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Martin Jetpack Climbs 5000 Feet Above Sea Level

rh2600 writes "For years the Martin Jetpack has stayed just a few feet off the ground, invoking frequent suspicion about its true abilities. Well, today that all changed [video] with the first climb test in New Zealand (with weighted crash-test dummy) reaching over 5,000 feet above sea level. The emergency parachute test was also a success. Kiwis can indeed fly."

130 of 178 comments (clear)

  1. FINALLY!! by jmd_akbar · · Score: 2

    Now I can FLY!!!


    Where was this thing when you needed it the most???

    --
    Nothing here... So... SHOOO!!!
    1. Re:FINALLY!! by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Now I can FLY!!!

      Yeah, but did he solve the icing problems?

    2. Re:FINALLY!! by yog · · Score: 2

      I'm waiting for one of these babies to get me 6 miles to work. Man, would it be nice to fly right over the cars which are all stuck at a light, and buzz a cop car at 70 mph! It would make going to work a joy instead of the tedious trudge to cube farm hell that it is.

      Ever since reading Heinlein's The Puppet Masters, I have yearned for a sky car to go hundreds of miles in a few minutes. Of course, I haven't yearned for the accompanying alien parasitic slugs, but like with everything else in life, there's a give and take.

      --
      it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
    3. Re:FINALLY!! by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      Yes. If you get up high enough that icing might be a problem, you pass out yourself from lack of oxygen.

    4. Re:FINALLY!! by wjsteele · · Score: 1

      Wish I could mod you up... that was funny! (However, it doesn't look like anyone else caught it!)

      Bill

      --
      It's my Sig and you can't have it. Mine! All Mine!
    5. Re:FINALLY!! by VolciMaster · · Score: 1

      except, of course, wagnerrp half an hour before you :)

    6. Re:FINALLY!! by vgerclover · · Score: 1

      I don't know, It doesn't seem to be the bright colored production version. Looking closely, it seems like something a certain shower curtain manufacturer would build.

    7. Re:FINALLY!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This seems as good a place as any to link to the Martin Jetpack site and the technical specs.

      Designed to conform to FAA Part 103 ultralight regulations (max 5gal fuel, 63mph) but could easily do more
      Empty Wt. 250lbs + safety equipment
      Useful load: 280+ lbs
      Gross Wt. 535+ lbs.
      600+ lbs. thrust
      10 US gal/hr ; 30 min flight max, 31 mile range (at FAA speed limit)
      V4 2L 2-stroke - 200hp, 132lbs, 180+ ft.-lbs.torque 3500-6000rpm
      Airframe, fans- mostly carbon/epoxy with some aramid over honeycomb and foam cores, some aluminum fittings and special resins - ~75lbs.
      includes roll cage and , high design safety factors, e.g. 5-10 for the fans.
      Ballistic parachute,
      minimal "avoidance curve" - attempts to ensure accident would be survivable at any altitude

      For moderate weight pilots (less than 180lbs.) willing to dispense with FAA part 103 compliance, the craft could carry up to 15 gal. / 90 min.
      Target price: $100,000

    8. Re:FINALLY!! by zanian · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but did he solve the icing problems?

      No, in fact Icarus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus [wikipedia.org]) proves the opposite problem.

    9. Re:FINALLY!! by AftanGustur · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but did he solve the icing problems?

      As long as he doesn't try to do Rio - Paris, he should be OK.

      --
      echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
    10. Re:FINALLY!! by dotgain · · Score: 1

      Depending on weather conditions, carburettor icing can be a present danger at only 2000 ft AMSL. It is affected by your rate of descent, engine load and relative humidity.

    11. Re:FINALLY!! by dotgain · · Score: 1

      Okay, I still don't know how, but I believe I've just set myself up the whoosh.

    12. Re:FINALLY!! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      6.2 mpg? Seems that the future is less efficient than the present.

      Not that I wouldn't want one...

      And if one were to dispense with the part 103 compliance, would they need a helicopter or fixed-wing license?

    13. Re:FINALLY!! by SiChemist · · Score: 1

      Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave! With a box of scraps!

  2. Endurance by rossdee · · Score: 1

    So it can go up to 5000 ft if it uses up all its fuel getting there, and then parachutes back down? Still not totally practical.
    Also they used a crash test dummy? Couldn't they find a darwin award volunterr?

    1. Re:Endurance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Earlier in the program [2:03] Mr. Martin refers to 'flying around for up to 30 minutes'. and at [7:17] in the video there's a call of 800 ft/min climb rate. Methinks you can get a lot better than just up to 3500 ft AGL.

      BTW - Aviation authorites have little or no sense of humour. Testing equipment with live (perhaps deserving) volunteers without testing the safety systems will get you shut down, in a very official and unpleasant manner.

    2. Re:Endurance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not quite. That was an test of the new parachute system that is designed for catastrophic situations, something any sane test pilot is going to want before climbing on board and soaring more than a couple feet off the ground. Not sure they discussed flight duration, but soaring to 3000 feet and back to the ground under it's own power is certainly a minimum flight time.

