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A Plea For Game Devs To Aim Higher

A recent article written by Mike Acton of Insomniac Games challenges video game developers to broaden their ambitions and fight to get back to their rebellious roots. Quoting: "[W]hy is it that game developers are beginning to drown in a culture of fear, or more specifically, a fear of change? Is it because the gaming world has gone too corporate and is no longer exclusive to small teams of genius misfits and creative underdogs? Is it because the demographics of game players—once made up almost exclusively of teen boys—has widened to include nearly everyone from 5-50? There are people who would deny that it’s fear of change that keeps them where they are. There are those that are content with the status quo because they believe that they have a formula 'that works' and there’s no good reason to risk a major change when they already successful with what they’re doing. ... Game developers are, at their heart, futurists and this is what they need to do now—put themselves ahead of the times so that they can surpass the stale leadership and old models that are holding them back"

179 comments

  1. Film industry by fbjon · · Score: 1

    Formulaic... like the film industry has been numerous times in the past (and perhaps today)? This sort of thing breaks down as soon as the audience gets bored of it.

    --
    True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    1. Re:Film industry by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>This sort of thing breaks down as soon as the audience gets bored of it.

      Indeed... but Rockstar has been making a killing at repeating the GTA formula (four times, and then again in the old west and again in the 1950s) even though most people get only about halfway through their games before they get bored. I beat Red Dead Redemption, but even I was feeling the drag as they kept going, "Oh, but just one more mission, Marsten!!" over and over.

      My wife wanted me to pick up LA Noire today, but I just couldn't summon the excitement any more. But it's leading sales for this year...

    2. Re:Film industry by somersault · · Score: 1

      Much more than four times if you count Vice City, San Andreas and the various Stories games and expansion packs.

      I still love the open world format more than linear games :)

      You should try Saints Row 2 (I never actually played the original as I just assumed it was a cheap rip-off of GTA, but it seems I was wrong). It's a lot like the GTA 3 series, but with more variety in the mission types, plenty of humour, and 3 main plot lines. The co-op play is also good fun.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    3. Re:Film industry by White+Flame · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, it's the same problem as the film industry: Increased budgets means more money is at risk, meaning you're only allowed to play it safe.

      When you're playing with your own money, you can do whatever you want, either in independent films or independent games, and only need to sell to customers, who desire innovation and fun. If you need to finance your project externally, you need to sell your not-yet-started project to your prospective backers, who desire monetary returns with reduced risks.

    4. Re:Film industry by Canazza · · Score: 1

      I think he was counting VC and SA since GTA and GTA 2 weren't Rockstar, they were DMA at the time, and the formula was much simpler and quite different. For example, there were no cutscenes in GTA1 and 2 (besides the end-of-city screens), they were both top-down 2.5D and took place entirely out doors. Most of the missions were driving missions and there was little or no gunplay in them. Infact, guns generally were used in pedestrian slaughter, something that GTA 3 onwards really downplayed.

      the 4 games he's talking about are GTA 3, VS, SA and GTA IV. The X-City Stories series and GTA Advance also count. Although GTA Advance was closer to GTA 1 than any of the others it still kept closer to the GTA 3 formula, just in 2D, and I've not played the City-Stories series but I understand that they're similar in gameplay to the main GTA 3 series.

      Then you have the GTA IV DLC, of which I believe there were 3.

      They are milking it, it's quite obvious. Rockstar stopped making other games when they realised what a cash cow GTA is.

      Rockstar are the Pulp Fiction (the genre, not the film) of the Games Industry. Churning out stories with mass appeal and satisfying gameplay. I've played through every GTA game and enjoyed each one on it's own merits (although SA's whole Gansta vibe at the start was a bit off-putting, it thankfully deconstructed it in the second act) and for all GTA IVs annoyances (NIIIKO IT IS YOUR COUSSIINNN LETS GO BOWLING!) I still enjoyed it and played it start to finish without feeling like it was a chore.

      They're not literary greats, but they work, I enjoy them and that's all I can ask of them.

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    5. Re:Film industry by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But to be fair a lot of the "GTA style" games isn't about actually doing the missions but just seriously fucking off. One of my absolute favorite games is Just Cause II, which if you have never played it brings "just fucking off" to the height of crazy. You have this crazy hookshot grapple hook thing that lets you do crazy shit like tie a bad guy to the bumper of a chopper and use him for a fricking wrecking ball, tie two cars together while going 100 miles an hour on top of a third, totally crazy shit. Frankly I quit giving a shit about the story after like the third mission because I was having too much fun going nuts to really care.

      If anyone here watches Zero Punctuation old Yahtzee pointed something out that is really wrong that I hadn't even noticed before. He said basically "we are awash in a sea of brown chest high walls surrounded by thick neck marine types" and frankly he is dead on! Too many of these developers seem to forget that ultimately its a game and games are supposed to be fun not a dragging your ass around while following the numbers snoozefest. I swear if I see one more WWII shooter or one more game featuring thick neck marines with convenient chest high walls I'm gonna scream!

      Ultimately it wouldn't be so bad if games ripped off one another if they just did like Just Cause II and remembered that games are supposed to be fun. If they would have made the game in ANY way realistic it would have been the uber suck. After playing Stalker I already know how I would do in a real war, very very badly. So how about make it fun! Give me AI that is a challenge without obvious cheating, like how EA shooters will have grunts that can instantly spot you even when you are behind cover and snipe you from 1000 yards away with a pistol while taking more rounds than the T-800, give me something to shoot other than the same damned weapons everybody else has, like the sneaky crossbow in NOLF II, or even the "angry kitty" bomb! Who cares if that "would never happen in real life" because it ISN'T REAL LIFE it is a fricking game!

      You don't have to give us five legged kittens riding purple ponies devs, just quit rehashing the same old shit, okay?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    6. Re:Film industry by somersault · · Score: 1

      They didn't stop making other games. Apart from Manhunt (and perhaps Bully, which I haven't played), they just like making very open, freeform games. Manhunt sucked, and I am not a big fan of Midnight Club compared to say Burnout Paradise (though I didn't give it much of a chance), but the other games are all great fun:

      Notable games published
      Grand Theft Auto series (1997–present)
      Midnight Club series (2000–present)
      Max Payne series (2001–present)
      Manhunt series (2003–2007)
      Red Dead series (2004-2010)
      Bully (2006)
      L.A. Noire (2011)

      Red Dead Redemption has quite a different feel to it. It's very atmospheric, and obviously the setting is completely different, being rural instead of city based. I love it. I also love the GTA style as you say. GTA is like modern comedy gangster flicks like Lock Stock, RDR is like a western, and I'm presuming LA Noire will be like Noir films, obviously - though I plan on waiting until the price comes down a bit before getting it, and I have plenty of other things to play in the meantime.

      I felt GTA IV was milking it somewhat, but from GTA 3 through to San Andreas, they were adding new gameplay concepts and expanding the capability of the game engine. GTA IV felt like a step backwards. It looked more realistic, but was less fun, in part due to people texting you all the time. I started feeling like it was a chore (because I wanted all the perks from keeping your friends happy, though I probably didn't really need them) and never finished it.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    7. Re:Film industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Uh, Rockstar just put out LA Noire, a game that is pretty much unlike any other game ever made and has limited mass appeal. And neither of their two upcoming games follows the GTA formula. And it's not like they were ever like Activision, cranking out a new Tony Hawk/Guitar Hero/Call of Duty every year. They spent extensive dev time on every game, pushed the limits of every console, expanded the formula every generation. I don't even really like Rockstar games that much, but your criticism is pretty unfounded.

    8. Re:Film industry by Xest · · Score: 2

      It's so short sighted though. This quote from the summary just makes me shake my head:

      "There are those that are content with the status quo because they believe that they have a formula 'that works' and thereâ(TM)s no good reason to risk a major change when they already successful with what theyâ(TM)re doing."

      Isn't this the same industry that's already whining about decreasing revenues and AAA studios whining that innovative new mobile games are a danger to them?

      I don't understand how on one hand they can use the excuse that the formula works and they're succesful and the on the other whine about how they're struggling, complain for tax breaks, impose DRM to prevent second hand sales and so forth.

      If anything it seems clear their model isn't working from the amount they bitch and moan. Either way they can't have it both ways- claim everything is rosy when consumers say they want something new, and claim these are dark days when they want more profits.

    9. Re:Film industry by heathen_01 · · Score: 1

      It sounds like you're only really complaining about games on rails, graphical stories where you click next to continue. I don't have a problem with "realistic" games, thick neck marines or chest high walls. However I do have a problem when I don't get to choose which chest high walls I get to use however.

    10. Re:Film industry by archen · · Score: 2

      It's a cycle that's in a lot of industries. You take a circle of influence with the hardcore dedicated at the center, and people with a passing interest at the edges. Those at the fringes easily tire and drop away and it looks like a drop in sales. Instead of trying to better expand that market, their logic is that they need to do more of what made them successful and further concentrate on that thing. From that point it can go into a death spiral with more and more people losing interest each iteration, and they just keep pumping out the same stuff. The music industry seems to struggle the most with it until they stumble on something "new" which restarts the whole thing. TV, comic books and probably the current state of anime also come to mind.

      Passing the blame has nothing to do with it other than showing a symptom of an industry that doesn't know what to do (like something different).

    11. Re:Film industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that you mention it, I wonder why Postal 2 never caught on.

    12. Re:Film industry by Schadrach · · Score: 1

      Every now and then you get some real gems out of pulp fiction though -- for example Robert E. Howard and H.P. Lovecraft were both published in pulp magazines of the day. As in the original Conan tales were pulp fiction, as was all of H.P.L.'s work.

      As for Rockstar games, Saint's Row 2 basically ruined GTAIV for me. GTA4 tried to be too "realistic" for it's own good. SR2 didn't. That, and of course your character in SR2 was a psychopathic badass, which dovetails well with how most people *actually* play GTA-style sandbox games.

    13. Re:Film industry by One+Monkey · · Score: 1

      Bully is one of my favourite games ever. And like most things I like it is almost entirely forgotten.

      --
      www.nodicerpg.com - Some RP stuff for free, some not so for free, but still cheap.
    14. Re:Film industry by Gulthek · · Score: 1

      I played GTA4 in character. I tried to do the right thing, drive by the rules, and not kill anyone. My Niko had already seen enough of war and bloodshed, but it was all he knew. He tried to make a change going to NYC, but did not have the will to break free of the dominating personalities surrounding him.

