Steam Success Holding Up Half-Life Development?

donniebaseball23 writes "Steam is a huge success, and it's arguably the leading digital distribution platform for gamers on the PC. But has the growth of Steam's business led to a slowdown in Valve's own games development? Is the so-called 'Valve Time' actually a symptom of Steam's hogging Valve's resources? That's the argument that Stardock's Brad Wardell made this week. 'If you were to look at a timeline of games developed in-house by Valve – not developed externally and then acquired – and you look at before Steam and after Steam, it's definitely had an effect,' he said." It's probably also slowed by the imminent launch of Portal 2, which is due out next Tuesday in North America.

Comments

wat

[Anonymous Coward]

It took them 6 years to make Half Life 2. It took them ONE year to make left 4 dead 2.

Re:wat

[Psychotria]

It took them 6 years to make Half Life 2. It took them ONE year to make left 4 dead 2.

Yes, you're right. Remind me how long it took for HL2 Episode 3 to be released...

Re:wat

[Eraesr]

What did they release before Steam? No more than just Half-Life and a handful of bought-in mods, no? I don't think there's a real difference between pre-steam and post-steam output of Valve. If any, the output has increased with titles like HL2, Ep 1, Ep 2, L4D, L4D2, Portal, Portal 2, TF2 and the upcoming DOTA.

Re:wat

[Anonymous Coward]

I am still disappointed that they released l4d2 that quick. Franchise milking is reserved to Activision and EA.

Re:wat

[sortius_nod]

The key is that Valve have always focused on releasing quality products rather than masses of them.

Not every game company wants to be a cash grab house, sometimes they actually want to produce products that keep customers. I can't say that I've ever felt a Stardock game was of any quality, so maybe they're just cracking this shits that they can't churn out crap while trying to keep their horrible store online.

I don't think Gabe Newell is worried at all by these comments, they'll keep making money off other people's games to fund quality games of their own.

Re:wat

[Anonymous Coward]

Half Life 2 is still one of my favourite FPS'. I recently replayed it, and think think the atmosphere is tuned really well. I usually get bored by today's FPS' - even though they obviously look a lot better. I think the big outdoor environments where you could choose to just explore, or try different strategies in certain stages (I like to see how little ammo I can use to clear a level) add to the experience. Games like CoD that try to push you along all the time ("yeah, yeah, let's do it!!!! Go Go Go!!!!!") just get a bit wearing for me at least.

Re:wat

[anomaly256]

I agree. I did enjoy CoD4 but no where near as much as the HL2 series. And the 'always being pushed' thing did make me feel tired of the game frequently. I could only ever play CoD4 in small bursts.

Re:wat

[rasmusneckelmann]

Seen from a technical point of view, first person shooters are some of the easiest games to make, provided you're using an existant engine. The bulk of the man hours needed goes into making graphical content like textures, maps, models, and animations.

Provided your team got an efficient pipeline for producing art assets, stocked with skilled artists, there's really not that many things which can delay the project unexpectedly.

On the other hand, if the project involves building an entire engine from scratch (like in the case of Half Life 2) you got yourself an endless source of unexpected bugs and problems you'll need to deal with. It's much easier to predict how much work is needed to create a model of a zombie than to predict how long it will take to code a core component of a game engine.

Re:wat

[Xest]

It took them 10 years to make TF2 as well. This article is really quite especially retarded, Valve have long had a history of missing release dates by a matter of years well before Steam even came about.

Re:wat

[asdf7890]

It took them 6 years to make Half Life 2. It took them ONE year to make left 4 dead 2.

L4D2 is hardly the same level of work though. Designed primarily for co-op multiple player play with paper thin plot they didn't have to plan narrative elements of any complexity, the engine and was basically there already (as it was for L4D, but not HL2) as was the game framework on top of it. The amount of work needed on just EP3 is much higher then L4D2 - getting the story elements right will be a massive task compared to another chapter of zombie onslaught as there are many plot points to close (plus presumably a few to leave open enough for another sequel down the line), new ideas to develop for this instalment, all while staying tru to what has gone before and maintaining a quality that won't leve the long-time players feeling let down. If there are genuinely new things going on in EP3 then there may be much more significant engine and game framework tweaks than there could have been between L4D and L4D2. Considering how much extra work EP3 is compared to L4D2, you can see why HL2 was a ball-acher of a project relatively speaking: they were writing the core engine pretty much from scratch at that point, rather than making evolutionary changes, on top of developing the game around that engine.

Re:wat

[asdf7890]

And where HL2 does push (the helicopter chasing you through the storm drains for instance) it is well paced with frnetic runs broken by slower spots when you are progressing under cover. Pacing and encouraged (rather than forced) progression seems to be something Valve do particularly well - we'll find out next week if they have kept that nack in the development of Portal 2...

Re:wat

[PopeRatzo]

Half Life 2 is still one of my favourite FPS

Oh, it was brilliant. There was just never anything like it.

It always seemed like there was one really strong element of games before HL2. Either it was great storytelling or great atmosphere or great action or whatever, but HL2 put a lot of these elements together.

If it says "Half-Life", it's one of the few games I'll buy without reading a review.

Re:wat

[LastGunslinger]

Galactic Civ 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire are both Stardock, and they're solid games. I wouldn't put them in the same category at Valve's stuff, but there are worse companies out there. That said, I think Valve should keep doing what they're doing whether or not it causes a delay in the frequency of game releases.

Re:wat

[Dails]

For the most part it isn't up to the developers. The funding comes from a company that expects a product on a certain timeline. Valve has the advantage of being financially self-sufficient (in the beginning Gabe Newell was paying all of his programmers out of his own pocket - he was one of the original Microsoft Millionaires), so they don't have to answer to anyone but their customers. Valve is quite the anomaly among game developers.

Re:wat

[stealth_finger]

For the most part it isn't up to the developers. The funding comes from a company that expects a product on a certain timeline. Valve has the advantage of being financially self-sufficient ... so they don't have to answer to anyone but their customers. Valve is quite the anomaly among game developers.

Sounds alot like 3d Realms, let's hope Ep3 isn't the new DNF.

Re:wat

[stealth_finger]

I am still disappointed that they released l4d2 that quick. Franchise milking is reserved to Activision and EA.

at least they haven't announced 3...yet.

Re:wat

[parlancex]

That's because Left 4 Dead 2 barely qualifies as an expansion pack by almost any standard.

Re:wat

[SirMasterboy]

Portal 2 will probably be released tomorrow actually.

Re:wat

[elrous0]

Your post just made me shudder at the thought of a world with "Half-Life 2008," "Half-Life 2010," and "Half-Life 2011."

Re:wat

[elrous0]

Only to the faithful. If you don't receive a copy, it means you didn't truly give your heart to Valve.

Re:wat

[elrous0]

first person shooters are some of the easiest games to make, provided you're using an existant engine

That's sort of like saying "Great writing is easy. After all, you already have words and phrases."

Re:wat

[cHiphead]

L4D2 was essentially a mod to the original L4D, so of course it didn't take long. That and the storyline is half-assed. And there are few maps and all of the maps are strictly linear with minimal need for exploration.

Also, while I do agree to an extend with the premise of the article, Stardock is essentially direct competition to Steam/Valve, so take Brad Wardell's comments with a grain of salt. Not to say I don't like Stardock and didn't have a few minutes of game fever with Sins of a Solar Empire.