    3. Re:Endurance by krelvin · · Score: 1

      Did you bother to listen to the video? In it, how long it can fly, PURPOSE of the test, use of the parachute and the crash test dummy.... all explained.

    4. Re:Endurance by jv+lee · · Score: 1

      Practicality isn't necessary at this point in development. Proof of concept has been demonstrated, obviously greater efficiency will need to follow.

    5. Re:Endurance by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 1

      dunno, last time i was 110 feet of the ground, it didn't look NEAR that high.

      --
      I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
    6. Re:Endurance by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      It climbs at 800 ft per minute (according to the vid) which means 6 minutes to 5000 feet. It carries 45 minutes' worth of fuel (also from the vid). Not sure if you will get an 800 ft/min climb with a full tank though. Also I'm not sure you'd be able to get permission to go to 5000 feet without a private pilot's license.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    7. Re:Endurance by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      I missed the 800fpm bit, but according to their site, the design is an part103-compliant ultralight which requires no license (though Martin will require a training program when they start selling them), Fuel capacity is 5gal (by FAA requirement) / 30min / ~30mi range.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    8. Re:Endurance by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Not likely, rate of climb drops a lot as altitude goes up. I am not sure that these engines are turbocharged but if not then the power really starts to drop as you go up as the air gets less dense. But that depends on what you mean by a lot. If you mean 6000 ft above sea level then maybe If you mean 10k I just don't think so. Oh AGL? That is all about safety not performance, above sea level is what really matters from a performance issue.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    9. Re:Endurance by bluemonq · · Score: 1

      I think that's what the limitations "are", but they'll look the other way if you figure out how to get more fuel into the thing.

    10. Re:Endurance by luther349 · · Score: 1

      not relly the jetpack is probly light enough to fall under the deregluated ultra light aircraft.

    11. Re:Endurance by edxwelch · · Score: 1

      Really it's only safe if you're high enough. Between 40 ft and 400 ft there's not enough time for the parachute to deploy, yet it's high enough for you to be seriously injured.

    12. Re:Endurance by Isaac+Remuant · · Score: 1

      dude... You not only missed the joke but missed the math.

      5000 ft - 4990 ft = 10 ft

      10 ft ~= 3 mts

      You guys made me laugh though, so it's all good ;)

      --
      "Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
    13. Re:Endurance by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 1

      I had only recently awakened, and my brain's math module had obviously not booted yet. well played.

      --
      I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
  3. Re:To hear the Kiwi version of events. . . by jmd_akbar · · Score: 1

    Hedgerow? You sure about that?

    I was under the impression that he flew straight into those pines in front of his home.. ;)

    --
    Nothing here... So... SHOOO!!!
  4. Shorter Video by Garrynz · · Score: 2
  5. Not really a jetpack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A jetpack should be no bigger than a hiker's backpack. This thing is more like a small aircraft.

    1. Re:Not really a jetpack by geogob · · Score: 2

      I think letting pseudo-sci-fi action flicks to set technology and engineering guidelines is neither sane nor practical.

    2. Re:Not really a jetpack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Look at your smart-phone. Did it *start* that size?

    3. Re:Not really a jetpack by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      Baby steps.

      They miniaturized jet engines enough to do this and it seems pretty damn good now. Maybe if you can get an engineering degree in fluid dynamics and one in materials science you can develop a continuous detonation wave engine that would be smaller.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    4. Re:Not really a jetpack by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      The word itself seems to have a well-defined meaning akin to "backpack, but one that makes me fly". It almost seems to me this thing should have another name, unless they're planning on making it much smaller and just can't or haven't quite yet.

    5. Re:Not really a jetpack by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Apples and oranges. When portable phones were invented, the electronics in them were nowhere near their theoretical size limits. They had room to both shrink and grow in performance.

      Jetpacks like this are already very near their theoretical limits just to fly at all. There's no magical chemical fuel waiting in the wings. (Excuse the pun.) There's no magical ducted fan or propeller design that will dramatically increase performance. There's no magical material that will dramatically decrease the weight. Etc... etc...

      Hmm... Just watched the full video, and they've palmed a card. It flew to 5000ft *above sea level* - but it took off somewhere above sea level, so the total altitude gained was somewhat less.

      Another interesting thing is that in the video, they mention that the unit weighed "250 lbs" (presumably at liftoff) - which is the weight of the *empty* pack. I.E. either he made a mistake, or they're obscuring the weight of the crash test dummy.

    6. Re:Not really a jetpack by wjsteele · · Score: 1

      There's no magical chemical fuel waiting in the wings. (Excuse the pun.) There's no magical ducted fan or propeller design that will dramatically increase performance. There's no magical material that will dramatically decrease the weight. Etc... etc...

      I'm curious... how do you know there isn't?

