Last Typewriter Factory in the World Shuts Its Doors

SEWilco pointed out that the last typewriter factory has shut its doors. Indian typewriter manufacturer Godrej and Boyce stopped production today after 60 years. The company's general manager, Milind Dukle, says, "We are not getting many orders now. From the early 2000s onwards, computers started dominating. All the manufacturers of office typewriters stopped production, except us."

Comments

This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

Brother still makes and sells typewriters. This is just bad reporting by The Atlantic, which has REALLY gone down hill since it changed hands.

I assume that this is the last *manual* typewriter factory.

Re:This is just not true

[UnknowingFool]

Yes. Also the company is not shutting down. It is merely selling the last 500 manual typewriters and focusing on its other products. It also stopped making them in 2009.

Re:This is just not true

[MarkGriz]

I assume that this is the last *manual* typewriter factory.

Nope. Someone posted this comment there:

This article is NOT correct. I am with Royal Consumer Information Products in Somerset, NJ. We have been making typewrithers for over 100 years. We are still making both manual and electronic typewriters and we have no plans to discontinue them! True, the market size is small in comparison to what it once was but there is still a steady demand for both types of typewriters.

So, it appears to be a crap story. Moreover, WTF does this have to do with news for nerds

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

I assume that this is the last *manual* typewriter factory.

Gotta be. There's still a fairly significant (captive) market for typewriters in prisons that continues to be met:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:walkenhorsts.com+typewriter
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:https://www.accesscatalog.com/+typewriter

(Though looks like they're mostly Swintec these days. E.g., http://www.swintec.com/clear-typewriters/21-2410cc-michigan.html)

We used to have to have specific manual typewriters (no built-in memory or spell-check) for law school exams, though that pretty much died off when ExamSoft (http://www.examsoft.com/main/index.php) became commonplace. I can't even remember the last time I saw a typewriter being used, though there are still a few sprinkled around the office...

Re:This is just not true

[SteeldrivingJon]

"Moreover, WTF does this have to do with news for nerds"

Interest in typewriters is pretty nerdy.

But even nerdier, there are still people hacking typewriters into USB keyboards and such, or doing Arduino hacks, etc.

Re:This is just not true

[Insightfill]

We have been making typewrithers for over 100 years.

Apparently, not very good ones.

Re:This is just not true

[mariox19]

I took a look at the Royal Consumer Information Products site, and it seems like they're either no longer selling manual typewriters or are currently out of them, with no word as to when they'll have them back in stock.

Re:This is just not true

[WiglyWorm]

I'm pretty sure it's safe to presume they didn't use a typewriter to post to the message board.

Re:This is just not true

[Blakey Rat]

I tried to post a correction to the Seattle PI when they picked up this bullshit story, and they didn't publish it. Then Neatorama picked up the same bullshit story, but at least there I could leave a comment saying it was bullshit. (Actually, I just checked back-- looked like Neatorama pulled it. So there's one success story, I guess.)

Is there anybody in news who fact-checks before republishing? This is just embarrassing, for the Atlantic, the Seattle PI, and every other paper that's copy-and-pasted this non-story.

Re:This is just not true

[DrMaurer]

Where there is still a need to have a handwritten/typed form and a computer cannot do it, then I would imagine a typewriter could suffice. Government-regulated industries (such as pharma) might have one or two for whatever due to validation and other such reasons.

Re:This is just not true

[NJRoadfan]

Swintec still makes them too, although they primarily do government sales: http://www.swintec.com/

Yes they are expensive, but they seem to be well built.

Re:This is just not true

[obergfellja]

manual typewriters use to be jammin... jammin to the end of the night. it is now gone (from the new realm).

Re:This is just not true

[j00r0m4nc3r]

WTF does this have to do with news for nerds

Well if you don't know, then you're clearly not nerdy enough.

Re:This is just not true

[LWATCDR]

Actually typewriters are more Tragic Hipster or Steampunk IMHO.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like some nerds try using a Sinclair Spectrum with cassette drive now, some will try typing their thesis using a typewriter.

Re:This is just not true

[SteeldrivingJon]

Okay, I'll give you that.

Re:This is just not true

[nschubach]

So, Steampunk is not nerdy?

Re:This is just not true

[flappinbooger]

There is still a demand for typewriters - For instance, I know that some law enforcement organizations need to type things onto cards. Also certain insurance agents type things onto cards.

These things break, they get dropped, they are simple and generally built to a price.. No-one knows how to or wants to repair them - with the exception of one wholesaler I dealt with, Carolina Wholesale. They sell typewriters and also can repair them. The demand is low, sure, but if you look you will see typewriters out there.

Re:This is just not true

[Darinbob]

Please turn in your nerd card.

Re:This is just not true

[Darinbob]

Actually, I've always wanted to take one of the older typewriters (pre-plastic) and make a replica of the computers from the movie Brazil. Arduino would help there, but using Arduino would remove most of the nerd factor.

Re:This is just not true

[Ol Biscuitbarrel]

You would have to have non-anachronistic material holding the bridge of your glasses/goggles/pince-nez together. No adhesive tape; gutta percha dosed with hide glue?

Would like to know more about Tragic Hipsters, too. Google Images shows the cover of a Nick Drake LP. Weren't the Tragically Hip an 80s indie band?

Re:This is just not true

[Darinbob]

Facts? Who needs facts with the New Media? Are you trying to slow down the march of progress?

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

Amongst the myriad definitions of hack(s)(ing) are writ(er)(ers)(ing). Within that group also fell those who hid their portable typewriters away in the basement etc while researching.

Re:This is just not true

[LWATCDR]

Tragic Hipster. Someone riding a fixed gear bike while wearing a backpack that costs more than $100 filled with Pabst Blue Ribbon beer.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

Not so easy to backspace on a typewriter. Maybe he just ran out of that white correction tape ribbon thing. I must have been about 9 last time I had to do that.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, the whole point of the story is to invoke a (false) emotional response. Nostalgia, outrage, etc. The truth is beside the point, the writers know it and they know enough of their audience enjoy reading this 'news'. Injecting lies into public discourse also serves to keep people talking about bullshit and worried about their status rather than concentrating on financial corruption and greater fraud.

Re:This is just not true

[Culture20]

Back when Doom first came out, my brother's computer couldn't handle the game except when it was super-tiny. So we used an Armitron to hold up a plastic, rectangular magnifying glass, like in Brazil.

Re:This is just not true

[MoonBuggy]

I spent a few minutes clicking around on the site, and I'm intrigued by a few things: the first is that there's a market for typewriters for use by prison inmates, the second is that the different versions (marked for different states) appear to vary only in memory size, and the listings state that "Memory sizes greater than those permitted in any specific correctional facility will be rejected at the facility property room.".

Anyone know enough to elaborate on that? I can imagine situations where a typewriter would be allowable but a computer wouldn't, I guess, but I can't fathom what the memory limit is about.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I'm sure that this user--like myself--is one of a small enthusiast sect that only interfaces with these newfangled computer gadgets by typing on an old fashioned mechanical typewriter, then scanning the characters in and using OCR to provide text for copy and paste.
 
Sure, it sounds a little bit different but at least we don't use Morse code over telegraph and a series of relays to input our text into a bank of vacuum tubes that is then loaded via parallel port over ICA expansion cards, then relayed via token ring network to a box connected to the internet.
 
Man, those guys are freaks.

Re:This is just not true

[AJH16]

Or if they did, it could be blamed on bad OCR.

Re:This is just not true

[rickb928]

Their typewriters are quite excellent, the equal of any.

However, their computer keyboads, made by someone else, and their personal typing skills, appear to be lacking somewhat.

So let them stick to making.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just bad reporting by The Atlantic, which has REALLY gone down hill since it changed hands.

Yup, amazing that the fact-checkers (ha!) couldn't be bothered to search for "typewriter" on Amazon. Brother, Olivetti, Panasonic, and a few others, and that's hardly a site dedicated to office supplies.

Re:This is just not true

[SteeldrivingJon]

You could use one of those 7" USB monitors for the display. You just need a big fresnel lens in front.

Re:This is just not true

[rubycodez]

Typewriters still have at least two important uses. One is for filling out duplicate/triplicate/quadruple pressure-sensitive forms that have to be done in either pen or typewriter (I had to do some a couple years back for a foreign government as part of immigration of relative).

The other important use is that some famous writers love them rather than computers for whatever reason, some authors that slashdotters like might be some of those people.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you high?

Re:This is just not true

[Zerth]

To limit the ability of inmates to pass notes using the internal storage of electric typewriters, same reason tape recorders(but not players) are frequently prohibited.

You only need one line to type "shiv jimmy in block 8", so I'm not sure why there is a specific limit instead of only permitting electric typewriters that clear on power down.

