Microsoft Promo: a PC and Xbox In Every Dorm Room

theodp writes "Can Microsoft woo students into trying Windows 7 PCs? Well, starting on May 22nd, Microsoft will try to do so by giving away free Xbox 360 4GB consoles to high-school or college students who purchase new Windows 7 PCs priced at $699 and up. A Guess Who's Coming to College? teaser video for the promotion features a Halo Spartan's HS graduation ceremony."

Comments

Desperation

[tripleevenfall]

Smells like desperation - MSFT has really been losing the teens/twenties market to Apple in the last 5 years.

Re:Desperation

[bleble]

Yes, because every marketing campaign is done out of "desperation".

No teen/twenties or anyone else will pick OSX instead of Windows if he/she plays games. Which is exactly the target audience with bundling PC and Xbox360.

Re:Desperation

[index0]

What does it smell like when ipods are given away with every apple computer purchased by a student? Apple usually has this same promo every summer.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

But then, Apple only has 10% market share on the desktop. It would make sense for them to up this, by giving promotions.

The grandparent poster was right. They wouldn't need to do this, unless they really felt threatened by Apple.

Re:Desperation

[bluemonq]

Apple gives away iPod Touches for people buying MacBooks before the start of the school year. It's a valid tactic.

Re:Desperation

[brendank310]

Apple has been giving out iPod's with laptop purchases for years now. If anything this is MS just trying to counter balance that. Seems like a win-win for consumers. Maybe Apple will step up their offering and give iPad's with laptop purchases now.

Re:Desperation

[wisty]

And it's last years iPod, and last year's Mac. And face it, an iPod is NOT an xBox 360. The component cost is waaaaay lower. And Apple has markup to spare.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

What does it smell like when ipods are given away with every apple computer purchased by a student?

Teen Spirit?

Re:Desperation

[spire3661]

No this is exactly the direction i expected them to go. Like it or not, the Xbox is poised to be THE cheap, full featured modern cable box in the streaming era. You can buy a brand new Xbox for $200 and MS still makes a profit on it, and big opportunities to sell you more intangible stuff. Its a great loss leader since people see 'oooo hardware' .Give away the tangible, sell the intangible, very very smart.

Re:Desperation

[excelsior_gr]

Well, you have to admit that an Xbox is pretty big for a marketing freebie. We are not talking about free pens and calendars here.

The chain of reasoning here could be: College freshmen buy new computers, so there is a market there > They need to choose between MS, Apple, Linux > We need to make them go with Windows, so let's throw in an Xbox there > Help spread Win7 *and* make revenue from Xbox game sales.

I don't think that this marketing campaign is targeted to the teens that play games. It is targeted to the teens that are buying a computer for college, i.e. office, work (which will also help with MS-Office sales). If it was targeted to the gaming crowd it would be the other way around: e.g. a free netbook for every Xbox sale.

Re:Desperation

[ColdWetDog]

Smells like desperation - MSFT has really been losing the market of people in their late teens/twenties to Apple lately. This does not bode well for their future prospects because losing a customer to Apple carries the potential of being a lifelong loss.

Without some of the revenue streams they used to have, they really have to protect their market share in Windows consumer licenses.

No, it doesn't smell like desperation, it smells like Marketing - which really smells like some anchovies left inside a damp athletic shoe for six months. Conceptually, it's simple - if the costs of the marketing campaign are less than the perceived value then it's a 'good idea'. Bonus points for getting people riled up about and bouncing it around the echo chamber (as we are doing here).

So, some marketing droid (probably sitting in a Starbucks banging away at his / her / it's MacBook Air) gets a few brain cells to fire, manages to pull off writing 6 moderately coherent paragraphs and downloads a couple of (copyrighted) images that may or may not have much to do with the main concept, gives everything a few tasteful drop shadows and gradients, stuffs everything into a Keynote file, emails it to a couple more droids who show it to some uberdroid who shows it to it's boss who runs a few specious calculations on a spreadsheet, then manipulates the numbers so they look better, then stops briefly to end this annoyingly run on sentence.

Then it gets massaged, changed and photoshopped until the end result has very little to do with the original idea.

Then it gets sold to some low level exec at Microsoft, a similar process ensues and some months later a marketing campaign dribbles out to the delight of bored Slashotters everywhere.

Desperation isn't quite the applicable concept here.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple gives away iPod Touches for people buying MacBooks before the start of the school year. It's a valid tactic.

Logic/attribution fail.

The motive doesn't make the tactic any more or less valid.

It's a valid tactic whether or not they are doing it out of desperation. And they are, incidentally, doing it out of desperation.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

No teen/twenties or anyone else will pick OSX instead of Windows if he/she plays games.

Because iPhones don't play games, and Portal 2, The Sim 3, The Rift, StarCraft 2, WoW, and other top-selling games aren't available on Mac.

Oh wait - they do, and they are. Welcome to 2011.

Re:Desperation

[phantomfive]

That's what I thought too, I mean, is it really much different than the free iPods Apple was giving out with computer purchases? But then, if you look closely at the numbers, it really is different.

Apple typically has a 30% markup on their products, which means they could give away an iPod and they might still end up with a bit of profit.

Microsoft on the other hand, doesn't make the hardware, and although the profit margins are obscene on Windows, they are still only making $50-$100 for each computer sale. That's not enough to cover the hardware costs on an Xbox, so they are losing $100-$150 for each sale here. (note: all numbers are estimates).

Obviously they think it is worth it, but why? Is it because they are worried about competition from Apple? I don't know, but it seems just as likely that Ballmer is a maniacal spendthrift, who thinks any price is worth paying to crush the competition.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a valid tactic whether or not they are doing it out of desperation. And they are, incidentally, doing it out of desperation.

Desperation you say? Microsoft are acting out of desperation?

When the gaming network of their main competitor has been repeatedly ass raped by hackers over the past few weeks leaving customers unable to play games online for what amounts to an eternity on the internet?

Yeah. Must be desperation.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

I was thinking "smug", but your post was much better.

Re:Desperation

[oakgrove]

Apple will still make money there out of the gate because of the markup on Macs. The converse with Ms isn't true. I agree this smells funny.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a valid tactic whether or not they are doing it out of desperation. And they are, incidentally, doing it out of desperation.

Desperation you say? Microsoft are acting out of desperation?

When the gaming network of their main competitor has been repeatedly ass raped by hackers over the past few weeks leaving customers unable to play games online for what amounts to an eternity on the internet?

Yeah. Must be desperation.

The xbox is there to entice people to buy windows PCs. That's why it's free and the PC is not. This is really so hard to understand?

This isn't about taking on Sony. It's about taking on Apple. To the exact dollar amount it's a match of a similar Apple promotion (involving iPods).

You completely miss the point and somehow that makes the other guy wrong. Yeah, sure. I love how people who are stupid like you are usually smarmy like you, too. That really makes the world a better place.

Re:Desperation

[oakgrove]

xbox is poised to be blah blah blah

Wait, what? What happened to the Wii, playstation, tablets, google tv's, apple tv's, slingboxes, boxee boxes, etc.? Did they all get outlawed and summarily destroyed? You are counting chickens before the evolution of birds here.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

The 4GB Xbox has an MSRP of $199. Apple gives away free iPod Touch with Mac purchase, and those go for $229 MSRP.

Re:Desperation

[Just Brew It!]

Not desperation IMO... it is a plan that has worked for them in the past. Look at the pricing of the MS Office suite -- the Student/Educational version has historically been much cheaper than the normal one. Guess what... MS Office dominates the market, because everyone uses it in school. They're just extending their existing strategy.

Re:Desperation

[h4rr4r]

Cheap?
You have to pay a monthly fee to use the damn thing. Even when PSN was down netflix worked fine on my ps3 and without me paying sony.

Re:Desperation

[hjf]

waaah waaah i hate microsoft waaah waaah i dont want the xbox to become the shit, i want it to be anything non-microsoft.

oh that's not what you said? sorry, it just sounded like that.

Re:Desperation

[jcr]

Yes, because every marketing campaign is done out of "desperation".

He didn't say anything about any other marketing campaign.

-jcr

Re:Desperation

[calmofthestorm]

Eh linux runs fine on windows 7 computers:-)

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because every marketing campaign is done out of "desperation".

Pretty much. If your product is good enough, word will spread without a "marketing campaign"

Re:Desperation

[larry bagina]

Apple manufactures both the Mac and the iPod touch, with big enough profit margins on each to cover the freebie and then some. Microsoft will make, what, $50 from that OEM copy of windows 7.

Re:Desperation

[Gaygirlie]

Eh linux runs fine on windows 7 computers:-)

Well, thank you Captain Obvious, as if he was claiming it doesn't....

Re:Desperation

[Pinky's Brain]

Apple is vertically integrated and have huge margins ... they still make profit while throwing in the iPod Touch, just less.

