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Skype Forcing Mac Users To Upgrade Client
mijkal writes "Nevermind a huge outcry over the iTunes-like behemoth of Skype v5 for Mac. Users with v2.8 are being pushed an update to v5 regardless of update preferences. I even restored v2.8 from TimeMachine only to have it update itself again within minutes, offering only an option to relaunch the app."
I think SIP, XMPP, and Asterisk are about to get a huge boost.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
5.0 is much better than 2.8 on resource usage and such ... doesn't make the machine so hot or chew the cpu or have as poor performance.
It's not Apple pushing the update...
You mean like the Windows monoculture?
--
BMO
Monoculture? In OS X, I can edit and recompile their open-sourced Kernel or use a variety of Finder replacements. The same for their web browser etc. Go troll Windows users.
It's a surprise because mac users are usually happy when someone else decides what's best for them.
Because it started before MS took over. Skype jumped from a good 2.8 client on the Mac to a 5.0 Mac client that brought in the awful Windows UI.
I've had this happen to me with a version of Skype for Windows. I know I set it to not autoupdate, but that was worth fuck-all, apparently. The old Skype was tons more configurable and worked better - for me - than any of the newer versions.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
I quit, restarted and even did check for updates. It didn't force me to do upgrade. *shrug*
-Bucky
They are a pain in the ass for average users to install, configure, and use. Skype isn't. That's why Skype succeeded in becoming wildly popular, and those half-assed alternatives haven't.
Seriously, Jabber alone is one of the biggest OSS failures we've ever seen, behind maybe only Diaspora. It got a huge amount of hype and attention, but could never make anything of it. Sure, there are a small number of companies that use it internally, but it has never really progressed beyond that. It has never gone mainstream in any measurable way.
You mean like the Linux fragmentation?
*rings doorbell and runs away*
--
BMO
you mean you don't know how to change shells and file managers in windows ?
i'll give you the recompile thing for the kernel... what do you do with it ? MacOS is not open though, by far.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
because it's not coming from ms ?
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
So does this mean PPC Mac users are now cut off?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
As opposed to application developers simply including such a forced upgrade feature on their own?
Not even remotely true. This is a third-party product using its own update mechanism. Apple has never been involved in the updating of Skype, nor is Microsoft involved when Skype is run on Windows.
People, and their ignorate hatred, truly amaze me.
Wrong.... Apple doesn't have a software update mechanism for apps. There's a common in-app update system called Sparkle that most Mac apps use (like many Windows apps use SafeInstall), but it's entirely 3rd party, and I'm not sure that Skype even uses it.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
Plenty of Apps that require connectivity to online networks force updates from time to time. Guess what? Steam had a required update?!?!? Blizzard forced users to run updates to continue using World of Warcraft?!!! Oh noes!
Seriously. I get that there is massive FUD now that Microsoft has bought out Skype, but that doesn't mean every single bit of normal behavior (like locking out and forcing updates on old versions of clients) is somehow a malicious news-worthy event in some grand conspiracy.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
or perhaps it was already in the pipeline... you may now return to your favorite conspiracy theory.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I've been using Skype video conferencing for the past 5 years to take an online Spanish class, and for the past several months it has been terrible. There have been many instances of dropped calls, degraded call quality, frozen video, etc. Throw in the v5 UI fiasco and it was time for a change.
A few weeks ago we started trying alternatives (MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, AIM, and a few others) and finally settled on ooVoo [http://www.oovoo.com], which is not a perfect replacement, but works much better than Skype in the areas that matter. The video is much more clear and we have not suffered a single dropped call.
"To make a mistake is only human; to persist in a mistake is idiotic." Cicero
Who is moderating this troll up? His post is utter nonsense and completely incorrect.
"To make a mistake is only human; to persist in a mistake is idiotic." Cicero
There is "Skip this version" button for me? What's the matter?
Did you consider that old versions of Skype contain vulnerabilities? So how is this much different than Google pushing out Chrome updates that fix vulnerabilities?
It's a surprise because mac users are usually happy when someone else who's competent decides what's best for them.
FTFY.
