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Verizon Customers: Say So Long To Unlimited Data

BogenDorpher writes "Verizon will be eliminating its unlimited smartphone data plan this summer. No longer will one be able to pay $30 a month to have unlimited data. This move is designed to 'force heavy data users to pay more for mobile data.'"

303 comments

  1. Heavy users? by Totenglocke · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No, the plans will make most people pay more for data - they'll just really rape the people who actually used what they pay for.

    --
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:Heavy users? by purpledinoz · · Score: 1

      Wow, in Europe, prices are going down, while data rates are going up.

    2. Re:Heavy users? by kthreadd · · Score: 4, Informative

      It varies. Some are going down but overall most carriers have the same problem where their network just isn't designed to handle the amount of data traffic going on these days.

    3. Re:Heavy users? by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      Given what Verizon is charging for their newer mobile broadband or for the Xoom, their new phone data plans will be obscene. I know that the Xoom data plan starts at $20 / month for a measly 1 GB and goes up to $80 / month for 10 GB.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    4. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      In Finland, I have the slowest dataplan of about 500kbps, unlimited, in my phone, 4,99 €/month, going down. Unlimited unlimited is now about 10 € / month, or 14€ / month including an USB modem...

    5. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I propose modding you down as a form of revenge for you having a better society than us in the US~

      Maybe we could just block all non-US IPs~ <--- see the tilde? Good.

    6. Re:Heavy users? by MrEricSir · · Score: 0

      Speaking of heavy users, if there was an unlimited alcohol plan at the grocery store, they'd probably want to charge extra for the guy I ran into the other day who was drinking a homemade cranberry juice and vodka cocktail out of a 2 liter bottle at 3pm.

      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    7. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, a tilde is that thing that turns an n into an ñ.

      But what exactly has it to do with your failed attempt at humour?

    8. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was a heavy winner!

    9. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Consider -- 1. the only people on earth prone to wantonly suffix their sentences with a tilde are the Japanese. 2. It is a well known factoid that internet service in Japan -- mobile or not -- is almost ridiculously good, matched only by South Korea and possibly Sweden.
      I conclude that you are being mocked by a small yellow person with a phat pipe.

    10. Re:Heavy users? by Riceballsan · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Alcohol is a tad expensive to use for an analogy, what about an all you can eat buffet. Only difference, the price of food dosn't go down as technology upgrades, yet these buffets still manage to stay in business, despite not asking for more money from customers who weigh over 200 LBs.

    11. Re:Heavy users? by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      It's not unlimited in the sense that you can transfer an unlimited amount of data. There is generally either a set maximum data rate or the communication protocols at hand have a maximum data rate.

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    12. Re:Heavy users? by Surt · · Score: 1

      The price of food does go down as technology upgrades, or was that part of your point?
      And buffets stay in business by overcharging so much that even the biggest eater is profitable.
      If Verizon could charge $600/mo for unlimited (comparable price to eating unlimited at a buffet daily), then I'm sure they could make themselves profitable even for their heaviest users too.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    13. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aaw yeah, one of the few plus sides of having low population density.

    14. Re:Heavy users? by dingen · · Score: 1

      How is it possible their network isn't designed for data traffic? I mean, it's not like the increase of data consumption was completely unpredictable.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    15. Re:Heavy users? by siddesu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Unlimited" means that you pay a fixed price and can use the network up to the limits that are due to the technology and the infrastructure capacity, not that you can swallow up the whole Google Earth database over your mobile connection.

      All carriers I have used - in Japan and Europe at least - publish information about the maximum capacity for speed, latency, etc. on their "unlimited" connections. It is then their responsibility to ensure that such capacity is available. Most users of the network understand this, and have no issues with the technology and infrastructure limits; the fixed plan within these limits is good, because you can plan ahead, and don't need to make complex calculations before opening the next email or web page.

      There is no "tragedy of the commons" in this situation at all.

    16. Re:Heavy users? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Obscene? OBSCENE? That would be heaven to us here! $80/mo for 3GB (on top of the call plan) is obscene! $80/mo for 10GB would be incredible! It'd be cheaper than land lines!

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    17. Re:Heavy users? by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      Failed attempt? Not with me, I lolled a bit. He even points to the tilde, giving me hope he is joking (and jealous).
      I just hope he remembers no society is perfect. Couldn't give you the imperfectness of Sweden by the way.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    18. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says who? You think cellular networks predicted people streaming Netflix on cell phones?

    19. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much. I'm trying to figure out why, as demand for something increases, rather than increasing supply they continue to raise prices to reach equilibrium.

      Yeah, in the short term it might give them some breathing room but if they keep announcing faster and faster speeds without the ability to back it up, it'll lead to stagnation of technologies.

      The free market will provide?

    20. Re:Heavy users? by Ihmhi · · Score: 2

      Actually, a lot of buffets have instituted 90, 60, or 30 minute time limits.

      One of my best friends is the type who is in spectacularly fit shape yet has one of those envious metabolisms where he eats more than three people combined every day and doesn't really gain a pound. He's been kicked out of buffets numerous times for basically eating "too much food" (example: six plates of snow crab legs in one sitting). It's happened many times at different locales.

      The prices have been steadily going up which is understandable considering that food prices are going ever higher, but the service is actually being reduced what with the time limits and being ejected for arbitrary reasons.

    21. Re:Heavy users? by Confusador · · Score: 1

      It's worth noting that there are a lot of places that are buffets that do not advertise "All You Can Eat." Oddly enough, that's still pretty analogous to what's going on here with Verizon.

    22. Re:Heavy users? by ThePromenader · · Score: 1

      Not true! Numericable(.fr) just came out with an unlimited calls/unlimited data combo for only €29 a month.

      --

      No, no sig. Really.

      ThePromenader
    23. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very simple : SPECTRUM IS LIMITED. so, overall bitrate ressources are limited.
      DSL internet does not have this kind of overall bitrate limit for a given zone (more precisely, the overall bitrate of a zone is much higher)
      As a result of this, DSL internet can propose flatrates, mobile ISPs cannot on a large scale.
      It's simply not possible as a business model, so they proposed it for early adopters to make people dependant on it.
      Now, you will pay the real price of the scarce bandwith.

    24. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, great, you had me worried for a while. I thought they were going to discriminate against fat people, being the USA and all.

    25. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because it's worse in some other place doesn't mean it shouldn't and couldn't be better here. It's like saying "it's no problem that you got stabbed because in other places people get shot".

    26. Re:Heavy users? by zyzko · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't be sure about the going down part. Many telco-executives have talked about instituting data caps because people use too much (which is quite absurd because 1-2 years ago they pushed really hard to market usb sticks and 3G data as a replacement for cable/dsl and best offers where in the range of 7.99 / month with usb modem (unlimited) if you signed up for 24 months. Now they are slowly starting to whine. Want to buy an iPad on contract with unlimited data? Can't do that - they all have caps (except one carrier which offers an "iPad" SIM but incidentally they are not on the "works with" list at apple.com). Of course nothing stops you from buing your iPad retail without 3G SIM and just order a generic data card and ask for micro-sim.

      Yes, data is cheap here. I currently have a Galaxy S which I bought on contract which I usually don't do. 24 months term, eur 26,90 /month. Phone, plan with unlimited data (speed and amount) (I pay for my minutes and texts per usage (0,069e min or per sms), my usage on those is so low that no point of taking fixed package), and a second data-only sim (also unlimited) and a complimentary 3g usb modem. And the phone is unlocked from day 1 so as long as I pay the monthly bills I can switch carriers or use a different SIM when travelling.

      But the point is: The operators do want to get rid of unlimited data, that is their wet dream. But nobody dares to do it first for all their users, but they are turning up the heat slowly with iPad.

    27. Re:Heavy users? by teh+kurisu · · Score: 0

      The 3G networks were rolled out before the iPhone was announced. Nobody could have been expected to predict that phones would actually become usable for any amount of data use.

    28. Re:Heavy users? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Actually, one of the major carriers in NL announced that they will start charging extra for certain services such as Skype, Ping, and WhatsApp. Other carriers are eagerly following suit. The driver for this is not data congestion but the fact that these services eat into their traditional revenue, however they are already considering charging extra for data-heavy services like Youtube. In other words, throwing net neutrality out the window.

      On the plus side, EC commissioner ms. Kroes is still kicking ass and taking names, and just launched a proposal to cap outrageous data roaming charges in Europe to €0.90/MB, lowering this further to €0.50/MB in 2014. Current charges are typically over €2/MB (in some cases it's €10). That price cap is such that one can now comfortably enable data roaming when travelling within Europe.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    29. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sit down and prepare yourself for a shock:

      Smart phones existed before the iPhone.

      My Nokia E61 has been transferring via 3G and WLANs since 2006. It is still doing so. It doesn't even have a voice SIM, all it does is data. Five years solid data.

    30. Re:Heavy users? by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Hate to break it to you, but worldwide a LOT of mobile operators - who have historically operated a simple billing system of "customer uses more, we charge them more" have spotted that bandwidth has a habit of getting cheaper, noted that 4G essentially eliminates dedicated voice traffic altogether (it's all VoIP) and are more than a little concerned.

      There are two obvious solutions to this:

      1. Keep the bandwidth cheap and make up the difference in numbers by encouraging more people to use the network more.

      Paradoxically, this is quite expensive. Many operators already find that their network is bursting at the seams, and a significant capacity upgrade is financially out of the question.

      2. Find some way of fiddling with the traffic so you can advertise cheap bandwidth but at the same time massage its usage so as to keep the money coming in.

      I'm talking about things like blocking any sort of voice traffic except that which goes through their own network that they can charge you separately for - and using DPI to ensure skype can't get around this. You'd be amazed how poor things like SSL are at defeating this. If push comes to shove, the carrier will simply block any traffic that consists of a constant two-way stream of small packets going over a single connection - typical for voice, unusual for, say, HTTPS.

    31. Re:Heavy users? by Edzilla2000 · · Score: 1

      First of all, it's in euros, not dollars. Big difference. And then it's only if you are also with them for your cable internet(if you're not it's 50 euros), you're stuck with them for 2 years, only one person in the household may subscribe to the plan. Also, their "unlimited Internet" is capped at 500mb, their "unlimited voice plan" is capped at 99 different number a month, and the 3G speed is capped at 300kb/s. Amazing unlimited plan, right?

    32. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In Finland, I have unlimited speed (depending the network, currently 14,4Mbits down and 5,76 up) and unlimited amount, in my phone, laptop or anything else where I just can connect SIM card or my phone. 2€/month.

      The bad side is, my phone does only support 7.2Mbits down and 0,5Mbits up but as I can swap SIM card to any device, I sometimes swap it to my HSDPA/HSUPA capable 3G dongle for full speed. And this contract is valid for next 18 months...

      But now typical is 512Kbits/4,99€ with unlimited data amount for others. It is enough for mobile phones but computers not if wanted to use youtube or anything else video sites with good quality on laptop screen.

    33. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Unlimited" means that you pay a fixed price and can use the network up to the limits

      This is why I don't like this.

    34. Re:Heavy users? by siddesu · · Score: 1

      Well, I prefer a fixed plan and clear data rate limits (based on business or technological reasons) to a price per amount of data transferred. Making decisions when facing fixed constraints is a lot easier, and I have no extra time to waste on figuring out what is my marginal cost and marginal utility on a byte by byte basis. I much rather pay the provider to manage their resources and to ensure the promised data rate over a longer period of time than the TTL of a network packet.

      There are significant savings for the whole economy from transaction costs in this situation -- the phone company needs to optimize a much simpler problem than the mass of individuals facing a variable plan, and in a competitive market it has a very strong incentive to do so.

    35. Re:Heavy users? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't think most users understand this at all. When it says "unlimited" they take that to mean they can watch as many YouTube videos as they like, not "as many as you like so long as it isn't too many and there are not too many other people nearby using their phones and we have enough backend bandwidth and Jupiter is in ascendancy".

      I can give you a real world example. Virgin Media claims that their broadband is "unlimited" but actually the package I am on (10 meg) is max 1.5GB between 4PM and 9PM. Go over that and you are punished with massive speed reductions that makes iPlayer and YouTube unwatchable. There are four of us in the house and we hit that limit every other day. All it needs is for a couple of people to watch HD iPlayer streams or someone to download a game demo from XBOX Live and we reach the limit of our "unlimited" connection.

      10MB/sec speed is fine, 1.5GB of data during peek times is not.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    36. Re:Heavy users? by somersault · · Score: 2

      If they're going to implement high bandwidth technologies like 3G and HSDPA, they should expect that people will use them. What's the point in high speed access if you hit your usage cap in a day?

      --
      which is totally what she said
    37. Re:Heavy users? by xaxa · · Score: 1

      On the plus side, EC commissioner ms. Kroes is still kicking ass and taking names, and just launched a proposal to cap outrageous data roaming charges in Europe to €0.90/MB, lowering this further to €0.50/MB in 2014. Current charges are typically over €2/MB (in some cases it's €10). That price cap is such that one can now comfortably enable data roaming when travelling within Europe.

      For anyone who wasn't aware of this:

      So far, the EU has only set caps on wholesale prices for data roaming. There is a major problem — although wholesale prices have fallen below the regulated cap, retail prices remain way above wholesale prices, and the difference has even increased. In concrete terms, the wholesale price cap has been set by EU rules at €0.80 per megabyte since 1 July, 2010, and it will fall to €0.50 per megabyte as of 1 July, 2011. But although the average data-roaming wholesale rate (around €0.25 per megabyte) is substantially below the regulated maximum, retail prices remain around €2.60 per megabyte. That is a huge margin.

      From here.

      The existing cap with Orange UK (my network) is €50 when roaming, which is a massive 16MB. Since turning my phone on this morning I've already used 800kB, and I've not even done anything (presumably that's just from syncing my email, etc). I'm spending 12 days in Germany this/next month, and 5 in Czech. I shall need to get a local SIM (possibly two).

    38. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In soviet-Finland - I am currently paying 1€/month for the slowest 3G-dataplan (Elisa). (+15€/month for phone - but could have bought the phone in cash/provide my own phone).
      30$ sounds like *a lot*!

