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Skype Crashes and Burns In Worldwide Outage
Stoobalou writes "VoIP and instant messaging service Skype has disappeared from the Internet, nary a fortnight after Microsoft snaffled up the outfit in a $8.5 billion deal."
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Microsoft is not running Skype yet. It takes months for these deals to go through. And TFA suggests that Skype has never gone down before, which is BS. 'Disappeared from the Internet'? Seriously?
The only useful thing in this submission is that I learned the word 'snaffled.'
I confess to having run Internet publications using Skype as an instant messaging service for over seven years now.
In all that time the service has never once failed - until today.
So you don't remember December's outage, do you? Haters gonna hate.
maybe this is a european thing?
I call bullshit. From the article - "In all that time the service has never once failed - until today." Perhaps it never failed for the author previously, but Skype has had several notable outages in its history. I'm not huge fan of M$, but the article shows nothing to justify blaming this on M$.
So Skype is already adopting MS's reliability
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
Or, you know, it could just be a server issue. If you look, and ask Skype users, the outage is already over.
I know, not as fun as MS-bashing, but the best bashing is based on fact.
Technical instructions to fix the current Skype issue affecting a small number of users – easier solution coming soon! http://bit.ly/iLbgpy
See https://twitter.com/#!/Skype
If you're lucky enough to live in North America that is. Google Voice isn't internationally available as far as I know.
Isn't this the second time Skype went down? Wonder if it's the same cause: blogs.skype.com/en/2010/12/cio_update.html (CIO update: Post-mortem on the Skype outage)
Like Sony, I thought they would have fixed this problem by now, but guess not.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Even though most Slashdotters will laugh about it, I don't think it is linked to the acquisition of Skype by Microsoft... The acquisition is so recent, I don't think anybody other than high ranked executives could have put their nose in Skype business, so I don't think Microsoft developpers could have caused such a mess.
Been connected to Skype, and chatting, all day. No issues. www.skype.com working just fine.
With statements like "has disappeared from the Internet" and "worldwide outage", I would expect to have... you know.. have noticed something?
So, let's rephrase TFS to something more like: "Some users/areas experiencing issues reaching Skype servers and services"
It redirects to http://www.skype.com/intl/nl/home
Featuring the "Works on My Machine" certificate. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/03/the-works-on-my-machine-certification-program.html
I'd really want to use Skype, but its no use as nobody i knows does so. Vendor lockout!?
Luckely here, the Dutch government has ruled that Dutch telecom companies may NOT charge extra for using instant messaging (or similar) apps on their network.
Its a mess right now, but its likely a free (possibly opensource) alternative will either launch or stand out of the crowd in the years to come.
Hivemind harvest in progress..
Step 1: Uninstall Skype
Step 2: Go to %AppData%\Skype\YourUsername rename config.xml to config.bak
Step 3: Go to %AppData%\Skype rename shared.xml to shared.bak
Step 4: Reinstall Skype
Step 5: Profit!
right...
Skype is not down at all, not the service nor the website....this should not be on the front news page as it is sending out FUD.
I strongly believe that the investment firm running Skype has kept it alive and looking healthy for as long as necessary.
Now the deal with Microsoft is made, there is no reason to keep the extra staff on board to keep it running without issues.
This also explains the sudden pull out from Astrix support.
This is the world we live in when money driven firms keep the windows clean, until it is no longer necessary.
The correct term is window dressing.
Microsoft, good luck with your recent purchase.
Load New Commander (Y/N)?
Im on it and OP doesnt obviously know WTF hes talking about.
I know this is /. but damn the FUD from /. is getting out of hand.
No problem here — both Skype website and calls working fine.
there was a huge outage a couple months ago...
And I'm certain I've seen a skype outage story at slashdot in the past.
I haven't been seeing nearly as many ads for Eastern European mail-order-bride services in my skype account lately. Now I know why.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Heaven knows what the update pushed to people. It probably also caused the load.
Read radical news here
It (skype) has been great when talking internationally to family and relationships.
now if I can get them on Google Voice.
Who wants to bet that Microsoft tried to replace the OS of the Skype servers with Windows? They did it for Hotmail, it caused a lot of problems, in the end they had to nearly double the number of servers because Windows wasn't good enough compared to the old Unix servers.
Given that the deal hasn't happened yet (Microsoft hasn't bought Skype, they have proposed to buy Skype and both are waiting for regulatory approval before actually going through with it, which probably will take months and months) I'm willing to put money against that bet if you are.
Skype is working just fine. I just call tested in on my iPhone 4 moments ago and the polite British test call lady sounded as clear as ever. I think she's British. Never really stopped to play her accent. This is another Orson Welles caliber example of Internet reporting. Bravo.
on linux, it just crashes after ~10sec after start . This happens on any client i have tested, from Ubuntu 10.04 to 11.04.
It's supposed to be "News For Nerds", just report actual fucking facts related to science or tech, and not anti-MS bullshit or what color muffin Steve Jobs had for breakfast!