      There are a lot of discoveries that have already been made that do exactly what you said. The ducted fan design can be improved... GE is working on several designs that do exactly that. There are materials that do dramatically decrease weight... Carbon Fiber is an example... and the science behind those materials (and others) is continuing on. Don't underestimate the power of the imagination to think things up. If someone sees a problem, an engineer somewhere is working on a solution to it.

      Bill

      --
      It's my Sig and you can't have it. Mine! All Mine!
    7. Re:Not really a jetpack by w_dragon · · Score: 1

      In the end you still need a certain amount of energy to lift a person. No matter how light the equipment is lifting a few hundred pounds in a controlled manner takes a lot of energy, and there are theoretical limits as to how much chemical energy a fuel can hold. If we can get a nuclear or antimatter system down to that size then maybe, but I don't think I'll volunteer to be the one to fly around with that on my back.

    8. Re:Not really a jetpack by mijelh · · Score: 1

      Look at a 747. Did it *start* at that size? Oh yeah, wait, it did

      No it didn't, it started as the small Wright aircraft. next question?

    9. Re:Not really a jetpack by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Nuclear.

    10. Re:Not really a jetpack by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      There are three factors you have to consider when building something like this: thrust to weight, thrust to power, and jet temperature. Your thrust to weight needs to be above unity, for obvious reasons. The most efficient way to achieve that thrust is a very large fan, at a very low flow velocity. As you try to shrink the unit, your fan becomes smaller, you need higher and higher flow velocity to achieve the same thrust. As you trade size for power, you go from reciprocating ducted fan, to high bypass turbofan, to low bypass turbofan, to turbojet. Each step means reduced efficiency and significantly higher exit temperature.

      What you ask is certainly do-able with a turbojet, however your exhaust would start brush fires, melt asphalt, burn off your legs, and depending on how long you stayed near the ground, suffocate you and eventually itself. Now before you say 'but but but... current jetpacks are that small', that's because current jetpacks are all cold gas rockets. They have a tank of hydrogen peroxide and a catalyst. The catalyst causes rapid disassociation, and the resultant jet is a mixture of water vapor and oxygen. There is no combustion to generate heat, and as a result, they are ridiculously inefficient, which is why you get operation times of under a minute.

    11. Re:Not really a jetpack by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      Strap a couple of those miniature jet engines (you'll probably need four for your weight, their weight, and a decent amount of fuel) to your back side, and if you don't burn your legs off, you'll at least start a brush fire. As simple as you make the concept out to be, the reason no one has ever bothered to do that is because no one has figured out a way to resolve the problem of exhaust temperature.

      Meanwhile a large ducted fan means significantly lesser power requirement, and similarly, significantly less waste heat you have to deal with.

    12. Re:Not really a jetpack by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      It straps onto your back, and it achieves all its lift using a jet. Sounds like a jetpack to me.

    13. Re:Not really a jetpack by slick7 · · Score: 1

      I think letting pseudo-sci-fi action flicks to set technology and engineering guidelines is neither sane nor practical.

      This is a jet pack. It was developed by Bell Helicopters in the late 60's.Since there seems to be little information on the power plant it's difficult to critique the system. This design was prior to the T-400 jet engine that is used on the Blackhawk helicopter. I believe the T-400 would be a better power plant.

      --
      The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
    14. Re:Not really a jetpack by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1
    15. Re:Not really a jetpack by Savantissimo · · Score: 2

      The jetpack produces ~600 lbs. thrust at 10 gph = 61lbs/hr.. Empty weight is 250lbs, max takeoff weight is about 535lbs.. A 180lb pilot could carry over 15gal of fuel, sufficient for 90 minutes of flight. The excess thrust over takeoff weight ensures a rapid climb and a decent forward velocity.

      The test did not start at high altitude, but on the Christchurch plain in South Island, NZ which slopes gently from 30ft to 1900ft over about 20 to 35 miles. The test takeoff was likely at less than 1000ft, and the craft clearly achieved a substantial height above the ground since it nearly disappeared from view.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    16. Re:Not really a jetpack by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      And we're nowhere near that limit. Using Frink:
      535lbs gravity 5000ft -> gal gasoline = 0.0259...
      Even assuming 25% efficiency, it's still about 1/10 of a US gallon of gas. (the 200hp Martin engine burns 10gal/hr, so it could be as much as 38% efficient, but the transmission, fans and est.90% throttle pull that figure down.) The actual gas burned, though, to get to 5000 ft was likely about an order of magnitude greater. (~4000ft/800fpm=5min; 10gph*1/12hr=5/6gal)

      The energy mostly goes not to lifting the craft from one height to another but rather to accelerating air simply to maintain altitude.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    17. Re:Not really a jetpack by bluemonq · · Score: 1

      Actually, if there were improvements in metallurgy and structural design, it could theoretically lighten the whole assembly. Lighter craft means less fuel required/less power required to carry peopple/smaller engine.

    18. Re:Not really a jetpack by Velex · · Score: 1

      Holy shit. I never realized I was supposed to be so completely offended by the phrase "no pun intended."