    39. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a small yellow person with a phat pipe.

      Years of study into the matter leads me to reject your conclusion as ridiculously improbable.

    40. Re:Heavy users? by johanw · · Score: 1

      The same in The Netherlands. Operators were pushing unlimited datapland for 10 Euro's, and were really pushing it last summer when I could get unlimited for 2,50 euro/month, or extra fast for 3,75/month (with fair use policy). Tethering and VOIP were not allowed but nobody checked as long as data use was not extreme (no torrents of BR images on your mobile). And now they are talking about extra charging for VOIP and SMS replacers like Whatsapp. :-( Won't take long before chat apps using SMTP/POP3 or https are programmed I assume.

    41. Re:Heavy users? by johanw · · Score: 1

      [quote]If push comes to shove, the carrier will simply block any traffic that consists of a constant two-way stream of small packets going over a single connection - typical for voice, unusual for, say, HTTPS.[/quote] That's where my own personal VPN server comes in.

    42. Re:Heavy users? by Kavafy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Virgin Media claims that their broadband is "unlimited" but actually the package I am on (10 meg) is max 1.5GB between 4PM and 9PM. Go over that and you are punished with massive speed reductions that makes iPlayer and YouTube unwatchable. There are four of us in the house and we hit that limit every other day.

      Isn't this the whole problem? ISPs should not be allowed to advertise their services as unlimited, because they can never actually be unlimited. They should be forced to state their usage caps clearly and up front, instead of pretending that something's unlimited and then hiding all the limits in the small print.

    43. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is so wasteful. People should only have as much data as they can use. We don't want all this extra unused data going to the landfill do we?

    44. Re:Heavy users? by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      In Finland, I have the slowest dataplan of about 500kbps, unlimited, in my phone, 4,99 €/month, going down. Unlimited unlimited is now about 10 € / month, or 14€ / month including an USB modem...

      Actually, I got an even slower dataplan for my daughter (we're also in Finland). It's a mere 384kbps, but otherwise utterly unlimited, and costs 3euro per month. Good enough for youtube, music, maps, etc.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    45. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I don't know how the data plans are named and sold in the US, but my Japanese data plan for example isn't called "unlimited", but rather "Fixed amount plan". There is a lot of explanation you have to listen to when you're signing up for a plan about the limits, the way the payment is structured, etc. I'd say if you listen carefully you get a pretty solid idea of how things are priced.

      I don't recall having problems with data access ever, except for a short time after the Tohoku earthquake two months ago.

      My experience in Europe is somewhat limited, because someone always buys the plan for me, but it has been a fixed amount plan since at least 2007.

    46. Re:Heavy users? by teh+kurisu · · Score: 1

      Usable smartphones did not exist before the iPhone.

      The E61 may have been a good smartphone in 2006, but it's a piece of junk next to the range of smartphones available today.

    47. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Basicly they wanted to have their cake, which they would then sell you and eat.

    48. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, maybe high speed access for burst or non-sustained data protocols (e.g. HTML, VoIP, voice chat). Bob who browses Facebook all day uses < 10GB/month on his PC but still occasionally benefits from a 10Mb+ connection.

    49. Re:Heavy users? by Eggplant62 · · Score: 1

      No, I think you mean this:

      s/This move is designed to 'force heavy data users to pay more for mobile data.'"\ /This move is designed to 'force heavy data users to go elsewhere for mobile data.'"/

      Thank you very much. Have a nice day.

    50. Re:Heavy users? by jimicus · · Score: 1

      No problem, they'll block IPSec unless you're on a more expensive business contract.

    51. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody?!

      The law is named after Intel co-founder Gordon E. Moore, who described the trend in his 1965 paper

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moores_Law I think there is an equivalent for mobile networks.

    52. Re:Heavy users? by rah1420 · · Score: 2

      >>He's been kicked out of buffets numerous times for basically eating "too much food"

      You been here FOUR HOUR. Son-of-a-bitch!

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
    53. Re:Heavy users? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Yes. I complained to the ASA about it but they decided that because everyone lies about being unlimited under the guise of "fair use" then it is okay for Virgin to do it. I might try again by pointing out that their "fair use" policy isn't very fair, and is actually just to cover up the deficiencies in their network.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    54. Re:Heavy users? by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      Virgin Media claims that their broadband is "unlimited" but actually the package I am on (10 meg) is max 1.5GB between 4PM and 9PM. [...] There are four of us in the house

      Right. So it's not the package "you are on" but rather "the four of you are on". Maybe that's the problem.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    55. Re:Heavy users? by intheshelter · · Score: 2

      Sit down and prepare yourself for a shock.

      Despite the fact that the Nokia E61 existed in 2006, it obviously failed to make much of an impact on the wireless landscape. The poster was correct in that the iPhone and then the addition of Android phones have been what have caused this sudden data explosion.

    56. Re:Heavy users? by Captain.Abrecan · · Score: 1

      There is nothing the iPhone does for me that even a samsung sch90 flip-phone could not do for me in 2005, please step away from the iCrack pipe. Calls? Texts? Media Texts? Pictures? Video? Flash for photos and videos? Syncable Calender? Reminder Alarms? Contacts List? Bluetooth? Flash Card? E-mail? Web? Music? Verizon TV Player? Games? All yes. The iPhone is a superficial and shallow status symbol, nothing more.

    57. Re:Heavy users? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      It's still able to stream music from the Internet all day, which would definitively reach the cap. Whether it's as good as a smartphone today is more or less irrelevant.

    58. Re:Heavy users? by Jaysyn · · Score: 2

      Exactly. As much data as the cellphone providers have on their customers, there really is no excuse for not being able plan for expansion where it is needed.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    59. Re:Heavy users? by dingen · · Score: 2

      Ok, so the 3G network was rolled out before 2007. I get that. But it's 2011 now. You're saying 4 years isn't enough time to scale up your network to meet current bandwith demands? I'm not buying that.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    60. Re:Heavy users? by js_sebastian · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't be sure about the going down part. Many telco-executives have talked about instituting data caps because people use too much

      They can talk all they want, but in a competitive market (which some european countries have, like finland and austria and even the UK) they would not be able to raise prices without losing customers and money. Of course, if the US had a competitive market people wouldn't be paying 100$ a month for a plan... in europe nobody pays more than say 35 euros a month, and that's for a bells-and-whistles plan with free ponies on the side.

    61. Re:Heavy users? by teh+kurisu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's a great feature list, but it has nothing to do with my argument that there were no usable smartphones before the iPhone.

      I still have my old Samsung SGH-Z560 flip phone. It has most of the features that my current iPhone has, but actually using those features is an absolute nightmare. it was built with a checklist like yours, an not the user, in mind.

    62. Re:Heavy users? by js_sebastian · · Score: 1

      I can give you a real world example. Virgin Media claims that their broadband is "unlimited" but actually the package I am on (10 meg) is max 1.5GB between 4PM and 9PM.

      If they advertise that as unlimited then they are in for a good spanking...

    63. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      design it for data and not expect it to take off? they need to fire that person asap

    64. Re:Heavy users? by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      How is it possible their network isn't designed for data traffic? I mean, it's not like the increase of data consumption was completely unpredictable.

      To play devil's advocate, data usage had a *sharp* increase in the last couple of years. Their upgrade plans probably didn't account for it, and now are having to play catchup. Networks are huge, so between the lag before noticing "our network is going to max out sooner than thought" and actually doing something about it, a lot of time passes.

      I'm not saying it was the iPhones fault, but at least in the US the timing matches up. The iPhone made smartphones more popular and more mainstream, and other companies started getting more into the smartphone game. Kind of like there were mp3 players before the iPhone and they were a little popular, but Joe Sixpack didn't start buying them in droves until the iPod fad hit the nation.

      All of a sudden you had a huge number of users that were starting to use data services that never even considered doing it in the past... and that number is growing and growing. Then you had people that maybe just used their phones to check their mail and the weather, and now they're using it for everything including streaming Netflix.

      At that point it because a race between the increasing demand, and the current bandwidth + the old plans for upgrading.

    65. Re:Heavy users? by dingen · · Score: 2

      It's not about what the iPhone and other phones can or can't do. It's a fact people weren't generating a lot of traffic over mobile data networks before 2007. Whether or not the iPhone is responsible for this to change isn't really relevant. What's relevant is that the change is clearly there: mobile data traffic has been steadily rising in the last years and there's no indication of it slowing down significantly any time soon. My point is this: network operators know this and have known the whole time. They know how many phones and subscriptions they sell. So why the hell isn't their network prepared to actually offer what they're selling?

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    66. Re:Heavy users? by teh+kurisu · · Score: 1

      Ah, no, you miss my point. It's not about what a phone can or can't do, but how many users are actually using those features.

      Current networks were designed based on data usage patterns from before the iPhone was released. Back then, very few people were using the data-intensive features that phones had, because they were difficult to use.

      Nowadays, those features have become much easier to use, so more people are using them and more data is therefore being transferred. The networks are having to deal with more data traffic than they were designed for.

      So it's not the phone's capabilities or features that are the issue, it's the usability.

    67. Re:Heavy users? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      They saw that AT&T rapes their customers and had no backlash, so they want to get in on the rampant raping. Just wait, all the others will do it as well. It's like printing money.

      Until Americans stop being sheep and rolling over for whatever the big business does to them, this is only going to get worse.

      If you do not complain you are telling Verizon and the business world, "Thank you! Oh tHank you so much, can you charge me more for something else now as well? Please? Pretty Please?"

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    68. Re:Heavy users? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      No angry Birds..... FAIL!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    69. Re:Heavy users? by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      The thing is, I'm a user, so I don't really care how hard it is for them to upgrade their networks, or notice when they need to. I don't care why they need to, or which phone caused it. I'll admit to being a little skeptical at the idea that they didn't see any of this coming because I and a lot of other people did the first time we picked up a useable smartphone, and we don't even work in the industry.

      Anyone who used WAP browser one day and mobile Safari the next would have to be an imbecile not to see this coming.

      If anything I think the carriers are shortsighted in trying to rein in data use. They have an opportunity to entrench a lifestyle that is depedent on the always on wireless internet connection that they provide. They could have multiple generations of people who view their product as being as essential to their daily lives as TV is today. Or cars or gasoline. They could be putting the coke back in coke here, but instead they are telling people to use less of their product.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    70. Re:Heavy users? by ThePromenader · · Score: 1

      Pfffft - looks like you read the fine print for me ; P All the same, 24€ is around $17 nowadays. And yes, the "only with home combo" and "unlimited but limited high-speed options" imposition sucks too; basically, at the end of the month, you'll have no VOIP and will have only Edge for the web.

      FWIW, I'm hooked up to a 'real' unlimited mobile plan (with Orange), but it costs me €72 ($50) a month.

      --

      No, no sig. Really.

      ThePromenader
    71. Re:Heavy users? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      We have competition in most countries of Europe. Real one. Neelie Kroes is just too damn scary for telcos to even try.

    72. Re:Heavy users? by Edzilla2000 · · Score: 1

      Right now, 24 euros is about 34 dollars, not the other way around...

    73. Re:Heavy users? by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Come on, while you might have a point if he was talking about his 5 roommates using 100s of GBs, 1.5GB is a ridiculous quota. There is no way they should be selling 10mb/s until they have a robust enough network to deliver 500kb/s.

    74. Re:Heavy users? by Stewie241 · · Score: 2

      Spectrum is limited, but you can gain a lot from shrinking your cell size so you can reuse the same spectrum more.

    75. Re:Heavy users? by teh+kurisu · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure it was ever 'designed for data', that's just how it's being used. 3G networks were designed for video calling.

    76. Re:Heavy users? by teh+kurisu · · Score: 1

      More like, it's not enough time to make a satisfactory* return on the original investment involved in rolling out 3G before putting more investment into upgrades.

      Bear in mind that, if your customers are all on 'unlimited' packages, you will see zero return on any investment in additional capacity.

      This might be more true in the UK than the US, mind you. The UK government, in its infinite wisdom, decided to auction off 3G licences, and the networks blew so much money on the licences that they could barely afford to roll out the networks. They expected to make the money back on expensive video calling, which (probably because of the cost and lack of a timely roll-out) never took off.

      * Your definition of 'satisfactory' is likely to be lower than the networks'.

    77. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to be facetious, but if that were true why bother spending the money on the infrastructure required for 3G/LTE? If you're anticipating minimal immediate usage with no growth, you don't invest in the technology. If you're anticipating minimal immediate usage for a new technology that is then assimilated into culture, you spend the money. What you were trying to say is the telecoms failed to properly predict the prevalence and adoption of web-savvy smartphones and under-designed the network. And this would mean ALL telecoms (since everyone's doing this limited data BS).

      This is the point at which we again say "stop lining your pockets and get back to developing infrastructure properly". Again, foreign telecom customers laugh at US customers for the snowjob we take (yes, I know everyone has their own issues, but jeez our infrastructure blows).

    78. Re:Heavy users? by Kizeh · · Score: 1

      And that's the part I don't understand: I really like the Nordic/European model where your usage is unlimited, but you get a speed cap determined by how much you pay. In the US everyone gets full speed for the first half day, and then either gets cut off or has to pay ridiculous overage charges. You'd think at least one carrier in the US would get with the program and start selling unlimited use but limited speed plans.

    79. Re:Heavy users? by VolciMaster · · Score: 2

      Nobody could have been expected to predict that phones would actually become usable for any amount of data use.

      Really? I'm *sure* LOADS of people have been expecting/predicting this for years on end - even before 3G

    80. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Go over that and you are punished with massive speed reductions that makes iPlayer and YouTube unwatchable.

      And that's how the "unlimited" data plans U.S. mobile carriers offer should be limited.....NOT by charging more.

      What consumers REALLY want when they choose unlimited is, "I want a fixed, known cost every month." We're all still afraid of those exorbitant bills you'd see ten years ago when you accidentally used too much data or talked for too many minutes.

      Dial the bandwidth back during peak times and I'd have no problem in the world with it.

    81. Re:Heavy users? by GooberToo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Says who? You think cellular networks predicted people streaming Netflix on cell phones?

