Nintendo Announces Wii Successor for 2012

motang writes "Nintendo has officially announced the successor to the Wii. At its investors meeting, Nintendo said they have decided to launch the successor to the Wii in 2012 after the fiscal year, and will show it off and have a playable version at this year's E3."

Comments

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[PitaBred]

If this will play all the old Wii games and output in 1080p, they've got one sold to me already. The Wii is tons of fun, but the low-res graphics get a little obnoxious on a huge-screen TV.

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[mistiry]

They'll have me sold too.

I got me a 55" HDTV, an Xbox 360, and a black Wii.

The Wii's output looks like SHIT.

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[0100010001010011]

Build yourself a FAST gaming machine and run Dolphin on it. It's one of the selling points is that will output at 1080p. Only downside is the beefy hardware requirements.

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[x*yy*x]

The other stupid thing about current Wii games is that they don't all support Motion Plus. I really hope the standard Wii2 controller will be as accurate as the old one with motion plus. It makes a big difference.

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[Millennium]

Marginally sharper pictures do not improve games.

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[Krakadoom]

Outputting crappy graphics in higher res will make no difference whatsoever - it can't very well output what the game wasn't designed to do. Unless we're talking some nifty post processing stuff (high AA at least), but that seems doubtful.

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[geminidomino]

No, but good games that give you a headache are just as unplayable as bad games (I'm thinking LoZ:TP as my anecdotal example here).

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[Anonymous Coward]

Dolphin (a Wii/GCN emulator) already does this. The Super Mario Galaxy screens I've seen at HD res are really quite nice..

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[h4rr4r]

How does it give you a headache?

I play Atari on my HDTV.

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[Anonymous Coward]

Headaches? Really? Do you get headaches watching Youtube videos that are at half the Wii's output resolution, too? Or are you being melodramatic?

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[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I apologize if this is a dumb question, but did you get the component display cable for the Wii? Playing the Wii on my 46" drove me nuts until I sprung for that connection.

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[Anonymous Coward]

Works fine in Dolphin; Sonic Colours or Mario Galaxy in 1080p with AA.

Games like that, tending to use block colours actually work really well at the higher resolutions, it doesn't seem to screw them up at all like it did with PS1/PS2 games. Which is actually a bit surprising, given that the hardware shares (as I understand it) Video and System memory.

Assuming the new console is actually backwards compatible, upscaling probably is on the cards. That would give the new console a back-library of games that none of the current gen consoles can match, given that the PS3 and 360 no longer offer backwards compatibility with even the last generation, and the PS4's unlikely to use the Cell again (IBM have stopped developing it).

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[geminidomino]

I've never tried that. And a lot of times, it's not a problem, but Twilight Princess was particularly bad for me in that regard. I did say it was anecdotal, though. I don't know why I got the headache, but inside of two hours, jackhammer time.

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[omnichad]

If it plays all the old Wii games and outputs in 480p over HDMI, I'll still buy. Low-res graphics are tolerable to me, but a fuzzy picture and unsaturated colors are pretty obnoxious. I just want my 480p to be clearer and more vibrant.

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[geminidomino]

No. When I first got the Wii, I had a regular old TV. By the time I went HD later, I'd lost my interest in the system. I just went back to finally play through Zelda to kill a holiday weekend.

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[DarkOx]

Outputting crappy graphics in higher res will make no difference whatsoever

That is not quite true. When you send a 480p signal (say from the Wii component out) to your 1080p television it scales up each final frame. That is to say its stretching the entire image.

If you increase the resolution on the back side (depending on how the libraries work, I have not seen Nintendo's SDK) you can get better results. Objects will still have the same amount of definition, but planes will be larger. So if you have say a brick wall in your game, (a simple polygon) with a brick texture applied the brick texture will get tiled on the planes more times, so you get smaller bricks, rather than the same number of muddy looking anti-aliased and stretched bricks, you get when the TV does the scaling..

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[timeOday]

Marginally sharper pictures do not improve games.

I'm getting tired of the meme that graphics are good enough and don't matter any more. My favorite game is Forza 3, and it would DEFINITELY be better at 1080p with a solid 60 fps (rather than the current un-aliased 720 with noticeable stuttering, and cardboard cutout pit crews). I cannot see how that could not be considered an improvement.

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[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Ah, well if you decide to get back into it, keep those cables in mind. The problem isn't that the Wii's output sucks, the problem is that modern HDTV's interpret the signal lousily. It's something I will never understand.

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[petermgreen]

Outputting crappy graphics in higher res will make no difference whatsoever

For 2D games i'd agree with you.

For 3D games however while you can't render what isn't there rendering in a higher resolution will mean less information is lost in the rendering stage. This means that on a large screen what is supposed to be a straight edge between two objects will actually look like a straight edge and not a blurry/blocky mess.

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[PitaBred]

The component cables help a TON with the Wii on a digital TV, but it's still not great or high-def, but the picture is much clearer. If you don't have component cables, you'll thank me when you get some.

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[Anonymous Coward]

the texture coordinates will stay the same, so if a brick texture is wrapped twice in SD then it will still be twice in HD. Just it will fill more physical pixels.

What will benefit will be the rending of the geometry (triangles) as these will have sharper (less blocky) edges. Colour gradients may also look better unless they are done in a texture. Translucent textures may look dodgy if they have a keyed out parts.

Doing the scaling on rasterisation will increase the clarity of old SD games, as opposed to doing it on the framebuffer/letting the TV do it.

But video content now has the potential to be HD and not SD.

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[PitaBred]

Sure they do, if the game is already good in the first place. If I have to choose graphics or gameplay, I'll choose gameplay any day. But I'd ideally like to have both.

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[DeadCatX2]

Yanno, emulators are okay once a system has been abandoned...but the Wii is still selling in retail. Emulating retail systems is piracy. Only very rare DVD drives can even read Wii games, so you're all but required to download from warez sites.

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[vlm]

If this will play all the old Wii games and output in 1080p, they've got one sold to me already. The Wii is tons of fun, but the low-res graphics get a little obnoxious on a huge-screen TV.

I wonder about the opposite direction... I hope they continue to have a composite output.

I don't watch TV very much, and what little I watch would not benefit from HD, so I don't have a HDTV. I have 4800x1200 on my desktop, triple 19 inch LCDs, maybe one of those would have an input compatible with the new wii's outputs...

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[PitaBred]

Get the component cables. I had the same complaints until I got them. And make sure you switch the option in the menu after you do so.

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[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, we should just go back to making all games in 320x200 with 16 colours because graphics don't matter at all. Portal 2 would be fucking awesome like that.

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[h4rr4r]

Emulating is not piracy in any shape or form.
Emulating a machine is just emulating a machine.
You do not use a rare DVD drive to get the wii games, you use a wii to rip them to your emulation machine.

No piracy required. Furthermore piracy is theft on the high sea, this would at worst encourage a little copyright violation. Which it does not either, since you buy the games and a wii, and use the wii to make the copy needed to play on the emulator.

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[Anonymous Coward]

With the new standard controllers having the Motion Plus integrated, I can only imagine in the future it will become the norm for all games to support it.

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[VVrath]

Nonsense - you can hack the Wii to allow you to play games from a USB HDD (works brilliantly if you have small kids - no discs to get lost / smeared with little fingerprints). You use a utility to read the discs on the Wii and it saves image files to the HDD.

Playing the image files on an emulator would be a pretty small step from there, and no piracy required.

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[omnichad]

I have them. Got some great quality ones shipped for under $10 on Monoprice, and I've recommended them to everyone just to make the Wii tolerable on a flat screen. I'm just a little more a perfectionist than that. You still get dot crawl and muddy colors with component.

That's aside from the fact that my A/V receiver is HDMI-based and I would love to have everything hooked up to the same place.

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[omnichad]

My TV may not have the best analog to digital conversion circuit to drive the screen and maybe others filter the noise better. But I'd rather buy a new Wii than a new TV.

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[MightyYar]

Emulating retail systems is piracy.

Nonsense. Buy the software and Nintendo is making out better than if you went out and bought a subsidized Wii.

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[DeadCatX2]

Yeah, because someone who hacks their Wii to load games from a hard drive is going to load it only with games they actually own. Right. uh-huh. You might, but that would make you the exception.

I consider it legitimate to download a game that you own. I even consider it legitimate to download the game you own *for a different region*, as I think region-shifting should be as legitimate as format-shifting. But emulating a retail system? That's piracy, whether you own the game or not.

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[space_jake]

Nintendo doesn't sell their systems at a loss like their competitors.

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[ThatMegathronDude]

Everyone that owns a penis must just rape everyone he sees, right? Who have you raped today?

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[Anonymous Coward]

emulators are okay once a system has been abandoned...but the Wii is still selling in retail. Emulating retail systems is piracy.

Err, copyright is perpetual, it is illegal to download anything made after 1930.

Only very rare DVD drives can even read Wii games, so you're all but required to download from warez sites.

If you already have a Wii, you can just install a hack on it and use the Wii to rip the game. That ISN'T (technically) illegal by the way, since you own the game and are ripping from an owned copy (DMCA will still kick you in the ass for "circumventing an [in]effective protection" though).

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[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

I emulate the NES on my Android phone, is that piracy? I emulate the Gamecube on the Wii, is that piracy? Just because you cannot conceive of a use for emulating a "retail" system on a next-gen console, don't lump those of us with better imaginations in as copyright infringers.

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[kevinmenzel]

Does the 360 not offer backwards compatibility? I know they stopped adding to the backwards compatibility, but as it was entirely software from the get go, and I'm pretty sure the XBOX Originals avaliable on Marketplace use the same software, shouldn't it still work on the slim? I got my second 360 right before the slim came out, and my XBOX original games still work on it... (I mean, I only have like - Halo and Halo 2, but still...) Yes, obviously, the XBOX Live side of things doesn't work on those games... but local multiplayer and system link still worked fine last time I checked...

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[CastrTroy]

I did it. Seriously. It's a big nuisance to have to switch discs everytime you want to switch games, especially on the Wii when many times you are just playing party games. Emulating a retail system is fine as long as you own the actual games. Although emulation of current systems is so slow that I would have to wonder why you would even want to attempt this.

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[sudden.zero]

Yeah me too! I own a black wii but the graphics are definitely obnoxious on my 60" in the basement. I was playing COD the other night and after a while I started to get a headache due to the poor graphic quality.

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[ThatMegathronDude]

The problem is that NTSC over composite really sucks. There is a significant amount of aliasing that results in dot crawl (vertical lines will be jagged if the colors are too harshly distinct). You can mitigate the worst of the aliasing problems by using S-Video cables if you are limited to a standard definition display. Many HDTV sets have a 3d comb filter to partially anti-alias the NTSC signal, but you can't do it perfectly and there will always be fuzziness and/or dot crawl depending on your display. Chances are good that HDTV sets are leaving that out now to save a few cents or make space for more HDMI ports etc.

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[Gordonjcp]

Component still looks like crap because they still have the RGB signal processed into YUV. Just hook it up with an RGB cable and it'll be fine. a Wii-to-RGB SCART cable is about £5, and a Wii-to-RGB VGA cable is a little more, depending on where you shop.

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[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it'll be just great until these bastards steal the OtherOS option from us.

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[TheRaven64]

the texture coordinates will stay the same, so if a brick texture is wrapped twice in SD then it will still be twice in HD. Just it will fill more physical pixels.

And that fill will be properly antialiased for the target resolution, rather than correctly antialiased for the wrong resolution and then stretched. The stretching means that the antialiasing actually makes the pixelation worse, not better.