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    19. Re:Not really a jetpack by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      it could be as much as 38% efficient

      Two stroke engines don't run anything close to that efficiency, and the more highly stressed they are, the more unburned oil you mix into the fuel for lubrication.

    20. Re:Not really a jetpack by w0mprat · · Score: 1

      A jetpack should be no bigger than a hiker's backpack and spit flame. This thing is more like a small aircraft.

      There fixed that for you.

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    21. Re:Not really a jetpack by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Some irate blogger doesn't get to set etiquette. "No pun intended" is often to indicate that the person is being more serious than an accidental pun would tend to indicate. It isn't saying "look I'm so smart I have to point out when my puns are just a by-product of my smartness and not because of deliberate punnyness." It's saying "I think I'm cute" (when the pun is intended and the "no pun intended" is stated as a cutsey banter thing) or trying to indicate that they are serious when a pun could actually undermine that seriousness. I can agree that the former is unneeded and could be worthy of some irrational blogger's rants. However, the latter is a very valid use of the phrase.

    22. Re:Not really a jetpack by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      Actually they make gas turbine engines for (expensive) RC aircraft that put out between 50-100 lbs of thrust, or you could build your own out of a high end automotive turbocharger. The issue is that you're right back to the big ducted fan, trading a largish two-cycle reciprocating engine for a smaller turbine. The OP was talking about a jetpack of similar size to a hikers pack, which would mean you would be using those RC turbines directly.

    23. Re:Not really a jetpack by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      The energy mostly goes not to lifting the craft from one height to another but rather to accelerating air simply to maintain altitude.

      Right, afaict jetpack implies small nozzles which implies high exhaust velocities which implies most of the energy ends up accelerating air downwards rather than accelerating the craft upwards (momentum is proportional to MV while kenetic energy is proportional to MV^2).

      --
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    24. Re:Not really a jetpack by milamber3 · · Score: 2

      He clearly said in the video that it was at 3500 feet which was 5000 feet above sea level. So they started around 1500 feet above sea level. I wouldn't knock the guy for ONLY flying up 3500 feet.

    25. Re:Not really a jetpack by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      I'm curious... how do you know there isn't?

      Because I actually pay attention to and have a working understanding of engineering, physics, and chemistry.
       

      There are a lot of discoveries that have already been made that do exactly what you said. The ducted fan design can be improved... GE is working on several designs that do exactly that. There are materials that do dramatically decrease weight... Carbon Fiber is an example...

      They key words of course being "have already been made". Yeah, GE may be working on improved ducted fans, but that's hoping for the 1-2% improvement that will be huge for commercial aircraft, but nearly meaningless for this jet pack. Etc... etc...
       

      Don't underestimate the power of the imagination to think things up. If someone sees a problem, an engineer somewhere is working on a solution to it.

      Don't confuse the power of imagination with the reality of engineering either.

    26. Re:Not really a jetpack by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Same AC here. I got that bass ackwards didn't I. If 5 gallons gives you 45 minutes of engine time then the engine is burning 6.67 gallons per hour.

    27. Re:Not really a jetpack by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      There are real physical limitations however. Even with perfect engines. Since lift is a reaction force we can calculate some BOTE figures. A lifting disk area of about 1m2 needs a downdraft velocity of 31 m/s for 1000N of thrust assuming a air density of 1kg/m3. That is 113km/h blast. The power required is 15.8kW (21hp) assuming a perfect engine to air coupling. This seems pretty reasonable. A pair of ducted fans need a diameter of about 80cm for a total disk area of 1 meter. Perhaps they can get a bit smaller!

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    28. Re:Not really a jetpack by rednip · · Score: 1

      The Bell Rocket Belt used hydrogen peroxide as it's fuel for the 'flight', which typically lasted about 20 seconds, a helicopter engine is very much a different beast altogether. Its best known use was in a James Bond movie 'Thunderball' and as a halftime act for at 60's Superbowl. The fuel was so volatile that each launch took special preparation. Not that long ago there was still a stunt man who had built one which had a limit of 30 seconds, but it's easy to see why it would never be practical for anything but a stunt show.

      This could get a certain amount of use, if only as a resort novelty. Perhaps a few Wall Street types might hop in from Jersey on a nice day, but most of us will likely never see the flight of one in person. I'd like to see this technology advance, but all things in aviation have specularly reported accidents, the results of which either propel safety advances (like jet aircraft) or ended commercial use (like the Hindenburg, or SST).

      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    29. Re:Not really a jetpack by SpacerOne · · Score: 1

      A jetpack should be no bigger than a hiker's backpack. This thing is more like a small aircraft.

      I bet that the dummy was a disguised fuel tank, as was everytjhing else.

    30. Re:Not really a jetpack by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      According to the Martin Jetpack website, 5 gal gives 30 minutes, which is 10 gal./hr. I'm not sure where the 45 minutes came from - a larger tank on the test craft or just an optimistic early estimate would be my guess, but it's possible that the efficiency was better than they hoped and they just haven't updated their site.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    31. Re:Not really a jetpack by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Yes, you are right. It says 10 gal/hr right there on their website. I doubt you'd want to fly it until the fuel exhausted though. Repacking the parachute is a pain.

