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GPS Maker TomTom Submits Your Speed Data To Police
An anonymous reader writes "The GPS systems in TomTom's Live range all feature built-in 3G data cards, which feed location and route information back to a central server. According to CNET, this data, along with users' speed information, is being made available to local governments and the police."
From the article: "Knowing the cops can see where you're driving and how fast you're going is eye-opening stuff, but TomTom says the data is anonymous and can never be traced back to an individual user or device. Ordinarily, we'd be reassured by this, but we recall Apple saying something similar before the location-tracking excrement hit the phone-carrying fan."
Then it could print out speeding tickets as you go!
Also automatic shock collars for when crimes are committed.
I am an apple apologist, I guess. The reason is that I see the fact that Apple stores your location data on your cell phone when you are using their _location_ services as less serious than TomTom _giving_away_ your data to the authorities on a general basis, with no warrant or anything of the sort. Funny thing is, I don't even have an iPhone myself, and even I think that analogy fails pretty miserably.
Dear TomTom,
Why would you go and do a stupid thing like this? I loved your products, but I will purchase them no more.
"We are now aware that the police have used traffic information that you have helped to create to place speed cameras at dangerous locations where the average speed is higher than the legally allowed speed limit," he says.
Read more: http://crave.cnet.co.uk/cartech/tomtom-admits-to-sending-your-routes-and-speed-information-to-the-police-50003618/#ixzz1KqGfyhmm
cough *BS* cough They are using it to make more money and just place the cameras where the probability is higher to make money! Thanks TOM TOM your company was going downhill, but it will REALLY go downhill now!
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
our Galtian overlords would work out that privacy is an aspect of security and that pervasive surveillance is an inherent security vulnerability. sigh
TomTom says the data is anonymous and can never be traced back to an individual user or device
Companies of this size don't lie, what's the problem?
A lot of big companies are finding themselves in compromising positions this week: first Sony and Apple, now TomTom. I almost feel sorry for Apple, this is going to make explaining themselves a lot harder.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
This speed trap is brought to you by TomTom.
as if millions of shareholders suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
where doing business at all in the US will require that all consumer data be stored and then anal-ized and offered to the Police State we now live. Its going to get really messy when the union itself stops producing KY to make the process just a little more painful than it already is... Withdraw-pleasure-center syndrome coming.
There must be a way to use the 3G data card in there to do some interesting things. And as I understand it, mobile networks (like all wireless networks) require unique identifiers and all manner of other things... things which do trace back to identity. So this claim of being anonymous is simply wrong, misleading and "almost" a lie.
Still... people pay for the privilege.
The story is that the data was used by Dutch police to determine where to set up speed traps. The data was NOT used to go after any TomTom users for speeding.
It's still a somewhat dastardly tactic, but not quite what people on here are seeing it to be.
This is a substitute for a clever sig that fits within the maximum number of characters.
First off, at least in the United States, police cannot prosecute for a retrospective crime. I don't think a police officer giving me a speeding ticket for going 72 in a 65 two hours ago is going to hold any water in court. Secondly, I think this data is probably going to be used to plan speed traps, not hand out tickets. Plus, how much of the population is using TomTom GPS systems? Are they representative of the entire driving population? I think not.
You only have six points remaining on your license.
Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
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I don't really think Apple is in the same ballpark here. A cache that stays on the phone and isn't deleted due to a bug is very different than a GPS device that shares data with the police.
Get this anonymous tracking mandated for new cars? It's for safety you see.
I'll never recommend your products again.
They give tickets for people who've run red lights and been captured by the camera. This would be no different. Electronic witness versus electronic witness. The camera doesn't lie... well, the GPS doesn't lie, either.
'Ordinarily, we'd be reassured by this...'
You would?! Why would anybody ever believe such BS? See, that the problem right there, you'll believe anything that looks all glossy 'n shit..
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
"If you're doing nothing wrong, you should have nothing to fear from cops."
Being Libertarian (i.e. 10th amendment constitutionalist) I strongly disagree with her. Cops ARE people you need to fear, especially when they have a habit of dragging people out of cars and beating them, or "accidentally" shooting kids/pets during drug raids. The last thing I want it them tracking me.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
"Sorry officer, you can't prosecute me for committing murder, I did it two hours ago!"
Why on earth would you be reassured?