Re:wat

[RulerOf]

Your post just made me shudder at the thought of a world with "Half-Life 2008," "Half-Life 2010," and "Half-Life 2011."

But if it's a half-life, why do the numbers keep going up?

Re:wat

[Miseph]

Lest we forget, the L4D series has pretty much been the coolest tech demo ever.

The original was released largely as a way to test the AI Director tech, that improves replay value and difficulty curves.

The sequel was released largely as a way to test the dialog selection tech, that allows characters to hold conversations at appropriate times and with greater attention to what's going on around them.

Re:wat

[Plekto]

Actually, they released Half Life, Half Life Opposing Force, Blue Shift, and did a lot of work on Counterstrike and a few similar mods, as well as half of the groundwork for Half Life 2 All before Steam got into the content delivery business. They've always been incredibly busy. Given the vast, no, *huge* amount of time and work that went into Portal 2 (so much so that it makes Portal 1 look almost like a tech demo), they can be forgiven for not releasing things every six months to placate the ever shortening attention span of gamers here in the U.S.

Or would you rather compare Epic Games? Now that's some seriously slow work by comparison.

Re:wat

[anyGould]

first person shooters are some of the easiest games to make, provided you're using an existant engine

That's sort of like saying "Great writing is easy. After all, you already have words and phrases."

Which is technically true - you're not having to invent a language first.

Re:wat

[asdf7890]

Portal 2 will probably be released tomorrow actually.

Today's post on the official blog suggests it will be released on the 19th at 0700PST (so 1500 where I'm sat): http://www.thinkwithportals.com/blog.php?id=5297&p=1

You are not the first person I've seen suggest it will turn up this weekend instead so I'll be checking my Steam client daily (where the game sits pre-loaded ready for release day) to see if it does turn up early, but I'm guessing the official blog has a pretty good chance of being accurate.

Re:wat

[SirMasterboy]

Yeah, there is a good summary here with some useful links:

http://www.1up.com/news/portal-2-released-early

Re:wat

[bigstrat2003]

Galactic Civ 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire are both Stardock, and they're solid games. I wouldn't put them in the same category at Valve's stuff...

I would say they're much better than the majority of Valve's games (Portal excepted).

Re:wat

[halowolf]

I remember when Steam was in beta. They deployed Half Life and all of its expansions et all and I got to play them all for free. This was very fine as I had never got around to playing them before. Thats what won me over to Steam and I never even considered looking at another digital distribution system for games for PC and Mac.

They warned there might be a bunch of bugs et all, but they all played great with only a few minor problems that didn't affect me much.

Re:wat

[Rizimar]

L4D3? I don't know about you, but I'm anticipating Left Four Dead.

Re:wat

[Count Fenring]

Really?

I mean, cross-genre comparison isn't easy, but I'd say Half-Life 2 and its episode, Left4Dead1/2, and even TF2 (which I don't play myself) are of fairly uniform high quality, and that Stardock's games are, well, nice, but not irreplaceable. This isn't saying that either of those games is bad, just that I'd question whether your statement is an honest quality metric, or whether it's that you like strategy more than shooters.

Frankly, I think you can pick any of Valve's shooters, and it's a better and more important game within the FPS genre than Stardock's are within turn-based strategy. Valve is the best in their field - Stardock is very good, and fills a niche.

Re:wat

[Count Fenring]

Of course, when you're working with a 7 year old engine, modding it to do radically new things, while still not breaking compatibility with a generic modding API stretching across a whole bunch of still-popular games...

Also, since making the textures for an FPS is much more involved than making them for, say, a turn based strategy... Art, graphical (and audio) content, etc, etc, aren't some magic pixie-dust process you can abstract away. That shit also takes time, can also bog down, and is a huge part of the expense, time, and work of making any type of game. Artists aren't any more deterministic than programmers, particularly if you're holding yourself to high standards.

Re:wat

[thetoadwarrior]

Which they recycled a lot of. It's not they made yet another witch model all from scratch for LFD2. As far as balancing the game that is going to be much easier when you're coming hot off of the original and the sequel is more or less an expansion pack. Don't get me wrong. I love LFD2 and I'm glad I paid for it but the effort put into the second will almost certainly have been less than the first on every front.

Re:wat

[bigstrat2003]

See, the problem is, I think that Valve's shooters aren't good (for the most part). The Half-Life games are mechanically not that special, so that's not a good reason to play them. All they have is story - and the story is told with the most retarded storytelling mechanic I've ever seen, the silent-protagonist-no-cut-scenes paradigm. It's impossible to get into the story because they tell it so badly (Portal has the same issue, but Portal is about the mechanics, not the story, which is good because there's damn near zero story). TF2 is mechanically very good, and I respect the gameplay it offers. I also think it has the worst art style I've seen in pretty much any game, which would bother me enough that I don't have an interest in it. L4D/L4D2 are amazing games which I love, but they don't scratch my FPS urge in the same way SoaSE scratches my RTS urge.

I consider Valve a highly overrated developer, to be honest. They have made a couple of really good games, but mostly I see them as producing mediocrity.

Re:wat

[tnk1]

L4D3? I don't know about you, but I'm anticipating Left Four Dead.

That IS the next release. There is no way they could resist releasing a game with a title like that as soon as possible.

The only hold up is the marketing department trying to figure out how to explain the lack of a 3....

I understand that right now, the most popular idea is to release 3 as a re-branded Super Mario Brothers 3. They will call it Left for Dead 3 and then claim that Left Four Dead is the follow on to one of the most beloved games in all of video gaming. Additionally, Left Four Dead will also represent an incredible graphics and game engine upgrade from its predecessor, showing once and for all that Valve is dedicated to quality.

Win.

Re:wat

[UnknownSoldier]

> It took them 6 years to make Half Life 2.

"No one will remember if you ship a bad game on time.
No one will remember you were late if you ship a great game."

> It took them ONE year to make left 4 dead 2.

Technically it was Turtle Rock Studios who developed L4D. Valve bought them in 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_Rock_Studios

Re:wat

[Stalks]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion I guess.

My opinion is quite the opposite of yours however. I beleive the current mix of FPS available on consoles today (and lets face it, FPS's are made primarily for the console platform these days) have a weak/non-existent story and are all pretty much the same tossed up mechanic over and over.

The story-telling in both Portal and Half-Life II were top notch and not the over-used, action-cutscene-action-cutscene, you ARE the story, you are part of the cutscenes, instead of just sitting back and watching a rendered event, yawn.

I beleive there are many forms of FPS's, and Valve fills the fantasy/action/sci-fi arena very well, and is largely untouched. I see TF2 as a casual fun fps and would not fill the boots of, say, BF2142 for that FPS "urge".

Re:wat

[spire3661]

L4D2 was built upon L4D which was born from years of Valve AI bot research, HL2 was not built upon HL1.

Re:wat

[spire3661]

Overrated is not the right word to use when you personally dont like something. TF2 is an outstanding example of a dev house thinking out of the box and taking chances. That game is making more money NOW then it ever did in box sales. While it may not be your cup of tea, Valve is a shining light in a sea of wannabes and has beens. There really no other dev house that compares to Valve.