      You mean like what has been advertised on television since 3G services were turned on around the world? Naw...there's no way they could have known people would use the exact service they claimed to be offering.

    82. Re:Heavy users? by Zwerker · · Score: 0

      Also in Finland, I too have a 512 kbit (actually ~600 kbit according to speedtest.net) and pay 5,80 €/month, including a complimentary ZTE Blade (=Orange San Francisco). Two year contract, mind you.

    83. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HaHaHaHaHaHa ! (etc.) But too ridiculous to even be a joke. All the reaction that zinger will get wil be really, really scornful laughter. Hungry dawgs get real angry, and mean, real quick.

    84. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 3G networks were rolled out before the iPhone was announced. Nobody could have been expected to predict that phones would actually become usable for any amount of data use.

      Well, nobody who wasn't using N-series smartphones, which were and are quite popular in Europe. The N95 (especially with Opera) was such a huge step forward from the competing phones of the time, or the high-end Nokias of just a couple years prior, that any fool could predict a future of fully usable phones.

      And from another angle, anyone who'd watched the 7710/770/N800/N810 progression (granted, that's only a handful of turbonerds) could have predicted the N900 as far as it matters for this. (The N8x0 were already capable of the same >10GB/mo. data consumption, but needed WiFi or a tethered phone since they could not connect to the mobile network directly.)

    85. Re:Heavy users? by webheaded · · Score: 1

      This is bullshit even if they advertise it up front. They should be spending all that money they make on upgrades instead of dicking us all around with this. I'm lucky that Cox Cable in Phoenix hasn't gone all nazi on us, but I'm sure it's coming. I know they must be salivating watching all these other companies impose data limits and rake in the dollars.

      --
      "Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BenF
    86. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the plans will make most people pay more for data - they'll just really rape the people who actually used what they pay for.

      I actually have little problem with tiered pricing for *mobile* data. Even with 4G, capacity is somewhat limited. What I DO have a problem with is the rediculous levels these tiers have been set at in the past, as they seem designed to get even the lightest user of mobile data to pay at least the $30/mo they were paying previous, while still penalizing those sucking down 10gb/mo. (Have their cake and eat it too)

      Charge me $15 for the first GB of data a month, and $5 for each GB after that -- it's simple, reasonable and benefits light data users while charging heavy users for their choices.

      Of course simplicity and reasonability are not things telecoms are known for...

    87. Re:Heavy users? by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      500 kbps is about how fast Verizon typically goes and between the voice/texting and data plan its about 70 USD total.

    88. Re:Heavy users? by Duradin · · Score: 1

      "The thing is, I'm a user, so I don't really care how hard it is for them to upgrade their networks, or notice when they need to. I don't care why they need to, or which phone caused it."

      You want your bandwidth now, big, and cheap, no matter the cost (to them) to do it. Score one for "enlightened" self-interest.

      "I'll admit to being a little skeptical at the idea that they didn't see any of this coming because I and a lot of other people did the first time we picked up a useable smartphone, and we don't even work in the industry."

      The first time you picked up a usable smartphone was the first time there was a usable phone to suck down unprecedented amounts or resources. Those evil telcos can't just snap their fingers and have new equipment just appear when and where they need it.

    89. Re:Heavy users? by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      Someone's sig a while ago suggested that we use a ~ at the end of a sentence to indicate sarcasm/snarkiness over the internet, as it doesn't always translate well.

    90. Re:Heavy users? by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      Are you really that confused? There were tons of very usable smart phones well before the iPhone was considered for designing. You may be drinking the coolade, but you are wrong. Windows Mobile, Palm, BlackBerry, and many others were quite usable and worked wonderfully. Having to use iPhones for work, I would even say they are quite a bit less useful than the old WinMo phones, with WinMo, you could run any software you wanted. Want a tether app, sure no problem.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    91. Re:Heavy users? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Um, the networks all advertised it for data when the data portion of 3G was released, they knew it would get used, they failed to upgrade. Stop making excuses. AT&T was actually much worse at it than Verizon, somewhat due to the technology differences, but AT&T still failed at upgrading.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    92. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An increase of data usage was certainly predicted, the magnitude of the increase was not. I am not an expert on the subject, but its way harder to add bandwidth to a wireless network than it is over a physical network. Its fairly simple, though not cheap to do it on land- just lay more lines. Wireless has a finite amount of spectrum and thus bandwidth though.

    93. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Except that they've been making billions of dollars for decades with government granted monopolies and have been given TAX DOLLARS for the EXPRESS PURPOSE of expanding and upgrading their infrastructure and now they're whining because they spent all the money paying their executives OBSCENE salaries/bonuses. Score one for big-business apologists.

    94. Re:Heavy users? by teh+kurisu · · Score: 1

      Oh come on, Windows Mobile was a desktop paradigm shoe-horned into a pocket device. These devices may have been considered usable at the time, but they don't compare to modern smartphones.

      Would it please your Apple-hating sensibilities if I said that everything I've said about the iPhone in this thread could equally be said about Android?

      And again, you're mixing up 'usability' and 'usefulness'. They are two different things.

    95. Re:Heavy users? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      A reasonable definition for "unlimited" is all you can get. It's like an unlimited bus pass: it doesn't guarantee that a bus will come when I want, or that there will be an available spot on the bus, and it certainly doesn't mean I can ride for more than 24 hours a day. I have an unlimited plan for my iPhone, but that doesn't mean I get a good connection.

      Your Virgin Media example sounds like false advertising. They do have a limit that they deliberately impose.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    96. Re:Heavy users? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      You can say it about whatever phone you like, and you are wrong. Do you really think that with the high percentage of Windows users in the market people would have trouble using a Windows OS on a phone? Usability isn't that big of a deal. Many of the phones were touchscreen and/or keyboarded. I had a flip with a numeric keypad and never had issues using it. Palm was also incredibly useful, and BlackBerry was the high water line of usability for years before iPhone (or Android) ever came around.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    97. Re:Heavy users? by teh+kurisu · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, I'm not in the States so I don't know what those two networks were advertising.

      Here in the UK, light web browsing was about as much as the networks thought people would do with data (excluding video calling and MMS). The browsing experience on features phones was woeful. It might have been better on the smartphones of the time, but smartphones were a small niche in the market.

    98. Re:Heavy users? by Peristaltic · · Score: 1

      If anything I think the carriers are shortsighted in trying to rein in data use.

      I don't think it's so much a case of reigning in data use than it is manipulating the situation to keep a commodity relatively scarce and expensive (profitable)

    99. Re:Heavy users? by teh+kurisu · · Score: 1

      Usability isn't that big of a deal.

      I'm sure that's what MS and RIM thought.

      Now, BlackBerry is haemorrhaging users, and Windows Mobile has virtually disappeared off the map.

      Meanwhile, Android and iOS are the strongest platforms on the market.

      (I'd put Palm's failure down to undesirable hardware rather than anything to do with WebOS.)

    100. Re:Heavy users? by sonicmerlin · · Score: 1

      Well if your government forced VM to line-share and competitors sprouted up, VM would eliminate their policy very quickly.

    101. Re:Heavy users? by Peristaltic · · Score: 1

      Took me a while to find a reference... But you should read "How the Phone Companies Are Screwing America: The $320 Billion Broadband Rip-Off" before you jump to their defense.

    102. Re:Heavy users? by dingen · · Score: 1

      That was the situation of 2006 ~ 2008 maybe. Today however, there is no excuse for not having a sufficient data infrastructure to offer a decent experience on modern smartphones, because that's what's being sold. If you can't handle data, then don't offer it to customers.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    103. Re:Heavy users? by Asm-Coder · · Score: 1

      56000 kbps / 8 bpB * 60 s/min * 60 min/hr * 24 hr/day * 30 day/month =
      18 144 000 000 bytes per month == 18 GB/month
      $25.34 for phone plus $11.60 for dial-up =
      $36.94 for 18 GB per month

      Yeah, so thats at continuous use, but it wouldn't be cheaper than land lines. (offer not valid in all places, local rules and restrictions may apply)

      And about your sig, may I direct you to: The FAQ.

    104. Re:Heavy users? by NateTech · · Score: 1

      Where would they go? AT&T is bad. T-Mobile is being bought by AT&T. Sprint with their awful coverage?

      --
      +++OK ATH
    105. Re:Heavy users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although VM don't have to line-share the formerly government owned, one-time monopoly BT does, VM have plenty of competitors. Quite frankly, I think VM's policy of throttling heavy users during peak periods (y'know like 4pm-9pm) is the best way of handling high demand, a 10MBps connection throttled to 2.5MBps (which is what VM do) is still actually quite usable, even for streaming video just so long as you don't want HD, and if he wants more bandwidth, he should pony up the cash for a better connection (their top-tier 50MBps service doesn't even have throttling). You could argue that VM should upgrade there network to handle peak traffic, but then they'd have to raise their prices to fund it (it isn't like VM makes excessive profits, the former cable company's that merged or bought out that eventually went on to become VM didn't make any real profit for many many years) and if VM raised their prices they'd quickly lose customers and go out of business.

      TBH, I'm not actually a fan of VM, their customer service can quite often be lousy, but their traffic management is one of the more sane and rational ones, throttling heavy users during peak periods makes more sense than saying you can download 250GB this month, but if you hit that cap in your first week of the month you are SOL or have to pay extortionate overage fees, because that doesn't limit traffic when it needs to be limited.

    106. Re:Heavy users? by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      Do you suppose Verizon et al would reciprocate, if I were to care? Do you think if I called them and said I'd have a tough quarter and wouldn't be able to fund my full invoice, that they would be understanding?

      I care about them as much as they've ever cared about me. Which is exactly enough for me to fulfill whatever contractual obligation we have between us provided they fulfill theirs.

      So no, I don't care and I don't believe that is based in enlightened or unenlightened self interest. It is based on me not being able to feel too bad for the difficulties encountered by a gigantic nameless faceless corporation with an architecture that is exactly as its designers intend. If it is too hard, quit and give someone else a chance.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    107. Re:Heavy users? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Nah, it'd be cheaper than land lines...

      56000 kbps / 8 bpB * 60 s/min * 60 min/hr * 24 hr/day * 30 day/month =
      18 144 000 000 bytes per month == 18 GB/month
      $49.95 for phone plus $9.95 for dial-up =
      $59.90 for 18 GB per month

      Of course, you'd need to account for the fact that after 4 days at 24 hours, the ISP cancels your account for violating the "fair use policy"...

      My sig, by the way, specifically relates to the "disable ads" option provided to those who browse Slashdot a lot. If you have the option available, subscribing removes it. And if you have it enabled, then subscribe, the subscription negates it.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
  2. Money Grubbing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why not just turn us upside down and shake us? There would be slightly more dignity in that, at least.

    1. Re:Money Grubbing by Gideon+Wells · · Score: 1

      For some, yes, maybe, I don't know?

      I have to be honest here. I've been monitoring my data use and I barely go above .269 gigs, or 275.13 mb, according to Verizon's tracking of my data. This is a heavy months so I might break .5 gigs. And you know what? Because I have a smartphone now Verizon is FORCING me to pay the $30 a month for unlimited data. With tiered pricing, *goes to read the article to see how much he'll save* ... for frack's sake.

      I'm tempted now to upgrade to a tethered plan while I am grandfathered in and downloading the entire net twice.

      --
      by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
  3. I would like to remind everyone by assemblerex · · Score: 3, Informative

    That virgin mobile has unlimited internet plans starting at $25 a month, plus you can carry over your existing number.

    1. Re:I would like to remind everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      And by unlimited, they mean unlimited connectivity to up to 5GB per month, just like sprint, their parent company.

    2. Re:I would like to remind everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, unlimited 5GB... But even if it would be *unlimited*, do you think one carrier would do such a stupid move if he would not *know* for sure, that the other carriers will follow??

    3. Re:I would like to remind everyone by timothyb89 · · Score: 2

      Just being picky, but... depending on the plan, Sprint's data can actually be really unlimited. Any device with the extra $10/m 4G addon gives you real unlimited 3G/4G data.

    4. Re:I would like to remind everyone by dbet · · Score: 1

      I'll add that Virgin also charges you the advertised price. If it's $29.99, you'll pay that plus sales tax. With every other company, you pay "fees" that amount to almost $10 in addition to the advertised price.

      However, the downside is they have very few phones to choose from. Like, usually less than 5.

    5. Re:I would like to remind everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To add further, the 10$ addon charge now applies to all data packages, upon renewal or activation, even in markets and devices that are not capable of 4g. Also, though the fine print states the old plans were limited, my research indicated they only enforced that clause against data cards and hotspot devices, not against phones.

      I went a couple months relying solely on my phone's tether for access and used 8-12GB per month, for three months in a row and never heard a peep from sprint about it. No, I do not have the tether option on my bill. I pay only for minutes, and unlimited data/msging.

    6. Re:I would like to remind everyone by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Just being picky, but how long do you figure that will last? I'd wager at least half of the capped data plans started out as "completely unlimited". Once someone in the higher ranks of corporate sees dollar signs in his eyes, Virgin might falter as well.

      However, let's say that Sprint is pretty much the last holdout among wireless carriers. They really do offer truly unlimited and use this as a marketing tactic. Unless they have a significant amount of people moving over to them for specifically that reason, they will lose out to the other companies who are screwing over a (currently) minority of users who expend a lot of data. At that point Sprint will either fold, stop doing the whole "unlimited" thing, or keep doing it but remain in a pathetic, underpowered last place among the major wireless carriers.

      Despite this, we have three things working in our favor.

      One, bandwidth is getting cheaper every day. New devices are constantly designed, new and better codecs are thought up, etc.

      Two, the proliferation of things like Netflix, Hulu, Steam, YouTube, etc. means that for the last 5 years or so people have been getting more and more used to getting the media they want when they want.

      Third, the last one or two generations of people have a tremendous sense of entitlement. They will literally whine their way to victory.

    7. Re:I would like to remind everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have used 88 + GB per month on Sprint for 4+ consecutive months. The speed gets capped at 5GB but they still provide unlimited data.

    8. Re:I would like to remind everyone by tyrione · · Score: 1

      And by unlimited, they mean unlimited connectivity to up to 5GB per month, just like sprint, their parent company.

