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AMD Bulldozer Will Bring Socket Shift To PCs
An anonymous reader writes "One of the most dreaded hurdles on the PC upgrade path is the CPU socket. If socket design changes then you'll almost certainly need a new motherboard when you do upgrade. This is an area where AMD has historically been much better than Intel. Intel tends to change sockets with each generation of CPU — currently there are three types out there, LGA 1155 for Sandy Bridge, LGA 1156 for first generation core and LGA 1366 for the performance Core i7 processors. AMD on the other hand has always tried to keep sockets across generations. When it releases its new Bulldozer core desktop processors later this year AMD is having to make a socket shift from the current AM3 socket to a new one called AM3+. This article discusses the change, issues like backwards compatibility and what the industry is doing to prepare for the socket shift."
Perhaps you can only maintain backward compatibility so far.
I've built a lot of computers and have never once reused a motherboard. MB cost is trivial and usually comes with improvements--such as a faster FSB/more memory slots, etc. So even if my old MB could accept my new CPU, I would probably still buy one. And since I stopped gaming, I upgrade so rarely now that my old MB almost never supports the new CPU anyway.
Are there really people out there who upgrade their CPU's so often that this is even an issue?
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Nobody really replaces CPUs. As of a few years ago, 80% of desktop machines were never opened during their lifetime. That's probably higher now, and higher still for laptops.
because Intel has a SANDY bridge?
what the industry is doing to prepare for the socket shift
What is this supposed to mean? What is "the industry" to begin with? People who upgrade their PC are mostly hobbyists at home anyway. Corporate desktops and servers aren't upgraded, they are replaced when they've served their purpose. At least that's my experience.
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
While AMD's sockets have been pin compatible since socket AM2 there have definitely been incompatibilities between chipsets, BIOS's, chips, and ram along the way. The matrix of what's compatible with what is probably too big to fit onto even a B sized plotter sheet. This sounds like much the same thing where you can drop an AM3+ part into an AM3 socket with reduced performance. The only reason I can see doing that would be if you want more performance in a given power envelope as the new chips will give you much better MIPS/Watt.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Seriously, do you still think that's funny in 2011? In a few years, maybe you'll catch up to the Rickroll.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Good thing memory and it's sockets never change, then we'd really have a problem!
makes for lower MB costs as now they can make a board that will run today's chips as well as the new ones.
Better then Intel where the new i3 / i5 / i7 (lower end) have limited PCI-e (usb 3.0 and other stuff cuts in to pci-e) vs the older boards and the High end I7 need there own boards.
Intel should of had higher end I7 and the lower end stuff use the same chipset / sockets / boards.
Mod down, please.
When you start to talk major architecture shifts, you get other requirements that change as well. Power, memory, chipsets, and so on. Part of that can be a new socket.
While Intel is rather overzealous with the socket change thing, perhaps doing it just to push motherboard sales, AMD has been perhaps too focused on compatibility, not enough with pushing forward.
Given that Bulldozer is supposedly a very big change, the new socket is likely very non-optional.
Agree. Who really cares anyways? Computers are so affordable that buying a whole new set instead of just upgrading only the CPU is normal fare.
It's a goddamn waste, though. It's sickening to throw out all that electronics, metal, and otherwise pretty good hardware just because someone wants to upgrade or because a component died.
At least with computers we have some choice. The other day, a pump went out on my pressure washer. Pump: $249. New pressure washer: $259 - WTF! So, I either pay out the ass for a new pump, or chuck out a perfectly good engine, frame, hose, nozzle, etc ...
OR Norelco electric shaver. New: $40. Replacement blades: $32. WTF!!!
I tell ya, our consumerist disposable society is really getting out of fucking hand.
And I'll refrain from the pollution and filling landfills with our disposable products.
I've stopped buying that shit - No more consumer electronics because it is THE worst offender.
Oh dear god my eyes. Haven't seen THAT awful image in a while.
I think it is more done out of a "Here's something we offer that Intel doesn't," and maybe an attempt to appeal to the budget oriented crowd that tend to buy AMD.
