSD (not sure if the vendors offer this yet, you might have to get your own) - it'll improve performance dramatically.
Go to newegg.com
Click PCs & Laptops -> Laptops / Notebooks
On the Left Panel click "More Options"
Under "Graphic Type" choose "Dedicated Card" then click "Search" at the bottom
On the top right Sort By "Lowest Price"
Then choose the best laptop you want for the metric you desire: Lowest Price, Size/Weight, Performance/Features
How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
So his wife's laptop dies, and he goes and buys a new MacBook for himself and tries to pawn off the leftovers to his wife, putting her in unfamiliar territory for 6 months? That's pretty harsh man.
Just buy a Sony laptop within your price range as they are the only ones that look kewl. It's a simple decision. Looks count more with a laptop! ;)
I have a P2110 from 2002 that still boots and apart from the green line of pixels(from a fall), and the non 0 battery life, and the bad power cord it works great. Has a transmeta TM5800 in it, around the seepd of a 450mhz PIII system.
I would buy another fujitsu in a heartbeat if only they they had some with discrete gpus in them.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
Well, 17 in laptops do have dedicated numpads.
But, strangely, ever so strangely, regardless of the huge amount of horizontal space 17inchers have, they add a numpad, but then delete the menu key.
That's that key to the left of the Ctrl key on most (desktop) keyboards with a picture of a menu on it and a mouse arrow. Yeah, it was added by Microsoft with their PC 95 specifications, but it's all kinds of handy.
For people who know how to type, and prefer to keep their hands on the keyboard, it brings up what would otherwise be the "right-click menu". It works in Nautilus, Thunderbird, gedit, gnome-terminal, many/most Windows programs, etc.
Anyway, different people have different ways of working. But there's no excuse to not have it on a 17 inch laptop.
I'm looking at you, Dell Studio 17, but there are others with the same disease.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
I tried that...
13" screen: check!
4lb: Check
at least 512MB video ram: 0 results...
ohh well...
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
And the sound...check out the speakers if they're at all important.
No sig today...
Nope. "Spec" means nothing these days. They're all fast enough.
It's much more important to go to the shop and touch them. Try the trackpad buttons. Get one that feels right.
No sig today...
2001 called, they want their troll post back
Ask Slashdot: Where bad ideas meet poor googling skills.
I agree that a ThinkPad is near-indestructible. However add a stoner daughter college kid, cat who repeatedly likes to knock over drinks into the laptop, and boyfriend who decides to dry it out with her industrial-strength hairdryer. Hilarity ensues.
I delved deep into the heart of reddit and slashdot, amazon and best buy reviews, various PC manufacturers' help forums, complaint forums, tech review websites, and even youtube. I slithered past reviews citing unexplainable ear-splitting whiny noises, dick-melting fan heat, and horrendous customer support. I viewed so much marketing bullcrap from the likes of Dell and HP that my eyes nearly fell out of my skull.
I did this in search of The One: the laptop I knew I would grow to depend on for constant usage 12-15 hours per day for the next 3-5 years, the laptop that would meet all of my insane expectations like good customer support, a manufacturer that employs engineers who have their heads on straight, and steep technical requirements that I thought would be impossible to find. I needed a laptop with a 250+GB hard drive, a 2.0+ghz processor, 2+GB RAM, plus no-bull-crap, honest, actual, reportedly GOOD battery life, a 13"+ screen, AND here's the kicker. It had to weigh less than 4 pounds AND be under $800.
Netbooks and tablets were too small, too weak. All the well-known laptops like Dells and HP's were cheap but too heavy, their battery life ephemeral at best, and their small hard drives loaded with bloatware.
You can all thank God that I did not give up then and there.
I now hold in my hands The One. The best bang-for-your-buck laptop on the market today. I'll be god damned if you can find a better deal.
I chose to buy a Toshiba Portege R705-P35 for $700 flat.