      Virgin Mobile is a brand that uses various Networks, around the globe. Sprint in the US only.

    9. Re:I would like to remind everyone by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Is it really unlimited though? T-Mobile claim that theirs is but actually the limit is 3GB per month.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:I would like to remind everyone by MorbidBBQ · · Score: 1

      1) The speed is capped after 5GB/month, so I don't need to worry about not having data access, or paying extra. 2) VM is $25.00 per month plus sales tax (7%). If I bothered to bring up an old verizon bill, any one of the many taxes exceeded $1.75. 3) VM currently has 2 reasonably priced android phones in their lineup.

    11. Re:I would like to remind everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You push buttons and talk to people, how many phone options do you need? The differentiation between phones is trivial.

    12. Re:I would like to remind everyone by maxume · · Score: 1

      Grandparent was talking about Virgin Mobile USA.

      That company is wholly owned by Sprint, I'm not sure how the branding deal is structured.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    13. Re:I would like to remind everyone by 0racle · · Score: 1

      All of these reasons are why I'm kicking Verizon to the curb.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    14. Re:I would like to remind everyone by Mitreya · · Score: 1
      And by unlimited, they mean unlimited connectivity to up to 5GB per month, just like sprint, their parent company.

      That's a little misleading. They did change their plan to 5G instead of unlimited. But once you hit the 5G limit they throttle you rather than cut you off. I am not sure to how much, but you can still use the internet after 5G, so it is half-bad.
      For all I know, other providers might be throttling me before I hit 5G (or I could be slowed by other users)

    15. Re:I would like to remind everyone by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      What you describe sounds like collusion...

      Isn't that illegal...

      Too bad the Dems and Reps can't get Corporate America's nuts out of their mouth long enough to do anything...

    16. Re:I would like to remind everyone by soupforare · · Score: 1

      I'm happy user. Yeah the phone selection isn't awesome but for $25/mo I'll run my Intercept until the thing blows up.

      --
      --- Do you believe in the day?
    17. Re:I would like to remind everyone by dlenmn · · Score: 1

      It was initially a partnership between Sprint and Virgin Mobile, but sprint bought them out and paid to keep the name.

    18. Re:I would like to remind everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's $29.99, you'll pay that plus sales tax

      When the gas pump says $25, then I pay exactly $25. The price includes sales tax. It is fabulously convenient. Why does this not happen with any other product?

    19. Re:I would like to remind everyone by kipin · · Score: 1

      I recently left Verizon and switched to Virgin Mobile and picked up two LG Optimus V Android phones. They are a GREAT deal. They have a 600mhz processor and have not encountered any issues running and apps.

      I'm now paying $50/month for my girlfriend and myself to have two droid phones with 300 minutes, "unlimited" data and text messages where as I was previously paying $50/month for 1 phone on Verizon with 400 minutes, unlimited text messages and no data. (That was after a 25% corporate discount!) On top of that she was paying $100 a month with T-Mobile for unlimited everything. I'm saving over $100 (between us two) and getting more useful features that I use.

      If any of you are off contract (another benefit to VM -- they don't have contracts) I would strongly suggest looking at Virgin Mobile and their Android phones, I believe they have two to choose from, one from LG (which I have) and one from Samsung.

      --
      If I can not smoke in heaven, then I shall not go. -- Mark Twain
    20. Re:I would like to remind everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erm, we are talking about data access. The differentiation between smartphones is not trivial.

    21. Re:I would like to remind everyone by imric · · Score: 1

      And what happens when you go over?

      I prefer that.

      --
      Paranoia is a Survival Trait!
    22. Re:I would like to remind everyone by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You can't watch any streaming media or use the Android market, plus browsing is even slower than usual.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    23. Re:I would like to remind everyone by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      You can't watch any streaming media or use the Android market

      Does this also apply to phones not purchased from T-Mobile? If so, then how do they implement it?

    24. Re:I would like to remind everyone by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It is a network level block at their end.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    25. Re:I would like to remind everyone by imric · · Score: 1

      Funny I can watch TV.com and use the market when that happens. It's just slower.

      --
      Paranoia is a Survival Trait!
    26. Re:I would like to remind everyone by imric · · Score: 1

      No it's not a block. It just uses a slower connection.

      --
      Paranoia is a Survival Trait!
  4. Always about squeezing out more profits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Once they work every angle for increasing profits they go after the handful using more than the average. Once they screw over that handful where will they go next to increase their bonuses? The companies are profitable it's it's this sick need to increase profits every year so they can justify multi-million dollar bonuses. Millions suffer so a handful can claim big bonuses.

    1. Re:Always about squeezing out more profits by MadKeithV · · Score: 2

      Once they work every angle for increasing profits they go after the handful using more than the average.

      That "handful" is and always will be about 50% of their users.

    2. Re:Always about squeezing out more profits by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      That "handful" (using more than the average) is and always will be about 50% of their users.

      No. 50% of users use more than the median. If you have 100 people downloading one GB or less, and one person downloading 100 GB, then the average is more than one GB, and only one of 101 users is above average. Kicking off that one user would significantly reduce the cost, and the 100 users would fully agree with that.

    3. Re:Always about squeezing out more profits by magamiako1 · · Score: 2

      If you have 100 people downloading < 1GB each, and one person downloading 100GB, where's the problem?

      No, the problem is over subscription. To even consider blaming the end user (no matter their usage) for this is obscene and disgusting.

      But it's nice to see company shills taking over slashdot's comment boards. How much do they pay you to talk out of your ass?

    4. Re:Always about squeezing out more profits by magamiako1 · · Score: 2

      Oh, and another fact:

      There's a strong chance that user won't even give a damn. They're not going to curb their usage because of a minor increase in the bill. They just pay it.

      So in the REAL world, this does nothing.

      FYI: I'm a pretty "light" user of my iPhone. I have an "unlimited" plan grandfathered in but I keep up with my usage occasionally to see where I sit at. I don't really use it all that often. That is, any sort of heavy downloading I usually only do through wireless. I browse the occasional website on the phone, I use the GPS and e-mail more than I use anything else on the phone.

      My current usage this month? 435MB. AT&T's data plans? 250MB and 2GB. Now think about that for a minute there, long and hard. There is no possible way that any person humanly possible uses less than 250MB of data on their iPhone unless they don't have an iPhone. I only on any really rare occasion actually use my phone for more than GPS or e-mail, and I'm blazing past 250MB. But according to their "research", "MOST USERS USE BELOW THIS." How is that possible?

      I can only imagine that "poorer" people use much more of their phone than I do, the average person listening to music over youtube while driving in the car, etc. Downloading songs all of the time.

    5. Re:Always about squeezing out more profits by MadKeithV · · Score: 1

      You are right of course - it's why I said "about" and not "exactly - in a large enough sample set that is more or less normally distributed, about half of the people will be using more than the average. Now, it IS possible that phone bandwidth usage is a massively skewed distribution, with a lot of people somewhere on the low end, a few people using several orders of magnitude more, and nothing in between.
      In that case, those people in the high-end spike would be complaining to high heaven.
      Probably on slashdot.
      That was my mistake, right? ;-)

    6. Re:Always about squeezing out more profits by wmbetts · · Score: 1

      I'm confused. Only poor people stream music with their phones or download things with them?

      --
      "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me". - stolen from Dan C alt.os.linux.slackware
    7. Re:Always about squeezing out more profits by Carthain · · Score: 1

      . There is no possible way that any person humanly possible uses less than 250MB of data on their iPhone unless they don't have an iPhone.

      Really? Out of curiosity, are you getting those numbers from your Service Provider? Or from your phone? (I've heard of providers claiming higher amounts than the phones indicate.)

      My phone (yes it is an iPhone - 3GS) says that I've sent and recieved 4GB of data ... since Sept 09. That's an average of ~180GB per month (assuming I didn't punt horribly on the math somewhere.)

      Granted, that's higher than I expected, but it's well enough below the 250MB per month cap that, if that were my cap, I would still have some room to do more each month (on average.)

    8. Re:Always about squeezing out more profits by Glendale2x · · Score: 1

      I just looked at my usage for my Sprint EVO and I'm at 700MB for my billing month ending on the 22nd. I never stream, watch videos, movies, etc. on my phone. I use it primarily for web browsing, email, and work stuff (i.e. ssh and vpn, downloading PDFs for reference). I'll email pictures, too. I also use apps like Fandango, Google Maps, and Parcels to track packages. I hardly use wireless. I don't even really feel like I use my phone all that much.

      --
      this is my sig
  5. Heavy users? by Ostracus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A finite price for something "unlimited"? Interesting. Tragedy of the commons comes to wireless.

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
  6. Advertisers by countertrolling · · Score: 1

    Does your phone download all the ads from mass media sites like your regular browser?

    If so, for what it's worth, you all should raise holy hell about it... or use only the wifi, if the phone has it... then watch them raise their rates to make up for lack of use.. like the water companies are doing due to 'excessive conservation'..

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    1. Re:Advertisers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't look at ads on my computer, except for Hulu, and I don't look at them on my phone either. Root the phone, and install AdFree. Problem solved.

  7. Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "This move is designed to 'force heavy data users to pay more for mobile data.'""

    No, this move is a result of the recent mergers in the industry and the reduced competition.

    1. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's both.

    2. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This likely wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the mergers.

    3. Re:Wrong by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      It also likely wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the money.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  8. Australia's just been suffering for a long time by unreadepitaph · · Score: 1

    Aussie telcos raped(still rape) their customers with DATA prices. Only recently have we started to get unlimited caps for mobile, but even then as soon as you roam you get charged through the teeth. It's sad that the US companies decided to go down this path, but they're gonna start posting some record profits so maybe it's a good time to invest.

    --
    My internetting is no good.
    1. Re:Australia's just been suffering for a long time by Grail · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is that even with caps on data, the Australian mobile carriers are still screaming like stuck pigs about their customers having the audacity to actually use the quota that they've been sold!

    2. Re:Australia's just been suffering for a long time by Nursie · · Score: 1

      I'm with virgin. Pre-paid. $19 gets you 1GB (with the usual "$50 value!" of phone usage thrown in.

      That's pretty much all I need for a month.

    3. Re:Australia's just been suffering for a long time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm with virgin.

      No wonder... You post on /. , don't have time to take care of that virginity near you <wink>.

    4. Re:Australia's just been suffering for a long time by Lifyre · · Score: 1

      They already DO post record profits. ATT posted 19.9 billion USD profit in 2010...

      --
      I'll meet you at the intersection of "Should be" and "Reality"
  9. Let me correct this by Mostly+a+lurker · · Score: 2

    "Verizon will be eliminating its unlimited smartphone data plan this summer. No longer will one be able to pay $30 a month to have unlimited data. This move is designed to 'force heavy data users to pay more for mobile data.'"

    This move is designed to 'force heavy data users to find a better phone vendor'.

    1. Re:Let me correct this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This move is designed to 'force heavy data users to find a better phone vendor'.

      AT&T? Ha, joke is on you, America!

    2. Re:Let me correct this by erice · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This move is designed to 'force heavy data users to find a better phone vendor'

      Nah. That's being taken care of. T-Mobile is being borged into AT&T. Sprint will be soon be extinguished or merged out of existence.

      Verizon and AT&T will join together in the monetization of data users. The unlimited plans were just a temporary measure to get their users hooked. Now the surviving duopoly will apply frighteningly expensive overuse fees to encourage their addicts to pay out big bucks for large plans. It worked so well for voice. Did you expect anything else?

    3. Re:Let me correct this by versificator · · Score: 1

      i did exactly that when O2 here in the UK started hounding me for exceeding their 4GB limit on their 'unlimited' tariff. so i heard about giffgaff (which funnily enough, is an MNVO that runs on the O2 network and is in fact a wholly owned subsidiary of O2) yet they offer truly uncapped data with their 'goodybags'

    4. Re:Let me correct this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, they could in a few years find themselves in a position similar to the record industry.

      Imagine wi-fi hotspots becoming more of the norm and then you could see people opting for tablets and devices similar to the iTouch sneaking in.

      People using Skype or similar apps for phone and going back to IM.

      They could push the market to go back to using phones for phone calls and other systems for handling email.

      I don't think these executives realize how quickly the smart phone could turn into a luxury item, that the chick can do without. If they ever push that tipping point, they could see their profits drop like an anchor in the Mariana Trench.

    5. Re:Let me correct this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My thoughts exactly. The title should read, Verizon Customers: Say So Long to Verizon!!

      Sprint and T-Mobile have unlimited plans that have almost always been cheaper than Verizon... People can "hear me now" on those networks just fine nowadays.

    6. Re:Let me correct this by imric · · Score: 1

      Why do you think 'walled garden' app stores/markets exist? You don't think that's covered? And you don't think your ISP has plans to throttle every service that competes with theirs on your wifi anyway, as soon as that pesky net-neutrality is laid to rest? What? You thought you were paying for data, a commodity, rather than endpoints (big media)? Sucker.

      --
      Paranoia is a Survival Trait!
  10. Welcome to Australia... by Lord_of_the_nerf · · Score: 3, Funny

    We're also upgrading your service with Oceanic Lag, shaped broadband, taking 100 or so of your cable channels and cutting off Huvu.

    All complaints are to be directed to 'Telstra', which I've been assured is Australian for 'Know Your Place, You Filthy Peasant'.

    1. Re:Welcome to Australia... by Rockets84 · · Score: 0

      Don't forget charging you double for all your Games and licensed software!

    2. Re:Welcome to Australia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No idea what this has to do with Verizon getting rid of its unlimited data plan...

      However as a Australian (not with Telstra though) I get what I pay for with my broadband. I pay for MB/256kb adsl and I get consistent and reliable 1.5MB/256kb adsl. I don't have to pay random taxes and surcharges on top of my monthly cost. My plan does not get changed at the whim of my provider. I do not have my torrents throttled. As far as I am aware of, my connection has no DPI on it. I have never run into a website which has been blocked by anyone other then myself.