It's working fine for me in Northern Virginia at 9:33 AM EDT - Cox Cable.
Yeah but now all skype calls start with the windows 95 startup sound.....
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Skype is still functioning for me.
Mod parent up. All a service should provide is a directory for a peer to peer service, and gateways to landlines etc.
Yea, not remotely fact based, Skype has had shitload of outages over the past 7 years, several longer than this one. And the suggestion that this was because MS wanted to replace the servers with Windows is just retarded. MS bought Skype less than a month ago, they haven't even taken over operations yet. To replace the server OS on a system that large would take 6 months to a year from planning to implementation at an absolute minimum. This has nothing to do with MS, and is basically a non story. Yes, Skype had a relatively brief outage, just like all there other outages that were not covered here. RingCentral is down now too, do we need a story about that? How about the 30 minute outage on Wikipedia yesterday? Oh wait, this wasn't a story about an outage, and the summary might as well have been [insert M$ bashing below].
Anyone remember when Microsoft back in 2007 released an update to Windows that took out Skype's servers? Flooded Skype's servers for several days.
Skype was down for a while last December for millions of users
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/12/22/skype-down-for-millions-of-users
it's good to see shakespeare still employed and writing story summaries on the internet
but he could do with less colorful opinionated superlatives and just relate the facts
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
1) Poorly researched, out of date information.
2) Inaccurate, inflammatory headline.
3) Short, information-free stub.
Sure seems like him.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
I have an Ooma phone. Actually it's a device that plugs into my internet router, and into which you can plug regular landline phones.
It's like 15 bucks a *year* for taxes, and you get free calling in the US. No other charges. And you don't need to own a computer to use it. It's not like magic-jack where you need to have your computer running.
I also put 50 bucks in my pre-pay account, so I can use 411, and make international calls. The rates are competitive to skype rates for international calls. AND, you get a real landline phone number and can make calls to landline phone numbers. So instead of messing with a computer, when I want to make an international call, I just pick up the phone and dial. If someone calls me from another country, I tell them I'll call them back since it's cheaper for me than it would be for them.
Now the device is 200 bucks, but it's already paid for itself since I don't pay a telephone bill for a landline. And the call quality = that of any landline I've ever had.
No monthly fee. In a year, it pays for itself, and that's it. What a great deal! If you move, take your Ooma with you, and you KEEP THE SAME PHONE NUMBER no matter where you live, ( unless you want to change it ). Cell phones are nice, but they can be expensive. And if you are required to keep one for work, then having 2 in your pocket is annoying. Ooma is a way to have your OWN phone number forever for minimal money.
Why am I shilling? Because I want others to get a great deal. I don't want Ooma to go out of business because it gives customers such a good deal. ( I have no reason to suppose that it would.... ) For being such a good deal, I'll plug them once in a while.
...
Could you use a more sensationalist headline please? A worldwide outrage? Surely it must be worse than that if some users are experiencing connection issues. Put rebellion and pillages in there too... why not? And "crashes and burns"? That sounds like an accident, change that to "Microsoft murders, mutilates and disposes of Skype"!
Why is this modded down? Google, is that you?
Skype has central servers, which is what they are referring to. In fact, does anyone know if Skype even is peer-to-peer, rather than a peerserverpeer model?
there was a huge outage a couple months ago...
All Skype users know they've had outages (and MS haven't even bought Skype yet!), this is just FUD and falsehoods to a shameful degree just to bash MS (but are we confirming that we need to completely invent reasons to do that?)
... maybe take the time to check system status :
http://heartbeat.skype.com/
and/or read published solution:
https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10874/I-m-having-problems-with-Skype-today?frompage=category
And the fact is that Skype has run flawlessly for at least seven years (according to the article) without a hiccup
Well if that's what the article is saying it's lying:
On 16 August 2007, Skype became unavailable to a majority of its users. Millions of users were requesting to log-in at the same time following a routine Windows update and this flooded the peer-to-peer system. The event lasted for about two days.
On 22 December 2010, it was reported that Skype experienced an outage estimated to represent 8 million foregone calls.
and as soon as M$ gets it, they break it.
Except for the fact that Microsoft hasn't even acquired it yet? It takes far more than 16 days for an acquisition to go through.
It is impossible since the acquisition hasn't even happened yet. They haven't even gotten regulatory approval yet. If you truly think that such a huge acquisition like this happens in 16 days then you're an idiot.
Mod parent up.
For what? Being completely wrong? Skype is peer-to-peer.
Unlike other VoIP services, Skype is a peer-to-peer system rather than a client–server system, and makes use of background processing on computers running Skype software; the original name proposed – Sky peer-to-peer – reflects this.
Overpriced? Sure, he can't afford 8.5 billion, but Mickey$oft can and Skype is a global phone company running on this thing called the internets... there is obvious potential. Linkedin/facebook are overvalued for sure, just a marketing departments wet dream.