For that matter, you could just look at the ribbon and see what the last guy typed.

Re:This is just not true

[obergfellja]

I wish.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't bet on it - The Typewriter Keyboard

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

They did! Then they pulled the paper out, scanned it, and used OCR on the resulting document which they then cut and paste into the comments section.

Re:This is just not true

[sootman]

>> Brother still makes and sells typewriters.
> Also the company is not shutting down.
> It also stopped making them in 2009.

But other than that it's a pretty good article. :-)

Re:This is just not true

[MoonBuggy]

I hadn't thought of that, but it still doesn't really make sense. Not only the fact that (as you said) you don't need much to pass a note, but that the memory sizes were all of the order of tens of kB - several pages at least. Unless your prisoners are communicating by means of epic verse, that shouldn't be too onerous a limitation for them. Perhaps it's just a stupid rule, I suppose, but I would have hoped for more satisfying logic.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

Hah, little do you know. There's an app that listens to the sound of the keypress and the hammer strike and calculates the letter pressed using frequency / delay information. It then sends that character down the tubes to /. and eh voila - contributions from a manual typewriter.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

If you check their website you'll see that all they offer for sale are electric typewriters so...

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

For #1 - those forms are stupid. When typewriters go away, so will the forms.

For #2 - they'll get over it. If they haven't died by the time the last typewriter they are able to find stops functioning, that is.

So those aren't valid uses.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

And the typewriter spell checker is an extremely time consuming and labor intensive operation.

Re:This is just not true

[CrackedButter]

Hi, I'm Tom Hanks and I can breath a sign of relief.

Re:This is just not true

[rubycodez]

Those forms are required by various governments of planet earth, that have typewriter repair infrastructure in place. There are typewriter repair shops and parts and supplies available globally. Your reasoning is faulty, the typewriter will live on for decades, likely past our death.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

Fact checking costs money and yields pretty much nothing. Sure, corrections cost money too, but nobody reads them (and they mainly serve as publicity that one was wrong). Better to have one or two screaming nerds than to have a company admit being wrong.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF does this have to do with news for nerds

It's a complex (or seemingly complex) mechanical device whose conventions have carried over to modern day computing ... why do we still call it a carriage return instead of, say, cursor return?

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

Dictate post to secretary.

Secretary types memo.

Memo passed via pneumatic tube to time-share computer division.

Operator waits for available modem to log on and access the internet.

Memo is entered as as a forum post.

Memo returned via pneumatic tube to confirm posting.

Voila! Done.

Re:This is just not true

[Kral_Blbec]

No. Its just stupid.

Re:This is just not true

[CrackedButter]

In case nobody gets the reference, which I was sure somebody would, Tom Hanks is a Typewriter collector.

Re:This is just not true

[nurb432]

But even nerdier, there are still people hacking typewriters into USB keyboards and such, or doing Arduino hacks, etc.

Blasphemy

Re:This is just not true

[geekoid]

no it's not. However because being nerdy it trendy, now everything with a slight off beet interest is labeled nerdy.
Typewriters have been nerdy for 50 or more years.

Re:This is just not true

[geekoid]

no, using an Arduino INCREASES the nerd factor.

SHeeesh.

Re:This is just not true

[geekoid]

so what nest? a story about a tooth brush that a 'nerdy' author uses no longer being manufactured?

Re:This is just not true

[geekoid]

WTF? it's not nerdy, typewriters aren't nerdy, and the story is factually incorrect.

Nothing nerdy to see here, it should have been moved along.

Re:This is just not true

[ChrisMaple]

The typewrither sounds like a very interesting piece of technology, or maybe magic. I'd like to see one in action. Does the machine distort itself, or does the text change after it's written? If the latter, it would be of great use to politicians.

Re:This is just not true

[rubycodez]

I had a few more famous people in mind, maybe their opinion might mean something. History of authors and their typewriters is a fun subject.
,
First author to use typewriter was Samuel Clemens, or so he boasted of his Remington No. 2. Arthur C. Clarke ditched his in the 1982 for WordStar on a IBM XT with 5MB hard drive.

Re:This is just not true

[Billlagr]

Or even the whole QWERTY layout is a bad hangover..

Re:This is just not true

[Skuld-Chan]

Daisy Wheel printers and Dot Matrix printers do this - I spent several years helping accountants align okidata ml-320's to print on their 3 part forms.

I always grin when I see one of those in some shop :).

Re:This is just not true

[MichaelSmith]

Actually, I've always wanted to take one of the older typewriters (pre-plastic) and make a replica of the computers from the movie Brazil.

Its definitely been done and probably many times

Re:This is just not true

[Rubinstien]

Actually, typewriters are very interesting devices. I used to work on IBM Selectrics for the fun of it. I recently pitched my electric typewriters (had to move, and downsized my collection), but kept two old mechanical typewriters. One of the two is a mathematics typewriter, complete with a number of calculus symbols and other nifty glyphs. I had seen that before on the electrics with the daisy wheel or the type ball, but this is the only one I have seen with the symbols actually molded onto the keys and cast onto the type bars. It still works, too, though I had to re-ink the ribbon myself.

Re:This is just not true

[Ol Biscuitbarrel]

This fellow definitely built an ElectriClerk, for use in a Cthulhu themed live-action roleplaying game. Hrmm, is it wise to shake down an Elder God for its 27B-6? Other bloggers just seem to be linking to his work. Besides your man can't find any more Brazil inspired SP mods. Perhaps it's just too much work.

Re:This is just not true

[tbird81]

WTF? it's not nerdy, typewriters aren't nerdy, and the story is factually incorrect.

I knew it! Typewriters ARE cool! And to think my parents didn't let me take one to class!

I'm going back to high school and show those hot slutty girls my Brothers.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

everything with a slight off beet interest is labeled nerdy

Nothing worse than beets that are a bit off.

Re:This is just not true

[LynnwoodRooster]

No, they're perfectly fine for their target market of erotic story writhers...;)

Re:This is just not true

[tehcyder]

Actually typewriters are more Tragic Hipster or Steampunk IMHO.

If you define people by enough meaningless labels, everyone becomes their own tribe.

I'm reminded again of that Emo joke where he calls the would-be suicide a heretic and pushes him off the bridge.

Re:This is just not true

[tehcyder]

I hadn't thought of that, but it still doesn't really make sense. Not only the fact that (as you said) you don't need much to pass a note, but that the memory sizes were all of the order of tens of kB - several pages at least. Unless your prisoners are communicating by means of epic verse, that shouldn't be too onerous a limitation for them. Perhaps it's just a stupid rule, I suppose, but I would have hoped for more satisfying logic.

I imagine that the rule is "if it has more than x Mb of memory then it's a computer".

Re:This is just not true

[tehcyder]

For #1 - those forms are stupid. When typewriters go away, so will the forms.

For #2 - they'll get over it. If they haven't died by the time the last typewriter they are able to find stops functioning, that is.

So those aren't valid uses.

For #1 - they currently exist and need to be dealt with

For #2 - people still write with fountain pens, they're not going away any time soon, if writers prefer them why shouldn't they use them? A lot of photographers prefer to use film cameras for artistic reasons, just because most people use digital cameras doesn't mean there's no place for a classic old 10 x 9 plate camera.

Re:This is just not true

[Kamiza Ikioi]

It's only embarassing in the way that watching your drunk uncle fall down, yet again, into his own vomit is embarassing. The whole family is wondering how long traditional media will make it without rehab and a new liver.

This is just embarrassing, for the Atlantic, the Seattle PI, and every other paper that's copy-and-pasted this non-story.

Re:This is just not true

[tehcyder]

Arthur C. Clarke ditched his in the 1982 for WordStar on a IBM XT with 5MB hard drive.

What a flash git, most people in 1982 were still on floppy drives. If they were lucky enough to have a computer at all. But you try telling kids today that, they'll just laugh at you.

Re:This is just not true

[shitetaco]

WTF does this have to do with news for nerds

You've obviously never watched a veteran typewriter tech perform a PM on one of those beasts. Even though I was a sysadmin in charge of a school's worth of systems at a major US university, I watched, fascinated, as a greybeard put a Selectric through its paces-- adjusting this, oiling that. I decided right there that if I had been born 50 years earlier, that's what I'd be doing for a living.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

We have been making typewrithers for over 100 years.

Apparently, not very good ones.

We have been making typewrithers for over 100 years.

Apparently, not very good ones.

WIN

Re:This is just not true

[wiedzmin]

Electronic typewriters are the best - it's like a computer with direct I/O bus output to a printer, with no need for drivers or underlaying operating system. It's a tablet in reverse, technology of the future!

