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How Does GPS Change Us?

ATKeiper writes "People have talked for a while about the effects of GPS on our driving ability and our sense of direction; one researcher at McGill has even been developing an exercise regimen to compensate for our supposedly atrophying navigational ability. But is GPS reshaping our lives in a more fundamental sense? The author of this new essay draws on science, sociology, and literature to argue that GPS is transforming how we think about travel and exploration. How can we discover 'the new' in an age when everything around us is mapped?" My own experience is that GPS has made me much more aware of location, by showing me the bird's-eye view, and letting me instantly compare alternate routes.

266 comments

  1. "How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    thing around us is mapped?"

    How is this a GPS problem? Maps existed before GPS...

    Also, isn't it like asking "How can I discover new restaurants (or products) when everything is already reviewed?"

    If you want to pioneer, go to the bottom of the ocean or into space. You know, the edges of human knowledge. Don't stay safely within the confines of society and then complain that your "exploration" is already known.

    1. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by kybred · · Score: 1

      How is this a GPS problem? Maps existed before GPS...

      Yeah. I don't that that is an effect of GPS so much as an effect of the online maps (Google Maps, etc). Of course, those are dependent on GPS, so I guess it's a secondary effect.

    2. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Arguably, GPS is better than legacy maps if you want to 'discover'; because all it does is(in most module implementations) spit out a NMEA or vendor binary equivalent of x,y,z coordinates, time, and heading at intervals.

      You can have an absolutely blank "map" and still accurately place whatever you find within a reasonably well-behaved coordinate space. Plus, when you get lost, you can breadcrumb your way back home before you have to get all Donner Party on whoever is nearby...

      If you prefer to pick your discoveries from categories that you actually care about, you can selectively or fully introduce map data for roads, businesses, manhole covers, whatever...

      Plus, of course, there is the entire class of "discovery" where having a really accurate timebase that isn't full of caesium is pretty handy...

      Guess what, back in the day, the fact that the horizon of human knowledge was so narrow didn't tend to promote discovery, it tended to promote people living, breeding, and dying within spitting distance of the same place and telling wild stories about antipodian monsters and the Kingdom Of Prestor John. Good navigational aids, on the other hand, get people off their asses because they make travel more valuable and less risky.

      Now, if you want to talk about what GPS has done to the kiddie's compass and map-reading skills, go right ahead; but a highly accurate coordinate reference system is a boon to discoverers. Those poor guys undertaking the Great Trigonometric Survey would likely have happily given a testicle for access to GPS fixes...

    3. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      I'm a GPS addict and managed on more than one occassion to out-orienteer an Army Ranger Orienteering instructor. It's not just being able to use a compass, but to "feel" the lay of the land to sense where the contours on the map are under your feet so that you can make minute corrections with no external references. Following the explicit rules without taking the bigger picture into your head will leave you lost with a very accurate path of how you got there. GPS and extensive use of digital maps don't hurt the "art" of finding your way. They just make it much more safe if you ever do get actually lost (not the "oh no, I have to back-track 100 yards to that srtream and follow that for 30 yards to the road" lost that panics an army ranger trying to show off his trade).

    4. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by mathew7 · · Score: 1

      I read just a few line in the article, but apart from history, it seems the article is about navigation SW (with GPS HW), not pure GPS.
      I remember I just used 2-3 times the "navigation" part of the SW, the rest was just birds-eye view of my current location.

    5. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by headLITE · · Score: 1

      The kind of access to maps is different. Also, more things are mapped.

      Almost all my portable gadgets have GPS these days. I can pull out my phone, tablet, or my actual old GPS receiver with openstreetmap data on it, and instanty see where I am, where I can go, how to do that fast, and what places of interest are nearby. Some of the digital maps (especially everything based on openstreetmap) are very flexible regarding modes of travel I want to choose; I can use the same map for fast car routes, scenic bike routes, or just general walking around. The possibility to find my way to wherever I want to go very quickly alone has drastically changed how I approach visits to places I haven't been to before - no more studying maps before leaving the hotel room. I can look up nearby bus and tram stops and see upcoming trains; I don't even have to look at the map at the stop I decide to go to because my phone can tell me the same thing plus what trains I actually need to take to get to my destination and how long it'll take me to get there. There is an app that will find geographically close wikipedia articles and tell me not only what places I should visit, but also why, and what happened to them during recorded history and which well-known persons were born in the vicinity. There is an app that will find nearby restaurants and give me up-to-date ratings for them, tell me when they're open and what kind of food they serve at what prices; I can filter by type of food which is handy when you're on a specific diet like I am. There is an app that will let me find nearby stores and browse their digitized paper catalog. There is an app that lets me scan bar codes on items in stores and can tell me how much cheaper I can get it elsewhere. There is an app that will tell me what the codified ingredients in products I can buy in a supermarket really are, how they are made, and whether they can cause allergies. I can instantly find out what alternatives to the product exist, and where I can get them nearby (although I don't know an app for that, but there's always the web).

      The only thing that is missing is accessing this information via video glasses and some sort of hidden input device and then I'll call myself a full blown cyborg. This is hardly the same thing as paper maps. It's not even close. It just happens that some of the information is presented in a visually similar style.

    6. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      TFA isn't.talking about frontier exploration, merely the joy of visiting new places and discovering all the little nooks and crannies. Like people do on holiday.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by Requiem18th · · Score: 1

      TFA is about how GPS changes the way our brains understand navigation. It is not about how we shouldn't have maps as much as pointing out that it changes the way people understand their environment.

      --
      But... the future refused to change.
    8. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      It also changes they way my money is spent.
      I always use my GPS because it beeps if I'm speeding. Since my gov. introduced point-based licenses, too much speeding tickets get your license revoked. Also >50% overspeeding is now a crime that gets you jail time.
      So I don't have to watch the speedometer all the time to avoid paying up when the cops install a speed trap.
      It also warns me of the fixed radar speed-traps, that get moved around a lot.
      I didn't get a single speeding ticket since I used this.
      I always wondered why the Navigators don't have an option to set the maximum speed on the cruise control automatically at every speed change, instead of forcing me to do it manually.

      I also noticed that even if your choice is 'shortest route', that it tries to avoid residential areas as much as possible, so if everybody used this, we'd all sleep better because there's less traffic where you live that way.

    9. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can have an absolutely blank "map" and still accurately place whatever you find within a reasonably well-behaved coordinate space. Plus, when you get lost, you can breadcrumb your way back home before you have to get all Donner Party on whoever is nearby...

      And that's an advantage? I mean, yum.

    10. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm exploring a lot more thanks to having GPS; sure they're places humans have been before, but not places I have been.

      In general I have a good sense of direction, so I can usually have an approximate idea of where to go. GPS let's me ensure that when I do get off, I have a way of correcting. It also provides decent location so I can better estimate how long things will take. THus I'm much safer exploring then without it; of course I originally learned how to do everything via cumpas and map so I may not be typical.

    11. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by buback · · Score: 1

      or just don't use the maps/gps

    12. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      I often set my GPS to my destination then simply ignore it as I drive there. I look down periodically to see what it believes my ETA to be (and my newest Tomtom device is notoriously accurate in this regard), but I only use it for the actual directions when going somewhere I haven't been before.

      On the other hand, I've been playing a lot with Waze on my Android phone lately, and I love its collaborative approach to mapping and notifications. If I leave Waze runningw hile driving, it records my average speeds and uses them for calculating best routes for other drivers, it lets me submit events in realtime like traffic jams, police speed traps, accidents, construction zones, etc. which are reported to other Waze users (Wazers) in real-time allowing them to avoid these if they're using it for nagivation.

      Interestingly, it also allows recording or fixing of roads online, which is a great feature for people who live in areas with poorly maintained maps. It even supports fixing of house number locations.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    13. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by hedwards · · Score: 1

      That was my thought. I can't imagine how this is any worse for our ability to navigate than maps and city layouts with convenient signs everywhere. What's more there is the occasional occurrence of death by GPS, so I'm guessing that GPS is probably somewhat less helpful at times than a good map is.

    14. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, if you want to talk about what GPS has done to the kiddie's compass and map-reading skills, go right ahead

      During a recent family get-together we had a discussion about the clock-reading ability of "kids now-a-days". Every parent complained that their kids had a lot of trouble reading analog clocks because the vast majority of clocks they see are digital.

      Example story: One 11-year old was playing video games on the big screen in the living room and wanted to know what time it was. He completely ignored the analog clock right above the TV, and walked all the way into the kitchen to look at the digital clock on the oven. And this is one of the smartest kids I've ever met.

    15. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by kevorkian · · Score: 1

      or use google maps ... that is an aggregate of the data available for the area. DOT alerts .. traffic sensors .. and just about any other info that can be had for a specific road.

      Heck .. I use it a lot for navigating the NYC subway system. And it is so accurate there it is insane. it is VERY rare that I am not stepping on a train within a minute or two of when google predicts that one should be there.

      driving is almost always within 5 or 10 minutes per hour of driving time. And the error is often on the side of caution ( assumes 55 on a 55 road , not 65 or 70 which is closer to normal )

    16. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by kevorkian · · Score: 1

      Well... likely your shortest route is indeed the shortest road miles ( with number of turns used to break ties )

      In one of then grid like residential areas .. going 10 blocks east , and then 10 blocks north , is better then 1 block north , one block east , repete 10 times. Because there is no option to go 10 blocks north east.

    17. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by kevorkian · · Score: 1

      Death by gps ?? next you will be call "getting shot" death by chemical reaction ( The explosion of the gun powder )

    18. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by BetaDays · · Score: 1

      I love to use my GPS to discover how the maps on it are wrong.

      --
      Paul: Father... father, the sleeper has awakened! - Dune
    19. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool story. bro.

    20. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by ikeman32 · · Score: 1

      thing around us is mapped?" How is this a GPS problem? Maps existed before GPS...

      The problem with GPS is that it is basically a computer which you hope someone programed the software correctly and that all the information is up to date and correct. Technology is a good thing but relying on it for everything can be a dangerous thing. What happens when a GPS breaks down and the driver can't read the map that he/she has collecting dust in the trunk and they have no cell service to cry for help?

      "911 what is your emergency?" Caller: "My GPS is broke and I am lost without it." 911 operator: "Mrs. Smith is that you? Look you can't keep calling us every time you go out to get your nails done. You're three blocks from home good bye." Click.

      Six hours later. "911 what is your emergency?" Caller: "Yeah I want to report a missing person. My wife hasn't returned from the nail salon." 911 operator: "Mr. Smith? Relax she just three blocks south of home and she can't find her way home without her !#@# GPS. I would suggest you lever her there over night, might do her some good." Caller: "Oh...Is that all? And here I was hoping that Aliens might kidnap her and take her away." 911 operator: "We can't get that lucky can we?" ringing in the background. Caller: "Don't you need to get that? It might be an emergency." 911 operator: "Nah, it's just your wife again, she figured out how to put in her spare battery."

    21. Re:"How can we discover 'the new' in an age when by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      The local traffic data on Google Maps is nice, but the real-time alerts from fellow drivers on Waze are faster. Aggregating both would be nice but a licensing issue as I understand it.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
  2. Obvious... by msauve · · Score: 3, Insightful

    at least to me.

    I've broadened by navigational horizons. First, by turning on "Avoid Highways," which exposes you to side roads. Secondly, I've found that GPS can show you shorter routes you might never have found/taken because you chose the simple/easy route.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:Obvious... by rolfwind · · Score: 2

      My GPS takes longer, side roads rather than the shorter/faster routes without me even asking for it. In this one area, it even gets off the main road and backs up into a side road and takes 3 extra turns, just to get where the main road would have taken me in 1/3 of the time and straight ahead. Another "helpful" routing was that rather go 1 more exit on the highway and be at that destination, it cuts it short and takes me through town's main street with a light every 50 feet. A five minute trip turned into a 45 minute one.

      Of course, it's a crappy 5 y/o Garmin rather than Google Maps.

    2. Re:Obvious... by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you have that thing configured wrong or it just plain sucks. Mine will take different routes at different times of the day based on past traffic patterns, and the worst I can say for it is that it loves major roads, and I don't.

      Which is probably a good thing, if not always optimal. At least they're likely to be able to support the traffic.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    3. Re:Obvious... by PPH · · Score: 2

      Avoiding highways and using side roads raises the ire of the locals. Now, instead of sitting in a traffic jam, we can (without fear of getting lost) cut through the adjacent neighborhoods.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Obvious... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Both my Garmin and my TomTom do things like that at times. It's not configuration, and it's not the device sucking. It's poor maps that don't know anything about traffic lights.

      Case in point, if you ask for directions to Holy Cross in Santa Cruz from the South Bay, the Garmin directs you to take the left exit onto Ocean Street, take a right at Water, and turn right onto Emmett St. If you don't know what you're doing, that avoids an awkward, light-free left turn at Emmett, but it takes about ten minutes longer because A. it's 30 MPH city streets (I think) instead of 45 MPH for most of Chestnut, and B. the traffic lights on Water at Center and Pacific conspire to make you wait a small eternity, plus the light on Water at River, plus three or four lights on Ocean, for a total of six or seven lights, all of which you will almost invariably hit red, statistically speaking. BTW, Google Maps also gives the same set of awful directions.

      You can avoid most of those lights and still avoid the awkward left turn by taking the right fork and turning left at River St and right where Pacific branches off, but that's still five traffic lights (one of which you're turning right at) instead of two if you had taken the right fork and turned left at Mission instead. So it's not a lot slower, but it is a little slower most of the time.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    5. Re:Obvious... by bgat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If we could get past the obvious privacy implications, seems like Google Maps et. al could incorporate the route you ACTUALLY took into future requests for similar routes. It always irritates me when I get an obviously sub-optimal route from Google Maps, but it's never clear to me how to actually fix the problem. If Google took feedback from where I actually drove instead, over time the problem might fix itself.

      --
      b.g.
    6. Re:Obvious... by QuasiSteve · · Score: 2

      That's what I do when I just want to drive around - though I take it one step further and just let it calculate the shortest route between a few random towns I don't recognize. If it warns me there's unpaved roads - all the better!