  6. Re:Who keeps the Metric System down? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    I support metric but it's currently the standard world wide in aviation to measure altitude in feet.

  7. All the way from Darwin? by definate · · Score: 4, Funny

    Darwin is pretty far away from Christchurch. I guess they could get someone from there to volunteer, but I doubt anyone who has won some prestigious award would be into it.

    Hell, Google Maps can't even figure out how to get there!

    --
    This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    1. Re:All the way from Darwin? by jcwayne · · Score: 1

      Hell, Google Maps can't even figure out how to get there!

      Yet some how it can figure out how to get from Tokyo to LA.

      --
      Failure to follow this advice may result in non-deterministic behavior.
    2. Re:All the way from Darwin? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      There's a wee bit of water in the way, I think.

    3. Re:All the way from Darwin? by Cimexus · · Score: 1

      It'll go even further than Tokyo using that kayak route if you let it. For instance, try New York to Sydney, Australia :)

  8. They should add a wing by hackertourist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The pack is big and bulky enough that the addition of a small wing won't make much of a difference. With a wing, you can transition from vertical takeoff using thrust only, to horizontal wing-borne flight which uses much less power (and/or achieves a much higher speed).

    1. Re:They should add a wing by jcwayne · · Score: 2

      My thoughts exactly. Even helicopters and VTOL airplanes spend as little time as possible hovering or in straight vertical motion, both because of how fast it burns fuel and because most (all?) aircraft are more stable when moving horizontally.

      Having a wing capable of providing enough lift for an unpowered decent and landing would also make the parachute the last resort that it should be. With the current configuration, the only solution for running out of fuel in flight is deploying the chute. While the landing may be survivable it looked likely to break a few bones.

      --
      Failure to follow this advice may result in non-deterministic behavior.
    2. Re:They should add a wing by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I think it should have a folding ultralight wing. That is hard to do but with the small size it should be doable. Then it won't be contributing so much drag during non-wing-based flight. Plus you could ditch it if you had to.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:They should add a wing by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I agree. I guess the problem is you'd end up making a VTOL microlight.

      Actually that's something that sounds useful but if you want a rocket pack, a microlight isn't the same.

    4. Re:They should add a wing by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      The pack is big and bulky enough that the addition of a small wing won't make much of a difference.

      You're right - a small wing won't make difference, so it's stupid to add one. To get a weight/sq ft ratio low enough for any kind of performance is going to require a fairly large wing. The Rocket Man requires an eight foot wing just to *glide* - and he and his pack are almost certainly lighter (or very close to) the dry weight of just the [Martin] jet pack all by itself.

    5. Re:They should add a wing by wjsteele · · Score: 1

      ...big and bulky enough that the addition of a small wing won't make much of a difference...

      Actually, that's not true. They are designing it to fit within the US Ultralight category. By adding a wing, you're adding weight, however he is only allowed 254 lbs. The craft is already at 250 lbs. As for speed... again, he is limited to 60mph due to the same restrictions... which he can easily achieve without the addition of a secondary lift device.

      Bill

      --
      It's my Sig and you can't have it. Mine! All Mine!
    6. Re:They should add a wing by mijelh · · Score: 1

      And bluetooth, everything is better with bluetooth.

    7. Re:They should add a wing by hey! · · Score: 1

      If you're considering a wing, why not an autogyrating rotor?

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    8. Re:They should add a wing by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Helicopters don't hover because that's the least efficient pattern possible. Traveling forward at a reasonably slow speed will get the helicopter out if its own downwash and into "clean" air and greatly improve performance. However, when you have the blades enclosed and with a tube above and below the blades, then the "clean" air is closer to the same whether one is in a pure hover or traveling slowly forward.

      Now, if they had small wings (a la Buzz Lightyear) that could provide some lift, then the fuel necessary to cruise should be greatly reduced. However, the complexity to the system and for the training and demands of the pilot may increase such that the economy would not be worth it (especially if the result was 30 lbs of complexity that wouldn't get you more than what 20 lbs of fuel would do, in which case the 20 lbs of fuel would be the better choice, cheaper, safer, easier, and all that).

    9. Re:They should add a wing by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      It's easier to fly than glide. Look at the wing area of a glider to a little Cessna and compare the weights. The glider has more wing per lb. But with power, you can be a little less efficient and still get where you are going (and because of the speeds involved and such, you want smaller wings in powered craft for better fuel economy at higher speeds, when gliders don't hit those higher speeds and you want to optimize on other parameters).

    10. Re:They should add a wing by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      "Just remember, John - no matter what, don't look up, okay?" ~

  9. Re:To hear the Kiwi version of events. . . by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 3, Informative

    There were a lot of inventors who had a fix wing aircraft before the Wright Brothers but the reason they get to say they invented it is because they could TURN the Wright Flyer. Before that they all flew in a straight line, even the French who didn't believe them, had to admit they won, when the Flyer banked away from a row of trees in Paris.