      This style of play made some of the missions where you had to escape the police much more exciting.

    15. Re:Film industry by morari · · Score: 1

      No, it breaks down as soon as filmmakers get bored of it. The audience of both mediums are general drones, interested in consuming only what is popular. The difference in the two mediums being that anyone can grab a camera nowadays and inexpensively make a good film if they have the motivation to do so. It'll play the same as any Hollywood film. The same cannot be said about videogames. The days of small garage-based teams making Doom and Quake are long gone. The indie developers have a lot to offer, but it's generally not competing on the same level... even if it is sometimes outright better. Instead you get quirky genres. Of course, maybe what we need are even quirkier genres than that? :)

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    16. Re:Film industry by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      The problem is it is too damned predictable and I'll give you some examples: if the game is set in modern times, you will get the MP5, the M16, The AK47, and for a sniper either the 50 or the Draganov. If it is WWII you will get the Garand, the MP40, the 1911, the Tommy gun, the k98. Yawn. All while the entire battlefield just so happens to have chest high walls, you know just for decor. Yawn.

      Meanwhile they talk about "realism" yet I can be standing there with a fucking bazooka and I STILL CAN'T BLOW A FUCKING WOODEN DOOR DOWN! WTF? It is the stupid ass "game logic' bullshit that drives me up a damned wall! And surely to god those aren't the only weapons in the history of war, yes? Surely there are other weapons besides the same damned 8 or 9 guns every damned game has, yes?

      Frankly I'm just sick of Chestie mcWallhigh and his friends shitty game logic and same weapon loadout. Variety is the spice of fricking life, so model some other damned guns and something besides chest high fricking walls!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    17. Re:Film industry by somersault · · Score: 1

      Is it quite free-form ala GTA?

      --
      which is totally what she said
    18. Re:Film industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So don't buy visual novels? I have a problem with sports games, but you won't see me go out, buy a sports game, and then complain that I got a sports game.

    19. Re:Film industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I almost never find the time for hardcore story based gaming anymore either so along with the game not actually being fun I have to remember how to play and where I'm at which eats up half my playing time. Even casual games often take to much work to remember what you're doing.

      My PlayStation has gathered dust for about five years now and my Wii is used almost exclusively for watching kid shows from Netflix. I do have a few hundred iPhone/iPad games ($1 sales make them worth trying) but I keep coming back to just a couple. It comes down to what is fun and what I can just jump into without half an hour of directions.

      TowerMadness is my long term favorite and Max and the Magic Marker a recent favorite. Both are simple to learn, don't require a storyline, are challenging enough, and are just fun!

    20. Re:Film industry by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1

      It is. There is a ton of stuff to do, especially once you progress out of the school proper and get out into the town itself (about an hour in or so). Plus the less extreme yet violent behavior is fun. I mean, come on, how many games can you pick up a ball, beam a 6 year old in the back of the head with it, and spend 10 minutes running from School Administration?

    21. Re:Film industry by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile they talk about "realism" yet I can be standing there with a fucking bazooka and I STILL CAN'T BLOW A FUCKING WOODEN DOOR DOWN! WTF?

      Reminds me of my second "Holy Shit" moment in Crysis. On the second level, I took cover inside a wooden hut from a machine gun nest, and watched the place get taken apart around me in a storm of bullets.

      For the record, the first moment was seeing the sunrise over the beach in the first level at 2am IRL and it messing with my circadian rhythm.

    22. Re:Film industry by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      GTA IV felt like a step backwards.

      Agreed, it felt like they were taking themselves too seriously and trying to be too realistic. They took out a lot of the "fun" stuff like taxi missions, parachutes (though they re-added the parachute in the ballad of gay tony) and airplanes (though they kept helicopters), and added the really annoying windscreen ejections and friends bothering you all the time. They also took out character stats (I find it nice to have your character continue getting better at stuff even when your innate skill isn't so you tend to pass stuff eventually).

      On the positive side the new combat system with the ability to fire out from behind cover was IMO a big improvement.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    23. Re:Film industry by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you might like Serious Sam 3. No hiding behind walls or buildings because the horde of enemy charging at you will bust right through it. And there ain't gon' be no wussy guns either. There may be rails... but the space is supposed to be expansive, and you will have a helicopter (or that's what it looks like in the preview).

    24. Re:Film industry by sgtrock · · Score: 1

      It's strange. I find myself in total agreement and disagreement at the same time. Part of the difference, I think, is simply that my tastes differ from yours.

      For example, for the past several years my go-to game when I've got an hour to kill is Day of Defeat:Source, a WWII game that started as a player created mod for the Half-Life engine 11 years ago. Strictly multi-player, strictly PvP. Good balance of weapons and solid objectives enforcing good teamwork. Lots and lots and LOTS of player created maps providing tons of variety.

      I've tried a heck of a lot of games in this genre that have come out since then. None of them really hold my attention all that well.

      I'll fire up Company of Heroes when I have more time to play a skirmish battle against the computer. Again, I've looked at other games in that RTS style of play, but none seem to hold my attention for very long. The only one that has held my attention is a CoH conversion called the Eastern Front. Same solid game engine combined with a really nifty set of units.

      OK, so I've got two games that I play a lot of these days. In the past I've played a lot of the old Operation Flashpoint/Arma/Arma2 series, Counter-Strike, Battlefield 1942, Starsiege:Tribes, Doom/Doom ][, and several dozen Quake/Quake 2 mods (some of which were REALLY off the wall! Remember Quess and Qrally? :-) ). I've also sampled X3:Terran Conflict, Dirt 2, Portal, and a few others. Many of the most memorable games that I've played started as player mods or by small indie publishers.

      You're right, there really isn't much in the way of risk taking by the major studios. Guess what? It's ALWAYS been that way.

      By far, the best games that I've played have all come from indie publishing houses or player created mods. The sad fact is, I also think that a great deal of creativity is lost because we simply don't see much in the way of player mods any more.

      The best advice that I can give you is to quit buying games from the big houses. Start digging online for the off the wall ones. Go to Good Old Games for a cheap source of retro gaming.

      The nice thing about Steam and other online distribution systems is that they have huge catalogs of these indie games. Go ahead and browse through the Steam store some time. You'll find a lot of stuff out there.

      A lot of it's crap, yes. But when you're only paying a few bucks, so what? And the gems you occasionally stumble over make the search worth it. :-)

    25. Re:Film industry by RichardJenkins · · Score: 1

      LA Noire is very very different from GTA, Red Dead and their ilk.

      Except for the part where it gett boring part way through.

    26. Re:Film industry by adisakp · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's the same problem as the film industry: Increased budgets means more money is at risk, meaning you're only allowed to play it safe.

      When you're playing with your own money, you can do whatever you want, either in independent films or independent games, and only need to sell to customers, who desire innovation and fun. If you need to finance your project externally, you need to sell your not-yet-started project to your prospective backers, who desire monetary returns with reduced risks.

      Exactly... plus there is plenty of innovation in the low-development-cost $0.99 games for phones which target a generally non-gaming audience. Games like "Cut the Rope" are quite innovative and seem to have a much broader appeal than just for hard-core gamers. Heck a couple guys in a garage can make a phone game. It requires a studio with at least 100 people and a $20M+ budget (plus another $10-20M for marketing) to make a AAA+ title.

    27. Re:Film industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saints Row 2.

      Once you complete the intro story/escape you are free to do what you want, and go obey the laws and drive taxi's for a living.

    28. Re:Film industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen some decent work-arounds for this sort of stagnation. Invest in the safe stuff and make money but put aside a certain portion of that to be used to fund silly ideas. Write off the silly idea department as a loss and move on. Silly ideas might need to refresh itself with new blood and management on some sort of time table though. And once in a while SID will produce the next big thing, make silly amounts of money and spawn a new successful revenue stream.

    29. Re:Film industry by chonglibloodsport · · Score: 1

      Yes. Bully is exactly the GTA model brought to boarding school. Gangs have been replaced by cliques. Cars and motorcycles have been replaced by skateboards, go-karts and bicycles. Guns and grenades have been replaced by slingshots and stink bombs.

      It follows the formula to the letter.

    30. Re:Film industry by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Realism is fine in small doses but If you want crazy fun you need to try Just Cause II and Red Faction: Guerrilla. Nothing more satisfying than being chased by a bunch of federales and using the grappling hook in JCII to shoot a line into their hood and the ground to do a nice, complete with massive explosions!, re-enactment of Terminator III. And being to drive through buildings in a semi in RF:Guerrilla just gives a nice warm fuzzy feeling deep in your heart. BTW if you do get RF you should immediately get the "explosive pistol" mod, as frankly the weapon design stinks and the mod makes all the difference with that game. Of course it seriously amps up the crazy if you run into a battle with the RF and drones both carrying pistols, it makes a rocket hoedown on QIII look like a Sunday picnic! We are talking dozens of bodies on both sides ragdolling everywhere while cars and trucks go sailing over the carnage like flaming balloons o' love.

      Sure both games are about as realistic as growing wings out your ass and flying south for the winter but its a game and games are supposed to be fun dammit and those two sure as hell are!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  2. From the title... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought this was about aiming at FPS games and how due to the bullet/missile trajectory you have to aim a little higher than your target?

    1. Re:From the title... by Adambomb · · Score: 2

      Nah, that joke will only work if there comes a time when Game Developers Lead the Industry again.

      --
      Ice Cream has no bones.
  3. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... What?
    He claims that the indie industry is booming, more people are gaming than ever before and games are taken seriously as a medium and an industry...

    And this is somehow evidence that game developers are drowning in a culture of fear of change?

    1. Re:What? by Eraesr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not about sales. It's about innovation growing stale in triple-A game development. Developers and publishers don't want to take risks anymore so you'll see more copying of ideas being done than innovating for themselves. It is the indie market where the real innovation is being done these days.

      The reason for this is simple though. Many indies work on their games as part of a hobby or on relatively small budgets, where taking a risk is a choice they can make all by themselves. A game developer that works on a $100 million+ title can't afford to take risks because that scares away investors. Investors don't want risk. They want profit.

    2. Re:What? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. He's saying the evidence of stagnation is when you walk past the PC games at E3 and you cannot tell them apart because they're all soldiers running around with guns.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    3. Re:What? by mike2R · · Score: 2

      I'm with you on that. Sure AAA games from the major publishers may be somewhat bland (still good in many cases though), but the Indie scene is making the running so well that it hardly matters.

      It also is something of a US/western thing. I'm becoming a real fan of Russian game development, there have been some absolutely fantastic Russian games in the last few years. Ice Pick Lodge's The Void for example firmly answers the question "can computer games be art?"

      Honestly, this is a great time for computer game development, at least on the PC. We've got good, solid AAA games with huge budgets, and a burgeoning Indie scene turning out more innovative new types of games than I've ever seen. Added to that is maturing games industries in Eastern Europe and Russia bringing a new perspective on games. Hopefully this carries on, or we may look back at 2011 as a golden age.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    4. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Soldiers running around with guns are what people buy, though. I don't think CoD is the record-breaking sales monster it is because people lack a choice. They are making their choice and developers are responding, there's still plenty of choice for people who don't care for FPS. The bigger issue for me is not the genre of game people are making, but the way games are so formulaic within their specific genres.

    5. Re:What? by Warwick+Allison · · Score: 2

      The whole point is that the current AAA titles are all aiming for the *median* gamer. The indie market covers MORE than the AAA titles, for the simple reason that 20 hits at 5% groups usually hits wider than 1 hit at 50%... and the real figures are way over 20:1.

      But it's a trap for AAA: everywhere the go from there current local maxima means higher costs and lower income.

      Indies don't have that problem, plus many of them will fail thereby leaving those that remain to further seek out great new directions and signal starting points for newcomers and reboots.

      Best of all for PC gamers, there is little monopolisation and lock-in distorting the market: you're free to play MW, CoD, DoD CS, and NetHack all on the same hardware (you probably don't even need the latest drivers for NetHack). Angry Birds is on every mobile device (even Nokia). Console gamers aren't too oppressed even.

    6. Re:What? by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      I spent last evening playing Angry Birds in my Google-Chrome browser.

      I was going to point this out (I've been reading through the replies but haven't seen this obvious point), these simple $3 games for mobile devices can translate over to PCs, especially technologies like flash. Many are small, easy to play games that can hook a wider audience. This is the pac-man and tetris hook - the games are very simple, but also very engaging.

      When people are working on those AAA games you mention, there's a team of developers and huge investments. They're not looking to innovate, they're looking for a good ROI. You will not likely see "epic" scaled innovative games... if innovations are to happen, they're going to start at the small level and work themselves into the epic games slowly.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    7. Re:What? by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      I was going to point this out (I've been reading through the replies but haven't seen this obvious point), these simple $3 games for mobile devices can translate over to PCs, especially technologies like flash. Many are small, easy to play games that can hook a wider audience.

      Although your point is good, one thing I noticed after getting hooked on "Plants vs. Zombies" after getting it free from Amazon (regularly $2.99) was that the Windows version is $19.99.

      Sure, there are more "extras", but the main game is identical, and many of the extras aren't available until you complete the main game once. It might be worth $20 based on time of play, but I suspect that the $3 mobile version will keep me occupied for far more than 15% as long as the Windows version. I think they'd be better off pricing the Windows game at around $5 and adding some sort of DLC where the total outlay would be about $15 if you bought everything. This should do what you suggest, and allow them to hook a wider audience on a huge platform (I think Windows still has more installations than Android and iOS combined).

  4. It's an industry now by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 1

    Back when Ken and Roberta Williams founded Sierra game development was a very different scene from today. (Read Steven Levy's Hackers.)

    Today game development is an industry, employing a huge amount of people. Much like movies, games need to sell for people to pay their expenses and live their lives.

    It's likely that games, like movies, will develop an art scene where things are developed independently or funded by grants beforehand. But the mainstream stuff? Let's just say that the ship has sailed. Apologies for my cynicism...

    --
    .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    1. Re:It's an industry now by dingen · · Score: 1

      It's likely that games, like movies, will develop an art scene where things are developed independently or funded by grants beforehand.

      That's already happening of course, and on a pretty big scale too. Even mainstream gamers play the occasional indie every once in a while.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    2. Re:It's an industry now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, that is mainly what happened with games like "World of Goo" or "lost in shadows".

  5. Indies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A weird time to post something like that, right when after ten dry years we are in the middle of a huge storm of great indie games, such as Minecraft, SpaceChem or Terraria (just to name a few).

    1. Re:Indies? by slackbheep · · Score: 3, Informative

      I was with you until you mentioned Terraria, a game that just rehashes Minecraft in a rush to make a buck.

    2. Re:Indies? by Squiffy · · Score: 1

      I'm not a big fan of Terraria, but I do feel it's different enough from Minecraft that it deserves to be its own game. Its RPG-ish sense of progression is much stronger than Minecraft's and its sidescrolling style is not to be overlooked. I can totally imagine Terraria being born from someone looking at Minecraft and wishing it had gone in a different direction.

    3. Re:Indies? by slackbheep · · Score: 1

      I think Terraria has room to develop into an interesting game, but it's so light on content at the moment I believe it's hard to say it wasn't rushed out to make a buck :P

  6. dev costs certainly a factor I'd say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your new game costs tens to hundreds of millions of $ do make, you are just a lot less likely to go very far out on a limb....

    1. Re:dev costs certainly a factor I'd say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The easiest answer would be to not make a game that costs that much, then. A 200 person team and photorealistic graphics are not necessary to make a good title, and too often I find that such goals make for pretty eye-candy but crappy gameplay. For example, have you ever played Crysis? Looks great, but I can name a half dozen shooters that were twice as fun to play.

    2. Re:dev costs certainly a factor I'd say by TheRaven64 · · Score: 0

      Then play those half-dozen shooters. Or play one of the indie games with an even smaller budget. In general, the budget of a project is inversely proportional to the amount of risk it will take. No one is going to gamble a $10M development budget on an untried concept, but people are much more willing to gamble with a $10K budget. A game company can afford to throw a team of 4 people on a concept for a few months and not worry too much if it's a flop. There are companies like PopCap that do this. And there are also companies that put hundreds of people on a game for a year or more and end up with something that is almost guaranteed to sell, but and guaranteed not to be particularly groundbreaking. If you want to encourage more of the former, buy games in that category, don't complain about the existence of the latter category.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  7. Yes, please make a good party game for the console by janimal · · Score: 1

    Where's the equivalent of You Don't Know Jack for modern consoles? Buzz is a good start, but you can do better, I'm sure! Is that too high budget? I'm 34. I play with my wife and sometimes with friends. I PAY for my games. I demand some respect!

    For some reason the expansion of the target audience to 5-50 caused game model ideas to revert to the stone age. It's a greenfield people! It's your next frontier for excellent games. Get to work!

  8. This Reminds of Bruce Sterling's Speech by geegel · · Score: 1

    ... from a very, very long time ago. It deals with the same topic, but it's much better. So good that I chose to take it as a mantra of my own. Definitely worth reading: link

    --
    right...
    1. Re:This Reminds of Bruce Sterling's Speech by RogerWilco · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's a bit longwinded, but indeed a very good read. I really liked this part, it gives deep insight and is still true today:

      "But even that isn't enough, you know.... There's talk nowadays
      in publishing circles about a new device for books, called a
      ReadMan. Like a Walkman only you carry it in your hands like
      this.... Has a very nice little graphics screen, theoretically,
      a high-definition thing, very legible.... And you play your
      books on it.... You buy the book as a floppy and you stick it
      in... And just think, wow you can even have graphics with your
      book... you can have music, you can have a soundtrack....
      Narration.... Animated illustrations... Multimedia... it can
      even be interactive.... It's the New Hollywood for Publisher's
      Row, and at last books can aspire to the exalted condition of
      movies and cartoons and TV and computer games.... And just think
      when the ReadMan goes obsolete, all the product that was written
      for it will be blessedly gone forever!!! Erased from the memory
      of mankind!

      Now I'm the farthest thing from a Luddite ladies and gentlemen,
      but when I contemplate this particular technical marvel my
      author's blood runs cold... It's really hard for books to
      compete with other multisensory media, with modern electronic
      media, and this is supposed to be the panacea for withering
      literature, but from the marrow of my bones I say get that
      fucking little sarcophagus away from me. For God's sake don't
      put my books into the Thomas Edison kinetoscope. Don't put me
      into the stereograph, don't write me on the wax cylinder, don't
      tie my words and my thoughts to the fate of a piece of hardware,
      because hardware is even more mortal than I am, and I'm a hell
      of a lot more mortal than I care to be. Mortality is one good
      reason why I'm writing books in the first place. For God's sake
      don't make me keep pace with the hardware, because I'm not
      really in the business of keeping pace, I'm really in the
      business of marking place.

      Okay.... Now I've sometimes heard it asked why computer game
      designers are deprived of the full artistic respect they
      deserve. God knows they work hard enough. They're really
      talented too, and by any objective measure of intelligence they
      rank in the top percentiles... I've heard it said that maybe
      this problem has something to do with the size of the author's
      name on the front of the game-box. Or it's lone wolves versus
      teams, and somehow the proper allotment of fame gets lost in the
      muddle. One factor I don't see mentioned much is the sheer lack
      of stability in your medium. A modern movie-maker could probably
      make a pretty good film with DW Griffith's equipment, but you
      folks are dwelling in the very maelstrom of Permanent
      Technological Revolution. And that's a really cool place, but
      man, it's just not a good place to build monuments.

      Okay. Now I live in the same world you live in, I hope I've
      demonstrated that I face a lot of the same problems you face...
      Believe me there are few things deader or more obsolescent than
      a science fiction novel that predicts the future when the future
      has passed it by."

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    2. Re:This Reminds of Bruce Sterling's Speech by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      20 years is a "very, very long time ago"? You must be very, very young.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:This Reminds of Bruce Sterling's Speech by CapnStank · · Score: 1

      The modern gaming industry is very very young.

    4. Re:This Reminds of Bruce Sterling's Speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technologically? Yes, 20 years is a very, very long time ago. You are also a very, very large asshole.

  9. Two Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Frozen Synapse

    http://frozensynapse.com/

    There are so many interesting things happening in the Indie Games scene at the moment, you just have to look beyond the AAA titles.

    1. Re:Two Words by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Frozen Synapse

      Looks interesting. Is there a demo? It's not quite clear to me what the gameplay is supposed to be like.

    2. Re:Two Words by ledow · · Score: 2

      There's a demo (I believe) and it's on Steam anyway.

      It's kinda like a X-COM/UFO turn-based shooter but where both players turns are submitted independently and then played out simultaneously (so your perfect plan that you submitted may go awry because your artillery gets shot from behind before he can move by someone you couldn't see).

      Each "turn" is 5-seconds of gameplay and you can only issue orders in between turns (and take as long as you like - it can be anything from 10 seconds to play-by-email timings until your opponents sends *their* turn) with the next 5 seconds decided by a central server depending on the orders given and what happens in the world in those 5 seconds.

      Units are few and maps are all the same "electric blue" but with different layouts, objectives, mix of units, etc. Certainly good fun and very nice if you miss X-COM-by-email from the past.

    3. Re:Two Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One word - Flash!

      There's a very good reason that Flash gaming is worth more than all the other platforms put together ya know.

      The content is produced by individuals & small teams without the direct interference of the corporations and assorted suits that kill creativity on contact.

      Oh damm, we're not supposed to talk about flash around here - master jobs will beat us if we do..... shhhhhh!

    4. Re:Two Words by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      This "WTF is Frozen Synapse" shows the gameplay pretty clearly: linky.

      Gotta warn you though, the guy is pretty damn enthusiastic, but with reason ;-)

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    5. Re:Two Words by Warwick+Allison · · Score: 1

      It exports matches to YouTube and cost $10 (in lots of 2), so don't bother with the demo! Buy it if you like any game on the axis between Chess and Day of Defeat.

    6. Re:Two Words by Warwick+Allison · · Score: 1

      Ugh. Give me Unity (3D not the gnome p.o.s) any day.

    7. Re:Two Words by demonbug · · Score: 1

      There's a demo (I believe) and it's on Steam anyway.

      It's kinda like a X-COM/UFO turn-based shooter but where both players turns are submitted independently and then played out simultaneously (so your perfect plan that you submitted may go awry because your artillery gets shot from behind before he can move by someone you couldn't see).

      Each "turn" is 5-seconds of gameplay and you can only issue orders in between turns (and take as long as you like - it can be anything from 10 seconds to play-by-email timings until your opponents sends *their* turn) with the next 5 seconds decided by a central server depending on the orders given and what happens in the world in those 5 seconds.

      Units are few and maps are all the same "electric blue" but with different layouts, objectives, mix of units, etc. Certainly good fun and very nice if you miss X-COM-by-email from the past.

      So, basically a re-make of Robosport?

  10. Go Indie... by Haedrian · · Score: 2

    "Is it because the gaming world has gone too corporate and is no longer exclusive to small teams of genius misfits and creative underdogs"

    While its true you have large corporations producing last year's games with better graphics, you shouldn't discount the indie scene.

    I got the last humble bundle (and the ones before that) and its amazing how fun and different certain game concepts are. Support smaller developers who you feel are creative enough for your likes, and the industry will get better. If everyone keeps buying 'generic shooter with better graphics VII', then the industry will churn out more of those.

    1. Re:Go Indie... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I didn't even hear about the last humble bundle... and I bought the previous two. Asked about it and got some crap about spam but it wasn't there of course.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Go Indie... by dragon-file · · Score: 1

      To some extent i would have to agree, It seems that the larger a game company gets, the more energy they put into things like marketing, demographic research, and legal teams. They spend more on making sure they game will sell while forgetting that a great game will sell just as well with limited marketing. I cant count how many times I've bought the hype of a future game, and after forking over $30-$50 of my hard earned cash, have been utterly disappointed with the game play. Indie game makers have a vision and they spend their time and energy making sure their game works exactly as they want it to, marketing comes second. It seems that larger companies have it backwards. Where i don't agree is that indie companies don't stay indie for long. They either end up being one hit wonders, or they get bought out by heavy hitters.

      --
      Whenever a player quits EVE to go play WoW, the Average IQ of both games increase.
  11. Easy question by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

    [W]hy is it that game developers are beginning to drown in a culture of fear, or more specifically, a fear of change?

    Because the average AAA game development budget is now eight figures. Next question?

    1. Re:Easy question by Deus.1.01 · · Score: 2

      Thats the jist of it, but there is a reason why the budgets are so bloated, its because they think a game wont sell unless it includes a full feature Hollywood piece.
      Its been detrimental to gameplay, because they dont trust in niches and genres to bring multi million sales, Its all about accessibility's now, homogeneous soup to tap into every possible market and they try to make it up with cinematic content.

      "Button -> Awsome"

      --
      My -1 Troll is actually a +1 funny. And my -1 flame is actually a +1 insightfull.
    2. Re:Easy question by NinetyOneDegrees · · Score: 1

      That's true, but the reason that the budget is so high is because we of the need for product differentiation. If your game is largely the same as all the others, it needs some way to stand out. It needs huge levels, amazing graphics, a killer soundtrack, and all the rest or nobody's interested.

      A more original concept is also product differentiation, and people are way less concerned about it looking anything more than decent. Decent is a lot cheaper than amazing.

    3. Re:Easy question by ToiletDuk · · Score: 1

      There are many more reasons than just the desire to enhance a game's mass market appeal which drive up development costs.

      1. Top-Down Decision Making
      When the game company is large, and especially if they're publicly traded, the things that happen on the front lines are planned and defined by top-level decisions like "We need to clear X revenue in Q3 of this next fiscal year" or "We need a product for the 8-13 year old demographic in WalMart in November" or "We need to develop a game which includes themes X Y and Z because they are popular right now" or "We have this license or technology, and even though the game will suck, it will sell enough copies to justify making another game with it."

      None of these decisions are made with game quality, story, depth, or innovation in mind. They are business decisions which result in a cascade of semi-creative decisions being made down the line until finally the game is done. But those creative decisions are all beholden to the one great decision in the sky that started the development process. The people actually doing the work usually have limited control over the details, as often the content, themes, and "points to hit" are defined by market research or shareholders or other stuff that has nothing to do with whether games are fun or innovative.

      What this does is create a process that just has money and hype as inputs, a pre-defined product as an output, but has no good feedback mechanism for the people doing the work to steer the process. The people at the top will assign X number of warm bodies to work on this project with a certain deadline, and come hell or high water, something will be released then. Nothing about the process is agile, money and time are constantly wasted. The brain is disconnected from the body, and even if it were connected, they wouldn't speak the same language. Corporate doesn't understand design or development, they just know that history suggests they will get more money back than they spend if these people do their job and follow the plan.

      2. Staffing and Technology
      If you're targeting WalMart, or volumes on similar scales, you need large teams. The smallest team I've ever developed a retail video game on was still around 10-15 engineers, around 5 designers and producers, a dozen artists and modelers, a few sound and music people, plus the managers and development directors overseeing the people and technology on the project. All these people need full workstations, usually with multiple monitors. The artists need tablets. The engineers need console development kits from Sony or Nintendo which are usually pricey as shit. Everybody needs some IT support, artists need tool and pipeline support, engineers need build/release management support, and then the entire project needs to have a full QA/Testing staff with their own retinue of workstations, tools, procedures, and support roles.

      You can make smaller games, but you really need to have brilliant and multi-talented people in every position as your team shrinks, or else you just won't have the bandwidth or knowledge to deal with the problems of game development. It's still possible to find new ideas that can be quickly and simply shaped into an amazing game, but it's getting harder and harder to do that with single digit numbers of employees, and those simple but potent ideas are few and far between.

      Even if you do find a small and talented group of people to develop a visionary game, executing that plan properly in an environment dominated by multinational conglomerates and 8-figure budgets is very tough. It's a competitive ecosystem. Even if you have a simple concept, so much is required of software these days. It needs to be fast, stable, socially connected, interactive, and well produced. There should be attention to detail in localization, testing, and distribution. There should be community and customer interaction from the developer(s)/publisher and good support for when things go wrong. Sometimes you can get away without many of these things, but the

    4. Re:Easy question by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Insomniac Games is no stranger to money.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
  12. It's all about the Money by Jawdy · · Score: 1

    When it comes down to it, it's the money. That's it.
    And I don't necessarily mean it's about the big companies wanting to turn over a $billion on their latest iteration of some regurgitated franchise with non-inventive gameplay or anything like that.
    But even us Indie devs... we WANT to make innovative, new, fantastic games that push the very boundaries of what one perceives as a "video game", but we're bogged down by the one thing - money.

    We have the technical skill, many have the experiential drive and knowledge and oft put together teams to satisfy every criteria except one - money. Someone has to pay for it, and unless you're an ace at marketing or speaking "bank manager-ish" you don't stand a chance. Government funding, grants and even venture capital is drying up. No-one wants to take a risk.
    And if they're not risking their money, then (many) video games developers aren't risking their companies, teams and time to develop these games.

    Shame, really.

  13. Not True by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Portal 2, Guitar Hero, Kinect Games, Wii Games.. etc. etc.

    They are all groundbreaking genius games. Not sure what sort of change the submitter is hinting at.

    1. Re:Not True by slackbheep · · Score: 1

      The vast majority of what the Wii sees is shovelware that imitates anything decent Nintendo puts out themselves, this is happening all over again with Kinect and Move. As fun and original as Guitar Hero was, they've managed to kill the series in a few short years because they milked it so hard it's heart and lungs came out.

  14. Chronogauss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That game is weird: http://www.headdesklabs.com/

  15. "because the gaming world has gone too corporate" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that's why. the phenomenon is identical to that of the film industry. bloat and reduction of substance; filled with air - costsome air.

  16. has anyone seen or played homefront ? by KingBenny · · Score: 1

    I didn't get the impression those guys drowned in a culture of fear, considering the topics they tackled and the approach they took with the story.

    --
    Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
    1. Re:has anyone seen or played homefront ? by Warwick+Allison · · Score: 2

      GG in au gave it a pretty mediocre 7, IIRC, for exactly the reasons in TFA: formulaic, relying of bells and whistles over good character development... the usual AAA f-ups. just another soliders with guns game, just based on the ludicrous premise of a starving third world nation becoming a superpower. Nazis with dinosaurs make more sense.

  17. The big studios? Certainly. by Goragoth · · Score: 1

    I agree that the big studios are just rehashing the same ideas (and often badly at that) but there is plenty of innovation coming from indie developers and mod makers in the community. Look at DotA, which started as a simple UMS map in Starcraft, got ported to Warcraft 3 and has managed to spawn an entire new genre. Or in the indie space we have games like Minecraft and Terraria that are forging the way for yet another new genre of games where the player has the freedom to rebuild/shape his entire game world. That's where I'm betting we will see some really interesting and fun games appear in the future, some more sandboxy like Minecraft and some more like real games (similar to Terraria).

    For the big studios it is simply to risky to invest in new (unproven) ideas when they have to recoup millions in development costs. But once a concept is proven in the mod or indie space the big studios will eventually pick it up and polish it. Again, look at DotA, a small mod project, and now we have Heroes of Newerth, League of Legends and DotA2 all competing in that space. Once the concept was considered proven big studios decided to invest in it.

    I just really wished that they would stop forcing console UIs on to the PC versions of games. Just watched a video review of Dungeon Siege 3 today and the whole UI looked like a big console-port clusterfuck. Is it really too much to ask that you have separate UI implementations for the console and PC versions of games? Really?

    1. Re:The big studios? Certainly. by jonwil · · Score: 1

      I concur. I played Oblivion on the XBOX 360 and it felt great. Then I played it on the PC and the controls felt lame and too much like a half-assed console re-do instead of a proper PC setup.

      I have a mouse. Why the hell cant I use that mouse to click on an item to pick it up? Or on a chest to open it? Why do I need to press keyboard keys to activate the chest or pick up the item?

    2. Re:The big studios? Certainly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the programmers secretly hate you. They hate you so much that they didn't code a 2d click to 3d mapping function to allow you to click on an object, how dare they! ...Obviously, the xbox version didn't have a cursor so they didn't need to do the later and porting is usually in the realm of the quickest and least amount of time and money necessary to get the game barely running.

  18. Focus Groups and Historical Trends by oldrepublic · · Score: 1

    I have a bad feeling the corporate bigwigs look at track records of 'what sold' every other time and thus basing it on what looks good in the frame of an advert or commercial and not what will give the gamer a lasting worthy entertainment experience. -and focus groups are usually so trendy they are on another planet to the rest of us

  19. Since we're on the topic... by Haedrian · · Score: 1

    Lets do something constructive, list of Indie games which 'aim higher' or whatever. Just to give each other/interested people a few interesting games to play which aren't the generic mass produced things.

    Who wants to start us off?

    1. Re:Since we're on the topic... by daid303 · · Score: 4, Informative

      http://db.tigsource.com/

      You are welcome.

    2. Re:Since we're on the topic... by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      http://db.tigsource.com/

      You are welcome.

      Oh, nice website. It indeed already has all the games I would mention.

      It also shows the problem with Indie games: Overall they are quite limited. Minecraft is nr2 on their Top List, and that's still in Beta. It's very ambitious for an Indie game and I really like it, because it's different.

      I'm not saying some of those games aren't great fun. I think they are. But it also shows that in today's game market people you need a level of perfection and an amount of content and art quality that is very hard to achieve alone or with a small team. If you want to reach the masses that is. It's amazing what such Indie developers can accomplish with the limited resources they have. But it also shows that there is a difference in scale compared to something like Blizzard.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    3. Re:Since we're on the topic... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't speak its name. Blizzard sold out a long time ago, and lost my respect. Not another dime for them from me.

    4. Re:Since we're on the topic... by daid303 · · Score: 1

      Oh, nice website. It indeed already has all the games I would mention.

      It also shows the problem with Indie games: Overall they are quite limited. Minecraft is nr2 on their Top List, and that's still in Beta. It's very ambitious for an Indie game and I really like it, because it's different.

      I'm not saying some of those games aren't great fun. I think they are. But it also shows that in today's game market people you need a level of perfection and an amount of content and art quality that is very hard to achieve alone or with a small team. If you want to reach the masses that is. It's amazing what such Indie developers can accomplish with the limited resources they have. But it also shows that there is a difference in scale compared to something like Blizzard.

      The nr1 on the top list is Cave Story. A platform game with quite good and simple pixel graphics, all made by a single person. To get success in the indie market you don't need huge amount of content and art quality. You'll need a solid game.

      And, there are loads and loads more indiegames then in the tigsource db, those are just the most noticeable. If you want more indie (smaller scale), head for the feedback forum: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?board=6.0 where people show off finished and unfinished games. If you want less indie (larger scale), head for the steam store.

      Tigsource also runs a blog on the main page if you want information about new developments.

    5. Re:Since we're on the topic... by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 1

      I've been checking in on Play This Thing on and off for years. A lot of what they find is very odd, very small, and often pointless, but it's more than worth a look.

      They also bring out indie tabletop games (cards, board, etc) about once a week.

    6. Re:Since we're on the topic... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lets do something constructive, list of Indie games which 'aim higher' or whatever. Just to give each other/interested people a few interesting games to play which aren't the generic mass produced things.

      Who wants to start us off?

      You could even aim higher: create your own game, we're nerds after all and it is lots more fun.

      If you have no clue of where to start, try PyGame to learn the basics (good tutorials and documentation), after that you will find out where to go by yourself.

  20. Aim Higher by jamesh · · Score: 2

    Headshot!

    1. Re:Aim Higher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoosh!

    2. Re:Aim Higher by gblackwo · · Score: 1

      You aim lower at the sternum for a headshot.

    3. Re:Aim Higher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, too high.

  21. Re:Yes, please make a good party game for the cons by abennetts · · Score: 1

    Where's the equivalent of You Don't Know Jack for modern consoles?

    Released earlier this year. http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/you-dont-know-jack

  22. user expectations vs cost by lkcl · · Score: 2

    the presentation of artwork, hiring of actors for 3D modelling and the massive development means that the average 3D game costs around $8 million. if users expect games to be of this standard, anyone expecting an independent team to develop something that's "competitive" is pissing in the wind. about the only possible hope is a free software massively collaborative effort, based around existing work and engines, such as WorldForge for MMORGs or the Quake or Doom 3D engines for 3D games.

    1. Re:user expectations vs cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or be a crazed lone dev and do it solo:
      http://www.quelsolaar.com/love/index.html

    2. Re:user expectations vs cost by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      about the only possible hope is a free software massively collaborative effort, based around existing work and engines,

      I don't think this is going to happen. Any such community will fracture, because people feel passionately about game content. It might work to develop a half decent engine, or maintain and expand one. But it's not going to work to build something on the scale of World of Warcraft, the project would go down in arguing.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    3. Re:user expectations vs cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you mean 'average AAA title costs around $8 million' - and then you're very high for average.

      Marketing, Development, QA, Project Management, and licensing costs get the lion's share - Artists (graphical, actors, and music get the short end of the stick). MM games also carry huge capital and operational costs for the networks.

    4. Re:user expectations vs cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or go for a parametric approach that can be tweaked afterward if needed rather than having people do absolutely everything from scratch by hand.

      It worked perfectly for some of the classics where storage was at a premium (Elite, XCom, etc) and made those games have massive replay value. Actually, maybe that is why it isn't done...

    5. Re:user expectations vs cost by lkcl · · Score: 1

      it has actually happened. look up the games "cyphesis", "wesnoth" and, to a lesser extent, "bzflag".

  23. Re:A PLEA for game developers to STOP RIPPING 80's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Put down the keyboard and back away.

  24. Film sequel syndrome by iB1 · · Score: 1

    It's exactly the same reason as to why we're now getting prequels, reboots and an insane number of sequels now in the film industry. You can keep the same concept, same characters, tweak the story line and graphics a little bit and you're good to go with minimal effort - but still get a good trunk of money by the end of it. Then when you've flogged the horse until it's knackered, you can put it to rest and finally start again.

    1. Re:Film sequel syndrome by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      If it were priced appropriately, and released often enough, I wouldn't mind that --- I'd dearly love to be able to download additional missions for Red Steel 2, and would buy at least one a month if only they were offered.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  25. it's what the market demands by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you looked at what's successful lately?
    it's because of the customers!
      Zynga is the fastest growing gaming company, and all they make is utter junk that's been ripped off from other companies and socially engineered to 'seperate' people out of their money, not to entertain them; it tells you the state of things in the gaming industry.

    Customers don't appreciate quality.. for example, we have a 5* iOS App that gets tremendous customer reviews and is a piece of engineering that is unique and very entertaining, but is 1/100th as successful as our 3* app that individuals spend 10s of thousands of dollars on because it's designed that way. Both apps take about as much effort to plan, develop and run... Which kind of app do you think we will be FORCED to build in the future?

  26. no clue by jsprenkle · · Score: 1

    Game devs use a formula that works because... well... it works. Duh.

    The devs don't have any control over the games. The guys with the money do,

    This guy has read all kinds of things into what happened and made up an interpretation for them that hasn't much connection to reality. Earth calling Major Mike...

    --
    - I've got bad karma because I won't parrot everyone else's opinion
  27. Blinded by the hind sight. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 2

    What strikes me as odd is when people complain how things used to be great and how it used to be so good back way back when...

    Except when they start mentioning the old hits, the classics, they don't seem to understand that in the years that those games/movies/music/etc came out, there was a dozen crappy counter examples. TV has gotten much better, but that is the exception, not the rule.

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    1. Re:Blinded by the hind sight. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jersey Shore
      Real Housewives Of
      Punkd
      Americas Funnies Videos
      Anything on E channel

      Just likes games, the A list titles have gotten better. The dregs are still the dregs.

    2. Re:Blinded by the hind sight. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      I disagree.

      The trash we have now is much better than trash from the 80's and 90's.

      The trash from the 80's and 90's just wasn't entertaining. The trash from our modern era is quite well made and entertaining, however, there's usually this weird miasma of evil coming from it that makes it unwatchable.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  28. One solution would be... by Nrrqshrr · · Score: 1

    Preorders.
    What I did like about certain indie games (Minecraft, Zomboid, Terraria, Wurm Online,...) is the fact that they release an early stage demo, offer preorders and preorder benefits, and take feedback into account. This way people will preorder/buy the game if they like the demo and the potential, and you get their feedback to make sure they recieve exactly what they asked for when the game is complete.

    I know this is a smal-scale plan, and I don;t think it would recoup the entire costs of an 8 milion project, but I still like this way of doing business.

  29. Games are better now than they ever were by Phydaux · · Score: 1

    Personally I think Mike Action is blind, and doing him self a disservice.

    I think we're currently in a second golden age of video games. Loads of people seem to forget about all the crap that used to get produced decades ago, people were freer to make what they liked and most people generally made shit. The ratio of good games to bad is so much better now than it ever was.

    But that is not going to stop people ignoring what is around them and looking to the past with rose-tinted glasses.

  30. I agree. by trum4n · · Score: 1

    Make it worth the 60 dollars you ask, and i might actually start buying games. Minecraft is better written than most games, and got my 22$.

  31. It's not the game devs that are the problem.. by fistynuts · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ..it's the publishers. Most publishers will only play it safe, sticking to established brands and themes. I'm sure there are a hell of a lot of game dev studios out there with great game ideas, but what's the point if no-one will publish it?

    Playing devil's advocate, perhaps the publishers have a point. Today's game-buying community loves franchises (FIFA, Final Fantasy, Mario, Zelda), loves playing the same game over and over again (CoD) and virtually ignores great new games (Enslaved, Bayonetta).

    --
    "You heard the man, Tubbs.. get undressed."
    1. Re:It's not the game devs that are the problem.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your two examples of "great new games" were both awful.

    2. Re:It's not the game devs that are the problem.. by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Thankfully in the age of digital distribution, publishers will matter less and less. They're more like venture capitalists than publishers nowadays, but stuff like Steam, GoG, etc. makes it easy for a small studio to self-publish and put out something interesting without having to kowtow to some idiot in marketing who wants you to up the cup size of the female lead to a FF.

    3. Re:It's not the game devs that are the problem.. by Artemis3 · · Score: 1

      Publishers to developers, are like labels to musicians. They need a product to sell, they don't like risks and you become slave. They rather not try "too different" until somebody else in the industry had.

      Like some musicians, who think without labels (and their controlled promotion/distribution channels) they can't never succeed, some developers think they need the publishers, to hold an 8 figure project of pretty graphics and very non challenging repetitive game play.

      Most sales are related to consoles, and consoles have historically been very hostile to indie developing, as opposed to, say, mobile apps.

      Also the lack of creativity for games have gotten so low, they are doing many remakes, just like Hollywood... Unable to innovate or think beyond.

      --
      Artix
      Your Linux, your init.
    4. Re:It's not the game devs that are the problem.. by dskzero · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up! The problem I do have with that, is that these "new" franchises that are successful, at least in FPS, are virtually the same game: straightforward, seemingly deep, military rail shooters disguised as free roaming games. Others, such as Far Cry, Grand Theft Auto, Mercenaires and now even postal 2, are the same muck around sandbox games disguised as action games as adventures. Frankly, out of all those games, very few games actually try something different, and, as a result, they are chastised (CRYSIS!)(Oops caps) for ridiculous critics that manage to manipulate the general reception. I'm really concerned about Deus Ex: human Revolution. The beta shows me a good game with some console leftovers (regen health), but it's far from the rest of the crop.

      --
      Oblivion Awaits
  32. Re:Yes, please make a good party game for the cons by Nirvelli · · Score: 1

    I got your new Jack right here.

  33. So set an example already! by Chemisor · · Score: 0

    I went to the Insomniac Games website and found no creativity there at all. There are a dozen straightforward FPS titles with no story or point. All being simply various excuses to shoot at things with a variety of weapons. Apparently Mr.Mike does not follow his own advice.

  34. And yet... by Phydeaux314 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...I find games are better than they've ever been - whether or not they're doing something new. They're more accessible, more immersive, better-written, with a more in-depth and convincing set of stories. Innovative gameplay quirks, while fun, aren't the point of video games any more. We've come a long way from "Come up with a new mechanic, write a paragraph justification in a manual, sell for $10" that was around twenty years ago.

    Now, games are about telling stories or creating a world. Look at the Halo series, the Half-Life series, the Mass Effect series, the recent Modern Warfare games. You have games as a medium to tell a story now, and an interactive one at that. I vastly prefer a re-used gameplay mechanic to tell an interesting and original tale with believable characters to a beautiful mechanic with nothing to keep me interested beyond the thirty minutes of "Huh, that's cool."

    --
    Never underestimate the stupidity inherent in all human beings.
    1. Re:And yet... by dskzero · · Score: 1

      I'd rather have interesting mechanics with so-so tales. You know, because an interesting plot won't force me through a game, but an interesting gameplay will make me ignore the plot. Unless you're one of the Halo generation. No offense, there are different opinions.

      --
      Oblivion Awaits
    2. Re:And yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They called it 'movies' once..

  35. Who of what now? by Rogerborg · · Score: 0

    Hey, Mike Thingy of Whatever Games, how's Wratchet and Clank 5: The Milkening coming along? Had any new ideas or done anything original in the last half decade? Hmmmmmm?

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  36. Go Open Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Open source could help this situation by giving indie devs good, competitive, open source game engines (think unreal 3 without the $50k/yr cap) and letting them use their imagination more to create the story and artwork without being distracted by as much coding. It could also possibly help AAA devs focus more on artwork and story and yes, marketing even, than on the technical framework required for their games.

            So yeah, please convince your buddies in the indie scene to open source their engine if they have one. Open source games would also be great, but probably a harder sell.

  37. SHHHHHH! Don't tell them! by Internetuser1248 · · Score: 1, Funny

    I am currently starting my own independent game company. If you tell all the big players what they are doing wrong and how to do it better, my chances for success will drop drastically. Sure I could then just go and work for them and get my ideas published anyway, but I don't see any downside to letting major labels die in puddle of their own mediocrity and letting small new startups pick up the slack.

    1. Re:SHHHHHH! Don't tell them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. And you'll be gone in a year, whereas the major labels will be swimming in a pool of their own MONEY.

      Next wannabe.

  38. What? by Guelph666 · · Score: 1

    Insomniac games has been milking Ratchet & Clank since 2002 and Resistance since 2006 with no new IP's in the meantime. They are a failure as far as aiming higher and innovating goes.

  39. Indirectly, yes. by stonecypher · · Score: 1

    "[W]hy is it that game developers are beginning to drown in a culture of fear, or more specifically, a fear of change? Is it because the gaming world has gone too corporate and is no longer exclusive to small teams of genius misfits and creative underdogs?

    Indirectly, yes. Mostly this is because EA can afford the impact of warezers, whereas indies cannot.

    --
    StoneCypher is Full of BS
  40. How about some Facebook game creativity as well? by supremebob · · Score: 1

    While you're at it, can you please develop a creative new Facebook game ideas as well? It seems that almost every Facebook game out there is a variation of farming game. They all give you X number of energy points to do something, and then require you to show up every X hours to collect something or risk losing it.

    Yeah, Yeah... I should be ashamed at myself for even trying these games out. I know, I know.

  41. Money by danbuter · · Score: 1

    Most video games cost millions to make. Why would a major company risk that money by taking chances on a new style of game or innovative major feature? The new, innovative stuff appears to be getting done on small games like minecraft and angry birds. There is not as much money invested, and very few devs, so they can take bigger risks. As these kinds of games get more successful, expect the big companies to make their own versions.

  42. It's all about the budget by tuffy · · Score: 1

    If you're developing some flash game out of your basement, it's easy to take risks and try something new. But if you've got a budget in the millions of dollars - where a sales disaster could put the company under - it's a lot harder to stray too far from the audience's expectations. Much like the movie industry.

    --

    Ita erat quando hic adveni.

  43. unity by codepunk · · Score: 1

    Got that right, I do flash gaming for a living but only because I don't get to choose the technology. If I had my choice unity would certainly be it.

    --


    Got Code?
  44. Hypocrit much? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 2

    I can't believe that someone from Insomniac Games, who has worked on what... 3 series (total) over their 15 year existence... is commenting on innovation.

    They were the developer of the first 3 Spyro the Dragon for the PlayStation, 8 of the Ratchet & Clank titles (the eighth being All 4 One, due out this year), and 3 Resistance games (number 3 due out this year or next year).

    I don't know about Resistance, but the other two series are notable for introducing 1-2 new gimmicks in each new game rather than real innovation.

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    1. Re:Hypocrit much? by Gravatron · · Score: 1

      Wait, you mean 7 ratchet and clanks, they didn't make Size Matters. They have tried to do some interesting things that don't boil down to gimmicks with the series, but it has stayed true to the formula, save for perhaps deadlock.

      Resistance, I dunno. It's an FPS, but the weapons opened up some interesting play styles, and the coop in 2 was quite interesting.

    2. Re:Hypocrit much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't like any of those games personally man. resistance is as generic as they come. What's with FPS's that take 5000 bullets to kill one enemy? Even with headshots? Gayyyy

    3. Re:Hypocrit much? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Wait, you mean 7 ratchet and clanks, they didn't make Size Matters.

      No, I mean 8:
      Ratchet & Clank
      Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando
      Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal
      Ratchet: Deadlocked
      Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction
      Ratchet & Clank Future: Quest for Booty
      Ratchet & Clank Future: Crack in Time
      Ratchet & Clank Future: All 4 One

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    4. Re:Hypocrit much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, Resistance 1 was an fun spin on a shooter (but still just another FPS), but then they did nothing original and crapped out 2 and 3 and managed to make them worse. Look at the reviews of those for proof...

    5. Re:Hypocrit much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Define Innovation.

      Tell me how you innovate when since the SNES consoles have used the same basic controller.

      Now explain how new weapons & techniques are NOT innovation. Revolution vs. Evolution. Innovation is in both but in smaller amounts in Evolution. The problem we currently have in Video Games is we have the FPS, RPG, Action, & Puzzle genre basically. It is difficult to reinvent the wheel when the ability to reinvent anything is hamstrung by the tools one can use.

  45. This has never actually been true! by DeusExInfernus · · Score: 0
    When will people realize there has never been a time when the average Gamer ("hardcore" or "casual") has been under 20-25 years of age?!?

    ..once made up almost exclusively of teen boys...

    ...my... behind!

    Sigh, someone should really add this to Wikipedia's List of Common Misconceptions...

  46. Gamers themselves are to blame just as much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They've made COD and similar titles like Halo the norm because they sell well. We will never see a game with as much "no-hand-holding" guidance as Might & Magic or the King's Quest series. They wouldn't know how to play it, and the statistics show that nobody would buy it.

    Gamers who still enjoy the hobby, if you go by the statistics, largely either stick to one, tried and true game that they can count on (WoW, COD, etc.), and barely spend any time finishing single-player experiences. Remember the article about how the average single-player game got ~7 hours average of playtime? Most people never even finished.

  47. Re:How about some Facebook game creativity as well by daid303 · · Score: 1

    Those games have been around a lot longer then facebook, loads of webgames use the same mechanics. It's something about doing something and getting a reward that triggers an addictive reaction or something like that. In any case, doesn't work on me.

  48. Most games have ALWAYS been formulaic by sirwired · · Score: 1

    I think this is a case of looking on the past with rose-colored glasses. Of course it seems that the industry used to produce more interesting and innovative games, as the innovative and interesting ones are the only ones you remember; the rest have long been forgotten/sold/thrown away, etc. Trust me, shovelware mass-produced crap has always been a large part of the computer gaming industry. I really don't think the problem is getting any worse.

  49. Gotta love slashdot... by tompaulco · · Score: 1

    Gotta love slashdot. Defending downloading and playing games without paying for them and then having the nerve to complain that game developers aren't putting any money into developing innovative titles.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  50. It's your fault... by gosand · · Score: 1

    Seriously. How many games have you bought in the last 12 months?
    This is a problem where an industry eats itself.

    Gamers have gone nuts. One of my neighbors lent us their Wii. Yeah, I know, I'm probably one of the only people in the country that doesn't have one. They asked, and I said OK. So they brought over this huge basket of stuff. Controllers, guitar, skateboard, and a slew of at least a dozen games. There were like 5 variations of "rock band". We had fun with it, mainly playing the sports games. I had to wonder what they spent on it, and how much time they wasted playing it. My 3 kids loved it (all under 7), but quickly became much more annoying. They wanted to play all the time. So we returned it.

    I just think that we participate in this MORE MORE mentality. We have to have more all the time. Get a new game, play it 24/7 for a few weeks, then buy another new game. So ask yourself if you're supporting this system. How many game systems do you have? I know some guys who have 4.

    Look, I'm not saying gaming is bad, I've played games since I rode my bike to the arcade with a pocket sagging with quarters. I even bought/restored/collected arcade games for several years. I still play a few games on my computer (liking Red Eclipse and Super Tux Kart at the moment) but you have to throttle yourself. If you feed the gaming industry machine, it will do nothing but grow and get lazy.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  51. Middlemen by tepples · · Score: 1

    When you're playing with your own money, you can do whatever you want, either in independent films or independent games, and only need to sell to customers

    Such self-distribution isn't always possible. Some leading video game platforms have middlemen that decide who can and can't develop games for the platform, with a selection process biased toward established companies rather than indie startups. And just avoiding those platforms isn't easy because not all video game genres work well on PCs or smartphones. I can go into more detail if you want.

  52. Reading Suggestion by EllF · · Score: 1

    If you're really interested in where the edges of the industry are being expanded, I suggest checking out the guys at GamersWithJobs.com, especially their weekly podcast. It's the best roundup (on a regular basis, even!) of the industry, with a slant towards this type of non-generic gaming. They also come at it like many of us probably do: slightly older gamers ("alpha gamers") who have been playing since the late 80s/early 90s, and who are as much interested in as they are concerned by the commercial evolution of video games. No affiliation, just a fan of what they do.

    --
    We who were living are now dying
    With a little patience
  53. Hey troll: Why'd you avoid a SIMPLE question here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2225174&cid=36390518 Because it shows you for who & what you REALLY are, Linux troll?? Absolutely. Caught red-handed, with your pants down troll, lol....

  54. Not all game concepts work well on PCs by tepples · · Score: 1

    Support smaller developers who you feel are creative enough for your likes

    If I remember correctly, the Humble Indie Bundles are PC-only, but not every gamer is a PC gamer, and not all game concepts work well on PCs. How do you recommend that such "smaller developers who you feel are creative enough" get their products past the middlemen and in front of the audience?

    1. Re:Not all game concepts work well on PCs by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      If I remember correctly, the Humble Indie Bundles are PC-only, but not every gamer is a PC gamer, and not all game concepts work well on PCs. How do you recommend that such "smaller developers who you feel are creative enough" get their products past the middlemen and in front of the audience

      Well, there are two types of gamers left - console and phone. For the console, the only legit development channel for non-established devs is the Xbox Live Indie Arcade, which is $99/year and subject to community approval. I believe Braid started out that way, and there have been a few notable gems (amidst a sea of crap, though).

      For the phone world, there's always iOS, which also has its hits (Angry Birds). People bitch about the approval process and the like, rightfully, but it's also the most console like experience (except Apple's terms are far more lenient and hardware much cheaper than real console development). And yes, complain about app bans and such, not that it's never happened in the console world either (Hot Coffee, anyone? Or now that Nintendo's also had to withdraw a game prior to release...). Then there's always Android as well which has the advantage of no approval process.

      For a developer not willing to spend much money at all, you have PC, Mac and Android. For $99/year each, you can also add Xbox360 and iOS to the mix (though I'd probably suggest iOS over Xbox360 - there are far more channels you can exploit to get your game front and center). I'm not counting hardware costs, assuming people have a computer and a phone already, and probably a console.

  55. "Nice game. Too bad it's only for PC." by tepples · · Score: 1

    To get success in the indie market you don't need huge amount of content and art quality. You'll need a solid game.

    "Nice solid game you got there. I watched the video, and now I'm interested. Too bad it's only for PC and Mac. If you made it for the Wii or PS3, I'd buy a copy. No wait, you can't, because Nintendo and Sony won't let you." What do you recommend for a developer in this position?

    1. Re:"Nice game. Too bad it's only for PC." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiiWare
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_Live_Arcade

      I recommend they wake up. Only Sony doesn't seem to offer a solution for indies yet.

    2. Re:"Nice game. Too bad it's only for PC." by dskzero · · Score: 1

      You can always go XNA and make it for Windows and Xbox. That said, Mac? Are there any indie games that have actually been successful on Mac? people play games on their Macs?

      --
      Oblivion Awaits
    3. Re:"Nice game. Too bad it's only for PC." by lgw · · Score: 1

      Why don't you make games for people instead of for consoles?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:"Nice game. Too bad it's only for PC." by tepples · · Score: 1

      Because people play certain kinds of games on consoles.

  56. Aim higher but make it cheaper? by Animats · · Score: 1

    Aiming higher is tough at $0.99. Although the future of gaming seems to be that the first one is almost free, but items cost money.

    Looking ahead, what's coming? Visuals can continue to improve, but the limitation is the art budget.Movies can now have full photorealism. It just costs upwards of $30 million per hour of screen time. Crowdsourcing? Visit Second Life. Not that many people have the talent to do good art. Also, you need art direction to get a consistent look.

    The big revolution in recent years has been better input, allowing the user to do more things. It used to be that the only thing you could do well in video games was shoot. Even moving was limited. Now there's dance, skateboarding, musical instruments, etc. That's progress.

    Location-based entertainment could go further in that direction, but it's almost died out. The fighter-plane simulator centers are almost gone.

    The success of Farmville amazes me. I can see that some people might like it, but the scale of the thing is far beyond what I would have expected. Happy Farm in China has even more users, but there it's people who moved from the farm to the city that form the bulk of the user base. This is an indication of the real future of gaming - new social money-extraction technologies.

  57. Actually, it's even worse by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    Actually, from the screenshots I've seen, it's not just that three different games have soldiers running around with guns. It's that three different games have soldiers running around with the exact same fucking gun and the exact same extras attached.

    Honestly, I hope that at least some will be single player and moddable, because then maybe I can make or port my own guns to it.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  58. You know what I would like to see? by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1

    More shooters that aren't based in either modern times OR World War II. There are a lot of other conflicts in history that could serve as the setting for a decent FPS or open world game. Spanish-American War? World War I? Civil War? Revolutionary War? Korea? Vietnam?

    Is it because they're afraid to show anyone other than Germans, Imperial Japanese, Terrorists, or Aliens in a negative light?

    1. Re:You know what I would like to see? by demonbug · · Score: 1

      More shooters that aren't based in either modern times OR World War II. There are a lot of other conflicts in history that could serve as the setting for a decent FPS or open world game. Spanish-American War? World War I? Civil War? Revolutionary War? Korea? Vietnam?

      Is it because they're afraid to show anyone other than Germans, Imperial Japanese, Terrorists, or Aliens in a negative light?

      Vietnam has seen several games made (the last one I played was the half-assed Battlefield Vietnam, which would have been great if not for a few major issues). The Korean War is a largely forgotten war in the U.S.; yes, people know that it occurred, but there are very few that could name a single battle or really have a good understanding of the conflict. I do think there is a lot of space for really interesting gameplay there, but it would be tough to market compared to yet another WWII game - and the weapons and tactics are very similar to WWII, so it likely wouldn't be all that different.

      Going back earlier, to Civil War and Napoleonic wars, FPS becomes very difficult to do. Tactics were very different, because you had weapons that were very slow to reload and fire, and generally required massed units working together as opposed to the more rapid, fluid small-unit tactics that lend themselves well to FPSes. I think it would be very interesting to try doing an FPS based in Napoleonic wars, but it would be tough to balance it so it doesn't just turn into a bunch of people running around knifing (or bayonetting) each other (on a related note, can we PLEASE get rid of the widely promulgated idea of instakills with knives?). Can you imagine trying to get a bunch of the kids that play Modern Warfare to sit still for twenty seconds while they reload, and actually work together in a team to mass fire on the enemy? Or the amount of complaining that the musketballs don't go where you aim? It might work as an indie title that appeals to a select group, but it would definitely be a hard sell.

      So I agree, it would be nice to see some more variation in setting - but I think there are some solid reasons why this hasn't (for the most part) happened. People like running around alone or in small teams blasting away at the bad guys, and that just doesn't lend itself well to earlier wars that might otherwise be marketable. Hell, even the cool ideas introduced by Dice in Battlefield 1942 (artillery spotting) and Battlefield 2 (battlefield commander) have largely been abandoned even by Dice themselves, apparently because people are unwilling to do anything but run around and shoot people (yes, I miss medics who are the only way to heal, engineers that are the only way to repair vehicles, scouts that can place cameras for artillery spotting, etc. - you know, actual support roles).

    2. Re:You know what I would like to see? by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1

      I get what you're saying about tactics, but even in those days, there was infantry and all sorts of non-"get in a line and fire in turn at the other guy" combat. It may not have been considered 'gentlemanly' according to the rules of war of the day, but it occurred. For instance, a FPS set during the Seven Years War with you playing the part of a Mohawk warrior.

      I think the tactical style of play and necessity for cooperation inherent in a game where you're not able to be, for all intents and purposes, Rambo hip firing a pair of M60's would be a refreshing change. When you only get 3 shots a minute you better make those shots count, and by placing the story outside of the common battles that were really just two groups facing each other, there is a lot of breathing room without trampling all over history.

