Amazon and Barnes & Noble Jostle Over Battery Life Figures for Nook, Kindle

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Amazon and Barnes & Noble Jostle Over Battery Life Figures for Nook, Kindle

Posted by timothy on Sunday May 29, 2011 @02:18AM from the they-last-forever-in-heaven dept.

destinyland writes "Amazon just doubled the reported battery life for their Kindle digital readers — but they did it by cutting the estimated daily usage in half. Monday Amazon's competitor Barnes and Noble released a new touch-screen version of their Nook reader, and C|Net notes that apparently Amazon 'took issue with how its competitor was calculating and presenting its battery life numbers.' When Barnes and Noble claimed that the Nook's charge lasted twice as long based on a half hour a day of usage, Amazon simply recalculated the Kindle's battery life using the same formula. By Wednesday, Barnes and Noble was insisting that the Nook's charge still lasted twice as long as the Kindle's. 'If that's true, then Barnes and Noble mangled the launch of their touch-screen Nook,' reports one Kindle blog, 'by botching their description of one of its main selling points.'"

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How About ... by WrongSizeGlass · 2011-05-29 02:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

How about stating the battery life in actual hours of continuous use instead of estimated days based on estimated usage? Is that really so hard?
1. Re:How About ... by SquirrelDeth · 2011-05-29 02:28 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Yes from a marketing point of view. It's a game to see who can come up with the longest battery time using the most convoluted methods to sell the product its better to sell a product and have a disappointed customer than not sell a product. Chances they wouldn't buy another product any ways.
2. Re:How About ... by petteyg359 · 2011-05-29 02:30 · Score: 1
  
  Do the math.
  Wireless on: 30 minutes * 21 days = 0.5h * 21 = 10.5 hours
  Wireless off: 30 minutes per day * (60 or 62) days = 0.5h* (60 or 62) = 30h or 31h.
  60 accounts for the shortest possible two months (February (28) + either adjacent month), and 62 accounts for two 31 day months.
3. Re:How About ... by TD-Linux · 2011-05-29 02:34 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  On eInk based readers, it's actually harder than that. How many times do you flip the page in an hour? The number of pageflips per charge seems like a better metric.
4. Re:How About ... by Hope+Thelps · 2011-05-29 02:34 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  How about stating the battery life in actual hours of continuous use instead of estimated days based on estimated usage? Is that really so hard?
  Pretty hard. The Kindle (and presumably the Nook?) doesn't use battery power to just sit there showing a page while you read it; it only uses power when you turn the page (or connect to WIFI or 3G). The rate at which you need to turn pages (and thus use power) is going to depend on a combination of your reading speed, the nature of the material, and the font size you've set. You can make assumptions for all that but it still really comes down to "estimated usage".
  
  --
  To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
5. Re:How About ... by drinkypoo · 2011-05-29 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  Obviously three benchmarks are needed. One is how long you can turn pages at a given rate. Another is how long it can sit and play mp3s. The third is how long it can do both. This should cover the primary usage patterns...
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
6. Re:How About ... by Kral_Blbec · 2011-05-29 02:46 · Score: 0
  
  Correct. I believe this is posted for the Kindle, around 6000 page turns if memory serves me. Disclaimer: I used to work in tech support for the Kindle. When I started I was an avid Amazon fan. I hate and boycott them now for the shitty treatment they give their employees.
7. Re:How About ... by vadim_t · 2011-05-29 02:47 · Score: 1
  
  I imagine it still uses a little bit to power some memory to store the page you're on, maybe some filesystem structures and such things.
8. Re:How About ... by BrokenHalo · 2011-05-29 02:53 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I don't have first-hand experience of this (yet), but my wife seems to get over 2 weeks between charges on her Sony PRX-650 reader (a birthday present from yours truly). And she gets through books at a prodigious rate - thousands of page-turns per week. It was mainly the fact that the device seems to offer just about the best multi-format support that was the biggest selling point, but power usage seems fairly impressive to me.
9. Re:How About ... by __aaqvdr516 · 2011-05-29 02:55 · Score: 1
  
  It is hard when the number you'd have to put on the box is lower than the last generation you produced.
  Marketing speak at its finest.
10. Re:How About ... by fermion · 2011-05-29 02:56 · Score: 2
  
  My impression was that the Kindle and Nook both use technology that only uses large amounts of power when the page is turned. This means that hours of continuous use is not really a good metric, as they can just base this on a slow reader, say 15 page flips an hour.
  What they should be doing is like the number for the iphone. Give expected battery life for different uses: some number of page turns, some number for web browsing, etc. Of couse, as this is only marketing, transparency and honesty has nothing to do with it.
  
  --
  "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
11. Re:How About ... by marga · 2011-05-29 02:56 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The math is not so simple as that, because these devices waste some battery while on stand-by. So if you don't turn them completely off (which is not usual, due to the painful amount of time it takes to start-up).
  With my nook (first edition), I've found that I can read between 10 to 14 days of aprox. 1 hour a day (about 12 hours of reading), but I can also use it for 3 days of 8 hours a day (about 24 hours of reading) -only feasable on holidays, obviously-. All of this with wireless off, and none of it an exact measurement, just what I've experienced.
  So yes, measuring battery life is hard, it depends a lot on the use you give the device. However, it annoys me that it wastes so much battery on keeping it on stand-by. Maybe they've worked on that for the nook 2, and that's why they are parading their 2 months estimate. Because, with the old nook, it's not true that you can double the amount of days the battery lasts if you halve the amount of hours you read.
  
  --
  Margarita Manterola.
12. Re:How About ... by msauve · 2011-05-29 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  Do you often read for 48+ hours straight?
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
13. Re:How About ... by halivar · 2011-05-29 03:03 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Yep. If I leave my Kindle unplugged, and unread, for 3 weeks the charge dies.
  But if I leave on vacation for a full week on a full charge, read 4-6 hours/day in the hotel room/beach, and further read for 12 hours worth of flying + delays (the joys of overnight travel coast-to-coast via coach), I get back home with about 20% charge. Not bad, IMHO.
14. Re:How About ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 03:03 · Score: 0
  
  I'm sure the marketers could work around that one that as well... after all, power drain depends on what exactly the user is doing.
15. Re:How About ... by halivar · 2011-05-29 03:07 · Score: 1
  
  Someone handed me Lord of the Rings when I was 20. I missed meals and classes for 2 days. /shame
16. Re:How About ... by Nimey · 2011-05-29 03:07 · Score: 1
  
  What sort of shitty treatment?
  
  --
  Hail Eris, full of mischief...
  
  E pluribus sanguinem
17. Re:How About ... by ReptilianSamurai · 2011-05-29 03:10 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  How about battery life in percentages of Libraries of Congress that can be read on a single charge?
  
  --
  I installed Linux on a car, but it crashed due to bad drivers...
18. Re:How About ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 03:14 · Score: 1
  
  I just glanced at the Cnet review of the new Nook. Apparently the time you can listen to MP3s is zero hours and zero minutes (it doesn't play MP3s). You might want to doublecheck that fact yourself, because my reading retention is getting scarily poor, but I think that is what it said.
19. Re:How About ... by peragrin · 2011-05-29 03:22 · Score: 1
  
  How about stating hard drive size in actual bytes sizes, instead of base ten math?
  Marketing depts always get their way even if it is a lie.
  