Realistically, you probably want to upgrade your board when you upgrade your CPU. There are all kinds of new technologies that come along, not just faster CPUs.
For example I just upgraded my system from a Q9550 to an i7-2600k. Now of course I had to upgrade the board just because the socket changed, but I would have wanted to anyhow. Off the top of my head, here's the new things my new board gives me:
1) DDR3 RAM. It has doubled the measured memory speed in my system. That matters a lot for a faster CPU, I'd not get nearly so much benefit stuck on DDR2.
2) USB 3. I currently have no devices that use it, but the industry seems real interested and I think it is safe to assume I'll be getting some soon.
3) SATA 3. Again, no big deal right now but I can see getting an SSD in a year or two and it would be useful then.
4) UEFI. Much more capable than an old BIOS. My particular board has a full command line built in you can boot to for doing diags and so on.
The board upgrade was well worth it, particularly the memory. No sense in staying on slower RAM when getting a high end CPU. That just hamstrings things.
Really, it is likely a waste of money to upgrade your CPU more than once every 2-4 years and in that time enough will change that you'll really want a new board anyhow.
For that matter, you could end up needing one anyhow, even if the socket was the same. A new architecture can require a new chipset and new voltage regulators which would need a new mobo, even if the socket happened to be the same.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using the same socket, but I don't much care if it changes either.
Incorrigible skin-flints will insist on retrofitting new CPUs onto old motherboards despite voltage problem, BIOS problems, memory problems, etc. They then rage in forums about the horrible rip-off of GigaSUS, Biorock or SuperTAC because some chip won't work in a four year old board. For these folks there is AMD, at least until the board divests the remaining assets.
Are you fucking retarded? I don't believe you have ever purchased any such device. Fucking troll.
I mean seriously. This article is worth nothing other than telling people that there is a new socket which is somewhat compatible to the old one. But why is the change necessary and what is it for?
The blades that go in an ELECTRIC shaver are what he is referring to.
AMD's socket's might carry the same numbers, but the sockets don't always work all that readily. Often seems to be the fault of the motherboard maker, but I've had plenty instances where I bought a new chip only to find out that my mobo, though having a socket that is support by the chip, doesn't support chips of that power draw, or made at a certainly transistor size, or just past a certain point in manufacturing.
In the end, it's less hassle to just replace the board when you replace the chip either way. In my groggy old age (only 29, but I feel pretty old in computer terms :)) I just don't care about overclocking and whatnot anymore, and if you just want a barebones "plug it in and work at stock settings" board you can usually get one for under $50.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Please to post a link to this socket 423 or 478 or 778 to modern socket adapter.
AMD needs to make more powerful chips, I could care less about backward compatibility.
we only had one fucking socket type, we wouldn't sell as many units.
Good people go to bed earlier.
I have a 4 year old Athlon64 X2 system which is generally just fine - but I also still have its predecessor, a 7 year old Pentium 4 in a pretty nice Thermaltake case. So when I'll treat myself to an upgrade later this year, it is the old P4 that will get most of its components swapped out. The Athlon64 will make a nice secondary PC at my parents' place (where the P4 currently sits).
I'm sure lots of geeks have more than one computer from different generations, and could do something similar.
C - the footgun of programming languages
Geez... I understand your frustration with the current socket, but that's no reason to run over your computer with a bulldozer. Wait, what?
It may be silly but this is the sort of thing that makes me keep buying AMD. It shows they still respect their "power users".
I bought an Asus M2N-E motherboard several years ago for a single core Athlon 64 processor. Today, this same motherboard runs a Phenom X4 processor. And it will still hopefully serve other family members for some years when I finally switch it.
It may be silly, but I believe that all those "green aficionados" should be congratulating AMD. While Intel makes sure everyone needs to replace their MBs every year (and a lot of those go to the trash), AMD gives you another choice. Sure, most people just end up buying everything new again, but at least AMD gives you the choice.
If you upgrade the CPU, RAM, drives, and operating system, what's the difference between that and buying a new PC? If you buy a new PC, you can repurpose the old one.
