Valve's Team Fortress 2 Goes Free-To-Play

heptapod writes "Valve has announced that Team Fortress 2 is now free to play. 'We've been toying with the idea of making Team Fortress free-to-play ever since the Mann-conomy update [in September 2010],' said Valve's Robin Walker. 'Team Fortress 2 would only be monetized by microtransaction payments. No advertising model will be pursued, Walker said. No premium subscription model will be used. No cynical "pay-to-win" options will be implemented, he assured.'"

Comments

Need a First Post here!

[Anonymous Coward]

Need a First Post here!
Need a First Post here!

Splitting hairs

[pushing-robot]

No cynical "pay-to-win" options will be implemented, he assured.

No, it's more of a pay-to-not-lose.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

Think most of their gimmicks have been around customizing character looks rather than altering combat ability. In my book that's perfectly fine.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Nimey]

The only things you can buy in-game is stuff that you can earn with enough gameplay.

Besides, all of those items have trade-offs versus standard kit. It's not like you can buy a gun for each class that clearly bests anything else.

Re:Splitting hairs

[The MAZZTer]

Unlockable items are meant to be balanced with the default set. Even if all you have is the default set the idea is you still can play well against players with unlockables. Some players even say most of the default weapons have an edge against unlockables.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about ...

Nothing that can be bought cannot be easily gotten in a few hours of playing, besides hats anyways, those take a bit longer but do nothing but cosmetic changes.

Gtfo with your idiotic bitching.

Re:Splitting hairs

[FrostDust]

Most of the purchasable items that affect stats can be acquired during normal gameplay via the random drop or crafting systems. The cash store was introduced as a shortcut to people who didn't want to invest time in randomly getting a certain item they wanted, but it's still possible to acquire these items by spending no more money than the initial purchase of the game.

Also, the items were introduced as alternate play styles for each class. People complain about some items being over/underpowerd, but that's true of every game. You can still play well with just the default weapons.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Tr3vin]

No, I've played the game since release and you do not need to pay for any items to not lose. While they do have weapons that have different stats, everything is balanced fairly well. Victory depends more on your team's formation and how well they can play than anybody's items. Some people get anxious when they don't immediately have everything available and Valve is being sure to take advantage of that. Valve has also been really good to the community. When they first started selling items, they decided to share profits the fans that had made the various items. If I remember correctly, many of them actually flew to Valve headquarters so they could pick up checks for around $40k.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really. Quite a few of the weapons are seriously overpowered.
Want to know why barely anyone complains about it? Because they equally use those overpowered weapons.

Crates tend to have good stuff in them most of the time. These require bought keys to open.
This in turn creates a rich / poor divide, actually, it is more of a rich / poor / doesn't care divide. Regardless, the rich tend to ruin the game for the other 2 anyway.

Quite a lot of people still don't like the MannCo update. I, for one, would have preferred it to have been separate.
And I would gladly pay for it to have been kept separate.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really. Quite a few of the weapons are seriously overpowered.

Like...?

Cool nonexplanatory post bro.

Re:Splitting hairs

[filthpickle]

the game is flawed as fuck....and I still have fun everytime I play it. Even when I am raging against grenadiers. But. I still have fun.

Re:Splitting hairs

[kcitren]

Now that the Backburner has compression blast capabilities [even with a higher fuel cost], I think it's slightly overpowered. Natascha is a little overpowered as well, it's slowdown effect ensures anyone caught in it's stream will suffer much more damage [even with the per hit damage reduction] than from the base minigun. These aren't overwhelmingly overpowered, but they are a touch more powerful, and in the hands of otherwise equally skilled players can make a difference. The key thing that bothers me about this is the item set / ensemble benefits will probably increase in order to encourage purchasing.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Opportunist]

But since I have both of these items and I haven't spent a dime on TF2 aside of the original purchase, I'd say that both can be unlocked by playing.

"Invest time or money" is quite ok, as long as every kind of advantage you might (want to) get can be unlocked by spending time trying to get it. And neither Natasha nor Backburner have been ultra rare drops in the past (dunno if that changes now). What bites is those games where spending money is the ONLY way to access items of superior power.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Opportunist]

Most unlockables in TF2 are highly situational items and some more are very dependent on your play style. The aforementioned Natasha is a great tool to keep pesky scouts at bay but in pitched slug-it-out battles, especially against targets that receive healing, it's at best useless. It depends on your problem, and in some situations, having access to unlockables will give you an edge. But they're hardly a must-have to compete sensibly or be an asset for your team.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

Backburner [...] overpowered

WTF are you smoking?

Re:Splitting hairs

[kcitren]

I agree, and never said anything about having to purchase those two items. It was simply a response to parent asking about overpowered weapons. I love TF2, and I've never spent any money within the game [outside of initial purchase, and donating to groups to help maintain servers]. I'm hoping the free to play doesn't change that. Although I'm pretty sure it won't. TF2 appears to be Valves experimental playground. I'm pretty sure they aren't making money off it, breaking even probably at best. It's a cheap game [I don't know anyone who spent more than $10 on it] that's been maintained and updated for years. It appears to be more a showcase than money maker. Maybe it's where they test new developers?

Re:Splitting hairs

[JohnnyBGod]

Yeah, that's true. The actual problem with the game since the Mann-conomy is another. Threats in TF2 used to be highly recognizable, both by sight (different silhouettes, different poses for holding guns, etc.) or by sound. Nowadays there are so many weapons and some of them look and sound so similar it is impossible to distinguish between them all in any useful way.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Iceykitsune]

Nothing that can be bought cannot be easily gotten in a few hours of playing, besides hats anyways, .

Set hats say hi.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Opportunist]

Well, I'm kinda sure it also makes some money somehow. You'd be surprised how gladly people throw money at vanity items in games. And if that keeps TF2 afloat, I'm happy with that.

It certainly also is a showcase piece (Metacritic score of 92 is something you can go around and brag with), and I'm kinda sure they now use it as some kind of community experiment to see whether the revenue would actually also allow to make this a sustainable plan for future games.

Re:Splitting hairs

[VGPowerlord]

Yeah, that's true. The actual problem with the game since the Mann-conomy is another. Threats in TF2 used to be highly recognizable, both by sight (different silhouettes, different poses for holding guns, etc.) or by sound. Nowadays there are so many weapons and some of them look and sound so similar it is impossible to distinguish between them all in any useful way.

Look and sound similar? They are very few weapons in the game that actually look similar.

The ones I can think of are: The Minigun and Natascha look similar, but sound different. This is important, since they both have to spin-up before firing. Both their spin-up and firing sounds are different.

The Flame Thrower and Backburner look similar from a distance and sound identical. However, the Backburner has a different "mouth" to it (it looks like a snake head).

The Medic's Needle Gun and Blutsauger look quite similar. The main way to tell the difference is to see if the Medic has +3 health things appearing over his head when he shoots you.

Those are all the similar looking weapon I can think of in the game. The others all look quite different from each other, from the Shotgun and Frontier Justice (has a battery taped to it) to the Sniper Rifle and Sydney Sleeper (which has feathers attached to it).

Note: I haven't included any of the new weapons because I haven't seen how similar they look in-game.

I also intentionally ignored the Rocket Jumper and Sticky Jumper, which use the same models as the Rocket Launcher and Sticky Launcher respectively.

Re:Splitting hairs

[aztracker1]

I haven't bought TF2, though have considered doing one of the valve packs that include it many times... I honestly don't play anything but a handful of times a year, and have turned to QuakeLive when I have (though I've purchased Q3A). Free to play is awesome. I remember the original TF mod to Quake 1, the first weekend I was introduced to it, I think I got about 2 hours of sleep between friday night, and monday morning... that monday was so painful, my hands were just sore.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Danse]

The only things you can buy in-game is stuff that you can earn with enough gameplay. Besides, all of those items have trade-offs versus standard kit. It's not like you can buy a gun for each class that clearly bests anything else.