"Anonymous" GPS traces that start and/or end with your home every day are not anonymous. Apple tried that trick - it's an intelligence test for the masses.
Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
How easy is it to get out of a speeding ticket if you got radared at 20 above the speed limit but your gps clearly show you being maybe 2 above the speed limit.
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
We've already had the ability to have GPS devices notify us when approaching known speed traps, using services such as Trapster. A sort of double-agent role for TomTom would be amusing, where they tell police where people speed, and speeders where police tend to hide.
Dangerous? Lucrative, more like.
Statistical data does allow to draw any conclusion any particular element of the sample, except when the data set is small: if you are alone on the road, the data is certainly not anonymous. Similarly, if everyone is speeding, everyone can be fined with absolute certainty.
http://corporate.tomtom.com/contactus.cfm
Send the a message directly. I think that'll be a great way to slashdo... err I mean get the message across to them.
This is not acceptable. Saying that the data is anonymous doesn't help as it may send police to hunt the roads you commute. So the info may be harvested from customers to harm customers.
The good use would be to give the data to highway planning and such to properly set speed limits rather than to shore up budgets with extra ticketing.
The only way to make corporations from abusing their customers for extra cash is to let the uninformed potential customers know what they are really getting.
A 1 star review on each Tomtom product that is then voted to the top, should get this point across.
nobody really cares where we are or what we say, despite all the hoopla. if one or many causes 'trouble', all the mirroring proxisizing one or many can muster, will not keep the chosen ones' security forces from your doorway. open? is that like honest? not fatal? no weapons required type events?
You smokin'?
You can't make something a crime then retroactively prosecute for it, but you can certainly prosecute for a crime that happened in the past. EVERY crime was committed before the perpetrator was prosecuted.
I think you might be mistaken on the meaning of that: You cannot be tried or punished for doing something that was not illegal when you did it; but later became illegal. Nor can you be re-punished if you were convicted of a crime that carried one sentence when you committed it; but was later changed to carry a different sentence(unless you are just inherently evil, like those convicted of sex offenses who were then added to the newly created 'registry' systems) .
However, if you do something that was illegal at the time you did it, there is no requirement that the cops crack the case immediately. Depending on the type of crime, the state having jurisdiction where it occurred, etc. there might be a statue of limitations that would apply; but that would be the only bound on the ability to prosecute for past crimes.
Changing a 65mph zone to 45mph, and then prosecuting everybody who is known to have gone over 45 in the past few years would not be kosher; but there is no requirement that you be caught in the act(though that certainly does make proof easier).
First off, at least in the United States, police cannot prosecute for a retrospective crime.
Wait, what now? So the only way to be charged with murder is to kill someone in front of a cop?
It's totally untraceable. We stripped out the name, CC data, and address and simply replaced it with a numeric UID. There should be no way at all of determining the identity of somebody who routinely drives to and from a given residential address... Just like that AOL search dataset became totally anonymous when they switched to UIDs.
First off, at least in the United States, police cannot prosecute for a retrospective crime.
That statement gets my vote for the silliest post on Slashdot this month.
So you are saying they can only prosecute crimes that you might commit in the future? So just send in 10 years worth of "potential future" speeding fines, and we will call it good, m'k?
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
The information may be "anonymous" but it's still your exact position. They need to find you and pull you over anyway. It's anonymous in the same way a radar blip is anonymous.
Sendou Wave Kick!!
If they can somehow verify that the data actually is anonymized, I don't really have a problem with them submitting it to the government. The state departments of transportation need to know how people are actually driving. Getting that data normally takes long, expensive studies, but they do it anyway because it makes people safer: if the average speed on a road is 5 mph over the legal limit, that's probably not a big deal; if it's 30 mph over, then there may well be something wrong with the design of the road (alternatively, the speed limit may just be set too low). If TomTom can help make things less expensive for taxpayers and safer for all drivers, without compromising privacy—I see that as a win.
If they find the speed limit is typically 30mph over for a given highway, they will increase patrols on said highway. In addition to potential safety concerns, speed limits are used as a revenue source - essentially as an under the table tax. Thus providing data of any sort to the police could become more expensive for taxpayers.
The other problem with saying "oh its anonymous so it is ok with me" is how much easier it would be for them to start collecting unique identifiers for cars without explicitly informing the public. Even more likely - a district which has traffic cameras might decide this new source of data ought to serve the same function, and pass a law mandating unique identifiers be passed along to law enforcement. Its quite the slippery slope.
They can't pass a law today outlawing chewing bubble gum, then give you a ticket for doing it last week. But if there is a law outlawing it today, and you chew it tomorrow, even if they don't catch you until next week, then there's no problem.
If this traffic stuff sickens you, join us at wikiSPEEDia
We pay contributors for speed information. You submit it, you own it forever. We are a charity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc_cGepf1qg
Where do they think the information on real time traffic speeds for various commuter routes comes from? People also complain about governments not addressing congestion issues at certain locations, this sort of data, along with average speeds is how municipalities make determinations on what sort of road construction to do "The sat-navs in TomTom's Live range all feature built-in 3G data cards, which feed location and route information back to a central server, which allows TomTom to create a map of congestion hotspots. It's now emerged that this data, however, along with a user's speed, is being made available to local governments and authorities."
I don't have a TomTom (got an Android and TomTom in the same birthday), but I don't believe you have to register for any TomTom service, you just buy the thing, plug it in, and it does map-stuff. Unless you sign up for their map update service, I doubt they HAVE your information to give to LEOs. What can they tell you, the serial number of the unit in your car? I'm sure law enforcement, with the ten minutes a month they don't spend trying to hunt down people with insignificant personal quantities of marijuana, will set up a checkpoint so they can check the serial numbers of every TomTom looking for that bastard with serial #93824920535326469 who went 5 miles over the speed limit last week at 4am.
Except for the fact that the government and police officers are all greedy bastards.
None of them will take the sane solution that since everyone is going 30 miles over the speed limit the speed limit should be raised. Instead, they see money and waste more taxpayer funds going after this "crime" rather than protecting people from actual crime.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
TomTom GPS unit, excellent condition, easy to use. Cheap! Will trade for a comparable Other GPS unit.
Don't be so paranoid. Why on earth wouldn't I use this fantastic FREE service of corporate XYZ to share my everything with everyone? It's so COOL!!
C'mon, what on earth can ever happen?! I've nothing to hide!
when the location track starts and ends AT YOUR FREAKING HOUSE every day?
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Yeah, your tracking data is anonymous... until it shows your anonymous but unique tracking data number driving 80MPH and then parking at the same house every evening.
Right. No, your other right. No, the other other right.
Do the companies own this data? If I buy a computer, create data on it, does the device manufacturer own that data? How could it be legal for a company to transmit data from a device no longer under their ownership?
Except in most EU countries police has to comply with rather strict restrictions, e.g. if the cop cannot proof he was trained on a specific speed trap, his measurements are often inadmissable; or if the equipment missed an maintenance date. I doubt any court would accept data from some random device that hasn't been officially calibrated.
Your reply may not convince darkness of anything, but it may interest other readers. I, for one, am curious what your response would be.
Murder has no statute of limitations. If someone commits murder, and it's found out about 90 years later, they can still be prosecuted, if sufficient evidence is capable of being found.
Over here TomTom is by far the most popular navigator and who says other brands aren't doing the same?
TomTom might have been gullible not realising their commercially available data was going to be used in this way but surely no company would commit suicide by identifying individuals.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
(unless you are just inherently evil, like those convicted of sex offenses who were then added to the newly created 'registry' systems) .
Or you're a taxpayer. The government can implement retrospective taxes and regulations and they have done so in the past.
For example, congress can implement a "penalty", "fine", "tax", or "administrative fee" based on something you did in the past.
So yes, they could pass a law that would cause fees or "fines" to be assessed to people who travelled above 45 in the past 2 years, but it's not a criminal act --- administrative fee, instead.
This may skirt dangerously close to a Fifth Amendment (self-incrimination) issue. The standard example was the NY Thruway, where the entry and exit times were used (along with the Intermediate Value Theorem, which makes it a great problem for intro calc classes) to prove speeding. The judge tossed it on the basis that drivers were compelled to "testify" against themselves by paying the toll.
That's why you're not getting a ticket based on the toll transponders you use every day.
An argument could be made that one is not required to use the GPS, and so is not compelled to testify, but I don't think that would get very far. I'm willing to go with the "anonymized" explanation.