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[TheRaven64]

Even for 2D games, it's not quite true. I just played Space Quest 5 through using DOSBox's HQ3x mode. The scaling algorithm is designed to preserve gradients and straight lines in the source, and to add antialiasing to both. It looks much nicer than SQ5 looked on my old PC, back in the '90s. For some reason, GOG.com's default DOSBox config file used linear scaling, so I saw both versions.

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[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Headaches? Really? Do you get headaches watching Youtube videos that are at half the Wii's output resolution, too? Or are you being melodramatic?

I think he's referring to the fact that if you take the cable that comes with the Wii and hook it into an HDTV it looks like ass. I think at some point Nintendo should have started shipping Wii consoles with component cables.

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[Osgeld]

name 1 console (not handheld) that Nintendo has produced that has been backwards compatible

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[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Marginally sharper pictures do not improve games.

I'm getting tired of the meme that graphics are good enough and don't matter any more. My favorite game is Forza 3, and it would DEFINITELY be better at 1080p with a solid 60 fps (rather than the current un-aliased 720 with noticeable stuttering, and cardboard cutout pit crews). I cannot see how that could not be considered an improvement.

Frame-rate is tied to the control of the game, so there's some merit to what you say. But as far as cardboard cutout pit crews go, you wouldn't be noticing those after a few plays. Improved graphics are nice, but a faster processor doesn't make the game more fun.

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[HaZardman27]

My only problem with this is that I can't play Monster Hunter Tri online with Dolphin. This sucks because my main complain about MHT is how crowded and muddy everything looks at 480 lines of resolution.

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[HaZardman27]

But emulating a retail system? That's piracy, whether you own the game or not.

What if you own the console and the games you're playing on the emulator?

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[Anonymous Coward]

The Wii?

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[HaZardman27]

I believe the difference is in the fact that developers are still trying to develop rich and detailed environments despite the poor video output capabilities of the console. GP's mention of Twilight Princess is a good point; also take a look at Monster Hunter Tri. Both have very detailed environments that look muddy and cluttered at 480 lines of resolution. An Atari and NES, for example, had relatively simple graphics and environments, so there wasn't nearly as much strain to make out all the details.

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[afex]

just wanted to throw in my two cents - i used to install chips around the D2Ckey era (when they were all 25-30 wire and a PITA) and i was SHOCKED at the amount of clients I had that were doing it only to play backups of their own games due to having kids. Seriously, it had to be like 1/6 people (i would say i was averaging 20 systems a week) that were in this bucket. Some of them had no idea you could even download them, and never even considered it!

almost gave me a tiny shred of hope for the 'fair use' arguments that people always throw around!

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[VGPowerlord]

Ah, well if you decide to get back into it, keep those cables in mind. The problem isn't that the Wii's output sucks, the problem is that modern HDTV's interpret the signal lousily. It's something I will never understand.

...and don't forget to change the output to 480p (NTSC) or 576p (PAL) in the Wii's settings.

Progressive scan really is better than interlaced.

If you're playing GameCube games on the Wii, you may have to hold a button down to get the option to play in progressive mode (B on the GameCube controller by default, I think).

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[PitaBred]

It's not NTSC over composite. It's a proper 480p output if you enable it in the Wii menu. I have no problems with dot crawl, all the graphics are MUCH sharper (especially the HUD style things), and so on.

Really, get the component cables. They're $10-$15.

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[Anonymous Coward]

Minecraft

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[VGPowerlord]

If I had Mod points (which I opt out of simply because the only conversations I ever want to mod are ones I want to participate in), I'd mod this up.

To refine the parents point, the Wii can play GameCube games just fine provided you have a GC controller and memory card.

Sadly, I liked the PS2 compatibility in the original PS3 better: the PS3 created memory card files on the PS3 hard drive and also used the PS3 controller. Then again, the PS2 to PS3 controller change isn't a paradigm change like the GC to Wii controller was.

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[Fishchip]

That must have been a trick question.

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[Vectormatic]

Improved graphics are nice, but a faster processor doesn't make the game more fun.

oh come on, even if improved realism in physics and AI dont float your boat, wacky ragdoll physics and thousands of objects make stuff a lot of fun

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[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Improved graphics are nice, but a faster processor doesn't make the game more fun.

oh come on, even if improved realism in physics and AI dont float your boat, wacky ragdoll physics and thousands of objects make stuff a lot of fun

You're not describing graphics, you're describing gameplay mechanics. Nobody said improved graphics don't open doors for new gameplay.

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[brkello]

The reason you are emulating is to pirate games (be honest). Piracy is a term we use for using software illegally...so no, piracy isn't just theft on the high sees. Words evolve and can have different meanings. This is probably a subtle troll or you are just weird.

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[scot4875]

Your TV's upscaler has a lot to do with how good standard def signals look. When I went shopping for a new flat-screen TV, I specifically looked for one that had good upscaling. It makes a huge difference, because I've seen more expensive TVs that have awful upscaling, and the Wii (and other older systems) look like utter shit.

--Jeremy

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[omnichad]

I just want big blocky square pixels. I don't want it blended or blurred. That's just never as clear or as nice looking as the pixel-perfect graphics being drawn at the lower resolution. But that won't get rid of the color noise. Still need digital.

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[Marc_Hawke]

I've had a USB Loader on my Wii for 2 years now. There has never been a single game I didn't own ripped to the harddrive. (In fact, several of the games I DO own are not on the drive because the disks became unreadable before I got the drive set up.)

Projecting your own dishonest tendencies or lack of self-control on to others isn't very nice. Not everyone steals everything they see just because they can.

I think it's interesting that this thread started because someone said they could get a higher resolution display by using an emulator. Someone else chipped in that running off the hard drive has the tangible benefit of being more robust than juggling disks. However, each of these completely valid uses keep being thrown out because OF COURSE people just want free games.

Having copies of games that you were supposed to pay for is a problem, but it it's a complete separate issue from the concept of emulation and 'media-shifting.' If you won't even respect the difference, how do you expect a corporation will, when it becomes an easy target that affects the bottom line.

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[Vectormatic]

you said a faster processor doesnt make games more fun, my counterpoint was that they do, arguably more so then better graphics

take dead rising for example, on the 360 you could have up to a hundred (or so, didnt get that far) zombies om screen and smash through them like ragdolls. On the wii, the cpu could only handle a few zombies at once, transforming the game into a resident evil ripoff, sans the horror setting

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[hedwards]

It's not a meme, it's true. If the game isn't sufficiently immersive that you forget about that, then the game sucks and fixing the graphics isn't going to solve that problem. We've long since hit the point where increased graphical quality was anything other than nice.

Unless you're one of those people that insists on sitting with their nose on the screen and quibbling about why you can see the pixels.

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[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Again, you are describing game mechanics, not graphics. I understand completely what you're saying, but you're arguing against the wrong point. The statement "prettier graphics don't make a game better" is not a statement that against the idea that more processing power means new types of games to play.

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[h4rr4r]

Or maybe, you're totally fucking wrong.
I am going to flat out say it is that.

If game disks and a wii is bought to do this, were does copyright infringement enter into it?

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[Anonymous Coward]

The reason you are emulating is to pirate games (be honest).

The reason you are jailbreaking is to pirate apps (be honest).

The reason you object to airport security procedures is that you are a terrorist (be honest).

The reason you don't want the location of your car constantly tracked is that you're committing crimes (be honest).

There are a lot of reasons to run emulators other than piracy. The example was JUST NOW given that you can render Wii games in HD resolution -- the emulator just plain works better than the original. Consoles break down, discs get scratched or broken, people want a convenient way to test homebrew software, people want to run games from another region, people don't want the clutter of a dozen old consoles or hundreds of game discs.

Before you start assuming that anyone would only do something for illicit reasons, try thinking of what else you can do with it.

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[AvitarX]

Considering the thread is about 1080p output, I would say that even if it is true in general, it is likely not the case for this discussion.

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[AvitarX]

I purchased Zelda (the original) for the Wii Download for that reason.

I already owned it for the Game Cube, but for $5.00 it was worth it to have it on the home screen.

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[KDR_11k]

Nintendo already does solid 60 fps games on the Wii, they don't need an upgraded console for that. HD output is a nice-to-have thing and really necessary for new hardware these days but I don't think people would pay much extra just to get Wii games in HD.

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[thetoadwarrior]

Of course but how many people do you honestly think are buying game disks and a wii only to play them on their PC? Most emulator users aren't known for actually owning the software in question they're using.

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[thetoadwarrior]

You're more than free to prove him wrong but whether you want to admit it or not most people using emulators don't own all the games they're playing or do you think there are people out there who own every single arcade game they have in their MAME collection?

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[tao]

Actually, I've hacked my Wii to load games from a hard drive. Not only do I only load it with games that I actually own. I haven't even loaded it with all the games that I own, because the *fucking* shitty DVD in the Wii has broken. Glad I did that hack so I can at least use the Wii for something sensible... (Though to be fair I hardly touch the Wii these days, since I have a PS3 with tons of great titles).

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[k_187]

One could make the argument that your license to the game (made under its publisher's copyright) does not include format shifting from the Wii disks to the emulator's HD. In the US at least, I don't think that particular argument has ever been made in Court. Not that I'd agree with it, but it still could be made.

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[h4rr4r]

I bet a fair percentage. Not 100% but probably a decent amount. Most people are pretty honest.

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[Anonymous Coward]

That was a wuss-out on the part of the developers. Onechanbara Zombie Slayers came out for the wii at the same time, and it had a hundred zombies onscreen simultaneously... and looked better than Dead Rising, anyway. It was just a bad port, and they blamed the Wii hardware.

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[KDR_11k]

Yeah but that's because Capcom used the Resident Evil 4 engine for the Wii version. There are PS2 games that have quite large crowds like the Earth Defense Force games or Demon Chaos.

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[Anonymous Coward]

I refused to purchase our kids a Wii just because of those lame graphics. I also refused to purchase a PS3 when they took out the PS2 backwards compatibility. Now glad we waited, the Kinect rocks (but needs more games).

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[Anonymous Coward]

What's wrong with your brain? Seriously, what the hell?

There's a big difference between "Piracy using emulators (and, in fact, any sort of programmable platform that allows you to copy and run data) is common." and "Oh, you're recommending that someone try an emulator to run the software they own to enjoy a better experience? You know running an emulator is piracy, right? ... Oh, admit it, regardless of whether that specific example we were just discussing was piracy, the ONLY reason you'd EVER run an emulator is piracy."

Emulators are not INHERENTLY tied to piracy. The statistics are completely irrelevant to this kind of discussion, where someone recommends using an emulator for a legitimate purpose and some complete fucking idiots like yourself start up with this "don't use it for this non-piracy purpose because emulators = piracy" self-contradictory bullshit.

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[Anonymous Coward]

You're wrong; it makes a big difference:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3736224/misc/why_nintendo_why.png

Rendered FFCC: My Life as a King in Dolphin at 720p on my TV and I was blown away by the difference compared to 480p rendering on the Wii. I didn't even hanve anti-aliasing enabled, which would have looked exceptionally nicer had I done so.

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[Anonymous Coward]

Technical impossible, the Wii renders to a frame buffer in memory, and a game chooses the size of the frame buffer, current games just don't have support for larger buffers.

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[Anonymous Coward]

So why didn't you refuse to purchase a Kinect because of the lack of games?