      I don't know. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn't. I'm just bored with the same tired crap like everyone else I guess...

  59. remakes natural with increasing slickness by lrnj · · Score: 1

    It's not easy to advance on all fronts at once. If you've got a big team struggling with cutting edge technology, it helps a lot to have everyone on the same track with a nice, clear plan that everybody's well familiar with. There's nothing better for that than having a finished product to point to, and say, "We're doing this, only better, with our new technology, bigger budget, more sophisticated techniques, and greater experience." The same thing is happening in film, since visual effects are advancing so fast.

    There are all sorts of highly original games being made. A lot of the real progress in gameplay is being made in low-budget games that don't get all that much attention because they aren't beautiful like the high-budget games. It just makes sense to prove your gameplay concept with cheap little ugly games instead of wasting a lot of skilled people's time on an experiment. You can always do a sophisticated remake later.

    I don't see the problem with a gorgeous new Zelda, Halo, Madden, and Starcraft every few years, when we're still getting creative games like Portal, World of Goo, Dwarf Fortress, and Minecraft. It's what the audience wants.

    As for the me-too shovelware, that's unfortunate but inevitable (as are the experiments that are plain failures). There are lots of customers who pay up front for games without doing any research (the grandma factor), people who haven't played many games are easily impressed, and unsophisticated investors: someone is going to exploit them, either maliciously or accidentally.

    --
    Learn Japanese RPG -- lrnj.com
  60. Indie by Windwraith · · Score: 1

    I am an indie developer myself. I develop without any regard of publishing. If the idea goes OK with my target audience, I just need to code it.

    Likewise, many of my fellow indie devs aren't constrained by market studies, publisher input, or anything except direct consumer suggestions or even fixes.

    Games in the "industry" are too regulated and expensive to allow such freedom. Look at some open dev diaries from pros, and you will find a lot of "this feature was added/removed because of something our publisher/whatever said".

    The fact that consoles keep scaling graphics wildly, just manages to raise development costs and make the product suffer more because of the investment making it risky.

  61. Mike Acton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mike Acton is a super smart guy but he's also a huge troll. Think of him as an "RMS-figure" in the gaming world. He's given entire speeches where he does nothing but rant for an hour. Most of his talks use the work "FUCK" or some other censorable expletive at least 4-5 times a minute. His slides for talks are him writing on post-it notes and taking pictures of them because he thinks its cute. This is the same guy who will tell you how important it is to make a specific little code pattern optimization because on one compiler it will save you 2 instructions... you know, kinda not seeing the forest for the trees except in this case, it's not seeing the forest because the pine needles are fascinating.

  62. Must Xbox 360 indie games be exclusive? by tepples · · Score: 1
    I'm trying to build a business plan here, so please bear with me.

    For the console, the only legit development channel for non-established devs is the Xbox Live Indie Arcade

    So let's assume I can come up with $1,175 for this ($399 for a PC newer than mine, $299 for an Xbox 360 with a hard drive, and $159 per year times 3 years for App Hub and Xbox Live Gold). Now how do I translate an existing game's game logic to C# or another language supported by XNA (notably, standard C++ is not supported) so that I can write a new graphics engine for it? Or should all games designed for Xbox Live Indie Games be designed from the ground up as exclusive to Windows and Xbox 360?

    amidst a sea of crap, though

    How do you recommend that an indie developer's products get noticed?

    I'm not counting hardware costs, assuming people have a computer and a phone already, and probably a console.

    I already have a PC, but it runs the wrong operating system (something other than Windows), and a retail copy of Windows costs almost as much as a new PC with an OEM copy of Windows, so I'd have to replace it. I already have a phone, but it's the wrong one (Audiovox 8610), so I'd have to replace it and get a substantially more expensive calling plan than the one I'm on. I already have a console, but it's the wrong one (Wii), so I'd have to replace it.

  63. They *are* aiming higher by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

    Halo 4, Call of Duty 7, EA War Shoot Kill Securom Crysis of Duty 2011 Episode 3000! Look at how high those numbers are!

    The sad truth is that's what people want -- utter shit -- and as for-profit companies they're obliged to make it.

  64. Gaming has never been better. by darkwing_bmf · · Score: 1

    You've got the indies producing all kinds of games, you have social games, big budget games, mmos, varying price points for whatever you budget can handle and more games, and different types of games, available than ever before.

  65. Nintendo won't let just anyone develop by tepples · · Score: 1

    Nintendo and Sony won't let you.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiiWare

    http://warioworld.com/apply/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob's_Game

    Nintendo won't let just anyone develop for its platforms. One has to have a dedicated secure office and a track record on someone else's platform before qualifying to buy a Nintendo devkit. This pretty much rules out releasing one's first completed game on a Nintendo platform.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_Live_Arcade

    Did you mean Xbox Live Indie Games or Xbox Live Arcade? These are separate programs. As far as I can tell, the organizational qualifications for Xbox Live Arcade are identical to those for Xbox 360 disc games. And due to XNA framework limitations, Xbox Live Indie Games appears to require in practice that games be exclusive to Microsoft platforms.

  66. Fear of change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is Resistance 3 going?

  67. there're lots of games by Khashishi · · Score: 1

    There are more choices than ever. If you don't like what's coming out of the big corporate game companies, then don't purchase from them. The internet allows everyone to become a distributor. There are plenty of small indie developers with widely varying gameplay. Some of it is crap. Some is awesome.

  68. And at E3, Insomniac Games presents Resistance 27! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mike Acton is responsible for one of the most generic and derivative shooters out there. Put up or shut up buddy.

  69. Ingenuity, pushing the limits, dedication by lordkamon · · Score: 1

    As we continually push the limits of computing power the capabilities and expectations have grown in stride. Maybe what can be done with our new hardware is only partially understood by the programmers. From the days of doom to quake to quake 2 to doom 3 the ground that was taken in each programming step marvelled gamers. With limited computing capabilities, only so much time could be spent on certain areas in the programming aspect. Increase the computing power and the capabilities of a game go from a still bmp image to sprites to complex particle systems which change the story from kings quest text at the bottom of the screen to diablo characters to world of warcraft and its thousands of real time character interactions. the point? the programmers need to know what they have within their grasps

  70. If it's all shit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, in my view, gaming's run into the same problem that faces people in general in other fields. Take movies, for an example: the latest X-Men movie was released recently. It's remarkable in that it wasn't a complete pile of shit like some of the other stuff that comes out. What do I mean by this? Well, one reviewer there mentions that it's a movie that doesn't condescend to the viewer; each character is presented as following their own motivations with less blatant kick-the-doggery than other general-audience flicks. The recent Star Trek reboot was a bit along these lines too.

    And yet, neither is the audience particularly challenged by the film. Technical elements are filled with pseudoscience and only there as an aside to the main plot, which while ultimately formulaic (as anything must, by definition be once it's done), come back around to affirm things that the audience can relate to: normative interpersonal themes, traditional power structures, comedic relief, and so forth. So it is with games, too: they've found the way to do it. Always some new title following principles guaranteed to bring an audience, letting them come in and round the Skinner wheel a few times before running after the next shiny.

    So, we'll get Call of Duty 15, and the big question in people's minds will be the controversy in some scripted scene where the player shoots American citizens. And of course the critical element lurking here is the social one: does it really matter, should it really matter (to myself, for instance) that this will be so? I don't have to play it, afterall, and it would probably serve me better to leave the topic well enough alone. I had some kind of "games ought not to be..." point, but I'm finding it a little distasteful myself.

    Instead, here's a different one. Games, at their best (to me) can be the change they create, as a reflection, in the player. This is the whole e-sports subject again, but specifically, actually doing and discovering things in these games that relate to other fields of human knowledge; refining yourself. Finding unintuitive things that will help you competitively in that game, and learning a bit about procedural parts of the human system: reaction time, intuition, clumping together individual actions to create dominant sequences, inferring strategy from the game as it really is and so forth.

    Here's an example of a game that's still played, by players who have played for over 10 years. And they play the same maps again and again, by and large.

  71. Copy per person vs. per household by tepples · · Score: 1

    Is it really too much to ask that you have separate UI implementations for the console and PC versions of games? Really?

    One problem comes when developers don't even bother to include the console-style UI in the PC version for those people who have home theater PCs. It might have something to do with greed: console multiplayer often allows one copy per household, and they're trying to sell one copy per person.

  72. Apparently the buyers are the problem, by TBBle · · Score: 1

    based on the parent post and hence agreeing with the grandparent's second point

    I didn't personally enjoy the Enslaved demo as much as a colleague of mine did, but certainly Bayonetta was (in my opinion) a quite enjoyable game with a surprising amount of replayability and more depth to the combat system than I am coordinated enough to explore at the higher difficulty levels.

    Without any useful detail I don't know why the parent poster believed those two games are awful, but publishers only want to publish games that are going to sell, and the gaming market is wide, varied and fickle enough that the most accurate predictor of "will sell" is "the previous one with the same name sold", followed closely by "the identical game by a different publisher sold".

    --
    Paul "TBBle" Hampson
    Paul.Hampson@Pobox.Com
  73. handbags by gangwan888 · · Score: 1

    Over the centuries handbags have gone through many adaptations and fashions, but the word handbag was only coined in the 1900s. The start of the twentieth century also heralded the type of handbag we would recognise today - with Handbags getting increasingly smaller and the introduction of handbag fasteners, inner compartments and locks. But that is enough history: clearly the most important time period in terms of handbags was the fifties, which saw the rise of the ultimate handbag designer houses; including Chanel, Louis Vuitton and Hermes. Like Chanels Number 5 perfume, some of these handbags have become instantly recognisable fashion icons; signifiers of the rich and the famous. Sadly, though, this means that showing off your new Louis Vuitton at the office party, or having a stash of Gucci handbags in the wardrobe, is out of the price range of almost everybody. We should be grateful for the Internet, for perhaps giving us mortals a chance to own a genuine Gucci handbag without having to win the lottery or shoplift. The web is so full of second hand designer handbag dealers that auction giant Ebay have branched out with their own dedicated handbag site, e bags. Even better, high street shops and even hypermarkets are increasingly living up to the ideals set by the exclusive and expensive designer houses, and it has never been more possible that you can buy a handbag for eight dollars and pass it off as a unique one-off! Truly this decade ought to be the decade of the handbag: and specifically the stylish and affordable handbag. Handbag fans rejoice!