You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
Location data that starts and ends at your house every day is not anonymous. Futhermore, this is one of those things you shouldn't give a inch on, it's only a small step now to track 'dissidents' that go to mosques or Democratic party meetings, gay/lesbian support groups, etc. Of course, it will only hurt the innocent, as the bad guys wouldn't be dumb enough to keep this.
Although the data is anonymous, it is used to determine the places on the highway where the average speed is the highest. That's where the police sets up their speeding camera. Not where speeding might present the biggest danger, but where the financial reward is the highest.
This confirms once more that speed traps are tax devices and not meant to make traffic any safer.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
Tom Tom does not need to submit any user ID. The police can build their own database from red light cameras and photo radar. Location, time, speed, database. Add in RFID in the tire pressure monitors and Tom Tom can make that claim with a clear conscience. This does not rule out the creation of a 3rd party database.
The truth shall set you free!
"We retain the right to alter the agreement for any damn reason we see fit at any time. Pray that we don't alter the agreement further. Any claims to be resolved by the laws of the state of Delaware by a mediator of our choosing, who you will pay for. You have no rights. Those are reserved for corporations, not people. Just hand over the money and nobody needs to get hurt. Click-through agreements aren't enforceable. But we can use them to bully you into not exercising your non-existent rights."
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Damn, I killed someone two hours ago, and the cops didn't catch me until now!
Folks can always go online to every place that carries TomTom and slam them in reviews creating awareness of what these guys are all about...
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
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"The GPS systems in TomTom's Live range all feature built-in 3G data cards, which feed location and route information back to a central server. According to CNET, this data, along with users' speed information, is being made available to local governments and the police.""
and then:
"TomTom says the data is anonymous and can never be traced back to an individual user or device."
Ok TomTom, if you're telling them my location, heading, and speed... don't you think it would be rather easy for them to figure out who I am? I can easily imagine a cop sitting on a highway with dispatch calling him "ignore the guy doing 70, there's a dude doing 85 3min behind him." And that's the simplest iteration I Can think of.
So Tom-Tom is receiving data from their GPS units. I find it hard to believe that they are the only one to think of this. Surely, if the data is that valuable, On-star is doing it, too. What about all the internet-enabled vehicles that are coming out? Someone should find out if they are reporting "blackbox" data as well. Seriously, if you are going to get stirred up about iPhones, Tom-Toms, cell phones and FBI tracking devices, shouldn't you also worry about On-star, Sync, and whatever it is that Toyota and Microsoft are cooking up?
Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
When TomTom is able to download this data it'll be only a matter of time before the police is going to download it next time you're stopped.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
This 'tracking' feature has benefits for the owner in that it allows the network to be aware of road congestion and to allow the GPS units to suggest a better route. It also could clue the police to where the traffic is congested and help them respond to emergencies or accidents. It also does allow officials to plan for road improvements and the police to know where speed enforcement needs to be deployed. To avoid privacy issues what TomTom needs to do is to make sure that no identification information (users GPS serial numbers) are transmitted. So long as my GPS sends any tracking/speed information anonymously I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Second, the summary suggests that Apple's location-tracking information isn't anonymous and could be traced back to an individual user or device... This conflates two distinct things: the data that you can find on your computer after syncing your phone necessarily can be traced back to that phone, but the data provided to Apple is anonymous and can't be traced back to an individual user or device. The fact that the information exists in one place in a non-anonymous form does't mean that it therefore exists everywhere in a non-anonymous form.
They give tickets for people who've run red lights and been captured by the camera. This would be no different. Electronic witness versus electronic witness. The camera doesn't lie... well, the GPS doesn't lie, either.
I've heard that (in Canada) their devices (radar guns, camera sites) require calibration/certification for usage in court. I wonder if the GPS data would be actionable.....
That sinking feeling deep in your gut when you KNOW you screwed up bad summed up with: {head desk} {head desk}
Most speed cameras are operated by vendors who get a piece of the racket, often the lions share of the fines. I wonder if TomTom owns an equity stake in speed camera vendors.
In most states only certain speed measuring equipment may be used to collect admissible data in speeding violation cases. The kind of equipment is usually spelled out very clearly in state code. GPS speed measurements are inaccurate and inadmissible in most states.
Someone figure out how this works and just upload random bullshit. Tomtoms are half hacked anyway, I remember loading a customized firmware on mine when I had one. Enough bullshit uploaded from enough phones/tomtoms/whatever and hopefully eventually the data becomes worthless to all but the most statistical scrutiny.