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[Anonymous Coward]

If it's stuttering, it's a bad game, period. Making it prettier won't help.

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[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Yeah, we should just go back to making all games in 320x200 with 16 colours because graphics don't matter at all. Portal 2 would be fucking awesome like that.

Take Portal 2, play it until you're bored with it, then double the resolution and poly count and tell us about how you immediately picked it up and played it over again.

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[Anonymous Coward]

Take Portal 2, lower the graphics to EGA level and try to even play through it once.

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[thetoadwarrior]

It's not just about honesty but technical ability and I think your average user would find it easier to just download the game rather than go through the process of setting up their Wii to rip games and I don't see them stopping with just the ones they own. After all if most people were honest then Mame wouldn't have gone anywhere because let's be honest how many people own one arcade cabinet let alone hundreds of them?

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[Jeff DeMaagd]

Is the standard cable S-Video? S-Video signals have deficiencies that aren't apparent on most SD TVs. Once you have the extra resolution and extra screen size, it really sticks out.

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[MobileTatsu-NJG]

As long as the graphics were designed for it (they would be.), it'd play just fine.

That's also not what the discusion is about. Which... is amazing considering how clearly it has been illustrated both in the video game and in the movie world.

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[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Is the standard cable S-Video? S-Video signals have deficiencies that aren't apparent on most SD TVs. Once you have the extra resolution and extra screen size, it really sticks out.

No, at least in my case S-Video didn't help. (Pilot error is a possibility, here.)

http://www.amazon.com/HD-Pro-Component-Cable-Wii-Nintendo/dp/B000M4KIME/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303770093&sr=8-1

^^ That is effectively what I got. My HDTV picked right up on it and it works really well. Virtual Console games look great on it! (the original Donkey Kong Country felt muddy until I got this cable..) I even have my Wii set to 16:9, so Super Mario Galaxy looked great on it.

The problem isn't the resolution, it's how the TV was taking the signal and putting it up on the screen. It's like they didn't want to bother with going through the extra effort to make that look nice. I had the same problem when I hooked up an old DVD player to an LCD monitor via NTSC.

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[bloodhawk]

When it comes to the Wiipiracy and games I would happily take the bet that the dishonest ones number above the 99% mark.

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[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody said that graphics were everything, you just assumed that was what people meant. The ability for good graphics allows a lot more freedom in what you can do and portray in a game or film.

If there were two games that were equal in all regards except one looked a lot better, that's the one I'm getting.

Re:Upgrade

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Nobody said that graphics were everything, you just assumed that was what people meant.

That wasn't what I was arguing. But while we're on this topic, nobody's saying we don't need anything past the Atari 2600, either.

The ability for good graphics allows a lot more freedom in what you can do and portray in a game or film.

You're not talking about graphics, you're talking about game play mechanics.

If there were two games that were equal in all regards except one looked a lot better, that's the one I'm getting.

I would, too. But, what you would NOT do, is buy the prettier game that's less fun.

Re:Upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

You're not talking about graphics, you're talking about game play mechanics.

Gameplay mechanics that are allowed due to graphics ability.

I would, too. But, what you would NOT do, is buy the prettier game that's less fun.

That really depends. If the visuals in a game are so far ahead of everything else, I could overlook other shortcomings just for some eyecandy goodness. The same applies for story, soundtrack and gameplay. I'll find out beforehand what the game is like, so it's not like I'll be getting ripped off or anything.

Re:Upgrade

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Gameplay mechanics that are allowed due to graphics ability.

Close. Gameplay mechanics that are allowed due to hardware. Graphics illustrate your interactions. Pretty graphics make them more appetizing to your eyes. Moving gobs of verticies around means new avenues of game play are available. There are no games, however, that hinge on bump mapping.

If the visuals in a game are so far ahead of everything else, I could overlook other shortcomings just for some eyecandy goodness. The same applies for story, soundtrack and gameplay. I'll find out beforehand what the game is like, so it's not like I'll be getting ripped off or anything.

We're all guilty of falling for gimmicks. The game still stinks, though, you just don't feel ripped off about it.

Re:Upgrade

[MightyYar]

Forgot about that. It's still not piracy :)

Re:Upgrade

[YoshiDan]

I'm using the composite video cable that came with my wii to connect it to my HDTV and it looks pretty good. I've had no problems with it.

Re:Upgrade

[DeadCatX2]

Okay, I'll give a stranger on the Internet the benefit of the doubt. Congratulations, you're one of the exceptions. Judging by all the people who knee-jerked at my post to defend themselves, it seems like there's a few exceptions here.

But seriously, "projecting my own dishonest tendencies?" Do you really think your average USB Loader is used to play games that are legally owned? I don't believe that you, or the people who modded me flamebait, are actually that naive. You don't like the truth, and you're trying to convince yourself that it's not the truth because *you* don't do it. Yes, there are exceptions, and I even admitted that. Exceptions are not the rule.

Ultimately, it seems as if everyone missed my point. I thought the note that "Region shifting is legitimate" would demonstrate that I'm pretty liberal when it comes to media-shifting.

Allow me to reiterate the point: Emulation is okay for systems that have been abandoned. Emulating a system still available in retail is piracy, even if you own the games, because the hardware has not been abandoned. It's not *software* piracy, as in stealing games; it's *hardware* piracy.

Consider this: it's okay to install "pirated" Windows 98, because 98 is abandoned. It is NOT okay to install "pirated" Windows 7, even if you own a legitimate copy of Windows 7 on some other PC.

Re:Upgrade

[DeadCatX2]

NES has been abandoned. You cannot buy a retail NES at the store brand new.

GameCube has been abandoned. You cannot buy a retail GameCube at the store brand new.

Neither of these examples are piracy, and if you had bothered to read my post instead of looking for a reason to get mad at someone on the Internet, you might have realized that.

Re:Upgrade

[DeadCatX2]

Owning the game and the system changes nothing. The hardware is not abandoned.

Let's say you buy a laptop. It has a legitimate copy of Windows 7. Does this mean you're legally entitled to install pirated Windows 7 on your Desktop?

Re:Upgrade

[DeadCatX2]

Even if you own the games and the console, the hardware has not been abandoned and therefore emulators are hardware piracy.

That said, owning the console at least lends a shred of credibility to the owner. Less wrong is still wrong.

Re:Upgrade

[Khyber]

"The reason you are emulating is to pirate games (be honest)."

Nope, the reason I'm emulating is to preserve my original game discs, of which I have over $2,500 worth.

You're so narrow-minded it's not even funny.

Re:Upgrade

[Khyber]

"You cannot buy a retail GameCube at the store brand new."

Wanna bet? I just picked up a silver GameCube today, brand new and in all original packaging with Super Mario Sunshine, for my cousin.

Perhaps you should actually go to a store instead of saying things which imply you never leave the basement.

Re:Upgrade

[Khyber]

Uh, you are aware the Wii can read and play GameCube games, right?

Enjoying that waste of money?

Re:Upgrade

[Khyber]

"emulators are hardware piracy."

You're dead fucking wrong.

Explain BLEEM asshole.

That's what I thought. Shut the fuck up.

Re:Upgrade

[Khyber]

"the problem is that modern HDTV's interpret the signal lousily. It's something I will never understand."

It's called the difference between interlaced and progressive.

Have you NEVER owned a CRT in your life?

Re:Upgrade

[Khyber]

"It's like they didn't want to bother with going through the extra effort to make that look nice."

No, it's a bandwidth limitation of a single two-conductor co-ax cable and the processing unit it's attached to.

It's purely hardware limitations, not laziness.

Re:Upgrade

[Khyber]

"Again, you are describing game mechanics, not graphics."

Bullshit. Everything he's talking about is purely a hardware limitation.

Quit pretending that you understand, because you obviously don't and have explicitly said so beforehand.

Re:Upgrade

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

The statement "prettier graphics don't make a game better" is not a statement that against the idea that more processing power means new types of games to play.

Bullshit. Everything he's talking about is purely a hardware limitation.

Uh huh. While we're on the topic of not understanding....

Re:Upgrade

[FiloEleven]

According to one of the third party companies with a dev rig, the new motion controllers are better than PS3 Move, which is by all accounts better than Motion Plus.

I'm pretty interested in the form factor of the controllers. They're rumored to have HD screens in them, so does that mean Nintendo is moving away from the wand format it just established? Will they return to a two-handed grip only with motion--like Sixaxis--or do they have a new Wonka-esque contraption in the works?

If it's backwards-compatible and they create a real multiplayer environment and marketplace for more indie (read: not FPS) games like those found on XBLA, which has also been hinted at, it would be very compelling as a Wii owner. WiiWare has some good stuff but misses out on a lot because networked multiplayer is rightfully in.

With HDTV support and current-gen power under the hood all but confirmed, this thing could be a contender. Nintendo will likely have a year or two to show hardcore gamers if they're serious before MS and Sony can up the ante with shinier hardware, and I think we're near the point where diminishing returns start to show in that department--assuming game publishers are even willing to increase their production costs threefold to model better raindrop splashes or what have you.

Re:Upgrade

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

It's called the difference between interlaced and progressive.

I understand interlacing just fine. I don't understand why my computers play back interlaced DVDs just fine and the Wii looks like ass on a simliar type display using the standard AV cable. Fine, I'm ignorant, big deal.

Re:Upgrade

[PyroMosh]

Well yes, you can buy a Gamecube brand new. It's called a Wii, and they simply added features and changed the name. But that's not really relevant...

Why do you consider the point of "abandonment" to be legally relevant to the question of software piracy? What does one have to do with the other?

Nintendo abandoned the NES, Okay. Did their copyright expire on Super Mario Bros.?
Did they republish it on the SNES? Yes.
Did they republish it on the Gameboy Advance? Yes.
Did they republish it on the Wii? Yes.

Would it matter if they *didn't* republish it? Would that somehow invalidate their claim to the copyright? they didn't (as far as I know) republish it during the N64 era. Does that mean that the copyright should have expired, and they should not have been able to control the copyright for the property on the subsequent platforms?

Re:Upgrade

[__aailob1448]

Nonsense. Component looks great, I've tried it with 480p, 720p and 1080p and the image quality is indistinguishable from HDMI.

Re:Upgrade

[__aailob1448]

In conclusion, piracy is a noble service performed by historians dedicated to preserving the human intellectual heritage for the decades and centuries to come, when DRM servers are dead and legit copies are uselessly crippled.

Re:Upgrade

[AvitarX]

Yes, I was replying to a post about the annoyance of changing discs. And mentioned it was worth the money to have it on the home screen.

What good is a remote with a power button if you cannot play. The game you want without going up to the system anyway.

Re:Upgrade

[n7ytd]

NES has been abandoned. You cannot buy a retail NES at the store brand new.

GameCube has been abandoned. You cannot buy a retail GameCube at the store brand new.

Copyright law does not agree with your definition of piracy. "Abandoned" (not being sold at retail at the moment) does not automatically mean a work enters the public domain or that at work is in any way less protected by copyright. Just because I can't buy a 1982-era PacMan arcade game, does not mean that I can freely copy the ROMs.

Re:Upgrade

[Coren22]

If there are people using it for pirating, by all means, prosecute them, but don't be implying that emulating is piracy, as it is not. I would gladly emulate Chrono Trigger, it was a great game, and I still have the cart, just no Super Nintendo for it. This does not make me a pirate. It would also be nice to have all the Wii games be able to run from a hard drive. I have kids, and they have a tendency to leave the disks out to get scratched up, no matter how many times I yell at them for it they still do it. But because of the possibility if piracy, I am automatically labeled a pirate for it. The above poster also offers up the emulation option to allow Wii games to not look like shit on a HD screen, and brkello automatically labels him a pirate. We as the intellectual elite are the ones who should be pushing for intellectual honesty, sure some will pirate, but that doesn't mean the good reasons for things shouldn't be allowed. I like my DVD burner, it doesn't mean I copy DVDs that I rent, nor should I be accused of it.

Re:Upgrade

[Coren22]

With that argument, I have to say, "You have a DVD burner? YOU'RE A PIRATE!"

Re:Upgrade

[Coren22]

This is not piracy, you have been told this repeatedly already. Get your head out of your rear and wake up. Just because people can use something for an illegal activity, does not mean that legal uses are suddenly illegal.

Re:Upgrade

[Coren22]

What law school did you graduate from? The only hardware "piracy" that is even possibly illegal would be producing the actual hardware from your home shop and selling it as the real thing. Emulating has been proven legal previously, so until you can show me court cases saying it is illegal to emulate a currently sold system, you are full of shit.

Re:Upgrade

[Coren22]

Can you link me a site for this? I hadn't heard of it, and having kids I would very much agree in the need for it.

Re:Upgrade

[Coren22]

Second this. It helped a ton, even on my 32" 1080P LCD. The sound is so much better through optical as well, no more noise picked up from the video, or on the video.

Re:Upgrade

[thetoadwarrior]

You may win with that one except for the fact a dvd burner has many more uses than a Wii emulator

Re:Upgrade

[thetoadwarrior]

I have no issues with emulators existing for exactly the reason mentioned where you have old games but can't play them. Hell if you didn't have the game, even if it's wrong, I don't see it being a problem playing old games you didn't own because while it is an infringement you're not really encouraging people to deprive developers of money.

No company is going to go bankrupt because you're playing Pitfall on a Colecovision emulator. The homebrew scene is interesting too. But if you look at virtually any message board for emulation and it's filled with brain dead little spackers who clearly use it for one purpose to have all the games they can't afford or don't want to pay for which is why it's not that cool to be releasing emulators for current systems.

If someone released a Wii emulator that could only play homebrew games then I'd be all up for supporting that.

Re:Upgrade

[thetoadwarrior]

Emulators are not inherently tied to piracy but trawling through virtually any emulator message board will show you the vast majority are little kids looking for a way to have games they can't afford or don't want to pay for because they rather spend their limited funds on something else but still feel entitled to play any game they can get their hands on.

That is why I think people should show some consideration when developing emulators. A wii emulator that only plays homebrew games would be more than awesome. A Wii emulator isn't like a DVD burner. A DVD burner has hundreds if not thousands of uses other than copyright infringement emulating a game system does not. If a developer genuinely doesn't want to encourage people to infringe on a company's copyright then why not wait to release your work or handicap the initial releases until the system's life has passed. I believe that would actually help the homebrew scene too because it would give them years of being the only source for gaming on the emulator without having to worry about competing with Super Mario Galaxy for example.

Re:Upgrade

[jsvendsen]

...all the games they can't afford or don't want to pay for...

The thing is, there is no harm in that. Not to anyone. Pirating something that you would under no circumstance pay for is a Pareto improvement, as it leaves someone better off, and most importantly nobody worse off than if infringement had not happened.

Re:Upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't think the Wii did 576p, only 576i, or maybe there is another reason which I can't remember for me to set my Wii to 480p becuase I'm sure I would have set it to 576p if I could.

Can't wait

[LoverOfJoy]

I can't wait for all the wii games to start appearing in the discount bins.

Re:Can't wait

[Goffee71]

Get 'em quick! Its amazing how the prices of GameCube classics shot up when they became Wii collectables. Time to start hoarding. wii2roundup.blogspot.com

Re:Can't wait

[Anonymous Coward]

Alot of Wii games go straight to the bargain bin cause 80% of them suck...

Re:Can't wait

[scot4875]

Sturgeon's Law. And 80% is being generous.

--Jeremy

Makes sense.

[LWATCDR]

When the Wii was there where still a lot of none HD TVs in peoples homes so Nintendo targeted standard def and kept the prices low. Now HDTV is very common and thanks to Moores law Nintendo can come out with a console that will probably outperform the 360 and PS/3 and be cheaper. Now Nintendo can produce a new machine that will out perform the completion and cost less just as the Wii sales start to drop. Brilliant marketing plan and it will sell like hotcakes.

Re:Makes sense.

[Max Romantschuk]

One more thing: It HAS to run existing Wii games. But so far Nintendo has a pretty good track record (N64->Cube, Cube->Wii) so I'm not too concerned.

I'm sure our family will upgrade, but I'd hate to have to keep two consoles around. Given that the controllers are bluetooth devices keeping the old controllers working as well should be a no-brainer.

Re:Makes sense.

[dadelbunts]

You can run N64 games on a gamecube?

Re:Makes sense.

[Frigga's Ring]

I have to say that I'm not thrilled about this. The next Nintendo console will come out in 2012 as the 360 and PS3 are reaching the end of their lifecycles. But even if this system is set up to compete with the other two consoles, I don't foresee developers flocking to develop on the console and then down rez for the PS3 and 360. If anything, this new console will get imports designed for one of the other two systems.

This also means that when the next Microsoft and Sony systems come out (rumors point to 2014), the Nintendo console will be behind in hardware again.

And if their market are the casual gamers and families? I get the feeling that they're going to lose out more and more to the mobile and web markets much in the way that the DS and PSP are. Games that require the motion controls of the Wii such as Just Dance do well, but as with the Rock Band/Guitar Heroes of the past, there will be a point where no one will want to buy a new game just for new songs.

I wish Nintendo the best of luck, but I see a long uphill battle in their future that they just can't win unless they evolve agressively.

I'd recommend checking out the April 15th episode of Weekend Confirmed or the Extra Credits episode "Consoles are the new Coin-op" for insight on where I'm coming from.

Re:Makes sense.

[timeOday]

Yep, just last week all the news outlets were reporting that Sony and Microsoft aren't releasing next-gen consoles anytime soon. They seem to have an informal(?) truce between them, but they're creating a big opening for Nintendo.

Re:Makes sense.

[LWATCDR]

I have never seen N64 games run on the Gamecube so that is news to me. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't have the new Wii run the old Wii games. Odds are good that they will add some programable shaders and such but keep backward compatibility. It will probably be the must have for Christmas this year.

Re:Makes sense.

[dunezone]

Brilliant marketing plan and it will sell like hotcakes.

Maybe, the big seller of the Wii was the low initial cost and ease of use. My mother, father, grandfather could figure out the Wii by flailing their arms. Hand them over a controller with directional pads, tiny joysticks, multiple buttons and you just alienated the market that really bought into the Wii. For the majority of my friends who own multiple consoles we might hold back on this new Nintendo console. For the most of us this will be the first time we might not buy into a launch console from Nintendo because the Wii really did fall flat. Its online experience is garbage compared to the 360 or PS3 (seriously the friend codes system), the games are mostly designed to be simple and not really engaging, it really wasn't much cheaper when you purchased all the controllers and nun-chucks.

Except for some of the Nintendo exclusives it wasn't worth the purchase. How many times can I play the same rehashed Mario / Zelda story?

Their core market for the Wii was the family that was willing to spend the $250 on a gaming console. Now they might come out with a system thats $400 and totally alienate that market. And as for the core gaming market they migth back off until we know for sure were not getting shovel ware.

Re:Makes sense.

[PitaBred]

Next year. It's not releasing until 2012. Which is still 2 years earlier than Sony or MS are refreshing their consoles.

Re:Makes sense.

[petermgreen]

But so far Nintendo has a pretty good track record

Afaict the Wii is the only console nintendo has released that can play games from it's predecessor directly though ports have been released of some games.

Re:Makes sense.

[LWATCDR]

If they are showing it at E3 I am guessing it will be shipping this Christmas. Only makes sense that if it is playable they will want it out for the Holiday season. Nintendo relies less on 3 party developers for launch titles than any other console maker does.

Re:Makes sense.

[Max Romantschuk]

It seems I had my facts messed up. The Wii does run GC games, but I have no idea why I imagined the GC runs N64 games. Serves me right to post and do housework at the same time... ;)

Re:Makes sense.

[tuffy]

It's probably more a matter of neither of them being willing (or able) to lose a lot of money on each unit of new hardware while they're still paying off the losses of the current generation's launch. That's why they've been trying to encourage this generation to last longer than usual.

Nintendo, on the other hand, generally sells hardware at a profit. This puts them in a good position to bring in a lot of 3rd party development and expand their dominance from the current generation.

Re:Makes sense.

[canajin56]

The system might be cheap, but I can't imagine how much a Wii remote with a built-in HD capacitive touchscreen will cost.

Re:Makes sense.

[Belial6]

It isn't exactly a predecessor, but the GC could play GBA games. They sold an adapter for the cartridge to plug in. The SNES could also play GB and GBC games.

Re:Makes sense.

[Knuckles]

Because you can run some important ones in the WiiWare Channel or whatever it is called?

Re:Makes sense.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo designed a Game Boy Player-like attachment for the GameCube that played N64 games, but it never got released.

Re:Makes sense.

[Belial6]

I'm not buying the phone and tablets market is going to kill consoles. I know a lot of people that play games on their phones and tablets. I don't know anyone that has given up a DS in exchange for one. Some people like me have added them to the mix. Some people don't care about games enough to carry around a dedicated system, so are new customers, not customers taken from the dedicated hand held. Solitaire was by far the PC game that was played by the most people. Virtually every single person with a PC played it. That does not mean it took over PC gaming. People played it because it was their, but when they went looking for a game, Solitaire wasn't what they were looking for. The same applies to phones.

Just look at the big hit of the phone gaming market. Angry Birds. Sure, it is entertaining. Yes, I have played it. It would be lost in a sea of just as good or better games on the DS. The reason it gets so much press is that it is an actually playable fun game on the phone, and that it is just that rare to find a decent game there. The phones have crappy interfaces for most video games. There are certain types of games that work with a touch screen, but there are lots that don't. Covering your screen with your fingers just doesn't make a good interface for things that are real time.

Of course, if more phone manufacturers were to start offering better controllers for the phones, we could see the same convergence that we saw with the PDA and phone market. With the current crop of phones, that isn't happening though.

As for the Next Wii. Whether it is a good idea or not will depend on several factors. Presumably, the Wii2 would have better graphics than the PS3 and 360. Certainly 1920x1080 is as good as it will be, and any future PS or Xbox will not do higher resolution, as the TV will be the limiting factor, so there is no reason that anyone should need to down rez for any future Nintendo console. Looking at sales, Nintendo clearly made the right choice in reducing cost by not going HD before the TVs were mainstream. If Nintendo gets 2 years on a Wii2 before a future PS or Xbox gets release, they may have enough of a market lead that Sony and MS just can't compete. If the Wii2 is more powerful than the PS3 and Xbox360, and is only ~$100 more expensive, it will either sweep the next gen market for lack of competition, or it will force Sony and MS to excellent their release plans. Rushing their systems to market could lead to half baked systems that further help Nintendo.

So, my conclusion would be the exact opposite as yours. My impression is that if Nintendo is basically ready to release their next system, they are in a very strong position compared to MS and Sony. It means that they will likely be defining the market with Sony and MS playing catch up.

Re:Makes sense.

