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Gamification — Valid Term or Marketing-Speak?
Trepidity writes "Controversy continues over the seemingly unstoppable trend of 'gamification' (something we've discussed previously). The University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business held a Gamification Symposium entitled 'For The Win' this week, indicating apparent academic respectability. But in the opening panel debating definitions of 'gamification,' one participant, game scholar Ian Bogost, defined it as 'bulls***.' Elsewhere, Jon Radoff responds that it may not be BS, but is too focused on superficial behaviorism rather than deeper gameplay. For my part, I wonder if by claiming gamification is a completely new thing, rather than just a new word, we're missing out on important past lessons, like the very strange history of Soviet gamification."
Im all for gamification, how could you not want womens legs to get even more attractive?
Monstar L
Gammification, which made me think turd-speak word for increasing gamma.
Bullshit.
That's the word, Trepidity, go ahead and say it.
I'm not aware of any profanity filter on slashdot. There's no point to being so obsessively proper, so self-righteous, or so whatever it is you were trying to be that you should choose to bleep out a swear word in a direct quote. Just say the freaking word.
I occasionally chugged an entire bottle of Southern Comfort in just a few hours on a Friday or Saturday night.
Today, I'd have the option of attending a panel discussion on "Using Gamification to Achieve Business Objectives in the Web 2.0 Economy".
Similar result...
Is this submission a late April Fools joke? If there's one thing worse than symposiums where they debate the meaning of the word 'gamification', it's an online discussion about such symposiums on Slashdot.
E pluribus unum
A symposium held by a business school hardly counts as "academic respectability".
Goatse, tubgirl, advertisement or in between?
Let me give you a simple example of gamification: karma points on Slashdot.
This is a brand new paradigm shift it will streamline interactive infomediaries and expedite killer technologies by moving beyond the web 2.0 experience!
With our new gamification focused ubiquitous communities we can target synergistic relationships and deploy customized deliverables by maximize compelling content!
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The above random grouping of pure bullshit words could get me a job in many companies. If i'd be willing to sell my soul.
Worse, a website selling essays.
"gamification", rhyming with "ramification". That's how I'll hear it in my head when i read it, and that's how i'll be doomed to say it until I can teach myself to pronounce it the right way.
FTR, I had to do the same for "linux". Even to this day (after 15 years), I still read it as "lye-nucks", and it took me nearly 3 years* to pronounce it correctly, even when I knew better and even while it's "lye-nucks" in my head.
*plus or minus several months of only encountering the word in reading, never hearing another person speaking it.
do() || do_not();
"Gamification" only works when there are appropriate rewards, something that won't happen in a stale corporate environment. For example, a typical reward is pride, but it has to be meaningful. For example, getting the high score on an arcade machine was a big reward because everyone would see your initials (or, your creative word such as ASS or SEX). Now, playing the same game that was addicting when the entire town was at the arcade on a deserted island is unlikely to have the same effect. Same thing with virtual rewards on MMOs, the bigger the MMO the more important the reward. For example, a one of a kind item in WoW is going to be a lot more rewarding than a one of a kind item in an MMO with only 100 users, or an MMO where no one can see your item. Another reward is getting to see the completion of a storyline, be it primitive in nature like Donkey Kong, or as fancy as the newest RPG, people want to see how it turns out. Other reasons are pure curiosity about what lies down the road and the fun of customizing and upgrading.
Chances are slim that a non-gaming corporation can actually pull off what makes gaming meaningful and make a fun game.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Everybody enjoys fun things, and making dull things fun has been around since the beginning of recorded history. Ever heard the phrase "Life is a Game"?
This term is as useful as a punch to the groin. See what I did there? I made writing, and I maybe reading, a bit more fun. I wonder how many I's I can use in a sentence? See, I did it again. Fun!
This whole concept makes me afraid of business latching on to this stupid idea and causing a crap load of problems. Partly because of the work that is never fun, thus never gets done. Or the work that gets barely done because it is not fun enough. Or just simply people who won't learn how to do something new, because someone else hasn't made a game out if it yet (i.e.never will).
This is a terrible idea to push, let alone adopt. It might have its place it limited settings, like for 7 year olds in school, like, for every book you read you get 5 points. Oh ya, I did that when I was a kid. I recall that I could care less about the points, but I did want to read more books than Danny. Funny.
Just what the hell is this, and why do I feel like I'm at marketers meeting?
Om, nomnomnom...
Soviet Gamification is still used in coal mines in the eastern US. Miners are given stickers for success in areas like safety and production quotas, etc. . . . .
The really clever bit about Ian Bogost calling it bullshit is that Ian Bogost is the creator of the Facebook game parody "Cow Clicker".