"not fact-based"? Is this some kind of newspeak? Here on slashdot we prefer the terms: "bullshit", "lies", "FUD", "misinformation" and "the editors are idiots for accepting news posts like this one".
Pretty much, yes. There's no way Microsoft tried to switch Skype to Windows servers right now. They don't even have possession of the company yet. The Hotmail switch was planned for months before the attempt was even made, no one is stupid enough to try a massive OS switch on an infrastructure network, with less than a month of planning time, before the deal is even final. MS has done dumb things in it's history, but they're no where near that stupid.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
This would be a first for Microsoft. Anyway, some alternatives to Skype.
http://www.pamil-visions.net/skype-down/221825/
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
Except the article is wrong. Maybe you should read the comments where a someone calls the author of the article wrong. And, it isn't really an article, but rather an Microsoft bashing screed.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
The only central servers are for authentication. All the communication traffic is peer-to-peer, though sometimes it will go through a third peer to overcome networking issues.
There are also supernodes (sometimes skype owned) where many users connect to send and retrieve connection data (who's on, search, etc). A simple network traffic analyzer can confirm much of this.
Or, you know, it could just be a server issue. If you look, and ask Skype users, the outage is already over.
I know, not as fun as MS-bashing, but the best bashing is based on fact.
And the fact is that Skype has run flawlessly for at least seven years (according to the article) without a hiccup and as soon as M$ gets it, they break it.
There you go, an off the cuff, fact based, M$ bash.
No, it isn't (as there have been several outages in the past). Facts are a bitch for the fools who talk about them without checking them out, don't you think? The thing that gets me the most is this thing you said:
as soon as M$ gets it, they break it.
Correlation does not mean causation. Turn in your geek card at the door if you please.
Skype uses some nodes as super-nodes, but it's otherwise mostly peer-to-peer. There are landline gateways across the planet, but they're not easily termed as servers.
The Microsoft haters in TFA need some education. Skype hasn't yet been officially acquired by Microsoft, and has had many kinds of outages. A global carrier can't help but to have them occasionally for many different reasons, but Skype wasn't out across the planet. Somebody couldn't connect and thought that Skype was down when some others couldn't logon. Hardly scientific.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
1) Skype is working fine for a lot of people except, apparently, the author.
2) Skype's web page loads fine
3) The author seems to have missed previous Skype outages
4) How the fuck does this FUD make the front page of slashdot? The article is pure libel.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Explain how to efficiently handle conference calls without a central hub, please.
Shouldn't there be a way to penalize users for submitting stupid unchecked stories without facts or references? (even in the linked article)
...Microsoft bashing screed...
Marketing 101, buddy.. could just as easily be a ploy by Microsoft for sympathy. Weirder things have happened
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
...but the mindless MS bashing really gets old.
Posting nonsense like this diminishes the credibility of /., especially when it comes to MS-related topics. If this site is to be taken seriously when it posts valid criticisms of MS -- and I agree that there are many! -- BS stories like this need to stop.
If we both have a presence on the internet, there's no reason to involve a third party for us to communicate.
If you have medium term stable IPs and your own domain (though you could argue that relying on DNS is relying on a third party) then I would agree with you.
Most client machines don't have that. Many are behind NATs and even those that aren't may not have stable IPs. P2P should be used for the actual call data where possible but servers are needed to keep track of users locations and (if you want to provide a reliable service to those behind NAT*) to provide a fallback path for call data in the event that P2P transmission is not acheivable.
What we should really be doing is a system similar to email. With email you can either rely on a third party or host it yourself if you have an appropriate connection and there is no reason the same can't be done for VOIP.
* SIP doesn't really get on very well with NAT and worse the provider I used liked to pin the blame on NAT for half-calls despite the fact they had worked fine in the past with the same NAT.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Explain how to efficiently handle conference calls without a central hub, please.
Skype uses a hybrid p2p architecture consisting nodes and supernodes. The supernodes are semi-central hubs which are regenerated when one goes offline. From what I understand anyone can chosen to be a supernode, it just depends on a lot of factors including bandwidth, jitter, ping, and processing power available. This allows conference calls to be handled efficiently. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype_protocol
* Not Intended To Be A Factual Statement
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
The evidence for it being p2p is:
The evidence against it being p2p is:
(All being things which don't happen in a p2p system, unless at least some vital part of it isn't p2p.)
Look at the evidence and decide. I'd say look at the source, but Skype doesn't give you that. That's right folks, they don't allow security auditing for -- no, not a game .. no, not a 3d driver -- a communications tool. I am struggling to think of a class of applications (which aren't specialized for certain industries, like nuclear, medical, aviation, etc -- I mean stuff used by "regular people") where that's more necessary.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
"Slashdot Crashes and Burns in Worldwide Brain Fart"? It would be about as accurate as the original headline.
Correlation != causation. End non-story.