Could be a "fudge" mode that varies your true speed up or down by x percent
Could be a "sunday driver" mode that sets your max speed to 35mph/kph and lowers your true speed to a percentage of that speed
Could be "foreign holiday" mode which shows your location as Antarctica for most of the afternoon
Would probably need more work since if they're sending raw points and timestamps you would need to recalculate speed and position, possibly inserting more points or removing data points. I'm sure if it's possible to collect this data it should be possible to fake it. And of course if you make it too obvious it would be easy to detect and filter the bullshit values.
In the US, speed limits are legally to be set after the 85th percentile of actual speeds. So if everyone is speeding, the speed limit should legally be changed such that at most 15% of drivers will be speeding at that stretch of road.
This kind of data might just as well be used to help determine areas where the speed limit is wrong.
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Just wait until the divorce industry starts trying to get their hands on all of this.
By the way, I don't see how you can really anomymize location data. Traffic analysis will pierce that veil in many case. Let's do a scenario. Suppose a car leaves Senator X's house and goes to Miss Y's house at 11:00 PM, and does that almost every Wednesday night, and there is a return car (Y to X) every Thursday morning at 2:00 AM, but only on the days where the first trip was made. Suppose all of this information is revealed to a Supermarket tabloid. Is the fact that it doesn't actually have Senator X's name on it much protection ?
+1. My one quibble is that the question cannot be "is the data anonymous" but rather "could it ever be made non anonymous". My concern is even if that very big "if" is overcome and they prove their data is anonymous, could they also show they lack a way to tie a unique identifier to said data.
You've narrowed my choices. I'm in the market for a new GPS, and now I know which brand I will WON'T and will NEVER purchase! Nor will anyone else I know if I have my way! Why do companies think that making it so-called "anonymous" makes it ok to track your every move without consent?
To their credit, TomTom have already released a statement acknowledging that this was happening and promising to amend their contracts to prevent this happening in the future. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc_cGepf1qg
Also noteworthy, is they were not aware of this particular use of their data. They sell the data to governments and local authorities for use in applications such as traffic planning (where to build new roads, etc). The data was then passed on to the police dept who installed the speed cameras without TomTom's knowledge.
The driving force here is to get revenue from motorists (yes yes your not supose to speed, but cops have better things to do than stop speeders). It is sort of the privatization of what should be a public service. Like hospitals and prisons the profit motive does not make them more efficient, it makes them profit centers and not public service centers and the mission of the two is quite different. We see the same in politics with the Citizens United case fallout. Polititians are becoming profit centers and not public service workers. I think we have to pull back from this behavior or we will all have GPS pedometers and breathing meters to regulate and charge for those services as well.
You only have six points remaining on your license.
Recalculating... Recalculating... You only have three points remaining on your license.
How do we give TomTom a nice mug of STFU and don't resell, distribute or donate my information?
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
First paragraph:
Third paragraph:
Translation: We're complete morons
Um....what? You make this information available to local governments to make road safer, and then you are surprised that they use it.
I won't debate whether or not speed cams actually make roads safer. It's just a bit ridiculous to be surprised by the use of the data that was made freely available.
OTOH, maybe they were surprised that the local govt was clever enough to actually use the data.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
No sane person will ever say that information trails can never be recreated. Given enough pieces and enough disparate information channels a coherent whole can be formed. It's seldom a question of "can it be done" -- the question is whether or not its economically worthwhile to do it.
Time to chip in some information to this somewhat overhyped discussion: - The use of so called FCD (floating car data) is not new. It has been around in ITS (Intelligent Transportation System) circles probably for the last 10 years or more.