Don't really agree with this. There are some weapons that are just clearly better. The Dead Ringer and Your Eternal Reward are clearly better than the default spy weapons. Same with the Backburner and Axtinguisher for the Pyro. There are other examples as well, but the list would start getting long. Bottom line is that there are plenty of weapons out there for some of the classes that make the default weapons seem pretty useless.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Hadlock]

They've already introduced packs that provide an additional benefit for having all of them items in a particular pack. if you don't have the entire pack, that benefit is not realized. So there might not be a gun that clearly bests anything else, but there are packs that in practice you have to pay for, even if theoretically you could randomly get them through drops. Additionally there's a discount in the shop for these packs. It's not a huge bonus, but it is there. Hats are given away so rarely that you might as well pay for the hat.
 
But I'm not bitter. I bought the game for $20 in early 2008 and definitely feel like I've gotten my twenty bucks worth. Especially compared to a $40 multiplayer game like brink whose online community had died within the first two weeks.

Re:Splitting hairs

[geekoid]

Except the Dead Ringer. That shit is broke. Of course the spy is an over powered hacked to begin with.

Re:Splitting hairs

[TheLink]

Would it be such a big problem? I used to play a mod called Prozac Team Fortress ( http://wiki.quakeworld.nu/Prozac-TF ). Most people don't keep changing their builds after a every respawn, so you just learn what they are doing/using and try to counter it.

Stopped playing after too many people used aimbots, and fewer and fewer people played.

BTW it's not my imagination that they were using aimbots. They could head shot me when I just jump off some place, or when I'm invisible with jammer.

BUT if I was standing right in front of them and jiggling rapidly side to side (very little actual net side movement), they couldn't even hit me for a number of attempts (could even taunt em ;) ). A skilled human who can headshot falling targets with easy would be able to headshot me while I was doing that.

Re:Splitting hairs

[TheLink]

Oh I stopped playing before they introduced the taekwondo thing. Seems that ruin the game balance or something.

Re:Splitting hairs

[SpeZek]

The Dead Ringer and Your Eternal Reward are clearly better than the default spy weapons. Same with the Backburner and Axtinguisher for the Pyro.

Maybe for you. I find the default Pryo weapon better than the backburner (putting out allies can be very useful, as well as reflecting projectiles -- I've gotten tons of kills from stupid soldiers who just keep firing and getting hit by their own rockets) and for a smart spy, the default cloak is infinitely more useful for actual sneaking around than the Dead Ringer, if you know where ammo drops are.

If there's one thing Valve is good at, it's balance. I don't think any of the additional weapons are clearly better than the original ones.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

Mostly true. There are one or two examples of unlockable weapons that are strictly better then stock, for instance, the Medic's Amputator. Same damage and rate of fire as the stock Bonesaw, but adds a taunt that heals nearby friendlies.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Uncle Tractor]

The only things you can buy in-game is stuff that you can earn with enough gameplay.

Yup. I've got all the weapons in TF2, and I haven't payed for a single one. Everything is found or crafted.

Now can somebody please tell me what to do with those $&#% crates? No, I'm not buying any keys. What I want to do is throw them at tiny cowards. ;)

Re:Splitting hairs

[VGPowerlord]

The Spy is a Glass Cannon.

The Dead Ringer is balanced by its much louder decloak sound than the normal cloaking devices. It's only really a problem if they're using the Saharan Spy set, which makes it completely silent (but also means they have the Your Eternal Reward knife).

Spies in general are countered by Pyro, among other things.

Plus, only a Dead Ringer Spy can run through an active fire fight and live through it... any other cloaking device makes him light up like a Christmas Tree when hit by any weaponry, particularly if Heavies are involved, they can kill a Spy from full health in less than a second.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

BACKBURNER?!

Gwahahahahaha. Any pyro worth her salt wouldn't be caught dead without airblast.

Re:Splitting hairs

[JohnnyBGod]

Ah, I see you're referring to the weapons in the class updates. Those were fine. My beef is that now instead of each class having two weapons for the same slot, there's a bajillion of them, and you can't possibly know all their strengths/weaknesses. As for sounding similar, the only one that I really can recall on short notice is a pistol for the Scout, which sounds almost like the Force-A-Nature.

Re:Splitting hairs

[slimjim8094]

[ ... airblast is better ... ]

The Backburner has an airblast now, it's just particularly expensive in terms of fuel. So nobody uses it if you think you'll be airblasting a lot. And the Axtinguisher the GP referred to is only good on burning enemies. If you're in the water, you'd much rather have the regular axe.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Khyber]

You when I get behind you with it.

Re:Splitting hairs

[slimjim8094]

Sell them. People trade crates for scrap all the time.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Khyber]

Apparently you're not worth your salt, because the recent backburners DO have CB.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

That's your opinion. The regular flame thrower is better if you plan to play pyro as a support class. (Try extinguish team mates often or air blasting ubers with the ammo cost on the BB!) While the dead ringer is extremely useful, the regular cloak is just as effective and better for some situation. As for the eternal reward, you lose the ability to disguise at will, which is a pretty big deal.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Lord of Hyphens]

I find the Medic's Blutsagher (+HP from damage done) to be an improvement over the syringe gun myself, as not being able to crit (especially with the low damage on the weapon itself) isn't that bad of a tradeoff for draining HP from your enemies.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

But I'm not bitter. I bought the game for $20 in early 2008 and definitely feel like I've gotten my twenty bucks worth. Especially compared to a $40 multiplayer game like brink whose online community had died within the first two weeks.

*grumbles* serves them right for not doing a Linux port of Brink...

Re:Splitting hairs

[VGPowerlord]

As for sounding similar, the only one that I really can recall on short notice is a pistol for the Scout, which sounds almost like the Force-A-Nature.

I hope you're joking.

They really don't sound all that similar. I don't play Scout a lot, but the FaN is in my Scout loadout. It makes a loud cracking sound (twice since it generally fires twice before stopping, the ammo is wasted if you don't fire the second shot before reloading) and has more bass to it than the pistol

The Shortstop (Scout's other primary replacement before the new update) on the other hand has more of a cracking sound than the pistol, but higher pitched and with less bass than the FaN.

(I know what the Pistol sounds like because I use it (or rather the Lugermorph, a cosmetic variation of it) a lot when I play Engineer.)

Re:Splitting hairs

[Mercano]

Natasha and the Backburner are also awarded for earning enough class achievements, so you don't even need to get lucky with the drop system. You just have to play the respective classes long enough to hit the achievement milestones.

Re:Splitting hairs

[TheLuggage2008]

No cynical "pay-to-win" options will be implemented, he assured.

No, it's more of a pay-to-not-lose.

Simply wrong; you don't have to spend a dime to be competitive. Even new players can acquire the "key" weapons within a few weeks between earning weapons through (mostly) easy to accomplish class achievements and through the random drop system. The quality of your team-mates will be the determining factor in whether or not your team wins more than any gun you have ever will.

With achievements and random drops, you will either get what you want/need or you will have the raw materials to craft most of what you want/need. Any gaps in your arsenal can be filled by trading, all of which can be done at the cost of $0.00. I know this because I had the complete list of weapons right before the latest update and I spent no money to do it. In fact, I'm now using my pile of duplicate items to start crafting the most recent releases.

The only items that I've seen command high trading values are typically vanity items: Vintage weapons (when the non-vintage are exactly the same except they don't say "vintage", hats (no change to game play in almost all cases) or paint, none of which you need to play well and have fun.

It's a game that is now free; download it, play it and enjoy; but if you feel COMPELLED to pay money to have all the toys immediately yet REFUSE to do so, uninstall TF2 and move on. There's certainly nothing to be cynical about here.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

A pile of Natascha heavies riding the cart can steamroll the holy living hell out of just about any PL map. Especially with a few medics (good or bad, as long as they're healing someone...), mostly Uber, but one or two Kritz.

You have to have a team of godlike snipers to take it down. I've been on both sides of this one... :)

Re:Splitting hairs

[mikkelm]

The Backburner might be considered slightly overpowered with the added compression blast, but not significantly so. Natascha is nothing but heavy upgrade cruft. No sane or sensible heavy would use it.