Who wants to bet that Microsoft tried to replace the OS of the Skype servers with Windows?
Look at me, I read Slashdot's headlines, I'm well informed on anything Microsoft!
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Because the following scenario is, of course, impossible: 1. Microsoft tries to switch the current Skype servers with Microsoft servers 2. The whole thing bursts into flames 3. They put the previous Skype servers back online
possible =/= probable. And certainly this: (possible -> likely) is not a tautology.
What do you think is more likely? That Skype suffered another (yes, another) blow out that just happened to occur after its recent acquision by MS? Or that MS immediately engaged in the IT-OPs nightmare of changing the OS and infrastructure and rolled it out into production with only a mere weeks of acquiring Skype?
Seriously, Occam's razor bitches. Pls turn your geek card at the door and thanks for playing.
come on mod'ers, that was funny.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
--- And you don't need to own a computer to use it. But you do need a internet service !!! Do you know people who have a broadband connection AND a router BUT NO computer ???
If that were the case, why does the network go down?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
and they've not planted any of their executives on the board or in high places within Skype like the Nokia deal neither. Unless we see there's cause or reason for the Microsoft-ification of Skype should start before the ink is dry, we'll have to accept that it's only fun blaming Microsoft for stuff like this.
And here's another theory based on nothing, a mass exodus of geeks from Skype who don't want to work for Microsoft either left or decided key parts of an update weren't in their best interest in bothering with. ala "oops, just kidding" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBkf0nAGqi0
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Really, it must be humor http://media.thinq.co.uk/photos/skypefirked_big650.jpg : the net is down, but "good news" according to skype is that you can still download and USE skype. They don't say how I am going to be able to use it if the net is down. Are they making fun of us? Seems like.
So, exactly who does your computer contact to find the address (IP) of the person you're trying to call? Some random other person until you find the person you're looking for? Not to mention the idea of directory poisoning in a distributed environment (think poisoned torrents). While your idea is essentially a good one on paper, it lacks a "phonebook" capability (Directory Service), and security. Skype isn't badly designed from that standpoint.
Chances are this was a configuration problem, not an infrastructure problem.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I'm not in the mood to google more "skype outages" for you. Do your own homework.
I'm good with you doing it. While you're at it, do the research on M$ services in general, and how reliable they are compared to their peers in the industry. Post it as an article and link it here at slashdot. If the article gets picked up and some troll doesn't tell you to "Do your homework", you get 100%.
Or not.
Working fine from Argentina
They explained this after the last outage if you read their blog. Basically they have a defensive measure in their P2P system to prevent client machines from getting overworked and burning through bandwidth, so after a supernode hits a certain level of use, it shuts down for a period. This increases the load on other super nodes which then shut down, etc, etc until it results in a waterfall collapse of the network because there are too many clients and not enough coordinators. Since new clients can't reach a supernode (coordinator in my terms), they can not connect to the network and once enough super nodes go down, the network fractures and collapses. That's always been the problem with decentralized systems, they can only deal with so much change before they break. Some break more gracefully in to sub-networks to isolate themselves, but in the case of Skype, that doesn't really make sense. Instead they designed it to all work or all break. To some extent it will break gracefully by not allowing new connections, but some situations still will break it regardless.
AJ Henderson
No, I don't, but then I wouldn't be surprised if it's common. People have all sorts of devices that require broadband internet that aren't 'computers'. Think of Playstations, and Wiis and Roku Netflix players etc. Ooma phones are just one more device like that that uses the internet and isn't a computer.
...
Anti-microsoft garbage. Written by a 12 year-old, and sparse on facts.
Who needs facts? Everyone knows that crashing software can only be Microsoft's fault.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Yes, but we don't do perms.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
I too have Ooma but their new Telo device is prone to failure. I'm working on my third box in the seven months I'm been with them. The first device was DOA, the second one died this past Sunday and I'm still haggling with customer support to get a replacement. I was lured in with the very, very low monthly cost but if I have to waste time and effort getting a replacement box it just isn't worth it.
I was on Vonage for six years prior to switching to Ooma and never had any equipment failure. I may just port my number to Google Voice and go back to Vonage.
This jumping to conclusions "World-Wide Outage" reminds me of an infamous headline in a London paper. When thick fog caused the cancellations of ferries from the UK to France the story was headlined as "Fog in Channel : Continent Cut Off !!" It all depends on where you are looking at the problem from ... When my broadband has problems I had never seen it as a world-wide outage, although to me it is...
Clearly Microsoft used a variation on their trans-warp technology to go back into the past and cause those outages in order to lower the asking price.
Wake up, sheeple.
More Twoson than Cupertino
Because the authentication is done via a central server. Once you authenticate it's all peer-to-peer.
The problem is that Ooma is a Ponzi scheme. They need to get a continuous influx of new users buying $200 hardware to pay for all the phone calls of everyone else.