- FCD comes from sat-nav devices providing GPS traces which are typically send more or less in real time to a service provider. There is also a offline use case (also used by some TomTom devices), where compiled data is send in batch e.g. after you connect your device to your computer and use the software provided by the manufacturer. In the case of TomTom I know there is a note in the terms of service explaining this. - Similar to FCD, FPD (floating phone data) is derived from mobile phones checking in to different base stations when traveling in cars along a road. - In both cases the first step upon receiving data is to map match the traces to a digital road network. In the case of TomTom this will of course be its TeleAtlas data. - There obviously is a lot of filtering (using mostly statistics) done in this step. - In pretty much all use cases for FCD/FPD the interesting information is not the whole trace but the travel time per individual street link. - The most important online use case is to analyze the current traffic state one looks at the current average speed per link compared to the "normal" speed. If a lot of cars go a lot slower than they usually would, there is a traffic jam. - There are also mobile phone apps using this kind of crowd-sourced data to create traffic information (e.g. waze) - The offline use case is to provide traffic statistics for traffic planning and management applications. This is what the article above is talking about. - For this, TomTom aggregates data out of individual GPS traces. - There might be a theoretical chance that some TomTom employees could be able to track individual devices/persons. - Some devices (I don't know about TomTom) randomly change their ID at frequent intervals to make this impossible. - What was probably bought by / offered to the police was data that would tell the police what the average (or maybe highest detected) speed for any road or a subset thereof is depending probably on different day categories and e.g. per hour. - This exact same information can also be generated by traditional traffic count devices (inductive loops, side radar etc.). Of course the information is only available at the location of the count site and not on most of the road network like FCD generated data is. - Police's role/goal is to minimize speeding by enforcing speed limits using e.g. radar traps. Of course can data like this be used to optimize this effort. - Traditionally generated data from loops etc. is often provided to the police by the road operators (DOTs, municipalities, etc.).
So the police don't know it's you specifically, but when you speed you're still anonymously begging the police to come patrol the routes you frequent. I suppose most smart phones could be adapted do the same thing.
Your attempt to deceive other readers will only be convincing for those that don't click (or keep up with the news)
That's pretty rich considering you are the deceiver. He showed exaclty that Apple is not sending your data, all the stories point out (rightfully) that file in question is not data of where you've been, it's APPLE'S DATA (or a subset) showing locations they have recorded of various cell towers or WiFi spots.
You Apple Hater trolls are too rich, living in an alternate universe when nothing that you claim happen actually happened in ours. Here in the real world if a phone sees a new WiFi spot it sends that to Apple, without any info about you or your phone - just the WiFi spot, that you probably don't even own. Here in the real world you download a file from Apple containing locations of cell towers around you, which Apple had long before you showed up on the scene.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So let me see if I understand. My TomTom data, where the routes always start and stop at my house, is completely anonymized and can't be traced back to my TomTom. Hmmmm.
This way, there would be 100% guarantee that nobody would go to illegal speeds (not only maximum, but also minimum speeds).
With a good AI software or even more sensors, it could be used to detect drunk drivers or drivers suspects to be using a cellphone.
What would be the downside of that? could somebody explain?
The simple fact they turn it over to the police is a GROSS violation of privacy. This is just another example of the gradual eroding of your constitutional rights.
DON'T BUY TOM TOM.
My GPS can sometimes report the wrong speeds. Like right now it says the maximum speed I've hit is ~280 MPH.
;)
Fastest I've ever gone is 140, tops.
=================
Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
I am pretty sure this information is being collected simply to identify areas where people are exceeding the speed limit, so police can identify hotspots and times where this happens in order to more effectively police traffic.
There is nothing wrong with this, but the fact that TomTom:
A) Does not disclose this fact to customers before purchase,
B) May sell the info to Law Enforcement for profit,
C) Does not offer customers an Opt-Out option,
D) Does not offer any compensation to customers for supplying information, other than the services that they (the customers) paid for, that they are profiting from.
This is a very well-intentioned idea, and a good one at that, but the fact that data collection is being made involuntarily and covertly is a big screw-up.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
The reporting article is in the UK. Does anyone know the breadth of who TomTom is reporting to? US only, UK only, everywhere?
I guess Ill just have to strap my Tom Tom onto my sons remote control helicopter and fly it around.
Let then figure that one out.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
In California, it's illegal for a county to set a prima face speed limit that is lower than the 80th percentile speed, except under specific conditions (that only permit a 5-10 MPH reduction in speed.) It's also illegal to set a prima face speed that would make violators of the majority of drivers (E.g. the previous exception is over-ruled if the lower speed limit would make violators of 50% or more of the drivers traveling that road.)
This is done under the rather forward thinking idea that the majority of drivers on a road travel the road at a safe speed.
I wonder if the TomTom data could be used to invalidate some of our illegal speed limits?
Looks like TomTom gets to catch me speeding; my GPS will be moving over 100 miles per hour, straight down as I throw it off the nearest bridge. And here I had some respect for them.