      It's taken me past more windmills than I knew even existed around here, it's taken me to a little harbor town that looked like it should be a tourist trap but there was barely a soul in sight, it took me past two camels doing the procreation dance (note: I'm in western Europe, and no.. there wasn't a circus in town), it's taken me to back roads that were widened for agricultural traffic but were absolutely dead and going 180km/h was safe and nobody around to say otherwise and cite me, just as it's taken me to back roads that could hardly be called roads and all and required me to crawl along at 5km/h, zigzagging my way through what seemed like the path least likely to get my car (not a 4x4) stuck.

      Some of my best 'just driving around' I owe to the GPS. I would rarely have ventured into random roads myself, as many of them here are traps into one-way mazes, or lead into housing areas where that very road is the only entry and exit road, but you'll never find it again once you're in the middle of the area.

      More recently, I drove through the California mountain range at night. The GPS (on an Android phone) was a great help in anticipating what the road was going to do - especially in the Arizona/desert side where there's long straight roads that go up and down like a rollercoaster.. at least you think they go straight until you go up a hill and- oh hello, bend.

      And in another instance, I very much appreciate GPS coupled with other information systems to get me to my destination as quickly as possible when I'm not traveling for the scenery, and the device can tell me to take a different road if it knows the one I'm on is congested and the alternate will get me there faster.

    7. Re:Obvious... by icebike · · Score: 1

      Try updating your maps. Its not the Garmin's fault.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    8. Re:Obvious... by icebike · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Avoiding highways and using side roads raises the ire of the locals. Now, instead of sitting in a traffic jam, we can (without fear of getting lost) cut through the adjacent neighborhoods.

      Not necessarily.

      When people planned trips with gas station maps they never left the freeway. Biggest risk they would take is a US Route.
      When the freeway bypassed small towns those towns died.

      Now with Nav units, and Google maps people will actually choose (horrors) State Highways (yup) when traveling. Recently we were delighted to find some great little towns with nice shops along our route when we deliberately set the the GPS to take us off the freeway via US routes and State routes. The distance was shorter, the view better, and the total time ended up about the same, because there is so little traffic and fewer traffic cops.

      Folks in the restaurant in this one out of the way little berg in eastern Oregon said they saw a lot of people who found the place via Google maps or their GPS, and business had actually picked up since Street View car mapped the entire route. They were glad to have the business as was the local hotel.

      When see the type of highway you will be driving on the back routes are far more fun, and the GPS makes sure you don't end up sleeping in the car.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    9. Re:Obvious... by adolf · · Score: 2

      It always irritates me when I get an obviously sub-optimal route from Google Maps, but it's never clear to me how to actually fix the problem. If Google took feedback from where I actually drove instead, over time the problem might fix itself.

      Interestingly enough, they do: Google Map Maker. It was (somewhat negatively) covered here on Slashdot awhile back, but I can't be bothered to find TFA just now.

      It's not automatic, but then I don't know that it should be: A lot of what's wrong with a routing system (any of them) are factual errors which in turn lead to incorrect routing.

      I've fixed/added/deleted a number of things around my own town, and have had every change (that I didn't screw up myself somehow) be accepted. (Rejected edits came with feedback to improve the submission.)

      In particular, Google had some completely bizarre and/or plainly impossible routes to get from my house to the nearest interstate, which made trips out of town very annoying whenever I'd actually take the time to set a destination before leaving.

      For instance: I know the right and proper way to get to the highway; but the bitch inside my phone always insisted I was doing it wrong and that I should both drive around the block and use an entrance ramp an extra mile away for no good reason.

      It turned out that some intersections were described improperly, with wrong-wayed streets leading to them, and incorrect turn restrictions. A few edits later (and some passage of time), and it's working fine.

      Map Maker is a crowd-sourced moderator-based system, apparently including some concept of karma/reputation: Your edits are reviewed by your peers (and if not, eventually by Google), and if they're sane, they're applied. And if you have enough sanity in your edits, eventually it gets get easier/faster to have your edits "stick."

      Previous to Map Maker they had a system on their regular Google Maps web interface where you could describe what was wrong (ie: complain) and they'd try to fix it themselves if you bothered to fill out the rather non-complicated form...but I only had about 50% luck with that actually producing correct results.

    10. Re:Obvious... by Alioth · · Score: 1

      This is why GPS must be used intelligently. You've got to review a route rather than just taking it. At least the TomTom app gives you easy access to see the route (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps the user interface isn't all that great on the older Garmins, I have an aviation Garmin from a few years ago and it's very slow, and the UI is shockingly bad).

    11. Re:Obvious... by adolf · · Score: 2

      This, exactly: "Avoid highways" sometimes is almost always shorter, and usually just as fast in the real world. The change from 65-90MPH divided highway driving to "look at that," or "let's stop at this diner" is refreshing and makes trips far more enjoyable whenever time is not of the essence (and sometimes, even when it is)...and the food is better. :)

      But sometimes, I wish my GPS had more than an "Avoid Highways" setting; maybe even "Avoid US route" and "Avoid state routes" toggles.

      "Avoid Highways," both on my Droid and my Garmin, still tends to keep me pretty well on the beaten path: It seems happy to pick a 2-lane US route and stick with it for an eternity, and that's just boring.

      Even for work, when I might drive 2 hours to get to where I've got to be, I often don't want to take the same route back home. I'm already wore out from one moderate drive and a day's work; the last thing I want is to see the same scenery again on a straight section of 2-lane road that seems to never end, as that would only add to my fatigue.

      The Droid will allow me to choose from a variety of alternate routes, but those invariably consist of the most major "non-highway" roads it can come up with: Generally, a choice of longer routes consisting of the same boring shit. And that's not what I want: I want stop signs. I want little towns. I want curvy roads, ups and downs, and scenery. I do enjoy generally enjoy driving, but I want anything but the dangers of this.

    12. Re:Obvious... by cyclomedia · · Score: 1

      Amen to that, I have had a similar experience in the UK, and the near-straight route to my home town is a whopping 30 miles shorter via the countryside than the motorway (freeway) network, meaning it takes about the same length of time but is a much more pleasant drive (you can't exactly stop for a picnic and feed the ducks at the side of the motorway) AND because you're averaging 40/50 MPH instead of 70 MPH you're fuel efficiency is higher to boot, can almost make the round trip on one tank.

      --
      If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
    13. Re:Obvious... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      It all depends on if you want to travel fast or if you want to have an experience.

      Setting the GPS on shortest route gives you an interesting way, but you may want to avoid gravel roads in some cases or you end up in someone's back yard. It could be overly interesting in some cases - especially since GPS:es doesn't care about private roads.

      And you are always free to alter the route whenever you like and still reach the goal.

      I have found stuff that I never would have found otherwise if I hadn't been going by the shortest route. And speed may not be an issue either. I have a friend that has vacations where some days are travel days and other days are transport days. Travel days - that's the days where you see things, an you may end up traveling only a few miles that day. Transport day is when you need to catch a ferry or similar.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    14. Re:Obvious... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Next generation GPS:es should have options where interest points for a route could be added in form of scenic, shopping, etc. Then let the driver decide what scores that are interesting and their weight.

      Of course - also information about dangerous areas should be put out to avoid car jackers or other obnoxious stuff.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    15. Re:Obvious... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 0

      It was (somewhat negatively) covered here on Slashdot awhile back, but I can't be bothered to find TFA just now

      The negative review was because non-evil Google is making their own thing rather than cooperating with an established community, while evil Microsoft is permitting that community to trace their aerial photography.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    16. Re:Obvious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I drove from Vegas to LA with a car rental Garmin GPS. It took me off an exit, down a narrow slow road parallel to the highway, then back onto it. I think it must have cut a corner on the highway. Silly thing - I'd have thought there'd be some penalty in the algorithm for exiting/turning.

    17. Re:Obvious... by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      information about dangerous areas should be put out

      Municipalities would hate that. The companies would be blasted for discriminating against minority and working-class communities. And it's probably not necessary - in the US, I know of plenty of areas that look bad but are actually OK, but almost none that look OK but are actually bad. Keep your eyes open and don't be afraid to turn around.

    18. Re:Obvious... by PPH · · Score: 1

      Of course - also information about dangerous areas should be put out to avoid car jackers or other obnoxious stuff.

      Like information about tolls.

      My city is getting ready to go apeshit with tolls. Drivers are finding routes around them.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    19. Re:Obvious... by maxume · · Score: 1

      Who are these mythical people? Michigan has been giving away maps with well marked county roads for decades, I would guess many other states are similar.

      I guess you might only find the map if you drive into the state on a highway and stop at a "Welcome Center".

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    20. Re:Obvious... by DanTheManMS · · Score: 1

      Waze does this, and it's part of the reason I like using it, even if its navigational skills aren't all that good overall.

    21. Re:Obvious... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I have a crappy four year old Magellan with two year old maps. Every time I route it wants to know if I want it fastest, shortest, most freeways, or least freeways. It also has a detour feature where you can select the number of miles to skip. And it's actually quite good at knowing which road to send me down to get me there faster.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:Obvious... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      What we have in my area is retarded signage. On a 55mph road you'll have a sign saying 35 on a turn on which you can easily do 45 even in the rain, followed by a turn which says nothing on which you should be doing 25. It would be nice if the GPS could notify you when you're coming up on something like this (which happens ALL THE TIME on CA Highway 175, for example.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re:Obvious... by AJH16 · · Score: 1

      I've also found it makes my driving better and helps me stay alert. A GPS may be distracting when you first get it, but if you are used to it and have it well mounted, it provides great information on what is coming up ahead so you can focus on the traffic around you and not have to split your attention between what is coming up ahead of you (like turns and such) and what is going on around you. It also gives more than one thing to focus on so you can shift focus periodically to avoid losing focus or losing alertness.

      --
      AJ Henderson
    24. Re:Obvious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Avoid highways" sometimes is almost always shorter

      what

    25. Re:Obvious... by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      MapMaker is already taking on the elitist attitudes in the moderation system (Wikipedia rejects?). I know a few folks who have made edits in a neighborhood they live in and know very well only to have dick moderators constantly reject and start an edit war despite giving proof in the form of aerial photography and street view photos that a street is/is not actually present.

    26. Re:Obvious... by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      Back in the old days, one would procure local map and trace out an alternate route. The freebies you get at the state visitor's centers are usually pretty good for this task.

    27. Re:Obvious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did a trip up to Bar Harbor last weekend. Driving US-1 up the coast of Maine in a convertible is about a thousand times more fun than watching the trees on I-95.

    28. Re:Obvious... by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Use a Tomtom with IQ Routes. The IQ Routes feature has average speed data for each road stored by time of day and day of week so it navigates you along the probably fastest route based on average travel speed.

      PS Never never never choose 'shortest route' when navigating with a GPS unless you actually don't care about how long it will take you. Fastest is the correct choice.

      PPS on GPS systems that support it, if you don't plan to drive much faster on highways than on side roads, simply set a speed limited option to something like "80km/h" (or your equivalent) and it will assume you won't exceed that speed and navigate you appropriately.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    29. Re:Obvious... by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      This feature is actually implemented in Waze for Android/IPhone/BB. If you enable it, it remembers your common routes and uploads them to the server. Not only does it consider them in the future for your own navigation but it uses them when offering others routes as well.

      That is to say, if you happen to have discovered a good route to avoid traffic when commuting, it may share that route with other users if it agrees that its faster.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    30. Re:Obvious... by registrationssucks · · Score: 0

      On a 55mph road you'll have a sign saying 35 on a turn on which you can easily do 45 even in the rain, followed by a turn which says nothing on which you should be doing 25.

      Are you driving a semi-tractor trailer or are on an ice/snow/slush-covered road? That is what those signs are for - the worst-case scenarios. Rain under your performance tires is not a worst-case scenario.

      Audible slow-down warnings would be nice as well as red-light/speed camera/trap notifications.

    31. Re:Obvious... by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      If you don't value the higher speed roads, choose the speed limited option in your GPS (Tomtom has it at least).

      That is to say, if you don't intend to really drive over 50mph, set your speed limit in the GPS to 50 and it won't consider faster routes preferentially any more. As a result you get a lot of alternate routes that are shofter but with lower speed limits.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    32. Re:Obvious... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Those towns were a bit like railroad towns in that they relied solely upon one source of revenue. I doubt very many towns like that exist anymore.

      Personally, I live right next to a major arterial and it definitely pisses me off having all those jack asses cutting through my street as a way of bypassing the arterial. They'll drive way too fast and the street itself isn't one which can safely be driven at the typical speed limit. There's one lane and it's fairly narrow.

    33. Re:Obvious... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      I must be spending too much time on the internet since I did read the statement as "Like information about trolls".

      Not that there's much of a difference.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    34. Re:Obvious... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Yes yes, I am totally aware of what the yellow signs are for. The point is that they post them where they are not needed even in those conditions, and then fail to post them where they are needed even in good conditions. I thought my comment was fairly clear, but perhaps it needed Cliff Notes(tm).

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    35. Re:Obvious... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      That is to say, if you happen to have discovered a good route to avoid traffic when commuting, it may share that route with other users if it agrees that its faster.

      After it's done that, will it help you find you a new one?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    36. Re:Obvious... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      When people planned trips with gas station maps they never left the freeway. Biggest risk they would take is a US Route.
      When the freeway bypassed small towns those towns died.

      # Main Street isn't Main Street any more...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    37. Re:Obvious... by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Was that not descriptive enough for you, or do you need further elaboration?

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    38. Re:Obvious... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I'm certain it probably wasn't.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    39. Re:Obvious... by adolf · · Score: 1

      The Garmin I have already has a checkbox for "Avoid tolls."

      It seems to work fine. It once delivered me from downtown Chicago to NW Ohio without spending a dime on tolls.

    40. Re:Obvious... by adolf · · Score: 1

      Where I'm from, all 2-lane-ish rural roads (except at the outskirts of cities, and even then only for a mile or two) are 55MPH. It doesn't matter if they're US routes, or state routes, or county roads, or ruddy little township roads barely big enough for a single compact car: They're all the same.