Re:Splitting hairs

[YojimboJango]

I'd have to disagree with all of your points. My personal preference leans to a Spy played with the default invisibility watch default knife and the ambassador. I find Dead Ringer Spys are effective if you're looking to build up a good kill death ratio, but for actually accomplishing objectives and helping your team out the default set is better. As for the Pyro, I still prefer the degreaser/flare gun/axestinguisher combo for general purpose, but occasionally go backburner/shotgun/powerjack if I'm attempting to be sneaky.

As it stands there may be a few weapons that are always better than others, but 99% of the time that's not true, and it's especially not true of the default weapons you get.

Re:Splitting hairs

[YojimboJango]

Notes to all your examples:
Miniguns: You get a full second audible warning every time before either of these weapons can fire.
Flamethrowers: You can't tell from a distance, but they also can't hit you from anywhere but right on top of you. If they're close enough to be a threat you're close enough to know.
Needleguns: Needles from both guns function the same 95% of the time. The times when there are differences (crits) the needles glow huge team colored auras. The differences are moot till there is a visual distinction.

I'm backing parent up here. The game is designed so that the more different the weapon the more different their profiles get. It still holds true.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. Half of my primary weapons in my loadout are defaults despite having nearly every weapon to pick from. And item drops are frequent enough to that anyone can accumulate a decent collection by the time they've played enough for it to actually matter.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

The weapons are built to suit different play styles and situations. The Backburner requires you to be a lot more selective with your airblast, as it chews up a lot more ammo than the regular flamethrower. The Axtinguisher does hardly any damage unless you've already set them on fire; the stock Fire Axe does consistent damage all the time. Your Eternal Reward removes the spy's normal disguise kit, so you have to be uncloaked and undisguised to use it the first time, and the only way to change your disguise after that is to successfully backstab someone. Miss a stab or use your gun, and you lose the disguise. Dead Ringer can be tricky when used properly, but it drains your cloak meter much faster than the standard invisibility watch.

pThe unlocks are purely situational. The stock weapons are balanced to fit any situation.

Re:Splitting hairs

[VGPowerlord]

The only things you can buy in-game is stuff that you can earn with enough gameplay. Besides, all of those items have trade-offs versus standard kit. It's not like you can buy a gun for each class that clearly bests anything else.

Don't really agree with this. There are some weapons that are just clearly better. The Dead Ringer and Your Eternal Reward are clearly better than the default spy weapons. Same with the Backburner and Axtinguisher for the Pyro. There are other examples as well, but the list would start getting long. Bottom line is that there are plenty of weapons out there for some of the classes that make the default weapons seem pretty useless.

I've clocked over 600 hours as Spy, and I'll tell you right now that it's completely situational.

The Your Eternal Reward is a tradeoff. You start off with no disguise, and if you miss a backstab or have to shoot someone, your disguise goes away until you get another backstab.

The Dead Ringer is balanced by its loud decloak sound and the limit on how much cloak you can regenerate from ammo boxes/dropped weapons. I personally like the DR, but it is fairly useless at the start of Attack/Defense maps if you're on RED. However, the Cloak and Dagger works really well there, as you essentially have infinite cloak as long as you don't move.

The normal invisibility watch is still useful as you can collect ammo boxes along the way to restore your cloak. The C&D can't do this (instead you have to stop and stand there) and the DR has a hard 40% cloak regen limit per medium or large ammo box (invis watch gets 50% from medium and 100% from large). This is probably why most expert Spies use it.

Am I an expert Spy? Hard to say. I know that I got 15 backstabs in one life using the DR and YER on cp_degrootkeep, though...

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

But that doesnt matter .... 10-30 minutes on a server will get you a random drop, you can then in about 2 minutes find someone who will trade your drop for whatever weapon you want.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear that from every freemium game, and while it is partially true nobody really tells you just how much is 'enough gameplay'.

I did the math for bloodline champions and if you capped your point gain every day(which in itself isnt easy to do), it would take you about 10 months to even unlock every single playable character. That is, actual game altering stuff. This says nothing of all the cosmetic stuff.

So, pay $120 for the 'full' game(i.e buying all the dlc individually), or play hardcore for the majority of a year just to unlock it.

Or go play some fucking Quake1 or HalfLife1 mods where the gameplay is still good, but all the customization is free.

Re:Splitting hairs

[VGPowerlord]

Nothing that can be bought cannot be easily gotten in a few hours of playing, besides hats anyways, .

Set hats say hi.

Here's hoping this encourages Valve to remove the hats from the sets.

Heck, I'd love it if I could get the Saharan Spy set effect with my Unusual Fancy Fedora.

Re:Splitting hairs

[bluemonq]

Actually, there's a new minigun with much less noise on spinup.

Re:Splitting hairs

[ottothecow]

I have not played in a long time but I used to be a very good medic.

IIRC, the syringe gun already had kind of a high crit rate, and the game increases your crit rate as you live longer and score lots of points. A good medic should stay alive for a long time and as such, the syringe gun had some nice crits.

It was perfect for saving your ass when you had been pulling a group along and something goes wrong and you are suddenly alone. At that point, you should be critting pretty often which can cut through most enemies pretty quick. I would switch back and forth and never could decide which I liked better...so its probably pretty balanced.

Of course I have not played much of the new content (I last played before the engineer update) so maybe the balance has fallen off.

Re:Splitting hairs

[makomk]

Not sure that's true anymore with this free-to-play update; they've got some sort of scheme involving restricting earning items to "premium" players that have forked over money at some point, either for the game itself or in the item shop.

Re:Splitting hairs

[ildon]

But you can get all of those with just a few hours of playtime working toward the achievements for those particular weapons.

Re:Splitting hairs

[gottabeme]

"I find Dead Ringer Spys are effective if you're looking to build up a good kill death ratio, but for actually accomplishing objectives and helping your team out the default set is better."

Can you explain that? I'm seriously curious how that works.

Re:Splitting hairs

[RobbieThe1st]

Yea, exactly. When it first came out, I *really* wanted the Natscha. I kept thinking it was so awesome... Until I finally got one. I spent a couple weeks messing with it, then went back to the original minigun. It's just far better, especially if you can aim. The Natascha is only good against scouts and such, if you can't aim.

Backburner's only really good on a group of people all looking forward. It's the same thing the Your Eternal Reward spy is good at. If someone's looking around, it's no more dangerous than the original flamethrower.
Personally, I like the Degreaser/Axetinguisher combo.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

putting out allies can be very useful, as well as reflecting projectiles

I believe Valve added airblast for the backburner, but it takes more ammo than the standard flamethrower or the degreaser.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Lordnerdzrool]

RIght, but even still, you are proving his/her point: Some weapons are just clearly better.

We have always known Backburner to be inferior to Flamethrower (less-so since they added airblast to the backburner). Well, not always... When it first released it was basically better than the Flamethrower in every way, but then became inferior with airblast changes.

Valve is not good at balance at all. Many weapons when they are added break gameplay for quite a while until they are patched. Backburner being one that has changed many times in its history, going from powerful, to inferior in every way, to finally being usable, but still not Pyro's best weapon.

Heavy's Fists of Steel, for example, when they first came out, you could basically just walk to the point with your medic like a boss and not even a demoman with crit stickies on the point could do much to stop you. Not even have to fire a single shot. You would survive in many cases, and be able to cap the point. Changed that item an update or two later.

When Demo's targe came out, same idea. It's defensive buffs were insane, and a rocket could unload up to 8 clips on a demo with targe and not even dent him. While, obviously, the solution is to use bullet weapons like shotgun, that doesn't always work from certain distances. They reduced the defensive properties of that weapon as well.