Turgid? Tumescent? Priapism? Viagra? Engorgement? Sorry. You lose the right to call BS on anyone else.
or trying to sell custom essays on a random forum
fuck off spammer
I've been saying for 20 years that application software that doesn't feel like a videogame is a failure. I just never had a word for it. I'm glad there is one now.
This is in contrast to the cheesy words "mashup" (replacing "integration") and "cloud" (replacing "server" and actually now meaning the opposite of its original "Internet connection" or "peer-to-peer" meaning from 90's PowerPoints).
I am surprised no one suggested the Extra Credits video on Gamifaction
They also did a followup on Gamifying education
Sounds cool
BUT , I watched the gamification sales videos (Gabe Zichermann and Seth Priebatsch) - the realisation is that all they are really about is making a s**t load of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ off teh farmville concept. I don't really think they care much about the quality of the said gamification process.
goo.gl
Please go light yourself on fire and die a painful death.
Ahh, the Europeans well understand gamed non-monetary rewards. Men would sell their souls for a knighthood or a Legion d’Honeur. Napoleon said “men are lead by trifles”.
Soviet gamification and management techniques are worth studying. Yes, the Soviet Union’s economy did slide into stagnation in the 1980s but a major factor was the collapse of export markets in Third World nations in the 1970s.
The management methods of the Economic Rationalists introduced into Australian industry in the 1980s were eerily reminiscent of Leninist management. The vocabulary was different – no Stakhanovism or “over-exceeding the norms” – but you could find parallels for “flat structures” and “owning the process” not to mention vision statements and team bonding and all the other horrors. All of them, ways of getting you to work harder for less money.
Seriously though, soviet industry grew enormously in that early period, right up to the 1970s. There was a dreadful human cost, but look at what the Industrial Revolution in Europe did in its early years, in terms of death, disease and oppression.
I'll be playing the nintendo version rather than the zynga one; ya gota watch out for these Skinner Boxes!
But in all seriousness, there will be good and bad examples of gamification, the ones that are tied to "rewards programs" will probably be as numerous as the "entertainment based" title, and there will be people that take it to the point of neglect, it's human nature...
Imagine what's going to happen when "Augmented Reality Glasses" become available and where all playing games 24/7...
Perhaps we need to make games to make people addicted to being "more functional"...
It took all of my willpower not to title this essay, "In Soviet Russia, Gamification Engages You".
Awesome!
I'd say it's more about making things addictive. How many times have you been doing something that has been "gamified" for hours, only to eventually realize that you are no longer having fun, but just waiting to hear that little DING that means you are getting some reward. Now fun can be the method of getting you addicted; fun things make great rewards. But as it is currently being used by companies, it's about the addiction.
Watch it, and understand the elements of psychology that game designers use to get you addicted and keep you that way.
Jonathon Blow on Gamification
It's long, but it's worth it.
Isn't "gam" slang for a woman's leg?
So that means they're going to look at legs! :) Turn the entire crowd into genuine gam-lovers. :)
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
I recently discovered the existence of 'penny auction' websites, which are a gamified version of eBay et al. In short, each bid raises the price by 1 cent, but placing a bid costs you 60 cents, which you can't get back. The person who places the last bid wins, and the timer resets to 15 seconds or so if someone places a bid when there's less than that amount of time left. Obviously, this leads to bidding wars, where people have sunk money (in the form of bids) and are unwilling to lose the auction. The value of the 60 cent bids placed often far exceeds the value of the item.
The site I browsed had a FAQ pleading that their business model isn't (legally considered) gambling, although they eventually admit that it is gamified auctioning. I think many people intuitively feel that the distinction is morally dubious.
Furthermore, Boy Scout badges are pretty similar to Achievements.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Why aren't they all like Achievement Unlocked or Upgrade Complete?
They generally have actual gameplay, some sort of challenge or some kind of story.
For sites like StackOverflow, yeah, the badges and such are a bit over done, but even then you have an actual community of people and the reason you're interested in earning them is because people can see you actually had to do something that other people found, if not useful in their paying job, at least informative.
If you're "gamifying" something that is completely pointless and insubstantial, it's bullshit. You can't start with bullshit, add some achievements and upgrades and get anything more than warmed over bullshit.
... the new snake-oil for slick marketers, hipster wannabe game developers and incompetent academics.
What we're really talking about here is engagement. The word "gamification" is a misnomer. Games have tapped into some aspects of human mind and behavior that can make some subset of learning and perhaps other experiences more rewarding/engaging. But this is far cry from all the unrealistic over-the-top hype that 'gamification is going to change everything', which is just pure bullshit.
It's worth noting that the University of Pennsylvania is making the societal implication of games this year's "academic theme." The summer reading book for freshmen is Jane McGonigal's "Reality is Broken." This is something that they, as a university, are paying a lot of attention to, not just a buzzword to them.
It sounds a bit like someone has picked one single aspect of Virtual Reality (VR) and chose to forgot the immense amount of research put into the subject.
I think it's a nice service to bleep stuff that appears on the front page. For one thing, many people *are* browsing it at work where they may find it nice to be able to browse the summaries without triggering content filters or otherwise being bothered by NSFW content. If, after seeing the abbreviated summary, they wish to climb in the manhole, they can click on the article and enjoy all it has to offer.
The proper term is "motivation". There's a lot more to motivating people (for example, in the workplace) than providing game-style rewards. For example, feeling that you're part of the social group. Not having to worry about your state of employment from day to day. Feeling that your boss listens to you. Feeling that your work contributes something to society. Not being hindered in your work by beaureacracy or office politics. And so on. In fact, there are researchers who claim (very reasonably, IMHO) that setting up reward systems ruins the natural work satisfaction which is there to begin with.
I think the term "gamification" does more to confuse than enlighten. It's an easy-to-understand buzzword which makes it sound like these ideas are specific to gaming and unexplored by psychology. By all means, get inspiration from gaming, but also read the psychological research which is available.
I think the term can even do a lot of damage if it inspires people to construct reward systems, which IMHO are usually misguided.
Which makes it more horrible IMO
And, how many times have you done that 'action' and felt like a smuck once you've realized how much of your life has just been wasted? If addiction and gamification is required to make you do something, I worry about important things being done that aren't gamified.
I'm all for making things fun, musical stairs
But does my next pay day get determined by how many bugs I fix, or how many hours I stay at work in 'overtime'? I certainly hope not!
Those game links are awesome. I wish I hadn't spent my one-shot mod-any-post-to-6 upgrade already, so I could do your post, getting you a rare achievement.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
What is it about some games that makes them addictive? It's not just the score.
If you want to gamify something, how about making it an enjoyable experience somehow. How about just making it not painful. As a concrete example: Shopping. I usually check stores' websites for price and availability before I leave the house. A couple of local stores have crappy websites where I have real trouble finding stuff. One used to make me register before I could even use its website. I almost never go to those stores. No amount of user loyalty rewards will make me put up with the inconvenience of having to struggle with the website.
Not to defend "gamification," but how can a "game scholar" call something somebody else does bullshit?
It's called self-determination theory. You have do monotonous activity at work. You choose to do it at home, usually because you are so exhausted you want entertainment that requires minimal effort. The television was called an idiot box for a reason.
The reason for the problems with the term 'gamification' go a lot deeper than anyone probably realises.
For this reason, most people, such as Mr Bogost or Jon Radoff, don't understand the nature of the problem itself, and instead concentrate on dealing it's symptoms, rather than understanding the cause.
Here's my reply to Job Radoff's blog (corrected for spelling - oops):
I'm sorry Mr Radoff, but in this particular case, you are wrong.
This problem goes far deeper than it may at first appear...
The problem with the word 'gamification' is ENTIRELY due to its label, which is based on an inconsistent use of the the word game, which is the built on its inconsistent and not fully recognised and understood definition, which is based on an lack of recognition of how it is used, which is then, further, based on a lack of recognition and understanding of part of the basic rules of English grammar - WHAT concepts types of words are used to represent, in conjunction with HOW they are used.
The actual root of this problem lies with the inconsistent definitions of the words noun and verb (in RELATION to each other).
The term gamification is used as an application of game-theory. The problem with game-theory, is that it's about far more than just GAMES. It's really about mathematical models of COMPETITIVE behaviour in a structured environment.
But competition is NOT the behaviour the word game ultimately represents. Competition, is instead, merely part of the application of the behaviour the word game happens to represent. Since this type of noun is not fully recognised as representing applications of behaviour, (things that happen), we have problems.
Competition is, of course, the same type of word - representing an application of compete. Unlike the word game, however, what competition represents does NOT have to be created by humanity in order to exist. For this reason, applying game theory in order to model, promote and enable competition and competitive behaviour, has nothing to do with the word game in itself. For this reason, the term 'gamification' that is used to label such a thing, is a complete misnomer - and THAT is the cause of the problem you (and Ian) have.
'Stupidity is an often fatal disease' - R. A. Heinlein
like he says below, the stories are edited before publishing. sooo you never know if every decision was made by submitter (sometimes thats good)
but i mean, maybe they were using regex? bulls***
bullsoya
bullsarm
bullsork
bullswat
bullsuck
bullzorg
bullz
bullzane
bullzany
bullzano
You shouldn't overdo it, or you may end up transmogrifying into a large green mutant with super-human strength, at the slightest annoyance.
Then the military will be after you with tanks and helicopters, and--let's face--all hell breaks loose from there.
-dZ.
Carol vs. Ghost
Gamification is definitely a 'real' word and a real thing. Why? Because enough people decided it would be. That's about all it takes to build a word. There's no way you can REFUDIATE me when I'm armed with such a strong argument.
So when I watch Swamp Loggers, and I see the boss offering up a company feast/cookout for delivering 100 loads of wood in a week, is that an example of gamification? I don't think the guys strive for the 100 loads to get the free meal. They can't be that hungry. There is a real psychological thing going on within the group. And the competition is not with each other or some other company. It's against the vagaries of weather and equipment malfunction best as I can assess.
Enjoy.
Like the .com bust, the thin-client bust, XML bust, and the yet-to-be cloud bust, the trend is not in any of these concepts being bullshit. The trend is in these concepts being taken away by men in gray suits and becoming the substance of what they do that is bullshit. It isn't bullshit to begin with. They take lemons and make bullshit, because it sells for more than the lemonade.
Although there are extents to gamification, there definitely is a legitimate idea here that has practical uses. Success can be counted or "scored". Failures can be given limits or "lives", which when depleted, would cause a reset or "game over". Workers with many completed tasks, regardless of outcome, can still gain experience, or "EXP" then maybe get promoted or "level up". Now, scores, lives, exp, and levels, are all numbers which can be shared and compared. And just as this information can guide and govern the flow of a game environment, it can with a work environment. This is inspired by games and would be my best guess as to a practical approach to gamification.
But who cares. For marketing and sales, gamification can be made out to be something more when it isn't, and more expensive when it shouldn't be. This is roughly how it's done.
1) Talk big, be epic, and as if you know. Pick a good myth,
"Make it a game and everyone will play it."
"Every game is fun."
2) Add financial talk that include similar terms, drop names. Feel free to lie, but applicable facts are usually easy to find.
"The game industry is huge!!"
"VCs say its the next big thing."
"Microsoft is adopting it."
3) At this point, if they buy it, it's game on. Sell them everything but the kitchen sink. Charge them for:
- per user
- per game level
- a gaming engine
- a 3D rendering machine
- 3D modelers, writers, artists
- programming and consulting fees
- the princess they get to spend the night with when they complete the game.
- customer support
The key is 1+2 meeting a specific threshold which is sell-ability, and it pretty much what triggers an industry trend driven by suits. Once a few big clients topple over, the avalanche begins. They then repeat 1 through 3 until the industry catches on, then move on to something else. But the template is more or less identical.
It's a marketing non-word, used over and over by only a handful of people (probably with a profit motive). Go look for blog posts or "articles" mentioning this word. It's always the same people pushing the use of the word.
full disclosure: i work for a marketing agency and my primary role is game programmer / designer.
Why do people care so much if a razor has an online leaderboard showing who shaved the most square meters, or if a hotel gives people badges for checking in at 2 places 1000 miles apart in a day? Yes it's marketing. Yes it's leveraging people's competitive nature to incite them to purchase the product. Yes, most often it's a bastardization of the art of game design. It's probably possible to do it right, and do it well, and it doesn't take anything away from the art of games.
Marketing bastardizes everything. photography, film, music, are all art forms that are used to sell crap. Nobody seems to be claiming that marketing has ruined these mediums and destroyed the talent pool. Sure, people will say that ad is a horrible perversion of photography. I never hear people calling for a moratorium on using photographs in marketing. Often times marketing in these mediums is even held up as a shining example of the art done well. Isn't it possible that gamification could be done well?
I don't think it's inherently bullshit. Most of the time it's going to be employed because the agencies think, this will sell our product. Some of the time it might be legitimately fun. If someone comes up with a strategy that sells a product people want and actually make a fun competition around the purchase of that product, how is that not on par with a revered tv spot? Hell. I'll grant an achievement to the best use of gamification!
Sometimes, self-censorship can be funnier than spelling it out the normal way, you [expletive deleted].
If you make me work to get something out of your attempt at marketing/advertising, you've effectively made me ignore you.
Twinstiq, game news
My first read of the headline made me think they came up with a way to make the average consumer into The Incredible Hulk. Then I realized it said Gamification and not Gammafication.
:-(
My day is now thoroughly ruined.
Cool post bro, highfive \o
Else, how could Chore Wars exist?
Gamification is what your dad said when you complained about picking up sticks in the backyard, and he replied "Let's make a game of it. See how many you can get done in a minute, and then try to beat your record for the next minute."
Gamification is what makes people practice instruments on Rock Band that would bore them in real life.
That someone who studies games could call it bullshit kinda puzzles me. It may be a silly word, and it may be misapplied to things like FourSquare badges no one cares about, but it's hardly bullshit.
c-hack.com |