Microsoft loses money on this.

Re:Desperation

[oakgrove]

I think Microsoft has a legitimate chance in this space but there are hundreds of millions of devices from many manufacturers that also have a very good chance. It is very likely that the streaming to the television duties will remain a competitive market with a mix of devices in people's homes. Also, an xbox is a significant investment for people living in in developing countries. Those people are much more likely to invest in something cheaper. An arm based set top box can be put together and sold for much cheaper than the cheapest high end game machine no matter the economies of scale. I just think pinning the medal on Microsoft is a bit premature.

Re:Desperation

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

The difference, arguably, is that the unit cost of a piece of software closely approaches zero. The shiny disks and the box(if it isn't a campus setup, where they just email you the key and a download link) aren't quite free; but the overwhelming majority of any piece of software's price is the "what we can get for it" slice, not the "must recover marginal cost of production" slice.

Hardware, by contrast, has a substantial marginal cost of production. Lower than MSRP, obviously; but way higher than software.

Re:Desperation

[Requiem18th]

If I recall correctly Nintendo sells Wii's at a loss. "Free" XBOXes are sure to boots sales of XBOX games, XLive subscriptions and DLC sells.

And that's not even actually free, it's easy to hide the cost in the price of the PC + Windows 7, specially considering Windows costs nothing for MS to install and people are just going to end up buying another copy when their PC inevitably gets infected/broken and need a replacement.

Re:Desperation

[Requiem18th]

Should we call those free iPods a proof of desperation from Apple?

Re:Desperation

[dingen]

Nintendo has never sold a single Wii at a loss, not even right after it was released. Actually, the Wii was for quite some time the only current-gen console sold with a profit.

Re:Desperation

[gilbert644]

So long as the Xbox is being used it will keep bringing in money. Xbox live, online stores and 10$ on every game sold that's a lot more then apple can hope to get with itunes sales.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

from the line-up came the refrain 'here we are now, entertain us!'

Re:Desperation

[phantomfive]

The difference is, with every iTunes sale, Apple is just adding to the pile of profit. Microsoft, on the other hand, is trying to dig themselves out of a loss. Will they do it? I don't know the numbers well enough to answer that one......probably only Microsoft does. But historically, they haven't done particularly well with xBox sales.

Re:Desperation

[Just Brew It!]

What is the lifetime value to MS of a person who is biased (even if only subtly) towards their products? Even if they've had to "pony up" some hardware, it is probably still a net win. A few of those students will even go on to become people who have influence over large purchasing decisions in the corporate world -- that's *huge*. If college graduates are more likely to land in those sort of positions, then they've just gained a lot of leverage over the long term.

Note: I'm not *endorsing* the practice, I'm just pointing out that it isn't necessarily a desperation move. It may in fact be quite smart, from a long-term perspective.

Re:Desperation

[UnknowingFool]

Well, maybe in the first few weeks after the marketing and launch costs, but in general the Wii was not sold at a loss. The Xbox on the other hand was selling at a loss for like 7 years before MS finally turned a profit on it.

Re:Desperation

[zanian]

I definitely started reading your post and was about to flame then I saw:

 

Oh wait - they do, and they are. Welcome to 2011.

Re:Desperation

[UnknowingFool]

That's a pretty big gamble as in a college student's everyday life they will use iTunes more than Xbox Live. We are talking about media, books, movies, and apps that a college student takes with them everywhere. They have to leave the Xbox in their rooms. Remember we are talking about average college students not hardcore gaming college students.

Re:Desperation

[UnknowingFool]

Apple can afford to take the loss of a $200 iPod Touch as they sell a $1000+ computer. MS takes the loss of a $200 Xbox for the $50 OEM Windows license. Financially there's a huge difference.

Re:Desperation

[Adambomb]

It reminds me of the interesting reaction i'm seeing in people i know from a similar ad campaign here in Canada at the moment. Recently Rogers Telecommunications started a campaign targeting young couples with their "Buy two smart phones on our couples/family plans and get a free PS3" campaign. Although i know one who went with it, but for the most part it is making people realize the value that these companies receive from their Long Term Contracts. This is something that most companies would prefer to downplay, and make retention offers or sign up bonuses come across as some grand concession on their part.

People who once never really questioned contracts are going "well damn, if its worth 300$ to them up front is this really something that benefits me more than the cost?"

Kinda nice to see the artificial mindset these companies have set in peoples minds about how "phones are cheap" with the prominent display of contract only prices eroded a bit by their own actions.

What I don't get is, is the benefit to Microsoft possibly worth it in this case? It's hard to quantify the 'hook em young' effect.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because every marketing campaign is done out of "desperation".

He didn't say anything about any other marketing campaign.

-jcr

No, but he could have mentioned that Apple giving away free iPods, that are more expensive, to sell Macs is even greater "desparation"?

Re:Desperation

[UnknowingFool]

Well since Apple is not likely losing money on their promo, I would say no.

From the financial viewpoint, the cheapest Mac is $699. (I don't if the Mac mini is eligible). The cheapest iPod Touch is $229 (which is the one that will be given away). From a margin standpoint, at a healthy 30% margin on hardware, Apple makes $210 on the Mac. They lose $160 on the iPod Touch. They still make $50 on the whole promo.

The Xbox is $199. Again assuming 30% margin, they lose $140 if they give it away. We don't know what margin is like on software. However, MS has to make $140 on OEM Windows license just to break even here. Considering the computer was $699, it's not likely that they charge this much. My estimate is $50-70 a license. MS loses money on each promo.

Re:Desperation

[Osgeld]

haha yea I bet that some 18 year old marketing major is really considering linux

Re:Desperation

[Osgeld]

wow is right, you managed to name 5 mostly recent games on mac, that right there is a feat and I am impressed

Re:Desperation

[Osgeld]

playstations and wii's are mostly doorstops, everything else listed hasnt sold enough combined to match the 360 like it or not

Re:Desperation

[Sinthet]

Yes, but the 4GB Xbox isn't really all that overpriced. The Ipod Touch on the other hand, is disgustingly so.

Re:Desperation

[artor3]

Right.... cause gamers really consider angry birds to be on level with Elder Scrolls, Total War and Modern Warfare. And hey look, those are all hugely popular series with no support for Mac! Guess that kind of eviscerates your point.

Re:Desperation

[hjf]

Sorry, not gonna happen. People in developing countries would prefer the machine that lets them play games *AND* watch movies, instead of separate machines for everything. That's why people in "developing countries" like mine just buy PCs. You can do both, AND you can hook them to a big screen too. That's how things work here - there is still a "family" computer. The "personal" computer concept is still working its way through.

And for this, I blame computer manufacturers too. When I wanted to buy a laptop 2 years ago, HP Argentina asked USD 2000 for the model I wanted. I got it on the local eBay, imported from USA, for $1200. The US price was $799 then. Dell started selling computers a couple of years ago. You can go to Dell Argentina and laugh for a while. First, the price, and second, the fact that ALL machines are preconfigured. You can't even ask for a larger monitor if you're ordering a desktop. Can't order more RAM, HDD, anything. The computers are sold AS IS.

Beige-box builders sell the same machine for half the price. You also get a pirated version of Windows 7 that WORKS instead of the bullshit Microsoft called "Windows 7 Starter", which won't let you run more than 3 apps at the same time. Or refuses to run in machines with over 1GB RAM.

The problem with the alternative you suggest is that you, naively of course, think that companies actually "give a fuck" about developing economies. They don't, period. Should they? Well, in my book, if the customer's got the money, then I don't care where he is from.

The XBOX and Wii are not sold officially in my country. The PS3 is, but the PSN service is not enabled. All 3 consoles go for $800+, which makes it hard to justify for an average household. Sony, MS and Nintendo don't bother lowering the prices - they make enough money in JapEurUSA to bother selling here.

Same with music and movie streaming services. Services like Spotify and Pandora aren't available, under the excuse of "licensing issues". It's an excuse, of course. They don't really work to solve it (because they don't care about the market), but also, it's not 100% true. Grooveshark works in my country just fine.

You know what company will "win" in the long run? The one that actually bothers making a service that works for most people in the world. The company that proves me that I can stream a movie cheaper, and faster, and with more quality than what I get when pirating stuff.

They need to start differentiating prices. They should price their stuff using their brains, not their greed. Right now it's literally cheaper for me to fly to Miami and get a Macbook Pro there, have dinner, sleep one night and fly back home the next day, than it is to buy it here. Even considering the money I lose for missing 2 days to work. If that's not fucked up, I don't know what is. The same applies to folks in the UK trying to use Adobe Creative Suite. It's cheaper to fly from london to NY and get it there than buying it in the UK.