Back in the day when I had the time and money to upgrade constantly these socket changes were a major inconvenience and expense. Now I don't upgrade much I just wait until I feel it's time and replace the whole thing. By then not only is there a new socket required, but new memory, new video card with a new DirectX, etc.
http://www.kubuntu.org/
I guess I am an AMD fanboy but this is what I have always liked about AMD. They make cheap, backwards compatible chips. I am using an AM3 chip in an AM2+ board. Not having much money makes compatibility brilliant for me as I did not need to upgrade my motherboard and RAM to get a new processor.
I guess I will need to make the jump to AM3+/whatever the latest Intel socket is these days and DDR3 ram some day though.
I care not for your karma and your mod points.
http://event.asus.com/2011/mb/AM3_PLUS_Ready/
Socket 478 means the old "Northwood" Pentium 4. A good CPU back when it was new, and if you happen to have matching motherboards, RAM and other things as well, it may be worthwhile to assemble the whole bunch into an "oldie" PC. ;-)
But I wouldn't bother buying any new boards for a P4, even if those were still available. Even a real cheap AMD for $40-$50 will clearly beat the P4 on performance, and modern DDR3 RAM is cheaper per GB than the DDR(1) RAM that was common in the Socket 478 age. Overall, going with modern parts will get you much better performance at marginally (if at all) higher costs
C - the footgun of programming languages
AMD has only been maintaining backwards compatibility so well since the AM2 socket. Then AM2+, then AM3, all backwards compatible. So, you can run an AM2+ chip in an AM2 socket, but it may not get all the features. Now we're getting AM3+, and it can support an AM3 chip, and an AM3+ chip can run in an AM3 socket, but without full feature support. It's AMD's 4th generation socket in this model, and somehow it's news now? I'd hardly call it a "shift".
Really? AM3 PLUS?
They couldn't think of anything with less potential for confusion?
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
Shouldn't it say "AMD Bulldozer will NOT bring a socket shift to PCs?"
A socket shift is when the newer generation is not compatible with the former, however in this case people can take a Bulldozer and just drop it into their AM3 socket and have fun. I don't see how that is a socket shift.
In 2004 I upgraded the PIII in my Compaq 1800T laptop from 800mhz to 1000mhz. Tada!
How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
... and this is why I always buy Asus. No release for my particular motherboard yet, but it looks like it's coming...
AM3 Phenom2's are (nearly) top-of-the-line systems today. We're talking 2-year-old drives max
Say I refrain from upgrading the drives on this CPU upgrade. For how many more CPU upgrades or how many more years do you think one can refrain from upgrading the drives? It's certainly not five cycles of biennial upgrades.
This rig I type from has an Asus M3A32-MVP Deluxe Wifi motherboard....
It also has a Radeon 6870, 4gb ddr2 1066 and a PhenomII 1075T hex core.
It didn't start out that way. I bought this motherboard in either November or December 2007, and it started out life with a Phenom 9500 and a Radeon 3870.
I upgraded it to a PhenomII 805 when I snagged one for $79, and much later a PhenomII 1075T.
The graphics card got an upgrade to the 4870 when it came out and most recently the 6870.
The ram started out as 4GB of DDR2 800 but I later upgraded it to 4GB of DDR2 1066 which I got for $35
The Corsair 520 watt power supply, Antec case, Seagate 750GB hdd, modified cooler master heatsink/fan, and heck even the OS install are all original to this computer with the motherboard.
For the last CPU upgrade I literally updated my bios, shut my computer down, popped the heatsink off, blew it out and cleaned the bottom, popped the old chip out, put the new chip in with a nice layer of ceramique, put my heatsink on, pushed my power button and I was done.
All my old CPU's, graphics cards, and ram ended upgrading computers of my friends and relatives.
Thank you AMD and Asus for putting so much support into your products, especially since I like having my full spec gaming computer without dishing out $1200 each year. The $200 investment in my motherboard has lasted me far longer than I would have imagined.