  --
  i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
20. Re:How About ... by similar_name · 2011-05-29 03:38 · Score: 1
  
  I just invented some tires that last twice as long as any other tires made today*
  
  *Figure based on assumption that car will be driven straight with no stopping or turning.
21. Re:How About ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 03:52 · Score: 0
  
  we're nerds here. How about stating the number of milliamp-hours the battery holds, and then stating the minimum, maximum draw of the device? (Or draw under most typical conditions, or with and without wifi)...
22. Re:How About ... by drinkypoo · 2011-05-29 03:55 · Score: 0
  
  If it doesn't do that then it doesn't need that benchmark. For the units that do, it's something they will commonly be used for... Thanks for being an anonymous douche.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
23. Re:How About ... by lucian1900 · 2011-05-29 03:59 · Score: 1
  
  I have a PRS 350, I get 1-2 weeks of usage, and I also read a lot. If I also use it for taking notes, a week or less.
24. Re:How About ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 04:07 · Score: 0
  
  I have a first generation nook and I seem to get about the same battery life, roughly two weeks.
25. Re:How About ... by Surt · 2011-05-29 04:14 · Score: 1
  
  I find it a stretch to believe that battery life would be the deciding factor for purchase on these devices. Once you pass one day worth of reading time (and they both have), who cares?
  
  --
  "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
26. Re:How About ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  The toilet paper in the bathrooms lacks aloe lotion. It really chaps their hides.
27. Re:How About ... by Bert64 · 2011-05-29 04:21 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly, i have no problem charging a device daily while i sleep... But i want to be sure that even under heavy use, that device will last the whole day should i choose to make such heavy use of it.
  
  --
  http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
28. Re:How About ... by Ephemeriis · 2011-05-29 04:26 · Score: 1
  
  How about stating the battery life in actual hours of continuous use instead of estimated days based on estimated usage? Is that really so hard?
  With an e-ink display, it isn't so much the number of hours in use... It's more about how many times the screen refreshes.
  Of course the device will use some power just sitting there idle... But e-ink doesn't really draw power except when it refreshes the screen. So, if you're actively reading and flipping lots of pages, you'll burn through the battery. If you're somewhat distracted, or a slow reader, or if you're looking at a single page for some reason (a diagram, or something) it'll last longer.
  And then you'll use more power if you're using the wi-fi... Like when you're shopping their ebook store, or downloading your purchases...
  So they have to come up with a profile of how often they think folks use the wi-fi, and how often they turn the page, and how long the device sits there unused... And that profile can easily be tweaked to look better than the competition.
  
  --
  "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
29. Re:How About ... by MasseKid · 2011-05-29 04:33 · Score: 1
  
  Does your thumb drive need power to store stuff? Kindles are not typical devices. They're designed from the ground up to be battery minimalists.
30. Re:How About ... by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2011-05-29 05:07 · Score: 1
  
  I think this is exactly it. There is a point of diminishing returns, once you're past that, you should be looking at other considerations, such as size, weight, useful features, etc. Recharging once a week is about a sweet spot for me. More often is annoying, any longer, and I might lose the charging cable.
31. Re:How About ... by Raenex · 2011-05-29 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  When it comes to comparing items, especially electronic ones, the numbers game is huge when it comes to consumer decisions. All else being equal, people will go for the bigger number.
32. Re:How About ... by gnasher719 · 2011-05-29 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  How about stating the battery life in actual hours of continuous use instead of estimated days based on estimated usage? Is that really so hard?
  Would be unfair to any device that uses very little power while not in use vs. one that uses batteries while in use. I could have device A doing 24 hours continues and B doing only 20 hours, but device A running out after 3 days with 2 hours per day, while device B lasts 9 days with 2 hours per day. I'd most likely prefer B which would look worse according to your criterion.
  
  In the beginning of MP3 players, everybody except Sony counted 1 song = 4 minutes at 128 Kbit for capacity of their players. Sony counted capacity with 48 KBit / sec compression..
33. Re:How About ... by timothy · 2011-05-29 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  And I can double *that*! (Assuming driving only in a wheelie; when you reach the other coast, please swap front and back tires, unless your car can also do a reverse wheelie on the front tires ...)
  timothy
  
  --
  jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
34. Re:How About ... by Tasha26 · 2011-05-29 05:43 · Score: 1
  
  Because they didn't learn from what happened to the laptop industry. Was it 5-6 years ago when the advertising regulating body told manufacturers to quote accurate battery life. Amnesia is very common in the tech industry... I guess it's only an amount of time before fines drill some sense into tablet manufacturers.
35. Re:How About ... by Rich0 · 2011-05-29 05:53 · Score: 2
  
  They do measure it in bytes - you just want them to divide it by a number divisible by 2 only, and the marketers divide it by a number divisible by 10. Frankly I could care less as long as they label the units clearly - if I care I can figure it out.
  The battery life issue is a bit different, since they aren't measured in any kind of standard units that lets me compare claims easily. I'd be happy if they just declared how many joules the battery contains, what the steady-state wattage is when powered on, and the number of Joules consumed per page turn, etc. :)
36. Re:How About ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 07:46 · Score: 0
  
  So they can make it so I can take out the battery and the page I'm reading won't disappear? I suspect the screens take some power to keep on, there is probably some volatile memory that requires power to keep alive, even if the wifi or 3G isn't connected, if it's trying to connect then it's using some power.
37. Re:How About ... by PlusFiveTroll · 2011-05-29 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  As the poster above said. LOTR, also read the entire Harry Potter series beginning to end in around two days. For avid readers of series it could be an issue.
38. Re:How About ... by gemtech · 2011-05-29 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  I design low power, battery operated stuff (enMotion paper towel dispenser is one of them), and it always turns out to be a marketing claim about battery life, not always rooted in the reality of just how much enery is in the batteries. I've also worked with kitchen appliances where they are rated in Watts (mixers, blenders) and Amps (vacume cleaners), neither tell the consumer how much work they can perform (or how efficent they are). Someday I'm going to stop letting marking push my designs around... oh wait, they have something to to with my paycheck.
  
  --
  Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
39. Re:How About ... by PlusFiveTroll · 2011-05-29 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  Unless the tires were rated for over double the wheel weight of your car, that probably wouldn't be true. I'm not sure of the ratio of weight to wear but I'm pretty sure that it is not anywhere close to linear.
40. Re:How About ... by Tyler+Eaves · 2011-05-29 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  You do know that, at least on the kindle, you can charge while reading right? The plug isn't even in an awkward place.
  
  --
  TODO: Something witty here...
41. Re:How About ... by WuphonsReach · 2011-05-29 10:10 · Score: 1
  
  My Sony PRS-505, when new, was good for 2-3 weeks of an hour or two per night. And I could leave it lay on the bed stand for a week or three without worrying about the charge.
  
  After 2-3 years, I have to tend to it at least every other week for it to stay charged and useful.
  
  (Fewer books and no add-in cards helps. The SD card slot was always a battery killer compared to the Sony Memory Stick Duo.)
  
  --
  Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
42. Re:How About ... by curunir · 2011-05-29 10:20 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, because there's no concept of continuous use when it comes to a device like the Kindle...it would all depend on how fast you read each page. Devices like the Kindle should have their battery life measured in page refreshes rather than hours. The only thing that uses power continuously is the wireless, which kills battery life anyways.
  And the whole argument is foolish to begin with considering the non-wireless battery life for these devices tends to be measured not in days or even weeks but rather months. Does it really matter that one device lasts 1 month and the other lasts 2? Next up, let's argue about which e-reader holds more books...the Nook can only hold 1000 books while the Kindle can hold 3,500.
  It's not hard to find a place to charge your device every few weeks and 1000 book storage is more than 99% of users will ever need. Both devices last long enough and hold enough that users shouldn't care about these specs. This is just a petty squabble between two marketing departments that the rest of us should ignore.
  