Sandman used to be able to paralyze anyone at any range (god, those were good times). You could even paralyze ubers. So consider this: 2fort. Engineers camping the courtyard, so you get ready for an uber push. You can only uber-push from the sink room, or the 2nd spawn drop hall. You pop the uber. Scout camping their own base with sandman. Fires baseball at the uber heavy. Runs to resupply. Fires another at the still paralyzed heavy. Fires another... Repeat. Heavy is dead. They have since then, changed it so sandman only slows down targets hit by the ball, and can only paralyze targets from very far away. Furthermore, the sandman's ball cannot affect ubers at all.

The list goes on. They aren't good at balance in any way at all and are constantly overpowering items, or in some cases, such as the new sniper rifle, under-powering them in fear of over-powering them and making them pointless in comparison to other weapons.

Re:Splitting hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

If your a pyro not chasing achs then you run standard flamer, hammer for sapper removal and the flare gun. Thats it. Without compression blast your useless

R.I.P. Team Fortress 2

[Anonymous Coward]

2007-2011
We hardly knew ye

Meet The Medic is out too

[Anonymous Coward]

http://teamfortress.com/classes.php?class=medic

Re:Meet The Medic is out too

[Opportunist]

And this is maybe the most relevant post of this thread.

Re:Meet The Medic is out too

[Machtyn]

OOH!!! I've been waiting for them to release a new one of these. It took them long enough.

Meet the Sniper, HWGuy, Engineer, and Demon are my faves. The soldier one is fun enough, just a little disturbing.

Free to play accounts are limited

[VGPowerlord]

They've also made it so new accounts have limits, such as:
No random cosmetic item drops.
Can receive items in trades but not send them.
Cannot gift items to other players
50-slot backpack (as opposed to 300-slot for normal accounts)
Limited crafting recipes.

Of course, the way to "fix" this is to buy anything from the Mann Co. Store. That'd be easy... if it weren't for Valve having a $5 minimum on funds put into your Steam wallet.

These restrictions make sense, though. They are in place to prevent people from creating a whole bunch of Steam accounts to farm item drops.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't get cosmetic drops? Free accounts get a better experience than I do :(

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, the way to "fix" this is to buy anything from the Mann Co. Store. That'd be easy... if it weren't for Valve having a $5 minimum on funds put into your Steam wallet.

These restrictions make sense, though. They are in place to prevent people from creating a whole bunch of Steam accounts to farm item drops.

Given that WOW is on a subscription model, and farming of items (or gold) still happens, I don't think a measley $5 is going to be much of a barrer for that.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[arth1]

They've also made it so new accounts have limits, such as:
No random cosmetic item drops.
Can receive items in trades but not send them.
Cannot gift items to other players
50-slot backpack (as opposed to 300-slot for normal accounts)
Limited crafting recipes.

The problem I have with this is that they've taken away the option - you can't buy an account without these restrictions anymore; you can only get a "free" account.

So unless you already have purchased TF2, your friends who have will have an advantage over you. And depending on their playing style, they may not even welcome you, if they have to make special considerations for your limited account's abilities.

I'm all for the option of "free" play, but only as an option. I'd much rather buy a game with all the bells and whistles, and not having to bring out my wallet for DLC at all. If I can't have that choice, I'll go elsewhere.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[VGPowerlord]

Of course, the way to "fix" this is to buy anything from the Mann Co. Store. That'd be easy... if it weren't for Valve having a $5 minimum on funds put into your Steam wallet.

These restrictions make sense, though. They are in place to prevent people from creating a whole bunch of Steam accounts to farm item drops.

Given that WOW is on a subscription model, and farming of items (or gold) still happens, I don't think a measley $5 is going to be much of a barrer for that.

Team Fortress 2 has no in-game currency, and the really valuable items can only be found if you buy keys (at $2.50 a piece) and get lucky when opening a crate with said key.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, but also consider the demand for wow gold vs the demand for tf2 hats.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[VGPowerlord]

The problem I have with this is that they've taken away the option - you can't buy an account without these restrictions anymore; you can only get a "free" account.

So unless you already have purchased TF2, your friends who have will have an advantage over you. And depending on their playing style, they may not even welcome you, if they have to make special considerations for your limited account's abilities.

I'm all for the option of "free" play, but only as an option. I'd much rather buy a game with all the bells and whistles, and not having to bring out my wallet for DLC at all. If I can't have that choice, I'll go elsewhere.

Buying anything from the Mann Co. store removes these restrictions. I believe I already mentioned that.

And most of the items in said store are cheaper than the game is, but Valve has a minimum of $5 that can be added to the Steam wallet.

However, you can add $5 to your Steam wallet, buy a Rocket Jumper for $0.99 and have $3.99 left to spend on Steam daily sale games.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Shikaku]

It doesn't work that way. You need to purchase $5 worth of items in TF2.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[FrostDust]

you can't buy an account without these restrictions anymore; you can only get a "free" account.

While that is technically true, you can permanently upgrade to the normal account with your first purchase in their store. See their FAQ.

You have to add a minimum $5.00 to the Steam Wallet to buy stuff from the store, so practically you can look at this as the price of getting a normal account. If you feel like spending $1 on a cosmetic item is unfair to other players for whatever reason, there's a Map Stamp item which basically lets you vote on your favorite maps, and the creator gets a bit of that money.

And if it's the DLC system itself that you don't want to give money to, you can try looking around if there's still retail copies of the game around somewhere.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Chris Mattern]

However, you can add $5 to your Steam wallet, buy a Rocket Jumper for $0.99 and have $3.99 left to spend on Steam daily sale games.

$5 - $0.99 = $3.99?

I believe Steam approves of your arithmetic.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[jonescb]

Gold farmers on WoW are using stolen accounts. They don't really go out and make their own.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Anonymous Coward]

the $5 minimum is only adding cash to your steam wallet, but you don't have to add money to your steam wallet to purchase from the mann co store. You can purchase something for $2 from the store with a credit card or with money in your steam wallet. There is no minimum purchase amount. I think Valve has made the best and most convenient micro transaction system out there.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Thiez]

> So unless you already have purchased TF2, your friends who have will have an advantage over you. And depending on their playing style, they may not even welcome you, if they have to make special considerations for your limited account's abilities.

They will not. There is NO gameplay advantage between the two account types. In fact I wish I could downgrade so I won't receive those cosmetic item drops...

If your friends don't welcome you, it's probably because they think you suck, or they don't like you.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[VGPowerlord]

It doesn't work that way. You need to purchase $5 worth of items in TF2.

Yes, it does work that way. The Steam Wallet is not-TF2 specific.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[VGPowerlord]

$5 - $0.99 = $3.99?

I believe Steam approves of your arithmetic.

I originally wrote $4 and thought "wait, that doesn't sound right" and changed it.

I just changed it in the wrong direction... doh. I tell you, it's the brainwashing from stores so that we now expect everything to end in .99.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[lattyware]

Where does it say that? It says you just have to buy an item.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[arth1]

And if it's the DLC system itself that you don't want to give money to

Well, considering I said, in th e post you replied to:

not having to bring out my wallet for DLC at all

What do you think? :)

Also, from what I can tell, you have to make a $5 purchase at the DLC store, not just $5 to Steam and any purchase. Unless there's something that costs exactly $5 (and not, say, $4.99), that means a $5 Steam wallet won't cut it.
ICBW, but it's nevertheless the principle that I object to - having to buy extras later instead of upfront, and having to buy from more than one place.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[arth1]

They will not. There is NO gameplay advantage between the two account types.

A six times as large backpack isn't a gameplay advantage?
Colors matching the environment and making you harder to spot isn't a gameplay advantage?
I'm sorry, I want the other pill.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Anonymous Coward]

The biggest problem with these limits is the 50 item backpack. There's way over 50 non-stock weapons so you can't have all the variety of a Premium account with a free account.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Ced_Ex]

However, you can add $5 to your Steam wallet, buy a Rocket Jumper for $0.99 and have $3.99 left to spend on Steam daily sale games.

$5 - $0.99 = $3.99?

I believe Steam approves of your arithmetic.

He had to subtract his 2 cents for his thoughts.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[geekoid]

No it's not a game play advantage to have a larger backpack. The starter backpack is large enough to hold all the optional gear for all the classes. It's a convenience, nothing more.