      All 4-lane roads are 65MPH, with rare exception, but those are already routed around with "Avoid highways."

      If I set up a TomTom to avoid roads posted over 50MPH, the only sane result would be that it would instruct me to stay home.

    41. Re:Obvious... by adolf · · Score: 1

      That sounds like a lot of work: Even GPS units which supposedly show overall speed limits on long stretches of road seem to get it wrong much of the time, and those are at least possible to research in a not-totally-insane fashion through datamining various public DOT info and local regs.

      Individual turns, though. That just sounds hairy. Is this data published anywhere?

      Not to discount the usefulness. As a safety measure, knowing the that the turn ahead is a blind, decreasing-radius whore of a thing with opposite camber that even a 911 GT3 with soft tires would take issue with would be far more useful than in terms of safety than knowing that the McVillage that you're driving through has lowered the speed limit on their main drag to 25MPH.

      Here's how I think it should be done: First, I think, the signs need fixed. This will be expensive, but it ought to be within the charter of whatever organization it is that is supposed to take care of the road anyway. A top-to-bottom review would be best, but crowd-sourcing (by soliciting complaints and sending a qualified crew out to have a look when they're in the vicinity) would be a hell of a good start toward figuring out how to post signage.

      Second, the details need to be made available in a public fashion using some sort of format which is easily absorbed into a GPS's database. And since there's going to be a lot of review (and new data) happening anyway, this part should be just about free to implement (on the grand scale of things).

      It doesn't do anything for me, since I live in flat country where the roads are straight, and the occasional bend on a main road is always very well marked. But it'd be a big help when I'm elsewhere on unfamiliar roads...

    42. Re:Obvious... by adolf · · Score: 1

      I haven't run across that. Perhaps my neighborhood is simply not contentious enough.

    43. Re:Obvious... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Individual turns, though. That just sounds hairy. Is this data published anywhere?

      Since Google has been driving roads, they know the position and contents of all the signs, and further, it was in their capabilities to use accelerometers to map the camber (and roughness!) of each road. Surely this information could be used to determine the actual safe speed for each corner.

      Google should find a way to crowdsource street view cars, at least in part. Perhaps an opt-in feature where you can put your Android phone into a cradle that permits it to see the road? If the phone has accelerometers it could be quite useful.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    44. Re:Obvious... by adolf · · Score: 1

      Interesting idea.

      My own forays into accelerometer data have been meh, at best: At the rates that even my 325i with fairly soft street tires corners at, the results are horribly clouded with body roll and weight transfer. I think it's a bit bold to say that accelerometer data, by itself, is useful to these ends without heavily massaging the data to take the individual car into account.

      (My GMC Safari is way, way worse -- the lateral acceleration figures I get from [random app] are mostly approximate of sheer lies, as the thing pans and tilts its way down a curvy road.)

      You can't accurately map the G load from an accelerometer if you're under the influence of gravity and also suffering from body roll (and, as you know, -all- cars with not-completely-rigid suspensions (ie: air-filled tires) roll to some extent).

      Or at least you can't with my Motorola Droid. Or my first-gen iPod Touch.

      The iPhone 4 allegedly has gyroscopes as well as accelerometers, which should make an easier time of that, but that's a relatively recent development in the whole Google Streetview world of things, and I doubt that they currently have such data on very many roads.

      Should they? Yes. Will they make use of it if they do have it? Doubtful. Will proper signage make a bigger improvement in safety? I think so, but if the signage is reviewed and found to be good, then the resultant data should also be good (vis-a-vis my last post).

      IMHO, of course.

    45. Re:Obvious... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Certainly it is a voyage through data processing, but Google has been shown to have some ability in that arena.

      It may be possible to calibrate vehicles based on compared performance on known sections of road...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    46. Re:Obvious... by adolf · · Score: 1

      Yes, they've shown a lot of ability in that area. They've got more parallel CPU power than God.

      Calibrating vehicles based on comparative performance results is interesting, as well.

      But if it gets to that point, wouldn't it be simply easier to measure their actual speed through the turns? No calibrated accelerometers needed.

      Suppose they automatically tag every posted speed sign on a curve based on Streetview photographic data, and record the average speed of vehicles that traverse that curve. They then have a baseline correction for posted-worst-case vs. actual-every-day speeds, based on DOT specification and The Real World.

      This will allow them to extrapolate what a given turn should be posted an unmarked curve, while maintaining consistency with how the rest of the turns on that section of road are already posted

      Bonus points for further extrapolating that data into a prediction of what speed a specific car should be able to navigate the curve at, but I don't like the liability aspects of that myself...

      Would you like to file the patent on this yourself, or shall we apply jointly?

    47. Re:Obvious... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I imagine [someone at] Google is working on it already, but if not, I'm more than willing to share the credit...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    48. Re:Obvious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude. roads don't change that much.

  3. GPS creates two extremes. by BlakJak-ZL1VMF · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1) Smart people who know how to take GPS information and couple it with some commonsense / a genuine interest in being a little self sufficient and a little clever about navigation.

    2) People who don't care to know any better, and will simply treat them as a tool that prevents them from having to think. These are the kinds of people who will follow their GPS into a river / off a cliff / the wrong way on a one way street / etc.

    When navigating in a foreign country or in a city i'm utterly unfamiliar with, the GPS is golden. But having only had a personal one for the last few months i'm working hard not to let it dilute my head-for-direction, by continuing to look at flat maps, find points of reference, and continue to let the 'relationships' between geographic locations build in my conciousness, particularly in my home city.

    I've also found that GPS's don't always make smart navigation decisions; for example I don't believe that adding an additional 40% in distance for a theoretical 10% saving in time is actually smart driving, esp when that time saving is based on projected speed limits and doesn't deal to traffic, traffic lights, road works...

    --
    -.-. --.-
    1. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by plover · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's certainly not black and white as you make it out to be. If I want to learn a particular area, I learn it, and the GPS becomes a learning aid. If I'm somewhere on business and just want to function in the region without worrying about where everything is, I'll often let the GPS do all the navigation. I'm not a retard, and don't take illegal exits or carpool lanes just because the stupid box thinks it'll get me there; I just don't need to learn the city. I'm not there to memorize their quirky stripes of concrete, I'm there to meet people and take care of business.

      I've also found there's a wide variety in the quality of the various mapping tools. Some nav units are pretty good (Garmin), some are pretty bad (Sync), but none of the self-contained boxes I've used are as good as Google Maps at finding optimized routes. And none of the nav units is worth crap as far as parsing addresses. Having to type the number independently from the street is awkward. Having to pick a particular stretch of road based on street number (Sync) is a maddening exercise. Google just figures out how to parse whatever I throw at it, and it does a great job of it.

      --
      John
    2. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's awfully judgmental. Just because someone takes GPS for granted in their navigation, doesn't mean they're "people who don't think" or not clever. It's possible that they're just using their liberated brain power to do something more fruitful than navigate in their head.

      Plato lamented that the invention of writing was causing people to lose the skills with memory, but I don't think that was an accusation that those who write are mentally lazy.

    3. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by bgat · · Score: 1

      I'm not a retard, and don't take illegal exits or carpool lanes just because the stupid box thinks it'll get me there

      Right. And if Google Maps ever paid attention to the fact that no cars were following that portion of the route, it could conceivably decide on its own that there was something WRONG with the map at that point--- and then stop recommending that route.

      This is the upside of providing location data. Sadly, I don't know how to prevent the downsides.

      --
      b.g.
    4. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by BlakJak-ZL1VMF · · Score: 2

      Oh c'mon, it's nothing new.
      Just ask anyone in emergency services who has to implement road closures due to an accident or similar.
      This has a tendency to turn some motorists into melonheads because you've taken them off the one route they know about that gets them from A to B. Even when A is home and B is the same workplace they've commuted to for years.
      Taking away people's need to think leaves them utterly without option when they're taken out of the comfort zone - say, for example, when the GPS fails.[1]

      At least pre GPS folks actually had to look at a map, plan their route and were at least peripherally aware that alternatives existed. And heck, maybe they'd even carry their map in the car to consult if a road was blocked/closed?

      Yes of course my comment was a generalisation. However I do think that the bell curve is being flattened by GPS.

      [1]Ironically the one thing the GPS is good at, is 'rerouting' and giving you an option that doesn't require you to stop and consult a map. But my point stands. It actually reminds me of the difference between catching someone their fish for dinner, and teaching them to fish...

      --
      -.-. --.-
    5. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by BlakJak-ZL1VMF · · Score: 1

      The 40%/10% example above comes straight out of Google Maps and the Nav tool on my Android.
      I've been tinkering with iGO recently as an alternative.

      --
      -.-. --.-
    6. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2) People who don't care to know any better, and will simply treat them as a tool that prevents them from having to think. These are the kinds of people who will follow their GPS into a river / off a cliff / the wrong way on a one way street / etc.

      Technology Leads More Park Visitors Into Trouble

      Far more common but no less perilous, park workers say, are visitors who arrive with cellphones or GPS devices and little else — sometimes not even water — and find themselves in trouble. Such visitors often acknowledge that they have pushed themselves too far because they believe that in a bind, the technology can save them.

      It does not always work out that way. “We have seen people who have solely relied on GPS technology but were not using common sense or maps and compasses, and it leads them astray,” said Kyle Patterson, a spokesman for Rocky Mountain National Park, just outside Denver.

      11-Year-Old Boy Dies After Mom Says GPS Left Them Stranded in Death Valley

      She told rescuers in California's San Bernardino County that her son Carlos died Wednesday, days after she fixed a flat tire and continued into Death Valley, relying on directions from a GPS device in the vehicle.

      Ignore the fact it's fox for the second article for now and think about how insane that second one is. Given how blindly people rely on tech, I'm amazed it doesn't happen more often.

      Yeah, knowing how to use gps and all that might be great when you're in a city, but if you're going to be roughing it you should carry the most simple of technologies (compasses, maps, etc) instead of things that use damned batteries or rely on signals to external technologies to function.

    7. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Pre GPS - that's when you look at the sun and the stars to estimate your direction.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    8. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've also found that GPS's don't always make smart navigation decisions; for example I don't believe that adding an additional 40% in distance for a theoretical 10% saving in time is actually smart driving, esp when that time saving is based on projected speed limits and doesn't deal to traffic, traffic lights, road works...

      That is so 80's . Nowadays we do. Just don't by the cheapass knockoff's
      (Working for the navigation device company)

    9. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well said!

      I've found the GPS invaluable for looking for new locations to shoot landscape images. I pick out a location on a paper map or Google Maps, use the GPS to get into the are, which could be anythign up a 150 mile drive, then when I have shot the location I went for I start using the GPS to see what else it about in the area road wise, especially if for example I spot another vantage point a few miles away from where I started.

      I once used my car GPS to rescue me when I got lost walking about in a 40 square mile forest and had to find my way back to my car in the dark!

      As you say it's just a tool to aid, it should never be a substitute for that keen pink squishy thing between your ears that has taken thousanads and thousands of years to evolve a good sense of direction.

    10. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Yeah, knowing how to use gps and all that might be great when you're in a city, but if you're going to be roughing it you should carry the most simple of technologies (compasses, maps, etc) instead of things that use damned batteries or rely on signals to external technologies to function.

      You should also attempt to maximise your chances of survival when the shit hits the fan. IMO that means both carrying appropriate communication technology and carrying enough of lifes essentials to get you through a walk back to civilisation.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    11. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do morons always worry about something? If someone does not know the place than it's an excellent opportunity to learn new things. But, as they are morons, learning new things in an uncontrolled environment is beyond their limited abilities. Also, because their main quality is being stupid they never take enough time to scout a new area. I mean, even if it's all new, the idiot will make a simple corelation between distance and the time it takes to travel the same, but around home.

      So back to square one. Why do idiots are so scarred of worrying? Because it might actually help them get out of their stupidity? In your case: why bother? You learn something new. You get something out of travelling. And with time you get to do everything a lot faster. And why do morons do need to make thing absolute? Not only that nobody is asking you to learn where everything is, but also, even if you were smarter you would be unable to learn about "everything".

      My advice: you're an idiot by choice. Dump the darn toy and become smarter.

    12. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      What I like about using google maps (or for that matter, streets and trips; I have a laptop that gets over four hours in real world use, and a USB GPS) is that you can chain together destinations.

      Unfortunately, google maps shit all over itself last time I produced a map with more than 20 destinations. Towards the end of the route it went entirely to hell and stopped providing me any useful information. So it's back to just writing down all the addresses (when yard sailing, it is possible to have so many at once in a single trip...) and just punching them into my Magellan Maestro.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Personally, I've found the regularly updated satellite images to be much more helpful than GPS. Typically I can find where I am the traditional way a lot faster than I can get a signal from GPS.

    14. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Again, as said before, if you're playing frontier john and tenting it then you're best with a map and compass. (with a GPS in your backpack as backup)

      If you're driving to new locations, you're fine with a GPS and the latest updated map.
      Just like you would a map, except it follows the map for you instead of your finger.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    15. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      I can so back you up on that one.
      I used a Tom Tom before, and that was horrific. I gave it to my brother, got a Garmin 1490T and it shaves lots of time off my trip dynamically. Whenever there's an accident/freeway gridlock/road construction, it routes around it nicely and I learn new quicker ways to get around without needing to research it.... on my way to work.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    16. Re:GPS creates two extremes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My grandfathrt bought a GPS right before he died. I was going to install it in his van and it ended up in my possession.

      From my experience, they are completely and utterly fucking useless. My city is set up on the grid system and modeled after Washington DC. It's incredibly easy to get around. The GPS will curve me way out, or tell me to turn around and go around the block a few times until I end up on the street i want, and coming from the direction that my GPS seems comfortable with. While all I have to do in meatspace is go straight down two or three roads.

      GPS on android is usually a little better, but every single cell phone drops GPS signals, so they are not reliable. I usually have a better idea of where I am than my cell phone does.

      I'm pretty young, and incredibly tech savvy. But The whole GPS thing just makes me think people are dumb. I can find my way on a paper map in the 30 seconds it takes you to type in your destination. If I even need the map. This goes for places I've never been before either. I've driven thousands of miles after looking at a map for a few minutes, and not even taking it with me in the car.