Re:This is just not true

[sznupi]

Figure out a way of forcing them to communicate in epic verse, plus this, ...and we're in business?

Re:This is just not true

[SuricouRaven]

https://www.royalsupplies.com/templates/searchnf.cfm?zq=65328103&globaldesc=na&rowstart=1&wherefrom=PICTURE&whichord=7649018&subclass=MAN&subname=Manual%20Typewriters&department=TYP&special=R&class=N&nextprev=0&nextrow=!&prevrow=ZZZZZZ&desc=na&globaldesc=na&uas=N&tokns=passed&pagename=Online%20Store%20%3E%20Typewriters%20Personal%20Typewriters%20%3E%20%20%3E%20Manual%20Typewriters

They may have made them up until very recently, but they arn't selling them any more.

Re:This is just not true

[rubycodez]

someone had a product that had internal scanner, you'd scan in the form, fill it in, and then impact print on it. I think was around 1987. I have an LQ-1500 and one ribbon left in foil package never opened, but haven't use the thing for at least 23 years.

Re:This is just not true

[Anonymous Coward]

There isn't a law office in the country that doesn't have one.

Re:This is just not true

[KingBenny]

mhm, has nerd come down to this ? dam that internet !

Re:This is just not true

[rubycodez]

$3000 for that hard drive in 1982, would be $5700 in today's money. Flash Git? He did build his career to that point on a Remington Noiseless Deluxe portable from the early 1940s, very successful and in his 60s by 1980, can't we let an old man enjoy the fruits of his lifelong labors?

Re:This is just not true

[1u3hr]

I assume that this is the last *manual* typewriter factory.

No.

Well, they may "mean" that, but it's not true either. There are several of those in China at least.

http://chinatypewriter.en.alibaba.com/

Shanghai Weilv Mechanism Company is one of the leading manufacturers of manual typewriter in China. Weilv is located in Lvxiang Industrial Zone, Southwest of Shanghai City. We own a factory covering an area of more than 3,000 square meters and about 70 professional workers.

We have a history of making typewriters of more than 10 years. For all the key parts, we imported from foreign countries to ensure the quality and endurance of our products. That is why we are one of the top 3 suppliers of manual/mechanical typewriters in China.

Harry Potter

[Dan East]

Guess means we won't be seeing any more Harry Potter books?

Re:Harry Potter

[jittles]

Don't worry, my typewriter repair business will never close. People will always need someone to fix their typewriters. Plus, I can't really afford to retire.

Re:Harry Potter

[ae1294]

Don't worry, my typewriter repair business will never close. People will always need someone to fix their typewriters. Plus, I can't really afford to retire.

I am looking for a Selectric model 251...

Re:Harry Potter

[93 Escort Wagon]

Guess means we won't be seeing any more Harry Potter books?

We can only hope...

Re:Harry Potter

[jittles]

I'm sorry but a selectric model 251 doesn't exist.

Re:Harry Potter

[paintballer1087]

+1 Fringe

Re:Harry Potter

[Anonymous Coward]

not in this universe...but in Walternate's universe the 251 was a very popular model

Fringe is such crap science and yet I cannot stop watching...very guilty pleasure

SO GUILTY I MUST POST AS ANON

Re:Harry Potter

[NJRoadfan]

nope, they went from 241 right to 261.

Re:Harry Potter

[rubycodez]

cool! ever fix Magnetic Tape Selectric or Magnetic Card Selectric?

Re:Harry Potter

[jittles]

I was just kidding. I don't actually repair typewriters. I was trying to be funny. Not my specialty. That's why I work in training simulations and not on comedy central.

Re:Harry Potter

[ebuck]

perhaps that's why he's still looking for it.

Anndddd..

[drewsup]

Nothing of value was lost...

Re:Anndddd..

[kimvette]

. . . until you need to deal with lots of forms where no PDF is available but you want to ensure the form is entirely legible, or when you need to complete a form with carbon copies.

For the former, geeks can scan in the form, import it into photoshop or gimp and rotate/align and crop it, then overlay text over the fields. Do you expect the typical administrative assistant to be able to do that?

There will always likely be some need for manual typewriters, and dot matrix printers as well for that matter.

Dot matrix printers: When it comes to debugging very poorly written undocumented spaghetti code (especially VB with goto abuse all over the place) nothing beats a wide dot matrix printer and tractor paper for making sense of spaghetti code because you can see all the code at once and trace through the spaghetti. A smart project manager would let you rewrite but you don't always have intelligent project managers.

Re:Anndddd..

[Kjella]

Dot matrix printers: When it comes to debugging very poorly written undocumented spaghetti code (especially VB with goto abuse all over the place) nothing beats a wide dot matrix printer and tractor paper for making sense of spaghetti code because you can see all the code at once and trace through the spaghetti.

My impression is that this is a different anti-pattern, one megafunction and tons of global state - no encapsulation or classes. Spaghetti code is typically recognized by massive and unstructured layers and calling, making it impossible to see where one code call goes like tracing one piece of spaghetti on a plate. A matrix printer won't do you any good because it's not linear at all.

Re:Anndddd..

[$RANDOMLUSER]

I see what you did there. Well played.

Re:Anndddd..

[Anonymous Coward]

. . . until you need to deal with lots of forms where no PDF is available but you want to ensure the form is entirely legible, or when you need to complete a form with carbon copies.

For the former, geeks can scan in the form, import it into photoshop or gimp and rotate/align and crop it, then overlay text over the fields. Do you expect the typical administrative assistant to be able to do that?

No, I don't expect the typical AA to be able to use tools like photoshop or gimp. However, long before we had scanners and the like, we were able to design very simple word documents that could be filled in and then printed on pre-printed stationary. Not that difficult to do, and something I'd expect anyone with some knowledge of office software to be able to figure out.

Re:Anndddd..

[jeffmeden]

. . . until you need to deal with lots of forms where no PDF is available but you want to ensure the form is entirely legible, or when you need to complete a form with carbon copies.

For the former, geeks can scan in the form, import it into photoshop or gimp and rotate/align and crop it, then overlay text over the fields. Do you expect the typical administrative assistant to be able to do that?

If a typical administrative assistant can't do that... They had sure as hell at the least posses legible handwriting!

Also, the article is (overgeneralizing and) saying that fully mechanical typewriter production is no more (according to a survey sample of 1) but doesn't mention that electronic typewriters will live a long time, for reasons similar to your concern.

Re:Anndddd..

[b0bby]

. . . until you need to deal with lots of forms where no PDF is available but you want to ensure the form is entirely legible, or when you need to complete a form with carbon copies.

I bought a Brother typewriter last month just so we'd be able to type out 1099 forms - spending the $80 was better than any alternatives. I was actually a little surprised at how easily available they are.

Re:Anndddd..

[slapout]

Ah, yes. I remember putting carbon paper in between two sheets of form feed paper so I could print two copies at once. When I tried two sheets of carbon paper (3 copies at once) it always jammed...

Re:Anndddd..

[Culture20]

However, long before we had scanners and the like, we were able to design very simple word documents that could be filled in and then printed on pre-printed stationary.

"This document contains Macros, and current Active Directory Group Policies forbid loading of Macros in Microsoft Office. Please contact your Administrator."

To which the AA thinks to herself "I'm the Office Administrator! *@$^!"

Re:Anndddd..

[AJH16]

If wide paper is your concern, printers with legal size paper or continuous paper plotters work better wonders. You are right that dot matrix isn't going away for a long time due to the carbon copy capability of impact printing though.

Re:Anndddd..

[luis_a_espinal]

Dot matrix printers: When it comes to debugging very poorly written undocumented spaghetti code (especially VB with goto abuse all over the place) nothing beats a wide dot matrix printer and tractor paper for making sense of spaghetti code because you can see all the code at once and trace through the spaghetti.

My impression is that this is a different anti-pattern, one megafunction and tons of global state - no encapsulation or classes. Spaghetti code is typically recognized by massive and unstructured layers and calling, making it impossible to see where one code call goes like tracing one piece of spaghetti on a plate. A matrix printer won't do you any good because it's not linear at all.

Wrong there buddy. It doesn't matter if the code is linear or not. After having dealt with typical procedural spagetti in FoxPro, QuickBasic and PickBasic or VB megafuncs, nothing beats tractor paper and a wide dot matrix printer. Sometimes a debugger just doesn't cut the mustard, and nothing beats the he ability to print a megachunk of shitty code all at one, that you can tape to a whole and look at it as a whole. That's one of the things I sometimes (but certainly not always) miss from the good ol' days.

Re:Anndddd..

[sconeu]

Actually there's exactly one thing that beats tractor paper and a wide dot matrix printer...