"Colors matching the environment and making you harder to spot isn't a gameplay advantage?"
what are you talking about? I've played for 900+ hours and haven't seen an advantage of 'matching' the background.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Anonymous Coward]

not always. i don't any more, but i used to run a small gold farming operation using bots that i leveled myself (well, the bots leveled, but they were legit accounts, not stolen)

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe he's accounting for the bitcoin transfer rate..... wait what's this about tf2? I thought this was the bitcoin forums.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Danse]

The biggest problem with these limits is the 50 item backpack. There's way over 50 non-stock weapons so you can't have all the variety of a Premium account with a free account.

If it's that important to you, then spend a couple bucks and get a premium account. Problem solved.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Hadlock]

...or $1 worth of TF2 items and $4 worth of games.
 
You're either a bad troll, or incredibly dense. Valve has for a long time had a walled garden around users with no financial stake in their steam account. This prevents hacking and spamming, etc. Once you have a paid game in steam, you have a lot less incentive (or, it becomes much more expensive) to hack/phish steam accounts from other accounts. It's also why VAC games are a lot less prone to hacking - why risk your account full of multiplayer games worth $20, 50, $150 for cheating on one multiplayer game? Sure if you cheat and get caught you'll still be able to play on non-vac servers.... but that's where the rest of the player base wants you to stay, anyways.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[VGPowerlord]

The starter backpack is large enough to hold all the optional gear for all the classes. It's a convenience, nothing more.

Er... no it isn't. I had 70 unique weapons in my backpack before this update, and this update added upward of 20 more.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Anonymous Coward]

Or buy the Orange Box bundle on Steam. They haven't unbundled TF2 from it, and the bundle is still available. And since you paid, it should be a "full" TF2 account.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Thiez]

> A six times as large backpack isn't a gameplay advantage?
Not particularly, no. The alternative weapons are pretty balanced with the default ones, and you're probably not going to use every single one of them anyway. I doubt most people use every class, I know I don't.

> Colors matching the environment and making you harder to spot isn't a gameplay advantage?
We're talking about TF2 here, not some stealth shooter. The thing you can change about the look of your character is... your hat. And there is no prone position. I have never heard of anyone wearing a hat to 'blend in' with their environment, and if you had any experience playing TF2 you would realize how completely preposterous that idea really is.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, from what I can tell, you have to make a $5 purchase at the DLC store, not just $5 to Steam and any purchase. Unless there's something that costs exactly $5 (and not, say, $4.99), that means a $5 Steam wallet won't cut it.

I'm afraid what you can tell is wrong. Any purchase flips you to a premium account, be it a $50+ massive weapon pack or a $0.99 common achievement-based weapon. There's no "make this a premium account" purchase in the Mann Co Store in TF2. It's "buy anything, anything at all, and you're premium".

And frankly, unless you have a desperate need for the cosmetic items, there's really not much premium can offer you. "Rare" items are just cosmetic items anyway (or reskins of existing items for promotional purposes). So if it's just that the concept of a company finding a new revenue stream that works for them apparently makes you feel all icky, just don't buy anything and play the game already. Geez. :-)

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Blakey Rat]

What happens if I "owned" the game on Steam before, but never installed it? Do I get the 300-slots, or the 50-slots?

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately the traditional saying of "2 bits" is 25 cents, but nobody seems to know that these days.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[VGPowerlord]

What happens if I "owned" the game on Steam before, but never installed it? Do I get the 300-slots, or the 50-slots?

As far as I know, you'd get the 300 slots one.

Re:Free to play accounts are limited

[Anonymous Coward]

However, you can add $5 to your Steam wallet, buy a Rocket Jumper for $0.99 and have $3.99 left to spend on Steam daily sale games.

$5 - $0.99 = $3.99?

I believe Steam approves of your arithmetic.

If Steam sells anything for 2 cents, please tell me.

Hats... Hats Everywhere!

[madhatter256]

You will never get to see what it's like to see a bald-headed Heavy in TF2...

My favorite online FPS. Ever.

[Viewsonic]

So far TF2 has been the only online shooter I've liked. I used to like Quake back in the day with grappling hooks and whatnot, but nothing since then has really been as enjoyable until I came along TF2. I'm glad more people will play, just means more kills.

I guess what I am saying is, play this! It's worth it. Very fun.

Re:My favorite online FPS. Ever.

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed, it takes what makes classic FPS gaming fun and perfects it. Very solid and fun game.

Re:My favorite online FPS. Ever.

[Foxxxy]

100% agree, love this game, had it since it was released, the only game that is installed on my machine at all times, others come and go but TF2 is the go to for quick fun

Re:My favorite online FPS. Ever.

[Hatta]

I can't get into it. I don't want to have to worry about classes or teammates or objectives. I just want to shoot everything that moves. Deathmatch is all I really need from a multiplayer FPS.

Re:My favorite online FPS. Ever.

[Viewsonic]

Then you can play a solider. They are the bog standard shoot anything that moves class in the game. It was created exactly for people like yourself. If you only want deathmatches, just filter the servers and play just on those.

The beauty of TF2 is that is caters to EVERY type of FPS fan, I think. The game offers many classes that all have different roles, some very straight forward, others a bit more complex. Even if you're absolutely terrible at FPS games, there are still support classes that allow a player to at least contribute to their team in some ways, even if they tend to die every time someone from the other side runs into them. The demoman can launch grenades from a distance, so you can hide behind terrain from the choke points and keep your fingers crossed for some kills or at least help hold off the tide from getting through the choke point.

Re:My favorite online FPS. Ever.

[darkwing_bmf]

I can't get into it. I don't want to have to worry about classes or teammates or objectives. I just want to shoot everything that moves.

Sounds like sniper is the class for you.

Re:My favorite online FPS. Ever.

[jamesjonah]

Games that I like from VALVE... CS: Source, Day of Defeat: Source and Team Fortress 2. Good old days.

If only every game..

[Anonymous Coward]

...became f2p after a certain period of time.

Re:If only every game..

[Noughmad]

I don't know about you, but I can download most new games for free _before_ they become available for purchase in my country.

Re:If only every game..

[Golddess]

Or any country for that matter *wink wink nudge nudge*

OH NOES!!

[senorpoco]

Here come teh n00bs!!!!!! Srsly.... Ahem.. Seriously though F2P is always feared by longterm players and fiercely resisted but more often than not it can breathe new life into long running games and drives innovation. DDO was on it's last legs until the switch, LOTRO has been getting more and more content, if handled correctly the move can be a great thing for the game and the community.

Re:OH NOES!!

[senorpoco]

I haven't played TF2 in a few months and just logging on I would like to rescind the previous comment and replace it with this. People who have just started playing TF2, 'Shut The Fuck Up!' You don't need to sing, whistle, constantly laugh or talk shit every time you kill someone or die.

TF2 was always free to play.

[Jartan]

What kind of freaking news is this? You could always play it for free. It's a FPS not an MMO.

Re:TF2 was always free to play.

[Viewsonic]

DERP. You had to BUY it first. It's entirely free now. I guess the Internet loves to argue semantics.....

A model economy

[Veggiesama]

The rich, and those with more money than sense, subsidize everyone else's play by purchasing useless cosmetic doohickeys that fund further development of the game to the enjoyment and benefit of all.

Why can't the real world work this way?

Re:A model economy

[Veggiesama]

In full disclosure, I did buy a pair of keys to open some Mann Co. crates I found while playing. For 5 bucks, I got extra weapons I already had (later gifted to a friend) and color-dyed my pyro's vintage merryweather helmet.

I felt like it was kind of a rip-off, but if you see a pyro with a purple helmet coming your way, you better run.

Re:A model economy

[CaptSlaq]

The rich, and those with more money than sense, subsidize everyone else's play by purchasing useless cosmetic doohickeys that fund further development of the game to the enjoyment and benefit of all.

Why can't the real world work this way?

I'd say that it is mostly implemented already: I've never been employed by a poor person, and only in very rare instances those that fit the middle class mold.

