Slashdot Mirror
Google Loses Autocomplete Defamation Case
superglaze writes "Google has been found liable in an Italian court for defamatory comments made against an anonymous plaintiff — the complainant's name, when googled, elicited autocomplete suggestions that translate as 'con man' and 'fraud.' Google was found not to qualify for EU 'safe harbour' protection because the autocomplete suggestions were deemed to be Google's own creation, and not something merely passing through its systems."
That's it. Clearly Italy has shown that it can't handle the Internet. Someone grab me a chainsaw, I'm cutting their fiberz.
Seriously, it is one of the things that makes me happy, I'm not important at all.
The Italians are really hammering google lately. At least they haven't found Larry Page in a pizza oven yet.
... foreign courts are being used for foreign nations to extort money from business they did not produce and had little connection to its success.
Google should stop providing links to Italian businesses.
Google defended themselves by saying that they shouldn't be held responsible for the output of an algorithm that they created. That's weak.
They should have said "Crap, we screwed up. We'll fix it right away." No judge or jury would think that Google did it on purpose. But with a response like this, they are sure to think that Google doesn't care.
Oh... Italian court judges.... Well you know what SPQR means - Sono Pazzi Questi Romani (These Romans are crazy)
It seems that 'con man' no longer auto completes for me. I guess I will have to go back to pressing that tiresome enter key.
on April 1 when they rushed to hire auto-trade-in deals^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcompleters.
Berlusconi?
If you would like to improve your Google search experience, we encourage you to write to your local member of parliament.
Berlusconi-esque
look sig is kool
Time to implement the streisand protocol.
Also, Google should be liable for defamation that occurs on its Blogger service. Don't be evil my ass.
I hope no translation is necessary... But I'm sure you can Google it.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
That's odd. I typed "Italy" into Google's search bar, and the only autocomplete suggestion it has is "Italy is full of douchebag assholes"
Perhaps the Italian Justice System should 'go stick its head in a pig'.
They can't win anywhere
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
Well what if searching for this his name on Google results in the top 10 hits being titled along the lines of "This dude is a con man and a fraud!!"? Is Google responsible for *that* algorithm? After all, the autocomplete algorithm is just another search algorithm, except instead of searching through pages it searches through past inputs.
the italian courts couldn't possible rule against google... unless... *types Berlusconi into google*... I see.
This is the same country that pressed charges against google execs because someone posted a video some kids picking on a mentally handicapped kid. Their outdated legal system may make it cheaper for google just to block the whole country at this point.
[Brian is writing graffiti on the palace wall. The Centurion catches him in the act]
Centurion: What's this, then? "Romanes eunt domus"? People called Romanes, they go, the house?
Brian: It says, "Romans go home. "
Centurion: No it doesn't ! What's the latin for "Roman"? Come on, come on !
Brian: Er, "Romanus" !
Centurion: Vocative plural of "Romanus" is?
Brian: Er, er, "Romani" !
Centurion: [Writes "Romani" over Brian's graffiti] "Eunt"? What is "eunt"? Conjugate the verb, "to go" !
Brian: Er, "Ire". Er, "eo", "is", "it", "imus", "itis", "eunt".
Centurion: So, "eunt" is...?
Brian: Third person plural present indicative, "they go".
Centurion: But, "Romans, go home" is an order. So you must use...?
[He twists Brian's ear]
Brian: Aaagh ! The imperative !
Centurion: Which is...?
Brian: Aaaagh ! Er, er, "i" !
Centurion: How many Romans?
Brian: Aaaaagh ! Plural, plural, er, "ite" !
Centurion: [Writes "ite"] "Domus"? Nominative? "Go home" is motion towards, isn't it?
Brian: Dative !
[the Centurion holds a sword to his throat]
Brian: Aaagh ! Not the dative, not the dative ! Er, er, accusative, "Domum" !
Centurion: But "Domus" takes the locative, which is...?
Brian: Er, "Domum" !
Centurion: [Writes "Domum"] Understand? Now, write it out a hundred times.
Brian: Yes sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar, sir.
Centurion: Hail Caesar ! And if it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.
Italian Justice == Oxymoron.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
They should have said "Crap, we screwed up. We'll fix it right away."
But it's impossible to fix. Software isn't cable of discerning "truth", so no algorithm can tell you if something is libel or not.
just sayin'...
FTA: "Google lost its bid to claim the protection of the E-Commerce Directive's safe harbour provisions, which partly shields hosting and ISPs from liability for content held on or transmitted over their systems."
Obviously the suggestions shown were generated by Google and transmitted over it's network, as opposed to indexed content not owned by Google. So know wonder Google lost, maybe the lawyer(s) should have argued that the content produced by the auto complete feature is solely based on data supplied by it's users and the internet, maybe the same way a newspaper generates headlines based on what sells!.
I really hate how society has evolved.
Everyone's a complete and utter pussy incapable of rolling with the punches.
Sometimes I just wish an asteroid would smash into the Earth and send us back to a simpler time.
^^vv<><>BA
How about google try to prove that the person is indeed a con man and fraud, probably peddling fake degrees. Show them the power of the internet!
I typed "anonymous" and the fifth suggestion was Sony. I suppose this is the one that translates to "fraud"?
4 We regret to inform you, that your Google search experience due to the actions of Carlo Piana and by order of the court of Milan. The auto complete function has been disabled for the residents of Italy, due to autocomplete results raising claims of defamation.
One reason you hire competent local counsel is to save yourself from doing something profoundly stupid when you lose a case in a foreign court.
The Italian judge, I suspect, would regard a stunt like this as profoundly disrespectful of Italian law and courts and quite good evidence for a charge of an on-going defamation with malice - an attempt to have your revenge on the plaintiff.