      It's a waste. You will be just fine on your own.

  4. It's making us too dependent on technology by HockeyPuck · · Score: 1

    Maps and street signs don't need batteries.

    1. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      i don't know about you, but if I tried to read a map while driving people would die and property would be damaged.

    2. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by couchslug · · Score: 1

      I keep paper maps (and a compass) but signs in South Carolina aren't much use.

      What I do find useful is printing Google Map Satellite view photos of my destination. I even do this for routine tasks like picking up junk cars. I don't bother using my GPS much.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    3. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by Mspangler · · Score: 1

      "Maps and street signs don't need batteries."

      Nor do compasses. One of next week's projects is to take my daughter out into the National Forest with a map and compass and teach her to navigate, or orienteer as they used to call it.

    4. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by Charcharodon · · Score: 2
      Those "street sign" thingies don't exist in an organized fashion in England and other European countries I've visited where the roads and the locals have been their 700+ years before you showed up who really never put much thought in the fact that most of their streets had no signs.

      Often I found myself driving around a village or town lost, unable to find the side street I was looking for only to find it on the way back out of town realizing it was on a wall or house that was only viewable from the street going in one direction.

      GPS elimintated alot of that nonsense.

    5. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      We ARE already dependent on technology. Maybe even too dependent. If you're worried about GPS removing our ability to navigate, I think you're worrying about the wrong problem.

      Most people around here could not even remotely survive without technology. And I'm not even talking about fancy things like electricity.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks to people like you, alots are on the verge of extinction!

    7. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Maps and street signs don't need batteries.

      And they don't need gasoline for driving the car.
      Neither do they need sails for boats.
      Or even wood only for the fire.

      Did I get your point well?

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    8. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      That's my experience from the US in general - as soon as you leave the main routes you are on your own and best guess to where the road you encounter goes. Maybe I'm spoiled since where I live in Sweden even two houses and a church is enough to have a sign naming the place.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    9. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Often I found myself driving around a village or town lost, unable to find the side street I was looking for only to find it on the way back out of town realizing it was on a wall or house that was only viewable from the street going in one direction.

      I've lived in the UK for thirty years, and I've encountered that about once.

    10. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      No, you didn't, not even remotely.

      Gasoline, sails, firewood. One of those is not like the others.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    11. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GPS is nice when there's no familiar or unique landmarks or no landmarks to speak of. For instance if you take a boat out on the ocean or a large enough lake, all you're going to see is water. If you didn't set anchor and are drifting, you'd better hope you're not too far from shore. If it's foggy or overcast, you'd better hope you have a compass. But even then, that doesn't give you your location - just a bearing you could use with reference from the last known position you remember. With GPS, at least you can set the waypoint back to the harbor you left from, have any hazards marked, and also have a pretty good idea where you're actually at. With GPS, getting stuck out on the water in fog is much less scary.

      Outside of that, GPS isn't really that important, and more of a crutch for the lazy. (Like hitting F3 in Minecraft. That stupid (fun) game has probably done for more to teach orienteering (if not cheating) to basement dwellers than actually camping outdoors.) Sun rises in east, sets in west, and ditto with stars and moon. Not hard to determine direction if it's not too overcast. (Or that you're too close to the Earth's poles - but that's a less likely case exception.) Once you memorize enough peculiar landmarks, all that evolution which has contributed to human memory should pay off. If you're in civilization, roads should be pretty well marked too. (Interstates and highways are usually much better about this than local roads though.)

      GPS does let you do other fun things like geocaching. Give a coordinate location and let somebody else figure out how to get there. But then again, that involves more of a unique hobby than typical usage.

    12. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      You could say the same about a person arguing against cars as transportation...

      Besides, GPS plug into the batteries of your car. If you lose that, you have larger problems.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    13. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Thanks to you, douche has competition.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    14. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      One was invented sooner?

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    15. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Car, boat, fire. Those are the things you are dependent on (with gasoline, sails firewood being one price you pay).

    16. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "One is not like the others" != "what do these have in common"

    17. Re:It's making us too dependent on technology by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
      Out in East Anglia that seemed to be a constant problem. Many of the signs were on the low walls that everyone had around their property, usually behind some bushes or weeds and only on one side of the street.

      Throw that in with the grand bulk of direction signs telling you where a road went to rather than which road you were actually on, (not really the same thing when 2-3 roads leading out of town can go to the same place eventually) made for some rather confusing trips at times.

      UK had some of the worse roads I've ever seen, but man they were fun tearing around on the them in my old BMW on an early morning. Narrow, twisty, and dangerous as hell, but an absolute blast!

  5. GPS kills by danbuter · · Score: 2

    At least a few people every year die because they go out into the boonies with a GPS and no map. The GPS puts them on some kind of goat trail, they get stuck, and then found a month later, dead.

    1. Re:GPS kills by cptdondo · · Score: 2

      Well, yes. I just went through this a couple of weeks ago on a hiking trip. We hiked on snowed-over unmarked trails. Without a GPS it would have been impossible. OTOH we had compasses and maps to back up the GPS and constantly referred back to the printed maps and got a bearing by compass so we knew at all times which way to bail if the GPS died.

      But the USFS was busy recovering people from the same area who went in with a GPS and no maps, and then got totally lost when the GPS died. From what I gathered, 2 rescues / day.... These were unhurt parties who lost their way. No business being out there in the first place.

    2. Re:GPS kills by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      Who finds them? I hope it's not the next bunch of travellers who followed their GPS...

    3. Re:GPS kills by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      people have been doing that long, long before GPS, or even the automobile.

    4. Re:GPS kills by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

      Well, yes. I just went through this a couple of weeks ago on a hiking trip. We hiked on snowed-over unmarked trails. Without a GPS it would have been impossible. OTOH we had compasses and maps to back up the GPS and constantly referred back to the printed maps and got a bearing by compass so we knew at all times which way to bail if the GPS died.

      But the USFS was busy recovering people from the same area who went in with a GPS and no maps, and then got totally lost when the GPS died. From what I gathered, 2 rescues / day.... These were unhurt parties who lost their way. No business being out there in the first place.

      Well, a backup GPS and extra certainly helps. :} But yes, you're absolutely right that being able to read a topo map and use a compass is invaluable if all else fails.

    5. Re:GPS kills by plover · · Score: 2

      Bullshit. Stupidity kills those people, not GPS.

      GPS shouldn't get the blame because someone was capable of buying a unit and following it to his doom. That's like blaming the gasoline in his tank for taking him to the middle of the desert.

      I am so fucking tired of people trotting out these stupid examples, and blaming the technology. Stupid people are always going to find novel ways to remove themselves from the gene pool. If you think they deserve any attention at all, then celebrate them -- read about them winning Darwin awards and have a laugh. Read about them in Fark (the Florida tag is good for lots of them.) Watch an episode of the Worlds Dumbest <blank>. But just as you don't blame the alligator for biting the guy teasing it with a fish, you don't blame the GPS for showing someone a road that doesn't have services on it. That's just amplifying the stupid with your own comments.

      --
      John
    6. Re:GPS kills by vux984 · · Score: 1

      At least a few people every year die because they go out into the boonies with a GPS and no map. The GPS puts them on some kind of goat trail, they get stuck, and then found a month later, dead.

      What would have been different if they had a map instead of or in addition to a gps? They still have seen the goat trail on it, still have gotten stuck, and still found a month later dead.

    7. Re:GPS kills by plover · · Score: 4, Funny

      One of my favorite scenes from the movie "Rat Race" was when Whoopi Goldberg followed Kathy Bates' instructions to the freeway without buying a squirrel from her. As they're plunging down the embankment to land in the pile of wrecked cars, they pass a series of hand-lettered signs:

      You
      Should
      Have
      Bought
      A
      Squirrel

      --
      John
    8. Re:GPS kills by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Absolute basics will save those with no maps or GPS. Walk downhill until you get to a stream. You now have water. Follow that downstream until you hit a road. Stand in the road until someone hits you or stops. I've never seen anywhere that would fail, short of rural Alaska where there are no roads and you would make it to th ocean with those directions, but locals manage to get lost and die in those conditions with great regularity.

    9. Re:GPS kills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds so simple. Just walk out. No problem. Why do we even have GPS? Just find your own way with basics.

    10. Re:GPS kills by nick0909 · · Score: 2

      From my experience working on a Search & Rescue team I must say someone having the knowledge of how to navigate with a map and compass is pretty rare. Congrats on always having a backup, that is what will save you. I have rescued people that were out on a million dollar snow cat with space-aged GPS and laptops with moving maps, it all turned in to a huge pile of useless crap when it slid sideways down a hill and got stuck against some logs. They had no backup, no other plan. Technology won't save you, knowledge and planning will. Oh, and I was a bit shocked at first... "recoveries" are for dead bodies, "rescues" are for live ones. I hope the USFS wasn't busy doing recoveries all day...

    11. Re:GPS kills by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      walk out doesn't work when people walk in because they don't have any clue where "out" is.

    12. Re:GPS kills by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Absolute basics will save those with no maps or GPS. Walk downhill until you get to a stream. You now have water. Follow that downstream until you hit a road.

      Afaict that will work in most places but it's not foolproof. You could end up at an impassable cliff, in a dry depression, at the enterance to a cave lost in fog etc.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    13. Re:GPS kills by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Honestly I'd say it's more of an issue of GPS makers. As part of the "on call" tote alone guys who goes to rescue people when the provincial police, or RCMP can't get to them ASAP, the bigger problem is just that. Those of us in the area know that if you're going down a cowpath, it's a cowpath. And it's sure not rated for a vehicle in the middle of the winter with 2m of snow on the ground. Summer? Well maybe, but it's probably better for a ATV or something similar.

      At least cell phones work if spotty, and CB's work more or less. But if GPS companies simply didn't grab X map, that lists every back path that's marked by surveyors, we'd probably have less of a problem. And I wouldn't have frozen my ass off this past winter, when it was -40C without the windchill, to find someone who got lost on a back path that's marked ATV/Snowmobile only with signs.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    14. Re:GPS kills by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Certainly not foolproof, but it would have worked every place I've seen a topo for (lots of Texas and Alaska, and northern New Mexico). You have to at least look at a map before going into the wilderness and you look for things like water that you'd need, and where the water would lead you. And then you'd adjust your failsafe plan if you saw some confound.

    15. Re:GPS kills by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Great general principle (in fact, that was one of my stupid-characters complaints about The Blair Witch Project), but you may end up on a finger of land needing to cross rapidly flowing (or cold) water before you get to a road.

    16. Re:GPS kills by cptdondo · · Score: 1

      Those direction swill work in places like the Smokies, not in places like Oregon. Depending on where you start and which way you're pointed, "downhill" can mean 30+ miles of rough, volcanic wilderness before you hit a road. And some of the roads are less than well traveled. If you don't have a map and compass, chances are you don't have food or gear to allow you to spend the night in sub-freezing weather.

    17. Re:GPS kills by cptdondo · · Score: 2

      Get the book "How to Stay Found" and practice it. My kids and I went out on a practice hike across broken backcountry (no trails, volcanic rock, very broken terrain with collapsed lava tubes, lots of obstacles.) My 13 year old daughter led us with a map and compass for 2 hours. My 10 year old son brought us back. At the end of 4 hours, we ended up about 100 yards from where we started.

      It's not brain surgery. But you have to have a clue and you have to practice.

      Sorry about the misuse of the words. "Rescues", not recoveries.

    18. Re:GPS kills by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Funny

      The GPS puts them on some kind of goat trail, they get stuck, and then found a month later, dead.

      Well, yes. I just went through this a couple of weeks ago on a hiking trip.

      I must say, you're looking rather well, all considered.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    19. Re:GPS kills by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Well said. I was driving one day along a route I know fairly well but used the GPS to see if there were alternate roads that would get me around one I don't particularly enjoy driving. As I approached the road it told me to turn onto, I saw that it was an unplowed fire route and this story being in the winter in Canada, I ignored my GPS' advice and kept going on the main road.

      People who turn left just because the machine told them to deserve what they get.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    20. Re:GPS kills by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      I was driving home from a client's once in central Canada, and had plotted a route on my map that took a town road across a river and back onto the highway that was much shorter. Half way down the town road, it began to narrow and would have become a bumpy rock-filled field with no bridge (I checked from the other side after turning around and going the other way after all).

      The map said there was a perfectly usable road there. Reality said there had been no such thing in quite some time.

      Maps are only better than GPS in that they don't require batteries. Brains are still required in both cases.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    21. Re:GPS kills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is good :o)

      What worries me is what women are REALLY saying when they say "men never ask directions". I thought there were blue pills for this.

      "one researcher at McGill has even been developing an exercise regimen to compensate for our supposedly atrophying navigational ability."

    22. Re:GPS kills by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      That my friend would bite you in the ass hard if you tried that where I live.
      I'm in Arizona... you better have a compass, or the ability to look at the sun and be able to tell AM/PM because otherwise you'll be hitting hills/valleys.

      Then again, if you were bright enough to bring a GPS and a charger, you're golden.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    23. Re:GPS kills by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      ... or walk into the dark, and you might be eaten by a grue.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    24. Re:GPS kills by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Plenty of people got lost in the days of topo map and compass too.
      Stupidity is sometimes fatal. Learn land nav skills or stay the fuck out of the boonies.

      It doesn't cost much of anything except your time.

      Map/compass/GPS is a fine combination. Printing satellite view pics of the area you are traversing is even better. There is no excuse for getting lost with all the old and new tech at your fingertips.

      You can download USGS topo maps and laminate them. You can download Google and Bing satellite views and laminate them. Compasses are cheap. GPS is reasonable, but USE IT IN CONJUNCTION WITH A PHYSICAL MAP.

      Here's an Army Field Manual for free download:
      www.uvm.edu/~goldbar/FM3_25.26.pdf

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  6. Discovery is easier when it's harder to get lost by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    To the contrary, GPS and live maps are an amazing tool for discovery. Not only can you see potentially interesting things around you, but you feel more at ease going to see them because you know it's easy enough to find your way back to the main path...