Re:wat

[spire3661]

The difference is Valve is swimming in Scrooge McDuck size pools of money. THe long and short of Ep3 is they dont HAVE to make it any time soon and they know it. They are going to stretch out that nugget for all its worth. I wouldnt be surprised if its a Playstation 4 launch title. ( if you havent heard, Portal 2 on PS3 gets the full Steamworks treatment incl. same day updates and free PC/Mac copy in your Steam account)

Re:wat

[bigstrat2003]

Sure it is. Since there's no objective measure for quality in this case, it's perfectly reasonable to use "overrated" to mean "I don't agree with the common assessment".

Re:wat

[X3J11]

Actually, they released Half Life, Half Life Opposing Force, Blue Shift, and did a lot of work on Counterstrike and a few similar mods, as well as half of the groundwork for Half Life 2 All before Steam got into the content delivery business.

OpFor and Blue Shift were developed by Gearbox Software, not Valve, as well as Counterstrike: Condition Zero and various Half-Life ports and some non-PC expansions. (see Gearbox)

(so much so that it makes Portal 1 look almost like a tech demo)

I'm also pretty sure I read somewhere that Portal essentially was a tech demo, although I cannot be sure of that (and couldn't find a citation in the limited time I devoted to searching for one before posting this).

Re:wat

[filthpickle]

Not so direct competition anymore. They sold impulse to Gamestop

Still...you have to take it with an even bigger grain of salt now....he has to make it out like you can't be a developer and a retailer at the same time.

Re:wat

[kcbnac]

Because its gained sentience, and is replicating.

Only one man can stop it - Gordan Freeman.

YOU are Gordon. SAVE THE WORLD!

Re:wat

[VGPowerlord]

I'm also pretty sure I read somewhere that Portal essentially was a tech demo, although I cannot be sure of that (and couldn't find a citation in the limited time I devoted to searching for one before posting this).

Narbacular Drop was a tech demo. Portal was a game created by the same dev team after Valve hired them using a lot of the same mechanics.

Re:wat

[VGPowerlord]

Which they recycled a lot of. It's not they made yet another witch model all from scratch for LFD2. As far as balancing the game that is going to be much easier when you're coming hot off of the original and the sequel is more or less an expansion pack. Don't get me wrong. I love LFD2 and I'm glad I paid for it but the effort put into the second will almost certainly have been less than the first on every front.

I haven't looked at Witch specifically, but I know for a fact a lot of the other zombies have newer models. Heck, the L4D2 Boomer comes in both male and female models, whereas there was only a male model in L4D.

Re:wat

[cforciea]

I pick either L4D and/or L4D2. They can't both be important. They came out a year apart from each other and are barely different games.

Re:wat

[cforciea]

TF2 is thinking outside the box? Really? You do see that little number sitting out there to the right of the "Team Fortress" part of the title, right? The one that indicates that it is a sequel to a game that had the same gameplay format and the same class list that it has? Or are you talking about copying the cash shop from every free to play MMO that's come out in the last decade? Is that what passes for taking a chance these days?

Re:wat

[spire3661]

the 2 in TF2 is more 2.0 then straight sequel. Its a modernized version of the classic. Starcraft II is basically the same thing. Taking the free to play model from MMOs and dropping it into an already established ( and retail) FPS is taking a chance I'd say. Please enlighten me on other BIG houses that have taken serious risks with their established properties.

Re:wat

[cforciea]

To add, Counterstrike and other mods were mostly Valve retroactively insofar as Valve hired the independent developers that created them after the mods were largely completed. Jess Cliffe and Minh Le did all of the heavy lifting for CS specifically before Valve employed them. I think it is a net positive for the industry probably that Steam picks up indie developers and gives them creative liberty like an EA or Activision never would, but for the purposes of what they released in-house before they produced Steam, most of what you listed does not count.

Re:wat

[cforciea]

The cash shop came out what, 3 years after release? Valve had already gotten all of the money the needed to get out of boxed copies to make the game a success. It isn't taking a chance when "failure" on your gamble amounts to a massively successful game.

Also, there was already a modernized version of the classic. It was called (wait for it) Team Fortress Classic. And that's a semantics game, anyway. Neither a sequel or a remake would have been risky.

What's sad is that I think there are some great examples of Valve taking more risks than publicly traded companies would in their position (I think the fact that they never went public with their stock is one of the biggest factors working in favor of the company). They aren't necessarily huge risks, but things like bringing the Narbacular Drop team in to make Portal were not nearly as boring and predictable as putting out yearly Half-life installments would have been. Team Fortress 2 just isn't a good example of what you are trying to give Valve credit for.

Re:wat

[LingNoi]

It took them that long to make the development tools AND half life 2. They didn't just make a game, they made a whole production line of development tools as well as a new game engine to go with it.

Left 4 dead 2 used the left for dead code base with some new features and maps.

Re:wat

[Count Fenring]

That's fair. I was actually kind of thinking of them as a unit, which isn't clear at all in my original post.

Re:wat

[Count Fenring]

This comes down to taste issues, but your criticisms of them aren't the majority opinion, and, frankly, I question your "mechanically not that special." Half-Life was a big deal for a reason, as was Half-Life 2, as was Portal, as was L4D.

Also, scratching an itch can be nice, but it hardly makes a case for genre exceptionalism.

Re:wat

[bigstrat2003]

What game mechanics did HL, HL2, or L4D bring that were novel and exciting? OK, HL2 had the gravity gun, but to call the game special over the gravity gun is pretty thin.

Re:wat

[Count Fenring]

So, here it is - you didn't enjoy it, so it's not novel, and doesn't count.

The Gravity Gun was, in fact, novel, and the mechanics around it were exciting to many people. Mechanics aren't everything, also - a lot of what drew people to Half Life 2 was the execution, and the focus on things like facial animation and life-like movement.

I'm also a little confused as to why someone claiming that "only brand new mechanics make a game worthwhile!" is so attached to Stardock. They thrive on presenting evolutionary advances to existing mechanics and play-styles.

Re:wat

[bigstrat2003]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You have a few misconceptions about what I'm actually saying. First off: I recognize that the gravity gun was quite novel. I'm saying that this mechanic, in itself, doesn't make the entire game noteworthy. It's a novel mechanic, but if your game is relying on mechanics to stand apart from the pack, it needs more than just that.

Second, I never claimed what you say I claimed. I do require something to set a game apart before I will recognize it as the cream of the crop, and game mechanics are but one possible way. Top-notch graphics are another (although they have to be truly excellent). Good story is another. The problem is that Valve games don't excel in any of these respects. They don't have great game mechanics to drive the game*, they have passable (but not great) graphics, and there isn't a Valve game in existence with a good story component. So what sets them apart? Nothing.

I like some Valve games quite a bit. But by and large, their games don't do anything to deserve the thundering praise they receive. If you believe the hype, nobody makes games nearly as good as Valve, and I stand by my opinion that they are a developer which thrives on "fun, but nothing special" games.

*Exceptions being TF2 and Portal. Portal has amazing game mechanics, which is what makes the game so special. TF2 also seems to be a damn good multiplayer game, even if I never will play it because I find the art style hideous.

Re:wat

[Firehed]

Isn't "fun" supposed to be the defining characteristic of a game? If I was interested in artistic merit, I'd go to a gallery or museum. At least for me, games are entirely about being enjoyable, and Valve's games very often excel at that.

Does that make it "special"? Apparently not, but that's also a remarkably vague and subjective term.

Re:wat

[Count Fenring]

Fair enough - the mechanics-uber-alles thing was misreading on my part.

