Slashdot Mirror
School District Hit With New Mac Spying Lawsuit
CWmike writes "A former student at a suburban Philadelphia high school has sued his school district for allegedly spying on him and his family using a school-issued Mac laptop, according to court documents. The Lower Merion School District of Ardmore, Pa. was first sued in February 2010 by another student using similar charges. That case, dubbed 'Spygate' in some reports, was settled last October when Lower Merion agreed to pay Blake Robbins $175,000 and cover $425,000 in court costs. On Monday, Joshua Levin, a 2009 graduate of Herriton High, charged the district with violating his civil rights and privacy by remotely activating the notebook's built-in camera to take photographs and screenshots. On Wednesday, Lower Merion spokesman Doug Young called Levin's lawsuit 'solely motivated by monetary interests and a complete waste of the taxpayer's dollars.' Levin begged to differ. According to his lawsuit, Lower Merion used his laptop to take more than 8,000 photographs and screenshots between September 2008 and March 2009. A district report uncovered more than 30,000 photographs and 27,000 screenshots taken. Last June, lawyers made photos and screenshots available for viewing by the 76 affected students. 'Plaintiff opted to view the recovered images, and was shocked, humiliated and severely emotionally distressed at what he saw,' Levin's lawsuit stated."
Did he never notice the webcam light turning on? It is kind of hard to miss on all the Mac laptops I have seen.
?
If you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. In this post-9/11 world, you have to relinquish some of your rights to live more safely. Think of the children.
Lube optional
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
Masters gonna bate
Black electrical tape over the camera would be hard to notice and keep the perverts on the IT staff out.
I'm an adult (no really, I am) and even I sometimes use my laptops without being, er, fully ready to meet the public, as it were*.
Unless I miss my guess, a whole lot of these images would probably fall under the 'kiddie porn' category. I didn't RTFA, did they mention that in there? That bumps this issue up to a criminal court at least...even if someone is reviewing the images as they come in and 'deleting' the improper ones (wouldn't PedoBear love that job!), they've still been created, and viewed.
*Of course I also have a little piece of electrical tape over each and every one of my laptop webcams. Try to hack that!
"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
Funny that Lower Merion is about 30 minutes from where I grew up and my former high school was violating privacy as well through technology. According to reports I am hearing from my family and friend who live in the area there school employees making fake Facebook accounts to befriend students to look for incriminating photos. It seems that many schools forgot that they are there to teach the students and think it is there job to police and discipline them for their activities outside of the classroom. As technology grows so will the number of those who abuse it.
Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.
So if they were to 'accidentally' take a picture when a kid was changing, couldn't the school district be charged with possession of child porn? If the pictures were taken at random, there is a good chance that happened on at least one of the laptops...
Does it seem to anyone else that they're trying to shift blame onto the IT folks?
While I know nothing about the details of the report, or really the case beyond what has surfaced on Slashdot.... I find it hard to believe that the IT folks would be the ones directing which students to take pictures of, it seems that this direction would come from their superiors, the administration.
He's motivated by money? Well, yeah, but he's also right and I imagine the school district will be cutting another cheque. His motivation for filing the suit doesn't matter - all that matters is whether or not he's right and, as has been made clear, odds are very good that he is.
Why do you feel this case is wrong? Suing the hell out of the people who do these things is the only effective way to discourage others, if the state isn't going to imprison those responsible.
This doesn't seem like the kind of thing that should be solved by monetary re-imbursment.
There should be a federal investigation, and everyone who decided to spy on school kids, as well as everyone who was aware this was going on but didn't report it to the police, should be charged and possibly sent to prison.
Whenever you get something for free, distrust it. Even if it's from someone you would trust otherwise.
Your privacy is yours to defend. Everyone else is trying to limit it. Companies, governments, hell, I even know parents who think it's a good idea to spy on their kids all the time. Hey, do you know where your kids are now?
My hope is, now that teenagers finally get to feel what level of blatant trespassing on privacy is happening, we might eventually get a generation that starts to oppose the development. It might take longer than "Generation Facebook", but I hope our powers that are do what they usually do: They overdo it to the point where people start to fight back.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
clarify privacy laws.
Really? You actually need to clarify that it's an invasion to take clandestine pics inside someone's home? Christ, it'd be less of an invasion if they'd sent a photographer to shoot through the curtains at night!
"lawsuit 'solely motivated by monetary interests "
A lawsuit done for monetary interests? Who ever heard of this?
Let me get this straight. School district staff turn on webcams and start taking pictures and screenshots, apparently 30,000 images worth, without authorization by parents (these are minors, they have no right, even if they had been told, to sign off on this spying scheme). You're attitude is that this is "money grabbing". If it was my kids, not only would I want a pile of cash to teach the school board a lesson, I'd want the weirdos tried in criminal court.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I'm with you, except I would like to see the case filed against individuals in the district:
Principal of the school
everyone on the school board
head of IT
school superintendent.
All of those individuals *had* to know what was going on, and any one of them could have *stopped* it cold. They are the culpable ones and should face both civil and criminal charges. They can not claim I was following orders, because they are the ones that make the orders.
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
Then the school should not be involved. The school has no reason to monitor students when they are AT HOME. That is their PARENTS JOB!
The only time that remotely activated we bcams, screen shots and GPS should be used... Is if the machine is reported stolen, lost, or is not turned in when the school requests it. Then ONLY under the authority of the POLICE who should be the only ones involved in a machine recovery.
The FBI did investigate and chose to not press any charges, since they didn't have "criminal intent", which is of course bullshit. They broke the law, and there are penalties for illegal wiretapping, both with and without criminal intent.
Generally I'd agree with you if we'd be talking about another "stupid person" doing something "stupid" that got someone else some money. Like repeating the McD coffee cup stunt or sticking another poodle in the microwave. This is, though, exactly the same issue, exactly the same offense and, well, please explain to me why only the first to discover some crime against him which was perpetrated against hundreds if not thousands should be allowed to get compensation. Should only the researcher that found out about Sony's rootkit get compensated while every other damaged customer should go home empty handed, maybe with the expense of having an expert fixing his computer?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Now all they need is for any of these webcam pictures taken to contain an undressed minor. It's already very possible, since they have no idea what will be on the other end when they enable it. They should be held just as accountable for 'child porn' if any such images do exist in their stored data.
Whoever modded you "troll" is an idiot.
No surprise there. I looked at some of my comment mods and it alternated between "funny" and "troll" for quite some time. Once it hits "+4 funny" the troll mods stop. Maybe clue starts to hit at that level: "Oh, 4 people thought this is funny. Maybe I should read it again and look for irony markers." Just odd that that doesn't happen at "+2 funny" already. I suggest a new mod-point: "+-0 I don't get it". It doesn't mod it up or down, but gets rid of a mod point.
In this case, blaming it on IT might be accurate. The photos were apparently snapped by anti-theft software LANRev, now rebranded as Absolute Manage. The LANRev feature set has been permanently dropped from the product line in response to these lawsuits.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
On Wednesday, Lower Merion spokesman Doug Young called Levin's lawsuit 'solely motivated by monetary interests and a complete waste of the taxpayer's dollars.'
I'm appalled by the sheer lack of concern of the privacy issue raised by this lawsuit, and the respect for students indicated by this official statement. I'd start a campaign to vote out the current admin if my children were given this kind of treatment.
Sue em into the Stone Age!!!!!!
They can not claim I was following orders, because they are the ones that make the orders.
But they can claim that the student is pursuing this just for the money:
"Today, Lower Merion spokesman Doug Young called Levin's lawsuit 'solely motivated by monetary interests and a complete waste of the taxpayer's dollars.'"
These people need personal consequences, otherwise they'll use their position to pitch this as a We-the-taxpayers versus greedy student story.
Long term fix: Privacy laws with legal consequences and contractual consequences such as demotions, loss of tenure, income, or job.
Short term fix: Was the student underage? In his bed room? Not fully dressed? - Just saying.
After reading the summary, I'm not exactly sure what I find more disturbing...
The notion of spying done by a school that was perceived as "incomprehensible" by the parents that turned out to be absolutely true, or looking at a figure of almost half a million dollars payed out in "court costs", well over double the amount paid to the actual victim. I'd love to hear a rational and sensible explanation for those extortionist rates.
And we wonder why our insurance rates are so high, and why we are forced to carry many different types of insurance...go figure.
We can talk all day long about "fair" and "unfair" and on and on and never arrive at a conclusion. But "childhood" is a transitory state. The purpose of teaching children is to teach them to be good, useful people when they become adults. I think this amount of truth is indisputable.
But by teaching them to accept being spied upon and to have no "expectation of privacy" or anything along these lines, what are we breeding? It is known that it is a human need to have privacy and a sense of self and in every case, the result is rebellion or some other undesirable result. We tend to think things like "it's our right to know" but is it our right to do that kind of psychological damage to these developing minds?