    That said, I wish makers of navigation software would make it easier to define many possible side paths you were interested in ahead of time.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  7. How will we discover? Shirley? YOU JEST! by Chas · · Score: 1

    Seriously. While I admit that discovering things for yourself can sometimes be really cool. In a lot of cases, you'll see that people discovering things tend to be in LOTS of trouble (Shackleton anyone?). Like breaking down in a one-horse town after the horse has been stabled for the night.

    On the flip side, I think the fact that you CAN find your way out of an area with GPS makes people more WILLING to go places they don't know.

    Paper maps KINDA filled this niche, but static route plans tend to not survive interruptions. If you come across a construction area on a highway somewhere and want to detour around, paper route plans leave you screwed. With GPS, it updates as your route changes.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  8. Business trips by Cimexus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well I don't usually use GPS much when I'm on holiday, or when I'm in my home country, since I know most of it pretty well after 30 years. But for me the biggest benefit of ubiquitous GPS (first on separate GPS devices, then on phones) is on BUSINESS trips.

    The boss sends you to some random city/country you've never been to before. You land there at 8pm and the taxi takes you to a hotel somewhere. You have a meeting first thing tomorrow morning - how far away is the place you're going? Walking distance or will I need to get a taxi? Is there a train line near the hotel?

    I'm feeling a bit hungry, I wonder if there's a convenience store nearby where I can buy a snack. It's 11pm, most things are shut and I'm in a strange city. I could wander around aimlessly until I find something or I could type in "7/11" or whatever on my phone and see all the nearby locations on the map in relation to me.

    Even more importantly: argh - I'm out of cash, and this stupid shop doesn't accept card payments under . Where's the nearest ATM in this bloody city? Previously, a pain in the ass. Now, no problem at all.

    Basically having GPS in my pocket at all times has made my business trips far less stressful!

    1. Re:Business trips by mcrbids · · Score: 2

      Basically having GPS in my pocket at all times has made my business trips far less stressful!

      For me, it's ALL kinds of trips! Even towns I kinda know are more pleasant when I can just get to the nearest bank branch, grocery store, fast food joint, hotel, or whatever. It lets me get the inane stuff out of the way without worry, so I have more time and physical/mental energy to enjoy the experience itself.

      Also, a drive is much more pleasant when I can queue up an impromptu TED talk or stream something I actually like when I'm stuck in country-music-and-spanish-only radio station territory on a long drive.

      And then, when I get a nice shot next to the Bay or under the airplane wing, I can instantly share it with my family and friends. This, too is often a nice way to enjoy the experience even further.

      My Android smart phone/GPS isn't just nice, it's a game-changer.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    2. Re:Business trips by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      Your forgetting the most beneficial search of all, where the closest hookers are at! Screw the rest of the stuff, business time is hooker time!

    3. Re:Business trips by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      I don't want to dispute anything you said. I basically agree. For the youngest Slashdot readers who can't imagine how we solved all these problems before Google, the answer is that we were forced to ask real people face to face questions. It's funny how this is not really considered as a socially thinkable option anymore - like it's low-class to ask a person instead of your smarphone.

    4. Re:Business trips by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Oh man my lady and I saw the most hilarious low-grade pimp and hos on the way down to Santa Cruz yesterday... big 90s red land yacht with a sticker on that says I HEART VAGINA and riding like there's four bodies in the trunk. Scraggly old guy looking like he's seen a little too much meth. Two young sluts dressed in very little who get out of the car and flounce off to some office building next to Santa Rosa aleworks. Craggy old guy stays with his shitty convertible sedan.

      I HEART VAGINA. CLASSY.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Business trips by Cimexus · · Score: 1

      A fair point, but if your boss dumps you in some random hotel in the outer suburbs of Seoul for a 3 day business trip and you don't speak a word of Korean, the phone often gets better results.

    6. Re:Business trips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't take 'getting lost' negatively your viewpoint might be different. I have discovered a lot of interesting things stumbling around (while on pleasure) trying to find my way.
      I like my leisure time to be as diametrically opposed to work as possible, and that includes efficiency and urgency.

    7. Re:Business trips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, you could exercise human interaction and ASK concierge for directions on a map, ASK a local where the local convenience store and ATM are, etc...

      I agree on the using GPS to find your way to client sites first thing in the morning though. Most GPS users just blindly follow the "turn left in 200m instructions" and don't pay any attention to bearings or learn the area.

      I do this myself, unless I need to drive there multiple times, then I pay always google map it to get my bearings. The old way of tracing your route on a street directory gives you a much better idea of bearings of the local surrounds.

    8. Re:Business trips by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      This depends.. is it north or south Korea? ;)

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    9. Re:Business trips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never gotten good advice from asking people for about restaurants. Directions is about 50/50. Google Maps rarely ever causes me a problem and online restaurant tips are impressively useful. I'm glad the days of asking some pimple faced kid where to eat are over.

  9. Rogaining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doing a bit of rogaining was he best thing I ever did to improve my ability to navigate. "Rogaining" is also the name of a classic book on how to navigate off the landscape, observing things like the lie of the land, how it fits together and the keeping in mind that the global landscape must be consistent with what you observe locally as you pass through the landscape.

    1. Re:Rogaining by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

      Doing a bit of rogaining was he best thing I ever did to improve my ability to navigate.

      So how does growing hair help? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogain :}}

    2. Re:Rogaining by jamesh · · Score: 2

      Doing a bit of rogaining was he best thing I ever did to improve my ability to navigate.

      So how does growing hair help? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogain :}}

      It keeps the head warmer and working at optimum temperature, obviously.

  10. How does it affect me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I boldly go where I haven't been before, but I have learned my lesson of not at least looking over the route the old fashion way after a GPS unit sent me off into the hills in Ireland looking for a bed and breakfast. Instead it took me to a cell tower about 20 miles away which was technically on the same road.

    I move often being in the military and go even more places for temporary duty, the first week or so I'm pretty dependent on the GPS, each week after that I use it less and less. By the time the first month has gone by I'm down to simply using it to tell me the names of the cross streets before I get to them or being able to tell at a glance if a side street goes through to another main road.

    By the end of the year I just use to tell my ETA in order to find more efficient routes or when I need to call and tell work I'm going to be late when stuck in traffic.

    As far as using it out in the middle of no where I use it more to tell where I am rather than where I am going, or for back tracking, usually the maps for your typical car GPS are incomplete when out in the wilderness and aren't much use.

  11. Re:Durr by jhoegl · · Score: 1

    We must GPS space!

  12. Re:How will we discover? Shirley? YOU JEST! by _4rp4n3t · · Score: 1

    breaking down in a one-horse town after the horse has been stabled for the night

    I read this as breaking down in a one-horse town after the horse has been stabbed for the night, which probably says a lot about some of the one-horse towns in I've seen in Scotland.

  13. There ARE places by Psychotria · · Score: 2

    There still are places, believe it or not, in the world where humans have never (or very rarely) trodden. Even in those places where humans have trodden, there are many that are poorly documented, explored, or studied. I don't think that GPS changes us very much at all. The majority of people still stay at home or close to areas that they know. There are people who rely on GPS to tell them where to go, and what streets to follow. Then there are other people, probably a minority, who go where they need to go to find out something interesting, or research something where there probably aren't any streets; in those cases GPS coordinates are merely extra metadata. I, personally, don't care about the people in cities who need a GPS to find a post office or whatever. For those people doing real work, a GPS is merely a more accurate and modern system of identifying (and recording) coordinates of interesting things.

    1. Re:There ARE places by Psychotria · · Score: 1

      I'd like to add to my comment above that if there are people out there who think the world is "GPSified" then they have lost their sense of wonder.

    2. Re:There ARE places by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I've been to those places -- places where not even ancient humans had been (north of 80 degrees in parts of the Canadian Arctic). There a GPS is VERY VERY useful. For one thing, the maps are poor (1:250000 scale is best you can usually hope for) and one river or mountain peak can look very much like another even to a discerning eye. For another, a standard magnetic compass is useless because you are too close to the magnetic pole -- the needle gets dragged down because of the steep inclination. And if there is poor visibility (fog), you are truly hosed when it comes to finding directions. In those situations a GPS is not merely a convenience. It can save your life.

      Having said that, I've never used a GPS when wandering around a foreign city. It's much more fun to wander, and I've never had a problem finding my way back to where I started with so many landmarks available, although it does get a little more tricky if the sun isn't visible to help with orientation.

      There are always going to be two extremes of people when it comes to navigation: 1) those people who use navigational tools such as compasses and GPS to augment their already-decent navigational abilities, and 2) people who can manage to get lost and/or make nonsensical decisions even with such tools available. For the latter people, GPS is a crutch that doesn't solve the underlying problem that some people have very poorly developed spatial skills. It's why my spouse trusts me to do the navigation, although we sometimes have fun on vacation by letting her navigate (usually badly) and me find our way back.

    3. Re:There ARE places by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding.

      And don't believe earlier poster about the world being mapped.

      Canada has some of the best maps in the world. But:

      1. On several occasions deadly waterfalls have NOT been marked on the map, and similarly marked falls turned out to not be there.
      2. Islands missing, or conversely on two different maps.
      3. Locations of cliffs and other vertical features being out of position by upwards of 150 meters.
      4. Errors in referencing them map to the geoid.

      Don't get me wrong. I love my GPS. But it does not make the entire world known, and it doesn't replace either common sense or a map and compass.

  14. anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Me and my friend are in the car, just got out of Target. We type in Staples on the GPS to look for it. *BEEP* 0.1 miles. The Staples was the building adjacent to Target. X(

  15. Re:Durr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We must GPS space!

    Wouldn't that make it UPS - Universal Positioning System?

  16. The world seems smaller now. by crovira · · Score: 1

    Its a lot harder to be ignorant of the world and of your place in it when you can find just about anything, anywhere, anytime.

    The religious leaders don't like an informed populace.

    They just want them to memorize the Bible/Qran/Torah and do as they're told.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
    1. Re:The world seems smaller now. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      The religious leaders don't like an informed populace.

      The Jesuits would like a word with you.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:The world seems smaller now. by crovira · · Score: 1

      The religious leaders don't like an informed populace.

      The Jesuits would like a word with you.

      My last kick at the education can was in 2007 at St. Peter's College: a Jesuit college. :-)

      --
      MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  17. Dead Reckoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm afraid that long term GPS usage would lead to a loss or lessening of my natural DR abilities.

  18. Re:How will we discover? Shirley? YOU JEST! by danbeck · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure I'm GOING to get marked as a troll, but I found it ODD that you used caps a lot to emphasize your sentences. Do you realize how MUCH you actually do this?

  19. Duh, indeed by macraig · · Score: 1

    [Title asks:] "How Does GPS Change Us?"

    Dependency, stupid.

    Timothy is likely no more "aware of location" now when he isn't tethered to a satellite than when those satellites never existed at all. The technology hasn't really changed him at all, he's just dependent upon it.

  20. An example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An example is the Wollemi. Adjacent to a city of 4.5 million people, yet it is so isolated that in 1994 a 40 metre high species of tree was found there, that had only even been seen in fossil records.

  21. GPS Doesn't Solve Any Problems by rocketPack · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to have to ask someone where the nearest this or that could be found. I used to have to ask how to get from A to B. Local landmarks used to be paramount in navigation and route finding. Now we can haplessly ignore the locals and find our own way straight to the restaurant we chose based on Yelp reviews. Word of mouth is not very useful anymore, at least not in the traditional sense. What I'm getting at, is that smaller cities/towns lose control of their identity. It's the internet that decides which restaurants and hotels are the best, and how to get around town. I'm not trying to commend on whether or not this is better or worse, but it's hard to find one piece of technology which has contributed so much to this trend.

    GPS has removed the need to "memorize" local street patterns or common routes. Why bother to remember how to get to your favorite vacation spot when GPS will "always" be there to guide you? (Again, this is stripping local landmarks of their significance)

    In another sense, GPS (GNSS for those of you modern enough to embrace foreign constellations) has really complicated the idea of "location." The instability of consumer-grade GPSr observations and the steep price curve for more accurate instruments has created a rather cluttered mess. Everyone seems to think that their coordinates are better than the other guy. I'm in the land surveying/geomatics field, and even at that level GPS is rarely brought up in legal disputes because it's just not an acceptable replacement for good old fashioned direct measurements (or acceptable substitutions, like EDMs).

    In my opinion, GPS/GNSS has not solved *any* issues in the civilian world. It has (over)simplified and depersonalized navigation (non GNSS alternatives exist and have worked wonderfully for centuries), created clutter and confusion, and in conjunction with the internet helped to strip local societies of their identity.

    1. Re:GPS Doesn't Solve Any Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Local landmarks, like where Hank's auto shop used to be before it closed down, you can't miss it.

    2. Re:GPS Doesn't Solve Any Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then turn right three miles before the concrete factory complex.

    3. Re:GPS Doesn't Solve Any Problems by hackertourist · · Score: 1

      You contradict yourself.

      I used to have to ask someone where the nearest this or that could be found.

      To me (and many others), the need to ask for directions (and then interpret ambiguous or incorrect directions), or laboriously plot a route and write down directions that are readable while driving WAS a problem.

      GPS has taken the stress out of driving in unfamiliar areas, and that's a good thing. On my last vacation trip without GPS, I spent hours divining where to go from incomplete and/or incorrect directions, hours that contributed nothing in the way of enjoyment or adventure. Just frustration.

      In my opinion, GPS/GNSS has not solved *any* issues in the civilian world. It has (over)simplified and depersonalized navigation

      Are you enjoying your ivory tower? I can't believe you're advocating the idea that navigation should be difficult.

    4. Re:GPS Doesn't Solve Any Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you don't know your subject very well. GPS can be used for geodetic grade survey work, think plate tectonics and and stuff that moves slower than your fingernails grow. Go pick up a copy of JGR solid Earth or GRL and flip through some of the papers.

    5. Re:GPS Doesn't Solve Any Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I welcome a society where meaningless personal interactions (asking for directions, grocery store checkout lines, buying gas) are minimized. That way I have more time and energy to focus on real interactions with people I know and care about (or meeting new people to get to know and care about).