Price policies, right now, are severely fucked up. Software and music are the worst offenders. It's really not about taxes. Taxes here are high but they don't justify the 4x price for an XBOX, or the 2x price for a music CD. Movies are a different story. It's cheap for me to go to the movies. On thursday I went to the premiere of Pirates of the Caribbean 4 (yes, that's 1 day before the US release), in 3D, with dolby sound and all, for the equivalente of US$ 6. It's my understanding that movie tickets in NY will set you back $20 or more. In comparison, the burger, fries, and cola I bought before the movie were more expensive. Now, if I want to get the movie's BD when it's released? It will cost me over $25.

So, as you can see, I *think* my rationale is right. They should offer a decent product, for a price that people *can* afford to pay (not market it as a high-end, elite thing, like the PS3 is here), and you will get millions of people to buy it. Keep up the current bullshit, and we will have the neverending discussion of why people pirate stuff.

Re:Desperation

[artor3]

Students are already given Windows and Office with zero markup, because when they enter the workforce, you want them to be used to using those tools.

On the gaming side, MS makes way more money off game sales and XBL subscriptions then they do by selling actual Xboxes.

Re:Desperation

[obarthelemy]

Smells like a smart investment:
1- they get the Average Sale Price of PCs a bit up, which makes them less crappy compared to Macs. Lots of people will look at their $400 PC or $300 netbook, compare it to a $1000 Mac, and conclude, Wow, Mac is so much better. The cheapest MacBook seems to 999euros for 13.3", the cheapest 13.3" Dell is 450. both 2GB, 250GB, dualcores, Apple has a better CPU and is a lot sexier. I wouldn't hazard a guess about build quality nor service and support. So for $699, students should be able to get a significantly better (if not cuter) PC than a *more* expensive Mac. MS is closing the luxury gap

2- They get people familiar with their product. Today's students are tomorrow's executives, and people will be partial to what they know. Even if it's not that good... and, honestly, Windows Seven *is* good.

3- They get people sucked into their Live thing.

I don't know what the real cost of the campaign will be, once you balance giving out a $200 (probably costs less to build, by now), getting $40 for a windows license, $10 per game, 10 games per console (?) (got that from another post, I have no clue if this is accurate), and Live subscriptions/purchases. I'm guessing it's not a bad return, with "converted" users and referrers as a bonus ?

Plus it does not hurt their presence at the very bottom end. I got a HP Mini 110 for 150euros. That's about the price for an Apple keyboard plus mouse without any computer to use them with.

Re:Desperation

[man_of_mr_e]

But, Microsoft makes money on continued XBOX Live subscriptions and licensing fees on games.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? I'm watching Netflix while signed in to my XBox 360 Silver account. Silver is free you say? NOOOOOOOO!

Re:Desperation

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I'm also not saying that it is necessarily a bad, or desperate, move, just that (unlike discounting software, where what you are "losing" is almost certainly imaginary-they-most-likely-would-have-pirated-it-anyway money) heavy hardware discounts cost real money.

Presumably, they think that the money it costs will be worth it, and they may well be right; but it is a different flavor of tactic.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

Mac: What are you doing?
PC: Playing games.
Mac: Which ones?
PC: All of them!
Mac :(

Re:Desperation

[rhook]

How many people actually BUY music on iTunes?

Re:Desperation

[UnknowingFool]

From a financial standpoint, MS starts in the hole with this promo. For MS to break even, this is contingent on students buying games. This is not guaranteed as some students are not gamers who are going to buy additional games. Sure they get a free Xbox with a computer; they were going to get a computer anyways. But that does not necessarily mean they become Xbox gamers. They might play it. Or they may just let it collect dust.

Re:Desperation

[phantomfive]

Students are already given Windows and Office with zero markup

lol oh yeah? You really think Microsoft doesn't make a profit when they sell Office for $99?

Re:Desperation

[DannyO152]

Isn't a student who buys a Mac and gets Office for Mac or a retail license of Windows and Office/Windows to run virtually way, way more profitable than the one who for $15-20 (the OEM's license cost) gets an XBox?

Are the Microsoft shareholders even paying attention any more?

Re:Desperation

[UnknowingFool]

Well MS is still turning a large profit overall so losing more money on the Xbox probably isn't a high priority. The moment the situation changes, shareholders will be asking about promos like these where they gave products for free that had just started to turn profitable.

Re:Desperation

[makomk]

Microsoft have been selling Office to many students for a lot less than $99. Cost of media and shipping almost in some cases.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. You're an idiot.

Re:Desperation

[StuartHankins]

28% of all US music sales and growing. http://gigaom.com/apple/itunes-accounts-for-28-of-u-s-music-sales/

Re:Desperation

[jo_ham]

I do. Quite a lot actually. I used to download it from p2p networks - started back in the early days of p2p sharing at college over 10 years ago now, when no one really knew much about it, so you could download mp3s at lightning speed on the university networks in the engineering computer labs on software like WinMX and so on. No one was monitoring that traffic, and everyone was doing it.

When the iTunes music store came out I stopped downloading music, and I mean *completely stopped*, from p2p networks. Part of it was that the heyday was over - now there were floods of crappy encodes, and poisoned tracks and so on, so it was a bit of a hassle. The other part was that I was genuinely honest when I said "make it easy, cheap and convenient and I will buy downloadable music" - and the iTunes music store did that. When the whole store went DRM free (on the music side, at least), I even purchased copies of many of the albums I had downloaded all those years ago. I continue to buy music on the iTunes store since I feel that it is worth the price that it's sold for. I have also occasionally used other online download stores for some material that is not available on iTunes, like many of the live Counting Crows performances, for example.

Apple got it right when they said "make it available cheaply and conveniently and people will buy it" when everyone (as in, the music industry) was telling them "but why would people buy it if they can get it for free on p2p networks". It's not a new idea by any stretch of the imagination, but they did get the record industry to play ball, and the rest is history.

The store isn't a huge profit generator for Apple (it's profitable, but it's barely a scratch compared to the profitability of the iPods and iPhones that the store really exists for), but it works.

I know for certain I'm not the only person who decided it was well worth it - they are selling songs by the barrel.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

They might play it. Or they may just let it collect dust.

What? Is eBay bankrupt?

Re:Desperation

[Billly Gates]

"No teen/twenties or anyone else will pick OSX instead of Windows if he/she plays games. Which is exactly the target audience with bundling PC and Xbox360." I disagree

With all these win-video chipsets, non video cards(aka integratred graphics), I would say the PC gaming experience sucks now. Even World of Warcraft with its pre 2003 graphics engine needs to have all of its settings on min to run at 25 fps on a modern laptop. :-0! That is not execusable.

As a result generation Y prefers consoles now thanks to these greedy OEM's trying to save $50 on each unit. I own an Asus 6 way CPU system with a Radeon 5750 with 8 gigs of ram, but the amount of pcs games is low for it vs a console. I play World of Warcraft occasionally and use the rest of the power to run Linux via a VM inside Windows to develop internet apps for kicks.

I prefer the PC personally as I like the keyboard and mouse and raw power of a dedicated GPU mixed with the internet, but all the game makers want to focus on is the console. Can you blame them? 75% of the GPU market 2 years ago was the horrible intel G950 and to make a game that sucks on these makes angry parents and users.

These kids are not used to playing games outside of World of Warcraft on a mac/pc. Not to mention the majority of users on college are notebook users with crappy dedicated integrated graphics. Those are the ones you can take notes on in class. The higher end Macbook Pro has dedicated graphics for World of Warcraft and Half Life anyway.

For $699 you can't get a Windows notebook to play decent games anyway besides wow with blury and low distance settings all choppy.

Re:Desperation

[rhook]

What a pointless rant, you can buy laptops with good video cards in them. However, you have to be an idiot to think you're going to buy a laptop that doubles as a gaming rig.

Re:Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

If you dont or cant run games on your win netbook then why choose a pc? The point is null then in needing Windows

Desperation

[tripleevenfall]

Smells like desperation - MSFT has really been losing the market of people in their late teens/twenties to Apple lately. This does not bode well for their future prospects because losing a customer to Apple carries the potential of being a lifelong loss.

Without some of the revenue streams they used to have, they really have to protect their market share in Windows consumer licenses.

if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Dan667]

I guess you could sell the xbox and use the money to buy games for the PC.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Opportunist]

Or sell the XBox and that 600 bucks PC to buy a real one.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Anonymous Coward]

Better yet!
Buy 700$ PC, get free XBox360, sell both, buy better PC, get free XBox360, repeat until PC is good enough, sell XBox, buy games.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[VortexCortex]

I guess you could sell the xbox and use the money to buy games for the PC.

My thoughts exactly... Well, except that I would sell the Xbox for for a RAM upgrade or possibly a few peripherals. Additionally I'd be formatting the drive, installing a VM, then installing Linux and re-installing Win7 (remember to make recovery disks first). IMHO, no one should run Windows outside of a VM. P.S. You can use a Hackintosh VM Image too, if you must, and dual or triple boot instead of a VM if you're brave enough to let MS Windows run directly on the metal -- Yikes!