It's just not sustainable. They're either going to have to start charging users for calls or go out of business.
SIP is a protocol and works world wide. There are multiple providers if you need connectivity to POTS. For SIP to SIP, many providers provide free accounts. Google SIP for more information.
A free soft SIP phone for Windows and Ubuntu is Ekiga. They will provide a free SIP address if you want one. They also provide free confrence rooms. They can be public with anyone dialing in is joined or private where the first to dial can set a PIN and then others need to use the PIN to join. The room is released when everyone disconnects. I've had no problems using a confrence room. Most of them are empty most of the time as most people simply call user to user.
http://ekiga.org/
Their phone is not tied to their service. You can use it on Microsoft communicator if you wish using the conference protocol instead of SIP.
The truth shall set you free!
This is payback for them dropping support for the open source project "Asterisk"? Probably not, but it does give those people and businesses involved in Asterisk some sense of revenge.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, as part of the agreement, Microsoft likely told Skype that they had to drop support for Asterisk, an Open Source PBX project, so that they can favor their own project. There's word from Skype that they wanted to focus on SIP but that's silly as Asterisk has full support for SIP.
Who really knows what happened, but Microsoft does have a habit of dropping support for projects like this once they take it over. This is the same concern that everyone had when Microsoft was thinking about buying Yahoo regarding the open source Zimbra project, as it was felt that if the deal went through Microsoft would axe it too.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
If I purchased a product, and the papers were signed, I'd have no problem setting down directives, even if I hadn't taken over operations yet.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm sure fruitful discussions had been taking place either with the new consortium of Skype members, or prior when E-Bay was reading it for sale, with conditional clauses indicating Y would occur within X period of time, and that since there's really no reason for dis-approval both parties would feel confident in initiating their plans. Otherwise, it's a lot of lost time. Since it would be the Skype people doing it, what would it matter when they started?
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"lucky enough to live in North America" ... how we laughed :)
UNIX & its variants, blow by comparison, especially when it comes to a comparison of versatility in software (games is an easy prime example to come up with here vs. ANY kind of *NIX variation in fact) AND hardware compatibility for PC's &/or Servers (fact is, more hardware makers have drivers ready for Windows than ANY *NIX there is, consistently over time too, & solidly built).
There's a reason 95% or better of the worlds' PCs + Servers are on Windows OS. You're NOT the 'smartest man in the world' pal, especially vs. that statistic... that tell you anything?
LMAO - In fact, I've told YOU in particular this before: LoB must stand for "Loads of BULLSHIT".
It seems that every article that Stoobalou has written is basically a link to the article du-jour for Thinq. What's Slashdot's policy on pimping articles for sites that one might be affiliated with? Or can we at least get a disclaimer added to these postings (ie: "This is a non-paid advertisement to drive up Thinq's hits").
If you don't like it, tell it to your fellow countrymen that justify this perception.
Grammar nazis are to this community what excrements are to gold.
It's less that it doesn't 'require' a computer, it's that it works even if the computer is off, or playing a game, or running Linux, or is flakey, or is running a Windows 8 beta, or whatever.
A telephone that is an independent piece of hardware is inherently less prone to issues than one that is a computer program.
Plus, with a small amount of work, you can disconnect existing phone wiring from the phone company, or use an extra secondary line of wiring, and get it all over a house, like with POTS.
I've never had an 'Ooma', but I did have Vonage. Which had a cheaper device, but higher monthly fees.
I don't actually understand how Ooma can work at the their current rates, and $200 is really expensive for a device like that.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
First thing that occurred to me ... I was kind of surprised to find out it was a more mundane software error. SOMEONE has to be planning something nefarious for our soon-to-be-self-proclaimed-VOIP-overlord.
"Ahh! I see you're in that indeterminate Schrodinger state where - oh, uh
Dude, I don't manage any Windows servers. I run Linux and Solaris.
Fuck you.
And I'm sure that your charm is surpassed only by your good looks.
Have a nice day!
Even if we accept that Microsoft is exercising some level of control over Skype (an event I'd consider highly unlikely this early into the process, but believe what you want), there's still no way they'd be performing a major infrastructure change like a full OS changeover this quickly. I doubt you could get the code ported this quickly, let alone get it tested, a deployment plan written, everyone read into the plan, etc, etc. This isn't like replacing the OS on your home PC. We're talking hundreds or thousands of servers, running custom code, deployed internationally. If Microsoft decides to switch them over to Windows (and they may), it won't be a rush job done a few weeks after the announcement of intent to purchase. It'll happen after months of work and planning, and after the sale is final.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
There seems to be maybe something to this story. My Skype auto-chashed when my laptop running Knoppix started up this morning. Skype auto-crashed again when I tried to manually start it. It's seems to be OK now
I looked into Ooma when I was on Vonage. The device they give you is a total piece of shit that you have no access to AND it must be placed before your router so it runs NAT to your router. Double NAT causes problems for some protocols I use. I went with Voipo and they gave me a Grandstream HT502 and I have full admin access to the device. The service isn't free, but it is less than half what Vonage charges and it is a real service with fax support. Ooma also charges MORE than Voipo for services like Name Caller ID. Ooma is a scam. I swear I am not a shill, but I do use Hostgator, which is in bed with Voipo.