In response to your actual issues with Valve, I'd like to point out that, when HL2 came out, the Source engine was impressive graphically, particularly in the its character models and their animation, and in how well it handled water. Keep in mind that HL2 came out in 2004 - yes, its competition is Far Cry, Doom3, and UT2004. Of those, only Far Cry can really claim "OMG PRETTIER!", and Far Cry required crazy-ass hardware to run. HL2 ran MUCH better than Doom3 on identical hardware, and it took about a year for the issues with Doom3's rendering engine to get patched, if I recall correctly.

Also, the sound, music, and voice work in Valve's games has been stellar since basically day one; Half-Life was noted for it, even if it has aged badly, and

On the story issue, the majority opinion is diametrically opposed to yours; most people who've played the games come away with the impression that Valve does story extremely well. I think the issue here is one of assuming that your preference is universal - I personally hate Charles Dickens, but I don't assume that it's because he was incompetent, or that there's no reason he's popular.

I'm curious, though - what would your examples of good story in FPS games be? Or good graphics (from the initial release period of HL2)?

Re:wat

[bigstrat2003]

I think the issue here is one of assuming that your preference is universal - I personally hate Charles Dickens, but I don't assume that it's because he was incompetent, or that there's no reason he's popular.

I'm not really assuming it's universal, I guess. I'm not bothering much to qualify my statements that they're my opinion, but then again, neither is anyone who disagrees with me. If the majority opinion can be stated as if it were fact, I feel that I can state my position as if it were fact too. It's just how discussions about art tend to be, in my experience.

I'm curious, though - what would your examples of good story in FPS games be? Or good graphics (from the initial release period of HL2)?

Far Cry for graphics (as you noted, they were exceptional... exceptionally demanding, too, but I feel that graphics need to stand out that much for a game to be noteworthy solely for them). Halo (the main series) for story, which I'm sure many would love to crucify me for, as the opinion of the average internet gamer seems to tend towards the opinion that Halo is unrefined swill for the masses. Still, in a genre that doesn't always have the greatest of stories, Halo has a story that really grabbed me, which had depth, right from the beginning. It presented one of the most compelling tales I've ever seen, and had some great characters. When a story has characters who are so good, I find myself unconsciously becoming truly concerned in their plights, I consider that top-notch story. Not many games have had a story which drew me in emotionally as well as presenting a situation where I was eager to learn what happened next at every turn. The Halo games are one of the few examples, and I give them high praise for that.

Re:wat

[Count Fenring]

Fair enough - I tend to be a little over-cautious with that, and try to heavily separate places where I'm talking about something I don't like that I think has demonstrated appeal/merit, and when I'm talking about something I think is bad or mediocre more or less non-subjectively. As an example, I'd say that Twilight sucks, but I'd say that "The Sun Also Rises" sucks in my opinion. Not that there's any moral imperative to do so, or that you're wrong for not doing so - I'm just explaining where I was coming from.

I'm not a hater on Halo's storyline, actually - I've got some issues with their environment design, and I don't think there's a lot of variation in the gameplay, but it's a compelling story. I also found HL2's story compelling, though - and I thought Alyx was incredibly well characterized, owing to the really amazing work put into her facial expressions, and excellent voice work by Merle Dandridge.

Re:wat

[cforciea]

"AI Director" is just a fancy way of saying "weighted random number generator". The whole damn thing is probably a couple of hundred lines of code if you exclude the map hints required to make it work. Yawn.

Re:wat

[Rizimar]

That is an awesome idea

Simple

[Stormwatch]

If you can make bucketloads of money with very little effort, why try to do something hard?

Re:Simple

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt running Steam is "very little effort". Sure to the usual idiot it may look like so, because they don't see or know what actually is required to be done behind the scenes.

I'm actually happy Valve is concentrating on Steam. Half-Life would be passing fun, while Steam provides me great service all the time (and has done so since 2004). From the games front, I actually like Portal more than HL. It's something different and fun. Half-Life is kind of seen already.

Re:Simple

[Stormwatch]

Steam? Sorry, I actually meant hats and crate keys.

Re:Simple

[Jafafa Hots]

I have to agree.
I had stopped buying games years ago. Not playing them entirely, but stopped buying them entirely.

Steam, despite the misgivings I shared with many others, has turned out to be a great service. I have now bought a metric shitload of games (by jumping on the sales, the $2.99 deals, etc.)

I'd sworn publishers would never get another cent of my money especially if there was DRM, but I have TONS of steam games because it's so easy, and CHEAP (provided you wait for sales... which, for top titles, can take a year or two. Year or two? Big deal. I'm middle aged now - two years is nothing. I've got t-shirts ten times that old.

Shit, a 2 year old game is "new" to me.

Re:Simple

[Pinky's Brain]

Steam has managed to find a sweet spot in pricing (although I only buy deals, for new games Steam is less interesting because of localization ... mainland Europe gets screwed hardcore) and the level of intrusiveness of DRM I can live with. The DA:O business for instance would not have happened with pure Steam DRM ... a game which has been activated can be played offline (you do not have to be online to enter offline mode, that's a myth ... try it out, just "pull the cable" and restart Steam).

Of course developers can use extra DRM beyond the Steam DRM, but I find it hard to blame Valve for that ... although I think they are almost at the point where they have enough leverage where they should just tell developers to knock it the hell off (it negatively impacts Valve image as well when a Steam game stops working).

Re:Simple

[Machtyn]

The best part about a 2 year old game is that if there is a tricky part you just can't get around, there have been enough creative people to show you exactly how to get around it - with video.

(A couple of my Portal videos on Youtube have gotten a few recent comments. I find that a little strange. Has there been a recent upsurge in advertising; or, perhaps, pre-orders for Portal 2 is coming with a license for Portal?)

Re:Simple

[Shikaku]

Hey guys, let's complain about free updates.

No seriously. Look at the very same game, Team Fortress 2, for the Xbox 360. It's abandoned now, no new maps or anything, just a few bug patches. It's dead.

If Valve did the same thing to the PC version, guess what people would have done? They would complain about lack of updates (like the 360 users did) and/or just abandon the game.

So in short, users are complaining about change. Different weapons (almost all of which suck in comparison to the stock), the hats (easy to patch out: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1683132), and more newbies.

There's no pleasing the "old" crowd, because "nostalgia" makes everything better. Nevermind the hatless patch and vanilla servers, and comp TF2 crowd only allowing stock weapons.

Also all the hats and crate keys are optional, and a money sink for Valve to earn money. You can ignore them, especially using the hatless patch.

Re:Simple

[geekoid]

Portal 2 is coming out, Valve is giving away Portal with pre-order, and they changed the ending to portal.

Re:Simple

[MrNemesis]

I picked up the orange box about a year ago (yup, just like the XKCD cartoon), played through portal a few times and loved it and have recently returned to it to try my hand at the challenges. A couple of those views may well be from me :)

Echoing the parent comment, the orange box I picked up for a fiver must have netted Vavle at least £100 by now, mostly on their awesome selection of indie games. First hit is almost free...!

Re:Simple

[Huckabees]

I'm not so sure I agree with this. Valve games have typically prospered extremely well on the PC with or without updates. The original Team Fortress was still being played by a good number of people right up to the release of Team Fortress 2. Counterstrike1.6 is still a popular game despite the success of Counterstrike: Source. Team Fortress 2 was a quality multiplayer experience and I would have expected it would have still had a strong playerbase to today - though the updates certainly don't hurt.