It has a 13.3" screen, which is kind of small, but still big enough to do some serious reading on it. It's a very small price to pay for:
Even better, in 2009, Toshiba was ranked #2 by Squaretrade in terms of lowest laptop malfunction rates after 3 years. My R705 looks and feels solid. I'll admit it doesn't feel as nice as a Macbook Air, but considering that I saved over $500 vs a less well-equipped Macbook Air and didn't bend to Steve Jobs' will, it's good enough. Also, the R705 comes with an optical drive (take THAT, Macbook Air).
TLDR: I love my Toshiba Portege R705-P35 and would kill anyone who comes near it with bad intentions.
Determine what she wants and rank the features, then find what matches those features.
I just bought a new Windows Laptop, a HP DM4T, and this is the process that I used.
I was looking for a laptop for travel that supported HD MKV videos (light, long battery life, i5 processor, 500GB+ HD), graduate level school work (decent keyboard), photo editing (good screen), and the ability to play video through a TV (HDMI port). This narrowed down the list of laptops to the Macbook Pro, Macbook Air, HP DM4T, Sony Vio, a Dell, and a Thinkpad.
I ended up choosing the 14" LED HD widescreen, 4.5lbs, core i5, 8GB RAM, 640GB 7200 RPM hard drive DM4T. I took it recently on a two week vacation to Cancun and it worked perfectly with everything that I threw at it.
Thanks,
David
The keyboard makes the biggest difference. When somebody asks me what kind of laptop I should get, I tell them "Anything except e-Machines, Gateway, Acer and Sony" and then "just get one that has a keyboard you like and make sure it has at least 4GB ram."
And that is my suggestion to you.
Nobodies Prefect
Tidbits for Techs Technology Blog
There are a number of slashdotters commenting about how stupid the layout of PC keyboards are. I have tended to find the reverse true of PC keyboards. Particularly ones with media keys.
You like what you are used to.
I find Mac stuff tends to hide complexity and unneeded features, but doesn't treat you like an idiot. The features are usually there and easily discoverable, but you have to want to learn. In particular the command and option keys bring power that Linux/Windows users wouldn't even think of existing. But you have to be smart enough to notice it is there and not only look skin deep.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
because she wants him too.
Get it?
Women aren't rational creatures. Period.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
couldn't you just install Windows on the MacBook 2008?
why do you want buy a whole new computer if all you want is a different OS?
Search Google for:
macbook 2008 windows 7
macbook 2008 windows xp
We installed Windows XP Professional on a 32GB partition on our new 2.4Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo powered MacBook with 2GBs of RAM.
What a waste to ditch a computer just because you want to use a different OS.
The GP's advice (pick by picture) is not so good, in general.
But it may work well with the GP and his wife (or girlfriend, I suppose).
Women are all different.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
If your wife doesn't need intensive gaming or complicated environments and only uses a laptop for web browsing, office work or other rudimentary tasks then I would also say go for Linux to save money. You can buy a basic laptop for pittance or, if she doesn't mind the design, just install it on the mac.
I still choose windows because I'm a hardcore gamer and on that front, Linux still disappoints me.
If you want to buy a new windows laptop, here's what I did. First look at a competent company, as far as construction is concerned. Then look at the work space the laptop offers and then match specs which, as far as I can see, are not different from the mac.
I got a Toshiba Satellite L500 which is big and wide with a full keyboard, from a company that built my wife's still going eight year old machine. It has a decent CPU, GPU combo that can even run Crysis well. Perfect for my gaming needs.
If you only want one for office work, I'd go with a Lenovo laptop which are usually smaller, has a very comfortable design for long periods of work (I just love the joystick, they have) and they are also a very competent company (my brother has one which he has worked on for several years now). You don't need a very powerful CPU so just pick one of the Intel E brand or an AMD Athlon. And unless some high def video is involved, pretty much any GPU would do. I wouldn't go for less than 2GB of memory either way. And you might want to try breaking a 500GB HD in half and make it dual boot with Linux.
No one ever said being a Heretic was easy.
Let us meet again in "Less Interesting Times"
Helping a person choose for him or herself is the best general approach I've found when people ask me for advice on buying computers. (Well, when I feel obliged for some reason to help.)