Every mobile phone knows a "conference call", where the phone is connected to two other phones at the same time and all three are talking to each other. This can be expanded at both ends to add more phones to the same conference.
Not just dropping support, but ruining the product. I started not liking MS when they bough FoxPro. AFAIK it may still be on the market, but version 8 was completely unusable.
I started liking them even less when I installed XP and half of my old programs would no linger run.
If I were a Skype user, MS buying them out would make me NOT a Skype user.
Today I only interact with MS at work; no MS products in my house. I'm looking forward to retirement, when I won't have to deal with MS at all.
Free Martian Whores!
Holy crap, who's moderating today? I only saw one comment with a mod greater than 1, and most of the comments here are at -1, even from logged in users with interesting or factual comments. Meanwhile, a "fuck you" results in no downmod at all.
Mod points are like cops -- they're never there when you need them.
Free Martian Whores!
I've got 8 left, but I decided I'd rather just comment than get involved in this trainwreck.
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
Correlation doesn't imply causation, but where there's correlation you can't automaticall rule out causation without further study. I'd be willing to bet that MS will screw up Skype considering their history.
Free Martian Whores!
Probably just an issue at the top of the peermid.
Plus, with a small amount of work, you can disconnect existing phone wiring from the phone company, or use an extra secondary line of wiring, and get it all over a house, like with POTS.
You can do the same with a "magic-jack". All you need is an old computer, or a cheap netbook, or one of those mini "bare bones" computers, and you're good to go.
I thought this at first too, but they do have other sources of revenue besides selling devices. They offer 'fancy' extras for a fee. Also I believe their operating costs are almost zero.
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The instructions do recommend placing the Ooma before your router so that it can prioritize voice traffic over other traffic to ensure good quality, but I have DSL, and did not follow the instructions. I just connected it like any other device so that Ooma Phone traffic is not prioritized above other traffic. No double NAT for me. I have had no voice quality problems so far after more than a year so I saw no reason to change the way I hooked it up.
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It affected my company for a short time today from midday to around 14:00 when we became aware of the fix.
Not everyone was affected but we found it rather odd how this "shared.xml" file would become corrupted and crash Skype just because it was connected to the Internet - there's probably a serious bug waiting to be exploited by malware here.
As a further note, not all people use Skype for phone calls - we use it for secure IM between office workers.
Yes, you need the DNS server for that.
Rethinking email
There, fixed it for you. The reason people use decentralized systems is because they scale. That failure is proof that Skype is centralized. It is not centralized at Skype's server, but at the super nodes.
Rethinking email
Posting to undo moderation.
This is true
It is also true that this computer must be as reliable as you would like your phone line to be while running Windows. This is not unheard of, but it is not a risk I was willing to take, hence, I, like the poster who started this branch, chose Ooma.
There is also the TCO matter. Running a general-purpose computer 24/7 will require more energy than the Ooma device.
Also, the "bare bones" computer will cost about the same as, if not more than, the Ooma device.
No, Magic jack is not that good of a choice, at least not for some of us.
www.wavefront-av.com
Here in the US, Cellphones are free since they come with your plan, I hear in Europe the phones cost a mint, but the monthly fees are lower. I have no idea what the device ought to cost ( prolly cost them $1.95 in parts ).
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Don't know why you are having issues. I'm 15 months into my service with Ooma with no major problems.
www.wavefront-av.com
Not my problem. The incremental cost of the device paid for itself in six months vs. the Verizon land line it replaced. Any service I get past that is gravy. If they shut down tomorrow, I'd be a little agitated over the inconvenience, to be sure, but I would have no question that I got my money's worth.
www.wavefront-av.com
I actually am using the device as my router. Just put a switch on the inside port and you're good to go. It is serving up IP addresses and NATting just fine for my network of 9 physical devices plus the occasional VM that gets stood up.
www.wavefront-av.com
Here in the US, Cellphones are free since they come with your plan, I hear in Europe the phones cost a mint, but the monthly fees are lower. I have no idea what the device ought to cost ( prolly cost them $1.95 in parts ).
If you have a contract, at least in the UK most phones are free, top of the line smartphones are not but only require a nomial fee. If you are on pay'as'you'go though then its a different matter.
No, because the supernodes can be anywhere and can not be centrally managed, it is P2P. Think of it like a bit torrent network with too many leachers and not enough seeders. Are you going to claim that torrents are not P2P because they require people to run seeds? Any P2P system needs some type of command and control or it can not function. When a new node joins the network, it must be able to discover the rest of the network. Any user could be a supernode if they wanted to be, Skype just allows you to behave as a leach in a lite mode where you will never be a supernode. Perhaps you should learn what P2P is and how it actually operates before you incorrectly critique an industry professional trying to give you a simplified explanation. Skype is just about as P2P as it gets. P2P systems are more prone to failure than centralized if they are designed to require full network awareness since problems spread with no central means to fix it. (The last time it went down, the only way to get it back up was running a bunch of modified supernodes that would break the normal supernode rules so as to get other users back up and running and in supernode mode without getting overloaded.) A supernode is simply a client that has good awareness of the network by having been around long enough to have an up to date view of the topolology that hasn't already been over utilized by the configuration built in to the local Skype client.
AJ Henderson
Now if they could figure out how to let me take my phone anywhere, i.e. a cell phone, and keep the same service, features, and prices, we could finally have a cell phone carrier in the U.S. worth having.
Yes, you need the DNS server for that.
A DNS server could do the job only by running nonstandard software, therefore a standard DNS server will not do. If both clients are behind NAT (usual case these days) then a globally reachable server (not behind NAT) running nonstandard software must establish the peer to peer connection via hole punching. That is far from the end of the story, because hole punching relies on NAT router behavior that is not governed by any standard. If hole punching fails then the global server would have to relay the traffic itself, again running nonstandard application-specific software.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Cell phones are nice, but they can be expensive. And if you are required to keep one for work, then having 2 in your pocket is annoying. Ooma is a way to have your OWN phone number forever for minimal money.
If the cell phone in question is Android - and you can get a cheap Chinese one for less than $150 - then Google Voice will give you the same integrated experience (you can tell the phone to use it for all calls), and you'll also have your own phone number that you can keep.
You mean this guy? He doesn't know what that thing is doing anyway.
It is also true that this computer must be as reliable as you would like your phone line to be while running Windows. This is not unheard of, but it is not a risk I was willing to take...
Be honest: you're just trolling with that comment.
There is also the TCO matter. Running a general-purpose computer 24/7 will require more energy than the Ooma device.
Quite true. It only makes sense if you've already got some kind of device running 24/7, as I do. I don't personally use the "Magic Jack" - I have a file/media server running Solaris which also acts as my router and VOIP gateway. But I did set it up for a friend, who has a media server running Windows Home Server. If you already have a device which runs 24/7 - or close to it - then the upfront cost for installing such a solution is far lower than the "Ooma".
Also, it's worth mentioning that there are plenty of VOIP routers on the market which cost less than the Ooma, conserve less power when you consider that they serve two functions, and are far more configurable.
Correlation doesn't imply causation, but where there's correlation you can't automaticall rule out causation without further study. I'd be willing to bet that MS will screw up Skype considering their history.
Microsoft probably shouldn't be allowed to buy other companies for that reason alone. Although, Hotmail is still around and is one of the biggest Webmail services in the world outside of the U.S.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
If Microsoft decides to switch them over to Windows (and they may), it won't be a rush job done a few weeks after the announcement of intent to purchase. It'll happen after months of work and planning, and after the sale is final.
Very true ... this is a substantial project and it won't go over well if they screw it up. This isn't just about people talking to their grandmothers in another country, business use of Skype is enormous and growing (another reason I'd like Microsoft to stay the hell out of it.) Matter of fact, Skype has shown just exactly how well VoIP can work on a massive scale, and if Microsoft fumbles the ball (which is also likely) it will leave room for a competitor to move in and take over. Google Voice, maybe. The tough part for such a service is all the deals with local telcos that Skype worked out for POTS access around the world, but it can obviously be done.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I have an Ooma phone.
I bought a standalone cordless Skype phone. Supports both regular POTS calls and has Skype firmware in it. Works great.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Cell phones are nice, but they can be expensive. And if you are required to keep one for work, then having 2 in your pocket is annoying. Ooma is a way to have your OWN phone number forever for minimal money.
If the cell phone in question is Android - and you can get a cheap Chinese one for less than $150 - then Google Voice will give you the same integrated experience (you can tell the phone to use it for all calls), and you'll also have your own phone number that you can keep.
True, and you can also run something like CSipSimple and use pretty much any SIP provider. I use mine through pbxes.org and it works just fine (I configured it to use Google Voice for my outgoing trunk line.)
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Despite having "excellent" karma, I haven't been given mod points in over a couple of years. So its not me...
In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
Are you serious? If it's MS they've been planning this for months. They probably have written a bunch of code for the "SDK" (read: reverse engineered). Don't think companies can't move fast, if they were willing to spend $X then they're willing to spend $X + $Y where Y is preparation.
This is a very bad thing for consumers.While Skype isn't the monopoly in the desktop VOIP space that it used to be. This means Microsoft controls a growing percentage of phone calls and Google controls a growing percentage of information and phone architecture.
It's a war over a technology (SIP VOIP) 20 years old. I'm not sure that Skype or any of the remaining VOIP providers have the guts to stand up to Microsoft and the ethics to turn down bribes, especially from governments. Embrace, extend (which is the scary part, extinguish there's no reason Skype couldn't achieve total dominance in the U.S. they now have unlimited marketing money.
SIP of course ties into the phone lines and puts the user in control. I recommend some products on my website.
For a freebie if you're thinking of replacing Skype try Nimbuzz it has all the functionality of Skype, better pricing and it's based in the Netherlands, it's also a multiclient IM and comes for all the phone platforms (except probably linux.). Nimbuzz is also better because they were allowing Skype users in their network till Skype pulled the plug. I just get the feeling they want to get along with other providers and Skype, well, doesn't.
I don't know about that, I would think you'd want your number available from a bunch of physical phones.
Also for traveling overseas wi-fi is better than Ethernet in most places.
I figured if people were going to pay a bit for hardware it should be one with a future, an Android phone. Can be picked up for about $180 used and updated with newest rom (Cyanogen has > 500,000 users). You want something flexible if your phone # is going to be attached to it, and probably call forwarding if you're going to be outside Internet and into cell territory (Sigh, Wi-Max would make them the same, so could 802.11n/i). Anyway since those wireless techs aren't available on any quality devices (Nexus S [no keyboard] iPhone 4 which has a host of killer issues) you'll have to get two generations of it, having a cellphone that always has free calling is nicer long term.
I do this, if you're in Canada. Service called pay once phone forever. Nothing fancy just retail, jailbreaking, unlocking and rooting. I have also found some very cheap 4G data services.
I'd like to do research and produce a U.S. phone, info@phaistoscommunications.com if you want details and recommendations.
He had noble intentions. He posts for a certain breed of slashdotters...the junkies...the ones that demand an update, a new item every 20 minutes, no matter how trivial or mundane, no matter if the connection to science or technology is only a thin line...
He posts for us...US! I tell you. So leave him alone, and let him stand proud, for what he has done is all for the greater good. So that we can move on, with the rest of our lives, our needs having been met. Until we re-unite with our beloved slashdot, in ...about 19:20, give or take.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
I discovered that if you post prolifically you don't get mod points. I went without mod points for years as well, when they changed the interface I couldn't post from work (IE6) and I had mod points almost every day for a while.
I discovered a workaround to not being able to post in IE6 so it's been a week or two since I've had mod points.
Free Martian Whores!
Only if it's Microsoft lying about other people. If it's other people lying about Microsoft, it's "not fact based".
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
The Skype is falling! The Skype is falling!
A bit torrent network can work quite well with any number of seeders bigger than (and including) one, with any number of leachers. In fact, depending on the data available to the leachers, it can work with no seeder at all. That is because the bit torrent protocol doesn't concentrate any kind of resource on any node.
Now, compare that to the Skype network. On that you need a minimum number of super nodes for each end node. Go below that minimum rate and the entire network fails. That happens because the connections are concentrated (that means, centralized) on those super nodes.
Rethinking email
Sorry, I screwed up my bit torrent terminology by some definitions. Yes, you could have no seeds (full file), but if you don't have people sharing fragments and truly leaching by only grabbing fragments, then bit torrent would not work either. I would agree with your assessment of clients that access supernodes and don't act as super nodes, they are light clients and not behaving in a P2P manner, but those super nodes are behaving in a P2P manner and the network will build itself out again if the supernodes don't shutdown (and actually the network would stay minimally available if the supernodes didn't have limits either). This is why the network rebuild approach had been to deploy a bunch of altered supernodes that don't have the resource consumptions caps in place.
You can draw fault at the light clients or the resource consumption management putting faults in to the system, but it is still a P2P system.
AJ Henderson
No, it is not a pure P2P system. When it goes through a super node it is not P2P at all.
Rethinking email
The super nodes are themselves P2P. Yes, it is possible for someone to connect and leach off the P2P network by refusing to be a supernode (bit torrent equivalent would be refusing to share any fragments or any locations of those fragments), however any client could also behave as a true P2P node participating in a distributed network topology. I'm really not sure how better to describe it as I do not think you have a solid understanding of what a "supernode" really is in Skype's network or how it is the network actually operates, but the fact is the network is mesh growing and any client can, if they want to, participate in the network, it just isn't mandatory as part of the Skype protocol and normally will limit itself. This limitation causes the ability of the network to collapse, but it does not make it not P2P, it simply makes it a P2P protocol that is susceptible to being overloaded. You can debate the merits or demerits of the protocol design all you want, but it is irrefutably a P2P network in every sense of the term. At best you can only argue that not all clients participate in the P2P network. You could argue that non-participatory clients are accessing a P2P backbone as centralized clients, but that argument really fails when any of those nodes could be tapped to be supernodes (baring specific technical measures on their local network to prevent the function) This can be seen by the fact the only way to actually alter the network is to deploy new client software so that client nodes will update their behavior.
AJ Henderson