If you're going to buy a decent laptop, might as well take some free stuff, convert it into a more kick ass computer upgrade, and install a freer OS that won't report your bit-torrent usage to the feds...

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[tepples]

Additionally I'd be formatting the drive, installing a VM, then installing Linux

If your distribution detects all the hardware, great. But a lot of people who buy a PC and then change out the operating system end up finding out that a piece of hardware connected to the PC is unsupported in the other operating system. When you buy a ready-made winbox, you at least know that it comes with drivers for the included hardware, no HCL checking needed.

IMHO, no one should run Windows outside of a VM.

That'll become practical as soon as desktop and laptop computers running something other than Windows or Mac OS X are nationally advertised to the general public. Or has this time come, and I just haven't seen it in my corner of the world?

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[improfane]

You run games on a VM? How fast is that exactly?

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[mehrotra.akash]

If your distribution detects all the hardware, great. But a lot of people who buy a PC and then change out the operating system end up finding out that a piece of hardware connected to the PC is unsupported in the other operating system. When you buy a ready-made winbox, you at least know that it comes with drivers for the included hardware, no HCL checking needed.

I have seen many PC's and laptops (HP comes to mind, maybe others as well), where its virtually impossible to install Windows from a stock image. You NEED to use the version they give with the pre loaded drivers.
And, you wont get drivers for any version of windows other than the one they come with at all.

Ubunty/Linux Mint however install without any issues

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Anonymous Coward]

Which just reiterates your parents point.

And it is Ubuntu.

Dumbass.

./sour_mood off

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[mangu]

Better yet!

Buy 700$ PC, get free XBox360, sell both, buy better PC, get free XBox360, repeat until PC is good enough, sell XBox, buy games.

You mean, it's like that email telling you that for every person you forward it Bill Gates will give ten cents to some charity? Only this time the charity is me? Cool!

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[mehrotra.akash]

Which just reiterates your parents point

Unless it came with 1GB RAM and Vista, so it has a pertty pathetic performance OOTB as well

And it is Ubuntu.

and, that is known as a typo

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Missing.Matter]

I have seen many PC's and laptops (HP comes to mind, maybe others as well), where its virtually impossible to install Windows from a stock image. You NEED to use the version they give with the pre loaded drivers.

Hardly. When was the last time you used Windows? With Windows Vista/7 As long as your wifi/ethernet card installs, Windows Update takes care of most of the drivers. Anything else can be found on the mfgr website.

This is hardly the case for Linux. For example, My Envy 14 has 2 graphics cards, one low power integrated Intel and one high power discrete ATI. Windows handles this just fine, but Ubuntu can't run off the dedicated card. This means I can't get any Video out, as that goes through the ATI card. Further, power management sucks and I only get about 1.5 hours of battery life whereas I can get 4+ in Windows. Ubuntu offers to install drivers for the ATI card and when I do GDM won't boot anymore. This is in 10.04-10.10. I've had a hell of a time getting 11.04 to install because of these graphics issues.

I also recently installed Ubuntu 10.10 on a 2006 Dell Latitude. It installed fine and when it booted, asked me to install some updates. After they installed, it wouldn't boot past the Ubuntu splash screen. How the hell do you even troubleshoot this? What do you google? After asking my friends who are more well versed in Linux than I to have a look at it, their only advice was to reinstall 10.04 which so far is working okay but I can't get wireless to work, which installed fine in 10.10.

So yeah, you have to do some research on the system you buy if you plan to install Linux, or else you'll end up with a Laptop that doesn't use the hardware you paid for.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[oakgrove]

He is saying what he will do. Why are you criticizing him as if he were positing it as a general solution? I'm getting a pool installed. Is that wrong because millions of apartment dwellers can't? I don't get you people that seem to think everybody should be the same.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[need4mospd]

You'd lose so much money on the resale value that you might not be able to afford the $700 PC when you're done. You might make $550 on the PC and $150 on the cheap base version xbox.

Also, I highly doubt the lawyers didn't include "one offer per person" in the fine print.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Americium]

So then you can't play games, sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it. And it's the way bit-torrent works that gets you in trouble, not your OS.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Billly Gates]

An xbox makes a nice dvr plus people swear by consoles. Pcs have crappy integrated graphics for under 1000

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Billly Gates]

I like Windows 7 as a desktop over gnomeShell and Unity anyday. Windows 7 is butt ugly in virtualbox under linux. For notebooksWindows has better power managment

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[hedwards]

Hardly. When was the last time you used Windows? With Windows Vista/7 As long as your wifi/ethernet card installs, Windows Update takes care of most of the drivers. Anything else can be found on the mfgr website.

That's been the case for quite a while. Right now it's not much of a problem, but I'm guessing that as Win 7 gets older that it's going to be more and more common for you to need a second driver disk to get the drivers. XP doesn't have much trouble finding drivers at present, provided you've got the ones for your network card.

But, if you've got drivers for the network card there's absolutely no reason why you can't download the correct drivers yourself.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Dahamma]

Good luck playing the latest games if you just bought a $700 PC...

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[DarkOx]

The real value of consoles is they are hassle free. You never have issues with drivers, or have to wonder if your rig will perform well enough to make the experience worth while, you can just take the game home and play.

If you are willing to tinker and have money to burn then yes the PC experience can be amazing next to a console for at least the latter 2/3 of any given console generations life cycle, but it takes *work* that many people just don't want to put into playing games.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Anonymous Coward]

You want people to run Windows in a VM? Write DirectX and OpenGL drivers that can use the host's GPU.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Anonymous Coward]

>> With Windows Vista/7 As long as your wifi/ethernet card installs

The last time I installed Ubuntu and Vista on the same machine, Ubuntu saw everything. Guess which piece of hardware Vista didn't see? Yeah, the wireless. I used Ubuntu to find a reference driver from the chipset manufacturer for Windows.

>> power management sucks and I only get about 1.5 hours of battery life

A known regression in the last few kernel versions that only affects certain hardware. It's being fixed. You can workaround it by running an older kernel (something pre-2.6.38, I think).

>> After they installed, it wouldn't boot past the Ubuntu splash screen. How the hell do you even troubleshoot this? What do you google?

Worst case?: Look at /var/log/apt/history.log to get the name of the packages you upgraded and roll them back (they're probably still in /var/cache/apt/archives - or easily downloadable or installable from your LiveCD if not). Most likely you can still get to a command line by booting in recovery mode and fix it without even using a LiveCD. If the problem was a kernel upgrade, simply select the old kernel from grub and you can probably boot all the way up to the desktop.

Now if you want to say that's too arcane for anyone to think of themselves, you could have googled for basic Linux troubleshooting, or the names of the packages you upgraded. You're probably *not* the first person in the world to encounter your problem. You could also have use the LiveCD to post a polite note detailing the issue in UbuntuForums - the people there love to help people that are actively *trying* to resolve a problem.

If you ever end up with a similarly borked Windows machine, as people have (rarely, I'll grant) encountered with service packs - good luck fixing it without a complete reinstall.

>> After asking my friends who are more well versed in Linux than I to have a look at it, their only advice was to reinstall 10.04

They are obviously *not* well versed in Linux if they couldn't tell you to look in /var/log. That's day one stuff. Apparently your friends have never had any issues with their Linux boxes if they didn't know to tell you there are complete boot logs in there.

>> you have to do some research on the system you buy if you plan to install Linux

You could... or you might install it on nine machines in the last couple of years, as I have, and never run into any problems. I believe you when you say you ran into issues with that weird multi-chipset video (especially considering ATI has a bad reputation when it comes to their proprietary Linux drivers), but I've spent more time finding drivers and removing viruses for Windows machines of friends than I've ever spent troubleshooting a Linux install, so your experiences are not typical from my point of view.

If you have time, please post your graphics issue in the HP and ATI forums to see what their Linux guys have to say. At the very least it will let them know that people want to use Linux on those, and at best they'll have a solution for you (or be able to tell you when they'll support it properly).

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Billly Gates]

If you want to try Linux, I had much better luck with Fedora on my laptop due to strange Atheros drivers that do not like the Ubuntu kernel. Fedora includes proprietary drivers as well upon request. Another strange bug I find is that flash for Ubuntu 64 will stop suddenly on sites like youtube.com, where it runs fine with Fedora. Also I get random disconnects with Ubuntu.

I have a feeling it might be due to some kernel patches that lower latency but end up hosing the connection by being too aggresive. Anyway Ubuntu is very cutting edge and would recommend SuSE or Fedora. Personally I am using Window 7 more as I used those other OSes when I hated Vista with a passion.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Anonymous Coward]

You Linux zealots are hypocrites. He sits there and says that "no one should run Windows outside of a VM" and you start whining about someone criticizing his post.