But choosing from pictures is only good for the wife that likes catalog shopping. Hands-on is always a good thing.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
One question I'd ask before even suggesting installing MSWindows on the older Mac:
Did he just give her the Mac and let her try to figure it out for herself, or is he making sure to be in calling distance part of her working time? Even if installing MSWindows virtualized on the old Mac (if it supports it), he should be sure that he is available to get her over at least some of the speed bumps she hits. Maybe make a work date where they work together.
A little TLC goes a long ways to help people handle context and paradigm shifts.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
Actually,what she probably wants is a little face time with him. I'm not talking about how close, just that he probably mostly needs to give her a little more of his time.
So, first, he should be their while she's working on the thing, and answer questions and ask questions.
Second, shoot a little cash on an OEM copy of MSWindows, max out the RAM, install MSWindows virtualized, and let her use that while they do the third step.
Third step, if it's necessary, make some dates to go shopping with her, on-line and in brick-and-mortar stores. Get her some brochures. Hold her hand while she's trying things in the stores.
Let her make the final decision.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
You should choose a configuration sufficient to cater to your work.
Thiet ke web
Make buying the new notebook an excuse for shopping dates. Let her make as many of the decisions as she will, except, when she settles on something she really likes, max the RAM and HD like everyone says.
Then take it home, install Linux on it and re-install MSWindows virtualized in that. Erm, well, since the guy who is asking doesn't mention using Linux himself, maybe not that.
Anyway, after they get it home, he needs to plan time he can be around when she's working, so he can help her over the speedbumps.
(Actually, I would start and end with making sure he's around to help her. If he forgot that part when he gave her his old Mac, that's part of the problem.)
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
The great majority of these "features" don't matter. I'd get something multicore, with double Windows' base RAM requirement, shun the bottom barrel "home edition" of the OS, and the rest is price and size. But that's me.
If she's only going to surf the web and play Solitaire, I'd get the cheapest laptop I could find. Any modern sub-$500 laptop will fulfill the requirement of a casual surfer. Even the lowest end Mac would be way overkill.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
A little bit late to be posting this, but, ...
What she might really be asking for is some of your time.
First, make some work dates with her, where you are both working in the same room for some extended time. When she has problems, don't tell, ask. Get her opinion, write it down in a notebook so you can refer to it later when you go shopping, then say, "... well, anyway, here's how I do it." Be careful not to say or imply she has to do it that way.
(This can be hard with people close to you, you may have to re-think how you are interacting with her. But it's worth the effort.)
Now, if she really has issues with the Mac UI, the next step is to max the RAM on it, get a virtualization environment, and install MSWindows on it. Preferably in a VM, if the machine supports virtualization.
But you're still not done. You'll still need to be around to help her over the speedbumps.
Well, if it's clear that the peculiarities of the Mac keyboard are an issue, you may need to skip that step.
The 3rd step is to make getting the new machine for her a series of dates, both on the web and in real stores. Let her choose what she looks at and tries out, make sure she gets hands-on time with the software she uses most, and do your homework after you get home with literature and the notes you took. (Don't forget the notebook. At least think about paper and pencil instead of the MacBook.) You'll know what to check on by what she shows interest in.
4th step -- don't just drop the dates after she has her new machine. The new versions of the software, all of that is going to be more speedbumps. Besides,regularly giving your wife some of your time is a good habit to keep. Rewarding for you, too.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
The best purchase I ever made was a Dell V13, which, including an upgraded SSD drive, cost me around 500$. It is about the size of a MacBook Air but it still feel very sturdy, actually much more than my Dell Inspiron (which is heavy and not so great).
I have bigger and stronger machines but the V13 is so light and well-built that it is the one I use most of the time at home, and it's the one I carry when I travel. It is so small I don't even need to bring a laptop case, I simply put it in the side pocket of my carry-on luggage.
Dell products are usually not top of the line, but they offer a lot for a low price tag. I don't think any PC manufacturer can offer a service as good as Apple (with the Apple Stores and friendly staff) but Dell is pretty good.
lucm, indeed.