If you haven't been paying attention, those folks at Skype who released 5.0 are *not* competent, at least design-wise.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
I do not mind a new version to fix issues. My only pain with it is that some companies force new interfaces on you, sometimes completely ignoring their previous interface's logic. Skype did that to us and every single person I talk to hates the new interface with a passion. When a group of programmers keep wondering for minutes how to switch to chat, how to conference someone in, or why you have new little icons without/instead of text, I cannot imagine what your grandma/grandpa does when this happens. It took them significant time to figure the original out, now they have to re-learn it.
Now with MS as the owner I fear worst. Why ? Well I am not a regular Word/Excel user. I used Openoffice (before it became a slow bloat), then switched to Apple's Pages/Numbers. Both work fine for my needs (I am not a DTP guy, at most I create technical documents for users/techs). Where I work we can get MS Office for free, and I bought a $10 copy for home too.... Then the horror came: EVERYTHING changed since the last time I used the product. Everything I learned/got used to suddenly was hidden inside menus, buttons, drop-downs and sometimes super simple tasks needed excessive clicking. MS does this kind of stuff regularly: with their OS and with their other products. I just simply hate it.
The point here is not to bash MS and Skype for innovating, nor the upgrades (would be nice if I did not have to buy Office every 2 years to read the idiotic new format they invented to make me buy it again though). Companies should provide a way to use their software in a "minimal/simple" mode - IMO 99% of Word/Excel users - including techs/admins/engineers - would only need this mode. Also when you "innovate" keep an option to keep a function in the menu where it was. No one - I repeat: NO ONE - wants to keep re-mapping their brain to remember new locations in 10+ different software every single year.
Impossible? With menus, you just need menu NEW and menu OLD, and just put the same crap in one where you had it and where you think it should be now. Maybe allow the user to publish which menu they use and make better decisions about changing stuff around in every release.
But then again, maybe all the changes make people think that they have a new and enhanced product? I see the same crap in a new potty with new buttons on it year after year and maybe I am too old to put up with it...
An Update On Skype For Mac
April 1
77 replies, the last posted April 16.
Download.com alone has logged over 400,000 downloads of Skype 5.1for the Mac since May 27. Skype for Mac
FaceTime is a 13 MB download, Skype 20 MB.
Close enough.
Skype is a VoIP or the masses.The client will be shaped by their needs and not yours. That is the price you pay for being able to call out to 700 million users.
Skype has always auto-dated for me. It's been doing that for years. Never found a way to turn that off, either -- not that it really bothers me.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Unless theyve changed something... forcing this upgrade (which doesnt seem to happen when i open my client) would cause all of the ppc mac users to lose skype access.
5 doesnt have a universal binary release...
i use skype for a lot of meetings and stuff.. losing it would seriously suck.
I've been using a skype text conference as an invite-only chat room for some of my online friends. Why not IRC? Because skype keeps track of all history and logs so you don't have to idle in the room 24/7 to see what people said when you were away. I have found nothing as convenient and suitable to our purposes. Now, I'm starting to worry about the future. Does anyone have a suggestion for a different system?
It's a surprise because mac users are usually happy when someone else decides what's best for them.
Mac users are happy when Steve Jobs decides not best for them, and not just some random "someone".
or since MS is pushing total restructuring, they're trying to streamline and minimize the effect of layoffs. step one: sync people to the same version of the software to allow a cut in support staff.
corporations aren't as clever as you think. they're on the level of alligators, maybe hyenas.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I get used to you making massive leaps of faith when it comes to figuring out what's happening in reality, usually relying on your hubris to shape your perception of the world to one that suits your notions of conspiracy, but this one is refreshingly inane. The glaring inconsistency between your alleged scheme and reality is the update isn't being forced to all users. All you have to do is read some of the comments in this very thread, strangely which were posted before your accusations, and you'll see lots of people who have been offered the v5 upgrade, and simply declined to accept it, and continue to run their older versions.
Until you can show that both the update is being forcibly pushed to people regardless of their intentions (both explicit and implicit), and that the v5 being pushed contains backdoors or other such shady, scary things that make you weep in the darkness, you don't have a fucking leg to stand on. Not that wobbly, nonsensical reasoning isn't your forte, so I'm sure you'll carry on, forever increasing the number of players in this dastardly plot you have apparently single-handedly exposed at such great personal risk, and forever twisting the assumed reasoning employed by said players behind said plot into some grotesque New-World-Order-meets-Alex-Jones-blowing-David-Icke-on-ice fandango, consistently trading sympathetic ears for cold shoulders as you go.