Re:Simple

[tnk1]

How could Steam really interfere with a going game project?

Sure, it requires resources, but presumably the games and Steam would have their own teams, and even their own revenue steam. Before Steam, Valve was able to make games without Steam revenue, so its not like they have to share resources.

With the engines of most of their games at a mature phase, the work on new games is likely to be gameplay, art and level design. All of those take a great deal of talent and effort, but they don't overlap much with the Steam distribution/DRM work. Its not like they can task their level designers to start working on Steam, and certainly not their artists. Even having their engine and network developers re-tasked to working on Steam is a stretch.

Steam may be a reason that Valve does not release *more games*, because attention and new budget allocations would be required to create or expand teams, to shepherd development, to obtain servers, and things like that. That's not the case here. If you have a pipeline for a game already set up, and you have started working on it, I don't see how another group is going to be able to slow you down.

Re:Simple

[Machtyn]

How recent is this change, is it a cut-scene change? I played it through last year when they announced Portal 2 and went for the eggs they left behind

Re:Simple

[acid06]

The "original Team Fortress" was a Quake/QuakeWorld mod and wasn't developed by Valve at all (although Valve did hire their creators).
You probably meant TFC, which is a Half-Life mod, but is not the "original TF". Both are still played today, even tough QWTF is from 1997. Pretty amazing.

Re:Simple

[Cyno01]

Development for TF2 hats probably comes from the marketing budget, seems like half the games released on steam (even non-valve ones) include TF2 promo items, and i'm sure theres a lot of people who preorder and even buy stuff just for TF2 items.

Re:Simple

[Cyno01]

Extra cut-scene, Chell gets dragged back into the building. The comic they just released the other day gives it from another perspective.

Re:Simple

[VGPowerlord]

The cutscene change happened at the same time they added the radio achievement, so chances are if you've played the game since Portal 2 was announced, you've seen it.

Al it is is a several second bit at the end where an off-screen bot starts dragging Chell back in (and says "Thank you for assuming the party escort position" or something like that).

Re:Simple

[Chelloveck]

Shit, a 2 year old game is "new" to me.

And unlikely to run on my 5 year old hardware, anyway. But I'm with you, I wait until games go on deep discount. I bought Bioshock 1 & 2 from Steam just a couple days ago for $5 each.

As usual, Randall Munroe said it best.

Re:Simple

[Jafafa Hots]

Yeah, I check this site:
http://www.steamgamesales.com/stores.php

Got the same kinds of deals you have. I don't think I've paid more than ten bucks for a game, and that's unusually high.

Cat's got my tongue

[Vitani]

No. Next question?

Nothing to do with Portal

[the_raptor]

The timelines for HL2: Episodes 1 and 2 slipped by more than a year each and that was before the main Valve dev team touched Portal (Portal was almost entirely done by the Narbucular drop team that Valve hired). The HL2 episodic content is one of the things that destroyed the idea of Episodic content for me. The whole point of it was to deliver content more frequently instead of a whole game every 2-3 years, but Valve can barely get out 1/3rd of an Episode every 2-3 years.

I suspect they are either suffering from Dukeitis (a condition where developers keep iterating because they need to live up to their previous smash success) or the major designers have their fingers in every pie instead of working one or two projects at a time and are slowing everything up.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[DrSpock11]

I think the real problem is money. Despite the critical praise of Half Life, it doesn't sell nearly as well as the other stuff Valve has gotten their hands into.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[Ganthor]

HL2 was fantastic and my wife endured a few weeks as a gaming widow while I played it through.

I got Ep 1 and was disappointed at how short it was. It was priced like a full length game. I felt burned and I lost interest before Ep2 got onto the shelves.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[RoFLKOPTr]

I think the real problem is money. Despite the critical praise of Half Life, it doesn't sell nearly as well as the other stuff Valve has gotten their hands into.

Says who? I submit that the Half-Life series is their most successful franchise. Portal is a part of that franchise, by the way.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[theantipop]

It was priced like a full length game.

I don't know where you live, but here in the US it was $30 compared to the normal $50.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[gman003]

The Episodes also destroyed the idea of episodic content for Valve. They said, when they first announced them, that the entire thing was an experiment. They've now said that "episodic content doesn't work for this type of game, we're scrapping the idea, episode 3 will basically be a full-length game".

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[Syberz]

To be fair, episodes 1 and 2 of Half-Life 2 were longer and better made than most of the crap that passes as a triple-A title these days. These episodes could have easily been full games on their own, so to me they don't really represent what episodic gaming is all about.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[slackbheep]

I assume you're both talking about The Orange Box set, and not the episode itself.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[Machtyn]

Considering it took them 6 years to release Half Life 2, having it take 2 years a piece for HL2:Ep1 and HL2:Ep2 does not seem like that big of a deal to me. They certainly left a huge cliff hanger for HL3... and we haven't even got any teasers (unless you call Portal a teaser, and the inclusion of Aperture Science in HL2:Ep2). It is getting a little long in the tooth for HL2:Ep3 to come out. I'm really going to have to replay HL2 and the episodes when Ep3 comes out (or, I guess, I could just read the wikia.)

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[Machtyn]

Yeah, I got the Orange Box set for $30. That included a heck ton of games including Ep 1 and Portal. It turned out Portal was as much a great game as Ep1 was. Plus the back catalog of games that came with it (HL1 and HL2, I believe).

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[JTsyo]

link?

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[theantipop]

Episode 1 was not originally sold in a box set. The Orange Box included Ep1, but I think the GP meant he bought it standalone when it was first released.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[VGPowerlord]

Orange Box comes with all 3 HL2 games, Portal, and Team Fortress 2 (which IMO is one of the best multiplayer FPS games of all time... at least the PC/Mac version is, despite all the flak Valve gets over the in-game store).

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[rahvin112]

L4D and L4D2 made more than half-life did even with the much longer sales time line for half life. You need to consider that L4D and L4D2 were smash hits on the console as well as PC selling over a million copies on EACH platform. L4D2 pre-orders exceeded any valve sales record in their history and has been in the top 10 sales on Steam for a year after launch. Half Life while a top PC game can't match the sales of a game offered on console as well as PC platforms where sales records are set on both platforms.

Roll in Portal bringing in nearly 40% female gamers and opening an entire marketing segment that Valve had never sold into and you get the picture on why Half Life was essentially abandoned in favor of the bigger money makers. Portal2 appears to be another smash hit based on the advertising campaign they are pushing on it. They've got a multi-million dollar campaign going on cable channels where if you watch TV for more than an hour on certain channels you will see a Portal2 commercial.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Half-Life but if you followed the launch numbers and listened to the developer commentary on some of the games (portal) you would know why they abandoned their previously most successful franchise. I've no doubt whatsoever that Valve will expand the Half-Life series at some point in the future, but it's going to take a while so they can push out the games that make more money. I'd actually expect L4D3 before we see another Half Life game.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[spire3661]

I mentioned this above, i wouldnt be surprised to see HL3 as a Playstation 4 launch title (given the Steam treatment coming to PS3 with Portal 2). To Valve HL3 is a huge poker chip and they are waiting on the right time to cash it in.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[elrous0]

As I understand it, Dukeitis is actually caused by a nasty virus that keeps wanting to add more and more new features to its host, forcing its cells to constantly spin their wheels in vain, getting no closer to final success.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[elrous0]

As a console gamer, I'd call The Orange Box the best gaming value I've ever seen. So I can't fault Valve for overpricing stuff on my end (PC fans may differ).