Yes, the Apple touchpad offers all the awful features that make OS X unbearable to many users such as myself. And it does them MUCH worse since their Windows driver for the touchpad is the one driver that works like shit under Windows. Mind you, I don't even have OS X on my MacBook, I bought it specifically to use as a Windows machine. I use my Mac Mini as the Mac at our house and use iRapp to use the Mac via remote. That way I can use XCode for making iPhone apps without haven't to use the Mac desktop.
Let's also cover some other problems.
1) Games
Using the Mac Touchpad is utter crap for that. External mouse mandatory. It's just too damn big and there is no tactile feedback to let you know when you're touching the right place. Decent notebooks have a border that lets you know your finger is at the edge of the pad either because of a beveled boundary or because of a change in the texture of the surface of the pad itself. This is just one HUGE surface that feels the same as the laptop case itself.
2) The keyboard
OMFG with a major emphasis on the 'F'. It is by far the worst keyboard EVER!!!! It's missing so many keys it's useless and then the Alt key is so damn small that you might as well just go out, get an external mini keyboard and glue it on top of the Mac keyboard. I mean, really. What were they thinking? Let's not forget the totally absent home, end, pg up and pg dn keys. If I have to program ON A MAC, I do it from the terminal using VI since document navigation is at least possible that way. I'm just waiting for them to remove the '!' key as it could be considered offense to someone... or the colon as it is an archaic method of preceding ordered lists and should use fancy icons instead in the future.
3) The CD eject button
If and when it works... great.... but every version of bootcamp screws it up more.
My other 4 work notebooks are toshibas... best machines ever!
At least when choosing a laptop with Linux pre-installed you're not spoilt for choice!
You can change the Macbook to run Windoze, but Apple's problem has always been overpriced hardware.
BETTER, buy the best performing, value priced Windoze laptop, and hackintosh it!
(The difference in price and performance on desktop's are stunning.)
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
"I can tell that everyone suggesting you just put Windows on the Mac has never been married, or probably had a LT girlfriend"
On Slashdot? You think?
Captain Obvious: My job here is done.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
Get her an etch-a-sketch. Need to reboot? Just shake it. :D
If your wife goes back to Windows, you must make sure she accepts that she has to solve her own problems. Trivial things like things refusing to work, random crashes, updated ad infinitum (which typically happen when you're working), the need to defrag, the need to slow down the box with anti-virus (and the worry that a zero-day will still get her) - I mean, she should know you care but that it really is her problem.
Apart from that, re-cycle the Mac with either bootcamp or parallels. The latter has the advantage that there's less transition. As for SW, make sure you use Kaspersky for anti virus, and Acronis Home Image for backup - that allows at least a bare metal restore when Windows does what it does best (fail)..
Good luck!
Insert
It really depends on your budget but the biggest single price issue is screen size - the best deals are for 15.6 screens but if she wants something larger or smaller then the prices for decent machines go up wildly. Look for a powerful processor with a good GPU that has dedicated RAM, as much non-graphics RAM as you can afford and x64 Windows 7 with good build quality and you should have a machine which will perform well and last a long time. http://www.cpubenchmark.net/ is really handy for checking on what's good/not for processor and GPU deals Both Lenovo and Samsung make excellent machines which both look good (which could be important, quite a few of my female friends use Samsung) and have great build quality
Let her chose the computer herself. I would never help anyone get a Windows computer because i know whatever happens to it down the line, i will be held responsible when it brakes down and is full of virii.
HTTP/1.1 400
[quote]If she wants to do -heavy- photo editing, you'll want a slightly beefier CPU. Not a Core i3, but a Core i5.[/quote]
A Core i5 is not "beefier" than an i3. They're both dual cores. The i5 can operate 10% faster when loaded, but that's meaningless if the i3's top clock is the same speed as the i5's turboboosted. The i3's will invariably be cheaper than the i5's. If you're going to get an i5, it better be the quad core one without the graphics on a chip, and only because its cheaper than a comparable i7 (which is soon becoming . Don't fall for marketing hype.