Now, why are YOU criticizing GP for saying what he will do? Fucking moron.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Anonymous Coward]

You were saying?

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Dahamma]

GTS 450? I said latest games... ;)

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Anonymous Coward]

That video card is not powerful enough for the latest games, however you can still build a decent gaming rig for about that price.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Jarik_Tentsu]

In unrelated news, 2011 marked a considerable drop in productivity and exam results of both secondary and tertiary students. Experts are baffled at the sudden drop.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Dan667]

haha, you mean like worrying if your credit card information has been stolen or how to fix the red ring of death. People thinking consoles are easier have just bought into having the wool pulled over their eyes.

Re:if you have a PC you don't need a console

[Anonymous Coward]

Really?

Brink
Crysis 2
Dirt 3
Dragon Age 2
The Witcher 2

And those are running with maximum settings and Fraps. GTS 450 is plenty powerful for the latest games.

Microsoft Promo

[hb79]

Not interested. In the future, please redirect these stories to Digg.

Re:Microsoft Promo

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you take your soap box and SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS?

Re:It *is* Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

No teen/twenties or anyone else will pick OSX instead of Windows if he/she plays games. Which is exactly the target audience with bundling PC and Xbox360.

But think it through -- if the teen/twenties market niche that plays games is always gonna pick windows, then why would Microsoft throw in a FREE Xbox360 to these people? That's like crack suppliers throwing in complementary Heroin bags for every $5 of crack purchased by their captive crack addicts. That doesn't make any kind of economic sense if the objective is to make obscene profits with the minimal amount of overhead. Why wouldn't the crack suppliers charge for the heroin as well if they know their addicts *want* the drugs?

That was quick

[GrumblyStuff]

Wasn't it just a week ago when the antitrust oversight over MS ended?

Re:That was quick

[hjf]

Mactard Fanboys: mod me down already and save your time, no need to read the rest.

God I wish some day Apple will become dominant (or relevant, at least), so you mactards start getting viruses and antitrust lawsuits and whatnot. MAYBE THEN we will see that every company becomes "evil" like Microsoft when it gets the chance.

Re:That was quick

[theurge14]

Relevant. Really?

Re:That was quick

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL, so you're butthurt over a company you support, and would rather it be a different company?

*insert trollface.jpg*
Problem?

Re:That was quick

[Anonymous Coward]

To use a car analogy, are you saying that there are antitrust issues if Ford gave me free gas for a year with the purchase of a new car?

Maybe Xbox hardware is cheaper than people think it is...

Re:That was quick

[Anonymous Coward]

The logic of your argument doesn't stand up to the hard facts. Mac OS9 had loads of viruses - and that's with a far smaller user base than OS X has.

Re:That was quick

[betterunixthanunix]

...because Apple is not evil enough already?

Re:That was quick

[GrumblyStuff]

No, I'm saying there's antitrust issues with MS using their OS division to support and promote their Xbox division (you know, like how it started and the Zune and the Windows phone and search...).

With your analogy, Ford would have to say, "Buy our car and we'll give you free gas for a year only from Ford Gas Stations."

Re:That was quick

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a Linux user and have grown to not like Apple much at all. So I'll just actually read the rest of your post and mod you down because not only are you offtopic, you're also a combative douchebag troll itchin' for a fight. That a good enough reason, fucknuts?

Re:That was quick

[Dutchmaan]

The 1990's called, they want their fanboy back.

Re:That was quick

[Anonymous Coward]

Simple cross-promoting your products is not against any law, jackweed. You don't get to make up a new reality just because you don't like a company.

Re:That was quick

[Locutus]

that's what I was thinking since they are not giving a PC with every XBox and instead it's the other way around, a free XBox with a PC. Since they still have a monopoly position in the PC OS market, isn't that is leveraging a monopoly position to benefit another product?

My guess is the timing of this is not unrelated to the end of the oversight.

LoB

Re:That was quick

[Paul1969]

For "loads" read somewhere around 20 or 30, including all variants. Not quite on a par with the hundreds of thousands affecting Windows.
Still, it does throw a wrench into the whole "security through obscurity" meme.

haha

[Anonymous Coward]

and yet we'll all still buy Macs :)

Console games that aren't ported to PCs

[tepples]

No teen/twenties or anyone else will pick OSX instead of Windows if he/she plays games.

Unless the gamer plays the kinds of games that aren't ported to PCs. There are some video game genres where the idea of "multi-platform release" is PS3+360 or PS3+360+Wii.

Someone used the "smells like desparation..."

[Anonymous Coward]

While yes it kind of does, but Apple does this with iPods every year as well and pretty much falls in line with the promotion price point for price point.

To me, it sounds like Microsoft is finally acknowledging they have brand recognition in the Xbox and they shouldn't compete with Apple's portable media players. And aside from Wii's strong numbers in sales, I still feel like the Xbox360 is the clear winner this generation. We like to give them red ring crap, but to me the BS with Sony where early consoles had huge fail rates, removal of features and dead online service killed them and the Wii just never had more than the bundle games like Wii Sports, Sports resort, Fitness, etc.

Re:Someone used the "smells like desparation..."

[spire3661]

Totally agree. MS won this round of consoles in a big way. They are going into the next generation stronger then anyone else. Nintendo is going ot have a REALLY hard time capturing the casual audience again like the did with wii. I was a big PS3 supporter in the beginning because i really liked the hardware ( say what you like, the PS3 hardware is MILES beyond the crudity of the Xbox 360), but they are dead to me now.

Re:Someone used the "smells like desparation..."

[h4rr4r]

Are you high?
Nintendo won in sales in a big way. PS3 is the runner up and Xbox360 might pay for itself. It still will not pay for the xbox debt, nor are its world wide sales figures that good.

Re:Someone used the "smells like desparation..."

[Anonymous Coward]

MS is angling to capitalize as much as possible on the PSN fiasco IMO

Re:Someone used the "smells like desparation..."

[Anonymous Coward]

What? How is the PS3 the runner-up, except in certain select markets?

Nintendo won in hardware sales and hardware margins, undoubtedly, and did some good things for their perception. Xbox also did very well for itself in terms of perception (particularly in the North American market). The Xbox 360 has more than paid for itself, what it hasn't necessarily done is paid for the original xbox. Which is important in terms of "has Ballmer done a good job" but when you're talking about the future of the Xbox then looking at that is falling prey to the sunk cost fallacy. It has absolutely no bearing on spire3661's point, which is about being positioned for the next generation.

With that said, Sony was easily the best positioned for this generation and didn't do so well. Nintendo was best positioned for the generation before that and kind of flopped to the worst position before making a comeback. "Positioning" just doesn't seem to be that important in this industry, once you're in the top-3.

Re:Someone used the "smells like desparation..."

[CastrTroy]

Personally, I think the Wii was great. Especially if you ignore all that Wii sports related stuff. The first party games are awesome. SM Galaxy, Paper Mario, The New SMB, Twilight Princess, Metroid. Plus the fact that you can buy all the old console games. I mean, I'm not running out to buy them all, but it was a great feature. I can't believe it took so long for something like that to happen. Also, there's a lot of great WiiWare titiles. It's nice to be able to spend only $10 and get a really great game. Apart from the graphics, the Wii had just about everything I wanted out of a console. Without breaking the bank. Sure they are all cheap now, but when they were all shiny and new, the Wii had a very clear price advantage, and gave me many years of solid gaming. Well worth the money I paid.

"But does it run linux?"

[Ungrounded Lightning]

Seriously:
  1) Buy the $699 PC.
  2) Get the free XBox console.
  3) Install Linux on the PC. (Dual-boot so you can hang on to any Windows-only functionality you need for the XBox or on a separate, swappable, hard drive to provide an "airgap firewall" against possible dual-boot cross-OS malware.)
  4) Have fun with Linux.
  5) Goodbye Microsoft profit!

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[jawtheshark]

Goodbye Microsoft profit? How? They got the money from you already. On top of that they'll get money on each xbox game you buy. They might not get the desired effect, which is customer binding. Monetary profit will be theirs no matter what.

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[maxwell demon]

5) Goodbye Microsoft profit!

No, the Microsoft profit for the computer was already realized the moment you bought that Windows PC. It doesn't matter for their profit if you actually run it. And if you happen to buy games for that XBox, that's also profit for MS, independent of what you do on your PC.

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[hjf]

There is a prerequisite: you need to be a smug anti-microsoft linux fanboy first.

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[westlake]

3) Install Linux on the PC.

Not going to happen.

If you are a gamer on a budget Gog.com has 300 classic DOS and Windows games ready to run under Windows 7, none of them costing more than $10.

If you have student ID then Windows Academic Professional is $80 direct from Microsoft.com.

Expect steeply discounted academic upgrades to Windows 7 Pro, etc., as well.

Expect academic pricing elsewhere for any other must-have software. Expect anything of interest in FOSS to have long since been ported to Windows.

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[Anonymous Coward]

e.g. Slashdot, although most people only pretend to be one on the Internet.

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[Missing.Matter]

Don't forget Microsoft Dreamspark which offers Visual Studio and other developer tools for free for students.

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[Americium]

What hypervisor or VM gives 3d hardware support for directx 10 games? None? So basically I get none of the Windows functionality I need, but instead all the headaches that linux gives; for me it's bad sound quality and no raid support, just fakeraid, which is fake.

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[Requiem18th]

Sort of agree. While I've become so used to Linux that I actually feel crippled on Windows, I know that if I spend enough time tinkering with a Windows PC I can get a lot of the same functionality, specially if you are willing to fork some bucks. I know this first hand because I used to customize windows beyond recognition when I was younger.

And compatibility is supreme. I've had problems, but pretty much everything works. In Linux only FOSS stuff (and some server stuff like ORACLE's) work reliably.

The thing is, I thrust (selected distros of) Linux and FOSS much more than MS and proprietary programs that mess up with the registry with all the activation key drama, uninstalable crap and the general antagonist relation that windows users have with their software.

Oh and I also don't support Microsoft. I don't know why this guy above derides it like "smug anti-microsoft linux fanboy" as if there wasn't lot's of legitimate reasons to disprove of their behavior.

Is having principles really so passé?

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[Ungrounded Lightning]

Goodbye Microsoft profit? How? They got the money from you already.

I was presuming they'd subsidized the deal in order to try to hook the student into future purchases (and specifying their stuff for businesses after graduation). This IS the typical operation of such programs (and has been since at least the middle of the 20th century.

If that's the case they make a loss on the deal. Then if the student converts the subsidized equipment to run a competitive system, they lose much of the brand loyalty they tried to buy.

If the finances are better than breakeven then, yes, they would still make some money on the deal.

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[SwedishPenguin]

If you are a gamer on a budget Gog.com has 300 classic DOS and Windows games ready to run under Windows 7, none of them costing more than $10

http://www.dosbox.com/
http://www.winehq.org/

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[lucian1900]

GoG games are awesome on my OS X laptop, with wine. I've yet to have one not work, but I may have been lucky.

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[farble1670]

You already paid MSFT indirectly when you bought the pc with a licensed copy of windows. The only posible way that makes them lose is if you might have bought MSFT office.

Re:"But does it run linux?"

[nschubach]

Just don't buy any XBox games. That's simple. Heck, you could even torch the 360 just to prove that you are a rat bastard.

Obviously a respons to the Apple promotion

[Twid]

Obviously this is a response to Apple's back-to-school promotion, which they have run for several years. Last year that program got you exactly the same amount in credit ($199) towards any iPod when you bought any Apple laptop.

One advantage of the Apple program is that you could trade up and get a higher priced iPod touch model and still get the $199 in credit. It looks like the Microsoft program only gets you the slightly gimped 4GB Xbox with no trade-up. A lot of students might be bummed when they realize they need a $100 hard drive accessory to play a lot of the games.

Not a bad deal, but I wonder how many Xboxes will be given to students who were going to buy a laptop anyway. I think the Apple motivation is obvious: to get students to switch to Apple. Not sure if the formula works the same with Microsoft.

Re:Obviously a respons to the Apple promotion

[fermion]

What would be cool if this summer the $199 promo include iPads. This way the college kids could play angry birds during the boring history class.

Re:Obviously a respons to the Apple promotion

[timothyf]

More likely a response to the fact that something like 50-60% of college students are buying Macs for school instead of PCs. Question will be whether or not students are buying the Mac because of the iPod credit or whether it's more some other reason, and whether the free XBox will be enough to reverse that trend.

Re:Obviously a respons to the Apple promotion

[Radiophobic]

I know someone who is about to buy the lowest rung macbook because they can't afford a better one so they can get the free ipod touch. I offered him my ipod touch in the meantime so he could save up some money and buy a better computer in a year. So yes, people are buying mac's (at least partially) for the ipod.

Not much different

[Anonymous Coward]

Not much different from Apple bundling iPods with MacBooks.

Re:Not much different

[hedwards]

The difference is that Apple isn't the dominant player in the computer market. Plus a $199 coupon or free product is generous, but it's not that generous for some of the more high end laptops they sell. And they aren't in danger of controlling the market just because they're giving away a few iPods.

Re:Not much different

[geekmux]

Not much different from Apple bundling iPods with MacBooks.

Really? When was the last time you heard of a student failing exams because he stayed up all night playing the latest MMORPG game on his...iPod?

No, an iPod isn't even close to an XBox when it comes to the distraction factor, especially in high school or college.

Re:Not much different

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, because clearly students don't currently have access to video game consoles, or computers capable of doing anything other than schoolwork in college. I'm sure that the marginal addition of an Xbox is going to push all those studious undergrads over the edge into slackerdom.

Plus, the kids who would fail a test by playing too much Xbox already have them.

Re:Not much different

[egranlund]

iPod Touches/iPhones are infinetly more distracting than an xbox. All you can do on the xbox is play games (which you have to pay for). While on the ipod/iphone you could play hundreds of games without playing a penny. Not that I think we should be blaming MS or Apple for "distracting" us with a free xbox or ipod. In reality, if you have such little self control that you can't hunker down and study and fail a class because of it then you really have some soul searching to do regarding your priorities in life.

too bad...

[nite_warrior]

the world will all be destroy after rapture the day before the giveaway kicks in

Re:It *is* Desperation

[bluemonq]

Because Microsoft would probably rather you play games on the 360 instead of the PC? They're probably not losing anymore money on the console at this point, and they're also making money off of agreements and XBLA.

No Super Street Fighter IV for PC

[tepples]

I guess you could sell the xbox and use the money to buy games for the PC.

Provided that the games you want to play are even ported to the PC. The PC is stuck on the old version of Street Fighter IV, while the Xbox 360 has the current version.

Re:No Super Street Fighter IV for PC

[Americium]

What about all the kinect games, those are all exclusive to xbox, and are awesome to play/exercise with.

Profit in games... and kudos for no rebate!

[__aazsst3756]

MS does not make much if any money on the hardware to begin with, they make it on the games. This may end up making them a lot of money. Big kudos for them not requiring you to buy an Xbox and turn in a rebate to get your money back like Apple does with the iPod promotion.

Manufacturing cost of an Xbox 360?

[dryriver]

There are 4 ways for something like this to work out financially for MS. 1) Either an Xbox 360's true manufacturing cost in 2011 is a mere 50 - 70 dollars a unit (ageing hardware + economies of scale from manufacturing tens of millions of them). 2) Or people who choose to become "Windows PC users" for the next 5 - 10 years will get shafted out of money so frequently and in so many different little ways that the cost of the free Xbox becomes negligible in the long run. 3) Or the creation cost of 1 unit of a typical Xbox 360 game works out at 3 - 5 dollars a pop while the retail price for the same unit is 40 dollars, so the profit made from selling a few games cancels out the cost of giving away a free console. 4) Or the next Xbox 2012 or whatever they will call it is R&D and almost ready to launch and MS banks on the fact that the free Xbox 360 users will willingly fork out dollar 699 or so to upgrade to the new Xbox 2012.

Confused...

[laxguy]

by these commentors...

You buy a cheap PC, where Microsoft makes money from the license for Win7, they throw in a CHEAP 360 (basically the Arcade version, which I believe is is like 150-200$). After you've got a nice new free console, what do you do? Buy another controller (money to MS), buy some games (more money), buy xbox live (more money), buy a new hard drive for more space (more money), etc. This isn't desperation at all, this is just another way for Microsoft to make gobs of money. If they had given away an Elite Xbox, then there would be less money re-couped but they would still end up making a profit in the long run.

This is directed (like they say) at college kids, going to school for the first time and looking for a new computer.. AND A FREE CONSOLE?! HOLY SHIT! That sounds like a great deal to me, now I can go to school and play Xbox with all my friends and I don't have to shell out an extra 200$ for the console!

I don't understand how people aren't getting this..

Re:Confused...

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot is a den of freetards, as you know, they are not exactly know to be logical when it comes to hating MS.

Re:Confused...

[westlake]

I don't understand how people aren't getting this..

It gets better.

The controllers work on both systems.

The retailer can point the student buyer or his parents to the dorm-room sized HDTV. The soundbar. The webcam for Skype...

Re:Confused...

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds like a great deal to me, now I can go to school and play Xbox with all my friends and I don't have to shell out an extra 200$ for the console!

Who doesn't have a 360 now that wants one? The 360 is pretty much ending its life cycle, there aren't any banner games being released for it anymore. Of course they're giving these away, it's an easy way to make a last buck off of something that's going to be considered worthless pretty soon.