Tractor paper and a wide *CHAIN* printer. At my first job, we had a Dataproducts chain printer that did about 6PPM text only on 14" wide tractor feed.

Re:Anndddd..

[Kral_Blbec]

tape to a whole? You mean hole? How do you tape anything to a hole?
Maybe you mean tape it to a whore, but then if you have a whore in the office why are you bothering with debugging code?

Re:Anndddd..

[Kral_Blbec]

Assuming you did it for a business, wouldn't it have been easier to spend the 80 bucks to buy a PDF editing program, scan a form, then add fields to it and print them all?

Re:Anndddd..

[geekoid]

There are printers that you can form feed. Pretty much every type of form, including triple forms.

OTOH, this may mean people tak a pause ti think about their business process and see ifnthey really nede to do it the way they are, or if it's just a habit.

BTW, that's actually not a very good way to debug VB spag. Code.

Re:Anndddd..

[geekoid]

or you put it into a different editor. Break it into pieces on what ever is logical to you for the particular piece of code.
Refine with time as you need to once again look at that code.

I have debugged hellasion VB spag Code. functions several thousand lines long.
SO yeah, I feel for your need.

Long term is the slow pull apart comments.

But hey, go ahaed and take the short sighted and long way of doing things.

Print it out *snicker*

Re:Anndddd..

[geekoid]

Or spend 30 dollars and get software that prints them.

Re:Anndddd..

[arth1]

Dot matrix printers also has another function that some of us sysadmins like: They print out single lines at a time, and not entire pages, and with fan-fold paper, there is no way to change something in the middle of the print-out. This is especially useful for security/audit logs.

Typewriters? Yes, filling in printed forms as others have mentioned. But also, nothing beats a manual typewriter with fabric ribbons for economy of operation. Sure, you can get a printer for $19.99, but you have to buy $39.99 ink cartridges for them quite often if you're productive. And when you hear clack-clack-clack-ding, you know you're productive.

Speaking of things going out of production, I tried to find one of the wheel shaped typewriter erasers not long ago (the blue ones you can use while the paper is still in the typewriter), but stores seem to no longer carry them.
Anyone know of somewhere they can still be bought?

Re:Anndddd..

[Anonymous Coward]

. . . until you need to deal with lots of forms where no PDF is available but you want to ensure the form is entirely legible, or when you need to complete a form with carbon copies.

Filling out paper forms and actually using carbon copies sounds like something that gained popularity due to typewriters. Once they are gone, isn't it reasonable to assume at least carbon copies (except those in the e-mail standards) will disappear too?

In Sweden, much of the regular paperwork (e.g. taxes, moving within the country) can be done electronically by using PDFs or even some . Most of it still needs a signature of some kind though.

Re:Anndddd..

[evilviper]

Wide format printouts are indeed one place dot matrix printers are hanging on. Have you priced a wide format laser printer? Sometimes you just can't justify spending several thousand on a wide format laser printer, and it's too much work to completely reformat the reports, so you keep the old epson crawling along, always just a bit longer.

Re:Anndddd..

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet I can tell you about yourself based on your post.
You asked if the typical admin. assistant can scan files and make them digital. I'd answer that they could, provided some asshat didn't lug a dusty Selectric out of a closet for them. I guess you would be that asshat. You are the type of person who looks down their nose at others simply because you think they CAN'T do technical things when it is more likely that they DON'T WANT TO do technical things. You are also the type of person who enables laziness and calls it stupidity just to make themselves look good. The difference in IQ from 100 to 150 isn't all that much, my friend, and you don't even have a 150 IQ. Of course I work in printing so I have entire divisions of people who think just like you.
11x17 in duplex? Buy two HP 9050s for that. Fax? Buy two dedicated fax machines. Scan to email/server? Buy two HP DCS just for that. What? We have two multifunction color Xerox workcenters that can do all those things? But those are just for printing a booklet -- once a quarter -- and then only in case the six Xicon digital presses four miles away all break down at the same time.

And this is all for six people in one office.

Did I tell you I have multiple DIVISIONS full of these cretins?

Also, I would like to introduce you to 11x17 inch paper or whatever the metric equivalent is in other countries. Print landscape, tape together, viola! Now do everyone a favor and shitcan the typewriter and the dot-matrix printer so we can get back to real work.

Niche market

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely there is a nice market for hipsters who will still buy vintage style typewriters...

Re:Niche market

[RussellSHarris]

Yes... they're called "flea" markets.

Re:Niche market

[jockeys]

not really, most typewriters aren't set in Helvetica, and what kind of hipster uses any other font?

last MANUAL typewriter factory

[Anonymous Coward]

They still make electric ones.

not really...

[Anonymous Coward]

Last factory in India, maybe. I still see typewriters sold on many places (yeah, not 'mainstream') places but I'm pretty sure they are still being made.

Re:not really...

[rubycodez]

New ones, Both Kinds, still made and sold, electric and manual.

Still being made and sold by the biggest office supply stores, for example: http://www.officemax.com/catalog/search.jsp?freeText=typewriter&search.x=0&search.y=0

want a new manual typewriter, click here:

http://www.amazon.com/Olivetti-Linea-98-Manual-Typewriter/dp/B004URUOB4

No technology goes extinct?

[Anonymous Coward]

According to Kevin Kelly, editor of Wired:

"I say there is no species of technology that have ever gone globally extinct on this planet."

Re:No technology goes extinct?

[NatasRevol]

I still love my 8 track!

Re:No technology goes extinct?

[mangu]

According to Kevin Kelly, editor of Wired:

"I say there is no species of technology that have ever gone globally extinct on this planet."

Then perhaps he will be so kind to tell me where can I find some OC-71 germanium transistors to repair my 1950s vintage radio. Or a 25Z5 rectifier vacuum tube for my 1940s radio.

His assertion is valid only for a sufficiently broad definition of "species of technology". There are still some types of vacuum tubes being made, but AFAIK, no mercury arc rectifiers, or even the common vacuum diode rectifier like the 25Z5 I mentioned above. There are still some germanium transistors, but not the alloy junction transistors like the OC-71.

Ha!

[ivandavidoff]

Y'all will be jealous of me and my Remington Portable when the apocalypse comes.

Re:Ha!

[Coldmoon]

Y'all will be jealous of me and my Remington Portable when the apocalypse comes.

And just what will you be using that typewriter for, to throw at the zombies as you run for shelter in your bunker?

Re:Ha!

[atarione]

come the apocalypse you are going to be jealous of my bottle of Jack Daniels, my M4 and Colt .45 compact officers.

I figure i can get all the type writers i might need (well and anything else) with the above supplies =p

Re:Ha!

[Surt]

Yeah, exactly. And there you'll be, brains eaten, with no typewriter.

Re:Ha!

[DarkOx]

No he will use it to save his game duh!

wait this thread is about Resident Evil right?

Re:Ha!

[Talderas]

But if his brains were eaten. That would make him one of the zombies and so the typewriter would have been thrown at him. So he would have a typewriter.

Re:Ha!

[Surt]

Sorry, I may have been mistaken, but I thought if you were bitten by a zombie, you turned, but if your brains were eaten, that was the end (for the same reason, to kill a zombie, you have to damage the head sufficiently to destroy the brain).

If you could get back to me soon, that would be great. This is a pretty serious issue, I just smashed in a lot of heads, and if I need to do something else to take care of my zombie problem I really need to know befoeljra;ljrfasfdl

Re:Ha!

[Anonymous Coward]

In the event of the apocalypse, I think you'd be better off with a Remington 870.

Re:Ha!

[dotfile]

When the apocalypse comes, I'll be happier that I have friends. And guns. And know how to distill booze. I probably won't care much about that dual pitch Correcting Selectric III I have stashed away.

Re:Ha!

[geekoid]

To type them a nasty letter to rebuke them for their actions.

OTOH, the next Zombie movie my find is in I'm going to try and gt them to use a typewriters for something clever.

Typewriter?

[cpu6502]

I stopped using mine once I installed GEOSwrite on my Commodore. Sometime around 1986? Being able to use dozens of different fonts (or sizes) is a major advantage over my old typewriter with its fixed PICA size. It just took a little while for the rest of the world to catch up.

Re:Typewriter?

[mekkab]

Can you still read those files you saved to casette tape?
I can still read those pages typed in 1986, even they're a little carbon smudged...

Re:Typewriter?

[cpu6502]

>>>Can you still read those files you saved to casette tape?

1541 disk actually.
And yes I can still read them since anything of importance (i.e. my resume) was long-ago transferred to 3.5" floppy, then CD-R, and now yahoo and google mail caches.

Re:Typewriter?

[Anonymous Coward]

I stopped using mine when I learned it was secretly saving a copy of everything I typed.