[Belial6]

That's funny, because the PS3 and 360 are the first consoles that I have skipped. The online lockdown was what drove me away. In my home we still play 2600, Nes, C64, you name it. We usually keep the current generation systems plugged into TVs in the living room and family room, and then have 1 or 2 older systems on on each of the two TVs.

The online shackles that are becoming the norm means that using the the systems after they are no longer the current generation continued functionality becomes less and less likely. I'm just not interested in renting my consoles, even if it is on a 5 year lease.

Re:Makes sense.

[LWATCDR]

I don't see Nintendo producing a $400 console. So a new wii that sells for $250 with HD output is what I am betting on.

Re:Makes sense.

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I wouldn't call that a truce. It's more like a desire to recoup all the investment they put into their respective systems.

Re:Makes sense.

[brkello]

The Wii started out from a position of weakness as far as technical specs go. The controller saved them this round.
 
If the Wii 2 is technically superior, how in the world do you think it would be cheaper? You know, the prices for the components of the 360 and PS3 go down over time.
 
Sales of the Wii have plummeted the last 2 years and profits are down. They need to come out with a new system.
 
This wasn't a marketing strategy...I think it is bizarre that you think it was one. Now that most people know what motion control is all about, we will have to see if they come out with something innovative again that still appeals to casual gamers. I think a lot of casuals barely use their Wii. They aren't going to be inclined to get another system since they only buy a few games a year. It will be interesting to see what Nintendo will do. I predict they will do fine, but will fail to reach the success they had with the Wii.

Re:Makes sense.

[FrostDust]

Maybe you're just talking about home consoles, but every handheld Nintendo console was able to play it's predecessor's games by just popping in the cartridge (3DS->DS->GBA->GBC->GB), not counting the Virtual Boy.

Re:Makes sense.

[Lord of Hyphens]

I think most people try to forget the Virtual Boy.

Re:Makes sense.

[hedwards]

Nintendo has a rotten track record in that respect. The Cube to Wii is the only time they did that on their consoles. They could have done so with the SNES, but opted not to, the sound was IIRC the only thing holding it back and definitely could have been done.

They did significantly better with their handhelds, you could use a Gameboy cartridge up to at least the Game Boy Advance, and possibly a bit beyond that.

Re:Makes sense.

[Joe Snipe]

Way to stay true to your Sig.

Re:Makes sense.

[archen]

I don't think the Wii 2 needs to be that much better than the current PS3 honestly. The development costs required to get a title to really push the boundaries of what the PS3 can do is crazy high, and it doesn't seem like most game makers are that interested in trying to figure out how to interface the Wiimote with a game. TV technology has left the Wii in the dust, and the controllers could certainly be improved, but I think if they manage to keep the price down and do that much they'll be fine.

Re:Makes sense.

[Frigga's Ring]

I hope you're right. I'll just add that I believe the most successful games on the 360 and PS3 had strong online multiplayer features. I hope this is the console where Nintendo gets online multiplayer right because I don't think they'll attract serious gamers until they do.

If they can bring the first party Nintendo games I love and the cross platform games I picked up the other two consoles to play, they'll have won me back. Until we see some details, though, I remain pessimistic.

Re:Makes sense.

[Teckla]

When the Wii was there where still a lot of none HD TVs in peoples homes so Nintendo targeted standard def and kept the prices low. Now HDTV is very common and thanks to Moores law Nintendo can come out with a console that will probably outperform the 360 and PS/3 and be cheaper. Now Nintendo can produce a new machine that will out perform the completion and cost less just as the Wii sales start to drop. Brilliant marketing plan and it will sell like hotcakes.

Speaking as the owner of a Wii, I don't think I'd buy another, unless they change the remotes. The Wiimotes are very fun for a very limited number of games, but they're too clumsy for most games -- in my opinion.

Re:Makes sense.

[Phoobarnvaz]

Nintendo can come out with a console that will probably outperform the 360 and PS/3 and be cheaper. Now Nintendo can produce a new machine that will out perform the completion and cost less just as the Wii sales start to drop.

For Nintendo to outperform a 360 or PS3...is going to be a tall order. Here's just a few of the reasons:

1. Never could play DVD's on a Nintendo. I can play DVD's on a 360 and Blu-Rays/DVD's on a PS3.
2. Have not seen Wii controllers I can use on my PC. Wired 360 controllers work without jumping through hoops when plugged in. Wireless receivers will allow my 360 wireless controllers to work on the PC. I can buy PC controllers in either 360 or PS3 button configurations.
3. Microsoft and Sony had hi-def built in for about $50-100 more than a Wii. Can find a new 360 as cheap or cheaper than a Wii.
4. My 360 can interface with any of the PC's in my home through Windows Media Center.
5. Played the Wii for about a week after I got it. Use my 360 several times a week for playing games/watching movies/TV shows on the home network/watching DVD's. Gave my Wii away to get work done on my car and I feel like I got the better end of the deal. Only regret is that Goldeneye isn't out on the 360.
6. The caliber of games on the 360/Xbox/PS3/PS2/PS1/PSP...even the Nintendo legacy systems...leaves the Wii crying in the dust.

The ship Nintendo is chasing has all ready left the dock...the passengers are getting food poisoning and they're waiting for the USS Posidon to rescue them.

Re:Makes sense.

[jbonomi]

I use my wii remote with my PC all the time. It's just a bluetooth input device, drivers are available even if not provided by Nintendo.

Re:Makes sense.

[shermo]

I haven't owned a console since the N64, but when I did I bought Nintendo games, and Square games. Nintendo has never really relied on 3rd party game developers has it?

Re:Makes sense.

[Daetrin]

This also means that when the next Microsoft and Sony systems come out (rumors point to 2014), the Nintendo console will be behind in hardware again.

Hmmm, let's take a look at the 6th generation.
GameCube: Released late 2001. Arguably most powerful of the gen. 22 million units sold.
XBox: Released late 2001. Arguably second most powerful of the gen. 24 million units sold.
PS2: Released early to late 2000. Arguably the least powerful of the gen. 150 million units sold.

In the 7th gen the 360 is arguably less powerful than the PS3 and came out about a year earlier, but is (currently at least) ahead in sales, although by a much smaller margin.
The two biggest anomalies are the Dreamcast and the Wii. One was (again, arguably) just as powerful as the competition and came out first, but died horribly. The other was unarguably weaker than the competition, came out _after_ the others, and creamed both of them.

If you believe the Dreamcast fans that claim it had better graphics than the PS2 then the only constant is that the winner of the past two generations has been the _weakest_ console, while _most_ of the time coming out before the competition helps, though certainly not always.

Certainly there are a lot of other factors at play, but arguing that coming out with a weaker system first is likely to hurt sales doesn't have a lot of support behind it.

Re:Makes sense.

[Belial6]

I hope by "right" it isn't what Sony and MS are doing, because if they go that route, I'll be driven from the console market.

Re:Makes sense.

[Anonymous Coward]

you're acting like the new wii's HD graphics will be better than the current gen PS3? Fat chance.

Re:Makes sense.

[snuf23]

If you want to buy or rent a game and play it at your home with people at your home, you can do this with both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 without additional cost. Online play for the PS3 is free, the PS network plus paid option adds additional features but is not necessary (I don't use it). Online multiplayer on the Xbox 360 is a paid only option - so in that case you are correct.

Re:Makes sense.

[spire3661]

It needs to do DX11 1080p at 60 FPS. That is the minimum bar.

Re:Makes sense.

[__aailob1448]

It will definitely not sell for $250. You must account for inflation and the fallen dollar.

If they go with separate SKUs like MS and SONY, I'll bet the cheapest and crappiest one will cost $300, and the others will hover around the $450 mark.

Mark my words!

Re:Makes sense.

[LWATCDR]

Simple it will be cheaper because the will not have to pay off as much RnD as Microsoft and Sony did. Sony is still probably paying the RnD costs for the Cell. As a processor it has been a good sized flop. Sony imagined it being used in all sorts of devices including TVs. It really has not been popular outside of some super computer systems and the PS/3. Microsoft didn't go as over board but they did spend a good amount of money to develop the GPU in the XBox. Today Nintendo can probably go with a GPU that is very close to an off the shelf GPU and a GPU that is also close to a COTs part as well. Microsoft and Sony are still paying off the cost of there RnD and the time when they didn't make a profit off the consoles. I will also guess that they will not bother with going BlueRay or with a hard drive. Flash is now really cheap and putting in 32 of flash will not be very expansive at all.
Will it do as well as the WII? Probably not. Will it do better than the Wii is now? I would say yes and will it do as well as the PS3 and 360 are doing now? I will also say yes.

Re:Makes sense.

[LWATCDR]

1. Who cares? Really did you not have a DVD player? Blu-Ray? I have one but I really don't use it much. I use NetFlix streaming or Amazon on my Roku box, Blu-Ray player, and or 360. Mostly on my RokuBox which is under $100.
2. The wii controllers are standard Bluetooth drivers are available for them for your PC.
3. You could buy a crippled 360 no HD for 300 but it also lacked WiFi. The PS3 was a good bit more. and when you are talking about just $100 more then a $249 device you are talking about around 30% more.
4. I never use it on my 360 but if you like it I guess it is nice.
5. Well that is you. Others really like the wii to this day.
6. Pure opinion.

Your last slam is a bit amusing since Nintendo made so much more money than Microsoft or Sony did off of this generation of consoles. We will see but I predict a lot of people will flock to buy this new console because it is new and Microsoft and Sony have nothing new this year. Just because you didn't like it really doesn't matter in the big picture. Nintendo made a mint on a console you didn't like. You features list was interesting because I also have a 360. I never use the 360 controllers on my PC, never use my 360 to access my PC as a media center, and I never use it to play DVDs. If I am going to watch a disk it will be Blu-Ray. For Netflix and other streaming I find the Roku box to be a much better device. It is silent, cheap, and doesn't produce as much heat as the 360. I do agree that streaming is a big deal. How much do you want to bet that the new Wii will have NetFlix built in and will not require you to pay for any type of online Gold membership to use it? The 360 is a good gaming machine but as a meda streamer it is too big, too loud, too expensive, and that Gold Membership to use Netflix? EVIL! Also you can not get Hulu plus, RDIO, or any of the other channels like CNet and YouTube that I get on my tiny, cool, cheap, and silent Roku box.

What a load of crap that is.

 

i can has grammerz?

[ChinggisK]

Wow, someone smarter/more anal than me should do a full count of all the grammatical errors in that summary. I count at least 5, that's gotta be a record.

Re:i can has grammerz?

[Flipstylee]

i'll bite, i counts more :)

Re:i can has grammerz?

[PitaBred]

i'll bite, i counts more :)

You don't make your case very well...

Re:i can has grammerz?

[El_Oscuro]

You must be new here. 5 isn't even in the top ten. For last week.

Graphical Powerhouse

[dadelbunts]

Does anyone else hope this is a super powerful machine. I remember when N64 came out, the graphics on that thing were great. Beat graphics on an playstation no contest.

Re:Graphical Powerhouse

[Anonymous Coward]

You're on crack. The N64 had a couple of advantages like perspective correction and bilinear filtering, but it also had disadvantages like super tiny texture memory and low poly counts. That's not even mentioning the pathetic audio on the N64. Compare the best looking PSX games to the best looking N64 games and it was clear that the Playstation was a far more efficient design.

There were no N64 games that came anywhere near the visual quality of PSX games like Ace Combat 3, Alien Resurrection, Colony Wars, Final Fantasy VII/VIII, Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, Omega Boost, Ridge Racer Type 4 or Vagrant Story.

Re:Graphical Powerhouse

[Anonymous Coward]

You are also on crack, fellow Coward.

Your list of PSX games does little more than show your preferences: prerendered backdrops (FFVII/VIII) or more gritty "realistic" visuals (ie: large texture data).

Yes, the PSX did both of those better, and the N64 couldn't run those games. However, the PSX couldn't possibly run any of the N64's big games either: Banjo Kazooie, Star Fox 64, etc. Smooth rendered graphics of that sort just weren't possible on the PSX architecture; not even close.

Re:Graphical Powerhouse

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you comparing FF7/8? 98% of it was pre-rendered still images, and character models in FF7 were pretty terrible. FF8 was the same fare, but the character models actually looked like humans this time around.

Re:Graphical Powerhouse

[Anonymous Coward]

What? I listed quite a few games covering multiple genres and you cherry-pick FF7/FF8 as my sole preference? Go look up any of the others on Youtube, you might be surprised.

Compare Quake II on the PSX and N64 then tell me that the N64 looks better with a straight face. All of the textures in N64 games are a low res, stretched, blurry mess and 3D models are more blocky than those in a lot of PSX games.

Banjo Kazooie, Star Fox 64

Go look at any of the Spyro games and any of the Colony Wars games.

Re:Graphical Powerhouse

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, first of all, I didn't just pick FFVII / VIII -- I specifically listed two things about your preferences, the second of which you've only further validated: (1) pre-rendered, and (2) large texture data.

I love your counterargument: "nope, these games have great textures compared to N64!" Yes, that's exactly what I said, the PSX has better textures, and therefore does better with gritty or "realistic" graphics. Anyone who lived through that era knows this well.

However, my point--which you've failed to address in any meaningful way--is that textures are only one part of the equation. Spyro's best moments still look absolutely horrid compared to Conker's Bad Fur Day, or even compared to the better levels in Mario 64, a launch title; I know, I've played these platformers to death. The polygonal processing on the PSX, other than its one strong suit in textures, lagged far behind the N64.

PSX graphics jumped around constantly as textures were recalculated, producing an iffy 3D effect that was awkward, to put it mildly. The N64's GPU was far more advanced; look into some specs beyond texture memory if you are interested. It's the difference that a dedicated GPU optimized for smooth rendering makes, and it's very significant.

Besides, I never disagreed that many PSX games weren't possible on N64; you simply miss that nearly every big seller on N64 was just as impossible on the PSX. You fool yourself to think otherwise.

Re:Graphical Powerhouse

[Anonymous Coward]

Show me one N64 game that had more detailed 3D models than the best on the PSX then.

Taking into account everything to do with visuals, PSX games just look better. Whether that is due to better textures or not is irrelevant. It still looks better.

Re:Graphical Powerhouse

[hkmwbz]

No, I don't hope for a powerful machine. Nintendo tried to go down the power route, and look where that got them. Nowhere. Their "powerful machines" sold extremely poorly. Only the "underpowered" Wii sold like crazy. So no, screw graphics and power. Give us enjoyable games instead.

The wii-mote was revolutionary...

[milbournosphere]

and led to a boom in 'casual' gaming. Let's see if they can continue that trend with the Wii ii. I don't own a 360 or PS3, but I own a Wii because it's great at parties and for those times when I just want to throw blue shells at somebody after coming home from work.

It's on!

[StikyPad]

It's on like [name withheld].

(Credit to Bluebreaker in TFA's comments).

Well, there goes Nintendo...

[Millennium]

And now for the second time in as many years, Nintendo is cutting the legs off a system at the top of its game for no better reason than that the developers were crying for pretty pictures. What ever happened to the things that matter?

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's somewhat of an incomplete statement. Developers "crying for pretty pictures" were ones who made games for the 360 and PS3 and decided to skip out the Wii due to the weak hardware. It's why the majority of hit games for the Wii were developed by Nintendo itself. Also, it's not just developers who want better graphics. The biggest reason I skipped out on the Wii (360 owner) was because how just downright awful it looks on my 65" 1080p TV.

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[Anonymous Coward]

*sigh* You're the same sort of wanker who whined about the SNES being superseded, aren't you? In fact, what're you doing on Slashdot? You'd better hurry back to your emulator, else you'll start falling behind on playing through Chrono Trigger every day!

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[PKFC]

I thought you trusted that Nintendo didn't release hardware just for the sake of releasing hardware. The 3DS is a speed bump, but does add 3D, a gyro from the wiimote tech and a pedometer from the pokewalker. The play coins are a cool feature and improves upon the chances of finding someone to streetpass which is also a cool feature. No one knows the feature list of the next home console (being more important than the spec sheet) and so no one can really say. That said, it is disappointing to know that there are games that are still in development for Wii (like Dragon Quest X) and will look outdated after a new console comes out..

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[WillAdams]

Moreover, for those games which are developed for all three consoles, the Wii requires special textures / sprites / whatever the dev is using to make stuff appear on the screen which ratchets up development costs. The Wii having graphics-equivalence w/ the XBox 360 and PS3 will allow devs to use the same graphical elements across all three platforms and should result in more games being available for the Wii.

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[h4rr4r]

There are always games being made for consoles at the end of their lives. There were new games released for the PS2 last year. The ps3 came out years ago.

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[PitaBred]

Top of it's game? The Wii's sales have plateaued, and game sales have gone down. As long as they are backwards compatible, I can't see this as anything but a good move. It'll cannibalize a few sales this Christmas, but they can't be counting on too many there anyway.

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because developers are far to dumb to make tools to resize textures, they instead pay artists through the nose to redraw them at a lower resolutions. <rolls eyes>

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[Anonymous Coward]

Doubtful.

The Wii will have been out for 6 years when this console is released. This is longer than the space between the CG and the Wii, IIRC, and the same as the space between the PS2 and PS3.

I think for a device as "underpowered" as the Wii when compared to the PS3 and 360, it is a reasonable time frame for a new console. I think that Nintendo also sees that "casual gamers" are not as willing as "core gamers" to pay $60 frequently for new titles, and is trying to design their new console around this.

As far as the 3DS: It seems to be a great device, and is backwards compatible with original DS games. It is a significant improvement over the previous handheld in terms of features and power.

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[Daetrin]

Just to elaborate on your already Insightful comment, the "top of its game" is pretty much the right point to announce a successor for any kind of electronics. By definition, once you've reached the "top of your game," it's all downhill from there. You've got to be careful to measure "your game" correctly so you can catch the "good" part of the downhill slope before the actual release, but you never want to wait so long that the old version clearly sucks now. You want people saying "the old one was great, i think i want the new one" not "Well finally! The old one used to be great, but it's been kinda crap for awhile now."

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[WillAdams]

Yes, but doesn't the effort to create such tools add to the costs of developing the Wii version?

Maybe you know developers who will knock out such code for free, but I don't believe that that sort of thing works at the accounting depts. at major game developers.

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[xhrit]

Also, there were the so called "ps2.5" games like Shining Force EXA that came out at the end of the ps2's lifespan. They were developed to target the new hardware but released for the old system. EXA was a ps2 game but put so many mobs on the screen it ran like total shit on the ps2, suffering huge slow downs in almost every fight. The game works like a dream on the ps3 tho.

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[captjc]

There is a reason the most Wii ports are based off of PS2 or PSP ports. In many cases, they do actually have artists redo the graphics and have utilize more simple game play.

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[drinkypoo]

So the only question left is whether the initial leak was intentional. If so it's viral marketing as usual. If not then this is an unusually pragmatic move for Nintendo to simply preempt any further leakage with an announcement. It gives them a chance to make a proactive statement about how great they are, which is pretty much all it was anyway.

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[Millennium]

You're the same sort of wanker who whined about the SNES being superseded, aren't you?

No, I just want my systems to provide meaningful improvement in each generation: something graphics alone, and hardware power in general, cannot provide.

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[Millennium]

I thought you trusted that Nintendo didn't release hardware just for the sake of releasing hardware.

I did. Unfortunately, Nintendo has done much to disillusion me in the last year or so.

The 3DS is a speed bump, but does add 3D, a gyro from the wiimote tech and a pedometer from the pokewalker.

3D and the pedometer fall squarely into the gimmick category: nifty gee-whiz novelties, but not capable of improving games. Likewise for the speed bump. The gyro might have been another story if it weren't clearly an afterthought, and the same goes for the AR system.

Re:Well, there goes Nintendo...

[hkmwbz]

Sales are down because Nintendo dropped the ball. They stopped making big sellers like Wii Sports and New Super Mario, and produced turds like Metroid: Other M instead.

Easy

[lennier1]

The Wii is basically two Gamecubes duct taped together.
Following that logic next year's consoles will be two Wiis combined?

Re:Easy

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but will it run linux?

*ducks*

Re:Easy

[__aaqvdr516]

No I don't want to come play with your WiiWii.

*Bows head in shame for the lame joke*

Sign me up for one of these.

Re:Easy

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

The Wii is basically two Gamecubes duct taped together.

Oh wow, I had forgotten about that silly attempt to discredit the Wii. Blast from the past!

Re:Easy

[lennier1]

And if yes, for how long? ;)

Re:Easy

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry you got moderated as flamebait buddy. I love my Wii, but it really is just two GC's in a new package. Of course, many of the comments on here come down to people just wanting 1080p from their Wii's, so if the Stream really is just two Wii's, then that will be enough for most.

Re:Easy

[Anonymous Coward]

hmm... and the new name shall be WiiWii....

No details, but...

[Daetrin]

They may not have confirmed any details, but this gives a lot more credit to the rumors that were going around earlier. The internet seems to have gotten pretty good at confirming stuff like this. Certainly _most_ of the rumors around the announcement of the PSP2 and 3DS turned out to be on target. "Back in the day" you'd barely hear anything about new hardware before E3 or TGS. Now rumors start hitting the internet months early and whoever it is usually breaks down and releases a bare bones press release confirming the existence but saving the details until the next big trade show. It _almost_ makes me feel a little sad that we don't get the same big surprises anymore. You get more fun during the speculation period, but the "big reveal" is just a matter of going down the list and seeing which 90% of the rumors were correct and which 10% were false.

This casual console gamer says, eh...

[jzarling]

...I'll upgrade eventually, if they want my coin quicker it will need to output to HDMI, and even then I will probably wait for the first price break. I don't game like i used to so it works for me at this point.

If I had one complaint - its more directed at EA Sports - I would like to use the classic controllers on Madden.

Re:This casual console gamer says, eh...

[Belial6]

At this point, there is little point in supporting any other output than HDMI. $100 monitors support it. All new TVs support it.

More interesting would be if they went back to solid state for distributing games. I hacked my Wiis because while I am find with optical media as my master copy, I don't use optical media for daily use. It is unsuitable for that purpose. With the price of SD cards these days, they could make SD the standard media format, and if they built the system to support USB SD card readers, it would remove much of the need for hacking the system, as being able to have a dozen carts left plugged into your system would largely eliminate the hassle of disk swapping, and SD cards would remove the concern over scratching disks.

It would also future proof against any size restrictions. Just ship 2 SD cards, and if things get really big, ship one SD card for authorization, and a USB hard drive for all of the data.

You're ignoring the most important part!

[93 Escort Wagon]

The announcement was light on details, but this caught my eye...

the system's rumored codename, "Project Cafe," hints at its ability to shoot a cappuccino directly into your gaping mouth.

It's about time someone in the console industry started paying attention to their adult customers!