Nor would I expect a member of the Italian Parliament to be any more charitable.
It is useful to remember that Google is not as universally loved and trusted by others as it is loved and trusted by the geek.
It is not the fact they are simply repeating what other people searched, it is that they are presenting the info as if it was factual. There is a "suggestion" word, but it does not really say "other people searched for this". It may be a subttle difference , but it is one the Italian court ruled as they see fit.
Pull the fricking plug. No google for Italy.
If the case is Italian against foreign the outcome will always be in favour of the Italian. Its how Italian courts operate and this is not limited to business, for a country that makes much money from tourism the justice system is rather prejudiced against anything foreign.
Does anyone really like that auto complete?
It's about the most stupid thing ever!
Like a shining beacon they show the rest of the world just how destructive and arbitrary a bad justice system can be. Ditto for Brazil.
Was the "complainant's name" Berlusconi?
what is really important is what the search results returned. did the name in question (the client's name is redacted from everything) combined with fraud or con man return results about this man? if not, is it really libel? what if there is a person with the same name that IS a fraud and a con man? assuming you are the ONLY person with your name is arrogant.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Every up-voted comment here supports Google. After all, Google is just a dumb routine that is indexing information other people put out there on the internet. I think many of us recognize how difficult it would be to write a program smart enough to recognize and filter derogatory information; especially when the statements may be factual some of the time.
But I see the other side. First of all, because Google's results are generated by dumb scripts, the results can be gamed. And the other thing is that Google can promote obscure and dishonest postings to worldwide prominence. It's not as though they have no impact.
I'd like to have the option to turn autocomplete off. I've found that it often leeds to suggestions that are inappropriate for children.
... is the type of litigation culture that is flourishing in Italy/other EU countries. It only goes to show how disconnected current legislation is from modern technology.
"I'm taking this loop off." - Jack O'Neill
Italy can seize their E.U. assets rather easily. Google should simply appeal this to Europe wide courts that'll play more fair.
Google might discourage this particular assault by 'accidentally' leaking the anonymous plaintiff's identity, along with all the sites making the accusations against him. They'd need to make sure only American citizens located inside the U.S. are involved in the leak, i.e. no evidence for the Italian court, no disbarment for their lawyer, etc.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
...is that because of the defamation suit, and their unreasonable action against Google, I now know exactly who Alfio Bardolla is; that the Italian word "truffe/truffa" apparently means "scam;" and that the word is very often associated with one Alfio Bardolla on sites all over the internet.
In other words: I suggest that the Italian courts be tried for defamation, as their actions - intended or not - have led to the defamation of one Alfio Bardolla.
They could allege it was an automated task, and that they had no control over it, until they decided to manipulate it.
Now Google must be held responsible for the tool, as they clearly show they have control on its results.
This comment may contain speech figures. Reader discretion is advised.
of hot coffee on the lap, microwaving the pooch etc... I'm moving to Italy with a Vista powered lap-top - gonna claim a cool few million euros in extreme emotional trauma damages for every BSOD I encounter. Hang on; come to think of it, maybe I could claim attempted murder! Then there's the good old 'a fatal error has occurred' message... I'm in the money!!
The bottom line is that Google is interested in making money, like any other company. Sure, they could cut off Italy -- but that would also mean cutting off a source of ad revenue. I imagine that it would cost more money to Google (in the long run) to cut off Italy than it would to comply with the ruling. Should it come down it this, I would like to think Google would in fact cut off Italy. On the other hand, I don't think it makes practical business.
I thought this was slashdot, where Big Business intrusion into the workings of Government was frowned upon? Judging by the sentiment of the comments to this story, it seems perfectly acceptable for a (historically geek-friendly) company (of US (surprise!) origin) to interfere with the government of some (non-US! surprise again!) country.
Sorry guys, but SilentChasm is the victor IMO. Google has a history of tampering with this and seems to tailor search and alias to their own agenda. It's not transparent anymore. Google is a PUBLIC company now, floating, as in a mobile multinational vehicle of monarchy i.e - public limited company. Almost all shareholders have one thing in common, they vote for either of the two big parties....
So... *is* he a fraud? Or does that matter in Italy?
http://www.piana.eu/search/node/Carlo%20Piana%20is%20an%20asshole
I8-D
Simple solution which should prevent this happening in the future, is to disable autocomplete for Italian Google. They'll need to live without that feature, but what else can you do when the Italian courts keep slamming down like this?
was the 'anonymous complainant' Berlusconi, and if so, perhaps google were just being truthful?
I think it might be useful to look at the legal reasoning more closely .. It could be used against others
in other national courts and even become a standard..what actually is wrong with the legal reasoning..
what were the actual charges and what standard of law was used to measure culpability?
This case is more than the case of a light headed legal culture. its an outcome that every person hurt
(wrongfully or rightfully) by a statement, comment or image would like to see. But is the result
a correct one? First under Italian Civil Law, second under international law and thirdly under
Internet law. Then is the law correct in its assumptions?
Apparently no one thinks the algorithm output did not defame..
so the question seems to be in an allowable defense? is that how you see it?
The defense is I did not do it?
Just like World War II Italian tanks have one gear forward and 4 gears in reverse.
All cows eat grass!
So IF, and that's a huge if: IF Google is responsible for what auto-complete said about that man, doesn't that mean that they can avoid paying if they are able to prove that he really IS a fraud?
If Google can prove that he's a con man and that auto-complete is correct, then they don't owe him anything. . . This scam artist guy better be praying that the courts change their mind before it goes to the next step and he ends up with a multi-billion dollar international company trying to prove he's a fraud.