  --
  "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
43. Re:How About ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 10:26 · Score: 0
  
  How about stating hard drive size in actual bytes sizes, instead of base ten math?
  Marketing depts always get their way even if it is a lie.
  OK, here's a number:
  14539542
  Quick, divide it by 1000
  OK, that was easy. Now divide it by 1024. Not so easy now, is it?
44. Re:How About ... by similar_name · 2011-05-29 10:34 · Score: 1
  
  I think two specs would work perfectly. One for continuous use and one for continuous standby. Then the consumer (intelligent fellow that he is :) ) can determine the best mix. Of course if their batteries were standardized and interchangeable it could be worse (from a bad marketing perspective). They would then just say it last twice as long. Twice as long as what, no one would know.
45. Re:How About ... by narcc · 2011-05-29 10:45 · Score: 2
  
  Assuming we're still talking about the Kindle
  
  So they can make it so I can take out the battery and the page I'm reading won't disappear?
  Yes
  
  I suspect the screens take some power to keep on
  No
  
  --
  Required reading for internet skeptics
46. Re:How About ... by bennettp · 2011-05-29 10:52 · Score: 1
  
  At the other end of the spectrum, my GF's kindle usually lasts about 2-4 weeks. But she just got 7 weeks out of it; she's been very busy at work lately and hasn't been using it much. (FWIW, that's the Kindle 3 WiFi model, not the 3G model).
  Either way, it lasts long enough that you don't need to worry about the battery at all.
47. Re:How About ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 12:40 · Score: 0
  
  I don't know. It's kind of like cellphone life, IMO. Techies are fine as long as it lasts all day; we'll just plug it in after work every day, and/or leave it plugged in overnight, and many of us will arrange some way to plug in at work too. But remember the earlier days of cellphones, before they were ubiquitous; people wanted to be assured the phone wouldn't silently crap out on them when they needed it, or silently miss calls. That worry went away when non-smartphones got standby times measured in weeks and talk times of like 8+ hours.
  Readers are something that the manufacturers want mass adoption for; to mostly replace physical books, magazines, and newspapers. That means they need to grab not just the techies, but also the same people who were worried about dead cellphones a few years ago. Those won't want to take the multi-hundred-dollar plunge for something measured as a single day of battery life (even if the standby is longer), for about the same reason "oh i might read a lot, forget to plug it in, and then have to wait to charge it tomorrow right when i really need it!". Hence the price cuts and fudging the numbers based on expected daily use. Tactics to try to win the market early, because in five years the battery life will be enough to make that issue irrelevant.
48. Re:How About ... by Surt · 2011-05-29 15:55 · Score: 1
  
  Sure, I'm just surprised neither competitor is choosing to compete on a different number. For example, weight.
  
  --
  "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
49. Re:How About ... by aiht · 2011-05-29 16:57 · Score: 1
  
  Someone handed me Lord of the Rings when I was 20. I missed meals and classes for 2 days. /shame
  Shame? Why, because you didn't read LotR until you were twenty?
  Hand in your junior geek card at once!
50. Re:How About ... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-05-29 17:09 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, and you can expect several thousand page flips. Which is to say, at least half a dozen books (keeping in mind that a 6" 600x800 page is smaller in terms of how much readable text fits on it, compared to a paper book). Which, for all practical purposes, means that you'll get bored with it long before the battery runs out.
  I usually forget to charge my Kindle (just because it's such a rare occasion) until it starts complaining about low battery while reading - which seems to happen every other week or so.
51. Re:How About ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 17:11 · Score: 0
  
  > Frankly I could care less
  No, you couldn't. You even tell us this in the next clause:
  > if I care I can figure it out.
52. Re:How About ... by arkenian · 2011-05-29 17:23 · Score: 1
  
  while I agree at some level, at least a week with the wireless off is kind of a minimum for me. Why? Becuase I use my kindle all the time. With my phone I can plug it in at the end of the day, but my kindle may still be in my hands when I fall asleep, and then I like to bring it with me, etc. etc. So overall, finding a time and remembering to charge it is a much bigger issue than with a phone for my use profile (and while mine is a bit extreme, its by no means unique.) And a standard 'day' of continuous use has to be very long -- I expect to be able to fly anywhere on the wolrd on signifcantly less than one charge. (also, this allows you to take short international trips without worrying about chargers etc.)
  Overall, while more battery life than it currently has would not be as huge a selling point, I actually noticed and appreciated the longer battery life between the k2 and the k3.
53. Re:How About ... by deniable · 2011-05-29 19:00 · Score: 1
  
  My thumb drive doesn't keep the processor in a ready-to-go state all of the time. These devices have an on, off and in-between state that actually drains power while doing 'nothing.' When they're fully off, they take some time to fire up.
54. Re:How About ... by maxwell+demon · 2011-05-29 20:45 · Score: 1
  
  Assuming we're still talking about the Kindle
  
  So they can make it so I can take out the battery and the page I'm reading won't disappear?
  Yes
  
  I suspect the screens take some power to keep on
  No
  Indeed, you need power to make the page disappear.
  
  --
  The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
55. Re:How About ... by SomePgmr · 2011-05-29 21:29 · Score: 1
  
  The real joke is that all these readers have the same battery life... "crazy long time". We have a kindle and nook (the b&w+bottom color one). They both last forever between charges.
56. Re:How About ... by hazydave · 2011-05-30 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  Hard drives are rated in bytes... base 10 bytes. That's MB and GB, not MiB or GiB. Sure, it favors the marketing, but it is also the proper unit for a hard drive, or a human. The power of two sizing is only appropriate for RAM and ROM integrated circuit devices. Don't blame your hard drive when its your OS using the inappropriate units.
  
  --
  -Dave Haynie
57. Re:How About ... by MHolmesIV · 2011-05-31 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  Aah, and even that differs. The CPU usage involved in laying out only a few words (at the largest font sized) is much less than laying out a lot of words (at the smallest) so you have to specify pages turns at font size X. Also, a complex book will take more CPU to lay out, so now you have to specify the complexity of the book too.
  And even more than that, you'll get different numbers of pages turned if you turn 1 page a minute (let's say you're an average to slow reader) or 1 page a second (reeeally fast reader).
  And the clincher, all these numbers are with the Wifi off. Who does that all the time? Especially on the Kindle, where if you leave the Wifi off, and it reboots for any reason, it is unable to set the current time and all the books you're reading go to the end of the read list (the were last opened sometime in 1980...) I make sure to turn my wifi on every so often to get updates and new books, and then I forget to turn it off and (it feels like) 20 minutes later I have to charge the Kindle.
58. Re:How About ... by MHolmesIV · 2011-05-31 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  It does use slightly more power showing a page than it does with the screensaver on. It's the same amount of power for the screen (none) but they query the hardware for keystate changes when showing a page. The CPU is kept in a slightly different power saving mode when "live" as opposed to asleep.
59. Re:How About ... by Coren22 · 2011-05-31 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  Even the Nook Color lasts pretty long. I charge mine every 4 days or so, but it really depends on if my kids get ahold of it as the games on a rooted nook drain the battery.
  
  --
  APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
60. Re:How About ... by Coren22 · 2011-05-31 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  Except that hard drives were originally in 1024 kbytes, then was changed when someone realized it sounded better to have a larger number, even when it was not larger.
  
  --
  APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
61. Re:How About ... by Coren22 · 2011-05-31 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  I would even offer that if you half your speed the tires will last near twice as long. If I could only stop peeling out all the time, I might actually get decent life out of my tires.
  
  --
  APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
62. Re:How About ... by Coren22 · 2011-05-31 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  In that case, every e-reader will work for you, even the Nook Color, as it lasts near 4 days without charging for me (and my kids who love the games on it after rooting).
  
  --
  APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
63. Re:How About ... by Coren22 · 2011-05-31 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  Even when sleeping the Nook B&W will draw a decent amount of power as it runs in "screen saver" mode and switches the sleep picture every so often (something like every half hour, long enough that it isn't worth measuring, but often enough that I noticed the change from off to on). I do believe that this is an incredibly stupid marketing stunt though, as all the e-readers last way longer than anyone cares already.
  