Re:You're ignoring the most important part!

[steelfood]

It's about time someone in the console industry started paying attention to their adult customers!

You didn't think the wiimote was designed to be shaped the way it is just because it looked nice, did you?

Re:You're ignoring the most important part!

[Chowderbags]

Not to be confused with "adult industry" customers, who get an entirely different substance shot into their gaping mouth.

New Name?

[Anonymous Coward]

So will people start asking their buddies to come over and play with their WiiWii?

Re:New Name?

[Megahard]

Since this is version 2 maybe it will be called Poo.

Re:New Name?

[Ksevio]

Or they could use lowercase roman numerals and call it the Wiiii

Re:New Name?

[TheRaven64]

Uh, that would be Wiv.

Re:New Name?

[Ksevio]

No, it's the second version of the Wii
[Wii][ii]

oh man

[Charliemopps]

My WII 1 is still on back order, this sucks.

Cry more and let slip the dogs of hipocracy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Emulating retail systems is piracy

You're no less guilty for your copy of Excitebike in ROM form. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement - it has nothing to do whether something is available or not through retail channels.

Re:Cry more and let slip the dogs of hipocracy.

[thetoadwarrior]

Of course but but it's about having some decency. You're not depriving anyone of any income by developing a Atari 2600 emulator but if you emulate a system that is for sale it would be very naive to think everyone that uses it will be buying the games.

Derp?

[Anonymous Coward]

more specifications at the E3 Expo

E3 = Electronic Entertainment Expo

E3 Expo = Electronic Entertainment Expo Expo?

Re:Derp?

[spire3661]

Shut up or ill use your PIN number at the ATM machine.

Shaders

[sourcerror]

It's not just texture resolution, Wii-s lack programmable shaders too.And you have to reduce polycount as well. (Can't be automated for animated objects.)

Tubgirl

[sourcerror]

Then they would have called it Project tubgirl.

Naming thread

[Anonymous Coward]

So what'll it be? Suggestions so far:
  * WiiTuu
  * Puu
  * SuperWii
  * WooWii
  * Stream
  * WiiNii
  * Wiii
  * KiWii (recognises your movement without a mote)
  * WiiKi (allows you to edit content)
  * Wii HD (for Hard Drive)
  * Wii B (goes to E for future generations)
  * WiiPlus (can't wait for WiiPlus Fit Plus)
  * Wii++ (this is /. after all)

Re:Naming thread

[amliebsch]

WWii - Don't Mention The Wii

You are going to be waiting a while.

[dstyle5]

Nintendo's first party games don't end up in the bargain bin. I waited for Metroid Prime 2 for the Cube to drop after the Wii came out and it never happened. They just keep them at full price on the shelves until someone eventually buys them.

Re:You are going to be waiting a while.

[Jiro]

Wii had Metroid Prime Trilogy, which amounts to relatively low prices per game, even though they're not sold individually.

Gamecube games not going down in price are an exception to the usual rule anwyay because Gamecube games run on the Wii without any hassle. Whether Wii games are discounted will probably depend on whether the Wii successor is backwards compatible.

The new name?

[operagost]

They also released the new name, which will tentatively be, "Poop".

Re:The new name?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

They also released the new name, which will tentatively be, "Poop".

Surely you can do better than that.

How about.. a mutli-player oriented successor named Wii2P.

Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

Neither Sony nor Microsoft has breathed a word about a substantive upgrade to their console offerings. By substantive, I mean memory, processor and graphics competitive with a modern PC. Why the silence? In my opinion, because it cannot be done economically. Both Sony and Microsoft currently sit deep in a multibillion dollar hole of losses from the current generation fiasco. How can either justify a new cycle of hardware engineering, manufacturing engineering, SDK development and product promotion? Another round of impossible engineering choices trying to stuff PC class hardware into a consumer electronics form factor? It is anybody's guess whether either will attempt it, but this is sure: neither is anywhere close to taking the plunge. Game publishers and developers have heard nothing but silence in regards to possible specs of a follow on high end console generation. This strengthens my belief that the high end console has died and will not rise again. Cutesy and cheap like Nintendo is the only economically viable choice for a console vendor today.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Kinect and PS Move were substantial console upgrades, they just didn't convince developers to really take advantage of them yet.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[amliebsch]

Why the silence? In my opinion, because it cannot be done economically.

In my opinion, that's silly. First, your assumption is wrong: "high-end" consoles do not use off-the-shelf PC components. Second, there is no evidence that stuffing PC components into a "consumer" form factor is a matter of "impossible" engineering choices - small form factor computers and laptops already exist with quite a bit of power at a reasonable price. Finally, there is a far more logical reason why they would stay mum about their next release cycle (after all, assuming you were correct, they may as well commit to selling the current platform for the forseeable future, no?): they simply don't want to give the competition too much of a chance to "one up" their specifications.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[danomac]

They (Sony & Microsoft) may not have announced anything, but it's asinine to think that they haven't already gone through engineering and R&D processes. They are likely experimenting now, and waiting for the price of hardware to come down. I've played a few recent games and the graphics seem to look better and better every year.

I suspect in the Xbox's case the limited size of the medium (DVD discs) will become a factor before CPU and video will.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they designed a system to last 10 years, not something that would become obsolete in 5 years.

Also it will be interesting to see how Nintendo could get away with offering a $300+ game console at a time when PS3 and Xbox360 hit the $200 mark. I doubt Nintendo will do much to offer better graphics or capabilities then those systems so perhaps people are not going to be interested in buying a $300 HD Wii with a few gimmicky add-ons.

I think all Nintendo's new game console will do is to wake Sony and Microsoft and have them start their next gen development, but I don't think either companies are worried about it. There are more Xbox'es and PS3's then there are Wii's out their, so they know their market is strong enough to support real gamers. But Sony and Microsoft are committed to real next gen systems, while Nintendo might actually match current gen consoles for features and performance, so it will take more then a year to announce and develop a next generation system.

The biggest problem now is that when Nintendo shows their cards too early, Sony and Microsoft are going to pay attention and add those features, but also offer features and performance that appeal to casual and hard core gamers alike. This could be Nintendo's biggest mistake yet, but it is obvious they have to do something first because they cannot wait another 3 - 4 years like Sony and Microsoft can.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Anonymous Coward]

http://mygaming.co.za/news/news/10523-Microsoft-hiring-for-next-gen-Xbox-development.html

Microsoft has an answer

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[brkello]

They aren't talking about it because the systems are profitable now and they want this cycle to last as long as possible. If you don't think they are developing a new console right now, you are wrong. These things take years and I have no doubt they are working on the next system in case their competitor announces they have something new. Also, you don't announce you are making something because it drives down sales of your current product.
 
Your belief is incorrect. High end consoles will still be what Sony and MS will pursue. They will just require having a longer life cycle to make up for the initial loss they take for selling the hardware cheap. I predict Nintendo will not repeat the level of success they had with the Wii. Most casuals are just going to keep using the Wii since they buy so few games anyways. A lot of people also realized that the whole motion control thing isn't all that great compared to a traditional controller. While Nintendo has increased its fans and won't do as poorly as they did with the Gamecube, I think they peaked with this generation and it will be a few more cycles before they can do it again.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Anonymous Coward]

While you can generate hype with an announcement you also risk grinding all console sales to a halt. How many people are going to buy new PS3s or Xbox 360s knowing a new version would be out in a year?

In the case of the Wii, their potential market is already saturated with Wii consoles and less damage will be done.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Neither Sony nor Microsoft need to offer a substantive upgrade in response to Nintendo's revelation. Both console makers are working behind the scenes, and likely have since releasing the current generation. Epic recently demoed an idea of what the Unreal 4 Engine will look like. Both id Tech 5 and Cryengine 3 are fresh technologies that have yet to be fully exploited, and Valve likely has something up their sleeve to replace the aging Source Engine.

Big-budget, titles, such as Call of Duty, are a billion-dollar industry. They love consoles, because of the real and perceived advantages related to development, DLC options, and anti-piracy measures. Beyond the demands of these developers, there is a huge impetus to continue pushing for faster and more powerful hardware, since the goal has changed from higher polycounts to superior detail rendering, especially in lighting, and ease of development from the artistic side of things.

Sony and MS aren't releasing new consoles today because 1) they have to recoup the costs that they ate at launch, and 2) there's still plenty of life left in the consoles. The original PS2, as others noted, had games released for it last year. The "new" engines I mentioned above (except possibly for U4) will run on today's hardware. The engines that follow probably won't, but they might not show up for years still. So instead they're probably looking at predicted advances in tech and manufacturing, and weighing their options. You know, making sensible business decisions before moving on ahead. Because they will.

Arguing about the economic difficulties in a billion-dollar nascent industry, with companies that are willing to eat a huge initial lost for long-term gains, on a site that routinely invokes Moore's Law, is a ridiculous stance to take.

+++

As an aside, I'd like to voice my doubts to the predictions that Nintendo's offering will be as powerful as a 360 or PS3. My understanding is that the latter two consoles still aren't especially profitable (although they are profitable), and Nintendo's focus seems to be making money hand over fist. I'm more likely to believe the idea of a small touchscreen controller, with comparatively underpowered (but still capable) hardware, which will attract developers with its possibilities, but still remain profitable despite being at a lower price point than the competition.

I could be utterly wrong, but Nintendo really hasn't been pushing on specs for a couple cycles now, and they're freaking rich.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Anonymous Coward]

This just is not true.
Xbox 360 is a real money spinner for Microsoft. Console makers don't make much money on the hardware but from games, licenses and subscriptions. It follows the printer/ink model.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

First, your assumption is wrong: "high-end" consoles do not use off-the-shelf PC components.

Disagree. The vast majority of components in both PS3 and Xbox are off the shelf, ranging from hard drive to USB support chips. Main components such as graphics chips are only slightly modified off the shelf PC components. Both flavors of Cell processor are only slightly customized from IBM's other Cell offerings. Sony's vector units are the only major components you could call nonstandard and even they are standard Cell components, just not commonly used. And look at what a disaster that was for Sony in terms of convincing developers to expend significant resources designing around the quirky vector units.

Without making a detailed list I would say that the proportion of standard components increased greatly in Sony's latest generation and stayed nearly the same in Microsoft's - XBox 1 started off with nearly all PC components. This was of necessity. Even an international megacorp can no longer custom engineer every component of a modern computer, and that is exactly what a high end console is trying to be.

Well, too bad you aren't in a position to decide what Sony or Microsoft will do next. I wish you were, I am really enjoying the show my ringside seat on this epic fail.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

They (Sony & Microsoft) may not have announced anything, but it's asinine to think that they haven't already gone through engineering and R&D processes. They are likely experimenting now, and waiting for the price of hardware to come down.

So you think they both have highly secret engineering projects at an advanced state? Let me break it to you: we would have heard about it, this is the age of the leak. I say, this silence is the sound of moratorium imposed by corporate beancounters.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

Because they designed a system to last 10 years, not something that would become obsolete in 5 years.

Ahem, both consoles are already obsolete and it is not even 5 years yet.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

http://mygaming.co.za/news/news/10523-Microsoft-hiring-for-next-gen-Xbox-development.html

Microsoft has an answer

Why yes they do, the answer is "we have not yet begun to engineer" and they mean it.

By the way, the top engineers like Seamus Blackley they signed up for the original Xbox walked out long ago and aren't coming back. Nice move. With its "highly compelling" work environment, Microsoft manages to put itself in a position where it has to rebuild its engineering department from scratch each generation, the previous gang variously having walked out the door holding their noses, or being pushed. Bungee has walked and signed with Blizzard. Goodbye most important franchise, now what?