      I prefer shaped broadband to having overage fees. If I go over my 25gb on-peak/25gb off-peak download limit, I get shaped to 256kb/256kb. I don't get charged at a ridiculous rate for any data overage. Not to mention that the shaped plans are advertised as shaped plans. None of this "Unlimited Broadband" *tiny small print* Unlimited plans limited to x GB of downloads/uploads per month.

      As for Telstra, I'd compare them to a USA phone company (if I remember right, the current CEO is from one of the USA media companies...).

      Regarding the "Oceanic lag", its not really a issue beyond doing stuff that is latency sensitive. Who cares if a webpage takes 100ms longer to respond? It's not like we can just break the laws of physics and send data at faster then light speeds...

    3. Re:Welcome to Australia... by wmbetts · · Score: 1

      Sensitive much?

      --
      "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me". - stolen from Dan C alt.os.linux.slackware
  11. This is why communications should be socialized by mozumder · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Communications is a basic government service, as spelled out in the US constitution.

    At this point, government should just buy-out Verizon. They're only a 100 billion company, tiny compared to the annual federal budget.

    Let's limit the power of private companies to create megabusinesses through government intervention.

    We need more government in our lives, and less freedom of choice.

    Remember, freedom is code-word for corporate control.

    I trust the hard-working government more than I trust lazy private companies.

    1. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The anarchist in me cringes... take two problems and just make it one really big problem? No. Corporations tend to be inherently corrupt, yes. But governments also tend to be inherently corrupt. I'd rather have two inherently corrupt beasts butting heads with each other over which one will receive control over me than a single beast taking the control over me however it sees fit. At least with the two butting heads with each other, there's potential for me to escape without significant enough notice as the two busy themselves with each other.

      The better solution is to get rid of them both and ditch the internet... oh shit. *clicks Post Anonymously* ... I'm sorry Slashdot...

    2. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      This being the same government that is spending hundreds of billions on foreign wars, and maintaining outposts throughout the world. Not to mention many redundant organizations within said structure, and managed to pass a health care bill that is worse than not having it, oh yeah, and the patriot act... wonderful pieces of legislation all. Sorry, but you as a consumer always have the option to vote with your wallet when it comes to a corporation. That isn't so with the government who will take your home or stick you in prison if you don't pay.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    3. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by mozumder · · Score: 1

      Indeed, because the only thing you can "vote" on is consumer spending.

    4. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by myotheridislower · · Score: 2

      Without that health care bill, I wouldn't have health care at all right now. I have a pre-existing condition and can't afford coverage but I get to stay on my parents plan a little longer and then will have an insurance plan fully, or mostly, subsidized by the government. There are bad parts about the plan, mainly because it didn't go far enough toward a true public option, but it has helped many people like me.

      --
      The Pirate Bay is my App Store.
    5. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Informative

      I trust the hard-working government more than I trust lazy private companies.

      This is a false dilemma. You shouldn't trust either. The fact is when you give too much power to one person or group of people, they will eventually abuse that power.

      The advantage of corporations is you can switch to another one if you are dissatisfied. There's only one government, but the advantage there is if you want to change something, you can convince enough other people that it should be changed, and then change it.

      Each has its advantage and disadvantage in different situations, don't make the mistake of assuming one is better than the other. They are both bad.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Rather than have the government take over yet another aspect of our daily lives, I would propose that the better solution is the same thing that many net neutrality advocates offer when asked about how to handle the vicious, uncompetitive monopolies that dominate the home internet business.

      Buy out the networks. Buy out the wireless towers and infrastructure. Make upkeep the responsibility of the government just as the roads, rail, power, and phone lines are. Let the carriers compete for access, just as we would have ISPs compete for it.

    7. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by Confusador · · Score: 1

      I don't see how you're disagreeing with the GP. You're saying they're both bad, he's saying one is worse than the other.

    8. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by c0lo · · Score: 1

      The anarchist in me cringes... take two problems and just make it one really big problem? No. Corporations tend to be inherently corrupt, yes. But governments also tend to be inherently corrupt. I'd rather have two inherently corrupt beasts butting heads with each other over which one will receive control over me than a single beast taking the control over me however it sees fit. At least with the two butting heads with each other, there's potential for me to escape without significant enough notice as the two busy themselves with each other.

      Wishful thinking in the near future. Maybe it was so about 20 years ago, times did change (for worse).

      The better solution is to get rid of them both and ditch the internet... oh shit. *clicks Post Anonymously* ... I'm sorry Slashdot...

      Can we, please, stop after getting rid of them and keep the internet?

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    9. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have an issue with product through which you cannot vote with your wallet.

      Frankly, ATT, Verizon, they offer basically the same thing, but I CAN legitimately choose to go without said service if corporate behaviors become unacceptable.

      Services with which it would be considered irrational to go without (police, fire, medical, public transit, electricity, water) are, for the most part, run by the government in most countries because 1) the natural monopoly they create and 2) the necessity of the service outweighs the benefits of competition and the challenges of instituting regulations on private industry in order to make these services "fair". The US generally chooses to privatize electric and medical services, for what reason isn't exactly clear. I get shitty care from Kaiser. My alternative is to ask my employer to pay double (double, beyond already high 9% of gross revenue!?!?!?WTF!?!) to get a better plan with United Health Care, that is still pretty shitty.

      Sure, the US is a great country to be sick in if you have $400,000 in the bank to pay out of pocket, otherwise, prepare to wait for UHC or KP to process your forms in roughly the same bureaucratic nightmare that every country with socialized medicine has... but be prepared to watch your insurance pay double (per capita) what would be paid in those countries, and to witness several people asked to leave the ER who are refused service because they cannot pay.

      That's a fucked up system. *shakes head*

      If communications were anywhere near as fucked up in this country as the health system, yes, I would want the government to intervene.

      I don't see another alternative. If it was an absolutely essential service to a normal modern life, and cost almost triple here what it does in other countries for only marginally better (and often worse) service, I would be furious and demand change.

      Why the fuck aren't you?

    10. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Work on your sarcasm. This is a nice start, you've got some real promise here, but it just goes a little too far to be believable even for a Slashbot.

    11. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Your idea isn't necessarily the worst one I've ever heard, but I'd point out that rail, power, and phone lines are generally maintained by private companies, not the government. (The TVA and some little municipal phone systems come to mind as public or semi-public systems.)

    12. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Yes, but even here in New Jersey I have choices to, say, get my heating from someone other than PSE&G. You can't exactly use a Verizon service on a Sprint network without some sort of hassle. (Thankfully, B.S. roaming charges seem to be less and less prevalent.)

    13. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unlike roads (for which claims can be made that government ownership has been more negative than positive), most rail (aside from Amtrak, and even then they use a lot of private rail sections), power, and phone lines are NOT owned/maintained by the government(s) in the US - are you referring to Europe? Maybe you are thinking about the fact that the rights of way are licensed/sold/granted by governments, but after that is up to the providers to provision and maintain them.

      We need more FREE enterprise, not BIG enterprise, whether corporate or governmental.

    14. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahhhh. I sense a subtle irony in your tone.

      Let's make something perfectly clear, cowboy; the government is structured so that it ALLOWS private ownership of capital, not MANDATES it. In essence the USA is a communist government run by the Rich(tm) and the Rich(tm) have written the laws so they control all of the capital.
      So, the government of the people (that's you, cowboy) have seen a need in the market (cell phones with data connections) and decided that Verizon, et al, should be the ones to provide the service. At any time the government COULD reach in an gut Verizon or AT&T or Sprint or any other carrier simply by passing laws that the carriers need to follow.

      In essence We the People(tm) can decide what Verizon can do with a few letters to the right people.

    15. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry. Where in the Constitution does it say "Communications is a basic government service"?

      If you are referring to the post office, then I dont see where that translates to downloading stuff off the internet.

    16. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Look at it this way: do you think warrantless wiretapping is bad now? Wait until the phone networks are owned by the government.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    17. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by LittleLebowskiUrbanA · · Score: 1

      You're trolling, right?

    18. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes because I have so many corporate options to switch to in the mobile phone industry. Right now my options are rock and hard place. Hooray for the free market.

    19. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, you think so? I just checked this morning - Comcast is still my only option in my area. So I'm forced to be a Comcast customer or....live without phone, television, and Internet.

      Yeah, that's a realistic choice.

    20. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by keith_nt4 · · Score: 1

      I don't know if I like that idea. I mean in California it's private companies that do the phone, power and rail and supposed to government for roads. And our roads are shit. Maybe your idea with an independent audit on a lowest bid. But that's Cali. It's pretty F'd up.

      --
      "UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
    21. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by sjames · · Score: 1

      Recent history suggests that I can't vote with my wallet. Either there's 2 "choices" almost exactly alike or I "vote with my wallet" only to have the worthless behemoth buy out whoever I go with so I end up right back where I was with one less choice.

      It's pretty much to the point that if you want to "vote with your wallet" it means living in a cave somewhere, except that's illegal.

    22. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by sjames · · Score: 1

      Who says that any government service must be a monopoly? They are now, but they don't HAVE to be.

    23. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      lol what are you saying, that we should have competing governments?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    24. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by sjames · · Score: 1

      No, a government telecommunications infrastructure providing baseline services on a non-profit basis and private entities providing premium services on top OR if it's economically viable, directly competing service.

      If they cannot directly compete economically, it means government is doing it's job well and they will need to focus on premium services. If they can, they will, and government is being inefficient, but there are better alternatives out there.

    25. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Ah, so kind of a public option for wireless service? The problem is that if the government is being inefficient, then taxpayers will end up subsidizing it, much like happens with Amtrak. I'm not sure I want my tax dollars to go towards an inefficient communications network, especially when cell phones are something even homeless people can afford.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    26. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by sjames · · Score: 1

      It doesn't have to be a matter of subsidizing the service, it should be non-profit, but should not run at a loss unless it can be shown to be providing a valuable and necessary service that would not happen otherwise.

      Amtrack's problem is that it tries to nickle and dime itself to profitability. It might be successful if it would admit that it's time to spend to build a high speed rail system that people will actually use and be willing to pay for. (actual high speed, not "high speed")

      I do agree that Amtrack isn't getting the job done. The last time I needed to travel for business up the east coast, I looked at Amtrack. They wanted MORE than an airline ticket AND couldn't make the trip in less than 24 hours. I ended up renting a car because I needed to take a server and a heavy tool bag, and I hate the TSA. I would be too tempted to give then a big Seig Heil, which might cause an "unanticipated delay".

    27. Re:This is why communications should be socialized by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Hmmmmm I see. I suppose it could be done, but I think it would require competent people to be in charge, and right now I feel politicians would make decisions about the non-profit based on political reasons, not on practical reasons (much like public radio lost funding recently for political reasons, not based on any practicality). It would require civil servants to become civil servants again, seeking what is best for the country over what is best for themselves, and I'm not sure that's going to happen.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  12. I want my Razr back by mcescalante · · Score: 1

    Time to make the move. I thought Verizon would at least have the courtesy to grandfather all current data plans and let us stick with the $30 unlimited plan, but I guess not.

    It's not that I'm a data whore and that I plan on slurping 10GB a month on my phone (I actually use under 300MB a month), it's more just the concept of being metered and having to check and worry about what I'm using.

    That said, all major phone carriers are really making terrible decisions right now, and I should just move back to my silver Motorola Razr that I had 3 years ago and have a few hundred minutes and texting.

  13. this just makes me sad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And I don't even know why.

    Its as if all the joy and light is being sucked out of the world one by one. And I'm running out of places to turn because the general public is stupid enough to accept it.

  14. what's wrong? by PixetaledPikachu · · Score: 1

    We used to complain that service providers advertise "unlimited dataplan" while putting cap and implementing "fair use". Now they admit that they can't sell you unlimited dataplan, why do we keep complaining?

    1. Re:what's wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it's still a shitty business practice, they're still ripping you off and they can still get away with it due to lack of any real competition.

    2. Re:what's wrong? by myotheridislower · · Score: 1

      Because we want them to use some of their record profits to expand coverage and capacity so they can both promise and deliver unlimited data. They really shouldn't be given a choice considering much of their infrastructure was either paid for by the government or made possible by a government granted monopoly.

      --
      The Pirate Bay is my App Store.
    3. Re:what's wrong? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Just because they're not lying as much doesn't mean they're offering anything like a good deal.

  15. caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can it be a problem if everyone has the same 5 gig cap.
    I dont understand can someone explain.

  16. It's not an unlimited resource by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It takes resources to provide the bandwidth so what is so unreasonable about charging for the bandwidth? Otherwise the light users are subsidising the heavy users. There are always scarce resources to be shared. At least this model provides a way for costs to be recovered without screwing with priority of data or throttling.

    1. Re:It's not an unlimited resource by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least this model provides a way for costs to be recovered without screwing with priority of data or throttling.

      Except that they're going to do that, too. They are also lying about how "scarce" this resource really is, so that they can turn their shitty service into a profit center instead of actually earning the billions they're raking in.

    2. Re:It's not an unlimited resource by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      The ISPs that do this are trying to essentially control the rate of technological progress. They want to be the ones throttling it to maximize their own profits, only raising their caps when it is the most profitable for them to do so. They set the caps a lot lower than "necessary". It has also been established that a lot of these companies have been lowering the amount of money spent on network upgrades in the last decade and they're still screaming about not being able to supply the bandwidth being used by their customers...

      Try again to guess which side of this conflict is bad.

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    3. Re:It's not an unlimited resource by Surt · · Score: 1

      That's fine. Just stop advertising it as unlimited and I'll stop complaining.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    4. Re:It's not an unlimited resource by spudthepotatofreak · · Score: 1

      The thing is though, costs of providing bandwidth and general technology is always getting cheaper, faster, better. However, those cost savings are not getting passed onto the customer like they should. Last I heard the cost for an ISP to deliver 1 gig of traffic was around 1 cent.

  17. Given that unlimited isn't... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...doesn't this just mean they're finally being honest about the product they're selling?

  18. Dear Providers, by drolli · · Score: 1

    please just forget all flatrates. IMHO Flatrates should be forbidden, because they are misleading at best. Flatrates are bets that 50% of the users will never go close to the limit where it would be not profitable (you dont need more than 1GB if you just have private email and open a few times per month a web page - but hey, exactly these people are the ones you can scare in the shop - they will overpay you to be sure not to overpay even more). This bet is not getting fairer by declaring "heavy users" afterwards and changing the contract conditions.