Everybody seems to be thinking about only upgrading the CPU but keeping the board. Today you find yourself more often in a situation the other way around. I recently bought myself a AMD3 Board with 16GB RAM and a Hexacore Processor. I've had my X2 5000+ for some years. I think I'd like to upgrade my board in two years to support more recent features, but my CPU will be plenty for years (even for gaming, the GPU usually gives you the ZANG!, my 5000+ was enough to play most games). So I will have the chance to buy modern boards still supporting my CPU and when I decide to change that, I can upgrade that .
Very nice.
Tell me Petey, does it hurt? Does it eat and your mind, knowing that on every single post I make I not only insult your idiocy but I give a link to a laundry list of your failures? Does it keep you up at night? Does it hurt? I find that....marvelous. Now enjoy some nice insults mixed with the broken glass that is reality, something you sadly can't seem to grasp. Now wallow in your failure monkey boy, and do the dance of humiliation!
And this coming from poor wittle APK, known script kiddie and troll, also know as "Petey, the idiot HOPES file guy"? As in you HOPES that one of the 300,000+ constantly changing array of websites that are infected doesn't happen to be the one you visit today? Or that you HOPES that nobody notices after repeatedly being asked you have FAILED to show even the tiniest shred of mathematical proof that your magical woobie can scale? That you HOPES nobody notices your only "proof" is anecdotes, often by your own sock puppets like Kingsjester and MEK_Lovebug?
If there is ANYONE that should be LOLing it is me, for pointing out there are still morons that believe 16Mb HOPES files can do anything but block ads since ad servers are...what do you call it...oh yeah STATIC, just like your HOPES file, but really you are just kinda pathetic. You're like the idiot that just keeps hanging onto that three years out of date copy of Norton, because he is just so damned sure it still works, only the Norton guy is actually better protected than you are, since it did used to work in the past 5 years.
So please, keep posting APK, I do so enjoy pointing out the total uber fail of your magical woobie so. I also personally consider it a public service to point people to solutions that actually work instead of relying on magical woobies and anecdotes. And of course bitch slapping your around is also quite fun!
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
XP is really horrible to activate these days. Last time it wouldn't activate until I downloaded SP3 and IE8 on another machine and installed them in safe mode so I could get past the Microsoft "you are a filthy pirate and not allowed on the net or even to activate by phone" crap and actually activate the thing. That was even with a fresh OEM version of XP with the new hardware for the cloned machine.
The "genuine advantage" is that many people would give up installing the legal copy of XP they have and go out and buy MS Windows7 - so only an advantage to Microsoft. When you've got nearly computer illiterate people that almost revolt when their icons are moved you can't give them MS Windows7 yet.
So they ARE "being dickish and burning customers over activations", especially since I had to get the above information on how to activate the software from third party sites.
"One of the most dreaded hurdles on the PC upgrade path is the CPU socket. If socket design changes then you'll almost certainly need a new motherboard when you do upgrade."
This is a complete red herring. I have been building my own PCs since 1997. I have not once, ever, been able to re-use a motherboard when upgrading. Yes, some of that is due to sockets changing, but not all of it. Sometimes you need a new board to support the newest memory technology, or to support the changed voltage requirements of the new chips. Bottom line is, unless you're an early-and-often adopter, buying new CPUs the day they're released (which historically has meant spending $900+), you just won't ever get two CPUs' worth of life out of one motherboard, regardless of whether the required socket has changed.
Well, the fact that the new processors will run on an AM3 board seems like more of the same from AMD, rather thank some kind of big "shift" like the title makes it sound. Rather its the same as before, AM3 processors tend to run just fine in AM2+ boards. In that case you sacrifice DDR3 and faster hyper-transport for DDR2.
Why would you do this? Well, two words, windows license. $100 for a new motherboard, and then anywhere from $100 to $300 for windows. Total upgrade cost $300->$600, vs $100-$200 for just the CPU.
I've done this a couple times, and it can be a nice upgrade, because I don't have to reinstall my applications and retweak windows to run fast. The 8-16 hours of install/tweak time It takes me to create a personal desktop is probably 99% of the reason I don't do a lot of upgrades that cannot be done in place.