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

If the current timeline continues as it is, Duke Nukem Forever will come out before Episode 3.

Normally I wouldn't care about Half Life, but Ep2's introduction of the Borealis hit all the right buttons for me. Namely, the buttons that really liked Portal.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[MemoryDragon]

Well it also could be that Valve has a cash cow with its shop and no pressure anymore to deliver anything on time.
Depending on the company structure and how the management sees it.
Time pressure can be a huge incentive to bring something out.

Re:Nothing to do with Portal

[slackbheep]

For $30? Heh.

half life expansions not by valve

[petermgreen]

Valve made the original half life, half-life 2 and the episodes. But all the expansions to the original half life (opposing force, blue shift and decay) were made by gearbox software.

Re:half life expansions not by valve

[theantipop]

And while OpFor may still be the best FPS expansion ever, I seriously doubt Valve would give up control like that anymore.

Re:half life expansions not by valve

[kikito]

I didn't know about Decay. Thanks!

Re:half life expansions not by valve

[VGPowerlord]

I didn't know about Decay. Thanks!

Decay was PlayStation only (or PS2 only). Which is why most people have never heard of it.

Re:half life expansions not by valve

[petermgreen]

It was officially PS2 only but there is now an unofficial PC version.

it had unforeseen consequences

[gargamelo]

i dont buy any more from steam here in sweden, since steam forced me to buy in € , makes the games 20-30% cheaper to buy steam games on physical stores, which is ridiculous since online should cost less to deliver.

Re:it had unforeseen consequences

[Pinky's Brain]

The problem is that publishers have this fantasy market separation still in place between the UK and the rest of Europe ... which doesn't exist in the real market because the UK is in the EU common market, imports will force reality on prices in shops. They force Valve to keep the fantasy alive on steam though.

If developers could they would raise the prices in shops too, the EU common market benefits us in this regard.

Stupid?

[ilovegeorgebush]

Sounds stupid to me. A company of Valve's wealth and size could attract and support enough talent for doing both game dev and steam dev, surely?

Re:Stupid?

[jkmartin]

Activision and EA probably thought the same thing at one time...

Re:Stupid?

[Anonymous Coward]

Valve is owned by Valve employees. They do what they love doing, there are no external shareholders to force them work faster. Everything Valve does makes sense when you replace greed as primary motivator with desire to make great products.

The exact opposite to Valve would be Activision with it's leader Bob Kotick. You should read up on him.

"Kotick doesn't play his games, and it shows" - Ben Kuchera, Ars Technica

Re:Stupid?

[gman003]

The "division" of Valve responsible for Steam is about 5 people - a few programmers, an interface designer, and someone to add new games every so often. Compare that to the 15+ people still working on Team Fortress 2, or the huge number of people working on Portal 2.

No shit!

[mattbee]

Yawn, another fine morning at Valve! Shall we slog on with another episode of our popular game franchise for the fanboys, or shall we work a bit harder at our store front that takes 30% of EVERY PC GAME SALE ON THE PLANET? It's not quite that dramatic, but if >50% of PC games sales were downloads last year for the first time, Steam must be taking the lion's share. And last I looked they were only 150-odd employees - still quite impressive.

Re:No shit!

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Do you know if the ~150 employees just counts core developers, artists, etc. or does that include the receptionist and the guy who swaps drives on the steam servers and so on?

Unless large parts of the backend are outsourced(which wouldn't be a complete surprise, trying to beat one of the dedicated CDNs at delivering large files to customers all over the place isn't obviously a sensible move when they'd be happy to deliver them for you for a modest fee...) , I have to imagine that steam's physical infrastructure alone would consume a reasonable amount of time and attention, never mind the software development, or the work that goes into figuring out how to make the client hog more system resources.

Re:No shit!

[rahvin112]

Forbes profiles Gabe a few months ago. He's apparently a billionaire now. I believe he's the first game developer to achieve that level of income.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/0228/technology-gabe-newell-videogames-valve-online-mayhem.html

Re:No shit!

[MacTenchi]

He was already pretty rich when he left Microsoft and founded Valve with his own money.

Re:No shit!

[rahvin112]

Well according to his own words from the article he's pretty much at the point where money isn't even a concern because he has so much now. I remember reading something to the effect of Valve being able to run without profit for like 20 years. The best quote form the linked article is that Valve is more profitable per employee than even Google or MS.

Re:No shit!

[Rayonic]

Yawn, another fine morning at Valve! Shall we slog on with another episode of our popular game franchise for the fanboys, or shall we work a bit harder at our store front that takes 30% of EVERY PC GAME SALE ON THE PLANET?

I think they could hire more people and do both. I mean, I'm pretty sure the Half Life franchise is profitable in and of itself.

All this kinda reminds me of when the government does some trivial bullshit while some bigger problem is happening. People breathlessly complain about it, but I'm pretty sure the government can do more than one thing at a time.

Ohyes, this makes sense...

[anomnomnomymous]

This makes sense: All the leveldesigners, modelers, texture- and concept artists; They all work on Steam...

I assume that the sarcasm is noticed.

There's no need for Valve to work on Episode 3 in a hurry; Whenever it will be released, it will be sold by the millions.
And to be honest; I rather wait some more (actually, I'm not missing it), and get yet another awesome game, whereas I don't get the feeling that something is incomplete because of rushing it out for a certain date.

Other than that, I also have a theory in which I think that right now, they might be working on HL3, and just skip the whole Episode 3.
Then again, pure speculation of course.

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[Bogtha]

This makes sense: All the leveldesigners, modelers, texture- and concept artists; They all work on Steam...

Don't forget the programmers themselves. I'm sure Valve thought it made complete sense to take the developers working on a 3D game engine and put them to work on an Adobe AIR container for a lobotomised web browser. It's practically the same thing, right?

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[mariushm]

If they were to release HL2 - episode 3, it would have been released after Portal 2 anyway. I believe Portal 2 contains some references that will get the worlds of Portal and Half-Life 2 closer together - Portal 1 already had references about Black Mesa.

Also, from a marketing point of view, if you want to release a game, you want to release it just like big Hollywood movies are released - either when children come back from Summer holidays or towards the end of November - early December, when parents start buying Christmas gifts.

So I wouldn't be surprised to hear Half-Life 2 - Episode 3 is already done or in some beta stage and just waits for the right time to start advertising it.

Smart move from Valve imho would be to get around December both Episode 3 * and * some kind of updated Orange Box, containing the whole Half-Life 2 episodes and both Portals. It would be an excellent gift.

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[shirque]

If you thought Portal's fake ending in the incinerator was cool, wait till you escape the Aperture complex in Portal 2, only to find yourself right at the start of HL2:EP3 ...

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[chemicaldave]

Considering Episode 3 is the final installment of the story arc, I'm fine with waiting... as long as we get some feedback. I sincerely hope they do not stop making Half-Life games. It's very disappointing when someone owns the IP rights to a franchise but does nothing with it, or worse, doesn't treat it with the respect their fans desire.

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[internerdj]

You say it as a joke but plenty of companies do that. Here programmer fix this; there can't be that much difference between GUI design and embedded systems or you would need a different degree to do one or the other.

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[ThatMegathronDude]

Gordon Freeman is Chell?