And your approach is all wrong for the purchaser (the wife). You're presuming she's a geek that will meltdown if one feature is missing or substandard. I have yet to meet the chick that zeroed in on technical specs like that. All they care about is if the laptop does what they want reasonably well. And other aesthetic features which defy characterization. (roll eyes)
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
Man I wish I had a mod point to give you.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
Almost right, but don't ever buy a laptop without touching it. Specs may be nice but if the hinges are floppy new, the lid or the whole thing bends like a twig when lifted by one corner and plastic feels thin and cheap then your money is better spent elsewhere. Your machine will soon die of simple physical fatigue. And avoid HP Pavilion type huge laptops. From what I hear from people who bought theirs last year, their cooling STILL sucks and they are still prone to heat death the moment warranty runs out after a year from purchase.
The HP Envy is a pretty fantastic notebook. The price is a little higher than your stock consumer-oriented HP notebook, but then it's quite a bit better than your average stock consumer-oriented HP notebook. I just got one for my wife and I can say the name is very appropriate... I am envious.
Summary: I buy Apple laptops.
I went through so many troubles simply trying to buy a Windows (well actually Linux) laptop that I even do not want to recall it.
First of all, what with the shit private vs. corporate customers?? Hey HP and Dell and Toshiba - why all I as a private person could buy from you was the cheap plastic shit?? If you do not what me to buy from you...
And the retailers are f****ing dumb. And the producers produce only the configuration which are right now in stock. WTF? I would never forget the sale guy who told me that there is no difference between this $3000 ThinkPad and this $1200 Acer, it's just IBM is always more expensive.
So I went Apple. Keyboard layout - check. Consistent model numbers so that I know what I buy (and can find a review for it) - check. Competent support - check.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
I am sure that you have got a huge number of responses that is equally confusing! :)
The thing is, on a windows laptop, they are all pretty much the same with only minor differences in technology.
I am going to try and step back and give you a different peice of advice. ASk your wife to go to a local computer store and see each model one by one, and try and use it. Test the ergonomics, and so on. And choose based on that.
Thats my advice.
Have a nice day!
In my *limited* personal experience Hibernation is the feature that works least well on Linux vs. Windows. Whilst I use Ubuntu as my main OS on desktop and laptop, both are slower to hibernate and slower to resume on Ubuntu than Windows 7, and Linux frequently fails to hibernate at all. I find resume from hibernate to be 3-5x slower on Ubuntu than Windows 7. That said, I still prefer Ubuntu (and will be trying out some other Linux flavours on my various machines in the near future as well), and although it's inconvenient and not desirable that hibernation is buggy/slow comparted to windows, the cost of the OS and the other desirable features outweigh this rather minor disadvantage.
For web browsing and document editing ANY $300 15" notebook off the shelf at Best Buy will suffice. Even a netbook would probably do if you can live with a 10" screen, and in that case the whole machine will likely cost less than a retail Windows license for 'recycling' the old MAC.
It was actually a netbook, but same deal.
I went to Best Buy, and typed on every single netbook on display under $800.
Then I bought the one with the best keyboard. Simple, eh?
My logic: They are all "good enough" to run a browser and an ssh client. What else would you use a Windows box for?
FWIW, I wound up with an Acer Aspire something-something. They came in three colours, so I bought blue, because that's the company colour. It was even the right shade!
It has 3GB of ram, a 2GHz or better CPU (probably single core) and a really big harddrive (350GB?). It came with a Vista license and a free upgrade to Windows 7. I think it was like $350 or something.
And, of course, a web cam, wifi, ethernet, bluetooth, some USB ports, maybe a card reader..
Fan-freaking-tastic machine as far as I am concerned. Runs like a champ. I even put Office '97 on it. It flies!
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
I don't know if my desire to hit mac fanboys in the face with a shovel is related more to their smugness or their ignorance.
I check the major manufactures' sites, and custom configure setups I'm looking for specifically. Most laptop makers allow for CTO (Configured to Order) configuration, which really let you chose the components of the laptop.
after having come closest to what I need at each manufacturer's site, I compare the various end results, and then chose :)
How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?
Few laptops will be anything but "obsolete" in two years. But that's the same if you buy an HP, Apple, Dell, Acer, or whatever. Just keep an eye out on any forthcoming tech bumps (Wireless-N, Blue-ray, # of cores, discrete vs. shared video ram) and you'll do fine.