    If mobile providers would be forced to compete by a single, transparent Money/GB value (maybe slightly regressive with amount of data, but *not* a factor of 10 or 100), and the customers would be free to choose the mobile phones independently, we would be spared from all this shit.

    1. Re:Dear Providers, by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      If mobile providers would be forced to compete by a single, transparent Money/GB value (maybe slightly regressive with amount of data, but *not* a factor of 10 or 100), and the customers would be free to choose the mobile phones independently, we would be spared from all this shit.

      The phone company will always charge some amount to cover the cost, plus some amount that is profit. The actual cost is so many dollars or cents per GB, plus some fixed cost of having you as a customer, plus some cost to find out what your payment is. At the moment their cost to find out how much you should pay is zero. If you start metering, then you need to do it precisely because people will complain if you overcharge them, and then it gets expensive. So if you had 100 people paying x dollars each for a 3GB data plan for a total of 100x dollars; these 100 people would have to pay more than 100x dollars when the traffic is metered. Obviously everyone actually close to 3GB would have to pay a lot more. Everyone at or above average would pay more. For a 3 GB plan, the average is likely something like 1.2 GB. Since the total cost goes up, a 1 GB user would now pay the same as they paid for the 3GB plan.

    2. Re:Dear Providers, by drolli · · Score: 1

      I dont think that monitoring the data use precisely is a big problem that it would be a big increase. In Germany one company has a 100MB for 2Euro/month package and their estimation (after that: throtteling) did not differ significantly from what i measured on my computer.

      If it would so expensive to meter it exacty that offer would not work out.

    3. Re:Dear Providers, by sjames · · Score: 1

      Many people prefer to just pay an amount they can afford and not worry about it till next month. They don't want to have a meter ticking over every time they press a button. They don't want to rent a chair of pay a nickle for the door at an office building. There's a reason it's called being nickle and dimed to death.

      We would be better off if phones weren't locked to a particular network by both technology and dirty tricks. If you could just stick another sim card in and be switched AND they were forced to stop bundling a new phone with a long contract, they would actually have to compete a bit to keep customers.

  19. It could have been worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Along with this, VZW was also working on changing billing, so you would also get charged for the data you consumed when using Verizon's own applications. In short double-dipping... charging you for the application, and then charging you for the data their application used.

    It was full steam ahead, and only a couple months from implementation across the board, when the federal government stepped in and started "investigating" with the obvious threat of legal action. VZW immediately took it off the table, and never spoke of it again. The pieces are all still in-place, though. Though I can't predict with any certainty, I fully expect this to come out of hiding the moment a more "business-friendly" (lazy, harried, corrupt, Republican, whichever) administration takes over the helm of the US Gov.

    So, this post will be here with my prediction, and a solid rebuttal the next time someone tells you the government never does anything good for the people, that we should eliminate the government and trust big corporations to do the right thing, or that all political parties are the same.

  20. not really a suprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For years phone companies have been selling data plans advertised as "all you can eat", but pricing them based on assumptions of low average use. This obviously doesn't add up.

    The companies have the following choices:

    1) Choke off data rates according to a secret amount of (un)fair use
    2) Be honest about this ("data rate reduced to xMB/s after yMB of download per month")
    3) Price the plans according the belief people will actually use them as advertised (duh!)

    or

    4) Get out of the "all you can eat" market altogether.

    Personally I'd prefer (2), but I guess the companies think they can't compete by being honest in their advertising...

  21. Forcing 'heavy users' to pay more... by Chas · · Score: 1

    Wasn't this what the damn $30 "unlimited" plan was doing already?

    Oh wait. Nobody likes when one points out the elephant in the room. Silly me!

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
    1. Re:Forcing 'heavy users' to pay more... by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      yeah the correct wording would be.. "forcing heavy users to pay even more". they're addicted, they can be gouged, that's probably the plan.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  22. To all you Verizon customers who laughed... by DavidD_CA · · Score: 1

    To all you Verizon customers who laughed at us AT&T customers when we lost our unlimited data plans... ... suck it!

    --
    -David
    1. Re:To all you Verizon customers who laughed... by celery+stalk · · Score: 1

      Lost? Don't know about you, but my unlimited iPhone plan is still going strong. I'll see if they allow me to keep it when the iPhone 4GS/5 comes out, like they did for folks when the 4 came out (which I skipped).

      --
      aaaand...whee!
  23. wifi magic jack laptop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just get a laptop with wi-fi and a magic jack.

  24. It's simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As long as there are traditional ISPs with unlimited data, there will be mobile providers with unlimited data.

  25. So long, Vzn. It's been swel. by Caspian · · Score: 1

    But I guess I'll be moving to Sprint this summer. That Evo 4G is looking mighty sexy right about now.

    --
    With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
    1. Re:So long, Vzn. It's been swel. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the Evo 3D (the sucessor to the Evo) releases in June....

  26. Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by RanceJustice · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Over the past 3 years or so, nearly every nationwide Mobile provider in the USA has castrated their data service. "Unlimited" data used to be slower, EDGE or early 3G a couple years back, but despite the expense you didn't have to worry about overages. Now it seems only Sprint (perhaps?) has an "unlimited" plan. ATT and Verizon, switching over to these capped bandwidth isn't simply to save money or keep network congestion down, but rather its the same impetus that had the 80s and 90s phone companies charging 25/c a minute for long distance - to jack up fees on a monopolized industry under the guise of "paying what you use". While true "unlimited" plans were few and far between over the last decade, they usually simply transitioned to slowing your connection speed if you were using a ton more data than most at an inconvenient time. Now, you're paying per kilobyte for overages, on top of stupidly high costs of data plans. Look at how even the iPhone 1's original data plan compares to those today - it was a $20/month unlimited option with 200 included SMS! Now, you're looking at well over $80, plus SMS packages for the high-end "5gb of transfer" plan! .

    The problem is simple greed and it infests our entire system. Corporate giants for years told users "buy our new DSL/Cable/Fiber/3G/4G service.. and download more, more more! Get your movies! Get your music! Play Games" (Even when there wasn't much legal digital distribution, mind you). Not only did they benefit from upping subscription fees and only selectively rolling out broadband to the highest ROI areas, they also petitioned (read as: bought) government subsidy for "infrastructure improvements", common carrier agreements and more. Now, they figured out that instead of actually using our double-dipped tax dollars and subscription fees to actually expand infrastructure and give people the connectivity they want, its simpler to simply say "Sorry, you just can't download more than X per month. Yeah" and pocket the rest. Prices go up, service comes down and the user is meant to lick the boots of telecoms that have fucked over this nation's information infrastructure. There is only one solution.

    We need to take that money and control out of the hands of private companies, and invest it in We The People. Nationalize our entire information infrastructure. Prior to Eisenhower's Interstate, the physical roadway system was heading towards the same kind of mess as today's information highways - unpaved roads, shoddy maintenance, only serviceable where profitable, and tolls were levied constantly. Even the fucking ROMANS figured out that the first thing to do when expanding their empire was to nationalize the roadway system and kick all the bandits collecting tolls along travel pathways the hell out. Those bandits are just named ATT and Comcast today! Right now, the wire in the ground, despite the fact its is lain with my tax dollars, is the property of a private company, which squelches competition. There's not a piece of "Big 4" infrastructure that is not taxpayer funded in some way, so we need to simply nationalize what we already own! Then we can start rolling out true universal broadband initiatives and give our nation competitive speeds and coverage. There can be a role to play for private industry, able to lease access to the public hardware to create ISPs, with the stipulation that they must simply be a "dumb pipe" and maintain neutrality - however, private industry should never forget who their masters are - We The People through our Government - rather than the Government being a toy of private moneyed interests. Some form of this is how most European and Asian nations have ascended to gigabit broadband speeds while much of our nation is floundering with 256k and big spenders in the most cosmopolitan areas are paying $50+ monthly for 20mb.

    Telecoms aren't going to stop clenching their grip until we break their fingers.

    1. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by Idbar · · Score: 1

      The way I see it is, like gas companies, they jack up they prices and see how much people is willing to pay. Since people keeps paying, they don't seem to find a problem. Seems to happen inevery industry. Unluckily, these two are the ones breaking profit records every quarter.

    2. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We need to take that money and control out of the hands of private companies, and invest it in We The People."

      FYI - private companies ARE "We The People".

      The problem is that there are so few private companies that offer this technology, so they can pretty much set whatever gouging rates they like.
      What we need are MORE private companies offering the same service. Then we will see the prices drop and, most likely, it will once again be true 'unlimited'.

      However, there are those in the current US Gov who are for fewer companies, with higher costs to the consumer and higher benefits to the Company CEO. Those are the people that need to be removed from office.

    3. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by aujus3 · · Score: 0

      Yeah, cause the government getting involved always makes things better, without fail, every time! The Fed has the Midas touch! Yay for nationalism! Screw dirty profiteering and job providing. That stuff is just wrong. Don't allow stupid consumers to voluntarily choose to pay their money to companies like Verizon that bend them over and have their way with them, that's just not fair, and it's certainly not the consumers' fault! It's the fault of the EVIL CORPORATIONS!!! We need to be forced by the gubmint to pay for stuff for us, cause they obviously and always know what's best for us! Stupid free market system! Down with what made this country great! Abolish all freedoms in the name of good intentions, I say! The rich can afford everything we need! And if they won't volunteer their money we'll just TAKE it! That's the American way!

      --
      There are approximately 6,775,235,700 different kinds of people in the world.
    4. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by jbolden · · Score: 1

      The problem from their perspective is that the usage has changed:

      1) Files are bigger
      2) The internet itself is much less bursty. We went from webpages which were very little data for lots of read time, to streaming movies where the ratio is constant usage. So pooling matters less
      3) The original iPhone plans were much too cheap. AT&T lost money and still couldn't service the demands

      Cell phones are dependent on population density in terms of costs and the US much more expensive than Asia and Europe: http://urbancongress.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/worldpopulationdensitybycountry.png

      I agree with you on the advantages of state owned state controlled information infrastructure but I don't see it as likely to pass.

    5. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great statement. While nationalizing everything isn't always the solution, I think in these instances it can turn out to be a good thing. Let's do the same thing for Cable TV operators as well, and let Comcast and everyone else compete to provide the content over the networks. Such as here in CT, right now I have the option of Comcast...or Comcast where I am. If carriers in both arenas were forced to provide better quality of service, then "We the People" would be in business. Realistically, no one is saying Corporations can't make profits, in fact make a lot of profit to provide better content and service. All we're asking is just don't rape and pillage the customers in the process. But, wishful thinking I suppose.

      Oh, and btw after RanceJustice comment, we could really just /thread. : )

    6. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by the_humeister · · Score: 1

      For the longest time, people here were complaining about how "unlimited" wasn't really unlimited, how it was false advertising, etc. Now ISPs/wireless carriers get rid of the "unlimited" option, explicitly state what the caps are, and people are still complaining about not having "unlimited".

    7. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree there needs to be more service provided by government, like highways, but there's also a role for private corporations.

      To me, the key lies in your statement that this is about "to jack up feeds on a monopolized industry."

      Introducing competition by government is one solution that's good; another additional possibility is to break up the monopolies.

    8. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      How is it the American way or even remotely business-like for Comcast's lines to cross over my property rent-free? I have no business relationship with them. They refuse to respond to my letters where I wish to negotiate renting the space to them for $1 million per month. Clearly then, you support every private land owner in cutting down and disposing of wires that trespass their property.

    9. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by aujus3 · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. Cut the lines.

      --
      There are approximately 6,775,235,700 different kinds of people in the world.
    10. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by aujus3 · · Score: 1

      Caveat: Before you cut the lines, find a good business attorney who loves taking on the big boys, and when he or she gets you a reasonable amount of money from Comcast for their rent to use your property (obviously you're aware that any sane judge will find $1m/month is far from reasonable), pay the lawyer his or her fees. Then thank me.

      --
      There are approximately 6,775,235,700 different kinds of people in the world.
    11. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I realize your intentions are good; however, you must realize that although government can get massive things done, it does not do them cheaply or efficiently. Ever. I think a better solution would be to strike them all down again, with the 'baby bell' solution. Also, make them pay that shit back.

    12. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I absolutely agree with you -- especially about investing in We The People. We have relied on our government's ties to corporations for entirely too long! We have slowly, but surely relinquished our freedoms to either government or big business (through their lobbyists, et al).

      Remember election time is coming up and if you are NOT happy with your government, and you see things the way I do... vote their butt out. It is past time to remember that WE should have the power. If we don't like our government or what ehy are doing, then we should stand up to them and fire anyone in a political office and start over again. Undo all the crap that the politicians have done for the last two decades, and start running the government ourselves again!

    13. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the longest time, people here were complaining about how "unlimited" wasn't really unlimited, how it was false advertising, etc. Now ISPs/wireless carriers get rid of the "unlimited" option, explicitly state what the caps are, and people are still complaining about not having "unlimited".

      And the sky is blue. What's your point? I guess you're trying to imply that people are hypocritical, but you haven't even stated that the same people complained both times. Nor is it hypocritical to hate caps and hate lying about caps. So I don't really see the point of you are trying to make.

    14. Re:Technology drives forward, Greed pulls back by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      It has always confounded me why all people don't think like you. It seems fairly obvious to me that if a resource is part of the 'commons' (airwaves, oceans, roadways, etc..) that it should be managed and maintained by the people, which is the government. Of course, the government should be able to lease out use and management of public resources.

      And this, in theory, is how it is working right now. The FCC should be managing the airwaves for the greater benefit of the country. The problem is government being in bed with corporations. We've got to get the money out of politics before any meaningful change will occur.

      Once the lobbyists are gone, and politicians are hired on merit instead of money, I suspect we'd see some pretty large changes. For instance, what if public airwaves were only leased to non-profit companies required to meet public demand? The non-profits would get huge tax breaks which they could feed back into infrastructure upgrades. How much we pay would be in direct relation to how good the service was, because of no profit motive. Each dollar earned goes right back into making the service better.