  --
  APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
64. Re:How About ... by timothy · 2011-05-31 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  In real life, my speed-limit, pseudo-hypermiling driving habit may be why my tires have generally outlived expectations ;)
  That's something I'd never considered before, though. I'm actually amazed by how well tires hold up, considering potholes, glass, rocks, and (esp, when I push through West Texas) heat. They're pretty amazing, really.
  timothy
  
  --
  jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
65. Re:How About ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-01 06:46 · Score: 0
  
  That's not quite right, they are based on a technology that only uses small amounts of power when the page is turned and minuscule amounts the rest of the time, that's why they can last weeks between charges.
66. Re:How About ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-01 07:04 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, if you still have a junior geek card at that age it is probably time to turn it in and apply for a adult one.
  And for the record, I was 20 when I read LoTR, I don't think that makes me less of a geek. Although I remember reading about some author* who read LoTR in 24 hours straight when he was a kid, so 48 hours is definitely a "could do better" grade on the obsessive reading front.
  *I think it was Terry Pratchett, but I'm not sure.
Less Is More by petteyg359 · 2011-05-29 02:24 · Score: 0

Does B&N offer 5GB per month, then advertise it as better than the competitor's unlimited option, too?
Who to root for... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 02:27 · Score: 0

Amazon... Who filled the internet with ads, And was a little bitch over the wikileaks thing...
Or b&n... The provider of many many hours of enjoyable reading.
Tough call.
1. Re:Who to root for... by _xeno_ · 2011-05-29 02:31 · Score: 1
  
  Given that the next page button in my original Nook broke just after the warranty period ended (which makes it a bit hard to use to read books, unless you like reading them backwards)...
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
2. Re:Who to root for... by errandum · 2011-05-29 02:43 · Score: 2
  
  Because Amazon weren't the pioneers of hassle free reading (sarcasm)
  Also, the kindle is available everywhere. Literally free 3g everywhere in the world.
  I dropped my kindle once and Amazon replaced it, no questions asked.
  Not saying the nook is bad, but the Kindle and Amazons' customer service just bought them a lifetime customer
3. Re:Who to root for... by Lunix+Nutcase · 2011-05-29 02:53 · Score: 1
  
  Literally free 3g everywhere in the world.
  Sure, if you ignore the fact that 3g isn't available everywhere in the world. Hell, I can drive through parts of major cities in the US and lose 3g.
4. Re:Who to root for... by cellocgw · 2011-05-29 03:14 · Score: 1
  
  ,i>Given that the next page button in my original Nook broke just after the warranty period ended (which makes it a bit hard to use to read books, unless you like reading them backwards)
  I call troll on this one First of all, Nooks have two -- count 'em!--two! each of Fwd and Rev buttons. Second, once the LCD goes dormant, a swipe gesture will turn the pages for you.
  
  --
  https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
5. Re:Who to root for... by hedwards · 2011-05-29 03:27 · Score: 1
  
  I take it you haven't actually compared the two in any sort of meaningful way. The displays are the same, the build quality on both are really good. But where Nook really shines over Kindle is in the little details like swipe to turn on top of the other sets of buttons, the micro SD card slot and the ability to buy books from pretty much everybody except Amazon. With Amazon being too much of a bitch to offer books in a standard format.
  And Kindle 3G isn't free, the policy with that is identical to the one that B&N has over its 3G Nook, the 3G is only free when used to access the respective store and any other use can end with the owner being sent a bill to cover the extra cost.
6. Re:Who to root for... by errandum · 2011-05-29 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  *most countries of the civilized world.
  there, happy? :)
7. Re:Who to root for... by errandum · 2011-05-29 03:54 · Score: 1
  
  never charged me anything (granted, I don't browse the web with it, just the ocasional e-mail)
  I was answering to this (that actually didn't compare anything)
  "Amazon... Who filled the internet with ads, And was a little bitch over the wikileaks thing...
  Or b&n... The provider of many many hours of enjoyable reading."
  I have countless hours of enjoyable reading on my kindle, and amazon's service has been nothing short of awesome so far. That was my whole point.
  PS: And if you want to use books in other formats you can. It already reads pdf's and ePub's can be converted to mobipocket with 2 clicks. That's a non-issue, I think.
8. Re:Who to root for... by Surt · 2011-05-29 04:27 · Score: 0
  
  Still doesn't address it being useless in the US, a primary market for the device. ;-)
  
  --
  "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
9. Re:Who to root for... by errandum · 2011-05-29 04:39 · Score: 1
  
  I said "most", not all. You're one of those where it's not :P
  I don't live in the US, so I have no idea how good or bad it is, I know that in europe conditions are pretty sweet every country I've been in.
10. Re:Who to root for... by _xeno_ · 2011-05-29 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  I knew someone would bring that up. However, you most likely have a dominant hand. And, if you've ever used a Nook, you'll notice that: 1. You almost always hold it in one hand, and 2. it's nearly impossible to do the swipe gesture while holding the Nook in one hand.
  Oh, and it's overly easy to accidentally hit the "n" and turn the touchscreen back on, which turns the "next page" gesture into a "do something random" gesture. (As hitting the "n" as part of the swipe gesture doesn't count as "next page.")
  However, none of that really matters, because the next page button should never have broken in the first place!
  This is like trying to excuse a keyboard where the left control routinely breaks by saying that "well, you always have the right control key, and you can just use sticky keys to emulate the control key." It's still a shoddy piece of crap.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
11. Re:Who to root for... by dakameleon · 2011-05-29 12:20 · Score: 1
  
  Let me put in a +1 for that. I travelled in India and it was a godsend, far cheaper than paying the $20/mb my cell provider was attempting to screw me over with.
  
  --
  Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
100 years on a single charge!! by SuperCharlie · 2011-05-29 02:29 · Score: 1

(fine print: at 2 microseconds per day)
Half hour a day? by PhrostyMcByte · 2011-05-29 02:29 · Score: 2

I own the original Nook, and get in at least an hour, usually two or more, spread throughout the day. Do people buying dedicated e-readers (as opposed to color tablets) really only get in a half hour every day? I'd thought the market was mostly for readers like me.
Then again Amazon is no saint here either, with their "50% higher contrast Kindle 3!" which in reality only had 6% darker (to the eye) blacks.
1. Re:Half hour a day? by taxman_10m · 2011-05-29 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks. I was wondering if the new eInk screens are worth it with the advertised higher contrast. I also have an original Nook so I guess the new screen isn't different enough to merit an upgrade.
  I don't get the obsession over battery life either. When I read I have airplane mode on. It lasts long enough for my use.
2. Re:Half hour a day? by halivar · 2011-05-29 02:43 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Myself, I prefer the lower contrast of the Kindle specifically because it most emulates the faded, cheap ink and light bleached paper of your standard paperback novel. I can sit for 8 hour stretches and forget I'm holding an electronic device.
  But that's just me.
3. Re:Half hour a day? by gfxguy · 2011-05-29 03:08 · Score: 2
  
  Well, I bought a couple of Nooks last year (mostly for the kids before going on vacation); they've been great (despite my ethical problems with digital licensing and the occasional e-book that actually costs more than the digital version).
  One of the selling points at the time was not so much battery life, but user replaceable batteries. With the Nook, you could walk into a B&N and buy a new battery and replace it yourself... with the Kindle you had to send it in, at your expense, to have the battery replaced.
  If it's still the same, then an hour here or there wouldn't matter to me - in little more than a year I don't recall we've had any problems with battery life as long as you keep it charged.
  I actually am not rooting for either side, I really don't care... nook won for me on a few tiny technical merits... I find it laughable that this is what it comes down to. I've also seen the color screens and wonder what the point is... they seem nothing like the e-ink screens, and I can't imagine wanting to read one for any length of time.
  
  --
  Stupid sexy Flanders.
4. Re:Half hour a day? by PhrostyMcByte · 2011-05-29 03:35 · Score: 1
  
  I find it laughable that this is what it comes down to.
  Something that would set a reader worlds ahead of the others is proper typesetting. I want automatic hyphenation, good kerning, ligatures, hanging punctuation, and paragraph-optimized justification.
  Should all be completely doable on a low-power device. This is the last great advantage that books have over e-readers. The first one to get these things wins, hands down. I fear it'll be a long time coming though, since a lot of these devices seem to be designed by people who don't actually read.
5. Re:Half hour a day? by Ephemeriis · 2011-05-29 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  I own the original Nook, and get in at least an hour, usually two or more, spread throughout the day. Do people buying dedicated e-readers (as opposed to color tablets) really only get in a half hour every day? I'd thought the market was mostly for readers like me.
  Yeah... That figure seems a bit odd to me, as well.
  I bought a nook because I read a good amount. Reading is one of my primary timesinks. I'll easily put in half an hour over a lunch break... Another 15-30 minutes here and there throughout the day as I'm waiting for appointments or meetings or whatever to start... And then a good hour or two in the evening... And that's all during the week. On the weekend, or a holiday, I can spend 6-8 hours reading a good book.
  I mean, if I only read 30 minutes a day, I don't think I would have cared enough about my books to buy a nook.
  
  --
  "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
6. Re:Half hour a day? by Ephemeriis · 2011-05-29 04:36 · Score: 1
  
  One of the selling points at the time was not so much battery life, but user replaceable batteries. With the Nook, you could walk into a B&N and buy a new battery and replace it yourself... with the Kindle you had to send it in, at your expense, to have the battery replaced.
  That's one of the main reasons my wife and I bought nooks, instead of kindles.
  She's got an old iPod... 1st or 2nd generation, I'm not sure which. It still functions just fine, but the battery is completely shot. Has been for ages. I don't think it actually lasted longer than a year. We still use the thing in a docking station, but it is no longer portable. It has to be plugged in to power to work.
  I didn't want a repeat of that with my nook.
  You can buy replacement batteries at B&N, as well as Best Buy. I'm sure they can be ordered on-line, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's some off-brand version as well. When my battery eventually dies I can replace it myself with no trouble at all. If I was really worried about battery life I could even purchase a couple extra batteries, charge them up, and swap them out when they get low.
  
  --
  "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
7. Re:Half hour a day? by Lulu+of+the+Lotus-Ea · 2011-05-29 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  I can't speak to what Amazon measured as "50%" nor what PhrostyMcByte measured at "6%" ... they both sound like strange attempts to connote more than measure. However, I WILL note that I happened to buy my partner a Kindle 2 shortly before the Kindle 3 launch, and used the device enough to find it "pretty good, but I sure wish the contrast was better." This is subjective, but definitely what I found in the conditions in which I normally read (she used it more than I did, but I read enough on it to get a sense). Then that Kindle 2 had a hardware problem not related to the screen, and the helpful Amazon rep basically told her "get the Kindle 3 instead" ... and that change actually wound up costing a negative amount, since we went to Wifi only and returned the Kindle 2 within warranty for full refund. Anyway, with the Kindle 3, my subjective sense is "contrast is not an issue I need to think about."
  So I don't know what quantitative percentage difference that is, nor exactly what a percentage would measure. But as a threshold thing, it went from noticeably lacking to nothing to worry about. I assume that the improvements to other brands of e-ink readers have crossed a similar threshold by now, and my guess is that they have all reached "good enough" (there are other things I would wish better: I have software freeze-ups on my Kindle DX that really suck; I wish the flicker on page turn was much less [and it could be with a smarter algorithm for pixels to change]; the interface could be improved; etc. ... but e-ink itself seems to have reached maturity).
  
  --
  Buy Text Processing in Python
8. Re:Half hour a day? by RocketRabbit · 2011-05-29 07:20 · Score: 1
  
  The iPad does all this.
9. Re:Half hour a day? by egranlund · 2011-05-29 07:32 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks. I was wondering if the new eInk screens are worth it with the advertised higher contrast. I also have an original Nook so I guess the new screen isn't different enough to merit an upgrade.
  I don't get the obsession over battery life either. When I read I have airplane mode on. It lasts long enough for my use.
  The new e-ink screens are noticeably better from the old ones, but not worth the upgrade on their own IMO.
  I went from a Kindle 2 to Kindle 3 and I definitely like the Kindle 3 screen a lot better - it's easier to read.
10. Re:Half hour a day? by dakameleon · 2011-05-29 12:23 · Score: 1
  
  ... for about a half hour a day before needing a charge.
  (I kid, I kid)
  
  --
  Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
11. Re:Half hour a day? by PhrostyMcByte · 2011-05-29 13:41 · Score: 1
  
  I can't speak to what Amazon measured as "50%" nor what PhrostyMcByte measured at "6%" ... they both sound like strange attempts to connote more than measure.
  The 6% is a fact -- E-Ink's website has all the technical details of their Pearl screen, and anyone can do the math. I was curious about it so I did. The 50% number is technically correct, but is cheating a little. It corresponds to the amount of light reflected and NOT the perceived brightness (your eyes don't see twice the photons as 2x brighter).
  E-Ink already has pretty poor contrast... about as much as a newspaper if you're in good light, and significantly less in poor light. I'm not knocking progress -- only their marketing.
12. Re:Half hour a day? by walternate · 2011-05-29 23:57 · Score: 1
  
  The iPad does all this.
  So does my desktop PC :-)
  Why iPad is almost as unsuited as e-reader to me, is
  1) Size and weight. I can hold my Kindle with one hand for hours while reading without getting tired, it is lighter than a small paperback, and can be carried in my jacket pocket.
  2) E-ink screen vs glowing LCD screen unreadable in sunlight. For extended reading - and outdoor reading, like at the beach - Kindle screen is extremely comfortable to read.
  3) Battery life measured in hours on iPad vs. weeks on Kindle. Travelling a lot, using iPad the way I use Kindle would means bringing charger and having to to plan charging.
  What I do agree with is that for anything else than reading, iPad is superior to the Kindle, but I have other devices for that I'm happy with.
13. Re:Half hour a day? by hazydave · 2011-05-30 02:55 · Score: 1
  
  Pretty happy with my Notion Ink Adam as an eReader. I don't need all week on a charge all day is fine. Indoors, backlit is handy in a dark room. Color is important for magazines, higher resolution useful for tech documents, as is first class PDF support and plenty of memory (32GB in extra flash, support for USB sticks, etc).
  Outdoors, the Pixel Qi display is nice and crisp in full sunlight, tough not as high contrast as eink. With the backlight off, the device runs longer still. And of course, I can use Amazon, B&N, Adobe, and many other readers, no lock-in.
  Sure, weight is an issue for long term hand holding. Like most tablets, the screen is glossy... the eBook folks seem to have the screen done better, most being a modest matte finish. The Adam has a bottom ridge along one side which makes hand holding a little easier, tough of course, not as crazy thin as a Kindle or iPad 2.
  
  --
  -Dave Haynie
14. Re:Half hour a day? by Quirkz · 2011-05-31 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  I haven't turned on my Nook in 6 months, so I guess you and I even out. The weird thing is, I do really like the Nook, but I go through spurts with it. Those spurts end when I pick up a dozen books at a library sale or on the rare occasion I make it to a Half Price Books and can stock up. When those books run out, I go back to the Nook.
  
  --
  The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
This would be so easy... by errandum · 2011-05-29 02:39 · Score: 2

Just say "it allows for 20000 page turns"
That way it's not a relative time, but a real number people can evaluate.
It's like saying my Mac can stay on for 30 days and not mentioning the fact that it's on standby.
1. Re:This would be so easy... by drinkypoo · 2011-05-29 02:56 · Score: 1
  
  It's like saying my Mac can stay on for 30 days and not mentioning the fact that it's on standby.
  But can it? One of my machines has a bug that makes it use 10% of the battery no matter what condition it's in (unless it's actually off. But then it still leaks pretty good.)
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
2. Re:This would be so easy... by hedwards · 2011-05-29 03:29 · Score: 2
  
  The problem is that all page turns aren't created equally. You'll get markedly less battery life if you use the software to enlarge or shrink the text. Not to mention that you'll get differing amounts of run time depending upon what type of documents you're looking at.
3. Re:This would be so easy... by errandum · 2011-05-29 03:47 · Score: 1
  
  that's the announced standby time for the macbook air :P. Just giving an example
4. Re:This would be so easy... by errandum · 2011-05-29 03:56 · Score: 1
  
  I'd say that the standard font size with the standard book would be an accurate measure.
  When apple says a computer lasts 7 hours it doesn't mean you'll be playing a game for 7 hours. Just that you'll do some mixed web browsing and document editing.
  Still way more exact than time. With every connectivity feature off and in busy months (less reading) I've used my kindle for over 2 months between charges :)
5. Re:This would be so easy... by TavisJohn · 2011-05-29 04:02 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, I think that "Page Turns" is a much better measure of battery life.
  I think that Amazon fudging their battery life estimates less than 24 hours after the new Nook's battery life is revealed is rather scammy on Amazon's part.
6. Re:This would be so easy... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 04:04 · Score: 0
  
  >It's like saying my Mac can stay on for 30 days and not mentioning the fact that it's on standby.
  That's fucking impressive. You could split your head open, be in a coma for three weeks, and when you're out of it, just open your mac and it's like "Where have you been bro?"
7. Re:This would be so easy... by Ephemeriis · 2011-05-29 04:39 · Score: 1
  
  Just say "it allows for 20000 page turns"
  Even that wouldn't be terribly accurate though...
  Leaving the device idle draws power, too. So I could do 10,000 pageturns, and leave my device idle for a couple days, and then only have enough power for 5,000 more pageturns.
  And if I'm using the wi-fi to download books, that number will go lower still. Or if I'm using 3G on the edge of network coverage, it'll be even lower.
  
  --
  "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
8. Re:This would be so easy... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 04:49 · Score: 0
  
  OBVIOUSLY they don't mean you'll be playing a game.
9. Re:This would be so easy... by errandum · 2011-05-29 11:07 · Score: 1
  
  Meh, that could easily be factored into the pageturns.
  Just assume all pageturns are consecutive. The kindle, at least, lets you turn off your wifi, so you can make those pre-conditions to your test
  (ex: test on a wifi-kindle with wifi off, and done during X number of days).
  Way more accurate than saying "it lasts 2 years" (if you don't touch it).
10. Re:This would be so easy... by celery+stalk · 2011-05-29 13:22 · Score: 1
  
  Would that be a Celeron processor EEE PC? I have a 701 and a 900, and if the battery is connected it'll be drained within a week, even if it's been sitting off in my bag the whole time. I just have to remember to take out the battery when I put it away, and I'm more likely to have a charge the next time I use it.
  On topic to the original discussion though, my 1st gen Kindle only runs out of battery when I leave it sitting around, maybe with 3G on, in between vacations (when I generally read). I've never run it dead though usage, which is good enough for me.
  
  --
  aaaand...whee!
11. Re:This would be so easy... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 14:17 · Score: 0
  
  Would that be a Celeron processor EEE PC? I have a 701 and a 900,
  Dingdingding! In fact I'm using my 701 (4G flash, 1G RAM) right now.
  How long does it take the Kindle to die? At least n units of time will do.
12. Re:This would be so easy... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-05-29 17:30 · Score: 1
  
  You'll get markedly less battery life if you use the software to enlarge or shrink the text.
  Why would you? Both native book formats (ePub and MobiPocket) are essentially zipped HTML; they don't have any "normal" text size for which there is a precomputed text flow. So, regardless of how you enlarge or shrink text, a page turn is going to take the same amount of power to process.
  Now, yes, you'll need more page turns to read through the book if you use larger text. But that's a different matter, and doesn't affect the validity of using page turn count as a measure for battery life for eInk readers.
13. Re:This would be so easy... by orangebox · 2011-05-29 18:57 · Score: 1
  
  I like the 'allows for about X amount of page turns' statement. Works for printers. But there are factors that doesn't seem to be considered.
  
  I don't have a Kindle or Nook, I have a BeBook, but my problem appears to be universal to these readers as well. If I leave my reader in standby mode, the battery is dead within a few days to a week. But if I use it every night for an hour or so, I can make a couple of weeks on the same charge.
14. Re:This would be so easy... by hedwards · 2011-05-30 04:41 · Score: 1
  
  I take it you haven't actually used one. Whenever you change the font size it takes a period of time to recalculate the pagination and if you're not using the default size it can't just use the pagination that's been given for the rest of the book. Which means that it has to recalculate whenever you open it and you end up with more battery use. Additionally, because the page displayed needs to correspond to the page in the book, the ereader has to calculate that as well.
15. Re:This would be so easy... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-05-30 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  I take it you haven't actually used one.
  
  I've owned 4 e-Ink readers all in all. I presently own a Kindle (3rd gen) and a Kindle DX.
  
  Whenever you change the font size it takes a period of time to recalculate the pagination
  
  Yes, but that is a one-time thing that happens when you change the setting (or open the book for the first time).
  
  if you're not using the default size it can't just use the pagination that's been given for the rest of the book
  There is no embedded pagination in either ePub or MobiPocket - it's really just HTML with a table of content. It's not tied to any particular device, font size etc - how could it possibly have any embedded pagination?
  When you first open a book on your device, it has to be paginated even with the "default" font size.
  
  Additionally, because the page displayed needs to correspond to the page in the book, the ereader has to calculate that as well.
  It needs to do that in any case, because visual page on an eInk reader, even with the "default" size, does not match the physical page in a paper book from which it was produced.
  Anyway, in case of Kindle, the reader tracks position in its own "page-independent" units (again, regardless of text size). And then books have mapping tables from those units to physical pages, if you choose to enable this feature. Setting text size to default won't affect this.
Jesus Christ. by Futile+Rhetoric · 2011-05-29 02:45 · Score: 4, Funny

Whoever came up with this comparison chart will be first up against a wall when the revolution comes:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/kindle/shasta/photos/image-battery-life.gif
1. Re:Jesus Christ. by Nimey · 2011-05-29 03:15 · Score: 1
  
  Two months' battery at half an hour of reading per day? Shyeah, who reads on that schedule?
  
  --
  Hail Eris, full of mischief...
  
  E pluribus sanguinem
2. Re:Jesus Christ. by similar_name · 2011-05-29 03:24 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Did you know the average human can lift their own body weight (on average about 150 lbs) but I can lift 15,000 lbs*
  
  *My strength assumes lifting one pound at a time over a one year period.
  
  By the way, that pic should be some kind of statistical goatse. It's disgusting.
3. Re:Jesus Christ. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 03:29 · Score: 0
  
  Month: less than eight days.
4. Re:Jesus Christ. by gl4ss · 2011-05-29 03:56 · Score: 1
  
  maybe it's also 15 minutes of reading per page.
  they'll create disappointed folk with that..
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
5. Re:Jesus Christ. by Surt · 2011-05-29 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  What's really depressing, to me, is that if I were a marketer, I could do better. For example, given the same data, I'd create a graph of '4-hour reading sessions per charge'. With the other devices getting 1,2,3, and kindle getting 8. (More than double! More than a week's worth of heavy reading on a single charge!). Let people extrapolate to their own reading habits.
  Or use 'marathon 12 hour reading sessions per charge'. Competitor devices get 0, 0, 0. Kindle gets 2!
  
  --
  "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
6. Re:Jesus Christ. by TheTyrannyOfForcedRe · 2011-05-29 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  Two months' battery at half an hour of reading per day? Shyeah, who reads on that schedule?
  Busy people. I read "on the can" and maybe a little before bed if I'm not to tired. I'm sure I average less than 30 minutes per day.
  
  --
  "Liechtenstein is the world's largest producer of sausage casings, potassium storage units, and false teeth."
7. Re:Jesus Christ. by fluch · 2011-05-29 09:36 · Score: 1
  
  Shyeah, who reads on that schedule?
  People who want to bost themself with how many books their device has loaded on but do not actually read books... ;-)
8. Re:Jesus Christ. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 10:27 · Score: 0
  
  Busy people. I read "on the can" and maybe a little before bed if I'm not to tired. I'm sure I average less than 30 minutes per day.
  
  The battery will still end up running flat after 2-3 weeks, even if you let it sit on the table doing nothing.
9. Re:Jesus Christ. by similar_name · 2011-05-29 11:33 · Score: 1
  
  Are you too busy to charge it more than once every two months? I don't think the comment was deriding people who read less than 30 minutes a day, only pointing out that 30 minutes a day between 2 month charges isn't really a meaningful schedule to anyone.
10. Re:Jesus Christ. by iggymanz · 2011-05-29 11:40 · Score: 1
  
  and I can do that 15,000 lbs. with my penis (assuming twenty 1 oz. lifts daily over 33 years)
Shorter the battery life the harder it must be. by GarryFre · 2011-05-29 02:48 · Score: 1

If they did some easy to understand common sense metric it might reveal how much the battery life sucks. Sounds to me like they ALL are trying to hide something.

--
www.Migrainesoft.com - Computer giving you a headache? We can fix that!
1. Re:Shorter the battery life the harder it must be. by Improv · 2011-05-29 04:04 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I only have a Kindle, but I have yet to come close to its battery limits. It seems to have a pretty good battery/power draw combination. I imagine the Nook is similar.
  This is, as far as I can tell, just a stupid pissing contest.
  
  --
  For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
2. Re:Shorter the battery life the harder it must be. by Surt · 2011-05-29 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed stupid, since both readers have long passed the charge required for a full day's worth of reading. I can't imagine who cares beyond that.
  
  --
  "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
3. Re:Shorter the battery life the harder it must be. by mspohr · 2011-05-29 04:33 · Score: 1
  
  I agree. My Kindle (WiFi only, no cell data) goes literally for months before needing a charge. I just don't worry about it. This is just a stupid testosterone fueled marketing war about something that is just not a factor for anyone.
  
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4. Re:Shorter the battery life the harder it must be. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 05:06 · Score: 0
  
  You would if you were going on a long trip in the middle of nowhere without power and wanted to do allot of reading every day! Base camp can be days away!
5. Re:Shorter the battery life the harder it must be. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 06:51 · Score: 0
  
  I have a first gen Nook and I have to agree. Easily lasts a day straight without a recharge (especially with the wireless off). I'm never away from a power outlet so long that it really matters.
  Same argument for the 3G. I'm never away from WiFi so long it matters and both devices have enough memory to store plenty of reading material between logins.
  My most important consideration is available content. When I bought the Nook I pulled together my near term reading list and compared availability between Amazon and B&N for the books I wanted. Nook won at the time.
  Now, with reader apps for Nook and Kindle on most platforms now not sure content even matters if you don't care about eInk.
6. Re:Shorter the battery life the harder it must be. by Surt · 2011-05-29 09:40 · Score: 1
  
  This cannot be a significant market share battleground.
  
  --
  "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
7. Re:Shorter the battery life the harder it must be. by dakameleon · 2011-05-29 12:18 · Score: 1
  
  The fact that these companies are fighting over this indicates that the issue is indeed a significant market share battle ground. Those who buy these things are those who like to read regularly, for long sessions - otherwise why not just buy the occasional book that never needs charging?
  It would frustrate me no end to have to charge it daily, or even more than once a week. As it is, my Kindle needs charging about every two weeks because of the amount of reading I do. The iPad my partner has wouldn't last for more than a day's reading, and so it isn't used for that.
  
  --
  Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
8. Re:Shorter the battery life the harder it must be. by Coren22 · 2011-05-31 08:44 · Score: 1
  
  I was recently concerned about my Nook Color (and Droid X) when my son joined Boy Scouts as we were camping without access to electricity. It turns out that they both last long enough to get through a normal weekend of usage. That is all that matters, though when I go to summer camp I will definitely need to charge both half way through. I was pleasantly surprised that the Nook Color last as long as it does, as it is a powered LCD screen, not a eInk, but the eInks all last insanely long, and make this pissing contest look stupid, they could put "a week +" and get the point across.
  
  --
  APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
My battery life figure for Kindle by cerberusss · 2011-05-29 02:53 · Score: 4, Informative

I brought my Kindle 3 to China. It's a long flight, so I read a lot in the airplane. A couple of days I read only 30 minutes, and for three days, I stayed in the hostel because I got sick of something I ate. So in those three days, I read up to 6 hours per day. All in all, the holiday lasted 12 days and I had about 25% charge left at the end of the holiday.

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FTC by StripedCow · 2011-05-29 03:05 · Score: 1

So, why do we have a consumer protection agency?
DO we even have a consumer protection agency? I'm getting the feeling lately we consumers are being pretty much abandoned, with Apple pulling all those dirty misleading walled-garden tricks, Google successfully using the tagline "do no evil", and now this.

--
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
1. Re:FTC by dwillden · 2011-05-29 04:00 · Score: 1
  
  How does a difference like this hurt you? The FTC is really there to prevent truly harmful practices. Bait and switch, dangerous items, devices that don't even begin to perform their advertised function.
  
  Since usage is entirely reliant on how you actually use it, not some perfect world usage, that is virtually unachievable in real life. Unless you can prove that the real battery life is substantially different under similar identical conditions as advertised, there is nothing to protect against this.
  
  --
  I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
2. Re:FTC by StripedCow · 2011-05-29 05:20 · Score: 1
  
  So using your logic, the police should be putting all their effort in chasing the truly big criminals, and they should stop handing out traffic tickets.
  
  --
  If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
3. Re:FTC by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 08:13 · Score: 0
  
  Well, when you advertise it with a graph like this claiming to get 2 months vs. a smartphones 5-10 hours (where one number is 1/48 duty cycle and disabled wireless, and the other is actual usage hours), it seems pretty damn deceptive. Where I'm from, we call that fraudulent advertising.
It's about Standby Time by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 03:08 · Score: 1

The big difference is obviously standby time. If the use pattern includes less standby time...the user pushing the next page button every minute continuously until the battery is dead...then the Nook gets far superior battery life. If the usage pattern includes more standby time...the user reads 30 minutes a day and leaves it off for a long time...the battery life is close to equal. The Nook has a far lower power page turn power cost than the Kindle. Either the standby power use dominates in the 30 minute-a-day scenario or the Kindle has superior standby time.
It doesn't make sense to spec the battery life on continuous use because no one does that. 30 minutes per day is far more accurate than continuous use. One could argue that 1 hour per day use is more accurate. Ironically, it's B&N that pushed the spec to 30 minutes rather than the 1 hour that Amazon chose. Basically, B&N tried to fool the less savvy buyers by appearing to have double the battery life in a different scenario. Amazon cried foul and pointed out that the battery life is equal in the exact scenario. B&N responds by saying they do really have double the battery life, but only in a ridiculous scenario.
I also greatly appreciate that Amazon makes the battery life with wireless on and wireless off easily available. B&N does not. My use model has wireless on all the time, so I care about that spec.
1. Re:It's about Standby Time by similar_name · 2011-05-29 03:35 · Score: 2
  
  It doesn't make sense to spec the battery life on continuous use because no one does that. 30 minutes per day is far more accurate than continuous use.
  We spec light bulbs that way even though the frequency they are turned on and off has a huge affect on their lifespan. Tires are measured in total miles. One tire manufacture doesn't claim to last twice as long and then put in the fine print that it assumes you will only stop and accelerate some number of times that makes their tires suddenly last longer.
  