Re:Typewriter?

[Dunbal]

No, but considering they were probably about 8Kb in size, it's only half an hour's work to reproduce them...

Re:Typewriter?

[Rob the Bold]

I stopped using mine when I learned it was secretly saving a copy of everything I typed.

Not me, I just switched back to the old-school cloth-and-ink ribbon. Actually, I didn't. But in case anyone wondered, the parent's statement about secret copies is essentially correct for carbon-film ribbon (depending on your definition of "secret").

Re:Typewriter?

[cpu6502]

>>>about 8Kb in size

8 kilobit? Hardly. 64 kilobytes * 8 == 512 Kb available memory for GEOS files. ~4000 kilobit if you had the ram expansion unit.

Re:Typewriter?

[Rob the Bold]

I stopped using mine once I installed GEOSwrite on my Commodore. Sometime around 1986? Being able to use dozens of different fonts (or sizes) is a major advantage over my old typewriter with its fixed PICA size. It just took a little while for the rest of the world to catch up.

I got a commodore-serial to RS232 converter, a Smith Corona "Messenger Module" and plugged the C=64 into my new daisy wheel printer that had the previous week been my typewriter. Unless you had hearing protection, you left the room while it worked and come back when it got quiet to feed another page!

Re:Typewriter?

[Rob the Bold]

Did you null-modem everything over to a PC or did you find a better (i.e. faster) way?

Re:Typewriter?

[Belial6]

I actually missed that, and it is much funnier now.

Re:Typewriter?

[geekoid]

depending the the type of paper, and the storage, you may not be able to read them,.

And BTW: the data is gone when the standard changes or equipment manufacture goes out of business days are LONG over.

The Internet, cheap networking, and cheap hard disks solved that problem.

And to answer your question:Even if that data wasn't transfered from system to system, we could get it back.
I can easily get a cassette players and the specification for the reader and build an emulator.

Not really that hard.

Who needs a real typewriter...

[Briareos]

...when there's Michael Winslow? :D

*cue "We can emulate them, we have the technology" jokes*

np: Alva Noto - Teion Acat (Xerrox Vol. 2)

In other news, sales of "Secretary" DVD...

[Anonymous Coward]

In other news, sales of "Secretary" (staring James Spader and Maggie Gyllenhaal) has spiked prompting the producers to consider a re-release.

-paul

Manual Typewriters Only.

[bmo]

Brother still makes an array of electric typewriters.

http://www.brother-usa.com/Typewriters/default.aspx?src=productIndex

Still useful for multipart forms (yes, they still exist, unfortunately), labels, and envelopes. Laser printers don't do so well on these. Laser printers have the unfortunate habit of heating the page of labels, so after a couple of passes, you throw away the rest of the page if you haven't used it (or you have a fun time digging out random labels from the laser printer).

--
BMO

Re:Manual Typewriters Only.

[fast turtle]

Okidata Dot Matrix (9 pin) printer handles multipart forms quite well. It also does a decent job on mailing labels.

I use an HP Laserjet for printing my mailing labels. Works well as long as you don't buy inkjet only labels. Get the Laser Labels and you wont have probls.

Re:Manual Typewriters Only.

[cpu6502]

>>>Okidata Dot Matrix (9 pin) printer

I've got one of those (rebranded as a sears model). Used it off-and-on for 25 years until I upgraded to a cheap laser printer in 2010. Very reliable and easy to setup.

Re:Manual Typewriters Only.

[bmo]

>impact printers

These are fine as long as you are using your own multipart forms on fanfold and can program the layout ahead of time.

They don't work so well when you're trying to fill out someone /else's/ multipart form, of which they only sent you *just* one. Bastards.

--
BMO

Re:Manual Typewriters Only.

[rubycodez]

the 24 pins of my epson LQ1500 look even better, it's been in a closet at my parent's house for 24 years.

Re:Manual Typewriters Only.

[gilesjuk]

Kinda defeats the purpose of having a typewriter, which these days is surely to be able to type a legible document without the need for an electricity supply.

Re:Manual Typewriters Only.

[bmo]

I didn't realize that the word "typewriter" only meant manual.

I guess I hadn't been using a typewriter since 1979, just some weird machine that emulated a typewriter.

Yes, that is a sneer you hear in my text.

--
BMO

touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[Anonymous Coward]

This made me reminisce about touch typing classes we took in high school in 1977. They were taught on manual typewriters that had several inches of key travel to them. It was damn hard to get up much speed, but I eventually managed 76 WPM for an extended period. Most of the class struggled to get into the 50's. (I can hit well over 100 on a modern PC keyboard - higher if I tolerate some mistakes). I don't know how long the things had been there, but they look ancient when I was there in the late 70's. I'm guessing they were from at least the 1950's.

I'm always surprised when I watch most of the younger generation that grew up with computers trying to type on them. It's painful to watch. You'd figure that people who grew up with PCs as a part of their lives would be good at it, and a few certainly are, but more often than not they struggle, type very slowly, and can't type without looking at the keyboard the whole time! Then again, they also struggle to do what seems like basic operational tasks with the same computers. If the goal is to rename 200 files in the same way, I'll do it with a one line script in about 20 seconds, while most younger people I know will sit there for 45 minutes and do it by hand with a GUI file manager. I had once guessed that the generation growing up with personal computing would be proficient at using them, but in virtually every case, I'm the one that ends up helping them with anything that's nontrivial. Weird.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[Anonymous Coward]

Most young people don't wanna work in IT, you know. They wanna be in Strategic Planning, Marketing, Corporate Finance, etc., because that way they'll make 20x more than you and will be able to hire an IT monkey to do scripts to rename files.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[Anonymous Coward]

stfu grandpa. no one cares how fast you can type.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[nomadic]

Come on, how many of the "younger generation" do you really observe type? I'm sure your sample size is way too small to get a valid view. And I did one touch typing class in junior high but fortunately nothing stuck; formal touch-typing methods are absurd.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[Anonymous Coward]

> Come on, how many of the "younger generation" do you really observe type?

A fair point. At least a few dozen though. Teenage kids of friends, young co-workers just out of college. I can't really think of *any* who seem to have decent typing skills. It might be too small a sample size to extrapolate from to the whole population, but it is a bit curious.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[DarkOx]

Did your write your post without touch typing? I'd be really surprised if you did. Maybe you fingers just sort of know where to go and you don't always return to home row or whatever but I would be pretty surprised if you were even looking at the keyboard when your write that, I bet you looked at the display.

Formal touch-typing is not really about "the correct way to type" its a starting point and a set of exercises to encourage the development of kinetic memory so the typist's hands just know what to do.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[jeffmeden]

Then again, they also struggle to do what seems like basic operational tasks with the same computers. If the goal is to rename 200 files in the same way, I'll do it with a one line script in about 20 seconds, while most younger people I know will sit there for 45 minutes and do it by hand with a GUI file manager. I had once guessed that the generation growing up with personal computing would be proficient at using them, but in virtually every case, I'm the one that ends up helping them with anything that's nontrivial.

"Growing up with computers" != "Growing up with shell scripting"

Oh, there I go again...

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[slapout]

I still think one of the best things I did in college was take a typing class (they called it "Keyboarding"). It was a lot of work, but by the end of the class I could touch type. And it's a skill I still use every day.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[Anonymous Coward]

You probably grew up with cars, do you know how to rebuild an engine? No? Then why would you expect average users to know how to write a batch script.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[MoonBuggy]

I think it's something that we geeks will never get our heads around (and it's certainly not limited to computers), but evidently many people genuinely don't care, or even think to ask: "How does that work?"

Even matters we would consider absurdly basic (computers run on code, which can be repetitively executed using loops, for example) aren't necessarily self-evident if you don't stop to think and/or ask about it. The bit I find hard to understand, though, is how someone can sit at a computer every day and not want to think and/or ask about it. It's just a totally different mindset, and one that I can't really empathise with, if I'm honest.

What I dislike, is that people (some tech types included) will say "Well most people won't go into IT, why should they bother knowing?" as if it explains this absence of curiosity. To use the inevitable car analogy: I'm not planning to become a mechanic, but I can point out the major components of an engine and perform basic maintenance. I wouldn't allow myself to use a tool every day without giving myself a rough idea of how it works, partly for practical reasons (understanding a mechanism often allows one to use it much more efficiently than memorising 'press button A, pull lever B...') and partly because I enjoy understanding the world I interact with, even if it is only on a superficial level in many cases.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[cusco]

Bingo. If you learned on a DOS or CPM operating system you learned how to create batch files and the like. In some ways the modern GUIs are great, but they shield users from the actual guts of the operating system so they never get that exposure. My co-irkers, who learned about computers sometime after Win95 came out, are always surprised what is possible at the command line.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[slapout]

Someone needs to wash your mouth out with soap. Watch how you talk to your elders.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[slapout]

I don't know how to rebuild an engine, but I do know how to change the oil. I wouldn't expect the average user to know how to write a batch script, but it wouldn't hurt them to learn a few useful commands, like: rename *.jpeg *.jpg.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[dpbsmith]

Our high school typing classes in the 1960s used a set of records--78 RPM shellac records, of course--of rhythmic music. The rhythms were calibrated in words per minute--30 wpm, 35, wpm, 40 wpm, etc. The same piece of music was used for several increasing speeds, then as you got to some faster speed you were rewarded by getting to hear a different piece of music.