You know, on the flipside, the TomTom also gives you a loud audible warning when approaching any intersection with a traffic camera.
They are selling out both sides of this war!
The current situation with these units is that they are designed to serve many parties' interests and desires, not just the users. And when there's a conflict, the user will probably lose.
It's not a slam-dunk, but I think that in the long haul, the users (at least the ones who care) are going to win on this. You're some day going to have small machines like this which are totally yours; even if the user has to flash it with their own audited copy of Meego or Android. On the tiny consumer electronics, I think people will eventually end up with devices they can trust, if they want to, even if we've suffered so many setbacks over the last few years. In this form, the problem is temporary.
Cars are a lot more interesting. There is already a long-established precedent of goverment-mandated equipment. GPS hardware and cell network hardware really isn't all that expensive, especially in the context of a car's overall pricetag. Take that thought to its conclusion, and what you may end up with, is your own TomTom or other-branded device which doesn't spy on you, but a car that does, and with legal risks if the owner "tampers" with it. And I think overall the public won't resist this. There won't be mainstream projects like CyanogenMod to upgrade your car to serve you as the highest priority. So in the end, Big Brother will end up winning .. when you are in the car. Take your handheld GPS unit camping, though, and Big Brother (as well as any other little brothers who exploit the system; remember what happened to Greece!) will only know where you parked.
The reason this isn't too alarming, is that use of cars almost always happens in public anyway. Hostile embedded electronics aren't the only sensors. If you speed, something may see you, regardless of whose side your car is on. To me, that makes securing our cars not a battle worth fighting. So it all goes back to, "if you don't like the speed limits, complain about them." Privacy advocates have bigger fish to fry than government's (arguably legitimate) desire to catch speeders. I'm not saying this is something to be happy about, just that it's not very important.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
B.S.!
1) Take 'anonymized' data of car speeding on given interstate at 7:35 pm, changing lanes at point 'X'.
2) Review traffic camera tape on given interstate at 7:35 pm, looking for the car that lane changes at point 'X'
3) Freeze frame.
4) Observe license plate.
5) thanks tom tom
STFU TOM TOM. If you actually wanted it anonymous, you wouldn't be sharing it at all.
Sure it starts anonymous. But add it being a gps, traffic cameras that record video, and that they can trace you with that pretty easily now. Yep. Just email a ticket back to the TomTom user and copy the PD.
Dang, used to like your devices. Didn't you ever hear of the rule of unintended consequences?
This is a very well-intentioned idea, and a good one at that, but the fact that data collection is being made involuntarily and covertly is a big screw-up.
If it were well-intentioned, they'd give the data to the highway engineers so they could set the speed limits to the 85% percentile of actual speeds.
This is just a revenue sharing model for improperly provisioned roads.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Get-a-get-a-get-a Garmin.
The individual traces aren't sent directly to the police. They are aggregated and average speeds for road segments per time slot are sold to local governments so they can improve their road network, e.g. see where there are too many traffic jams, and when a road is likely to have to be renewed.
Additionally, individual traces don't start at the start of the journey nor do they finish at the destination.
What bothers me is that they don't look at the number of people speeding through certain areas and then compare that the number of accidents caused in those areas where the root cause was speeding. If they found out that people are speeding in the area and NOT causing accidents, it's possible that the speed limit is set too low. But yes, it seems that most areas are only interested in making money through speeding tickets.
I once got a ticket for going 74km/h in a temporary 60 km/h area (road construction) where construction had been completed weeks before and the temporary restriction had been 'neglected' to be removed. Thankfully I was able to argue my case in a letter and the ticket was dropped, but certainly the authorities are more interested in keeping traffic slower than necessary for the sake of earning money.
If the State is going to encroach on our lives like this, why don't they drive the damn cars for us? Enter the destination and have a beer or two on the journey?
If you don't break the laws, then you'll have nothing to worry about.
And in related news, the number of TomTom units available for sale on eBay tripled last night
We're all full up on Crazy here...
Some facts about what aggregated (not personal) data tomtom sells and to whom for what purpose. Quite interesting, and I believe tomtom acts in the interest of all drivers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HRVZ9AAH2BU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc_cGepf1qg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-tzD00MWZ8&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rc12x-XlYQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbuHVnTcgFU