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Using Crowdsourcing To Identify Vancouver Rioters
Fudge Factor 3000 writes "The Canucks' loss in the last game of the Stanley Cup Finals resulted in complete mayhem in downtown Vancouver. Everything from upturned cars set alight to looting was commonplace. Unfortunately, most of the perpetrators were able to maintain their anonymity by disappearing into the crowds. Fortunately, bystanders took several pictures and videos of the carnage. Now, websites (including both Facebook and Tumblr) have set up pages to use crowdsourcing to identify the hooligans."
People care about hockey? And enough to riot?
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
It's a good idea, but it appears that the photos section on the facebook page has already been vandalized. More than 80% of the photos are multiple copies of photos taken by the media, and another 10-15% are random unrelated photos. I hope they're accepting photos and videos from an email address too.
Facebook's greatest value to humanity may be as a honeypot to stupid people who post their misdeeds for all the public (and law enforcement agencies) to see.
Now websites (in both Facebook and have been set up to use crowdsourcing to identify the hooligans.
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BOTH facebook?? These people mean business!
Your car wasn't totaled in Vancouver, was it?
Really? Really?! Did you even see a single picture from the mayhem? There was so much property damage only because the police was too busy saving people from mob beat downs!
Drop your stupid dogmatic devotion to your specific "ism", get your head out of your ass and actually look at the world around you as it is once in a while.
Those "isolated property crimes" you speak of will cost Vancouver residents and businesses millions of dollars, damages that aren't covered for riots. Not to mention the black eye Vancouver gets now on the world stage.
You must be just willfully blind or just plain stupid not see the violence going on last night.
In short, you are a fucking moron who has tried to inject your naive and childlike political views into a serious, actual issue.
Hey guess what. Fuck you. No seriously fuck you. In Canada we generally have a well ordered, and well behaved society. Lets see we got one guy who got the shit beat of him by 15-20 people because he was trying to protect property. And we have idiots who have this idea that public mischief, rioting, and in general being a danger to everyone else is not worthy of your time?
It wasn't a few cars, it wasn't a few businesses, and it sure the fuck wasn't a few people who got stomped in the face because they tried to stop the fuckers from ruining businesses and looting. And if you are a Canadian. Get the fuck out of the country and go somewhere else. Maybe europe, where they let you destroy someone elses property because your "sensibilities" can be offended, because a sports team lost.
Om, nomnomnom...
This is not a case of CCTV. Rather, these images have been submitted from mobile devices and cameras.
This is not a case of privacy invasion. People have committed criminal acts out in public, fully knowing that people are filming. They're begging to be identified.
Furthermore, the police did not set up these facebook pages; these are set up by concerned citizens who are appalled by the behaviour seen last night. The police have set up a system for submitting evidence, but they have not started a "crowd-sourced" identification initiative as of yet. So maybe the police is doing crowd-sourced evidence gathering, but certainly not analysis.
I want to point out how the police behaved in this riot. They stood their ground, but did not use an unnecessary force. They rarely engaged directly with the rioters; they just held a line, and occasionally fired tear gas, flashbangs, and pepperspray into the crowd. This is one recent case of police in the news NOT confiscating/breaking everyone's recording devices.
I think the Vancouver police and the RCMP deserve some commendation for how they handled this riot. They did not prevent as much property damage as they could have, but on the otherhand, they took a far more measured approach to interaction with the rioters than has been taken in the past and they are seemingly embracing social media, rather than raging in fear of it.
Before you comment, perhaps you'd like to do some research and educate yourself. Here: http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=369127
Coles Notes: 150 people injured, some quite seriously. Millions of dollars in damage, which tax payers and insurance payers (translation: the populace - you know, the people who are working together now to help find the criminals) will have to pay for. Perpetrated not by a crowd going insane over the angst of a lost hockey game but by anarchists and professional criminals taking advantage of a large crowd of people which could provide cover for their activities while blame was placed on the hockey fans rather than the criminals perpetrating the crimes.
Forgive me if I disagree with you, strongly, and am very happy to see initiatives like this to catch the criminals and happier still to know that the hockey fans often stepped in to try to hold back the criminals from their desired goals.
It's just you, and they're not. They've crowdsourced evidence gathering, but this is no different from working with crimestoppers to hunt vandals. Instead of calling in tips, they're asking the public to submit video evidence, not to analyze it. The facebook pages are not police initiatives.
No one has the right to destroy someone elses property just because they think they can get away with it. these are not people trying to make a point or protesting some injustice these are just hooligans that are obviously more then willing to make someones elses life worse if they can get away with it and I do not understand why anyone would want them to get away with it.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
But a sports team LOST! What is the suffering of a few people in the face of such injustice!
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
I agree entirely with your sentiments, except that I'm European, so I really am not sure what you're blathering on about at the end there. You seem to be under some misapprehension than rioting here is tolerated or legal, while it is obviously neither.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Charge the NHL with inciting riot and civil disorder, with co-defendents Vancouver and Boston.
Or maybe we should outlaw sports completely, seeing as they seem to cause insanity. :p
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Saying "Europe" makes as much as saying "The Americas" - it is a collection of countries which are far from homogeneous. That's kind of a big flag highlighting that you might not know what you're talking about.
Lots of vandals have been caught in photos, but soon criminals like these will simply use an IR device to to activate new features patented by Apple to disable everyone's cameras.
Wow, how do you mange to sound more like a dick with each word you write?
You realize this isn't some vigilante man hunt, right? It's just people looking at pics of crimes in progress and seeing if they recognize anyone. If they do, they report them to the police and let justice take its course.
As to this:
"At least rioters are just violent pricks and adrenaline-fueled idiots; you guys sound like the sort of vengeful, soulless libertarians who would shoot a man rather than let him walk away with your TV"
I don't even know what to say. People smashing property for no reason are worse than people trying to defend their own property. Go fuck yourself.
Would you like to live in a world where society sets the standards and cooperates with one another to ensure that everyone follows that standard, or would you like to live in a world where the government sets the standards and they are enforced by the police in opposition of society? Because your statement makes me think that you *prefer* a police state. For me, ideally police aren't necessary. People are respectful of each other and peer pressure is enough to dissuade people from stepping over the line (even if they are excited about something). Where you see people ratting on their peers, I see people taking a stand on what they will accept in their society. If you don't want to help the police, maybe you need *more* community involvement, not less.
What are you even talking about? First, these are all videos citizens recorded of crimes happening in front of their eyes in public streets. None of this is coming from the police. If someone is identified, a police expert will evaluate that. If it looks like a match, they'll press charges. If there's enough evidence to convince a judge, they'll be prosecuted. Do you think we run our justice system with some facebook/hot-or-not hybrid? Wow.
Crowdsourcing? Sometimes you don't even need that, sometimes a muppet hands himself in because he LOVES FACEBOOK SO MUCH! Honestly. Read it and weep for humanity.
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
People in Vancouver are standing up and saying this type of behaviour is unacceptable. Last night, they did this by taking pictures, creating forums to share evidence, and guarding businesses. Today they gathered downtown to help with the cleanup. For those of you searching for an Orwellian scenario in all of this, there's nothing to find.
No fucking shit. Parent is a pure lawlessness apologist. The cops are asking the public to help them identify potential perpetrators or witnesses. Whether it's Facebook, Youtube, a neighborhood watch or people who saw a criminal act by pure fucking accident, it's all the same thing.
It's a citizen's duty to help out the authorities when crimes are committed. Taxpayers are insurance policy holders are ultimately going to pay for this riot, and I don't think it's any kind of tyranny or thought control for the police to ask citizen's who may have evidence of crimes to provide them with evidence.
I suspect the parent has a few philosophical views aligned with the anarchists, and has at least some sense of common cause.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
to quote Samuel L Jackson: "English motherfucker, do you speak it?"
The Vancouver Police and RCMP (Abbotsford, Surrey, Maple Ridge, and probably most of the cops in the metro area) knew that if they pushed too hard it would get bad.
I watched the news on CBC and CTV live, and CBC itself has enough video to catch the people who set the cars on fire, because 4 of those cars (the prius?, the truck, and the two copcars) were right outside the CBC's offices. CTV has video of people looting the HBC and London Drugs because Rob Brown was caught right in the thick of it.
As for the police breaking up the crowds, what they did was broke them up starting in front of the CBC and Canada Post area and whittled them down by barricading the streets using the riot gear and making the crowds smaller and smaller, eventually there was just one group of probably 100 people who continued to vandalize things, but the perps who started it were probably long gone by then.
And contrary to media reports, some of the people in the buildings were employees keeping looters out, they were plainclothed and had fire extuingishers.
The Coach store, was looted (you can tell from TV) and that's probably the only store that was actually carrying expensive items near the windows. London Drugs and HBC, the window/door areas tend to be where cosmetics and checkout tills are, so I imagine the dollar value in merchandise stolen was probably in the low thousands, and the actual glass and building damage might exceed the merchandise losses. The coach, LV, Hermes, Tiffany and Gucci stores are all located around the same Hotel, but the coach building is more visible. The LV store is actually located inside the Hotel, so if they smashed the windows they might have got away with the display items in the window, but not much else.
The Futureshop, people were trying to get into, but I can tell you that would have failed since it's on the second floor and has the same kind of barricade the London Drugs has. The London Drugs people actually kicked-in the barricade. My observation here is that the barricade failed because it wasn't designed to have 10 people kicking it for 20 minutes with no law enforcement around.
The Sears was broken into, as well. Again, the same as the London Drugs and the HBC, mostly cosmetics and checkout tills are near the entrances.
Photos and Video, everyone not looting had their camera out, the VPD has appealed to the public to send them all the photos and video.
Note that a lot of these were smartphones, did you know that the EXIF data will not only tell the cops where you were, but what time, so your photos can be triangulated with other peoples images to pinpoint the instigators.