  10. After the first twenty feet... by kenh · · Score: 3, Funny

    After the first twenty feet the ascension would be much easier as my bladder and bowels empty out, lightening the load...

    --
    Ken
    1. Re:After the first twenty feet... by Sfing_ter · · Score: 1

      making the weather forecast a light sprinkle with a chance of turds?

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
    2. Re:After the first twenty feet... by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

      Unless you're planning to forgo pants for the flight all this will achieve is a slight offset to the center of mass.

    3. Re:After the first twenty feet... by youn · · Score: 1

      Please put in consideration some people's fart power... I bet some people could do without a jetpack altogether :)

      --
      Never antropomorphize computers, they do not like that :p
    4. Re:After the first twenty feet... by kenh · · Score: 1

      Boxers + short pants = weight loss

      --
      Ken
  11. Re:Who keeps the Metric System down? by zill · · Score: 2

    Who keeps the Metric System down?

    So to answer GP's question, the aviation industry.

  12. Jetpack or Personal Helicopter by ben_white · · Score: 2

    This is very cool, but it looks more like a personal helicopter than a true jetpack. Certainly could get people into inaccessible areas, but with how much gear, and you couldn't bring much of anything back (like an injured hiker, etc..). Still, quite a feat of engineering. I hope he gets investors!

    --
    cheers, ben

    Never miss a good chance to shut up -- Will Rogers
    1. Re:Jetpack or Personal Helicopter by krazytekn0 · · Score: 1

      Considering that most previous "jetpacks" used "rockets" instead of "jets" I think this one is closer to a jetpack than the rest IMO.

      --
      Not all life is cyber. Extra Income
    2. Re:Jetpack or Personal Helicopter by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      Those two spinning rotors in a duct, those are called jets.

    3. Re:Jetpack or Personal Helicopter by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      A rocket is a type of jet.

    4. Re:Jetpack or Personal Helicopter by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      The "jet" is the plume of air rushing out of the engine that provides thrust.

      A rocket is as much of a jet as a turbojet is, except that the rocket generates the jet using internal propellant only, whereas a turbojet, turbofan, etc. use the fuel to power machinery to push some of the surrounding air to form the jet.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    5. Re:Jetpack or Personal Helicopter by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      Actually ducted fans are jets. The term jet simply refers to an entrained flow inside a surrounding medium. Ducted fans produce jets with a rotor in a cowling. Pumpjets produce jets with an impeller in a cowling. Rivers produce jets as they flow into the ocean. Your garden hose produces a jet when you open the valve.

      A turbojet is one specific type of jet produced by the exhaust of a gas turbine engine. A turbofan is another type of jet produced by shaft output of a gas turbine engine powering a ducted fan. There is nothing inherently tying a gas turbine engine to a jet.

    6. Re:Jetpack or Personal Helicopter by iksbob · · Score: 1

      Or possibly a ducted fan... It really depends on the construction of the device. If the outlet is smaller than the rotor's swept area, that suggests compression of the air is involved and it would be a jet. If there's no compression, it would be a rotary wing with a cowling (possibly to reduce wing tip vortices), known as a ducted fan. Disclaimer: I am not an aeronautical engineer.

  13. Re:A great stunt! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

    Never been to Madrid, but, yes, it's damn cold in Denver.

    Then again, I live in Florida, so my idea of cold and your idea of cold are probably different. ;)

  14. Military uses by clyde_cadiddlehopper · · Score: 2

    Despite Martin Jetpack's talk of its usefulness for remote search and rescue, the real money is for military purposes. This piece describes the first practical uses of helicopters in Korea for reconnaissance, supply, and medivac. A decade later, the next generation of choppers -- Chinooks and Hueys -- were doing serious delivery work in combat.

    I, for one, welcome our new kiwi jetpack flying overlords.

    --
    Obi-Wan: "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were sudden
    1. Re:Military uses by ewibble · · Score: 1

      well I don't think we have any fighter planes in our air force, we need something

    2. Re:Military uses by nawitus · · Score: 1

      Williams X-Jet is a comparable aircraft which could do VTOL and hovering, but it was judged to be useless in combat by military analysts.

  15. Re:To hear the Kiwi version of events. . . by 91degrees · · Score: 2

    I heard that everyone was shocked when it banked, assuming it had gone out of control.

    Although the Wright Brothers first few flights were primarily about flying in a straight line. I wasn't until their third flyer that they managed what could reasonably be considered sustained controlled powered flight (No disrespect to The Wright Brothers. A much more important first.)

    Richard Pearse (the kiwi being referred to) did mange to get off the ground for short hops, so it's reasonable to consider that an aviation first as well.

  16. Interesting Procedure by davidbrit2 · · Score: 1

    The emergency parachute test was also a success.

    Personally, I would have performed that test quite a bit beforehand.