Re:A model economy

[Anonymous Coward]

From the "Towering Pillar of Hats" description:
"A-ha-ha! You are as PRESUMPTUOUS as you are POOR and IRISH. Tarnish notte the majesty of my TOWER of HATS."

I don't know, it seems like a pretty accurate portrayal of rich people to me.

Re:A model economy

[drinkypoo]

Why can't the real world work this way?

Government will always fail once the rich discover they can purchase themselves entitlements. Forget all that crap about people voting them for themselves.

Re:A model economy

[Anonymous Coward]

It already is. More expensive items in real life carries a relatively higher VAT payment.

Re:A model economy

[Machtyn]

And with taxes the way they are in most western style countries, the rich are subsidizing the poor. (The good or bad of it is a topic for another discussion board)

Re:A model economy

[geekoid]

It can. see: Taxes.

Also see: Soda.
You know why you can get a dollar burger? 3 dollar tacos fries and drink? It's subsidized, mostly, by the soda.

Re:A model economy

[geekoid]

So you've never worked for a start up? Or a small company scraping by?

Re:A model economy

[Toonol]

Government will always fail once the rich discover they can purchase themselves entitlements

What are the largest components of the US budget?

Re:A model economy

[Anonymous Coward]

Why can't the real world work this way?

Actually Sales Tax (as much as I hate paying it) actually does something similar in the real world. There is also luxury taxes in some states for high ticket items. That money then presumably helps everyone else because its used for things like paying for schools, fireman salaries, etc.

Not that I'm a fan of a lot of taxes or anything.

Re:A model economy

[drinkypoo]

What are the largest components of the US budget?

New wars and old wars. Then you get social services.

Not much of a "limit" ..

[Viewsonic]

I've been playing for years and I've never worn anything that was just cosmetic. And I never really do any of the crafting. I only use different items like the backburner etc which will still be available to everyone.

I REALLY like that Valve has done this. This game has been a 5 star game for years, with constant updates. Now I want to go play..

The FTP Swarm

[Anonymous Coward]

The positive comments, I suspect, are from people that have never experienced a free-to-play game. There is invariably a swarm of players from developing nations that can't or won't speak a server's primary language, play on machines that chug at 999ms+, and choke servers. I wouldn't be surprised if server owners find some way to identify non-premium players and lock them out, nor would I fault them.

Re:The FTP Swarm

[Shikaku]

Source servers have mods where you can prevent people from connecting with a ping higher than X.

200ms is good enough for most people.

Re:The FTP Swarm

[Anonymous Coward]

BR?

Re:The FTP Swarm

[Travelsonic]

The positive comments, I suspect, are from people that have never experienced a free-to-play game.

And this comment, I suspect, is ignorant at best. Maybe the cheers are coming from not just those who tried TF2 during a free weekend, but from those who are not quite cynical about things.

There is invariably a swarm of players from developing nations that can't or won't speak a server's primary language, play on machines that chug at 999ms+, and choke servers.

That happens WITHOUT a game being free to play. Garry's Mod - where you have to pay to have the game, and play it... the server I play on [rANdOM - their Fretta, Trouble in Terrorist Town, Flood, and Zombie Survival servers specifically] face that shit all the time. We're DoS'd / DDoS'd randomly - some weeks it can be as much as 5 times in a week, one week it was every single day, sometimes twice a day. We deal with script kiddies, micspamming namechanging trolls, and foreigners, and people who don't DoS the server, but still cause it to lag.

To believe this is limited to free-to-play games is retarded.

I wouldn't be surprised if server owners find some way to identify non-premium players and lock them out, nor would I fault them.

I would - since they're working on stupid "logic"

Does it run on Linux?

[mounthood]

Does it run on Linux? WINE rating goes from garbage to platinum. http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=9901

Re:Does it run on Linux?

[HAKdragon]

As seems to be the case with Wine, performance seems to be all over the place depending on distrobution, hardware, and version of the software (both the Wine and the version of app you're trying to run). It's been my experience that the performance of Source engine based games has been in the toilet for the last year or two - I'm thinking they made some update to the engine that Wine doesn't like. I'm running a 1.8 GHz Core2Duo, 2GB of RAM, and a Nvidia 7300 - not hte beefiest machine by far, but it most source games should sitll run half-way decent, even at the lowest settings, or so I would assume.

Re:Does it run on Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Performance is all over the place running natively in Windows anyway. Gets worse and worse with every patch too.

Re:Does it run on Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it does. Runs better in Wine then it does in Windows (for me at least)

Re:Does it run on Linux?

[gripped]

My experience with this is ATI cards don't handle it at all well. Maybe better now ?
Nvidia cards work better but only with the closed driver. And only runs at DX8.1 I think. Playable but I boot to windows.

Re:Does it run on Linux?

[drinkypoo]

probably runs on some versions and not others, and I don't mean minor version, but tiny.

Wine promised to stop introducing regressions through better testing, but it was a lie. Source engine games in particular seem to change with every Wine release.

Re:Does it run on Linux?

[Beelzebud]

Over the years I've tried TF2 in Wine about a half a dozen times, and every time I immediately went back to the native client under Windows. The performance just isn't there, and even a few of the HUD elements are always messed up. In short, it looked like playing TF2 on an emulator, and that is pointless when I have a copy of Windows.

Re:Does it run on Linux?

[YojimboJango]

This will be a terribly controversial statement, but TF2 on linux plays like proof that linux has hidden costs.

My old 2.6 ghz dual core with a GTX260 could run at about 45-60fps@1080p under windows with everything maxed. Same machine under ubuntu and I was getting wild fluctuation between 5 and 40fps (also at 1080p) with the graphics turned down. I hear some people with monstrous machines can get it to run at a consistent 60 under linux, but you're going to pay through the nose to get hardware that can do it.

That said if you have the hardware already you're probably fine. Also this personal anecdote was from before they made a mac version of the game, so things might have changed since then.

Re:Does it run on Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Over the years I've tried TF2 in Wine about a half a dozen times, and every time I immediately went back to the native client under Windows. The performance just isn't there, and even a few of the HUD elements are always messed up. In short, it looked like playing TF2 on an emulator, and that is pointless when I have a copy of Windows.

Um... that would be because Wine is an emulator (despite the fanboy myth stating otherwise).

Re:Does it run on Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

I play it under wine everyday. It does run fine.

Re:Does it run on Linux?

[cyberstealth1024]

Mod parent up :)

Re:Does it run on Linux?

[IronSight]

Yes, it does. Runs better in Wine then it does in Windows (for me at least)

I hope you are kidding, because you might want to see how you messed up your windows setup if that is true. Granted there are a few games that do run better in linux, but those are generally older windows games running like directx 7, from my experiance, source games run much more stable and I get better framerates in windows 7. People can tell when I use wine with some games like Day of Defeat Source for sure since people think I am hacking with my jerky movement (almost like a speed hack, but more or less looks like I am lagging). Wine is cool and all, don't get me wrong, but it's nothing like running it on the real OS for many games made in the last few years. I mean, I might be doing something wrong, or wine has really improved greatly over the last year, but I somehow think that running something on it's native OS is generally better if it was designed for that version of the OS.

So glad I bought it already...

[Kamiza Ikioi]

I'm not being sarcastic, I am glad. I got years of enjoyment, and it was worth it. I wish all games went free after a time period, like say 5 years, when it's been replaced and outdated. At least I can now set it up for private LAN parties at work without buying extra copies.

Re:So glad I bought it already...

[Machtyn]

Agreed. For as much enjoyment as I've gotten from the Orange Box (TF2 and Portal), I'm not too terribly upset at having spent $50 for Portal 2.

Don't get me wrong, Portal 2 is an awesome game, has beautiful, well thought out levels, great voice acting, and such. To me (a cheap-skate), $50 on a game that I completed in 9-11 hours (single player) is too much - I would have accepted $30.

Re:So glad I bought it already...

[geekoid]

Yep, got the Orange box for 10 bucks. Best 10 bucks I ever spent on games.

Eternal September, TF2 style.

[Anonymous Coward]

Eternal September, TF2 style. The people on the servers I played on would always whine about the idiots that joined during free weekends. Well, now it's permanent. While I personally don't mind very much (more idiots on our team means more idiots on their team, essentially free kills), I'm not looking forward to 8 spy teams or other nonsense (for those who don't know, the usefulness of a spy on the team drops off greatly after the first or second one, but the way the game works, new players notice a single spy getting a ton of kills and suddenly the team has five spies on it).

Re:Eternal September, TF2 style.

[Abstrackt]

I've been playing since 2007 and found half the fun is switching classes as the situation changes; once the other team is all spies just go pyro and burn them all. Sure, there are going to be a lot more newbies and noobs but some of them will actually turn into people worth playing against. That's what I'm looking forward to.

Re:Eternal September, TF2 style.

[Hatta]

This is why I never liked TF. Can't I just shoot things? I'd rather lob a grenade up your ass than listen to you bitch about me choosing the wrong class.

Sorry to sound like a leech,

[indecks]

but does this mean that TF2 is now 'free', as in 'I can go home, log into my Steam account and download the full game for free' free?

Re:Sorry to sound like a leech,

[Anonymous Coward]

but does this mean that TF2 is now 'free', as in 'I can go home, log into my Steam account and download the full game for free' free?

yes

Re:Sorry to sound like a leech,

[indecks]

\m/

Re:Sorry to sound like a leech,

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. You can go anywhere on any PC, log into your Steam account, and download the full game for free, regardless if you have purchased it or not.

Basically, the thing that is keeping TF2 alive now is microtransactions through weapons and hats in the Mann Store. However, you can get these weapons through achievements and through a system that randomly gives you a weapon or a hat throughout some time period. It must be said that hats are harder to obtain than weapons, and that's probably where most of the money will be spent.

Re:Sorry to sound like a leech,

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe yes, from what I've read in other comments there are a few restrictions but they can be relieved by purchasing anything from some in game store that is non specific to tf2. The minimum to spend is $5.

Re:Sorry to sound like a leech,

[petermgreen]

Also if you want to do any mapping/modding for source based games or in some cases even play the mods (if they use the "SDK base" games) you have to purchase a source based game (it doesn't nessacerally have to be the same game you are mapping for). Promotional offers and other freebies don't get you access to the SDK

Re:Sorry to sound like a leech,

[geekoid]

Also on a Mac.

Re:Sorry to sound like a leech,

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes.

Re:Sorry to sound like a leech,

[Emetophobe]

Yes.

Though your free account will have some minor limitations: http://teamfortress.com/freetoplay/faq.php

... and then it went down

[RabidMonkey]

Last night I tried to sign in to play, and TF2 wouldn't even launch. It looks like their service was *massively* overloaded.

I bought the game 4 years ago now and I have gotten my money out of it in hours played, however it still irks me that a game I paid for is unavailable to me because of free players jumping on board.

TF2 servers were already frequently full of whiners and trolls, I'm afraid of what this new influx of players will mean. Hopefully the TF2 servers (yes, I know games aren't hosted on their servers, but login/etc is) can handle the new load.

Re:... and then it went down

[VGPowerlord]

Last night I tried to sign in to play, and TF2 wouldn't even launch. It looks like their service was *massively* overloaded.

I bought the game 4 years ago now and I have gotten my money out of it in hours played, however it still irks me that a game I paid for is unavailable to me because of free players jumping on board.

You are aware that this happens after every update (large or small), as everyone who has CS:S, TF2, DOD:S, or HL2:DM (which is also free) as well as servers for all of the above try to update at once?

Of course, now it will be worse as even more people need to update.

I'm confused

[Missing.Matter]

Was TF2 a subscription based game? "Free to play" is a term used by MMOs like Guild Wars to indicate that there is no monthly fee, while you still have to actually purchase the game.

Re:I'm confused

[Anonymous Coward]

The game is now free. Read the fucking article, faggot.

Re:I'm confused

[Anonymous Coward]

Its not a subscription game, you just paid a one off fee which is now zero.

Re:I'm confused

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but it still required you to purchase the game before you could play (I think they still sold it for $20 before this week). Now, you don't even need to do that to play the game - they're completely supporting the cost of the game via micro-transactions.

Additionally, it looks like Valve has put up a bunch of their own servers for the game.

Re:I'm confused

[Beelzebud]

In the time it took to type up that question, you could have just RTFA and figured it out for yourself.

Re:I'm confused

[tlhIngan]

I'm confused as well. I have TF2 from Orange Box, but I've never played it. I was always under the impression that well, it was free to play... sure it cost $20 to buy it, but that doesn't seem like an overly big hump.

I wasn't aware one had ot pay subscription fees or other stuff to play TF2, especially since plenty of people put up their own dedicated servers for it.

Or is "free to play" now also encompassing the first initial purchase of the game as well?

Re:I'm confused

[Anonymous Coward]

Was TF2 a subscription based game? "Free to play" is a term used by MMOs like Guild Wars to indicate that there is no monthly fee, while you still have to actually purchase the game.

No, it's always been free to play but you had to purchase the actual game client. So the game is not free, but the online play is.

Re:I'm confused

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it just cost a small fee to buy. Valve is blatantly using this term to make it sound "good" or something. As well, all the items that can be purchased in the store can be earned just by playing the game.

Re:I'm confused

[VGPowerlord]

(I think they still sold it for $20 before this week)

It got knocked down from $20 to $10 in mid-April, with Orange Box falling from $30 to $20.

Re:I'm confused

[darkwing_bmf]

There was never a subscription. Free, in this instance, means no-one has to pay for the initial purchase.

EVE Online

[shadowsoze]

CCP Can definitely learn from Steam/Valve on how to listen to their playerbase due to all this recent "Gordon Gekko" fallout.

Screw Valve

[Anonymous Coward]

1. TF2 has costed 1,99 or less through various Steam sales over several years
2. The game is already one giant pay-to-play fest
3. It's too bad the game went downhill so fast
4. Thanks Gabe

Oh also enjoy your Brazilians, remaining players

Re:Screw Valve

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure thing. One less whiner (you) on the public servers means one more slot for someone who wants to actually play. Maybe you can go invent a door that won't hit you on the butt on the way out.

Free TF2 = More TF3 Sales

[BorkBorkBork6000]

It makes a lot of sense to give away TF2 for free to make the community larger. The larger the TF2 community gets, the better the sales for TF3 will be, whenever that is.

Hey, it worked for Portal. I missed the boat and never played Portal until I got myself a free copy from Steam the week they were giving it out. Result? I loved it and shelled out $50 for Portal 2 when it came out.

Valve has got some smart marketing people.

Re:Free TF2 = More TF3 Sales

[Machtyn]

TF3?! Heck, I just want to get HL2:Ep3 and HL3 at some point!

So can I get credit for paying for the game?

[Anonymous Coward]

I appreciate that they want to open it up so they can make more money, but I paid good money for the game when it came out... Do I now get in-game credit for that money?

Re:So can I get credit for paying for the game?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlikely... You've also enjoyed years of play while others have not. Them's the breaks of early adoption. I got the Orangebox from my wife for Xmas years ago and love every title. TF2 is the one that I play the most--almost daily. I don't begrudge a cent of the purchase price.

Re:So can I get credit for paying for the game?

[Phasma Felis]

Actually, yes!

Your credit is delivered in the form of getting to play an awesome game for four years.

Jesus Christ, some people love to whine. Do you bitch when you buy a game at retail and the price drops a few years later?

Fortress Forever

[TrisexualPuppy]

If you like a TFC-like game where there's more skill required, you get grenades, and you can move around at more than a mile per hour, check out Fortress Forever. Now that TF2 is free, that gives you a free copy of the Source engine and in turn makes Fortress Forever completely free to play.

1. Download TF2 for free
2. Download Fortress Forever.
3. Install.
4. ????
5. Enjoy better gameplay!

And you don't have any whiny kids on these servers complaining that you beat them when you actually used a little skill. :)

I'm so annoyed that....