In addition to teaching them math, language, science and history, we should also be teaching them about the world they are growing into and how to cope with it and what to expect from it. Sure, students shouldn't be doing things with school equipment that it was not intended for, but when the cost of having it (was it optional?) removes privacy and even dignity of the students AND their unsuspecting families, it is clear someone's sense of authority has gone beyond its boundaries. And once again, what does this say to the young mind?
We keep seeing stories of how schools interfere with the private lives and dealings of students. There are and should be limits which at least mirror those we can expect to see in the work place. For example, "sexual harassment" can and does extend beyond the walls of the office building as does anything that creates a hostile work environment. Similarly, if a student harasses another student, it should be actionable by the school in some way. However, when it comes to things like "being critical of leadership" we need to treat school officials as if they were politicians in office and so when someone makes a mock-up web site for their principal and makes all sorts of "parody" types of claims, that sort of free speech needs to be protected in the same way. But these school leaders end up acting like tyrants and dictators or in ways that are inconsistent with our governmental and judicial ideals. That simply needs to stop.
In the end "think of the children" because they are the adults of tomorrow. And you know what? Think of YOURSELF because those young bastards will be taking care of us in one way or another and the quality of that care depends largely on how well we take care of them now!
For handing a child a camera that secretly allows them to take pictures remotely? Creepy as hell, yes, but I'm not sure there's a law being broken. they should definitely be canned.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
From the blurb:
"Lower Merion agreed to pay Blake Robbins $175,000 and cover $425,000 in court costs."
So... an egregious breach of trust has occurred. Who gets paid?
-Eldurbarn
Anyone who thinks that it's OK to spy on little kids in their homes is a danger to society. The question is whether any laws were broken. Regardless, all involved should be looking for new jobs. In this economy, good luck with that losers.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Losing money is the only thing that makes administrators think twice before doing this kind of thing, especially since they do not have to worry about being held criminally liable. If there are no repercussions for their actions they have no reason to change their behavior.
Yep, the 1984 ad was attacking conformity, now Apple has a one size fits all approach for everyone.
If one of us sneaked a camera into someone's home and took pictures, I guarantee we would go to prison for it. One of our civilizations greatest failings is the way our legal system treats kids. In the southern US it is still legal for schools to sexually assault their students. The Supreme Court's answer is always that "the Constitution does apply but..." followed by some senile hand-waving to excuse forced strip searches, beatings or any other gross violation of human rights the school wants. The reality is our legal system treats children like property. Kids would have more rights if they were prisoners.
You need to beggar the entire staff as individuals, make sure they are penniless, jobless, and homeless before you're done!
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
The School Board in my area changed their policy to specifically say that
"Students are advised that many District technology resources, including but not limited to laptops and desktops, may contain input systems such as web cameras and microphones which can be remotely controlled to turn them on and off. The District will not utilize any such input systems remotely unless consistent with the law."
Speaking of which, they should file an additional lawsuit against the district attorney for failing to prosecute.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
So ... you're money grabbing as well. Thats all your post says.
If he wanted to 'fix the problem' he would be going after individuals that did it, not the school board, which will just pay for the fines with tax payer money, essentially all that happens in this lawsuit is that my taxes end up paying for you to get some money and make some lawyers a fortune because you're too stupid and/or greedy to treat the problem. Instead you want 'a pile of cash to teach the school board a lesson' ... the school board isn't a live, it will learn no lesson, it has no mind, and the people who you actually want to get taught a lesson will at worst, have to find a new job, which they'll probably even get a good reference for.
So again I state, all your post proves is that you too are a money grabbing douche using this as an excuse to make a quick buck, just like this student and his family.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Yep, the 1984 ad was attacking conformity, now Apple has a one size fits all approach for everyone.
Don't be absurd. At the moment Apple has:
Sure, they are limited, but they are hardly one-size-fits-all, more like few-sizes-fit-all.
Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
That school sure does care about the students!! Maybe the students can show their gratitude by giving the school a brand new copy of OSX! They could even get rid of any spyware that might be slowing the computer down. I'm sure the school would love that :)
On Wednesday, Lower Merion spokesman Doug Young called Levin's lawsuit 'solely motivated by monetary interests and a complete waste of the taxpayer's dollars.'
So the school district is completely unrepentant to the point they don't even acknowledge they might have caused harm or distress. Got it! I hope the court notes their lack of repentance when it sets punitive damages.
So again I state, all your post proves is that you too are a money grabbing douche using this as an excuse to make a quick buck, just like this student and his family.
Irrelevant. There need to be consequences. Money-grubbing or not, it's how the system works and it's the only recourse these people have. And the fact is, they won't get all that much money: there's not that much to go around and what is there, most will go to the lawyers. On both sides.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I agree that he shouldn't get a dime for this, but it's the *only* way that the people violating our rights will be punished. If the criminal system worked at all, then this should be thrown out. But since the criminal system doesn't punish organized crime like this, it's up to frivolous lawsuits to be the *only* means to punish the guilty.
Learn to love Alaska
The individuals are shielded enough and the board controls the people who did this. The board is the right people to sue because you always sue the money. The "right" thing is for everyone involved to have been criminally prosecuted. Short of that, he's doing the next best thing. Regardless of his motivation, it's the closest to justice anyone will ever get in this case.
Learn to love Alaska
I really hope criminal charges are files against these assholes.
And since there was undoubtedly more than one person involved, could easily include federal conspiracy charges.
Keeping these assholes in jail for a long time would be another good used of tax payer dollars.
Why shouldn't he get a dime? He was wronged. In our society, the only compensation you can exact from someone who wrongs you is money. If I were this kid, I might agree to having everyone involved stripped naked, marched through town, and barred from ever holding a position where they can do something like that again, but that remedy is not available.
You can't blame the kid for suing for money. That's all he CAN sue for. It's completely unreasonable to tell the kid that he has no remedy because the nut jobs who did this are working for the taxpayers, but if you or I did it, he COULD sue us for money and that'd be totally ok.
This kid is not the bad guy.
"That report laid most of the blame on the district's IT staff for the excessive photo taking using its LANrev software."
Excessive? Adults taking any number of photos of teenagers alone in their bedrooms without their knowledge is acceptable? How is this different than the school sitting outside their room with a camera? How often was the IT staff logging in from home and "reviewing" the photos? How many photos were transferred to USB sticks? Has ANYONE been fired yet?
He was wronged.
He was wronged, but not harmed. Feigning distress to justify a large award doesn't count. Hell, I bet he got off on the idea of that cute secretary checking him out in his boxers... (or maybe he was harmed because she then saw him picking his nose).
You can't blame the kid for suing for money.
I didn't. What did I say that gave you that impression? With the system as it is now, him and those like him are the only way the guilty will be punished.
Learn to love Alaska
Every person on that board will go down in history as the guys who got the district sued, screwing over the next several years of already-tight budgets. Getting a job in education again will involve a heck of a lot of smooth talking.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Actually, I'd place good bets the real reason they stripped that feature out of Absolute Manage is that now they can make you buy two solutions instead of one to achieve the same task! (Hint: Absolute also makes LoJack for Laptops, which does exactly what the removed feature in Absolute Manage did. Nothing to do with lawsuits).
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
They have a right to say that. It doesn't have to be true, they're just hoping the plaintiff will say "Oh I see, well nevermind then" and back off.
It's like how you see those signs on trucks that say "Not responsible for objects coming off the road." Or signs in parking lots saying "Not responsible for any damage to your vehicle." Or at the park "Not responsible for any missing or stolen items."
They want you to believe that so you don't sue. When honestly it's up to the judge to determine if they are responsible or not. But if they can bluff you into not asking, bravo for them.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
"was shocked, humiliated and severely emotionally distressed at what he saw"
Talk about regret.... Maybe they caught photos of him cross dressing or playing with his dolls.... But he must really be embarrassed to sue for the statement above.
these are minors, they have no right, even if they had been told, to sign off on this spying scheme
I don't think they even lend out TEXT BOOKS without parental agreement of responsibility for any damages and ugly brown paper bag covers.
You can bet your ass the parents had to sign _something_. Were they told about this monitoring, who knows, neither of us read the article I'm guessing.
I'm good at that.
There is a simple question: is there ANY evidence that the laptop was reported as stolen?
If not, we are talking about about a gross invasion of privacy, and the school deserves a serious punishment. However, I have a problem with a school losing this sort of money which is needed for education, so maybe another charge should be levied. Maybe lock up the directors, or make the jerk who ran the app without any evidence of theft clean the toilets for a year - including that of the student's home :-).
Whatever the result - there is no doubt we are talking about something that is 100% not right.. If it isn't illegal it *should* be..
Insert
Wow, this students sounds like a total badass. Basically someone you shouldn`t mess with, especially not in a way that is illegal and especially not if you are gonna get caught.
The more the school is aware of the litigious nature of its students, the more you can ask if they shouldn`t have thought about this beforehand. And the fact that this public school goes on a personal attack against one of its former students suggest that they just might know they don't have much of a case on the merits.
Since this official statement from the official spokesman explicitly excludes all motivations besides money (Like say thinking schools spying on kids webcams being creepy and should be deterred) I would trow in a defamation suit just to make the point. In this case victims being 90% motivated by money and 10% by being upset about being spied upon by people they were supposed to be able to trust would the least despicable thing that happened.
Somebody HAD something to hide??
Wow...didn't think, I'd hear that in my lifetime...
But then, for 175k probably a lot of us might (pretend) to have had something to hide. So they can post about it in excruciating detail on Facebook and write plain-text sms and e-mails about everything they were doing, they didn't want anyone to know about.
from the second article:
WTF?
What the fuck?
The parent of these kids are gonna get a list of dates and times for which their kids refuse to give them their illegal surveillance pictures? If these kids dont want illegal surveillance pictures mailed to their parents they have to "discus" it with a judge? What will the rules of these "discussions" be? Point counter point with a 20 minute rebuttal? What is there to discus? What possible counter argument could there be for "these are illegal surveillance pictures of my private life piss off you cranky old fool"?
How would this judge react if he got a letter in the mail saying "You have an opportunity to review the illegal surveillance pictures of you before we send them to your wife and if there is any pictures you want withhold just drop by at any convenient time and we can discuss terms... but we are still gonna send her a letter saying these pictures exist though"
If older teens consciously choose to pose for sexting its "kids these days are going crazy" but when the supposedly adult school staff and judges pull these crazy spying and blackmailing stunts its just okay?
Over the years, how much wiretapping evidence of organized criminal adults with money for proper lawyers looking out for their interest and their interest alone has this judge thrown out for being collected illegally? Could anyone imagine a letter like this being send to Tony Soprano?
How many times have US politicans used taxdollar to hire rent-a-geek to have hard drives with official documents wiped? How long did it take the CIA to decide to destroy videos of its torture sessions despite the videos having been subpoenad not just by innocent torture victims but by the 9/11 commission looking for evidence? When the wiretapping office of telecom Italia collected a terabyte of incriminating evidence as part of its own for-profit blackmail and intelligence operation on the countries corrupt and powerful, how many seconds did it take people to decide the database should be destroyed?
It would be weird if these kids didn`t end up living a life without computers and cell-phones. Odds are the lawyers will claim lost income from that as damages and keep the money, or at least the part that doesn`t end up in the pockets of the parents.
Check to see if your Company name is available http://bit.ly/m2IHF4
1. Yes there was "spy cam" software 2. Yes, it has been removed from all equipment during the last refresh (summer 2010) 3. The spy cam photos were taken on laptops that were ILLEGALLY REMOVED FROM THE SCHOOL in an attempt to recover them, so this is no different than the people who post pictures from their Macs of the people who stole them. 4. The PARENTS of the children involved refused to pay the insurance on the laptops that most parents do pay (50USD per school year), so the children were not supposed to remove the laptops from school.They did anyway My son has one of these laptops, my daughter will next year, they have the option of taping over the cam anytime they want to cover it.
~corporate tool, but employed~
... with a piece of tape when I am not using it.
You can also open up the laptop and physically disconnect the camera and internal microphone.
Such behavior used to be considered paranoid, now it's necessary.
Looks like the taxpayers are taking the hit, while those responsible stay out of trouble. This warrants a criminal prosecution, not a monetary compensation. "The FBI did investigate and chose to not press any charges" -- FBI should not decide if the party is guilty, that's what the courts are for -- and looks like the court reached the opposite conclusion.
"was shocked, humiliated and severely emotionally distressed at what he saw"
Talk about regret.... Maybe they caught photos of him cross dressing or playing with his dolls.... But he must really be embarrassed to sue for the statement above.
Or maybe the kid would like to run for office or be president of a large company, and would rather not have nekkid pictures of himself floating around the internet, waiting for an opportune moment to resurface.
If they didn't want the students taking the laptop home, the could have just confiscated if from them while they were at school, since they were required to have it in class every day. If they thought they were taking it home, and wanted to catch them in the act, they could have just stood outside the door as they were walking out. If the student wasn't returning it to the school, they could have sent the cops over to their house with a warrant. Spying on them in the privacy of their home was in no way necessary nor acceptable.
Furthermore, when this was investigated, they found photographs of students who had paid the fee, and emails between the administrators and IT showing that they were using it for entertainment. One of the quotes was along the lines of "This is so fun. It's like our own private soap opera". Those administrators and IT personal should have been fired and should be sued individually (not just the district), if not facing criminal charges.
Eh, from what I have seen of the internet, if he runs for office then there will be nekkid pictures on the internet eventually, even if they're faked.
All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents