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Pricing: Apple Defies Australian Government
daria42 writes "This week it was revealed that Apple has still not responded to Australia's Federal Parliament on the issue of why the prices of its products are significantly higher in Australia than they are in the US, five months after the query was first raised by a member of parliament from Australia's governing Labor party. Apple has refused to issue a statement on the matter or even acknowledge the issue. What will it take to get Apple to open up — a national enquiry?"
because it can
A competitor.
Refuse sale and seize all their products under government jurisdiction until they answer. I'm sure that would get their attention.
The sad part is this does not only apply to apple, most US resellers have huge price gouging in Australia specially when it comes to video games.
Because even the inflated prices are still cheaper than buying from a foreign country and having it shipped?
And Apple very cleverly takes advantage of that fact?
Wouldn't you raise the price of your products if you had to sell each and every one of them with a Velcro pad to hang upside down?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
I will be very sadden to see a national inquirer in to this pass vs say..... Scientology, which didnt. The Australian public (those who i am friends with at least) are still blinded mostly by marketing from apple and see it as a trendy thing.
It costs Apple extra money to prepare products for the Australian market by turning everything umop apisdn.
Apparantly they are keen to talk now.
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Why attack Apple for pricing products so they make the same profit in every market per person? There's no reason why a $39,000 Nissan 350Z (I had a 2008GT) should cost $67,000 AUD. Everything costs more over here. This is made worse now that the USD is less valuable then the AUD.
I'd say the Australian government should be going after the automotive industry and many others to lower their prices and cost of living substantially. It doesn't cost that much to put a car on a boat and ship it. Japan to the US? (Low US price). Japan to Australia (shorter distance) (price almost double US model)
Normally I'd agree. If people don't like the price being set by Apple they should shop elsewhere. For hardware this does have limitations however as certain sectors 'require' apple products and as such you have to pay an unfair price. If your then running a business out of Australia this makes you less able to compete in a free market.
The simple solution should be to allow purchases of products anywhere in the world at a common price and then you pay the shipping.
The problem with that solution is warranty returns/service.
HOWEVER what mainly started the inquest into the price difference wasn't actually hardware it was itunes and the price of music.
It's not just apple that have significantly higher prices in Australia. I would love to buy an Alienware M17x laptop.
Price in AUD $2499 (inc GST) = $2250 ex GST. Price in the US $1499. Given that the exchange rate is about 1 AUD = 0.97 US the comparison is ridiculous.
The cost difference is about $800, I can fly from Sydney to LA for about a thousand.
It's not just technology either - A Triumph Thunderbird Storm motorbike would be in my garage now if I could get one at a comparable US price. The US one is about ~$15,000, the AUS one ~$22,000.
Levi 501 Jeans, US ~$40, AUD ~$100.
Australians are paying through the nose for most goods. I don't understand why - it can't be more expensive to ship China -> AUS than China -> US.
Oh, hey, yeah.
And while we are at it, lets revoke the licenses for the noise filter tech used in 802.11n (owned by CSIRO, a federally funded research outfit) while we are at it, well, okay, we will revoke it only from apple.
...
I think there may be the odd patent covering the iPad, and so I don't think things are really that simple.
That said, if companies were free to produce similar products I would agree with you entirely.
In the UK, a huge price difference can be explained by 20% VAT added to the price, and cost of better consumer laws. Australia seems to have 10% sales tax and someone who knows might comment on consumer protection.
And if one product is too expensive, people are free to buy from competitors.
From an article linked higher up in these comments:
Ed Husic, the member for Chifley, called out Apple in parliament this week and demanded a broader inquiry by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission into rampant price discrimination by technology companies in Australia.
Video games are regularly 60 per cent more expensive in Australia, while we also pay hundreds of dollars more for laptops and in some cases almost double what Americans pay for software from companies like Adobe and Microsoft.
#DeleteChrome
If Australians think Apple's are too expensive, then just buy something else. It's not like Australians are living in a penal colony or anything.
Do Apple products go through the US to go to Australia, or are they shipped directly from Hon Hai in Shenzen, where they're made?
It seems that Apple usually prices in the local consumer protection laws when pricing their models abroad. For instance, the US, Japan, and Hong Kong dont have any forced warranties of sorts, and all those prices are, when taking taxes and whatnot into account, about the same. However, in places like Europe and Australia where the government pretty much forces companies to provide multi-year warranties with their products companies have to price that into their products. Those laws are nice, but stop pretending they are free. Personally I would rather have the option of either buying the warranty OR taking a chance on my product not breaking(the vast, vast majority of them dont) instead of the government essentially forcing me to buy an extended warranty whether I want it or not. But of course maybe that is just me.
Monstar L
charge what the market can bear.... jesus if people stop buying, they will lower the price.. if not, gouge what you can.
SIMPLE
Price gouging in Canada is not as bad as our southern friends, since it is a short drive to the USA border, but is still significant. My favourite gouge are recently printed books and magazines that show both the American and Canadian prices, with the Canadian prices 25-40% higher in dollar values, even through the Canadian dollar has been worth more than an American dollar for some time.
It is justified, because Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have "small" markets, so they have to charge a premium for distribution, advertising, etc. (It's not true, but that is their excuse.)
Lets talk about the racism on the Internet - unless you are a Yank, you cannot view even half the content that is advertised.
The number of times I have been referred to a US site from an Australian partner site only to be presented with a page stating that the content I am trying to view is not available in my country.
You want to solve piracy, then think globally. The US of A is not the center of the universe, and the sooner you dumb Yanks realise that the sooner people will start to cooperate with you.
How do they explain the price difference? It should be cheaper here anyhow, our dollar is worth more than the US and we are geographically closer to the Chinese factories.
Uh apple are not a standard, they are under no obligation to play fair. If your citizens are willing to buy at that price then that is the price apple will sell for.
You mean like the Galaxy Tab 10.1? It's barred from import into Australia due to Apple successfully winning an injunction against it due to patent disputes.
iPad 2 (16gb, wifi only) is $499 before taxes in USA and it Rs. 29500 ($650 before taxes) in India.
One can return the item if disliked in USA, maybe with a restocking fee. One can not return in India.
we should probably just cancel that free trade agreement then, seeings though it appears worthless.
>>You mean like the Galaxy Tab 10.1? It's barred from import into Australia due to Apple successfully winning an injunction against it due to patent disputes.
And you say iPad prices went up, too??
Man, that's a weird coincidence.
so apple is fine to make blacks pay extra too then? because apple can set a price at whatever they like right?
The thing about Apple products is that you pay more, but you get a more expensive toy. If they made them cheaper, people wouldn't feel as superior, and might actually start comparing features, build quality, compatibility, extensibility, originality, and so on. As long as Apple distinguishes itself from the competition based on price, iDiots who buy their products can rest secure in the knowledge that they have a much more expensive device than their neighbour. Apple understands this very well.
Is Australia not a free market? If people are willing to pay the premium price, then Apple has priced appropriately!
Lots of Australian Whining. Why don't you guys try making your own shit domestically? Or buy items abroad and import them?
Oh, it's a pain and expensive to import stuff? No kidding.
Certainly not TFA. My beef is with the iTunes store - to buy an album here costs AU$17.00 (US$17.63), a huge hike over the $10 price the US enjoys.
If I wanted an iPad, I could always import one from the US, but I can't buy an album from the US iTunes store; they refuse to sell it to me, which is a restriction of trade under Australian law, and something the ACCC has ruled is illegal, at least when applied to physical music media like CDs.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
I'm no fan of Apple, but what business is it of the governments what price I put on my goods. If people don't like my price, they're free to buy someone else's.
I kind of wonder if the Aussie government is putting a tax on Apples goods and expects Apple to just absorb the extra cost and keep the price the same.
Note that "industry standard" Velcro doesn't stick as well with Macs. You want go get the special Mac-compatible Velcro that you can buy from the Apple Store. Sure it costs a bit more, but you're protecting your investment. (Well at least that's what the guy told me when I bought mine.)
Sure, they should be free to set their own prices, but should not expect to be free to block competitors from competing.
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/11/08/01/2345249/Apple-Blocks-Sale-of-Galaxy-Tab-101-In-Australia
certain sectors 'require' apple products and as such you have to pay an unfair price. If your then running a business out of Australia this makes you less able to compete in a free market.
I understand being very annoyed at paying a higher price but are you really less able to compete? I would expect the incremental amount being paid is trivial compared to other costs such as labor.
It's called price discrimination. It means people who have more elasticity of demand pay a lower price than people who have less elasticity.
This is how cars are priced differently through the negotiation process, why people pay different amounts for airline tickets, and until the recent advent of mass pricing, almost every transaction in the marketplace was a haggle.
Price discrimination helps to maximize seller's surplus, thus making it profitable to serve those with more elastic demand with lower prices. This is especially true of pharmaceuticals that are very expensive in rich countries and cheaper in poor countries. Without price discrimination, they may only be profitable in rich countries at a single price.
I'm not a racist, but in a normal (not obsessed with PC) society that would be acceptable. Just like those discos where girls get in free, while guys have to pay.
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If they're from Australia, then yes.
They must make up for all the money they spent bribing the officials. Or did you expect them to pay for bribes out of their own pocket?
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The Mac-compatible Velcro is better because It Just Works!(TM)
No, Apple can't pick their prices as they want to.
If the Australians decides that Apple has to give away the iPad for free then Apple can choose between giving it away for free, closing the store and go home or breaking the law.
If Apple wants to play in Australia they will have to play by the rules dictated to them.
You might not like how things work but if the alternative is that greedy companies dictates the rules instead of corrupt governments then I take the corrupt governments any day of the week.
Looking at europe prices are roughly 25% above the US prices.
However I did not check recently as currency fluctuations may change this difference significantly.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
For blacks? that would be unacceptable. For aussies tho...
Nops.
But they can charge extra for Africa - no matter how people is coloured there. =/
If what comes out of this is an investigation by the ACCC then I will be very glad, as Apple and many other companies actively conspire to try to force you to buy from your regions store, rather than the store that has the best price.
Like EAs new Origin store, it forces its localisation on you for your market. I had to Google Cache up the US store just to try and find out what was happening with Star Wars: The Old Republic. Bypassing the localisation added another 5 seconds to my browsing time, not cool.
And you say iPad prices went up, too??
No, they were always high. Now there's just no incentive for them to come down.
I was under the impression that quite a few products sold in Australia are more expensive than in America(Games, for example).
Is this not true?
This.
... wait, what?
The cost of everything is higher in Australia. Locally grown food costs more in Australia then it does in the US. The US government per diem is 2.5x higher in Sydney than New York City. This is not because the US government wants everyone to have more fun in Sydney.
How can they be so out of touch. It costs more to do everything because the cost of living is higher. Learn something about your own economy. Why should Apple be required to explain Australian economics to parliment. It is funny when Internet co mentors make these senseless claims. It is just scary when officials that should know better do it.
It's a land of convicts - Apple's probably having to beef up the prices to pay for the 20% that go missing before they land..
Import duties are higher, VAT is added, currency fluctuations are accounted for by adding a preload cost adder, because they never make less than what they want, but sometimes have extra profit, and because they need to set up a foreign corporation to deal with Australian legal formalities and consumer laws. Not to mention a foreign organization to service all the products. The fact that it isn't double the US price means the US folks are already subsidizing the Oz purchases by giving a higher unit profit per device than Australians are providing to Apple. And Apple has more 3rd party folks who have to be able to purchase the products and make a profit selling at close to Apple's list price. As to Geography it behooves Apple to make the case that even if assembled in China they are US goods, to maintain WTO and most favored trading partner status. Remember that the hardware manufacturing cost is only 25% of the equation all the intellectual property, software, etc. originated elsewhere. Quite frankly the Microwave oven I want to buy if I head over to Europe is "made" in Australia and they charge more for it online in Oz that I can walk in an buy it in a shop in England, discounting the VAT I'll get refunded when I reexport it out of the EU. I the paperwork is less bother. So even your own countrymen charge you guys more than they charge others. Want the same price as the US, then buy as many of each product as the US does. We just get a quantity discount.
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
The elasticity of demand curve for Apple products peaks at a higher point in Australia than in the U.S. This is how all prices are set. Charge more and you lose enough sales to lose money; charge less and demand doesn't increase proportionally. Maybe remedial economy 101 for the labor party would also help them understand why there aren't any large, successful technology companies in Australia.
If you pay in US$, they want $189.00
Currently AU$1.00 buys US$1.03 according to the TV, making that approximately AU$183.00
Click on the pull down option on th VMware store to convert the pricing to AU$, it becomes AU$277.00 - a markup of AU$94.00 or approximately 50%.
I've rung and asked them why the difference - and got some bulls**t about there being annual price adjustments based on the current currency conversion. The only problem is the last time that AU$ was low enough for that was back in the 1980's.
US companies regularly rip off Australians.
Defiance strikes me as being relatively active. This seems very passive. I think "Ignores" would be a better description. Defiance also conjures up images of insubordination, which would imply that a single member of the Australian Parliament is Apple's superior. Again, I'm not sure it fits. [That's not a dig on Parliament, just how I see things. It's not like they're blowing off a direct subpoena from a governing body to which they submit.]
In fact, the more I think about it, the more it sounds like some politician trying to get a story going due to a fragile ego.
The title of the story is inflammatory as this MP is NOT the Australian Government. Apple was justified in not responding. A member of Parliament has no standing to ask such a question with the expectation of receiving an answer.
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
...and just buy a chinese ripoff... http://kotaku.com/5549865/china-rips-off-the-ipad-with-the-iped ... just goes to show how much patents are truly worth
wow you're delusional. Apple can set the prices to whatever they want. It's their product and if you don't like it - you can cram it.
You mean like the Galaxy Tab 10.1? It's barred from import into Australia due to Apple successfully winning an injunction against it due to patent disputes.
Until the 1st of September. The hearing is on the 29th of August and Samsung feels so confident of wining they've announced the release for the following Thursday (late night shopping day in Oz). Realistically with the standard of evidence Apple have been presenting, Samsung couldn't win easier if they were represented by Charlie Sheen on Winning Juice.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I believe you are the one who is delusional. Apple has to obey any and all regulations for the countries they operate in. If Australia demands they put their prices more in line with countries like the US, they are obligated to oblige or leave.
Why are prices higher in Australia than the United States? Because it's a very small market. The entire population of Australia (22.5 million) is only somewhat more than the population of the York York City metro area (19 million). Plus extra shipping and handling costs. It's the same problem that we have here in Canada. Despite being right next door we frequently pay somewhat more for products than they do in the USA.
You'll get your knees busted.
Looking at europe prices are roughly 25% above the US prices.
A fair chunk of that is probably due to different rules on where to put sales taxes on the bill (i.e., are they applied before the price quoted to you or after). You've got to compare what people are actually charged when they do a full purchase, not what price is advertised. Cross-jurisdiction comparisons are difficult.
So only a 5–10% gouge. (Hard to say how much of that is due to currency handling issues. Probably not as much as all that; bigger volumes let you get better prices for that sort of thing.)
"Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
...Australia has treaty obligations, most notably with the WTO, and taxes and forcible price settings are probably against one of the trade rules Australia agreed to. Forcing a set price can probably be interpreted as a form of tariff setting and may be interpreted as a breach of Free Trade rules by some clever shark^H^H^H^H^H lawyer
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I understand that governments like to strike a pose, but how can they argue that Apple's prices must be lower in Australia, it's not like Apple has a monopoly on all devices, phones, smart pads, etc. Apple has a monopoly on 'cool' (and that's the best monopoly to have, because I believe they can sell turds and ice to penguins if they style the stuff and slap their logo on it, and there will be line ups for the stuff), but having a monopoly on 'cool' is not the same as having monopoly on a product and even if you break the company apart by a silly government legislation, it's not like 'cool' will all of a sudden be picked up by the competitors.
As to having prices in USA being lower than in the rest of the world - well that's not a surprise, nor should it be. USA as a nation mainly exports inflation, but it's exactly that - an export. As long as the inflation is exported outside of the country the prices will not rise much at all inside USA but they are rising outside with all that newly printed money that is printed by foreign central banks to buy all of those US dollars. Eventually this will stop and prices in Australia and elsewhere will fall, because Apple won't be able to sell to anybody in USA, as almost nobody in USA can actually buy their stuff legitimately, because there is almost no production in USA and trade is not about exchanging funny money for products, it's about exchanging products for products.
You can't handle the truth.
Apple are free to pick their prices.
Only if we're free to buy their product wherever we like.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
And really they don't seem that high anyway, in comparison.
Apple store US price for basic iPad2 499
Apple store AU price for basic iPad2 579
Considering that there's GST of 10% in there and the currencies are at rough parity (AU slightly higher) it's not that much.
Compared to every other damned thing for sale in Australia, that's not much of a markup. If the government want to get upset over something they should look at why it costs double the US price for imported cars!
no, cause then my (white guy's) taxes will be increased to match their welfare "needs" (demands)
It is quite simple, all that is needed is to legalise ''grey imports'', ie goods that are bought in another country and imported. Many companies want to protect their price differential and so refuse to service kit that was not bought in the country - so that is the second part: they must be forced to service goods no matter where they were bought.
What pisses me off about this is that large companies use the difference in prices to their advantage, ie have stuff made in the part of the world where it is cheaper. They then work hard to prevent consumers doing the same thing, ie: buy stuff from where it is cheap. So competition works for companies not the consumer. You have similar things going on with lots of other things, eg clothing. I would be quite happy to pay higher prices for stuff that I buy in the UK if those items were made in the UK (ie labour paid at UK rates).
Globalisation has to be for everyone, not just large companies.
Maybe next they can talk to Steam / Activision about why a $100usd Activision game on steam suddenly drops to $60usd when I bring up the VPN to the California office.
A lot of my friends went to Australia for working holidays, where fruit picking was the only available job to foreigners.
This had clearly led to some confusion among native Australians about which apples grow on trees, and which don't.
Seriously Australia, sort yer shit out. You need to fix up your government that has wacky immigration laws, wacky import laws, and down right idiotic age-classifications for games etc.
Oh, and try to stop them from filtering all your internet.
A special bonza rate of tax for the little Bruces in California. Strewth!
Thats due to VAT tacked onto the price.
Won't help, under the "free trade" agreement beef exports to the USA are illegal until at least 2020.
On a more serious note it's an incredibly stupid and one sided agreement that was produced by putting up a raw deal and a time limit to take it or leave it. For almost no gain we get a pile of stupid copyright and patent restrictions forced on us and what little there is in the US side of the deal isn't being followed. The free trade agreement was sold as the reward Australia was going to get for giving the USA military support in Iraq and Afganistan.
A large part of what they are selling is intellectual property. Without the consent of the government of Australia the IP component would be close to free, no? Since their profit depends on regulation enforced by the Australian government, they should expect to be regulated in other ways too. Or at least engage in dialog.
Having said that, this guy is just an MP. With no more standing than any number of nutcase congressmen in the US. If corporations had to respond to every last wild accusation from them there would be no time left for anything else.
Possibly if Australian enforces a complete ban of Apple's products in their country, maybe then Apple will acknowledge the question. It would take a lot more than even that to get an honest answer to it.
Wouldn't you raise the price of your products if you had to sell each and every one of them with a Velcro pad to hang upside down?
Nice one, fucking yank. Just like all your compatriots trying to get jobs down here ? Nice on dickhead.
If you think ii'm going to stop gouging Australians, then you're holding it the wrong way.
Steve
Sent from my iPhone
Uh apple are not a standard, they are under no obligation to play fair. If your citizens are willing to buy at that price then that is the price apple will sell for.
Those are the norms for the market. Markets however operate under the laws of nations. As in "sovereign nations." Which pass any laws they please. Apple would be wise to take the issue seriously. If the Australian government simply negatively influences it's people on the fairness of Apple business practices, sales fall. That's without even passing any laws. In fact if the nation wanted to modify their IP laws and produce Apple clone products with an Apple brand and declare it legal, it could. Apple could only complain to the WTO or something.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
Terrible analogy.
In the example of a club where young women get in free or get free drinks, they are not actually getting something entirely free that the men are paying for. They are providing a service in exchange for entry and/or drinks instead of handing over cash. The service? Attracting men to the club who the club hope will spend silly amount of money to compete with each other to try impress the girls.
I can see some people being offended by it (showing off your body in exchange for the value of an entrance fee could be quite devaluing if you think of it more as "here's a fiver, now jiggle your tits on the dance floor") but it is certainly not the same as discriminating between black/white/brown/yellow/green IMO.
Block all sales of Apple hardware in Australia until they provide a reasonable explanation.
Next question.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
You mad bro?
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
No, those are different matters.
There is at least some valid justifications for effective price differentials between nations: currently variations (they'll set their prices less often than currencies grow and fall, so will set prices a little higher to allow for a fall in worth), cultural variations in what currency is worth compared to different items/services (the perceived value of a currency does not always match the global market value, and this perceived value can vary a lot within the same local economy), transport costs including physical transport and import/export fees, differing sales volumes (if you sell less in a given market, fixed costs of operating in that market are more significant), localised tax differences (in VAT and other such seen directly by the customer, and in corporate and employment taxes which are a little more transparent to the man on the street), and so forth.
Of course Apple may be charging significantly more than what they need to to cover these differences. They seem to in the UK by my understanding - a significant part of the difference between what I would (but won't, but that is another discussion) pay for an iProduct here compare to the same product state side is our 20% VAT rate, but even allowing for other tax structure differences, "safety padding" with regard to currency variations, transport and market size costs, and so forth, the cost difference has still always seemed high (then again, it is for most items, particularly electrical, just not quite so much so).
Video games and other software also have these price discrepancies as well in Australia, and I'm sure that's not the only market where this is going on. Why is Apple's case special?
Hell, the concept of pricing things differently across regions isn't some strange or novel concept that's hasn't been tried before. Yeah it's stupid, but ultimately companies will charge what the market will bear.
I'm sure droid os phones are available in Australia. If Apple's pricing pisses you off that much buy one of those instead.
In the example of a club where young women get in free or get free drinks, they are not actually getting something entirely free that the men are paying for. They are providing a service in exchange for entry and/or drinks instead of handing over cash. The service? Attracting men to the club who the club hope will spend silly amount of money to compete with each other to try impress the girls.
This is a slippery slope. It could be argued that white (or black, I don't know which are now more popular in US highschools) people using your products would attract others to it.
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Aren't they used to commissary prices?
It's still a valid analogy. The club is charging a different rate based on the sex of the person. It doesn't matter if the club gets the "compensation" by having women attract men, it's still unfair that women get in free, but yet we tolerate that, so his analogy is still valid.
aussie dollar .70 = apple prices 30-40% higher, I accept that.
aussie dollar goes 40% higher, to 1.10
to maintain same profits, apple can drop prices to = USA prices.
But to gain impressive 30% profit growth through zero extra sales, keep prices same.
Look at their financial reports. Apple makes 60%+ more profits due to out of usa sales when converted to USA dollars.
So on nasdaq sure, it looks like wow apple made 60% increase in profits, shares go sky high.
In reality, no sales changes, infact, usa sales dropped, global sales, static.
Its a funny money exchange effect.
End result, apple 'valuation' goes up by multi billions, all due to zero effort, zero work, no work, utterly no finger lifter, same work as Steven Hawking.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Nah, you need Monster Velcro (tm) It has directional indicators and gold plating.
With all its money, Apple can just become a small country (physical or virtual), seek representation in the UN, train its military, and then defy Australian government
And it's not like apples don't grow on trees. Seriously though, it's not like they are critical lifesaving pieces of tech. Why shouldn't apple be able to set it's prices to whatever they want?
But if you make an etch a sketch today Apple will sue you saying they invented a round bezel.
huh?
This is a slippery slope. It could be argued that white (or black, I don't know which are now more popular in US highschools) people using your products would attract others to it.
I was about to say something similar. In certain areas and certain age groups (okay, under 25 or 30 and north of any southern accent zones), adding [some] attractive black men to your crowd in somewhere like a night club would likely increase the place's profile as a "hot" club, particularly to suburban whites. I think it was a side effect of all the rap music my generation couldn't stop listening to for years, even when it started to get really bad. On average, black guys are cooler than white guys.
And while the race argument actually holds true, places that gave identical pricing to all people would hopefully win a free market scenario. The bad publicity would likely do the rest.
...then again, I'm pretty sure that practice would probably be illegal in the US anyway. Here, even recognizing that someone is anything other than white skinned for the purpose of comparing anything about him or her to someone who is white tends to be completely taboo, particularly among whites. It makes me sad that I can't talk about skin color plainly to most people for any reason at all, even for simple observation, or for simple compliment.
I'm suddenly reminded of this.
Be the first country to be free of their crappy products!
Looks like Apple is giving free publicity to the Tab.
This space for rent.
Apple is free to sell its products here in Australia so long as they abide by any laws and regulations imposed by our government. Just because Americans are generally repulsed by consumer protection doesn't mean the rest of the world feels that way.
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Apple is currently trying to ban Samsung's entire line of capacitive touch tablets and phones in the European Union. Apple has 69% of the tablet market in the EU, and Samsung has 7%. I promise you that making one's own iPad is not, in fact, an option.
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Doesn't Australia have a 10% GST / VAT included in the price. So a $999 Macbook Air in the US (where tax is added later) would be $1099 alone with with this built-in tax. Then shipping costs are higher and operational costs are higher as well but at least 1/3 of the $300 "price difference" can be directly explained by the hiddne sales tax which Apple has to pay the gov't.
Apple still often charges 10-20% more in the UK even after you've taken into account VAT. I realise they have to deal with things like paid leave in the UK but it still seems like a rip-off to me. There ought to be an enquiry into this practice, which is widespread - and businesses ought to put forward suggestions on what policy changes it would take to get prices down.
Why does it take an Apple gadget to bring this discussion up? From what I understand, the prices of motorcycles are also much higher than in the US, taking into account the exchange rate. But somehow the world is so in love with their electronic gadgets that it doesn't take much to get the government involved.
I don't understand the furor. This appears to be a case of market economics. Australia has a population of ~25 million people, while the US has a population of ~300 million. The EU, likewise has a population of about 300 million. Simple economy of scale arguments provide a rational answer: Apple's cost per unit to ship products to the US and the EU is going to be lower than its cost per unit shipping to Australia, and those savings (or burdens depending on which side of the world you are in) get passed onto consumers. Not to mention the infrastructure costs of setting up stores, corporate offices, advertising, and a market presence in country with 1/10 of the population of the US or the EU. Which again will all result in a higher cost basis per unit sold in Australia. Finally, higher tax rates on corporations in Australia, higher employee taxes on business, and other regulatory issues are likely to drive up prices. Let's not forget the dreaded GST which makes the end price for consumers even higher.
Rather than whine about it, Australian MP's may consider what they can do to create a more favorable market for high tech products in Australia by providing tax benefits to offset the higher costs of doing business in a small and over regulated market.
I know in Brazil tarriffs on most imported goods are very high (around 80%). Ideally, it's to preserve Brazilian culture and goods. The funny side effect it has is that imported goods are now a luxury item, so people middle-upper class really covet them and buy them anyway.
A sensible person can usually find a very affordable local alternative. Technology is harder though - if the company doesn't have a manufacturing plant there, then there may be few or no alternatives.
I wonder what the whole story is? Are there no tech goods being produced in Australia? Are there high tarriffs or fees, even on internet downloads? Even with a lack of fees, if the government makes it a huge pain in the ass for you to do business there with paperwork, rules, etc., a business is going to have to find a way to compensate for the P.I.T.A factor.
Its all well and good to say more competition. However with the USPTO asleep at the wheel rubber stamping everything, it might increase competition if we were to allow competitors to use apple wank patents with impunity in this country. That would change things up a bit. Should work for a lot of other areas too - like copyright. Game downloaded should cost the same if not allow piracy. It will never happen - welll maybe once USA defaults and china/india run the world
Flame suit on
Now I am not saying that companies are not to some degree price gouging. But how come whenever this conversation comes up I never hear anyone in Australia asking that their wages be set to the same level as America as well? I am no expert, but from the admittedly small bit of research I have done it seems that your average bus driver in Australia earns significantly more than your average bus driver in America (once converted to the same currency of course). When prices are looked at as a percentage of wage the difference may not be as egregious.
Apple products are selling for exactly what they're worth. If they weren't worth that price, they wouldn't be selling.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Free trade agreements between governments have no legal bearing on what a private company chooses to charge for its products and what private individuals seem willing to pay. Rather the point is to prevent the governments in question from adding import duties all willy-nilly on top of the seller's price point.
Ergo, the presence of a free trade agreement means that an Aussie iPod only costs 50% more than an American one rather than 100% more, and that only Apple gets to laugh themselves all the way to bank instead both Apple and the revenue office.
A free trade agreement can also make it easier for individuals to buy stuff from overseas directly, substituting one middle-man like me for three or four others in the normal retail chain, but that might be pure self-interest talking.
They still make Tab? Haven't had that in ages.
I live in Canada...
Microsoft's products are still using an exchange rate from the mid-2000s. It still killed me that I had to shell out a 2-300 hundred more for Visual Studio. Ugh...
Similarly for books (any kind.) Some publishers still use an old exchange rate even on recent printings.
Who cares what Apple charges? Nobody in Australia has to buy Apple products if they don't like the prices; Apple does not force anybody to buy their products. Why is this even a story?
-> Sometimes, you just gotta break free from the shackles of proprietary code.
Question for the biologist:
How can you be a biologist, and not spend all day just punching anti-evolutionists in the nuts?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
substituting one middle-man like me
Do you do import/export work? I've never heard of a 50-400% markup to pay for container shipping that people are talking about here. Since the market isn't finding an optimal solution, there's bound to be somebody interfering with it.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
It takes more blind faith to believe that the natural world did something impossible than it does to believe the supernatural did it.
People and therefore also their governments are behaving like spoiled kids. There is no human right to get cheap Apple products. There are tons of reasons why the price might be higher, and even if the reason is "just because we can" there is no justification for doing anything about it. Stop whining, stop demanding and get on with living your own life as best you can in cooperation with all who want to cooperate.
certain sectors 'require' apple products
No, there are no sectors that require any product from Apple.
Religion, like law, is a system for controlling people. In general, unlike law, religions explicitly involve a certain group (a prophet or clergy, etc.) reaping benefits from their followers on a regular basis and thus not having to do any work. However, religion has had a very important impact on the history of civilization in that it has kept it from shaking itself apart. While we do not have too many reliable accounts of what life was like in the Roman Empire shortly before Christianity became mainstream, the evidence is that the people of the day were not yet ready to live in an atheistic or agnostic world. To some extent, it appears that there will probably always be a portion of the population that can be made to contribute functionally to society if they believe some old dude on a cloud is judging everything they do. And before you ask, genocide is not a realistic option.
Most biologists are able to ignore anti-evolutionary sentiments because they're far removed from it. This morning, I spent two hours cleaning up raw sequencing data for L. vannamei, a species of shrimp with 88 chromosomes in healthy, normal adults. Although it's never been assembled before, a significant portion of the shrimp's genome (above 4%) appears to be simple repeats of "AGAGAGA..." and "CTCTCTC...". Both the huge chromosome count and the repeats are consequences of the evolutionary process; over time, errors in DNA replication and crossover have caused bulk genetic information to develop. In essence, evolution has been staring me in the face all day. To hear that some hick in Texas wants to pretend it doesn't exist just seems completely irrelevant.
The big reason people don't understand evolution is because they don't understand how biology works—at all. They see how many vertebrae snakes have and how many vertebrae humans have, and can't understand that the difference is that, in humans, the gene that says "make more vertebrae" shuts off faster. They believe there are these fantastical differences between organisms because of exterior qualitative properties, when really it's all the same stuff, just under slightly different circumstances.
When you realise the person with whom you're arguing doesn't even understand the most basic fundamentals of what they're talking about, it becomes infinitely harder to take them seriously. It's like arguing with a three-year-old.
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
I'm Scottish.
[FUCK BETA]
testing
Only if we're free to buy their product wherever we like.
... is there somewhere that people are FORCED to by Apple products?
I'd really like to know what country exists where everyone has so much extra wealth the law requires them to buy Apple products as I'm totally moving there.
I'm pretty sure you're free to not by Apple products in every country on the planet.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
The fact that it just happens to look almost identical has nothing to do with it ... and the fact that you're welcome to still purchase any other table doesn't really have anything to do with it either ... right?
Seriously? Get over the Tab bullshit, its clearly a copy. You can argue wether copies are okay or not, but theres no denying that its a fucking copy. I'm all for banning it just to prevent people from being confused. When my inlaws buy a tab because they think its as good as an iPad, and then come to me when it sucks, I'm going to be pissed at samsung because they are clearly trying to take advantage of people who buy something that looks like an iPad because they don't know any better.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
test2, please I am sorry :)
1. I was replying to someone saying that if we didn't like Apple's pricing scheme, we should make our own clone. Apple has succinctly demonstrated that it will not be tolerated. At no point was I making a statement about the Tab's quality.
2. But further, on the issue of clones: people didn't bitch when PC clones and the Macintosh came onto the scene. Why should this be any different?
3. And about quality: how do you know the Tab sucks? Yes, the Android tablet app ecosystem is still catching up to the iPad's, but the hardware is superior to the iPad 1. Pretty much every negative review about the original 7" Tab related to its smaller size, and a version comparable in size to the iPad is now out.
Please go dump your hatred of playing the family IT goon somewhere else. Your random bitching is giving professional trolls a bad name.
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
Well... Samsung did this... And what did apple do then?
with import duty, GST, comparatively low volume sales, (compared to just about everywhere else in the world) plus provision of local support etc, most of it dictated by Govt controls and taxes, I would expect there to be a price difference, Currently 10% on a Macbook Air, which is the same rate as our GST(ax). Although you have got to take into account the FACT that in the past the A$1 = US$0.70. And I want to buy lots of DeWalt tools at US prices, and I want to PAY the same price for PETROL as they do in the USA, but it ain't gonna happen. OFFS!
There was an unknown error in the submission.
what? they only have, at best, 10% of market share of the PC world. Apple sets a price, you buy it, or you go to the 90% of other people who are able to offer similar product, many would say better products.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
"Husic last night said Australians should not be “fleeced for the sake of Silicon Valley’s bottom line”. “These companies would simply not do this to consumers in their home countries."
Yeah. Everybody in the US waxes on about how reasonable Apple's prices are. *rolleyes*
Apple is fine to make left handed people, people with big noses, people who wear red shirts, and people with crooked teeth pay more for their products. All of these groups have alternatives they can and should give their business to. Many in Australia are apparently willing to pay what Apple is asking. If Australians stopped buying Apple products, it would force Apple to reduce their prices. I say, "Go for it." Vote with your pocket books and Apple will lower their prices.
So the correct response is to complain about Apple's pricing? No.
[FUCK BETA]
Well at least it's not another joke about convicts.
Apple should build its defense around a “swirls the other way” coreolis-strategy. Fewer people in the southern hemisphere.
If Apple price is too high, competitors move in. That is unless Apple has colluded with government to block out competition a la GE. Of course every local market has different market dynamics of supply/demand so insisting the an Apple product should sell for the same price everywhere on the globe adjusted for exchange rate is ridiculous.
The problem with Apple in particular is that they charge nearly double for iTunes content as well.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Every retail good costs nearly twice as much in Australia. It is obvious.
Firstly the minimum casual wage for an adult in most enterprise bargaining agreement is $22/hr
Secondly hours of opening are highly regulated outside the ACT and Victoria.
Thirdly land prices are extremely high in the major cities
Fourthly rent for mall is extremely high even for the high land prices because councils and state government have banned shops outside them.
Fifthly because of the small markets and lack of competition retails haven't worried about this and have just gouged consumers to cover it.
Of now course the internet and increased overseas travel are introducing real price competition. Consumers are sick of being ripped of and given the uncertain economic conditions are refusing to spend so retail businesses are all going bust. Rather than blaming Apple the MP, presumably a Green who hates paying for Apples but can't bring himself to buy an evil Microsoft PC, should look at how they are running the country.
There is a very simple explanation. Because much of the US sales tax system is state based, advertised prices in the states are usually before sales tax. In Australia, because we have a more unified tax system and more consumer-focused consumer law, prices advertised here include GST. It doesn't explain the whole price difference, but it's the biggest component.
Besides, Apple have never engaged in the "race to the bottom" pricing the rest of the PC industry is hell bent on. They've always priced more predictably and put more into R&D and build quality than most companies. (Yes, there are a few notable models I'd except from the term "build quality" but most Apple products are better built than most general PC products.)
I think this is Parliament interfering in the market unnecessarily because of the incessant whining of Apple haters, who are as bad as (or even worse than) blind fanbois. Imagine Parliament asking BMW or Mercedes why they don't sell at Holden prices. Return to your homes, people, nothing to see here.
funny
complain??? where did i complain about apple's prices?? I just stated that when someone else made a similar product apple sued them...