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

While Sony and Microsoft pursue their high end vanity projects (not at all clear either will escape the axe before making it out of concept stage) the market is massively migrating to smartphone and netpad gaming. Believe it.

In the post-PC gaming world, only the cheap will prosper. Hard core gamers will move back to the PC. Don't believe me, believe all the formerly exclusive console franchises that walked out on "sonysoft" over the last few years with no replacement in sight.

The age of the high end game console is over, I am sure of that.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

Epic recently demoed an idea of what the Unreal 4 Engine will look like. Both id Tech 5 and Cryengine 3 are fresh technologies that have yet to be fully exploited, and Valve likely has something up their sleeve to replace the aging Source Engine.

These are all PC technologies, with console ports as a watered down afterthought. Also, note John Carmack's port of Tech 5 to the iPhone. I do not imagine Android is far behind. That is where the future of the game market lies, not with dinosaur consoles.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

Well, 9 replies to me all disagreeing and all with doubtful arguments. I guess I'm right then.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

While you can generate hype with an announcement you also risk grinding all console sales to a halt. How many people are going to buy new PS3s or Xbox 360s knowing a new version would be out in a year?

A lot, or do you not recall that PS2 outsold PS3 for many months after PS3 was released. Nice try.

In the case of the Wii, their potential market is already saturated with Wii consoles and less damage will be done

Whoops, did you already forget that TFA is about Nintendo's plans to release a new generation in 2012 when Sony and Microsoft will still be thinking about the idea in general terms and trying to justify to their bean counters the concept of peeing away another few billion in vanity money, this time both of them having lost their exclusive franchises?

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

While you can generate hype with an announcement you also risk grinding all console sales to a halt. How many people are going to buy new PS3s or Xbox 360s knowing a new version would be out in a year?

A lot, or do you not recall that PS2 outsold PS3 for many months after PS3 was released. Nice try.

In the case of the Wii, their potential market is already saturated with Wii consoles and less damage will be done

Whoops, did you already forget that TFA is about Nintendo's plans to release a new generation in 2012 when Sony and Microsoft will still be thinking about the idea in general terms and trying to justify to their bean counters the concept of peeing away another few billion in vanity money, this time both of them having lost their exclusive franchises?

Whoops, sorry, I should have said simply: so you argue that Nintendo's market is already saturated while sonysoft's is not, and that means a good idea for Nintendo is a stupid idea for sonysoft? Sorry, Nintendo is still selling 120,000 consoles a week, I do not think that the word "saturated" means what you think it does.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[bloodhawk]

the market is massively migrating to smartphone and netpad gaming. Believe it.

NO it isn't, the smartphone/netpad market is a completely seperate market, As is completely evident by all 3 consoles having one of the best years ever in the last 12 months and this generation of consoles being far and away the best selling ever. No one wants to replace playing a game on a 60 inch plasma with a smartphone, not to mention a smartphone isn't even price competitive with them.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[benhattman]

Finally, there is a far more logical reason why they would stay mum about their next release cycle (after all, assuming you were correct, they may as well commit to selling the current platform for the forseeable future, no?): they simply don't want to give the competition too much of a chance to "one up" their specifications.

No, the most logical reason for withholding announcements is that once you announce your next console people who are thinking about buying the current one will wait.There are, of course, other good reasons why they might be withholding information about their next consoles.

1) They just released major mid-life input upgrades. A new announcement might detract from developers using these new inputs.
2) They have too much sunk cost in this generation and need more time to amortize development costs.
3) Maybe they have no real clue what the next console will look like. In 2003 you could announce a console with nearly the same controller as the last one, but way more power and you'd be good. Today, you have to actually anticipate what new gaming features your competitors will include.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[crhylove]

Not to mention everybody is just playing sudoku and angry birds on their android. LOL

Console gaming is a giant scam. Computers are way better for every type of game. These corporations are just trying to thwart piracy and force an upgrade cycle indefinitely. It's ridiculous that anybody gives them money.

Even more amusing is that I have not played a SINGLE game on a ps3 or xbox 3shitty that is half as much fun as most of the wiiware titles, which are again half as fun as the premier wii titles like mario kart and new super mario brothers.

Those two games are excellent by the way, and also run perfectly in the wii emulator Dolphin if you have a decent computer wiimotes, and bluetooth.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Both Sony and Microsoft currently sit deep in a multibillion dollar hole of losses from the current generation fiasco.

Xbox has been profitable for several years now.

Windows revenue down, but Xbox profits soar

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[snuf23]

"Both flavors of Cell processor are only slightly customized from IBM's other Cell offerings."

I think the word you are looking for is Power, not Cell. The SPE processors and interconnect bus were the big difference in the Cell architecture. The CPU in Cell and the Xenon chip are Power architecture as for that matter is the Wii's CPU.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

No one wants to replace playing a game on a 60 inch plasma with a smartphone, not to mention a smartphone isn't even price competitive with them.

Your mistake is to assume that everyone wants to play games sitting on the sofa in front of a TV. Hard core, maybe, but hard core is a minority of the market.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

Xbox has been profitable for several years now.

The refrain sung over and over by die hard fanbois, ignoring the fact that the overall finances of the XBox venture from start to finish are a deep, dark, ugly hole. And now the XBox 360 is obsolete and needs to be replaced, long before coming even close to breaking even.

Now, please don't try to redefine the meaning of "break even" on me.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

Xbox has been profitable for several years now.

A man named Pyrrhus put it best: "one more victory like that and I am finished".

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

Not to mention everybody is just playing sudoku and angry birds on their android.

Don't forget Plants vs Zombies.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

Xbox 360 is a real money spinner for Microsoft.

Only if you ignore the $8 billion spent to buy that not very impressive revenue stream. But hey, Microsoft is rapidly going down the tubes as an OS provider anyway, might as well just keep on shrinking down to the size of a console company selling obsolete hardware and boring games.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Anonymous Coward]

While Sony has burned all of the profits of the previous two generations combined on the PS3, and has painted themselves into a corner architecturally, MS has been making tidy profits for some years now. From hardware, software and online.

MS also has the luxury of an easily scalable architecture: Having shrunk their current xbox 360 to a single package, MS could easily just add RAM/cpu cores/graphics shaders using the same process and scale up the platform to service the next gen.

I believe this is what MS was trying with the original Xbox, until Intel/Nvidia tried to burn them. MS now owns the 360 silicon, so they can easily move ahead with it. Pretty smart as developers will easily move to the new platform, possibly adding scaling features for original 360 usage a'la PC gaming.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

The hole Microsoft dug for itself is several billion dollars deeper than the one Sony dug for itself. Sony also now makes a modest profit on PS3, just like Microsoft. That in no way changes that fact that for both of them, the whole adventure was a complete disaster as a business proposition. No sane person would ever do a deal like that, the inevitable conclusion is that both Sony and Microsoft are run by insane egomaniacs.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you need to look at your figures. While MS burned a lot of cash on the initial Xbox, the 360 in isolation has been a success with MS making an estimated $1B just from xbox live.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Daniel Phillips]

Microsoft took $6-8 billion in losses on xbox 360 before starting to make a modest profit. Bad business by any normal measure, and now the hardware is long in the tooth and the major exclusives have walked out the door. Why do I need to keep restating these simple facts? I feel like I am talking to cultists. Oh wait, I probably am.

Not that I care whether Microsoft decides to continue this idiocy or not, in fact I hope they do, they deserve it.

Re:Sony and Microsoft have no answer

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have a cite for that, you pulled it out of your ass.

LOZ: Ocarina for GameCube

[tepples]

Doubutsu no Mori was source-ported to GameCube as Doubutsu no Mori +, which became Animal Crossing outside Japan. But source ports don't count. More relevant is The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time/Master Quest, which was emulated on GameCube with some minor changes (e.g. Z targeting to L targeting).

To watch 3D, do you really need a 3D TV?

[Nexusone1984]

Maybe I am wrong, but why can not 3D HD TV be done through the new Wii it's self on non 3D TV's?

As for that why can not a normal LCD HD TV be upgraded to 3D with a external box, or why do they no offer it in the DVD/Blue ray players?

I know 3D TV merely a gimmick to keep the price of HD TV's higher for a few dollars worth of extra components.

make it HD....but keep it cheap

[schlachter]

Nintendo. Keep the system cheap. $250.
Make it support HD. Make it run silent and efficient.
No optical media. SD card games only. Currently...4GB cards are $5.00 / 8GB cards are $8.00 online. Prices will only continue to drop.
Support robust online play.

Re:make it HD....but keep it cheap

[grumbel]

Prices will only continue to drop.

While size increase is almost certain, price drop really is not. The low end prices for most technology stays pretty constant over the years.

Internet multiplayer, downloadable content?

[edmicman]

Will it actually make use of the Internet connection it has? First, their browser could have been at the forefront of living room web browsing. But it sucks. Flash support on it sucks. And I'm pretty sure it's not even updated or being worked on any more. Then you've got the plethora of games that would (could? should?) have online multiplayer or downloadable updates available, but don't. I really like multiplayer trivia games, especially with people over. Trivial Pursuit even looks like it has support to add new questions, but that was never available on the Wii. I just found out You Don't Know Jack is available on the Wii now. But the Wii version doesn't support online multiplayer or additional content - even though the XBOX version does! Why?!?

Re:To watch 3D, do you really need a 3D TV?

[FrostDust]

The current iteration of 3D requires special hardware built into the TV, along with the special glasses.

You could accomplish the 50's, blue-and-red-glasses 3D on any viewing device, but that's quite inferior to the new system.

What's in a name?

[jwill7g9]

I think they should call it the P-NES.

Re:To watch 3D, do you really need a 3D TV?

[witherstaff]

They could do something like this older hack, but still neat - 3d with a wii. It'd be like the single player tracking games at the arcade. Not sure how viable this would be but for shooters it'd be great. Like the old thief games and slowly leaning to the side to get a shot.

So... What will it be called?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wiiii?

Launch vs. get

[blake182]

So if they "launch" in 2012, that means I can order one on Amazon in what, 2014?

metroid via r700 w/ a n64 controller

[Anonymous Coward]

id pay for a new system for that.

and if they had a new killer instinct...

yay

[hoota]

Sweet as... bout time ninendo released another system.

You are absolutely wrong.

[hardboiled.tequila]

You are absolutely wrong.

One and a half Gamecubes, at most.

Nintendo wii2 will just be wii 1 with HD

[Anonymous Coward]

Well Nintendo wii 2 will just be the wii with HD. The sad thing was when they demoed the wii when it first came out it was the gamecube with the wii motion built into it. I will be supprised if nintendo brings out a sleek hardware device. I think nintendo should pack it in because gaming consoles are becoming obsolete. More and more people are creating games for the mobile platform devices. It would be great if Apple buys out Nintendo.

The usual song and dance...

[camazotz]

Okay, so first I think, "Okay, maybe I won't by a fourth XBox 360 after the last three RRODed, and maybe I won't get a PS3 since apparently playing online is for losers and people with access to a functional PSN, I'll hold out for a Project Cafe thingie instead. Then I'll find out that its going to involve a bunch of motion-sensor games aimed at the facebook casual crowd. Then I'll see the official software lineup and notice that it caters entirely to kids and adults who somehow think that innovation means Mario's mushrooms are in 3D. And then I'll go upgrade my PC and be done with it.