I pick laptops on vendor first (Gateway didn't get their reputation for crappy computers for nothing, for example -- and I like HP, as I have a bunch of laptops that all use the same power cords), features second (I'm a sucker for the touchsmart laptop), and price third.
Price on the web first, but don't forget to check your local big-box stores. I scored a sweet deal on my first laptop from best buy -- they had it for the same price it would have been built and shipped from HP, but with more options than I needed.
(FWIW, My current recommendation would be at least a dual-core CPU, Wireless-N if you have it now or will before you replace the laptop, and skip the blue-ray or DVD player unless there's no additional charge or they're very important to you. Discrete RAM is entirely dependent on if you're going to do any gaming with the laptop; if it's just email and word docs, don't bother. If you're going to fire up The Sims or City of Heroes or Eve Online, it's a must.)
Hold you shovel there, HotTuna. I'm not a Mac fanboy, I'm a smart wife fanboy.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
You forget how shiny it looks, and you judge it by the content. So you do something called r-e-a-d-i-n-g and "read" the label in the store. It will tell you what CPU and graphics card it has, how much RAM it comes with, and how much hard disk space. You will also see the clock speed. Using your knowledge of processors (gained from "reading" articles on the internet) you will be able to understand the difference between a 64 bit AMD Athlon, an Intel Centrino, and a Quad Core i7. Then, instead of buying the laptop that Steve Jobs tells you you need, you do something called "using your judgement" and you can CHOOSE a laptop.
Please note that the "choosing" part is hard to do, especially the first few times. There is a chance you can "get it wrong". But then again just think, since your new non mac laptop costs 1/2 the price of a Mac, at worst case you can just buy another one, and still come out ahead... /troll
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
When our 2004-era Windows XP laptop .... she inherited my still serviceable 2008 MacBook. But after about six months, she hasn't gotten used to it, and wants a Windows machine....How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?
You've got bigger problems. If she can't tolerate the relatively simple and painless transition from XP to OSX, she will certainly not survive the transition to Vista or newer and will not survive the transition to the latest version of Office with its ribbon abomination.
Soooo. Your problem isn't buying a windoze laptop, your problem is purchasing and maintaining a complete 2004 era infrastructure, in its entirety, including maintenance of "unsupported" software. Possible / tolerable / no problem in opensource land, not possible in windoze land.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
My recommendation is a ThinkPad. I bought a ThinkPad T510 recently and can't be more happier with it.
This ThinkPad T510 is the second laptop I bought, my first laptop was a Dell XPS M1530, and if I knew about ThinkPads I would have never bought a Dell in the first place.
ThinkPad quality is incredible.
Pick several name brand manufacturers of machines that will run Windows natively. Figure out which machines from their lineup are "business class" machines (i.e., not the cheap consumer-class stuff with fantastic looking specs but that don't hold up in the long run). From these, find the ones that have the peripheral support you want (USB, Bluetooth, 802.11 a/g/b/n, video cards, resolutions, etc.) For basic needs, probably most business class machines will have what you need built-in (businesses tend to want to buy hardware once, not buy and then add crap on later). Compare price/Mhz to make sure you are not out at the bleeding edge of the performance curve (i.e., paying too much for the best speed possible) - sometimes the best pricing is in the middle of the pack, sometimes its on the model they want to clear out because a new leader is on the way. If you have the time/want to torture yourself, take the time to understand which processors are used in which. Make sure your final choices have enough memory (or that you have a plan to add quality aftermarket memory more cheaply). If you want an extended support agreement, throw in the cost of that as well. With this winnowed down list, read reviews. Make sure that any reviews you read are a) about the exact model you plan to buy, and b) are by people who aren't complete idiots.
Pick the one of these that you feel best about buying after reading some reviews, looking at the prices, etc. Then don't look at any new ads. Whatever you buy will be much cheaper in 6 months, why torture yourself?
Whenever I'm about to go shopping for an expensive product wih many different choices available, in a field that I do not consistently read consumer reports about so as to be immediately informed about the choices and quality, one of the first things I am going to do is to ask the people I know online for help in choosing something, because one of them is bound to know much more about the subject than I do. I don't see what's so lazy about a guy soliciting for help about purchasing a product - hell, I call that the smart way to go.
Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
while you are correct that the plethora of choices makes choosing a laptop hard (r u listening, linux fork people ?) the key, as with any purchase, is to try and define what it is you want the product to do.
Also, since wintel boxes are so much cheaper then macs, for running the software you want, you can afford to buy two, so, rather then thinking of them as super $ things that have to last a long time, a wintel box is something you can throw out every few years; sounds strange but it works
If you just want email and an occaisional word doc, then go light with good battery life.
If you want to run complex solidworks models, go hog wild on the latest ram and ssd
do spring for more HD then you think you need; HD space is always precious.
Get at least 3 gig ram
Most "features" are just not that important; sure, you will be slightly annoyed if you don't have this or that, but that is true for any laptop; there is always something the other guy has; thats life. If you are not sure, the almost invariable rule of thumb, which works for laptops, toasters and cars, is to pick the middle of the market; that is where volume gives good value. If you go to cheap, you get less per dollar (why, I'm not sure, but cheap crap is cc) and if you go $ you are paying more for the same features with some bells and whistles (look at performance of a 20K camry vs a 40K lexus or 80K BMW - really 2X or 4X car there ? even more pronunced in stereo equipment)
right now, the sweet spot is about 500-600 bucks/laptop, maybe 700 if you really want light weight - and check staples, their instore closeouts are reasonable.
Yeah, it sux doesn't it. I remember back when using MacOS8 I had all the functions windows had with it's multiple button mice on just one button mice. And I did prefer it that way.
Multi-button mice are for gamers, and even there it does a poor job. With OSX the possibility to have contextual menu with one button only disappeared. Talk about development going backwards.
Pff, as how can 2 buttons be better if 1 does the job.
The choice is easy... You just buy a MacBook. If you *really* need a Windows *notebook*, then okay, get a good one. And never keep the Windows you get with your machine. Lend a CD of an approperiate Windows version and install it with your product key. You just lost 1234 gigabytes of bloatware, congratulations!
One thing I recently found is more important than any other -- hard drive rotation speed. I bought a new laptop with a 7200 rpm drive and the increase in performance against a comparable machine with a 5400 rpm drive is impressive. HP offers the 7200 rpm drive for $10 or so. Best investment in a computer you'll ever make.
Apple has class packages specifically for folks like your wife. They aren't expensive and forestall a lot of frustration. I have a neighbor who is bipolar (so concentration problems) who converted from Windows XP to OS X; her husband enrolled her in the class and now she is completely comfortable with OS X. It is difficult to impossible to teach a spouse for host of psychological reasons. If she is open to it, buy her a class package and encourage her to bring her questions to class.
I used to work at a privately owned computer store after I got A+ certified, and I used to get people in that asked me about the same question. I always told them "You probably want something that will last instead of something that is shiny." and that's when I got the funny looks. When I explained that they really aren't going to need the top of the line because they're not using it more than what you would use a public terminal for. My personal opinion, is that Toshiba and Lenovo/IBM laptops are the longest lasting ones out there now. They're built well, have longer warranties than any other, and are spec'd for business usage and wear-and-tear. Note that they cost just about the same as a higher end Dell or HP, but either one of those laptops won't last half as long without serious problems occurring. And Toshiba and Lenovo/IBM are better about not installing a ton of useless software onto the machine.
Just go into your local Buy More store and ask the salesman which is the best one. ;)
exactly. I have been trying to find a cheap version of windows 7 for a while. I have even hunted down some wholesalers, and I can't seem to find it for less than retail, unless I am part of some ultra special group.
You used to be able to buy XP OEM disks from certain builders but I can't even do that anymore.
Check out Pricewatch. They have reasonable prices ($70 - 80) for Win 7. That's for a full install, not an upgrade.
ThinkPad's are god awfully ugly.
ThinkPad's what are ugly?
But beyond pointing out your wanton disregard for apostrophe usage, that's a matter of opinion. I think the unassuming, form-fits-function design of ThinkPads is beautiful and I personally much prefer it to anything else out there.
but the X220 can be had with an IPS panel while the T420 has a larger screen and optional discreet [sic] graphics. I hate compromising...
The day IPS displays return as an option to the T-series is the day I buy another one even if I don't need it.
I was disappointed to see the T420 move to a 16:9 screen from the 16:10 ratio I much prefer on a computer, but they made the right choice in increasing the screen resolution with the change, so I can't really complain too much as there's move usable real estate.
i've experienced over the years that toshiba has some of the best laptops around.
thinkpads were great when IBM was manufacturing them, lenova QC is getting better, but not as good as IBM was back in the day.
whitebooks/barebooks from sager/ocz whitebooks are great, but fit and finish are not as good as they could be...
go to best buy/microcenter/fry's/tiger and kick around a few laptops.
take a look at satellites and tecra models.
wipe the HDD and install just the OS(unless the recover disc restores OS+bloat, then get OEM XP or 7), drivers, and the software your wife needs.
three can keep a secret, if two are dead - benjamin franklin
So, there's only one button for the power window?
Yeah, press it and the window goes down.
What if I want it to go up?
Press Fn and the window button and the window goes up.
OIC. There's only one button for the power locks?
Yeah, press it and the door unlocks.
What if I want to lock the door.
Press Fn and the door lock button and the door locks.
Why is there only one pedal?
Depress the pedal to accelerate. Hold down Fn and depress the pedal to stop. Duh!
My wife's WinXP laptop died recently. Her brother suggested she get an Apple. She didn't want one, found her mom's confusing. Wanted to go with what she was used to. Unfortunately, the new laptop had Win7 on it, and she has been trying to get used to that. I find it seems a lot like Apple (I admit my experience with Apple and Win7 has been limited.) In ways I don't like. Win7 seems like a huge step backwards in user friendly-ness. I can't customize the start menu like I did in XP. The menu seems to be a disaster. The taskbar seems confusing, pointing at an icon and looking at pictures seems slower than finding what you were using in XP. I don't much care for the combining of the "quick launch" and the taskbar icons. Maybe sounds like a lot of "Get off my lawn!", but if your wife is used to XP, you may be screwed no matter what!! (On that note, new versions of Office (what for?) are confusing as hell too!)
I disable the touch-to-click on trackpads, because I'll be typing and some part of one of my hands will hit the trackpad and the cursor jumps somewhere or clicks a button or something.
Under OSX the Apple trackpads don't do that unless you enable Tap to Click, since the entire pad is also a mechanical button - so the cursor doesn't move if you inadvertently touch the trackpad unless you press it hard enough to also operate the mechanical switch. The older trackpads with the separate click button didn't do Tap to Click by default, either, since it's a feature that annoys as many people as those who like it.
You can designate a two-finger click to do the same thing as a right-click, or designate one of the lower (ie. the right or left) corners to operate as a right-click, or both, or neither (for old-timers who think ctrl-click is a good idea; it isn't, but it's still supported).
Putting moderation advice in your
I am surprised that no one has suggested the easiest solution would be for the person to get a new wife who is Apple friendly.
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
Some features to look forward to are things like a higher quality chipset and/or bios, security features in the bios, hard drive speed, quality of the power brick and durability of its cords, signal strength of the wireless card, quality contrast & color accuracy screen, aluminum or matte chasis, and elegance in the internal components for repair or upgrade. You can configure these for some features that are really out there but great choices for a consumer laptop, like Raid 0 solid state hard drives or fingerprint readers $40 for fingerprint reader is completely frivolous but I love them because I like to pretend I'm James Bond when I use mine.
From Dell I bought my Vostro notebook and my Precision workstation and they have been great computers while the Inspiron is a joke.
Ooh, hit a nerve there, did he?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
At the risk of sounding snarky, you're looking for something pretty basic.
Go to Futureshop/Bestbuy, look for one that meets your requirements, pretty much all of them will. Now buy the cheapest one. It'll cost you about 500$.
Done.
2001 called??? Did you warn them about 9/11 and Katrina and Haiti and Japan????
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.