  27. Unlimited data may be ending in the USA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But not in the UK.

    One operator here has recently introduced true unlimited data with no "fair usage" policy or caps.

    For £15 (~$24) per month on pay as you go, you get 300 minutes, 3000 texts and unlimited data.

    They also offer a pay monthly option with a rolling 1 month contract. For £25 (~$40), you get 2000 any network minutes, 5000 same network minutes, 5000 texts, and unlimited data. Plus with this tariff, you are allowed to tether.

    Or you can sign for a 2 year contract, and get a free (albeit low end) smartphone for the same price per month (or you can pay extra and get a better phone etc).

    Hopefully other companies will follow their lead.

  28. Supremacy of contract by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 1

    I signed a two year contract with verizon about a year ago while under the impression that I had an unlimited data plan. They really should not be allowed to change their end of the deal and expect me to stick around. In my mind, there are two ways to make this move legitimate - either grandfather in everyone that already has a contract our give of them a chance to terminate their account with no penalties. If they do anything other than this it is nothing more than as bait and switch. Of course, as they have the US legislature in their pocket they will get away with it...

    --
    To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    1. Re:Supremacy of contract by demonlapin · · Score: 2

      They will almost certainly just phase this out by refusing to allow you to keep it on a month-to-month basis rather than actively trying to change people's contracts mid-stream. You'll have your unlimited bandwidth until your two years is up, and then goodbye.

    2. Re:Supremacy of contract by churchtech · · Score: 1

      If they change the contract, you CAN get out, but you usually need to drop them within 30 days of them sending your the change to the T&C's

  29. Unlimited but not exactly by Oxide · · Score: 1

    The companies are like telling us here is an unlimited access plan that you pay for.. But we really don't like you to use it unlimited... You guys took "unlimited" way too serious

  30. In other News by DarkofPeace · · Score: 1

    My contract is up this summer... guess where Verizon can stick it.

    1. Re:In other News by aujus3 · · Score: 0

      Good for you. I have not and will not choose Verizon.

      --
      There are approximately 6,775,235,700 different kinds of people in the world.
  31. Well by Valcrus · · Score: 0

    I guess when my contract is up on my smart phone I will be getting another cheap normal phone. I got it for the use it anywhere side of it but if I'm going to be limited on it then I don't even want it.

  32. Good-bye Verizon... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Moved to to AT&T when Verizon cost too much and had lousy coverage in the area I'm in most. Left AT&T because of their lousy network and tiered-data and while my coverage in this area still sucks on Verizon, when I traveled I had coverage - but I'm in this area most. Since T-mobile is AT&T - that leaves Sprint so I guess I'll be going with them since Verizon is pricing itself out of the market.

    Love Europe where you can jump carriers based on price - that is what they need to do here - outlaw the contracts and phone locking. This country is so far behind the technology curve on phones it really is disgusting...

  33. Data Caps: The Future of Revenue Protection by Valen0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think that the data cap moves we are seeing in the data communications sector represent a market-wide trend to protect the existing profitable "value added" services such as voice calling and premium television services. Companies seem to be afraid of becoming just another "dumb pipe" as connection speeds get fast enough to handle third party "value added" services (e.g. Netflix and Google Voice). These companies believe that, by using data caps and unregulated third party data usage meters, they can ensure the protection of their highly profitable "value added" service sector. In many respects, this practice represents a trend of "predatory pricing" and "refusal to deal" in the communications industry.

    For example... In the cellular world, the 5 GB data cap effectively tolls previously "free" services such as Google Voice. On the broadband side of things, a 150 to 250 GB cap effectively limits the ability of Netflix and Hulu to compete with the first party in providing premium high definition video content.

    In many ways, these data cap moves are representative of an anti-competitive protectionist oligopoly. They also represent an end-run around the principals of network neutrality. By using unregulated meters that only bill for third party network usage, these companies have effectively "rigged the pump" to ensure that they can charge almost any rate for almost any service. Better regulation and oversight is needed at the Federal Government level to ensure fairness and competition in this otherwise anti-competitive industry.

    --
    -Valen
    1. Re:Data Caps: The Future of Revenue Protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as it were reasonable, I'd prefer an uncapped fee per 250mb (like $5). That way, I with my 15MB monthly data usage despite a smartphone, would never pay more than $5 a month instead of clinging to my $15/150MB plan that Verizon doesn't offer anymore. And if I needed it, it wouldn't be as bad as it is right now if I go over.

      Oh and treat all data the same so that you don't charge more for a tethering plan. That's more BS than a text messaging plan.

    2. Re:Data Caps: The Future of Revenue Protection by McKing · · Score: 1

      You realize that Google Voice uses actual phone minutes, right? There is a data connection as well, but your voice traffic goes over the regular voice stream. GV is a free service, but it doesn't replace the voice dialer on the phone, it replaces the carrier's voicemail and text messaging features.

      --
      If only "common" sense was actually that common...
    3. Re:Data Caps: The Future of Revenue Protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. These companies are trying to protect their huge margins at the rest of the economy's expense. Netflix is huge and it growing, creating competition and jobs, yet it is coming up against a wall built by ATT and Comcast's protectionist BS. If they really wanted to compete they could adjust to this shift by providing streaming solutions of their own, but instead they fight to force consumers to play by their rules.

    4. Re:Data Caps: The Future of Revenue Protection by Valen0 · · Score: 1

      Unintentional error. Google Voice is just one (bad) example of how phone companies can use data caps to monetize "free" usage of unlimited data plans for VoIP usage. As technology advances, VoIP over cellular data will become increasingly more common.

      --
      -Valen
    5. Re:Data Caps: The Future of Revenue Protection by Eric(b0mb)Dennis · · Score: 1

      This is not true if you use google's free calling feature from gmail via the google talk plugin.

      I haven't paid for any phone service for a year now, because if you have a google voice account, when you make a phone call (For free!) Via Gmail it calls with your GVoice number (It appears on the other party's caller ID) and people can call YOU with your google voice number, simply by adding google talk as a forwarding phone under GVoice.

      Now, if google would create an app that interfaced with the google talk plugin like gmail, and let you place phonecalls for free over THEIR network, I could see the phone companies getting pretty irritated.

      Hell, I already have a feeling comcast must be getting pretty miffed... I have completely free home phone service that is in almost all ways better than a regular land-line, save for the power requirements and no access to 911 (Cell phone with no service fixes this problem)

      --
      Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
    6. Re:Data Caps: The Future of Revenue Protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By using unregulated meters that only bill for third party network usage, these companies have effectively "rigged the pump" to ensure that they can charge almost any rate for almost any service.

      Except that Verizon was planning on removing the special handling (mediation) of the data used by their own apps. It would have gone into effect about the same time the Verizon iPhone hit, if not for the DoJ stepping in and 'investigating' the issue, and VZW subsequently dropping the plan. So Verizon, at least, isn't being protectionist by any stretch. They're perfectly happy to double-dip and screw their customers twice. This was meant to be a flat tax, effectively.

  34. I'd just like to remind everyone... by d3ac0n · · Score: 2

    Sprint still has reasonable and UNLIMITED V-T-D plans.

    No, they don't have the iPhone. They DO have some pretty sweet Android phones though. Let the iSheep get raped for bandwidth, come ride the unlimited airwaves on Sprint!

    (No, I'm not affiliated with Sprint at all. Just want to see my carrier of choice do well.)

    --
    Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    1. Re:I'd just like to remind everyone... by lobsterGun · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Be careful, the Sprint Unlimited Plan is only on their 4G service. If 4G service is not available, the phone silently downshifts to 3g where the 5gig caps still apply.

      Sprint has the smallest 4g network of all the major carriers.

    2. Re:I'd just like to remind everyone... by bws111 · · Score: 2

      And brilliant moves like that is why Sprint is #3 on the list of companies with the largest losses ($3.5B last year) and AT&T and Verizon are on the list with biggest profits.

    3. Re:I'd just like to remind everyone... by rufus+t+firefly · · Score: 1

      Be careful, the Sprint Unlimited Plan is only on their 4G service. If 4G service is not available, the phone silently downshifts to 3g where the 5gig caps still apply.

      This isn't true, in my experience. Both my wife and I have the "Unlimited Plan" on 3G phones, and haven't had to worry about any caps, even with very heavy tethering use.

      --
      "He may look like an idiot, and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot." - Duck Soup
    4. Re:I'd just like to remind everyone... by d3ac0n · · Score: 3, Informative

      Be careful, the Sprint Unlimited Plan is only on their 4G service. If 4G service is not available, the phone silently downshifts to 3g where the 5gig caps still apply.

      Sprint has the smallest 4g network of all the major carriers.

      This is not true AT ALL. I don't know where you got that info, but it is absolutely wrong, as even a cursory glance over their plans (easily available online at Sprint.com) would show.

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    5. Re:I'd just like to remind everyone... by vandon · · Score: 1

      Sprint has the smallest^H^H^H^H^H^H^H only 4g network of all the major carriers.

      Fixed that for you. AT&T and others just sent a press release. What they really did was just increase their speed caps slightly.

    6. Re:I'd just like to remind everyone... by mldi · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Their cards have data caps, but not their phones. That was how Verizon ran it too. Sprint = truly unlimited data on your phone.

      --
      If you aren't suspicious of your government's actions, you aren't doing your job as a responsible citizen.
  35. General Policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From experience with Verizon, the general policy seems to be "We're not happy until you're not happy".

  36. Re:Ever heard of wifi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, your world and your usage patterns are the only ones that matter. The world does indeed revolve around you! Anyone that could possibly complain is just plain wrong. Since you have no reason to complain no one else should either!

  37. Why Should I Want A Smartphone? by adamanthaea · · Score: 1

    I've never really understood why I should get a smartphone. Sure, there are times it'd be nice to have the Internet capabilities, but I hate using a smartphone as, get this, a phone. I've got a 6-year old simple phone that just does that, making phone calls for the small amount I use my cell phone for. The plan is still dirt cheap for virtually unlimited calling. I don't use SMS of any kind, so why do I want any of that bundled in? The only thing I want a smartphone for is mobile internet. But no carriers seem to want to just sell me a data plan, even if I come to them with an unlocked phone they can support. And now that even more caps are going into place, my desire to spend multiple hundreds of dollars on a phone and a plan drops even more.

    1. Re:Why Should I Want A Smartphone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i'm confused, is this a real question? it sounds like you don't want a smartphone. my suggestion would be not to get one.
       
      hold on, let me whip up a flowchart for you quick....

    2. Re:Why Should I Want A Smartphone? by digitallife · · Score: 1

      See this is a very normal but annoying aspect of many slash dotters outlooks: 'should'.
      Why 'should' I get a smartphone?
      The mobile carriers 'should' have more reasonable plans.
      Everyone else 'should' do exactly what I think is proper.

      If you don't want a smart phone, then don't get one. No one else cares.

  38. They also hinted at family data plans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which would be good for me. I currently pay $30/month per phone for unlimited data for my phone and my wife's phone. I use ~1.5GB/month, she uses ~100MB/month. I have no issue paying $30 for my usage,but it sucks that I have to pay the same amount for my wife that uses less than 1/10th the amount of data. I think (hope?) that a 2GB family plan would be less than $60/month.

  39. Might Be Good by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    I've shied away from getting data plans because I don't see how I could afford $60 a month ($30 for my phone and $30 for my wife's). If they get a plan like AT&T's 200MB for $15 a month, then my data plan costs would be halved and I might just consider it. (I don't think we would use smartphones for anything other than Twitter, Google searches, Facebook and the like.)

    Of course, then the article said this:

    Verizon's CFO mentioned that the carrier would likely one day offer family-based data plans, where you could have one giant plan to share among multiple people and multiple devices. But it was a vague sort of statement, with no definite time frame attached, so don't hold your breath just yet.

    This is something I've been waiting for for awhile now. I get a family plan with shared texting across all phones, but need to pay per-phone for data plans? Why not simply say "You've paid $X and now have 2GB for your account; use it between your phones as you wish"? Of course, the CFO's statement doesn't mean they'll actually roll anything like this out (or that it would be reasonably priced), but it does at least indicate that they are aware of this need.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  40. Be careful what you wish for. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you think customer service from your ISP or wireless carrier is bad now, just wait until the equivalent of the DMV is in charge. "Oh, you have a problem with your service? We should have someone availible within 6-8 weeks. Thank you for choosing Govopoly."

    If private monopolies are a bad thing, then why would monopolizing an industry under an unresponsive, inefficient, bureaucratic government be a good thing?

    Remember, data just doesn't magically stream to your device. There are hundreds of thousands of miles of fiber optic and copper cables, as well as routing/switching centers, transmission towers, amplifiers, nodes, routers, and backup power supply systems. It takes millions of man-hours to monitor and maintain this infrastructure. It isn't free.

  41. $4.00 gal gas by tbgreve · · Score: 0

    With the price of gas going up... I can see the need to raise the prices of data usage. I just never new they put my data on trucks and shipped it to my phone. You would have thought I would have seen that coming.

    --
    "Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."

    ~Joaquin Setanti

  42. Tax the rich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'force heavy data users to pay more for mobile data.'

    I bet the same people who came up with this idea are also against the rich bearing a higher tax burden.

  43. So long and thanks for all the fish... by Kyrubas · · Score: 1

    Well, it looks like I'll be giving Sprint some heavy consideration in the near future. Especially if Verizon changes my contract. Sprint seems to be the most Android friendly anyway, but from what I've seen their coverage is a bit lacking.

  44. All carriers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That sucks ass. Good thing i have virgin mobile. My fear is that most carriers(and ISPs) will get on this lame bandwagon.

  45. What is the average usage for real smartphones? by NeoMorphy · · Score: 1

    150MB for two people is a joke!

    I suspect that installing and upgrading apps would exceed that. Do they actually have smartphones or did they think that texting ability qualifies it as a smartphone?

    My usage is 1GB/month and I had no idea it was that high until I just checked it now. I'm just guessing, but most of my bandwidth is probably maps/navigator, web browsing, and installs/updates. I view an average of 5 youtube videos per month, if I went video crazy I guess I could really abuse the bandwidth, some people probably watch 2 hours of video while commuting to work and back on the train.

    And now Amazon and Google are offering cloud based music playing, holy crap, how much bandwidth is that going to burn? I'm going to take a wild guess that cloud based music is as good as dead! Listening to your music 30 minutes a day will probably put you over your cap. Netflix is going to be available on Droids soon and they're already the number one bandwidth user on the internet, now they can be number one on the airwaves!

    I'm not complaining, I actually like the idea of caps as long as they're reasonable. I suspect that there's a minority of people who abuse bandwidth as if it was an unlimited resource. If you live someplace with a great signal you can do everything with your cell phone. You can skip having a landline and use skype on your cell phone, skip cable internet and just tether, skip cable tv and just hook your Droid X hdmi cable to your flatscreen. I have the unlimited data plan(is it really unlimited?), but I prefer actual HD channels, faster internet connection(I only get 1.5Mb/s tethering), and decent phone capability that isn't owned by Microsoft.

    When people abuse unlimited, it goes away! If water was free there would probably be people running water 24/7 to power their paddle-wheel generators.

  46. Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean like they've been paying more already. What a joke. This amounts to nothing more but collusion in the wireless space.

  47. The real reason for bandwidth caps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sprint is the only carrier committed to unlimited bandwidth. They will be the carrier that emerges victorious from this band-cap war. Why is that? Because while everyone else is fighting over pennies, dollars, and bandwidth, Sprint will be fighting over users. They want users, and they'll whore themselves out 'till they get them.

    The real reason for bandwidth caps is we allowed the pipes owners to also own the services on the pipes. This used to be a big no no here in the U.S. The ISP's are also the pipes owners now, and guess what, they also all own cable television and or broadcasting companies. These companies are in direct competition with services such as Netflix, Huluu, and believe it or not Pandora. Music Choice channels and other premium content channels are huge revenue makers for these companies. Rather than compete, they will exclude. This is why we are getting bandwidth caps. This is why we are paying more now for internet than we ever have. These behemoth companies are protecting their own bottom line the only way they know how. Overcharge the customer. Sell them a service that when people actually use it, the Cableclown providers cry foul and tell us we're being unfair. Unfair for using the very services they schlepped us, at the rates they advertised. That, to them, is unfair. How dare we use the thing they sold us for the price they sold it to us, especially since they can make more now. Silly Sheeples.

    1. Re:The real reason for bandwidth caps... by CompMD · · Score: 1

      "Sprint will be fighting over users. They want users, and they'll whore themselves out 'till they get them."

      Maybe Sprint should have thought of that 3-4 years ago. But they were busy driving away all their users with abusive customer service, atrocious billing mistakes and anomalies that were always in Sprint's favor, castrated phones, and a corporate desire to bleed as much money from their customers as possible. Of course, you can't make money if your customers leave, and if you can't make money, you can't have employees, which led to their operational headquarters (which is MASSIVE) to end up looking like a ghost town. Sprint has nobody to blame for their problems but themselves; had they not been asshats to people, they wouldn't be fearing for their continued existence.

  48. Oh crap no... by Karellen · · Score: 1

    Does this mean people are going to have to argue with their math-illiterate sales and marketing idiots about if there's a difference between 0.002 dollars and 0.002 cents per kB, and which it is they charge, again?!?

    --
    Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
  49. iPhone Bait and Switch? by Golddess · · Score: 1

    Wasn't the truly unlimited data one of the advantages given by Verizon for getting an iPhone with them instead of with AT&T? Or was that never an "official" claim?

    --
    "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
  50. Paymore Stealmore Robmore Plans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For ever less service and products, of course. Until, one day, you find yourself paying monthly fees for the priviledge of being cybertattooed with the corporations's dancing, singing, rf-scanning, malware, rf-id Logo.

    What fun!

  51. Unlimited 3G on Sprint (Virgin Mobile) by dlenmn · · Score: 1

    You can get unlimited data and 3G on Sprint; it's just branded Virgin mobile (Virgin used to be a partner, but Sprint bought them out). There are other trade-offs to going with Virgin (like lower end phones), but I've been happy with the service.

  52. doublespeak by Morphine007 · · Score: 1
    When I read this:

    This move is designed to 'force heavy data users to pay more for mobile data.'

    All I see is:

    This move is designed to 'allow us to use bait-and-switch tactics to make a metric fuck-ton of money by screwing our customer base in ways we hope they won't notice overly much'

    Maybe I'm just jaded ...

  53. I said fuck it. by Nyder · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Turned off my Cell phone plan.

    Look, this whole Cell Phone internet shit is stupid. How fucking fast do we need stupid ass shit to get to our cell phones? You have the corporations, making it so crap is bigger, streaming is important, while the cell phone co's are putting limits on downloads and charging more for over small amounts. They don't care if they sell more data plans even though there's isn't enough resources.

    What is so fucking important today that needs this tech, that wasn't important 10 years ago? By the way people are, you'd think we didn't survive before the internet.

    --
    Be seeing you...
    1. Re:I said fuck it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a fucking idiot if you read Slashdot and yet still cannot think of any real world reasons why people would actually need internet access on their phones.

    2. Re:I said fuck it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sir, I tip my hat to you. You are clearly among the wisest.

    3. Re:I said fuck it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Turned off my Cell phone plan.

      Look, this whole Cell Phone internet shit is stupid. How fucking fast do we need stupid ass shit to get to our cell phones? You have the corporations, making it so crap is bigger, streaming is important, while the cell phone co's are putting limits on downloads and charging more for over small amounts. They don't care if they sell more data plans even though there's isn't enough resources.

      What is so fucking important today that needs this tech, that wasn't important 10 years ago? By the way people are, you'd think we didn't survive before the internet.

      Me too. Until there is a phone that allows me to connect to wifi when i'm in range, I refuse to buy a plan for data over a high-power radio tower. Transmitting over miles doesn't make sense to me when there is available infrastructure 10 yards away (but encrypted without incentive for ISPs to open it). I can't wait until ISPs start using broadband internet for VOIP in a structured way. I will gladly pay $100 for a super-basic phone that connects to the internet when it's in range. By connect, I mean roams between 3G and wifi, not just allows you to connect to Skype after you terminate your 3G call...

  54. Dear Verizon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm going to the Sprint store tonight. Say goodbye to me.

    Slashdot folks, Sprint is running a promotion right now to convert unhappy people like me with a $125 credit to leave and come to them. I'm going to reward the company that has the best business model.

  55. Matter of perspective I guess by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

    I very nearly got an Android phone last year, but didn't at the last minute because I learned that Verizon mandated the $30 a month unlimited Internet/Email plan with any smartphone. 1) I didn't intend to use the phone for Internet access all that much, and 2) I simply couldn't afford that. So instead, I opted for a multimedia phone (eNV touch) and pay just $10 a month for limited net/email access. As is, I hardly ever go on the 'net with my phone, or do email, I don't even use anywhere near the allowance I'm given - for one thing, even with an eNV touch, the screen is just too small for browsing -not because of eyesight (being myopic, I can read fine print), but general preference.. though it's good enough for GPS maps.
    So for me and probably quite a few like me, this is not a bad thing -I'd still like an Android phone or an iPhone, and now I'll be able to get a cheaper plan.

    I realize it's different strokes for different people; I can access the net anytime of day or night, from work or home, having a tower and large screen in front of my face all the time, but for many people that's simply not a viable option, so they rely on their phones.
    Verizon hasn't yet announced it's plans and pricing, but if they want to remain competitive, they won't be able to gouge customers.

    --

    Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  56. Doesn't Anyone Realize? by Uhhhh+oh+ya! · · Score: 1

    It sometimes seems 25% of the posts here on /. somehow mention the growing phone market and the amazing technology its bringing. Apple, Google, Microsoft, are all fighting to become the head of this new technology, now other big names like Intel are completely changing their focus to the phone market because thats where they see all the money going.

    In truth after all these companies battle it out they will now be under the control of their new masters AT&T and Verizon. Both companies have the power to effectively kill the smartphone market in the US. I understand that the networks cant handle as much as we would like to throw at them, I have seen people running multiple apps transferring relatively large amounts of data 24/7. But the phone companies are just using this as an excuse to better segregate the market and milk it for all its worth.

    My question is why is everybody letting them? (1) the big phone makers are putting their futures in the phone market without first striking any deals with the network providers that they stick to certain standards and not raise the prices and reduce the quality yearly. (2) Us users, after AT&T got rid of their unlimited data I waited for my contract to end and went to Verizon, now that Verizon is going to start tying the rope around my neck Sprint is looking much better. If the customer base moves the the phone makers will follow, but what am I saying, people would have to give up their iPhone for a while... (3) Government, why aren't they stepping in, Verizon and AT&T are already treating this like a Duopoly and there are still a number of good providers out there. But it wont stay like that for long as TMobile gets swallowed up, and I'm sure Verizon has its eyes on Sprint, this is why we have the government involved in corporate affairs, so they can stop all the power from accumulating in one place.

  57. Complain with your $$, not with your KEYBOARD. by iceT · · Score: 1

    This isn't that hard. They'll get the message when people start leaving vendors in DROVES. Reward the companies that still provide what you want, and punish the ones that don't by not giving them your $$$. They'll get the message when their people leave. Don't cling to your 'grandfather' clause. Go now. (and no, I don't work for Sprint).

    But whatever you do, don't WHINE about it until you no longer *have* choices.

    --
    -- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
  58. I pay less for my plan... by schlachter · · Score: 1

    I like (generous) data caps, they insulate >95% of us from the 5% who use massive amounts of data and drive costs up. I don't want a socialist phone company model where the masses subsidize the usage of the few.

    Now I pay $25/month for my 2GB of data on AT&T. Before they introduced data caps, the only option was $30/month for unlimited data. I prefer it this way. It's cheaper, and I never ever come close to hitting my limits.

    --
    My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
    1. Re:I pay less for my plan... by Eric(b0mb)Dennis · · Score: 1

      Then they shouldn't advertise their service as 'blazing fast' and 'unlimited'... specifically to appeal to those 'bad users' you are going on about..

      I'm one of the 5%. I regularly use over 400gb of bandwidth a month streaming, downloading DVDRs, etc etc etc.

      When I see an advertisement for 'blazing fast, unlimited mobile internet!' what do I think of? I think of doing everything I do at home, out of the home on my laptop. This includes streaming copious amounts of netflix, downloading DVDRs, etc. If they want to see a limited package, that's all fine. They just need to tell us that before we purchase it, and NOT in infinitely small text. They need to advertise their service as, "Blazing fast, unless you download more than 1 movie's worth of data between 4-6, then its modem-fast." That way I could make an informed decision in my buying choice. I could obviously see, hey, this plan ISN'T for me! And I would pick something more along the lines of what i needed (And likely, more expensive)

      --
      Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
  59. Unmitigated GREED, plain and simple... by Jerry · · Score: 1

    Which is one reason why I won't be buying a Verizon smartphone when my current Verizon cellphone contract expires.

    When the local cable and telcos repeatedly refused the request of local governments to install Fiber Optic cables in order to offer affordable high bandwidth internet connections to everyone, the local govenments, like mine, started laying their own Fiber Optic cable. I watched with anticipation as the cable was laid in my yard. It was never hooked up. The cable and telcos whined (and bribed) Congress to pass legislation to forbid local governments from "competing" with their cable and telcos. The legislation also gave the cable and telcos over $200 BILLION to fund and finish what the local governments had started -- conversion from Copper wire to Fiber Optic. Unfortunately, and probably deliberately, the legislation did not include penalty clauses for non-compliance. The GREEDY cable and telcos pocketed the money and returned to squeezing maximum profits out of their Copper wire.

    Flash forward 20 years. Internet usage has exploded, creating a perfect storm for greedy cable and telcos to maximize their profit by introducing a "Neutral Internet" PR storm which actually resulted in the ISPs being able to break their Copper wire traffic into "tiers", which aren't tiers at all, but merely ways of marking an Internet packet so as to allow software/hardware on their backbone to let certain packets to go unimpeded (if the customer paid a higher premium), while the others had their packets TTL count reduced or were dropped altogether, forcing resend, thus "slowing" down the cheap connections. The result: for Internet, TV and smartphone services combined consumers in the US now pay $130 AND MORE for CAPPED service. For comparison, France installed Fiber Optic throughout their country, and users can get an uncapped 40Gb Internet connection, 200 channels of TV and unlimited smartphone connections to any other phone in their country for $30/month.

    Only Americans would be so ill-informed and sheepish as to allow their current Internet situation to have developed. All because they now have a Cabal, not a Republic.

    --

    Running with Linux for over 20 years!

  60. You are a funny guy! by imric · · Score: 1

    The free market will provide. Haha! Would that be the free market that maximizes profit? You know, by delivering as little as possible for the greatest possible price? Competition would mitigate this, but to compete is to eliminate (or co-opt) competition, so this is it. Welcome to the FUTURE! Future.. future...

    --
    Paranoia is a Survival Trait!
  61. Verizon customers say "So long" to Verizon. by pro151 · · Score: 1

    I will. Been with Verizon since the first tower went up in my county in '86 I think. This was before they became Verizon. Got 2 Droids that will be on someone else's system soon. They can also say goodbye to being top dog in short order. It is bad when you start running fiercely loyal customers into the arms of your competitor.

    1. Re:Verizon customers say "So long" to Verizon. by keith_nt4 · · Score: 1

      What competitors?

      --
      "UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
  62. Grand fathered? by keith_nt4 · · Score: 1
    I had a sneaking suspicion this would happen which is why I bought my Android on Verizon last summer (July 2010). I was hoping when it inevitably happened I could keep my unlimited data plan. Be "grand fathered in" in other words maximizing my flexibility (switch limited data or keep my "unlimited" plan). The article didn't really mention this one way or another. I don't really use my than 2 gigs anyway but it's nice to have the option.

    So does anybody know if current unlimited data plans are grandfathered? Or has this not been announced yet?

    --
    "UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
  63. Coporate Greed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This just came to my mind about phone companies trying going towards these per usage plans.Will this take away revenue from the android market and apple's app store? Honestly this making android/apple app development look real slim because some customers will not pay Verizon/AT&Ts fees to download an app.