The slowest ones used a piece of march music named "American Patrol," which is one of those pieces of music most people cannot name but recognize instantly when they hear it. YouTube has a recording, not the same recording (and incorrectly identified--it's by F. W. Meachum, not Sousa). The typing records were, of course, played with a very heavy, steady, square beat. To this day I can't hear this piece of music without thinking "F-R-F-space-J-U-J."

Quite seriously, though, all touch-typing classes--not just in my high-school days, but in my mother's high school days--drilled into you the importance of maintaining an absolutely steady, even rhythm. You didn't slow down, even when stretching with the left pinky to hit the exclamation point, and you didn't speed up, even when you're typing T-H-E.

I'm not sure how this particular bit of lore got lost. As nearly as I can tell, the generation that has learned to "key" on computer keyboards is not being taught to keep a steady rhythm. I don't know if the importance of the steady rhythm is real or just tradition or superstition; we were taught it and I believed it and still do.

Incidentally, typing on a high-quality, properly maintained office manual typewriter had a distinctly sensuous pleasure to it. The inertia of the typebars and the force profile of the keyboard had apparently evolved to feel good. In my high school days they had a mix of manual and electric typewriters. I could type faster on the electrics, and of course they produced better-looking typing, but they weren't as pleasant to use. Cheap portables were, of course, no fun, but a good full-size office Royal or Remington... mmmmmmmm.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[sconeu]

[AOL]
Me too!
[/AOL]

In 1977, I learned on ancient (probably late '50s/early '60s) Royal manuals with the long travel, and you also needed a crapload of force on them to make sure the key actually *hit* the paper.

I also can do over 100 on a PC keyboard for the same reason (I joke that I do 100wpm forwards and 40 wpm backwards *cough*backspace*cough*). The only problem I have is the muscle memory from that early training, and I still *pound* the keyboard.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[Anonymous Coward]

> The bit I find hard to understand, though, is how someone can sit at a computer every day and not want to think and/or ask about it

Especially given that they often spend more time doing some repetitive action in a GUI that it would take to *learn* enough CLI from scratch, on the spot, to do it, and still come out ahead. That's the bizarre thing: I've seen people spend an hour doing something by hand, when starting from scratch it would take maybe 10-15 minutes to learn how to script it. It's a win that very time, and a bigger win every time after that!

I think "learning how to automate tasks with your computer" is not the equivalent of "rebuilding your car engine". Rebuilding your engine might be akin to designing the CPU's microarchitecture. Automating tasks is the basic thing that a computer is FOR, and if you haven't learned to do it in some manner or another (and there are many to pick from), then you don't know how to operate a computer. It's the automotive version of being able to pull into a parking space or use the turn indicators.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[Anonymous Coward]

"You'd figure that people who grew up with PCs as a part of their lives would be good at it"

Nope, they learned to type using hunt and peck, and it became ingrained. Much harder to unlearn bad habits than it is to learn the correct way to begin with.

I learned in 76, but sliced a finger open and couldn't use my right hand a over a week. Never quite caught up to the rest of the class.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[geekoid]

"..ut they shield users from the actual guts of the operating system so they never get that exposure."

GOOD, that's how it's supposed to be. Users should never even think about the guts of the system.
If they are curious enough, they can get access. I do NOT miss the days where the average user would screw around with autoexec and command. DO not want.

I'm trying to figure something out. Is you sig there because you are pointing out how Carlin doesn't understand maths, or because YOU don't understand Maths and think he's correct?

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[geekoid]

You're a maker, most people aren't. even so called 'nerds' and 'geeks'

I'm a maker. I'm sure /. is maker heavy, statistically, that is.

Understand, build, work.
It's what we do.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[Lunzo]

As one of the "younger generation", I echo the sentiment of this post. We didn't have touch typing classes in school. I guess it was expected that you'd pick it up yourself. As a result I learnt a really bad technique from my self-teaching. A large amount of mistakes and not really using all 5 fingers. Home position for my left hand was in line with WASD instead of lining up with the 2nd finger on F.

I've since unlearned my bad habits and taught myself to type properly with "Typing of the Dead". It took a while and I'm probably not as fast as I was. On the plus side I'm a heap more accurate and speed will improve as muscle memory builds. I had hit the limit in speed/accuracy of what was possible with the poor technique, which is much lower than doing things correctly.

We still teach years of handwriting at school. Even after that most people's handwriting is terrible. A year or two of typing seems equally important in the modern, computerised world.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[nomadic]

I'm distinguishing between formal touch typing as it has traditionally been taught in typing class, and informal touch typing, which I'm sure 90% of the posters here use (including myself). The formal method puts the wrists at an unnatural angle, and has rigid rules for which fingers you use for which keys.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[gmhowell]

formal touch-typing methods are absurd.

Wah, I suck at something, so *it* must suck!

Isn't that the typical nerd lament about sports as well?

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[CalcuttaWala]

When I was finishing high school in Calcutta, India, my father insisted that i take a course in typing as being a typist was one of the few viable employment opportunities that existed. Glad to state that India has moved out of that zone of darkness but my touch typing skills are still a source of wonder to many of my younger "digit"-ally challenged colleagues !

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm always surprised when I watch most of the younger generation that grew up with computers trying to type on them. It's painful to watch. You'd figure that people who grew up with PCs as a part of their lives would be good at it, and a few certainly are, but more often than not they struggle, type very slowly, and can't type without looking at the keyboard the whole time!

The young people you have seen type are obviously in the category that has no need to type quickly, and have therefore never learned it. As a programmer, I have seem a lot of people (mainly other programmers but also some gamers and technical writers) whom have had a decent typing speed, even though they definitely do not use touch typing.

Then again, they also struggle to do what seems like basic operational tasks with the same computers. If the goal is to rename 200 files in the same way, I'll do it with a one line script in about 20 seconds, while most younger people I know will sit there for 45 minutes and do it by hand with a GUI file manager. I had once guessed that the generation growing up with personal computing would be proficient at using them, but in virtually every case, I'm the one that ends up helping them with anything that's nontrivial. Weird.

I partly blame this on the common use of Windows (and similar OSs). While it is certainly positive that people with no computer interest can use their computers without learning how they work, it also has the negative side-effect that you mention. People are no longer forced to learn how the computer works in order to use it, which means that only the curious ones with enough spare time will learn it. This is why I, when I wanted to learn Linux, chose what I then considered to be a difficult distro (Gentoo). By simply installing it, I was forced to learn a great deal about partitioning, compiling stuff in Linux, how to reconfigure the kernel to suit my needs, and so on.

However, it is important to note that Windows (>= XP I think) does have a feature for renaming multiple files simultaneously. The GUI is improving in terms of efficiency, though I doubt it will reach the level of the command line anytime soon.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on, how many of the "younger generation" do you really observe type?

Don't know about the original poster, but Nielsen-Norman (usability Gurus) did real world testing of "the younger generation" and didn't find they were any better at web UIs and performing various computing tasks than anyone else. I'd reference a study, but this was a comment made in a classroom.

formal touch-typing methods are absurd.

They're good enough to teach millions of people to touch type for... 100 years? Can't be too bad. Perhaps you're just a poor learner.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[MichaelSmith]

Someone needs to wash your mouth out with soap. Watch how you talk to your elders.

Careful there he has a lower UID than you...

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[MichaelSmith]

I'm trying to figure something out. Is you sig there because you are pointing out how Carlin doesn't understand maths, or because YOU don't understand Maths and think he's correct?

Actually I think Carlin is pretty right there. An IQ of 100 is pretty stupid and thats the average.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[cusco]

Yes, I realize it should be 'mean' rather than 'average', and I'm sure that Carlin did as well (or at least quickly had it pointed out to him). Substitute the two in the same sentence, read it out loud, and you'll realize that it wouldn't come across correctly on stage though. At least those below the mean would misunderstand . . .

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[julesh]

Quite seriously, though, all touch-typing classes--not just in my high-school days, but in my mother's high school days--drilled into you the importance of maintaining an absolutely steady, even rhythm. You didn't slow down, even when stretching with the left pinky to hit the exclamation point, and you didn't speed up, even when you're typing T-H-E.

I'm not sure how this particular bit of lore got lost. As nearly as I can tell, the generation that has learned to "key" on computer keyboards is not being taught to keep a steady rhythm. I don't know if the importance of the steady rhythm is real or just tradition or superstition; we were taught it and I believed it and still do.

It's interesting, and although I have never had formal touch typing lessons I do find I tend to fall into a rhythm when typing long words, but unless I'm copy typing I have to pause between words to be sure I know where I'm going with my sentence, and as I spend very little time copy typing I guess that rhythm isn't very useful to me. I could see how it would be if I were copy typing though. So, what I guess I'm saying is: the way you were taught is probably the best way to copy type, but as copy typing is no longer a common activity, it probably isn't such a good way to learn now?

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[Ritchie70]

When I was in high school in Illinois my father insisted i take typing as he believed his ability to do so at a decent rate was one of the things that kept him at a desk instead of in a jungle during the Vietnam war.

Personally I think it was more his father, the retired officer, but who knows.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[nomadic]

Dude, I guarantee I type a hell of a lot faster than you do.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[nomadic]

I don't touch type by sitting straight at my chair with my fingers on the "home row" and using only certain fingers (and only those fingers) to hit certain keys. And I still can out-type you and probably about 90% of typing teachers.

Re:touch typing classes and PC using proficiency

[gmhowell]

Dude, I guarantee I type a hell of a lot faster than you do.

Don't hold your breath.

Don't Worry

[autospa]

Don't worry i have two typewriters in my old office.

Slaves

[b4upoo]

Anyone that ever had to prepare formal documents on an old fashioned, manual typewriter should enjoy their extinction. In strict academics white-out was not allowed and carbon copies were also limited by the stern, old guard. One wrong space or mark and one had to start the entire page again. Entire forests were probably struck down just from spelling errors by students or professors. We went through a lot of paper and the time needed to complete a report could be in several days rather than an hour or so.

Re:Slaves

[rubycodez]

been there done that, but there are tricks of the trade for correcting without a casually visible trace (solvents such as benzene also used by crooks for "check-washing")

Without a (manual) typewriter

[Compaqt]

how would you type up a commendation, award recommendation, or promotion order in the field (at war)?

Or is the modern Army just totally predicated on having power, and can't function without it?

Re:Without a (manual) typewriter

[h4rr4r]

Why would you need to do that in the field?
You can't fail back to handwriting if you absolutely have to?

Re:Without a (manual) typewriter

[Wyatt Earp]

Yes, the modern army with radar, data link, radio, satellite relays, etc need power. It's a fundamental necessity in modern warfare to have electrical power.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/5-422/Ch1.htm

Re:Without a (manual) typewriter

[Anonymous Coward]

We use ruggedized laptops in the field. If you need a promotion order or some such, you download a form, fill in the blanks, and print it out. Or you can call up someone back the base over your radio and have them do it.

Re:Without a (manual) typewriter

[Anonymous Coward]

>> Or is the modern Army just totally predicated on having power, and can't function without it?

Wow, really? So, pigeons are sending instructions to Predator drones?

(also, there are things called pens/pencils if needed)

Re:Without a (manual) typewriter

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't they just use an Android or IPhone and post it to Facebook?

Re:Without a (manual) typewriter

[geekoid]

"Or is the modern Army just totally predicated on having power,"

Yes.
Everything relies on it, and it makes sense.

We can not do what we do at the level of efficiency, accuracy, and speed that we have come to expect without it.

"and can't function without it?"
It sure as hell can function without it, but at about a 1940's level. Just like every other army on the planet.

Re:Without a (manual) typewriter

[Sygnus]

how would you type up a commendation, award recommendation, or promotion order in the field (at war)?

Or is the modern Army just totally predicated on having power, and can't function without it?

This is pretty much the case.

Re:Without a (manual) typewriter

[Anonymous Coward]

Batteries?

I TYPE EVERY DAY ON A MANUAL

[Anonymous Coward]

NOOOOOOOO. I keep my blog on my typewriter! www.awkwardengineer.com

Not the last, but likely to be last *major*

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

As others have pointed out, there are other companies still making and selling manual typewriters. But Godrej is probably the last major English manual typewriter maker. I have used this typewriter, and it is almost ubiquitous in India. Almost every village or a hamlet in India would have a "typewriting" institute. Tiny private trade schools. It was almost a rite of passage in South India to join one of these institutes and pass the "lower" (60 wpm) or the "higher" (90wpm) certificate examns. If you could get a higher certificate in typewriting or shorthand (90 wpm and 120 wpm respectively in shorthand) you are sure to find a job. One of the most surefire tickets out of poverty for the rural folks. I remember seeing a magazine story about a steno-typist who built a temple for Pitman, the originator of English shorthand long time ago.

Now a days all these "typewriting institutes" are teaching Java/Oracle/Dcom/PeopleSoft/Ansys and all kinds of assorted often unrelated software packages.

Great journalism.

[wordsnyc]

Is this what it takes to work for the Atlantic? Seriously? The clown gets the basic story wrong because he was too lazy to do five minutes of research, then waxes nostalgic over typewriters while calling the ribbon "tape"? TAPE? What a maroon.

Re:Great journalism.

[Rob the Bold]

Is this what it takes to work for the Atlantic? Seriously? The clown gets the basic story wrong because he was too lazy to do five minutes of research, then waxes nostalgic over typewriters while calling the ribbon "tape"? TAPE? What a maroon.

Both of my electrics had carbon-film-on-plastic ribbons that could reasonably called "tape". I have never seen a manual with such a ribbon, though.

Re:Great journalism.

[wordsnyc]

Yes, but the manual he referred to almost certainly used a cloth ribbon.

"Daddy, what is a typewriter?"

[PolygamousRanchKid]

Think of it like a keyboard . . . attached directly to a printer . . . without all of the computer shenanigans . . .

Re:"Daddy, what is a typewriter?"

[ottothecow]

I see a future apple product!

Re:"Daddy, what is a typewriter?"

[femtoguy]

I don't know about that, but I remember many years ago writing a simple assembly language program on a TRS-80 model 3 that accepted keyboard input, and streamed it directly to a daisy wheel printer. Made for a very expensive typewriter, but it was easier to get stuff done in the computer lab than in the typing teacher's room.

Oh, the old days.

Re:"Daddy, what is a typewriter?"

[snspdaarf]

Oh, like a DECwriter?

Re:"Daddy, what is a typewriter?"

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.kilmerhouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/1895-office-typewriter.jpg

Typewriters are for flirting with

Pitman is worshiped in India.

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwide/south-asia/the-land-where-isaac-pitman-shorthand-inventor-is-a-god

I use a manual!

[Anonymous Coward]

I use a manual typewriter for my blog. Just about every day. There is actually a typewriter store down the street from me.

-www.awkwardengineer.com

I used to work for Godrej & Boyce

[Anonymous Coward]

typewriters, even in their heyday, were a tiny part of their office equipment division -

http://www.godrejandboyce.com/godrej/godrejandboyce/aboutgodrejandboyce.aspx?id=16&menuid=929

The co. manufactures a lot fo stuff, from office equipment to precision m/c tools. It is easily the best co. to work for, if their treatment of employees is still the same as it was then. It is still a privately held co. and so probably still cares more for customers and employees than for the stock market ho's of Mumbai.

typewriter is dead

[CosaNostra Pizza Inc]

The typewriter died out because they never implemented an "Any" key.

Re:typewriter is dead

[hedwards]

Now if they could only hook the "any" key up to a firearm, most of our technology problems would be solved.

Or Nova Express. Or Cities of the Red Night. Or

[Ol Biscuitbarrel]

"Typewrither" sounds like something out of Naked Lunch.

Re:YOU ARE A GOD-DAMNED FUCKING IDIOT.

[Anonymous Coward]

Even though a USB Typewriter exists, the chances that it was used to post on here are incredibly small. So it's still "safe to presume they didn't use a typewriter".

Selectric

[beschra]

I remember when IBM sold off its Selectric business. Death knells for Big Blue were sounding everywhere.

Everything Old is New

[Anonymous Coward]

In other news a Brooklyn-based start up has begun manufacturing typewriters to sell to hipsters.

reminds me of OLD node

[paulzeye]

http://everything2.com/user/Igloowhite/writeups/You+love+these+machines.+These+machines+are+dead%253A+a+love+story. First thing I thought of when I heard about this story

Holy shit!