It's always fun to watch you effortlessly void your bowels of logic on Slashdot. Your trite, effete offerings regularly remind me of Carl Sagan's wonderful abridgement of the irrational discourse that followed the improved imagery of Venus, when the Venusian atmosphere was first clearly visible:
Obervation: We can't see anything.
Conclusion: Dinosaurs.
Carry on, dear boy.
No they didn't. What an idiotic, misinformed comment.
would stop.....and now people are complaining that they are being forced to accept a change (like many such internet service based apps).
I get being concerned about MS dropping support for smaller OS's (although it doesnt make a lot of business sense). But overreacting to everything that happens at Skype like we have seen in the last month is just silly.
Poor little mac users... Snif! Meanwhile, I'm sure no one has noticed Apple forcing their monopolistic business strategy upon e-ve-ry-one! At this point, you'd rather stop enjoying the bottom of hole and start evaluating how astronomic the contrast is between your petty considerations and what's actually going on! This blog seems poisoned by brain-dead sibling-less geeks and other brainwashed puppets. Drop the whining and focus on what really matters. P.S.: The number of pissed off replies to this post will be inversely proportional to the chance of improving the quality of Slashdot news.
no but Apple engineered and implemented the mechanism in their OS that allows software 'updates' to be forcibly pushed onto people that don't want it.
Sorry. You're confusing Apple with Microsoft.
You can completely turn off Software Updates. And even if you have them enabled, they do not actually install until, and unless, YOU give the go-ahead.
There simply is no such thing as a "forced update" on OS X.
What's your next guess?
Apple's software never installs anything without user permission. It shows you what it wants to update, and you can accept it or reject it.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
>Microsoft owned Skype, I'd point out.
Not yet, actually. They've agreed to buy them, but the deal hasn't closed yet.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Don't sugar-coat it, tell us how you really feel.
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
> In OS X, I can [...] use a variety of Finder replacements.
The Finder still has horrid usability problems, but I guess that I'm the only Mac user who needs to manipulate files on his disk drives, so no one else notices.
Care to list all the non-sucky Finder replacements out there? I've yet to find one.
They have been churning versions out for Windows quite a bit now. They are trying to get everyone on updated code it seems and I bet it has something to do with all of the folks publishing information on how to access their infrastructure. I won't be surprised if they turn a switch and block all of those folks here soon....
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
Citation needed - I've seen no such exploit. I call bullshit! What has been released is supposedly code to "talk" their protocol.
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
Your ignorance is staggering.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
It's a surprise because mac users are usually happy when someone else decides what's best for them.
The problem is that just about any non-Mac-user thinks he is that "someone".
You can use TM to get it back... And then what? Hope the mechanism that automatically updates the program doesn't kick in *this* time? Do you also rewind sports games, and hope that the goalie saves the ball this time?
I reverted from 5.0 to 2.8 because 5.0's DTMF implementation is horribly fucking broken and shitty. It fails consistently if somewhat randomly (that is, I can't predict _when_ in a call it will be broken, but I can predict that it _will_ be broken), and they fall back on some sort of dopey standards excuse. Alls I knows is, before the upgrade DTMF worked with any voicemail/conferencing/phonetree system I dialed with 2.8 but failed almost always at some point using 5.0. They need to digitize a PCM sample of all DTMF tones around the world and produce them for as long as you press the number key, with the appropriate tone for the appropriate country (if there's any local variations) given the phone #.
Also, while 2.8 would choke on phone #s without leading country codes (it would say that my unlimited US/Canada plan was not eligible to dial a 10-digit US number, retardation) and 5.0 seemed to handle it better, the 5.0 interface is AWFUL, and it doesn't let you put phone #s in the 'contact' text entry bar, you have to call up the dialpad.
No conspiracy. Skype 5.x just blows.
Is that good or bad? Or deliberately ambiguous?
It sounds like the opposite of "Skype 5.x just sucks", so now I'm confused.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
It's a surprise because mac users are usually happy when someone else decides what's best for them.
Mac users are happy when Steve Jobs decides not best for them, and not just some random "someone".
True enough, but the thing is, Jobs is much more often right than wrong. He's hired teams of hundreds of people to ensure his user interfaces don't suck and therefore aren't despised, as Skype 5.0 is. Steve Jobs is quite possibly the only living example of a "benevolent despot."
"We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
Well, Apple allows application developers to include arbitrary code in their applications, including code that forces you to update, so it's clearly Apple being evil here.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
except MS does not yet own it.
keep trying neckbeard
I get a choice when I log in: not now, skip, or upgrade - just like every other app I have. Not a problem here...
I think therefore I can't be ~TTNH
Well, if things played out anything like they did here in Sweden then all your contacts were on ICQ (the early adopters, the geeks, those with some basic computer skills), then MS started pushing MSN Messenger (or Live Messenger or whatever they've named it these days, most people just call it "MSN"), all the non-tech savvy people (including a lot of girls) went "OMG! Instant messages to my friends? over the internet? Wow! That's so cool and new and never done before!". Then suddenly those using ICQ who desperately tried to get their friends to use ICQ instead ("Come on, it's got offline messages!" (Yes, MSN finally got that a few years ago but for a very long time it did not have it)) found themselves using MSN Messenger as well.
Luckily these days there are plenty of multi-protocol IM clients....
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Upgrade, or we won't let you connect. Works for WOW.
Ain't Apple users used to being forced to do what the maker of software wants to?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You can do one of two things:
- Find the temp folder where Skype downloads its new copy, find out what name it gives the file, and replace it with a 2.8 version, then remove wheel rights so it can't replace it
- adjust your hosts file so that Skype can't auto-update. Unfortunately I don't know what the updater connects to.. time to dust off your favorite network scanning apps.
On the side, I think we all would do well to keep bombing Skype support with mails that we see abolsutely no reason to switch to the bloated leviathan with the useless interface adustments and would greatly appreciate it if they would at least introduce a "classic" mode.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it well worth the effort.
I use MS Paint all of the time. When you need to take a screenshot, cut part of it out, and quickly cut that into a new JPG, PNG or into a document it is quite good.
I don't have a graphics program on most of the PCs I use, work or home. I have gimp, but rarely use it.
MS Paint is (was) easy to use, good to use (from a rat-race office documentation perspective) and serves its purpose well.
In comparison, the new windos 7 MS Paint drives me nuts, mostly due to the 'ribbon'.
Actually, while we are on topic, the whole MS Office suite drives me nuts due to the 'ribbon'.
So, you are now forced to upgrade Skype? Well, MS would do the same for MS Office if it could... and appear to have tried very hard to do so.
Meanwhile, this - amongst other serious annoyances (CD music - and nothing else - being disabled, serious issues with DVD software, serious sound issues, annoying system popups) are driving me to install XP over the top of my Laptop Windows 7. Yes, work will move to W7, and yes, I know it's Windows. So, back we go. It's Win98 all over again.
Software upgrades may be a fact of life in IT.. but some of the software I use is over 10 years old now (GMUD is a good example) and works fine. I see no serious reason for the 'improvements' in the W7 MS Paint.. and I'd really like access to the XP version. If worst comes to worst, there is always GIMP.
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It's not Apple pushing the update...
Just this once it is not.
Remember how iTunes and Quicktime swiftly tried to take over windows boxes, installing themselves all over and upgrading again and again and again? You seriously think Microsoft will now pass on such a unique opportunity to "gather user data"?
The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
....that the world doesn't revolve around them. In OS *and* app terms.
It's like trying to figure out where the flush handle is on some of the more esoteric new-age toilets out there. Enjoy.
This ain't no upwardly mobile freeway This is the road to hell
When Microsoft took over, people complained that non-MS platforms would stop getting updates. Now that updates are released (which is more than the original skype did in the last few years!), that's a problem too?
Personally I'm hoping that this is a sign that Linux support is on the way too...
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
Steve Jobs is quite possibly the only living example of a "benevolent despot."
Unless you are into p0rn ;)
Then suddenly those using ICQ who desperately tried to get their friends to use ICQ instead ("Come on, it's got offline messages!" (Yes, MSN finally got that a few years ago but for a very long time it did not have it))
MSN Messenger has always had offline messages. They were called "Hotmail".
AC says something stupid! Film at 11!!
No, I don't remember the scenario you outlined. Could it be because it's false?
Follow that herd Matt! Don't put any critical thought into your post!
That's a separate service (e-mail). ICQ allowed you to send messages that would be cached by the IM servers and delivered when the person you were talking to came online again.
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
I would have no issue updating to the current version if it were implemented right. I tried it as soon as it was released and guess what. Just opening the main application window with absolutely no activity going on, no chat in progress, no video call, no phone call nothing, it uses about 60% CPU!!!! This does not happen with the Windows version.
Apart from that the UI is now hideously ugly, and over-sized. It's the God complex everyone in the software industry develops after a while. They start thinking they are indispensable and so important they have to take away all desktop real estate and be in user's face all the time, run as a system service etc. When in fact you are just a dumb chat application, so get the fuck out of the way in the minimal interface, like Google talk does.
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
Imagine what a wonderful world we'd live in if stupid people quit using the phrase "walled garden" in an attempt to sound intelligent.
That's a separate service (e-mail).
And MSN Messenger at least tried to integrate the IM service and the e-mail service. For example, I seem to remember that MSN Messenger would alert the Hotmail user to new e-mail messages upon login. So instead of adding separate infrastructure (a clone of e-mail within an IM service), MSN Messenger used its existing infrastructure.
Ah, but the email integration only worked if you were using Hotmail/Live, any other email account and it didn't work. Eventually the buckled and added offline messaging though.
And I don't really see it as a clone of email, it's still just IM messages except they are cached on the server so when the user that received an offline message logs on again the client fetches the messages and displays them to the user in a regular conversation window. IIRC ICQ also let those who had set their online status to invisible gets "offline" messages immediately but the person sending them would see it as an offline message.
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
What are you smoking and where can I get it?
This has *nothing* do do with Apple, or any update mechanism supplied by Apple. This is entirely down to Skype alone.
Seriously, when you Anti-Apple trolls come out, you just barge things like "facts" right out of the way!
And I don't really see it as a clone of email, it's still just IM messages
To me, both e-mail and IM are messages; e-mail messages just tend to be longer.
except they are cached on the server so when the user that received an offline message logs on again the client fetches the messages and displays them to the user
This part perfectly describes e-mail.
in a regular conversation window.
Some e-mail clients have added a "conversation view" of recent messages sent to and from a given address.
IIRC ICQ also let those who had set their online status to invisible gets "offline" messages immediately but the person sending them would see it as an offline message.
Which isn't very different from having T-bird or Outlook Express open alongside your IM client.
... and I'm Skype.
Mac: Is there an app for that?
Skype: (Pulls out a gun.) Get on your knees pretty boy! You're taken my app... one way... or another...
Mac: Noooooo! Jobs! Help!
Jobs: (In dark corner chair, laughing. Softly...) Yes, you will take it. And more... so much more...
I8-D
This is what I was getting at. (Proprietary Skype protocol and all that)
Works for tons of apps that require you to connect to their special service in their special way. Hence my sarcastic "newsflash".
Apologies for the confusion. "walled-garden", which often applies to Apple platforms, was not used to refer to iThings in this case, but rather, to Skype.
I got the sarcasm :)
/. code changes? (apart from noticing things break, but that's a universal of code changing, andywhere)
I guess we'd have to include apps that are all server-side, then. Who knows when
This.
I've mod you +1 "Depressing and true" if I could.
Now, I have to get back to this lovely situation where my old work PC had a registered (and working!) version of Visio 2003.. and I'm now told I need a new licence for Visio 2007 for this new office PC.. ... ... *sigh* ... ... ...
Meanwhile, I have replaced Frontpage with NVU - for similar reasons.
You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
well I guess my ignorance matches the level of your rudeness then
do anonymous coward comments need approved by /. editors before they appear?
AC comments start at Score:0 and need to be moderated up by a randomly-chosen established user to show up at the default threshold of Score:1. Logged-in users' comments start with Score:1; established users' comments start at 2. Lower your viewing threshold to 0 to see other AC comments.
What's an "instant message"?
And perhaps as importantly, "should I care"?
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"