    1. Re:Interesting Procedure by kwpulliam · · Score: 2

      Actually you can't test the parachute beforehand..... because the test was for rocket deployment, at altitude, from a machine that was recently operating... anything less (even tossing it from an airplane and triggering the parachute) would be considered only a partial test in aerospace circles.

    2. Re:Interesting Procedure by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      and it was unmanned. I will say that the ride down didn't look like a lot of fun. Well better than the alternative might be but...

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  17. Must...control...credit card... by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    Maybe I can get a FEMA grant for one for Search & Rescue. Probably cheaper than a Robinson heli. (Yes, I know you can't pick up search subjects but you can't do that in a two-place Robinson either).

    1. Re:Must...control...credit card... by dotgain · · Score: 1
      Plenty of NZ Pilots use R22s for Deer Recovery. One Pilot, one shooter, and one deer at a time in the sling. They're generally regarded as insane, but the R22 can just do this.

      With no copilot you'd be fine as long as you had ground crew for the sling hookup.

    2. Re:Must...control...credit card... by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't want to risk an extraction. That's what our Back Country ground units are best at. This would be more for spotting from the air. Here in my county in Arizona, we have 8000 square miles and much of that is undeveloped land, designated wilderness areas, National Forest land, etc. I've thought about getting one of those powered paragliders. Probably much cheaper but not nearly as badass.

  18. landing. by leuk_he · · Score: 1

    Everytime you jump from a building you realize that the flying is not the problem, but the landing is the thing you have to worry about.

    1. Re:landing. by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Only the first time. If you manage to figure it out before you make it to the bottom, you can apply that solution to all subsequent jumps.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  19. Flying Kiwi? by Andy+Smith · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Flying Kiwi? by TedTschopp · · Score: 1

      The tear really sells it!

      --
      Fantasy remains a human right; we make in our measure and in our derivative mode... -- JRR Tolkien
  20. Re:To hear the Kiwi version of events. . . by Kenneth+Stephen · · Score: 3, Informative

    You are mostly correct, though you didn't mention the key word: control system. The patent that the Wright Brothers file was not for the shape of the plane, or the engine they used, but for the control systems that let them control the pitch, yaw, and roll of the aircraft. Indeed, controlling the aircraft in stable flight by defining parameters like pitch, yaw, and roll was a key insight of theirs. All their competitors weren't able to achieve stable flight because they were still guessing their way around how to keep their aircraft up and steady, and didn't really have a solution that let them control the aircraft.

    --

    There is no such thing as luck. Luck is nothing but an absence of bad luck.

  21. The shape is all wrong by MBAslug · · Score: 1

    It needs to look like a jet ski or motorcycle. There should be 4 fans, one on each corner and the user interface would be more like a motorcycle. Let go of the handles and it automatically goes into stabilized mode and your feet would control the brakes and forward acceleration. The whole thing would fit into a standard parking spot. It would have speed determined left and right tilt. In a high speed turn, the rider wants to tilt into the direction of the turn, just like a motorcycle. however, for low speed hover control the rider would lean into the direction he wants to go. Trying to nudge to the left a little to hit the parking spot, just lean to the left.

    Why should the feet dangle like a pair of dead twigs. This isn't natural and it puts the operator in an uncomfortable position. No other human operated machine ignore the legs. You also loose two potential inputs for control. And lets be honest, you couldn't shoot at the enemy using this thing. But if it was a motorcycle in the air, you could still control it by leaning your body and controlling forward speed with your feet. That free's up your arms to fire.

    And let's be honest, unless we get the army to buy enough of these things to lower the manufacturing cost, we'll never see one in the garage.

    --
    The more you scare people.....the more they will pay.
  22. Re:Who keeps the Metric System down? by mijelh · · Score: 1

    That's true, with some exceptions:
    Gliders most commonly use the metric system. Never knew why. And then there are also all those soviet build aircraft using SI (don't know if modern Russian aircraft switched to imperial).
    As for airspeed, its even weirder: Commercial aeroplanes universally use Knots, but light aircraft sometimes use mph in America, and km/h in Europe.

  23. What are feet? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    Really where is the metric whiners complaining about them using the term feet? Oh because it was a NZ newscast and a NZ citizen using them?

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:What are feet? by agm · · Score: 1

      As a NZer myself, we don't use "feet" as a measurement except, oddly enough, when referring to altitude. Not sure why. Perhaps to remain standard around the world in aviation circles. When in an aeroplane, 30,000ft seems a lot less scary than 10,000m, which my mind instantly translates to "10km".

    2. Re:What are feet? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Why do find 10km scary. To me is is comforting but not as much as 30,000ft which I round to six miles up. In aviation speed is life, altitude is life. Thing only really suck when you run out of one or both of them.
      But 30,000 ft isn't really 10,000 meters or even six miles. You see people as a whole are not too dumb to translate between system on the fly for things like news stories. The only time people should bent is when dealing with technical documentation.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:What are feet? by Cimexus · · Score: 1

      Cause it's an avation story and feet is pretty much the global standard (for better or worse).

      I'm in a metric country (Australia) and I think in metric for everything. In fact I barely know what most imperial/US measurements even are. This normally includes altitude - I think in metres for altitude above sea level on land (i.e. I know my house is 576m above sea level, and the summit of a nearby mountain is at 880m). When hiking I have a pretty good feel for how far I have ascended or decended, in metres. Etc.

      But for aviation purposes I would still talk about feet, nonetheless, because thats what pilots and aircraft instrumentation use worldwide. The thing is ... I can't really ~visualise~ how far x feet is like I can do for metres. I just know the ceilings of various aircraft in feet, and that my flights to and from the US generally top out at 39,000 ft etc. But I have no gut feel as to how high that is (whereas I can visualise, say, 10km altitude much better).

    4. Re:What are feet? by agm · · Score: 1

      Why do find 10km scary.

      I live in a metres and km based system, feet are hardly ever used. Metres and km seem more "real" to me because I can visualise exactly how long each are. With feet, not so much. Especially not 30,000 of them.

  24. The trouble with jetpacks by Animats · · Score: 1

    The basic trouble with jetpacks is that knees are terrible landing gear. You have to land vertically with a huge mass to stop, and you can't do a controlled fall like a parachute landing. Achieving altitude is not the problem. Landing is the problem.

    This thing, like the Solotrek, has landing skids, which take the landing shock. But then it's not really a jetpack. It's more like the Williams X-Jet Flying Platform from the 1980s, probably the best flying machine in this category.

    1. Re:The trouble with jetpacks by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      knee landing doesn't seem to be a problem with the compressed-air jetpacks from the 60's. Every landing I've seen was like feather. As long as the guy flying is not a total noob, and he has some thrust left, he can control the rate of descent that results in a super-soft landing every time.

    2. Re:The trouble with jetpacks by Animats · · Score: 1

      Every landing I've seen was like feather.

      That's because you're looking at really good pilots, in really good shape, flying under near ideal conditions, being very careful. Even with that, one test pilot has had six knee injuries. Just walking downstairs with 170 pounds on your back is tough.

  25. Re:Who keeps the Metric System down? by Garridan · · Score: 1

    Waitaminute... a knot is an arc-minute, right? This makes sense at sea level... but does a craft traveling at 1 knot at elevation keep up with a craft traveling at 1 knot at sea level? Or, is an aeronautical knot just 1.151 miles regardless of elevation?

  26. Re:When we all have jet packs there will be sky ja by elsJake · · Score: 1

    If cars never "took off" we wouldn't have _proper_ roads everywhere.

  27. It's a fake by StormReaver · · Score: 1

    You can clearly see the 5000ft wire. They obviously did this in the same Hollywood studio where they faked the moon landing. My aunt's best friend's sister's cab driver knows a guy who works with a girl who dated a guy who did time with another guy who once shook hands with someone who claims to have gone to the movies with someone who claims to have worked at the company that may have supplied the raw materials to make the cable, so he obviously needs to be taken seriously; and he claims the video is a fake.

    I think Faux News is investigating.

  28. The missing disclaimer: by LanceUppercut · · Score: 1

    The linked video is raw: it was not edited in accordance with the US censorship requirements and was not fed through the typically mandatory US reality distortion filer. Consequently, it can case moderate to significant amounts of butthurt among the typical bumper-sticker-US-patriot types.

  29. Re:Who keeps the Metric System down? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    1 knot ground speed, yes. 1 knot airspeed, no. A knot isn't an arc-minute, it's an idealized average of that number that's fixed.

  30. Re:the metric system by dotgain · · Score: 1

    We actually do, and have for some time. Obviously, they opted to use Feet Above Mean Sea Level just. for. the. fuck. of it. (And to conform to the rest of the aviation industry around the world)

  31. Re:Who keeps the Metric System down? by gregrah · · Score: 1

    Actually... the correct answer to the GP's question is:

    We dooo, we dooo!

  32. Skeet by AJWM · · Score: 1

    I think yesterday's installment of Schlock Mercenary is apropos regarding the military use of jetpacks.

    --
    -- Alastair
  33. Re:Who keeps the Metric System down? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1
  34. I'll invest by picoboy · · Score: 1

    ...if he adds some frickin' laser beams.

  35. It is not a jet, it is a ducted fan by George_Ou · · Score: 1

    The thing just guzzles fuel for the load that it is carrying and it's not a jet. The word "jet" is marketing and fraudulent because there is no jet propulsion. It's two inefficient ducted fans that are inappropriate for hovering compared to a small helicopter rotor. This is why the thing can only fly for 30 minutes.

  36. Re:When we all have jet packs there will be sky ja by jthill · · Score: 1
    I cannot remember the year by which New York City would have been buried six feet deep in horse shit no matter how fast they shoveled, but it was a long, long time ago. There it is, a Google search says I was lowballing the depth substantially.

    You can make cars that'll travel in 9 feet of horseshit. I don't think you cam make a horse do that.

    --
    As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.