[Anonymous Coward]

If my judgment is any guide, and it usually isn't, it's that when a meticulously engineered mechanical product such as a wristwatch is completely discontinued, the collectible price skyrockets! Forget Google, I'm putting the little money I forgot to invest last time -- in other words all I have -- into typerwriters!

Poor reporting

[Neanderthal Ninny]

I assume no one really checked their sources before they printed this (what a dated word "printed") or out on the net. A manual typewriter is still good if the power goes out and you need to make a standardized letter for some reason. We nearly needed to use one this year because our accounting software developer made a mistake in creating 1099 forms this year. Yes, Royal and Olivetti still manufactures manual typewriters so this story is incorrect. There are still are several manufactures of electric typewriters that double as printer for computers .

no wonder I haven't heard back from O'Reilly

[Anonymous Coward]

on my proposal for "Typewriter Forensics in a Nutshell"

Typewriter user

[coldsalmon]

As a longtime user of typewriters for creative writing (most recently national novel writing month), I am glad that this is just another case of Slashdot being totally incorrect.

Indians forced to use computers

[AlanCramer]

"now these are just like a typewriter". *person types to the end of the line, then grabs the side of the computer screen and slides onto floor".

What about the Monkey's re-creating Shakespeare

[Anonymous Coward]

Without these typewriters, I'm worried that 1,000 monkeys typing will never be able to recreate Sharespeare in 1000 years.
Those darned slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

Wondered about this...

[TheReviewer]

Just the other day I was in a thrift store and saw an old Smith Corona manual typewriter and wondered if they were still being made... I see from the comments here that they are still being made and used... Interesting.

Does anyone else notice...

[IDrinkBatUrine]

...that nearly every article posted to /. is berated by a never-ending series of comments indicating that the article is bad, the poster is bad, etc, in a decided know-it-all fashion? I enjoy /., and I enjoy how the community tends to generally be more well-informed than with other, similar sites, but nearly every single post is attacked as being incorrect. How on Earth is one supposed to post content? What does it take to please you people?

Re:Does anyone else notice...

[Jstlook]

What does it take to please you people?

Three simple things: 1) Basic fact-checking, 2) reviewing what you write to make sure you produced a clear, thoughtful, and coherent statement, and 3) crediting and providing [spam-free] links to, sources.

As far as your critique of how on Earth someone is supposed to post content, I have to assume you're not talking about the mechanical steps (press the button), but rather the 'how do you post content without getting berated' question. The answer is also simple: well-informed means educated; educated means that you are capable of presenting an argument with enough information for your audience to come to the same conclusion you did.

If you're getting berated then you obviously haven't presented your argument clearly, which may say something about either your educational background, or your work ethic.

Re:Does anyone else notice...

[IDrinkBatUrine]

Then nearly half of all posters to /.(based on my experience) don't know how to do it, and nearly everyone on /. knows more than any given poster, and the poster should be ashamed of this. Compared to competing services, /. has become less relevant over time. By the end of this, the user base will consist of 3 "experts on everything" sitting in their parent's basements and debating over Fedora v. Debian.

I wish I'd known about them in the late 80s

[billstewart]

Back in the late 80s or so, a friend of mine was moving off to Africa. We tried to find a manual typewriter for her, but nobody really sold them any more - electrics had pretty much replaced them. Eventually we found a children's manual typewriter, which was fairly light-weight and portable.
I wish I'd known about that typewriter company back then - I lived an hour or so away from Somerset.

Re:I wish I'd known about them in the late 80s

[gmhowell]

You should have just Googled for it.

Re:I wish I'd known about them in the late 80s

[sznupi]

I'm pretty certain it would be trivial to find a manual one close to her destination; probably at a notably lower price, too. Manuals basically seemed to be the norm, even in not particularly impoverished places (Central Europe in my case), virtually till the very "end" of typewriter ("classic" electric ones being a rarity, and as for more modern ones... so late, so few, I barely perceive them as typewriters).

When their time had finally come a decade+ ago, the thing I randomly stumbled upon and saved from the scrapyard was a 50+ year old (now, and it will probably outlive me) Kolibri (well, not quite in those colours and languages); even, supposedly, one of the smallest and lightest "ever"...

typewriters still being made...

[Anonymous Coward]

Prisions are the main market in the USA:
http://www.minyanville.com/dailyfeed/2011/04/25/contrary-to-reports-typewriter-industry/
http://www.swintec.com/5-typewriters

Typewriter fonts are more Elite than Helvetica

[billstewart]

Or sometimes they're more Pica. And sometimes hipsters use Courier because it's monospaced, and sometimes they use Comic Sans to be ironic and annoying to font geeks.

The hell took so long?

[scarboni888]

Shouldn't this have happened like 20 years ago?

Wowee.

I live in a typewriter factory.

[Anonymous Coward]

The company's name was Emerson.

Re:I live in a typewriter factory.

[rubycodez]

you live in Momence, IL, or the Emerson Lofts in Woodstock, IL?

manuals still being made and sold too

[rubycodez]

http://www.amazon.com/Olivetti-Linea-98-Manual-Typewriter/dp/B004URUOB4

National security

[DragonHawk]

Another use manual typewriters have is for filling out forms or typing documents involving classified information, without having to prepare and file a 70-page System Security Plan, get approval from everyone from the cook on up through God, and do weekly security audits.

Re:National security

[rubycodez]

just make sure to incinerate the ribbon

Preservation

[fadethepolice]

Whether it is manual typewriters or not, someone should go in and dissasemble the machinery and scan each peace with the iphone 3d scanner app and store it for later printing.

gmhowell they let YOU out of the mental hospital?

[Anonymous Coward]

To anyone reading: I live near this person, and he is a known psychotic. He is supposed to be on medication but escaped from a mental institution. Please be aware of this, He is a very mentally disturbed individual. He was found masturbating non-stop for 3 days straight in fact. Yes, that is funny, but it is true in gmhowell's case. Please make sure gmhowell takes his meds at least. Thank you.

gmhowell did you escape the loony bin again?

[Anonymous Coward]

I live near this person gmhowell, and I think it's only fair that I warn you that he is a known psychotically dangerous schizophrenic. He recently escaped from a mental institution and was put there because he injured himself by masturbating non-stop for 3 days straight. He needs to take his meds, so please, would you all remind him of that? Thank you.

gmhowell's "ne'er-do-well" dimwit answer

[Anonymous Coward]

That's gmhowell's source of anything. Too bad he doesn't take his meds like he should though. I live near him and he was caught jerking off on the job and then that continued for 3 days straight, and no one knows why. He was committed to a mental ward and apparently he's escaped. It's only fair to warn you all about this.

Re:gmhowell they let YOU out of the mental hospita

[gmhowell]

To anyone reading: I live near this person, and he is a known psychotic. He is supposed to be on medication but escaped from a mental institution. Please be aware of this, He is a very mentally disturbed individual. He was found masturbating non-stop for 3 days straight in fact. Yes, that is funny, but it is true in gmhowell's case. Please make sure gmhowell takes his meds at least. Thank you.

No kidding. I was trying to break my personal record of six straight days, and you went and fucked it up.

I'll agree with Tragic Hipster

[Paul1969]

Actually typewriters are more Tragic Hipster or Steampunk IMHO.

But there's a reason the genre is called STEAMpunk. So I would only consider a steam-operated typewriter to be a valid SP machine.

Ability of inmates to pass notes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like the same kind of coerced association that all us nerds encountered back in High School.

Or in terms of prisoners being force-fed the societal indoctrination of their occupiers, same as a big gray hotel with bars on the windows, why would someone be prevented of paying their debts to society in their not being allowed to sell their debts to fellow inmates through similar pen-pal discussion?

United States is so-corrupt I can't even fathom why it has such a large military if only to protect itself like a brat knowing their about to get swatted, or dung beetles fighting over their pile of excrement.

The *typewriter* may outlive you

[billstewart]

.... but getting typewriter ribbons has been increasingly difficult. Admittedly, we probably haven't used my wife's father's manual typewriter for 5-10 years, but getting ribbons was a problem back then, and is presumably worse now.

Re:The *typewriter* may outlive you

[sznupi]

Ah, but that's mostly just not being very imaginative ;p

The thing with manuals is that the only "perishable" stuff (apart from paper...) is a thin cloth soaked in ink, a thing which you can improvise relatively easy; or regenerate the old ribbon (yes, the particular ink and overall results might be substandard, it all might be a bit messy or dry too easily... still should be fine, every few days; I bet the recipes for "originals" are also fairly straightforward and easy to find, so if you prepare yourself you'll be good even in a nuclear winter and so on ;p )

Heck, my Kolibri already has "wrong" ribbon (two colour one, with the typewriter not having the mechanism to lift ribbon and use 2nd colour)...it doesn't matter.