  Spec continuous use and then let usage patterns derive from that. Don't start at usage patterns or you wind up in the marketing mess we're talking about.
2. Re:It's about Standby Time by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 04:05 · Score: 1
  
  When standby time for a lightbulb or a tire makes up a significant component of it's overall wear, then I would expect the way the spec is delivered to change. Excluding cars that aren't moved very much, tire wear is dominated by road use. Even then, it's highly dependent on road conditions, weather, and driving style. When spec'ing tire wear the dominant cause of wear (driving on them) was chosen. Some reasonable constraints were placed on the conditions of driving. Is it "marketing mess" that they didn't choose Sebastien Vettel to test the tire life or my grandmother for that matter?
  For an e-reader, the the typical use and dominant component of power draw is standby. That's proven by all the numbers published by everyone. Look at the numbers people are making up above. If you read 1 minute a day, you get X number of years of battery life. That's obviously not true. If you leave an e-reader in standby with wireless off and never touch it, it's dead in well under 3 months...probably pretty close to 2 months. The most useful non-usage pattern determined spec would be standby time and not number of page turns. The numbers given by Amazon and B&N are way more relevant than the totally dumb "number of page turns" spec. Quite frankly, that spec is more misleading than anything else.
Kindle battery life is pretty variable by Nimey · 2011-05-29 03:12 · Score: 2

You have at least two or three variables, depending:
1) Is your wireless/3G on? That drains more quickly than just reading does.
2) How many page-flips?
3) Do you have the fancy cover with the pop-out LED light that draws from the Kindle battery, and how much do you use it?
4) How much time spend actually reading, vs. in standby? Not a whole lot of power savings in standby, but the CPU's at least in deeper sleep.
With the light and the wireless on, I can drain a battery in several hours' continuous usage, or (more likely) two to three days on my normal schedule. I don't normally leave the wireless on, though. I understand Amazon claimed a month of usage without wireless or light, but that obviously depends on how many books you'll read in a month.

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1. Re:Kindle battery life is pretty variable by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-05-29 17:32 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, it seems that once you disable networking (both WiFi and 3G) on Kindle, its standby is really more like hibernate - I left it lying around for weeks in that state without significant effect on the battery.
Mines better than yours! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 03:13 · Score: 0

Well mines better than yours times infinity!
Android device for $139. by wonkavader · 2011-05-29 03:13 · Score: 2

This is an Android-based device for $139. It has an e-Ink display and a touch screen. I'm buying one the day after it's rooted.
Does anyone know enough about the touch-screen method this uses to tell me whether it can present two datapoints at a time? (Can the hardware be used to do multi-touch?)
1. Re:Android device for $139. by Ephemeriis · 2011-05-29 04:42 · Score: 1
  
  This is an Android-based device for $139. It has an e-Ink display and a touch screen. I'm buying one the day after it's rooted.
  Does anyone know enough about the touch-screen method this uses to tell me whether it can present two datapoints at a time? (Can the hardware be used to do multi-touch?)
  It is my understanding that the nook has already been rooted.
  http://nookdevs.com/
  
  --
  "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
2. Re:Android device for $139. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 05:11 · Score: 0
  
  e-ink doesn't have a fast response time. I'm not sure how well things like "pinch to zoom" and other multi-touch gestures will work with a screen that can't keep up.
3. Re:Android device for $139. by wonkavader · 2011-05-29 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  This kind of looks like a completely different device. If it were essentially the same, then that would indeed be fantastic, as it looks like putting whatever you want on it would already be essentially done to the point of being sealed up with a bow.
4. Re:Android device for $139. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 06:32 · Score: 0
  
  It uses ir, so as far as i know, no multi-touch.
5. Re:Android device for $139. by Ephemeriis · 2011-05-29 11:50 · Score: 1
  
  All the nooks are relatively similar - they're all running B&N's customized load of Android.
  Both the 1st edition nook and the nook color have been rooted. There's even a relatively friendly software-only root available.
  I assume that the new and improved nook will be rooted very quickly, if the current techniques don't already work on it.
  
  --
  "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
6. Re:Android device for $139. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-30 04:21 · Score: 0
  
  Agreed. Take a look at the PDF scrolling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEURVe02zAM
  Put wifi, a nice web browser, and multi-touch zoom on that thing, and it's an iPad killer.
  I've been looking at the hardware patents. They are a fascinating read. Search google patents for Neonode or Magnus Goertz. US Pat. App 12760568.
  The hardware would theoretically be capable of multi-touch. I do not know if the technology as implemented in Nook Simple Touch would be capable of it. If not implemented in the Nook Simple Touch, it is certainly being worked in the lab. I think we will see multi-touch with this technology in the near future.
not so hard by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 04:02 · Score: 0

Its not so hard. Take the battery's current capacity, devide it by the max current drain of the device. This will give a ballpark figure that is in hours, and is more reliable than any marketing figures for battery life. An individual can get an accurate figure for their personal use by writing down the times that they start and stop using the device (device turned off when not in use).
This # of days at x minutes per day is pure marketing BS! Take the minutes per day times the days, devide by 60 to get the total claimed run time in hours. Does it come cloise to battery capacity devided by max current drain?
Easy then : by aepervius · 2011-05-29 05:10 · Score: 1

"it only uses power when you turn the page (or connect to WIFI or 3G)."

Then provide the power consumption for 1000 pages turned , or for constant wifi usage. That way, you can do estimate.

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A half hour a day? by nurb432 · 2011-05-29 05:49 · Score: 1

Umm then why bother even getting a reader?

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---- Booth was a patriot ----
1. Re:A half hour a day? by TheTyrannyOfForcedRe · 2011-05-29 08:03 · Score: 2
  
  Umm then why bother even getting a reader?
  Some people have busy lives. Some people are into nonfiction that's difficult to digest.
  I plan to buy a reader when the right device comes along. The technical stuff that I like to read is best consumed in small chunks. Highly technical stuff can be very taxing. It's a whole different ballgame than fiction.
  
  --
  "Liechtenstein is the world's largest producer of sausage casings, potassium storage units, and false teeth."
Just tell us the mah by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-29 07:21 · Score: 0

Perhaps include metrics such as "4 page turns per minute averages 20mw". Don't try to trick us, give us real facts.
Strange... by fluch · 2011-05-29 09:34 · Score: 0

My books don't consume electricity. The oldest ones I have are physical prints which are more than 50 years old. Still working and looking splendit ... without electricity. I know, I might be a troll here .... but I never understood the reason for e-books....
1. Re:Strange... by WuphonsReach · 2011-05-29 10:33 · Score: 2
  
  My books don't consume electricity. The oldest ones I have are physical prints which are more than 50 years old. Still working and looking splendit ... without electricity. I know, I might be a troll here .... but I never understood the reason for e-books....
  
  Less physical clutter.
  
  Less cost to move all those books to a new place.
  
  The ability to resize the text on the fly to make it easier to read. This is probably the most desirable feature for me.
  
  Bring a dozen books on a trip, without having to find room for all of them in my luggage.
  
  For cover-to-cover reading (not random access, think fiction / novels) and not books with a lot of figures or that require color to explain things, it's very nice to read on. The Sony readers were very good at getting out of the way and letting you focus on the content.
  
  I still prefer physical hard copy for reference works.
  
  --
  Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
how about same standards? by Prikolist · 2011-05-29 12:57 · Score: 1

Clearly, they will not calculate in same scenarios or with same or with reasonable use figures. Maybe pageflips matters more, or standby time, or whether wi-fi is on, or some combination of them. Nook also claims it fits "thousands... of songs" in 8 GB (and decimal ones, at that) of space; an average song in my music library is about 9MB (and that's with a lot of old low-bitrate stuff) so that doesn't quite add up either. Pretty sure their amount of books fitting in memory is based on like fifty-page text files.
What we really want to see if a comparison, done under EXACTLY same conditions, by an independent source, run on all the different devices. It can be multiple tests, i.e. separately done pageflips and continuous use and standby and some sort of use scenario. The important part is that the measurements are done in same way for the results to be comparable, and then from there you can estimate which one works better for you. This is a good chance for Wired or CNet or PCMag or gizmodo or any of scores of others to step in - if you trust them to be independent of course.

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