Re:Confused...

[Requiem18th]

People ARE getting this, it's just the Apple fanboys in denial.

Re:Confused...

[Kenja]

Apple should offer a free Pippin if they buy an iMac!

Re:Confused...

[rssrss]

"I can go to school and play Xbox with all my friends"

Think of all the money you will save by flunking out in your first semester.

Re:Confused...

[Your.Master]

Any kid with siblings going to school.

You don't generally have an xbox 360 for every kid. Then they start going off to school, but the xbox is staying at home...

Re:Confused...

[Requiem18th]

Offtopic but that gamepad wouldn't be bad at all for an old HTPC settup.

Re:Confused...

[laxguy]

I don't have a 360, and if I was in the market for a new computer that happened to come with one, I would get that deal. Look at the PS2.. it may not be making huge sales, but I guarantee you people are still buying them and playing them, because companies keep making games for them. Just because it's near the end of its life cycle doesn't mean that it's going to disintegrate or blow up, it's still going to be played for years to come.

Re:Confused...

[laxguy]

Trying to imply that video games are going to cause kids to fail out of school.. seriously? you're a retard.

Re:Confused...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, buy a cheap dell for school and get an xbox. What's the problem? Should they give an IPod instead?

This is what we call in the business a "Promotional Offer", maybe you've heard of them?

Not sure they thought this through...

[jonadab]

If this hits a significant percentage of students, it could make for an "interesting" correlation between use of Windows 7 and what kinds of grades the students get.

HP or dell only or any PC? also will best buy play

[Joe The Dragon]

HP or dell only or any PC? also will best buy play hardball if you don't buy the geek suard add ons?

Timing

[creat3d]

The timing on this is perfect. With Sony's reputation going down the drain, handing out Xboxes is an interesting way to take advantage of the situation... Not only will people have to buy the controllers, game, Live, etc as Laxguy posted, they're essentially turning the Sony situation even more in their favor. Personally, I'd just sell the Xbox as I'm a PC gamer, but for the same reasons I would never consider an HP/Dell/"X" pre-built computer... Still, for college kids this is good. I'm still an MS hater though. Fuck you Bill!

Re:Timing

[creat3d]

Also, FTFA: "Mashable also notes that it’s a little odd for Microsoft to start the promotion just as school is letting out for the summer." Yeah, but it makes a lot of sense with Sony just getting hacked AGAIN...

Re:Timing

[thetoadwarrior]

Keep in mind that with globals sales the PS3 had just taken over the xbox 360 so they're in third place now and a bit desperate.

this just confirms

[nimbius]

microsoft is still genuinely dedicated to higher education and wants to help students more than Apple. im a computer science student and wasting money on a mac just doesnt make sense for me if all it does is get me a discount on an ipod.

If i win a promotional PC, does slashdot recommend FreeBSD or Linux for CS300?

Re:this just confirms

[hjf]

So, why can't you use the FREE XNA development kit to do programming for the 360? Just saying...

Re:this just confirms

[bedouin]

They don't give a shit about helping students, they want to lock your whole department into their software and subsequently have people in the job market who only know how to use their tools. They are competing with free software so they have no choice but to practically give stuff away.

The final blow to the US education system

[tchernobog]

Do you think that any high-school student receiving a free console will study anything for the next year?

Of course, you might point out that most of these students already own a console (often a Xbox, too). Then these might be sold on eBay to Taiwanese students, and at least it's worth 40-50 $.

Re:The final blow to the US education system

[creat3d]

I think the US education system has a lot more problems on its hands... Not that video games aren't one of them, but I'm pretty sure excessive narcotic consumption is a lot more detrimental to one's willpower and desire to succeed than competitive gameplay.

Re:The final blow to the US education system

[hjf]

By your logic, we should assume that if they get no xbox they will study EVERYTHING for the next year!

1) Ban XBOXes
2) See grades skyrocket
3) ???
4) Profit!

Re:The final blow to the US education system

[Radiophobic]

People can play video games without ruining the rest of their life.

Re:The final blow to the US education system

[bedouin]

Not that it matters since college in America is just a $100,000 keg party.

Re:The final blow to the US education system

[shutdown -p now]

Do you think that any high-school student receiving a free console will study anything for the next year?

Hopefully a few would study XNA.

(or do I have my hopes way too high?)

Re:The final blow to the US education system

[Anonymous Coward]

Logical fallacy.

Xbox -implies-> no studying / bad grades.

Lack of Xbox doesn't necessarily imply kids will study. They might just take up fencing instead.

It's Free

[Anonymous Coward]

First off if it's free why even complain... That's like complaining that someone gave you a free HDTV and all you complain about is it has 1 HDMI..... WHO CARES IT'S FREE. This is great for the people that are going to buy a laptop anyways so it's win win.
Why do the apple people always come in and act like they are better when it has nothing to do with them?
Apples DO NOT run corporations, fortune 500 companies, gaming tournaments etc... They use outdated hardware any geek knows this and Linux is more stable then OS X ever will be. Sorry for raging but Apple people are like those annoying girls that won't shut up we don't care about it, we know you spent way too much on that average machine. End of Story

Anyways it’s a great marketing program from Microsoft, it's all over the web and I think that's what they wanted and most companies make 80ish% off their gaming division so that Xbox to a new user is a gold mine for them anyway you put it.

Little Brother

[Anonymous Coward]

http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/

So where can I get a distro for paranoid linux?

It's really not a big problem

[Sycraft-fu]

There are some specific titles that don't get ported and if those are the things that matter to you then sure. However in general there is good cross platform availability. Most games launch at the same time (like, say Brink, or NFS: Shift 2), some take a bit but still come over. Also sometimes the PC gets a better version. Your SF4 example is an interesting one. The Version of SF4 on the PC is larger and more complete than on any of the consoles. Likewise Super Street Fighter 4, which comes out in July, will again have more content on the PC. So there is a wait, but you get more for it.

So really unless you have to have a title that is 360 only, like say Halo, then the PC is a perfectly valid option. Goes the other way too, the PC has games that the consoles don't, particular MMOs. World of Warcraft, Rift, Lego Universe that kind of thing. There are non-MMOs too, particular strategy games like Shogun 2 Total War, Civilization 5, and so on but other games as well like Witcher 2 and Darkspore.

Re:It's really not a big problem

[tepples]

Super Street Fighter 4, which comes out in July

I wasn't aware of that. But the consoles still got it a year early, and Capcom initially claimed that due to rampant infringement, no PC version would be produced.

So really unless you have to have a title that is 360 only, like say Halo, then the PC is a perfectly valid option.

In some cases, it isn't just a single title that's exclusive to the consoles but an entire genre. What games like Mario Party or Party Animals do you recommend for a home theater PC?

Re:It's really not a big problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, how about Mario Party? The nice thing about having a PC is you can also emulate a lot of other systems, including the Gamecube and Wii. You can even use Gamecube and Wii controllers with a PC.

Re:It *is* Desperation

[Pinky's Brain]

Then 3 years on when those college kids want a new laptop they will buy a Macbook, because PC gaming has no relevance any more to them ... and Microsoft loses mindshare for their bread and butter product, Windows.

Win a battle to lose the war ...

Second prize ...

[David Gerard]

Second prize, two 360s! The new 360 logo.

A question of profitability

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple make several hundred dollars on the sale of a macbook, but are happy to give up most of that profit to attract a student with a free iPod. It's a similar strategy to that used by banks during fresher's week - hook a student and you've got a good chance to keep them for life. They're breaking even on a sale in the short-term for more profitable sales in the long-term. Apple have huge market share amongst students and they're keeping a lot of that market share amongst graduates.

A single OEM licence of Windows 7 costs much less than an Xbox 360. Major computer manufacturers get huge discounts for volume. Last time I checked Isuppli figures, the Xbox costs more to make than the retail price. However you slice it, Microsoft will take a significant loss on the deal. This might be OK if we expected the promotion to gain them market share, but at best they're treading water. They're making a loss in the short-term to just maintain their existing volume of sales. That's seriously bad news and to my nose stinks of desperation.

Short on MSFT, long on AAPL.

Just what every student needs...

[geekmux]

...a reason to stay up 27 hours straight and play video games instead of studying for final exams. Somehow I doubt the marketing department is going to be cognizant of final exam week across the entire nation when they release the next version of Halo/COD/BF.

Of course we all know the blatant motivation behind Microsoft doing this, but what exactly is the educational need for an XBox in college? This is a bit different than bundling an MP3 player with a laptop with regards to the distraction factor. Of course, why am I even asking this when it seems to be a financial win for everyone but the failing student.

But does it run dual-boot? (And $699 PC?)

[billstewart]

If you're a gamer on a budget, or a college student on a budget, why are you buying a $699 PC? Seems awfully pricy, and I'd think if you were going to college, either you've already got a game machine, or you picked a really silly time of your life to buy one. I suppose you could buy the $699 PC-Xbox bundle, sell the Xbox, and end up with a better PC than you might have otherwise bought, but it's still kind of silly.

Just about everything except games will work fine in a virtual machine, and even many games will these days, but maybe you'd want to run dual-boot instead of just VM.

Re:But does it run dual-boot? (And $699 PC?)

[westlake]

If you're a gamer on a budget, or a college student on a budget, why are you buying a $699 PC?

It will be a laptop.

This is what $750 buys if you shop around a bit:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-RBDV7-4087CL/15746840

Re:But does it run dual-boot? (And $699 PC?)

[Anonymous Coward]

Fun fact: "westlake" has known ties to MSFT.

he's a shill, and unlike the other astroturfers on slashdot, doesn't even get paid well do to it.

Re:But does it run dual-boot? (And $699 PC?)

[CastrTroy]

That's a refurb. If there's one thing I've learned in shopping for computers for many years, it's, "NEVER BUY REFURBS". You could probably get that same machine for an extra $50. It's seriously not worth it to have a product that someone already else found defective. I've seen so many refurbs ship with problems right out of the box. People think they are saving money. But in the end they're just buying a headache. While I'm sure that somebody will chime in with their anecdote of how well their refurb has worked for them, I have worked in an office that tried to run all the systems from refurbs. The number of problems in that office was many many times more than what came out of any othter office dealing with new PCs.

Bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

This will be the worst thing to happen to retention rates since lottery funded scholarships.

Can't comment on the youtube video

[thetoadwarrior]

I've never commented on the video in the past and I'm already blocked? WTF, does Microsoft hunt down people they think won't agree with them and block them? I guess if you're losing your grip on computing you have to pull out all the stops to make it look like you're still awesome.

Re:Can't comment on the youtube video

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations. You are the dumbest fuck on slashdot.

Re:It *is* Desperation

[Osgeld]

most people stick with what they know

Too Little, Too Late for College...

[BoRegardless]

High schools and colleges are increasingly overrun with Apple products.

No kid I know begs his parents for a "PC"...no one.

Re:Too Little, Too Late for College...

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably because only entitled pricks who still beg their parents for shit at 18 have an affinity for Macs.

Re:Too Little, Too Late for College...

[bloodhawk]

That is the entire point of the promotion, no kid begs for a PC, but a shit ton of them beg for a gaming console such as an Xbox or a PS3.

Re:Too Little, Too Late for College...

[flimflammer]

On the flipside, no kid I know begs for a mac. All depends on who you know.

Re:It *is* Desperation

[muindaur]

I use windows for games, sure, but I don't like the 360 for a number of reasons ($60/y for playing games online is one.) Even in college I stuck with the PS2 (PS3 came out senior year) because the titles I liked were on it: FF, Crash, Ratchet, Spyro.

Making my preference is for the PS3. I grew up on both of those, so the controls/interfaces are the things I'm most familiar with. Though I'm now leaning towards OSX after the Vista fiasco, and the fact I'm not much of a fan of Windows 7.

So not everyone that uses Windows will necessarily use an XBOX. That's the reason they want to give them out. In order to get more people to play on them.

TWO network connected devices? Too bad...

[Anonymous Coward]

...nearly all college's student housing network usage policies only allow you to register just one MAC address device on their dormatory networks.

Any attempts to circumvent this policy through the use of NATing or MAC spoofing is grounds for immediate removal from student housing for the rest of your undergraduate career.

Posting anonymously because I'm a network administrator for a major American public university that has a policy like this.

Re:TWO network connected devices? Too bad...

[netsharc]

Wow... what a lame policy... my dorm (albeit it's not really part of the uni) had 4 IPs for each room.

So does that include WiFi devices? Since most students will probably have a WiFi-enabled phone, and few will probably even have iPads...

Re:It *is* Desperation

[rhook]

They're been making a profit on the 360 for several years now.

Microsoft Promo: a PC and Xbox In Every Dorm Room

[ALeader71]

In a soon to be college orientation: "Look to your left. Look to your right. Those with free XBoxes will likely fail out by mid-term. The rest of you will still be here."

The Dorks at Microsoft

[bill_mcgonigle]

You could sit in your dorm room playing XBox with your nerdy friends or you could actually go meet a girl and take her out.

Or study and make your $100,000 of student debt worthwhile.

Re:It *is* Desperation

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 insightful

"no one"

[tepples]

Why are you criticizing him as if he were positing it as a general solution?

I couldn't think of any other meaning for "no one" in "IMHO, no one should run Windows outside of a VM", especially the way VortexCortex bolded it.

To all those imagining profit . . .

[bedouin]

Good luck being one of dozens on Craigslist trying to offload a console and shitty PC next semester.

Is Microsoft trying to increase Apple sales?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get it. I'm a parent. My kid is heading off to college. Like most his age, he's not focused on his future but more on goofing off, slacking, and having fun.

I can go with a Mac and an iPod for him. At least the iPod lets him listen to music while he studies, drowning out the noise of his roommates... (Plus, you know, fewer viruses and other problems.)

But a Win7 Laptop and an Xbox?

I'm paying out a fortune for a degree that's largely overpriced in a bubble market for him. Why the HELL would I want him to have an Xbox at college?

On the other hand, I could see a lot of late twenty-somethings or early thirty-somethings in a pre-kids situation picking up laptops who would benefit from xboxen. They tend to have a lot of disposable income, having not yet realized the need to save and invest. That could benefit microsoft from secondary sales of software and peripherals...

But do college kids really need more video games? What were they thinking???

Shady tactics

[motang]

LOL, what a shady way to one up Sony and Apple!

Why flamebait?

[Billly Gates]

Have any moderators been to college in the last 5 years?

I was in a minority as a pc user. All the cool students own macs as I would guess the margin is over 75% mac users. Those with pcs such as myself bought them before school and were older/middle aged students with real jobs. The 18-24 crowd is very Mac oriented.

Microsoft is in trouble as these generation Y users will eventually go into the workplace and want Macs at work and home. Corporations already are being more lenient in letting some of them use Macs instead of PCs.

Re:It *is* Desperation

[atlasdropperofworlds]

It's a pretty big niche. In fact, far more teens/twenties play games than not. Besides, there is a real trend where they treat apple like a college fling.

Enjoy The Dual Deaths

[Anonymous Coward]

Enjoy BSOD with win7 and RROD with xbox 360.

How do I dumped disc?

[tepples]

The nice thing about having a PC is you can also emulate a lot of other systems, including the Gamecube and Wii

First, how would one lawfully get a GameCube or Wii game onto a PC to play it? A PC's DVD-ROM drive can't read GameCube game discs or Wii game discs. Second, as I understand it, there are still several Wii games in this genre whose graphics on Dolphin are incorrect to the point of unplayability, such as WarioWare Smooth Moves. Or were you recommending choosing games from Dolphin's compatibility list? That's little different from advocating switching to Linux and then choosing your games from Wine's compatibility list.

Re:How do I dumped disc?

[Anonymous Coward]

Put disc in DVD drive and read it. Maybe you just have a shitty drive that won't work.

Dolphin compatibility is constantly improving and you can run Gamecube/Wii games at 1080p with it. I'll take a PC with almost the entire library of DOS, Windows, NES, SNES, N64, Game Boy, Game Boy Advance, Nintendo DS, SMS, Genesis, Dreamcast, PlayStation, PlayStation 2, TurboGrafx 16, Atari 2600, Atari 5200, Atari 7800, Atari Lynx, Atari Jaguar, Colecovision, Vectrex, C64, Amiga, MSX, Neo Geo and MAME arcade games over a console with an infinitely limited library to choose from.

Of course someone like you is always going to come up with some kind of excuse, so you're better off with your toy console. Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying all of the aforementioned on my PC.

Re:How do I dumped disc?

[tepples]

Put disc in DVD drive and read it. Maybe you just have a shitty drive that won't work.

Or maybe the discs use a variant of DVD's pre-modulation scrambling that regular drive firmware can't read. See this article.

I'll take a PC with almost the entire library of [a bunch of classic video game consoles, many of which use cartridges]

But then how do you copy games that you've bought into the PC? The only NES cartridge reader I know of is a front-loading NES console that has had the CopyNES board soldered into it, and I gather that a lot of my family doesn't know how to solder.

Of course someone like you is always going to come up with some kind of excuse

My only excuse is that I have been advised not to recommend mass copyright infringement to other people.

Re:It *is* Desperation

[netsharc]

Hey, buy a Windows laptop, get a free Xbox360, put laptop on eBay, get a Macbook for trouble-free computing...

All the clueless PC users in one local network in a dorm, what a great ground if another 0-day exploit Windows worm decides to break havoc...