On the other hand, also note that people came up from Seattle and Victoria. So 100,000 people downtown, and those people who came up to start things may have not even be from the Vancouver area.
Some fault of the riots happening can be pinned on how much checking they were not doing to prevent people from bringing bags and lighters/matches.
I should clarify; around slashdot, we're awfully big on civil liberties, personal privacy and libertarianism (Hey, government, stay out of my business!). That said, we don't spend nearly enough time on civic duty. Civic duty and civil liberties are inextricably linked: a society will remain well ordered if either, there are no civil liberties and no civic duty, or there are lots of civil liberties, but they come at a price: that of civic duty.
Consequently, if you want the government to stay out of your life, you owe your society the duty of reporting it if your neighbor steals from the convenience store while you're watching. The police will follow up on the allegations, do their own investigation, and they may ask you to testify. But that's the price of civic liberties.
Why should the police have shown any restraint at all?
Because they professionals, not thugs, and are sworn to uphold the law?
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
I was just in downtown Vancouver today, and you should see how many people were down there wearing Canada/Canuck Jerseys, volunteering their time to clean this city up. People are writing apologies to the world for this embarrassing behavior by a few people, on the temporary plywood that's been put up in store windows.
Those are true hockey fans.
Those are true Canadians.
Two different police departments aren't necessarily going to handle things the same way.
Thing is, it's not just "a video from one guy". I was watching CBC, and they were showing crowds with enough camera flashes going off that I think if one of the rioters was epileptic, he would have gone into seizures by just looking over his shoulder. Many dozens of cameras and phones lifted up to catch what was going on. Someone higher up mentioned photoshopping in someone you don't like, which wouldn't work because of the twenty or thirty other pictures of the same scene without that person there. And other people have mentioned that the police are asking for their help. To address your initial point, the vandalism, and even assaults that resulted in the most minor of injuries, are all crimes. It's their job to try to catch, and prosecute, the perpetrators, whether or not it's a pain in the ass to do. Even arresting one person with evidence from multiple sources would be a win, as far as I'm concerned.
Very wise statement. Government is a two-way street. If intelligent people don't play a role, dumb, psychopathic/sociopathic people will take up the banner and run with it.
"I simply believe that this manner of searching for suspects could change the way we procure evidence..."
Actually, it's always been legal for citizens to volunteer information and help. Kind of the idea behind the wanted poster thing.
No kidding - if one of those had been one of my cars, I'd be calling for blood. I like my stuff way more than I like 99.999% of humanity, and if you're one of the rioting whackjobs that thinks damaging other people's stuff without any provocation is acceptable, then I personally think you should be removed from society or possibly existence. I've never understood why people think property crimes are somehow trivial. My stuff represents an investment of my time and effort to acquire, and a lot of it has a lot of sentimental value to me. I'd feel personally violated if somebody just destroyed it.
People in Boston, upon hearing about the victory, said "eh." And then resumed shouting at each other in traffic.
you guys sound like the sort of vengeful, soulless libertarians who would shoot a man rather than let him walk away with your TV
Not a libertarian but if you have my TV then you're trespassing, and I probably will shoot you if you try to leave with it. Put it down and try to flee.. 50/50 chance I'll shoot you. Stay where you are while the friendly local police pay a visit, and you're safe.
Sounds like a reasonable deal to me.
Also not a vigilante. I'm only concerned if the TV is mine. If it belongs to somebody else I'll just let them shoot you. I'm not looking for reasons to shoot you. I just spent a lot of time doing work I'd prefer not to do to get that TV. If you're taking it then it shows a complete lack of respect for basic civility and, more importantly, for me. Therefore, I feel no need to respect simple things like your continued existence.
Oh, and you're safe in that dark alley with me (assuming you're not holding my TV).
Let me get this straight.
You're glorifying and condoning destruction of property, violence and cheering for more violence and senseless destruction. You're also using "mob energy" and "excitement" as justification for said senseless destruction and violence.
All because you think the city you're living in is a bit dull. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Eat the rich.
...you go to a riot and occasionally a soccer match breaks out!
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Reportedly a few members of the local anarchist crowd brought flammable materials, gasoline, fire extinguishers (to be used to smash windows or as weapons) , gas masks, bandanas etc, and came *prepared* to start a riot. The majority of the trouble there was caused by a few individuals (apparently the police arrested around 100 people, when its in a crowd of 100,000 people that's not a high percentage. They will be arresting more).
In short, the embarrassing riot we saw was propagated by a small number of people who were actively intent on doing so, and apparently brought tools to aid them in that process. I am sure a few people joined in when they saw the mayhem, but if it hadn't have been for the inciters they might not have.
Apparently one guy brought his truck downtown and parked it on CBC plaza so that it could be lit on fire. It was apparently set up to do so and burnt far harder and more violently than a normal truck might have (the description I heard was someone saying the truck blew up like it was in a Hollywood movie).
I sincerely hope they nail the fuckers who were inciting the riot, and nail them hard - perhaps 20 years in prison would make them reconsider the error of their ways, or at least keep them off our streets for the next few hockey seasons.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid