Slashdot Mirror


Apple Patents Portrait-Landscape Flipping

theodp writes "On Tuesday, the USPTO granted a patent to Apple for Portrait-landscape rotation heuristics for a portable multifunction device (USPTO), which covers 'displaying information on the touch screen display in a portrait view or a landscape view based on an analysis of data received from the one or more accelerometers.' Perhaps the USPTO Examiners didn't get a chance to review the circa-1991 Computer Chronicles video of the Radius Pivot monitor before deeming Apple's invention patentable. Or check out the winning touchArcade trivia contest entry, which noted the circa-1982 Corvus Concept sported a 15-inch, high-resolution, bit-mapped display screen that also flipped between portrait and landscape views when rotated, like our friend the iPhone. Hey, everything old is new again, right?"

54 of 354 comments (clear)

  1. Brainflash by lul_wat · · Score: 2

    I'm going to patent the First Post.

    --
    Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?
    1. Re:Brainflash by b.emile · · Score: 5, Funny

      Looks like the AC above you has prior art.

      --
      this space intentionally left blank
    2. Re:Brainflash by kimvette · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since when has prior art stopped the USPTO from granting a patent?

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  2. Not prior art by pauljlucas · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Neither of the two cited examples of "prior art" cited in the summary were portable as is claimed (also according to the summary) by the Apple patent.

    --
    If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    1. Re:Not prior art by lattyware · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And taking an existing invention and putting it into something smaller is patentable innovation? Come on. Even if that is the way it works (which I'm pretty sure it isn't) - anyone with half a brain can see that's stupid and not the intention of patents.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    2. Re:Not prior art by wierd_w · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Forgive me, but that's like saying something like:

      "Yes, you have prior art for an alarm clock, and for a radio, but my patent is for an alarmclock radio!"

      The same reasons why you would want a display that can auto-rotate the contents based on screen orientation on a large fixed display would be equally applicable to a portable one, thus making the invention fail the obviousness requirement.

      Duh-- If you are holding something in your hand, you would consider it useful for it to rotate when you turned it over, so you arent reading it upside down or sideways. Same with rotating a fixed display.

    3. Re:Not prior art by jcr · · Score: 2

      More than that, the Radius monitor didn't use an accelerometer. It had a switch in the housing that was tripped when you rotated the display.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    4. Re:Not prior art by Internal+Modem · · Score: 2

      If it was "obvious," why was Apple the first to implement it in a mobile phone user interface? Why is it "not the intention of patents" that Apple should be able to protect (through patent) just one aspect that made the iPhone unique and created a spawn of imitators?

    5. Re:Not prior art by bmo · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's a cheap kind of accelerometer.

      In the Pivot monitor, it's a mercury switch, operated by gravity (acceleration at 9.8m/sec^2).

      Apple could have used a mercury switch and done the same thing and the user would not have noticed the difference. The only thing about an acelerometer chip is that it's a mercury switch without the mercury (I'm oversimplifying, of course).

      --
      BMO

    6. Re:Not prior art by pauljlucas · · Score: 2, Informative

      And taking an existing invention and putting it into something smaller is patentable innovation?

      The cited "prior art" didn't work using accelerometers either, so there was really no "existing invention" (at least the cited ones weren't).

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    7. Re:Not prior art by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because someone has to be first regardless of who. That's hardly an argument against obviousness. Screens have been rotating for decades. The sensor devices have been in cameras and other devices for about as long. Cameras have demonstrated this long before Apple did it. Somewhere out there in the patent jungle, there is a patent on this as applied to cameras. I think this is more than enough... more than enough to prove that the USPTO needs to learn to say "hell no."

    8. Re:Not prior art by KiloByte · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not Apple, it was Nokia who did it first on a phone. And it's annoying as hell. It can be disabled (a must for sanity), but then you get warnings all the time about the "orientation lock". You see, I'm secure with my orientation and please get the hell away from trying to get me to change it.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    9. Re:Not prior art by EdIII · · Score: 2

      Quite the opposite. At least according to the lawyers. If you can take an existing process and substantially add to it, or modify it, and make original claims, it makes no difference if the existing process is patented. You can still be awarded the patent...

      However....... that does not eliminate your obligations to the patent holder of the existing process. You need to have a licensing deal with them, and in order for them to use your "added value" process they need to license from you.

      It does work that way, but it is quite rare because nobody puts the resources in to put a patent "on top" of another patent. The "top" can be effectively prohibited from bringing a product to market and the "bottom" can just sit there forever and not care.

      And taking an existing invention and putting it into something smaller is patentable innovation? Come on

      We don't know the entire facts here unless you read their whole patent and then look at their claims. They're might be real innovation there we can't see.

      However, there is a huge problem in the USPTO where they just don't find existing prior art that most Slashdotters could tell you about in five minutes if you just asked.

      Just like in my last post regarding patents, I think there should be a 3 month public review of patents where it is under a probationary status and anyone is allowed to submit instances of prior art. If anything should be crowdsourced, it is this. That would help the examiners immensely because they could have targeted research based on public input. There are an awful lot of older IT people that can tell you about prior art for hours on end and even more historians out there that will remember of the top of their head that somebody did something like that already.

    10. Re:Not prior art by lattyware · · Score: 2

      Accelerometers exist. Their purpose is to give orientation data.
      Devices which use orientation data to chance screen layout exist.

      Are you saying that using a device for it's intended purpose to do something people have done before is non-obvious?

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    11. Re:Not prior art by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 3, Funny

      You are missing the point entirely. Steve Jobs has invented acceleration! That's what all the fuss is about.

    12. Re:Not prior art by pauljlucas · · Score: 2

      Can you name a product that used them together the way the iPhone and iPad do? If not, then, apparently, it's not sufficiently obvious to all the other consumer gadget makers out there otherwise somebody else would have done it.

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    13. Re:Not prior art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Can you name a product that used them together the way the iPhone and iPad do? If not, then, apparently, it's not sufficiently obvious to all the other consumer gadget makers out there otherwise somebody else would have done it.

      Nokia N95. 3-axis accelerometer used to orient screen. 2006.

    14. Re:Not prior art by pauljlucas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Putting together two things together which already exist isn't an invention, and shouldn't be patentable.

      Motors existed. Bicycles existed. By your logic, the first motorcycle shouldn't have been patentable.

      Putting two things together than previously existed most certainly is patentable.

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    15. Re:Not prior art by cskrat · · Score: 2

      Actually it sounds like the Radius monitor used a mercury switch to detect orientation so it would respond if you just picked it up and tilted it over.

      --
      My God! It's full of eval()'s.
    16. Re:Not prior art by sessamoid · · Score: 2

      Apple was not the first. Many "text messaging" non smart phones that had slide out keyboards would flip between portait and landscape when you opened the keyboard.

      Again, that's not what Apple patented. Changing orientation when a physical switch/keyboard is closed is not the patent we're talking about here.

      --
      "No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
    17. Re:Not prior art by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 2

      Of course a digital camera is a multifunction device. It can capture snapshots, record videos, view slideshows, play movies, display interactive, text-based menus and prevent papers from flying when hit by a gust of wind.

    18. Re:Not prior art by peppepz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Putting together two things together which already exist isn't an invention, and shouldn't be patentable.

      Motors existed. Bicycles existed. By your logic, the first motorcycle shouldn't have been patentable.

      Putting two things together than previously existed most certainly is patentable.

      Putting a motor on a bicycle involves a large number of non-trivial technical challenges that I'm sure you don't ignore. The particular ways to overcome those problems can be patented, not the idea of a motorcycle itself. In fact, the first motorcycle hasn't been patented, and that's why we have had motorcycles from different manufacturers since the beginning of the history of motorcycles. And that has been good for motorcycle buyers and for the progress of motorcycling.

    19. Re:Not prior art by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      So my ability to touch the screen suddenly makes a patent on a rotating screen new? Say it ain't so.

      Since the combover has already been patented, I'm going to patent the combover done holding the comb in the left hand now.

    20. Re:Not prior art by peppepz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Apple patent was filed on December 19, 2007. The Nokia N95 had an accelerometer for automatic UI rotation and was released in September 2006. It wasn't touch-screen, while the Apple patent is applied to a touch-screen device. It is therefore a clear example of obviousness: what can be done on a non-touch-screen phone, can obviously be done on a touch-screen phone. Common reality-distortion field influence where something doesn't exist or is unuseful until it gets added to an Apple gadget.

    21. Re:Not prior art by peppepz · · Score: 2
      In fact there were phones with accelerometers at least one year before the patent was filed.

      The novelty of Apple's patent relies on the fact that the device in question has a touchscreen. But:

      • there were phones with accelerometers before the patent was filed;
      • there were phones with a touchscreen before the patent was filed;
        • hence the innovation is absent and the patent is trivial.
    22. Re:Not prior art by digitalchinky · · Score: 2

      The N95 uses accelerometers to rotate the screen, the handset was on display by Nokia some months before Mr Jobs made his iPhone.presentation. The point here I guess is that Apple really isn't terribly worthy of this patent it would seem.

  3. But ... by Tjp($)pjT · · Score: 4, Informative

    The others used other gravity sensors like little metal balls and contact sets or mercury switches not accelerometers. And they weren't touchscreen devices. Trivial differences, but different technology. Better to argue it was obvious than say the others represent prior art. Still accelerometers in portable media players and phones is pretty much an Apple thing for display orientation, since everyone before had an attached keyboard!

    --
    - Tjp

    I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!

    1. Re:But ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And to clarify, touch is part of the patent. It doesn't just cover flipping the image, but also flipping the touch co-ordinates.

      Whatever your feelings are on this, it's a valid patent under the current laws because it's an improvement.

    2. Re:But ... by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whatever your feelings are on this, it's a valid patent under the current laws because it's an improvement.

      I suspect you'll find that's what people are complaining about. If this is a valid patent under current laws then current laws are absurd.

    3. Re:But ... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I may be reading the patent wrong, but it sounds like it's not about changing orientation only from accelerometer input, but rather changing it according to the gesture, and then locking that change (i.e. preventing further accelerometer-triggered changes) until the device is positioned such that the locked orientation corresponds to natural orientation.

      If I understand correctly, what it means is this. Suppose I'm sitting and holding an iPad in portrait mode, surfing the web. I then want to lie down on the side and read a book from it. When I put the iPad down on the side, the orientation will change to landscape, which isn't what I want, so I use the touch gesture (holding the corners and rotating?) to rotate it back into portrait. Now it's locked in that orientation, and I can read it for however long I want. But when I stand up and pick up the device, its locked orientation now matches its physical one, and so it auto-unlocks - so if I rotate it after standing up, it will change orientation automatically again (which is what I want).

    4. Re:But ... by pdabbadabba · · Score: 2, Informative

      As is so often the case, Slashdot has mischaracterized the patent. (I'm only talking about "Portrait-landscape rotation heuristics for a portable multifunction device." I don't have time to read the others.)

      The patent is on a touch-based mechanism to change and lock screen orientation IN CONJUNCTION with the use of accelerometers. Filing a patent requires a lot of expensive lawyer time; a company like Apple typically will not file one that it cannot defend. It knows that it's competitors have plenty of lawyers of their own to challenge invalid patents and, in egregious cases, they can find themselves on the hook for both sides' legal bills.

      Here's the abstract of the actual patent; it's in the mind-numbing legalese that is the specialty of patent attorneys, but you can probably still see the problem with the /. description starting in the third sentence:

      "In accordance with some embodiments, a computer-implemented method is performed at a portable multifunction device with a touch screen display and one or more accelerometers. The method includes displaying information on the touch screen display in a portrait view or a landscape view based on an analysis of data received from the one or more accelerometers. The method also includes detecting a predetermined finger gesture on or near the touch screen display while the information is displayed in a first view, and in response to detecting the predetermined finger gesture, displaying the information in a second view and locking the display of information in the second view. The method further includes unlocking the display of information in the second view when the device is placed in an orientation where the second view is displayed based on an analysis of data received from the one or more accelerometers."

    5. Re:But ... by kevinmenzel · · Score: 2

      If you agree that there should be some market benefit to the person who comes up with this, then the problem with current patents is that the time for which they guarantee exclusivity/right to license is too long when compared to the pace of modern technology. Patents are granting protection to single companies well beyond the lifespan of the associated products, stiffing competition.

    6. Re:But ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well shit, so walking is fine, and chewing gum is fine, but if you do both then you have to pay apple?

      I mean its an obvious 'next step'.

    7. Re:But ... by strikethree · · Score: 3, Funny

      So they essentially patented using a finger gesture to lock the screen in portrait or landscape mode...

      I am guessing that you can figure out what the finger gesture is that I have for the patent office and Apple.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    8. Re:But ... by poor_boi · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Filing a patent requires a lot of expensive lawyer time; a company like Apple typically will not file one that it cannot defend.

      It's not true. Tech companies spam the USPTO with patent applications, taking the shotgun approach of hoping something, anything will stick. It is not terribly expensive to file patents, especially when compared with the amount of money that Apple can throw around.

  4. Accelerometers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Did the Radius monitors use accelerometer data? Nope, they used a positional switch mounted on their stationary base. Since this specifically addresses use of accelerometer data (no fixed mount on a netbook or smartphone) that isn't prior art here, sorry. Making in-jokes about the patent system mocks its all-to-real deficiencies, of which this is not one. Oh, and way to write a terrible headline - Apple hasn't patented portrait-landscape flipping. You really did read about this before writing.....didn't you?

    1. Re:Accelerometers? by lattyware · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So using an accelerometer (a component used to detect orientation) to detect the orientation of a device... This is clearly patentable genius! Come on, patents are there to give incentive to innovate and develop. Using a component for it's intended use is not that. If they developed the Accelerometer, fair play, otherwise, this is rubbish.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    2. Re:Accelerometers? by sstamps · · Score: 2

      Yeah, but it's such a huge leap to using that information to update the display to follow the detected orientation. Probably took them millions of dollars and years of research to figure it out, too. Isn't that the whole point of patent protection? To give people incentive to expend copious resources coming up with something that is non-trivial and non-obvious to anyone with ordinary skill in the art? i.e., something TRULY innovative that expands the sum of man's knowledge and truly builds upon the state-of-the-art.

      Giving patents for bullshit like this cheapens real patents where real people spend real time and real money to create REAL innovations.

      When accelerometers came out, I thought they were so cool; a million OBVIOUS ideas popped into my head about how I could use them. This was one of them. It also popped into the heads of thousands of other people .. "wow, we can sense the orientation of stuff.. we can use that input to change the way information is presented in an output system". It didn't take years of research or millions of dollars. I could literally pull a few parts off the shelf, wire them together, write a little PIC code, and some UI widget code, et voila! All I needed was a problem in search of a solution, and it was RIGHT THERE!

      THAT is NOT what PATENTS are FOR.. PERIOD.

      They weren't created to protect the "I can build this in an afternoon" projects. They weren't intended for "gee, I can put these two things together and make a third thing" projects. If there is no true innovation, no real investment, what, exactly, are they supposed to protect in those cases? Someone's right to a monopoly over common-sense thinking and problem-solving?

      --
      -SS "Teach the ignorant, care for the dumb, and punish the stupid."
    3. Re:Accelerometers? by sstamps · · Score: 2

      >There's plenty of truly ingenious ideas where one comes up with "patent claims" pretty much in a couple of hours.

      You're right; that is what is wrong with patents. No real effort went into innovating anything.

      >It's engineering it into a product that takes tons of time and money. Patents aren't (and shouldn't be!) about how many resources it takes to productize the invention.

      Patents aren't supposed to be granted for just ideas which never have been implemented. You're supposed to be able to show at least a workable prototype of the so-called "invention" as part of the patent application, thus, the engineering is actually part of the cost of development for obtaining the patent.

      >They should be for ingenious stuff, period.

      Right, but WHERE is the ingeniousness of this idea? Further, WHERE is the actual expense in effort in resources to develop it?

      We already had accelerometers.
      We already had touch screens.
      We already had automatic portraitlandscape changes based on sensed orientation of an output device in the real world.
      We already had the "gesture" paradigm.

      Someone shows up with a problem statement:

      "Hey, as a user, I would like to not have my screen always reorient itself automatically because I am laying on my side in bed trying to use my multifunction smart doodad"

      In less than 5 minutes, even a layperson could have come up with "why don't you give me a gesture that lets me manually hold the orientation in place?", even the specific gesture (or one of several options). It wouldn't surprise me a bit to find out that this is actually a user suggestion.

      Then, as far as engineering goes, 15 minutes of coding, and voila!

      Pray tell, what, exactly, is the innovation here, and what is the value in giving such an "invention" a TWENTY YEAR MONOPOLY?

      Is ANY tiny incremental improvement now patent-worthy? If so, then what does that mean for REAL inventions, which come from spending millions to billions in research and development? If you want to get rich from your patent portfolio, why bother expending all those resources when all you have to do is mix red and blue paint to make purple?

      --
      -SS "Teach the ignorant, care for the dumb, and punish the stupid."
  5. It's not whether it's new... by roc97007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...it's whether you can get away with patenting it.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  6. Re:What's next? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If those previous models did rely on accelerometers, how does one exactly go about challenging this ruling and show prior art?

    First, have more money than Apple to use for legal fees.

    Second, have more money than Apple to use for legal fees.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  7. Sorry Apple, you're late... cameras had it first.. by Aphrika · · Score: 2

    Many cameras - not phones - cameras, had this functionality way before the iPhone did. Granted that in most circumstances it was only available in a camera application, but I had my Nokia N95 about three months before the original iPhone came out, and it used the exact same chip to do the same thing...

    I'm pretty sure that some high end digital SLRs had this function, possibly as far back as 2003 if memory serves me correctly.

  8. Has anyone actually RTFAed? by KNicolson · · Score: 4, Informative

    Stupid question I know, but Apple is NOT patenting rotation, but rather two gestures to lock the screen in either portrait or landscape mode, regardless of detected orientation. Whether or not such a matter is patentable is another kettle of fish.

    On a related matter, Apple long ago bought a patent from British Telecom that appears actually to be for screen rotation.

  9. Patent Everything by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It's a necessity today for companies to patent everything they possibly can. It is becoming impossible to create anything without having an arsenal of patents to fire back at the inevitable patents suits against your own device or software.

    Look at Google. They've (seemingly sensibly) not accumulated a huge portfolio of patents. The unfortunate consequence of that is that Android is going to get squeezed more and more by patent claims.

    Patent trolls' strongest weapon is the fact that they don't make anything, and so there's nothing against which a counter-claim can be made.

    The long-term bright side of this is that sooner or later Google and others will have no choice but to mount a campaign for sweeping change in the patent system. But until then, small developers will find it harder and harder to produce useful software and devices without spending all their income defending patent claims.

  10. Re:What's next? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

    If you can get legal fees if they sue you and you invalidate their patent, then I think any lawyer might want that job.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  11. Oh please, surely you're not suggesting... by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 2

    ...that a /. title is inaccurate!!!????

    --
    Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
  12. Re:What's next? by Carnildo · · Score: 2

    As far as I can tell, both the "prior art" monitors used a contact switch rather than multiple accelerometers to determine orientation. Apple's patent is on figuring out which way is "down" based on accelerometer readings and selecting "portrait" or "landscape" based on that.

    --
    "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  13. Re:Besides... by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unenforceable but widely applied patent is an extremely powerful tool in big corporations' hands. It can be used as a part of a package to hit smaller companies who simply do not have the resources to debunk such attacks, as a deterrent to competition, as an additional bargaining chip in patent negotiations, etc.

    The sheer amount of effort and costs associated debunking the patent against a crack team of lawyers backing it up, and en-masse usage where focusing on these elementary patents takes away from harder aspects of the case are what makes it valuable.

  14. Re:What's next? by Khyber · · Score: 2

    Third, just put a gun against Jobs head and pull the trigger.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  15. Re:What's next? by Khyber · · Score: 3, Informative

    And my Kodak C743 has done EXACTLY that WELL before Apple ever thought of it.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  16. Re:What's next? by captain_sweatpants · · Score: 2

    They figured out how to use an accelerometer to measure changes in acceleration.
    Who would have thought acceleration occurs when you rotate something? Genius!

  17. because they are hypocrites? by decora · · Score: 3, Insightful

    if big business back in the 1980s had come down on Apple like Apple comes down on joe blow hacker nowdays, Apple could never have gotten out of the garage.

  18. engine + wheels is not a patent by decora · · Score: 3, Insightful

    a linkage to make the engine connect to the wheels, thats a patent.

    a method to make the engine work reliably, thats a patent.

    a device to crank the engine through a battery, thats a patent.

    "stick motor on wheels" should not be a patent.

  19. Re:What's next? by zero.kalvin · · Score: 2

    The question is, shouldn't a patent be awarded only for something non-trivial even for experts in that field ? I mean this is hardly a genius work. You write a function that depends on the values of the accelerometer and voila you get the proper orientation! What am I missing here?