      Also, GPS units and their insistent, synthesized voices are annoying to use. Anyone I have ever driven with would rather rely on human knowledge than have to deal with a GPS. (However, when there is nobody in the car who knows the route, a GPS is worth its weight in gold.) My point being that people aren't going to start relying on their GPS for common, day-to-day trips if they can avoid it.

      Finally, there is plenty of character in Manhattan, NY, which is extremely grid-based. If your location's character is primarily dependent upon a quirky road system, then your location doesn't really have much character to begin with.

  22. Maybe, but exploration was already dead by michaelmalak · · Score: 1

    The GPS may have hurt exploration, but it was already put on life support by by the cell phone (which greatly reduces the danger associated with exploration) and Flickr & YouTube & Street View. With physical exploration dead, youth now instead explore societal bounds (to the detriment of society).

  23. OK, but LightSquared: (GPS units subject to RFI) by neurocutie · · Score: 1

    Many GPS units do not have adequate filtering against RF interference from adjacent spectrum. LightSquared owns 1500Mhz spectrum that it wants to use for terrestial LTE networks. Currently it interferes with GPS, but it is really the GPS's industry's fault, not LightSquared. The implication is that we may have to re-buy much of the GPS units we now own, because current units will be worthless when LTE turns on their LTE network. The FCC is trying to figure out how to solve this problem, but it seems inescapable that at least partial blame is with the GPS industry.

    http://www.lightsquared.com/press-room/press-releases/gps-industrys-failure-to-comply-with-department-of-defense/

    In short, LightSquared claims that the GPS industry is ignoring the Department of Defense's recommended filtering standards, as well as ignoring the International Telecommunications Union's international standard for GPS receivers and transmitters. According to the DoD recommendations, GPS systems are supposed to employ filters to make sure GPS signals don't interfere with adjacent spectrum. The ITU's standard calls for a 4MHz guard band between GPS and the nearest spectrum.

    The GPS industry has a responsibility to use its licensed spectrum in accordance with international and federal government standards – not for LightSquared’s sake, but for the sake of the American people who own the public airwaves and who fund the GPS satellite system.

    "The GPS industry benefits from an estimated $18 billion taxpayer subsidy to offer a commercial service that is completely dependent on a government satellite system. Despite the federal handout, they have deliberately ignored Defense Department criteria for using the restricted system,” Carlisle said. “LightSquared remains committed to working in partnership with responsible members of the GPS industry and for the benefit of the public by creating good-paying jobs and economic opportunity at a time when America desperately needs both.”

  24. Video games had already changed our thinking by javakah · · Score: 2

    A few points:

    Q. How do we discover the 'new'?
    A: We are more likely to discover the new BECAUSE of GPS. Without GPS you are much more likely to stick with major routes to your destination. With our (perhaps over-) confidence in the guidance of GPS, we are more prone to take out of the way routes as suggested by the GPS. This is how we can discover the 'new'. Additionally with confidence in GPS, I know that I am a lot more willing to try to even go to new places that I haven't been before. I can tell you from personal experience that just going with printed Mapquest directions and a map or two does not lead to marital bliss and made me not want to go to new places nearly as much. It's far better going to new places now that we have GPS.

    Q. Is it damaging our navigational ability?
    A: Does the use of a compass also damage our navigational ability? You could argue that the GPS in fact can help our navigational ability by showing us how distorted our own viewpoint can be. You find the same thing though with a compass.

    Q. Is it changing how we think about travel and explorations?
    They point to the need for more multi-tasking skills, etc. This may be a change for Baby Boomers, but I would argue that it's actually moving navigation into sync for the younger generation. We are used to multi-tasking. Additionally, when I first got a GPS, it felt EXTREMELY comfortable. Suspiciously so. Then I realized that it was a real-life mini-map! I was tremendously used to navigating in less familiar (albeit virtual) environs with the help of a minimap, while keeping most of my attention on the new environs, after all, if I didn't pay attention to where I was going in the world before, I could run into some nasty dragon, etc. The younger generation is already thinking about travel and exploration in the way that GPS pushes us, due to video games.

    1. Re:Video games had already changed our thinking by Shuntros · · Score: 1

      Try aviation GPS, that's a whole new level of comfortable. Instead of correlating the information presented to you by a bunch of different gauges tuned to 60yr old radio beacons you just follow the pink line. Need to land at an airport in thick fog? No problem; switch on approach mode and simply fly through the boxes displayed on the screen, or enable synthetic vision mode and you essentially get a video-game recreation of the terrain, runway, everything.. just not the fog.

      Another poster was right, GPS is just a bunch of clocks sending out pulses whose transit times you compare to establish location, but the quality of applications designed around it is simply stunning. One of the best inventions of the 20th century in my opinion.

    2. Re:Video games had already changed our thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A few points:

      Q. How do we discover the 'new'?

      In a rental car in South Carolina we were vaguely aware of something called the 'Angel Oak' (said to be the oldest living thing in the USA east of the Mississippi). I typed 'Angel Oak' into a borrowed GPS.

      It led us right there.

      GPS is the game-changer, here.

      AC

  25. true. when i was in somalia by decora · · Score: 0

    i was starving to death because of the worst drought in sevral decades, a government that doesnt exist, etc etc.

    thank goodness i had GPS. i was able to mark exactly where i died, so that i will not become a ghost, wandering the desert - someone in my clan will find me and give me a proper burial.

  26. GPS does not equal mapping. by Whatsisname · · Score: 2

    From the summary:

    My own experience is that GPS has made me much more aware of location, by showing me the bird's-eye view, and letting me instantly compare alternate routes.

    You apparently don't know what GPS actually is, because GPS has nothing to do with bird-eye views nor comparing alternate routes. All GPS does is tell you the time and where on the planet you are.

    Routing and mapping are not exclusive to GPS.

    1. Re:GPS does not equal mapping. by nick0909 · · Score: 1

      I get a kick out of showing people the GPS I use for hiking/snowmobiling. It shows my coordinates, and lets me point an arrow towards other coordinates. No maps, no trails, no color, just on 1 inch screen. The battery lasts forever, its waterproof, totally reliable. But people see it and say "ewwww how do you know where you are?" I don't need a big color picture, but most people do I guess, and that is "GPS" for the rest of the world.

    2. Re:GPS does not equal mapping. by adolf · · Score: 1

      I assume by "people" you mean folks who aren't also hikers/snowmobilers.

      Half of the fun of hiking is paying attention to surroundings and finding a different/more interesting/faster path from A to B. And for that, an arrow pointing the way might even be ideal over a map or a chart.

      I don't do much hiking, so I have no use for standalone basic GPS+compass gear which has long battery life. But I do the same thing in the car, sometimes, with the Droid: Set a waypoint with [random GPS app], and go there -- no map needed.

      It's not typically an efficient way to navigate in car, but that's OK: I occasionally burn up a day or two at a time driving just for fun, and this adds to my enjoyment. (Though using dead reckoning on a cloudy day to reach a distant point is fun, too.)

    3. Re:GPS does not equal mapping. by crutchy · · Score: 1

      if you want to get really technical, gps is just a signal from a satellite constellation, which on its own it doesn't tell you shit, but you are right that gps isn't limited to mapping and routing. i've worked with rs232 gps receivers and developed software that interprets the realtime data differently to conventional gps units; to figure out the takeoff and landing speeds of aircraft.

    4. Re:GPS does not equal mapping. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And without GPS all that mapping wouldn't automatically show you where you are and what your suroundings are. That which you quoted as being wrong is actually right. You're just a sour old git who wants to pick some nits.

    5. Re:GPS does not equal mapping. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GPS means satellite navigation in the US. Just add it to the "could care less", "lookit" and "turned 360" unedumacated nonsense that many Americans use.

    6. Re:GPS does not equal mapping. by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      You apparently don't know what GPS actually is, because GPS has nothing to do with bird-eye views nor comparing alternate routes. All GPS does is tell you the time and where on the planet you are.

      Routing and mapping are not exclusive to GPS.

      It's pretty obvious in context that "GPS" here means "a GPS receiver for automotive navigation". It's kind of a layman's shorthand and is in fact a very common usage of the term. For instance, go to Amazon and type "GPS" in the search box. Something tells me that when someone asks: "Can I borrow your pen?" you reply: "I don't know, can you?"

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    7. Re:GPS does not equal mapping. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh God, thanks. This whole story is unbelievably painful.
      Furthermore, in my part of the world, there's lots to discover, as the maps were interpreted from1:30,000 scale air photos, but never visited.

    8. Re:GPS does not equal mapping. by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Well, if you want to get all purist and shitty about it, it's simply a technology that has signals being recieved by satellites, which are triangulated in order to figure the coordinates on the landmass.

      However, the most consumer tools using the technology do the birds-eye view (or 3D driving view), and let you instant compare alternate routes. Yes, there are some that simply show the coordinates, however those are not the mainstream.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  27. Great for Cycling by wrook · · Score: 1

    About 5 years ago I ditched my car and replaced it with a bicycle. What hit me pretty quickly (especially since I wasn't in great shape) was that I didn't want to ride around for hours on end finding things. In a car, if you make a mistake or simply want to try a new route somewhere, going an extra couple of km is nothing. On the bike it was frustrating, tiring and at the end of it I was always worried if I would remember how to get home again (without adding an extra 5 km to my trip). The GPS made a huge difference to me and enabled me to get a better handle on if the distance was too far, etc, etc. I remember always jumping through hoops to take buses to the train station and one day I punched it into the GPS and realised that it was only 20K. After that I never took the bus again.

    On the down side, the GPS always gives me the shortest route to my goal. As I live near mountains, this translates to always giving me the steepest route to my goal. It took me a while to jam that into my head. It would be nice if the GPS had a feature to avoid gradients of over 7% or so...

    1. Re:Great for Cycling by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      About 5 years ago I ditched my car and replaced it with a bicycle. What hit me pretty quickly (especially since I wasn't in great shape) was that I didn't want to ride around for hours on end finding things.

      I tried that last year. What hit me pretty quickly was another car.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    2. Re:Great for Cycling by emaveneau · · Score: 1

      I don't know of any units which plan routes based upon gradients, but some units offer 3d first person views and when using normal 2d map layout the elevations are shaded (if you have elevation data in your maps). So you plan a route yourself while scrolling around.

      Yeah they are amazing for cycling. I've found bike stores in the middle of nowhere (some guys garage) when I really needed them (once in Quebec with a broken chain, and once in New Brunswick with a slashed tire which was patched but wouldn't hold for a full day).

      It's also a lot less likely to miss turns, but when it happens, you can find out if continuing on will be okay or if you have to turn back.

      It also takes a lot less time than handling paper based turn by turn directions, and it allows you to improvise so if a road surface is great you can stay on it and not worry since with a GPS device you will know if you're going parallel to the original route or not. e.g. On this recent trip I shaved off a lot of distance near the beginning v.s. this previous route (speed data in the last link is junk/a bug).

    3. Re:Great for Cycling by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      That's not a good thing, I'm sure since you followed all the rules of the road the person who hit you should be disciplined by the enforcement officers in the proper way.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    4. Re:Great for Cycling by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      That's not a good thing, I'm sure since you followed all the rules of the road the person who hit you should be disciplined by the enforcement officers in the proper way.

      I couldn't tell you if I followed them or not. I really can't -- no memory of the actual incident. But a witness said that the other guy's light was red.

      I should ask my attorney if the he got any citations.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
  28. GPS for me means super powers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, when I finally broke down and purchased a GPS I felt like I'd developed a sixth sense overnight.
    "When I clear this curve, there will be a road to the left. It is 'Spence Lane'. I know this even though the sign is long gone."
    "There is a large body of water on the other side of those trees."
    "It looks as if I'm in the middle of nowhere but I know that there is a small town within walking distance to the East."
    And so on, and so on...

  29. GPS changing us? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GPS can't change those who don't use it -- and I expect there are a lot more who don't than do. Sounds like something to worry about later, if at all...

    1. Re:GPS changing us? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > GPS can't change those who don't use it -- and I expect there are a lot more who don't than do. Sounds like something to worry about later, if at all...

      I don't use GPS and don't plan to. These days I look at Google Maps on the iPhone, and it is "good enough." There is nothing to worry about because I have basic map skills.
      i.e.
      I used to do deliveries in Greater Vancouver to help pay for my university education. I never got lost. I had one of those big honkin map books, _read_ the map book, and planned my to-from route BEFORE I set off. These days people have become so dependent on technology that they can't even manage basic skills of *gasp* reading a map, figuring out where they are, and what direction they need to head to get to their destination.

  30. My experience on exploration by tanveer1979 · · Score: 2

    I use GPS quite heavily, but most of my usage is moving map apps, which do not try to route for me. They show me a map, where I am, and where I am headed, Its upto me to chose the route and explore.
    Now maybe 5 years ago, when I did not have any GPS, I would have never dared to explore a 200km long salt flat.
    But today, I can leave the main road, drive in the flat laying down my GPS track. If I am unable to find an exit point, all I do is retrace my track.

    I has also helped me explore some high altitude himalayan deserts. No roads are marked, just a black space showing me my "track". By looking at the compass, and having a town on the other end as my "destination" I can plan my route by hit and trial.

    For example, I recently went to a lake system called Kyun Tso in the himalayas.
    As I left the last village, the track bifurcated into multiples. I took the vehicle up the wrong track and ended up on a 4700m high flat plain.
    But no panic, we took some pics, admired the view, and then followed our track back to the fork, and then took the other one.

    So we could actually "explore" without fear of getting lose 5000m above sea level.
    Considering, some locals do this once a week or even less, if you get lost up there, help can be days away.

    But GPS allows you the freedom to be an explorer.

    I quickly have mapped all that on openstreetmap, and future offroaders can follow my tracks easily.

    Then there is the dark side.
    When I am in US, I am tempted to let the navigation app to do my routing, and often I end up on roads I do not want to be on. For example, a freeway 20kms long can be cut short by a 5km path within the town, the app chooses that, and I end up spending 1 hour in traffic jams.
    So yes, its good, and bad.

    Last but not the least, there was a story some time back "Death by GPS".
    This is what you get for blindly trusting your navigation app.

    So best way is to use your GPS as an informer, or a walking stick, not as your crutch.

    --
    My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
    FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
  31. From the other side of the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The other side is "how does it NEED to change everyone else?" That is still a huge issue that affects third world countries: there is an absolute lack of a "map culture". Guess how that affects people who do have GPS...

    Google Earth / maps has taken a very long time to start actually showing street data to lay over the sat photos; I'm sure it's not for the lack of trying.

  32. As a man... by stretch0611 · · Score: 2

    Thanks to GPS, I truly don't need to ask directions...

    --
    Looking for a job?
    Want your resume written professionally?
    DON'T USE TUNAREZ!!!
  33. Weapons by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    It makes bombs, missiles and artillery very, very accurate.

  34. Re:Durr by buchner.johannes · · Score: 2

    We must GPS space!

    If only we had satellites there, then we might be able to triangulate just like on earth!

    --
    NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
  35. Why do you even need it? by deathtopaulw · · Score: 1

    There is nothing worse than seeing another drooling, gps-addled half-wit darting back over the danger zone of an exit and nearly causing an accident. I honestly think they should be banned completely. I've found that merely studying my google maps for any destination and having a basic concept of direction (all of 5 minutes of work) are far more useful. And since one more megabyte of your internal brain-ram is now free from glancing nervously at the little glowing rectangle stuck to your windshield, you are more free to actually notice that hole-in-the-wall Indian place you wanted to try.

    1. Re:Why do you even need it? by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Did you happen to think it might not be because of the GPS but because of the cell phone attached to said person's head?

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  36. Warrant singer Jani Lane found dead. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He helped usher in GPS with such chart hits as "Down Boys" and "Cherry Pie". These hits established GPS as a force on the rock'n'roll map.

  37. Definitely by broothal · · Score: 1

    I got my first GPS more than a decade ago - primarily for geocaching. I got TomTom Navigator in 2002. Has it changed me? I reckon so. My sense of directions has definitely faded. I rely quite heavily on a device to tell me where to go, and I simply do not waste any braincycles on the road to the destination.

    Like on of the above posters, the biggest benefit for me is business trips. Before phones had built in GPS I had a small Dell PDA with built in GPS solely for business trips.

    Also, I remember getting lost in China. Since the map I had was written in Western style, I couldn't even ask for guidance to a named street, because it was called something else in Chinese. Now GPS is the most important accessory when traveling.

    1. Re:Definitely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got an ipaq and a bluetooth gps brick, and did the same thing years ago. Quite honestly, the coolest feature I've ever seen is the map on my BB pearl. It actually told you what cross street you were coming up on, in nice, big letters. I'd give anything to have that again, obviously our city doesn't feel that having street signs is at all important, which sucks if you're delivering pizza, or saving lives, or anywhere in between.

    2. Re:Definitely by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      You could put down $99 for a decent GPS and have that...

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  38. Nobody knows where anything is by jbrodkin · · Score: 1

    My own experience is that on those rare occasions when I need to ask someone directions, no one has any idea where anything is, even if they live or work in the area I am lost in. I'm not sure whether to blame GPS, or general human stupidity. Luckily, my phone GPS usually works.

    1. Re:Nobody knows where anything is by c0nner · · Score: 1

      Even if they know where things are too many people can't give good directions.

      My dad is a volunteer firefighter in rural Pennsylvania. They would get calls to go to the Smith residence and when someone would look for clarification it would be something like take Falls Road until you get to the old Kent farm then turn left. But the Kent's likely haven't lived there in 10 years and the barn is gone so unless you already know the area to some degree you will not be able to follow the directions.

      Navigating by landmark works if you have a common understanding of the landmarks. Most people don't know the names of the streets that are more than 1 turn removed from the one they live on. I moved into a new neighborhood and started by looking at the map and trying to memorize the streets so that I would know where people lived when they introduced themselves and said where they lived. I learned after telling people the street I lived on that people had no idea. But when I said I live near the mailboxes at the next road past the house with the pink truck they knew where I was talking about.

    2. Re:Nobody knows where anything is by jbrodkin · · Score: 1

      One time I was driving from my apartment to the gym and there was a major detour because of a parade, with no obvious way around it. I stopped and asked the police offer how to get where I was going and he says in the most condescending way possible: "How long have you lived in [city I lived in at the time]?" I lied and said a few months, and he proceeds to attempt to give me directions around the detour. And he eventually gives up because he doesn't know the way or the names of any streets.

  39. Discovery isn't dead... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I discover things everyday. Things that people next to me don't even notice. In the middle of the city, or on some country road, doesn't matter. You just have to look for it. Asking a piece of plastic where things are just isn't the way to do things. Also, if you need a GPS to get around your own town, then please, do us all a favor, and don't. Even my dog knows his way around the place where he lives.

    1. Re:Discovery isn't dead... by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      Gps to get around your own town , it depends a lot on the town, when it is a grid system like many american cities it is fairly easy (milton keynes in the uk is an exception , it has near identical roads and junctions which make it pretty difficult to identify where you are, no landmarks as such) but i doubt there are many people who know every area of their town or city if it is of any size.

      Sure most people should know their local area, the city centre and some of the nearest shopping centres and the main routes between different areas but total familiarity i doubt it. going to a new location you should be able to ignore the gps until you are in the approximate area, I figured most people do that.

      London is a funny one because of the underground you may be familiar with many area's and not have much of a clue how to use the roads to get between tube stops.

  40. Re:Durr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another gay ass fluff piece.

    GPS might be useful. Oh noes!

  41. Re:My experience on exploration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have trekked and droven in higher himalayas all my life. Got lost many times , some times almost faced death . Trust me what you describe above has nothing to do with exploration. The elements are not same and feeling is different when you have a safety net....All GPS is doing is enabling people like you who actually dont deserve to be at those places, leaving heaps of garbage in otherwise untouched lands.

  42. Re:How will we discover? Shirley? YOU JEST! by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
    breaking down in a one-horse town after the horse has been stabled for the night

    I am in London: I read that as "after the horse has been stabbed for the night".

    This topic shows GPS is quite different in Europe compared to USA, partly because the roads are different. The majority of journeys I do, I known reasonably well. I use the GPS because, if there is a problem, I want to be able to turn off, and rely on the GPS to take me through back roads. It usually predicts very good routes, and when they are not the best, its often for a good reason. I had one that could handle the traffic so well that 3 hour journeys through central London were done in an hour using empty side streets.

    Of course I don't do everything it says: my first one tried to send me down a flight of stairs in Cornwall!

    I find it very interesting to look at features either side of me, and use the GPS to find out what they are.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  43. Yeah, I seen it by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    I live in China, and one of my favorite pastimes in my town was to ride my electric moped around and discover new places. Who knows where the road leads? What, I got lost? Big deal, it just helps to get to know the city. After a while, I got a reputation as the guy to ask when someone needed to know where something was.

    About a year ago, a new arrival in town showed me her iPhone. It had integrated GPS with Google Maps, in English even. All the shops were there, even the small ones. I saw a place I wanted to go, and asked her how to get there. She said she had no idea, she just popped up a window with the address in Chinese and showed it to the taxi. Getting around town by bike was a foreign idea to her. She also showed me her Chinese food menu (bilingual with photos) and her voice activated translation program (just speak and it translates to Chinese). I said, "Wow, with this you don't need to know anything or speak Chinese at all." She said, "Yeah, isn't it great!" I just sighed.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  44. does gps erode your sense of direction? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i don't use gps, but if i get lost i sorta usually know which direction i need to go.

    for those that use gps a lot, do you find yourself completely lost without it or you you retain that sense of which way you should go?

    what happens when your gps contradicts your sense of direction? which one do you trust more?

    1. Re:does gps erode your sense of direction? by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      It's a tool alone... I've had a GPS since 1998, and really it's just a tool to me.
      I've travelled across the United States about 4-5 times with GPS and have changed my course quite often along the way. It's a map of the roads basically, and let's you quickly know your alternate routes. It has a compass usually so North-South-East-West is relatively simple.

      No matter what, always trust yourself... but as said in the past by an American president, "Trust, but verify".

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  45. Tools by wye43 · · Score: 1

    New tools make things easier for us. So we spend less effort on that activity. So that area of brain is not used anymore. So we are atrophying. Thus, its better for us to go back to pre-stone age era. Long live sophism!

    Every single new technology that actually proved useful and had wide-spread usage had this discussion. Nothing to see here, move on.

  46. I drive more slowly. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

    I tend to log GPS data for uploading to OpenStreetMap so I stick very closely to the speed limits, and slow down when I'm negotiating complex twisty side streets so I get better resolution.

  47. Bike rides by Jaro · · Score: 1

    I really enjoy just riding into the sun with my bike (as in bicycle) without any real direction, checking out new routes I've not tried before. Thanks to GPS I know I can always find my way back. So in a way it makes me stupid (I don't have to remember the way I came from), it makes me lazy (not planning routes ahead) but it also makes me more adventurous taking me where my bike has not taken me before, discovering new places.

  48. My experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some years ago, I moved to a big city, used to live in a small village beforehand, so GPS wasn't much use anyway. In the beginning, I was heavily relying on GPS systems to get me where I wanted inside the city, and in the end what happened was that there were some "islands" in the city that I knew pretty well: The immediate vincinity of my flat, the area around my workplace, or where my regular bars were located. However, everything in between was a big black hole, and if you had asked me how to get from one island to the next, I'd have shrugged and pointed at the navigation system (or I had just used the subway).

    Then, big shock, I decided to buy a motorbike. From one day to the next, no GPS anymore, since navigation systems for bikes are horribly expensive, and the phone is just impractical since you need to stop, take of the gloves, get the phone, etc... So I actually had to memorize where I wanted to go beforehand. I was lost more than once, but these days I have a much better understanding of the city I live in, and I even got to see places that I have never seen in my whole car-driving-time. Many times now, I can even skip looking at the map beforehand, simply because I know already how to get where I want. I also noticed, that when you listen to the instructions of the GPS system, I tend to pay less attention to my surroundings. Of course I'd watch the traffic, but I'd hardly see anything beyond that, and that is something that has remarkably changed since I don't rely on it anymore.

  49. Re:Exactly by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    If anything I am now inclined to discover more. With the ability to get birds eye views of places I am visiting I am walking to all sorts of places I would otherwise have not found or not been keen to go.

  50. What's interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is how many people on a site like this confuse GPS with GIS. GPS is just the positioning system that provides you with coordinates based on satellite triangulation. GIS is the mapping system.

    1. Re:What's interesting by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      Or it's the infrastructure for the mapping system, with satellites and all. Or it's the design of the mapping system. We move so easily between all these meanings that nobody notices it. Until that is, someone applies their faulty ideas about what words mean.

  51. I don't need GPS by reboot246 · · Score: 1

    I've been traveling on the job for 35+ years and have a map in my head. I don't 'need' GPS to find my way around, but it's handy to have. It displays my speed more accurately than the speedometer and it gives a fairly accurate time of arrival.

    When I go to another state to work I ask for the opinions of the guys I'm working with to tell me which local places are the best for breakfast and dinner.

  52. Digital Lemmings by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

    GPS has turned the majority of the car drivers around here into digital lemmings. Some would not even recognise their own home without a tin can voice announcing "destination reached".

    --
    Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
  53. Navigation help is not GPS by tinkerton · · Score: 1

    The thing that atrophies your sense of direction the most is the external navigator that does the thinking for you. This navigator can be a person next to you or can be a functionality of your GPS app. It's this external help that does the thinking for you that makes you lose every sense of where you are and where you are going.

    But the fact that GPS shows you at all times where you are on a map, does that hurt? Maybe, but whatever effect that has might be very variable. In any case I'd separate it from the navigation part..

  54. Re:My experience on exploration by Archon-X · · Score: 1

    Nepal was ruined by the locals long before GPS.

  55. I almost don't use it by ctrl-alt-canc · · Score: 2

    I spent about 15 years in the boy-scout movement, and I learned pretty well how to walk in the world using maps, compass, sun and stars for finding my way to home. Furthermore, it is about 35 years I practice mountain hiking and climbing, often alone, and never got into troubles when I had to find my path. This experience has been fruitful also when it comes to driving: it is quite surprising how easy it is to find your road, when you have the ability to think in terms of cardinal points, notable references and you have in your mind a rough image of the territory you are crossing. So I never use a GPS in my daily activities, but I rescued twice people in the mountains who were into deep troubles, because they had neither map nor compass, but only a GPS with all the waypoints loaded in the memory, and a empty battery.
    However I do have a small GPS tracker, and I use it when I go around in the woods picking up mushrooms and truffles: if you combine your findings with coordinates using geostatistics you get very interesting maps. And no, I am not going to publish them on the web!

  56. No kidding by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    On the surface of the Earth, there is no "discovery" if you are talking about finding new lands or something. The whole surface is mapped, with quite a bit of precision. It is all known. The age of discovery, in that sense of the word, is dead.

    Now of course if you want a thrill of personal discovery, you still have that option. You can go exploring any area you like and not use a map, GPS, etc. You can personally enjoy finding out things for yourself, without having looked it up first. You just know that it has in fact been mapped by humans.

    All GPS does is let us know where we are much better than ever before. It is an easy to use tool that makes precise geolocation a reality everywhere except maybe densely forested areas or underground.

    1. Re:No kidding by w_dragon · · Score: 1

      You can also go spelunking. There are probably caves that aren't explored yet.

    2. Re:No kidding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then there's the fact that not everything is on GPS. e.g. Gocta Falls until a few years ago. The Earth's a big place and there's new stuff found all the time. You could be trekking in the Arctic and find a cave system or a fossil preserved in the snow tomorrow, for example.

  57. I have noticed two types of GPS hiker by Chrisq · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Some hikers keep the GPS in their backpack as a backup, look at the tracks and paths on a map, and as the parent poster says look at the contours and lie of the land. They will probably look at the map once or twice per mile in open country. If they intended to walk along the top edge of a wood, but find they reach it at a path entering the middle, a quick check of the map and on they go - they can join their original track at the other side. Often their GPS will show coordinates only, and will be used in an emergency referencing against a paper map.