[Anonymous Coward]

... other people get to play an entertaining game, a game that at it's basic level is enjoyable even without the in-game purchases!

How dare people get something free and update and download their game at the same time as me?
I mean, can you imagine what these 'noobs' are going to do to my stats once they get in and start letting me mow them down little the perpetual bullet magnets that i'm assured they will be?!?!

Shut up and get in the game, i know, i know, waiting for free stuff sucks.
Or don't play and keep criticising and preaching to the same whinge-bag choir who complain about everything online.

F2P TF2 welcomes all Hackers/Griefers

[Anonymous Coward]

They do differentiate free and premium accounts, free accounts cant trade items, which prevents people creating tons of accounts to idle for items. However, like many free to play games, the game is significantly hurt by people creating accounts simply for hacking and griefing.

There already exists a plugin for servers that prevents free accounts from joining, which I'm sure Valve will love to hear. What people dont realize is that even if you prevent free accounts from joining your server, there will still be a significant increase in hacking across the board with TF2 premium accounts and all source engine games. Hackers will try out there hacks in TF2 to see if they get caught.

Can't you just play on a dedicated server...

[rsilvergun]

with your friends and everyone at the same equipment levels?

This is interesting, but .....

[King_TJ]

As someone who's been kind of hooked on TF2 ever since they released the native OS X version (and gave me a good excuse to spend a lot of time in the game, as the Mac doesn't exactly have a plethora of other options!) -- I'm not sure the change in emphasis towards micropayments and inventory items is beneficial?

It's a great shooter with just the basic characters and default weapon choices, really. The ability to occasionally find a new, alternative weapon is good too, since it keeps the game-play "fresh". But lately, with the "Mann Co. store" being added, you've got this overly-commercial vibe starting to permeate the game. Every time some other new game is released, it seems like they're throwing in new hats or other items related to it -- even if said hats or items really feel a little "out of place" with the overall theme of TF2 itself. And I've seen more and more servers hosting "custom maps" that exist primarily or ONLY for people to sit around "leveling up" their characters or trying to exchange items. (There was some stupid server I joined recently that offered maps stuffed full of endless stationary bots that kept regenerating every 2 seconds when killed, so you could stand there as, say, a Pyro, hold down the button for the flamethrower, and generate hundreds and hundreds of kills for yourself.) I guess this always existed ... but it seems like once the micropayments, limited-edition items and purchased items came about, it started attracting more of this crowd.

I did really like the concept of offering a few items that you had to donate to charity to receive, via their store. My characters wear one of those they sold for the Tsunami victims in Japan. That, IMO, is a really GOOD use of the technology. (Why not make it more fun to donate to a cause, by giving back something that has essentially a zero cost to provide, yet still has value for the gamers? Heck, for a large enough charitable donation, I wouldn't even mind people being able to buy some SERIOUS weapons that always give them an edge in the game. How can you *really* get mad at someone who beats you repeatedly in a game because he or she donated generously to a good real-life cause??)

But overall, I think it kind of detracts from the original point of the game ... to just hop in, "run and gun", and have a good time. Now I'm made to feel like I'm supposed to be regularly managing my inventory "backpack" and thinking carefully about what I want to swap and what I'd be better off hanging onto. That's more the arena of an RPG, isn't it?

Re:This is interesting, but .....

[gottabeme]

"But overall, I think it kind of detracts from the original point of the game ... to just hop in, "run and gun", and have a good time. Now I'm made to feel like I'm supposed to be regularly managing my inventory "backpack" and thinking carefully about what I want to swap and what I'd be better off hanging onto. That's more the arena of an RPG, isn't it?"

I agree completely.

Re:This is interesting, but .....

[Cyno01]

Except you dont have to play on those servers.

And as numerous people have already stated, valve is awesome at balance, hats have 0 function in the game, and any weapons that have a bonus also have some subtractive stat.

Sure wearing the whole sniper set for example, which can be purchased OR ground out with a time investment, you can no longer be headshot.. but it also means you cant headshot other players.

Lest anyone think this is novel or special

[argStyopa]

"Valve has once again turned to Team Fortress 2 as the studioâ(TM)s outlet for experimentation, this time with a daring move to make the triple-A game entirely free to play."

"Daring move"?

The original TF (1996+) was a FREE mod that you played by often connecting through the FREE Gamespy server, connecting to any of a number of FREE games hosted all over. It was an *excellent* game, with a variety of extremely well-designed maps, novel & varied gameplay, and challenging mods.

In fact the current game, while a significant facelift, doesn't markedly change much in terms of gameplay. Even the modern maps, while nicely prettified, are largely re-creations of 2fort4, Canalzone, Prison, etc. All of it was 100% free of charge.

So while I commend Valve for finally releasing the game from serfdom, let's remember that it was Valve that originally decided that they would take a free game and charge for it in the first place.

Re:Lest anyone think this is novel or special

[Anonymous Coward]

No, Valve took a free game, made a sequel to it, and charged for that. There's a significant difference. I've played the original TF mod for Quake, it's almost nothing like TF2.

Re:Lest anyone think this is novel or special

[ildon]

TF required Quake, and Quake was not free. I think it originally retailed for $50 or so. If you played QWTF without buying Quake, you were pirating it. Hell, if you download Quake NOW to play QWTF and never purchased it in some form in your life time, you're STILL pirating it (even though I think it's like $5-$10 now on Steam and some other online retailers). The Quake/QuakeWorld source code was released under GPL, but only covers the binary.

The only way to play TF for free would be with a GPL client and 100% replaced models/textures/sounds/maps for all the original Quake content and any content derived from it. Honestly, there are probably already packs available that do this. But in 1996, and probably up until around 2003 or so, I doubt this was the case.

Re:Lest anyone think this is novel or special

[Anonymous Coward]

There was some attempts at free material replacements to make a GPL alternative (including one from the OpenArena author even), but the players did not express any interest in them due to a ill "fact" that "u can download quake for free :)" mostly from the lazy ass credit card lacking europeans that populate the Quake player base these days.

No one plays Vanilla TF anymore either, it's all this "Custom" and "Mega" shit.

Re:Lest anyone think this is novel or special

[Anonymous Coward]

Team Fortress was not free, it was a mod. You needed to own Quake to play it.

Aside from being free for anyone who has never touched a Source engine game before, I strongly disagree that the mechanics have remained the same. The removal of grenades, more focused specialization of classes, multiple versions of weapons per class, and even the primary mode of play (capture point instead of bring flag to point) has changed. Not to mention the addition of Goldrush, Arena, and King of the Hill.

If you want something that's simply a prettified version of the original Team Fortress, it's called Fortress Forever, and it's a free mod for the Source engine.

Re:Lest anyone think this is novel or special

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets just not forget that you had to actually pay for Quake licence. Also the original game was not so nicely polished, didn't receive so many updates and game balancing, and certainly didn't have so much additional matterials (Meet the...) and humor attached to it...

I did play pirated version some time but finally bought the thing, and it was 10 times more bang for the buck than any other online game so far (WOW I'm talking about you).

Re:Lest anyone think this is novel or special

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that you had to BUY Half Life.

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, agreed. TF2 sucks balls. Its like the devs gave into what all the stupid little whiner kids were complaining about. They gave spies WAY too many features (cloaking, sentry sapping, etc) took away the medic poisoning the enemy team and concjumping, etc. And everyone is WAY slowed down. Just RETARDED. FF doesnt have all that many servers but the gameplay is pretty good

Full Price to FREE?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm so glad I bought the game at full price. Maybe I should just wait for future Valve games to be released free instead of spending money on new ones?

Another one bites the dust.

[gottabeme]

I hate the idea of paying real money for imaginary things. Eventually people figure it out and come to hate it too. Or they run out of money.

It's a shame to see another basically-fun game be turned into a grind-farm with emphasis on acquiring items rather than actually playing the game.

Ugh. It's like everything on the Internet is going down the tubes.