Gordon Freeman is the co-op bots wearing a man-suit?

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[shoptroll]

The PC Games Industry Alliance was crowing about wanting to have a PC presence at E3 this year. Possibly including a keynote or something. If there's a near complete build of Episode 3 / Source 2 waiting in the wings that seems like a fine time to demonstrate it.

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[ifrag]

Wasn't there also a reference to Aperture Science in HL2? Something to do with a boat disappearing I think... Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

If they do add it in that would be totally awesome to have HL3 w/portal gun. The mod to make the portal gun appear in HL2 was nice but the environments for HL2 were not built around the "go anywhere" mechanic so you could get in some really odd places where the world is not actually constructed from certain angles.

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[daid303]

Funny, as I have an degree in embedded systems.

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[FSWKU]

Other than that, I also have a theory in which I think that right now, they might be working on HL3, and just skip the whole Episode 3.
Then again, pure speculation of course.

I remember hearing a while back that Valve was referring to Episodes 1-3 as "Half-Life 3" internally. But wouldnt HL3 be 1.5-Life (or 1/8-Life)?

*goes back to the cave*

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[damiangerous]

Yes, in Episode 2 there was mention of the Aperture Science icebreaker Borealis going missing.

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[k_187]

Yeah, I believe Valve said that story wise, Half-Life would be in the same place after Episode 3 as it would be if they had just made a Half-Life 3.

Re:Ohyes, this makes sense...

[gangien]

And if you're a true software engineer, you should be able to do both.

Basically Nonsense

[Hach-Que]

It's been previously said by Valve that they only actually have about 9 - 10 people working on Steam at any given time (no I do not have a citation for that either, it was quite a while ago by my memory).

So basically, the idea that Steam has been holding Valve up in producing games is total crap.

Re:Basically Nonsense

[delinear]

Well, from one perspective it's possible that having an almost guaranteed source of income takes off the usual pressure to rush a game out the door. Looking at it that way, perhaps Steam does delay releases, but if it means a more polished product that's hardly a bad thing (we hear enough complaints about poorly designed/developed/scripted games being rushed to market).

Episode 3

[Hamsterdan]

Will it be released before, or after Duke Nukem ...

Re:Episode 3

[lennier1]

Depends on how many additional rounds of Release Date Shuffle we're facing.

Valve is dying?

[thetagger]

Valve has been releasing one awesome game after another for the last 12 years. Clearly something is wrong! Valve get your act together!

My guess is..

[valentingalea]

They are working on a totally new version of the Source engine - that's why it is taking so long..

Re:My guess is..

[Dexy]

Thanks, Captain Insightful

Re:My guess is..

[valentingalea]

Well, current Source engine is very modular and has seen lots of incremental improvements, see TF2, L4D2, Portal 2 - one would guess HL-EP3 or even HL3 would follow the same - but the new HL's are taking way to much long for that :) maybe they ditch it all and started a new..
Or maybe not and Valve just hasn't enough valuable guys to go around and they all scattered around for the current projects - and the Half-Life 3 team is left with just the concept guy filling sketchbook after sketchbook:)

Say What?

[Majikk]

Here is the list of games published by Valve, according to Wikipedia. I have checked each description to make sure everything was done by whom I thought it was done by. Note that Steam gets released in 2002:

1998 Half-Life
1999 Team Fortress Classic
1999 Half-Life: Opposing Force (Not valve!)
2000 Deathmatch Classic
2000 Ricochet
2000 Counter-Strike (Not valve!)
2001 Half-Life: Blue Shift (Not valve!)
2002 Steam
2003 Day of Defeat (Not Valve)
2004 Counter-Strike: Condition Zero (Not Valve)
2004 Counter-Strike: Source
2004 Half-Life 2
2004 Half-Life 2:Deathmatch
2005 Half-Life Deathmatch: Source
2005 Day of Defeat: Source
2005 Half-Life 2: Lost Coast
2006 Half-Life 2: Episode One
2007 Half-Life 2: Episode Two
2007 Portal
2007 Team Fortress 2
2008 Left 4 Dead
2009 Left 4 Dead 2
2010 Alien Swarm
2011 Portal 2 (Coming out Tuesday)
2011 Dota 2 (Not yet released)

First of all, how the hell could you possibly know that game development has changed in any meaningful way since the introduction of Steam? The only thing Valve had really released was Half Life. Everything else was just a mod or a third party expansion they had nothing to do with. Secondly, if anything more games have come from Valve since Steam. They haven't pushed out Half Life 3 yet, but it would be hard to claim some logistical problem when they have released Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2 and Portal.

Please remember that Brad Wardell is a business man, and he just sold his own game distribution network to Gamestop. His next action was to badmouth his (former) competition for continuing to be in the business he just got out of. Stay classy.

Re:Say What?

[shoptroll]

Don't forget they were producing Arkane's The Crossing which ended up being cancelled back in 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crossing_(video_game)

Re:Say What?

[Jainith]

Anyone else remember the Half-Life 1 demo...which had a bunch unique content...including alot of cool scripted scenes.

It had great "Atmosphere" alot like "Opposing Forces".

Re:Say What?

[ljrittle]

I agree. Any claim that Valve has slowed down game releases is crazy. Brad Wardell has jumped the shark. -Loren

Re:Say What?

[VGPowerlord]

But when you look at the games they *actually* developed the list shrinks
[snip]
So the actual games valve made (not the remakes / glorified mods) they really haven't done much since steam went out. However steam did give them a lot of money to buy other studios / absorb other teams so you could argue it either way

You are aware that the "number of developers" and "number of employees" statistics being thrown around include these developers? It's also important to note that Valve is paying for the development of these titles.

Besides which, several of these games didn't even start development until after their teams were part of Valve. Portal and Team Fortress 2*, to name two.

You'd have been better off mentioning Counter-Strike and Counter-Strike: Source, as the latter is just a remake of the former, not an entirely new game like the two examples I listed.

* Left 4 Dead 2 isn't on this list because it started out as an expansion to the original game that got turned into a standalone product... hence, it's not really an original creation.

Re:Say What?

[filthpickle]

And it had left handed models....which I loved. I've never been as good with the kar as I was in pre-source DOD. Ofc, I don't play 5-10 hours a day anymore either.

Blizzard?

[grizzifus]

Blizzard and Valve both make great games, and take many years to do it. Steam is of little relevence to this.

Re:Blizzard?

[anyGould]

Blizzard and Valve both make great games, and take many years to do it. Steam is of little relevence to this.

Well, I'd say Steam is the steady income that prevents Valve from having to rush half-finished product out the door.

Does it slow down release dates? Maaybe. Is it preventing crap games? Almost definitely.

More Likely Explanation: Consoles

[EXTomar]

Instead of blaming Steam, a more likely explanation on why the next set of games is taking longer is that Valve is embracing cross platform development including the trickier console platforms. I am not suggesting "Consoles are bad!" but that cross platform systems are inherently more complex and take more time and money to do.

Re:More Likely Explanation: Consoles

[filthpickle]

but consoles are bad...at least, they dumb games down. No point in dragging that tired, old, dead horse out again though.

But....if portal2 feels like it isn't as good as it could have been because they dumbed it down for the console port. I am taking a hostage.

Yup. All the level designers are working on Steam

[6350']

Brad Wardell, as always, is full of shit. The vast majority of Valve developers do not work on Steam. If I understand it correctly, the Steam team is actually rather small, given it's impact. And please, Brad is telling us that a crew of, say, designers and level designers has not been working on HL2 dlc because ... they are working on Steam?! Yeah. Sure. Those poly-pushing level monkies are all hard at work coding up Steam transaction backend software.

Re:You buried the lead...

[Daetrin]

Actually, the current somewhat substantiated rumor is that Portal 2 will be released early on friday.

XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandatory

Re:XKCD

[The Grim Reefer2]

Sadly I had to look up what "the cake is a lie" bit because I too generally wait for games to drop to around $20, or even end up in the $9.99 section w/ a cardboard sleeve.

Re:XKCD

[filthpickle]

Portal is $9.99. The Orange box is $19.99 and comes with portal.

It's a shame...I had a free copy of portal that I got when I pre-ordered Portal 2 that I was literally looking for someone to give it to....everyone in my list already had it. Last week I gifted it to someone I work with that will probably never play it. Buy it whenever the price is right for you...but make sure you play it...portal is a fantastic game, with (and this is just my opinion) one of the funniest/most satisfying endings of any game ever. (storywise...the actual fight was a little easy)

It will probably end up at $4.99 in a few months. I'm sure it will go on sale at the end of the year when they do those crazy sales and I buy so many games that I know I will never play.

Re:XKCD

[VGPowerlord]

Orange Box is $19.99? This must be a recent change, it was $30 the last time I checked a few weeks ago.

Hmm... it sounds like this change was on April 6th.

That also explains why Garry's Mod + TF2 went down in price.

I Pity The Fool

[Flipstylee]

...who attempts to shit on valve/steam for any reason, if it takes em a little longer (it hasn't, see previous posts) then you can go play a quality game like dragon age while you wait for them... oh wait nvm....

Re:You buried the lead...

[ThatMegathronDude]

I have it preloaded but I will be heading for a camping trip on Friday. If that's right, I'll probably just stay home. Who needs friends when you have Valve games?

Hmm....

[SoCalledNotion]

Does anyone else find it strange that some guy from Stardock is speculating about how Valve runs their buisness, based off how Stardock ran theirs? This article would be more relevant if they actually had some facts from the horse's mouth (Valve) rather than some guy at a competing company blowing smoke.

Stones and Glass Houses

[shoptroll]

Someone reeks of sour grapes and lame duck.

Last time I checked, Valve hasn't rushed a game out the door and had to do the walk of shame once everyone realized the sad shape the game was in.

Valve is one of those few developers who are in a position to say "When it's done" and take the time to polish/complete the game to the quality standards they set for themselves... and gamers expect. If there's a reason for Ep3/HL3's delay it's because they've been busy with improving the Source engine (or building a new one?), L4D, L4D2 (Brad conveniently disregards L4D2 was 100% Valve), Portal 2, and oh yes, continuing support for TF2.

He also conveniently left out the fact that while they did acquire Turtle Rock (and later let them leave) and a couple of student teams from Digipen, there was still level of involvement from people already at Valve. In particular, Chet and Erik were writing for the Half-Life episodes and were moved onto the L4D and Portal projects.

Re:lame

[bertoelcon]

Personally I just think Valve doesn't want to release any games with 3 in the title.

Re:Here, I de-duped that for you

[VGPowerlord]

When The Orange Box came out, the games in it used 3 different versions of the engine. Half-Life 2 used the original, Half-Life 2: Episode 1 used the Episode 1 version, while Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, and Team Fortress 2 used the Episode 2/OrangeBox 2007 version.

As it stands, as of the Mac update, the single player games in Orange Box use the OrangeBox 2007 engine, but TF2 (and other multiplayer Source games) use the OrangeBox 2009 engine.

Re:You buried the lead...

[VGPowerlord]

I have it preloaded but I will be heading for a camping trip on Friday. If that's right, I'll probably just stay home. Who needs friends when you have Valve games?

Well, the reference in the decoded message that started this rumor said somthing like
04-19-2011_7AM = 04-15-2011_9AM

Portal 2's official launch date/time is April 19, 2011 7am PDT, so... that would put the early release date at 9am PDT Friday. Thus, you can likely find out before camping time on Friday (9am PDT/noon EDT/4pm UTC).

Or were you being sarcastic? :D

P.S. I have 31 out of the (at last check) 34 known potatoes on my Steam profile. I have to get all remaining known ones before tomorrow morning. :O

no

[geekoid]

If A happens and B happens it does not mean A caused B.

I would suspect people are bored with half-life and out enjoying new things.

I blame the hats. Too many hats. stupid hats. That reminds, I need to play tf2 again tonight and see if I can get a new hat.

Just so you know...

[brit74]

Brad Wardell has had a huge chip on his shoulder about Steam for a long time. He never seemed to miss a chance to criticize it, and seemed on his blog to continually stress out about Steam and his own competing product, Impulse (which was recently sold to GameStop). So, yeah, Brad Wardell is a little bit biased on this issue. Based on his longstanding battle against them, I have a hard time believing that he's going to give an objective assessment of Steam, even after he sold-off Impulse.

Re:Just so you know...

[Jaqenn]

Businessman claims, "My competitors should stop kicking my trash and go do something else."

Film at 11.

Valve can't win either way

[thetoadwarrior]

People would bitch if they milked their titles. They put great care into them and release them when they're happy with them and people moan they take too long. Some people claim Steam is damaging PC gaming by making it Valve centric. Valve puts more effort into Steam and doesn't actually publish a lot of content to draw attention away from 3rd parties and people moan they put too much time into Steam.

They should keep up with what they're doing. The fact people can't wait shows they're doing a fabulous job which they probably wouldn't do if they rushed their games.

Re:You buried the lead...

[Coren22]

Portal 2 shows a release date of April 19th on my Steam account as of last night. I am in the US.

Re:Valve Time? Take it, Please.

[irreverentdiscourse]

Some people will just never be happy.

Re:You buried the lead...

[Daetrin]

Did you actually read the article i linked? Oh wait, this is slashdot, why am i even asking? =P

Bubble boy

[HalAtWork]

Sometimes developers live in a bubble so long that they really have no way of comparing what they just did to what everyone else is doing, there's just a huge built-in bias. Brad Wardell seems pretty level-headed (then again, he did switch his games to DRM after denouncing its use for many years), maybe he just believes way too much in what he was working on. Maybe it's stupidity, not malice, but either way you're right in that his statements should be taken with a grain of salt.

Yes, i agree.

[Nyder]

I remember Valve saying that they were doing Episodes for Half-life 2, which means they can pump out games faster. We got an episode 1, and an episode 2 decently fast, then nothing.

and nothing

and still waiting

and nothing

no hints

nothing.

Still waiting though

for nothing?

Re:Valve time == testing takes time

[elrous0]

It's hard to find anyone willing to sign the Waiver for Physical Harm, Death, and/or Dismemberment.

This is what some people really believe

[ElusiveJoe]

But Steam is not DRM!

Newell Distortion Field, maybe?

So much for episodic content speeding releases

[lullabud]

I remember when HL2:E1 was released one of the reasons they said they were moving to episodic content was to speed up releases. Clearly that is not the case.

Re:Guess Valve development...

[furgle]

YEEEEEAAAAAAAHH!

Re:You buried the lead...

[atomic-penguin]

Countdown to Portal?

for linux

[nerform]

cm'on Valve give us what we want! Steam for Linux!