    Other hikers have a GPS with a detailed walking map added. They will look at this every few hunderd yards. You will sometimes see them backtrack 20 yards after a fork in a path and take the other one, rather than angling across country to join it. If they expected to walk along the top edge of a wood and reach it at a path entering the middle they would probably bactrack or find a marked path round the edge. Entering woods can bring you into dangerous territory where you lose the signal. If their GPS failed or ran out of charge they would probably be on their mobile calling rescue services. If they didn't get a signal they would not want to head for higher land if it meant leaving the track.

    To me the second type doesn't sound fun and is a liability to themselves and the rescue services.

    1. Re:I have noticed two types of GPS hiker by jonamous++ · · Score: 2

      We get the same thing in aviation. You have the folks that regularly use pilotage (visual landmarks checked against a sectional map) and dead reckoning (course calculation, etc) who have a GPS there just for situational awareness (e.g., ensure that they don't wander into a Class Bravo or Class Charlie airspace without permission).

      Then you have the guys who have no idea what a VOR is for and probably couldn't find where they were using a sectional, and they just use the "Direct To" button on their GPS to get to where they are going.

      Everyone has to learn method 1 to get their ticket, but not everyone keeps current with it and people end up forgetting/being out of pratice/getting lazy and using #2. I would feel very nervous relying entirely on a GPS for aviation navigation.

    2. Re:I have noticed two types of GPS hiker by w_dragon · · Score: 1

      I left aviation a few years ago, so I don't know if something has changed, but the FAA was planning on switching navigation to a pure-GPS system because the maintenance on the waypoint towers was too expensive. They had already implemented the new system on flights above FL 410. Essentially they created a virtual waypoint every so many lat and long and you had to hit at least 1 waypoint over each state you were crossing over (IIRC). It allowed them to get rid of the radio towers and still have a system where they could ensure flightpaths wouldn't get over crowded, but there was a lot of argument over removing one of the current backup systems for navigation. The plan was to drop the ceiling on using it every so often so each year more flights would move over, but I don't know what the status is now.

    3. Re:I have noticed two types of GPS hiker by maxume · · Score: 1

      Part of this is that people do not grow up in or spend much time in open country.

      In southern Michigan, a 'remote' area might be 1/2 mile from a decent size road. People still get lost, but they generally have a pretty damn high damn-fool quotient (or they are simply someone that needs supervision and the supervision fails).

      If you go up one notch, to areas where the nearest road might be a few miles, you still have to be a pretty big fool to wander out there without some sort of plan for wandering back (and then a compass should be plenty, even without much training).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:I have noticed two types of GPS hiker by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      You will sometimes see them backtrack 20 yards after a fork in a path and take the other one, rather than angling across country to join it.

      Uh, wait. That's because that's what courteous people to do avoid creating new paths, because foot paths are damage. Your argument against GPS users is that they are doing what is in many cases required by law? Try another.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:I have noticed two types of GPS hiker by jonamous++ · · Score: 1

      We're still using VORs and, to a limited extent, NDBs. I'm not sure about other flight schools, but I had to learn VORs and that's what they want you to demonstrate on the test. :) A lot of instrument approaches still use VORs, too.

    6. Re:I have noticed two types of GPS hiker by fremsley471 · · Score: 1

      Astonishingly, and I'm afraid I've lost the citation, the furthest you can get from a road (not necessarily metalled) in the lower 48 is 35 miles. It's a point in Yellowstone NP. No idea outside of NPs what the furthest you can stumble without hitting 'civilization', assume it's much lower.

  58. Re:Discovery is easier when it's harder to get los by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1

    This is not a bad point, and I can sort of relate to what you mean. But still, I find that truly being lost is itself the best discovery tool. You really start paying attention to details when you have that "holy shit, how do I get home from here?" feeling. I've often said to friends that mine is the last generation of humans that will know what it feels like to be lost. That might sound like a good thing, but the human brain has lots of gears in it that are designed for dealing with being lost. I think it's a bit of a shame that we're going to stop using this capacity that we have.

  59. Re:Durr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We do.

  60. The human brain & mind is quite powerful, flex by Qbertino · · Score: 2

    Was navigating a car from the backseat, back from a night out. It's a town I don't live in and we often use a 'Navi' (german layman term equivalent of 'GPS' in the U.S.). However, the Navi was packed away, since I knew the way from the venue to where we were going. But I was chatting with the lady next to me and we missed a turn. It's been ages since, but I instantly went into 'landmark, neighbourhood and general direction' mode and we got to the destiny with barely any delay. And that was across a river, with another river nearby and on the other side of town.

    I'd say navigating without artificial assistance is a skill like bicycle riding. Once learned you won't forget it. It's a also a lot about taking calculated risks. And I do remember turning pages in huge road atlases, cursing every time about how tedious the task of connecting one double-page to an adjacent is, and thinking up better methods. Alas, back then we did know the concepts, didn't we? But the technology just wasn't there or cheap enough. I figure you could build a decent Navi on my DOS Pocket PC from the early 90ies - only they weren't widespread enough for it to be feasable. Mercedes Benz had only started working on digital roadmaps, smaller flywheel compases and stuff a few years earlyer.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  61. my gps doesn't work... by Nyder · · Score: 1

    ... in my mom's basement. And of course I'm way too fat to leave...

    --
    Be seeing you...
  62. GPS changed us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, GPS changed us. Many GPS-equipped peoples assume that you have GPS too and do not give extra instructions when they give you an address.

  63. Where are those good old paper maps?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For me, the main problem with GPS is that paper maps are slowly disappearing. At least, in Eastern Europe. In 4-5 years, I'll have to buy GPS navigator even without real need only because paper maps are not sold anymore.

  64. Changes for our children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Barring large scale failure and poor terrain, our children will be the first generation of children who will grow up not knowing what it is to be lost.

    I think that where the change will be the most obvious will be how the next generation will relate to this service compared to us. We have had to get used to this technology whereas our kids will be growing up not knowing anything other than ubiquitous GPS and wireless networks etc etc.

    Interesting times.

  65. Spreading Congestion by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 1

    It used to be that, with a map, I could find little-used alternative routes around highway congestion. Some of those routes are themselves now becoming congested, and I suspect much of the extra traffic is GPS-directed.

  66. I disagree totally with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I did not know or care about much of the areas around me ( adjacent towns etc.)when I moved to central FL. for the past 20 years, since I have been using GPS for about a year and a half in my work I have a much better understanding of my surroundings and can get to areas I have been before without the GPS with ease. It is a tool, just like a regular map or even google maps. I really don't understand how having more knowledge and intel about something could cause you to have less wisdom about that given subject? It really doesn't make and sense?

  67. Safety net by dmacleod808 · · Score: 1

    I purposely get myself lost and explore. Just use the gps to get me back

    --
    There Can Be Only One...
  68. Love it by CODiNE · · Score: 1

    I've got Aspergers and it always used to stress me out anytime I had to travel. Even if I knew exactly where I was going, still the potential of making a wrong turn or having my route blocked would make me dread going places.

    Now with my GPS I can travel with a smile. Even if I've been a certain way 100 times just having it with me completely eases my mind and let's me focus on other things. I totally recommend getting a GPS to anyone with travel anxiety or any type of panic attacks.

    Also strangely by joining OpenStreetMap I'm motivated to explore my environment to find new places not yet mapped, I can honestly say I've seen just about every street in my town now compared to in the past when I'd always take the exact same routes.

    GPS really improved my quality of life.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  69. makes us lazy and easy to find? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    I never used it. I've always been able to get into my car and drive in any pointless direction then find my way back. The family used to do that all the time when I was a kid. I'm sure sending a repeating ping to satellites would make life a lot easier for people wanting to know where you are if need be.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    1. Re:makes us lazy and easy to find? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GPS sends nothing to the satellite. All it does is listen to the satellite.

    2. Re:makes us lazy and easy to find? by maxume · · Score: 1

      GPS itself is a one way technology.

      Some devices that receive GPS signals also talk to cellular systems, which is bidirectional.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  70. Tools make life easy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GPS is only as smart as it's operator. You also get what you pay for. My second unit, a $100 refurbished TT 720 kicks ass with real time traffic that's subscription free using clear channel FM found in most metropolises. If I override a navigation decision it doesn't harp, it recalculates the route given present location. This unit makes my first look like a hammer and screw.

    GPS saves me time and gas. If i want to ramble I'll turn it off, smoke a doob and flow.

  71. Interpretation of anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You were probably stupid before the general adoption of GPS technology.

    1. Re:Interpretation of anecdote by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Judging by the fact that he and his friend just got out of Target, and were aiming for Staples shortly after, I'm accustomed to believe they're within the early 20's bracket and probably don't remember life without GPS.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  72. How it's _really_ making us stupider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The big impact I have seen from GPS proliferation, is people conflating tech that tells you where you are, with mapping (and mapping databases and routing algorithms). It is pretty shocking to hear people say, "My GPS [gave me bad advice]" and others around them accept this as a normal statement, whereas ten years ago the speaker's confusion would have just gotten them smirks, even from non-techie laymen.

    So in that respect (ignoring issues of reliance on tech itself), GPS really does seem to be making us dumber.

  73. Re:How will we discover? Shirley? YOU JEST! by Chas · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure I'm GOING to get marked as a troll, but I found it ODD that you used caps a lot to emphasize your sentences. Do you realize how MUCH you actually do this?

    Quite aware. HOWEVER, I do it in lieu of using HTML formatting, which can vary dramatically in appearance from browser to browser and by user preference.

    Using caps for emphasis, I side-step this issue.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  74. The good old days by Kupfernigk · · Score: 1
    Before GPS, I had to work with a salesman who would only travel on motorways because he was a crappy map reader (he once sent us the wrong way in Germany because, and I am not lying, he had the map upside down and forgot the Sun rises in the East).

    Once in Switzerland he seriously proposed a route that was 3 sides of a square because the fourth side was the (very) scenic route. I overruled him and took the fourth side, while he complained for the next hour and a half that we would be "late", right till we got to the airport nearly two hours early.

    GPS was made for people like him, though I wonder if he has looked for one with an "avoid mountain passes" option.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  75. No downside for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a touring cyclist having a gps has been a godsend. I plot my routes ahead of time with some Google map based software like Ride With GPS, then download the route as a track into my gps. Keeping on route is as simple as following the line on the gps. If I want to go off route, the gps gives me the data to do it. No more trying to memorize cues, stopping to check turns, or fumbling with maps that were either too large for any detail or too detailed to get the big picture. I do keep some sort of paper map and magnetic compass along just in case of gps failure. The gps occassionally directs me to non existant roads but that is an issue with maps in general.
      My navigational skills are better for the gps, even with gps off, as I actually see and learn where I am in reference to various landmarks. Similarly, the advent of Google to how Google maps allow me to fget my head around unfamiliar places. While planning for a cycle tour of the UK in 2006 I had spent months studying Ordinance Survey and Sustrans maps with minimal success in getting the big picture. Then Google came out with their easily scrollable, zoom in zoom out well annotated features. Six hours of playing with it gave me a firm grasp of UK geography.
    In short, with a gps I for the first time turely know where I am. Folks who blindly follow gps instructions probably had no clue to begin with.

  76. GPS: Good for directions, great safety net by Shane112358 · · Score: 1

    Others have touched on this here, but to be more to the point: GPS is a good (although sometimes overly-relied on) tool for navigating from Point A to Point B. What I find it most useful for, however, is allowing me the freedom to drive, hike, or bike way off the beaten path to the point of getting lost, only to ask GPS how to get back home if and when I do get lost. For me, especially in the city scenario, GPS actually enables me learning the city faster and with a larger working area than without it simply because I'm no longer concerned about getting "lost".

  77. I put on my robe and tinfoil hat by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    [eyeswivel] That's what they want you to believe. [eyeswivel]

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  78. GPS changed my name... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For awhile, I was known by my GPS coordinates. It made social networking impossible because my name changed every time I moved, so subsequently, I decided to translate my name to a galactic coordinate set. Now I shave my name with 7 billion others, and I am part of a larger collective. Since my resistance to universal truths diminished to zero, this completely changed my perspective my priorities. I was immediately aware that I shared a common set of concerns with all my brethren and cistern. I no longer purchase anything that isn't 100% recyclable, and all my investments are in socially responsible companies led by executives that belong to the Unitarian Universalist Church.

    I am currently on a pilgrimage to the University of Manchester, the alma mater of James Lovelock. Where I will offer my soul to Gaia and transmogrify into a beautiful butterfly. Then I will show up and Woody Allen's stoop and demand 90% of my success, on the spot. Unless I take a wrong turn and end up in a lake or stranded in Death Valley because I listened to the monotonous voice emanating from this @#%^ contraption on my dashboard.

    Did I mention that I'm texting this on my SmartPhone?

  79. Re:How will we discover? Shirley? YOU JEST! by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

    One day the GP will get used to emphasis by upper case characters... the way things have been since the beginning of the Internet.

    --
    -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  80. Re:My experience on exploration by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

    So suddenly a mapping and coordinate technology is responsible for litter?
    That would have nothing to do with the person going there would it?

    You sound like a person living near Yosemite when the park opened.

    --
    -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  81. Identity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Much ado about nothing. The internet only decides things for people who have shut off their brain. If you want to tackle that, it's a completely different issue, but go right ahead because I'm sure those people are missing out on a lot more than town X's identity.

  82. Never Lost by brtech · · Score: 1

    Your kids/grandkids/greatgrandkids (as appropriate) will not know what it feels like to be lost. Think about that. The notion of being lost is a universal human feeling not quite like any other feeling. We've all been lost, regardless of our navigation skills. The next generation won't ever be lost. They won't experience that feeling. They may be in unfamiliar territory, but they will know where they are.

    1. Re:Never Lost by neminem · · Score: 1

      Until, you know, their gps runs out of battery, or they can't get a signal, or someone breaks into their car and jacks it... I have a gps, but I only turn it on in case of emergency (I took a wrong turn and can't figure out how to get back). I'm well aware I'm not normal for that these days, though.